Grown Men Don’t Read Comic Books: Here’s an Alternative (That Might Just Save America)
If you think I was too harsh on Christmas and families and Christmas-with-families last week, consider this:
On one of these recent holiday outings, I was obligated to spend three painful hours with a young man who:
* Was wearing boardshorts and flip-flops (in December).
* Didn’t greet us when we arrived or say goodbye when we left.
* First whine-ily refused to eat dinner, then, with a heavy sigh, slammed some food on a plate and went back to watching a Home Alone marathon, leaving the rest of us, including his elderly grandmother, at the dining room table. (“He’s busy downloading some computer games,” his mother meekly explained.)
* Was completely silent for the entire evening — except twice: First, he sprang to life at the mention of The Hobbit and lectured us about those 44 frames per second. (“If you can’t handle 3D, stay home.”)
* Second, when my husband mentioned our new favorite burger joint, the kid piped up that it was “s*it” because they “serve American cheese.” (Had the same cheese been called “Tibetan,” I guarantee he’d have asked for two slices.)
Now some of your are saying:
“Kathy, it sounds like you were a pretty petulant, taciturn teenager, too. Give the boy a break!”
Oh, sorry:
Did I forget to mention this “boy” is 33 years old?
At that “boy’s” age, Jesus had risen from the dead.
This unemployed man-child lives with his mommy and daddy and can barely rise from the couch.
And when I was his age, I’d faced a much worse recession straight out of college — he’s recently graduated (again), this time from (you’ll never guess) journalism school! — and I still managed to get (and keep) a job.
Along with a revolving cast of irresponsible, eccentric roommates, I also lived in an uninsulated, illegal apartment out beyond the last eastbound streetcar stop, with a leaky roof and a mouse-infested couch. (You could feel them running back and forth under your butt…)
And I’d have lived in a bus shelter rather than move back “home.”
You don’t need me to add that this “kid” I’ve been talking about is a big science-fiction fan who reads comic books, do you?
(Sorry: graphic novels. Yeah, I know: Maus won the Pulitzer Prize. That was twenty years ago.)
I’ve said it before: Science-fiction fans, “graphic novel” readers, and computer-game addicts rarely amount to anything, despite (or because of) the man-hours they waste fantasizing about heroic adventures.
You’d think with all that non-stop inspiration, these “men” would be resourceful, honorable, accomplished individuals.
They aren’t, of course. Their brains are crammed with useless information about plastic toys and make-believe aircraft.
They’ve never watched a movie older than Star Wars and don’t read books that aren’t franchise tie-ins.
They think old Twilight Zone plots are profound. They cultivate narcissistic food-related affectations and other neurotic First World “problems.”
They’re boors and they’re bores.
And everyone reading this knows at least one of these “kids.” They are legion.
“Men” like this are funny and cute in movies like The 40-Year-Old Virgin.
In real life, these lazy, unambitious, cowardly boys — I call them “unmanned drones” — are a threat to national security and America’s future — one that may only be altered if we rediscover America’s past.
Thanks to Glenn Beck’s contagious enthusiasm, more and more Americans have been rediscovering their own history.
I may be just a lowly Canadian, but I didn’t have much rediscovering to do.
It’s the eternal refrain of every Canadian schoolkid: “Our history is SO boring compared to the Americans’!” And we’re right.
What kind of national slogan is “Peace, order and good government”?
Official campaigns to get us excited about our own story merely emphasized our comparative mediocrity (and carried a whiff of that knee-jerk anti-Americanism that too many Canadians cultivate).
Check it out: Jackie Robinson played in Montreal for one whole season!! Look! The guy who co-invented Superman lived in Toronto as a kid!!
Those corny commercials couldn’t compete with Schoolhouse Rock segments about the Revolution. (I can still recite the Preamble.)
We read Johnny Tremain in Grade Seven (for some reason), and that cemented my fascination with U.S. history.
As I got older, it was impossible not to reach the same conclusion as so many had before me:
That Providence had surely had a hand in the creation of our neighbor to the south.
How else to explain those stirring documents like the Declaration of Independence that seem almost divinely inspired?
And what are the odds that so many extraordinary men — Washington, Jefferson, Franklin — all “happened” to be in the same place at the same time, and were all willing to commit treason and risk certain death for a cause they believed in?
Looking for a superhero? Try your first president.
He was called “the Indispensable Man,” and those who told fibs to boost his reputation — all that “cherry tree” stuff — wasted their time.
George Washington’s real life doesn’t need embellishment to inspire.
Ruthlessly self-disciplined even as a boy, Washington held himself to staggeringly high standards.
He’d return from battle, his clothing pitted with bullet holes — yet he’d sustained not a single injury.
Washington could’ve been crowned the king of his new nation, but famously turned down the job.
And don’t panic, Millennials: He even had a “dark” side, just like Batman!
“Self-improvement” was a mania among the Founding Fathers and others who lived in their time, as part of that whole “pursuit of happiness” thing.
They were dedicated to almost-forgotten concepts like honor and duty, although a very modern goal — fame – was something they thought a great deal about too.
Surely one’s time is better spent learning about, and from, these extraordinary men than killing one more imaginary, two-dimensional zombie?
(Hint: Like shooting? Learn to use a real firearm!)
I expect to hear from more than a few men that their incentive to better themselves, and thereby attract a marriageable young woman, is non-existent.
Between the easy availability of porn, the high cost of divorce, and the reported paucity of non-slutty, non-shallow females on the market, why bother?
A “life” wasted debating the niceties of the “Prime Directive” with other male geeks is, when viewed from that perspective, actually quite rational.
Which is why I’ll be picking on my fellow females in my next installment…
Updated: Grown Women Don’t Read Twilight: Here’s an Alternative (That Just Might Save America)
****
Previously from Kathy Shaidle:
What an absolutely lame article. It has all kinds of false equivalences and stereotypes of the worst sort. Guess what? I’ve read more on the Founders and political philosophy than this lady probably ever has. I’m also extremely polite and friendly. But in my freetime I will sometimes play video games, read comic books, or watch sci-fi/fantasy movies. The horror!
I wonder what instapundit Glenn Reynolds (one of the core PJmedia bloggers and a huge sci-fi fan) thinks of this garbage?
Would you like some Tibetan cheese to go with your whine?
Just because you don’t see the use in geeky pursuits and hobbies doesn’t mean that everyone who enjoys them is automatically a loser. I’ve known an equal number of losers who are into all the trendy pop culture things of the day.
Loserism and basement dwelling are a mindset and not a result of your hobbies.
Husband happens to be into all kinds of geeky things and is a very successful corporate career man. Not only that, but he knows of a good number of geeky folks at his workplace. None of them are in the basement because they play video games or like fantasy and sci-fi. In fact, they’re earning a very good living at multi-national firm. Heck, my husband is even a *gasp* RPG gamer at times and is working on his own system in his off time, but it hasn’t made him a basement troll. We’ve even gone to gamer cons like GenCon, but we aren’t social lepers.
And we put in our time living in the craphole apartment just after getting married with the one working drain where we carted our dishwater to the curb and a sewer that sometimes backed up into our bathroom sink. We’ve never lived with our parents after setting out independent (he started out independent with just $50 and bicycle).
I can tell you have nothing but contempt for geeky things, but I’ll bet that more people than you think, possibly even some people you know, are closet geeks.
I think I get where she’s coming from, though, and there’s perhaps a bit of the converse fallacy in your argument: all people who are alcoholics drink alcohol, but not all people who drink alcohol are alcoholics. The man-boys she’s writing about have existed in every generation; this is just this generation’s version. Perhaps they are attracted to these pursuits because they are places where manly pursuits are not (yet) frowned upon. However, if they think of themselves as men simply because they can recite all the ring-charging oaths of all the Green Lanterns, they are very much mistaken.
(None of this is to say that I’m dismissing the magnitude of the problem. While all generations have had man-boys, this generation seems to have a hugely out-of-proportion number of them.)
I’m wating for the next installment to see how Kathy ties it all together.
“All people who are alcoholics drink alcohol, but not all people who drink alcohol are alcoholics.” Exactly. Most sci-fi fans I know used the stories for jumping off into philosophy and classics and now use the common pop culture knowledge to talk about life’s big questions. See comment 25, for example. Most sci-fi fans I know are also women. Of late, I’ve annoyed many a geek for pointing this out because they think I’m perpetuating a stereotype of girl fans instead of fighting against one about boy fans. Anyway, Kathy has over-generalized, but the man-boys she describes, they exist, though they aren’t quite as socially inept as suggested. And I’d agree that there are more man-boys now than in the past.
I would strike the “SF Fan” part of your argument. Quite to the contrary, serious SF fans tend to work in some of the most cutting-edge fields in the world I am one such, and I know I damned certain have).
But to go along with your argument, serious SF fans seem to not really read comic books nor play video games.
Your point is correct. Actually, SF led many people to become successful scientists. (Or maybe they don’t count becuae they work for other people?)
To be honest, it’s hard to think of something more selfish and immature than forgoing children.
I would’ve been yelled at for acting like that at 13… but 33?
My parents told me that I was welcome to visit, but any visit longer than 2 weeks involved me getting a job and paying bills.
Huh, troll much?
As aharris commented, being a basement dweller is not the result of SF Fandom. Since I have been a computer/sf/gaming/rpg geek since the 80′s, I’ve known a fair number of people who share my interests. Funnily enough, none of them are the loser that gets portrayed so often as the sterotype above. There are technical support folks, nurses, college professors, high school teachers, supervisors and the like aplenty — but basement dwelling morlocks who have never spoken to a girl? None. Every member of the various gaming groups I’ve been a part of is or has been married. In fact, thinking about it, they seem to have a lower divorce rate than my non-SF friends.
If you want to rant about western culture extending adolescence until after college or later, I’m there — more than willing to sign up and rant with you. But I suggest the problem is not that this man child was downloading a game and there fore uninterested in social activity with you. I see the problem as the mother ‘meekly’ trying to excuse a manchild’s behavior instead of having raised a child into a man.
Too many of my generation (34 years old) are just like this, man-children. Too many are man-whores, lazy, shiftless, and entirely uninterested in accomplishing anything. Where is their drive? I’m grateful to my parents, especially for gifts like the one they gave me for my 16th birthday, a ride to finish filling out paperwork for my first job. Sacrifice some, grow a pair, be a man, get married, put the effort required into making your marriage work (because it needs WORK) and GROW UP!
Why do you care what this kid does with his time?
Get a grip. Kathy is not talking about people who like sci-fi or video games.
I like video games. But I treat them for what they are: an amusing time-waster. I play now and then, and when I’m done, I’m done.
Kathy is talking about a type of man. You’ve never encountered Comic Book Guy in real life?
Kathy is talking about guys who devote themselves to video games and most sci-fi, like it’s really serious. It’s one thing to discuss a Star Trek episode for its themes. Quite another to dress up as a Trekkie, go to a convention and argue over episode Infinity.
I think Kathy’s point is that men in general– not just Comic Book Guys– have lost all sense of nobility and honour. They have no higher pursuits. They don’t get married, have kids, and try to improve the world in a concrete way the way Wahsington and Jefferson did.
Men have all this education, all this leisure, and they waste it on junk.
And she has a point about it being a kind of threat to security.
Look, if freedom for you is nothing more than the right to play video games and watch porn, Our Future Overlords will buy us off that way: We will let you play your dumb video games and surf your stupid porn sites, in return, we get to do what we want with you.
That’s what it was in Nineteen Eighty-Four. The plebes were allowed their beer and lottery tickets while the elites ran everything else.
Are these the men who will stand up for freedom and government intrusion? No. Will they stand up to foreign invasion or any kind of undermining threat like…say… Sharia? No. They’re soft. They don’t care about anything really important. They want to argue about Sci-Fi characters.
Don’t get your dander up about RPG and Sci-Fi and Video Games. That’s not what this piece is about. It’s about character.
I have indeed met “comic Book Guy.” How could I not, I live in the greatest concentration of College-aged people in the world. I simply think she mis-framed her original thought. “Serious” SF types do not, as a rule, kill time all day playing video games, and are fairly disinterested in comic books.
She didn’t mean SF Fans – she meant “Sci-Fi” fans. An entirely different category.
It wasn’t about “serious sci-fi types”.
1984 is a science fiction novel. Or did that slip your mind? So is Atlas Shrugged, so is A Conneticut Yankee in King Arthur’s Court.
The computer you type this tirade on was, in no small part, the work of science fiction fans. Of geeks, nerds, and ‘comic book guys’.
While modern literature is dominated by weepy feminized men or thuggish ‘bad boys’ crafted to appeal to the desires of womens hearts–and womens loins, science fiction, fantasy and comic book themes still contain some honor, some chivalry, some higher goals accomplished not to impress some airheaded bimbette, but to do what’s right. Why, in many cases, the hero doesn’t even get the girl at the end.
But he did the right thing.
Isn’t that a better lesson than the one taught by our steroid pumping athletes–whose crazed fandom goes unmentioned as a bad thing? Or the one learned by brain dead bad boys who appear forceful and attractive–until you’re left a babymomma with a longing look in your instinct addled eye?
You can’t know what a man may accomplish when you dismiss him because you can’t comprehend what he’s reading.
It takes a mature mind to identify those themes; and it takes a courageous heart to implement them. Neither of which will one find in much quantity at any given convention or LAN party.
Children read SF because it stimulates their imagination — a necessary foundation for later innovation. However, imagination is not a prerequisite for maturity, character, and wisdom. And this trio is most certainly not necessary for technological development.
“It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.”
While I do enjoy the occasional romp through Bartlett’s, appealing to authority (in this case, a rhetorical one) is still a logical fallacy. However, kudos on the non sequitur.
The computer I’m typing this on was invented by science fans. If it had been invented by science-fiction fans it would allow me to travel at warp speed and make people’s heads that I don’t like explode.
Some of us SF fans manage to grow up, put all things geeky in perspective, move out of our parents’ homes, get (and keep) jobs & a mate, and raise children.
I realize who you’re talking about (those fat, unkempt man-children I routinely see going in and out of the video game store at the mall), but just because someone knows all about the vagaraties of the Prime Directive, can discuss minor differences between different classes of starship on Star Trek, and knows their way around a Dungeons and Dragons rulebook doesn’t mean they constitute a threat to national security.
Not all “geeks” are irresponsible losers who refuse to grow up.
It’s better to tar everyone with the same brush and beat them with the same stick. The point isn’t debate or to draw sensitive distinctions. The point is to encourage self-reflection and the will for improvement and positive change. Where it is already done, well and good, tick the box and go on…..’>…….
Again with the comics books. You think artistry is somehow bound to approved genres and formats? Wine is more sophisticated than soda pop. Did you hear that one?
I read “Tarzan and the Ant Men” all alone atop 12,000 ft. high Santa Maria Volcano in Guatemala while Santiaguito thousands of ft. below was in eruption. Spent two nights up there.
I was reading “Altered Carbon” while photographing the Egyptian revolution and the Forbidden Borders trilogy by W. Michael Gear while motorcycling completely around the island of Bali. I found and read “Pirates of Venus” in Cuzco and read Michael Moorcock at Aqua Calientes while stuck near to Machu Picchu during an 8 day train strike.
I’ve read the first hundred issues of virtually every Marvel comic that had a hundred issues plus endless DC comics. Please don’t tell me your insipid stereotypes of what science fiction and comic fans do and don’t do.
Go outside. That’s where I am.
And reading “Legacy” by Greg Bear and “Revelation Space” by Alistair Reynolds.
She’s talking about the noteworthy characteristics of a certain failed man. The sort of person that needs corrected before we end up with a failed society and then a failed nation……
That said, we don’t need better ‘comic books’. Reading about the superior virtues and self-discipline of Geo. Washington won’t wash the stink out. What we need is national service and for that certain type of man to learn habits of self-control and industry in actual life, and personally, for himself……..
Quote from the article: “I’ve said it before: Science fiction fans, “graphic novel” readers and computer games rarely amount to anything, despite (or because of) the man-hours they waste fantasizing about heroic adventures.”
This statement reads far pretty clearly that SF fans, comic readers, and computer gamers rarely amount to much — it’s a straight up slap at those of us who are SF fans, comic readers and computer gamers. If her intent was not to insult my hobbies directly, that quote is a remarkably badly written sentence.
The noteworthy characteristics of a failed man is failure, not reading Jack Vance or Stan Lee.
This is reality: there are at least some tens of thousands of SF fans in America. Shaidle couldn’t possibly know what they’re doing or amount to. The bottom line is that when someone makes an authoritative comment about something they couldn’t possibly know the truth of, all they’re revealing is what they want to believe.
The real issue then is why Shaidle finds comfort in believing SF and comic fans are losers.
In George Washington’s day, society also recognized a “common scold” when it saw one, and understood that the ducking stool had its place in the maintenance of public and domestic order. Shaidle might come to regret the directions in which she points the targets of her dudgeon.
Heh.
The one element of your rant I agree with is that of adult children going back to live at home. I just don’t grok that.
The rest is a rant about psychological escapism, and one might want to debate which is cause and which is effect – is there something broken in society that encourages escapism, or does this escapism itself break society? The suggestion seems to be the latter or the rant would have no juice.
Scifi (or sf or however you want to spell it) is widely read, comic books rather less these days, it seems, for all the comic-derived movies. One hardly wants to walk around on the street without *some* level of familiarity with Star Wars and Tolkien. OTOH, the point is well taken that some *actual* history, economics, and science can well occupy your time as well, and maybe help get you out of that basement. Some more appreciation – or at least familiarity – with Revolutionary times, and with George Washington, is certainly in order. OTOH it’s hard to teach such serious lessons, however valid, to the yutes, who are busy growing up and rebelling and ignoring whatever you tell them other than reciting it for the test. Scifi is escapist exactly because some old bag of a teacher is not up there requiring you to know it, and even sniffing about it.
So what else is new.
I do believe she refers to the modernized lotus eaters, nicht wahr? And can’t see much to argue with. And I’ll put my 20th level half-orc bard up against any equivalent. Short life span notwithstanding.
Chick-fil-a is popular here at PJM. Now we can enjoy comics and support chick-fil-a at the same time.
http://www.comicsalliance.com/2010/10/15/chick-fil-a-super-cows-comics/
I guess I do not get the point of the rest of the article. It is easy to make fun of social misfits who do geeky stuff, like political junkies and blogging.
“At that “boy’s” age, Jesus had risen from the dead.”
Great line.
I see more and more of these man-children around. It seems like many people stop developing at the adolescent level, which means that many females are at least functional as human beings and may be helpful but the males who stop growing are totally worthless in every possible way.
I’m surprised Kathy neglected to mention that Thomas Jefferson wrote the Declaration of Independence when he was all of 33.
Geek-baiting again, Kathy? Don’t you have anything better to do?
Here’s a challenge for you: make your claim that “Science fiction fans, “graphic novel” readers and computer games rarely amount to anything, despite (or because of) the man-hours they waste” to any of the forums on Baen’s Bar and watch the PhDs, field experts and other highly accomplished science fiction fans, graphic novel readers, and computer gamers come out of the woodwork to refute you.
She and her husband are both trolls and scolds who’ll write anything to get hits and comments. They deserve each other. What we did to deserve them is another matter.
The list of friends of mine who are not only accomplished professionals, but also huge SF fans would run to hundreds of names — many of them actual SF authors.
Ms Shaidle is simply your standard issue Troll, one each, sent down from central casting to deride those who enjoy things she does not.
Like most trolls, and as above, common scolds, she seems to feel what she approves of is the only thing anyone should pay any attention to.
For the record, I am an accomplished journalist with millions of words of copy and several huge stories to my credit — here and at the Daily Caller. I am also a huge SF fan, the editor of an SF review site, and a writer of SF in my munificent spare time. I like comic books, SF movies and books, video games and in the past tabletop RPG games. In short, I am a geek.
The problem with Ms. Shaidle’s constant geek-baiting is that geeks are the ones who make the things she values — and always have been. That computer you wrote your post on Kathy? A geek made that, and he was probably a SF fan and read comic books.
To reiterate, I believe some posters are mistaking the author’s intent. I believe she is mentioning sci-fi, video games, etc. as examples of symptoms of a greater malady. Her point is not so simple as “reading comic books equals a wasted, unproductive life.” Rather, her point is that many young adults have not taken up the mantle of adulthood as they ought to have. It is ok for a 10-year old to play with toys without a care in the world, but a 20-year old should be laying the foundation for meeting his obligations as a responsible citizen.
If you are a responsible citizen and you like reading comic books, Ms Shaidle is not talking to you, so please calm down.
Pater,
Ms Shaidle has quite the history of geek-baiting in her articles. She’s shown a remarkable level of hostility towards SF geeks – who, like any other group based around a shared interest, range from dysfunctional to highly respected members of society. Ms Shaidle’s articles tend to focus on the dysfunctional subset without acknowledging that the majority of fans are responsible citizens. Who, strangely enough, rather object to being lumped in with the dysfunctional just because they like the same movies, games, books and comics.
It’s a little like thinking that everyone who owns a firearm must be a murderer just waiting for the chance to kill someone, or that every female must be a potential prostitute (she has the equipment, after all). That path is a bad one to walk whether you approve of someone or not.
EXACTLY. I don’t mind using hyperbole now and then to make a point but why always the geeks/nerds/gamers/sci-fi/fantasy fans?
If you read some of Dr. Helen’s articles, you’ll find a lot of men in the comments who are refusing to get married because they see the laws stacked against them. Those men are frequently being scolded by conservative men and many women for refusing to play the game any more. Many are divorced and quite bitter. Young men are seeing what has happened and marriage rates are dropping. Perhaps they’re realizing that there are better things to do with their lives than constantly trying to live up to other people’s expectations.
This doesn’t not bode well and won’t end well for society.
Respectfully disagree, as it is very good news that will indeed end well. It is a natural, normal and expected reaction to the Misandry Bubble here in the US today.
Link is to an article a couple years ago that calls pretty closely what is happening to young men today. Well worth your time to read. There are a couple follow-on articles. Cheers -
http://www.singularity2050.com/2010/01/the-misandry-bubble.html
I suspect that the same guys bitching about Kathy’s generalizations about man/boys and their hobbies will be more than happy to generalize about their sister counter parts in the upcoming post. Especially if she takes aim at their sluttery, frivilous divorce, iphones, and social media.
Well you know what demographic drove us to it.
Lol, so perhaps we shouldn’t apply solipsism to generalities like they do.
Gonna have to disagree with your article.
I read – and still read – science fiction.
Check out some comments on PJMedia and you’ll notice a certain science fiction writer by the name of Robert Heinlein being quoted extensively – and with good reason.
The man had an astonishing grasp of human nature, and there is a lot of political thought in all of his books. The last movie based on his work, not so much – it’s crap.
As for comic books and graphic novels, I read those too. It gives me something in common with my 15 year old son. I also introduced him to Edgar Rice Burroughs (Tarzan, John Carter of Mars, etc.).
Besides, the artwork in some of those books is amazing.
You may have a low opinion of those scifi books, but if you take the time to read Burroughs, for instance, you will notice that the author infuses his characters with certain personality traits, and the personality traits of the “good guys” includes a healthy dose of honor, loyalty and perseverance in the face of adversity.
I’d suggest those qualities are good examples for a budding young mind to absorb, and frankly to this day I still enjoy picking up one of his books and re-reading it.
I know how to play my son’s first person shooter games – and I’ve also made it a point to teach him how to use a REAL gun.
I was very proud this past Christmas to watch him use his new 12 gauge for a bit of informal plinking to good effect, and displaying the correct level of safety and responsibility that’s been drilled into his head as far as safe gun handling practices.
Oh, did I mention I’m also work in an engineering firm, have never been fired (so far, knock on wood) have always remained employed since I started working right after college (almost 30 years ago), have been married (to the same woman) for over 21 years, and own two houses, and am close to hitting the age of 50?
Does that sound like a manchild loser to you?
You should consider editing your opinion to indicate more clearly that having an interest in the topics you dismiss is not an indication of an immature manchild.
I suggest that the more accurate characterization of an immature manchild is instead a person who flees from the real world and responsibility in general by retreating to a fantasy world where he feels he has some level of expertise because he’s allowed himself to be such a loser in the real world.
In my experience, those manchild types always have a parent who aids their choices and lifestyles, and as such they never face the challenges that make them rise to the occasion, be self sufficient and man up.
Oh, and I forgot to mention, another of my “geeky” interests is history.
I am the only one I know of who read the entire Federalist Papers in his early 20′s just for the knowledge to be gained, and I find I am usually more than prepared for any discussions on the Declaration of Independence as well as the US Constitution.
As my kids go through school, I can accurately discuss the topics in their history classes without having to reference their text books.
As a kid, one of my past times was just plucking out an encyclopedia from the book shelf, flipping it open randomly and start reading.
Nah, she is just unhappy because she did not snag you when you were both younger. Now the available pool of men includes those guys who never hooked up for whatever reason or divorced guys who have baggage.
I have always thought that a good woman can keep a man on a path to success, whatever success means. That needs a commitment. Those of us, I am one, who have some geeky interests tend to better prospects in life when we apply that creativity. There is a subset who never get out of the basement. Who cares about them? They were not at my meeting today and do not harm anyone so far as I know.
She wants Mr. Grey or George Washington to rescue her.
Washington doubtless would have been put off more than a littly by the whining tone. Mr. Gray, if the one I think you are referring to, might thrash those issues out for her in a more direct fashion…lol.
Still, who knew that in the new century, to be a man considered desirable by women only requires him to show up and do what he is supposed to be doing anyway as a man….
Still, who knew that in the new century, to be a man considered desirable by women only requires him to show up and do what he is supposed to be doing anyway as a man….
A very small number of men make up that group. The man Kathy describes would not be one of them. Both groups are parasites, as are the women who enable them.
Kathy:
Grown women don’t spend their lives moaning, bitching and complaining about every thing they don’t like, i.e., Christmas, families, minorities, their mothers, their short stature, their (alleged) lack of good looks, the horrors of parenthood,
They also don’t whine endlessly about their allegedly lousy childhoods, whilst simultaneously patting themselves on the back for being so strong and tough, and rising above said childhoods—and, generally, just being a better, sweller, person than all those horrible people who like “Star Wars.”
Enough is enough, I mean give it a rest already! Or, if you can’t, just go ahead and write that book you’re obviously dying to write about how you overcome your horrible family/Christmas/Geeks/Star Wars fans, etc., to become the splendiferous person you are today, and why people who like things you don’t approve of are worthless as human beings.
I’m sure Oprah would love it.
If she’s true to form, half of the book will be excerpts from Adam Carolla’s.
Another poster on here mentioned that the man-child phenomenon has always existed. That’s probably true, however, there’s far more of it these days. It all boils down to the modern reality that a) there’s no pride in marrying/raising a family…and b)there’s no shame in hanging onto childhood well into adulthood.
Thankfully, I’ve never had to spend any time with Kathy’s described manchild up close. But I know the type, and he would compel Mother Theresa to slam a chair over his head.
If the 33 y/o Home Alone Marathon manchild is uppity about American cheese, it’s safe to wager that he has chugged the Kool-Aid. A small amount of sympathy is due. His head is all messed up because that’s what feminism/progressivism has been doing to young men for the past few decades; they have been completely emasculated, their perceptions of reality have been dramatically skewed. Some rise above it, some do not.
That’s your Uncle Waspy’s 2¢ – don’t spend it all one place!
…….
Speaking of obscenely good burgers, there was a little out-of-the-way dive in Scarborough (Eglinton & Civic area) named “Goody’s”. I was going to give you directions, but the interwebs tell me that the place is now defunct. The tears are staring to well up. I’m telling you kids, you had to wear your old jeans when you went to Goody’s because their burgers were so good they’d make you ker-sploosh!
Yeah, our universities are turning out a huge number of people who are mal-educated: In terms of knowledge, skills, and temperment, they come out of college worse off than when they went in. I’ll bet that’s going to play a lot into what Kathy says in the conclusion article coming up.
There are more man-children around these days,
because now they can afford to be.
In past centuries, dilettantes were limited to the few children of royalty or of the wealthy. Everybody else had to work hard–sometimes in backbreaking work.
Affluence created the middle class, then the upper middle class, and then the leisure class.
I read comics, watch star wars, AND smoke the dreaded pot. Kathy makes valid points on all of these topics. I read her, Arnie and kate every day despite the fact that they have (some) oppinions contrary to mine own. If i was friends with Kathy I’m sure she would give me a piece of her mind about my habits, as I’m sure I would bust her balls re: The who being better than the stupid band I like.
Read what she’s saying and don’t go all wookie who lost a videogame to an astromech droid. The force is strong with Kathy.
Oh, Lordy, Ty, YES! (Adam Carolla being one of the—very few—things, Kathy heartily approves of.)
She’d say something like this:
“Those of you who think I was being too hard on fanboys in my last column, might want to take a look at this truly wonderful video by Adam Carolla, where he completely eviscerates the whole fanboy mentality, and Star Trek and Star Wars, too!”
Adam: “Well, &&&^^%&^!, all those p*ssies who enjoy science fiction are pro’ly the kinda guys who’d watch chick flicks, too! I mean, (**&^^%)&, chick flicks are pretty low on the human scale. So are chicks themselves, as a matter of fact, but us manly guys gotta have ‘em around, for *&&^%$$!But nobody’s lower than some **&&^%%$ wearing pointy ears!” (Etc., etc., etc., blah, blah, blah, so on and so forth.)
Kathy: “Well, how can you possibly argue with Adam?”
How indeed? /Sarc.
Oprah: “Now, let’s everybody have a great, big hug here!”
I do wish Kathy would write that book. She needs an outlet for, well. . . something. Maybe she can write it with Adam.
I somehow have the feeling that, if Kathy were to actually meet her founding father heroes, that she’d like them any better than her fanboy relative. They might not enthuse over Adam Carolla. They might not like the “Die Hard” movies. They might not hate their families, or they might be so gauche as to enjoy things such as holidays, parties and their company of their fellow man. A lot of them may have dressed funny, and might have looked funny. (Washington had wooden teeth.) They might have liked un-manly things, like dancing and gardening. They might not have liked the hamburgers at that place, either.
And now Kathy’s going to lecture all them bad womyns out there, and tell them how to shape up! Hootie-hooo, I can scarcely wait! /Sarc.
I do wish she’d write that book. And get it out of her system. Or something. Or write the official biography of Adam Carolla.
Fantastic column Kathy!
Kathy,
I not only read science fiction and comics, I write ‘em professionally. I’ve written for DC Comics, Asimov’s Magazine, and a slew of other venues. Pretty geeky, right?
But you know what? That isn’t my whole life. I’ve also served multiple rotations in Iraq and recently retired from twenty-five years+ in the military. Served for two years as a volunteer unpaid missionary in a Third World Nation before that as a 19 and 20 year old.
One of my big hobbies is visiting Civil War battlefields and I have a large home library on military history. Much of my writing oeuvre is science fiction about the Civil War and other pivotal moments in history, in fact. Writing alternate history pretty much requires a post-graduate knowledge of the real history it fictionalizes.
The key is science fiction and comics aren’t my whole life, only an enriching part of it. Like everything else–advocating kindness to animals, rooting for a sports team, dining at McDonalds, blogging curmudgeonly on pop culture–moderation in all things.
One must develop a proper value system. In the Air Force, we have what we call Core Values — Integrity First, Service Before Self, Excellence in All We Do — which is a pretty good place to start.
And you know something? Those are pretty much the same core values that the best of science fiction and comic books (the latter especially a literature of service and sacrifice) inculcates in its readers. Or attempts to. At least the ones I write.
The young man you described clearly failed to glean any of that in his surface reading and viewing, just as he clearly failed to glean any social graces or sense of family bonding from other influences in his life.
He was rude and obnoxious to a small private gathering. How many more people are there in a widely-read blog audience?
Is there really all that much difference between what that unpleasant man-child did and a blogger who apparently surface-read the deeds and exploits of the American Story but completely missed internalizing that our founding document honors an individual’s own choices in their pursuit of happiness?
Lee Allred
leeallred.com
So I guess all of you fellow commenters who immediately zeroed in on the “men who read comic books” and “SF fans” and felt compelled to rush into the comments section to express your outrage don’t have much of a feel for irony, huh? Your overreaction, and need I point out, your immediate and total identification with the classification you’ve found so insulting place you quite nicely in the “man-boy” (better, “boy-man”?)category: an immature self-image, preoccupation with entertainment pursuits which until the recent past would have unerringly been considered childish, your desperation to defend yourself and your interests as serious and worthy pursuits, and so on.
You’ve provided striking testimony to the validity of Kathy’s generalizations. Go back and re-read her description of the guy’s conduct: are you proud now of the way you’ve effectively classed yourselves with that idiot against what you suggest are the undiscerning tastes of Ms. Shaidle?
“Go back and re-read her description of the guy’s conduct”
I see her problem with his conduct. I do not see how this conduct ties in with his entertainment pursuits.
Would she rather he be 33 years old, living with his parents, unemployed, and reading The Classics and quoting Constitutional Law?
Because to be honest half of her issues are valid and the other is not and hell yes people get testy when you try to dredge up steriotypes that quite frankly are dead and buried.
You think that calling someone wrong and pointing out why proves the validity of their argument?
It seems logic isn’t really your strong suit.
Um, Levans, what exactly was so heinous about this guy’s conduct? Did he kill Kathy’s cat? Punch out her, and her husband? Set fire to the house?
Kathy criticizes him for being silent, and not communicating—and, when he does communicate, she criticizes him for talking about a movie—”The Hobbit”—she doesn’t happen to find interesting. (If he’d praised the “Die Hard” movies, or Adam Carolla’s latest book, she’d probably have thought he was wonderful. Some popular entertainment is more worthy of preoccupation than others.)
So, the guy’s damned if he talks, and damned if he doesn’t talk. That he didn’t want to remain at the dinner table might be at least partially due to Kathy’s attitude towards him (he senses she doesn’t like him, and is ever-ready to jump on everything he does, so, no, he doesn’t want to be around her.) That he still lives with his family at 33 isn’t good—but that’s a problem for him, and his family. (It’s also a problem for many young men, and women, who aren’t into sci-fi or comics, and it was Kathy herself who zeroed in on Sci-fi, and comics, and seemingly holds them responsible for sapping American manhood.)
So, in short, the guy is unpleasant, and not real communicative—kinda like my own unpleasant, uncommunicative, I-want-to-be-a-rock-star-living-at-home-with-Mom relative—but Kathy rants as if this is the worst thing EVAH, and indicative of why American men are no longer manly, like the founding dads, and Adam Carolla, and Star Wars, and Sci-fi, and comics, are to blame, and—and—and—
Talk about your overreacting!
And, now, I’m going to rant a bit myself! Ever since the election, Republican/Conservatives have been soul-searching, asking themselves what went wrong, and how can we reach out to the masses to deliver our message, etc.?
Could it be that one problem is that many, supposedly “Conservative” writers are just not that good, not particularly entertaining and alienate a lot of potential readers by their whining, constant harping on their pet peeves and judgmental attitudes? They seem to prove the liberal accusation that Conservatives really are narrow-minded, unintelligent, bilious guys who disapprove of practically everything. Take Kathy Shaidle; she doesn’t like sci-fi fans, minorities and doesn’t think women should have the vote; that’s her perogative, but her writings on these subjects going to bring those who disagree with her about these things into the Conservative camp.
Camille Paglia, whom many Conservatives strangely admire, is, let’s face it, a fruit bat. Seriously—just try reading one of her articles about art, if you think I’m wrong. (Here’s a fun drinking game! Every time she mentions the “Whitebread 50′s” or Sandra Dee, take a chug!)
Ayn Rand, who is also strangely beloved of many Conservatives, was fiercely anti-religious, hated families and uncritically adored powerful big businessmen. Adam Carolla, let’s face it, is a foul-mouthed, mysoginistic slob. Sometimes a racist is, actually—a racist, not a daring, witty fellow, speaking out against political correctness. Sometimes a woman-hater is just a woman-hater, not just a bold rebel against feminism. Sometimes a slob is just a slob. We need to be able to tell the difference.
Yes, we do have some good writers, such as Mark Steyn, and Victor Davis Hanson–and the former is frequently criticized for his “Silly” interest in musicals, and the latter for his “Boring” discourses on ancient history.
Conservatives need to stop pushing second-raters, if they really want to win people over. Might be a good resolution for the New Year.
Actually, she’s criticising the lil’ tot for being this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqADU06VbyI
enjoy…….’p……….
Another good writer, who’se appeared on PJ Media, is Sarah Hoyt—who would doubtless be rejected by many because she writes—gasp, shudder, the horror, the horror!–fantasy and science fiction! (Read her, for she is good.)
Honest to Buddha, the Conservative movement needs a real wake-up call!
I’m ashamed to see such stereotyping on a PJ website! Yes, the habits of the people that truly fit these stereotypes are abysmal, but just as any bigot she is taking “the characteristics” of a small segment of a given group and expanding to all whom enjoy/participate in this activity. Exactly as the “left” does verse any “right-wing” activity they deem “bad”.
I apologize for the bigot comment. It was inappropriate. I understand where the writer is coming from knowing that to many under 40 are prone to “sinking into” the role described. i just find it very aggravating to see a PJ journalist(yes i said journalist, for you are my generations true journalists) white-washing a whole demographic, like a left-leaning talking head. please just don’t paint all comic/anime/sci-fy/fantasy with the same brush. for the past 80 yrs it has been the inspiration for some of the greatest scientists of our time. my sincere apologies for my rash comment, to your rash stereotyping of science fiction fans.
This guy is useless, because he dissed a hamburger joint Kathy liked, wasn’t very sociable and, when he did talk, talked about something she wasn’t interested in?
Ooooookaaaaaayyyyyyyyy. . .
(Again, I have to ask—what was it, other than being sullen, and anti-social—which might have been partly in response to Kathy’s own attitude—did this guy do that was so terrible? Did he steal her credit cards, during dinner? Did he steal her car? Was he insufficiently appreciative of the “Die Hard” movies? And how does Kathy extrapolate from this that it’s all the fault of sci-fi?)
The more I read this woman’s stuff the more I think that she has been subject to men who would (strange as it is) rather read comics, play games, and discuss common interests among friends than listed to her piss and moan about their hobbies.
How’s this for a truce. You can say something about another’s hobbies only if they mention somethng about yours.
Hear hear!
Stones and glass houses and all that of course.
I mean EVERY hobby/fandom has extremes. Hence the term “FAN” which is short for “FANATIC.”
For instance:
She’s obviously one of those BLOGGERS. Every blogger I’ve known is a hopeless loser who writes to scream to the world how important they are and how everything they think is better and smarter than everyone else. The world would be so much better if everyone did what they said. Look how smart I am I can string together words and post them online.
/sarc
Seriously EVERY fandom can be reduced and ridiculed why must we always pick on the Sci-Fi/Fantasy/Gamer groups? Just because we tend to be a bit more laid back? Why not the musicians? The hipsters? The photographers? Car enthusiasts? Hikers? Hell bicyclists! Take your pick! Yet always go for us… sheesh..
Well, actually, I DO like to poke fun at the hipsters. Please don’t tell me some hipsters are actually decent; I don’t know if I could take it.
*Chuckles* Well I’m sure there’s one somewhere…. Norman Chan from Tested.com seems decent enough. :p
“I’ve said it before: Science fiction fans, “graphic novel” readers and computer games rarely amount to anything, despite (or because of) the man-hours they waste fantasizing about heroic adventures.”
That’ll come as a shock to all my very successful friends, especially the guy I know who got me started on comics who is now a published author of 10 books and raising two boys with his wife.
Typical woman; theres a man she doesn’t know, not living as she desires, so it’s a problem. Not mentioned is all the insipid girly crapola that is the functional equivalent and is most likely an even bigger waste of time and money.
I’m in my mid 40s and I’ve been reading comics since I was 5. I have around twenty thousand of them in my collection, along with a good number of action figures, toys, games and many other things Ms. Shaidle would no doubt dismiss as childish. I also love video games and movies, particularly sic-fi and fantasy.
I’m also a military veteran and financial advisor who makes a six-figure salary, I own my home and I’m married to a woman several orders of magnitude hotter than Ms. Shaidle. From this I conclude two things. First if this is “not amounting to much” I’ll gladly take it. Second is that the author is too stupid to realize that if every man around her is a loser the problem may just be with her rather than with men in general.
“I’ve said it before: Science fiction fans, “graphic novel” readers and computer games rarely amount to anything, despite (or because of) the man-hours they waste fantasizing about heroic adventures.”
Albert Einstein, abject failure
Freeman Dyson, loser
Stephen Hawking, utter fool
Bill Gates, shiftless layabout
Do I have this right? Because something seems odd……..?
@ Azathoth,
Yeah, and while we’re at it I’m sure that Miss Shaidle would be happy to let us know that these rocket, computer and genetic engineering things are all just passing fads that will never catch on.
I wonder what impression we would have formed of Miss Shaidle had the 33 year old she speaks of been the one to tell the story? o_O
My son is 24 and is not so different from the 33 year old man described in the article. My son has High Functioning Autism. There is little I can do to affect his behavior. He knows more about Japanese pop culture than anyone should. He is looking for work, but has been unsuccessful. Don’t be so hard on the 33 year old “man-child”. It’s probably not his fault.
(“He’s busy downloading some computer games,” his mother meekly explained.)”
There’s your problem. Mommy’s been keeping him tied to her apron strings a bit too tightly. Over protective and jealously hovering parents do more harm to their children (of both sexes) than comic books and video games ever will. It’s sometimes hard not to make excuses for them but each time you do, you diminish them and yourself.
I understand what you’re trying to say here, but at the same time it is annoying to hear the same old stereotypes trotted out time and time again.
Then again they wouldn’t be stereotypes if at least SOMEONE didn’t fit them.
Though I think you could have made the same point and left out attacking fandoms in general by just focusing on the attitude, actions, and wasted life. That in itself is bad enough.
I know, I know the point was to “Shock” and use vivid imagery to gain attention and comments and I’ll admit by commenting I’m just adding to the attention, but damn it when I see BS I have to call it.
Are all nerds lack-about losers? Nope.
Are all nerds super serious and successful? Nope.
Yet which extreme is trotted out the most? Hmm… hard choice there.
Kathy Shaidle’s problem is with women. Men will be EXACTLY what women want, or more to the point sleep with (when the women are attractive). Don’t want guys to be slackers? Simple. Persuade 99% of attractive (obese Mama June women don’t count) YOUNG women (aging cougars don’t count either) to give their favors only to earnest, striving workhorses who are serious men.
Which is impossible. This just in … women LOVE JERKS. Or more to the point, the women who are actually desirable (not aging cougars, not Mama June, not spokeswomen for Jenny Craig) LOVE men who are dominant, sociable, arrogant, aloof, and desired (pre-selected) by other women.
Anything about being serious or working hard or earning a great living? Nope.
Those guys who can’t be dominant, aloof, arrogant assholes who are preselected by having other women want and have them (which is about 90% of all men) simply opt out and do the min possible in life and entertain themselves to death. Shaidle doesn’t like it? Blame the (attractive) young women who form defacto soft harems with the most desirable men.
What really does she want the 90% of men who are not Alpha Males to do? Work themselves to death for what? A few Alphas and the women being their baby mamas? Heck no, let the Shawty Los and their baby mamas raise their kids with their own money, or let them starve.
And lets be honest. This is just more female HATE HATE HATE for beta males. Yes Beta males get obsessed with comic book and movie trivia. Women get obsessed with stupid reality shows, Alpha males, celebrities, and utterly useless fashion. At least comic books stimulate ideas about new technology (the comic book Judge Dredd and the “Lawgiver” pistol there formed the template for the “Landwarrior” project of the US Army and the XM-9 battle rifle).
Yes Kathy, far too many men are beta males obsessed with comic books. Far too many women are fat, slatterns, and filled with icky tattoos or empty fashion.
I’m a scifi/comic book/video game fan, as well as a firefighter and a former Marine. What does that make me?
Jerry Pournelle, John Ringo, Tom Kratman, and Terry Goodkind must all be whiny, slobby, live-with-mom, loser boy-men right? How about resident Heinlein fan, BILL FREAKIN’ WHITTLE!
I could say some nasty things about people who are to stupid and unimaginative to appreciate Science Fiction.
Kathy, for your information, I taught myself how to do calculus at the age of 12, because of “The Rolling Stones” by Heinlein. I was doing surface calculus and taught myself how to use Lagrange Multipliers by the time I was 15, because of “The Complete Venus Equilateral” compilation.
At the age of 33, I took in an 11 year old boy, who’s dad was a drug addict. There was no one else to look after the poor kid, so I did, despite being single, and out of work. It was reading SF and the Bible( bet you object to that also) that gave me the imagination to look beyond my current situation and limitations, to be brave enough to do such a thing.
I am currently reading a comic book, “Hunter X Hunter”. I’m reading it in Japanese.
Kathy, if your closed minded way of thinking held sway, we would all still be living in caves, but without all of that wonderful cave art you would have objected because it was “immature” and impractical. That computer you used to write your nonsense and the internet you used to distribute it, would not even exist if it was not for people like me and my coworkers, most of whom are SF readers.
At least all that cave art wouldn’t be depictions of Asuka Langley’s pudendum…..’>…….
um, cave art was FAMOUS for lady parts. And great sproinging man parts.
Yeah, but we lacked the anthropomorphic chibi kitty-girls. That was definitely an innovation for a later age…….
It appears that you’ve conflated technical expertise with wisdom. Your adolescent achievements clearly show that the latter is not necessary for the former. Therefore, all that you’ve achieved herein is a desperately self-congratulatory ululation containing but tangential connection to the topic at hand: character.
I commend you for your helping the most vulnerable among us, but the Bible also teaches about the hazards of pride and acerbic speech.
What does it teach about laughing all the way to happiness and the bank?
Oh I’m sorry, did I hurt your feelings. Its OK that you are not bright enough to follow what I was trying to say or understand how it relates to the article. I am sure that there are many other things that you are good at.
One more thing, Kathy, you silly twit, don’t you now that a great many fans of SF are history buffs?
You might think you are a conservative, but your brain sure works like a lefties.
Man hater? I’m sure I don’t know any women that act like this!
There’s a deeper issue here, one of conservative mindset.
The author suggests replacing SF with admiring stories about past leaders like Thomas Jefferson.
Much of SF is about the future, and she wants to replace that with stories glorifying the past.
That’s a problem.
Americans have always been future-oriented. We built canals and dams and roads and superhighways and power plants and space satellites to create a better future for ourselves. “Futurama” exhibits at two World’s Fairs, which speculated on brighter futures for ourselves, proved highly popular with the American public. Those were a kind of SF too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-5aK0H05jk
A conservatism that keeps talking about our glorious past–implying that the present and future may be worse–has never won elections.
Jack Kemp, Reagan, Gingrich, all proposed ideas to move America toward a bright *conservative* future. That’s why they are remembered.
If we conservatives are to win back public opinion and win back the White House, we have to present a vision of America’s future that is bright and attractive.
WIN
I know basement-dwelling losers like Shaidle describes.
I also know that having a “pull” list at the comic shop and playing Magic and D&D and computer games didn’t prevent me from getting my Ph.D., or tenure at my college, or the rank of LTC in the Army Reserve…or getting married and raising two wonderful sons.
I suppose that if I obsessed about pro sports, I would have *really* made something of my life.
Ms. Shaidle, I am glad that you at least had the courage to admit your real problem, which is that you’re Canadian. Take that up with your ancestors who decided that they’d rather remain loyal to the English crown than live as free people.
I’m with Kathy on this one. Of course she is generalizing, and the article is badly written at times, but if you have an active mind, you would understand what she is trying to say.
She’s criticizing the failed man, with a deformed character because of escapism from reality through something like Science fiction books, comics, video games. Things that -without exaggeration, would be good for relaxing or finding inspiration.
She’s doing exactly what Ayn Rand did -recognizing the differences- when she wrote the “Open letter to Boris Spassky”; where she criticized russian society for escaping reality through chessboards. We all know that playing chess is not actually a bad thing, you need a mathematical, logical mind, power of vision, to be a good chess player, yet many people -according to Rand- was playing just for an escape from reality.
The reasons Ayn Rand stated are actually quite similar to the reasons why some people look to escape through video games:
* A world where there is a conflict between the good and evil
* Universal laws recognized that, when learned, lead you to Success
* Sense of goal-oriented “life”, and achievement
While these are good things to find in a book, a game (chess or video games), in a sport, or a movie, you shouldn’t make it an excuse to become absorbed in that fictional world, you still need -as Kathy mentions- to try to be an accomplished man that puts in practice, in the real life, those values admired in the books/games/movies.
No shes not. She is projecting her failed presentations on an entire group of people EXACTLY like lefties do!
Seriously, what’s wrong with you guys?
* Kathy is criticizing the people that escapes from reality through video games/SF/comics, so much that they forget there is something else in life.
* A lot of people that play video games, read S.F., etc, BUT still makes other things in real life, now start crying foul like little girls…
* Kathy is obviously NOT referring to any of you, not Fail Burton, not Albert Einstein, not Bill Gates. LOL
*** How about Kathy writing tomorrow about people that evade solving their problem by drinking too much alcohol? ***
Shall we then expect people who drink alcohol but are not drunks-and they only drink socially, and they actually solve their problems, to start criticizing Kathy? All of this is ridiculous. Seriously. It’s obvious the critic is not directed at you.
I seriously doubt the type of man Kathy is denouncing will ever read something like PJM. I have met quite a few of them, so I know Kathy is not inventing a failed character out of thin air here.
You get this, you some kinda freak er something……;P………..
I think I’m stuck back at the title- as far as I know, the only kids in school who do know about Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, guns, the Constitution, the Medicis, Persians vs Greeks……..learned them from video games. And documentaries that showed right after shows about video games. Not just at the level of ” I passed a test and then forgot this” but at the level of ” how this choice affected that.”
Steve Allen used to host a show on PBS where minor celebrities dressed up and talked about stuff that Steve Allen wanted to talk about. Watching that show made you ‘culcha’d’. Right now, video game designers have historic personages talk about stuff in a video game, and it’s supposed to be the worst thing ever?
I’m sorry Ms Shaidle has an unhinged relative. They are hard on the digestion. Video games and comics might be the only parts of his life that are working, though.
George Washington is a steam-punk homicidal android in Bioshock Infinite. Close enough to historical accuracy for you?……
DesertYote, yes, a lot of comic book/sci-fi fans are, frequently, history buffs, and can often tell you a lot about their chosen eras, be it military history, medieval history, European, etc. In fact, all the ones I’ve met usually had at least one historical era they were expert on.
A lot of them are also computer nerds, or work in some other kind of high-tech/tech support field. And, a lot have a number of side hobbies, such as studying Jane Austen (they call themselves “Janeites”),historical re-creation of one kind or another; cooking, handicrafts, coin collecting; Many are cinephiles.
These are not people living empty, meaningless, uninteresting lives.
And, yes, Kathy is projecting. And, yes, she is, essentially, a Lefty. (As are many ostensibly “Conservative” pundits; how some of them get this reputation for being these ultra-cool, uber-hip defenders of conservatism, is beyond me.)
X, we can read what Kathy wrote for ourselves. Yeah, she’s criticizing all those who like a form entertainment she doesn’t approve of, and she equates them all with a particular relative she doesn’t like. He Probably doesn’t like her much, either.
This doesn’t make him All That is Wrong With American Men!
I think everyone, Mrs. Shaidle included, misses the single most important element in this article. She actually said something enlightening, and no one, including Mrs. Shaidle noticed it. Everyone is so focused on the symptom that you’ve all missed the disease as it were.
As a parenthetical aside Mrs. Shaidle informs us that his mother meekly explained “He’s busy downloading some computer games,” and none of the comments I have read so far (got as far as 25 before I had enough of the comic-book argument) bothers to note this.
That one sentence succinctly identifies the disease. Just as in the Fawlty Towers clip this mother (and I assume the father by acquiescing) has insulated her son from accepting the ramifications of his actions. This is the disease that plagues our nation and is destroying it.
I was just out with my wife this evening for a quiet dinner, and had left our daughter with a sitter, but could not enjoy the evening because another couple’s child kept screaming and they wouldn’t correct them. If that had been our daughter she would have been removed from the area so as not to disturb other people, then punished (and yes, I have done this, including spanking her in public before). As parents WE are responsible for cultivating a desire to be ADULTS in our children, but as the quote above points out, too many parents refuse to do so. We are so busy ensuring that our children enjoy being children that we never bother to remember that they are going to spend 75% of their time on this ball of dirt as ADULTS NOT CHILDREN.
And all of this from one who’s parents did pay for college, allowed him to move back in for a year between jobs (rent and responsibility free), and still after 12 years of marriage and 7 years of fatherhood enjoys comic books, science-fiction/fantasy, and video games. And yes, I do have a six figure income at a highly respected job (the job or one related to it for the past 15 years, the salary for the past 10, so it ain’t Johnny-come-lately).
The difference in myself and the useless piece of human excrement that Mrs. Shaidle takes exception to is that my PARENTS did teach me what it was to be an ADULT, and after I realized how irresponsible I was being, I decided to become an ADULT, including later deciding to marry and raise a family. I made those choices because I had the necessary foundation to see what was right and good in being an ADULT instead of staying a CHILD.
And yes, I have chosen to be rude and yell certain words because they are what is missing in our society: PARENTS teaching their CHILDREN how to behave as ADULTS. Fix that and the harmless pursuits that have everyone from Mrs. Shaidle to almost every poster on this thread up in arms will take care of themselves.
Kathy isn’t writing about the parents, or the mom, or child rearing in general—a subject she’s unqualified for, since she doesn’t have any children. She’s writing about this guy, and how he exemplifies all that’s wrong with American manhood, and how all that’s wrong with American manhood can be fixed by reading biographies of the founding fathers, which will automatically inspire them to go out and find a job—or, at least, go stand in the unemployment line, since jobs are hard to come by, these days.
I’m sorry she had an encounter with an unpleasant relative, and that you had a bad restaurant experience, but I really don’t see these two incidents as an excuse for condemning an entire group of people with certain interests, hating the next generation and condemning all American parents as failures, because sometimes kids are less than perfect.
Betty, I agree that her focus is completely misplaced, but I was trying to point out that she actually did find the root of the problem. The fact that the mother in her story felt it appropriate to make excuses for her ADULT son is the root of the decline of our society. PARENTS have completely abdicated (or been forced to abdicate by the looney left) their responsibility for showing their CHILDREN how to be responsible ADULTS.
I assure you, if she actually bothered to check out the history of the great men she wants us all to learn from she would find that they were taught how to be ADULTS by responsible ADULTS before they had that mantle thrust on them.
Thank you for your insights, midnight, and that was the direction the discussion was intended to take, but trying to cut through the stupid to get there almost didn’t allow us to make it……
And, yes, the founding fathers were great, and well worthy of study, but I suspect any biographies about them, specifically created to wean our allegedly idle and worthless young from video games and Twilight novels will be overly hagiographic and whitewashed to max. All the interesting, darker, juicy bits left out, lest their inclusion fail to inspire said idle, worthless shiftless young. Hence, they’ll be completely ignored, except by the Left, which will denounce them as glorifying dead white males. . .
I know a lot of parents, and not all of them are spoiling their kids, or allowing them to live at home, in their 30′s. And they haven’t abidcated their role as parents.
Nor are these kids likely to be fixed by having (probably sweetned up, and cleaned up) biographies of great men forced on them. The quickest way to make somebody hate good literature, or history, or biographies, is to tell them it’s GOOD for them, and the mere, magical fact of reading them will make them forget about all that silly trash they like, and think CORRECT thoughts.
I think Kathy is over-generalizing. Also, parenthood really isn’t a topic she knows much about. And, yes, her focus is misplaced, and I suspect she, herself, has little interest in reading about those great men.
Conservatives have a real image problem. They need to address this.
“Conservatives have a real image problem”…. What a way to conclude your train wreck of an argument!
So… Shaidle wants to get losers to work for the government? That’s how Washington started out — as gov’t employee — surveyor for the county. Not sure what the lesson is that she thinks gets imparted.
You don’t need me to add that this “kid” I’ve been talking about is a big science-fiction fan who reads comic books, do you?
Well, yes, actually– and the idea that you connect being a 33 year old loser with being a geek, rather than being a child whose parents are actively enabling him in his dependency, tells me more about you than about 33 year old science fiction fans who read graphic novels. I happen to be married to one of those– he quit college when he ran out of money, rather than borrow for a “maybe,” joined the military because it would improve some flaws he saw in himself, and courted me the way that all the doom-and-gloom articles claim never happens anymore.
A lot of the other military technicians are very much the same; those who are married are quite responsible about it, those who aren’t still behave like adults.
In contrast, a lot of the turning-30-this-year kids I went to high school with, who are turning 30 now, tend to be more like the kid you’re talking about. They wouldn’t be caught dead watching scifi or playing computer games, let alone reading. (The girls MIGHT play farmville and read romances.)
The thing is that their parents gave them everything, and have continued to do so.
I am proud to say that I put this advice into use.
I recently visited a 33 year old acquaintance of mine. He also lives at home and spends time in geek pursuits. Using this wonderful article as a template to deal with him, I did the following things:
1. I brought a large stick, and beat him soundly with it.
2. I spoke at the top of my lungs, and encouraged him like so. “WHY AREN’T YOU READING ABOUT GEORGE WASHINGTON? YOU NEED TO GET MARRIED AND SAVE THE WORLD, YOU UNMANNED DRONE!”
3. I seasoned this choice advice by calling him a loser every fifteen seconds.
4. I insulted his choice of hobbies. “Ha, ha! Don’t you know that manga is coarse and boorish? Here, read a true man’s reading material! Behold, the Federalist Papers!”
5. I called him lazy, cowardly, and unmannish.
6. I recommended rather than live at home, where he could exist in foolish comfort, he should go and live in a leaky apartment with three other strangers and enjoy the life-affirming experiences of being poor, worrying about bills, and being mugged.
7. When he was curled in the fetal position, absorbing my wisdom, I left fulfilled.
I await the glorious fruit of this approach. Thank you for writing this article. Rather than focus on such silly things as encouraging men to be self-reliant for good reasons or condemning society for making it very hard for men to leave the nest, the strong, acidic, scolding approach you mentioned here will undoubtedly reconnect my friend to the larger world. I strongly suggest the suggestions in this article be distributed to high schools everywhere.
Thank you again.
Nah, he’d just say that you’re “judgemental.” (Yeah, scare quotes.) Guys his age and younger were brought up to believe that judging is bad. It’s not p.c.
And when people internalize that judgement is bad, don’t expect them to self reflect or make good decisions.
And honestly, any grown adult male (sorry, manhood doesn’t apply to these guys) who would curl up in the fetal position for being told a few honest truths needs a good kick in the pants. Gawd, this is what we get from the bike helmet, play date, driven everywhere,coddled and cocooned generation. Kid glove treatment for the rest of their lives.
Guessing you kind of missed the part about beating him with a large stick.
No, just addressing Drifting’s last paragraph. The world isn’t going to turn into a giant hot house for the adult male orchids of the world. 33 is long past the due date of nudging encouragement and gentle indoor voices. Sounds like it could have contributed to the problem in the first place with such guys.
I am proud to say that I put this advice into use.
I recently visited a 33 year old acquaintance of mine. He also lives at home and spends time in geek pursuits. Using this wonderful article as a template to deal with him, I did the following things:
1. Decided to pimp his ass out and told him; “You be turnin’ some tricks now and bring mama home some money or I’m gonna….”……
2. Dress him up in my lil’ black lacy two-piece……
3. Hang him by the wrists over the top of the door…….
4. Beat him with a lamp cord until his back is in tatters……
Doubt anything is constructive in this approach, but one of us is gonna be happy, dammit…….XD……….
Drifting, LOL, I’m dying here! (Hilarious!)
Um, grace, have you ever heard of those twin concepts, “Irony”, and “Humor”?
You really need to go back and re-read Drifting’s post. Or try to develop a sense of humor. (Blah, blah, blah, them young folks today, blah, blah, blah! Any man who would curl up in the foetal position, needs to go out and kill mammoths! Or something. When I was his age. . . blah, blah, blah.)
X, if my argument is such a train wreck, and conservatives don’t have an image problem, why don’t you prove me wrong, instead of screaming, and stamping your feet angrily?
Yeah, sarcasm/humor to get waggy fingered about not being sweet and indulgent toward such guys. That’s his parents deal, not every one elses.
A 33 year old man, no matter how spoiled as a child should be able to come up with a few reasons on his own why self reliance would be a good thing. Involuntary celebacy comes to mind. Respect goes to those who earn it, not to those who whine that it’s mean and unfair to judge him. Or that the rest of us should not be acidic.
As for blaming society for making it hard to leave the nest…seriously? Other than the boomers, has there ever been a generation in recorded history that had it easy in this regard?
I think “grace”‘s sense of humor was surgically removed at the same time as common sense was…fits the post, though.
On this topic, my sense of humor is definitely removed. I’ve been financially burned too many times by such people.