This Ain’t No Polish Joke
Here’s an incomplete list of Poland’s suffering since 1939, cobbled together from memory and the interwebs.
• Invaded by Nazi Germany, in the first blitzkrieg.
• Warsaw was the first major city to endure terror bombing.
• Eastern Poland invaded by Soviet Union, and annexed.
• Katyn Forest Massacre, in which 20,000 officers — “the pride of Polish manhood” — were killed by Stalin’s order. The idea was to ensure Poland could never rise up again.
• 90% of Polish Jewry — more than three million — wiped out in Hitler’s Holocaust.
• Millions deported to Stalin’s GULAG.
• Millions of Poles removed from their lands in the West to make room for German immigrants.
• Germany’s “General Government” in rump Poland was perhaps the most brutal of all occupation governments in Europe.
• Forced labor in Nazi war plants.
• Warsaw Uprising brutally smashed by the Nazis, as the Red Army sat and watched.
• Suppression of Polish culture, including destruction of monuments and libraries.
• Warsaw suffered more damage than any other European city during six years of war.
• Poland served as the home to most of Germany’s most fearsome death camps, including Auschwitz.
• Six million Poles, Catholic and Jewish, killed in the war.
• Poland did not regain its prewar population level until the 1970s.
• After the war, Stalin imposed a brutal Communist regime on the nation, which lasted for 45 years.
Despite all of this, it was two Poles — Lech Walesa and Pope John Paul II — who did more than any other European leaders to lead the moral crusade against Communist oppression in Europe.
So to every Pole in Europe, to any Pole anywhere in the world, these things matter. You cannot use the phrase “Polish death camp” without offending tens of millions of Poles. There were no Polish death camps. The Poles were the ones, by and large, in the Nazi and Soviet death camps. And yet, that’s exactly what the author of “smart diplomacy” said last night, at a ceremony that was supposed to honor WWII Polish underground leader Jan Karski.
And yes, dammit, the remarks were prepared. Teh Won, The Smartest Man Ever to Be Elected President™, read “Polish death camp” directly off his teleprompter.
Obama bends over for Russia (and can’t WAIT to get even more “flexible” for them) but slaps our staunch ally Poland in the face! What’s next for narcissistic moron?
That’s PRESIDENT Narcissistic Moron to ypu, peasent.
Wow! He read it off the teleprompter? I thought it was one of his off the cuff gaffes.
What a window into the ineptitude of his staff. That in itself is encouraging. Remember, don’t interfere when your opponent is destroying himself.
When I lived in Russia, I always looked for Polish products, they were always good. The Poles take pride in their work, and their continued existence after being caught in the middle of so many wars is a wonder. I will volunteer that I am one-quarter Polish.
Who wrote the speech? Seriously, WHO WROTE THE SPEECH?
I want his name. I want to see his face. And I want him out of that job.
This President has been ill-served by some of the worst writers in recent political history.
I suspect this speechwriter deliberately tried to sneak in an insulting historical reference and he got caught.
I would prefer that this speechwriter remain at his job, at least through Election Day.
The speechwriter is a deep-cover mole for the Romney campaign.
Although it wouldn’t be successful to have a mole as a speech writer without a moronic speech reader.
My brother bought me a watch made in Poland when he was on a European trip. That thing was built like a tank. In fact it had a picture of a tank on the face. And it was only $20 bucks! Great, now I’m getting mad because I just remembered that I lost that thing on a beach down in South Padre Island.
Obama’s gotta get off dat sofa, take dem slippers off, go on marchin’ down to dat teleprommer, and give de Polacks a good old fashion’ sorry. Day’s work to do! He ain’t done yet.
“And yes, dammit, the remarks were prepared. Teh Won, The Smartest Man Ever to Be Elected President™, read “Polish death camp” directly off his teleprompter.”
Someone who was truly learned would have looked askance at that phrasing, and reworked it. Reagan would not have let that go unnoticed. A smart man would have hired speech writers who would have hired competent researchers so that such a phrase would not have made it to the teleprompter.
What we have is an incompetent, narcissistic jerk who hires those even less competent than himself, so that he looks like “the smartest man in the room.” Why else would you pick Joe Biden to be vice president?
Biden on the ticket is insurance against assassination. Could you Brain Dead Biden running things?
From all the evidence we have Biden couldn’t do worse than Obama who is daily embarrassment as representative of Americans in the world..
And that’s only the evidence we have. IF the teleprompter incident? is anything to go by, shades of Tsardom, perhaps there is more, much more we might be allowed to learn about Obama and his troops. Remember the buck stops with the head of the staff? We already know of N. Pelosi, clinically lunatic, and H. Reid so sophisticated in his regal de haut en bas-nesss toward citizens.
And there is the off chance that Biden would be reluctant to live his life at taxpayers expense as Obama/Louis XVI with his Queen Michelle/Antoinette.
Let’s not forget this only one of many of Obama’s gaffes on facts/history/word pronunciation since proclaimed, degrees from Columbia and Harvard Law School doncha know, The One/I won.
On the scale one of his most insultingly ignorant comments not only to Poles but American Poles who are staunch Democrats. Could his comment possibly be considered “racist”? Is Obama still their guy?
What a coup for all those who preened their enlightenment in advancing Obama as “the first Afro-American President”. Representative of educated elite – Columbis and Gang of Four Harvard, Yale, Princeton and Stanford – as against guns and religion, sexist, racist, milatarist, astro-turf ignorant common Americans. Without hyphens.
I had a friend/mentor once tell me that 1st rate leaders hire 1st rate staff and 2nd rate leaders hire 3rd rate staff. A first rate leader wants to surround himself with the best he can find and wants his people to succeed and progress in their own careers. A 2nd rate leader is insecure enough to know how stupid he is, so he hires 3rd rate people so they won’t make him look bad.
And as The Won has demonstrated, the result is the whole team looks incompetent.
Obama does not know or care about history. Real history began, after all, on the day he was nominated to run for President. And Europe, after all, consists mostly of a bunch of white folks.
hell, in sept. 2009 obama cancelled the missile defense shield scheduled to go into the czech republic and (wait for it…) POLAND. and you expect him to make a distinction between running a death camp and being run through a death camp?
You left out that hid did it on the 80th Anniversary of the Nazi – Soviet mutual non-aggression pact that divided up Eastern Europe, and Poland, between them.
“The President has demonstrated in word and deed his rock-solid commitment to our close alliance with Poland.” No, the President has demonstrated in word and deed his complete contempt for our former close alliance with Poland. This move is just par for the course.
That’s a nice sentiment, but it just isn’t so. The Molotove-Ribbentrop Pact was signed on August 23, 1939 — a couple months shy of 73 years ago.
It seems the cancellation, on September 17, 2009, came on the 70th anniversary of the Soviet invasion of Poland:
http://www.all-encompassingly.com/obama-cancels-missile-shield-for-poland/
Now, I would give a pass on the anniversary, as it seems this White House does not have any idea of history. Besides, every day is going to be the anniversary of some historical event. But Polish Death Camps? No pass. And not a calculated insult, but rather a glimpse of just how incompetent the entire administration is.
And I’m glad they’re incompetent, I’d hate to see how much more damage they’d do to this country if they were competent.
Thanks for fixing my brain fade.
Some how I don’t see this as incompetence. An immature egomaniac like obama likes to ‘stick it’ to people he hates. I bet he wrote the ‘polish death camp’ line himself (on second thought no, writing requires effort and BO is known as a ‘light worker’)or at least approved it. That’s why he sent a lackey for the faux apology. Poles are mostly white conservative Christians and Jews. Obama hates all these.
Ding, ding, ding.
Obama has a history of alienating our closest allies especially Poland. Intentional or not it just shows how inept he is when it comes to foreign policy.
One has to wonder why Obama does not like these east block states that are now democracies.
The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact was between 2 Marxists Regimes: “National-Socialist” Marxists and “Socialism in One Country” Marxists. Obama is a “Post-Industrial” Marxist who just, retroactively, signed that damn pact.
Polacks, Nazis, what’s the diff? They’re both white. / Jeremiah W.
Polacken, Nazis, what’s the difference? They both murdered their Jewish populations. See references to Jedwadnabe, Kielce, the Pogroms, etc. And the Nazis would not have been successful in making Poland a “judenrein” district had the Einsatzgruppen not had the collaborative assistance of the Poles themselves; 95% of Poland’s prewar Jewish population landed in deep ditches or up the stacks at Auschwitz while 70% of Italy’s prewar population survived!
Sorry, I cannot get worked up over this particular Obamateurism as he unwittingly spoke the truth!
Many collaborated with the Nazis — including thousands of Jews.
That’s the nature of evil.
A teen George Soros was among them. His surrogate father was in a position to choose who lived and died during the war in Hungary. Soros claimed it was the greatest year of his life.
There are more Poles listed as “Rightous amoun the Nations” at Yad Vishem than any other country.
CR Your intellectual vulgarity is revolting (typical of Pro Obama trollers) You want to play your little game CR, Let’s play::JEWS,COMMUNISTS? WHAT’S THE DIFFERENCE? The Rosenbergs,Trotsky, Uritsky Marx( for starters). Jews have been disproportionally, predisposed to the theory and practice of genocidal totalitarianism ;however, this does not logically mean that all Jews hate freedom: there are too many honorable exceptions to draw thatconclusion, just as the many Poles who risked their lives to save Jewish victims of Nazism,invalidate your idiotic statement.
A German soldier saved my grandfather. Does that make every German soldier good? H*ll no! You can judge a people by what they did not under the yoke of totalitarianism like the Nazis; but, what they did when they were free. Post war Poland’s history is abysmal at best. Nothing ever gets mentioned of the post war Polish pogroms against the survivors of the death camps. Nothing ever gets mentioned of the official Polish policy of evicting every Jew they could from Poland. They even bragged that finally Poland is Judenrein. The people who survived instead went to the US or Israel and you can see how well these countries bloomed. Had the Poles been able to instead keep the survivors, their country would have flourished instead. The Poles have not made any attempt to return any prewar Jewish property to their rightful owners. Instead they pander for Jewish money with their ersatz Jewish cafes and tours of the death camps. In the most part, not only were the Poles complicit with the Germans, they aided and abetted the mass murder of Jew. Jewish survivors in the forests were more afraid of the ‘free’ Polish partisans than they were of the Germans. There was even a Jewish town in Poland that was attacked by the Poles after the Germans took Poland over.
The Germans made it illegal for such actions because it deprived them of the spoils. I don’t like Obama; but, this is one thing he got absolutely right. If the Poles don’t like it, its because they are trying to rewrite history and the truth really hurts.
And how are these sad qualities of the Poles distributed? By blood, mutual agreement, does it cross oceans? How do you get rid of it? Is it like a virus? Maybe we should build a wall around the place. And who do I say I’m sorry to?
You?
How do I get this good blood, this virus that gives me the moral high ground? Is it like a kit I put together? Is it mystical? Do I have to howl at the moon? It seems a great tool so we can put people in prisons before they commit crimes rather than after.
I’ve already howled at the moon in memory of my dead brother, uncles, aunts, cousins. I’m that close to what happened. I can show you pictures of my dead, its as if they never existed. Choke on your own venom.
It’s good to know that, according to you,the Poles were “free” under the murderous occupation of the Stalin-imposed communist government.No one is claiming that the Poles did not persecute Jews (as,shamefully, most Europeans have done)but mererely to point out that the Nazi deathcamps were a German creation not a Polish one, and to also point out the noble behavior of many Poles who risked their lives to save thousands of Jews , whose heroism was obscured by our idiot president’s embarrassing gaffe.It’s yet another “triumph” for affirmative action,and for the idiocracy that is the present US regime.
Funny but the list of Poles who helped Jews isn’t in the thousands, maybe a few hundred. Please look up the Polish AK and explain their actions. When you realize what they did, you will know the truth.
Marx was a Lutheran.
What are you smoking? Marx was a virulent atheist.
What kind of collaboration requires one first invade and kill a quarter million soldiers and civilians and deport hundreds of thousands? I don’t think “collaborate” means quite what you think it does.
While you’re at it, don’t forget to NOT thank the Polish Squadrons that flew with the RAF against the Luftwaffe from Dunkirk on. SIXTEEN of them, altogether. There were more Polish pilots flying with RAF fighter squadrons during the Battle of Britain than any other single foreign contingent.
And don’t fail to not thank the Polish electronics experts who escaped to England after the fall of Warsaw. They designed and built most of the portable radio sets used by the Special Operations Executive (SOE), that maintained communications between the Underground in “Festung Europa” and London.
And oh yes, speaking of the Underground, don’t forget to not thank the Polish Resistance for delivering the first A-4 (V-2) rocket hardware to come into Allied Intelligence hands to London. One of the pre-production prototypes crashed in the River Bug, and they concealed it, transported it to Warsaw under a wagonload of potatoes, and finally got its critical components to our side. BEFORE the missile was even operational.
As Daniel Patrick Moynihan once said, “Everybody is entitled to his own opinion. Nobody is entitled to his own set of facts”.
clear ether
eon
You missed one. It was Poles that captured an Enigma machine and got it to the British very early in the war (or just BEFORE the war; I forget which). That enabled them to set up Bletchley Park and read significant portions of the German cipher traffic for the rest of the war. And that helped the Allied war effort enormously.
B*llsh*t! Then enigma machine was captured off of a German submarine by a special unit of the Royal Navy. That’s real history. Unless of course that English unit was composed completely of Poles.
Enigma was first cracked by the Poles, and Polish refugees in Britain continued to make important contributions to the ongoing Allied effort to keep Enigma cracked.
Sparky, you got it right.
Andy’s kind of off base.
In December 1932, the Polish Cipher Bureau first broke Germany’s military Enigma ciphers. Five weeks before the outbreak of World War II, on 25 July 1939, in Warsaw, they presented their Enigma-decryption techniques and equipment to French and British military intelligence
The first enigma machine had two major cogs. With a good amount of work all the permutations and combinations were worked out. When the Germans introduced the third cog to this machine, they made it impossible to figure out all the permutations and combinations. It was this three cog machine that was captured by the Royal Navy when a damaged German Uboat was scuttled in the North Atlantic.
Please give us some sources for your “facts” which I’d like to explore.
Polish Squadrons, RAF and elsewhere;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_Air_Forces_in_France_and_Great_Britain
Polish Home Army intelligence operations focusing on V-1 and V-2;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home_Army_and_V1_and_V2
SOE Radio transceivers, Polish-designed and others;
http://www.campx.ca/WWIIClandestine.html
These are all online sources. However, my primary sources are books such as;
Crossbow and Overcast by James McGovern (wartime intelligence operations vs the German V-weapon program)
Hitler’s Last Weapons; The Underground War against the V-1 and V-2 by Josef Garlinski (also about the same subject)
Their Finest Hour by Edward Bishop (Battle of Britain; also check out the credit roll at the end of the 1969 movie of the same name)
Clandestine Operations; The Arms and Techniques of the Resistance, 1941-1944 by Pierre Lorain (Equipment and weapons of the Underground and SOE; foreword by David Kahn, author of The Codebreakers, another very interesting book in its own right).
The history that happens “in the shadows” is often even more interesting than what happens in broad daylight.
cheers
eon
No, it was not impossible. The Poles, and later the British at Bletchley Park, relied heavily on mathematical analysis, and the fact that the Germans were often sloppy in their use of codes. For example, sending the same message coded to some groups, while sending it un-coded to others. In any event, what mattered was not whether the Enigma machine had two, three, or even 4 wheels – (which were often changed throughout the war, rendering captured machines obsolete) Instead, what really mattered were the code breaking methods the Poles developed, and later turned over to the British, who were stunned. One significant Polish contribution was their automated code breaker, which they called a “Bombe”. Kind of a reverse Enigma, it ran through all the possible combinations the Enigma could produce. The additional wheel the Germans introduced required a far more complex “Bombe” than the Poles could afford to produce, so they had no choice but to turn everything over to the British.
In true politically correct fashion, the Smithsonian has an exhibit on WWII code breaking, with much credit given to the British, and zero given to the Poles.
Hey CR! Ad Hominem of the red herring variety. There are Jews who cooperate with Nazis, there are Jews who cooperate with the Communists to exterminate or sent millions to the “re-education” slave labored camps. What does that have to do withObama being ignorant of history ?
Hey CR, I assume you don’t know much about logic and reason. You committed a sweeping generalization by claiming ” Polacken, Nazis, what’s the difference? They both murdered their Jewish populations.”. You use Ad hominem and red herring fallacies to degrade the Polish people and divert attention away from the issue. Is the lack of reasons and critical thinking typical of people who support Obama ?
In a word, Yes.
Waiting for the Campaign stop in Hamtramck Michigan. That should be fun.
That made me smile!
The Poles should give him a free pass on this, since Obama is the nephew of the man who liberated Auschwitz.
http://hotair.com/archives/2008/05/27/obama-my-grandfather-liberated-auschwitz/
I’m so glad that the Reality Based Community is running the White House nowadays…
The heroic manner in which 0bama’s (“typically white”?) uncle fought his way across Poland with the US Army to liberate Auschwitz should be told in all sixty states.
It should be told in the “Austrian language”.
It should be told in the Arabic dialect of Afghanistan. Oops, I mean “Af-hanni-stahn”.
It should be told to every deceased US veteran and “corpseman” in the audience at Barry’s next Big Speech.
fifty-seven states.
Except that to too many Poles at that time, the death of Poland’s Jewish population was not a tragedy, but a benefit. There were brave exceptions here or there, but for every Jan Karski or Lech Walesa, there were a dozen or more Poles enthustiastically turning their Jewish neighbors over to be killed. The Polish resistance did nothing to help the Jewish defenders of the Warsaw Ghetto. The handful of Polish Jews who survived the death camps were met with beatings and pogroms when they tried to go return home. To this day, Jewish youth groups viewing the death camps are threatened and attacked by Polish mobs, and Polish priests spread blood libel.
Yes, the death camps were set up by the Nazis, not the Poles, yes, there were brave righteous gentiles among the Poles, and yes, Polish anti-Semitism may not have been universal, but let’s not be so quick to whitewash the widespread anti-Jewish violence and murder that infected Poland before, during and after the war.
rbj “Reagan would not have let that go unnoticed.” Not to let Obama off the hook, but is that the same Reagan who spoke at Bitburg?
Yes, only Jews were killed in Poland and the Poles invited the Germans in and only pretended to fight so they wouldn’t be brought up on war crimes charges if they lost.
I’ll say this again: clever arguments constructed around attaching and detaching morality by ethnicity kill people. Don’t make up facts, ignore them or decontextualize them. Justice doesn’t need that and a good argument isn’t constructed but found and presented.
You are totally wrong. I don’t want to go into all the details of everything my family or my wife’s family went through. You can actually write a book there is so much. As a group Poles were never friends to the Jews. They loved to watch the spectacles of Jews being tortured publicly by the Germans. After the war they were outright murderers. Don’t rewrite history!
Europe, in general, has never been friend to the Jews. Full stop.
Yes I am totally wrong and probably not a very good person since I have tainted German and Polish blood. You are totally right and possess the same innate innocence as a wood nymph. Sit down and make out a list of all the Poles who are bad people and all the Jews who are bad. We can show it the world so we can make fun of Poles when everyone sees how long the list is compared to Jews and throw in the Nobel list as an exclamation point. If the shoe fits wear it, right partner?
Let me know next time you need gum-chewing Bowery Boys in cultural short pants to run over and kick open doors. Let the phone ring, I might be busy polishing my antlers.
The sad fact is that probably 95% of the Polish people were complicit with the Nazis. Now I haven’t called you any names or judged you in any way. If you feel offended that’s your problem; but, you can’t change history. You can’t change the fact that the Poles murdered Jews both during the war and after the war. You remind me of those who know that they are wrong, faint innocence, and try to out shout their opponent. There is plenty of documentation for what I’ve stated. Just research it. If you feel insulted by learning the truth, then you have a problem and may need some help. Yes there were and are some bad Jews; however, they are a small minority. Here in lies the crux of your problem. You can name all the bad Jews because they are so few. You can’t name all the bad Poles because they are so many. If you don’t believe me take a trip over there. There aren’t any Jews there any more; yet, the Poles still blame all their ills on them. There haven’t been Jews in any quantity there since the 1950s. You’d think that they run the country and do nothing but create havoc for them. Explain all that. Go there and find out for yourself. When you meet somebody there be sure to tell them that you are Jewish. Then watch them.
When you say 95% I call you a straight up liar. Maybe you’d better just spit out what you’re implying here. We all certainly want to know where goodness emanates from.
The rest of your comments are so decontextualized from larger numbers of other dead and the events surrounding them that they amount to a straight up lie as well.
As for truth, I call the entirety of your post straight up smug moralizing that amounts to nothing more that supremacist racist trash. How’s that for clarity? Your essentially taking up the same point of view of the morons who gathered in a Berlin suburb and made their own clever points and plans.
I don’t know what you think you’re accomplishing here with such talk pal but I’ll tell you what, you ain’t making any friends in the world.
What’s the matter you have to discredit when you can’t disprove. My family lived the ‘joy’ of Poland. Now just like most anti-Semites, when you can’t win an argument, you call me a liar and compare me to Nazis. I didn’t have to scratch deep to find your soul did I. Does that make your blood boil, does that make you hate me, hate Jews. That’s too bad buddy.
Anyone familiar with the period in question and whose looked at the statistics knows what’s going on. Saying 95% of Poles are Jew-hating murderers is your stat. You’re no different than people who want to take American lynchings and expand their numbers and spread them all over America. It’s a clear ploy to exaggerate suffering and blame to benefit one ethnicity at the expense of another, to distribute morality according to blood – this is a pure Aryan argument.
You’ve successfully Sudetenized Poland long after WW II. And I wasn’t so much comparing you to a Nazi as saying you are indistinguishable from one from a distance. You certainly share the same intellectual space. If calling out one, crazy guy makes me an anti-Semite, it’s clear to me how you see the whole world as one full of Jew-haters. In fact what you’re seeing are basically decent people who hate you in particular, not Jews. I feel sorry for anyone who has to share a room with your smug hate. I have a feeling it’s not all that many – it’s toxic.
The Poles knew what was going on. None of them came to Kalish or Varta to warn my family. They were there to pick through the piles of clothing left by the dead. Then they moved into our houses, our farms and took everything. Tell me about the heroic Poles, its all lies. Believe what you want. Can you give us back our dead? Pshakrev Holera!
The same one, and it was known about the SS troops buried there. Kohl had asked Reagan to visit a German military cemetery as a step in “normalizing” Germany, rather than continue with Germany is full of Nazis 40 years after the end of the war. Now if you go to any German cemetery military or otherwise, chances are it’s going to contain some Nazis. So do you not go and keep pecking at the scab, or do you try and do some healing going forward. There can be honest differences of opinions, but to me, if you keep picking at the scab, you wind up like the Serbs, murdering based upon an 800 year old battle.
Did some Poles help the Nazis, yes. As did the French. And why stop with the 1940s? Europe has always picked on the Jews — Spain, Italy included.
The point is, the Poles did not initiate these camps, the Nazis did.
“There were brave exceptions here or there, but for every Jan Karski or Lech Walesa, there were a dozen or more Poles enthustiastically turning their Jewish neighbors over to be killed.”
I’m not sure who you meant to cite in that sentence but it definitely wasn’t Lech Walesa. Walesa was only born in 1943 so he wouldn’t have been turning neighbors over to be killed.
What people of the same color do to one another is almost completely invisible to a man straight out of 2 decades in a cult-like church devoted to an intensely ethno-centric view of the world that has only one interest – what white men have done to oppress black men.
Do you think it’s a coincidence he married a woman who’s senior thesis was titled Princeton-Educated Blacks and the Black Community? There is almost quite literally nothing happening outside their suffocating view of the world filtered through a lens of hurt race. Such people will cross “I’s” and dot “T’s” about a completely irrelevant, non-existent racial micro-environment at Princeton while WW II is as of much interest as two fighting fish. That’s why the First Lady wasn’t proud of America until it became about “them.” I’m surprised the Obama’s even know who won WW II and I can guarantee you they feel pretty much neutral about it since such people don’t huddle by interests but by skin.
To such people history is not only seen by race but by oppression and so history is decontextualized to the hilt until the slave trade becomes a completely white project and lynchings are not placed in their proper place or numbers but all over America and statistically thought of as “a lot.”
People who worried about Kennedy’s Catholicism and are worried about Romney’s Mormon background never thought to worry about the view from Black Liberation Theology where the only oppression of interest is black oppression and reality itself rearranged to show that black oppression still hasn’t ended. The President will stand a few hundred decontextualized miles from the old Sudetenland weeks after he himself participated in the Sudentenization of the Trayvon Martin case without a hint of irony.
Well said, sir.
Yes, very well said…..and may I add that that background of Obama’s is the reason he returned the famous sculpted bust of Winston Churchill to the British Embassy. Returning a gift presented in good faith is the very height of crass rudeness. He was thinking, doubtless, of his Kenyan born father under British Colonialism.
His own childhood experiences in formerly Dutch Indonesia may have been influenced by remaining bits of subtle, unspoken anti-Dutch (read “White”) attitudes surviving there after Indonesia’s Independence….I think before Omama was born, he doesn’t appear to be old enough to have first hand memories of Colonialism, ….but attitudes lingering still among indigenous Indonesians, which he’d have absorbed.
So, now, don’t we have in our Oval Office ‘occupied’ (I hate that word) by that chameleon Obama the very personification of multiculturalism?…(I hate that word also.)
Being ‘cosmopolitan’ is not the same as being ‘multicultural’ in its contemporary sense.
We Americans have a real composite (no pun intended) mess on our hands personified by Obama. Hopefully the practicalities of economic survival will jar this electorate into the election of…it looks like Romney…as his successor.
Obama simply must be defeated.
Black Liberation Theology is nothing more than marxism theologized (is that a word?). The pass that Obama has gotten and continues to get from the mainstream media is disgusting. It’s hard to believe that there are so many home-grown America-haters in this country. The liberals in the media have benefited more from America than most ordinary Americans, yet they openly criticize and hate their own country. Even though they know that Obama wants to destroy what America is to replace it with his vision of socialist utopia, they champion him. Shameful.
Could Oby be from Detroit?
“A widely cited report from the Detroit Regional Workforce Fund released in 2011 stated that the National Institute for Literacy (NIL) estimated 47 percent of city residents to be FUNCTIONALLY ILLITERATE (approx. Level 1 Literacy), meaning they had difficulty reading well enough to manage daily living and employment tasks that require reading skills beyond a basic level.”
And to have this crap preprinted for his prompter says even more about the leader and his ‘commu-crat’ staff!
This Marxist inspired creep tries to pass himself off as an intellect – “how could so many be so wrong?”
Detroit, you say? Islamic capital of America, you say?
Do you guys really believe that anyone who doesn’t read here or listen to Rush will ever know about this? The captive media wants only to praise Bam and Huerta and they have no interest in making him look even worse. If Bush had insulted Poles, we’d NEVER here the end of it, but BAM? Keep moving, nothing to see here!
How many Polish-Americans routinely vote Democrat? How many of them can we flip?
Perhaps I can get my grandfather to vote for the first time in his life. No promises- he doesn’t even speak English very well, but he’s a faithful Catholic and AK veteran.
It’s all over the media, which, for a change, are reporting rather than grandstanding or turning errors into hits and hits into errors.
Obama ain’t stupid, he just don’t care about the people of Poland, doesn’t care about history, doesn’t care about allies hell He just don’t care period about anything but being reelected and Golf.
I guess this is another Ich Bien Berliner moment for another democrat President speaking to allies.
Media bias duly noted, I must say that at least poor “jelly doughnut” Kennedy was TRYING to say something genuinely forceful and supportive. Not so with Barry. He was just walking through another annoying diplomatic ritual he had no real interest in.
“Look people, the camps were IN Poland, and we all know that everyone knows how smart I am… “
*sigh*…
“I know more about Judaism than all the other presidents combined.
*shakes head in annoyance*
Then it’s time to take it to him in his own backyard. Chicago has the highest concentration of Poles anywhere in the world except Warsaw, and wouldn’t it be humiliating for Obama to lose Illinois over this and the birth control nonsense.
I left this note on the Polish Government website:
Dear Mr. Prime Minister:
In light of the shockingly insensitive comments made by President Obama, I would like to extend a sincere apology on behalf of my fellow citizens. They were a slap in the face to the legacy of heroism and sacrifice of the late Jan Karski.
Unfortunately, our president lacks the intellectual gravitas to fully appreciate this and sadly was brought up by parents and mentors who have steeped him with the poisonous teachings of hatred of western values an the morally bankrupt values of moral and cultural relativism. He has abandoned our allies and embraced our enemies in a bid to “correct” his perceived “failings” of America and the west. Considering his abrogation of our previous commitment to provide missile defense systems to your country, this insult, shocking though it is, should almost come as no surprise.
I will close by saying that I hope you recognize that President Obama’s words are no way reflective of the attitudes of the vast majority of Americans who understand the legacy of Jan Karski and who value the friendship and alliance of our country and yours.
Hopefully, with the coming administration, we can once again renew our ties and preserve and honor the legacy of Jan Karski and all the heroes of the Polish resistance.
Dziekuje, and very best wishes,
Dzien Dobre, J.J. Sefton.
What does Obama care? As long as millions of white people died in death camps,who cares who actually ran them?
The first victims of the Nazis weren’t the Jews, or the mentally impaired. The first victims of the Nazis were the ‘mischlings’ or those of mixed blood. When France occupied the Rhein valley they had Sudanese soldiers who were black. These soldiers had relations with the local women and consequently they had mixed children. The first victims when the Nazis came to power were those children. There was a couple of hundred of these children who were murdered. This hardly ever gets mentioned in history.
The knock on Palin from the leftist filth in the media was that she did not know anything, that she was not intellectually curious.
Ironicly it appears that there President Obama is the intellecually incurious candidate from the 2008 election.
This despite a prep school and ivy league education.
He’s a testament to the injustice of affirmative action, which overrides, lack of merit, ignorance and intelligence,on the way to debasing the office of the president.
Maybe so, but somebody on that staff knows someone who can press a pair of slacks! Priorities!
I have doubted for a long time that Obama actually received any sort of education, no matter where he supposedly attended.
I wonder if Obama is really just another Elena Ceaucescu? The wife of the former leader of Romania was widely touted as a brilliant chemist who was looked to by other chemists from all over the world (even the West). In reality, she only had good grades in one class in her very limited education – sewing – and there are widespread accusations that she “bought” her university degrees including her Ph.D. Various real chemists have come forward to say that they were forced to write papers for her, which she then claimed as her own work. As the wife of the dictator, she could get away with that.
It’s hard not to wonder if Obama has done something comparable with his own education given the sealing of all his records….
‘education’ = what happens in my colon when I eat questionable food.
I would caution anyone inclined to actually hate Obama, to give it some thought; because that is exactly what this kind of rhetoric (Obama’s words)is/are designed to do: Divide people and cause hatred. This is deliberate, as moronic as it may seem. Very deceptive stuff. Polish people, can defend themselves on this one; they’re tough, super-hard working, intelligent and moral people that can turn a hovel into a mansion simple because they want a better future; imagine that!
To the Polish people from me: Obama does NOT represent America; we love you all.
I don’t hate The One. I simply find Him tiresome, rude, arrogant, narcissistic, egomaniacal, narrow-minded, almost unbelievably ignorant for a man with His supposed intellectual chops and education, and on top of that also ideologically-driven, factually-challenged, and from all indications dangerously stupid.
At no point, however, do I see anything in Him that qualifies Him to run a hot-dog stand, much less be President of (like it or not) the most powerful nation on Earth.
And from all available evidence, He does NOT like that fact about the United States of America.
clear ether
eon
(PS to PJM administrators; Is there any way you could adopt the comments engine Hot Air uses? I’m uncomfortable with using “caps” for emphasis; it’s a lot like shouting. Could we have some italics, please? Pretty Please?
)
We don’t have the buttons for it, but you may use simple HTML code. Just drop in [em] where you want your italics to start, and [/em] where you want them to end. Of course, use the greater-than/lesser-than, rather than the brackets I used to demo.
Stephen;
Thanks. All my previous attempts to use italic failed to close, which is the reason I asked.
cheers
eon
What?
This website uses HTML commands which a google search readily finds.
bobbcat;
The Internet is digital. I’m analogue.
cheers
eon
I don’t hate The One. I simply find Him tiresome, rude, arrogant, narcissistic, egomaniacal, narrow-minded, almost unbelievably ignorant for a man with His supposed intellectual chops and education, and on top of that also ideologically-driven, factually-challenged, and from all indications dangerously stupid.
You forgot to add the traditional zinger: “And those are his good points!”
By the way, I get italics just fine by using [i] before my emphasized point and [/i] afterwards; just use “angle brackets” (greater-than and less-than signs) in place of the square brackets.
To say that the phrase could have been re-worked is to laugh. “Death camps in Poland” is a fact. “Polish death camps” is not.
On the other hand, antisemitism has been a popular sport in Poland since the 15th century, if not before. After WW2, between 1944 and 1948, there were several “pogroms” against Jews in Poland. There were an estimated 200,000 Jews in Poland in 1945. More came in with the Soviet forces, many of them employed by the Soviets in senior government positions. However, any Jew who wanted to leave could up to 1948. By 1950 the Jewish population of Poland had fallen to about 90,000. You can google “Jewish pogrom in Poland after 1944″ for more reading than you will probably want to do.
Timothy Snyder’s Bloodlands also discusses the pogroms against the Jews after WW II.
Wikipedia says: “Polish historian Tadeusz Piotrowski cites 1500-2000 victims between the years 1944 and 1947 due to general civil strife that came about with Soviet consolidation of power, constituting 2 to 3 percent of the total number of victims of postwar violence in the country.”
And that’s the high estimate of Jews killed, 327 the confirmed number. So during a 3 yr. de facto civil war, why did the other 97% of human beings die? Normal evil?
There’s a strange air of unreality about people who single out 3% of deaths for special attention while accusing others of having the same attitude. Perhaps I’ll figure it out sometime – I hope I don’t.
I was born in Poland and subjected to a grenade attack after the war. I was an infant. By citing your statistics that about 20-25 percent of casualties were Jewish, you have put mud on your own face. How many Jews returned, but never to their own homes-never. They lived in “Western Poland” deserted by the Germans. Why would on fifth of the victims be Jewish, as they certainly were not one fifth of the population post war. I have known good Poles and most of the survivors I know had some help at survival from gentiles, either because they were good brave people or they were paid with money or jewels by the Jews. So you see Flail, you disproved you own assertion. It was no accident that the camps were situated in Poland. It was indeed good fertile ground to grow the massacre.
Where inhale was his mind at during high school history class?
/yes, that’s where I thought
I wonder if President 0 plans to bow obsequiously before the Poles? Probably not; that gesture is reserved for Muslims and Chinese.
Also read: “Bloodlands — Europe Between Hitler and Stalin” for an eye-opener on the true dimensions of what went on in Poland, the Ukraine, etc. It’s a miracle there were any Poles left by 1945.
“Warsaw Uprising brutally smashed by the Nazis, as the Red Army sat and watched.”
This was one of the true horrors of World War II and yet you hear nothing about it. For a few days the tough Polish resistance stood toe-to-toe against some of the best troops the Germans had to offer and they only gave up when they were literally overwhelmed by the German Army. These were some of the toughest and bravest people I’ve ever had the privilege to read about and yet few people today know that these individuals even existed. It is a story that really needs to be told. I also hate it when Hollywood moans that there are no good ideas out there for any good movies. Bunk. Here is one tailor-made for the silver screen. It’s about time somebody made a good film about this and showed the world just how brave the Polish people are.
As for Obama, just shows you how little this man knows about history. And that is really a dangerous thing for any president. Because if you don’t know your past, you’ll never know how to deal with the future.
Another event that could make a very good film is described in the book The long walk : the true story of a trek to freedom by Slavomir Rawicz. (I read the English translation, not knowing the Polish language.)
This is the true story of a Polish soldier that was arrested by the Soviets when they invaded the eastern part of Poland in 1939. After months of interrogation and torture, he was sent deep into Siberia and after a harrowing journey which he barely survived, he arrived at the camp. He somehow managed to make friends with the wife of the Russian commandant and she smuggled him equipment that would allow him and a handful of others to escape the camp and hope to survive the staggering cold of Siberia (70 below is not unheard of in Siberia and 40 below is just a typical winter day there.)
The eight escapees decided that the Soviets would look for them to the north, east and west but not to the south so they set off in that direction, finally crossing into Mongolia, which was an ally of the Soviets and not to be trusted. They crossed a huge desert there, the Gobi, and some died. Then they entered Tibet which was still free in those days and traversed the Himalayas, the highest mountains in the world, for months, losing more people. But finally four of them managed to descend into India where they found freedom. The survivors had walked ten thousand miles.
Any director worth his salt ought to be able to find the drama in that.
Let me emphasize that this is a true story. I found it in my library in the non-fiction section.
They did. It’s called The Way Back; released in 2010. Stars Ed Harris, Colin Farrell, and Saoirse Ronan.
Thanks for the info about The Way Back. I will definitely track that down.
According to the IMDB article, the movie makes a few changes from the book – as movies usually do – and now there is an American among the escapees. That’s unfortunate. Do they really think an American audience can’t possibly identify with non-Americans escaping the Gulag?
“Any director worth his salt ought to be able to find the drama in that.”
I recall reading, Stephan Ambrose I think, about 3 Korean soliders in German uniform being taken prisoner in France by US foreces in 1944. It seems they were captured by the Japanese and forced into the Imperial Army; then captured by the Russians and pressed into Red Army; then captured by the Wehrmacht and forced to serve on the Atlantic wall and then captured by the Americans.
That journey would make a good movie.
Yes, the Soviet Army sat back and waited while the Nazis crushed the Polish uprising. I had read of a Polish poet, who wrote a few lines of verse on this:
“We are waiting for thee, Red Pest; To save us from the Black Death.”
Poor Poland – caught between the Red Pest and the Black Death.
He read this off the Teleprompter. Ron Burgundy for President!
“You stay classy Warsaw.”
• Eastern Poland invaded by Soviet Union, and annexed.
And NEVER returned. The Poles lost the eastern third of their country to Russia. The Poles who were unceremoniously kicked out of their homes were sent walking westward.
That complaint might be a bit unfair. The people in eastern Poland were almost entirely White Russian and Ukrainian. And the line Stalin settled for in 1945 more or less followed the Curzon Line proposed by the Brits at the end of the First World War. In fact, those lands were conquered from Russia by Poland during the 1921-22 Russo-Polish War. The Soviets invaded Poland from the Curzon Line, got halted at the gates of Warsaw, then rolled back to the interwar border we know best.
The people in eastern Poland were almost entirely White Russian and Ukrainian…
Yes and no. In the cities, most people were Poles. On the country,most people were indeed Non-Poles. The territory Poland conquered was once part of the Rzeczpospolita (what is today Belarus was the Grand Duchy of Lithuania f.e)a multinational state.Both peoples did not really have(and even today,this is a major issue, a really feeling of nationhood,especially Belarussians.Actually,Pilsudski promised Ukrainians a free Ukraine and was devastated that he was not able to keep his promise.Of course ,today things look slightly different.Being a part of the Soviet empire was a terrible tragedy for these both countries-they were effectively kept from building up a strong sense of nationhood-a huge problem even today.During the Second Polish Republic the state was actually funding Belarussian and Ukrainian language education-I believe that, in the long run,this would have caused them to gain a sense of national identity and to pressure Poland for independence with greater chances than they had under Russian dominance.
About Warsaw-Stalin ordered the armies to stop at the gates of Warsaw and even keep Poles who wanted to join the fight from getting in. He was hoping that the Germans would kill off Polish patriots so that his job would be easier.
As usual when you start discussing history, things start getting morally murky when you go back a little further than the time you are discussing.
While your remarks are correct, you are not taking into account that there was no Poland at all (as a sovereign nation) from the late 1790s until the end of World War I. It had been partitioned out of existence between Russia, Prussia and the Austro-Hungarian Empires. Of course the language and culture lived on and many people aspired to re-create Poland but you literally couldn’t find Poland on a map in those years because it simply didn’t exist.
So what are the proper borders of Poland? Frankly, I don’t pretend to know what any country’s borders should be. They are rarely obvious. A German might argue that they should get back the chunk of Germany that was given to Poland at the end of WW II since that was German territory for a long time. In fact, I think you could dispute almost every border in existence. Certainly some Mexicans believe that much of the US Southwest should belong to Mexico. And so on.
You are correct. However, you failed to mention that Stalin “compensated” the Poles for the portion of eastern Poland that he annexed to the Soviet Union by slicing off a chunk of eastern Germany and giving it to Poland; it then became the western portion of Poland. Poland was allowed to keep that chunk after the Berlin Wall was torn down. In effect, Stalin “moved” Poland roughly 200 kilometers West.
In Hitler’s day, Berlin was something like 250 kilometers from the Polish border. Today, it is only about 20 km from the Polish border.
Moving Poland to the Oder-Neisse Line was a bit of rough justice against the Germans, taking away one of thei most important industrial regions. It also gave the Poles a more defendable western border.
A win-win, considering what caused it all.
Agreed. Not that Stalin knew or cared much about justice, at least as I define the term. He just wanted as weak a Germany as he could get with as much buffer space between Russia proper and Germany as he could manage, in case the Germans eventually came back looking for a rematch.
Greetings from Poland! Thats the tragedy of my people: We have suffered like no other nation,yet 25% of Israelis think Poles were “just as bad as the Germans”.Read about “Holocaust in occupied Poland” on Wikipedia and realize this simple truth-no Nation did more under more dreadful circumstances than the Poles.Here are some names to check:Zegota,Pilecki,Sendlerowa,Karski.Jan Mosdorf was na Nationalist who did not like Jews very much, yet when he saw what Germans were doing to them he decided to help.As many as 100 000 people were murdered by German SS/Gestapo for trying to help Jews. I urge you to read the book: Bieganski and the brute polack stereotype by V. Goska. Its an eye-opener. I am sorry to say this, but I have been personally verbally abused by some Jewish people as antisemic polish swine.This is insanity, especially,since I Support Israel and the US 110%! Some people of Jewish faith,like Jan T. Gross, are misrepresenting Polish-Jewish Relations in a way that will cause Anger. I have often read the following combination: “nazis” (not Germans, G-d forbid ,that would not be PC) and “Polish camps” “Polish anti-semitism” ect. I am not very astonished at Obamas gaffe-its more of a symptom to me. I feel terrible: We have lost so much during the war,saved so many lives(Zegota f.e) and fought so hard, yet a democrat sold us to Stalin (who plundered and mudered patriotic Poles).America rebuild Germany,who today is trying to continue were certain people left of-domination of Europe. We are spat upon as antisemites and rascist although there is less of both in Poland than elsewhere.Our liberal government is actually ruining the Country.We did not get a Marschall Plan, yet we are Your most ardent allies. What do we get for that? Again, Obama,a democrat, wants to sell us to Putin.We are made to pay for rebuilding Afganistan while we are lacking funding Polish schools.Now this. I wished we had the a-bomb for our own security. PLEASE vote this moronski OUT of the White House,for Your own sake.For Polands sake! From Warsaw-Feliks
We’re trying, we really are. And thanks for coming by and sharing this with us.
Sorry to say this but the Poles I’ve met oozed anti-Semitism. Everything was alright until they learned I was Jewish. Explain that.
Maybe you’re hanging around with the wrong Poles?
You have met some Polish people who did not take kindly to You being Jewish? I am sorry if so. There are two possible explanations.
1. They really were antisemits. (as I have met such even in Japan I am not that estonished that they exist)
2. After having been insulted (not in a Polish synagogue but,to add insult to irony,in a German one!!!) as a Polish antisemite (I am not,of course,why else would I have gone to visit a synagogue?!) I did some research. This is what I came up with: Unfortunately, there are some Jewish people (especially in the US, where American Jewry failed miserably to even try to help their bretheren in Europe-Jan Karski was meeting also with Jewish leaders, and they just did not give a damn) who are smearing the Polish nation.In Poland,we have Michnik (btw,his brother Stefan Michnik was a Stalinist murderer who never paid for his crimes and whos deeds Michnik is cool with) and Seweryn Blumsztajn.BTW,there were many Jewish-Polish stalinist criminals (in the UB (security service) about 30-50%!) in Soviet occupied Poland. They were choosen by the Soviet NKVD from among people of Jewish descent for their vileness and because they came from a minority.This left a horrible impression, and it would be extremly important to talk about this-people like Michnik and Blumstajn are calling such people “antisemits”.This creats anger-especially because an earnest discussion about it would dissolve ideals like Jews being anti-Polish,create understanding.
Both are calling Polish patriots or conservatives “fascists” and pushing a nihilistic,leftist agenda (on the other hand, we have true patriots like Dawid Wildstein).In America there are people like f.e Jan T.Gross.Let me explain. He wrote a book about Polish collaborators.Noting wrong about that, in fact, we in Poland have researched this already and no one is denying that some,but very few!,Poles were criminals.BUT he is implying,often in interviews,that we are de-facto antisemits by birth. This causes anger. Have You seen the movie “Defamation”? It shows what a teacher is telling Israeli youngsters before they go to Auschwitz: Dont talk to Poles,they are vile antisemits,they hate you because you are Jewish.The effect? The teenagers behave as if they would have every right to behave nasty towards us (google Israeli teenagers and Poland). I was in Auschwitz and met some of them. They behaved without respect and made me understand that I was less of a humane being. This causes resentment. I know,it may seem far off,but plz read this article here:
http://www.jewishpost.com/viewpoints/My-Trip-to-Poland-The-Reality-of-Being-Jewish.html
I have requested 2-3 times to have it removed but to no avail. It does not mention “German” but things like -censored-you nazis and -censored- Poland. This causes anti-Jewish resentment. Or have a look at what comments appear on NYT articles about Poland. Or the fact, that,according to Haaretz.online, about 25% of Israelis think Poles are “Just as guilty as Germans”.This begets resentment-Even I am very angry,sometimes, I am afraid to tell Jewish people Im Polish, afraid, that I will be labeled an antisemite because of it.Nethertheless,I like Judaism as a religion and would really want to go to Israel some day. Anyways,I hope I could shed some light on that phenomenon. Also, feel free to come to visit Poland sometime and talk to some real Jewish Poles-I assure You,you will be safer even wearing a kippah than in countries like GB,France or Germany (check the statistics if You dont believe me
)
Tell me about the AK and what heroes they were please.
I agree 100% with you that numerous Poles helped Jews and saved them while risking their lives. Even in the extermination camps there were Poles who were practicaly saints, indeed some of them ARE now official Catholic saints for their sacrifice and humanity in the face of overwhelming evil. Poles being considered only marinally less “subhuman” than Jews in the Nazi universe, I am sometimes astounded that any of them dared help any Jews at all, the fate of those caught doing so being instant death. But those Israelies who consider the Poles as collaborators are just noting the fact is that some Poles collaborated in the murder of the Jews, and many more — as in Germany — simply ignored it. There is no use whitewashing history.
That said, I agree with you that the “as bad as the Nazis” is insulting, and false, rhetoric. My excuse is, as an Israeli, that the expression in question is (in Israel) a left-wing cliche used against (usually) the right, with the expected result that the phrase lost all of its meaning to shock. If you’ll visit Israel you’ll find that the attitude toward you, indeed toward anybody who is supportive of Israel in the face of the propaganda war against is, is that of support and thanks.
to 10. ahad ha’amoratsim
There are other items in your comment which I question or with which I disagree, but I’ll limit myself to this allegation: – “The Polish resistance did nothing to help the Jewish defenders of the Warsaw Ghetto”.
It is probably difficult or impossible to get a full and accurate account of what happened during the Nazi liquidation of the Warsaw Ghetto, but after meticulous research, Prof. Moshe Arens, former Defense Minister of the State of Israel, disagrees with you:
“Two organizations of Jewish fighters had been preparing themselves for the revolt. Best known by the initials of their Polish names, they were: ZOB (Zydowska Organizacja Bojowa) led by Mordechai Anielewicz, and ZZW (Zidowski Zwiazek Woskowy) led by Pawel Frenkel…
ZZW WAS headed by Pawel Frenkel of the Revisionist youth movement Betar; his deputies were David Apfelbaum and Leon Rodal. It was better trained and better equipped. It had been founded almost immediately after the German conquest of western Poland and included a number of men who had served with the Polish Army as officers during the German invasion in September 1939, as well as members of Betar who had received military training in the cells established by the IZL in Poland prior to the war.
Apfelbaum had been a Polish officer and through his acquaintance with Major Henryk Iwanski, who had commanded his regiment during the battles against the invading German army, he had already arranged the first acquisition of arms for ZZW at the end of 1939. Iwanski was a member of the Polish underground Security Corps (KB), which subsequently became a part of the Polish underground Home Army (AK). He and his unit assisted ZZW in the training and acquisition of weapons and ammunition and participated together with ZZW fighters in some of the battles of the revolt. Frenkel had succeeded in establishing contact with Captain Cezary Ketling, one of the leaders of another Polish underground group, PLAN, which also provided assistance to ZZW. ZZW had succeeded in digging two tunnels under the ghetto walls providing contact with the outside and allowing smuggling of arms into the ghetto …
Many years later, in 1993, a Polish woman, Alicja Kaczynska, who had lived during the war on the even-numbered side of Muranowski Street outside the ghetto, opposite ZZW headquarters, published a book of war-time reminiscences, At The Gates Of Hell. In it she recalls the flags the ZZW had raised over the ghetto.
‘On the roof opposite we could see people coming and going, and we could see that each of them was armed with some kind of weapon. At one moment we witnessed an exceptional sight on that roof – a blue-and-white flag and a red-and-white flag were raised. We all cheered. Look! Look! The Jewish flag! The Jews have taken Muranowska Square! Our voices echoed on the stairs. We hugged each other, hugged and kissed.’” – Who Defended The Warsaw Ghetto? By Moshe Arens – http://www.freeman.org/m_online/may03/arens.htm
see also,
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/Flash.aspx/232223
Flags Over the Warsaw Ghetto by Moshe Arens – http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/9652295272/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER
BTW, I’m a Jew.
BTW, I don’t care. Look up the AK which was the Polish resistance group. See how they treated the Jews. That’s one they can’t white wash.
BTW, when the Warsaw uprising was going on and the Russian armies approached, the AK made one request, “Give us your Jews.” Maybe that’s one reason the Russian advance halted.
“The president has demonstrated in word and deed his rock-solid commitment to our close alliance with Poland.” Really? Deeds like his decision to cancel, on the anniversary of the invasion of Poland, the planned missile defense system for Eastern Europe? Obama’s decision blind-sided Poland and now he distorts history by erroneously calling Nazi death camps “Polish death camps”. With allies like Obama who needs enemies? He’s truly our first post-historical President, dismissing everything that came before his presidency as unimportant.
In reading the text of Obama’s Medal of Freedom remarks there are other cringe-worthy comments. He talked about the packed house being a testament to how “cool this group is”. Cool? That’s not a dignified word to use at a solemn and important ceremony. He also said none of the recipients accomplished what they did because they were expecting a medal from a “guy named Barack Obama”. Why did he feel it necessary to insert his name into a ceremony honoring selfless patriots? Someone should tell him: It’s not about you, Barry.
And last but not least (as Rush says, it’s the small things that are often the most telling): Obama called the Medal of Freedom the highest civilian honor THIS country can bestow. Why he didn’t say OUR country? I think I know the answer: Obama feels no kinship with the extraordinary country he’s supposed to lead. As he’s told us in past remarks, America is just one country among many and no big deal. Only Obama is “cool” enough to understand that and the rest of us foolish, patriotic rubes are not.
“Someone should tell him: It’s not about you, Barry.”
The bride at every wedding, the corpse at every funeral.
But he’s so bad at it, he’s practically the corpse at every wedding and the bride at every funeral.
“But he’s so bad at it, he’s practically the corpse at every wedding and the bride at every funeral.”
Stephen Green, FTW.
+1.
PJmedia really needs a “like” or “+1″ button.
As an addition to my comment above, and writing as an American Jew with a fair amount of service in Iraq and Afghanistan, isn’t it the height of foolishness for Jews and Poles to obsess over both genuine past evils as well as exaggerated myths which pit us against each other?
There is much interesting and worthwhile study to be done concerning the history of Jews in Poland, a history which too often contained tragedy and evil but also featured great achievements and mutual benefit. But, I would suggest that the most important thing today is that that Poland and Israel are natural and important allies of the United States in the fight against the modern day fascists and enemies of freedom.
Well said! Trying to balance out the scales of cosmic justice by ethnicity is always going to fail. We are all individuals as well as members of clans, tribes, ethnicities, nations, etc. It’s the fascists, Nazis, communists, socialists, etc, who want to judge us all by group alone, whether using race or class or whatever. Each individual deserves to be judged according to his or her own deeds, and thankfully the ultimate justice will be administered where required. On Earth we’ll never be able to judge with real accuracy, so best to reserve judgement as much as possible. I would expect every Pole to despise anti-semitism as much as I do, until it’s proved beyond all doubt otherwise. It’s the least I can do for anyone, of any ethnicity. I would also never assume all Jews are communists because Marx was. Ludicrous! But then that’s what passes for politics all too much these days: group = guilt/innocence. I reject group guilt and innocence utterly.
Er, folks, I really don’t see what the big deal is. Clearly Obama simply meant the death camps WERE in Poland. Presumably he wanted to emphasize their location because he was honoring a Pole who alerted the world about their existence, or perhaps he was thinking about distinguishing them from the concentration camps in Germany. I mean, does anybody seriously think “Warsaw ghetto” means the people of Warsaw were responsible for erecting it?
“Polish death camp” is a phrase used by people looking to minimize German war guilt, by implicating the Poles in the Holocaust.
That’s why it’s a big deal — a very big deal — to our friends in Poland.
Now you might still say, “Hey, it’s an honest mistake — Obama is no Holocaust denier.” And that’s true. But you don’t show up in cutoffs to meet the Queen. You don’t prattle on about the Inquisition at a function you’re holding to honor a Catholic charity. And you don’t say “Polish death camps” at a ceremony to honor a Polish underground leader.
This was a bad, stupid, and avoidable mistake.
“Polish death camps” was obviously a poor choice of words, not something to get outraged over. Those who believe that the Poles share some of the responsibility for the mass murders of Jews during Word War II point to pogroms like Jedwabne and Kielce, they don’t accuse the Poles of having run Auschwitz.
You don’t have to make the claim that the Poles ran Auschwitz to claim — as far too many do — that Poles were complicit in the Holocaust. Just scan an earlier comment here for a particularly nasty example of just that.
No one in europe (I include Russia/USSR in this), from the pre-middle ages on is innocent wrt the ongoing jewish genocide. It’s all over the history. When in doubt, blame the Jews. And I’m a gentile.
What mass murder of Jews happened in Kielce?
Are you talking about the 1918 Pogrom? Or are you talking about May 23,1943 the murder of 45 children. Or are you talking about the barn fire? Please be specific.
“‘Polish death camps’ was obviously a poor choice of words, not something to get outraged over.”
Yes, it was. ‘Polish death camps’ is a propaganda term, used to minimize German responsibility for the atrocities. It tries to shift the blame somewhat away from the Germans. It neutralizes the intensity, and the Poles know it. Using it in this ceremony to honor such a freedom fighter, is the equivalent of calling a black man who participated in the slave underground railroad a HNIC (Head Nigger In Charge), the black man who kept the slaves on the plantation pacified. Obama could not have found a more insulting phrase to use. He could not. Based on his treatment of Poland, one of the few nations in Europe which regards us warmly, I suspect the bastards did it on purpose.
Now, regardless of whatever the participation of the Poles, this man Obama was honoring had nothing to do with it. This was his day and his ceremony. So, Andy, while your outrage may or may not be righteous, this man is not your proper target. He stands against these things, same as you. Obama gave him the back of his hand.
Obama does these things constantly to our friends in the world. If it were just once or twice, one could chalk it up to incompetence, but it is every single time he deals with our friends in the world. “… Three times is enemy action.” He knows exactly what he is doing.
It’s like the bully who steps on your toes purposely, just like the day before, who then professes his innocence, that it was accidental. You know it was not, and the look he gives you, which others cannot see, confirms it. When you protest, he then accuses you of over-reacting.
You think it might not have been intentional? Bulldookey. If it were unintentional, he would profusely apologize and attempt to make amends. He has not, and will not. One has to be just ignorant of thugs to not see it. This was deliberate. Rat bastard.
well.. Barack and Michelle may not have showed up in cutoffs, but.. they gave Elizabeth, Queen of England, Scotland, Wales and the British Commonwealth a great big hug and an IPod loaded with Obama’s speeches.
Thiss… along with his mispronunciation of “corps” (hard ‘p’)
just riles me no end.
Barack and Michelle are trash. Insulting allies like Poland and Israel is just par for their course.
>>>>>“Polish death camp” is a phrase used by people looking to minimize German war guilt, by implicating the Poles in the Holocaust.
True, but clearly it also can simply means a death camp in Poland. Context matters.
To give an analogy: “the truth about the holocaust” is a phrase used by holocaust deniers to try and gain legitimacy of their views. But that hardly means anybody who uses the phrase “the truth about the holocaust” in any context is a holocaust denier. If Obama were honoring a distinguished history professor and said that he helped “find the truth about the holocaust”, would that mean Obama is a holocaust denier?
Similarly, surely nobody believes Obama thinks the Poles ran the death camps, or that he wishes to minimize Nazi atrocities. In fact he used the statement when he was honoring a brave Pole for doing the exact opposite — for *exposing* the Nazi atrocities in Poland.
I have a new game for everyone. Is Your President Smarter Than a Fifth Grader?
Of course, it would be a very quick game as there is only one answer. A two letter word. Starting with N. And ending with O.
In the spirit of true Democratic fairness – and Affirmative Action – maybe we should change that title to “Are you smarter than a SECOND Grader?”. And give him a pass because of his skin color.
Oops, that title was supposed to be “Is the PRESIDENT Smarter than a Second Grader”! I meant no offense to you LGoPS.
No problem Snarky.
And the pathetic part is the sh1tstream media is in his back pocket and more than likely won’t call him out for it. This embarassment of a president and this condescending irresponsible media-in name only-types need to go away and soon…
Moochelle said we had to “change our history and our traditions”…..he’s only doing what he’s told….
Mr. Green — one thing to remember about Warsaw. Of all Allied cities, none suffered more damage than Warsaw. Not London, not Paris, not Rotterdam, not even Manila, which was the second most damaged Allied city.
The fact that the National SOCIALISTS decided to put their death camps in countries outside of Germany is not a reason to miss the salient fact that it was still a National SOCIALIST death camp. Especially, for someone claiming to be the president of the United States. He should know better. Or at least his teleprompter should.
I appreciate the comment, but if you’ll take a second look at my list, you’ll see I mentioned that already.
With respect, I think you’ve missed the points which Mr. Green made.
Perhaps I misunderstand your comment, but it seems to be pointing out multiple shortcomings which simply are not there.
…Except for the little detail that the Nazis weren’t SOCIALISTS, not matter how many times you capitalize it.
I keep telling people that, with details to establish the case, but everyone is welded to their dogma.
Yes they were indeed socialists. The first thing Hitler did was nationalize vital industries such as steel and coal. What is more they called themselves ‘socialist’ and trying to change those facts decades after the fact won’t change a darn thing or bring any further understanding.
Nationalsozialismus, define that and tell us, are you an ignorant jackass or a liar?
I fully agree that the Poles lead the field by several furlongs when it comes to tragic European peoples. Their hardihood and tenacity over the centuries is a tribute to their spirit..
Having said that I really can’t get too worked up about this latest marble-mouthed utterance by you-know-who. He clearly meant to say “Concentration camps in Poland” but he lacks the mental acuity to scan a few lines ahead of what he is reading on his teleprompter to see if anything troublesome may be coming up. We know that he can’t think on his feet when he speaks and clearly believes that any combination of words delivered in his much-praised baritone is enough to wow any audience.
However I will grant you that if this same stumble had been made by someone else, lets call him George W. Bush, the good folks at the New York Times, WaPo, CNN etc. would be taking it as proof positive that the speaker was a mumble-mouthed nincompoop. They would also be braying with shrill demands that Mr. Bush do some sort of Canossa-like performance and prostrate himself before those whom he had offended.
Mr. Green, I am completely astonished-You have realized the gravest implication the term “Polish camps” has-namely,the whitening of German guilt. Im saying this because I have once met an American exchange student from an expensive private university in America who seriously compared the Second Polish Republic (which was, during longer intervals,ruled by an authoritarian regime (sanacja)which did jail some of its opponents, but did not actually had them murdered) with Nazi Germany, because “both were dictatorships”. I am beginning to suspect s.th might be wrong with American higher education (and not only with American)
What about the deportation of Jews in the 1950s. For some reason it has a familiar ring to it.
WHOLLY APART from any and all questions of Polish involvement in anything or whatever back then, or not ….
Diplomats and Presidents are expected to hew to a higher standard, precisely because the things they say do matter.
President (yes, “President”) Obama was beyond the pale for using that phrase.
He might have been reading from the TOTUS, but the buck stopped at Barack Obama’s mouth, just like it has with every other President.
THAT is what the issue is here.
This was not an error. It was a signal to our Russian allies that things will be done differently after the election.
First he insults my religion by trying to order us to commit sacrilege, then he insults my intelligence by lying about it, and now he spits on my great-grandparents’ graves! The blood of an AK soldier courses through my veins, and I will not tolerate these insults being levied at my ancestors and their countrymen.
[Polish PM Donald] Tusk said he was accepting a White House explanation that Obama “misspoke” but was still waiting for a “stronger, more pointed reaction” that could eliminate the phrasing “once and for all.” Tusk said it was a “matter of the U.S.’s reputation.”
(Courtesy of Fox News.)
–
I think it’s time to back off on the extremist rhetoric.
Yes, it is true that the U.S.’s reputation took a hit. In November of 2008 we did the equivalent of that night when our college roommate accidentally mixed rat poison in with the dope that had been sprayed with herbicide and we ended up in a hotel in Tijuana handcuffed to a goat trying to figure out what that thing that looked like a marriage license actually said. But everyone makes mistakes.
OK, we didn’t make those mistakes; people who thought “Hope” and “Change” was a reason to treat the presidency as a entry level job did. But in spite of it all, the sacrifices of people like Casimir Pulaski and Thaddeus Kosciusko were not in vain. Here’s hoping for real change away from people who look at Zimbabwe and Bangladesh and say “yes we can”.
When this phony got elected I had the same sad, sick feeling in my stomach as when BJ Clinton got elected. I knew in both cases that the lazy and deceived had elected someone who was going to take them to the cleaners. Well, BJ was bad but this character is worse.
52%, there is no forgiveness for you. You should all have to stand in front of a mirror and say, every day for the rest of your lives, “I did my best to destroy my country with my vote.” The only consolation the rest of us have is that most of you get to live with the consequences of your actions.
Obama is probably extremely perplexed as to why the Polish are so upset about their death camps. After all, don’t they know that he thinks they “punch above their weight”? It’s not like he extends that complement to just anybody. [/sarc]
Obama is such a useless clown.
He’s not a actually clown, they have long established professional abilities under their well applied paint…..instead, let’s call the chameleon Obama literally dangerous to our country, a disgrace to our election process, and an embarrassment to those who voted for him, if…a big if, they will just think.
I’m afraid that those same voters will come dangerously close to re-electing him, despite his literally frightful record. They don’t care….they just want to stick it to the Establishment.
Did you hear about the guy who put cordovan on his white bucks?
Shows what happens if you smoke marijuana all through prep school. Or Occidental. Or Columbia. But it is still no excuse for ignorance if you are from Chicago and a former Senator from Illinois, home to a goodly number of people of Polish descent…. For shame.
And this is the smartest president ever in history?? I’d hate to see the dumbest.
Have you guys ever noticed that Obama is kind of a feckless nitwit?
I’m surprised Barky didn’t compliment the Poles on the excellent furniture cleaner they’re known for.
Idiot.
You know who else ought to be ashamed and banned from ever showing his face in public again? That idiot from Newsweek, Evan Thomas, if I’m not mistaken, who was so awed by Obama’s god-like brilliance. And all the other idjuts in the media, too numerous to name, who were awed by this man’s intellectual prowess.
The only thing more shameful than being the Emporor with no clothes…is to be the mindless sycophants praising his radiant garments. A pox on every one of their heads.
Correction…Emperor.
Evan Thomas is a third generation idiot. His grandfather, Norman Thomas, was a Presidential candidate himself SIX times as leader of the Socialist Party.
No records revealed, everything sealed. Telepromptered cyborg. Lincoln weeps; it was all for nothing.
As Teh Won is just a marionette, an empty suit whose strings are pulled by his Chi-Town handlers, I can’t blame him, directly. ABO2012, baby.
That last was said in my very best Telly Savalas voice.
Oh, and given my druthers, I prefer the orange Tootsie-Pops, just because.
Sorry, but I can’t get worked up about the phrase “Polish Death Camp” — a death camp situated in Poland would normally be called a Polish death camp. That doesn’t mean it was initiated by the government of Poland, or that all the people of Poland were involved. It just speaks to where it is located.
Calling them “Polish Death Camps” is akin to describing the Taliban period of rule in Afghanistan as being full of “Afghan atrocities” rather than “Taliban atrocities.”
After all, the atrocities that occurred under the Taliban were in Afghanistan, done to Afghans, so what’s the big deal, right? It just speaks to where it is located.
“Polish death camp” may be an unfair categorization. However, the fact remains that all of the “death camps” built and run by the Nazis were in Poland. There were about 2 million Jews in Poland “processed” there, aside from those shot to death by the Einsatzgruppen. There were additional millions shipped in by rail from the surrounding countries: Hungary, Czechoslovakia, the Balkans, Greece, etc. Why were no such facilities constructed in the vicinity of these countries? Could it be that the local populace was not quite as cooperative as the Poles? It makes no sense to cite most Jews already being in Poland as a reason since, by late 1943, General-gouvernment was already “judenrein” and major “improvements” at Auschwitz were made active in early 1944, just in time for the liquidation of Hungary.
I’ve said it before and I will say it again; the Polish citizenry were the ones most amenable to having the Nazi death machine in their backyards. Their record of pogroms and other officially sanctioned violence against their Jewish communities in the interwar period show that they viewed the killing of Jewish cohorts as a worthy task (tens of thousands known killed from 1918-1939, most of that happening during the post-WW1 civil war). And the behaviors of the commom populace in the postwar period is just a string of indictments from the Kielce pogrom in 1946 to frequent assaults on “March Of The Living” pilgrimages to local bishops, cardinals and lay leaders still sermonizing about “ritual murders” and “Christian blood for matzoh” to this very day. I suspect the count of such perpetrators far outnumbers the “righteous among the nations”.
The Poles may not have built and operated the death camps but history hardly absolves them of what happend in their own country.
Thank you.
So maybe Barry isn’t the smartest guy ever. You know, they speak Austrian in Austria, Falklands/Maldives, 57 states, etc, etc. But he is pretty smart just the same; ranks just behind Soupy Sales. Anyhow, this Polish thing is amusing. The Poles are miffed with this stain on their national honor. Horrors. Truth be told, the history of murderous Polish anti-semitism is common knowedge. Sure, sure, there were some exceptions, however the majority of Poles were happy to eliminate the Jews, and many participiated in the slaughter. The Nazis gave ligitimacy to an endemic blood lust. And it didn’t cease with the defeat of the Nazis, rather it continued after the war was over. I refer you you a slim little book entitled ‘Neighbors’.
So, Carla, you came to the conclusion that the “majority of Poles were happy to eliminate the Jews” after reading one book (which has been shot full of holes by numerous historians over the years, btw)?
My history is a bit rusty, but I seem to recall that Poland was invaded BEFORE the Nazis started slaughtering Jews on an industrial scale there. But you’re right, I’m sure that most of those rotten, anti-semitic Poles were happy to see the Nazis roll through Warsaw since it meant they could FINALLY get rid of these pesky Jews, and, finally achieve what now? Right, legitimacy for their endemic blood lust.
Please tell me you’re not a history teacher…
Perhaps you need to do a bit of historical research. ‘Neighbors’ has been shot full of holes by numerous historians? Really; name two. Please tell me that you’re not Polish. Getting a bit defensive are we?
It’s undestandable Obama made the gaff he did about Polish concentration camps; like most Marxists, he knows little about history. Also, like a true Marxist, he despises Poles because they were the first to throw off the Soviet boot. And they did it peacefully! Obama must look at Poland and ask himself how they could abandon the paradise Stalin created for them in 1945.
Poland has been our staunch ally since the Communist block collapsed; Obama had hardly ejected Churchill’s bust from the Whitehouse when he turned his back on that nation.
There are many Americans of Polish descent, and most Polish families have been here few enough generations to know parents and grandparents who were born in the old country…as my grandfather was.
We’ll remember Obama’s insults and slights on election day…
BTW: My grandfather worked hard as a carpenter all his life, what productive job did Obama ever do?
You didn’t mention use of propaganda against the Polish people, propagating the racist stereotype that Poles are intellectually inferior or have subhuman intelligence, and in particular the creation of Polish “jokes,” which came from Nazi German propaganda that was then pushed ironically by Soviet communist sympathizers in Hollywood. Ridicule was the very effective propaganda tool used to manipulate a population to target a minority for oppression, and this was the “soft way in” to institute a massive level of destruction against this nation, and against its minorities.
I’m not, ever, defending Obama but a couple of notations on this kerfuffle:
Item the First: Why can’t “Polish death camp” simply be a (Nazi) death camp physically located in Poland? Why is that not an accurate phrase?
Item the Second: Although it’s been years since I watched the movie “Shoah” one of the most blood-curdling scenes that sticks with me is of a couple of Polish peasants flashing snaggle-toothed but gleeful grins when asked about the fate of their Jewish neighbors during the war. One of them, while grinning, did a finger slash across his throat. Maybe this was what psychologists refer to as inappropriate smiling, but as I remember the movie, the bottom line message was that a lot of Poles were not too concerned about their Jewish neighbors disappearing because that meant there were a lot of houses and cars and fur coats left behind which could be adopted and given good homes.
I remember Jan Karski also being interviewed in Shoah and *his* memories and words were honest-to-god chilling. But I have to wonder how many ordinary Poles during those years were delighted to find themselves the proud new owners of left-behind Jewish possessions as opposed to how many were like Mr. Karski and risking their lives to get the message out.
And I’m a little disgusted by the caterwauling and flopping around now by Poles … although if it makes That Person look bad, caterwaul a little louder and be my guest to flop all you want to.
I’m no fan of Obama, as anyone who has seen me post here over the years knows, but this is blown way out of proportion.
Not only are the Poles collectively being drama queens about this, they knew very well what he meant. Yes, he has snubbed the Poles on at least a couple of occasions before this, but for the Poles to make their stand on this is ludicrous.
In many ways, these WERE Polish death camps. Half the Jews exterminated in them were Polish. Most of the Jews were rounded up by Poles. Poles were many of the laborers in the camps. And many Jews who somehow managed to survive the war, upon returning to Poland, were massacred in pogroms by Poles.
Sorry Poland; it takes a heckuva lot for me to feel sorry for Obama, but you have managed to do it.