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Spengler

Suppose the German military had crushed the Nazi Party in 1936

August 14th, 2013 - 9:54 pm

I do not have anything new to say about Egypt; I said it all a year ago and more. Failure is an option in Egypt.  The denouement is inevitable and therefore of minor analytic interest. But I should like to ask a question:

Suppose the German military had overthrown the democratically-elected leader of Germany and massacred his loyal followers, say, in 1936? The world, presumably, would have condemned the blatant use of force against an elected leader even if, hypothetically, a third of the German population already had taken to the streets to demand Hitler’s ouster.  The Muslim Brothera are Nazis bearing a crescent rather than a swastika.

The world is more in need of reminder than instruction, the late Father Richard John Neuhaus liked to say, and in the case of the Muslim Brotherhood, a useful reminder is to read once again Paul Berman’s 2007 New Republic essay and his 2010 book, The Flight of the Intellectuals, which expanded it. Archivists have brought to light the wartime German Foreign Ministry broadcasts that created modern Islamist ideology and in particular its ferocious Jew-hatred. For the details, read Berman.  Here is one citation from Berman’s essay worth pondering:

There is nothing especially novel or bizarre in noticing that al-Banna displayed an eager interest in the aesthetic cult of death. The classic history of the Muslim Brotherhood, The Society of the Muslim Brothers, by Richard P. Mitchell, which appeared in 1969, was quite lucid on this topic even then. Al-Banna came up with a double phrase about the importance of death as a goal of jihad—“the art of death” (fann al-mawt) and “death is art” (al-mawt fann). This phrase became, in Mitchell’s description, a famous part of al-Banna’s legacy. Stringing together his own paraphrases with al-Banna’s words, Mitchell wrote: “The Qur’an has commanded people to love death more than life” (which, I might add, is a phrase that we have heard more than once in terrorist statements during the last few years, for instance in the videotape that was made by the Islamist group that attacked Madrid in 2004). And al-Banna continued, in Mitchell’s presentation: “Unless the philosophy of the Qur’an on death replaces the love of life which has consumed Muslims, they will reach naught. Victory can only come with the mastery of the art of death.”

Read Berman before you weep for the fate of the Muslim Brotherhood.

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All Comments   (13)
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The fact is the Wermacht's commanders who started discussing a putsch in 1935-36 after Hitler started to purge some senior commanders and institute the Fuhrer Oath were gentlemen. They couldn't imagine that the City of London and the future deposed (allegedly for Wallace Simpson) King were Nazi sympathizers who sold them AND Czechoslovakia out in 1938 by giving Hitler everything he wanted. The hope of course, was to turn Hitler east. Thus Hitler's surprise when Great Britain and France actually declared war on him over Poland. Stalin thanks to the Cambridge circle knew all about the pro-Nazi elements in the UK and drew his own conclusions.

As the commenter alluded to below, the honorable German Resistance was betrayed twice: first at Munich, and again in July 1944 when the SS knew it was in the works if not the exact timing. The SS hoped Stauffenberg and co would do the dirty work of getting rid of Hitler for them, leaving their hands 'clean' to negotiate with the Western Allies and not be blamed.
1 year ago
1 year ago Link To Comment
For the record:

Lee ran out of bullets and powder BEFORE he ran out of willing troopers.

It took repeated efforts on his part to talk his boys into giving up. Many wanted to fight on with bare feet and bayonets. (!)

At the time, the Army of Northern Virginia had been strategically surrounded. No more supplies were coming through.

The Confederacy never ran out of the will to fight. Sherman's march had shut off its victuals.

The same die hard resistance proved up everywhere from Vicksburg on over.

So, even 30% losses didn't, in fact, do the trick.
1 year ago
1 year ago Link To Comment
Tell me once more why and how Islam in and of itself is not the root problem?

To steal a phrase whose author I cannot remember "A radical Islamist wants to kill all the infidels, a moderate Islamist wants the radicals to kill all the infidels"
1 year ago
1 year ago Link To Comment
I wish the German military and or UK/French had eliminated the Nazis in ’36, or that Chamberlain and Daladier had supported the Czechs in 1938. But I’ve also read that between 1936 and 1938 German rearmament gave the Germans significant advantages over the Allies, even w/Czech forces factored in. The balance was only somewhat restored w/the British acquisition of Spitfire/Hurricane fighters and home defense radar in 1939 to 40. Allied leaders must have thought that military intervention in 1938 would, at best, result in a 1916 type stalemate w/heavy air attack of cities using chemical bombs.

I’m not an expert in the orders of battle of that era, but it makes Chamberlain’s conduct at Munich more understandable (although it does not excuse his opposition to rearmament until late in the game).

As to modern day analogies, I’d say that the present government of Iran, more than the MB, represents a Nazi level threat.
1 year ago
1 year ago Link To Comment
Chamberlain's 'pacifism' was ENTIRELY driven by the feckless French.

At ALL TIMES the power split between them was:
Britain = Royal Navy; sea dominance
France = French Army; land dominance

Tangling with even the a-building German Army required the French Army. Five or six British expeditionary divisions were a joke.

So when Paris made it crystal clear that she wouldn't lift a finger -- the die was cast.

All that Chamberlain could do was play for time. While talking peace, he was spending frantically -- building the armed forces (and factories) that Churchill would use to win the war.

[ Radar, Spitfire, Hurricane, King George class battleships, Bomber Command, Merline engine, Universal carrier... even the code breaking crowd... ]





1 year ago
1 year ago Link To Comment
What is the point of democracy if it ends up destroying our free will? Also ask a Christain who believes Jesus is the King Of King's and Lord of Lords look at how the Muslim Brotherhood burning down all the Christian churches in Egypt yesterday
and what about our own nation? what if abortion banned to tomorrow? 10 million Ellen Jamesons take to the streets but keep doing their business with their tongues unlike in the movie below.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zP6NwZ0ERSw

Free will now is being destroyed by democracy and slaves to great sin is becoming normal
1 year ago
1 year ago Link To Comment
Please forgive the rash of stupid spelling errors below. I had two hours of sleep last night. I have recently gone through some studies on the limited German military opposition to Hitler and am horrified with the attempts to present the MB as peace loving or democratically elected. The results of my horror are the horrible spelling errors. But better my errors, then the erasures of life that Raymond Ibrahim is documenting right now. Long live military coups against tryannts.
1 year ago
1 year ago Link To Comment
I will, Mr. Goldman, try again, and in a very reduced fashion, to give reality to your phantasy. (PJM finds it difficult to preserve my comments.) Gen. Ludwig Beck and some collaborators wanted in 1938 to remove Hitler from power, killing him if need be. Those few generals and a coupole of civilian leaders wanted no war and found the grapping up of the Sudeten-Germans to be a prelude to war. Hitler wanted to conqueror Czechoslovakia militarily, but "peace" talks took place and Chaimberlain gave in and signed a peace treaty with Hitler giving him the German part of Czechoslovakia (and Hitler grapped up the rest 6 months later). Chaimberlain returned home waving the treaty in the air and pointing at Hitler's signature while he blurted out "peace in our time". Result: Beck & Co could no longer represent Hitler as a war-monger, whose removal is justified for a German public wanting no war. Chaimberlain's "peace in our time" resulted in the frustration of a REAL coup that could have REALLY changed history and the war of wars, whose wake is still with us, would not have taken place. This is no phantasy! Reality is stranger than fiction, and sadder.

Gen Beck kept his wonderous desire to kill Hitler and partook in other murder plots, two in 1943. Beck was one of the leading organizers of the July 20, 1944 attempt to blow up Hitler by Staufenberg (about which Hollywood made a trashy film starring Tom Cruise). The attempt failed, Staufenberg was executed and Beck, like some other generals, committed suicide. (Suicide here was not cowardliness, rather standard German military practice and a way to avoid torture that could give info the the Gestapo.)

The parallels with Obama and the Brotherhood are so obvious that I will not make them. I will, however,l defend Chaimberlain in the sense that he, after the multimillions dead in WW I, simply grabbed for straws and was at no time and in no way pro-Nazi. Obama, in constrast, has shown a pronounced pro-Islamic preference since the 2009 Cairo speach and has actively sought to install a genocidal organization similar to the Nazies. (Indeed, the Nazies were affirmed by the MB during the war and some SS helped the MB after the war.)

The Egyptian miliatary intervention (like the attempted German military intrventions) is not act by done exemplary models of democracy. Just soldiers who do not want the dictatorship of a Nazi-like, viz. MB-like tryanny. I can sort of praise the integrity of a Chaimberlain, but not of Obama. May the "coup" of the Egyptian military not experience a fate similar to the coups of the German military a few wars back. If so, our world will be sadder.
1 year ago
1 year ago Link To Comment
Prof. - After clickng the "more" button on your comment I see that I've echoed you re: Chamberlain. H/T to you.

You should give Cruise a break. His Stauffenberg film looks like Shakespeare compared with most Hollywood stuff.
1 year ago
1 year ago Link To Comment
As I wrote in another PJMedia combox, Putin would love for Obama and U.S. Congress to pull the military support out from under the Egyptian military! What Sadat undid, would be theirs again!

Putin would re-create a military alliance from 1958, Russia+Egypt+Syria, united by being against the Muslim Brotherhood and other Sunni extremists. The Russians could warm up to the Gulf States as well by helping to quell Sunni extremist movements that challenge their status quo.

Frankly, if you're one of these governments, who would you rather have as an ally at this point, Putin or Obama?
1 year ago
1 year ago Link To Comment
In a recent Asia Times column, Pepe Escobar compared Putin’s posture towards to Obama to a polar bear sizing up a baby seal.
1 year ago
1 year ago Link To Comment
MarcH,

That's because as the crowd still in denial about Benghazi gun/MANPAD running to Syria should know, Putin has the kompromat on why Amb. Stevens and the CIA were really there before the attack. And he's ruthlessly exploiting it. Unfortunately there are still some fools who, because of their hatred of Putin, would rather not believe he has the Obama Administration by the cojones and can squeeze any time he likes. That thought (along with Israel and Germany joining the Eurasian Economic Union after the U.S. dollar collapses) is simply too painful to contemplate.
1 year ago
1 year ago Link To Comment
The Rohm Putsch has consolidated Hitler's grip on the military so 1936 seems a tad too late, but yes, who knows? Anyways MB and non-MB leaderships are not compatible and one of them will have to disappear. There is no other alternative or compromise.
1 year ago
1 year ago Link To Comment
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