Boy, is that a question to which I have no answer – at least no answer outside the bounds of black comedy.
Today there are more stirring reports from the religious lunatic asylum: About 60 rockets and mortars pelted southern Israel by midafternoon Wednesday, the military said. No injuries were reported, but a factory, a home and other structures were damaged. Rockets reached as far as Beit Hagdi, a small community about 20 kilometers (12 miles) from Gaza City, the military said.
Is there a Palestinian death wish? Seemingly. Sooner or later, the Israelis will react and that reaction will undoubtedly kill many more Gazans than they will Israelis. Traditional types explain this by writing of the “hopelessness” of Gaza – but as Michael opines this morning, they may have it wrong. This is religious fanaticism at its purest. If you want to know what’s going on, it might be more informative to heed the words of Iraqi Cleric Sheik Hareth Al-’Ubeidi, quoted by MEMRI today (registration required):
The Prophet Muhammad promised us that Constantinople, or Istanbul, would be conquered, and indeed it was. Today, Istanbul is a Muslim city. It is part of a Muslim country. It is a city that symbolizes Islam. Istanbul was conquered, as the Prophet Muhammad foretold. When was it conquered? Much later, in the days of Muhammad the Conqueror. The promise of the Prophet was fulfilled later, in the Ottoman period. That’s with regard to Istanbul and the promise of the Prophet Muhammad.
He also said that Rome would be conquered, and we will see that in the future. It will not necessarily be conquered by the sword and through fighting. No! Maybe it will be conquered by means of preaching. Islam will be spread there, and people will see the light of Islam, and thus, the city will be conquered. This promise has yet to be fulfilled, but it is inevitable. We can swear that this will happen. We have no doubt about this.
My question for today: When does religion become a virus?
Roger:
Remember the title of one of Freud’s books: “The Future of an Illusion”. Whether you agree with Sigmund or not, the title is suggestive.
Religion becomes toxic when dogma takes over and illusion (a bad translation for what Freud meant) becomes the controlling factor.
The present Pope had it right when he mentioned that religion must be based in rationality, not in mass irrational beliefs.
One could also add: “Religion is the Opiate of the Masses”…all the above point to the same phenomena: suspension of criticism and reason.
Neal Stephenson’s Snow Crash answered that last question.
Of course, Gaza is no laughing matter. It’s a problem with the West’s inability to deal with islamic culture in general: we underestimate the power of the radicals and appeal to moderates who have heretofore done nothing.
It also raises a very politically awkward question. What, precisely, is the desired outcome in Gaza? I mean, other than a miraculous change of heart for the people therein? To me, that’s the key problem. This is a district that isn’t just a failed state, it’s gleefully failing. Israel tried to give it to Egypt in the Camp David accords, and Egypt didn’t want it.
In the West Bank, you can see some kind of shadow of a hope for a peaceful resolution, however remote or improbable. In Gaza, nothing. No paper treaty will ever quell the violence, and imported weapons make the place a deadly threat to Israel. So it seems that even if peace is made everywhere else, Israel is doomed to smashing in periodically with military strikes to eliminate the worst enemies, and the Gazans are doomed to horrible suffering which is largely of their own design.
Roger L. Simon: “My question for today: When does religion become a virus?”
When acts supposedly taken in the name of a religion demonstrate that the goal has ceased being about the religion itself and have instead turned into goals of pride. And I don’t mean the positive, enabling, uplifting side of pride when I say this. I mean the negative, excessive, disabling, destructive side.
It’s amazing how parents will sacrifice much self-image to keep their children fed, clothed, and housed, but will turn around and condemn those same children to death for the sake of pride. A father will debase himself for food for his kids, but will refuse to surrender this overweaning pride and get his children killed if it satisfies a goal such as killing Jews. That value system is screwed up, but beyond that, keep in mind how religion merely becomes the cover which defends the excessive acts taken out of group-centered destructive pride. Suicide bombers may invoke Allah, but are they really fighting for Him? Or their own sense of pride, built stone by stone through the relentless broadcast of propoganda against “The Jews”. If such people would actually analyze which powers-that-be impact their situation, I’d think we’d see a lot more bombings against the Palestinian Authority for wasting money, capital, and whatnot, against Hamas for creating perverse financial incentives for such bombings (carry out a suicide bombing, and they’ll give your family money), and Hezbollah for wasting so much human capital in their efforts against Israel.
But unfortunately, the facade built on pride prevents such self analysis from occuring. Men like Walid Shoebat are the exception.
When the goals of pride, politics, nationality, or whatever are substituted for the lessons of religion, that’s when you can call it viral. But even I, someone who’s been speaking harshly against Islamic Terrorism and the excesses of Middle Eastern radicalism for years now, even prior to 9/11, won’t go so far as to call religion itself the virus. Rather, it’s the cell infected and killed by the viruses of terrorism and radicalism. And terrorism and radicalism can, in the end, be found to have it’s roots in the excessive, overbearing pride that enablers of such beliefs engender in their belief system’s followers.
I don’t think you can truly call religion “a virus”, even when you consider the current case of Islamic terrorism. But you can clearly note when followers allow it to be the vector through which the sick virus of nationalistic, violent pride infects populations. And you can note when elements of the religion fail to innoculate their followers against such infections, and fail to immunize themselves. True religion dies at that point, and the viral bodies propogate from the detrius of the once living cell of Islam.
The answer to Gaza in the short-term is to quarantine the virus. Eventually the hatred will either burn itself out, or consume the populace in a fit of self-immolation.
Hamas, Hezbollah, and the Palestinian “Authority” are each a criminal syndicate competing for the lucre generated by extortion, car theft, smuggling, kidnapping and the like. Yasser Arafat was the Capone of his day and his legacy lingers. The Palestinian territories are literally lawless as civilized people understand the term.
Add religious fanaticism to a culture of overt criminality and the vile mix simply defies solution by men. I suppose the God’s eye perspective is to let geologic time take care of the problem. It certainly won’t resolve itself in my lifetime.
The Arabs seem to be sinking into a vile stew of resentment and failure that will continue until someone learns how to reform Islam and solve the riddle of the Arab Mind. Read Michael Totten’s piece on Kosovo ten years later. A lot of this is the Arab culture that makes a poisonous combination with Islam (which, of course, they founded). As Bernard Lewis writes, something “went wrong” with Islam about 500 years ago. It has never dealt successfully with modernity except, perhaps, in Kosovo and some areas in East Asia.
If the goal of Hamas is wiping Israel off the map, I can see the logic in what they’re doing. Fire rockets, inviting retaliation, tighter blockades and further radicalization of Gazans. Hope your actions encourage Israelis to elect right-wing governments that condone the creation of more “facts on the ground” in form of West Bank settlements, in order to achieve the most important goal of taking a “two state solution” off the table. At that point, you just keep having babies until the demographics tilt your way, while agitating for “one man, one vote.”
A classic “markus” post – blame it all on the Joooos who aren’t allowed to defend themselves. Not surprising since he wants us all dead.
A classic Gary Rosen post — criticize my motives, ignore or grotesquely distort the facts I raise and the conclusions I draw, draw hysterical conclusions of his own.
Feel free to support whatever policy you see fit. If you think that Israel should continue to retaliate, ignore the past ineffectivness its attempts to fight the Arabs, and throw up its hands in despair when forced to contemplate its future, then don’t let me stop you — don’t worry, be happy. I’d suggest that letting Hamas join talks with Abbas and Secretary Rice might have worked out better.
Anyway, Happy Hanukkah.
No, Markus doesn’t want us dead. He wants Arabs dead – thousands of them – because that is what will happen if Hamas continues its psychotic religious behavior. It’s inevitable.
And Markus, Hamas could be at the meeting table in ten minutes if they renounced the destruction of Israel (just as Arafat could have had a state in ten minutes, if he had really wanted one). Everyone knows that, including Hamas. (Arafat knew it and ran away from Clinton, literally) But they are caught in a bind because if Israel is allowed to exist, Hamas has no reason for being. Their whole religious raison d’etre is a lie. So we are dealing with insanity – a truly self-destructive one. Until there is honesty about that – instead of fuddy duddy bourgeois liberal palaver like yours, Markus, – nothing will change.
The solution to Gaza is to bomb them back to the stone age. Oh wait a second……….
“I’d suggest that letting Hamas join talks with Abbas and Secretary Rice might have worked out better.”
The Hamas covenant calls explicitly for the murder of Jews – not Israelis, not Zionists, but Jews, invoking “Allah” as its justification. Hamas is beyond any possible doubt the present-day manifestation of Hitler’s Nazis. If you are not completely deluded, my first post stands.
“I’d suggest that letting Hamas join talks with Abbas and Secretary Rice might have worked out better.”
Oh, that would have been good. Condi could have told more tales of Jim Crow — and how she understands what Palis go through at the evil Jooish checkpoints. She was a joke; good riddance.
“If you think that Israel should continue to retaliate, ignore the past ineffectivness its attempts to fight the Arabs…”
Completely wrong. When Israel actually fights the Arabs, instead of piecemeal military actions constrained by the U.S. or Eurabia, they do quite well. 1967 showed the world that Jews won’t just walk onto the sealed trains anymore.
Even Arabs can understand defeat. They just need a more forceful messenger. But when Israel gives up land for peace (the REAL failure in Israeli policy) you create a base for Jew killers that you no longer control.
So now, while Holy Land Catholics and Orthodox pray and kneel, 60 rockets and mortars fall on innocent Jews. Not one word of protest will be heard. Merry @#$%ing Christmas.
Israel is just another outpost of Western decay and surrender to the infidels…Ehud Olmert,Ehud Barack and Tzipi Livni have destroyed Zion
If the athiests who rule there now don’t care,then why should we?
“He also said that Rome would be conquered, and we will see that in the future.”
Easier said than done even with the flexible backbones of today’s leaders around the world. SPQR.
Roger, not to be too crass, but…
my plan for Gaza involves bulldozers…lots and lots and lots of bulldozers…I’m sure Caterpillar, with the economy such as it is, would be happy to rush over a shipment or three if the Israelis don’t have enough of their own already…
of course, my plan for Gaza also requires a set of leaders in Israel who have spines and who take their constitutional duty to protect their own citizens seriously…no luck on that front even if enough bulldozers were available…
so, I guess you could sum it up in a nice, brief slogan…”Bulldozers for Peace” or something like that…
My question for today: When does religion become a virus?
Roger, it doesn’t. It simply becomes a host for infection. It always has, it always will. But, we need to separate the host from the invading cells.
Religion provides fertile ground for mischief, not via the moral teachings, the guideposts for human behavior and by providing an outlet for faith, but rather, by the corruption for personal gain or self-aggrandizement of the positions of moral “teacher”, mentor of behavior, and instructors in a belief system.
ANY “movement” that has, as one of its core purposes…the destruction, oppression, silencing or distortion of another set of humans…is, by definition, an infectious disease. It invades the host body and takes over its functions.
Allow me to make a parallel comparison. Islam vs. radical mullahfia thugocracy. If one conflates the former with the latter, one comes to the conclusion that Islam is not a religion of peace. That the religion itself seeks bloodthirsty vengance against real and imagined enemies stemming from the early days of recorded human history.
My thesis is, it does no such thing. It operates in its purest form, as a guidepost for principled human behavior and it is only upon its corrpution, the infectious diseased takeover of the “host” by vile and despicable, power hungry, self-aggrandizing cretins…does it give off the violent tinged, crazed, and senseless reflection. It is not Islam, the religion, that is to blame. It is the false prophets who stole it in the name of their own glory seeking, who have turned it to their own use.
My parallel, is modern liberalism. In its purest form, it is a wonderland of compassion, honor, and good deeds. In the hands of the infectious parasites who have stolen it for their own power and glory….it has turned into a rabid den of liars, oppressors, silencers and hypocrites. The leftism credo of “faith” in the “message” has been so corrupted as to be nearly unrecognizable in the hands of its current “leadership icons”.
As in Islam, the broad farcical description of “religion of peace” set against the backdrop of attempts at global mass murder, can be contrasted against the broad farcical description of liberal mindset of “open and tolerant” set against the backdrop of distorted stereotyping, suppression of facts and deconstruction of any ideas not comporting with the “message”.
Religion isn’t the virus. Liberalism isn’t the virus. They simply play host to parasites who kill off the good cells and replace them with necrotic ones.
And truth is the medicine for each.
I guess my point above, Roger…is that when followers of an ideology are willing to “cheat the truth” in order to advance the ideology, it ceases to contain the purity which gave rise to its beauty.
It is not the fear that we will miss the “messiah”, but that when we force the creation of “paradise” or “camelot” or “nirvana” or “heaven” into the march to perdition “by any means necessary”…we have lost the compass and map on our human voyage.
When the “message” of how to get there, trumps the rules of how to lead a human existence of principle and honor…when the attraction to “the faith” is based upon acceptance by the other congregants and not self-fulfillment of common decency in our days of drawing breath here…we all lose.
One sees this most clearly in radical Islam and radical leftism, but it appears elsewhere as well.
Take any modern “hot button” issue and apply first common human decency, honor and principle to the situation. (abortion at each stage [early, mid-term, late term], stem cell research, gay marriage, …as well as political issues such as the “fairness doctrine”, mortgage crisis, and the double standard in our current information stream)…and take this test:
Apply an approach devoid of anything except your purest human decency, erasing all “peer acceptance” by one group or another. Just simply apply principle, honor, compassion and fundamental fairness to each issue. Strip away where you “want” the conclusion to end up, simply follow the path of what you believe in, as right is right, fair is fair, wrong is wrong. It’s a very hard exercise for some. It is extremely difficult to let go of where you want to end up…putting the conclusion first, instead of last…where it belongs.
I have done this with several friends of mine who are self-described “liberals”. And I asked them take this little “field test” with abortion. At what stage do you get uncomfortable killing off the life form? They get very uneasy when you reach their stage of discomfort. Because I ask them…why is YOUR line, that you would not cross…the correct one? Faith? Morals? And why, more importantly…is someone who places their line earlier “an evil person” who needs to be demonized? Isolated and ridiculed?
Because they value the preciousness of life more openly? They automatically, without exception…immediately begin to recite the litany of “other” things “those people” believe which makes them “evil”. (bigotry, homophobia, xenophobia, etc). Not once, ever…has this not happened. Confronted with their own weakness in logic, they resort to demonizing the “other”.
Here is the lesson in it, Roger. THAT…is religion corrupted. THAT is faith in the “message” not in the principles. THAT…is how religion or faith is corrupted. When being accepted into “the group” is more important than the principles it advocates…all meaning is lost.
I happen to believe that the greatest gift we have, is free will. The freedom to be as dumb as a stump in our acts and deeds. And to make mistakes. Horrendous, mind-numbingly dumb decisions. This is how we learn to be better. And I fall into the category of folks who advocate against forced “decisions”. (of course, at some point there are acts which harm others and must be enforced, but, in general…free will on all other issues allows us to create our own path)
But, I do so with complete respect and admiration for faith-based folks who draw their lines on morality earlier in the game than I do. I am pro-choice…because of my belief in our “greatest gift”…the ability to be wrong. But I am not pro-abortion…because I think that decision is often made wrongly, based upon a devaluation of the preciousness of life….and made for matters of convenience and it treats life with a cavalier attitude that does not make our human existence better in any way.
Most people will refuse to engage in this test. It simply shatters their comfort zone.
Given Italy’s dismally low birthrates and the high influx of North African immigrants, the sheik may well be right.
It doesn’t become a virus, it is inherently a virus.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities”