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Dr. Helen

Yes, There Are Men Who Like Smart Women, Just not Phony Ones.

February 4th, 2014 - 5:22 am

Just Four Guys has an interesting post up on “Why Women Fail with Men.” The advice basically boils down to: “Be nice. Be pretty. Don’t get fat.Be available.” The author also says:

And for the eleventy billionth time: Men are NOT attracted to your job, your salary, your credentials, your professional achievements, or your accomplishments. Burnishing your curriculum vitae will not help you one iota in finding a man for a lasting relationship. Adding initials after your name denoting advanced degrees or certifications will not help you one iota in finding a man for a lasting relationship.

Okay, some of these points make sense but I have to disagree with a few of them, particularly the latter. I think that it depends on what you are looking for in a relationship. If you are a smart, successful women with lots of credentials, there are men out there who like that and actively seek smart women. What men don’t like is a phony who uses her credentials to look important. I think if a woman is smart and successful but down to earth and “real,” there are plenty of men who like those qualities, credentials included.

What do you think?

Also read: 

Stripping Down for the Motherland

 

Top Rated Comments   
The trouble I see smart women getting into is that they're smart and use it as a weapon. I'm smart but I decided a long time ago that being kind was much more important so that's what I focus on. When I am in a relationship (I am currently single) I would never correct my boyfriend/husband in a mean-spirited way. This was viewed by my exes as a weakness, although it is, in fact, a strength.


10 weeks ago
10 weeks ago Link To Comment
For various reasons I am spending a lot of time talking to single people in their late 20's - early 30's who are spouse hunting. And I am talking to them *about* spouse hunting.
One exchange that happens A LOT is,
[one or more women]: "Tell men to stop being intimidated by my intelligence/success"
[me}: "They aren't. No, trust me, they aren't."
[her/them] : (stunned looks)
I Knowing what the guys were actually complaining about I finally did a little role p-laying with 4 single women. I had each one pretend that they were meeting me for a blind date and that we had agreed via email to start with a brief bio. I went first, pretending to be a widower friend of mine to relax them.
Each of these women, all of whom thought they intimidated men, led with their education and their career. Their future plans? More education, better career. Their life goals? More education, a fulfilling career.
I told them all I wouldn't date them a second time.
"Why not?!"
"None of you mentioned marriage, kids, or a home"
10 weeks ago
10 weeks ago Link To Comment
I've always liked intelligent women.

Lots of American women seem to confuse being aggressive, constantly critical and non-stop argumentative with being intelligent. That's not being intelligent.

If a relaxed, friendly, non-pushy woman can explain why Schrödinger's equation is equivalent to Heisenberg's matrix formulation, I'm in love.

If a tense, angry woman is constantly arguing with ad hominem and sarcastic, nasty responses that are not designed to get to any truth, but to fulfill her aspirations to be a bully, I want to get away from her as fast as I can.
10 weeks ago
10 weeks ago Link To Comment
All Comments   (130)
All Comments   (130)
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Most sociological studies have demonstrated, for both men and women alike, that people tend to seek out mates who have similar socioeconomic backgrounds and similar educational and intelligence levels. Thus, many intelligent women often exclude many potential partners because they are setting their expectations too high. Further pushing the letters behind their names or their high-powered career in the face of potential mates sends the message "you're not good enough for me" to men.
10 weeks ago
10 weeks ago Link To Comment
Fred Reed, a known social conservative expat, has a very reasonable attitude towards women and marriage. A quote from his blog:

American men do not want to oppress women. All the men I know very much like intelligent, educated women who do not wear chadors or burkas. They like athletic, adventurous women with whom they can scuba dive and camp. (My younger daughter got her scuba ticket at age twelve, muchly with her dad’s support.) Many of my male friends have daughters. If any university tried to exclude them because they were girls, a law suit would instantly ensue.

I think most men have similarly reasonable attitudes towards women and marriage.
10 weeks ago
10 weeks ago Link To Comment
Women are more likely than men to confuse credentials with ability/intelligence/competence. There are a lot more people with the former than the latter, male and female, especially in coastal cities.

See also, Dunning-Kruger effect
10 weeks ago
10 weeks ago Link To Comment
Here's a cosmopolitan (hosted on yahoo) article titled "20 ways to please a woman" that is relevant to this discussion.
http://shine.yahoo.com/love-sex/20-ways-please-woman-155600466.html

Note # 9

"Let us watch our Bravo in peace. Better yet, go do something else while we watch. Tease me all you want, but my addiction to Real Housewives of New Jersey doesn't mean I'm not still smarter than you. You know it, I know it."

Pretty much nails the condescending attitude guys are trying to avoid at all costs.
10 weeks ago
10 weeks ago Link To Comment
The sad fact of it is that, despite saying that they want a man of certain qualities, the most important quality above all for a lot of women is the mans bank account being bigger than their own.

And before you rip me ladies, who did you marry and what was his income and prospects at the time?
10 weeks ago
10 weeks ago Link To Comment
Married a man who was working in low-budget films at the time- to help support us over the years he has managed a pizza place, run a computer store, sold vacuum cleaners, and currently runs a customized car business. (All this while still working in video production. Cheap comedies, dramas and SF don't do much to pay the bills, although industrials aren't bad.) If I had only been fixated on his money, do you think I'd have gotten as far as the altar with him? But 25+ years later, we're still happy and still making it.
10 weeks ago
10 weeks ago Link To Comment
I've noticed that whenever anyone posts that "a lot of women" are most focused on the man having more status/prospects/money than they themselves have, the response from women isn't to show that "a lot of women" aren't like that, the response is to show that they themselves are personally not like that. Me, me, me. Look at me, it's a chance to show that I'm personally a good person. I don't care about the actual assertion that was made.

I've made negative comments about housewives, and see the same type of response patterns. One woman said, out of the blue, that she works part-time so she isn't really a housewife. So there, put that in your pipe and smoke it. I never said she personally was a housewife or addressed her in any way, I had just made general comments about housewives.

Strange. But that's entitlement for you.
10 weeks ago
10 weeks ago Link To Comment
You make a good point, but in this instance we're responding to a question from the poster:

"And before you rip me ladies, who did you marry and what was his income and prospects at the time?"
10 weeks ago
10 weeks ago Link To Comment
No you're confusing entitlement with women sharing their stories on a message board.
10 weeks ago
10 weeks ago Link To Comment
Areo nailed the female NAWALT entitlement.
9 weeks ago
9 weeks ago Link To Comment
Reasonable assessment.

10 weeks ago
10 weeks ago Link To Comment
I married a maintenance tech / planner who worked at a manufacturing plant. At the time, his income was about half what mine was. He quit his job when we got married to go to college. His income the entire time we have been married has been $0. He just graduated last spring and is currently looking for work. When he finds a job, he'll likely be making more than when we met, but he won't be making anything close to what I make.

Maybe I'm the exception that proves the rule, but I can say with confidence that I didn't marry for money.
10 weeks ago
10 weeks ago Link To Comment
I married a brilliant, part time writer. I definitely didn't marry for money.
10 weeks ago
10 weeks ago Link To Comment
Yup. Usually women who get mad when they hear things like that are - by the rarest of all coincidences - with a man with substantially better prospects / profession / money.

Same with housewives saying: "if my man was ever unable to work, I'd work at McDonald's if need be to support us". The reality is much different.
10 weeks ago
10 weeks ago Link To Comment
Ultimately, what a man wants is a woman who is concerned primarily with him, and is willing to receive what he has to give. Smart and well educated is one thing, but if she's more concerned with her career than with her family, it's definitely a turn-off.
10 weeks ago
10 weeks ago Link To Comment
comment deleted
9 weeks ago
9 weeks ago Link To Comment
I think if a woman is smart and successful but down to earth and “real,” there are plenty of men who like those qualities, credentials included.

True. And they better have a sense of humor. Most men I know think most women they know have no decent sense of humor.
10 weeks ago
10 weeks ago Link To Comment
"And they (men) better have a sense of humor."--Betina

If she is frequently saying, "Oh, I was only joking!" the problem is not his sense of humor but her insensitive cruelty.
9 weeks ago
9 weeks ago Link To Comment
Men want to be appreciated. We want a woman who actually likes us and feels emotional affection toward us. It seems a lot of women haven't figured that out.
10 weeks ago
10 weeks ago Link To Comment
I think feminism has brainwashed many women into thinking that it's not enough to be smart and intelligent for it's own sake, they also need to be deferred to by the main in their life on any intellectual issue as confirmation of this fact. In essence they want acknowledgement that they are as smart or smarter than you, and constantly try to prove this in a combative way.

What this produces is women who cannot and will not be lead, corrected or taught anything on any issue, even issues they know almost nothing about. Everything becomes a battle, and what's worse is that if you actually are capable of explaining why they are factually wrong on an issue (perhaps one you are an expert in), they escalate what could have been a pleasant exploration of two different positions to a battle for fundamental intellectual validity.

To put it simply- they are terrified of not seeming as smart or smarter than you, as though this represents a fundamental human failing. The root cause of this is insecurity, most likely stemming from the feminist message that woman are not taken as seriously as men in terms of intelligence, leading to a determination to "protect" this right to be taken seriously. When their behavior drives men away, feminism tells them that "men cannot handle a strong independent woman" so they never analyze their behavior and realize it's seriously unpleasant, and so they never change, and often get worse as anger seeps into their interactions with men.

It's very hard to enjoy spending time with women who behave this way. Worse, once they do this a few times, you become reluctant to disagree with them on anything because you know it will be interpreted as a challenge to their fundamental identity and a battle will ensue. Obviously I don't hang out with such women more than once anymore. Whilst I do really enjoy hanging out with smart people, for dating I'm more interested in someone who is open to learning new things and discussing ideas, as opposed to someone who's priority is to "out-man" me in traditional male fields of social competence or achievement.
10 weeks ago
10 weeks ago Link To Comment
Agreed, Kikkoman, especially the feminism brainwash aspect. It also doesn't help that education has been taken over by nuts who claim that Christians and males put down women to such an extent that they were illiterate/uneducated until the 1960s.
10 weeks ago
10 weeks ago Link To Comment
A couple I've heard from "women's studies" majors:

- Women were held as the chattel of men until, like, the 1970s.

- I've been oppressed for thousands of years (from a woman who was likely age 20).

I'm glad their massive student loans (that either daddy, hubby or the taxpayers will ultimately pay) will have paid for something useful.
10 weeks ago
10 weeks ago Link To Comment
What's worse regarding my experience is that the statements I referenced weren't even in classes associated with Women's Studies, but stuff like World History up to the 1500s, American Literature, Chaucer, Foundations of American Education, and the like.
10 weeks ago
10 weeks ago Link To Comment
" In essence they want acknowledgement that they are as smart or smarter than you, and constantly try to prove this in a combative way. "

Let me fix that for you:

" In essence they want constant acknowledgement that they are much smarter than you, and constantly try to prove this in a combative way. "


There, that's better.

10 weeks ago
10 weeks ago Link To Comment
There's also the demand that you surrender autonomy and agency to someone who would find it offensive to even think that she should do the same, because she's got a degree or some such.

Then, somehow, she doesn't respect you as a man, anymore. Go figure.
10 weeks ago
10 weeks ago Link To Comment
Well said. I've seen this in many women.
10 weeks ago
10 weeks ago Link To Comment
I absolutely agree.

I just don't have anything to do with women like that anymore, and I am happy. The problem is that most American women are like that today.
10 weeks ago
10 weeks ago Link To Comment
Some men want a stupid woman. After 40, stupid women are also usually about as un-hot as it gets. But the man is on the hook then to pay for them.

I have never understood that attitude - maybe some of these guys can weigh in. I certainly see them in society.

Apparently, the only motivation is to be a man and fulfill your manly duties of eternally paying for some sit-at-home. Sorry, my life is worth more than buckling under to "society" telling me to be a slave to a stupid, bossy fat pig. They don't start out that way, but that's what that class of women becomes after 20 years of marriage.

I guess ... stupid men want stupid women. The stupid women get quite a deal; their whole life is paid for. I'm not sure what the stupid men get.
10 weeks ago
10 weeks ago Link To Comment
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