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by
Rick Moran

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February 9, 2014 - 3:31 pm
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A microcosm of the Republican civil war played out on Fox News Sunday when radio talk show host Laura Ingraham and columnist George Will went toe-to-toe over immigration reform.

Ingraham criticized the Wall Street Journal for calling out conservative talk radio for opposing reform:

“The Wall Street Journal attacked, in that editorial, talk radio and the people rising up against this, and John Boehner cowering,” Ingraham began. “As far as I can tell, the Wall Street Journal is on the side of Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer, Barack Obama, Pat Leahy and La Raza. Talk radio, for the most part, is on the side of, yes, Heritage, probably other Tea Party-type groups, most Republican senators and congressmen and I think the lion’s share of the American people.”

Will argued that the economy needed the influx of labor in order to grow:

“The welfare state NEEDS its workforce replenished,” he argued. “As the elderly retire, ten thousand baby boomers become eligible every day for Social Security and Medicare. Second, there’s an intense global competition for human capital, and we’re losing out on that. Third, to immigrate is to make an entrepreneurial act. It’s to uproot yourself and perhaps your family and take a risk, and those are the kinds of people –”

But Ingraham wasn’t buying it:

INGRAHAM: Do we care about American workers at all? And their jobs, and their wages and their dreams?

WILL: Laura, you’re the one who’s arguing the AFL-CIO argument, which is –

INGRAHAM: They’re for it!

WILL: No, but they’re for it with so many caveats they nullify it.

INGRAHAM: But why have borders?

WILL: You’re arguing the zero-sum game –

INGRAHAM: No.

WILL: When, in the lives of our children and grandchildren, there are 500 million Americans, they’re all going to be working! Because we’re gonna have economic dynamism, aided by immigration!

NGRAHAM: So the argument, though, leads to, ‘Why have borders at all?’ Why have a border if it’s just about people as widgets, who come in and are workers without really a concern about assimilation, without concern about how it affects people in middle America. I mean, a lot of people who are in favor of [immigration reform] don’t send their kids to public schools, are not affected by illegal immigration at all.

But I would submit that there are people who are watching this show right now who are screaming at the top of their lungs saying, ‘Who is Washington is representing my interests?’ The labor shortage argument that Paul Ryan is making, that we have an impending labor shortage — I think, transparently, it is ridiculous to most people, today. We don’t have participation in the workforce as it is!

WILL: It’s not a shortage. It’s growth we want!

And so on. In an economy where few jobs are being created, inviting the kind of immigration Will is talking about is madness. At the same time, in less than a decade, there is going to be a serious shortage of science, technology, engineering, and math (STEM) workers. Unless there’s a miraculous turnaround at the high school level in students interested in pursuing careers in STEM professions, those workers are going to have to come from overseas. And right now, the procedures to invite them and get them to come here legally are cumbersome and unnecessarily complicated.

An interesting discussion, revealing in its base disagreements that are part of the GOP civil war. Watch the video on the next page.

Top Rated Comments   
Border crashing is to STEM workers what Kool Aid is to rocket fuel.

The confusion comes when people call border crashing illegal "immigration".

Immigration is a controlled, selective, decision by the host country. Border crashing is an invasion of the host country.

And AMERICA needs 500 million citizens like India needs 5 billion citizens. Which is to say, they can't handle what they have now.

Wanting to be in America, not because you love what she stands for and you want to be a part of its glory...but because you want to treat her like an ATM, where you punch in you PIN number and extract cash, giving no patriotism, honor or glory to the nation...just a taker...who needs that? What can be built on that pile of shifting sands?

No, thanks. As a CITIZEN...call me nativist...but I would rather have people who want to BE a part of my country over people who want to TAKE a part of my country. But I'm funny that way.
10 weeks ago
10 weeks ago Link To Comment
The US economy need immigrants who come to work and can supply the skills that the workforce is lacking. To import a worker to force the locals to work for less is in my opinion a move against the American worker.

To bring anyone who is only interested in sucking the teat of the welfare system is unpatriotic and suicidal. No nation should import lazies or troublemakers.
10 weeks ago
10 weeks ago Link To Comment
In all this debate there is, to all intents and purposes no mention of the one victim virtually guaranteed to suffer due to a massive influx of "immigrants" (better referred to as "invaders" which is the term that reform opponents should properly use). And that is the culture.

In that entire 5 minutes plus of video, I heard the word "assimilation" just once, and that in passing. Without assimilation, even legal immigrants become invaders, and the culture fragments into tribes without a common core.

And even now, what incentive do today's invaders have to assimilate into the greater American nation? Government "services" are provided in foreign languages, agitating against the host country is dismissed with a nod and a wink, and the threat of removal is insignificant to the vanishing point. A free buffet is on offer, so why shouldn't they grab what they can and demand more?

It's rare in history to see a society ask to be conquered. But, apparently, it does happen.
10 weeks ago
10 weeks ago Link To Comment
All Comments   (60)
All Comments   (60)
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Here's your immigration reform: Box 'em up and ship 'em back.
There are no undocumented workers, they have documents back in their home country.
9 weeks ago
9 weeks ago Link To Comment
The country club Repubs that Will represents want cheap labor so they can cash in, and offload the costs onto those of us who are really living in the shadows, the U.S. taxpayers. They don't mind letting us picking up the tab for the crime, hospital bills, education costs, etc.

BIll Kristol learned his lesson when he was cheerleading for Bush's shamnesty. I'm sure I wasn't the only one who canceled my subscription to The Geekly Standard over that one.
9 weeks ago
9 weeks ago Link To Comment
We need to be like the Roman Empire - there are citizens, who have their set of rights, and there are others, with their diminished set of rights. If you want full rights, you gotta pull your weight, obey the frickin laws, and carry on. It's the second of those conditions that gives illegal immigrants that now-forbidden moniker.
9 weeks ago
9 weeks ago Link To Comment
Your taxes will be assigned to support illegal aliens when Amnesty is the law. If you don’t believe that surprise is buried in Obamacare, see
http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/stories/2012/october/11/health-care-immigrants.aspx
This is your money being given away. Please get out and VOTE in the Primary elections and in the 2014 November mid-term election.
9 weeks ago
9 weeks ago Link To Comment
Waxman & Schumer, two-peas-in-a pod! Waxman passes his baton to Schumer. Schumer lets “Cat-out-of-the-bag!” Immigration has “D” & “R” stamped all over it!!! Farmer's Bill was a "no-brainer!" And now Cantor has confirmed what We The People all know...THE FIX IS IN!!!
FOLKS, follow the money! Speaker Boehner, per Judicial Watch, is Washington DC’s most corrupt politician. WHY? One asks! Because his Nickname is “Toll Booth” Boehner. See, Mr. Boehner sees Congress as a “highway.” In order for any legislation, bill or committee proposal to see the light of day on Boehner’s “highway” a “toll” is exacted. Nobody knows how this is “scaled,” because it’s by necessity… “secret!”
Schumer wants what is already a reality. To get his crony pals re-elected in 2014! Period! POSTPONE IMPLEMENTATION UNTIL 2017!!! Of course, after the vote in late November 2014!
Knowing this, everybody has to recall both Senators McCain and Flake personally paying Mr. Boehner “a visit” late in 2013! Pictures of handshakes, arm twisting et al were widely published of this troika’s successful endeavor. Later, reports of donors having contributed to Mr. McCain’s coffers a sum total of $400,000 dollars was reported…some was given to Mr. Flake as well (one remembers Mr. Kyle’s timely retirement). All this on the heels of Senator Rubio’s now famous meeting (April 2013) with Congressional types: Grijalva (co-chair of Democratic Socialists of America) and Gutierrez (an avowed socialist) for hammering out this Immigration reform Bill. Of course, Mark Zuckerberg and all “too Big-to-Fail” were in on the FIX! Anybody see Coca-Cola’s Super Bowl ad? Proof positive of these closed door meetings. Farm Bill passes…more corporate welfare than Carter has Liver Pills. Immigration Reform Bill will pass in 4th quarter 2014…because all campaign donors have successfully been “lined-up.” too (to use football terminology). Fait Accompli!
GOP is as crooked as the day is long. Wake-up! Every lawmaker has to be carefully watched. Few, very few are honest…a large percentage are as crooked-as-the-day-is-long. Pray. Amen. Follow the money. God Bless America. Join a Tea Party, urgently and register to vote for conservative Tea Party candidates. Maybe, just maybe that's why 22 Republicans are quitting as are some 15 Democrats in both House and Senate.
9 weeks ago
9 weeks ago Link To Comment
While I agree more with Laura Ingram on immigration, the tone of the discussion is disturbing - posters saying that George Will is a stupid, scared liar, turncoat, leftist sympathizer, etc. Here's an intelligent guy who has been preaching conservatism for over 40 years, beginning as an editor at National Review. Just because liberals are idiots does not mean that thoughtful people cannot disagree on policy. The demonization of anyone who disagrees on anything is one reason there is little hope of a Republican turnaround in 2014 or 2016. The Democrats make room for everyone from nutgalls like Chuck Schumer and Tom Harkin to more reasonable people like Joe Manchin, but Republicans/conservatives bitterly denounce anyone who doesn't toe the hard right line on any issue. George Will may be wrong but it's not because he's uneducated, unintelligent or a closet socialist. Save the stronger rhetoric for our real enemies - like BHO and his minions.
9 weeks ago
9 weeks ago Link To Comment
Its true Rick, alot of STEM workers come from overseas…

Thanks to our sh*tty liberally indoctrinated school systems, real math and science disciplines are like Kryptonite in every major (democratically controlled) city in America…You wont find much among the younger Campus Hipster, Gangstas, Artsy Lesbos , Angry Greens or Dreamers…just the quiet Koreans and Chinese, but they don’t “count” because they’re ”white”

No, for math and science, we need immigrants from places like, say, India...who arrive from jump speaking Perfect English with the skills and discipline American Employers cant get anymore...

I work with several utterly brilliant, hardworking professionals from India who spent YEARS navigating the system to get here...and their contempt for the "amnesty" concept is overwhelming.

Because they know one of the reasons it took them YEARS to work out the legal and financial hurdles get here, is because that UNCHECKED MEXICAN CRIMINAL ENTERPRISE across our Southern Border, is displacing them by the thousands every week....

The Honest and Law Abiding, the Productive and Responsible, are having their place in line repeatedly hijacked by the Lawless, the Illiterate, the Dependent and the Criminal, who cut-in without so much as an “excuse me”, and have the NERVE shout "racism" if someone dares object.

And, funny....everyone seems to be afraid to say that out loud…..

I’m getting a weird sensation….a Disturbance in The Force I’ve not felt since…..

When we tacitly agree we WILL not prevent ANY LAWLESS PERSON who so desires from simply waltzing in from Mexico at their own discretion, offer NO PENALTY, while at the same time seek to "compensate" for the ill effects of such lawlessness by limiting/raising the bar on the lawful, you have (wait for it!) the same inevitable sh*t-pile dysfunctionl mess on your hands....

Kinda like all those "gun free zones" in every liberal State, you know, the ones where no one is ever executed?....maintain a Catch and Release program for Violent Gun offenders (Navy shipyard shooting anyone?) and crack down on the "Registration" side ...

Results? Um, yeah, I thought so.

Question is (for RINOS like Will) How did you NOT see that coming?

Are you really, truly THAT stupid, or are you just a Garden Variety Traitor?

RINO or coward, which is it?



(show less)
9 weeks ago
9 weeks ago Link To Comment
THE WELFARE STATE NEEDS THE WORKFORCE REPLENISHED (BY ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS)

I have a better idea: abolish abortion and we'll have millions of bodies to do just that.

www.apollospeaks.com
9 weeks ago
9 weeks ago Link To Comment
Sure, abolish all abortions and we'll have millions of unwanted children (usually without fathers) who will fill up our welfare rolls, penitentiaries, drug rehab programs, and our already dangerous streets. I'd rather have a million Hondurans who actually want to work.
Let's get rid of birth control while we're at it; after all, we need future workers and its the job of the American woman to produce them!
9 weeks ago
9 weeks ago Link To Comment
"...its the job of the American woman to produce them!"--Mr Rick

You're arguing that American females are sperm-hungry, leg-spreading zombies.

You may want to further develop your argument and try again.
9 weeks ago
9 weeks ago Link To Comment
Will is not an idiot or a liar; he is scared. Just like the rest of the establishment. Politics to them is the art of the possible. The trouble with that is to them nothing other than compromising is possible.
Ingram represents (a majority in my view) those of us who want to fight. To beat back this onslaught of socialism by challenging the character of individual politicians - and the morality of the ideas and ideology they represent.
Rove and the gang are going to concentrate their funds on the big three battleground states, and counties in the last month of a given race. We feel we should have a nation wide campaign right now labeling Obamacare, and the economic policies of Barack Obama as the new face of socialism. Convincing Americans that they will get nothing but the same by supporting any democrats that have followed the President while he has taken our country down this path.
Once 90 million policies are cancelled, and the public has the Obamacare=socialism planted in their head, it will be good night for the progressives for another generation.
What do you think Obama did to the dog abusing, cancer patient murdering, 47% hater Mitt Romney? He pre-labeled him before Romney had the money to fight back - while Rove and the establishment gang was running targeted ads in OHIO!

The founders (and Sowell, Freidman, Hayek)knew the collective wisdom of the country is better than any group or individual. All the blah blah blah coming from the pie hole of the dems, and the GOP establishment is BUNK! My son, my neighbor, my dad, my friends cousin, have all lost jobs, homes, and the will to keep thriving. We see the boarded up store fronts with our own eyes. The happy talk is fooling no one, and we will have no more of it!

How many times does this have to be pointed out to the GOP? They are getting the same immigration response Bush did in 2006-07.
9 weeks ago
9 weeks ago Link To Comment
“The welfare state NEEDS its workforce replenished,” O.M.G!! George Will is supposed to be a conservative?? His basis for supporting amnesty and open borders is perpetuation of the welfare state??? I'm speechless.

And competition for human capitol?? Really? So if we don't open our borders to hundreds of millions of illiterate, backward, third world moochers, they're going to take their "business" elsewhere? Hmmm. Gee, gimme a minute to think about that.... OK, done. Yeah, I say let 'em go somewhere else.... That was tough.
9 weeks ago
9 weeks ago Link To Comment
Will is no conservative...

He is a media personality, an actor..he throws us an occasional bone while sleeping with the enemy in comfort and luxury, playing his "role" in the production, after which he's invited to SOME of the same parties as the "Beautiful People"

And he knows he can only go so far with his "conservative" schtick before they take him seriously....

Expect little from this small man, in the way of Real Character
9 weeks ago
9 weeks ago Link To Comment
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