The New Apologists for the Muslim Brotherhood Intensify Their Whitewash
Each day, the apologists for the Muslim Brotherhood continue to carry on their propaganda campaign, meant to gain acceptance for the group’s participation in the new democratic Egypt. The most outrageous example comes from the International Herald Tribune, the English language daily of the New York Times in Europe. It is an op-ed from none other than the would-be moderate Muslim, Tariq Ramadan, who writes that “not only is Islamism a mosaic of widely differing trends and factions, but its many different facets have emerged over time and in response to historical shifts.”
The different facet, as you expected, is the Muslim Brotherhood, founded in 1928 by his grandfather, Hassan al-Banna. Ramadan continues:
The Muslim Brothers began in the 1930s as a legalist, anti-colonialist and nonviolent movement that claimed legitimacy for armed resistance in Palestine against Zionist expansionism during the period before World War II. The writings from between 1930 and 1945 of Hassan al-Banna, founder of the Brotherhood, show that he opposed colonialism and strongly criticized the fascist governments in Germany and Italy. He rejected use of violence in Egypt, even though he considered it legitimate in Palestine, in resistance to the Zionist Stern and Irgun terror gangs. He believed that the British parliamentary model represented the kind closest to Islamic principles.
Al-Banna’s objective was to found an “Islamic state” based on gradual reform, beginning with popular education and broad-based social programs. He was assassinated in 1949 by the Egyptian government on the orders of the British occupiers.
We know, thanks largely to the writer Paul Berman, that Ramadan’s reputation as an insightful moderate is itself a falsehood. In a much discussed 2007 essay in TNR, and later in his important book The Flight of the Intellectuals, Berman notes that the writer Paul Landau describes “al-Banna, in his position as chief guide of the Muslim Brotherhood, as a figure comparable to Il Duce and the Führer. Landau attributes a lot of importance to al-Banna’s friendship with Haj Amin al-Husseini, the mufti of Jerusalem—who, as Hitler’s ally, helped organize a Muslim division of the Waffen-SS and then, after the war, when he was wanted for war crimes (owing to his SS division), succeeded in escaping to Egypt, thanks to help from al-Banna himself.” Berman writes that al-Banna had the following goals:
the creation of a properly Muslim individual person, in thought and belief; of a properly Muslim family; of a properly Muslim people or community; of an Islamic state; and, finally, the resurrection of the ancient Islamic Empire—which al-Banna describes by referring admiringly to what he calls the “German Reich” and to Mussolini’s dream of a resurrected Roman Empire, though naturally al-Banna regards his own resurrected Islamic Empire as vastly preferable and theologically more legitimate than anything Mussolini could have contemplated.
To put it simply, al-Banna had a fascist program in mind, and his conception of the Brotherhood was anything but non-violent, or a parliamentary Western model of government, or legalist. Two Iranian scholars he quotes, Ladan and Royan Boroumand, also point out that “[f]rom the Fascists—and behind them, from the European tradition of putatively ‘transformative’ or ‘purifying’ revolutionary violence that began with the Jacobins—Banna also borrowed the idea of heroic death as a political art form.”
There is much more to learn, which you can do by buying Berman’s book or reading his article. Leave it to the editors of the IHT to run Ramadan’s article, from which readers will gain a false impression about the origins of the Brotherhood, and which, without the antidote of someone like Paul Berman to inform them about the truth, they will accept as proof of the reasonable program of the Muslim Brotherhood.
One other point about Ramadan’s disingenuous article. He refers to al-Banna’s claim that his grandfather favored “legitimate” opposition to the extremist Irgun and Stern gangs in pre-1948 Jewish Palestine, against which he said violence could be used. Those who know anything about the two Jewish terrorist groups know that the mainstream Zionists opposed them as counter-productive and even called them fascist, and that the leader of the Yishuv and Israel’s first prime minister, David Ben-Gurion, ordered the Haganah to stop them by force. What al-Banna favored was violence against the entire Jewish community in Palestine, and its just effort to create a Jewish state and to oppose the British control of the Mandate.
Anyone who takes Ramadan’s assurances that today’s Brotherhood is modern, favors “the Turkish example” of Islam (he does not talk about what happened in Turkey with that model in the very recent past), and wishes only to participate in the democratic transition is accepting assurances from a very tainted and unreliable source. Moreover, even Ramadan lets the cat out of the bag when he writes that “the Muslim Brotherhood’s leadership has signaled that now is not the time to expose itself by making political demands that might frighten the West, not to mention the Egyptian people. Caution is the watchword.”
Translated, you can get the gist of what the Brotherhood’s leaders really want; i.e., to proclaim their true agenda when the time is ripe, when they can advance to the Islamic state and take the secular Egyptian populace along for the ride, and when they no longer have to worry about frightening the West. It is the tactic of the stealth jihad, of which Ramadan himself is a good example of one of its top practitioners.
Many in this country will not trust Tariq Ramadan, especially after they have read Berman. Others, however, carry on with their own work to whitewash the Brotherhood. The most recent example comes from Foreign Affairs, in the form of a new essay by Carrie Rosefsky Wickham, associate professor of political science at Emory University. Professor Wickham too assures us we do not have to fear the group. She writes:
Those who emphasize the risk of “Islamic tyranny” aptly note that the Muslim Brotherhood originated as an anti-system group dedicated to the establishment of sharia rule; committed acts of violence against its opponents in the pre-1952 era; and continues to use anti-Western, anti-Zionist, and anti-Semitic rhetoric. But portraying the Brotherhood as eager and able to seize power and impose its version of sharia on an unwilling citizenry is a caricature that exaggerates certain features of the Brotherhood while ignoring others, and underestimates the extent to which the group has changed over time.
Unlike Ramadan, she does not accept his version of the Brotherhood’s program in the early pre-1952 era. Instead, she assures us that they have changed. Readers of PJM, having read many of Barry Rubin’s entries detailing the current Brotherhood program, are by now well acquainted with what its leaders believe in the present. Rubin has pointed to their recent gatherings, as well as the words of its leaders in our own day and age. So has Glenn Beck in this week’s programs about the Brotherhood, in which — contrary to what his critics say about him — he has accurately portrayed what they believe.
But according to Professor Wickham, the Brotherhood always had good aims. Contrary to what Berman has proved, she asserts:
It was initially established not as a political party but as a da’wa (religious outreach) association that aimed to cultivate pious and committed Muslims through preaching, social services, and spreading religious commitment and integrity by example. The group saw its understanding of Islam as the only “true” one and condemned partisanship as a source of national weakness. It called on Egyptians to unite to confront the forces of Zionism and imperialism and pursue economic development and social justice.
Who can oppose such noble goals, like fighting “Zionism and imperialism” — the two are equated — and creating “social justice”?
Professor Wickham then argues that although they eventually entered politics to change the system, the system changed them. The result: “Islamists and Arabists found common ground in the call for an expansion of public freedoms, democracy, and respect for human rights and the rule of law, all of which, they admitted, their movements had neglected in the past.” Evidently she has not read the most recent statements indicating that Brotherhood leaders are still neglecting them.
Rather, she assures us that today “its leadership is more internally diverse today than ever before.” She continues to describe the group’s three major factions, assuring readers that its “pragmatic conservatives” and the weaker yet influential “Islamic democracy activists” are the group’s real future. ElBaradei’s chief spokesman, she informs us, is part of its “reformist wing.” Thus she praises the Brotherhood’s willingness to not play a major role at present, to concentrate on joining with others to force Mubarak to resign immediately, and to create “an interim government palatable to the military and the West.”
I agree that its leaders, as she puts it, are “savvy,” and that hence it does not want to “invite the risk of a military coup by attempting to seize power on its own.” But such an understanding on the Brotherhood’s part does not show anything but a desire to wait until the moment is ripe to attain what it has always wanted — an Islamic state based on sharia law. It hardly proves that the group has changed its openly stated agenda.
Indeed, even Professor Wickham ends with some qualifiers of her own; i.e., “[i]t remains to be seen whether the Brotherhood as an organization — not only individual members — will accept a constitution that does not at least refer to sharia; respect the rights of all Egyptians to express their ideas and form parties; clarify its ambiguous positions on the rights of women and non-Muslims; develop concrete programs to address the nation’s toughest social and economic problems; and apply the same pragmatism it has shown in the domestic arena to issues of foreign policy, including relations with Israel and the West.”
Professor Wickham should not hold her breath. All indications reveal only that she and others are confusing their own wishful thinking with reality. What she says about the Brotherhood, that “the best way to strengthen its democratic commitments is to include it in the political process,” is precisely what so many pundits said about Hamas in the Gaza Strip before it seized power and instituted a mini Islamic state. What happened is exactly the opposite; it used political power to oppose not only democrats, but the secular Fatah that shared its goal of destroying Israel and creating a Palestinian unitary state in place of Israel.
Her final words are these: “With a track record of nearly 30 years of responsible behavior (if not rhetoric) and a strong base of support, the Muslim Brotherhood has earned a place at the table in the post-Mubarak era. No democratic transition can succeed without it.” She has it backwards. The truth is that a democratic transition the Egyptian people want will not succeed with the Muslim Brotherhood. Only its defeat will assure that outcome.






anwar sadat is unavailable for comment
Bingo. The only reason the MB isn’t all that active is the repression of Mubarak’s regime.
There’s also this:
http://www.theworld.org/2011/02/01/egypt%E2%80%99s-muslim-brotherhood/
“Werman: Are you saying there would be no Sharia law, then, in Egypt? Is that a scenario that would never happen there?
El-Halbawy: No, no. Not at present. Not maybe for 10, 20 years, unless the people ask for it and they vote for the Sharia laws.”
It’s a 20 year plan for the MB to take over Egypt. The real problem is there is no other organized opposition alternative to the MB.
You know, it’s funny: on three different web forums over the last couple of days, I’ve seen unknown new posters appear, trying to spread the fuzzy-wuzzy peaceful MB line./ Organized push?
We, the American public, are almost totally in the dark about the “muslim brotherhood”
…the only place that I have heard much about it,
who they are,
what they do,
where they are here in the USA,
is on the FOX program Glenn Beck.
The liberal press/MSM is trying to say he is lying, he says” prove it”. I believe that anything to do with Islam is dangerous, anything. The public just seems uninformed to the real dangers.
astroturfing..
The Muslim Brotherhood have ramped up their efforts lately. It’s because of the support they’ve been getting from the Obozo Administration.
The MB are also heavily involved in the ongoing attempt to peddle their propaganda at Virginia Military Institute.
See:
What To Do about Enemy Propaganda at VMI?
The Muslim Brotherhood – soon to appear at a CPAC near you. Unfortunately, that is not a joke.
they’re having trouble getting speakers….few want to connect with them it seems
http://bigpeace.com/swheeler/2011/02/08/obama-allies-organizing-terrorists/
the obama connection, smells like treason to me. where is the secret service ?
I don’t know how anyone could read about Mohammad and think he has anything to contribute to humanity. Murder, rape, and robbery. He is the moral equivalent of Attila the Hun.
do not forget..pedophile
Any responsible behavior from the Muslim Brotherhood in the last 30 years would seem to be an enforced one rather than any dream of purring kitty cats snuggling up around a democratic fire.
The MB is something of a mystery to the West and that is an understatement. Do they wish democracy for room to maneuver themselves or for the Egyptian people? The MB would seem to be anything but an entity which would write “The Federalist Papers”.
Rather than having an understanding of how their own religion has held back Islam for centuries and so to separate it from the government, they seem to have a rhetoric that is laced with religion.
The great weakness of the MB and the Egyptian zeitgeist is this thing they have with Israel which can only result in ruin for Egypt. Nobody in the outside world cares about Oct.6 this and Oct.6 that. The other great weakness as far as Islam in general is that they love to play poker but always want the chips back when they lose and they always frickin’ lose; of course that produces hostility against the West; they are constantly speaking on cell phones whose fractal geometry they would probably worship if they even knew it existed.
Even radical Islam’s one great triumph, 9/11, had to be enacted in a vacuum of military competence and when that vacuum brought in the troops Al-Queda’s triumph murdered tens of thousands of muslims as America answered in the same fashion as Pearl Harbor. A few more of those kind of triumphs and Islam will be worshiping a giant photo of a meteor in a place called New Mecca.
It’s like an office manager continually going one-on-one with Michael Jordan cuz he has some idea in his head that he should be able to play him or that he used to be able to play him or God says Jordan can’t win in the end. Worshiping meteors is not conducive to good government.
In the end what the West thinks of the MB won’t matter because they cannot understand internal Egyptian politics let alone control them and all the PEW research polls in the world won’t help by asking leading questions about cutting off hands. The best bet for the West is to understand that the idea of greater Arab pan-nationalism is far from dead in Egypt but it is a pipe dream that can be easily managed but only from the outside in terms of checkmates.
The MB won’t be too popular in Egypt when people in the south start losing even their donkeys. In this sense I would say to the MB, “Welcome to the world of capitalism and reality. Have a nice day. Don’t forget to keep the sand off the Sphinx for the day when the tourist dollars to the tune of 25 billion a year come back.”
Successfully hating Israel and dressing up women in jilbab’s will wreck the Egyptian economy which is just barely holding its own as it is. The MB’s battle is half won since a woman in Egypt would no more think of living alone in an apartment than she would of drinking Jack Daniels from the bottle in Tahrir Square. It’s not a law, just the force of family and tradition.
However the West’s greatest weapons, Facebook and the Avatar sequels will put paid to any creeping shadow from the Muslim Brotherhood. Islam will have to advance just a little beyond the pressing buttons on a keyboard stage or relying on their women to pump out babies liberal immigration in the West will take in like 5th columnist’s in order to take over the world.
The New York Review of Books has an article entitled, “Washington’s Secret History with
the Muslim Brotherhood” by Ian Johnson
http://www.nybooks.com/blogs/nyrblog/2011/feb/05/washingtons-secret-history-muslim-brotherhood/
You can see the official photo of President Dwight D. Eisenhower in the Oval Office with a group of Muslim delegates, 1953. Said Ramadan is second from the right. The USA has had relations with the Brotherhood for many decades. Do not rely on dear old sectarian Dr. Radosh to do your homework for you. He will not tell you all you need to know. Time to grow up, Mr. Jones.
Amazing how moderate the visible contingent of an outlawed political/religious/military organization. I’m sure that will remain the rule after they get the keys to those cells. Expediency and Egyptian prisons can be very moderating.
You lost me at the endorsment of Glann Beck. So the mediteranean is on fire, England in revolt and the russians poised to invade the netherlands in your world, mr.Radosh?
Just turn over and go back to sleep, Fnord. Nothing to worry about. Just a bad dream.
Big day at school tomorrow. You don’t want to miss the field truip to 13th century, do you?
Righto, Cris. Must not let facts get in the way of paranoia, must we? Glenn Beck is basically making stuff up, but it sure gets the old adrenaline rushing, doesnt it?
You guys seem unable to argue anything without resorting to hyperbole. You are addicted to your supervillains. The MB is indeed a worrying organization with many different views within the same structure. But to think that they will invade south Europe? Preaching that Europe is “on fire”? Painting muslims as a force that wants to take us all back to the 13th century? Gimme a break. It just makes you all look silly to endorse Beck and his Bircher-on-Steroids rants.
lol
they (muslim brotherhood) are in europe and they are in north america.
there are people in europe and canada charged with hate crimes for just saying what is in the koran.
sure they aren’t going to invade europe they are in europe. in one generation they could be the majority of the population. In FRANCE they are still burning cars …where is the news coverage ..it isn’t pensioners burning them ..it is muslims.
Glenn Beck is not fear mongering ..it is all actual news. unlike where you get your information from.
Cabeza: So in one generation, the approx 16 million muslims of Europe will subjugate the other 400+ million citizens and rule?
Pragmatist: Ah, those pesky muslim subhumans, eh? Sneakily working on their plans for world dominance, controlling the oil and using the banks to buy politicans.
See, you folks, you are flat out talking crazy, believing Beck over reality. You are sounding more and more like classical anti-semites. I cant understand what a guy like M. Totten is doing on this site.
it is not a question about believing Beck …I don’t watch him very often but do if I get the chance, I find that his research is good. He has done more for educating the american people about what the obama administration is doing and giving history of the USA that is no longer PC.
I don’t actually hear new stuff on his program as it is widely disseminated information. I have heard and read those things before in different forms and books (obviously not in circles you travel).
all of this information is backed up unlike yours,
you are following the alinsky principals of trying to ridicule people ..like those that watch Beck. get or try to come up with some thoughts of your own ..I have heard all the leftist tripe before.
Fnord dont spout off and act like a naive, gullible moonbat . Islam and Islamic organizations do not go anywhere or join any organization to INTEGRATE they join to subvert and DOMINATE.
Fnord is one of those leftists who thinks that allying with the MB advances his cause, and that the MB can be ‘taken care of’ later. He doesn’t understand that the MB has the same plan, and they play lots rougher than him.
Before you start critizing that which you obviously know nothing about ,I strongly suggest you “Google” the Muslim Brotherhood and become educated and not assume the position “I Know What I Know, Don’t Confuse Me With Fact”.
Prove what he says is wrong instead of calling names.
Radosh and Berman peddle hysteria like rotten fish in bulky packaging. Anyone with the slightest knowledge about Egypt knows that Gary Bauer has more sway in America than the MB over there. Why does Pajamas allow such inane commentary to pass as sober analysis? It only marginalizes you further.
How many Bolsheviks did it take to overthrow the established order in Russia and launch the USSR?
How many Nazis did it take to take over the Wiemar Republic via the Gleichschaltung?
Raw numbers are not as important as you appear to believe.
SunSword: You have the right historical perspective. It is often not “how” many people you have in starting a revolution. It is how devious, subversive, dedicated and deadly that they are at the right time. Lenin understood this. Hitler understood this. And the Moslem extremists not only understand this, they practice it every day of their existence.
It took only 19 Islamic extremists to kill 3,000 people on 9/11, and to destroy the Twin Towers, several other large NYC buildings, damage many others, destroy a large part of our financial system, destroy 4 airplanes full of people, damage the Pentagon (a few miles from where I live), and totally disrupt the American way of life, even till today (try getting on a plane without a delay).
We had a taste of this when the Weather Underground bombers went on their rampages, along with the Black Panther Party killings, the FALN bombings/killings, the SLA killings, the ELF sabotage of forests and destruction of buildings, etc.
I once told a class of policemen that I could isolate Wash. D.C. from the rest of the country with a few dozen well-armed men. It is easy to do. All you have to do is to have good planning, the explosives and arms needed, and a hardcore trained group of men and women who are willing to use them.
The Moslem Brotherhood is one of those groups, waiting, plotting, infiltrating, recruiting, practicing disinformation and ocassionally killing off opponents (using affinity groups as their assassins).
Col. Hassan killed 16 soldiers at Ft. Hood all by himself. He was “within the belly of the beast” and he struck hard, fast, and deadly. There were warning signs but the Politically Correct mentality in play in the military ignored those signs. After 16 dead, you would think that we would have woken up by now. You would think!
Intrigued by this talk of Beck and the MB I read a few of his latest rush transcripts on Fox. To say that Beck is utterly uninformed and unprepared on his general comments about Islam is a vast understatement.
He throws out entirely disparate ideas with no sense or backing to them, never follows up on them and drones on until the hour is apparently finished. The day Shi’ites and Sunnis shake hands to fight the West is the day Betty Crocker is resurrected and builds a rocket to Mars for NASA.
Well, Beck says they’ll settle their diffences later. Beck’s program about Egypt and the ripple effects is similarly constructed where he throws out nonsense that at some point in the future might actually be explained in a way that some glimpse of reality might fight its way onto the program.
Remember the old BBC program “Connections” with James Burke? Beck is the complete opposite on this issue of Islam since there are no connections I could ferret out from his completely obtuse remarks.
So Turkey, Iran and the Egypt all want their very own Caliphate. How nice for them. All they have to do is acquire all the things the West does that they cannot do and it’s a done deal.
Successful technical and social innovations are not something that immediately comes to mind when it comes to Islam.
Even the lowliest hillbilly in America can build an engine or car from scratch and race vehicles through swamps or dirt tracks. In Cairo, the sidewalks are death traps that requires as much attention as hiking the frickin’ Inca Trail. They do have street lights for traffic in Cairo but as far as I can tell they haven’t actually lit up in 30 years and would be ignored in any case.
I watched them renovate my hotel in Cairo. 9 stories up they laid vast quantities of sand over everything til I thought the floor would cave in. I told the owner that if an American construction worker saw what was happening they’d have a heart attack laughing uncontrollably.
Beck should broadcast live from Tahrir Square. Now that’d be a hoot. If he applied his mad conspiracy theories to Israel they’d probably elect him President on the spot because here, it’s the thought that counts. After all, wishing is probably the number one most popular hobby within Islam. That’s what happens when reality is temporarily unavailable, like forever.
Or Beck could read the “Federalist Papers” to the crowd and become a martyr on the spot. When it comes to the MB, Code Pink, Van Jones, communism and all the rest of the nonsense even Nick Charles couldn’t sort out, it’s hard to imagine the level of ignorance required to find that particular program educational.
Shi’ite and Sunni have cooperated on numerous occasions against the infidel (us). Don’t delude yourself.
I haven’t been so your admonition is nuncupatory, in the Vancian sense of course.
James May: Lol, I admire your tenacity but trying to talk sense here is an exercise in futility. These folks dont deal with reality, they prefer to live in a universe of supervillains and superheros. They seem to forget that the soldiers fighting alongside US troops in Afghanistan and Iraq are muslims too. Whats more, they dont get the fact of human complexity, how someone par example can support a Muslim Brotherhood politician *because at least he is not corrupt* and still not subscribe to their teachings as Holy Writ. They dont see the christians and muslims holding guard at each others prayer, because they have bought the idea that all muslims are bad and evil and minions of Satan.
Unfortunately, that makes it much harder for rational westerners to fight extremism in islam, because they can just point at sites like this to prove that “we” hate them. In that sense, these folks are great logistic support for Al Quaeda.
Having been in both Cairo and hiked the Inca Trail, it is obvious you know nothing about the Inca Trail. It is hardly a death trap, with thousands of tourists a year hiking it. Which makes your ‘nothing to see here, move along’ claims about the Islamic fascists pretty much just drivel.
I’ve hiked the Inca Trail twice, there are many parts, particularly after the first pass where you must watch where you put your feet every second or it’s broken ankle time.
Obviously I was joking about death trap but some overly literate children must have their hands held in every word. Having said that, there are parts of the Inca Trail that are sheer drop offs hundreds of feet with little awareness of it since the edge is covered in thin brush and no rails.
In Cairo, there are holes in the sidewalk, 2 inches of pipe sticking up in the middle of a sidewalk, low traffic and other signs, and in particular 2 ft. armored barriers in between parked cars.
Add all that up for an American used to walking clean side walks or walking in between parked cars and it is like a mine field compared to the U.S. as are all Third World cities, from Rio to Djakarta, Guatemala City to Kathmandu.
The JP has an excellent article on MB
http://www.jpost.com/MiddleEast/Article.aspx?id=207415
Q.E.D.
From an organization that gave us Ayman al-Zawahiri, Osama bin Laden’s No. 2 man, Mohamed Atta, the leader of the 9/11 attack against us, and Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the mastermind of the 9/11 attack and the man who sawed off the head of journalist Daniel Pearl (remember him?), and for an organization that even recently called for a war with Israel, we are now to believe that the Muslim Brotherhood is a bastion of Democracy and a “peaceful” organization? Our State Department and Obama can’t be that dumb, can they? Either that or they don’t mind seeing another radical/militant Islamic nation created right on the border with Israel. Yep, that sure is a better alternative to Mubarak.
Takyiia is a wonderful thing: the fatithfull can lie for the sake of Islam with a clear conscience, because it is for the sake of Allah and his prophet(PBUH).
Such delicious irony. Both groups advocate for peace and freedom. Both groups lend their support to the other.
And both groups are confident that that they can ‘take care of’ (I think you know what I mean) the other after they gain power and drop the velvet goves.
“Those who know anything about the two Jewish terrorist groups [Irgun and Stern Gang] know that the mainstream Zionists opposed them as counter-productive and even called them fascist….”
So maybe there’s hope for the MB yet. After all, a leader of the Irgun, Menachem Begin, became a founder of the Likud and later … well, you know the rest.
Ron,
No need to make excuses for Irgun or Stern. Neither would have existed if the legitimate rights of the Jews in Israel had been acknowledged and the Brits had not decided to impede Jewish immigration to Israel when Europe was turning us into lampshades and soap.
Any comparison of the Jewish liberation movements and Islamic or or other movements should always make two points-
One, Jews have no desire to impose their religious beliefs on others.
Two, We demand sovereignty over a specific and small territory with no ambitions for more.
I thank G-d for both Irgun and Stern and honor their sacrifice. So should every Jew.
So – MY terrorists are good and YOUR terrorists are bad? very convincing.
” So – MY terrorists are good and YOUR terrorists are bad? ”
No. There is a difference between George Washington, who was labeled a terrorist by Britain and Osama Bin Laden, who actually is a terrorist.
Sadly, for some, the differences between the two are obscure.
On the other hand, those who retain a moral compass can tell the difference.
well put
regards
Those of us, that know history, do honor them. Countless lives of Jewish people, remnants of decimated families of European countries, have been saved by them. Dishonesty and treachery of British army and government in Palestine are the once to be put to blame. Not many people, or should I say very few people read the REAL HISTORY.
We remember them, and thank them for saved lives.
Ahh the Muslim Brotherhood the allies of the Nazis in WWII. Most Muslims will tell you that Islam strictly forbids killing ‘innocents’ and even point you to the Koranic verse which indeed does say that, but what they dont tell you and show you is the Koranic verse which says ONLY Muslims can be considered innocent. Once you know that then what Islam is and what Islam does sort of falls in to place. The lying HYPOCRITES.
that is the beauty of their duplicity …to them there are no innocents so kill away.
The part of the Muslim Brotherhood’s manifesto where they set out their goals of destroying western civilization from within that jumps out at me is where they say “and sabotaging their miserable house by their hands and the hands of the believers.” The reference to THEIR HANDS is a clear sign that they understand our preoccupation with political correctness and multiculturalism and they intend to take full advantage of it. Every time I hear some politician or media sap trying to put a kindly face on these termites the line “by their hands” immediately comes to mind.
Pragmatist in his #14 says it perfectly…..”that Islam strictly forbids killing ‘innocents’ and even point you to the Koranic verse which indeed does say that, but what they dont tell you and show you is the Koranic verse which says ONLY Muslims can be considered innocent.”
These Koran-Thumpers maintain their own elastic definitions. That they are indeed “lying hypocrites” is so firmly established makes it a terrible puzzle as to why we have permitted their BS to permeate as much as it has…via our political correctness, which in and of itself is so very short-sighted.
Are our elected politicians so adamant on staying in office that they bend so readily to every perceived fleeting fashion that they at the same time are perpetuating this circular malaise?…indeed, they seem to make up their very own “brotherhood”?
It would seem so, and then what is needed is another, broader, “shellacking” to clean out these democratically elected hypocrites inside our own Congress. Maybe this idea is taking hold now in this Teaparty movement that seems unafraid to say, “A pox on both your houses”.
Regarding lying and the “Koran”, the following sheds some light on the subject.
“Muslim scholars teach that Muslims should generally be truthful to each other, unless the purpose of lying is to “smooth over differences.”
There are two forms of lying to non-believers that are permitted under certain circumstances, taqiyya and kitman. These circumstances are typically those that advance the cause Islam – in some cases by gaining the trust of non-believers in order to draw out their vulnerability and defeat them.
I think that any and all political parties largely comprised of radical religious bigots should be banned in democracies. Countries should have a strict separation between church and state, and nobody should be trying to get religiously-inspired laws passed that trample on the rights of those who don’t believe in their crazy cult.
Yep, you heard right. We must ban the Republican Party.
George Washington would agree with you in that political parties are bad. And you were remiss in leaving out the Democrat, Green, and Communist parties. Their “religion” is one of the worst.
Tariq Ramadan: “Not only is Islamism a mosaic of widely differing trends and factions, but its many different facets have emerged over time and in response to historical shifts.”
True that; The current historical shift in Egypt provides
an opportunity for the emergence of the violent extremist
fanatics, those who will intimidate or eliminate all the
others in order to impose their will.
There is a scene in ‘Dr. Zhivago’ between a naive woman
and a Made Man (Russian style):
NW: There are many men in other revolutionary groups who
____will oppose your attempt to take control.
MM: You are correct. I have their names and addresses in
____this book, and I have spent the day going around Moscow
____and shooting them with this pistol.
I
Following Mohammad is correct Islam. The Muslim brotherhood is not extreme, as they follow Mohammad.
What did Mohammad do? Murder, rape, and take what was not his from the Infidel, or any Arab that disagreed with him.
The only extreme Muslims are called Apostates.
such noble goals, like fighting “Zionism and imperialism” — the two are equated — and creating “social justice”?
Hmm perfect match with Obamao-
run over Israel with a bus- empower ISLAM inside and outside USA
fight imperialism- by refusing to take a lead and advocating mediocrity and “equalness” with lesser nations, embrace socialism
and my fave- “social justice”- (collective salvation by govt fiat) and get revenge on evil white men
Cabeza de vaca: I do not need to ridicule you, when you posit that muslims will over-run Europe in a generation you do it perfectly well yourself. I can respect fact-based people of any political stripe, as long as they relate to reality and employ honest argumentation. But the arguments of Glenn Beck do simply not co-relate with reality. Sure, there are problems in the cultural conflict between religious islam and secular Europe. But its not a civilizational existential conflict. Sharia law is not coming, the muslims are not getting ready to slaughter us in our beds. I live in an area with 20% muslims of Oslo, I have worked with muslims and I am as blond and aryan as they come.
You are doing Al Quaeda a favour by generalizing in this manner, it is just what bin Laden wanted: A clash of “civilizations”, a thrid world war. Why on earth would we want the terrorists to win? Hundreds of thousands of muslims have worked alongside the US Army, both in Iraq, Afghanistan and around the world. Please show them some respect, they have died alongside your soldiers in great numbers.
you sound like an apologist for the muslims.
Heym Johnny, I didnt know that the Afghan army (ANA) did have anything to apologize to the west for. We asked them to stand up, and they did. Same with the Awakening folks in Iraq. There are US troopers interacting every day with muslim allies. Get a grip, if they all wanted to kill us we would have been out of there long time ago. Unless you think that “our” muslims are not real muslims, of course. Or lying, just to get back at us later. In wich case, I point you to previous anti-semitic fantasies.
you are mistaking me for an American. I am a Mexican.
I think what the USA is doing is foolish. You coddle the muslims and they plan to take over from the inside. The sad fact is that the president will abandon the muslims in Afghanistan that stood by the American soldiers. Your diatribe is misplaced.
not just a troll a muslim apologist troll
” I am as blonde and aryan as they come. ”
Guess that means your next.
http://www.norwaypost.no/news/planned-terrorist-attack-against-oslo-synagogue.html
Unless and until the Muslim Brotherhood repudiates its Hamas Covenant, it cannot be viewed as anything like a benign organization.
This expose of the Muslim Brotherhood is interesting and enlightening. But I’m not sure that I see any US policy solutions that can address the potential threat posed by the Brotherhood. The current policy of promoting elections towards the end of the year, to give all the various groups in Egypt a chance to mobilize and appeal to the people, seems sensible.
Fnord, it’s not that every Muslim is a terrorist, of course. Neither it was the case with Germany and Italy in the 30s: my grandfather knew a lot of agreeable and cultured Germans – and Italians! -, even people actually part of the Nazi party (my grandfather was a professional officer in the Italian army). I know several Communists – mainly civilized persons – who proudly extol the USSR to this day.
Unfortunately Nazi Germany and the USSR have been tragically bad countries, despite all good intention and gullibility by the like of Chamberlain and F.D. Roosevelt.
I don’t know how you like Iran, Hamas, Hezbollah, or Pakistan with its beautiful blasphemy laws: all of them have been defended by some smart western pundit; don’t you see any chance of adding another item to the long list of the left’s failed icons (Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Ho-Chi-Min, Pol-Pot, Castro, Khomeini), and then just forget and never talk about the victims and your support?
I hope there won’t be a clash of civilization here in Europe, but actually there IS a growing Islamic community that just want it and with impunity and shrewdness talk and act accordingly – not to speak of the daily slaughter of some Christian/Buddhist/…/infidel around the world (causing the most deafening silence by the left). I don’t remember any protest by the MB, instead I saw many video displaying the rhetoric used by such people when they gather. If you’re blind…
I keep on singing the same song over and over and nobody seems to get the meaning.
Obama and his henchmen are rooting for the rioters in Egypt. Obama wants the Muslim Hooded clan to have a prominent place in the government. Why? Because it would be bad for America. Since day one of his administration, Obama has in one way or another been out to destroy the America you know and love; the one that makes the world safe for democracy; the one that’s shed blood time after time in war after war to break the chains of world enslavement, be it directed by Japan, Germany or Russia.
Obama hates England. And has no time for Israel, not even enough time for lunch.
There’s a mole in the White House that’s doing grave danger to America and our Constitution. His idiot rules of engagement in Afghanistan are getting thousands of Marines killed.
Obama is the poison pill that evil has long wanted to jam down the throat of America. It’s time we spit it right back in his face.
Fnord,
The word “ariyan” is an Indic word and means “noble one”. The root word of the word “ariyan” is “ariya”, which means “noble”. The word “ariyan” is a word that ancient Indic people in Asia referred to their social group as being. Approximately 100 years ago, racist, ideologically genocidally anti-Jewish, ethnically North-European, culturally Christian-European, North-European-supremacists who held a “Jewish-conspiracy”-theory ideology adopted the word “ariyan” as a name which they subsequently began to use as a name for the ethnically North-European ethnic group to which they belonged and which they viewed as being an ethnic group whose members they viewed as constituting the most superior group of people in the world.
In Addition:
Every person who has ever believed that false accusations against the Jewish people that such persons, at that time, have believed, have believed, at that time, that those false accusations, at that time, have been obviously true, and have believed that they, themselves, at that time, were rightous and noble in accusing and blaming the falsely accused Jewish people, and in defending the non-Jewish attackers of the falsely accused Jewish people.
False accusations that have been propagated against, and believed about, the Jewish people, as a collective group of people, have always been propagated by, and have always been believed by, the majority of the members of the academic, and intellectual, and journalistic, and religious clerical, and political, classes of the societies in which those false accusations against the Jewish people, as a collective group of people, have been propagated and believed.
Almost all Jewish people experience, to varying degrees, a deep profound form of Stockholm Syndrome – which is a delusional, detrimental, unwholesome, state of mind.
In experiencing this unwholesome state of mind, Jewish people do the following things.
O Jewish people, in general, accept, to varying degrees, false accusations that are made against themselves, or against other Jewish people, by non-Jewish people who are attacking them.
O Jewish people who are experiencing this unwholesome state of mind to only a relatively mild degree, and who, therein, are not completely delusional, and who try to verbally defend themselves who are being attacked and falsely accused by non-Jewish people, and who try to verbally defend other Jewish people who are being attacked and falsely accused by non-Jewish people, are psychologically overwhelmed and are not able to clearly communicate the reality of the situation.
O Some Jewish people – Jewish people who are experiencing extremely severe forms of this unwholesome state of mind – are fervent propagators of, and are the most influential propagators of, lies that vilify the Jewish people who are being attacked and flasely accused by non-Jewish people.
The inventor of the murder-and-cannibalism-of-European-Christian-children-libel (the “Blood Libel”) that Christian European people propagated against the Jewish people for several hundred years was an ethnically Jewish man named Theobald of Cambridge who was a Christian convert who lived in England in the 1100′s.
Currently, at this time, because, currently, at this time, there is huge global propagation of, and huge global belief in, lies that vilify the country of Jewish people – Israel – many Jewish people, and especially many Jewish (non-Israeli and Israeli) academics, intellectuals, and journalists, are experiencing this delusional unwholesome state of mind to a severe degree, and, as part of that, some of the most fervent, and the most influential, propagators of lies that vilify Israel and that obfuscate the reality of the situation are Jewish.
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I, in reply to a comment that a commenter with your moniker, who I think was you, wrote on another blog, wrote, on that blog, a summary of the factual, currently 94-year history of the situation that Israel is in. Apparently you either didn’t read those facts that I wrote, or the views that you hold about the Jewish people are so bigoted and antipathetic that you are completely impervious to reason, and, therefore, either don’t believe those facts that I wrote, or are unable to understand the meaning of those facts that I wrote.
I hope that you are not completely impervious to reason, and I am writing the following information in that hope.
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The following are the two parts of an audio recording (split into two parts) of a reading, by Oriana Fallaci, of an article, by Oriana Fallaci, which addresses the current state of the political Left in Western (culturally Christian-European (Christian and post-Christian)) countries. Orianna wrote the following article in 2002. Oriana Fallaci was a journalist who opposed fascism, and who fought against fascism. Orianna Falaci fought, as a partisan, against the Nazi-German-allied Fascist regime of Italy during World War II, and died in 2006, at the age of 77. I hope that you will listen to the following recording.
ORIANA FALLACI – ON ANTISEMITISM-I find it shameful\SULL’ANTISEMITISMO-Io trovo vergognoso (pt.1/2); (Video)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lS9Dl5YEy3o
ORIANA FALLACI – ON ANTISEMITISM-I find it shameful\SULL’ANTISEMITISMO-Io trovo vergognoso (pt.2/2); (Video)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anTPuAQ1oUU
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The following are a link to, and an excerpt from, an article which describes and explains the nature of the state of mind that many people, apparently including yourself, are currently experiencing. I hope that you will read the following excerpt, and I hope that the following excerpt may be enlightening for you.
“The Anti-Semite’s Pointed Finger”, by Ruth R. Wisse, November 2010
https://www.commentarymagazine.com/viewarticle.cfm/the-anti-semite-s-pointed-finger-15563?page=all
Excerpt from “The Anti-Semite’s Pointed Finger”, by Ruth R. Wisse (Explanation of the nature of the situation of anti-Jewish (anti-Israeli) bigoted-prejudice/malicious-political-utility/politically-”Liberal”-mass-hysteria):
Hey Ron, lest you forget the kind of gutter-site you’re blogging for, don’t miss Kyle-Anne Shiver’s “George Soros: Nazi Obsessive.”
“. . . Paul Landau describes ‘al-Banna, in his position as chief guide of the Muslim Brotherhood . . .’”
The German word for “guide” is “Führer.”