What the Russian Sleepers Did
The Justice Department complaint against the sleepers can be found here, one devoted to Anna Chapman and Mikhail Semenko and the other to their associates. The first describes their overall mission, how they communicated via a mobile wi-fi router built into a laptop rigged to connected only to certain MACs and how they were stung by agents Undercover 1 and Undercover 2. The second PDF describes what the agents of influence did. I’ve copied excerpts below.
Mission
You were sent to USA for long-term service trip. Your education, bank accounts, car, house etc — all these serve one goal: fulfill your main mission, i.e. to search and develop ties in policymaking circles in US and send intels [intelligence reports' to C[enter].
Boston cell
[April 2006] gathering information regarding, among other things, United States policy with regard to the use of the Internet by terrorists, United States policies in Central Asia, problems with United States military policy, and “western estimation of [Russian] foreign policy. … [May 2006] focused on turnover at the head of the CIA and the 2008 U.S. Presidential election. This information was described as having been “received in private conversation with [name omitted', former legislative counsel for US Congress, specialist in [information omitted], member of faculty in economics of [information omitted],. Has contacts within Congress and policymakers of Washington.”
[Sept 2005] ‘Dv.’ has “established contact” with a particular person. That person is a former high-ranking United States Government national security official, whose name is provided in the September 23 message … [Dec 3, 2003] “During the seminar at [location omitted] Dv made contacts w. [name and title omitted] working for [a United States Government research facility, name omitted] in [geographical location of facility, name omitted'. He works on issues of strategic planning related to nuclear weapons. Dv. had conversations with him about research programs on small yield high penetration nuclear warheads recently authorized by US Congress (nuclear 'bunker-buster' warheads)." ...
[2007]“Got your note and signal … agree with your proposal to use ‘Farmer’ to start building network of students in DC. Your relationship with ‘Parrot’ looks very promising as a valid source of info from US power circles. To start working on him professionally,we need all available details on his background, current position, habits, contacts opportunities, etc … Plus you should observe our security rules and recommendations in working with contacts … Agree with you [sic] proposal to keep relations with ‘Cat’ [the same person mentioned in the September 23 message above] but watch him.”
New Jersey cell
[Spring 2009] “[i]nfo task” from the spring of 2009, in advance of “Obama’s visit to [Russia], ” … information on the U.S. position with respect to a new Strategic Arms Limitation Treaty, Afghanistan and Iran’s nuclear programs. Moscow Center indicated that it “needs intels (related to this [sic] topics) which should reflect approaches and ideas of ‘[Russia] policy team member’: [four names of sub-cabinet United States foreign policy officials, omitted]. Try to outline their views and most import Obama’s goals which he expects to achieve during summit in July and how does his team plan to do it (arguments, provisions, means of persuasion to ‘lure’ [Russia] into cooperation in US interest).”
…[Feb 3, 09] “had work-related personal meetings with [a prominent New York-based financier, name omitted] and was assigned his account” … “financier prominent in plitics,” “an active fundraiser for [a major political party, name omitted],” and “a personal friend of a [a current Cabinet official, name omitted]. A response from Moscow Center indicated that the financier “is checked in C’s database – he is clean. Of course he is a very interesting ‘target’. Try to build up little by little relations with him … maybe he can provide … with remarks are US foreign policy … White House internal ‘kitchen’ …
[Oct 18] “vital for R, highlighting US approach and providing comments made by local expert (political, economic) scientist’s community. Try to single out tidbits unknown but revealed in private by sources close to State department, Government, major think tanks.”
[October of 2009] “Info: on gold” …
[December 2009] “strengthen … ties w. classmates on daily basis incl. professor who can help in job search … collect information on certain university associations … students who apply (or are hired already) for a job at CIA …
[Jan 19, 2010] “a job with a private sector entity that would involve ‘lobbying’ … concerned “might require an extended background check.”
The NYT questions the value of sleeper cell and answers the question of why the FBI, having identified its members, did not simply play back the cell on their Russian controllers. Apparently something suggested to the Feds that the sleepers would get away.
The alleged agents were directed to gather information on nuclear weapons, American policy toward Iran, C.I.A. leadership, Congressional politics and many other topics, prosecutors say. The Russian spies made contact with a former high-ranking American national security official and a nuclear weapons researcher, among others. But the charges did not include espionage, and it was unclear what secrets the suspected spy ring — which included five couples — actually managed to collect.
After years of F.B.I. surveillance, investigators decided to make the arrests last weekend, just after an upbeat visit to President Obama by the Russian president, Dmitri A. Medvedev, said one administration official. Mr. Obama was not happy about the timing, but investigators feared some of their targets might flee, the official said.
The NYT maybe mistaken in thinking the only useful kinds of subversives are those who take pictures of blueprints with Minox miniature cameras. Agents who can influence policy at the direction of foreign intelligence important too. The pattern is clear. These sleepers were to do mostly what policy wonks, journalists, lobbyists and activists routinely did. The Russians worked to use the sleepers as spotters, semi-open source intel gatherers and influence peddlers. One of the interesting aspects of the modus operandi is that the distinction between their tasks at the behest of a foreign power and what activists might ordinarily do is pretty small. They met people and influenced options — that’s what people in policy circles do! This espionage case raises the question: if the behavior of Russian agents is outwardly no different from people who are practicing the “highest form of patriotism” what is the difference between the two? When the question: ‘whose side are you on?’ ceases to be a legitimate test of patriotism, how is treachery defined? Outwardly the sleepers did for love of the Rodina what many would do out of resentment toward their own country. Maybe the Russians will eventually return home to a medal. They knew at all events, whose side they were on.
Some people have no doubts.
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So how many other sleepers are still in the current Administration’s social/workplace circles? Only a coincidence that Rahm Emmanuel is rumored to be going back to Chi-town?
Why was Treason deemed the most horrible Sin by Dante? The medieval tendency was for wars of religion. The need within a society to do so, identify the potential traitor and destroy them even at the cost of internal violence was repeated time and again. Shakespeare is full of struggles over an identity crisis. Who can you trust and what are you loyal to? Recently it was proposed that Romney could not be trusted because of his Mormon faith and efforts were made to impugn the loyalty of Nikki Haley based on her Sikh origin. Why were the Greeks obsessed with the threat of stasis? To them it was veritable hell on earth. Hell is a place of chaos, an existence without rules.
Clearly there is a deep human need for predictability and reliability. The first thing that God does in Genesis is he draws lines and makes rules. The conflict is between three views of the rules. First are those who see the boundaries as protection that permit the development of freedom and creativity in a safe place. Second are those who worship the rules for their own sake and seek to thicken the walls and draw them in in order to reduce the scope for free choice within. Third are those who seek to breach the walls because they prefer the destructive power of entropy. In the second group are authoritarian prudes, horrified at the thought that someone someplace may be having fun, and most totalitarians. In the third group are small groups of revolutionary elitists. They seek to smash the system to prove that they are better than everyone else. The brief taste of power that their destructive acts produce allows them to emulate Milton’s Satan, who rules in Hell.
For us to find the right level of balance we need to use the tools available for us. Those include the Constitution and the intellectual and moral heritage it rests on. These include the experience of those who crafted a functional democracy. For that we need an educational system that honors the experience and wisdom of the Western tradition that Madison and others were steeped in.
I thought spies had become redundant during the Bush Administration. But putting Obama in there must really have the Russians confused. “We’ll never figure these Americans out!”
LotM, Medieval combat was based on the shield wall. Victory went to the side that could hold their shield wall together the longest. Once the shield wall broke, the slaughter began.
So treason or cowardice determined most battles, since it was difficult to break a shield wall through main force.
One of the factors that made the Legions so deadly was the pila and it’s use in preventing the enemy from forming the shield wall.
Quick question, did theses spies discover anything that you or I couldn’t find on the internet? As far as being ‘agents of influence’, I doubt that it is possible in an open democracy. Obama doesn’t rule. He has to fight for every scrap he gets. So how much influence does the Under Secretary of Floral Arrangements have?
What this tells me is that after dealing with America for centuries, the Russian still don’t have a clue about how a Capitalist Democracy works. You don’t steal influence, you buy it. In competition with others seeking to buy it.
Corruption is very much a free market item.
Want the contract for building that bridge to nowhere? You are competing against the guy that wants to run the ferry to nowhere. Senator Pork will go with the highest bidder.
Rosinante,
Concur, the threat was real. Islam has always advanced through treachery, see the Yarmuk and Manzikert.
@4. Rosinante
“did theses spies discover anything that you or I couldn’t find on the internet?”
If Russsian KGB defectors to the West such as Yuri Bezmenov can be believed, discovery has nothing at all to do with modern, or recent, Russian spies’ mission objectives in the West.
It had everything to do with ideological subversion.
http://cubanology.com/cubareport/?p=1155
Malcolm Muggeridge said.
Philby is “in the category of Folk Hero today, this being the age of Hamlet rather than Henry V, of Judas rather than his Master.
Our contemporary Casabianca is the first, not the last, to leave the burning ship; if indeed, it is not he who set fire to it.”
Modified limited hangout.
As always, this is not what it seems.
In many ways, including the prosaic tradecraft, this feels like a Potemkin spy ring.
And the question to me might be, “You sound like you don’t trust the FBI/Justice Department here?”
My answer is that I trust them to be who they are.
Then again, Yuri Bezmenov is now old news.
Maybe we have come full circle.
Maybe “ideological subversion” of the West is done and dusted.
Perhaps we are back at “information” necessary for whatever Russia has in mind for our future.
“It had everything to do with ideological subversion.”
Mike, I have a conservative POV. Subversion is NOT spying. Spying is NOT subversion. Two different things.
Spying involves theft. Plans, weapons, troop numbers and locations, etc. Subornation of an asset is part of what an agent does, but it is not spying itself. The person turned is the spy.
In a consensual society, subversion is part of the political process. For ALL sides. It’s called an election. While certain techniques of subversion are illegal, subversion itself is protected by the first amendment. Just to make sure we are talking apples and apples;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subversion
{snipped}
“Subversion refers to an attempt to overthrow structures of authority, including the state.”
IE: an election.
There are other meanings of subversion, so we might be talking past each other.
Marriam-Webster has;
“a systematic attempt to overthrow or undermine a government or political system by persons working secretly from within”
This is a tad more sinister then the current accepted definition. It indirectly excludes normal and standard means of overthrowing a government.
LotM, I was thinking of Manzikert as I typed. And Doukas, of course. I never could understand Doukas. What’s the point of being Emperor when there is no Empire? Maybe his hubris was so great he didn’t realize what his treason would accomplish? Sort of like some American politicians of today.
This is a a piece on the technological angle.
A piece posted at FreeRepublic
June 29, 2010
By Toby Westerman
California governor, and former film superhero, Arnold Schwarzenegger has pledged to lead a trade mission to Russia and assist “in any way possible” Russia’s drive to develop its own high tech “Silicon Valley.” U.S. president Barack Obama has also promised his backing in facilitating the flow of U.S. technology to Russia.
The eager participation of Schwarzenegger and Obama in exporting U.S. technological capabilities came during Russian president Dmitry Medvedev’s three day visit (June 22-24) to the United States. Medvedev was looking for technological assistance, and in return offered an increase in U.S. corporate profits and an attractive return for investors.
Medvedev’s campaign for venture capital and high tech aid occurred as his “new” Russia is looking increasingly like the old Soviet Union. Stark warnings about the true intensions of the Moscow elite are coming from vocal opponents within Russia, but are ignored by many in positions of power and influence in the United States.
The Russian “Silicon Valley” effort, known as the Skolkovo Project, named after the Moscow suburb in which it is located, has already gained wide support in the U.S. Boeing, Google, and Cisco are among the U.S. corporate giants participating in Skolkovo, and the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) has agreed to participate in joint research with Skolkovo. MIT may establish, with Russian high tech corporations, a separate research group located at Skolkovo.
Millions of dollars of U.S. investment funds are already designated to be transferred to the Skolkovo Project.
One may wonder why these investments were not directed toward U.S. technological ventures, especially during the current recession/depression?
One of the more important effects of the extension of the Federal Government ino virtually every area of life has been the rise of the policy wonk.
DC is run by policy wonks. After all, that’s pretty much what politicans do. And sinec there are only a limited number of elected positions available, and they are very expensive to attain, people wanting to becoame polocy wonks and play in the DC sandbox have sought out other means to do so. What the typical policy wonk wannabe does in DC is to find a postion where he can be his agency’s expert on some aspect of policy. It does not even have to be anything that is really important to the agency because people are willing to play in policy development just because it is fun and gives them some personal power. Thus we have situations like the USMC and USN telling the USAF how to do its own unique business just because they can.
One consequence of all of this is that it becomes harder and harder to get things done – there are too many people with their hand in it, 25 unknowns with only 20 equations. An even greater consequence is that consideration of the resource requirements for any action is the straw that breaks the camel’s back – it makes the whole process simply impossible, so they ignore resource limitations.
To me, these Russian agents appear to indicate that government’s recognition of the dominance of policy wonks in DC. As long as everyone else is playing in the sandbox, you may as well too. In fact you have to.
The information gained by these people was not intended to be merely academic but would be added to others to enable not only an assessment of US actions but also how to influence them. Quite a lot of foreign money from mysterious sources flowed into Obama’s coffers during the last election – and the Russians no doubt see this as the future norm.
Once Putin got his #1 stooge to burger buddy level within Team 44, he probably advised his cells to slumber. Perhaps the FBI misread this inactivity as preparations to bug out….so to speak. If they monitored their comms for as long as they are claiming then they should have a good idea of how the intel was processed.
Charles @ 11: One may wonder why these investments were not directed toward U.S. technological ventures, especially during the current recession/depression?
Presume American companies see this Skolkovo as a source of cheap engineering labor.
Remember, the US is now dead as a source of engineering. You can now only earn basically third-world wages working as an engineer in the US, as a result the number of American kids choosing science or engineering majors is now approaching zero. These companies have to move their main engineering labs overseas. India – just isn’t very good at it. China – probably will be, but may not partner very well. Russia? Who knows.
–
So, what did the Russian spys *do*? They failed to register. Oooh, scary. The “money laundering” appears to be the fact that they spent or accepted money for said activities, not that they ran a dry cleaners with rubles and accepted dollars in exchange.
14. Josh
Presume American companies see this Skolkovo as a source of cheap engineering labor.
…………
Russian president emphasizes openness in Silicon Valley visit
Medvedev was joined Wednesday by Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, CEO John Chambers announced his company would fund a $1 billion initiative to drive entrepreneurship and innovation in Russia. Among other efforts, Cisco will commit an initial $100 million in venture capital and increase the number of Cisco networking academies in Russia to 300, teaching people how to work with the company’s equipment. Cisco also will establish an innovation and venture platform in Skolkovo, using the company’s equipment to transform it into an advanced, Internet-connected city.
……….
I think Cisco has similar investments in India China and other countries.
Below is an except from the UK Guardian.
………………
Medvedev’s delegation was due to meet Google’s chief executive, Eric Schmidt, today after the search engine boss agreed to join the board of Skolkovo. But industry observers noted that the Russian president had no plans to meet one of his country’s most successful emigres, the billionaire co-founder of Google, Sergey Brin. The Wall Street Journal noted that in a 2002 interview Brin had been scathing about the land of his ancestry, describing Russia as “Nigeria with snow”.
Medvedev’s Philosphy
Later that afternoon, he described an overview of his plans for Russia to an audience of hundreds at Stanford’s Dinkelspiel Auditorium. Reforming Russia’s education system, improving access to information and technology, and achieving stability for his country are among his top priorities, he said.
“Russia will do everything in its power to remain a predictable international partner,” he said.
In establishing his “Russian Silicon Valley,” Medvedev said that money and the government can help if they are used properly, but innovation needs to come from an individual “state of mind.”
“In Russia, our hope is that government will do something, but self-realization is a state of spirit, if a person is ready to do it, if he has will,” he said. “That’s why we have to avoid paternalism.”
The visit wasn’t all about technology and innovation, though: Medvedev did answer questions about his country’s military conflict with Georgia, while roughly 20 protestors outside waved Georgian flags and carried signs with slogans reading “Russian aggression out of Georgia” and “Stop ethnic cleansing of Georgians.”
Medvedev said during his speech that Russia is not to blame for the “dramatically bad” relations between the two countries. Russia “defended its citizens, its interests,” he said, and the conflict won’t be resolved until Georgia has a new leader.
Concluding his speech, Medvedev said he was “inspired” by what he saw in Silicon Valley.
“It is, indeed, very impressive. It can impress even a president,” he said. “In a way, I’m sort of jealous of all of you present here. You have an opportunity to be creative, to teach, to make money, to do something you love, and quickly see your work yielding fruit. What is it, if not happiness?”
Charles @ 15: … describing Russia as “Nigeria with snow”.
Well, that’s unfair. Russia has been a uniquely mixed up land for centuries if not millenia, but nobody is rushing to open engineering centers in Lagos.
Get them, but don’t forget American academia has been soviet infiltrated since Stalin. Just look at Climategate and Toyotagate. We need for-profit universities and to apply Sarbanes Oxley to all nonprofits. If you weren’t such baby killing, vermin snuggling perverts you wouldn’t be driving up our health costs, then collecting disability for your commie nutty organizing dementia. Your passive aggressive labor unions grab our guns, cars (congestion pricing), balls (SONDA), wallets, and homes but we will grab your throats and dang you from trailer bone tolls. All the homeless are drugged out hippies. Lynch soviet wealth fund abetting aghadhimmic peakies when oil plummets! Parasites complain about salaries but pig out with benefits. Global warming is a grant grubbing extortion racket. Urban sprawl annoys terrorists. Hazards and pollution stem mostly from mandates. Aqua volte! Bring back HUAC!
#15,17–Back when I was doing Soviet studies, we called it “Nigeria with the atom bomb.”
Well there is something, ummm, “admirable” about one of the spies at least.
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/sexy_russian_spy_anna_chapman_2Zmmc1rSqu2H71x3v7BibM?photo_num=1
17. Josh
but nobody is rushing to open engineering centers in Lagos.
………
But they are doing a lot more drilling there. in 2002 Russia was a two trick pony. They had oil and gas exports to europe and military exports to china. The military exports to china has collapsed. The chinese have eaten russia’s lunch. oil/gas related exports have likely peaked. because of the huge build out of gas reserves –byo technological innovation–around the world–the role of natural gas as a political tool has been eclipsed.
There has been a contingent in Moscow for some years that has advocated that the Russians diversify. Looks like they finally got their hearing.
That said, Cisco has actually pledged more than the Russian government has to the new technology center.
The Russian government for their part are looking for military tech transfers from the israelis (uavs) and french(frigates I believe).
The Russian government for their part are looking for military tech transfers from the israelis (uavs) and french(frigates I believe). –pointed, of course, toward deterring possible invasions from the other planets in the solar system.
Charles @ 21
I’d be surprised if there was much technology transfer from Israel to Russia. A few model airplanes hardly counts. Even the French frigates (or whatever) is a simple make versus buy decision.
–
Meanwhile, the stock market is looking grim. I think the PPT, for various reasons, is curtailing activity and feeling for a more natural support level … which may be very low indeed. Hold onto your wigs and keys.
Mistral amphibious assault ships, where better to buy amphibian ships than France?
On the lagos thing..
For those of you who like Russians more than you like Texans for example–it looks like the Russians want to be more like the Texans who have transitioned away from being an ag/oil based economy–to one with very diversified portfolio of business–with a strong high tech component centered around austin. Another ag/oil based state with a very diversified economy is california. Texas is considered to be governed well, whereas California is considered to be governed poorly. I don’t think the Russians want to go the way of California–though they do like silicon valley.
j/24; where better to buy amphibian ships than France? –josh, you have my deepest sympathies. i understand –there’s nothing you can DO about it –
meanwhile, back at the tranch:
ETFs For Capitalist Russia
TheStreet.com – Don Dion – 22 minutes ago
NEW YORK (TheStreet) — During Russian President Dmitry Medvedev ‘s visit to the US last week, among other objectives, he presented the concept of Russia as a modernizing country worthy of increased foreign …
Medvedev says Russia must gradually end anti-crisis measures RIA Novosti
What the Russian Spy Story Tells Us FOXNews
Reuters (press release) – Global Security Newswire – Telegraph.co.uk – CBS News
all 191 news articles »Email this story
(copy/paste off Google news)
Wouldn’t it be amazing, to see the new borderless cultures, the global corporations, burn, bury, splinter the marxist whipping post and really deliver —what –rising global liberty and prosperity, Part II, this time without the ennervating leftist drag?
ironically to say the least, this would be attributable to the Obama phenomenon –its example-of-damage-done-by-marxism only visible to the world in the well-lit American frame –from high horse to dead horse in three easy years.
What a nail in that leftist coffin –and probably the only route to true success still open to this admin –if it can figure out how to pivot and claim it.
c/25; I don’t think the Russians want to go the way of California–though they do like silicon valley –Russia’s old stomping grounds –up until they sold it to us in 1867 (because they had figured out –this was still the “Great Game” Crimean War era –the Brits (staging from British Columbia) were gonna take it anyway so Russia may as well get some $$$ for it).
The furthest south large colonial trading post –in a line from Alaska to California –was just north of Frisco on the Russian River –which they shared, wildly enough, with the Pomo Indians.
Russians –i know this from Russian students at Univ of Texas –believe (have been taught) that the czar thought he was merely granting a sort of crown lease, that when the Brit pressure ended he could buy it all back. If we keep electing democrats, we’ll probably get an offer we can’t refuse, sooner or later.
Charles @ 11:
Where were you in ’08? Did you miss it? The coup I mean? This thing is “done and dusted” as Mike_W suggests above. They are just picking over the leavings of the corpse.
The real question is why is there the “…eager participation of Schwarzenegger and Obama in exporting U.S. technological capabilities..”? Can you say sleepers?
I am with Subotai, you expect real elections this fall? They will probably resemble those in Russia more than those good old US scrapes.
Charles I spent the last twenty minutes reading through this search:
This is big and it seems that most don’t even know about it. Money talks I guess but there seems to be not much bullshit to walk through concerning this. It appears that multiple High Tech Corporations from various countries are jumping on board, and that is just the visible participants. Who knows who else is on board?
Wheels within Wheels…
Papa Ray
P.S Austin is already overrun by liberals and other international idiots and it is far past saving execpt by the use of tar or worse.
OH…I’m with Subotai also. The elections coming up will be more crooked than the Afghanistan or Iranian elections.
“Even the French frigates (or whatever) is a simple make versus buy decision.”
Which may not even be the case, since Medvedev has said at least twice now that i’ve seen that he doesn’t even want the ships unless the French also sell the electronics/comm gear that includes NATO hardware with which Russia could hear all its enemy’s chatter.
Probably they just want that gear; they obviously don’t just want the hull. They probably already have a Mistral, they just don’t have a CNN.
I don’t actually *know* squat about Russia, but just judging from news and trends, I’d guess that Marxism is about as important today in Russia as antidisestablishmentarianism is in the US. The oligarchs run the place, with the central government mediating, sort of.
In fact, as long as Obasmus The Glorious regime is in power, Marxism is probably more in fashion here in the US of A.
Let’s see…Obama knew about the “ring,” probably since his first briefing after the election. It’s not like this activity was discovered by Holder and crew; they took over an ongoing investigation.
Yet Obama’s made concessions, accommodations, etc. to the Russians, fully aware of their active intent to subvert/destroy US.
“Obama was not pleased at the timing”? Clearly the Pres could have ordered Holder to delay the takedown until after the Puppet’s visit. Why couldn’t he? What forced the arrests? Did someone in the Administration inform the cellmembers of the covert surveilance and the evidence arrayed against them?
PS…I think it was something like “upon learning of the Op, the Administration ordered the operation terminated” and the remaining patriots in the FBI threatened to go public, if they weren’t allowed to roll up the cell.
I just heard on FoxNews that the FBI investigation was conducted “entirely outside the DoJ.”
“…they communicated via a mobile wi-fi router…”
So that’s why they need more broadband!!! For the spies and ideological subversives!
What about all the ops they planted in the White House?
The damage the Russians and the Left have done is severe, maybe too severe. I remember after in the run up to the war talking with educated liberals who were angry at GWB for suggesting that a) we could not allow murderous regimes or individuals to slaughter thousands, and b) if such regimes could not be controlled by diplomacy, then preemptive attack was reasonable to defend our nation. Their anger was at the idea that GWB had a special requirement as head of state to defend its citizens before defending others–for them, the dead of other countries was equal to our own dead, and GWB was a monster for suggesting otherwise. The idea that the nation-state, that citizenry mattered, had ceased to exist for them.
It is possible that you can’t say when influence is traitorous if we’ve lost the ability to think or know what is in our interest, if you can’t even define “us” let alone “us against them”.
Many seem to think that this is amusing, this roundup, as if Russia is powerless. But the FSB never ceased seeing the US as “them”, and Putin assuredly has used militant islam to keep us busy, and has used militant islam to manufacture war at home. We are deep in their clutches.
To Wretchard’s q, there is of course a more practical answer–these regimes use influence to expand their sphere of murder, genocide, imprisonment of innocent, theft, and other terrible atrocities. Even our elites who believe in post-american world order haven’t quite worked up to that level. They are just stuck at the graft/corruption level, and haven’t yet graduated to wholesale murder like Putin or the monster from Romania.
In astronomy, our calculations indicate that only about 4% of the known universe is visible to observation by our telescopes and instruments – 96% is hidden in what we are calling ‘dark matter’ and ‘dark energy’.
In geopolitics, the observable ratio is surely no higher – more likely it is several orders of magnitude lower. Nature merely hides its secrets from us – it doesn’t explicitly deceive. In geopolitical games, on the other hand, deceptions are standard. Most that we “observe” is pure theater – the chess game on table is for show, the real game is played below the table.
With this in mind, this story raises at least 3 issues.
First, note the nature and timing of the story – biggest bust of Russian spies in decades – immediately following what had been reported as an upbeat and successful meeting between Obama and Medvedev. A story this big would never be released by the Justice Department without the express permission of the White House. If arrests had to be made to prevent subjects from fleeing, they could have been made on charges (money laundering, etc.) that didn’t require the immediate public revelation of espionage. So we can infer that a diplomatic purpose is being served.
My guess, and its only a guess, is that release of this story at this time indicates that the administration has decided that its efforts so far at ‘reset’ with Russia have failed – that the outcomes of the private meetings were the very opposite of the upbeat descriptions fed to the media. If so, release of this story may be the first move in the ‘post-reset’ game.
Second, the Russians may be having trouble in adjusting to the post-Soviet world. One of the more interesting facts that came to light when the KGB files were opened after 1991 was that the Soviets rarely paid their spies. Ideology, not money, was the motivation. The obviously corrupt oligarchy now running Russia may be finding that they have to develop their spies the old fashioned way and they may be out of practice.
Third: “This espionage case raises the question: if the behavior of Russian agents is outwardly no different from people who are practicing the “highest form of patriotism” what is the difference between the two?”
Inside information about the vulnerabilities, secrets, private wants and needs, strengths and weaknesses etc. of political figures is of high value to everyone engaged in serious policy games – domestic and foreign. Knowing the hidden character and personal secrets of the individual across the table can be vitally important in tough negotiations. So, these spies were likely tasked to seek deeper, more secret information about character and vulnerabilities than do most policy wonks, journalists, lobbyists and activists.
geoffgo@33. Don’t believe everything you hear. This is the kind of story that is told between the lines – it may turn out to be very different from what it appears to be on its face.
“Many seem to think that this is amusing, this roundup, as if Russia is powerless.”
Isn’t this interesting? Russia has an interesting habit of eliciting absolutely bizarre intellectual and moral reactions from people – not least of those being that Russia is invisible. Or if not invisible, just a joke – “who thinks espionage and illegals and that nonsense has any effect on anything anyway?” And if not a joke, then just a bunch of backwards incompetents running around out there in their gigantic country in Asia with all their hot women and broken faucets and brutal vodka and snow n shit.
How could such a phenomenon *not* be your favorite subject!? It’s like a gigantic vampire kingdom exuding Jedi mind tricks – in real time, right in front of you! come on now if you can’t appreciate that your aesthetic appreciator is flat-out broken. everything else is f_cking boring by comparison.
“Their anger was at the idea that GWB had a special requirement as head of state to defend its citizens before defending others–for them, the dead of other countries was equal to our own dead, and GWB was a monster for suggesting otherwise. ”
I haven’t seen them pushing for an intervention elsewhere, so I must infer that they don’t really believe that people should be defended anywhere.
The NYT editorial board is pissed because they think these sleepers were doing a better job than they at harming US interests.
I look at this as just a matter of quality assurance. There are plenty of disloyal Americans throughout academia and government and business, happy to do what this ring was charged with, but as anyone who has ever dealt with outsourcing can tell you, if you want to control the quality you have to bring key functions in-house.
““Many seem to think that this is amusing, this roundup, as if Russia is powerless.”
Dan “Isn’t this interesting? Russia has an interesting habit of eliciting absolutely bizarre intellectual and moral reactions from people – not least of those being that Russia is invisible. Or if not invisible, just a joke – “who thinks espionage and illegals and that nonsense has any effect on anything anyway?” And if not a joke, then just a bunch of backwards incompetents running around out there in their gigantic country in Asia with all their hot women and broken faucets and brutal vodka and snow n shit.”
“How could such a phenomenon *not* be your favorite subject!? It’s like a gigantic vampire kingdom exuding Jedi mind tricks – in real time, right in front of you! come on now if you can’t appreciate that your aesthetic appreciator is flat-out broken. everything else is f_cking boring by comparison.”
Indeed, from childhood when I saw the vast USSR on the globe like America’s bigger evil twin spanning Eurasia, I was hooked.
I’m interested in Marie Claude’s take on this. The French attitude is the Americans engage in commercial espionage all the time, so why shouldn’t they? And the Russian attitude is if America wants to flood the former CIS with NGO do-gooders and fund Russian liberasts who trash their country non-stop, why not mirror image what they’re doing? Igor Panarin was just a long overdue retaliation for Paul Goble.
http://www.sublimeoblivion.com/2010/03/25/paul-goble-propagandist/
http://www.sublimeoblivion.com/2010/04/24/on-liberasts-and-liberasty/
Speaking of this particular blogger, are they going to arrest Mark Adomanis next? After all he worked for a Taibbi Law Firm and Matt Taibbi was at eXile for years in Moscow. Gubm’t Sachs must be getting paranoid that they have some enemies in Russia. Payback time for those sleazy kopeks on the dollar Soros and co ‘privatization’ deals in the 90s…and I would add AlGore to the list too since the ClimateGate folks blamed Russia (in the UK Telegraph, where else?) last year for leaking their internal emails. So much for the notion that Russia as the world’s biggest carbon sink with credits based on 1990 levels would lap the AGW stuff up.
Again it is the young turks in their 20s who are the most willing to tell the West where to get off and the middle aged generation that wants the more moderate Medvedev course of ‘let’s just be nice and buy all the technology/nice things we can get from them’. I imagine it is similar in Turkey. When our oligarchs get bailed out it makes it very hard to yammer on about Kremlin state capitalism when we have Obama corporatism here.
I don’t think it’s at all amusting, but I must admit I just keep hoping the red-headed sleeper (Chapman?) will call me so I can give her the urgent strategic bar and mexican restaurant rundown for Houston, Texas. Maybe she’ll meet me wearing a short black number.
More seriously, looks like the SVR may be smarter than the old KGB. Getting agents of influence into think tanks, newspapers, NGO’s and other such things is probably more profitable long run than traditional espionage. I think, however, it only makes sense if the SVR is dealing in bulk. You would want a bunch of easily replacable sleepers — for every one the FBI catches, how many others are left? If the spy/agent of influence/fellow traveller or whatever can speak English, are reasonably good looking, or can hand out cash and are willing to take orders from Moscow Center, Moscow’s in business.
SA @ 37: … biggest bust of Russian spies in decades …
Spies? Unregistered foreign agents. If they arrested every Mexican driving around Los Angeles without registration, … whatever.
So maybe they delayed the arrest of these malefactors until after the Medvedev visit. They should have registered and started a Friends of Russia group on Facebook. I’m all broken up. Think what you want of their motives, it would have had about the same effectiveness. I agree with wretchard’s screed at … er, last thread, #16, about the defining down of treason, and yet, in our open society, I don’t think we have a single law that these guys have yet broken – except for registration.
Of course, this is all pending any further revelations that there actually was any spying involved.
Russia has an interesting habit of eliciting absolutely bizarre intellectual and moral reactions from people – not least of those being that Russia is invisible. Or if not invisible, just a joke.
This is a direct result of the uber-successful near 100 year mindwash we’ve been undergoing. Just like the old saying “the devil’s greatest trick is to make you believe he doesn’t exist,” so too the Commies succeeded in their psyops war in making most Americans think Communists don’t exist. Anyone who goes around talking about “Communists” is pretty much labeled a crank by 90% of the population. You might as well talk about the Boogie Man or your Invisible Friend Hal.
It doesn’t surprise me at all that people’s reactions to this is “ho hum… but hey, that chick is hot!”
Spying? Spying by who? Communists? There’s no such thing. And spying against what? Against the nation? There is no nation. All these are mere constructs of the white male power hegemony to keep us afraid and funding tanks and bombs and prisons. God, ain’t you people been to college?
On the other hand, as long as Germany can win the World Cup, what do I care?
Oh, and speaking of hot female spies, when is Whiskey going to tell us she was another white woman going after bad boys? (And very likely true in this case.)
For that matter, what the heck’s happened to Whiskey?
Whiskey answered the Craigslist ad for Western males seeking freedom and love in capitalist Russia, instead of staying in SoCal bitching about the Kardashians…
And in response to one comment above, I would agree that China and Mexico pose a far greater threat to American security and sovereignty than Russia.
For that matter, what the heck’s happened to Whiskey?
I asked Whiskey to stop commenting in response to a number of complaints.
I asked Whiskey to stop commenting in response to a number of complaints.
Bummer.
Always the perfect indicator of the transi urban Left’s take on things, New York magazine’s take on this case: yeah, it’s a big joke.
http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2010/06/russia_to_us_how_dare_you_bust.html
It would be fun and easy to provide Russia with an attitude adjustment. Just fly a B-2 over to drop leaflets. Each one would say, “I am NOT a Nuclear weapon.” The Russians would figure it out quick enough, Russia being to paranoia what Madison Ave is to advertising.
“One may wonder why these investments were not directed toward U.S. technological ventures, especially during the current recession/depression?”
Why? The Marxists in power are quite happy with the current economic situation. Even today’s mini-collapse suits their purpose. The Marxist philosophy requires social collapse as a predecessor to revolution and replacement of the old system with the new, Socialist one. Socialism is the 2nd step toward Communism, in theory. In reality it is the first step toward dictatorship.
So this administration WANTS a civil war. They think they can win it. That is based on the fact they they (Marxists) have won most of them in the past. It is notable that the losses by Marxism have been in places where either the USA ( Greece or the Philippines ) or the UK ( Indonesia ) has fought against the Marxists. That is why I don’t think they will win.
I hope they rethink the issue, especially in light of the USSC’s most recent ruling on the 2nd amendment. A Marxist revolution stands no chance against an armed population. In the past they have always worked against unarmed populations. Citizens whose choice was go along or be gunned down.
I do understand about Stalin’s comment that it is who counts the votes that matters. I disagree. At least in America. We are we past the purple ink stage here. While some fraud is inevitable and happens every election, seldom is it enough to make the difference. In 08, there was rampant voting fraud. As great as any since the mid 19th century. It didn’t matter. Remove the states where voting fraud made the difference from Obama’s side to McCain’s and McCain still gets his ass whooped.
What I’m doing this election is hooking up my lap top with a video cam and recording everyone that enters and leaves the polling station. My neighbor the local police Chief thinks it is a fine idea. He has promised to have an officer there to ‘protect’ the polls. Any voter that is on video as having been there twice will be asked why. If his answer doesn’t make the officer happy, then he gets to spend the next 72 hours in jail while the police see if he is on the up and up. City attorney says it’s legal, so long as he has already voted. That means as long as he has reported in and had his name removed from the poll list to the voted list. The name on his ID will be the one checked. If he has more then 1 ID, that is a crime right there and 72 hours becomes a fond memory.
51. Rosinante
The thing to watch out for is not the same person voting in a given polling place twice — it’s the bus/van full of people who vote in Place A, then drive to Place B, etc, saying they are whoever is registered but hasn’t voted (or has moved, died, etc)
1. fonman
The only time I ever thought of the possibility that one of our leaders had in their intent a plan to hurt their own country was in Clinton’s releasing rocket and WP30 tech to the Chinese. Couple that with Obama’s penchant to ignore everything around him with the intent of turning our world upside down.
GW had his own curious policy with respect to the border and Jimmy Carter, when I was in the Persian Gulf, just seemed incompetent.
Obama is Carter cubed, but with a touch of something else and an answer to my unease:
Aristotle:
Fear is pain arising from the anticipation of evil.
Charles (#11): “One may wonder why these investments were not directed toward U.S. technological ventures, especially during the current recession/depression?”
Cost/benefit. Russia seems to have some advanced and relatively cheap technological manpower, and when operating in Russia, you needn’t deal with many of the state-imposed burdens that we are all familiar with. Granted, whether this is wise in the long-term is another question. And by the way, I see no need to posit any nefarious motives behind this Russian initiative. [I am not saying that Charles is.]
Peter (#40): “The NYT editorial board is pissed because they think these sleepers were doing a better job than they at harming US interests.”
As I said in a previous comment, based on the information released thus far, it’s not even close: the NYT has revealed significantly more sensitive information.
Rosinante (#51): “It would be fun and easy to provide Russia with an attitude adjustment. Just fly a B-2 over to drop leaflets. Each one would say, ‘I am NOT a Nuclear weapon.’”
Ceci n’est pas une bombe atomique.
wretch:
Gave in to the forces of PC eh? Sad day that.
To you complainers – harden the eff up. Nancy-boys or girls.
Damn, I’m going to miss Whiskey.
O/T
Good description of what is happening to our freedom.
Operating Theater
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/SendMail.aspx?print=print&type=5&item=7036
The people who complained about Whiskey’s comments should out themselves and explain how and why God made them as the arbiters of this public forum.
Anybody not willing to do that is a moral coward.
Re whiskey, it’ll be easy to flog wretchard on the action, but he can’t very well produce a mainstream blog impact without a quick hand on “hate speech” and i suppose that whiskey’s commentary could be stretched streeeetched toward the outer margin of that definition. Maybe he ought to start commenting again, but begin every sentence with, “Of course I’d NEVER say…”
***
PB is right –complainants ought to do the complaining in the comments, not by haranguing the host –esp considering there’s no cash buy-in to Belmont, no need to ask for a refund, and the insulted and outraged can simply not read whatever they don’t want to read.
***
mr X, those NGOs are so left-wing in their USA iterations, i’d have thought the USA desk at KGB HQ would love ‘em dearly. i’d have thought that whatever complaints that desk would push out into the meme-stream re Soros would just be to lend cover to a team charged with attacking the west via the currencies.
***
Bill Clinton is in Russia visiting. The Russian foreign ministry late today said that yes, some of the arrested are Russian citizens, but “…none of them were working against American interests”.
Heh. Where to start? Which American interests? Which America? Clinton’s?
***
back to Mr X, the blog you pointed out –the Russian nationalist-cum-xenophobe,
http://mat-rodina.blogspot.com/2010/01/ngos-agents-of-us-empire.html
is pretty upset over the west trying to re-write WWII history. but that issue is being reported differently in say, Telegraph:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/simonheffer/5462029/Russia-wheels-out-the-evil-weapon-of-history.html
Wonder which is true?
48. wretchard
Too bad.
Now there’s two (five?) opposite complaints.
Yuk.
I have lurked for a number of years here at the BC without comment. I’m speaking up now to say I’m shocked. Muzzling Whiskey for politely (and doggedly) expressing a view that rubbed some the wrong way is not the sort of thing I thought this forum stood for.
The thing about Whiskey’s commentary, it’s not a simple assertion of prejudice –it’s high-quality academic sociology, of a subject matter simply absent in the lit, not to mention the pedagogy, horrors!
Of course, i’m sure i missed plenty of his stuff, in one or more of my longueurs from time to time. but i never read anything of his that couldn’t be defended.
I never contacted wretchard regarding whiskey, but I’ll say that he often did more than just be un-PC and rub people the wrong way. I unreservedly support people’s right to be highly offensive, but wretchard is under no obligation to provide a platform for any of us, especially if we are undermining the purpose of his blog. After all, I don’t recall God making any of the rest of us arbiters of this blog.
(And here I had thought that whiskey was part of that Russian spy ring, which he joined in order to gain refuge in Russia, a la Mr X #47.)
Mr. X (#47): “Whiskey answered the Craigslist ad for Western males seeking freedom and love in capitalist Russia, instead of staying in SoCal bitching about the Kardashians”
Ah yes, Kim Kardashian, whose CRIMINAL ARMENIAN GRANDPARENTS committed genocide against the poor Turks, aided and abetted by Russia, no doubt.
[/hum]
Wretchard @ 48: “I asked Whiskey to stop commenting in response to a number of complaints.”
Did those complaints happen to begin with the words J’accuse …?
Yes, Whiskey could be a bit of a one note samba at times, but I’m with Peter Boston @ 58. Those who complained should self-identify and prepare to lead a good old-fashioned Chinese self-criticism session, followed by no more than 10 years working in the rice paddies.
Seriously, none of us have to read posts by known quantities we have weighed in the balance and found wanting. There are those such as L3 and Subotai whose posts I always read. There are others whose posts I routinely skip. If someone did not like Whiskey’s posts, then just skip them.
Skipping is easier than complaining. More satisfying too!
It never occurred to me to complain about Whiskey but if I had it would have been this: no matter what the topic, he seemed to post in the same monotonous vein, at excruciating length, in what seemed to me to be a repetitive tirade. Worse than offensive or stalwart, it was boring.
Just my opinion, I may be wrong (thank you, Dennis) since after a fairly short time I would just scroll through and go to the next BC-er.
My first thought when hearing of the arrests was “Why now?” and “Why so close to Medvedev’s visit?” In reading the Complaints (admittedly a quick scan), I’m struck by a couple of observations. One, it takes time to write up these Complaints and go thru an approval process before filing same – how soon before Medvedev’s visit were these prepared? The charges involving Russian officials (diplomatic or not) – the withholding of names, such as the financier and the (retired?) top national security person. Without being able to put my finger on it, there is something slapdash about the writing of the Complaints – based on 25 years of civil defense law. Someone in this post or earlier said this was theatre – that we are seeing only a piece/layer of the Game. It is my belief this (the arrests and filings of the Complaints) would not have been done without the knowledge of the State Department, the Executive Branch, etc.
Re: Whiskey.
I quit reading his rants. But they were full of passion. Bob said, very correctly. “but wretchard is under no obligation to provide a platform for any of us”
It is Wretchard’s house and we should honor it.
Now, about that “Marie Claude” broad…
I have looked at whiskey blog – it has not been updated for some time – hope that he is OK.
uh, Mr X
I haven’t yet read the whole thread and comments, though, one can question the FBI services ability when we see, that this little girl is considered as dangerous too:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRYfXKUsrNk&feature=player_embedded
Also:
“The memo is an recipe for the targeted manipulation of public opinion in two
NATO ally countries, written by the CIA. It is classified as Confidential / No Foreign Nationals
This classified CIA analysis from March, outlines possible PR-strategies to shore up public support in Germany and France for a continued war in Afghanistan. After the Dutch government fell on the issue of dutch troops in Afghanistan last month, the CIA became worried that similar events could happen in the countries that post the
third and fourth largest troop contingents to the ISAF-mission. The proposed PR strategies focus on pressure points that have been identified within these countries. For France it is the sympathy of the public for Afghan refugees
and women. For Germany it is the fear of the consequences of defeat (drugs, more refugees, terrorism) as well as for Germany’s standing in the NATO.”
http://file.wikileaks.org/file/cia-afghanistan.pdf
So, who tries to influence who ? In the exemple, it’s not France, nor Germany.
I hope that America isn’t becoming paranoid like Iran, that arrested a young french girl (who was an assistant lecturer in French at the university of Ispahan) when she went to see the riots with her comrads (though without participying in them), then accused of being a spy !
Back to the Russians. This still does not make sense!
OK – preparing Russians to pass themselves off as Americans is at least a decade long task. The Russian spy operation had to start in the Clinton Administration if not earlier. Maybe bureaucratic inertia in Moscow kept the sleeper agent program going long after the Democrats had rendered it unnecessary.
But why would the US publicly roll up the cells now? The only reasonable explanation on the table is that this is part of proving to American citizens that Obama is “tough”. First he fires the general leading his war. Now he rounds up Russian spies before they can infiltrate the Tea Parties. One tough hombre, as the new voters pouring over the southern border might say.
Can you imagine the yucking it up that happened at the Obama/Medvedev meeting when Obama mentioned what he was going to do! Not to worry; the Russians will be home in time for the New Year celebrations.
I will be the first to say that Whiskey was intellectually sharp and made a good argument. I am putting his site on the blogroll (http://whiskeys-place.blogspot.com) now because at all events those who want to read him should. But you can’t please everybody. Inevitably some smart people are going to cause other smart people to get upset. In this case enough took umbrage at Whiskey openly and privately for me to make the decision to ask him to desist, which he quite gallantly consented to. You will recall some people argued with him openly. Others worried about him in private. They can identify themselves if they like, but I can’t hide behind them because ultimately the choice and/or screwup is mine. That’s about all I can do.
I too will miss Whiskey. As I stated many times, I don’t agree with him all the time, but he sure makes me think. I will make a wild donkey’s guess that the complainants were not all fellow BCers, but Pajama Media staff/management/whatever. Just my $0.02. Conservatives are getting too darn conservative these days.
However, in a very real sense, Wretchard is the bartender here and he gets to pour the shots and ring the bell.
Salud Whiskey.
herb @ 68 said:
“Re: Whiskey. I quit reading his rants. But they were full of passion…. It is Wretchard’s house and we should honor it.”
I’m with Herb. I stopped reading Whiskey’s rants but never complained about him. Whiskey did add some “color” to Belmont Club. However Herb is correct that this is Wretchard’s house and we should honor it.
programme (above) = a very rapidly typing programmer
Re: Whiskey again, they’re a lot of regulars that I just scroll through(marie claude, terista etc.), I don’t bitch about them. Why can’t they do the same?
wretchard –you can’t win –it’s like being president of a neighborhood association where the bylaws call for properties to be “maintained tastefully”. A 1978 Ford pickup on cinder blocks with a rusty refrigerator in the back is my front yard art project but somebody else’s neighborhood eyesore –
Kinuachdrach (#65):
Given the spiritual kinship between whiskey and the targets of the original J’accuse, that would be highly fitting.
Or is that not what you meant?
programmer (#73):
Kudos on the alcohol analogy.
Returning to the spy story, am I the only one to find it uninteresting (so far)? The only prism which caught my interest was wretchard’s musings in the last paragraph.
Slightly off topic, but…
One of the Russian agents caught my eye, not the redhead, but the writer for El Diario, Vicky Pelaez. Mostly because Breitbart is now offering 100k for the complete archive of JournoList, a mailing list put together by Ezra Klein of 400 leftist journalist, bloggers, and people of influence.
What if she was on the list? Wouldn’t it be exactly the kind of source this ring was put together to penetrate? Russia would know the mind of a vocal segment of the left, and by extension the MSM as well. Not to mention the ability to, subtly, shape narratives and plant ideas.
uh Josh and Buddy, still on the ol hoax ? yeah, of course, we furnished Saddam with WMD !
now see if you good fellah knew about that spy, who inspired Bush clique ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curveball_(informant)
looks like you weren’t able to evaluate men aimings
now, France has a tiny business rating with Russia, compared to yours and or german’s
ck,
funny, I never remarcked you too
uh Whiskey is a good read, when he doesn’t repeat himself. His vews on global policy and money are valuable
So much for Old Near Beer. Guess I’ll just have to settle for
putting X in his place for a while.
X, in spite of himself did manage to make one valid point;
Just couse Russians tend to have blond hair and blue eyes and other causacoid
features does N-O-T make them part of Western Civilization.
In fact, Russia is often defined by—-and even dominated by—–those who consider
the West their inherent and mortal enemy. They exhibit little or no desire to improve their own flawed set of folkways but do try to bleed our superior culture
so that we must necessarily become as nyee kultornee as they. This form of Russian
is but an envious parasite.
They continue their winsome ways at their own peril.
I admittedly have not read much of the sleeper transcripts, but from what I have seen I do not see much difference between those folks and Dick Durbin and John Kerry, just to name a few that are near the top of the political heap.
I have a new theory. The Rusky ops was a hamfisted faint to check the means and methods, and the will of the current administration. Overlooking this too would have been a coded message.
Whiskey-
Wretchard should put it to a democratic public vote.
I vote in favor of Whiskey’s 1st amendment right to speak and to be heard.
I will miss Whiskey, and I hope he starts blogging more at Whiskey’s Place. I found him less convincing on the woman question (100% accurate regarding a certain type of woman, but he thinks every woman is that type) and mostly correct on race issues. And he had the nerve to actually say what many people think but wouldn’t dare speak and in most venues simply can’t because of the reprisals they would face (free speech my pinky toe).
He was an eloquent writer as well, and I always enjoyed his robust prose.
I’m curious if the “complaints” were regarding the woman issue or the race issue, though I think I can guess the answer.
As for them Russkie spies, Michael Savage wondered today if the “timing” wasn’t just to divert attention from the Gulf spill and the Kagan hearings.
I’ve always wondered why Russia and America can’t just get along. You’d think they’d have enough in common, as (historically) white, Christian countries. Especially these days, as we both face threats from the Muslim world, not to mention China. I don’t give a hoot if they’re not a “democracy” or any of that jazz. But it seems odd and unfortunate that our interests can’t better align.
Dave @ 83: “Just couse Russians tend to have blond hair and blue eyes and other causacoid features does N-O-T make them part of Western Civilization.”
Marshall Poe published a short book back in 2003 called “The Russian Moment in World History”. Quite interesting. Tinfoil hats off — the Russian moment is long over.
Poe’s thesis was that Russia successfully did not fall victim to Western Civilization, aka European imperialism. When Europeans were colonizing far flung places — South America, North American, Africa, Asia — nearby Russia succeeded in holding off the blue-eyed devils. That is something which much older, more established cultures such as the Aztecs, Indians, and Chinese all failed to do.
Of course, the same factors which enabled the Russians to hold off their thrusting neighbors have since bedeviled Russian progress in other ways.
Kagan.
“I revere the military.”
When Senator Sessions (?) said she was removed from reality and recited all of her actions and arguments at Harvard – she did not even try to reconcile her two positions.
Well, at least on the clip on the evening news.
But since there’s no way *to* reconcile them, I must conclude, due to her new claim of reverence, that actually:
She nutz.
MC/81;
“Oil-for-Food” infesting the UN, and the Chirac bagman’s part in it, was no hoax. Even if you want to ignore the mountain of evidence that Saddam DID have WMD and got rid of them during the six months GWB dithered with UN before crossing the Iraq border with the invasion force. Remember, too, that the 2003 action was a Saddam-driven continuum of Saddam’s 1991 invasion and annexation of UN member Kuwait.
Without belaboring the well-known details, Saddam asked for what he got, don’t you really think?
Saddam didn’t need to invade Kuwait, and he didn’t need to ignore the peace treaty he made with the coalition following his ouster, and he didn’t need to perform nerve gas WMD genocide on the Kurds, nor murder wholesale lots of Shiites, during the interregnae between his expansionary attacks on Iran and his total-war attacks against his neighbors and then the blocking coalition –yes, USA-led, because someone had to — that finally –finally –formed in reaction to same.
Surely deep in your heart of hearts, MC, you realize that this whole thing of Russia blaming Georgia on Iraq and Kosovo, and so many on the left just repeating that “USA did wrong to Saddam”, is factually just plain wrong –not to mention breathtakingly unfair and ungrateful.
The world needed help with Saddam (even tho Oil-for-Food was furiously burying the truth) and someone finally DID the thing that the world needed doing. Unless you think the UN’s miserable dirty-cop scam was going to be a stable and long-lasting and decent way to build the future of the world.
re Whiskey, I like Whiskey, or Scotch, but in moderation, y’know? I can understand the request by whoever that he hold it back, and I can understand and respect his agreement to do so and to expand at length in his own forum.
I keep thinking I might do the same, of course, … but commenting on BC is much more lightweight than doing the work to make a respectable blog, and I do have other commitments … and a lazy nature …
Bob @ 78: “Given the spiritual kinship between whiskey and the targets of the original J’accuse, that would be highly fitting.”
Bob, I was not aware of Zola’s 1898 letter. I was recalling distant high school history lessons about the Madame Guillotine stage of the French Revolution, where the hapless now-Politically Incorrect victims would get the “J’accuse..” treatment before getting signed up for the instant weight reduction program. Just being accused was equivalent to being found guilty.
Not to say that Wikipedia might have missed something, but it would not be surprising if that was the reference Zola was making in the title of his letter.
what did I say that got my name on MC’s comment that I can’t even parse?
Hey Saddam had a run of bad luck, didn’t he. I mean, Iran and we’re his good buddies and then April Glaspe, and then George HW Bush and his son before Congress for the S&L debacle, and suddenly we’re shooting up the Iraqi army for the good of … Kuwait? Seriously? And then he survived, when a more modest guy could have departed for Switzerland and obscurity … only to be in the crosshairs and looking like an a**hole just when Osama bin Laden pisses us off bigtime and we need a big, fat target, and George Dubya Bush declines to nuke Riyadh, and who was next on the list? Poor Saddam was just snakebit.
Not that he didn’t deserve it all ten times over, but as Gandalf said, … y’all know.
When the question: ‘whose side are you on?’ ceases to be a legitimate test of patriotism, how is treachery defined?
We’re not supposed to ask that question with regard to the country anymore, the illustrious brains in academia, politics and media – STOP LAUGHING – having convinced many people that there are just too many nuances, subtleties, emanations and penumbras of the words “side,” “whose” “you” and “are,” for that question to ever be answered. “On” is quite a prepositional beast, too.
And yet no one, the illustrious brains included, seems to have a problem asking that question on just about any other level and in every other context.
Whose side was Dave Weigel on? Does it matter? Of course.
People who demand loyalty from their friends and family and yet deny that a country, as expressed in the majority of its citizens, can also rightfully demand loyalty, are swimming against the tide of human nature. To be sure, they have gotten away with this for a long time, in part because they are sophists and in part because a lot of Americans have been indifferent to charges of treason, seeing that as some relic of a bygone era, perhaps feeling that the U.S. was rich enough & strong enough to afford not to have to bother about loyalty questions anymore.
It’s just that loyalty plays a key role in the survival of the pack. And when concerns about survival resurface, so will the loyalty questions.
Re: Whiskey, I was/am not one of his fans. Every criticism I had was made in the open for everyone to read, or not, acc. to their individual inclinations. Wretchard is a magnificent and generous host of a magnificent blog so I have never presumed to tell him who I think should or should not be allowed to comment here. I don’t even suggest topics for largely the same reason — W. does the heavy lifting, and I greatly appreciate his efforts and his judgment. No complaints whatsoever. Thanks, Wretchard. Sincerely.
Buddy, I don’t care of Saddam, he was an evil man, not only him, unfortunately, but he got your support to make war against Iran. Who supplied the toxic gaz ? some sources say it was Germany, and that a enterprise from your country provided the infrastures too. I can’t forget all the lies that some of your good and interested people invented for demonizing us, (don’t ya think they aren’t able? see my above link on CIA aims in our countries) besides it’s the way your State department usely does, when some countries don’t want to comply.
Be reassured, Sarkozy is on your line, some US lobbies helped him to win the elections.
I’m not contesting his position, like Peterike, I think that our place is with the western world.
A 1978 Ford pickup on cinder blocks with a rusty refrigerator in the back is my front yard art project but somebody else’s neighborhood eyesore –
Buddy, I think I have the perfect window dressing for you. How’s about a leg lamp? Fishnet stocking included!
“Zola was making in the title of his letter”.
it was in the first page of a paper “L’Aurore”
MC, feel free to hurl those taunts at the US the moment you feel that France is clean. Khomeini and Arafat seemed to enjoy hanging out in Paris; can’t say that about any place in the US.
Wretchard, sorry you were pinched on Whiskey. I too had moments where I passed over his comments, but I agree that many of them were well thought out. You run a great place here that attracts a wide variety of thoughtful people; thank you for that.
77. buddy larsen
It’s my yard dammit and I just happen to like pink flamingos in my front yard. 56 of ‘em. It’s well…a touch of home, don’t ya know!
What you have there me lads is the accumulation of enough irony to build two, maybe three fine fine fine steam locomotives.
It has been my contention that a post war prerequisite to enable the current malaise to take hold has been the conditioning of men to refrain from being seen to spontaneously break into song for its own simple pleasure.
Hit it boys.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46EXY4oP1Do
Kinuachdrach (#88, #92):
Regarding “J’accuse”, I now understand your previous comment (#65). Nonetheless, “J’accuse” is primarily associated with Zola/Dreyfus, and I must say that I am not familiar with any guillotine association. Can anyone provide me with any references? Marie-Claude?
Regarding Marshall Poe’s thesis, I’ll try to have a look some day, but his thesis (as you describe it) seems too original. Characterizing Russia not as a (marginally) European colonist/imperialist state, but as an “Other” strikes me as quite the stretch.
My disagreements with Whiskey were a matter of public record. There are three people I have said abused the forum over the last several years. Others may on occasion be disagreeable or even offensive but they have not threatened the integrity of the blog as a forum, as this commentator with no administrative position sees it.
The first person I challenged was C-fud, who was a foaming antisemitic troll. It would shock me if anyone regrets his absence.
The second was more recent, a man of fine literary training and service to his nation who would inexplicably engage in ad hominem attacks on inoffensive members of our community, especially but not exclusively women. His identity being no secret I only do not use it in the hope that old wounds are not reopened. Not being medically qualified I can not offer a worthwhile opinion as to why he engaged in such apparent mood swings or otherwise unpredictably harmful behavior. His absence has encouraged others to speak but we have undoubtedly missed some trenchant observations. Personally I do wish him well.
Whiskey did not as a rule engage in personal abuse and did make an effort to not personally endorse the social consequences of his theories. On occasion he mentioned his charitable work and the frustrations he felt. My hope is that he devotes his considerable energies to posting on his blog, especially on economic topics. Perhaps if he does so he will rediscover his ability to contribute to building a community.
His biggest problems for this blog were fourfold.
1. He became repetitive so that he could have simple pasted links to one of maybe 3 narratives that were close to begin with and which would have covered 90% of his content,
2. He did introduce a small addition to his theme by adding to his gender based theory speculation as to the genetic as well as the social content of racial groups and the impact on creativity that included possible personal challenges to our host which if offered should be done soberly credibly and with the consent of the host so as to avoid hijacking the blog,
3. His lengthy posts were not cost free in that they occupied physical space and could have discouraged other commentators from either posting or prevented their being noticed as well as his imposing real costs on our host by consuming bandwidth.
4. The relentless negativity of his perspective was corrosive to the conversation as a social activity. No one needs Pollyanna but there is a limit on how often you can show up at a garden party waving a dead skunk and yelling “We are all doomed.”
If I ever post 5 nearly identical thousand word tributes to Max Weber in week then I hope that friendly messages will find me asking what my problem is. What we want to avoid, and what I think that Wretchard has gone to great lengths to avoid, is the self destructive banning regimen that consumed LGF. Where to draw the line is ultimately a political question and a matter of market management.
To be blogged under the title “The Forum.”
48, 72 wretchard
I’ve been wondering what happened to whiskey. I agreed with him more often than not, although he did get to be a like a broken record at times. It sounds like both you and he handled it pretty well. I will check out his blog.
(In stark contrast, another blog I’ve been frequenting recently banned a commenter for what I regard as very petty and personal reasons. And the aftermath of the banning was even worse. Lots of high-schoolish trash talking behind her back once she was out of the room. It disgusted me. I’m not sure whether or not I want to go back there.)
98. steeple
yeah, but at your famous politicians (Carter, Brezinsky) request !
for Arafat, he was washed byyour political elite in camp David, uh why would France deliberately contest a official policy designed by your country ? and plus, he was a Fatah politician, not that evil Hamas !
“Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery.” – Wilkins Micawber, “David Copperfield”
I think the key thing to remember about intelligence cases like this, and especially about subversion is that everything in life is a matter of a few percent. Most things in life are balanced pretty much on a knife’s edge, and a few percent one way or a few percent the other causes a major change. The media may be unimpressed with the goals of this organization, but that’s because they think only in terms of big changes happening with big forces (like stealing secret plans or “turning” generals and senators). This is about big changes happening using small forces aided by long levers. Once the balance is upset, it takes a lot of force to straighten it out again.
But in the end, I wish more people had read Mitrohkin, so that I could talk about these matters without sounding like a nut.
bw/96; oh, man! Ideal!
MC/95; i hear ya, m’dear –yes there’s always complicated doings, and half the time a person’s own country is going against his/her own personal feelings –it’s just that proportion and context need allusion, in any debate on detailia.
Something’s wrong with the newspaper if the front page headline screams “LOCAL WOMAN’S VACATION RUINED” and then down at the bottom of page 14 whispers ‘Indian ocean tsunami kills 250,000′.
We have over 105,000 comments in this version of the Belmont Club alone. We have literally thousands of commenters. In experimenting with the Tocque we discovered that some people have posted under multiple names, lost their names and recovered again (e.g. Buddy, Larsen, Luddy Barsen). Some commenters have actually died. Then there are the lurkers some of whom are quite eminent and by that I mean people who’ve been in headlines frequently.
So the community is pretty big. As big as a small newspaper. And it has some influence as a consequence. As a practical matter the audience likes this site because it isn’t so hidebound that we have PC rules. So having guys who want to nuke the gay, unborn whales is a plus so long as it doesn’t go overboard. I think if Whiskey had held back he could skated around the red lines practically forever. But then he wouldn’t be Whiskey. And I think is unwise to ask people to alter their speech to remain in comments. Either we take Whiskey for what he is or ask him to post as his site. And come to think of it, why not? The Internet is a big place.
The bottom line is that when we say something bloodcurdling a fair number of people read it and react.
But back to the tone of this site. You really have to continuously call for nuking Arabs, annihilating women and argue for racial superiority for a really long time before people start to complain. Heck even the FSB probably posts here and gets away with it so long as they don’t overdo it. The audience here is incredibly tolerant and well mannered. Still, there comes a time when I can’t dodge and weave any more.
One of the reasons we were developing the Tocque was to try and develop a reputation metric which online communities could use to decide if you were the sort of person they wanted to talk to. It’s hard to run a simple vote on a person unless we run it for a long time and weigh the votes by rep. We have some de facto “elders” like Walt, Luddy Barsen (did I get that right) and Doug, don’t forget Doug! Plus others of similar stature. In that context a vote from say, Walt should count a little more (how much more?) than a newbie.
I’ll stop there, as I’ve rattled on too long.
f47 @ 57:
No, f47, what wretchard did is what is happening to our freedom. This is The Robohobo, reappeared under another pseudo. I thought I would give this place a try again. But no more. C’mon, wretch, censor this. Have the courage of your supposed convictions.
Peter Boston @ 58:
You got that right. I am going to make this last comment count. You arbiters of public discourse who would complain about whiskey are just that, frakkin’ cowards.
Adios. One more time.
We are assuming that this case of Russian espionage was brought forward with the prior consent of the White House. What if that is not the case? Remember how the Navy Seals killed the Somali hijackers of the Merchant Maersk Alabama when they threatened the kidnapped Captain Phillips? Remember how they did that in the teeth of Obama’s efforts to deny them the use of deadly force and how the administration followed up with a witch hunt on Seals that deeply wounded the Navy?
Yesterday on Pajamas Media there was an interesting article “You Deserve To Know — Unequal Law Enforcement Reigns at Obama’s DOJ (PJM Exclusive),” by J. Christian Adams explaining why he resigned from the Justice department after the dismissal of the New Black Panthers Party case. Perhaps we are reaching the point where the apparatchiks are running amuck and those who have spent patient decades building cases and following America’s enemies are determined to shovel what they can out the door before it gets destroyed.
To be blogged under the title “The Fire Sale.”
Josh@44: ” Spies? Unregistered foreign agents. If they arrested every Mexican driving around Los Angeles without registration, … whatever.”
My comment at 37 voiced an assumption that much more remains hidden than has been revealed. I am guessing that “something” happened to trigger the arrests. Something currently hidden from us, something possibly only indirectly related to the story so far, and very possibly something much more interesting than the story so far.
You and wretchard have a different sense and you may well be right.
Oh, yeah. “Spies.” I used the word because they trained in the use of steganography, burst transmissions and other methods of communication that take sufficient extra effort that most of us avoid them when we are not engaged in spying or such. But your point is correct. It appears they were wannabes at best.
100. heyyoukidsgetoffmylawn
Rather than the lyrics “whiskey in the jar,” perhaps the greater irony would be the words Whiskey in the dock. Forgive me if that is what you meant. Yet, even specially appropos would be the reference to the foolish trust he put in a woman</i} named Jenny.
Actually, having meditated on the”Whiskey Rebellion”, I too bid you adieu and will ride off into the sunset on the rhinoceros I rode in on. May God bless each and every one of you, believer and non-believer alike. It was fun while it lasted, but it outlasted the fun.
programmer
I died, but I’m posting from HELL…
………………………………..
- I have assumed from the first time I posted here under a second “nom-de-net” that our host was perfectly aware it was the old same face behind different mask. By the same token, I assume that anything I or anyone else posts anywhere — or any email sent by any service whatsoever — is subject to being intercepted and retrieved, to be used in either a slander action, sedition prosecution or competency trial. Unique IDs & addresses, routers, servers, etc., you know… and ARCHIVES.
- My reason for posting under another cognomen has been to try an alternate voice, or even argue with myself – like playing a game of checkers against yourself.
- I figure you don’t have to be a forensic linguist to recognize someone’s patterns —
- On the other hand, remember “possum-tater?”
I always thought it was Buddy Larsen, but maybe might have been HABU —
- Are there any posters that collaborate and post under one byline?
- A person sharing the place with me, knowing that I occasionally post under a different name, wondered aloud recently whether Belmont actually only has five or six people posting under a dozen different names.
Cute.
“whether Belmont actually only has five or six people posting under a dozen different names”
Why, just the other day I was flaming some moron for the brainless drivel he had spewed here, when I suddenly realized that it was me, under a different name.
More seriously, said person of yours was only approaching the truth, which is that there is only one person here; we are all wretchard.
114. Bob
“… which is that there is only one person here; we are all wretchard.”
The Grate OZ.
+++++++++
wretchard, thanks for all your hard work and the enlightening conversation.
Skeen Dhoo @ 111
Happy Face
Jazz hands if ya got em.
http://www.lyricsmode.com/lyrics/d/dubliners/whiskey_in_the_jar.html
I had hoped that Whiskey would be ideologically defeated rather than politically defeated. Although he may not post on BC anymore, I think his influence will definitely be felt.
My principal objection to his politics has been less his point of view than his propensity to make sweeping generalizations. The problem with the sweeping generalization is that, while it may have a germ of truth in it, it necessarily alienates possible allies.
Whiskey is erudite. He is capable of making highly sophisticated arguments. The interesting thing about his rhetoric is that he sounds much like many college professors from one century ago. If one can imagine a time and place where the “political correctness” of academe would mean sounding like Whiskey, I think colleges and universities throughout the United States during the early twentieth century would come very close.
For that matter, I could easily imagine Whiskey getting elected to high office one century ago. He represents very real sentiments and constituencies in America.
I do not hide my ideological opposition toward much of what Whiskey has to say, and this is principally because I want to end the federal government’s push to racially balkanize the United States of America. If people want a white identity, a black identity, a green identity, or a Klingon identity, I don’t care so long as it doesn’t interfere with carrying out one’s responsibilities as a citizen of the United States. That said, there is an inherent difference between government recognition of an identity that comes from the inside and a top-down manipulation by social engineers. Hence, any federal reference to race, if any, ought to be “fill in the blank”.
Whiskey may be gone from this forum, but his ideas will continue to be influential throughout the United States whether I want them to be or not. Whatever else can be said about him, he is a man with leadership ability who can rally other people to his cause. So, I would not be surprised if Whiskey gets elected as Governor of California.
I’m going to miss Whiskey around here. Love him or hate him, he was always interesting. A friend of mine defines philosophy itself as the area where men can talk honestly to each other, which struck me as an odd definition of it at the time but as days go on it seems quite apt.
There can be no doubt about it, Whiskey’s withdrawl amounts to another victory of political correctness. PC is a force we all decry here, but despite that it has scored a victory even on these grounds. That’s a symptom of the intractable problem of the left. Their ideas are bad, their methods are bad, the whole is damaged by their singular pursuits. Yet, their victories pile up nevertheless, so tightly do they control and frame debate. Sad, really.
114. Bob
“there is only one person here; we are all wretchard.”
Though the cat’s discourse and response is unique – your supported vision is unattractive. A slouching echo chamber appealing to who? Never thought I’d feel this way about this place. That said, it’s been a much appreciated read for me here. Thank you Wretchard for the insight over the years. Your efforts overtake my reservations.
I too would like to see whiskey return. I understand it’s your site wretch, but his was a valuable argument with valid points. I think if people have a problem with viewpoints they find offensive they need to look to themselves instead of crying to the teacher. O never observed any outright offensive comments from whiskey. No foul language, or banal racism. He did make a lot of valid points about the softness of western culture on it’s surface and it feminization. Bring Whiskey back. Just my two cents.
–It appears they were wannabes at best.
The Venona records show dozens if not hundreds of so called wannabees, those who weren’t so great at spycraft. How many did we catch?
This is a confirmation bias issue. All of these idiot terrorists who get caught before their shoes blow up airplanes, or who fail to kill all the Jews at an airline terminal in LA, they are wannabees too, right?
Which makes you feel great, right up until you realize that the ones that we don’t catch are the problem, and the same is true is spycraft.
The issue is why now, and why so dramatically. Why did Canada admit spies are in their province govts, even in their cabinets? Why did we do this now, with Russian presidents here? What message is being sent?
Assumedly, we want something, or we need to indicate what we know, and how we know it.
Dan at 38 has it right. The Keyser Soze routine should be terrifying to us, not droll or boring. Even Powerline blog got it wrong, saying “What a waste! Why bother to create influencers now, given what our WH and state dept are doing already,” as if this is about *now*. It isn’t. It’s about a decade or three from now.
The history of how Putin became president should focus the mind that the KGB/FSB has never had a problem adjusting to the present. They planned for the future, far beyond what Yeltsin and the rest were able to see. Everyone should read Blowing Up Russia, and Death of a Dissident, and compare them to Whittaker Chambers’ Witness. Nothing has changed from the NKVD on. Heck, the Russian spies who were the Cambridge 5 were busy creating the first Bretton Woods pact for banking, and Russian spies were busy creating the Euro just a decade ago. Creating opportunities for influence for the next couple decades was the goal here.
The question remains: why did the Obama administration do this now?
My guess is to demonstrate our technical abilities to follow/catch/acquire information on their spies, to indicate what ELSE it is that we know. Or perhaps we just need people to broker to bring home other folks?
“Whiskey River Take My Mind”
lol, Ashen. I think I’ll prefer “Bloody Mary Morning” on this, haha!
I’ve run across Whiskey on other blogs and forums, where he’ll swagger in like he does here, and people uniformly are floored and don’t know what to do. They’ve never seen anything like our Whiskey. Any writer develops a relationship with his audience, as Whiskey did among us here, over time and intelligently. It’s comic to see somebody coming to Whiskey unitiated.
One signal failure of the Internet is to destroy the cultivation of these types of relationships. Whiskey is, well, whiskey, but in an age of beer in this respect. A large number of folks in his audience will be rubbed the wrong way and the mores of the day incite them to wax wroth over Whiskey’s kind of rubs.
Whiskey’s got to learn to rub people these kinds of ways and to step down on the charged drama. Clearly, saying “I really wish I was a black woman” fails to dent the blow of his ethnic and gender fusillade.
He’s cut loose from this pond, which was a nourishing one for him that helped him develop his style and his argumentation. But the Whiskey Rebellion showing up on the VDH board, et al, seems like Mars invaders. Perforce he’s going to learn to make his pitches more convincing to a general audience outside this small pond who know him well.
That’s good for him. He’ll prosper more if he can pull it off. But it is sad to see him part these grounds, because undeniably he’s been a force in shaping it, and his ability to provoke issues will be missed.
Best o’ luck, Whiskey.
Sn/113; nyet, Possum-Tater was habu –whom i hope is well, wherever he may be. i’ve always been as is except for luddy barsen and Mongo, and mongo Santamaria –both of whom used when something around that toque-time went funny with the whole site, and canceled me out but good. Then later my name came back tolerable, but never to this day my email addy –i still use fictitious mongo@yadadyada –since my actual just disappears the post.
Programmer and Ragnar –i think maybe what the whiskey case may boil adown to, is the ‘fire in a crowded theater’ asterisk on free speech.
imho, becuz: the battle of the sexes, the battle of the classes, all the battles are mutable on change of attitude, or wealth, or gender, or location, ambition, effort, time, whatever –and so whiskey’s determinism could be seen as sermon; “if this is what you want, this is what you get” –iow, hypothetical imperatives. but ‘race’ is different –it’s more a categorical imperative –heck here i go into the weeds –stop –use example–ok, movies, all about images, perfect –which movie –ok, everybody’s seen A Streetcar named Desire and there’s only three main characters –just right for an illo, if i can do it in brevity.
Blanch Du Bois is complex –a former glam that penury and age is making pitiful and helpless, and in that her pain is a no-longer-met need for high self-image, not really a sympathetic character, who yet requires cooperation from the world, which in turn may legitimately wonder “why should i?” Let’s say Blanche is ‘race relations’.
her sister Stella and brother-in-law Stanley handle her in the two available ways –Stanley by being honest and critical and voluble, is the force that would help Blanche –if only she wasn’t stuck so deep into her self. so he ends up being needlessly ‘on-point’, since there’s nothing Blanche can do about it anyway, and this becomes the energy that imprisons –immiserates –the whole family.
Stella, otoh, when she is able, when not being imprisoned in a scene by Stanley’s fixation on ‘getting everything straightened out’, simply treats Blanche as if she were just fine, just as she is, just as she’s always been, and just as though Blanche’s “condition” wasn’t the be-all and end-all of Blanche’s very being.
Stanley sees Stella as dishonest, and makes a point that she can never help Blanche ‘get better’.
Stella sees Stanley as her hubby, whom she loves, and his anger re Blanche as just bad weather, it comes and goes, and maybe tomorrow there will be sunshine.
If Blanche’s problem was that she has a “wrong” skin color and way of life, and if Blanche could change those things, then Stanley would be right, and the avatar of the therapeutic future. Stella would be wrong, a valueless artifact of a long-gone time and place, and essentially without any further moral weight.
But if Blanche cannot change, then those two Stanley and Stella thumbnail descriptions don’t just cancel each other, or meet in a middle –what they do is completely reverse each other and change places.
IOW, colorblind is dishonest *and* morally correct?
(well, it started out as a thought –not sure it finished as one, feh)
While we’re at it, “My Heroes Have Always Been Cowboys”.
Yeah, imma miss Whiskey. His posts and Papa Ray’s “buy more ammo” were/are among the best things on this blog. Although, Subotai has garnered my interest and I always look for his comments. Speaking of Subotai, did you get your handle from the Harkanian?
The problem with discovery of the rather large Russian spy ring(s) is that and going light on said spies holds manifold dangers. Are more to come? Will treating them lightly encourage more spying?
Further, going light on the Russian spies is bad policy because Russia will not do the same for us.
Worse, the list the Big Zero’s close Communist sympathizer list is long. Van Jones a self-professed communist. Acorn has Castro and Che posters in their office. Protesters made up of Workers World Party shill for illegal aliens on May Day and so on.
It is safe to assume that the Russia’s will continue doing there part to undermine us and probably will treat American’s like the pirates.
In light of this large number of spies, the Big Zero should resign or fully document his entire past – including all the missing time periods. His shady past must be brought to light as a US President.
Russians at work:
Groin shot pirate: “This is just a fishing ship.”
Russian commander: “Why do you lie to me?”
Unknown Russian commando: “You’re f*cking dead.”
See pirate video:
http://tinyurl.com/39bqe2b
In the end the Russians just pack the remaining pirates in small boat and removed the nav and com gear and set them adrift 300 miles out. They all died.
The official told Russian news agencies the pirates’ boat disappeared from Russian radar about an hour after their release…”They could not reach the coast and, apparently, have all died,” the official said.
Pirates died:
http://tinyurl.com/236pqgu
I wound not trust the Russians or the Big Zero.
Not that it any of my business, but who complained about Whiskey? Should others posting here know the identity of the PC police.
I had some trouble from Ron Redarse (Rosenbaum in old German) at PJM. He objected to my valid comparison of Homosexuals with arsonists. Since he could not logically refute my argument, he wanted to ban me or something like that. I pointed out that at the moment I have about 6 computers and a home net with as many IPN’s as I wish. I have enough parts left over from when I owned a 2nd hand computer store that I could build an easy dozen more computers if I wanted to put in the time. So it isn’t physically possible for anyone, not even ICANN (Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers) to prevent someone with a small amount of knowledge from accessing the Web. I only have 1 laptop, but it has what in the days of old was called a gold card. Not sure what it is called now a days, but I can float an IPN anywhere I get a signal. ISP’s are businesses, they just worry about the check clearing. When presented with a warrant, they will give the Feds the name on that check.
So if I wish to exercise my natural talent as an asshole, I can diddle a site for as long as I want. Wretcherd can snag my IPN and run it thru a look up site, but that will just tell him what I filled out on the form. That is handy, since sometimes I forget what I put on that form.
Botting software is out there, if you know what to ask for. That means anyone with the knowledge can take over somebody’s computer and do pretty much what they will with it. So that means as many IPN’s as one wants.
SO Whiskey can go to the library or a computer bar and pretty much do what he wants. He will leave tracks that way, but since it isn’t illegal to revisit a site you have been banned from, that doesn’t matter very much.
I consider PJM an far left attempt to curtail conservative political activity on the WWW.
ITM was giving the flacks hired by Soros fits. They were never able to muster rational arguments for leaving Saddam and his boys to their murderous games. So it looks like they set up a site to collect conservatives. Once they got enough in the bag, they shut it down and wipe out some of the more conservative keyboards on the Web.
The Police use the technique all the time. It’s called a sting operation. The hidden advantage of a sting operation is that the state has deeper pockets then the average Fence. So not only are they catching crooks, they are putting out of business the thing a professional thief needs the most.
Anyway, RR must have checked with someone that knew what was up and found out that I was correct. Either that or the PJM boss wouldn’t agree to ban me. What ever, he then went to deleting all my posts. Since I’m retired and have way tooooooo much time on my hands and enjoy a good fight, I started saving my posts off line and then doing a cut and paste to restore them after they were deleted. We did that for a few days and then there was a pretty serious attempt on the computer I was using. ALL my AV stuff went bonkers and my last ditch defense shut down the system. So I went ahead and switched computers on him and started backing up my posts to floppys. We went with that for a month or so, then PJM announced that it was going to require posters to registar so I quit posting at PJM.
I am really curious about who exactly staffed the kangaroo court that tried and convicted Whiskey.
I agree with very little of what Whiskey had to say, but I would rather argue facts with him then be a party to a lynching. If those that complained won’t show their faces, what does that say about their motives?
Rosinante/Typos_R_US/Ablieter/Stehpinkel/K2Blue
Here are the links related to the Big Zero Communist bed fellows.
See Van Jones:
http://tinyurl.com/y89bfx4
See Workers World Party:
http://tinyurl.com/29ceqrz
See Acorn with poster of Castro and Che
http://tinyurl.com/orzqmv
Guys, for the record, Wretchard knows exactly who I am, and that I am an American citizen who has published articles under a real name. Now someone else could hijack the name Mr. X but Wretchard hinted there may be methods to determine if that’s the case for PJM. I wanted to thank our host for respecting my privacy and doing his best to spare us from either becoming LGF or all getting tarred and feathered with Whiskey’s rants. I think Wretchard sometimes knows a lot more about who comes around here than he wants to say. When I had a blog at one time I had an interesting list of ISP hits too.
The fact that I post here under a pseudonym is mainly due to the days being evil and the fact that the web is a free-fire and (if some folks are determined enough to find out who you are)a privacy free zone, what with Google and Cisco’s documented close relationships with numerous governments. Those relationships might have led for example to ‘We Fool the World’ getting banned on YouTube, which Wretchard posted on. I have just seen too many coincidences particularly related to U.S. NGOs (many of them Soros funded) operating in or about Russia not to take steps to protect myself.
Very few people save for L3 post here using their real names, and given the escalation in our political culture that Wretchard has observed it should be clear to everyone why. In this economy who wants their prospects for future employment ruined because of something they posted on somebody else’s blog, much less their own?
Dave,
“Just couse Russians tend to have blond hair and blue eyes and other causacoid
features does N-O-T make them part of Western Civilization.”
This is hilarious, since in Russia Caucasian is almost synonymous with ‘black’ in this country. Another one of those twists of political correctness, like white African Americans from South Africa. You’re really putting me in my place now with such intellectual firepower!
“In fact, Russia is often defined by—-and even dominated by—–those who consider the West their inherent and mortal enemy. They exhibit little or no desire to improve their own flawed set of folkways but do try to bleed our superior culture so that we must necessarily become as nyee kultornee as they. This form of Russian is but an envious parasite.”
Ok, substitute ‘the Jews’ or ‘blacks’ for Russia in these lines and see how it looks. Much worse than Whiskey who has been politely asked to take his lines somewhere else. And whoever that jerkoff who wrote that I was denying the Armenian genocide because I wrote Whiskey hates the Kardashians – please. The combined GNP of the Armenian diasporas in LA and Moscow is probably larger than the homeland, and Armenia combined with Israelites and Lebanese probably has one of the wealthiest diasporas on the planet, even wealthier on average than Indians and Malay Chinese.
I think the basic problem some of the old fart Cold Warrior BCers have is that I’m a young American who actually spent time in Russia and liked it. I don’t apologize for that and I’m glad there are folks like Marie Claude here who question what the ‘conservative’ media writes as well as the ‘liberal’. Even Teresita who I thought worked for the U.S. Navy is posting links to Alex Jones here. So we are living in very conspiratorial times where ‘big stories’ like this spy bust are in an Angletonian hall of mirrors.
At least Buddy is catching on to the idea that maybe Russia wouldn’t always prefer a left-wing American government that turns its own substantial dollar holdings into toilet paper and inflates oil prices to the point that an innograd becomes an afterthought. Sure they didn’t want Misha the Tie Eater’s BFF McCain, but I don’t think they heart them some Obama either.
Crimony Buddy. That is one tortured explanation. OK I’ll give it a go, I’ll miss Whiskey too but must admit, and this is coming from a guy who does not shy away from issues like race, he was getting close to over the line unless you were to say that claiming minority women were incapable of higher intellectual pursuits like “engineering” for example but were only capable of squirting out brats to stay entrenched in the welfare state wasn’t going over the line. I took issue with him specifically on those issues because it was flat out wrong and embarrassed me to the point that my silence would indicate some level of concurrence. Didn’t offend me in the least though. I just think he needed to get out more and to lighten up a bit and this trend was getting bolder as if to taunt for some reaction. At what point do you say OK that is too much?
Being born in California in the 50’s and seeing such change is disheartening but it is what it is and could be worse. Growing up in Somalia for instance. I grew up with racial indifference and have had friends of “color” since I was a kid. My dad was militantly anti-racist anti-anti-Semite and I thought we were all headin’ to a golden age but the path from Martin Luther King to Rodney King has taught me one thing; the US government is the most racist institution on earth because it needs it to divide and conquer. It makes me sad to see our society going backwards. I must tolerate racism from a Maxine Waters or a Al Sharpton but I don’t from a fellow WASP Californian and I wont. We can do better than that.
RE: Whiskey
I had a boss that admonished me about “petting the cat backwards” as I had a habit of doing that at most meetings that I was running. It was explained that although our job was to get to a decision point and execute in a time-constrained environment, accomplishing this in an already stressful situation didn’t need additional unfocused urgency. To pet the cat backwards is an art form and a tool to be used sparingly I took his advice and began a more judicious use for effect.
Whiskey is a very keen observer of the world and his frustration came through loud and clear, I understand his POV. He unfortunately petted the cat backwards as an MO and as a voice crying in the wilderness but each problem set wasn’t a nail and the overuse of his hammer created a situation where it was at times difficult to wade through to get to the other salient points in his writing.
Wretchard my salute to you for providing this forum and for maintaining a tidy ship. Your title openings sometimes leave us, at where I work, in discussion for days. Thank You.
“Everyone should read Blowing Up Russia, and Death of a Dissident, and compare them to Whittaker Chambers’ Witness.”
Greifer,
For the record, all of those books are available at the Biblio Globus bookstore at Metro stop Lubyanka on the (original) red line of the Moscow Metro, a stone’s throw from FSB headquarters. Now either they’re placed there like THE BOOK in 1984 to weed out dissidents, or nobody gives a crap about suppressing their claims. Since they’re all freely available on the Russian Internet, I lean towards the latter.
Hey Mr.X. Your posts are wrapping now. I recall that last line verbatum. Too lazy to look it up though. Do you have Alzheimers or did I already ask you that?
Ok I’m done now, seriously.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2010-06-29/russian-spies-the-illegals-laughter-at-the-kremlin/2/
95: “ I don’t care of Saddam, he was an evil man, not only him, unfortunately, but he got your support to make war against Iran
In fact Saddam got most of his armaments from the USSR and France:
http://www.command-post.org/archives/002978.html
Doctor: “Bad news –you have Alzheimer’s.”
Patient: “Whew –i was afraid i had Alzheimer’s.”
***
mr X; Ok I’m done now, seriously.
–that’s ambiguous, mr X –which do you mean?
1) mission accomplished, concluded
2) mission failed, concluded
3) just had enough for today, knockin’ off
4) warden turned out the lights
2)
5) you’re simmering in a large iron kettle deep in the New Guinea forest, and trying to talk the cook into putting out the fire
***
but no hard feelings, mr X –you’re ok, yourself. In fact if my country and i weren’t the target, i’d admire the KGB and the one party system behind it as the perfectly designed biological nemesis of our otherwise invulnerable two-party evolutionary system.
IOW, if it weren’t for the Rooskies, we could just sit back and watch Obamanoia have an eight-year flame out, and be done with the foolishness for good, without DC having become Samovar City
I’m sorry to learn that Whiskey was asked to leave.
His views on women and his insistence that race is our essence were hopeless and depressing but at the same time, while reading his posts, I often got the feeling that I could understand why he felt as he did. I thought if only he could somehow manage to tear off the Darwinian blinders and acknowledge a little noumena amidst all the phenomena, then he would be a better man for it. But no, he had it all figured out already… the world according to Whiskey. Still, he did have a gentlemanly way about him – as LOTM @102 pointed out: “Whiskey did not as a rule engage in personal abuse and did make an effort to not personally endorse the social consequences of his theories.” This is true.
Although I thought he was wrong about some things, I don’t think he deserved to be shown the door.
I would wish that all could remember that we have no right not to be offended.
130. Annoy Mouse
I must tolerate racism from a Maxine Waters or a Al Sharpton but I don’t from a fellow WASP Californian and I wont.
Why would you tolerate racism from Maxine Waters or Al Sharpton? I won’t, and am willing to call them out on it.
One of the positive effects of the Obama regime may be that it finally puts an end to the wholly unwarranted phenomenon of “white guilt”, which is after all what got him elected in the first place. Although it may be too little, too late to reverse the real damage he has done to our nation.
That, by the way, is probably what gave rise to Whiskey’s ideas, and what makes people like me sympathetic to them. I probably wouldn’t have given them the time of day otherwise. Alas, our government does indeed seem to have moved away from the traditional melting pot towards a racial spoils system, as he said.
r/139; i think you’re right –the retro movement in race comity is undeniable –the question is what is the purpose of wrecking so many decades of civic progress. note that Rev Wright and Minister Farrakan both made rather stunning race-hostile broadsides today –Wright on whites and Farrakan on Jews. Coincidence, same day? Again, to what purpose? A long hot summer to finish off the economy?
116. heyyoukidsgetoffmylawn
Good for you! Good phonetics! Better than Jean Bub.
124. buddy larsen
IOW, colorblind is dishonest *and* morally correct?
130. Annoy Mouse
the US government is the most racist institution on earth because it needs it to divide and conquer
………
I worked as an IT contractor in DC during most of the 90′s after I returned from Morningside Heights in Manhattan. I had extended stays as an IT contractor at the downtown headquarters of HUD, the VA & US Customs & Border Patrol. At all of these places the hiring practices were 100% in your face anti white. Every floor had an EEOC office. In theory the equal employment opportunity commission is supposed to enforce anti discrimination laws but in practice it is just pushing white people out of the federal bureaucracy.
Federal contracting law currently advantages all non white people. Any newly minted American citizen who is non white from anywhere in the world is given a preference over any white person for bidding on federal government contracts. The result was that none of owners of the big contract companies I worked for were white. But they weren’t american black either.
From time to time I would go in for government services of one stripe or another. I would be the only american white there. Often the non whites were not american black either.
what I have seen over the last decades is that the entire system of federal preferences set up in the 60′s under the great society has been turned on its head–or rather they have been pushed to their logical conclusion. Now we have an undocumented/black/communist/atheist/muslim/afrocentric president whose primary constituency is the SEOC government labor unions. Their only goal is to reproduce themselves–even if that means their parasitic activities kill their hosts. That means transfering wealth from whites to non whites and locking in their power to do so by legalizing the illegals.
Currently I work in internet marketing. Much of marketing is pitched at women — especially single women.
I never had any big disagreements with Whiskey nor Habu for that matter. Both these guys are native american voices. Its troubling that their voices should not be treated with the same respect as partisans on the board of France or Russia or Israel. And what do I mean by respect? Well, if you don’t care to read their stuff — you just jump over it.
The people who quietly went to Wretchard and complained about these guys are either people who hate America, or ones who just love their own country. Of course they could be just dangerously naive.
Whiskey–did have a lotta disagreement with, but how I can have a lotta disagreement with if not present. Conundrum it is, you see. I hope he learns that cat petting trick and also how not to repeat three themes over and over and over and over… and that he comes back for more disagreement!
charles, read the last para, the last line –mercy, mercy.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703374104575337172606806234.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_MIDDLENexttoWhatsNewsForth
Charles, aware of the situation you describe, a similar crap goes on, on the north side of the US/CA border and it is insidious and corrosive. Whiskey no doubt observed the same. However, his conclusion that we have to accept it and take it to its ultimate tribal conclusion–that is accepting their checkers. I want to play GO. Fcuk their checkers!
Well I don’t know exactly who everybody is; only as much as anybody who runs a site. A connection reports the standard things, so I can do an IP lookup which has some info attached to it. I haven’t done so for Mr. X. Some people (not just me) have met others via IM or Email by starting from this site.
Although very few teenagers are likely to be among the commenters, there’s a duty to safety that I must to meet. That includes keeping things legal, blocking spam, deleting trackbacks to viagra sites, etc etc. It is hard work creating a space where 95% of views can be expressed yet where visitors can feel the place isn’t pasteurized. Moldy maybe, but not slimy or pasteurized.
Along the way one has to fall short in many ways. I have 17,161 unanswered emails in one account alone and there are several. Not answering them may slight people who’ve taken the time to send me something special or say hello. It’s hard opening an email and realizing … ooops … should have answered that. But it’s not intended. So you do what you can. You write custom rules and filters, but nothing is perfect. The blog model is far from ideal; beyond a certain size it is hard to sustain. Understandably some guys get a group blog. Others disable comments. Just to ease the burden. Look at Glenn Reynolds. You wonder when he sleeps. The average blog post here is about 1,000 words long now. That’s about 350,000 words a year. Four full length novels. And I’m bound to say something stupid in all of that.
Eventually I realized I was going to mess up in some way and by somebody’s point of view and they would be right. The problem was, I couldn’t be right for everybody.
wretchard @48: “I asked Whiskey to stop commenting in response to a number of complaints.”
Regrettable.
Whiskey: Ave atque vale!
Lifeofthemind:–
It is rare to see a sentence as pompous, meaningless, and illiterate as this one:– “102. Lifeofthemind….”4. The relentless negativity of his perspective was corrosive to the conversation as a social activity.” I sincerely hope that English is not your first language.
I’m not so sure Obama wanted/endorsed the announcement about the spy ring roll-up. A man who would hold a public-relations stunt like the “burger summit” with a hostile foreign power is not a man who is serious about counter-intelligence. We’re all friends now, didn’t you guys see the reset button??? Mere facts will not get in the way of naive policy decisions in this administration!
RE: Whiskey
I won’t be sad to see him go. His 5,000 word screeds have been defacing the site for years, quickly skipped over by most of the readers. It’s nice to have alternative viewpoints, but Whiskey went way beyond that with his constant, repetitive diatribes against anyone who wasn’t a white male. When you already know EXACTLY what someone will say before they say it, there isn’t much utility left there.
Programmer, though you (and I) haven’t been posting as much recently, I am sad to see you go.
I am surprised that even conservative national security commenators are treating this as a bit of a joke.
Wretchard @ 146 — Sir, let me have the temerity to speak on behalf of your community of readers: You are doing a wonderful job! We all appreciate and admire you. Your intellect and observations are what keep us all coming back.
Speaking on behalf of myself, I can’t help but notice that not a single person has stepped forward to say that he/she/it was one of those who privately contacted Wretchard and demanded Whiskey’s defenestration. Not a single one!
It might have been Eisenhower who said something about occasionally having to choose the “least unacceptable alternative”. The Whiskey situation may have been one of those.
W, you made the decision to ask Whiskey to stop posting — understandable, and gentlemanly. Now finish the job by permanently banning the sniveling cowards who whined to you in the shadows and still refuse to step into the light.
put me on the list for “don’t care if whiskey’s been banned.” i think we’ve all learned his teachings and could improvise our own convincing whiskey posts. he’s imparted his own soul-impression on BC and should consider himself a success. and if he is as honorable as he seems to regard himself, he’ll rise to the challenge and mutate accordingly.
re books available near/under lubyanka that implicate lubyanka, consider the long lives of defectors who force themselves into fame – for protection. ultimately, whatever it is that the kgb does, there is too much white noise and boredom and distraction to be able to convincingly follow it. and even if i, a non-famous person who doesn’t even own a gun or know how to write an internet virus, were to decipher the Enigma, what would it matter, praxiswise? squat.
i read that loud and clear –it’s like weather –you can dress for it, and maneuver around and within it, but you can’t do squat about the weather. Patton was the last Christian soldier who could’ve, but it got him first.
I confess that I’m ambivalent about Whiskey’s departure.
On the one hand, freedom of speech is important and it is sad to see any voice silenced. Whiskey represents a viewpoint that exists, and however much I disagree with it, he speaks for millions of people. Moreover, he taps into feelings that many Americans don’t want to feel but actually do.
On the other hand, Whiskey repeats himself and tends to fit every problem into his Procrustean bed of race-class-gender. Moreover, I can see a major problem looming for the Belmont Club if he were to continue to post.
Imagine if CBS, MSNBC, NBC, CNN, the New York Times, Rolling Stone, and the National Enquirer all ganged up on the Belmont Club. They would claim that the Belmont Club was “the brains of the right wing blogosphere and by extension, the Republican Party”. They would then print Whiskey’s remarks and tar conservatism and the Republican Party by extension. I could see how Keith Olberman, Chris Matthews, and Thomas Friedman would have a field day using Whiskey as their new straw man.
This, combined with hacking to “out” commentators and readers of the Belmont Club, could have an effect. Consider what happened to the University of East Anglia. Sure, it’s illegal to invade privacy, but who is going to prosecute, the Obama administration?
To put it bluntly, Whiskey is the worst nightmare of the “multicultural” anti-white Left. His persona is a natural reaction to the race-based remedies that exist in present day. He embraces the memes and definitions of the race-based Left and inverts them into a neo-Jacksonian white nationalism. His ideas aren’t terribly different from the “Black Consciousness” movement of the 1970’s; he comes close to creating his own “white consciousness” movement as a white shadow of Jeremiah Wright.
For those who worry about preserving the Union, Whiskey’s ideas have the potential to rip our nation into shreds. The problem is that the ideas of the Obama coalition that he is reacting against are already doing that; Whiskey merely represents (and I dare say embraces) a “white millet” within Obama’s Ottoman-style racial millet system.
So, again I state my ambivalence. Whiskey’s freedom of speech is important. In an ideal world, he should have the liberty to state his case. This world isn’t ideal. The Obama administration has almost certainly tagged the Belmont Club as a target for surveillance. Given how Whiskey tends to bog down discussions on racial terrain advantageous to leftist counterattack, there is ample reason for powerful people to be worried about the effects of any association with him.
Given the situation Wretchard is in, I’m not sure he could have acted much differently.
hmm Whiskey didn’t disturb me, on the other side he had insteresting points too. Sure in France he would have been sued by some “vertuous” associations against racial and gender discriminations, but these are also the problem that untertains the fights and quarrels among our diverse popultions, in that sense, that none can’t express a non political corrected opinion anymore. So when one feels aggressed by such discourses, better to argument right away, than keeping the anger asleep until it burst into a bigger polemic.
So I’m for Whiskey back on board
#135 Phil Jackson
hmm, your site isn’t a reliable source, launched in 2003, for, and in the heat of the frenchbashing
check here:
An American company, Pfaulder Corporation of Rochester, New York, supplied the Iraqis with a blueprint in 1975, enabling them to construct their first chemical warfare plant. The plant was purchased in sections from Italy, West Germany and East Germany and assembled in Iraq. It was located at Akhashat in north-western Iraq, and the cost was around $50 million for the plant and $30 million for the safety equipment.
http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/51/040.html
#135 Phil Jackson
in a graphic perspective:
http://www.agoyandhisblog.com/evidence/whoarmediraq.pdf
http://www.agoyandhisblog.com/evidence/nyt-041303.gif
Now, I recall you that Saddam wasn’t a “western” ennemi until the first Irak war, that no arms embargo was pronounced against him until then.
in re the Whiskey issue
Buddy got it right ( as usual).
Making an argument is one thing.
Advocacy is something else – entirely.
The poster in question blurred the distinction more often than not.
Concerning people who care about their environs and associations.
He should change his blog name from Whiskey to “One who makes the argument”.
Not as pithy but sets an unambiguous tone.
The most vigorous objection was extrapolating perceptions from limited venues into larger and presumably policy-based themes. Rightful and righteous howls they were too.
I too will miss Whiskey; I always found his rants enjoyable, even if a bit repetitive.
It is Wretchard’s place, and 154:Alexis points out some good practical reasons for banning Whiskey, but suppression of a point of view because of how the Left might react is a victory for the Left nonetheless.
MC, those are numbers of “deals” – the Soviet Union armed Iraq prior to 1991 with 80%+ of its weaponry. Or did “West Germany” sell it all those T-72 tanks, Kalashnikovs, RPG-7s, and Scuds? Yet another example of people just ignoring what the USSR did/does in the world.
At least we know who built its nuclear reactor, don’t we.
I don’t get what’s wrong with the French point of view. It literally makes no sense, even for the French; it must be the most insane of the large Western economies and most ironically oblivious of all beneficiaries of the US-UK-Japan-German. France actually thinks it does something irreplacable, contributes something exquisitely unique, loves to hear its own little Napoleonic voice squealing as it forces itself to the head of the line of Third World sh_tholes. Personally, I’m shocked France hasn’t nuked and beggared itself out of existence at this point or drowned in its own “gloire” as it dripped from the knife of one of its Communist or Beduoin parasite/mascots. What’s with all the flaboyant demonstrations of France’s independence? What is this obnoxious need to just straight up f_ck with everything, like a brat craving attention? I suppose it’s too much to hope that you some day perceive that, as ridiculous as you think USA may look to outsiders, I assure you France looks – from the same perspective – way, way worse.
Dan
woah, you don’t like the broken legend of the good guis ?
though it’s the discourse that brainwashed you since your country broke the alliance with the Jay treaty, and that you rejoined your master womb, the English empire.
Now, Osirak was bombed in 1981 by Israel, which might have conditionned Saddam into a more malicious prodject
http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/iraq/facility/osiraq.htm
so don’t count it in your WMD collection
France actually thinks it does something irreplacable, contributes something exquisitely unique, loves to hear its own little Napoleonic
BS, you’re the ones that keep referring to our history and warriors, I wonder why, some disturbing shadow in the greatness of the Anglo-Saxon contribution to that lovely world ?
The rest of your ranting is as idiotish as your ignorance and as your untertained xenophoby are
At least Whiskey, isn’t in your play-ground, that’s why his rantings are still fairer
93/Josh
Karma can be a very demanding madame.
Maybe these Russians were rolled up because they left the reservation..ie quit their ACORN gigs for a stinky capitalistic high$ job. Or perhaps they finished their 2010 Census work ahead of time and were penalized for efficiency.
Sorry to see whiskey go. Yes, I got the occasional burn but never so much as a hangover. He wasnt the smoothest on the shelf but he was/is complex enough to make you ponder. I agree that those with no taste for strong spirits should learn how to use their mouse wheel scroll bar skip filter. Hell, Ive scrolled past Walt on occasion. Sorry Walt.
Joe Buzz! Say it ain’t so!
>;-)
Ok correction maybe Wretchard doesn’t know exactly who I am, but I’ve emailed him. Maybe mine ended up in that inbox with 13,100 other emails from actual human beings instead of bots. A strategeric ambiguity is better for all concerned considering the escalation in consequences for careers after exercising free speech that we all fear are coming to an America near you.
I want to thank our host for giving me the chance to correct some of the obnoxious Russophobia present in conservative circles and create perhaps some empathy if not the first hints of a post-Cold War alliance instead. Maybe that made me a one trick pony but I would not have wanted to compete with other posters here in terms of military or other expertise. Russia just happened to be my specialization and in particular the haunting parallels between Russia’s hyperinflation/implosion in the early 90s and our own decaying superpower status.
Maybe Prof Igor Panarin, whom I once saw on the Moscow subway (ok Russophobes here, start cranking up your conspiracy theories now!), did a Jedi mind trick on me. In my darkest moments I wonder if he’s right and if Russki sympathy for the Republic of Texas movement is payback for American silovik front groups the American Council for Peace in Chechnya and the Jamestown Foundation.
And Buddy, I meant I’m done with PJM for a while. The real world’s demands are getting more severe.
So – signing off for a good while. Don’t know when I’ll be back.
Ok correction maybe Wretchard doesn’t know exactly who I am, but I’ve emailed him. Maybe mine ended up in that inbox with 13,100 other emails from actual human beings instead of bots. A strategeric ambiguity is better for all concerned considering the escalation in consequences for careers after exercising free speech that we all fear are coming to an America near you.
I want to thank our host for giving me the chance to correct some of the obnoxious Russophobia present in conservative circles and create perhaps some empathy if not the first hints of a post-Cold War alliance instead. Maybe that made me a one trick pony but I would not have wanted to compete with other posters here in terms of military or other expertise. Russia just happened to be my specialization and in particular the haunting parallels between Russia’s hyperinflation and implosion in the early 1990s with our own decaying superpower status.
Maybe Prof Igor Panarin, whom I once saw on the Moscow subway (ok Russophobes here, start cranking up your conspiracy theories now!), did a Jedi mind trick on me. In my darkest moments I wonder if he’s right, even if his territorial maps are silly. I also suspect Russki sympathy for the Republic of Texas movement is payback for American silovik front groups that promoted separatism in Russia like the American Council for Peace in Chechnya and the Jamestown Foundation. And that the reason the Russians are laughing at the allegations against these arrested eleven is simply because Uncle Sam has flooded their country with NGOniks and funded journalists who’ve been doing the same in Russia for years. They just don’t need to do their WiFi stuff with American consulars (and a last bit of tradecraft guys, almost any woman you see with the hair color of Anna Chapman is probably from the former USSR, it’s all the rage there, especially with Ukrainians – go to Brighton Beach and see what I mean).
And Buddy, I meant I’m done with PJM for a while. The real world’s demands are getting more severe.
So – signing off for a good while. Don’t know when I’ll be back. (delete previous comment pls)
Elvis Costello My Dark Life (which references the collapse of the USSR):
She says, nobody wants to believe
You’re the same as
everyone
What makes makes me
unique
My Dark Life
There was a kink in the
world
Sent that statue
tumbling
An invitation east
So we can watch it all
crumbling
she came on like a light
and so softly she spoke
you don’t know
you don’t know about
My dark life
And you think you’re a
guest
You’re a tourist at best
Peering into the
corners of
My dark life
Now that you, You tear
your dreams
From consumptive
ballerinas
She’ll stand on tiptoe
for you
In a grey and tattered
tutu
She stay’s where
she is
cause of voyeurs like
these
with an accusative look
that says
My Dark Life
Rubber men await you
there
In each beguiling alley
To shake you and to
pierce you and remind you of
My dark Life
Enter the pious elite
In their preening finery
And bang the tambourine
They’re dining on rice
paper scenery
See how the villain
attracts
Envious glances from
everyone
She’s waitressing by day
It doesn’t bring in
much money now
And as strong concealed
arms
Set off bells and alarms
In the strangest
locations of
My Dark Life
But the fantasies
slipped
as he tipped her in
cigarettes
She tries to smile very
graciously
When she wants to kill
him
Now the victory is sweet
You get down upon your
knees
It’s the perfect
position
for kissing west on
leather
So they came from Ugly,
Texas
and from Nameless,
Tennesee
from Peculiar, Missouri
and from places closer
to me
All the cream of
heartless england
cheer the carnival is
over
and remnants of Red Army
bandsmen
played America the
Beautiful
And an Elvis Costello fan! That’s even worse than being in the SVR.
Mr X I saw such a slavic woman once in my place, she was auditing a local porcelain enterprise that a St Petersburg rich(?) oligarch (?) offered to his wife. She was accompanied to my place by french young managers of something. Anyway these guis were drinking out her words that she displayed parsimoniously like some smoke cigar rounds. She look like an angel, and was the light of my place.
I can imagine that American guis would fall under such a charm too. Though I don’t think that the kind of women are malicious, they don’t usually exploit their skill, it’s like a divin marvel on our gloomy planet, unfortunately, generally their fate isn’t in correlation with their aura.
Listen to this guy, if anybody deserves to be banned….
“Knock that slavery off their sleeves!!”
Damn..
Papa Ray
P.S. On this racist YouTube page, there are many of this man’s rants and ramblings. Don’t watch nor listen, because he will cast a spell over you, one that will change the way you think!
Now we wouldn’t want that to happen..now would we?
them gorgeous Slavic women are said to be crosses of Norse and Asiatic. hope it’s true –it’s a nice thought –hybrid vigor being a good ole natural fact oblivious to politics such as PC MultiCulti’s nice-sounding ends justifying just any old means anybody might want to torture the language into a persuasive facsimile of.
***
mr x, i grok the Alexander Nevsky heroic and bittersweet manning of the motherland barricades atmosphere of your poetic hasta la vista, well-executed as usual in your presentations.
However, to start the history with western influences crowding into the post USSR vacuum, is to picture the west in its capitalism cartoon, as the always power and money greedy rude yankee-like icon-breakers daily re-crucifying Saint Andrew.
What if instead we start history one step farther in, and the post-USSR western influx was primarily intent on trying to mollify or redirect whatever powerful force had just then quit a three generation offensive featuring the hostile military, political, and cultural occupation and suppression of 100 million East Europeans in a dozen ancient national states and cultures?
uh, Buddy, can you make it more simple for me ?
MC, mr x complains about western influence in mother russia, i answered that in the most recent cycle of history, it has been a defensive rather than an offensive influence.
let’s see… vladimir chooses constantinople… ivan iii & iv’s italian architects… peter the great’s grand tour… catherine the great’s here & there plucking… decembrist types… painters, novelists, composers, dance of the 19th century following french/german models… german/english marx & engels via lenin & co… hm…. as i recall the sweep of things, the only people who have exerted western influence on russia have been russians, generally brutally, though with important exceptions. the end.
i don’t think russophobe is the right word. aside from its political traditions and 20th century political personalities, i am a great admirer of most things russian. in fact i also admire the soviet union for the colossal ingenuity of its masters, if only as a massive novelty in human experience. my grandmother is ukrainian, actually, and was russian orthodox. women don’t come any more beautiful than those found between moscow and kiev – perhaps to the despair of other maidens.
nevertheless, russian politics is pure cunning cruel power: thus, the vampire kingdom. doesn’t mean i don’t love to get wasted of a hot summer afternoon with medieval-looking russian orthodox priests at gigantic post-mass feasts, argue patristics with them, and then dance with sweet wet-eyed teenage twins to the organum of that shitty Slav techno – to be interrupted only by the priests and the mothers who come up to tell you you should marry them. who doesn’t love that? but you don’t get points for loving that, and neither do the vampires.
Mr. X (#129):
Allow me to introduce myself. I’m Mr “Jerkoff” (an ancient and honorable Russian name). May I suggest that you peruse a dictionary, somewhere between “humongous” and “humous”? (While you’re at it, you may also want to look up “non sequitur”.)
wretchard (#146):
“If memories were all I sang I’d rather drive a truck”
parchellan (#148):
Assuming that your nom-de-plume is not widely shared, I find your sitting in judgment of other people’s pompousness amusing.
Alexis (#154):
See BNP.
buddy (#170):
I find that Nadya Nepomnyashaya makes Break Your Heart much easier to take.
i could not agree more, dan, and really nicely writ BTW –yep slavic culture is incredibly interesting and vital –just look at the writers, and then understand that we’re reading but pale translations.
The problem, yes, is the KGB state-within-a-state, the five or seven thousand specially-recruited geniuses each with a lifetime career project and no senate or house committees to entertain every two year election cycle. It’s invulnerable and insatiable and as well-funded as the world underground cash flow can make it, and sees a primary enemy in American patriotism –if for nothing else, on momentum and need for raison d’etre, alone.
***
Bob –BNP –Petrobras? And Nadia –they say she can’t dance –i say to that, “Bolshoi!”
Dan, it goes all the way from Moskva through Kiiv, Lviv, Uzhhorod, Nitra, Brno and terminates somewhere west of Plzen.
Rickl – sorry so late with a reply (its tough being white)- “Why would you tolerate racism from Maxine Waters or Al Sharpton?”
I guess because who rises above the BS first? Us or them? There were traditional abuses that occurred and it seems like every year I hear about a new one. I am moving on but the likes of Waters or Sharpton are just going to have to blow themselves out. They’re broken and some may be personal psychology or it may be just racial profiteering. But it serves no purpose that we so blessed should continue the cycle of hatred. MLK knew this and the current crop of agitators didn’t get the message. So I guess will just have to keep the individual out of it for now. But our government? How dare they institutionalize hatred. It will serve them no good in the end and any decent person knows that, black, white or indifferent.
In the humble spirit of African American spiritual I say, Yezz sir, yezz sir. It is a cryin’ shame, lordy lord.
Mouse, ya’ mistaken. It serves purpose, else they won’t do it. E.g. feeding people useless BS so they don’t get any ideas. Old as humanity, but still works like a charm. That is… until blowbacks. But until then, it is for the ruling parasites udderly awesome, overflowing with milk and fermented sweetness.
Buddy I think maybe the blogging between the bars is harder than we could imagine.
“So – signing off for a good while. Don’t know when I’ll be back.”
Maybe Mr Equis needs to go dust off another legend. It must be hard working with your boss constantly looking over your shoulder, and now this. No dacha for you!
http://videos.mediaite.com/video/Exclusive-Sexy-Russian-Spy-Vide
interview with the sexy Russian “spy”
and “how to make a russian movie” video
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k1aYziC1fblwEJ8u68#from=embed?start=10
Will the Russians Retaliate? http://shar.es/mO25j
“the arrests in the U.S. could prompt Russian intelligence agencies to retaliate quickly by launching a roundup of suspected American intelligence agents within Russian borders. “I’m afraid the Russians will go bonkers over this out and will try to find American spies here,”
AM/179; yeh –poor guy –tough assignment, rewriting history for a group of history buffs, with da boss looking on at every step of the way. and we were polite and friendly, too –no help at all for that blustering right wing war hawk Russophobic thingie –
Dang when this guy has a dream – he really has a doozie.
Only trouble is, it sounds way too plausible.
Papa Ray
twobyfour (#176): “all the way from Moskva through Kiiv, Lviv, Uzhhorod, Nitra, Brno and terminates somewhere west of Plzen.”
And the question is: “What if Patton were dyslexic?”
Marie Claude (#180):
Tiens, un making-of de mon film favori!
twoby/176; could one deduce, from those place names of beautiful women, that vowels are bad for ‘looks’? So, women of Houston, Dallas, Austin, and San Antonio, if wanting to appear more exotic, could start being from Hstn, Dlls, Stn, and Sn Ntn?
buddy larson:
Actually, Whiskey has been a staunch advocate in favor of the British National Party. Given Whiskey’s strong reputation for promoting white nationalism, I had immediately assumed Bob meant “British National Party” when he wrote “BNP”.
Buddy, but the accent isn’t adequat, and the charm wouldn’t operate
Papa Ray (#183):
Dream/nightmare? I see this scenario(s) during my waking hours, clear as the midday sun. This is no worst-case scenario, this is the ineluctable result of our present course.
“Former Justice Department Lawyer Accuses Holder of Dropping New Black Panther Case for Racial Reasons”
Interesting, this race stuff isn’t it? What did the Honorable James D. Manning say?
Black People have kidnapped America and holding her hostage and preventing her from being all she could be.
Papa Ray
I am only an occasional commenter, but an obsessive reader of this forum. But I think it is time to add my voice to the balance on our house controversy. I am quite sad to learn that whiskey has been “cleansed”. First because I miss his voice. I thought he expressed an unpopular position very cogently. Heven if he sometimes took an extreme stance, he usually had more than a kernel of truth and insight. His extremism was partly reaction to his opposition. Sometimes he presented an intellectual caricature, but caricatures are an effective tool based on emphasizing notable characteristics of the target. I also am troubled because his disappearance will strengthen the PC forces. I hope we would not disappear any of our other countrvailing troublemakers, like MC or Mr. X or Fletcher Christian, even though they often get up my nose. Time for me to take my stand as “Whiskey’s Friend”.
Rurik glad to see your words. Been a long time hasn’t it from the ol’ days til now. I don’t think we ever thought it would come down to this sorry time for our Republic. I read you elsewhere and admire your words and spirit. Don’t be so long between comments here.
It’s getting bad but we stand ready and I for one am working hard locally to make sure everyone is registered and knows where to go to vote and has a way there and back. I’ve also put my name in to work at the polls if they will have me.
We are going to have to work hard to win, what we will do if we don’t, is something I don’t want to think about right now.
We just have to unseat every democrat we possibly can from any office.
That is my hope and prayer.
Papa Ray
P.S. And yes, I will suffer Whisky’s absence also. I can’t fault any man or woman who tells the truth as they see it. Be they right or wrong, I will give them that. It seems that nowadays lies and deception are the norm and a man’s word or handshake means nothing anymore.
hmm, Rurik, Troublemaker, what’s that ? ah, you mean different, that’s right !
Though I don’t make trouble for the sake of, just that I like to clarify certain unclear facts, and God knows how many there are in certain minds
Hey Rurik, are you mr. equis boss?
JA (just asking)
Buddy, say “burn”, then add “oh” at the end and you have Brno. Czechs simply discarded unsounded vowels …. in 17th century. Plzen is a bit harder, can’t think of an English sound that would reproduce it.
Strč prst skrz krk. <- I swear, this is a complete and legitimate sentence!
(Actually, a tongue twister presenting a bit nonsensical notion, but grammatically kosher).
As for purdy ladies and a lack of vowels, a coincidence. They just happen to happen in the general area and they just use more consonant clusters, there is a plenty of vowels in some words to make up for it. Toward east in direction of Moskva (Moscow) there is tendency to use more of them, at least in the written form and public exchanges. Common folk tends to leave them out to a degree and all you hear is sort of a stream of consonants.
Papa Ray, Manning is a truth seeker and tells things as they are. But there is one noticeable difference between Manning and Whiskey. Manning will have none of that tribal adherence and segregation, while Whiskey advocates it. Culturally, Manning is closer to me than Whiskey.
Well, Whiskey, what to say? I very much enjoyed his comments as some explored nuances and twists I had never considered. As a result of hearing them, I have become a little smarter as to what might be going on around me. I intend to go back and copy some of them – just to get a different perspective.
I find it rather interesting that almost to the day that we learned that Whiskey had been sent to the woodshed, we learned that the Eric Holder Justice department was perhaps acting just exactly as he warned us.
Oh, the irony.
Not only that, reading the comments of “some” who have spread their lats and gathered their oratorical speaking voice, “some” have brought new meaning to the word self-satisfied. They, without skipping a step, blustered into “song” saying now…now, that they had always objected to Whiskey’s “rants” and since he was gone, this board would be a much “nicer” place – don’t ya know.
Well no, it won’t necessarily be a nicer place – it will be a place that unfortunately smothered the concept of free speech with back door villainy. You know how you can tell that PC is the coin of the realm? It’s when those who lambast it – employ it. Perhaps in a month, when the political climate changes… once again; perhaps we will deign to eject out of our midst the next miscreant who – perish the thought – advocates the right to bear arms…for whatever that unsavory encouragement might foreshadow. Hell, that too could tarnish our reputation depending upon the changing political climate…. and bit by bit perhaps we might come to the conclusion that none of this really matters after all.
Notwithstanding my position on our colleague, Whiskey, I still support Wretchard’s decision and his honesty. It is his house and his responsibility to ensure his insurance policy does not lapse, so it is his decision to make and I will not doubt his goodwill. My only regret is the vitriol with which he had to work, for it could not be wiped up. Its miasma remains in the air. Better that the “purifiers” remain unknown so that none of us can come to hold various grudges toward…THEM. (”Yeah, that one, he’s most certainly one of them!”)
Lessons Learned: You can’t trust anyone, no how, on the internet or anywhere. So be careful what you say. You might think you can, but there are just too many injured folk who want to take their pain out on someone else.
Hey! Maybe we’re already a gulag! But even John McCain could trust someone.
Funny, even though we now don’t know who our friends are, the totalitarians certainly do and they’re hard at work laughing and carrying on over this – just like the Palestinians on 912. Oh yeah, damage was truly done; we’ve been split and trust lost.
First it was the gypsies, but hey, I wasn’t a gypsy…
looks like that DOJ lawyer who quit over the Philly case, may intend to blow mr Holder out of the water. The lawyer’s name, J. Christian Adam, is enought to make a feller think this stuff is getting Biblical on us.
Well, if Whiskey was here today, I am sure that he’d want us to soldier on… to think what he would do and to, to … ya know do what…. WWWD? Oh that’s right , he isn’t dead. And the Stuff That White People Like is closing around us like a noose! Well I guess it isn’t that bad yet, but just to be sure, let us pray for Obama and the Gypsies. Thiers is no place like Gnome there’s no place like Gnome. This place is turning into a wake. I am sure that WWWD would be to crack open a bottle and muse over things and thank Elvis who has already left the house.
AM/198; This place is turning into a wake. no shzit, man. it’s like, one minute you’re galloping along without a worry in the world, and next minute you hear Custer holler from up front, GOOD LORD AMIGHTY LOOKIT ALL THEM FRICKEN INDIANS
Annoy Mouse (#198): “This place is turning into a wake.”
Tell me about it. If only we had whiskey here to cheer us up with his relentlessly sunny outlook…
I come here to drink whiskey,
not to praise him.
b/200; marc antony, on conquering a vinyard:
“I come to seize your berry, not to praise it”
sd/196, you is braver than i, i wouldn’t dare impute motives to people who buy ink by the barrel –
twoby/194; this Czech guy is visiting a New york mall and decides to duck in the shop and get his eyes checked. Optometrist sits him in the chair and asks him if he can read the eye chart. “Read it?” he answers, “Heck, i KNOW those people!”
A/186; that must be right –i was wrong anyway, Petrobras is PBT. BNP might be a sandwich –bacon nettles and pickles. Tip, have ‘em hold the nettles, it’s MUCH tastier and your face doesn’t swell all up
BNP is a bank
“have ‘em hold the nettles, ”
Amusing fact. Back in my walking in the wilderness days, I’d brush up against a bush of nettles and the burning sensation was a welcome relief. I’d yank them weeds up and and boil for approximately 30 seconds, then prepare for an excellent field salad. No sheet. Not only edible but good tasting!
AM/203; –fond memories –my own walkin around the wilderness days –i ‘did’ the Rockies –and loved it –then hitting mid-20s allowed myself to get shamed into ‘getting real’ because i was ‘wasting time’. Whaaa? i’ve got empty coffee cups been sitting on this desk for longer than i was old, then.
France and the UK; what a reversal of stereotypes!
When I read in the latest thread “RIP Whiskey”, I was afraid that he had died and had to search all over to find this thread and learn what had happened to him.
I am pleased to hear that he is still alive, but greatly saddened to hear that he has been muzzled by, most likely, some thin skinned feminists. What a pity. Whiskey said what he thought needed to be said without fear of the PC police, who unfortunately have won this skirmish. Although I agree that Wretchard has the final say, I think he has made the wrong decision in letting himself be the axeman for a bunch of hypocritical whiners. And I also agree that if any of the complainers had anywhere near the integrity of Whiskey they would expose themselves instead of hiding behind Wrechards apron.
Papa Ray,
Thanks for your remembrances. If you feel inclined, you can contact me at stogramov-at-msn-dot-com. Many developments. I too have been working for our common interests, both locally and in the “belly of the beast. For the last several months its been complicated by additional family responsibilities – folks, old, one each gray in color.
Marie, mon cher (did I get the lingo right?) Accept being a troublemaker, I’m sharing a title I have been assigned on occasion. You understand I do not wish for you to “be disappeared” When you play the poor language card too heavily, I just skip over and wait for a post I can better comprehend. I can also lose my Russian-speaking abilities at strategic moments
Nor do I want to see others tossed down the memory hole. I wonder if some of you I might have met under different names, particularly Mr. X. I think he has some sort of academic or media connections with the Eastern Slavic World.
One of my foibles is my belief that people select their noms-de-blog for some sort of significant reason which would tell about them some clever tale if the code were broken. As with Wretchard, or Habu. Or maybe I just project a bit too much.
AM. @193. I doubt it, particularly since I totally miss your “inside reference” to Mr. Equis.
PR, I’ll confess there’s another reason I do not post more here. Some of these folks are far brighter that I can keep up with. And when I think I don’t know what I’m talking about I keep quiet, if its only somebody else that thinks it, I keep going as its their problem. I try to hang out around people I think are smarter than me about something or other, and hope I can learn something.
In the Spotlight: Spies, and The Media That Loved Them http://goo.gl/fb/FCdFh in Moscow they laugh of the “spy” rumors
Bob,
BNP is talking to the Markets, “tout va bien” (en France), but these poor Brits are in the deep sh*t
and if you read the Brits papers, “tout va bien” (in UK), but these poor eurozone states are in a deep sh*it, especially France with their rooster at the head, that only takes “rigueur” as a oercisive action to reassure the markets
Rurik
unfortunately fer ya, I learnt my “english” with no smart popole, but you could guess their big nuts through their vocabulary, as I am fond of such colorful expression, I can’t attend your smart clubs, uh, not quite, if necessary, I can break some dishes there too