Update
I sent this piece together with a letter to the editors at Lancet and to the authors whose emails were contained in the Lancet article. I offered to shorten the piece so that Lancet might print it as an article or even as a letter in their pages. I did this on Sunday. To date, I have received absolutely no answer. I also sent this article to Rita Giacoman at Birzeit University who introduced the study in Lancet.
I’ve heard nothing back but I know I’m on their radar. Why? Because I began to receive persistent, sarcastic, slightly hysterical, and fairly articulate, pro-Lancet comments at this site–comments which denigrate my article and my site’s “right wing” point of view. I have posted them all–but then stopped doing so at least in one case which involved someone who had been posting very long and very frequent comments.
Once Lancet agrees to publish my point of view in their pages, I promise to post these long and freqent pro-Lancet comments here. Let’s see what happens.
**I have just heard back from Lancet. They have asked me to submit my critique. I will certainly do so. Stay tuned.
I just heard from Lancet.
Lancet Study Does Not Mention Honor Killings, Forced Veiling, Arranged Marriages, etc.
It’s official. Britain’s premier medical journal Lancet has been completely Palestinianized. It no longer bears any relationship to the first-rate scientific journal it once was. Perhaps Lancet is no longer a standard-bearer but has become a follower in the global movement in which standards have plunged, biases have soared, and Big Lies now pass for top-of-the-line academic, scientific work.
The post-colonial academy is itself thoroughly colonized by the false and dangerous ideas of Edward Said (please read my dear friend Ibn Warraq’s most excellent book Defending the West: A Critique of Edward Said’s Orientalism). However, I once believed that Said’s paranoid perspective had primarily infected and indoctrinated only the social sciences, humanities, and Middle East Studies. We now see his malign influence at work in a new article, just out today, by professors who work at the Department of Medicine at Harvard University; the Division of Epidemiology and Community Health at Minnesota University’s School of Public Health; The Boston University School of Medicine; the School of Nursing at the University of Medicine and Dentistry of New Jersey; and at the School of Social Work and Social Welfare at Jerusalem’s Hebrew University.
Their study is titled: “Association between exposure to political violence and intimate-partner violence in the occupied Palestinian territory: a cross-sectional study.” And yes, they have found that Palestinian husbands are more violent towards Palestinian wives as a function of the Israeli “occupation”— and that the violence increases significantly when the husbands are “directly” as opposed to “indirectly” exposed to political violence.
I believe that Arab and Muslim men, including Palestinian men, are indeed violent towards Arab and Muslim women. I also believe that war-related stress, including poverty, usually increases “intimate partner violence,” aka male domestic violence. But beyond that, how does one evaluate this study?
First, let’s follow the money. This study was funded by the Palestinian National Authority as well as by the Core Funding Group at the University of Minnesota. The Palestinian Authority is not a disinterested party. But even worse: The data was collected by the Palestinian Central Bureau of Statistics. Palestinians are the people who once told the world that Israeli soldiers shot young Mohammed al-Dura, committed a massacre in Jenin, and purposely attacked Palestinian civilians (who just happened to be jihadists dressed in civilian clothing or hostage-civilians behind whom the jihadists hid).
Second, let’s note that the study has a political goal which trumps any objective academic or feminist goal. (These researchers claim to have a “feminist” perspective). In my view, this study wishes to present Palestinian men as victims even when (or precisely because) those men are battering their wives. And, it wishes to present Palestinian cultural barbarism, which includes severe child abuse, as also related to the alleged Israeli occupation.
Third, therefore, the study has purposely omitted the violence, including femicide, which is routinely perpetrated against daughters and sisters in “occupied Palestine” and has, instead, chosen to focus only on husband-wife violence and only on couples who are currently married. The honor murders of daughters and sisters by their parents and brothers is a well known phenomenon in Gaza and on the West Bank.
I have written about some high profile cases before. “Souad” barely survived being set on fire by her West Bank family because she became pregnant out of wedlock by the man who promised to marry her; Israelis nursed her back to health and she fled the area for Europe, where she wrote a book about her near-death experience. Asma’a al-Ghoul, whom I interviewed in 2008, was fired for writing a series of articles about honor killings on the West Bank and in Gaza. These barbaric, misogynist, and femicidal customs are not due to any alleged political, military, or economic “occupation” by Israelis.
Fourth, if one is completely serious about violence against women, the researchers would have factored in the role of Hamas, which has “occupied” Gaza both militarily and religiously. Since they have done so, more and more (previously modern) women have been forced to veil; more child marriages as well as arranged marriages are now taking place.
What an insane world! Dr. Chesler, I hope you will send this on the authors of this article. We have let this nonsense creep up on us little by little. It is time to step up and tell the Emperor he has no clothes.
Anti-Zionism is a well-established tradition among European academics, and wife beating is a well-established tradition in the Arab world. The Marxist-Islamic alliance makes leftist academics blind to the abuse of women–something we have seen many times before.
In one respect, however, the doctors who write for Lancet are on to something. One would have expected the Enlightenment to reach the world of Islam in this age of globalization and computers. Anti-Zionism has so filled Islamists with hatred that they can’t escape from the harsh traditions that not only imprison women but keep the entire society trapped in a world of blind faith and hatred.
there will not be peace for a hundred years if then. there is nothing that israel can talk about with these backward, uncivilized, deranged people. as for the decaying brits, they are pathetic with their bad teeth, bad skin and delusional class system.
the uk is the toilet of europe and the moslems are crapping into it, daily. just as we are being crapped on by the moslem in the wh.
I’m not one often to break Godwin’s law, but in commenting on such an absurd study, should we pretend these people are capable of reasonable diaogue?… Harvard study shows murder of Goebbels family the fault of Red Army. “If one is not allowed to live with respect as a proper, world-dominating Nazi, then life can have no meaning for my children, let Odin sort them out… the existence of non-Nazi states is to blame for all our problems”, Goebbels told the Harvard scientists. “We’ve been fighting the Communists since the end of World War I, and now it’s come to this – how dare they have defended themselves so successfully against the bloody sacrifice of a generation of Aryan manhood.”
The Red Army took away his masculinity, the feminist scholars pointed out. Holy Mother in Heaven forbid that such an emasculated, effeminate creature should be held responsible for his actions.
Politics corrupts science, especially at the Lancet.
Here’s a list of linked articles on the two debunked Lancet-published studies on deaths of Iraqis during and since the 2003 invasion. Their lead author, Les Roberts, has been a political activist, who ran in a Democrat primary for Congress in 2006 in between the two studies. The first was debunked by various people including Fred Kaplan in Slate. The second was debunked both by David Kane at Harvard University, and by the Iraq Family Health Survey Study Group in the New England Journal of Medicine.
Sorry, I got mixed up. David Kane at Harvard debunked the first (2004) study in 2006, not the other study.
“Third, therefore, the study has purposely omitted the violence, including femicide, which is routinely perpetrated against daughters and sisters in “occupied Palestine” and has, instead, chosen to focus only on husband-wife violence and only on couples who are currently married. The honor murders of daughters and sisters by their parents and brothers is a well known phenomenon in Gaza and on the West Bank”.
…………………………………..
And a well known phenomenon in every islamic country and even in muslim communities in the west. Is Israel to blame for those too?
The Lancet is composed of yet another group of wretched far left moral degenerates. Is there any institution left in Britain which has not been hijacked by anti-Israel, pro-jihadi loons?
“I am not denying that war is Hell or that women do not often bear the brunt of war-related male frustration at home. I am challenging how Israel alone is being blamed in this study…”
…………………………………..
I have a problem with this particular passage. What do you mean Phyllis that you are challenging how Israel ALONE is being blamed? You seem to be implying that it bares some blame. Israel has NO ROLE whatsoever in muslim male violence against women in Gaza and Judea and Samaria.
There is only one way to understand the “Occupation” of the Palestinian males. They confuse the “occupation” with being eternally preoccupied with their mothers! They have been emasculated by their mothers whom they over-idealize yet they turn around and beat their own women. That tells you that they don’t feel good about themselves and they have the need to hate. They themselves say that they learn the hatred with their mother’s milk. They are taught to be violent, aggressive and are essentially predators. One only has to recall is the lynching in Ramallah of the Israelis who took a wrong turn and the Palestinians had to dip their hands in the blood of the Jewish victims.
Academics such as the Lancet ought to know by now that 95% of what we communicate, we communicate non-verbally. Their argument falls on its face because they fail to read the real predatory behavior of these tribal societies adhering to Islam. They will eternally feel themselves to be “Occupied” because they love the perverse sadomasochism of being the victim which calls to mind their favorite Arabic saying – He hits me and cries and races me to complain.
If Israel is to blame for violence against women among palestinians, who is to blame for violence against women in America, or Canada, or England, or…Wait; don’t tell me; let me guess…
Am I understanding the accompanying photo correctly? Those girls are brides? Or are they just participants? The photo appears directly after “…more child marriages as well as arranged marriages are now taking place.” The implication being that they are the ones being married off.
I took the photo the same way that Grantman did, but am pretty sure they are brides. From other things I’ve read I suppose these little girls stay with their parents until what, age 15? 14? 13? God help them.
If the contention is true then surely the figures of spousal abuse in sderot would be very similar (since it is also a warzone). I would bet everything I own that the figures of spousal abuse in sderot are lower than in Gaza or the west bank though.This is political correctness at its worst.
From reading previous articles with photographs, it would appear that these are child brides as this ‘custom’ is normal in that part of the uncivilised world. As for the article in The Lancet, it would be useful to have a direct link to complain and show this article up for what it is, lies. This kind of thing has to stop and unless it is exposed to the wider world, it will go on and the masses will be further educated into ignorance of the truth.
My father was a very intelligent and successful man (plenty of people willing and able to carry his coffin to his grave).. and he said: they should get an alarm clock, set it for 6 am, and GET UP AND GO TO WORK.
Another thing: when my parents visited Israel back in the 60s, they noticed that the kids playing on the streets during the day were Arab; the Jewish kids were AT SCHOOL, studying.
Anyway, Phyllis, you are a true hero, writing about this disfunctional evil pustulance upon the human race, week after week. Look after yourself.
Your article reflects the ongoing tragedy that is generated by the manipulation of falsehood. This is being compounded by the enlistment of prestigious journals like the “Lancet.” One query about your, as usual excellent work: The picture showing little children which you captioned – “Palestinian girls stand in front of a line of grooms during a mass wedding ceremony …” gives the impression that these seemingly seven-year-olds are the brides. Was that really the case. If not your caption is misleading. I would appreciate a response from you on this point. Thank you.
The Jew-hating on the left is becoming quite predictable financed, no doubt, by Saudi money. I am amazed that somewhere in the study someone didn’t lay some “blame” on George Bush.
7. I fear they’ll blame it on Israel, too! I actually am quite sure about it: Israel, America, The West, Europe, Unbelievers, The whole Non-islamic World.
The Point for us and Lancet and Whoever is: should we justify – say – Western Violence against Women because of “The War on Terror”, or “The Cold War”, which causes us Stress …?
Islamic Violence against Women started after the post-World War II. Settlement of Israel (which actually existed far before Muhammad – the Islamic Prophet – saw the Light of Earth), or is it far older? (This – in my Opinion – will be a Key to read Lancet’s Article, and understand its Non-sense).
11. I think this was a most disputed Event: at first it seemed them to be the Brides; then it seemed they were to feast only.
You should be careful with that picture. Though other Arab societies have child brides, the Palestinians generally do not. Those girls are part of the bridal party, not brides themselves.
Could have saved themselves a lot of time and money and simply read the Koran and Hadiths. Contained within is an instruction manual on misogyny: divinely sanctioned wife beatings, subordination of legal rights, portrayal of women as possessions to be used as sexual objects, and marriage to children to name a few.
What do you expect from a religion whose supposed “Prophet” was himself a pedophile married to a 9 year-old bride?
That he wrote about beating wives being the proper manner for discipline in the home can not be disputed. It is a founding principle of Islam that the whole world exists ONLY for the subjugation to the Islamic man and that all others are subordinate and servant to him.
We are not talking the whole “the man should be the head of his household” thing either. There is nothing in Jewish or Christian gospel about beating your wife or abusing your family in any way. In fact the opposite is true and speaks that the husband should serve his wife and family.
Only the evil could come up with the murder and mayhem commanded of in the Q’uran – directed at EVERYONE who is not a Muslim man.
What do you expect from a religion whose supposed “Prophet” was himself a pedophile married to a 9 year-old bride?
That he wrote about beating wives being the proper manner for discipline in the home can not be disputed.
Actually Muhammad wrote nothing since Kuran was written at least 20 years after his death. About wife beatings as fasr as I can remember there is nothing in the Kuran, it is in the haddiths (collections of sentences allegedly told by Muhammad) who are very important for defining islamic law). What is in the Kuran is that women will rarely enter Paradise and those who enter will be be relegated to its lowest layer.
It is a founding principle of Islam that the whole world exists ONLY for the subjugation to the Islamic man and that all others are subordinate and servant to him.
Agreed. According to Kuran or Haddiths (don’t remember) there is a special place in hell for women who, err…, had headaches.
The next thing they’ll write is that Israeli weapons actually kill Palestinians.
Thanks to soccer dad for the clarification about the photo.
Nice work Phyllis:
It is obvious that you desire to know the truth and seek it out and are rewarded when you find it(you decide what the reward is). It is also obvious that the highly educated professors also had a desire and that was to try and validate their own anti semetic hatred. It’s no wonder they went to the the spear point of Jew hatred to validate their feelings. They will have their reward too.
Thank you for standing with the truth and exposing their lies.
This is peer-reviewed science. It’s beyond criticism.
There will always be an England. Probably functioning under sharia law. Soon to be the capital of Euroabia. Currently slipping from second rate to third rate nation status. As for the Lancet…..hardly read by any professionals out of the United ‘Kingdom’. The whole British enterprise is beginning to reseemble Blanch’s disintergrating sister in A Streecar Named Desire.
Justice comes to OH.
OT but interesting
Yazeed Essa, a doctor who allegedly gave his wife cyanide telling her it was calcium, fled to Cyprus to avoid trial in 2005. He has finally given up the fight to be extradited and will stand trial starting Monday the 25th. It should be noted that not only was his wife murdered by this upstanding Muslim Dr., but she crashed head on into another vehicle on Feb 24th 2005 while dying from cyanide poisoning. OH welcomes the chance to put this so called healer behind bars for the rest of his life. I suppose the researchers will say this was caused by the Jews as well?
I am so pleased that you picked up on this ‘article.’ I, too, read it on Saturday and was incensed at the lies perpetrated. There is something sick at the heart of British intelligensia. This is just another of a number of anti-Israel articles written at The Lancet. The authors declare that there is ‘no conflict of interest.’ What does that mean, I ask.
Michael Gove today at The Daily Telegraph, UK, wrote a piece about the rise of anti-Semitism. Reading the comments, vile and repugnant as they are, one can see how right he is!
My milk went sour and its the Zionists fault just like when I stubbed my toe. If only they were all killed by the soldiers of the moon god and his child raping prophet.
All the Jews should just leave Europe and take all their money with them. Let the unemployed dole teet sucking muslims and their diversity (unless its Jews)spewing useful idiot dhimmis bankrupt the countries.
Arabs persecute Christians and whom does the Vatican blame? Israel of course. Are you surprised then that when an Arab man beats his wife, an Arab woman, it’s not the man’s fault – it is the Israel” fault? Such is the twisted logic of anti-Semites. (I know – they’re not anti-Semites, they’re just anit-Israel, wink, wink.)
Calvin Ball @ #30 – AGW was also peer reviewed and was beyond criticsm (but I assume you are being ironic).
HEY FOLKS,LET’S LOOK AT THE BRIGHT SIDE;AT LEAST THE LANCET DHIMBULBS DIDN’T BLAME IT ON BUSH!
Lancet has been kind. How about all those honor killings, the only way Islamist men can use to vent their frustrations and impotence against the Jews?
Cute trick by Lancet and the authors.
Men ‘exposed’ to more violence are more likely to be more violent at home.
Really?
By the same logic men who beat their wives are more likely to be in violent situations outside the home.
At which men would those be? Members of Hamas, the sort of guys who show up at violent protests, the kind of guy who always seems to be around when trouble is brewing, will be off the charts on ‘exposure to violence’. Which sort would not be at the low end of exposure to violence? well the sort of quiet peaceful guy who avoids trouble in the first place. Which guy is more likely to be the sort of scum who hits women?
Correlations are fun.
Set up a graph with exposure to police on one axis and domestic violence on the other and i’ll bet my bottom nickel that we can prove that exposure to police causes wife-beating.
Yeesh
Every con knows that people will believe what they wanted to hear in the first place and logic be damned. Throw in some dazzling “multivariate regression analysis” and a list of presitgious universities and the suckers will line up at the door.
Some Iranian calls President One the n word and everyone has their knickers in a twist. Call a Jew a ki*e, a blood-swiller, call Israel a sh*tty little country and you can nearly hear the applause. Funny how political correctness doesn’t extend to the Jews. In fact it would be politically INcorrect to neglect to blame all your insufficiencies on the Jews.
JFM: I think Wife Beating is in the Qouran, while the Hell is full of Women is in the Ahadith. Child Brides are in the Ahadith (Muhammad’s Life), too. Shari’a (Islamic) Law is a Compound of Qouran (Chapter NOT in chronological “Revelation’s” Order) + Sunnah (Ahadith).
Any increase in violence would be because of the wall. Can’t blow up Israeli women and children anymore? Beat your own!
A frustrated, anal patriarchy.
Mr. Netanyahu, tear down this wall!
Is there a footnote about how the “little Eichmanns” in the World Trade Center actually comitted suicide, too? This is our future of dhimmitude unless we call bullsh*t on such “scholarship” or whatever propaganda it is.
Sometime in the future, there will be a renaissance and our current era will be known as an age of superstition. Science has always been the socialist substitute for a religious god, so all socialistic advocacy is designated ‘science’. Science today is without credibility, and there appears to be no limit to the amount of nonesense that college professors are willing to label science.
Perhaps science has always been primarily an instrument of the state and prevailing social norms, and that’s why a few scientists stand out historically as having brought revolutionary ideas to the fore.
I don’t remember hearing Jewish wife beating during the Nazi occupation or in WWII concentration camps.
“..found that Palestinian husbands are more violent towards Palestinian wives”
… because of Islamic doctrine, customs and traditions. I guess none of these propagandists bothered to investigate those factors.
It seems pretty obvious that living in a violent society will infect the home, but the blame lies with whoever insists on living in a violent society.
I see that the University of Minnesota also contributed to this travesty of a report. As a student there 34 years ago I was shocked at the level of anti-Semitic and anti-Israel graphiti, the viewpoint that Jews aren’t real Americans, and the anti-Israel cartoons in the student paper. I see that things have not gotten any better there.
The Eurotrash face a bleak future: Dhimmitude and decrepitude. Their pandering to the Islamic beast won’t buy them any time. PHRANK’s suggestion is intriguing. The Jews should stage an exodus, taking with them their assets and what little culture remains on the continent. Let Eurabia fester in its own pus.
“Britain’s premier medical journal Lancet has been completely Palestinianized. ”
…and there lies the rub. Lancet is one of the most widely read and respected medical journals in the world. This will not hurt them but us who are out there on the front lines trying like heck to put out the fires.
We know what they wrote is complete insanity but for the rest, this is just fuel into the already raging out of control Antisemitic fire!
Well, i dispute that they couldn’t have blamed all the violence on isreal. they could have. not fairly, but its not hard in their warped minds.
what this is, is the infantilization of the palestinian people. they are all like that creep in forrest gump who slaps Jenny around and then blames it on Lydon Johnson and the vietnam war. Some people accept that excuse but even a slow person knows better.
I mean if the theory is that victims of violence shouldn’t be blamed for the violence they carry out, well, gee, why are we denouncing the isealis? Even if they were wrong (and they are not), they are just acting out based on the holocaust, right? And for that matter, people have generally concluded that the spaniards were the jerks of the new world, but let’s not forget that before the conqista, there was the reconquista, the reclaiming of spanish lands from the muslims who invaded them. Indeed, the vast majority of people who have kicked around others can plausibly claim to have been kicked, too.
But of course no one says that about the jews. to the jews we say the fact they have been victims of bigoted slaughter, they should be uniquely expected not to engage in it themselves, with the frequent and unfair claim that the isrealis are in fact as bad as the nazis. meanwhilie, the palestinains are actually as bad as the nazis, but that is okay because in the mind of the left, the palestinians, unlike the jews, are not responsible for their own conduct.
#31 Carla
Carla described the Catch-22. If you publish bogus scientific studies, you lose readership and authority. Lancet has to compensate for this by soliciting contributions, which don’t come without strings. We see the strings from this study, which further erodes credibility, readership, and makes them more dependent on the puppeteers.
I don’t know if Israel publishes any medical journals in English, but I’m sure that they have surpassed Lancet in credibility. Increased readership will follow, if this hasn’t already occurred.
Dr. Chessler, I hope you can see the obvious connection between this and Climategate. This junk science is part of a bigger juggernaut, and until that bigger juggernaut is brought under control, we’re going to be fighting peer-reviewed nonsense all over, whack-a-mole style. And frankly, some of the most egregious abusers of peer review have been feminist academics. It’s all one ball of yarn. You either have honest science or you don’t.
A couple of comments.
First of all: in Geraldine Brooks’ “Nine Parts of Desire” (she is an Australian journalist, of Catholic background, who converted to Judaism to marry her Jewish-American journalist husband, and they both spent quite a lot of time in the middle east) she has a chapter entitled ‘Conclusion: Beware of the Dogma’, toward the end of the book, that spends some time discussing one of the first ‘pride murder’ trials in Britain – of a Sudanese Muslim man who had murdered his Sudanese Muslim wife, because said wife had served him with a divorce notice [she had also fallen in love with a non-Muslim Englishman] – in 1993.
Brooks notes:
“This was not an isolated case: it simply happened to be the one I heard about.
” In a British study of family violence completed not long before Afaf’s death, the researchers found that *women married to men of Muslim background* [this is within the UK] were *eight times more likely* to be killed by their spouses, than any other women in Britain”.
Brooks doesn’t give the precise reference for that study (from the early 1990s in the UK) but perhaps you, Phyllis, have already seen it or could track it down.
Second: since the main subject is the local Arab Muslims in and around Israel, and what they do to their females (which seems to be much the same as Muslims everywhere, of all ethnicities, do to their females), I shall pass on a wrenching little story I found on the blog of one ‘solomonhezekiah’ who on 27 April 2008 had written an article on ‘honor’ murders, entitled ‘the price of honour’. On April 28 2008 at 6.35 pm one of his readers remarked:
“…Many years ago, in a galaxy far, far away (ie my youth) I worked for a year for Magen David Adom, and in a pub one night I met this big, horrible, skinhead Russian import who was doing his time in the IDF.
“He was about 18 and was back from a tour of duty in the West Bank where he and his buddy had found a 13 year old girl battered senseless, barely alive, and wrapped in a plastic sack.
“He was, honestly, not the nice face of the IDF or anything else, but he was sober and crying. I never forgot”.
(The same reader then added a story about a Coptic Christian doctor s/he knew to have charitably performed a ‘restoration of virginity’ op on a Muslim girl from, I think, Egypt, because, as the doctor explained to the writer, otherwise the girl would be ‘honor’ murdered by her family ).
Anyway: one wonders how many of the rabid Western haters of Zion would even begin to compute the datum of a big tough-looking teenage IDF soldier with a buzz-cut…weeping in a bar over his memory of – while on patrol – finding a little Arab Muslim girl who had been bashed to within an inch of her life by her own people and dumped (in a wadi somewhere? ) like a dead cat. The part of the story the writer doesn’t give, but which I can easily deduce, from everything *I* know about Jews and Judaism and the state of Israel [see, Haiti...], is the bit where the boy and his buddy, or most likely, Jewish army medics the horrified lads have frantically summoned, scoop up the wretched little scrap and take her off to an Israeli hospital to try to save her life…
Arab culture is a totally failed concept.
Obama blames the beatings on Bush. Go figure.
It’s not just the Lancet. Other British journals are no better. The British Medical Journal has been publishing vile anti-Israel material for years, they even flirted with an academic boycott of Israel a couple of years ago. I’m ashamed to say I have reviewed material for the Lancet. Never Again!
Jew hating has some parallels with other hates, like environmentalists hating capitalism. The hating will go on on unchecked until, one day, the hating itself damages the haters. Anti capitalist hating by the global warming religion finally overreached to produce climategate. Suddenly credibility was gone resulting in massive and continuing damage to the haters.
Until Jew hating severely damages the haters in some way, it will continue to grow. Surely one day, some kind of overreach will ruin its credibility. Pray that the overreach isn’t some horrific repeat of Jewish history.
That’s so odd, because this study suggests Palestinian men believe its their God-given right to beat women:
http://www.zoa.org/sitedocuments/pressrelease_view.asp?pressreleaseID=581
Who knew it was really those sneaky joos?
This is only surpassed (is that the right word?) by a study a few years ago which came to the conclusion that because Israeli soldiers didn’t “rape” it was evidence of their “racism!”
#9 a PHD.
Did you consider Islam at all as part of the problem? If not, please let me know why.
Thank you.
51. Harriet:
“…and there lies the rub. Lancet is one of the most widely read and respected medical journals in the world. This will not hurt them …”
The rub is: you forgot the internet. How long ago was it when the NYT was the paper of record? Now it belongs to a Mexican billionaire. To paraphrase someone: may be not today, may be not tomorrow, but people will catch on. Or, you can fool all people some of the time, some people all of the time, but not all people all of the time… Sorry to see Lancet go because they are infected with slimy idealogues.
Won’t it be funny if one of these days, the only scientific publications we could trust were from China?
The trick, some errors in my post above, is simple. Find a subpopulation ‘exposed to violence’. Define that however you want the study to come out. Now do cluster sampling; A study without controls except internal statistical ones. Then correlate that with domestic violence vs. those who have been involved in more violent situations in general.
You will get great numbers.
You have proven that A = A , if A = tendancy to be around or participate in violence.
You can do that anywhere and get the same results.
This is pure politics.
Spindok
I think British hatred of the Jews goes back to when Israel was fighting for independence back in 48.’ The bombing of the King David Hotel and other events tipped the scales. If that is the case they need to get over it. Siding with the Arabs is a joke.
The problem with the British is they have a severe superiority complex. Once upon a time the British Empire was the biggest in the world, so was there Navy etc. After WWII, their power and influence in the world was Dwarfed by the U.S. and they don’t like us and are envious of us. The future Israelis kind of kicked there butt, so to speak, when fighting for there independence so the Brits don’t like them either. The British try and stick it to us any chance they get. Same goes for Israel.
Sorry for the type-os: their not there
31. carla: “There will always be an England. Probably functioning under sharia law. Soon to be the capital of Euroabia.”
That’s what they get for colonizing the “wogs” for so many years. What went around has come around.
54. Calvin Ball: “Dr. Chessler, I hope you can see the obvious connection between this and Climategate.”
There’s stupid … and then there’s PJM stupid.
I can only go by the abstract, unfortunately. But based on that (and I admit that it’s a small sample) I think the objections are a bit overstated.
It might be inconvenient for israel for people to keep pointing out that their relationship (among others, obviously) with palestine has effects. Tough. Don’t like it? Solve the problem. Embarrassment is sometimes the only way that some problems get attention.
Showing a correlation between direct exposure to political violence and domestic violence obviously isn’t the same as blaming israel for ALL domestic violence. Lancet might well have a political objective in publishing this article – but that’s also just tough luck. Fight back – propose how YOU think the palestine situation should be resolved (assuming you think it should). Or go do some research and prove the political violence has no effect on domestic life (good luck – I would have though this was a no-brainer, myself).
And it’s not clear from the abstract exactly what the writers mean by “exposure to political violence” anyway. Does that necessarily mean “being harmed by israelis?” Or can it also mean “being harmed by hamas” or even “choosing to cause harm to others”? Can anyone who’s read the thing clarify?
And the endless attempts to equate criticism of israel’s policies with hatred of jews is just tedious. Russia’s foreign policy is usually cretinous – I don’t hate russians. America is responsible for some stupid overseas actions, but I don’t hate americans. China is becoming increasingly obnoxious, but I don’t hate the chinese people (although the aggressive nationalist sort get up my nose a bit). There’s nothing special about israel – I’m free to criticize it if I want to.
I don’t think it matters even if it is true that Palestinian men are more abusive to their “womenfolk” when they are “directly” involved with political conflicts.
Obviously, it is only a testament to their own character, and possibly to the repercussions of war. I mean, this study seems so silly. What do they expect as a resolution? …Hey, Israel, give in to us so we will stop beating our wives.
I have often wandered why the Lancet has not changed its name.
It was a dumb doctor using a Lancet that shorten George Washington’s live, by bleeding him several times, when today he would have been diagnosed, among other things, of having anemia.
So, the Lancet, the primary tool for bleeding a patient, is the symbol of whatever was obscure and retrograde with Western medicine not long ago.
So, I propose that it is time the Lancet changes its name to the Scimitar, the symbolic weapon in the Middle East.
Dr. Chesler,
At least one good thing has come from “Lancet’s” betrayal of science for propaganda, you have written in plain and clear terms a condemnation of Islam’s practices toward women. Your condemnation of Islam will stand for centuries or, at least, until that most heartless and oppressive religion reforms itself. As for we Americans, let us learn from your writing that we must make every effort to protect ourselves from incursions by this monster and its hatred for women.
#26 JFM writes:
“Actually Muhammad wrote nothing since Kuran was written at least 20 years after his death.”
How interesting. Western scholars of Islam write that the Qur’an was dictated by Gabriel to Muhammad. And that is what they teach in all the undergraduate level college courses. I guess Westerners are just hopelessly naieve.
“The Lancet” has lost so much credibility from it’s political axe-grinding that this is not really a surprise.
#50 ghenkis writes:
“The Jews should stage an exodus, taking with them their assets and what little culture remains on the continent. Let Eurabia fester in its own pus.”
Yes, and the USA should offer citizenship to any religious Jew who wants to come here. The Muslims couldn’t be any angrier anyway. For those who find my comments puzzling, permit me to explain that life in the USA offers abundant evidence that religious Jews are about as harmless as folks get. Muslims, on the other hand, seem to be born “in your face,” whether jihadis or not. Oh, and non-religious Jews? Well, Woody Allen defends child molestors because he thinks they once made a good movie or two.
This is absolutely detestable! Can anyone imagine Nature — the preeminent medical journal of the USA publishing such blatant propaganda!? It’s “prattle” pure and simple.
The UK is *truly* descending into an entirely anti-Israeli country now.
What worries me, and I’ve been following the ups and downs of Israel’s image in the world for 2+ decades, is that Israel *is* really on a downside in terms of her image in *all* of Europe. Unless we can get an American president in office who serves as a bulwark against this trend, I am for the first time in my life worried about the potential ramifications of the utter isolation Israel could experience in the West (minus the USA).
This could lead to a Palestinian unilateral declaration of “independence” which would be a catastrophe.
I hope Israel attacks Iran not *only* for the deterrence of her nucelar arms but for the widespread disruption in this horrible downslide Israel is experiencing (see for example Tzipi Livni’s arrest warrant in the UK). An all out war may actually do Israel some good as clearly the West Bank would be equally affected by Iranian missiles. Further, no-one would deny Israel from attacking harshly Hexbollah when Iran givers it the green light to “open up” on Israel and fire missilies into el Aviv. All the US public neds to see is pictyures of missiles falling into Tel Aviv to wing into support of Israel.
As worried as I am about the Europeans, they are clearly in a situation where they are loosing power daily due in part to their suicidal reproduction rate as well as their massive importation and kowtowing to Islamic *radicals*.
The next 2 years will be, as the Chinese say “interesting times.”
But this Lancet article is beyond the pale. It’s a historical marker in the decline of the UK.
Roger. You need new trolls. These ones are really, really lame.
Matthew @ #70: Several thoughts – Israel tried its best to allow Arabs in Judea and Samaria to live autonomously from Israel – remember Oslo, or have you forgotten already? What did Israel get in return for Oslo? Suicide bombers. Regretfully, the PA insists on inculcating the Arabs under its control with hatred and unreachable goals (the destruction of Israel and the expulsion or annihilation of the Jews). The PA does not accept the two-state solution. It wants one state, one that is Judenrein. In that circumstance, no matter what Israel does (except disappear) it is not enough. The Arabs under PA control will never reciprocate except with violence.
Also, others have pointed out here just how skewed the Lancet piece was. Like AGW, the authors twisted whatever facts they had (or invented) so the implications of those fact fit their preconceived notions.
Regretfully again, Moslem culture/religion thrives on supposed victimhood as it goes around blowing up everything in sight. Indeed it is not a culture/religion that we in the West can recognize. It is a political ideology pretending to be a culture/religion.
Dog gone it Dr. Chesler. Now I have to go buy a copy of Lancet. I’ll then have to go to the pet store, buy a bird, a bird-cage, bird seed, a water bottle, a cuttle-fish bone and a bird cage stand. Then I have to set it up, cut out the appropriate pages out of Lancet and line the bottom of the birdcage. Just because of those yahoo’s. All in these tough economic times.
The Islamic culture is a pathetic self-pitying culture which takes responsibility for nothing and blames Israel and the Jews ( now America) for all of their failures since the inception of this vile doctrine..
Let’s ask very directly: who should Israel belong to? What kind of Politics should Israel be ruled by? Exactely, which kind of Situation will “give an End” to Islamic/-ist Violence toward Women, Children (see “Children of Hamas”), and Others?
Isn’t it that the Solution sounds like “Israel must be (another) Islamic/-ist State, ruled by Shari’a Law, and don’t try and criticize that, otherwise you’ll be interationally charged for Defamation of Religion”?
After that, might we hope (be rassured) that Saudi Arabia (just to mention one) will TURN INTO an Heaven for Women/Females?
And that, why not, the whole Concept of Islamic Heaven [*] will TURN INTO something ethical (which now completely isn’t), Women-friendly, Sexual-obsessed-free (which means: it won’t be the Projection of Sadists and Rapers anymore?), and virtous (at the Moment it encourages Vices, like Laziness).
[*] This is the Ideal (Goal to be achieved) which occupies Islamic/-ist people’s Minds: it has not to be undervalued, while valuing the whole Islamic “Religion” (or Islamist Ideology).
The world is headed towards another world war! I bet this next one will surpass the previous ones for sheer ugliness. But, it too, will not be the last.
Matthew said:
There’s nothing special about israel – I’m free to criticize it if I want to.
Tell us how many times you have criticized Sudan for killing about one hundred times more people than Israel and unlike for Israel the victims of Sudan had no genocidal plans.
Tell us how many times you have criticized Saudi Arabia for, unlike Israel, indiscriminate bombing and in addition, unlike Israel, without giving warning and without having had its civilian population subject to thousands of missiles.
Tell us how many times you have criticized Saudi Arabia, Lybia or Jordan for expelling the Palestinians, denying them nationality or (Jordan)
revoking it from them along with denying them mostt/all jobs.
Tell us how many times have you criticized the Palestinians for spending our money on missiles instead of on building a functional society, for educating their children since they are three years old for suicide bombing and genocide, how many times for attempting to blow a maternity or for dancing in the streets when one of their hearoes crushed the skill of a four years old girl.
Tell us how much time you have devoted to other causes except the one of those who want to finish Hitler’s work.
Now there is nothing special about you and I am perfectly free to tell that you are a Nazi and one who is too coward and hypocrite to wear the swastika.
The Qur’an gives Muslim men instruction on how to discipline their wives. Beating is halal (or permitted). Wherever the Qur’an goes, wife beating follows. “Palestinian” “men” beat their wives because the prophet beat his and allowed his followers to beat theirs. It is not external factors, but the internal Muslim ethic that causes Muslim men to commit rape, honor killing and assault upon Muslimahs.
Jesus will come to his native land which ia an indepedent country today other people from another countries that is waiting for his coming will they go to Israel and see him or will he draw a diplomatic time table to visit them in their villages?….
if not can we think that if he arrive in Jerusalem that at the same time wil he be physical at our countries of origin may be we can concentrate our minds if he comes down to Nzareth a televsison can picture his photograph the way it can view magicians products and trasnmit it on videos who is not like us if clestial goods like radio and canned foods can be caught on cameras which is beamed live on televisions to other countries in respective of the location the magician voked the products,that means other not present in Jerusalem can see him on televisions across the continents.
My idealogy,pathos,logos and ethos states that if Jesus is preparing to come to his home town in other tribes and languages of the world persons or his allies will be preparing to come and vsist their people at their own places too as his representatives.
“This Lancet study is introduced by Rita Giacoman, a real feminist, who teaches at the Institute of Community and Public Health at Birzeit University …”
Surely by now people have realised, given the behaviour displayed by the Feminist community that the last thing they have worried about and fought against is the state that Muslim women find themselves in, in Arab countries and even in Europe and the US where honour killings and repression continue to be practiced.
“I also believe that war-related stress, including poverty, usually increases “intimate partner violence,” aka male domestic violence.”
This study confirms your preconceptions, yet it is flawed? I do not understand. The study merely confirmed what was found with several other populations. Are all these studies flawed? Or is this study flawed because it’s findings are similar to what was found with other populations, thereby suggesting that Palestinians are actually human?
Michelle Slon and Tomer Shechner, Tel Aviv University, Israel, “Psychiatric consequences for Israeli adolescents of protracted political violence: 1998–2004,” Journal of Child Psychology & Psychiatry; Mar2009, Vol. 50 Issue 3, p280-289
They’re blaming psychological problems of Israeli children on Palestinians! The study is flawed! The data was collected by Israelis, and was funded by an Israeli University! The study is flawed! The Journal of Child Psychology & Psychiatry no longer bears any relationship to the first-rate scientific journal it once was!
“This United States-based study of male immigrants (of largely Caribbean or Cape Verdean origin) attending urban [community health centers] indicates a significant relation between premigration political violence exposure and past-year [intimate partner violence] perpetration: men reporting exposure to political violence in their country of origin were over twice as likely to report [intimate partner violence] perpetration against a female partner in the past 12 months.”
Gupta, et al, “Premigration Exposure to Political Violence and Perpetration of Intimate Partner Violence Among Immigrant Men in Boston,” American Journal of Public Health, Mar2009, Vol. 99 Issue 3, p462-469
Intimate partner violence might be related to exposure to political violence if you are talking about Christians, but this is certainly not the case with Muslims! They’re evil!
This study confirms your preconceptions, yet it is flawed? I do not understand. The study merely confirmed what was found with several other populations.
Which ones? I don’t remember the British reacting to the Blitz by beating their wives, neither the Jews in Palestine during the pogroms in 192x, 193x or the inhabitants of Sderot when they were running to the refuge at 3am, children in arms.
Couldn’t Palestinian domestic violence be related for one part to change in the structure of Palestinian population (the ethnic cleansing of Palestinian christians), to the rise of radical Islam or to the brainwashing they are subject to, since they are three years old, aimed at nurturing genocidal hate in them and whose secondary effect is lowering moral barriers?
Not to mention that the sources of the study make it dubious at best, that even with honest investigators collecting stats about domestic violence is very difficult (classic problem: Does an increase in registered cases reflect a real increease or women who talk moe about it?) and that when looking for explanations we are deep in the realm of soft-science.
89. I fear you did not get Chesler’s Point: she is probably saying that wherever there is Domestic Violence, it is rather Male Domestic Violence –
why don’t War-stress, Poverty, Whatever, doesn’t turn Women into Beating or Killing Domestic Machines?
Most probably because the Problem related to (Domestic) Violence is rather a Problem related to masculine Mentality not to Poverty or Whatever else.
In the Case of Islam (Islamo-palestine) then, Things get harsher, because Islam institutionalizes Women’s Inferiority and Wife’s Beating, if not even Honor/Horror Crimes (against Family’s feminine Members).
In Gaza there is the Moral Police, institutionalized by Hamas, the ruling (Islamic/-ist) Party – the same one finds in Saudi Arabia.
The Fact is that Women are still submitted, and within the Islamic World, they are still institutionally submitted –
that’s Shari’a, not Israel (or the West)!
Dave742 makes some fine points, but even if we assume that the Palestinian data are correct (which there is no reason to do given that data coming out of unfree societies are always suspect and especially given the fact that Palestinian government officials lied brazenly about there being a “massacre” in Jenin), it’s wrong to assume that the study was written in good faith because it completely ignores the broader social context in which the increase in domestic violence took place. If it’s worth mentioning that there are hundreds of thousands of settlers in the West Bank, which the study’s authors do for no relevant reason, isn’t it also worth mentioning that Palestinian culture is a pathologically misogynistic one which systematically oppresses women?
But I would go further and suggest that the methodology of the study itself is flawed. It isn’t just by accident that some Palestinians are subjected to more political violence than others. It’s no accident, for example, that the IDF conducts far more operations in Jenin than in Jericho. The reason is that Jenin has become a hotbed of ideological extremism. If domestic violence increased in Jenin, isn’t it possible that it did so because of an increase in ideological extremism there?
Lancet… has been completely Palestinianized. It no longer bears any relationship to the first-rate scientific journal it once was.
The Lancet slide into rabid politicization was evident in 2006 under its editor-in-chief, Dr. Richard Horton, who brazenly endorsed (& reproduced in the journal) the study that grossly exaggerated the numbers of Iraqi civilian deaths.
With its clear political agenda and willingness to print lies on the basis of that agenda, it’s tough to see how the Lancet could be called a “respected medical journal”.
People who make studies such as this one are so obviously agenda driven that their conclusions must be seen as ludicrous.
It goes without saying that men in the Arab/Muslim culture have a certain license to be violent towards women, whether they’re Palestinian, with Israel as a neighbor, or anywhere else.
My own “study” of women in Palestine (especially Gaza) is that some of them appear to be completely taken in by the jihadist agenda and say (at least) that they are willing to offer up all their sons to the service of Allah.
It’s tough to imagine how any mother under any circumstances could hold such a view.
Other women seem intimated into silence, rightfully so if some guy in a green headband holding an AK-47 is standing outside the voting place “insuring” that their vote is pro-Hamas and so on.
(I chanced to see this in above comments, I’ve read that the Koran was committed to paper some 150-200 years after Mohammed’s death. Thus, it’s likely that a lot of Angel Gabriel’s whisperings may have been, uh, lost in translation
)
JFM:
“Which ones?”
They are listed in the article. Read.
“I don’t remember the British reacting to the Blitz by beating their wives…”
I don’t think “soft science” studies were very popular back then.
“Not to mention that the sources of the study make it dubious at best”
Of course. You can’t believe brown people.
“Does an increase in registered cases reflect a real increease or women who talk moe about it?”
This is irrelevant to the study being discussed here.
“and that when looking for explanations we are deep in the realm of soft-science.”
The person who wonders if a correlation exists between IPV and “the rise of radical Islam or to the brainwashing they are subject to, since they are three years old, aimed at nurturing genocidal hate in them and whose secondary effect is lowering moral barriers” is questioning the “soft science” of the Social Sciences. It’s so entertaining to post on right-wing blogs.
EDITED DOWN, TOO LONG, AND YOU’VE HAD ENOUGH FUN HERE FOR ONE DAY
Who is this tanstaafl interloper in #86, “tanstaafl JW”?
Are monikers in such short supply that you can’t get another one ?
Mohammed wouldn’t dare have beaten his first wife and financial benefactress, Kadija, who was 15 years older than he.
He may have taken to “light beating about the face” after he acquired all the other wives, following Kadija’s death.
Practices that evolved over the ensuing 14 centuries, however, don’t seem at all justified based on Koranic passages, just as “covering” seems to have morphed into outrageous garb like the burkha. Mohammed seemed mainly concerned that his women have their hair covered so as not to look appealing to his enemies.
My most recent post was shortened due to length. BUT YOU HAVE POSTED THREE TIMES TODAY ON THE SAME SUBJECT AND AT LENGTH. The post that was edited was 498 words before it was shortened. There is a post by “Dr McCosker” above that was 598 words that was not shortened. Why is 498 words too long, and 598 words is not? Could you please consider posting the following?: DR. MCCOSKER ONLY POSTED ONCE.
HellenoChristian:
“why don’t War-stress, Poverty, Whatever, doesn’t turn Women into Beating or Killing Domestic Machines?”
Is there a study showing that violence among women is not affected by political violence? If so, I have not seen it. My wife is currently studying the dramatic rise of violence among women, but not in relation to political violence. Let me know if you have any refs.
“Most probably because the Problem related to (Domestic) Violence is rather a Problem related to masculine Mentality not to Poverty or Whatever else.”
Sometimes it is better to read than to rely on popular beliefs. Corbally talks about how “traditional conceptualisations of intimate partner abuse were almost always constituted as something which females experienced at the hands of men,” and how this traditional view needs to be rethought: “According to the British Crime Survey, 18% of men had experienced one or more incidents of intimate partner abuse since the age of 16, with 5% (translating to one in 20 men) experiencing abuse in the last year. Other measures of intimate partner abuse, which define abuse at the level of an individual action, have found even higher rates of victimization amongst men.”
Corbally, Melissa. “Domestic violence – time for a rethink?” Journal of Clinical Nursing, Feb 2010, Vol. 19 Issue 3/4, p301-302
REALLY ENOUGH FUN FOR YOU FOR ONE DAY AT A “RIGHT WING SITE.” YOU ARE MERELY CITING OTHER STUDIES THAT PEOPLE MAY NOT BE ABLE TO EASILY FIND.
Dave 77 said
Of course. You can’t believe brown people.
Oh, look what we have here! A paladin of antiracism in shining armor. Complete with horse. Strange that he doesn’t show similar concern about Blacks in Darfur. Could it be that they are just ni–rs to him?
But now the reason not to trust a study sponsored by a Palestinian institution is a 61 years old and counting uninterrupted trail of lies from Der Yassin to Pallywood passing by Al Dura and by the “bullets fored at my house” who were in fact unfired cartidges. Even the Pravda has a better record at telling the truth.
Muslims hold the honor of their women in such high regard.
It is so heart warming.
I read a story recently about a Christian man in Egypt who was beaten and stabbed to death for simply visiting a muslim brothel.
http://nacopts1.blogspot.com/2009/11/egyptian-christian-man-attacked-by-mob.html
Google for more links
It’s not an honor thing – It’s a power thing.
And it’s sick.
Had a quick look at the study. Yes, it’s basically junk. Not science at all. First, it is all self-reported. No independent fact verification. Second, there is no causality. The ‘event’ could have happened after the wife beating. Third, even if there was a relationship, the authors do not consider that maybe, the relationship is reversed i.e. the wife beaters also tend to be involved in situations where they would be exposed to sanctions from security forces. i.e. maybe, just maybe, those exposed to ‘incidents’ are not random but are basically thugs.
The fact that Lancet published this crap is a horrible reflection on the journal. It diminishes the worthy stuff that may have been published in it.
DD
The award for the shocking lack of insight goes to :
67. Fortunate Son
‘ Siding with the Arabs is a joke.’
Not all ‘arabs’ are terrorist.
The political and financial support given by American’s to the I.R.A terrorists killing British and Irish citizens was not amusing either.
‘The problem with the British is they have a severe superiority complex.’
That comment has made me spit my tea out.
Is this coming from a country that believes it is the greatest /number one.
Exceptional people blessed by God,the beacon
,that sounds like a belief of superiority.
‘The British try and stick it to us any chance they get’
We supported you following 9/11.
Invaded Iraq with you and are losing soldier’s in Afghanistan.
What did we try to ‘stick’ on you any chance we got?
‘they don’t like us and are envious of us.’
What do you think we are envious of?
You are a divided country who hates eachother.
.
Dave 7fortoot
Its good to see you doing your thing again. You made a good point, why do have to put down somebody else’s points. Can’t you counter them academically?
Folks please don’t feed this myopic troll.
#67 Fortunate Son
British anti-Semitism didn’t start in WWII. The British sided with the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem way before that. It was due to his influence that the British limited Jewish emigration to then Palestine in the 1920′s. However, they didn’t limit moslem emigration to the same region. During WWII the British sank two ship loads of Jewish emigrants from Europe. They escaped the holocaust only to drown at British hands. The Mufti gladly repaid the British by forming an Arab division which fought for the Reich. He also instigated riots in Palestine and Iraq aimed at crippling the British war effort there. Still the British were loyal to their friend the Mufti and they still are to his kin. If you want to see the real source of British anti-Semitism, look at the Anglican church. It never changed its dogma after its schism with Catholicism. The recent Pope acknowledged the church’s wrong doing. Nobody from Canterbury has ever done that. Instead the Medieval dogma is still heathy and practiced today by the Anglican church.
Oscar: The division you mentioned was not Arab, but an SS division comprised of Bosnian Muslims, the 13th Waffen Divisionen Hanjar.
http://www.srpska-mreza.com/library/facts/hanjar-book.html
They were as bad as the corps under Dr. Oskar Dirlewanger, better known as the Dirlewanger Brigade, originally comprised of pardoned poachers.
Is this coming from a country that believes it is the greatest /number one. Exceptional people blessed by God,the beacon, that sounds like a belief of superiority.
I would tella that people who didn’t perpetrate the monumental acts of stupidity called Somme and Paschendaele, who didn’t manage to be defeated by Zulus armed with spears, who didn’t flee in front of Volskwagens disguised as tanks, who didn’t need five years to design a half decent tank, who didn’t build aircraft carriers only to put biplanes and Skuas on them, who didn’t t surrender en masse at Singapore to a Japanese force a third their size and last but not east created real democracy instead of the parody you have in UK and a society where men don’t kow tow in front of a prince Charles then I would tell that Americans have the right to feel superior to the British
Whatever one thinks about Muslims, Jews, Christians, Israel, Palestinians, history and politics relating thereto, these are not medical science issues.
The Lancet was a medical scientific journal. It still pretends to that. In the ‘biz it is well known that it suffers from journalism and political goals over basic science.
They have made so many screw ups in the past few decades (please do not make me enumurate them) some of which, ie. the MMR scare, have resulted in negative consequence to public health such that the peer reviews and general direction of this tabloid ‘journal’ are suspect.
Clinicians do not need that but is makes great internet fodder. My own post here adds to the ‘success’ of the editors ‘wow, look how many hits we got – what a great article’.
That does not mean that solid medical research does not get published in the Lancet. It means that a raised eyebrow occurs when the citation is from them.
It is a last choice and people who just want to know the latest on the best drug for breast cancer, or the best screening strategy for prostate cancer can no longer rely on the objectivity of the publication.
What scientific question was asked by this investigation? What was learned from the data? How well did the authors support or refute something helpful to medical clinicians?
It is no longer a medical journal of serious reputation. Internet political news-feed fodder and little more.
Basic medical ethics have been shunted aside here. Any medic knows that when the patient is in front of you all of this political/religious crap needs to go away.
Give me something I can use. Psychology and emotional trauma are certainly central in many cases. Yet this article stinks of politics. The authors did not ask key unanswered questions. They set out to ‘prove’ a political agenda and got it done by abuse of the white coat.
This is neither medicine nor science.
Spindok
BTW, did any of these “researchers” note that the “occupation” ended years ago?
99. Dave 742
You can help your Wife:
let’s compare Women’s Justification(s) for their Acts of Violence toward Men,
and those of Men for their Acts of Violence toward Men.
Cultural Justification include: heavenly ordered Wife’s Beating in Case of Unsubmission to the Man – related to that Law’s Principle which states “a Woman is Worth a Half of a Man”.
Political Justification include: Killing of Dissidents.
Emotional Justification include: gotten Education, Reactions of Abuses suffered during Childhood, Biological/Structural Diseases – Autism included -, ….
***
What I notice is that Islamic/-ist people seem always to have a Justification for their Acts of Violence against (Women, Children and) Others. A Pakistani Acid attacked Girl said that “when people see an abused Woman, they just think “she must have done Something to deserve it. Period.”.
They can even publically preach Hate toward Others (see MEMRI or United Kingdom), and they always have a Justification for that. While (Critics of Islam and) Others cannot even open their Mouth against Islam, without being harshly Death-threatened (Violence).
Even their very Prophet Muhammad is justified for all the Slaughtering he did, and even for re-introducing Stoning (which was already abolished), and for introducing Female Genital Mutilation.
IN THE WEST THERE IS NOT JUSTIFICATION for both psychological and phisical Violence (War excluded) – Psychology might help to understand why one acted violently (within the Couple);
in Case Lancet’s Report says Something Right, then I want the Stress/the Violence/the Agressivity caused by Islam/-ism in the World to be analyzed –
first of all let’s analyze Islamic/-ist Law against Apostates (or Critics of Islam), which is very stressful.
Plain and simple, bad research.
Where’s the control group? Put the stats up against moslems like Egypt/Jordan where there’s no war going on.
And put up the stats against non-Moslems in wartime situations.
I think you’ll see that it has more to do with Islam than with war.
Sir,
The most obvious and glaring failure of this purported research is the lack of a control group. The only way to establish a connection between occupation and domestic violence is to find out if domestic violence among Arabs living, say, in Syria, Jordan and Saudia Arabia is sugnificantly lower than in the West Bank. And even then one would have to control for differences in income, health and a host of other variables.
99. Let’s compare Women’s Violence toward Men and Men’s Violence toward WOMEN.
One of the most important components of any respectable medical study requires comparison to similar studies so that the statistics can be meaningfully understood correlated. There is none of this is the paper published in The Lancet, so by definition the “findings” are meaningless.
Tanstaafl said:
“He may have taken to “light beating about the face” after he acquired all the other wives, following Kadija’s death.
Practices that evolved over the ensuing 14 centuries, however, don’t seem at all justified based on Koranic passages, just as “covering” seems to have morphed into outrageous garb like the burkha.
Q 4:34: “Men are the maintainers of women .. . and from those of your women from whom you fear rebellion . . beat them . . ”
Muslim men are charged with the “maintainance” of islamic norms when it comes to women, which means, basically, they are charged with beating those women who defy or threaten islamic norms. It’s not a recent innovation, it’s the bedrock of islamic culture. Why do you think the first thing an islamic government does upon taking power is to create “morality police” whose main function is the harassment of women?
http://islamizationwatch.blogspot.com/2010/01/aceh-sharia-police-arrested-for-gang.html
MiamiMan
The Mufti was still involved in their recruitment. He played an active role in their existence.
Moderator: Can I please ask why I have been banned? What guideline did I violate?
The Lancet is Britain’s premier medical journal because it relies on balanced, empirical and peer reviewed science.
By contrast, the content on this site amounts to poorly researched assertions, word-of-mouth conspiracy theories and blatant ethnocentric bias.
While there is no permanent physical Israeli presence in Gaza, given the significant control that Israel has over Gaza’s borders, airspace and territorial waters, Israel retains obligations under the Fourth Geneva Convention as an occupying power. The Fourth Geneva Convention is clear that an occupying power must co-operate in allowing the passage and distribution of relief consignments.
The restrictions currently imposed on the passage of relief supplies are a disproportionate response to the security threat, and clearly constitutes ‘collective punishment’, a very serious war crime here in the real world.
Dr Chesler, will you ever accept that legitimate criticism of Israeli aggression towards the powerless Palestinians is a duty of all civilized people, and is not “nearly inseparable from anti-Semitism”?
Methinks not, madam! For those mired in ethnocentrism (in the West) are as blinded by their faith as those stereotypical extremists (in the East) whom we all despise…
“. . .Perhaps the best psychological explanation comes from United in Hate: The Left’s Romance with Tyranny and Terror, the recent book by Jamie Glazov, the managing editor of FrontPage Magazine.
In a chapter entitled “To Hate a Woman”, he describes in chilling detail the oppression of women in parts of the Muslim world and the “theological justification” for violence against females “from the very moment of their birth”.
Islamist hatred of women has “fertilised the soil in which … terrorism and the new death cult have grown”.
He claims there is an “Islamist war on private love [which] derives most of its energy from a deep-seated misogyny. Women’s empowerment, independence and self-determination, especially the sexual variety, pose a threat to Islamism’s very existence.”
Islamist misogyny, he claims, comes from Islam itself. “The notion that women are by their very nature inferior to men is the underpinning of the entire structure and derives its legitimacy from numerous traditional teachings.”
It is no coincidence that the Arabic word “fitna” has two meanings – beautiful woman and social chaos.
Glazov writes that in many Islamic societies, “women are supposed to dehumanise themselves in order to be tolerated … Women are considered to be the incarnation of shahwa [desire] which comes from the devil. In this environment the pathological notion arises that a man and a woman cannot be alone without the ominous threat of evil in their midst.
EDITED DOWN, TOO LONG FOR ONE POST, WHY NOT JUST LINK TO DR. GLAZOV’S BOOK?
to 90, dave742
Obviously, you haven’t read the Israeli article. You could hardly choose a worse example to prove your point.
Hellenochristian:
“Let’s compare Women’s Violence toward Men and Men’s Violence toward WOMEN.”
“According to the latest research, most domestic violence is mutual, men and women emotionally abuse and control one another at approximately equal rates, intimate terrorists are equally likely to be male or female, men suffer one-third of physical
injuries, and males and females are equally affected by emotional abuse. In short,
domestic violence is a human and relational problem, not a gender problem.”
John Hamel, “Toward a Gender-Inclusive Conception of Intimate Partner Violence Research and Theory: Part 2 — New Directions.” Journal of Men’s Health , Spring 2009, Vol. 8 Issue 1, p 41-59,
j:
“Obviously, you haven’t read the Israeli article. You could hardly choose a worse example to prove your point.”
Yes, I read it. My point was that countless articles have been written showing that exposure to violence, including political violence, is related to all types of psychological outcomes. The article I cited correlates exposure to political violence to hostility, among other things. Many articles show that exposure to political violence correlates to increased incidence of IPV. With respect to the article I cited, I do not discount the findings because they were made in Israel on Israelis, because I am a rational person. To discount the findings of the Lancet study because the findings were made on Palestinians, especially when the exact same findings were made in other populations, is completely irrational. That is my point.
118. Oscar the Grump:
[MiamiMan
The Mufti was still involved in their recruitment. He played an active role in their existence.]
Yes, yes, of course, that link also takes you to a pic where the Mufti is inspecting the SS troops.
My only correction was that they were Bosnian Muslims and not Arabs.
Nearly nothing coming out of the UK academic establishment has any credibility anymore.
Beyond which, the UK elites seem to have lost all sense and decency when it comes to Israel and the Jews in general.
I keep hoping for the day when the British people take their country back — not that they were ever particular friends of the Jews, but at least they were normal, honest people with a sense of decency.
But for the most part, I am just disappointed a bit more every week.
=====
The worst of the bad news is that England has nukes. And that’s just a couple of hours from DC as the missile flies.
If they go all the way into becoming a colony of the mohammedan cultures, we in the US will have to give serious consideration to training our own nukes on London.
Not something that will comport well with our traditions or sentiments.
But hostile mohammedans with nukes within a 2 hour missile shot at Wash DC or NY? Not a good idea.
It never ends.
123. Are you denying CULTURAL Violence against Women, by Men? Are you denying the a whole patriarchal and chauvinist Structure, which affected our Western Society in the Past, and which still affecting (without a Way out) the Islamic/-ist World (remeber Shair’a states the “legal” Inferiority of Women)?
***
Might we know more about “the Increasing/Decreasing” of – for Instance – Jewish Violence against Women, during – for Instance – hitlerian (real) Persecution? Or after those Islamic/-ist Hate-Speeches against Jews (to be found on MEMRI.tv)?
And that of Africans, during Slavery (a real Persecution against them)?
And that of (Hindu) Indians, at the Time of (real) Invasion and Colonialism?
And that of Tibetans during (real) Persecution and Genocide by the Red Chinese Army?
(You’re free to add more Examples).
—
Why does Women’s Condition improve? Because they belong to the “Oppressors” (real or alleged) or because of the Existence of – so called – Feminist Movements?
Matthew said:
“Tell us how many times you have criticized Sudan for killing about one hundred times more people than Israel and unlike for Israel the victims of Sudan had no genocidal plans.”
Nobody’s exactly been asking. The government of sudan (and assorted violent nutjobs) have made the place a hell-hole – nobody’s saying otherwise. There’s no particular mileage in pointing out that the sky is blue – nobody is claiming otherwise. If pundits started suddenly claiming that the sky is really green and anyone who says otherwise is a nazi, then I think it would be worth responding to that. Yes, mugabe is a violent freak. Yes, west africa is screwed. I think we already agree on that.
“Tell us how many times you have criticized Saudi Arabia for, unlike Israel, indiscriminate bombing and in addition, unlike Israel, without giving warning and without having had its civilian population subject to thousands of missiles”
I have to admit I don’t know a great deal about SA’s domestic military actions. I basically regard saudi arabia as a misogynist kleptocracy run by a self-serving cult. And again – nobody is singing saudi arabia’s praises, so it’s moot.
“Tell us how many times you have criticized Saudi Arabia, Lybia or Jordan for expelling the Palestinians, denying them nationality or (Jordan) revoking it from them along with denying them mostt/all jobs”
That, I have most certainly done. My own (personal favorite) solution to the whole palestine problem is to buy off egypt and jordan and annex the two arab territories into those two countries – just move the borders of jordan and egypt to where the lines are right now. End the nonsense about independence – whatever comes from that will be a permanently failed state, dependent forever on outside security forces just to maintain internal sovereignty. Much better to just give people normal lives and ditch the ideology.
“Tell us how many times have you criticized the Palestinians for spending our money on missiles instead of on building a functional society, for educating their … years old girl.”
Yep. Done that. The palestinians have more than their fair share of twisted creeps. And they apparently have power.
“Tell us how much time you have devoted to other causes except the one of those who want to finish Hitler’s work”
Yeah, see, you seemed almost rational until you got to that bit. Like I said – I don’t have any problem criticizing any country’s policies. You can use the past to try to claim special status if you want to, and I’ll ignore it.
“Now there is nothing special about you and I am perfectly free to tell that you are a Nazi and one who is too coward and hypocrite to wear the swastika”
Yeah, right. And you need a broader vocabulary.
Who is to blame for Syria ?
http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art27334.asp
“The incidence of violence against women, in any culture, is hard to determine. Often, violence occurs within the family and remains a family secret. In 2005, UNIFEM sponsored a study on violence against women in Syria by looking at almost 2000 families from throughout Syria. The study did not attempt to report how many women had been victims of violence, but it did report that 67% of women had been punished in front of their family, and that in 87% of these cases, that punishment included beatings. 6% of husbands did not allow their wives to visit female friends and family members; this is particularly troubling because we know that in many cases keeping people from friends and family is part of the pattern of domestic abuse. The UNIFEM study seems to have distinguished between violence intended as discipline (which it called discipline) and violence for its own sake. 21.8% of women had experienced various types of violence not intended as discipline, including insult, beating, sexual harassment, robbery, assault, and kidnapping. Depending on the transgression, 50-80% of these acts were committed by family members! While family members defended the women in just over 70% of the cases of sexual harassment; in the majority of other transgressions, the women’s families blamed her, not the transgressor. Most chilling, in 55% of cases where men killed their wives for committing adultery, the family felt the woman was responsible”.
Historical perspectives are interesting on an academic level.
But as I clearly elucidate in my previous comment, Israel is CURRENTLY engaged in very serious crimes against humanity, and as a consequence, crimes against the World Jewry they claim to act on behalf of.
I don’t see how the internal politics of Saudi Arabia, Libya or Jordan (as reprehensible as they are) can be seen as comparable to such serious international crimes being perpetrated presently (not to mention Goldstone).
If Israel ever joins the United Nations Human Rights Council or signs the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, perhaps their moral standing in the world will improve.
Currently, it is clear to all that the self proclaimed ‘Jewish State’ does not represent the majority of those who subscribe to the great Judaic tradition, and appears more like an offshore US military base with a fancy biblical name.
Shalom.
To Tanstaafl – Mohammed beat Ayesha when she followed him after he slipped out of her bed one night. It is a hadith, but it is present in all four collections of hadiths.
Sorry, but I have been using “Tanstaafl” a long time at “Jihad Watch”/
(131) Lao Tzu wrote an interesting point:
He says “I don’t see how the internal politics of Saudi Arabia, Libya or Jordan (as reprehensible as they are) can be seen as comparable to such serious international crimes being perpetrated presently (not to mention Goldstone).”
I agree that they are not comparable.
The rest is simply your unsupported assertion that (x) is ‘internal politics’ and (y) is ‘serious international crimes’.
Your one citation should not be mentioned as per your request.
Further: “If Israel ever joins the United Nations Human Rights Council or signs the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, perhaps their moral standing in the world will improve.”
No. I think not. Improving moral standing in the world just gets you killed, or maybe your moral standing goes up the more you get sliced to bits in horrible ways. Not much history there to back me up.
Spin
To Ahad, #49. You got it right on the Un. of Minnesota. The whole state has become a mini-jihadist support place. Remember the “6 flying immans”, the separate footwash facilities, the Somali cab drivers, and Al Franken? This is test-central for “sharia law”, Islamic customs, and security testing at the airports.
Lots of bad things are going on in Minnesota, not even being looked into by the media, including possible electoral fraud in Franken’s election to the Senate. Coleman should have demanded a full recount with an impartial person, not the present Secretary of State. There is more to this story than has been told, and might never be told in time to prevent more of this leftist/Islamic onslaught against American values and traditions.
Oh, and the anti-semitism at UM? Comes with the “liberalism” and “PC-ness” that is running rampant in academia. Check out some of UM’s teachers, past and present.
131. May I know what do you mean for “Humanity”? Islamist Followers? Did you have a look to Hamas Chart, just to mention one? Is that human?
What about Christians of – so called – Palestine? Are they enjoying their – so to say – Humanity after Islamic/-ist OCCUPIED their Land?
What about the Rest of Humanity being oppressed by Islamic/-ist Invasion, which is happening since since VII. Century A.C.?
What about the Right of Jews to have a Country where to live in (Islamic/-ist people have many of them),
not to forget that Jews actually come from the Land they are now living in!
***
Let me know what do you think about “Cairo Declaration” or “Declaration of Universal Human Rights in Islam”, compared to “Declaration of Universal Human Rights” –
here is a very international/universal political Point to be addressed [note: Wife's Beating is Part of Shari'a; Inferiority of Women is Part of it, too].
Sorry, I posted this under “Terrorism Quiz”, but it belonged to this Thread: “from an Egytpian Household”
. The Maid (Women’s Mistreatment in Islam) http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/view/75474 ;
“Later on I found out that her husband had chronic depression and that her son was a drug addict. Over the course of the 5 years that I have known her, they were admitted to hospitals a zillion times and they relapsed all the time. I also found out that she worked double shifts; from 8 to 2 at my house and from 3 to 9 at another house – she cleaned homes 12 hours a day 7 days a week! Her eldest daughter was married to an electrician who “is a real man; he keeps her in order by a regular beating – yes, of course, he is a real man.” She has two other girls who have great expectations – just like the Dicken´s heroes. They are studying but “a girl should get married. You too should get married anesa Marwa or you will not go to heaven – the Sheikhs said that women go to heaven only when their husbands are happy.”"
. The Man (Genders’ social Rules) http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/view/75473 ;
“Dad walked back into the room and the “good girl” lesson began.
“Good girls who come from good homes do not do what I saw you doing. I am ashamed of you.” Said my dad
“Why? What did I do wrong?” I asked unknowingly
“You were talking to a man … in front of everyone … what will they say about you?” My dad explained
“He is my friend” I defended him
“There is no such thing as friendship between men and women … did he hold your hand? Did he try to kiss you? Did he put his hands on your knees?” The images were driving my dad crazier by the minute.”
. The Driver (Harrashment of Girls and Women) http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/view/75471
“The summer after, a guy felt me up in the pool … I said nothing. A few years later another guy groped me in the street … I still kept my mouth shut. In college a guy in a bus “did his thing” while looking at me … people did nothing and I pretended that I saw nothing. Most females were taught to avoid eye contact with their harasser, to keep their mouths shut when it is happening, and to stay quiet after it is over. In a shame society like ours put shame, honor, and guilt in one big bundle and tie it like a lead ball to the feet of any woman who has been harassed on the streets of Cairo. So here are the rules to dealing with sexual harassment: first, avoid it if you could, forget it if you would, and deny it if you should.”
Phyllis and HellenoChristian 93:
“I fear you did not get Chesler’s Point: she is probably saying that wherever there is Domestic Violence, it is rather Male Domestic Violence….. Most probably because the Problem related to (Domestic) Violence is rather a Problem related to masculine Mentality not to Poverty or Whatever else.”
Yes, this is the tilt of the article: it pretends that domestic violence by women against men and children does not exist at all when all of the stats, at least in America, show that women are just as prone to spousal and child abuse as men are. I wish you could see that this is nothing but pure prejudice against one half of the human race and no different than any other prejudice: stupid, backward and egocentric. The problem with the world is Sin and Falsehood, and Sin and Falsehood corrupt men and women equally. The answer is Love and Truth. Feminism is just a big lie and falls on the wrong side of the matter. Thus it gives rise to the greatest violence of modern times – worse than all of our wars combined – abortion. Where are the Fetusists I wonder? Who speaks for them?
The point of the article is valid, however: Israel is blamed for all of the Palestinians’ problems when in fact all of those problems originate in Islam.
JFM 109:
A fascinating anti-British slant has arisen on this thread but this one takes the cake! You do know the British once controlled 1/4 of the world’s land mass don’t you? Not a bad feat it seems to me. And their culture and religion has been of huge benefit to the world. Africa, to give one example, was much better off under British rule than it ever was before or since (they controlled 1/4 of it, too). They held off the Nazis and Japanese for years while the French played possum and we twiddled our thumbs. Ah, but they lost a few battles they shouldn’t have so…. they’re idiots? Allrightythen.
Lao Tzu’s Best Friend 131:
“If Israel ever joins the United Nations Human Rights Council… perhaps their moral standing in the world will improve.”
That would be the same council the Sudan was on while they were trying to genocide their Christian population in the south and west?! So in your view the Sudan was and now is of high moral standing? Because they’re on the council?! Maybe someone should have told the Nazis before they got their butts hanged – all they had to do was join the Human Rights Council! Carry on boys, you’re in good standing! You’re on the G–D— Council!
W O W.
The Lancet’s claim is not only untrue, it is also bad science. What faith can we have in what used to be the premier medical publication that accepts a slipshod article like Rita Giacoman’s? After reading this we can imagine how subjectively it will treat the research coming out of Israel – the country publishing the most academic articles per head of population and the country that is the most productive of new and ground-breaking medical software.