Swiss voters fight back against Islamization
In a supposedly surprising development, the Swiss just voted to ban minarets on mosques in their country:
Over 57% of Swiss voters chose to approve a blanket ban on the construction of Muslim minarets, according to official results posted by Swiss news agency ATS.
Just days before the election only 37% of people polled by state-owned television station DRS said they would support the ban.
Swiss feminists were apparently in the lead in the “Stop the Minarets” campaign. No surprise there really. Salman Rushdie is not the only one to read Islamic texts (and behavior) as an assault on women. Anyone with eyes open, certainly an intelligent female, would. If only our own feminists could get off their reactionary multi-culturalist behinds in this regard.
But what may be more interesting is what this vote may reveal about what is truly inside the heart of the average European after decades of Islamization. The elites, of course, are alarmed. From the Sky report:
The Swiss government had urged people to vote against the ban, arguing it will cause “incomprehension overseas and harm Switzerland’s image”.
Swiss President Hans-Rudolf Merz made a video broadcast to the nation, which said: “Muslims should be able to practise their religion and have access to minarets in Switzerland too. But the call of the muezzin will not sound here.”
The right-wing proposal has stirred fears of violent reactions in Muslim countries and an economically disastrous boycott by wealthy Muslims who bank, shop and spend holidays in Switzerland.
Of course this is called a “right-wing proposal.” That must be news to those feminists. And, of course, there is no mention that throughout much of the Islamic world – forget minarets or spires – churches and synagogues are banned altogether (not to mention apostates have their throats slit).
On a personal note I remember Hans-Rudolf Merz well from my recent trip to Geneva for the Durban II Conference where I watched as the Swiss President welcomed the Holocaust-denying-nuclear-bomb-buliding-mega-misogynistic-homosexual-denying-and-now-demonstrator-murdering-religious-psychopath President of Iran Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. Call it ultra-bourgoies multi-culturalism or simply protecting banking interests, the whole thing was despicable. It’s great to see the Swiss people turn their backs on all that.
And speaking of multi-culturalism, before the MC Bourgeoisie deluges us with their fuddy-duddy complaints that Judaism and Christianity have also had their bouts of misogyny and homophobia, let me answer with a “yeah, well, we all know that.” But those two religions long ago began to reform themselves in those areas in many of their branches and we all know that too. Don’t believe me (or still want to lie about it for multi-culti purposes), next time you want to have a gay pride parade, want to hold it in Tel Aviv or Cairo? Or how about Riyadh?
– as with bell towers and steeples, they are earthquake hazards anyway…
at last – the people of Europe start to express their views about multiculturism and the threat from Islam – well done to the Swiss
This is nice but I wouldn’t get carried away. This little yelp from a cowed, self-hating population may or may not mean something. When they start ripping of burqas and telling Muslims to sit down and shut up, then I’ll lift a glass of cherry liqueur in their honor. Till then I’m expecting law suits and Eurotrash lawyers filing claims on behalf of “the religion of peace.”
The muslims have been trying to overrun Europe for more than a thousand years. This time, instead of a military conquest, they tried a uterine conquest: over-breeding themselves into the majority. The Europeans are not going to meekly stand aside, or wait until it’s too late to do anything.
There has always been one solution: exclude the muslims from Europe by any means necessary – if the muslims have their way, Europe will be a barren wasteland populated by inbred homicidal quasi-human lunatics – just like the muslim ‘homelands’ are today.
If minarets and the rest of Islam were only a “religion” as westerners understand it, we would not be having this discussion. However, Islam is a religious and political system that cannot be separated. Except in one or two rare exceptions that prove the rule–such as in Turkey, where nationalism, western ideas and misrule by Muslim rulers burned away the hundreds of years of cultural and religious undergrowth of a weakened and corrupted Caliphate–Muslim cultures use freedom to take it away from everyone else.
As one writer has already observed, when the percentage of Muslims is more than 3 or 4 percent in a society, there are fabricated complaints of discrimination against Muslims. When the percentage crosses out of single digits, there is agitation for acceptance of wedge measures such as the burqa. When the percentage is in the 20s and 30s, there is enforcement of sharia elements within the entire Muslim populace, and the creation of sharia pockets. When the percentage crosses the 40s and the 50s, everyone else loses their rights. All along the way, Taqqiya rules, where a Muslim is authorized to lie for the advance of Islam.
Minarets are an unmistakable political statement, which the Swiss have answered with a political measure. If one is legitimate, then so is the other. Citizens of a democracy are not required to cede ground to a philosophy that, through precept and countless examples, intends to end democracy. Let the Swiss stand up to the cowardly, self-destroying European court of human rights.
Practicing a religion is one thing…practicing killing sprees as Muslims do..is entirely another.
These people should be banned, period. send them all off to their own planet…
I believe they are a blight on the world and we will all pay a dear price if we keep quiet and “let them be’>..they are killers and have no respect for human life, not even their own.
Allowing Muslims to continue as they have been is like letting a termite into your wooden house. It’s such a helpless looking little bug.
The European leaders and media, every one of whom is a far-left liberal, are simply beside themselves that the Swiss are refusing to commit cultural and national suicide.
How dare the Swiss object to being rapidly over-run with foreigners who despise the 1500 year old Swiss culture, and would eliminate it in an instant if their numbers allowed?
European leaders and media know that only Muslim immigrants have rights, anywhere in the world. Long time native citizens have no rights what-so-ever in their own countries. If you do not believe this, just ask any European leader or journalist.
Don’t want to spoil such a beautiful day, BUT
Islamists and the Left in Switzerland are not going to surrender so easily. Their next move is to screw the democracy through European Court of Justice (Europäischer Gerichtshof).
If they succeed… Let’s hope they won’t.
This does nothing except push liberal muslims to the middle and moderate muslims to the extreme. Good job Switzerland in recruiting for radical islam.
It’s of the utmost importance that Judaism and Christianity “reform themselves” so that they can live up to the standards of our secular elite, donchyaknow.
Jeezus Aitch Keerist!
It’s about time somebody fought back……
I’m sure the Swiss are now worried about what the Muslim backlash will be after this vote. If they think the Muslims in their country, let alone in the rest of Europe, are going to roll over and play dead after this, you’re wrong. Although the Muslims in Switzerland are probably not as militant as the ones in France, Germany, or Spain, something will probably happen. It is a sad state of affairs when a country has to fear what a minority group will do after an election has taken place. Just look at what happened in Denmark after those cartoons were printed. It will be interesting to see how the Swiss stand up for themselves and whether or not they will be intimidated by these religious thugs.
Forgotten to post the link. It’s the official site of the “Initiative”, aka. those who put the question for the referendum:
http://www.minarette.ch/
On their front page they express how happy they are and how this must result into the change of the Swiss law to prevent any other undemocratical ELEMENTS OF SHARIAH to be practice in Switzerland. They also are disgusted with the idea to declare the referendum results INVALID in the European Court of Justice.
(“Im Abstimmungskampf laut gewordene professorale Ideen, die Umsetzung via Klage beim Europäischen Gerichtshof zu unterlaufen, sind inakzeptabel, brechen Verfassungsrecht”)
/The site has French and Italian versions, if it’ll help./
To AC,
May be they should’ve and here’s why:
The following is from Free Inquiry magazine,
A Chat With Arthur C. Clarke
FI: What appeals to you in Islam?
Clarke: Historically, Islam had a great deal of tolerance for other views and offered the world its priceless wisdom in the form of astronomy and algebra. And, as you know, Islam helped rescue Western civilization from the Dark Ages by preserving classical texts and transmitting them to the West. We, on the other hand, burned the library at Alexandria. If Islam hadn’t fallen into internecine warfare and had gone on to conquer the rest of Europe, we’d have avoided a thousand years of Christian barbarism.
http://www.secularhumanism.org/library/fi/clarke_19_2.html
I don’t see what the muslims have to complain about-it’s only a ban on MINARETS, not MOSQUES after all.
As I said in a previous post on this subject, Muslims DO NOT need minarets to freely worship. It is a lie to say so. Minarets are only necessary for three things. 1) To issue the call to prayer. 2) as expressions of triumphalism and 3) as a means of intimidation.
1) Even if the President were not just kidding himself about the call to prayer not being allowed, agitating for it to be allowed in wider and wider areas would only be the logical next step. Muslims would not cease in their cries of discrimination and hatred until someone would allow it.
2) Minarets are a visible expression of triumphalism. They are built in the first place to stamp a skyline for Islam, to claim territory for Islam and to send the message to all who see them that Islam is over all.
3) Minarets are also instruments of intimidation. Why else are they built as big as they can be built? There are some in Arab countries as big as skyscrapers. In other countries which allow them, the race is on to build the biggest minarets that Saudi money can buy. Some planned minarets are quite purposely designed to be bigger than surrounding church spires. Meanwhile in all Muslim countries, laws are in place which prohibit any church spire or synagogue dome from being taller than any nearby minaret.
The Swiss apparently saw through the smokescreens being thrown up and saw a future in which the race would be on to build the biggest dang minarets that oil money could buy in order to to junk up the quaint and historical shape of their cities and towns. They said no to Islam laying claim to their visual territory.
What a surprise!
A while back, visiting Germany, I fell amongst some anti-gun-nuts. When i countered their anecdotal examples of Guns=violent crime….I cited switzerland.
Their response…”Oh yes, the Swiss problem…”
Swiss are very law-abidding, peace-loving, neutral..and universally, heavilly armed…..with no sense of HAHA.
They have a reveered tradition of marksmanship…..
Anything resembling the “cartoon riots” would end badly for the rioters.
I don’t know who this Dean from Ohio is, apart from his comments, but he is exactly right.
Also, take note: Our supposed friend in the UK, Daniel Hannan, has come out against this vote by the Swiss people — who wish only to PROTECT themselves from the march of Islam.
No wonder the UK finds itself in such dire circumstances: Its best defenders drink the sacramental kool-aid of non-discrimination and diversity — to their shame and to their ultimate defeat. Is Mr. Hannan merely an appeaser or is he really that blind to the Islamic threat?
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/author/danielhannan/
It’s no secret that the Moors are on they’re way back to Europe, and North America, to boot.
Kudos to the Swiss electorate.
Show me a place of unrest and I show an islamic movement.If muslims are in minority they cry persecution,if in majority the reason for killing others is koran
Marina, don’t surrender just yet.
If it gets down to political suicide or the Swiss telling the ICC to F%&K itself, I’m hoping they use a condom.
There is a reason why Hitler left the Swiss alone when he overran the rest of Europe.
The ICC has no real enforcement power, so any state can tell them to pound sand and the ICC will just whine about it to the Security Council….
This just might expose the fact that there is no such thing as international law. It’s all a Socialist delusion. If the ICC finds against the Swiss the ICC will lose.
When the smoke clears Switzerland will still be right where it is, the ICC will be even more of a joke then it is now.
So I expect some judge will drop a hint in the ear of an ICC judge and the whole thing will get shuffled off to one side.
The UN charter says that the UN CANNOT intervene in the internal affairs of a Sovereign nation. External, yes.
As a part of the UN, that means the ICC doesn’t have jurisdiction over the internal affairs of Switzerland.
“The Law does not go where enforcement cannot reach”
-Blackstone
Article 2 PP7
“Nothing contained in the present Charter shall authorize the United Nations to intervene in matters which are essentially within the domestic jurisdiction of any state or shall require the Members to submit such matters to settlement under the present Charter; but this principle shall not prejudice the application of enforcement measures under Chapter Vll.”
So the same security council that refused to sanction military action against dozens of the worlds tyrants is going to declare war on the worlds oldest Democracy? Fat chance. Especially since the only nation that has the slightest chance of successful military action against Switzerland is the USA and we are sort of busy at the moment. If the UN wants us to invade somebody, they will have to get in line. Not that it would get that far. The permanent powers will fall all over each other vetoing that resolution.
Remember Switzerland is where crooked politicians keep their money. As do most of the 3rd world’s tyrants. Then there are the OIL sheiks. Nobody is going to mess with Switzerland.
# 19, Darcy,
thanks for the link! It’s really sad to read things like that from Hannan. But the comments are great. Can his readers convince him he should reevaluate all this stuff if he wants to be the next PM? Let’s hope they can.
Good news: our REAL friend in Holland, Geert Wilders has congratulated Switzerland (cannot find the English version yet, sorry)
http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/article1321812.ece/Zwitsers_stemmen_voor_verbod_minaretten
It is readily apparent that the women of the world will have to save the day for the flaccid, dribbling males. Well done, Swiss women.
Unfortunately for us, while Obama lives large partying, golfing and traveling, most of the world’s testosterone has ended up in Russia and the Middle East. And not being used in a good way, either.
Dean From Ohio has nailed it. DFO should start his/her own blog. Clear writing and clear thinking are needed in this battle of civilizations.
I’m really going to mess with your minds this time and take you — if you’re willing — all the way back to 1528:
On War Against Islamic Reign of Terror by Martin Luther
http://www.lutherdansk.dk/On%20war%20against%20Islamic%20reign%20of%20terror/On%20war%20against%20Islamic%20reign%20of%20terror1.htm
To the uninitiated (regarding medieval church history), some sections of this article may be offensive; but do read through it to the parts that deal specifically with Islam — you may be surprised to learn that little has changed in almost 600 years. It’s actually quite chilling.
1) The Swiss can decide what they want in their own country.
2) In the last 60 years, how many churches have been constructed in the muslim countries? Zero!!
3) In the last 60 years, how many mosques have been constructed in Europe? Thousands!!
4) Every islamic commentator speaks about “discrimination”!!!!
5) When in Rome, do as the Romans do! Are the muslims in Europe listening?
Sure thing, Kade.
I’ll worry about their tender feelings over the minarets when they allow Christians to build churches in Islamic countries, stop beating up Jews in Paris and other cities, apologize for the Taliban blowing up the magnificent statues of Buddha in Afghanistan (which were considered culturally significant by the UN before they got blasted to smithereens), stop killing Buddhists in Thailand, leave the Hindus alone, decide that being gay is not something worthy of a death sentence, and don’t get their panties in a twist when Greek kids in Australia decide to eat salami for lunch during Ramadan.
And oh, yeah, accept the fact that a woman can wear a bikini without deserving to get raped because she is, as one Muslim leader stated, “like uncovered meat before cats”.
Tolerance isn’t a one-way street. Maybe they should go get some before lecturing the rest of us kufrs on our evil ways and having snits that escalate into violence, don’t ya think??
When I visited my wife’s family in Bavaria this last October I heard a popular ring tone on the local cell phones. It started with the sound of the Muslim call to prayer followed by a the sound of a gun shot. Followed by sound of a lever action gun being reloaded, followed by a second gun shot. The ring tone concluded with very happy traditional German brass music. I think the average Bavarian has had enough also. It is just a matter of time before the politicians come around.
30. Dan Canaveral: “When I visited my wife’s family in Bavaria this last October I heard a popular ring tone on the local cell phones. It started with the sound of the Muslim call to prayer followed by a the sound of a gun shot.”
I hear they have another popular ring tone that starts with the sound of Kol Nidre. Gotta love them Germans and their religious tolerance.
I am sick and tired of hearing about muslim backlash. How about some west backlash? Like for instance, any uprising, any at all, and the whole family is deported including aunts and uncles?
Then, if they wish to re-enter the country, let them hire a lawyer at their own expense, to prove that they ‘deserve’ to live there.
To be under the blackmail and extortion of unruly criminals is ridiculous. Who runs the country? Certainly not the Islam mafia, as we have laws to deal with the mafias.
When compared to the steeple, there is something vaguely phallic about the minaret, but we can give the Swiss the benefit of the doubt, and assume that such was is not their specific reason for cutting them down to size…
Conquest, murder and plunder have always been important since the birth of the islamic doctrine, and today no less than in earlier times. Shortly after the death of their prophet Mohammed, the muslim Arabs, vastly inferior in both number and sophistication, (unless you see Islamic fervor as supreme sophistication) conquered and subjugated the Persian empire in less than a half-century! It would be prudent to consider this historic fact as “Exhibit A”, and keep in mind that the last Islamic attempt to conquer Europe failed when the siege of Vienna was lifted in-extremis, whith the help of John the king of Poland in 1683. The cavalry, literally!
By the way, what was the date of this timely rescue? September 11! If you are somnolent enough to swallow the politically correct phrase “the religion of piece”, you might as well assume that the september 11 date for the spectacular resumption of Islamic ambitions in 2001 was a pure coincidence… What are the chances for such coincidence? Well, one in three-sixty-five! Exercise your freedom of independent thought, and reach your own conclusion.
On the next morning, the bakers of Vienna curved their heretofore linear pastry into an almost closed curve, creating what we know today as the “croissant”, so the relieved people of Vienna could eat the symbol of Islam adorning the Ottoman flag for breakfast, in celebration of this unexpected rescue from the imminent threat of plunder and enslavement.
Think about it the next time you enjoy a croissant. Think of your indulgence in the croissant as “Exhibit B”, a symbolic rendition of all the privileges bestowed on you by the western civilization since the birth of modern science in the 16th century, when Persia lost everything, (and is still attempting to restore its former glory nowadays “whatever means necessary”), including nuclear fission.
Let the minarets dominate your skyline, and in less than a half-century, you can expect to lose all your western privileges, from the modest croissant, all the way up to individual liberty and freedom of speech. We should be grateful towards the Swiss in general and the Swiss women in particular, for throwing the first stone, which by the way is quite a fitting metaphor, unfortunately.
Anyone as ignorant of history as Arthur C. Clark should be more reticent to make statements about it in public.
1. Muslims never invented anything of note. During their empires, there was some knowledge distributed between Europe, India, and China, but it’s not clear who distributed the knowledge (except that we know in one important case it was a Christian, Macro Polo) or how it might have gone if there had been a different empire.
2. Muslims had little to do with preserving Greek writings during the Middle Ages. The influx of Greek writings happened after the fall of Constantinople and the ensuing flood of Christian refugees into Western Europe. It was Constantinople that preserved the Greek writings.
3. No one knows for sure who burned the library at Alexandria, but most likely it was during a Muslim sack of the city.
4. The thousand years of “Christian” barbarism was, more than anything else, just a period of extreme poverty caused by endless invasions from (mostly) non-Christian barbarians and Muslims. And the barbaric activities that Christians are so often accused of were all commonplace in the non-Christian world at the time.
5. Over the centuries of Muslim dominance, some of the most civilized places in the world (Persia and Egypt, for example) were reduced to barbarism –not from wars but just from social failure. The beginning of the downfall was when Europeans found sea routes to Eastern Asia. The Muslims had squandered the accumulated wealth of centuries of pre-Muslim civilization, and without the constant infusion of new wealth from trade between other, more productive areas, the Muslim regions collapsed. Meanwhile, modern civilization grew from the battered survivors of Christianity. With this historical evidence, the idea that Islam could have saved Christian Europe from barbarism is laughable.
# 15 YWN: Posts
“To AC,
May be they should’ve and here’s why:
The following is from Free Inquiry magazine,
A Chat With Arthur C. Clarke
FI: What appeals to you in Islam?
Clarke: Historically, Islam had a great deal of tolerance for other views and offered the world its priceless wisdom in the form of astronomy and algebra. And, as you know, Islam helped rescue Western civilization from the Dark Ages by preserving classical texts and transmitting them to the West. We, on the other hand, burned the library at Alexandria. If Islam hadn’t fallen into internecine warfare and had gone on to conquer the rest of Europe, we’d have avoided a thousand years of Christian barbarism.”
Which is complete and utter rubbish from begining to end and just shows that Arthur C Clarke despite being a brilliant scientist and writer knew absolutely NOTHING about History and Islam. BTW did you know he was also a PAEDOPHILE which could explain his liking for the Paedophile 20% profit Mohammad’s invented CULT Islam. He lived in Sri Lanka so he could get uninterrupted access to little boys and this was the reason why although given a Knighthood he was NEVER presented with it by any member of the Royal family.
Helps when you know what you are dealing with hey both Clarke and Islam.
@ John (23):
Thank you for cheering me up! I’m less pessimistic now. But – may I play Negative Nancy one more time? – many things in Europe depend on what the scum on the top wants.
When socialist Schröder was the Chancellor of Germany, a certain princess of Monaco – married to a very ill-mannered prince or whatever from Germany – wanted to make the press stop reporting on her husband peeing publicly or something like that. So, she decided to castrate the freedom of speech in Germany, and the European Court agreed (OF COURSE…). The government (socialist + green) could appeal, but DIDN’T WANT TO, so the time was over and now nobody in Germany is allowed to say a bad (EVEN TRUE!!!!) thing about ANY public person (even a last Z-list actress).
Another example comes from Italy. A Muslim guy felt offended by crosses in public places. And no court in Italy would give him right. So he went to the European Court and WON (OF COURSE…): Italy was OBLIGED to remove crosses out of schools, I think, or hospitals, or another public places. Whatever. Fortunately, conservative Berluscony still has guts. He just said to “Europe” to go and f… itself: “It’s Italy, we love our crosses, so shut up, mf…s”.
See? It all depends on who’s on the top right now. Unfortunately for the Swiss, their guys want the islamization to continue. Fortunately for the Swiss, those guys are not the “ultimate power” in the country. The last word REALLY belongs to the PEOPLE. If the Euro-Court will decide to screw them, they’ll probably make a referendum and screw the Court instead. THAT’S WHAT I HOPE FOR.
This is utterly retarded. Does anyone seriously think minarets are poised to dominate the ‘swiss skyline’ any time soon? uhhh — where exactly? switzerland has hardly any muslims and they tend to be turkish, not islamic fundamentalists. it takes these swiss muslims twelve years minimum to obtain citizenship, and total fluency in a swiss language.
still, good to know that europeans are in general more xenophobic and petty than americans.
////31. biblio44:
(30. Dan Canaveral: “When I visited my wife’s family in Bavaria this last October I heard a popular ring tone on the local cell phones. It started with the sound of the Muslim call to prayer followed by a the sound of a gun shot.”)
I hear they have another popular ring tone that starts with the sound of Kol Nidre./////
YES, IT’S VERY POPULAR AMONG LEFT ACTIVISTS AND MUSLIMS.
Marina
Swizerland doesn’t belong to the EU (smart guys those Swiss) so the European Court has no authority over them.
To Biblio44
Go take a hike about your tolerance. The same I see no reason to tolerate the Aztec religion or the burning of wives in the Hinduistif religion I see no reason to tolerate a religion who is at war with eveything else (and that in their (un)holoy book not from the practice of misguided rulers) and teaches that its followers are übermenschen entitled to conquer, enslave and rape other people (not to mention the status of dhimmi.) plus the subordination of state to Islam
The people who made First Amendment had in mind religions who implicitly or explicitly:
-Accepted separation of Church and State: “Give to Cesear what belongs to Cesar abnd tp God what belongs to God”
-Followed the Golden Rule
-Accepted the idea that all men are created equal (yes I know about slavery) or at least that their followers didn’t deserve special privileges just because they were of this religion.
-Weren’t at war with other religions.
That applies to Christianism (even if its reciors is not spotless). It doesn’t apply to Islam.
Had America’ Founding Fathers had a first hand experience with Islam, the Aztecs or wive burning the First Amendment would have been writen very differently
They had better start banning minarets AND mosques before the Muslims gain electoral victory and start tearing down their cathedrals.
Jihadism is not the greatest threat we face in the rise from Muslims. Islam is based on theocracy The “Mosque” is the State. Even the most “moderate” Muslim believes their faith is destined to rule the world. not just spiritually, but politically.
Our Constitution was the world’s first proclamation against theocracy. It is a core principle of our exceptionalism. We cannot preserve our form of government if we permit a primitive, brutal, theocratic religion to get a stranglehold on our nation trough either terrorist strategy or placid PC. acceptance. The “Right” must dedicate itself to stopping its progress before it reaches the level it has achieved in Europe.
“Swiss feminists were apparently in the lead in the “Stop the Minarets” campaign. No surprise there really. Salman Rushdie is not the only one to read Islamic texts (and behavior) as an assault on women. Anyone with eyes open, certainly an intelligent female, would. If only our own feminists could get off their reactionary multi-culturalist behinds in this regard.”
When you realize that the objection by feminists is to minarets and their phallic shape, (as mentioned at the Times link) and not specifically Islam, the reality comes clear.
Since the prime objective of feminism is to “liberate” women from the “oppression” of husbands and children, the fact that American feminists haven’t noticed this issue is no surprise at all. Men are ALL pigs, according to feminism, and to single out one group from the many would take focus away from the Violence Against Women Act, which has proven thus far to be the most efficient means of achieving their actual goals here in the US.
VAWA is due to be reauthorized in 2010, and this time around is facing some serious challenges. Feminists can’t let that happen, as it has only destroyed thousands of families, and their goal is millions. This is not even to mention the legions of feminists it employs, who otherwise would not have jobs at all, as degrees in women’s studies are worthless in the private-sector job market.
They simply don’t have any time to concern themselves with buildings in Switzerland. We’ve got too many women who are still married, some of whom (horrors!) are actually taking care of their own children in their own homes.
how can maintaining the centuries-old status quo be a “right-wing initiative”? such blatant bias shows the hubris of the news media’s agenda being promoted in our faces.
This is just another instance of the government not wanting to listen to the people. This time, the people made sure their voices were heard after all.
JFM:
No, the First Amendment would not have been written differently. The founding fathers were not ignorant of different religions. One of those founding fathers was Thomas Jefferson and he sent our fledgling navy to Libya to fight Islamic pirates…and yet he felt no need to change the the first amendment. But Switzerland is not the United States.
When Russian communists faced a violent Islamist insurgency in Central Asia in 1920s, they coudnt find there proletariat to make ally in their struggle. So they found a substitute for this: instead of oppressed class, they used the oppressed sex, raising a banner of women liberation. And this worked fine, combined with government terror against insurgents: womenfolks did not fear government oppression, which was given anyway, as a remote and not so imminent danger, while oppression from their husbands, brothers and other tribesmen was close and proximate everyday nightmare. This is a lesson for counter-isurgency in Afganistan: defend local women, and you will have a half of the nation on your side. As for Europe, there we can take a page from Queen Isabella playbook: give every Muslim a clear-cut choice between full assimilation and deportation. And also use feminism as an ally.
As Luther Martin examined things in 1787:
“The basis of all ancient and modern confederacies is the freedom and the independency of the states composing it. The states forming the Amphictionic council were equal, though Lacedemon, one of the greatest states, attempted the exclusion of three of the lesser states from this right. The plan reported, it is true, only intends to diminish those rights, not to annihilate them. It was the ambition and power of the great Grecian states which at last ruined this respectable council. The states as societies are ever respectful. Has Holland or Switzerland ever complained of the equality of the states which compose their respective confederacies? Bern and Zurich are larger than the remaining eleven cantos (so are many of the states of Germany); and yet their governments are not complained of. Bern alone might usurp the whole power of the Helvetic confederacy, but she is contented still with being equal.”
Has confident and locally secure Switzerland now had their Awakening that they are able to have locally effective and secure laws that reflect the nature of their culture without the interference of their National government? That era of Confederalism, before Napoleon’s conquest, was one of common agreement amongst the Cantons on some issues and then leaving for the localized governments other isssues. When did the Swiss hand so much to the National government that those who represent the people of Switzerland now feel it is their right to tell all the Cantons what to do on matters local? Was that given up for a robust defense of the Nation by universal conscription? To save the Nation with a universally manned military did the people actually agree to have how their society would be run dictated from the National level and not the local? So long as every man defends his Nation he must have a say in what that Nation is to be from the local, municipal government to the National government…and when the National seeks to abrogate that and dictate a society to the people, then you no longer have representative government, but tyranny.
While I do like A. C. Clarke he forgets that Christianity, via the bloodbath of the 30 years war, produced the separation of Church and State via Westphalia. Let that be over-run and there would be NO Westphalia, NO civil government that is not tied to religion, indeed none of the aspects that Christianity produced by agreeing that the Church should not dictate to the State what to do. He also forgets that those of other religions when ALLOWED under Islamic rule must pay an annual TAX for their religious beliefs. Of course under some regimes no other religion was permitted at all… and don’t mind the blood and ruination of a native society when that happens, right?
Christianity waded through the blood and deaths necessary to call into question waging war under the banner of the Prince of Peace. Islam does not call the blood it spills into question. One has reformed, the other has not. Christianity moved to become the universal religion through reason. Islam still uses the sword point.
I will stand with those that support reason over violence as violence is relegated to the third option, as turning your cheek twice invites your other cheeks to be ill-used. Tolerance is notable in that it, also, has limits. We are but poor mortals and we recognize that our toleration is not Deific and Unlimited. If we cannot come to reason together, then being civil is the best second option… when you try to exploit that to force myself and others to think a certain way, then you are asking for a fight and liable to get one. I will not start such fights, I will remain civil and expect that in return: civility is the touchstone of civilization. Bring a fight to me and I sure, as hell, will end it.
Perhaps, just perhaps, the Swiss can remember what it means to be Swiss. And find themselves in the modern role of defending the Gates of Vienna.
Good going, Swiss. Now, ban the burka.
What is really surprising is that the Swiss government would entrust such a decision to its citizenry. Who knew the majority of them were right-wing? We certainly can’t be giving them a choice in such matters again. After all, its not their country, Europe belongs to the left.
#34 Doc, you forgot the wheel. Before Ol’ Mo the goat roper had his moment of fame, Wheeled carts drawn by donkeys were the normal means used in the transportation of goods in what would become the Umma. After the Muslim took over the Wheel vanished.
That is because the Muslims were not smart enough to figure out to keep the road in repair. Without the roads, Camels became the choice in transporting goods overland.
That continued until after the Cursades.
All the arab/Muslims have ever ben good at was propaganda. Unfortunately, they are VERY good at that.
Roger no doubt about it if I was holding a Gay Pride parade it would be in Tel Aviv not Cairo, but Jerusalem might be a problem too. Religious fundamentalists who find and act on the intolerance in their religious writings are the issue and perhaps Islam has more than their fair share but as some of the comments here have suggested the mass deportation and perhaps extermination of Muslims reflects badly on those you seem to make common cause with you Roger.
As a side note here is a quote from the Autobiography of Irene Grunbaum (University of Nebraska Press, 1996).
“Farewell, Albania, I thought. You have given me so much hospitality, refuge, friends, and adventure. Farewell, Albania. One day I will tell the world how brave, fearless, strong, and faithful your sons are; how death and the devil can’t frighten them. If necessary, I’ll tell how they protected a refugee and wouldn’t allow her to be harmed even if it meant losing their lives. The gates of your small country remained open, Albania. Your authorities closed their eyes, when necessary, to give poor, persecuted people another chance to survive the most horrible of all wars. Albania, we survived the siege because of your humanity. We thank you.”
How ’bout “Norman Gershman has become accustomed to the reactions from people who see his photos and read his stories about Muslims sheltering Jews and saving their lives during the Holocaust.”
Isolated stories like these don’t prove a case but they should give us pause.
Roger are you suggesting we here do the same and ban minarets? Of course not you know how foolish and reactionary you would seem so yea the Swiss these progressives who gave women the right to vote in the year of our Lord 1971.
“” … next time you want to have a (sodomite’s) parade, want to hold it in Tel Aviv? Or in Cairo? Or how about Riyadh? “”
Truth be told, every damned day in Cairo and Riyadh, in Khartoum and Gaza and in occupied Judea and Samaria is a sodomites’ parade: Acute sexual repression, insufficiently relieved by epidemic goat, sister and little-boy buggering, being a great big component part of the shirt-lifting, turd-burgling, pillow-biting, mattress-munching, false-fuhrer-followers’ psychopathology.
Brian Richard Allen
Lost Angels – Calif0bambicated 90028
And the Very Far Abroad
You let ‘em in,you,you bank their money,while making huge profits, then you tell them they can’t pray?Let ‘em build! Besides minarets are far more attractive than the modern “architecture” that disfigures European cities. Hey I have a great idea:Sell off the empty churches, the euroeffetes don’t use to the Muslims;turn the steeple into a minaret,and ALLAH AKBAR! instant mosque!Smaller carbon footprint too!Seriously, though,let the eurotrash reap what they have sown!
What I can not understand why there is a need for nation-wide ban. This is essentially a local issue: If city counsil does not like minaret building, they have every right to ban it, as any other development project which local population does not like. Nothing wrong in allowing voters in states and municipalities to decide such matters. The same about allowing Muslims to buy real estate in a given state or municipality: a local issue. Every community have right to decide whom they want to accept as their members, and whom they don’t. This is the essense of democracy.
As a Muslim living in Switzerland I cannot agree with what the people of Switzerland have chose to do. I believe it is pushes the world of Islam only further in opposite direction. I agree with Sergey that this can be a local issue not vital that it is nasional. I understand to live in another country is to accept their customs but I do not understand how the beautiful minarets can make harm, when there are so few mosques in Switzerland anyway.
#10 This does nothing except push liberal muslims to the middle and moderate muslims to the extreme.
Why should it? Why does a ban on what even Leila above claims is just a decoration on a building push people to extremes? For that matter, why should novels and cartoons cause people to riot, burn, and murder? I think the Swiss recognize a reality that our multicultis refuse to see.
#55 Leila
I understand to live in another country is to accept their customs but I do not understand how the beautiful minarets can make harm, when there are so few mosques in Switzerland anyway.
By the same token many Christian churches are beautiful, but how many of them can be built in the Muslim countries? Sorry–its a double standard, and a lot of the people in the West are getting tired of it.
I agree with Tcobb. Muslims cannot deny freedom of religion in their home countries and still expect unbridled freedom of religion in their host countries. Unfortunately, such freedom is very one-sided in Islam, where most Islamic countries prohibit building new churches/synagogues, repairing churches that have fallen into disrepair, or even assembling in public and, horror of horrors, actually talking to Muslims about Christianity or Judaism.
“Muslims cannot deny freedom of religion in their home countries and still expect unbridled freedom of religion in their host countries.”
It’s good to know we ought to be taking marching orders from backward countries in the Middle East rather than respect the heritage of religious freedom in Europe and the United States. Apparently the lowest common denominator will rule the day. You folks are a bunch of weak-kneed sellouts of your own traditions. That sort of an attitude is a greater threat to Western Civilization than the Muslim extremists themselves.
“And speaking of multi-culturalism, before the MC Bourgeoisie deluges us with their fuddy-duddy complaints that Judaism and Christianity have also had their bouts of misogyny and homophobia, let me answer with a “yeah, well, we all know that.” But those two religions long ago began to reform themselves in those areas in many of their branches and we all know that too. Don’t believe me (or still want to lie about it for multi-culti purposes), next time you want to have a gay pride parade, want to hold it in Tel Aviv or Cairo? Or how about Riyadh?”
Sorry to burst your bubble, but it’s not Christianity or Judaism that have led the way toward gay rights in the United States or Europe – rather it was people who stood up to those institutions. As recently as 2003, we had a conservative, Catholic U.S. Supreme Court justice grumbling that homosexuality could no longer be criminalized. Many Christian churches in the U.S. still reject and ostracize homosexual members of their community, and say the most vile and dehumanizing things about them. And if you think Christian countries are friendly to homosexuality, may I point to Russia as a counterexample?
Until the Christian and Jewish faiths actually make an effort to better accomodate homosexuals, they can’t take credit for what others have accomplished on behalf of the gay community in spite of their efforts.
P.S. Tel Aviv is in Israel, which, last time I checked, was a Jewish state.
#30. I gotta get me one of those ring tones. Where, please?
As an American Muslim who is highly educated about the issues let me say:
There are two groups of extremist and most people are hostage to these two groups:
1.Extremist in the muslim world
2.Right wing extremist that hate everything islamic.
The rest of us are only reacting to these groups who are going against each other always over nighting.
Don’t associate the action’s of one person or group of people to the billion muslims in the world who are minding their business.
If the extremist had 1% support of the Billion Muslims, these issues would have been much different and you don’t need phd to understand that much.
peace
#62. Mohammad, we who are being attacked by the extremists would appreciate that 1% support by the Billion Muslims. Why are we not getting it?
As well they should. It’s about time America’s Feminists speak up !
if the Swiss ppl want to ban minarets, they have the right to, if the the muslims don’t like it they can go back home and build minarets to their hearts content.
Indonesian Christians were killed by peaceful Muslims while their churches were burned to the ground. Sudan and Nigeria are other examples of killing Christians for lazy plundering devils who destroy or convert churches to mosques. Peaceful Muslims killed off all the Jews and Christians from their homes in ancient Mecca and now in Mauritina while giving their (all non muslims Infidels!) homes and property to Muslims in Senegal who were Arabic speaking. Nobody cares that Cypruss was invaded illegally and Christians and Jews and Greeks were told they had 24 hours to leave their homeland with nothing by the Turkey who was not tolerant towards the Armenians and Greek Christians. If the outrageous breeding and feeding off of Europe’s Social Welfare system continues, Europe will be a Third World Continent. Maybe Muslims will allow you to exist if you are willing to pay the ‘Poll Tax’ and the Blood Tax. I will never understand how a woman will convert to a religion where she is valued less than a donkey. Mohammed said “Allah made women stupid and their (women’s) testimony is only half a man’s testimony in law and life . Surah 7-8.