Cults: The Mind Enslaved"Only at times the curtains of the pupil rise without a sound... then a shape enters, slips though the tightened silence... reaches the heart, and dies." - Rainer Rilke
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September 6, 2012 - 2:57 pm
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Jason Beghe is an actor, a Brooklyn tough-guy known for his starring role in the gritty G.I. Jane. In 2008, after fifteen years as a Scientology poster boy, Beghe left the cult and released an interview (embedded below) chronicling his descent into and exodus from L. Ron Hubbard’s bizarre universe.
Beghe’s recruitment, life as a celebrity spokesman, and ultimate rejection of the cult are riveting, particularly for someone like myself who spent nearly thirty years in a cultic religious organization. I was stunned because, even though the doctrines and practices of our respective organizations are so different, I identified perfectly with the mental processes Beghe described. I also believed in a completely irrational worldview and ignored blatant contradictions.
Experts believe people join and remain in cults for similar motives regardless of variations in cult lifestyles and teaching. Harder to find in scholarly research is an explanation of how or why people in wildly differing cults exhibit such similar mental and emotional symptoms.
A potential answer is found in “Confessions of a Coward,” a brilliant article by PJ Media columnist David P. Goldman. Published by First Things, the piece reveals that the scathing political and economic commentaries by “Spengler” actually flowed from Goldman’s eloquent pen. Confiding the story of his return to the practice of Judaism, Goldman admits that from 1976-1986 a compulsion to escape his Jewish identity and find post-1960s structure left him vulnerable to the overtures of the cult leader Lyndon LaRouche.
The Vietnam War, the crisis in race relations, and the cracks in the economic structure of the 1970s persuaded us that we had to do something and that indifference was morally inexcusable. And that is where LaRouche had us. His intellectual method resembled the old tale about stone soup: Having announced that he had the inside track on the hidden knowledge that underlay Western civilization (one of his essays was titled The Secrets Known Only to the Inner Elites,) he attracted a small parade of intellectual orphans, whom he then put to elaborating the details.
The first time I read Goldman’s description of LaRouches’s “soup,” my blood froze:
LaRouche claimed to trace a tradition of secret knowledge across the ages…in LaRouche’s Manichean view of the world, a conspiracy had suppressed the truth in the service of evil oligarchs…the Rockefellers, and the Trilateral Commission all figured variously in this grand conspiracy against LaRouche’s supposed intellectual antecedents. Jewish banking families kept popping up in LaRouche’s accounts of the evil forces.
The worldview promoted by the organization in which I spent my youth mirrors LaRouche’s, but it was not the content that gripped me. What truly leaped off the screen of Goldman’s Confessions was a clue about how cults produce this profound psychological effect that can grab even the brightest of minds into a “cult syndrome.” Goldman exposes what happens when when the “Gnostic Mind” meets reality:
You might think—you should think—that this (LaRouche’s Antisemitism) would have sent us running for the exits. But, Godless and faithless, we were all possessed by a fear of being Jewish, and LaRouche offered us a rock to hide under. In a Carto-influenced article LaRouche later tried to suppress, he put the number of Jewish dead at around 1.5 million. I knew about all this, and I looked the other way. LaRouche took my quantitative study and combined it with the paranoid musings of other researchers into a book, Dope, Inc., that had unmistakable anti-Semitic overtones. I knew about this, too, and again I looked the other way.
Thank you Mrs. Pryor for this article. While I have not been involved in a cult, I have known a few persons who were. As you described, they were very vulnerable when they were attracted by cults, or they wanted “a sense of importance.” Some of them were lonely college students, away from home for the first time. Others were middle-aged, intelligent adults, who were for some reason or another in a vulnerable position. The cult provided the “family” which they were missing.
And thank you, PJMedia, for including this article. It is a very welcome alternative to the many snarky, flippant, obscene and in-your-face writings that have been on display here for a while.
Snarky, flippant? Or truthful? Egil, don’t be so afraid of those who dare to get “in your face” with the truth. It’s not time to make friends or seek a consensus with those who wish to destroy the very things we love. There comes a time to grit your teeth, speak the truth, and stare harshly at your antagonist. That time is upon us.
I tried several hours ago, LovelyEarth, to reply to you, but my reply hasn’t appeared yet, so I’ll try again. I’m sorry to veer so far off topic from the article but I wanted to set the record straight:
In my last paragraph at #1, I was referring to the writing styles at PJMedia. Many writers here are very thoughtful and eloquent, but lately some have written in an obnoxious style. An example that comes quickly to mind is an article about trying to have more vivid dreams, which contained obscenities and other offensive material. If you saw it you would know what I mean. And I do enjoy humor, but snarkiness has gotten quite old, and female writers who try to appear macho are not a pretty sight! In my previous comment I wanted to commend PJMedia for posting an article like this one that is more serious and thoughtful than some others have been recently. I appreciate that David Swindle is trying to reach a wide audience with articles on a variety of topics and in a variety of styles. That is a good thing in general, but I would like to encourage high writing standards also.
I agree with you 100%, LovelyEarth, when you say “there comes a time to grit your teeth, speak the truth, and stare harshly at your antagonist. That time is upon us.” I’m a conservative Christian, and I believe the USA is at the edge of a cliff, with a sizeable minority happily ready to push us over that edge. As Sherab Zangpo states, Nihilism is a terribly powerful force right now, along with very destructive Leftist ideologies. I’m fed up with how the GOP has dithered, succumbed to Political Correctness and not spoken forcefully enough. If that continues, and if those of us who believe in our Constitution lose much more political power, then our country will be destroyed. But some evangelicals and others on our side do more harm than good with the tactics that they use. Yes, we do need to stand our ground and speak our mind, but let’s not adopt methods that make us look like fools. Let’s also not be like many churches have been, who embrace much of popular culture to appear welcoming or hip, or to be able to have their cake and eat it too, while in the process they throw out reverence and Biblical truth.
I recently read another commentator say that William F. Buckley and other old-fashioned conservatives made a major mistake in not embracing the strident, violent methods of the New Left. Well, two wrongs don’t make a right. And I’ve seen first-hand on college campuses what the shrill, Brownshirt tactics of the Left are like. We need to make sure our message gets out, and we need to turn up the volume, but we still need to communicate and act with integrity.
It may surprise you to learn that the organ started out as an instrument for accompanying bloody gladitorial battles, and that many of today’s “traditional” hymns, having originated as popular tavern songs, were adapted by Martin Luther to be church hymns by putting different lyrics to them. The reason for this was to ensure that the congregants knew the tunes and could sing along. Luther also translated “traditional” Latin hymns into German for the same reason.
Well, since one good non sequitur *deserves another, I’ll respond to yours.
Non of what you have said would surprise most evangelical Christians.
Did you have a point?
*Answer a fool according to his folly, lest you be like him.
in the crowd transfixed by michelle obama’s cooing grown-up baby talk I realized this was a cult scene.
The cult of Obama is real indeed. His followers on in love with him not America. I think I am more frightened about what may happen if he loses the election than if he wins.
I wish that was a fear I could share with you.
A few points – the insane devotion, of over a billion people, to a death cult proves how dangerous cults can be. True, when people think of cults it is usually in Jim Jones type of categories. But no matter.
Also true, the cult around Obama – The One – Obamagnosis – wifey too, and those who are gripped with anti-semitism, not even knowing why, are equally dangerous.
In fact,it is hard to argue with the facts below too -
‘http://adinakutnicki.com/2012/08/25/barack-hussein-obamas-toxic-brew-of-radical-leftism-third-world-fixation-and-devotion-to-islam-addendum-to/ (the words toxic brew were not happenstance) (8/25/12),
‘http://adinakutnicki.com/2012/08/20/western-dhimmis-bow-again-to-islamic-supremacists-when-where-will-this-end-the-jury-is-out-on-said-results-brief-commentary-by-adina-kutnicki/ (8/20/12) and is the bowing down of many westerners NOT cult-like?,
‘http://adinakutnicki.com/2012/07/13/islam-blood-a-groundbreaking-policy-paper-contained-herein-the-world-stands-on-a-precipice-commentary-by-adina-kutnicki-109/ (7/13/12) tell me now…what is Islam if NOT a death cult?
So, if things do not take a sharp u-turn the west will not survive. Period.
A few points – the insane devotion, of over a billion people, to a death cult proves how dangerous cults can be. True, when people think of cults it is usually in Jim Jones type of categories. But no matter.
Equally true, the cultists surrounding Obama – ‘The One’ – ‘Obamagnosis’ – wifey too, and those who are gripped with anti-semitism, not even knowing why, are equally dangerous.
In fact,it is hard to argue with the facts below too, found by googling ‘Adina Kutnicki’-
‘Barack Hussein Obama’s Toxic Brew of Leftism, Third World Fixation & Devotion To Islam (8/25/12)
‘Western Dhimmis Bow Again To Islamic Supremacists…When & Where Will This End’ (8/2012),
‘Islam & Blood’…(a groundbreaking policy paper contained herein)(7/13/12),
Then again, people are free to do/believe as they wish…
Good for you for bringing this up–something opponents of Obama have to deal with in election at the least.
Having been involved in and come out of a cultish organization back in the early 70′s, as so many of us boomers were, I greatly appreciated your essay. My previous involvement had it benefits though because I developed a sixth sense, so to speak, about these things and when I saw Obama’s speech in Berlin back in 2008 and heard the words, “we are the ones we have been waiting for” I knew that this was a cult in the making. The huge crowds he later drew in this country and the adoring and worshipful faces of the attendees only confirmed my impressions that he was a type of Pied Piper as all cult leaders are.
I could say much more but you say it better.
I believe leftism itself is a cult. I can’t immediately recall the exact socialist philosopher by name, but he advocated leveraging peoples’ need to believe in something grand and prophetic into support for socialism; to effectively turn it into a religion. And today, we can see that, despite all of the evidence and obvious systemic flaws in socialism, there are still many faithful “believers”. Jonah Goldberg references this philosopher early on in his book “Liberal Fascism”.
of our country, from all walks of life, are in thrall to a cult leader, these United States are in deep trouble
The Jason Beghe interview video was made by Mark Bunker, who has operated XenuTV for many years, dedicated to showing Scientology’s real nature. The Beghe interview is an interesting look at a “blown” Scientology celebrity (“blown” is the term Scientologists use to describe a sudden loss of faith and departure from the cult).
Scientology celebrity videos are an intersting look into the church, particularly the Tom Cruise rambling crazy video posted by one of the Anonymous folks, a few years back, when Cruise was busily preparing to marry Katie Holmes (after Scientology had mounted a campaign to acquire a new, appropriate wife for him) and jumping on couches, and telling talk show hosts how much he knew about human psychology and how little they did, because he was a good Scientologist.
Mark’s videos of non-celebrity Scientologists are even more damning of this nasty cult. Check out the interviews of the Woodcraft family for some true heartache and bizarre-ness almost too great for normal people to imagine.
http://www.xenutv.com/blog/2008/03/02/astra-woodcraft/
Or his interview with Mike McCloughry, who was once a member of Scientology’s secretive “intelligence” service (yes, a church with a real dirty tricks division to handle and manipulate the media and courts), called Department 20, and describes how he got “good” Scientologists to commit crimes and dirty tricks in attempts to silence and neutralize Scientology’s “enemies.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eTLdUuxE54
Also, Mark is currently making a feature length documentary film about Scientology, called “The Knowledge Report” (named after Scientology’s tattle-tale mechanism, whereby all “crimes” of doubt and uncertainty about the cult, plans of leaving, of helping “suppressives” are reported back to the church by your Scientologist friends, family, or basically, everyone who you’d otherwise expect to trust). I’m sure he would appreciate your support and views.
http://www.knowledgereport-themovie.com/
“Admiration is the daughter of ignorance”. Ben Franklin. All cults are built on the adoration of the leader. Saul Alinsky dedicated his book “Rules For Radicals” to Lucifer, whom he saw as the first radical. He was wrong. Lucifer organized and led the first cult and is the primary source of all those that followed. True leaders invoke inspiration, cult leaders invoke admiration. Whether it’s religion, politics, science, etc. the sheeple mentaltiy has been part of human nature from the beginning. History shows only a handful of men and women who were exempt from this illness. They gave to the world the light of Truth and Reason, “.”but men loved the darkeness more than the Light”,and when you are alone in the dark you will follow any voice who says They know the Way. It is the nature of the beast.
“Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.”
The key there is “to which they are accustomed”.
Two sentences from this article stand out:
AND
What it adds up to is that we need more testimony from those who left cults. More “Why I Left the Left” articles. Every time I hear a Black American foreswearing his former allegiance to Obama and the Democrats, I want Rush or Sean or whomever to ask, “What made you leave?” Unfortunately, they never do.
Rush ask some of those callers what moved them to turn away from the cult
of today’s liberalism.
The explanations have been good ones, because the turn has been arduous and painful and, therefore, authentic.
Mostly the answers have had to do with cognitive dissonance between the words spewed and the behaviors of leftists, or a recognition that dependency is not healthy or even remarking on the impediments the regulation freaks have made to one’s personal business endeavors.
One of the black preachers who called into Rush remarked on the Godlessness of today’s Left, rabidly in evidence this past week.
Liberalism, as espoused today, is a scam. And a cult.
Indeed it is. Leftists of the past at least had an excuse for believing in collectivism: the “bold experiment” had yet to be fully implemented. But now that the 20th Century is fully in our rear-view mirror, we can safely say that the experiment failed in each and every one of the instances it was attempted. The experiment was repeatable, and the results were confirmed many times. Some history books call it the American Century, but, sadly, it was also a century of failed experiments, the cost of which were countless human lives.
In fact, in order for various forms of socialism to self-perpetuate, they must instill cult-like mentalities in their subjects (I chose that word carefully).
With the passing of Rev. Moon last week, I wonder what the Moonies are going to do now?
“Perhaps everything terrible is in its deepest being something helpless that wants help from us.
Rainer Maria Rilke
This is what I see when I stood still on the sands of the great sea ,the great great dragon in the sky and the very day my grand daughter turn 1 years old and i knew the curse of the cult was still on my family-taming dragon instead of slaying is less personal victory feeling but better for understanding so family does not end up leaping from one cult to another cult thinking that is how they find freedom
Did you take your name from Nabokov’s book “Pale Fire”? “I was the shadow of the waxwing slain by the false azure of the windowpane.”
You might not recognize a cult on the way in, but you’ll recognize it on the way out. What happens to Muslims when they try to leave Islam? They’re killed, or at best, ostracized for life.
Fascinating insights. I’m curious – how do you regain a sense that you’ve returned to “normal”? (do you ‘return to normal?)
One of the most peculiar things I ever saw in my time in Hollywood was a bizarre interlude involving the top brass of Scientology. They had come to a post-production facility (I was also doing a session there that day) to do “sweat removal” from a one hour video by their leader. The video was intended for world-wide closed-circuit broadcast, and was being treated as ‘top secret’. I gathered it was intended as the keynote in some kind of annual ‘State of The Church of Scientology’ affair. The cost of going frame by frame to hand remove sweat would have easily run into many tens of thousands of dollareps, but there they were.
The facility was sworn to secrecy, but I was under no obligation whatsoever. While my session proceeded I secretly watched their video feed as it was painstakingly gone through frame by frame by hand. Back in the day (early 90s), automated image processing was relatively primitive. Someone had to go frame by frame and hand paint the torrent of sweat dripping from this man’s face. It was nuts.
The video itself was frightening. For a solid hour without break this steely looking man spoke with a very affected manner. He stared. He never seemed to blink or move.. The camera was parked as if in front of a hostage. Aimed slightly up from a lower position, the angle depicted the leader focusing slightly above the lens and off into the distance. This conveyed an impression of someone addressing you staring over your head and off into the far distance. No doubt this was intended to create an image of grandeur, of someone, a visionary, speaking past you and to the ages. It was all MOS on my feed, which means ‘without sound’. For me as an outsider, it allowed for scrutinizing Scientology’s Leader’s mannerisms like he was under a microscope. He looked to me like an agitated, mentally ill person in a fugue state, mesmerized, unblinking, blinkered and in an agitated dream state. The sweat and contrast-y lighting made him also look sinister beyond belief. Though sweat could be seen dripping off his face in torrents and was visible in every frame, he never gestured to wipe it away. His face had a fevered sheen to it. I constantly wondered why they didn’t just create a more hospitable environment for the speaker, cooler lighting, perhaps a fan, and begin the taping again. I suppose you don’t do that with a cult leader.
The Scientologists present were freakish too. They all wore, and I kid you not, these cheesy quasi-military looking uniforms straight out of Star Trek Next Gereation. There appeared to be ranks, as indicated by little differences in piping and little tiny pin-like badges. These were apparently the top eschelons of the CoS in Los Angeles, which I believe is their world headquarters. Their mannerisms were bizarre too – no blinking – staring intently, stiff affected mannerisms, etc. One thing that really creeped me out was their eyes and the way they used them. If they were speaking to you, they took strenuous efforts to maintain eye contact with you at all times. If I looked elsewhere while speaking, they’s actually move their entire body to place their face back on perpendicular axis with my own. This almost became a little game i played to see how far they’d go. Pretty far.
Anyway, there’s more to the story, but I’ve already gone on long enough.
I’m still very curious about an x-cult member’s ability to make decisions and have confidence in what you know after you’ve lost yourself so completely into a cult… How do you get beyond it?
Morton, My ex-LC/RC friends tell me that when you’re in, you don’t feel like you’re in a cult. You feel good most of the time because you belong; someone else is making the moral decisions so you feel safe. Leaving is scary! You have to make your own decisions without checking “Americans Against the Tea Party” for your opinion that day. You lost most of your real friends when the cult told you to drop the ones who didn’t advance the cause (like Joe Lieberman, and every conservative in Hollywood), and of course your cult “friends” were only using you. If your friends didn’t abandon you, they’re ahead of you socially, building their own businesses, marrying and having children, paying their own bills (like health care) while you’re just starting out. One way that friends and family can reach out to a cult member is to remind him or her of what he used to enjoy. Did he have hobbies? Humor is another way of reaching the cult member, since most cults frown on humor. Learn the thought-stopping words and phrases and avoid them, or gently introduce them as used in the general population (“One of the most common reasons for having an abortion is ‘I didn’t think I had a CHOICE’”)
Great story. It seems like Scientology skews to the dorky side of the bell curve. In the bible they talk about worshiping false idols. L.Ron and LaRouche are false idols.
Calfornia street and prison gangs are cults for the high testosterone side of the ledger. Homeboys would never succumb to wearing star trek garb. They would beat down such people like a cat plays with a mouse. But Homeboys can be seduced by sex and power. Girls like the gangster boys. It is also intoxicating to be feared by non gangters. The cost — your soul and jail/prison.
Southern California Gangsters speak of the “Sureno” Cause. Northern Mexicans speak of the “Northern Cause”. There ain’t no cause. There are few guys at the top getting rich or enjoying lots of power. The “true believers” just ruin their lives.
I know guys who are caught up in this. They really love their homeboys. Their gang means everything to them. I no longer mean “crap” to them. If I see them on the street they prefer to ignore me.
In the case of streetgangs it gets you while you are still a kid, so you have a chance to get out as you get older.
So Ms Pryor, I’ll assume that your devotion to a “cult” for 30 some years has left you with the belief that those dedicated to Christ are slaves to a cult? Judging from the last video of the little girl with the microphone? I don’t know what “cult” you were a member of (maybe an evangelical cult?). But not all that proscribe to a belief and live their lives according to the tenets of that belief are members of some cult. As a Christian, I try to do what God tells me to do. I try to say what God tells me to say. I believe in the divinity of Christ Jesus. I think the rational mind is just fine with the ideas that we should love our neighbor, do good to one another, and love a loving God. There is truth and there are lies. Typically the lies have no evidence, yet the truth can be attested to, as you relate in your article. I know Christ exists, as I have experienced Him in my life, I read about his witnessed miracles. So I wonder, to you is a devote Christian engaged in a “cult”? I’m left wondering……
There I was last night in the great great beauty of the 8th restful heaven , when in the direction of the 9th heaven a great and mighty angel arrive a Male looking angel and this Angel was so large his left wing was across the sky then over my head and no one bother to look up but I see the sail boat that came in and people on sail boat always are looking in the sky so I wonder but then I feel like Jonah because the last time such a big angel came to me on the USA border was Dec 1988 and this was impossible to endure what came next except that God was with me and protect my life so I live another 24 years so far.
All that God is after is repentance from sin not to be perfect but want to be perfect before God but know we are sinners in need of redemption from sin. How do we do this? Through the fire love of Jesus I believe and by putting all this world in the hands of God and not our own hands where man can be misled to think he is something he is not
my prayer:
Please God be very very kind to us because it is a very fearful thing to fall into your hands but hope is always renewed in your hands
Ms Pryor is a Catholic (some Protestants don’t consider us to be Christian, not sure where you are with that). There are several subgroups within the Catholic church that are currently problematic and are being investigated and many ex-members report a cultlike experience. Some operate outside the Church (like Polish National), some from within (Opus Dei, Neocats).
One thing they have in common is that they think they’re “more Catholic” than anyone else which is of course a huge red flag for a Catholic because humility is the most important virtue and pride is the worst Deadly Sin so a pride-based group isn’t likely to turn out to be Catholic after all.
Unless this is some of your parody that I’m not getting, in which case: never mind lol.
No, no….my post was not parody at all (as is typical). You can rest assured that anything I post on things like faith, religion and abortion will not be parody. I was concerned with the last video at the end of Ms. Pryor’s article; the one with the little girl holding a microphone. The video itself shows a group of young kids, eyes closed, arms raised, swaying, as a heavy set woman speaks things to them such as “You will say what God wants you to say”. As Christian, I found it a bit concerning. If you took the word God out of the video and replaced it with L. Ron Hubbard (or whatever his name was), I would have become upset. But, it remains that the children were being taught to worship Christ. Maybe not how I would go about it, but Christ worship nonetheless. My question concerned whether or not Ms. Pryor (who has yet to respond) finds Christianity a “cult”. I think not, especially since I now know she is a Catholic. Still, being a born again Catholic myself, I can see how aspects of Evangelical worship are a bit scary. Is that the word? Scary? And does that fear lead us to label something as being cultish? And that is my dilemma…when does something that is true at it’s core, specifically that Christ is the Savior, become cult-like through the application of faith in that truth?
Dear Lovely Earth,
I am a Roman Catholic so, no, I don’t believe that those who are dedicated to Christ are in a cult. The reason I included the Jesus Camp clip is because it is a great example of internal contradiction. The core idea of Christianity is that we are, in Christ, the beloved adopted children of God. We have “not been given a spirit of fear, but of adoption by which we cry, ‘Abba, Father.’”
The primary motivation used on the children in the movie is fear, totally opposed to the core value of this spirit of love and adoption. The internal contradiction between authentic Christianity and the cult in the movie is clear and a logical Christian should be able to spot this and act on it. Children can’t see this as clearly as adults, so the Camp is worse.
Thanks for your response. You make total sense. Watching that video alerted my “spidey-sense”…I just “felt” that there was something wrong with the approach. My confusion is this: when does a realization of truth spin into cult or unhealthy behavior? I love Christ, yet I can see where people who feel the same way I do begin to enter a weird sort of existence. For instance, it’s quite acceptable to proclaim a love for Christ and be willing to help others in their journey. It’s quite another thing to demand that others accept Christ! I hope I’m on the right track here…..Thanks for your help!
Lovely,
If you’re looking at the Catholic Church, the site I mentioned elsewhere is useful: Pete Vere/Francis Morrissey’s “20 Signs of a Cult” on the ICSA site (I think I said 15 before, but Pete had added 5 more).
One thing I’m seeing is that the definition of a cult is usually a subjective call. “High pressure to join” would be a lot different for a type-A person living in Manhattan than for an introvert in rural Wyoming. And, see Angie and the other Jeanette’s exchange below; some people are able to just discard goofy ideas and aren’t sucked in, while others are quite harmed. Also, in the LC cult at least, important people are treated a lot differently so they don’t see the damage that others suffered, and there are also “useful idiots” who don’t actually join but are lovebombed so that they have a wonderful impression of the group. So “when is it a cult?” is a difficult question but you shouldn’t shy away from calling a group a cult if it is to you, so that others can make an informed decision about whether to get involved.
We do need to be careful about how we are using the word, “cult”.
The current popular (mis)understanding of the word is something like this:
A cult is a group of very emotionally unhealthy people who are controlled by a powerful group or person, who subvert their reason to the teachings of the cult, and who commonly separate themselves from family & friends, and instead invest all their emotional attachments, and even their very identity, in the group.
The classic (and correct) definition is simply an identifiable subgroup within a larger group, with beliefs that are compatible with, but still somewhat different from, the main group. This difference may simply be a matter of having a different emphasis on particular doctrines.
Thus, the Jesuits are properly considered a cult of the RCC, as Baptists are properly a cult of Protestantism (which is itself a cult of Christianity).
The first definition is the common one (due to the dumbing down of our language), and is clearly what’s being discussed here. It’s also clearly a pejorative, which the second is NOT.
The second should be noted, however, particularly when discussing the Roman Catholic Church, as it does have cults in the classic sense. For example, well-educated Romanists may well boast of being “of the cult of Mary”. This isn’t a cult at ALL in the current pejorative sense of the word.
I mention this because, if someone were to do a search on “Cults Roman Catholic Church”, he or she might be confused by the results.
However, I think it’s pretty clear that the author here is talking about the other kind like SSPX, Scientology, Legion of Christ, etc. You don’t have support groups for recovering Dominicans or Presbyterians.
Most people think of a “cult” as some aberrational group from mainline Christianity. But in fact every Christian denomination started out being considered an heretical aberration from the previous one. Most were severely persecuted by the ones in power. Religion has always been about controlling it’s adherents. Since it’s source is supposedly God, it’s “revelations” are above question or criticism – to question the Bible or any doctrine is to question God.
With the advent of the Enlightenment, science began to replace supernatural explanations of things with natural ones, for which the Church also persecuted them for centuries. When it became obvious that they could no longer supress the truth, the leaders of both the Catholic and Protestant churches began to compromise and attempt to make their interpretations of Scripture agree with the established facts of science.
Also with the Enlightenment came the concepts of natural rights and the ability, through reason, of each individual to govern themselves,which resulted in a further undermining of the authority of both the Church and the monarchies, and the establishment of our Constitutionally limited government.
It’s actually thanks to the influence of Rationalism and science that most churches are now less cult-like and allow any freedom of thought or opinion.
But the religious influences on the way we think are still there. This article points out that “cults promote a non-human way of knowing that bypasses both the sensory evidence we gather and the individual’s rational processing.” Is this not echoed in the popular Biblical ideas, “we walk by faith, not by sight”, “the Bible says it, I believe it, that settles it”, “lean not on your own understanding…” Cults may emphasise this more than mainline churches, but the basic mentality is there in both. Thats why we still have many Christians who are actually in favor of banning the teaching of evolution, which is no longer a theory, but a proven fact. Yet they oppose it in spite of the facts, because it threatens the basis of their faith, the “inerrant” authority of the Bible.
My name somehow fell off the previous post.
I should add that I was also involved in a “cultlike” Christian group when I was young (college). Part of the “Shepherding” movement that was popular in those days. After exiting that I tried more traditional denominations, but found, as I stated earlier, that the same mentality is present in all churches, since they all have the same origins.
Once a person consciously repudiates his or her own mind, defending against intruding reality becomes imperative… Anyone who threatens the unity of thought is deemed an enemy
Charmed, I’m sure.
There’s an ego appeal in Scientology, where someone designated a highest level Thetan like Tom Cruise is taught he/she has special powers and abilities well beyond other humans.
That must have gotten kind of old to his couple of wives.
Adults making choices is one thing, but Nurse Ratched in the last video has no business doing that to children.
It doesn’t hurt their cause that, by some accounts of people in Hollywood, is that Tom Cruise is an incredibly dense and not too bright individual who happens to be very charming and intense in person. A perfect face for a powerful business masquerading as a religon, conceived by a mediocre science fiction writer who admitted to making the whole thing up.
I’m not aware of any credible evidence that he admitted to making the whole thing up. If you can supply some documentation, it would be appreciated.
What IS well documented is that he was often heard to comment that the best way to get rich was to invent a religion.
This was typically heard in the context of him complaining about his lack of success as a sci-fi writer, since he wasn’t very good at it.
Actually, he was pathetic at it, but would never face that fact. Typical of a loser.
While there are plenty extreme examples of large cults capturing the minds of even the highly intelligent, the subtler examples are all the more remarkable.
Can it be denied that cultish/gnostic epistemology has dominated among the intellectual and political elites for most of history, and that it is used – through superstition, religion, nationalism, tribalism, etc. – effectively to establish the social order?
We talk about the left wing cult, but what about the right wing one? For example, there is ample evidence that many important figures associated with the founding of the modern international power structure in the West were intimately involved in actual gnostic cults (even the benign freemasonry is guilty of cloaking knowledge behind curtains guarded by hierarchies, essentially stinking of that age old practice of appropriating knowledge and it’s associated ‘power’ into a chain of authority, the essential tool of tyrants and cultists in controlling masses, by making them intellectually and spiritually dependent before even physical dependence).
Conservatives are well aware of left-wing conspiracy: take international Marxism, or the eugenics of the Progressives. Many might not be surprised if the discovered that many participants in these movements also were involved in gnostic cults of one variety or another.
But what about the rather well known involement of the Bush family, for example, in all manner of gnostic cults? That’s not to say all gnostic cults are connected, and involvement in any implies participation in some hidden conspiracy. But why are we okay we this? That is, so many of our leaders participating in these cults? Call it an epistemological litmus test.
Mr. President (perhaps all or each and every of them), what about freemasonry, or Bohemian Grove, or skull and bones? Yes, perhaps ALL are benign, but why would someone with a healthy, rational epistemology, and a healthy faith in heaven participate in these type of things?
When I severed my ties to a certain former religion that some consider cult-like, I learned that while I wouldn’t reveal certain secrets callously out of respect, that my epistemological eliberation meant that said secrets had lost their sacredness to me. And so Kerry and Bush can’t talk about skull and bones because…. it’s just some big joke for snooty rich kids? Or perhaps, as President, one would see the need to at least elaborate.
Not to make a big issue of something like skull and bones. It’s only that Gnostic epistemology is THE means of social/political mind control throughout history, even from a technocratic perspective.
By its nature, Gnosticism relies on secrets, exists by creating the impression that those secrets have power, and creates that impression by use of mind control techniques on – especially – intelligent people. We can see this pattern in cult like organizations, so should we not be watchful for it in society at large?
I know LaRouche is what he is. Despite the obsession with Jews, I wouldn’t say that he owned the insights he had about global banking. Irrespective of the ethnicity of those behind it, the global banking cartel is tremendously powerful. More than anything else, it is remarkable how conspicuous it’s lack of transparency truly is. Given the obvious structural issues with the US economy, its hard not to see the role of the postwar dollar in creating a very real and unaccountable world order. America WAS great before the New Dealers and liberals and progressives dismantled it, nonetheless much of our prosperity during the American century was based on a fraud of international proportions.
So, as we debate ineffectual tax hikes (vs. an insurmountable deficit) on one side, and social issues that for better or worse are highly divisive, our global financial system appears to be collapsing, and the world that awaits us – the light at the end of the tunnel – is being crafted in secret and will be ready for us the moment the crisis is so severe we’ll accept any compromise.
As conservatives, we’re motivated, emotionally, by buzz words and key issues. Stopping the Muslim menace, protecting God’s earthly kingdom and its institution against the atheist horde – these activate our passions. But perhaps God can handle His own, and perhaps we can tolerate a little danger in the world.
Perhaps we are basically letting our country be destroyed because of our devotion to the cult of conservatism. Oh, mostly seemingly good, but nevertheless gnostic to the point where we become controlled by a system and blind to the way out.
I’m not trying to pretend that I don’t have an agenda here, but I think my point is worth considering. And besides, the issue is very relevant to me.
Masons are relatively benign in the US, but in other countries are not. In Mexico, for example, the Cristero War in the 1920′s was due to the Masonic government’s persecution of Catholics.
I certainly hope, for whatever her past tribulations, that Jeanette Pryor was not left with the impression that this last video is representative of Evangelical Christianity. Nothing could be further from the truth. Add to the fact, that examples like this are continually used as a club by the mainstream media to marginalize millions of Americans like myself, it gets rather tiring. It’s also a blatant form of rank propaganda – the same form of propaganda used by humanists of the Left.
That video of Jesus Camp is child abuse and a counterfeit practice. But the implication by the author leaves a really bad taste in my mouth after a rather interesting read. When I read a bio of “growth of antisemitism and misogyny in conservative organizations”, a red flag immediately goes up that were in for some rather brash and wholly exaggerated tales accompanied by misandry and Christian bigotry.
Why is it at PJ Media far more often than not, David Jeremiah, or Billy Graham, or Timothy M. Dolan, true leaders of the Evangelical community are never referenced, but some dimwitted, pretentious hypocrite and abuser of children is?
The owners and editing content of PJ Media, a service I happen to like and admire, need to give some serious thought to a little perspective to counter the implication this article leaves.
American Christianity is thoroughly infected with various errors and outright heresies. Research the historical Christian heresies of Gnosticism, Pelagianism, Arminianism, and Socinianism. The vast majority of evangelical and pentecostal churches in America display one or sometimes all of these serious theological errors. Evangelicals deny original sin and reduce salvation to a “choice”. Jehovah’s Witnesses deny the deity of Christ and nullify the Gospel. The Mormons have adopted an odd mix of works righteousness, denial of the deity of Christ, and aspiring Godhood…the latter of which was first introduced by old Lucifer himself.
And almost as bad, we have the Joel Osteens and Rick Warrens of the world who think the Gospel is either a means to earthly riches or to having your best life now. Their ilk has reduced the Gospel to a self-help book.
We also made the error of attempting to change a decaying culture via the political process. Instead of focusing on the Great Commission and allowing God to change hearts and minds through our sharing of the Gospel, the method has been to try and place the “right” people in power so that they would change the laws to fit a Christian worldview. It is clear enough that this has had the opposite result.
It is truly sad to see one who was at one time “of one mind and one way of thinking” with another person, change so much as to become nearly unrecognizable. Sometimes people can be hurt so deeply that they lash out and become extremely bitter. Here, what is called a “cult” is a group of people, most of whom are simply trying to save their souls and their chidren’s souls by the best means they see possible. I am sure there are some very “cultish” minded people who are connected with the organization, but for the most part the greater percentage are good people, making an extra effort to keep the faith. Many of these people are my friends who certainly don’t deserve to be lumped in with a bunch of anti-semites and imbibers of kool-aid.
I hope that someday there is a way for a person whose pendulum of life has swung in two such extreme directions, to land somewhere in the middle. The exteme difficulties of the past sometimes cause us to close our mind to everything, even to the truth that was there. I will always pray that that truth is allowed to someday be brought again to light and a more balanced view of what truly caused the misery and unhappiness in former years then will be obtained. A true friend, always.
(I have no new contact information, thus the reply to this post was the only way to communicate.)
I’ve been involved in helping ex-members of the Legion of Christ/Regnum Christi cult recover, and to spread awareness of this cult, for the past seven years. Your post looks extremely familiar; it could have been written by a still-in RC member. I don’t know the “thought-stopping” words or phrases of your cult as well as I do for LC/RC or Democrats (“choice”, “Koch Brothers” or whoever the Democrat’s latest “Emmanuel Goldstein” is, etc) but I recognize the phrasing pattern, the innuendo. I strongly urge you to investigate ICSA’s website, especially Pete Vere and Francis Morrissey’s “15 Signs of a Cult” to see if you are in a cult. We’re all trying to get to heaven; it’s your chosen vehicle we’re concerned about.
Dear Angie,
I am so sorry we have lost touch. Please “Friend” me on FB so we can talk.
Everything that formed the core of our personalities and friendship; our Catholic Faith, love of family, our values, cultural tastes, and yes, our mutual disdain for Caroline Bingley, is unchanged. I believe the same Credo as you.
I have changed nothing that matters, yet you say I am unrecognizable. Is it possible to be a Catholic and not be in the Society? If it is, how is it that you now look on me as extreme and bitter? You are not angry because I attack core of the Faith, but because I reject the SSPX as the only way to live and be a follower of Christ.
Cults are not just the Jim Jones Kool-Aid stereotypes. You speak of the taught and tolerated Antisemitism in the SSPX as though it is dismissible, part of “the fringe.” It doesn’t matter to you that by being in the group you legitimize Antisemitism and misogyny. You won’t practice them, but you promote them by being there. Your children risk embracing them like the boys of St. Mary’s who proudly held the Confederate Flag during Mass though it is the symbol of racism and slavery.
I left the group because I wanted to be a Roman Catholic without the extreme geo-political ideology. Fr. Novak said in St. Mary’s, “We know Americans can’t be Catholics. It is time for Catholics to ask themselves if they can be American.” A perfect example of insanity you close your mind to instead of protecting your children’s love of America by leaving.
Cults are full of good people with noble intentions. It is the good that attracted and keeps you. The nature of the Cult-Mind is on full display in your post. You tolerate many ideas that I know you disagree with and find abhorrent. You do so because you think you can’t be Catholic outside. Outside, you are me – unrecognizable and despised though essentially unchanged in anything that should matter to the amazing woman you really are.
Dear Jeanette, I am not on Facebook but will be shortly, I haven’t just for lack of time, for which my sister keeps getting on me.
First of all, I guess I just want to know what is ‘angry’ about my post; I am not sure where you see that. I thought you would have noticed the true concern for an old, dear friend. I haven’t said much over the years while watching these changes slowly occurring, mostly to avoid the unpleasantness of being in a confrontation with you.
If you remember anything about me, you should know that I am a very independent thinker like my mother, God rest her soul. If the Society dropped off the planet tomorrow, I would remain just as much a core Catholic as I am today, as the Society is not the Church.
You say in your post how cult members “rely on the group for their emotional needs…” no, Jeanette, YOU relied on them because of some misfortunes in some close relationships in your life. That is what makes me the saddest, is that you are blaming the Society for something that they had nothing ultimately to do with except that you happened to attend their churches.
As you should know, the mission statement of the Society or it’s actual founding principles do not include the false political ideas that some members (which, don’t forget, lay people are not) have preached in the past and perhaps are still preaching. I don’ t “tolerate” anything, those people will be accountable for their false beliefs and teachings on judgement day, I do not hold them. If the Society were to change its core principles to something I could not hold to in conscience and still attend their churches, I would be gone the next day. This has not happened. Unlike you, I do not “rely on the group for my emotional needs.” Please, don’t cheapen the things – the truths – our relationship was based on by accusing me of being in “my cult mind” while we were close friends
Life is all about balance, as you and I have talked about so much over the years. I think you are allowing your emotions to tip the scales for you right now, and have done over the past several years. I hate to see this, as you are an extremely intelligent person. My observation of your being “nearly unrecognizable” has nothing to do with your not attending a Society church.
I am a “Roman Catholic without the extreme geo-political ideology” and I am an American who has loved my country with the same love instilled in me for it by my parents when I was a child – even more.
I will be in touch on Facebook. Take care, your friend always, Ang
Dear Angie,
Don’t worry, this is not going to become a ping pong match! Julie is right, FB needs you and I need pictures of your kids!
I stopped going to SSPX Mass and pulled my children from the school because of intellectual disagreements with the teaching to which I was exposed. Before the US district became dominated by priests formed by Bishop Williamson, we were totally loyal and true believers in the stated mission of the SSPX. The group was our life and we never doubted it being the “truth,” let alone ever imagined leaving.
We began to separate ourselves when we realized that the leadership knew about the terrible errors being taught to the faithful as well as the ties between many of the priests and the neo-fascist movement of Forza Nuova, John Sharpe and the European neo-Nazis. When we saw no attempt to protect the faithful from this insanity, we realized to our horror that this extremism was really what the SSPX was about. If not, why would they protect the Holocaust deniers and the Truthers etc?
This has been the great sorrow of my life, but the agony was a consequence of my intellectual detachment from the SSPX, not its cause.
Yes, you and T. are more balanced and independent people. What would your lives look like if you implemented all the teachings of the priests you have had in the parish?
Remember Fr. VanderPutten, later sent to Ireland because he was wanted in the US for rape of a girl sent to an SSPX retreat? Remember his “spiritual” letters telling the faithful not to marry because “the Chastisement” was coming? We laughed about this suggestion because we knew it was insane. But many did not laugh. For many people, once the priest said something it was God’s will. And the superiors left him in place for years though they were told of his imbalanced teachings. It took me years to go to college after leaving the convent because I was taught by the SSPX that “Ideas are not for girls and since college is about ideas, almost no girl should go to college.”
You were lucky to ignore the teaching of the leaders, I was not so. People who follow the teaching, as I did, become extreme. And you tell me now that the SSPX is responsible for nothing I learned during the 30 years I was under its influence.
I have written about the experiences with the SSPX because I believe the organization, in spite of its many good people, promotes a cultic mentality. This mentality prevents people from understanding the true nature of Our Lord and His Church. I believe that great human potential is wasted and unnecessary suffering is caused by the group. I recognize that I was not harmed deliberately, but was badly influenced nonetheless. I hope to warn others and offer understanding to people who may need support after similar experiences.
So how can you attend the Novus Ordo Mass or be a part of ANY religious organization? They are all occupied by men tainted with sin. Why do you forgive the sexual abuse and erroneous teachings of the N.O and attack one pervert in the SSPX? Double standard maybe?
Angie:
Your post was not honest. You took an article on Scientology to speak about your insignificant group. Then you close by saying that you had no other way to contact Jeanette. Our email has not changed since the last time you emailed us. You also are very well aware that you go to Mass every Sunday with Jeanette’s brother. No, you wanted to make a typical SSPX public declaration. People can judge by themselves whether the SSPX is a cult or not. Here is a link to a group of sermons by an SSPX priest. He may be leaving the organization, but people like him are the rule and not the exception. http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=fr.+pfeiffer+sspx&view=detail&mid=36E04227E9384C3FBBAA36E04227E9384C3FBBAA&first=0
Mr Pryor,
“Deceit for the sake of the Kingdom” is another sign of a cult. Islam calls it taqiyyah, liberalism called it “misleading but legally accurate” during the Clinton administration, the LC has “discretion” and I remember seeing that Scientology has some kind of truth squad or something, right?
This. Isn’t. Catholicism. The most recent ICSA convention was this past summer in Montreal, but there’s lots of help for those recovering on the website. God bless, and welcome home!
Sex Slaves movie made in 2005 . Where are those girls now?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXRLfMS8IWc
the Jesus camp video made in 2006 . Where are those children now?
Is Islam a cult?
If you try to leave they kill you.
Cult, yes. Ya think?
This article was actually quite readable until I read the paragraph about Building 7, and the the author’s conflation of those who are sceptical of the official story as being some sort of nut jobs.
Who the hell does this bloke think he is to denigrate people who have very legitimate questions to ask as to what happened on that day?
If you can’t be bothered to read the name of an author (Jeanette is not a bloke’s name), your views on anything else are probably just as off. As someone who was in Manhattan at the time of the attacks, all the fake analysis from truthers is disgusting. It does not matter how much evidence is provided, they keep looking for a conspiracy. Yes, I “know” a missile was fired at the Pentagon as well. I would LMFAO if this all was not so tragic. The level of stupidity of our population is astounding.
I have a friend who helped to collect plane fragments from the Pentagon. He carried and stacked them with his own hands. He’s a veteran, and his patriotism and integrity is beyond question.
“Truthers” just tell him he’s lying.
I recall one online debate about the Pentagon wherein a “Truther” pointed out that there were large cable spools in the area, blacked with flame, and those spools “proved” that there was no plane crash, because, being wooden (as we all know, right?) they would have burned up.
When I posted a link to a website of a manufacturer of those spools, complete with specifications showing them to be made of TEN GAUGE STEEL, he simply changed the subject.
The two examples above are typical of “Truther” behavior.
No, James, you do not have “very legitimate questions” to ask.
Those have all been asked, and well answered, a long time ago, by a great many people.
Love consists in this, that two solitudes protect and touch and greet each other.”
Rainer Maria Rilke
on the other hand the two problems are real: People leaving cult just leap to another. Try to unite and kill a monster you may kill a budding good dancer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=co6-tYS9k1U
perhaps we should accept as of today , wolf smile , getting more votes and winning this election and wait until 2016 ?
The video of children speaking tongues was chilling. Joseph Smith Jr had a quite different take on the gift of tongues. Here from lds.org…
“The Gift of Translation (D&C 5:4)
If we have been called by the leaders of the Church to translate the word of the Lord, we can receive a gift to translate beyond our natural ability. As with all gifts, we must live righteously, study hard, and pray to receive it. When we do these things, the Lord causes us to feel a burning inside concerning the correctness of the translation (see D&C 9:8–9). Joseph Smith had the gift of translation when he translated the Book of Mormon. This gift came to him only when he was in tune with the Spirit.”
Chilling?
Yes, very.
Also completely unBiblical. There’s simply nothing in the Bible that looks like what is commonly practiced among Pentacostals.
Just like Joseph Smith’s version of speaking in tongues, it’s a perversion masquerading as the real thing.
As a Traditionalist, I read with great pain your wonderful articles, who will certainly help many people. Thank you for your courageous quest.
I think that the root of all cults is one and the same : nihilism, and its dominant position in the last three centuries.
Nihilism does not produce only atheists full of despair, it pollutes the whole cultural debate.
Nihilism wants us to forget the Truth: God is Infinite Love. The Way is always open, if we remember just that.
Let us pray, let us remember without intermission that God is Infinite Love.
“Nihilism does not produce only atheists full of despair, it pollutes the whole cultural debate.”
Exactly. And you are right about God, Sherab Zangpo.
America’s public education system is failing. We’re spending more money on education but not getting better results for our children. That’s because the machine that runs the K-12 education system isn’t designed to produce better schools. It’s designed to produce more money for unions and more donations for politicians.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVyNlJUKgug
@21, …and digging deeper, who would be at the root of nihilism? Satan?
The Story of Your Enslavement
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xbp6umQT58A&feature=related
“We must, therefore, emphasize that ‘we’ are not the government; the government is not ‘us.’ The government does not in any accurate sense ‘represent’ the majority of the people. But, even if it did, even if 70 percent of the people decided to murder the remaining 30 percent, this would still be murder and would not be voluntary suicide on the part of the slaughtered minority.”
–Murray N Rothbard, Anatomy of the State
For anyone interested here is a good book that deals with cults and cultlike organizations:
Unholy Devotion – Why Cults Lure Christians by Harold L. Bussell
It was written 30 years ago but is still quite pertinent.
Governments sponsor then destroy cults all over the world- One, so they will have something to do. Two, to teach people how wrong they are (thanks, we get it).
Shame that the few cults closest to describing space accurately are attacked by both mainstream science and religion alike, two of the biggest frauds currently operating.
> Is Islam a cult?
FWIW, the pastors at my church (Reformed Presbyterian) defines Islam as a false religion. A cult, on the other hand, is a word reserved for heretical offshoots of Christianity, provided the heresy is extreme enough.
Heresies of Christianity seem to take many forms, but the thing they share in common is that there is always a denial of the Holy Trinity, admittedly the most difficult Christian concept to grasp. God is One and God is Three. Emphasize the One and you wind up with some form of monadic heresy; emphasize the Three and you wind up with some form of polytheism.
God created everything. Christianity holds that Jesus was there and that it was through Him that all things were created. And it holds that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son, and He was there at the beginning, too. I don’t think any human could possibly understand all that this implies, but a Christian is nevertheless required by the tenets of his faith to believe it. Anything short of that, from a Christian perspective, is a cult.
Jehovah’s Witnesses, if memory serves, do not accept Jesus as the Lord Most High, so they are a cult, from the Christian perspective.
Mormons believe there are many gods, and that our God was once a man, and that Jesus was his flesh-and-blood son, and they both somehow worked their way to God-status, as presumably millions of others have done or will do. Either way, it is not the Christian perspective, though many of the characters have the same names. I have Mormon friends and have discovered they get offended whenever I notice out loud that the distance between A and B is the same as the distance between B and A. That is, the Book of Mormon makes it clear that all the other Christian churches are “an abomination”. If we are different from them, why am I not allowed to notice that they are different from us? I am always puzzled that Mormons would care what an abomination of a church like my own would think of them. As for me, I have no problem at all with Mormons (I like them very much, in fact), but only with their theology.
A: You don’t have to be a Jew. Just stop saying you are Jewish.
B: The cult definition applies to all religions.
Through out history there have always been cults. In ancient Rome there was The Cult of Isis for example. However, there seems to be a rise in such cults in the west since the at least the 1960′s. I blame this on the breakdown of mainstream religions . As every knows there has been a push towards atheism in the west. The elites have been trying hard to transform the west into a secular humanist society. What these elites fail to relealize is that you may destroy the religion but you can not destroy the religious impulse. I think such an impulse is in our genes. Something has to fill that void. I remember once reading about the early years of National Socialist Germany where an undercover agent from the exiled Social Democrat party described what the NAZI’s were doing in Germany was “creating a new religion”. Notice also that outspoken Atheists like Richard Dawkins attract a kind of creepy cultish following?
Another problem with cults that is not often addressed is that whenever cults pop up in the news it creates a dubious cottage industry of anti cult con artists like the so called “de-programers” I remember after the Heavens Gate mass suicide there ads in papers for “Certified De-Programers” who promise to deprogram your son/daughter/wife/husband etc for an enormous fees. Certified? By whom? So called experts whose qualifications consisted of takeing a few psycology coarses at a community college at best. One has to wonder if the methods they employ are just harmful as the methods used by cult leaders to brainwash their followers. Perhaps the best con I saw an ad that said for $150.00 you could attened a seminar held by cult expert to ensure that you never get taken in by a cult.
This video of a Mormon Temple Endowment Ceremony is worth your time. It was uploaded last week – a hidden camera reveals what they never wanted us to know – what they call “sacred” but many would argue that’s used as a tool to keep this bizaareness secret: http://youtu.be/5VrsFEiTpsQ
Still the old victimology. I like Anthony Storr in “Feet of Clay”. Revealed religions and cults make the same noises in the same way, but one has a place in the culture, the other not.
The key is simply that you believe as an act of will, and you will never have the experiences or insights claimed by the leadership. You also will be flattered by being special in some way, maybe even to having a longer grope list than the other guys. Even better, nothing is your or your groups fault in any way shape for form. Everything is oppression by EVIL. Storr sees that starting with Zoroaster. You still see it from people like Rabbi Luria who believe that we could help God: my my the ego…
Fine, please yourselves, but anyone who takes his meaning from membership in anything from a union to tribe, is really less, and not more than human: they sell any possibility joy for the comforting slime of the group.
Chris Pryor,
No, I don’t have your email address; my computer crashed and I lost all of my email addresses along with it, as I have an outlook account. Also, I could have spent some time contacting someone who knew it, but I figured since I was already on this website that night, that I would go ahead and reply right then. I am currently awaiting Jeanette’s email address from Stacy W. Who keeps forgetting to send me it. Also, forgive for making assumptions, but Jeanette wrote an article on this same site a few months back where she referred to the SSPX in a similar way as in this article; I assumed the line of thought was continuous. Jeanette did not reply to me with this (your) objection, in fact, quite the opposite; she affirmed my understanding with her reply. I know that we do not know each other that well, but I certainly don’t believe I deserve to be thrown in with the same lot of SSPX church goers that feel the need to make a “typical SSPX declaration.” I have not looked up the link that you are referring to , but it looks like it is sermons from a certain relative of mine. You are sadly misinformed about what mindset makes up the majority of the SSPX – and about what my family’s mindset is – you have been away for a while. I will email you guys as soon as Stacy sends me your email or better yet, if you still have mine, send me a quick note so that I can reply.
Hey- way to call me out Ang!;)
Stacy, sorry, but I was simply stating the truth, which some people now think me uncapable of, apparently because of the address of my church!!??
Good luck Ang and Stacy contacting Jeanette Pryor….when I last tried Chris stepped in and severed communication lines. Note how he steps into her blogspace. How patriarchal! Chris, please let Jeanette be an individual. Jeanette, all your PJmedia articles have obliquely attacked the SSPX. Are you OK? You aren’t mentioning the SSPX response to Bp Williamson’s, Fr. P, and Fr. C’s disobedience, see http://www.SSPX.org. Jeanette, of my 8 young adult nieces (all attend SSPX churches), 4 are in college, 2 are graduates, 2 are working. I have a PhD, tell me again, really…the SSPX is against the education of women? Yes, bad men have been in the SSPX, is it possible bad men could be in good organizations? Please mention the majority, the good everyday “meat and potato” men that feed the poor, comfort the afflicted, make constant sick calls to the elderly, and educate the young! They fight distributism, sedevacantism, and all the other ism’s that poor gullible people get sucked into. The gullible have souls, we don’t kick them to the side, they are permitted to attend mass, and the priests work to convert them from their error. You sound bitter you’ wasted’ years of your life as a nun (“spent 30 years in a cultic religious organization”), try to get over it. Don’t waste the present being bitter. I wish you joy, I wish you peace. Don’t email, call me. My phone number is the same as when I brought you a sippy cup in a snowstorm in a bad neighborhood late at night because Chris was still in New York. Even though you are saying such mean hurtful things, I still consider you a dear friend. God bless. Mary
PS Those that wish to know more should read Archbishop M. Lefebvre’s ‘Open Letter to Confused Catholics’
Dear friends at PJmedia,
Please permit this long post reaching out to Chris and Jeanette, I intended to post it on Chris’ blogsite but he closed it today. With these attacks on the SSPX, I deeply appreciate the public forum to have a small opportunity to show the real face of the SSPX, and the opportunity to reach out to old friends that no longer speak to me. Thanks so much.
Chris you seem to be suffering two separate personalities….on one blog site, the SSPX is an “insignificant group” {1} paling to the importance of Scientology, yet you dedicate almost all the posts of your public blogsite to SSPX (jchristopherpryor@blogspot.com, closed today) with only one reference to the very important Scientology! I was inaccurate {4} in saying all Jeannette’s PJmedia articles obliquely attack the SSPX. But 3 out of her 5 essays attack the ‘insignificant group.’
Both of you imply the SSPX is a cult. Jeanette says she ‘spent 30 years of her life in a cultic organization {1}.’ She didn’t say Celtic, she said cultic. Furthermore you imply the SSPX is a cult because a priest they kicked out has a radical sermon on the internet {1}. Yet, you don’t mention in your many longwinded rants that the SSPX has expelled these priests from the society and publically denounced Bp. Williamson’s actions {2}. Before you cry victim, consider reading your friend’s recommended ICSA 20 signs you are in a cult (posted above). Did any SSPX priest ask you Chris, or you Jeanette for your money? Was sexual misconduct a basis for membership? Chris, did anyone ever tell you to sever yourself from the outside world and not go to law school? Did anyone impose a vow of secrecy on you? I think not.
Do you really think the recently expelled priests are the norm? I guess you weren’t in California in 1989 with the SSPX priest who crossed I 880 right before the quake. He had considerable savings (they don’t take the vow of poverty and he had been an electrician before paying his way to go to the seminary) that he removed from the bank in cash. Then he proceeded to distribute it to parishioners and anyone he saw in dire need. He often had to walk to the damaged places jumping deep crevasses. He brought comfort, prayers, hope, and cash for dinner and a hotel to people whom no longer had a home nor a credit card.
Were you in Mexico in 1994? A SSPX priest belly crawled through the blood and the mud to a teetering wrecked bus dangling off a mountain road to give last rights to the bleeding and dying. The police asked him not to go as the bus was not yet secure with ropes but when a weeping son begged him to give last rights to his elderly dying mother, he went. God preserved him.
Maybe you were in Montana in early 2005 with the SSPX priest who traveled 6 hours to be at the death bed of an old rancher who by the grace of God rethought his decision to leave the Catholic faith 60 years previously. That same SSPX priest chops wood and delivers it to his poor parishioners and feeds them deer meat too!
What about a newly ordained SSPX priest on his first sick call? After seeing the ill parishioner, he passed a weeping man in the hall. He stopped. The man’s wife was dying. He went to her room and heard her life’s story. She spent her early childhood in a Mexican orphanage with good nuns, but was sent to family in the US before she made her First Communion. She always wanted to be a Catholic but never acted on that wish. That night she made her first confession, received First Communion, was confirmed, received matrimony (their kids were the witnesses) and received last rights. She died the next day. The SSPX priest offered a requiem mass and distributed rosaries and scapulars to the large loving family.
Are SSPX members anti-American? I’d like to be there when you tell that to the face of any one of our boys in Afghanistan, Iraq, and scattered, serving our country all over the globe. It was a St. Mary’s boy, military medic, who had the heart to save the life of the Fort Hood jihadist, after the guy had been ready to kill him! What is really sad is you know this, you know these people. Yet Jeanette is writing a series about being a recovering cult member (mentioned in post above)! Why? Do you really think the SSPX prevents women from being educated? See blog comment #36 above {4}
You guys, we used to be friends. Three years ago I wrote to you…
”I am genuinely fond of you guys. I ask difficult questions which take time to construct, but are quickly answered; and you guys don’t reply. If you own and have read the Archbishop’s “Open Letter to Confused Catholics” and still attend an English mass…..well, I have enough intelligence to realize that subject would then be a closed one which we would quietly agree to disagree about! If you don’t own the book, I’d buy it, send it, and wait until you are ready to discuss it. {3}‘’
I am still waiting for a reply. If you are out to save the world from a cult, why not start with an open old friend? Your previous silence makes me think you have different motives. Initially I assumed you had political aspirations that made you feel the need to distance yourself from the SSPX. That can’t be the case, why bother after being gone for five years? I just don’t understand you two. I prefer real conversations rather than following someone trumpeting about their life on facebook, I find facebook annoying. Let’s talk, if you want to de-friend me, you can do it the old fashioned way. Send me a postcard of Arlington with a ‘wish you were here, don’t correspond anymore!’ note. I don’t publish my name on the internet, but you know who I am, I still live across town from Spice Tree apartments, same old address, same old phone. I like to Skype with coffee. It really hurts that you think we are all Kool-aid carrying cult members, we aren’t. But it hurts more that you are both going through so much trouble to say nasty things about the SSPX. Well, here is ‘a typical SSPX public declaration’ {1}, I wish you joy, I wish you peace. I wish you could get back all the hours of time you waste venting bitterness to spend with your kids, teaching them charity, teaching them the Catholic Faith. All that matters is you stay close to God in His Sacraments. God Bless, Mary
1. http://pjmedia.com/lifestyle/2012/09/06/cults-the-mind-enslaved/ see comment #16, 6th reply
2. http://www.SSPX.org
3. Personal email to Chris Nov 2009 (Did he not show it to you Jeanette?)
4. Same as ref 1, comment 36 (also see that SSPX is NOT against the education of women).
I know a Jeanette Pryor but I wasn’t sure this is the Jeanette I know. I looked more closely at the picture, it doesn’t really look like the Jeanette I know. I read her bio and the Jeanette I know was born in New York not California. Also the Jeanette I know was a nun for 10 years. Some of that time was spent in France. During that time as a nun, she endeared herself to many many high school girls who still look up to her but that’s because most of them haven’t read THIS article.
I’m thinking this IS the Jeanette I know after all because like someone else mentioned, the Jeanette I know deleted me as a Facebook friend. Then blocked me after saying she had *left* Facebook. It doesn’t really matter, she will always have a special place in my heart, and I don’t care where she goes to mass.
Toto
Here is part two of Jeanette’s series for all you SSPX cyber-stalkers.
http://pjmedia.com/lifestyle/2012/09/24/escaping-cults-the-mind-enslaved-part-ii/?singlepage=true
Chris, when I am worried about friends and reach out honestly, clearly telling them who I am, does that make me a stalker? I am worried about you. You show two separate personalities. With one breath the SSPX is insignificant (see your post above), with another breath, 3 years of a your blog are dedicated to the SSPX. (maybe you should look at what your other personality has been posting). You have never communicated to me that I am not your friend. You just refuse to talk to me. Seeing posts above, that may be just because I am not a Facebook person, easily de-friended! I will consider myself your friend until I am de-friended, and I am still waiting for that postcard of Arlington mentioned previously!
I think you should consider getting psychological help. You never were in a cult, nobody asked you to stay in the seminary, nobody told you whom to marry (well, a few girls may have told you who you may not marry!). You were encouraged and praised for pursuing your law degree (heard that from our pastor’s mouth with my own two ears, he was talking to you). Maybe you are entangled in a cult now though. Now, you sever yourself from friends. Do you still see family? If you don’t, that is a sign you may currently be involved in a cult.
Ten years ago we were sitting at the same dinner table using Jeanette’s new Christmas plates with cardinals on them that she was so proud of. If you would have predicted the future and told me you would refuse to talk on the phone, make snarky comments about me being a cyberstalker, be silent while your ‘welcome home’ friends insultingly compare His Excellency Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre to Marciel, all while whining on the internet that you and Jeanette were victims of a cult….I would have laughed. But it isn’t funny, it is just sad and tragic. There are real cults that defraud people of their savings, steal their land, and abuse those people. Don’t pretend you suffered any of that, it is an insult to those that have. I can’t tell you how sorry I am that you believe that you have been so terribly wronged. See a good psychologist, get some help.
After that, put on your cute Knights of Columbus feather hat and cape, and be a happy man!
Best wishes always, may you find joy, may you find peace, my love to you and Jeanette and the kids, Mary