In a stunning and unexpected turn of events, Judge Richard Goldstone has essentially reversed himself on the findings of the Goldstone Report. He does, of course, qualify his remarks to make it appear that he has not reversed himself. What he does, in effect, is to say that if only Israel had cooperated with his investigation from the start, he would not have reached the incorrect conclusions of the now famous and highly influential report. Israel, of course, had quite good reasons to distrust Goldstone, as his report did major damage. But one would rather have Judge Goldstone now blame Israel for his original damaging conclusions than to have him blame Israel for intentionally being the major human rights violator in the Middle East.
Now, Goldstone asserts, “We know a lot more today about what happened in the Gaza war of 2008-09 than we did when I chaired the fact-finding commission.” Poppycock! As Goldstone’s numerous critics pointed out as soon as the report was issued, its many vulnerabilities were known at that very moment. One could look no further than the lengthy and devastating critique by Moshe Halbertal that appeared in The New Republic, or the many commentaries on it by Alan Dershowitz. As Dershowitz wrote at the time: “It is far more accusatory of Israel, far less balanced in its criticism of Hamas, far less honest in its evaluation of the evidence, far less responsible in drawing its conclusion, far more biased against Israeli than Palestinian witnesses, and far more willing to draw adverse inferences of intentionality from Israeli conduct and statements than from comparable Palestinian conduct and statements.”
Mr. Goldstone may prefer that we forget all this, but savvy readers will have no problem finding many sources that pointed to the report’s many flaws in 2009. Nevertheless, it is refreshing to find today that Goldstone now says: “That the crimes allegedly committed by Hamas were intentional goes without saying – its rockets were purposefully and indiscriminately aimed at civilian targets.” As for serious crimes against civilians that resulted from Israeli defensive action, Goldstone now writes that “civilians were not intentionally targeted as a matter of policy” by Israel. The moral equivalence, thankfully, has now disappeared in the judge’s new conclusions. Moreover, where possible violations of human rights were committed by Israel, Goldstone now writes that in one case if an Israeli officer was found to have acted inappropriately, and is “found to have been negligent, Israel will respond accordingly.”
He now argues, perhaps out of guilt or perhaps he decided his critics were correct, that “the purpose of the Goldstone Report was never to prove a foregone conclusion against Israel,” and that the original mandate of the UN Human Rights Council “was skewed against Israel.” Score yet another point for his critics. And, Goldstone adds, Israel “has the right and obligation to defends itself and its citizens against attacks from abroad and within.” He also stresses, although one would be hard pressed to find this in all the press reports about it, that “our report marked the first time illegal acts of terrorism from Hamas were being investigated and condemned by the United Nations.” Rather strange, then, that all the coverage emphasized Israel as the sole villain, and few could find any emphasis in the Report about Hamas and its war crimes.
If they were at all lax, and here again is Goldstone’s attempt to pass the buck, it was because they were not able to “include any evidence provided by the Israeli government,” which did not cooperate with them. Now, he says, Israel has in fact carried out investigations of rights violations in “good faith,” and yes — “Hamas has done nothing.” Surprise, surprise!
As Goldstone admits underhandedly, saying that his critics were correct,
Some have suggested that it was absurd to expect Hamas, an organization that has a policy to destroy the state of Israel, to investigate what we said were serious war crimes. It was my hope, even if unrealistic, that Hamas would do so, especially if Israel conducted its own investigations. At minimum I hoped that in the face of a clear finding that its members were committing serious war crimes, Hamas would curtail its attacks. Sadly, that has not been the case. Hundreds more rockets and mortar rounds have been directed at civilian targets in southern Israel. That comparatively few Israelis have been killed by the unlawful rocket and mortar attacks from Gaza in no way minimizes the criminality. The U.N. Human Rights Council should condemn these heinous acts in the strongest terms.
And later on, he writes that “there has been no effort by Hamas in Gaza to investigate the allegations of its war crimes and possible crimes against humanity.”
Goldstone indeed writes: “In the end, asking Hamas to investigate may have been a mistaken enterprise.” No kidding. It seems it has just occurred to the judge that a terrorist organization committed to destroying Israel cannot, unlike democratic Israel, have any stake in investigating its own human rights violations. Did the judge really not comprehend this in 2009? And as for right now, Judge Goldstone adds that “the Human Rights Council should condemn the inexcusable and cold-blooded recent slaughter of a young Israeli couple and three of their small children in their beds.” Yes, Yes, Yes! What the judge does not say, of course, is that we all know that this will simply not happen. A Council that until recently had Col. Qadaffi’s Libya as a member is not about to do this, despite Goldstone’s recommendation.
Some mea culpas are too little too late. The damage was done and lives will be lost because of him, both Jewish and Palestinian. He has aided and abetted those that wish to demonize not only Israel but to demonize any attempt by a democracy to fight against Islamists terror and extremism. He is not forgiven.
Independent Patriot – My thoughts, exactly.
Goldstone knowingly conducted a flawed investigation in a matter in which millions of lives are at stake. He is culpable in the deaths at Itmar and elsewhere. The State of Israel should indict him on criminal charges.
While this may be satisfying to those of us who knew better all along it will not change a thing. The haters will shrug it off as pressure from the nefarious all powerful Jew lobby as use it as more fuel It is too late now. Israel-war-crimes-gaza is permanently tattood in the collective mind.
Goldstone is guilty of murder no different than a Hamas terrorist.
“Asymmetrical warfare” has led to asymmetrical perceptions and proportion is difficult to come by in this affair.
In the specific case of the rockets flying out of Gaza, the intent to do harm for some reason has come to be associated with the technical inability of those rockets to do pin-point harm.
Why should there be a moral distinctions made between men who can do nothing other than spray bullets in the general direction of a neighborhood and men who use more accurate weaponry to take out the shooters who are unfortunately in among civilians but yet nevertheless must be dealt with?
It is a very difficult situation to be sure but there is a limit to how many rockets a community is going to eat however inaccurate and that community is not going to sit around and wait until the rockets are improved in accuracy so that any response by them can have the moral approval of a world community that is safe in its own neighborhoods.
Attempted murder is still attempted murder and can be dealt with using deadly force. Let’s not confuse intent with inaccurate weapons systems and entirely dole out morality according to murderous competence or lack of it. Men like Norman Finkelstein talk about the Gaza War as if it happened in a vacuum with no moral equivalence; his use of the term ‘massacre’ is ridiculous.
James, your good post here is yet another argument for self-defense. The fact that the argument must often be repeated to libruls is a sad commentary on their inability to absorb common sense.
James: A very salient comment regarding asymetric warfare and socalled “disproportionate” force. You made what many consider either an obvious conclusion, i.e., disproportionate force is unethical, or else what many view as a conundrum into a viable and simple explanation. Simplicity, itself, is a mark of superior thinking. Thanks.
I guess we will see many more “mea culpas” when the grip of the islamic supremacists around the throat of the West will get tighter and tighter.
Too little, too late, after too much damage.
Anyway, it seems to me that some of the elitists are having some doubts about their alliance with the subversive internationalists and with the islamic supremacists. This is good. It has happened already with the discourses AGAINST multicuturalism that have come from Europe…
Maybe the judge got a whiff of some Zyklon B.
And another rube self-identifies.
why isn’t this the leading story on msnbc and cnn…oh wait, that’s right, they are to busy blaming an american for the brutal deaths of ignorant infidels by the “religon of peace”
It doesn’t and didn’t make a bit of difference what the Goldstone report said. Only the weak fail to fully grasp what is the true state of affairs in that part of the world, and the vicious do not care about truth. The fewer “friends” Israel has the better off she will be.
If Sarah Palin really did ask a rhetorical question during her visit to Israel alluding to why Israel apologizes it points to two themes:
One is that in Israel itself there is doubt about the nature of its own history which is natural among a younger population; like America, it is easy to ‘go moral’ once wars for national and personal survival are decided.
The second is that Israel is listening too hard to the West in regard to Western perceptions with its claims of ‘apartheid’ and ‘racism’. The worst of these perceptions arises because of Israel having held on to the West Bank all these years – it is like guessing which door the tiger is behind followed by holding that tiger by the tail.
Israel should be more adept at stating concise and fundamental versions of its own history rather than getting caught up in semantics and false narratives that not only cloud history but the true nature of their opponents; this history is only now starting to be realized by the U.S. although our education is still woefully lacking.
Part of that problem is that it is difficult if not impossible to learn a thing if you are convinced that all people and cultures are, at their heart, the same while at the same time giving betting points to the least competent – that don’t work – Butler University can’t beat the Lakers in basketball no matter what and that is a reality we shouldn’t use arcane and Byzantine methods to change and yet that is what is happening in the West to ‘level’ the playing field – soon it will be so level that I’ll be smushed up against a water pail clutching a copy of the Constitution and under a bench while dwarves are dunking basketballs with a trampoline I invented and gave to them.
It is said that all immigrants are the same and they will all continue the traditions of Europe and America no matter where they come from or what their value systems are – assimilation and osmosis will carry the day and that is the end of the argument – Jeffersonians and astro-physicists will march forth in a couple of generations and endow ethnic neutral libraries, start ethnic neutral colleges and vote in an ethnic neutral way and innovations will continue unabated.
Unfortunately the above describes a different generation of immigrants and bears no resemblance to the current crop. Although the jury is still out to some extent, some argue that what you see in the past and present in the Third World is what you will see in the future.
Although it is true that new immigrants bring their own perspectives, traditions and particular interests to their new homes, never in American history have we had immigrants who show such a monumental cultural disdain for the society of the Federal state already in place and set out to legally and illegally subvert it.
False narratives combined with a type of urban myth are at the heart of the continued agitation by the Palestinian Arabs and their support across the region and have an exact parallel in the U.S.
The original Goldstone Report buys into and furthers these narratives and are an example of moralizing oneself into the ground, using a silver spoon to commit suicide at a knife fight. Meanwhile we in the West continue to believe that all ethnic groups that are not doing as well as European cultures are in that fix because of European cultures and not their own innate incompetence. Those in the Third World caught on to that self-doubt and Constitutional suicide in the West early on and continue to ignore laws when that works and use it against us when that works. In between they use morals and ethics they don’t have but know we do have to use themes such as asylum and hardship to further bludgeon the West into opening doors that should remain shut.
The fact that so much explaining and moralizing is being done under a rain of rockets is proof of how far the West has disconnected itself from reality in favor of a narrative that non-Western cultures are always right about the West and the West is simply always wrong. That would be simple to refute were it not for the fact that so many in the West have bought into it and use bizarre semantics and overly complicated arguments to show that the West indeed is sinful as is its history and that this can only be absolved by exposing our jugular veins to the Third World cultures who still wouldn’t even have a clock were it not for us.
Saying a thing is often the same as a thing being true in the disconnected world of the West and there is a lot being said in the Third World and nothing being shown. One wonders how much longer the West will be enthralled by that non-stop distracting talk as our pockets are picked and we come to believe the simple equation that says that a Westerner who feels pride in culture is a racist while everyone else is somehow looked at with an entirely different metric; what this equals is, The West=no right to cultural hegemony. The Third World=unchallenged right to their cultural hegemony. This is a double standard that disarms us by accusing us of being monstrous racists and bigots by cultures who have no use for or interest in such themes in their own countries.
The Third World kingdoms of the Caliphates, Zulu and Aztec are no more and that is simply a fact that cannot be undone. We should stop apologizing for bringing the Third World kicking and screaming into a modern age and we should do our best to help the Third World in situ instead of wrecking our own civilizations with stupid ideas that can’t see intent even when it is literally blowing up in your face; the Peace Corp has been transformed into ‘stay at my place forever and we’ll try and work it out there’. There is always an excuse associated with our ‘equals’ which is an idea that is self-negating if any Left leaning liberal could ever stop patronizing people of color long enough to see the ‘nice’ version of a KKK hood on their own stupid heads.
Here is my own version of the Goldstone Report: “Someone threw a knife at me and I shot him with a gun.” The End.
“Although it is true that new immigrants bring their own perspectives, traditions and particular interests to their new homes, never in American history have we had immigrants who show such a monumental cultural disdain for the society of the Federal state already in place and set out to legally and illegally subvert it.”
What has been forgotten or was never understood is that republics are different from states that develop from ethnicities. A republic is a state created by an act of will and is based on a fundamental set of concepts. Newcomers and children must be taught the reasons for the state’s founding and the concepts that underpin its institutions and must be required to agree to those concepts before citizenship is granted. A democratic republic with free speech cannot function unless its citizens are fundamentally aligned with the republic’s rationale and disagree about the *methods* of attaining the republic’s goals not the validity of the state. A republican state that does not have this kind of disciplined, active citizenry risks degenerating into a tyranny since that is the only way to keep order.
Tribalism is not exactly a recipe for peaceful coexistence, to say nothing of serving as the basis for a fair and economically successful country, either.
James: I reside in a Yishuv in Gush Etzion. Believe me, the Yeshuveem in Judea and Samaria are under no illusion about who are our enemies, both externally and internally. There is a purposeful outlook here, a belief in our own destiny and our own rights. We are the backbone of this nation, the places where our ancient prophets and elders dwelled.
“So I, for one, thank Judge Richard Goldstone for his going public to help minimize the damage to Israel that he and his report have already produced.”
And I, for one, believe you to be dangerously naive to thank Goldberg for his admission, two years too late, that he drove a coach and horses through the law and brought it into disrepute and did irreparable damage to his people’s reputation in the world, and to Israel’s standing in the world.
The damage from the Goldstone report has already been done, as others up thread have written. Having published the report and said those things he cannot unsay them as if they had never been said.
I, for one, do not trust such a one to keep faith and I keep on asking myself “Why now?” and what’s in it for him.
Goldstone knew exactly what he was doing and made no attempt at objectivity.
He is a disgrace.
Goldstone’s report was a vile slander against an entire nation delivered with malice aforethought and the Judge’s current attempt to walk it back is a cover-up. In any event, the damage is done and the Judge’s regrets, sincere or otherwise, will not undo it.
Judge Goldstone is a careerist Jewish degenerate who supported, substantiated and amplified blood libels against his own endangered kind for another inch up the greasy pole. The man is lower than whaleshit.
“Judge Goldstone is a careerist Jewish degenerate who supported, substantiated and amplified blood libels against his own endangered kind for another inch up the greasy pole. The man is lower than whaleshit.”
I agree 100 percent with you. This should also include Desmund Tutu – a silly, insincere and ridiculous man. An abomination.
I am just an ordinary man, but how these people be taken seriously is beyond my comprehension.
Why does the State of Israel even allow people like this to enter their country?
To David V,..”Why does Israel let these men into their country”?
Because they’re always trying to make Peace…they’re always trying to be the “good guy’s” in world opinion,instead of just Kicking butt!Strength is the only thing the Middle East understands,…not weakness!!
The damage has already been done. Lies and propaganda repeated often enough become belief. Why all the negative adds (often untrue) during an election? SAME REASON Arab countries are masters of this victim mentality and it is time the west wakes up.
Did the Goldstone report turn Israel supports into Israel haters? I don’t think any opinions actually have changed about Israel in 30 years…
Strong article Ron
So, Palestinian witnesses told their lie, and they stuck with it. And Goldstone stuck with them and their lie, even there was plenty on which to question the veracity of “Palestinian witnesses” all during the time since the event, and up to the publication of the Goldstone Report, but now Goldstone is having a few second thought about the palestinians and their lie.
How many times have I heard someone who has erred and refuses to accept responsibility for being wrong say “I had hoped….” Know what? I don’t give fig for what you hoped, you made a mistake, or, you did it purposely thinking that the tide was with you. For whatever reason, you blew it. Admit it. Do what you can to atone.
“I had hoped….” What a joke.
Those of us who follow the domestic US Jewish political scene should bear in mind J Street’s support for the Goldstone report and for Goldstone himself when he came to the U.S.
I’m mildly curious as to what caused him to write this but too little, too late. He cannot possibly be surprised at Hamas’s actions (and lack of actions) or the impact his report was going to have on the world and perception of Israel.I personally find his apology worthless…and I find him the same.
Mr. Radosh is an honest and decent man, but I think he shouldn’t be so forgiving – Richard Goldstone simply doesn’t deserve it. There’s no question that Judge Goldstone is backpedaling now, but I suspect his motive for doing so aren’t altruistic at all. Goldstone (and Radosh quite correctly states it!) knew perfectly well that he was stabbing Israel in the back, but he did it anyway. Clearly, Goldstone expected to be handsomely rewarded for his work by his masters at the UN; obviously, he’s been disappointed, and that must explain his sudden and quite insincere mea culpas.
There is an old tale of a man who went about spreading falsehoods about a local Rabbi. After his stories spread, the man came to his senses and realized he had done the Rabbi a great injustice. He sought out the Rabbi, asked his forgiveness, and pleaded what he could do to correct the damage from his lies.
The Rabbi answered, “Take a feather pillow, cut it open, and scatter the feathers to the winds.” The man thought this was a rather odd request, but easy enough to do. After fulfilling the request, the man went back to the Rabbi, told him that he had gladly done what was requested.
The Rabbi then said, “Now, go find and gather all of the feathers”
The man, shocked at the Rabbi’s words said, “But Rabbi, that is impossible for me, or anyone to do. You told me to release them into the winds, and I did. I will never be able to find them.
The Rabbi then spoke, “Because you can no more make amends for the damage your words have done than you can recollect the feathers.”
Words are much like arrows. When let them fly through the air with the intent to kill, they can’t be called back. Judge Goldstone has done irreparable, disastrous harm to the State of Israel, and Jews, worldwide. People will die from his words.
One day he will face what he has done before a far Greater Judge.
J’Accuse. Now and then, nothing has changed. This guy would would throw in the Zyklon-B if given a chance.
Why did Goldstone decide to rescind his report now, after the damage has been done? Was he after the Mann Booker prize for fiction?
Crusader,
As an analogy, throwing in the Zyklon-B is pretty much what Goldstone has done.
I am firmly in the camp that his apology is in need of TEETH. My suggestion is below. Let’s see if he puts his money where is mouth is.
http://wwwtwosetsofbooks.blogspot.com/2011/04/one-thing-we-need-most-from-richard.html
Goldstone was not alone. His partners were Professor Christine Chinkin, Professor of International Law at the London School of Economics and Political Science, who was a member of the High Level Fact Finding Mission to Beit Hanoun (2008); Yes, the same LSE now trying to desperately back away from connection to Gadaffis money
Ms. Hina Jilani, Advocate of the Supreme Court of Pakistan and former Special Representative of the Secretary General on Human Rights Defenders, who was a member of the International Commission of Inquiry on Darfur (2004); Pakistan does not recognise Israel.
and Colonel Desmond Travers, a former officer in the Irish Armed Forces and member of the Board of Directors of the Institute for International Criminal Investigations (IICI).
As Jilani, Travers and Chinkin all begun the inquiry with statements indicating their minds were made up before one line of evidence was gathered I don’t think we will be seeing a mea culpa from them in the near future.
Good point. As usual, the Jew apologises – the non-Jews quietly leave the arena with no apology and with their egos intact.
It also would not surprise me if Goldstone was unduly influenced by the attitude of his cohorts. I had not known that he was one of a group in the “investigation’. ie Israel-blaming exercise, since he was the only one mentioned at least in the articles I read.
It does not trouble me. The world has been condemning us for the sin of inventing, or consolidating, ‘conventional morality’, since time immemorial. And will continue to do so.
What interests me more is what I, as a Jew in the land and state of Israel, can do to honor this tradition and make a contribution to Jews (and non-Jews) despite this hatred. Goldstone and friends are not even footnotes in history. The Israeli children growing up in a climate of love and acceptance points to a society vastly different than people like this imagine it to be. That is enough for me.
He hoped? HE HOPED? On what grounds, I ask? He gave none. He says he hoped Hamas would police itself in the area of violence and war crimes, and is disappointed they did not.
What a JERK! WHAT AN IDIOT!
How do men like this end up in charge of anything?
sigh.
Actually, he is now trying to rehabilitate his reputation after having completely sold the Jews down the river. He has so few grounds on which to perform this rehab, he has to satisfy himself with “I had hoped”.
As Tom Lantos used to say, “I DOAN BUY EET”.
Guy’s… PLEASE STOP calling the Arabs,”Palestinians”.They are either Israeli’s or Arabs,(whether muslim or Christians)if they CHOOSE not to be part of Israel.
Before 1948 the JEWS were the PALESTINIANS & the Arabs living in Palestine were highly insulted if you called them “Palestinians”…they were Arabs,mostly from Syria & Jordan,which would make them “SYRIANS & JORDANIANS.
My Jewish friend’s birth certificate says Palestinian because she was born before 1948.
The Jews have ALWAYS been willing to live in peace with all who lived in what was “Palestine” & even GAVE them part of the land they got,which is JORDAN.”Palestine” DID NOT “belong” to the Jews OR the Arabs but the BRITISH.
AND it IS NOT some “ancient homeland for Arabs”.Most of them can’t even PRONOUNCE “P” so WHY would they have called themselves something that CAN’T EVEN SAY?!Arafat used to say “Ballestinian” & even Anwar Sadat.It was the ITALIANS(Romans) who brutally TOOK the land & named it “New Philistia”to mock the Jews & tell them “WE are the new Phillistines in town”.
You gotta wonder how the man can look at himself in the mirror in the morning. My guess is he knows he will too soon be looking the his Maker in the eyes and the thought terrifies him. Yes I know I am assuming he has a conscious.
Goldstone wants to wash his own sins off his own back. This is selfishness akin to the deathbed confession of a Nazi.
The Nazi wants to cleanse his conscience so HE can die in peace. He cannot bring back the lives of those who died due to his past actions. It’s all about his own internal peace – not about honesty. If he had a soul, he could NEVER have internal peace.
Goldstone, a Jew, is a TRAITOR to Jews. How many Jews in Israel have died because Goldstone emboldened HAMAS as he libelled Israel?
Maybe Goldstone has a soul, but he is guilty of the crimes of libel and treason and more than deserving of whatever punishment befalls him.
Goldstone, you make me want to throw up.
DISAPPEAR, Goldstone. DISAPPEAR!
the introduction written by Archbishop Emeritus of Cape Town Desmond Tutu, who wrote that Israel’s “misconduct” was an example of “reckless, even deliberate, destruction of life and property”
The bigoted hypocrite who has been running around the US with the Sabeel group pushing the Anglican Church’s Replacement Theology from before Gaza and trashing Israelis as Arafat and his thugs trashed Christians in the West Bank.
So many times, when reading histories of the 20th century, I gnashed my teeth and said to myself “Didn’t they see what was happening?!!?? How could they let this happen?!!??” Now I begin to understand. I see perfectly well how political correctness has lead people to do things that are not only promoting peace and the greater well-being of the planet, it is actively leading to decisions which will destroy this our culture. I see it happening, but other than staying informed, blogging, making myself unpopular at dinner parties, and emailing my representatives in D.C. (ha!) what else can a person do??? Once it is too late, the bleeding-hearts will say “Oh, we didn’t know THAT was going to happen…. and you know, our intentions were good……” But by that time it will be too late. I also think Goldstone is a toad, but at least he changed his mind.
Liberalism is a mental disorder.
“What he does, in effect, is to say that if only Israel had cooperated with his investigation from the start, he would not have reached the incorrect conclusions of the now famous and highly influential report.”
Probably true to some extent. On one hand, Israel refuses to cooperate; on the other, it bemoans the fact that it is losing the PR war. But even Goldstone’s reversal – better late than never – is not likely to have a decisive effect on the nightmare scenario that is developing at the UN, which is largely concerned with the West Bank.
This Judge Goldstone, a former commercial lawyer, has quite a resume. He has honors and kudos and praise from the world over. What he lacks, apparently, is honesty.
I think we see in Judge Goldstone the liberal mindset that it’s perfectly acceptable to lie because (at least in his mind) he’s on the “right side” of the issue.
I wonder if the judge would accept that doctrine if a lawyer or witness appearing in his court used the same reasoning.
If Goldstone really recanted, he needs to be tested for dementia. He is trying to win a Noeble Peace Prize, just like his self promoting countryman, Desmond Mobutu Tutu
Personally I can never forgive Goldstone- he is an admitted LIAR so why would I think he is being sincere in his apology? Maybe Hashem will forgive him, I hope he rots in hell.
The lies he willingly wrote and now denies, proves he is a traitor- Israel should never allow him into the country- all Jews and people of decency should SHUN him. He turnned his back on Jews, like many who think they can buy their way out of being hated for being a Jew, by aiding their enemy.
Way too little and way too late- damage is done
the truth died and the MYTH lives- it cannot be undone- no rewind on reality.
This MYTh has been widely circulated and used and is now the substitute for truth.
Goldstone needs to open the book to Esther
Esther 4:12-14 “Do not think that because you are in the king’s house you alone of all the Jews will escape. For if you remain silent at this time, relief and deliverance for the Jews will arise from another place, but you and your father’s family will perish. And who knows but that you have come to royal position for such a time as this?”
Goldstone caved in to unrelenting pressure – hence the truth of the report – that Israel is murderous with a history going back to pre-1948 of terrorism (the Irgun, the Stern Gang, etc…) is nothing new. Going through the brazenly biased and/or ignorant and/or intellectually dishonest and/or rationalized remarks above – I’m not expecting people to live what I have to say – even if it is the truth which clearly Zionists won’t accept.
I’m an Orthodox Jew – let me be clear – Zionism is NOT Judaism in any sense or twisting of the religion. It is a movement which has hijacked the religion to justify anything and everything to control the land of Israel. One has to suspend all reality and be completely intellectually dishonest to ignore the obviousness of the killing of innocent men, woman and children by the Zionists and the abject poverty the Palestinians are forced to live in. The above comments are unfortunately examples of the people that are willing to rationalize anything, like Zionists, in order to support this kind of inhumanity – perhaps borne out of a well accepted anti-Arab attitude in the US.
A Jew cannot support Zionism – unfortunately I’ve seen many who realize the wrong, but can’t bring themselves to accept it and struggle with Zionism. Plain and simple, there is not struggling with Zionism – it was almost universally condemned by ALL Orthodox Jewish leaders pre-1948 and now is condemned by the most religious, unfortunately not as clearly or outspokenly in the past. Zionism is NOT Judaism. It is more than unfortunate that people in the US are ignorant or buy into the nonsense that Israel is just defending itself – they are the provocateurs and have always been – the Palestinians are of course desperate and angry – no surprises there. Get rid of the State of Israel and Zionism and Jews and Palestinians will live together in peace, as they had done prior to the late 19th century founding of Judaism.
Make no mistake, being Jewish doesn’t force me to suspend my understanding of right and wrong – Zionism forces me to express how counter it is to Jewish beliefs – if, for no other reason, then to inform a population who are bombarded with Zionist propaganda here in the US – what reality is. Zionists are in it for the land and control – period – it is has NOTHING to do with Judaism or protecting people. Endless books, articles, videos online – by Jews and non-Jews – make all of this clear – from both a religious and non-religious (basic humanity) perspective. But if someone chooses to ignore the obvious or simply accepts the US view and is completely ignorant to the whole subject – this is how Zionism is able to continue existing. If you really care to be honest – look into the subject of Zionism and what it’s done – 1000′s of innocent Palestinians have been killed as well as dozens of US military (look up the USS Liberty attack) as well as Sephardic Jews (yes – Jews killed by Zionists) as well as their dealing with the Nazi’s per-1948 (read Perfidy – this isn’t some crackpot conspiracy nonsense, a well documented and known book written by Ben Hecht, the playwright – a pro-Zionist – disgusted with what he uncovered – resulting in a major court case in Israel in the 1960′s – this book which documented the whole case was banned in Israel). This is the true face of Zionism.
oh look we got a Naturei Karta or a Muslims trying to pretend to be a JEW
maybe a David Duke fan
nice try- no cigar
Not even a nice try. MarkS states, “Get rid of the State of Israel and Zionism and Jews and Palestinians will live together in peace, as they had done prior to the late 19th century founding of Judaism.”
Judaism is approximately 4,000 years old. It is the oldest religion to practice the belief in one god. Any Jew, let alone an Orthodox Jew would know this.The first Jew, Avrohom Ovinu ( Abraham, our father), lived 4,000 years ago. ..The Torah was given to Moshe Rabbeinu ( Moses) approximately 3,315 years ago. Our holiday of Shavuos commemorates Matan Torah, HaShem’s giving of the Torah to the world.
MarksS is not Jewish, let alone Orthodox. He’s not even a Naturei Karta- they would at least know how old Judaism is.
“Israel’s murderous with a history going back before 1948?” I guess he forgot about the Arab riots in Jerusalem in 1929……Or, when Jordan attacked and slaughtered the Jews in the eastern section of Jerusalem, taking their homes, and even using the tombstones from the Jew’s cemeteries to pave the Jordanian army’s latrines during their 19 year occupation.
He has also forgot about the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem who not only met with Hitler, but gave Hitler the idea to make the Jews wear those yellow Maagen Davids (Jewish stars) on their clothing. He fails to state that this was a centuries old, Muslim tradition against the Jews who once lived in Muslim land that the Nazis adopted.
No, MarkS is not Jewish. He’s just your garden variety anti-semite, and he fails miserably at his attempt at historical revisionism. I rate him a 0 for lack of Credibility, and a 0 for Creative Writing ( he’s not very original, is he?)
Truth is the first casuality of war, and this war began in 1947-48. The Goldstone report is simply another lie, piled atop a reeking mountain of lies, which burden this blood soaked land. His report is irrelevant to erudite people. What is notable is the organization which sponsored it, the UN, and specifically the UN Human Rights Commission, currently convened by some of the greatest monsters who foul the dirt they walk on. But perhaps things are changing for the better; the young may have hope, for the first time in generations.
i note it in Aljazeera, the creature of wealthy Emir of Qatar. There is a birthing of freedom within Islam, and the decades old lies are no longer believable even among hate filled Muslims. A biased press does not know how to slant the news. Freedom demands a fierce grip on truth, and that is not easy, as demonstrated in every fractious democracy, i.e. Israel, or the USA. The new fact, which is revolutionizing Islam, is the open, exploding, pandemic cry that the Great Satan is an Arab, not a Jew, not a Yank. Thus all sorrows, and evils may not flow from Zionism. This is new.
Peace is not possible without truth. It is a start.
Judge Goldstone is a coward who for personal convenience has decided to officially condone the hateful crimes of the Zionists and has helped insure that the Palestinians will continue to live under apartheid conditions.
How was Israel’s Gaza operation “disproportionate,” and Shock and Awe was not? How was Israel’s Gaza operation “disproportionate,” and Tora Bora was not?
How was Israel’s Gaza operation “disproportionate,” and Obama’s and Sarkozy’s Libyan operation not?
Which operation was meant to defend the existence of a nation and which were not?
There is one answer to it. There was only one operation that was absolutely necessary to conclude for a nation’s defense.
The others were obligatory, a choice, but not necessary. Gaza had no choice.
Moreover, what would a proportionate response achieve? What would the world ask Israel to do that would be “fair” in their eyes? That it respond “proportionately” and do as HAMAS did?
That it launch 8000 unguided missiles at Gaza’s civilian population?
We now know that the world’s “eye” are lying eyes. Don’t we?
This article makes good points about what has really happened. But I think it foolish to celebrate being on the side of a war which fights the least effectively.
When attacked, sensible people should be in favor of at least as disproportionately great retaliation as is sufficient to: (a) suitably punish the actual militants AND their civilian enablers in as short order and with the least friendly casualties as possible; and (b) deter future attacks by all current and potential enemies. It must be remembered that war is hell, and is won when one side kills enough of the other side as to induce unconditional surrendor, and a collective surrendor so deeply rooted in the surviving populace as to endure for generations to come.
When not attacked, sensible people should be in favor of our governments minding our own business. Individuals who want to involve themselves in other nations’ troubles can do so to their hearts’ content, privately and without their neighbors’ involuntary assistance compelled at the gun point of their governments.
This is the u8sual political dance. Goldstone’s people probably need Jewish support in an upcoming election or for the war in Libya or something else and suddenly they have a change of heart. Watch which Jewish organizations are the quickest to celebrate. When Obama ran for President he found plenty of Jewish organizations to talk in front of who were then “convinced” he was pro-Israel. Its a charade and when they no longer need Jewish numbers he will be back kicking Israel again and this time touting his “fairness”. Its not the report or UN that does damage its willingness to take it seriously that is the problem.
That this scum is affraid to burn his bridges to the Jewish communities is a result of Israel`s friends who prevent his justification.The worst of this case is the lack of mass Jewish condemnation of the traitor that predicts the new traitors` appearance.
As I was saying…
http://andrewsullivan.thedailybeast.com/2011/04/if-i-had-known-then-.html?cid=hp:mainpromo4
“Goldstone caved in to unrelenting pressure”
Yep, da Joooooos are so rich and powerful – they control the UN, the MSM, the Europeans, unlike the poor oppressed Arabs who have nothing except trillions of dollars of oil wealth.
“I’m an Orthodox Jew” Right, like the “lifelong conservatives” and “Goldwater supporters” who just *had* to vote for BO in 2008.
“Jews and Palestinians will live together in peace, as they had done prior to the late 19th century founding of Judaism”
LOL, kinda gives the game away, don’t it? Believe it or not, Judaism is more than 120 years old.
Better late than never!!..the saying goes. But in this case it may be a bit too late. The damage has been done. And i think the worse damage of all is the virulent and illogical armament given to leftists within and without Israel. They will never come up to a mea culpa. The ultimate danger to Israel’s existence will not come from its persistent enemies…but from “friends” from within.