Sunday Thoughts: Rethinking the End of the World, a Conversation With Dr. Matthew Halstead, Part 1

I recently had the privilege of having a conversation with one of my favorite Bible scholars, Dr. Matthew Halstead. I first became acquainted with him through his appearances on the late Dr. Michael Heiser's Naked Bible Podcast, and then I discovered his podcast, The Bible Unmuted.

Dr. Halstead is an engaging scholar who digs deep into God's Word but does so in a way that someone who isn't a seminary student will understand. I'm particularly enjoying the series on Romans on his podcast.

His latest book is “The End of the World as You Know It: What the Bible Really Says about the End Times (And Why It’s Good News),” and it's an encouraging look at the New Testament book of Revelation and other biblical prophecies about the end times. This refreshing take on eschatology is grounded in what these prophecies meant for the original readers, which is also what they should mean for us today. Here's the first part of our conversation:

Chris Queen: Let’s start with your best summary of the book.

Dr. Matthew Halstead: I really think the book is best captured with the title: “The End of the World as You Know It: What the Bible Really Says about the End Times (And Why It’s Good News).”

I think a summary would be that we need to change how we view the end of the world. We know that the end of the world as we know it needs to be adjusted because oftentimes people think about the end of the world in very negative terms. And I think it's because they have, arguably, non-biblical views about judgment in that we think of judgment in terms of the negative aspect, and there is a negative aspect. I mean, we think of like hell and things like that, but actually, biblically speaking, judgment just means setting the world right again. And for those who love Jesus and want God and want to follow Him, that's really good news.

CQ: What made you decide that now was the time to write a book about eschatology?

MH: Well, the book sort of just happened. So in 2020, there were lots of different things we were seeing on social media about eschatology and some Bible verses used in ways that I didn't think were either appropriate or right, and these were people, by the way, who are very sincere in their faith. These are not enemies of God, so I just had a passion to want to help guide people to think through those texts.

And so what I did was, I just wrote a couple of articles, and the two articles became a book. And so at the time, the book was more of a response to some of the eschatological fervor that I was seeing. And that's been happening quite a bit recently. It's happened through many generations in the past. So our time isn't unique, but it seems ripe for something like this.

CQ: Why have people been so obsessed with trying to figure out so many of the details surrounding the Bible’s apocalyptic prophecies?

MH: That's a good question. I think it’s because maybe psychologically, we just feel that we need to know the details about everything. You know, I think none of us like instability. None of us like flirting with chance. We like to construct our future so that it can be nice and tidy.

And unfortunately, many of the Bible’s passages about the end times are not all that clear, I think by design. But as a people, we're not always content with a mystery. So we're trying to tame God's plans in a way that we can comprehend them. And that's not always helpful.

CQ: I'm going to set up this next question with a personal story. When I was in fifth grade, I was in a Sunday school class where the guy who was teaching it took us through Revelation. Why he thought taking a bunch of fifth- and sixth-grade boys through Revelation was a good idea, I'll never know. He was in the military, so everything he saw in every part of the prophecies was military-related. He interpreted everything through that lens. What is it about these passages and books of the Bible that make them so ripe for misinterpretation?

MH: Yeah, part of it goes back to just the part when there's mystery. We fill in the gaps, and the way we fill in the gaps is based on our own experiences. And I think, you know, a lot of times you know, like if you live in the West, you live in America, say, that's my context. That's the only context I know.

We live pretty comfortable lives, and so we're genuinely shocked by those times when we either hear of really bad things happening in the world or we experience bad things happening to us. And because we live such comfortable lives, that's the default note, and it lists those trials and tribulations that sometimes come.

It shocks us, and so in order to make sense of those because we live such lives of comfort, we have to eschatologize, if that's a word. We have to do that, and it gives us meaning and gives the trial meaning in our lives.

And so because we have false assumptions about eschatology, we immediately associate that with the final events, and that's why I think people often do that. And I think there are ways to cope with the trials that we're going through, but speculating about things like the final events is not that most healthiest way. In fact, it could be quite damaging to people.

CQ: Why is there so much fear surrounding the end times?

MH: I think there's a million ways I can answer this. I think it goes back to the whole judgment. We don't understand what judgment means in Scripture. And I think also, we — let's just go down this route — I think it’s because we live such comfortable lives. We don't want anything to interrupt that. And so that creates fear and panic.

I remember when I was a kid hearing a lot about the end times and the rapture and things like that. And I remember thinking, “Man, I want to grow up and have a family before that happens. I want to live life before that happens.”

I think that's part of why people are afraid because they don't want their lives interrupted, and I think once we put ourselves in the shoes of, say, the original readers of Revelation, we see that they did not have a default mode of comfortable living. They were going through very deep trials, and they were longing for an interruption in their lives like that. And so, because their posture was much different than ours, they could look at the end times with a different perspective than those of us who live quite comfortable eyes.

I think it's actually an indictment, if you will, about how we should live as Christians, especially those of us living in comfortable spaces of the world. I think we should take seriously the whole “Take up your cross and follow me” a little bit more than we do. Because if heaven looks to be like a bad interruption in our other otherwise healthy, comfortable lives, then maybe we need to readjust our comfortable lives a little bit.

CQ: What are some of the most common overarching misconceptions about the Bible’s end-time prophecies?

MH: I think one big one is that it's all about us. I think that's a big one, so my view of the end times passages of Scripture, Revelation, and whatnot, is that it does apply to us. It does speak to us. I have a high view of Scripture. I think anybody who knows me would say that about me, so I think it's God's word to us today.

But I think the mistake that we make is that we forget that it was also God's word to the first century. And so we really cannot apply it faithfully to today until we understand the ways it was meant and applied in the first century as well. I mean, that's part of the original horizon of understanding the original context of Revelation, and we need to deal with that more than we do.

Stay tuned for the second part of our conversation next week, where we discuss some of the specific misconceptions that Christians have about the end times.

You can find “The End of the World as You Know It: What the Bible Really Says about the End Times (And Why It’s Good News)” on Amazon, but I recommend the edition from Logos Bible Software because it includes direct links to the scriptures the book references. Check out Logos and get a great deal on it here.