Climategate is about a lot more than climate. It’s about science and its relationship to politics and profit, the academy, the state and, perhaps most importantly, information control. The manner through which we learn (or thought we did) important knowledge about key aspects of our existence, the way things are hidden, has been exposed in this one instance like the Wizard of Oz.
It’s obvious similar methods of control apply to many other information sources in our society. That is why Barbara Boxer is in shrill blaming-the-messenger mode, insisting that any Congressional investigation of Climategate would target the nefarious “hacker.” She realizes a great unraveling could come from this. So do to the global bureaucrats at the UN and the EU as they prepare for the Copenhagen conference. It is also why the mainstream media was so slow to report the East Anglia CRU emails and documents. They know that if you begin to report these things, you have to report on a lot of other things they have so scrupulously chosen to avoid.
That is why Climategate is so important. It is the Watergate of our times that has, if anything, more ramifications than the original, which largely affected just Richard Nixon and his immediate coterie. It is – to choose an in this case wildly ironic cliché – the tip of an iceberg. This iceberg does not definitively disprove the possibility of man’s influence on global warming (or cooling, for that matter). Anyone who says that is almost as irresponsible as those who say AGW is “settled science.” Well, not quite. But the scandal has changed the game in the crucial area of information flow and has forced the media and politicians to confront, at least for the moment, the issue of transparency.
Transparency, however, is not just about the issue of global warming. It is about myriad issues in our society, including healthcare, the economy with its attendant stimulus plans and education, to pick just a few that come immediately to mind. Indeed it affects practically everything. Transparency is, again ironically, like the weather – the thing that everybody talks about but nobody does a thing about. Our President promised it, others pay lip service to it, but no one does it.
Except a hacker. A hacker has finally exposed one corrupt system that can explode now in a thousand unpredictable directions. People will start looking under every rock – and they should. No wonder Ms. Boxer is squawking. All the members of our own nomenklatura should be alarmed. Something very dangerous could happen from this – true democracy.
UPDATE: The word “hacker” was in scare quotes for a reason. Although I have no accurate knowledge, I imagine the appearance of these documents on the Internet was the work of an internal whistle blower. Nothing else makes sense. Or perhaps we can call him/her a leaker, a word Barbara Boxer would be familiar with. As others have noted, leakers are good or bad, depending on whose ox is being “Gore-d.”
Well said, Roger.
AGW proponents make extraordinary claims. They say we should alter our whole economy based on unverified science (before CRUgate, even the biased IPCC only gave a 90% probability). They claim an effect that requires extraordinary feedback in the climate system. And now, thanks to a leaker (the hacker explanation doesn’t pass this old hacker’s smell test), we know that the process is corrupt.
The whole enterprise needs to obey the maxim: “Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.”
Does Gore have to give back his Nobel prize?
Does Gore have to refund his investors?
Does Gore have to go to jail for one-upping Bernie Maddof?
When will we get to read the UN emails on climate change?
About the same time we get to vote for the UN president I suspect.
When will we get to read the White House emails on climate change?
Where’s a good hacker when you need one.
It would take an Act of God equal to or greater than Noah’s Arc and the flooding of Earth to gain any common sense control over this Climategate / Global Warming mess.
Any normal person that says otherwise is either intoxicated, on dope or talking out of their rear end; because their head knows better.
So far, the only response from the MSM and the dominant political cadre is to kill the messengers. The international scientific-political establishment has attempted to ignore, quash, or otherwise trivialize this lapse in information control. Please stop dragging up Nixon. It’s getting more tiring than the ever popular charge of McCarthyism. If you absolutely must refer to some previous scandal, better Clinton and fellatio-gate. Just as this climate debacle has managed to indoctrinate our children, fellatio-gate taught them that sex is not really sex, and a blow job is OK.
Although I have posted this elsewhere, I will repeat it in brief here. Just a few days after the CU documents were released by the hacker (or whistle-blower), on 30 November 2009, the IPCC archives were still accessible in the internet Archives, aka, the Way back Machine http://web.archive.org). On 1 December 2009 they had been removed as attempts to open the site for 2004-2008 resulted in “Archive not found” messages. An email to the Way Back Machines has resulted in no response.
We must ask, if the CRU data was not manipulated, why did Phil Jones resign? Why did the IPCC remove or cause their archives to be removed, unless comparison of the data among the various reports would prove incriminating? Now we ,learn that the EPA will raise our taxes for a likely non-existent crisis, because they have been using the CRU/IPCC data http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/carlin-climategate-will-now-hit-the-epa-pjm-exclusive/comment-page-2/#comment-459557
What’s next? Are these criminal elements going to cliam that they can lie and cheat based on free speech?
Can we please stop saying the emails were hacked?!
There is no proof they were hacked.
Except what the CRU says, which is funny because we know they’ll say anything to further the scam that is AGW, but we’ll take them at their word that they were hacked?
Further, in other data dumps like the mediadefender email leak, the ENTIRE contents of an email inbox were dumped.
In the case or the CRU emails and data it was sanitized.
Where are the emails about salary reviews, or weekend plans, or love letters to wives or mistresses? Where is the mundane cruft like multiple “thanks” replies or funny pics, or chain emails we all get?
Hackers revel in showing the world exactly how much access they have to private data and love the embarrassment it causes. “All your base are ours”
Additionally as I have read through the HARRY_READ_ME it is all too apparent that even Harry didn’t know where everything was yet the “hackers” could find all the relevant data? I doubt it.
How about some whistle-blower ASSEMBLED the data and emails and released it, or inadvertently left it on a public CRU FTP?
Remember, too, that the basis of this study is not the multi-millennial study of actual temperature readings. It is based on “cohort” studies.
Since there is no way to “pop back” in time with a thermometer and check the temperature, climatologists use “cohorts” to determine weather. A cohort is something measurable that is assumed to have a direct relationship to the desired measure. Tree rings are often cited for climate and ecological studies.
Statistically and scientifically cohorts are and should be universally suspect. Cohort use lends itself to manipulation like that seen in the AGW fraud.
Climatology is not a science; it is a study. We cannot run a second experiment for 2008 weather and see if it comes out the same. While sounding ludicrous for such huge areas of inquiry, this is exactly what science demands: duplication of the entire experiment using your own apparatus, instruments, and gathering your own data for your own analyses. In theoretical physics the lab is required to support any computer simulations. A computer model is interesting but it is not nature.
Climatologist laugh and say this kind of burden is impossible for them. And it is. No laughing matter. By admission and definition, then, climatology excludes itself from clinical, critical scientific rigor.
Studying the cohort rather than the subject has great liabilities; not the least of which is almost total ignorance of the myriad variables influencing the cohort. Temperature alone is not reflected in tree rings. Two trees adjacent to each other may have vastly different ring results.
Consequently, when using cohorts it is far easier to defraud a scientific community with further manipulative shenanigans in both data gathering and modeling because the premise of cohort studies is antithetical to science.
We need only look to this very example to illustrate the point.
http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/site/comments/the-climategate-cover-up/
Posted by StraightTalkProwess
There definitely is a cover up going on. Try posting anything ClimateGate
related on the Canada.com news network. It will not be posted. If it does
because you at least talk within the context of the article, it may pass
the mod but it will eventually get deleted. In fact, I have seen articles
disappearing. This includes CTV and other major media that gets government
funding & funding from special interest groups.
This is fraud at the highest level. I am sure many of our politicians
bought into the program and are already enjoying Carbon Tax proceeds. They
were even hoping for more. It may well be too late for us to stop what has
been done so far in a timely manner.
Every major political party in Canada bought into the program. All of their
platforms include measures to tactical climate change. Either carbon tax,
cap & trade, carbon capture or a combination of them all.
This is going to take a long time to sort out but if they think it will
simply disappear, that is foolishness. Politicians should plan long & hard
but they shouldn’t ignore it. This issue will not go away.
If they do not take action to at least address the Canadian public soon
about ClimateGate, they are condoning fraud & white collar crime of the
highest magnitude.
Check out what Government has been doing behind your back:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VebOTc-7shU
The word hacker has a negative connotation within the mainstream media. Shouldn’t we be calling this person a whistle blower instead?
Climategate! Watch ‘em squirm! I love it! Since I’m not a “journalist”, I don’t have to be even-handed. AGW is a complete fraud.
I hope that they all end up in court.
If I had the money, I would sue all of them in civilian court.
Amen. Amen, amen and amen!
Finally,… someone gets it. (although “transparency” is a slightly different centerpoint than I would put on it, I don’t wish to quibble at this moment)
It is NOT enough that we “recognize” the moment. We must SEIZE the moment. Carpe diem.
In order to self-govern this land of ours, we cannot, we MUST not accept an information stream that is so corrupted, that it is worthless except as a poisoned well, existing solely as a fact mutation factory. Global warming may not exist, but the pollution of our information stream is real.
The stimulus, health care, jobs and unemployment, international relations, national defense, taxation, hot button issues such as abortion, gun control, EVERY voting booth pull of the lever…when you think of any issue over which you had the mildest interest (or greater)…depends upon our ability to rely on the information needed to make decisions about where we stand.
If those charged with the mandate of guardians of our information realm decide to arrogate to themselves the right, (and we allow them the ability) to distort that information to fit their political, cultural, personal whim…we can trust NOTHING upon which we need to make EVERY decision, large and small…in order to govern our very lives.
Martin Luther King once gave a speech in which he said that he understood there were going to be bad people, the world was filled with them, enough so that you can’t avoid them. It is understood and accepted that you avoid them, or at least deal with them the best you can. However, he said…what bothered him more was the appalling silence of the GOOD people. Those who had good hearts, but stood by silently and allowed bad things to take place.
Living life in the centerfield bleachers allows me to have an easy panoramic view of the whole field. And I am appalled at the good people to the left of center who accept the “benefits” of a corrupt information stream, their lame denials and weak alibis aside.
Because there are some here, I fear who might do the same if the shoe was on the other foot. And I would be screaming from the rooftops just as loudly.
Fight as fiercely as you like, be as partisan as you need be. But leave my information stream out of it. It has been stolen and I want it back. This is not a petty theft. It is not even just a Class A felony in my book. It is a capital offense.
There is NO crime that impacts negatively more issues, more people, more lives.
And I stand in accusation against ABC, NBC, MSNBC, CBS, Newsweek, AP, NYTimes, Washington Post, LA Times, CNN, BBC, …and all the rest of the legacy media.
I stand in accusation against all the government hacks, the fellow travelers in science, Hollywood and academia.
These fools are trifling with our lives. And if the shoe was on the other foot, if THEIR worldview was strangled out of existence, denied oxygen, trampled, beaten and bullied in every corner of our culture, they would be raging against the machine and marching, shaking their fists and crying.
Crocodile tears. I no longer would have an ounce of sympathy for them. Hypocrites, liars and cretins. They stole my information stream.
I would stand up and shout that it was wrong, just as I do today. But anyone who benefits from this vile crime, is a bagman for its distortion, should sit in the same appalling silence tomorrow as he wallows in today.
Right is right, fair is fair, wrong is wrong.
And THIS issue, is the greatest wrong of our lives.
Roger – While I do not quite agree with everything you said (in particular, effects humankind may have on the weather) you are quite right. Let me take this opportunity, though, to applaud PJM for the many stories it has run on this issue. You have done any enormous service for us all. The MSM, exemplified by BBC and the NYT, has done its best to bury it. Bravo PJM!!
Lies, damned lies, and statistics
The falsification of data and the conspiracy to commit same etc, constitutes serious criminal activity. Further, the granting of public funds for research warrants a federal investigation. I’m hoping the perpetrators, including possibly Professor Michael Mann, director of Pennsylvania State University’s Earth System Science Centre and a regular contributor to the popular climate science blog Real Climate, and their facilitators will be tracked down and prosecuted to the fullest extent the law allows. — Michael Santomauro
Global Warming Is Hot Air. Nice bumpersticker, huh? ;^)
Was slow to report? I haven’t been to the SF Chron site yet this morning, but they’ve run one story recounting the “hack” and nothing further. I fact they quit running stories about anything to do with climate or Cpoenhagen. If you don’t read the comments you would never know that AGW is a hustle. So if your local paper has a comments feature get busy.
The Global Warmers doth protest too much; they never accepted any constructive criticism. However, these e-mails prove Global Warming is a flat out hoax since the science & scientists has been shown to be corrupt & suspect. Global Warming was never about science in the first place, but a means to an end to tax oxygen & energy, take control of companies through carbon credits, & give our national sovereignty over the the corrupt tin-pot tyrants at the United Nations. Climategate unravels the Global Warming con from the con men. It will still happen, despite the media blackout. Alternative media will fill in the gaps the corrupt MSM refuses to accomplish.
Roger, I’ve heard (probably on Rush) that these hacked emails and docs were offered a month or more ago to the BBC if not other media organizations and were ignored, and that that is why they were “leaked” online. This would absolutely fit with the Drive-By mantra of “if we don’t report it it didn’t happen,” which those of us in the Universe of Reality can see is already crumbling.
Do we know definitively that these were offered to the BBC or a major media organization who refused to acknowledge them? This is akin to Newsweek turning down the Clinton-Monica scandal with which Drudge subsequently shocked the world and cemented his importance (and this is vastly more important to the world).
Ignoring this already is not working; Australia has seen the resignation of some key pro-ETS (Aussie version of Cap-and-Tax) politicians. It only requires a few key politicians crumbling in a few key countries to bring this entire house of cards down and perhaps many other precious shibboleths of the Universe of Deceit.
Well, I spoke too soon. I’ve been to the Chron website and there is a GW story today. It’s about Gov Biceps concern that we need to move faster to get ready for the consequences of AGW. HaHaHaHaHaHah
Roger, I suspect that the information divulged was the work neither of a hacker nor a whistleblower. The huge amount of information was nicely packaged in a zip archive called FOIA.zip. I suspect that one of the researchers put together information for some FOI request and put it either on a web server or an ftp server for others in the cabal to access for comments prior to distribution. Then that person forgot it was there, where anyone (e.g., Google) could access it without any hacking whatsoever! Remember that the best explanation for many human failures is simple incompetence, rather than conspiracy.
Roger,
Nicely put. Maybe a little too civil. Climategate: the first evidence that it’s not conspiracy theory, but a fr*cking conspiracy. Calling Thomas Jefferson, Mel (but, it’s all so clear) Gibson and Ayn Rand. It’s looking every bit like an international cabal of corrupt government regulators. Is there a book there Roger? Oh sorry, you do fiction. OTOH, you might be thinking of finally getting that movie of “Atlas Shrugged” produced and at least on the worldwideweb. $2/view.
When can we get really angry at the swindle and all the swindlers? I’d like to report an armed-robbery in progress. Well, for as long as I can remember. Shouldn’t Congress be “interviewing” AlGore under oath? Followed by the EPA, NISC, NOA, BLM, Forest Service et al, down to each local firestation, about every action they have taken to insure they’re compliant and GREEN. Figure in the manhours expended too.
Just a rough estimate of past expenditures will suffice to quantify the size of the heist so far, and maybe rouse the ire of the citizens of the world. The pols claim that blatent seizure of peoples’ wealth isn’t a crime, cause it’s legal? And they don’t have to even read the particulars?
Okay, re-instate waterboarding. Why do they fear it so? It works perfectly and chances are they’ll still be alive to face the consequences. And, it’s rarely fatal. Gitmo would be the perfect change-of-venue.
Speaking of deliberate opaqueness add another: the characterizaton of social “faux pas” for the WH gatecrashing episode. Having (instructing) the Secret Service to fall on its sword for this breach in security is criminal. If this actually was a legitimate screw up, an oops on their part, heads should surely be rolling. If either of the Salahis was in fact a terrorist-in-waiting (and how can you know?), whether successful or disarmed, then a huge shakeup would be forthcoming, no?
Is this like no harm – no foul? Nah, can’t be. Achmed, did you see what one of our brothers accomplished? Got right next to that apostate BHO.
My first thought: A semi-believable excuse is needed to justify one of those “comprehensive overhauls” for Homeland Security and the Secret Service. TWO people said not to have invites (one a ME male) get to shake hands with the Once, by crashing a WH party. No matter why, US has a serious problem with Presidential security. Watch carefully the deliberations of the electeds on this matter. If it was really a breach (ie, SS failure), all the WDC pols would be DEMANDING new protections, protocols, more and NEW personnel be assigned to their details.
I dated a gal who worked for Nancy Reagan, picked her up there scores of times. And every time I got a “Thanks for understanding Mr. G, it’s just standard procedure.” They knew me on sight, had my dossier: DD214, security clearances, backgrounder, (probably some outstanding parking tickets), picture, fingerprints, security clearances(s) and my contributor status at hand, and I’m not swarthy. Always polite, but chilly obstruction.
Nobody gets in without a serious vouce. Never. Given these agents are volunteering to take a bullet for the President, it could have been a message from that Secret Service detail that they wouldn’t always protect the President when it’s parytime. At any rate, this then elicits their profuse apology and “promise to not let it happen again” and that’s deemed sufficient for now. Of course, another option could be that “command influence” is at work. Those two exhaust my possible explanations. Either is bad.
Ergo, worst incident in Secret Service history, or somebody high-up, inside, has the authority to overrule the protcol and overide all the procedure involved in Presidential security, to admit a couple not on the list pre-scrutinized by many sets of eyes, all seeking every reason to eliminate a guest.
Dammit! Sen Lieberman just foolishly said on FNS that “normally the screening process works, but sometimes things fall through the cracks” !!! Excuse me Joe. Not.
The Army brass is promising similar; i.e., all Forts Wherever will not suffer suicidals in the future. How can they make such promises in good faith?
Actually, if someone did break into their computers, they should probably be called a cracker; many programmers see themselves as hackers (getting into the code) and not in a nefarious way.
But, no one has proved or shown evidence that this was a hack or a crack; At WattsUpWithThat.com, someone on staff suggested it might be that someone at CRU may have accidentally place the zip file on a public folder (this was done previously) and that someone else picked it up and then distributed it. This could also have been a whistleblower (Liberals love them as long as they are not against their own.) So the assertion of a hack is a good PR stunt for then they can channel the public’s anger to this criminal.
However, weren’t these emails and data supposed to be released in someway anyway due to FOIA? And didn’t we see the criminal intent by the scientific money-raking-in-cabal to delete or hide them? That’s what is far more disturbing. Scientists committed to the very antithesis of science: secrecy. Case closed.
By the way, a message to John Stossel, yes it is a smoking gun for it shows that even the most core evangelists have their doubts, despite their high statistical confidence levels. Confident people don’t play these types of games.
Agree with you on Climategate, slight disagreement on Watergate.
I know this is tangential, but there are tens of millions of Vietnamese and Cambodians who would disagree with you that Watergate just affected Nixon and his immediate circle, and millions who can’t disagree with you only because they were murdered by the Khmer Rouge and North Vietnamese communists.
The concern about “hacking” must seem contrived to anyone who has ever had access to email at work — which must include a large proportion of the population by now. Management routinely warns every worker that there’s no expectation of privacy for workplace emails, and that nothing should be entrusted to email that would be embarrassing if broadcast on the internet. Pardon me if I can’t feign outrage about the Climategate leak.
Considering the “hack” was done to the system of a British research institute, I’d be real curious to know the justification for a congressional inquiry into the hacker. Congress has no standing.
Where was Ms. Boxer’s outrage when Sarah Palin’s personal e-mail was publicly hacked? If only she had raised a stink then, perhaps none of this would have happened. Oh the irony.
On the other hand, it took, what a week for the name of Sarah Palin’s nemesis to hit publication? How long has the CRU data been out and no name yet? The very fact that there is no idea other than “russian hacker” who did this leads me to believe that it wasn’t a hack at all.
Information control has worked
so well, for so long, that TPTB
cannot overcome their mental
inertia; Like Wile E. Coyote,
they have run right past the
edge of the cliff, and are
terrified to look down.
I read the Washington Times article and saw that Mark Hess (Nasa) hadn’t heard about the CRU thingy. Like the guys on the ESPN football say “C’mon Man!”. I also report that none other than “The Incredible Michael Mann” has stated “They’ve taken scientists’ words and phrases and quoted them out of context, completely misrepresenting what they were saying,” Mr. Mann told AccuWeather.com in an interview, calling it a “manufactured controversy.” (Pot meet Kettle)(again, “C’mon Man”)
The term for Mr. Hess could be prevaricator and as for Mr. Mann any number of sobriquets for him would be appropriate; (ie. ‘fraud’,'cheat’, ‘charlatan’ just to name a few.)
Thanks for the opportunity,
Bigfingo
#24 Peg C: Roger, I’ve heard (probably on Rush) that these hacked emails and docs were offered a month or more ago to the BBC if not other media organizations and were ignored, and that that is why they were “leaked” online.
Yes, we actually know that the emails, or part of them at least, were offered to the BBC’s Paul Hudson. — Charlie
“People will start looking under every rock – and they should.”
But they shouldn’t have to. The other major research centers can vanish this scandal overnight. Just step up and make their datasets, analyses, and analytical tools available for all to examine, especially the climate scientists with differing views.
The transparency issue is especially cogent because the Obama-ites have made a big deal indeed of Open Government
(see “Opening a Can of Worms: Government and Climate Change Data” – http://american.com/archive/2009/december-2009/opening-a-can-of-worms-government-and-climate-change-data.)
It is also entertaining to note that OSTP, run by John Holdren, is supposed to have a blog on scientific integrity; I have not been able to find it except as an icon on the OSTP Innovations Gallery.
What’s Boxer’s position on the people who illegally recorded Newt Gingrich’s cell calls?
So, Babs Boxer (heir to Joe Biden’s mantle as the Senate’s Dumbest Member) wants to ignore and suppress the fruits of the “criminal hackers.”
Translation: “That criminal little dog violated the Emerald City ordinance against pulling back curtains!”
James Hansen, a principal proponent of the existence of man made global warming, now claims that it would be better were the Copenhagen climate conference to fail. He does not think that the “science” of global warming is wrong:
Hansen admitted the controversy could shake public’s trust, and called for an investigation. “All that stuff they are arguing about the data doesn’t really change the analysis at all, but it does leave a very bad impression,” he said.
However, he opposes the “cap and trade” scam, noting:
“This is analogous to the indulgences that the Catholic church sold in the middle ages. The bishops collected lots of money and the sinners got redemption. Both parties liked that arrangement despite its absurdity. That is exactly what’s happening,” he said. “We’ve got the developed countries who want to continue more or less business as usual and then these developing countries who want money and that is what they can get through offsets [sold through the carbon markets].”
Richard Lindzen, professor of meteorology at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, has written a very good piece for the layperson’s understanding of climate studies & the claims implicit in AGW.
The Climate Science Isn’t Settled
So far, the only response from the MSM and the dominant political cadre is to kill the messengers.
I watched the 1/2 hour of ABC & NBC national “news” (Charlie Gibson & Brian Williams) immediately prior to Obama’s speech Tuesday night, just to see if there would be anything on Climategate.
Nary a single, solitary mention of the story on either network, even given that just that day Phil Jones “stepping down” at East Anglia had been announced.
Their silence on this story is beyond extraordinary.
Apparently a selected number of tree rings were chosen to determine temperature. The ones that didn’t validate their wanted results were rejected.Aren’t there other factors besides temperature which affect tree growth like rainfall or lack of, fungus, bacteria, insects and soil conditions? Yet determing temperature by examining tree rings is called science. I was born at night but not last night.
This thread is notable for the absence of any, or the usual, left wing loons. Shame, realization of stupidity & gullibility?
Barbara Boxer has already decided on criminality, though she didn’t see any in the NSA “spying” disclosure courtesy of the NY Times. Twisted priorities I’d say.
As always, national defense and security less important then domestic power and control by the Democratic Party, now and always the Party of Treason.
What pigs !
So, Babs Boxer (heir to Joe Biden’s mantle as the Senate’s Dumbest Member) wants to ignore and suppress the fruits of the “criminal hackers.”
Reminded me (instantly) of Jerry Brown (& others on the national level) wanting to prosecute the individuals who exposed ACORN.
From their perspective, apparently, the criminal is the one who exposes the crime. Of course, there is a complete double standard when one of their own is caught with his hand in the cookie jar.
I’m all for throwing Babs, Maxine, Nancy, Harry & the entire crowd into jail in the name of of their relentless assault on human intelligence.
Any comment on Holdren’s claim that 4 independent studies were done that uphold Mann’s results if not his methods? Most notably the NAS study (I think it came out of Texas A&M).
I’m curious if that zero’d out the Medieval Warming Period as well.
And how they massaged the ‘raw’ data.
Roger,
The documents were originally sent to media a month before their public web release, and media did nothing. SILENCE.
The subsequent appearance of the documents on public servers makes the conclusion of ‘whistle blower’ a no brainer. Having failed to inspire media to investigate, the guy had to publicly release the material or give up.
whistleblowers being motivated by the desire to ‘do right’, he was not likely to give up.
THank God.
Article on NASA study but nothing referring to National Academy of Science study (request for information)
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/dec/03/researcher-says-nasa-hiding-climate-data/
cfbleachers@17
…And if the shoe was on the other foot, if THEIR worldview was strangled out of existence, denied oxygen, trampled, beaten and bullied in every corner of our culture…
But that shoe is now squarely on our foot and we’re compelled to do exactly those things. Or, we’re suicidal.
‘”We may well have a hearing on this, we may not. We may have a briefing for senators, we may not,” Boxer said. “Part of our looking at this will be looking at a criminal activity which could have well been coordinated.’
Why would we have hearings on an event that took place in the UK, and appears to be entirely outside the jurisdiction of any American government?
What are you going to hold hearings on next? Alleged jaywalking in India?
What an ass dear little Babs is.
Any comment on Holdren’s claim that 4 independent studies were done…
Only that he is something of a wacko and unrepentant eugenicist
I would tend not to trust any of his claims, even though, seeing him testifying yesterday, he has cleaned up well since the 70′s.
John Holdren, Obama’s Science Czar
(over and out)
Roger – I hate to break it to everyone here but we have entered a realm in which none of this matters. “Climatgate” should be the “Story fo the Decade” but notice how, er, restrained the attitude of both Big Media (except Fox) and the trans-national governmental elites has been to it. When ecofanatics say “The science is settled” they really mean “The politics are settled”(to quote Mark Steyn.) The over-arching goal of the enviromental movement, both politicans and scientists, is (and has always been)some form of world governance where everyone will do what they’re told “for the good of the planet.” As has often been pointed out we are not dealing with science but a “triumphalist faith” where skeptics and nonbelievers must be led, driven or tricked toward salvation.
Bear asked:
Any comment on Holdren’s claim that 4 independent studies were done that uphold Mann’s results if not his methods?
Steve McIntyre of ClimateAudit.org has demonstrated that all these allegedly independent studies replicating Mann’s results rely on the same sets of flawed tree ring data.
Go to ClimateAudit.org and do a search on “independent studies”.(Search box is in upper right hand corner on the main page. Be sure to click to search CA and not the Web.) Read some of the articles that turn up under that search and decide for yourself how “independent” the studies really are.
Note: ClimateAudit.org is a bit hard to get to right now due to high traffic. But keep trying. You’ll be glad you did.
Dan @ #40.
I saw this about Hansen yesterday. Can you say CYA?
Thanks Michael…that’s what I thought but wanted to be reassured.
Tanstaafl: I know about Holdren, and quite frankly, I think he’s evil.
@ #28
Haaaaay Baaaabbitt!!
/end Costello
Phat, I think you meant proxy instead of cohort. Tree rings are proxies for temperature measurements. A cohort of measurements may be used as proxies, but the word cohort does not mean that. A proxy is a substitute for something else. A cohort can be a group of related measurements I first learned the term when studying human beings grouped by age. Each age group was called a cohort.
I admit to getting somewhat obsessed by this topic for the last several days, and ave serious concerns, even outrage art what Jones and Co did, but I have also learned a tremondous amount about the AGY issue. I still remain a sceptic, but now have a lot more serious tings to tink about.
I must also report that after having spent a lot of time reading the emails themselves and reading hundreds of posts on other sites, the discussion here at PJM is close to the level of burping and farting.
There are very serious issues to address here,
and instead we get a lot of idiotic triumphalism. Just for kicks, check out the link below, which I got off the feed about the BBC reporter who had been offered the emails.
Monbiat is a believer in AGY, called for Jones’ resignation before it happened, but also makes a damned important point about the “cooling” since 1998.
Is it too much to ask for a little rational discusssion here?
http://therealnews.com/t/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=4537&updaterx=2009-12-01+09%3A48%3A58
In re: Dwight @ 60
As one who sometimes “burps and farts” on this site I agree that discussion of this (and other) important issues should always be restrained and rational. However it is asking a lot of human nature not to resist a little schadenfreude concerning the CRU e-mail releases. For quite a while now we have been told by politicians and climatologists that “the science is settled.” Their tone has always been that of a prissy schoolmaster laying down the law to a rather dim child. Now it appears that the Emperor has, if not no clothes, far fewer garments than originally advertised. None of this would matter except for the fact that the “science” is the basis for planning the most monumental political and economic change in world history; a change that will have a massive impact on nearly everything we associate with western liberty. These revelations have also publicly underlined the fact that AGW is an explicitly political(even thocratic) project rather than a “wholly scientific enterprise.” In effect the global warming establishment is asking us all to march off a cliff and take their word for it that there is really a net at the bottom. One can’t help but be supicious when those same people do everything possible to prevent you from taking an advance peek over the edge just to make sure.
Climategate is a story about computer hacking in much the same way Watergate was a story about parking garages.
How about Nuremberg type trials for the perpetrators of this massive fraud; Gore, Mann, Jones, Hanson, etc, with Nuremberg type punishments for anyone convicted? How many people would would die around the world if drastic cuts in CO2 emissions are enforced? I’m guessing a lot more than the members of the National Socialist German Workers Party were responsible for.
Climate change science as we now know was just a thinly disguised version of the ancient science of telling the guy with the money what he wants to hear.
When James Lovelock first sounded the alarm in the 1970s he was ridiculed by his peers. It was only when there was obviously money, fame and lavish hospitality to be had from this niche of climatology the mainstream got interested.
Dream on. They can force us to share our wealth, to ration our health care, we cannot “force the media and politicians to confront the crucial issue of transparency.” There are too many of us still believe they are doing things for our own good, and return them to their lairs of corruptions.
It is amazing how the proponents of man made global warming cling to this belief system with such single minded ferocity.
#16. Jack:
Each of us can sue Al Gore and his gang of corrupt scientists and Obama Administration Officials in Small Claims Court in our local jurisdictions. Check with your local Court Rules for the maximum amount in controversy. It is usually under $10,000.00.
In small claims, neither the plaintiff nor the defendant (s) can be represented by an attorney. This keeps it incredibly cheap and real. Gore’s law partners cannot come in to win by making the litigation cost prohibitive.
Just think of $10,000 x 1 million individual plaintiffs in 1 million separate small claims actions.
It will give we the people some redress and will also finally get media attention on this crooked profiteer.
The pleadings are also fill in the blanks, printed forms.
The time has come …..
cfbleachers nailed it for me. He coalesced Simon’s larger or is it secondary point about the entire information dirt road.
The larger lesson, beyond MMGW, is that information coming from our government should be taken with enough skepticism so as to render it to insignificance. This is a libertarian’s wet dream.
I don’t know. Maybe we’re being too hard on the MSM for not covering Climategate. We can’t be sure. Perhaps as a result of their unquenchable sense of fair play the MSM is leaving the story of the century to the new media. They’ve decided now is the time for the change. Out with the old and in with the new and so forth. They’ve all collectively determined, one at a time, to leave the most important news story since Watergate to Pajamas Media and other internet news organizations.
Suppose the MSM is just being nice for a change? Wouldn’t we all be terribly, terribly embarrassed to discover that? Couldn’t it be that the MSM are really the good guys here and our disparagement of them completely unwarranted? I hope we can all be big enough to admit how badly we may have misjudged them.
We need to steal from Saul Alynsky, and our ‘hope and change’ is to take our county back.
I have a theory about the investigation into the CRU “hacker.” My theory is that they are not actually looking for the “hacker” because they are afraid they might just find he is actually a whistleblower, which would eliminate their last line of defense against all of us “non-believers.”
Michael, CFBleach, Kirtz, 71, 72 and pretty much 1 on gives me invaluable informational insights, not denuded or deluded or watered down or truth filtered. Of course, Mr. Simon gets my kudos most every time he goes up to bat. Which I hope goes without saying.
Further, what you’ve given me, what all of you magnificent missive-makers fighting in the trenches of this war on America are helping to expose for all of us, shrouded in the fog of deceit and outright lies and backed by moneyed madmen, are truths, ones that can be hidden for only so long when there is so much honor and courage to shine on it.
To me, you people are catchers of the Hail Mary passes on a field of political con artist defenders. I enjoy pouring Gatorade on you.
And to the hacker or whistleblower or whoever outed the deceit merchants, I sense you are a spy in the midst of evil; someone who is much more than that. Like Clair highpockets Phillips was more than a woman, for she was a hero who rightly and proudly was presented the medal of freedom.
What is being made possible by people like the ones I compliment this evening?
Like pieces of grass growing between the cracks of a sidewalk refusing to be kept down, I feel a joyful warmth that everything good and right, genuine and free is now within reach. 180 degrees opposite, I feel that the lies and distortions, the Olbermanns, the Rahm’s, the Letterman’s, the Joy behars, the Bill Mahers; America’s underbelly of evil are in for some weathering times. Because they’re trying to kill my country, I, personally am taking no prisoners.
Like those digging through the deaths at Malmedy soon after the December 17, 1944 affront to humanity where 100 of your fathers and grandfathers were murdered, the other side of me, the one doling out no compliments, stays incensed, unforgiving, craving a blood letting, compassion empty revenge of the most vicious kind. It is a similar feeling I have for the information whores of Clamategate. Sourcing a stream that is so corrupted, that it is worthless except as a poisoned well.
Overseers of this venal fact mutation factory must be savaged. “Global warming may not exist, but the pollution of our information stream is real.” The machinations and machinationers that cause it must be gutted.
“Right is right, fair is fair, wrong is wrong.
And THIS issue, is the greatest wrong of our lives.”
(CF Bleachers above)
Kirtz1 #70
You must be joking
75. howiem
Yep, I was tongue firmly in cheek. Really though, the MSM is comprised of men and women not devils from the ninth level of hell. They’re just not very honest men and women.
This iceberg does not definitively disprove the possibility of man’s influence on global warming
—————-
Oh really? Roger, I’ve seen those code snippets published with the leaked documents. I was a software developer for about 30 years and I can tell you that at least SOME of the data was falsified. When you have to stoop to that level, that tells me nothing you have is worth the powder to blow it to hell.
Of course it is not about the weather, Global Warming science is the science of public BS. The problem is that we have been incorrectly classifying it as a climate science instead of a political science.
I must add that it also may be classified as a science of economics.
I must add that it could also be classified as a science of economics.
For the record, I would like to dittogate “chambers” at #53 & 61, including but not limited to…
“The over-arching goal of the enviromental movement, both politicans and scientists, is (and has always been)some form of world governance where everyone will do what they’re told “for the good of the planet”…These revelations have also publicly underlined the fact that AGW is an explicitly political(even theocratic) project rather than a “wholly scientific enterprise.”
The true agenda is scarier and more abhorrent than the pretentious lies, machinations and massaging of data that have become evident over recent weeks.
(I am technically an “environmentalist” but have nothing to do with the environmental movement having watched its politicization over the years. Even the original founder of Greenpeace shares some of my objections as to what the movement has become)
Just for the sake of arguement let’s suppose for a moment that;
THERE ISN’T ANY DATA. AND NEVER WAS. THEY MADE THE WHOLE THING UP.
Ok, I got the idea from somebody who commented on the SF Chron website. Chron actually ran a story about the CRU investigation.
I guess you can’t subvert the investigation from the outside.
You know what I think? I think that over the course of my lifetime, the “scientific consensus” has found it necessary to reverse itself on any number of occasions. I think of the many alarming and dire predictions that didn’t pan out and of the thousand dirty little secrets the “scientific community” holds close to its vest.
I think about the times too numerous to count that government has had to say “oops, we didn’t expect that to happen; it certainly was not our intention.” About the corrupting nature of power and how, once obtained, it becomes like a drug habit requiring continuous fixes at ever-increasing doses.
I think about the profit motive and how truly motivating it is and of the large numbers of individuals, organizations and government entities poised to cash in big time on AWG.
I think about MSM who have tossed out the five “W’s” in favor of furthering an agenda and how a majority of journalism students say their main objective is to “change the world, make it a better place.”
I think about an environmental movement that has been taken over in large part by orphans of the collapse of communism in need of a new vehicle to impose their ideological bent on the rest of us.
I think about all that and then consider everything we’ve learned in the past ten days or so and conclude that we’d have to be crazy to let this cabal of Big Science, Big Government, Big Business, Big Media and Big Environment reconstruct a compound sentence much less the socio-economic apparatus of the entire planet. So, thank you to the hacker or whistle blower or whatever who made these records public; we are indebted you. Big time.
And to my fellow Californians: if we can’t rid ourselves of the atrocious Ms. Boxer, aka Ma’am, this time out, we’ll never be able to do it. We have our assignment.
Good article, Roger. I’m hoping this business has the result of making people stand back and take another hard look at the GW issue itself, as well as how the doings and findings of scientists are presented to us – the voting, tax-paying citizens. The problem is not necessarily that AGW is not real; it’s the way Gore, the UN, and now the US Government are apparently trying to stampede us into signing off on massive, expensive, highly restrictive measures to combat the problem. Maybe they feel they’re rescuing us from a genuine catastrophe. Or maybe, as some commenters suggest, they’re just indulging in a cynical power grab. Either way, our lives, freedom and fortunes are on the line. That gives us the right to investigate, criticize, and disapprove of their methods, their conclusions, and their remedies. I wish more people could see “denialism” as a healthy exercise of our rights rather than mere obstinance in the face of “proven science.” I mean, I’m used to leftists telling everyone that “dissent is the highest form of patriotism.” Why are they behaving like sheep just because the Government’s latest commands are supposedly backed up by the “scientific community?”
Barbara Boxer is a moron
Congressional investigation into something that happened at a university over in England ?????
Here’s a great video on Climategate by Rex Murphy, of the Canada’s CBC. Normally, the CBC is ultra left, but this video NAILS the scandal. Pass it around:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgIEQqLokL8&feature=player_embedded
Whether a hacker, leaker, or whistleblower, the person or group deserves out gratitude for he or she or they did the world a great service. If someone broke into my home with the intention to steal but instead extinguished a fire which would otherwise have incinerated me and my family, I should thank him as wholeheartedly as if he were a legitimate fireman. Of course, this was no accidental leak from some fortuitous hack; the hacker or leaker already knew that the e-mails and other data would expose to the world how farcically unscientific the basis of the so-called scientific consensus was and, unfortunately (for as long as too many in the climate-science community try to hide their complicity in fraud or their failure to discern pseudo-scientific malfeasance), still is.
#54-3 months ago Joe Bastardi of AccuWeather ran a dissertation on Fox about GLOBAL COOLING ,showing the earth is actually cooling. By the way-this leaker downloaded this on a RUSSIAN server, indicating he likely couldnt do this on a English server. My best guess- the leaker tried first to leak this to the BBC. When they wouldnt run the story, he tried to leak it thru the net locally unsucessfully, sort of like an AOL chat room monitor or a HuffPO refusing to post comments they dont want on. The leaker then searched until he found a way to download it. I say bravo to the leaker. The leaker has ALREADY achieved some sucess-the AUSTRALIAN PARLIAMENT DEFEATED CRAP AND TAX.It would not have happened without this leaker.
#54 Bigfingo-One little bit of info on Michael the Fraud Mann. The inventor of the infamous “hockey stick” graph is now throwing his fellow conspirator Phil Jones under the proverbial double decker. If Climategate is a phony as “dr”(a disgrace for one such as him to have that title) Mann insists, then why isnt he standing by his colleague? Maybe because Scotland Yard is launching an investigation into this?
Hey Roger, I got this great idea! We should start a fund that will offer big rewards to any hacker/whistleblower who reveals hidden documents from any research organization that is hiding documents on climate research. Many of these organizations (such as NASA) are publically funded and are subject to freedom-of-information laws so the public should have this information anyway. Even if it doesn’t work, we could have lots of fun watching these junk scientists freak out while they eye each of their collegues with suspicion. Be sure to set it up as an “Education Fund” so it can have non-profit tax exemption status. Once you set up the fund, you will have no problem setting up interviews with these scientists. Your first questions can be “Hey doc, feel like making some easy money???”
Climategate is about a giang government-government funded science fraud aimed at usurping power and money from the governed.It has absolutely nothing to do with climate.
$10 Billion Dollars & More per Year For a Fraud?
Canadians are interested in results of what is going on about Climategate in Canada! As it has to do with our lives,lifestyle whether or not we are going to be living in a Democracy or under a Dictatorship?
Jim prentice has stated & PM Harper advocates this as well otherwise Prentice wouldn’t be uttering it”Canada will be paying it’s fair share of Carbon Emmissions! To the tune of $10 Billion per year!” Really, we are already $70 Billion in debt thanks to Michael Ignatieff & the Liberals who up’ed the anti to the Canadian debt load on stimulus!
This begs the question where Jim Prentice plans to dig the $10 Billion per year out of? Did somebody say more Tax?
What is so disheartening about that is the fact that now it’s been found that the whole Climate Emission scam has been proven to be Fraudulent as credible Scientests around the world who were previously locked out of putting their work and findings forth by Jones of East Anglia University and the CRU,were pushed out of the picture with thier observations and experiment results on Climate Change found that not only is the earth not heating up in reality it has been cooling since the 1960’s!
How much more fraudulent can this Scientific Data be? The United Nations and the Globalists are using this false Data at Copenhagen, to transfer our wealth to third world countries? Yet Environment Minister Jim Prentice and Prime Minister Stephen Harper feel so generous with Canadian Tax payer dollars that they are willing to toss in $10 Billion per year on the “hot air” that Ban Kai Moon and Pompus PM Gordon Brown and the rest of the Criminal Rogues that are involved in this bogus Carbon Emission Treaty! As the Bible says,”A Fool and his money are soon parted”! To request that PM Harper doesn’t sign the Copenhagen Treaty, causing Canadians to lose their Sovereignty and Freedom email the PM at: pm@pm.gc.ca,Protest Copenhagen Treaty http://www.gopetition.com/online/32485.html
There are four reasons the UN and IMF, Global Elitist Members Re: Ban Kai Moon ( Who has openly expressed his stong desire for Global Governance ), PM Gordon Brown, Bilderberg Member Henry Kissinger, Senior Bilderberg Member David Rockefeller as well as an unprecedented number of Dictators that run various countries who are members of the United Nations this Copenhagen Treaty that was designed to acquire four goals, the least of them being climate improvment or protection as Lord Moncton has stated!
(1.) To de-industrialize Sovereign Countries ( No Jobs keep you dependant on State ) ( 2.) Take your money and assets – Hence, Fraudulent Carbon Emmissions and Carbon Gases for Carbon Credits and Carbon Taxes! (3.) Take away your property (4.) Take away your Sovereignty and Freedom!
Check out what Government is doing behind your back at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VebOTc-7shU