Yeah, Shaming Single Men will Really Work
I stumbled upon an article called “The Stigma Of The Never-Married Man: He used to be envied. Now the perpetual bachelor is a social pariah:”
“These guys get labeled playboy, loser, commitment-phobe,” says Carl Weisman, author of So Why Have You Never Been Married?: 10 Insights Into Why He Hasn’t Wed. According to U.S. Census Bureau statistics, in 1980 only 6 percent of men between 40 and 44 had never been married; in 2008 it was 16 percent. But even though there are more of them around, men with long-term single status still have a hard time explaining their situation to potential dates, who see a guy entering middle age without ever having been married as damaged goods. In fact, a man whose marriage failed spectacularly tends to arouse less suspicion than a straight, still-single 41-year-old. “If he’s over 40, you would hope that he’s divorced,” says Janis Spindel, a high-end matchmaker in New York who gets calls from hundreds of single women asking for setups. Evidence that even unmarried men in their mid-thirties are suspect is in her fee structure: The up-front charge for guys under 35 is $25,000; for those 35-plus it’s $50,000.
If you ask a guy in his late thirties or early forties why he isn’t married, he’ll have his answer—you could call it his defense—ready.
The article goes on to further discuss the drawbacks of men who are single:
If the fortysomething unmarried isn’t written off as being overly fussy or just plain weird, there is another label that he can find himself tagged with: gay. Travis, who is often teasingly called a diva by those close to him, recounts how five or six years ago a female friend said, “I really want to talk to you. Are you gay?” He laughs. “I was like, ‘No,’ and she’s probably apologized for it 10 times since.” Being an unmarried straight guy isn’t exactly a career enhancer, either. Travis left a job where his lifestyle didn’t fit the company culture. “I used to work for a commercial bank that was very conservative,” he says. “They expect the country club, and taking customers and their wives out. That would be very awkward, because I certainly wouldn’t be doing that.”
So now that so many men don’t get married, the society will spend it’s time trying to shame them and discriminate to keep those guys in line. I imagine this will backfire. I was talking to a shoe salesman in his thirties the other day where I am visiting in Santa Monica and he asked me about my work and I told him about my forthcoming book. Without any prompting, he said, “I don’t want to get married.” When I asked “Why?” he said, “The risk is too great and there is no benefit. Even if you get a pre-nup, it doesn’t work. There is no incentive to me.” Apparently, he is smart to stay single according to one of the commenters at the article I mentioned who had this to say about marriage:
Was single, had ample money and plenty of very open minded young ladies to spend my time with. Was having the time of my life, met a wonderful woman then got married and we had a couple of kids. Now I’m in a perpetual state of worry financially, rarely see my nearest/dearests for fun, and get a bj on Christmas and my birthday. Stay single boys, keep living the dream!!!!!!!
So just maybe there are rational reasons other than weirdness and “fussiness” that keep men from tying the knot. But then, that would mean a columnist like the one writing the piece mentioned would have to understand more about where men are coming from and less about how she and society want men to fall in line with what women and society expect.
Update: Vox Day has more on shaming and the single man.
If man decides not to get marry it would be wise he do what Jesus do and have many sisters. On the other hand ,the 2nd time he returns looking for wife he may decide to go to Bangladish to find good wife who adores him in 1001 but what if he does not want to bring and bring Bangladish conditions to him to make good wife? Yikes!
Jeremiah 3
4 “Return, faithless people,” declares the Lord, “for I am your husband.’
This inspirie me to read more about his great love for us how he loves us more than we can ever love ourselves and not go wacko with this daughter of Frankenstein coming up the coast
This article is written for me. I’m 43, never married, no kids. However, I was engaged once. Nonetheless, I have never been able to understand this mentality that it is better to have been married and divorced than to have never married. Are women more concerned with status and style than they are with character and substance? Because it sure sounds like it. I’m not looking to marry someone so that women can then regard me as ‘not weird’. Good Lord, if that is what drives women to marry, count me out.
If morality and the idea of continuance is dead then a society is lost.
If this article is meant seriously, then it is time to move to another place that values family and children.
See how religious young people of all but the most liberal denominations are the foundation of the America, the ones who serve in the military, teh ones that start families and communities, the ones that do charitable work.
You are looking at the selfish hedonists – is that really what you want to encourage?
I got married and had kids, worst idea ever. I have far less time to contribute to the community because I have to do everything at home. It’s no longer enough to simply earn the income for the household but then at the end of the day I am still expected to do my fair share of housework and looking after the children as the wife is exhaused from caring for the children during the day. It doesn’t end there because all the male related jobs such as car maintenance and yard maintenance still have to be done and you would think after all that you’d be set up for more than I’m too tired or I don’t want to when it comes to the bedroom.
When I was single I only had to look out for myself which left way more time to help build community. I used to help organize community events, I used to coach a soccer team, I used to have way more time and money for myself and I used to get way more action in the bedroom.
Marriage has however provided the benefit of…..oh nothing now that I think of it.
Marriage is a trap for women to act as vampire squids sucking every last bit of time and money possible out of you and thanks to a horrific judicial system if you ever want to get out of the trap it is made so that it’s practically worse to leave than it is to stay.
I’ve never married (50+), but I have never really gotten any guff from anyone.
In my 30s, there were occasionally people (almost invariably women, with a big subset of housewives) who asked when I was going to get married. Now, no one asks, occasionally men say things (out of the earshot of their wives) like: “Sometimes I wonder why I got married.”
What’s funny is that I have had the same girlfriend now – living with her off and on – for well over a decade. That is longer than anyone in my extended family has stayed married. A brother and a cousin are struggling despite good jobs because of the money they are forking over to women because of past marriages.
The older I get the more set in my ways I become. That makes it even harder to want to disrupt my habits and get married.
I know the guys are going to eventually show up who brag about being married for a long time. They seem to think they are provoking envy in the way they approach it. I would say, though, that:
1. I have occasionally seen the wives of these guys later on (for instance going home to eat with a guy from work for the first time). It’s almost embarrassing. Fat, dopey, bossy, not living in the real world because the man shields her from everything. That’s the collective impression.
2. I have read stories of a few slaves after the Civil War who really wanted to go back to being slaves. Mr. Johnson never whupped me unless I deserved it, and Mizz Johnson would always throw the old bread out the back door for us. It’s hard now trying to find work so I can eat.
There are truly men who have to be in a harness and have some woman run their lives. They just are not able to function independently. Some of the bossy (non-working, of course) wives are so aggressive about it I can’t even stand being in the same room with them for 10 minutes, let alone be married to them.
If that’s your kick and you want to have a completely unfair relationship in which you pull the cart and she rides in it, occasionally whipping and spurring you to move faster, then that’s your business, but I don’t think I would brag about it.
@Zorro, post 6: You, ah, do realize that not all marriages work like that, right?
I know six guys from high school and two from college who were married. Now they’re not. I’ve never married (52 years old). You know what the difference between me and them is?
They had child support (5 of them) and all struggled through alimony. Some still do.
I never have. Who’s the sucker in this room?
Whenever someone suspends all social tact and asks me why I have never married (which is rare), I reply, “Because I have no desire to spend the rest of my life as some woman’s poodle.” The conversation pretty much dies right there.
Whenever someone suspends all social tact and asks me why I have never married (which is rare), I reply, “Because I have no desire to spend the rest of my life as some woman’s poodle.” The conversation pretty much dies right there.
I hope you haven’t trademarked that line so that I can steal it!
It’s yours, dude. Run with it.
I love it. Some woman’s poodle. Gonna use that one.
Damn Straight. Google Briffault’s law, absorb it, live it.
People here are missing the point. There is a very good reason for men not to get married. The Law.
The marriage contract is exploitative of men and the court system is discriminatory against men. That’s reason enough.
I understood this when I was 15, and that was some 40 years ago. All of my life, since I was in the 6th grade, I’ve had girls tell me, “I don’t need you to take care of me.” Okay, fine, take care of yourself.
There is no way I am ever going to agree to presumptive paternity, abortion on demand, and no fault divorce. That’s a license for betrayal and bankruptcy.
Under the terms and conditions of the marriage contract, a woman is perfectly free to marry a man, abort his child, get knocked up by some boy in a bar, stick her husband for the child payment, divorce him, take half of his money, plus the house and the child support, have her boyfriend move in so they can raise their love child together. She has broken no law.
No way am I ever going to agree to a contract like that. We’re not talking about love here. We’re talking about money.
Is she going to be my life partner? No. Is she going to be my helpmate? No. Is she going to be the mother to raise my children? No.
Well, then I’m done. She offered me sex. I had sex with her. End of story.
This is a female problem. It’s an attitude problem above all else, but it’s also a legal problem. If women were serious about getting married, they would advocate for and elect representatives to change the law. Change presumptive paternity to determinitive paternity–the biological parents are required to pay child support, after a paternity test. Change no fault divorce to just cause divorce.
This is also a male problem. All of these guys running around blind, getting married, and ending up bankrupt. Paying for children that aren’t even theirs.
If men and women were serious about this topic, they would argue for changing the law.
Because until that happens, a marriage license is nothing more than a license for betrayal, abandonment and bankruptcy.
All you guys, yeah, I know you love your wives. Maybe you got lucky and married a real woman. You still exposed yourself to betrayal, abondoment and bankruptcy.
How sure are that the child you’re paying for is yours? Because I knew the bride when she used to rock and roll.
It’s a joke. It’s a sick joke. There is a difference between the sacrament and the contract. The former is pure and true; the latter is corrupt and false.
Go ahead, play this stupid game. Do you want me to go down the list, of friends of mine, guy that I grew up with, guys that I went to school with, who played this stupid game? It’s in the dozens, and they all lost. Big Time.
The modern American girl, she wants to change the rules, but play the same game. Uh, sorry, when you change the rules, you’re not playing the same game. And since the real rules, the law, haven’t changed, what game is there left to play?
She offered me sex. I had sex with her. End of story. I didn’t care if she had a boyfriend or a husband. She offered me sex; I had sex with with her.
Until the modern American girl can wrap her mind around this problem, that she’s noting more than a one night stand. As long as her husband is online for the child support, what’s the problem?
The problem is that her husband in online for the child support.
No way am I going to agree to that. I accept my responsibilites without question. I will raise and support every child that I conceive. But another man’s bastard? Forget about it.
Marriage is out of the question. The problem is with the law. It’s past time that men and women started to agreeing to that simple fact.
“She offered me sex.”
When a Man is reduced to that statement alone, then He is “done”.
(This is in no way a comment towards you, Gawain, but Men in general)
All of you Men can beg for your scraps like little pathetic dogs. As for Me, I’m not some hound in the pound, sniffing asses, drooling and barking for the attention of women, or especially for their miserable brand of sex.
If I think I have to beg, ask, or trick a woman into having sex (or wait for her to toss Me a treat and scratch Me behind the ears for being a “good boy”)… then I’ve willfully given her all the power and control to make My life absolutely miserable.
Sorry dudes… but you hounds can go ahead and play that game. It’s astoundingly to watch “men” lower themselves to such a pathetic degree… and for what? Blowing your nut? Jesus… no wonder women run your lives.
I have never forced myself on any woman. I have never begged for sex. I am not a pick up artist. I’m a man.
It’s all about body language. Don’t listen to anything she says, just watch what she does.
When you meet a woman, if she likes you she will smile and show you the palms of her hands. It may be a wave or a brush of her hair, but she will show you the palms of her hands. It’s a learned behavior among Western women. She smiles to indicate she’s not threatening. She shows you the palms of her hands to indicate she’s not carrying a weapon. She’s approachable. If she does not smile and show you the palms of her hands, do not go anywhere near her. She will destroy you, man.
Once you’ve approached her, if she touches your arm, she’s interested. If she touches your leg, she’s interested tonight.
It’s very simple really. Just be well dressed, well scented and well groomed. Be funny, give her something to laugh about–self-depracating humor works best. If she touches your leg, take her to a hotel. That’s what she wants.
It’s not about sex, although I love sex. It’s about what she wants, sex.
She offered me sex. I had sex with her. End of story.
The problem here is the attitude of women. For some reason, they think that offering a man sex means that they’re going to get married. That they’re entitled to 50%. It’s really stupid, when you think about it.
My thing is that I know the law. I understand the terms and conditions of the marriage contract. I do not agree to presumptive paternity, no fault divorce, and abortion on demand.
Is she going to be my life partner? No. Is she going to be my helpmate? No. Is she going to be the mother to raise my children? No.
Well, then I’m done. She offered me sex. That’s all she has to offer me. I had sex with her. I’m done. In the morning, I’m gone. It’s not like I can’t replace her.
This is what modern American or Western women do not understand. She has nothing to offer a man other than sex. She isn’t worth 50%. She isn’t deserving of presumptive paternity. And as far as no fault divorce and abortion on demand, forget about it.
And now she doesn’t like it. I really don’t care. Who is she to me? She’s just some girl I had sex with. She does not have any access to my money, my property, and there is no way that I’m going to agree to a fully binding legal contract whereby I am responsible for paying child support for every child she conceives. She offered me sex. If she’ll have sex with me, she’ll have sex with anybody. That’s reason enough not to marry her.
The problem here is with the law. Change the law. I’m the only one who keeps saying this. Change the law. Because until you, men and women, change the law, marriage is out of the question. It’s a lose-lose contract for men.
The contract is exploitative of men, and the courts are discriminatory against men. If you can’t wrap your mind around that, then you’re stupid or love drunk or pussy whipped.
I’m a man. A woman offered me sex. I had sex with her. I’m done. Marriage is out of the question.
Gawain’s Ghost is absolutely right about all of it. Change the damn laws, abolish the so-called “Family Court” or STFU!
… and My apologies for not addressing your overall point and allowing My pissy attitude to focus in on something generally irrelevant within your entire message.
At least I have a good “excuse”, as if I needed one. My health. But truth be told, even as is, I’ve dated and lived with more women than I can count on fingers and toes combined, thrice over as lovers. The few that were worth their salt either couldn’t have children (or couldn’t marry, as… well… you figure it out). Yeah, sure, I’ve had some chances. But moving around in the Navy, and some other things, just…
I am glad I did not marry back when though. I am still looking to do so, if prospects don’t look all that good. I wasn’t ready then. I didn’t understand. What others think of it matters no more to me now than it did then, though. What some snooty broad thinks of my life is none of my concern any more than what I think of her idiot notions is her concern. Heh!
I’m over 50 and will likely never marry. I just don’t want to. I have had 2 women “strongly bring up” the topic to me. I guess that’s an older woman’s version of a proposal.
I’m not gay, and I had a strong sex drive in my 20s and 30s. I also earn fairly well as a patent attorney, and I’m not ugly. I simply got the drift. Once you get married, you are really in service to the woman. There is no other way to describe it, and I see two categories in my age range: (1) Men who stay married who are really the servants of the “boss” and (2) men who are divorced who are paying and paying and paying …
Thank God I’m not paying over money to some woman for no apparent reason. I have enough of a problem paying money to the IRS.
Gawain’s Ghost nailed it again.
If you took a marriage contract to your attorney and had them look it over, they’d laugh at you. They’d tell you what they’ve seen in their years of court room experience. They’d advise you that you’re assets hung in the balance, your kids would hang in the balance and you could end up hanging from the balance sheet.
No attorney would pass off that contract as viable without muffling a laugh.
If for no other reason than an appeal to reason, we need to tell the men getting married that they are being the irresponsible ones, not the responsible ones.
It’s not responsible to risk everything without insurance or a hedge or the possibility of appeal.
No responsible man would do that.
So per-selection is worth $25,000?
Given the sex ratio after 40, these agencies should be paying the men to register with them.
What a screwed up society, being gay is now more socially respectible than being a single man.
I am one of those who is 60 and never married. Here are the ugly truths:
1) American women want pussy whipped peasants who have no moral backbone. If you are a man reading this, then remember to tell wifey this when she ordershttp://tinyurl.com/92mlyly you to do some household chore:
“I’z sorry master. I am the yard slave and not the house slave.”
2) Imagine a lady and you have imagined everything American women are not. Note for Dr. Hellen, read this and weep: “Open Letter To The Parents Of American Daughters”
http://tinyurl.com/92mlyly
3) Most of the women I have dated are divorced. Their lives are in complete disarray. Their children are a mess. As a man, I am stripped of any authority to step in and punish these kids so that they don’t use drugs or shack up with shit heads.
4) Divorced people lie to themselves and then they lie to their prospective partners. The reason for the divorce os it’s always the other guy. That is a lie.
5) Despite asservations to the contrary, American women love the genitals of donkeys and horses. They crave the cum of dogs. Note to women readers: Your pussy whipped future husband is out there somewhere. Driving around in his pickup truck looking for you so you can complete his life. That is what you want: some needy sniveling American man.
I’d rather not be “settled for” by leftover women who all always seek to make men like myself pay for not matching up with the high-status attractive men they used to freely sleep around with, that and the fact that there is really no benefit for men to marry let alone cohabit with women.
Now an increasing number of men on some level are realizing that the game of life is rigged against them, while those who remain single have simply decided to go their own way and not play.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2214506/Meet-SITCOMS-Single-Twenties-Clinging-Onto-Memories-career-women-moving-relationship-hunting-The-One.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2223221/Women-wimpy-partners-picky-critical-certain-times-month-lust-men.html?ITO=1490
The truth is that some women are true help-meets, not just “help eats.”
True, Susan.
Change the laws and make marriage not the lose-all risk it is for men and more men will go looking for a ‘help meet’. Until the laws change, men are playing with fire participating in the ‘Woman wins all’ marriage/divorce game.
I’m a long time married guy and now a widower. I found a woman who was very religious and held to her vows, even when she wasn’t happy or things weren’t going that well. We raised our children together and went through life together until cancer struck her down.
Marry again? No. It was good for us, good for our children, but I simply don’t believe that I can find a woman of that high quality again.
tweell,
I’m very sorry for your loss, it sounds like you found a gem. Unfortunately, given the overabundance of ‘Sex and the City’ wannabes, the odds of most men finding a good woman like the one you married are very low.
No man has ever given me crap for getting married. It’s always been the women at work, each one of them married.
Strikes me as a bit of projection on their part. Marriage pretty much validates their social worth. The deeds of a man and his competence validate his social worth.
I’m not opposed to marriage, I just want to make damn certain the person I’m spending the rest of my life with is quality. Those women are few and far between.
Additionally, fluff articles like this, while serving as a good point of discussion and a possible indicator of a trend, only focus on the GQ-looking, high status sorts like the guy who does standup comedy, the guy who shows up with a 25 year old hottie, or the guy with a top-level career. They almost never focus on the 40 year old, balding, semi-paunchy, quiet, accountant sort that probably would like a mate but doesn’t have the social skills to attract one. A guy like that in 1980 might not be single at 40 because a decent woman who was the same 5 of attractiveness he was would settle down with him at age 25. In 2012, that same 5′s hypergamy has slutted her way into her 30′s and is now a 3, wondering where all the good men are while her biological clock’s sounding the 2 minute warning.
Can’t discuss that though. Anything that puts at least the minimum of responsibility of the social phenomenon on women is verboten in today’s media.
Excellent point. There are a lot of professional men who women reject – not attractive enough, don’t live right next door, etc.
And distance is a bigger factor than people realize. There are places in this country where outstanding men are plentiful (the area around NAS Patuxent River, MD, comes to mind) – but eligible women are in short supply.
Here’s something to chew on for you long-time married men who live in wedded bliss:
I had a long-term girlfriend in college and a few years after, probably 8 years in total, and we were engaged to get married at one point. I decided to diddle around in graduate school, and I stayed fairly poor at that age. She was very good looking and very oriented towards money – from a man, not from her social work degree – so we broke up.
A couple of years later, she just appeared in my life again. I started having sex with her again, and then she revealed that she had met some other guy, but he was an idiot, lousy at sex, and an old, horny man. Oh, and a Jew-Boy.
Then she kind of noted, as an afterthought, that she was engaged to him and living with him part time. I broke off the reincarnation of our relationship when I heard that.
Years later, I was at a huge meeting of my bar association – I just went there because I get CLE credit, not because these ding-dongs ever have anything interesting to say. Who was one of the speakers as a higher-up in the bar association? Naturally the (now) husband of my ex-girlfriend. He gave his speech and then added something about his bedrock, his wife (who wasn’t there). I remembered her infidelity and her comments about him. She was only with him for the money (I hadn’t seen in her when I was originally with her – because I was naive), and this dope thought it was true love.
Something to chew on.
Getting a woman to tell the truth is like pushing rope uphill. Good luck.
The average American man has about ZERO clue what his wife really thinks about him or wants or does.
Marriage is a bad joke.
Interesting post till I got to the anti-semiticism. Stopped reading then.
Trey
It’s not anti-semitism on my part. She told me he was a “Jew-Boy” and she also mockingly sang some Jewish song.
To repeat: It’s not anti-semitism on my part. I didn’t like it any more than I liked the fact that she was sleeping with her fiance/husband behind his back, that she was just out for the money (I honestly never saw that aspect in her until the end of our first relationship), and that she would marry someone she clearly didn’t even like for money.
I don’t know how you came up with the interpretation that I am anti-semitic (“I stopped reading there”), but I guess it’s true that people will find any and every meaning you didn’t intend in something you write.
VVR, I don’t think he got that you were quoting your ex there. I had to read that part twice myself, to be sure.
Upon initial read, I thought it didn’t sound like she was being quoted either. It’s not a big deal, but simply rewriting it to something like “‘And he’s a Jew-Boy, too’ she said” would’ve eliminated the confusion.
I wouldn’t worry about it. TMink seems to jump first and understand later. Then he lectures you in a condescending way. Not a terribly bright approach. Or person.
Whiskey, what a devastating put down, I hope I can avoid a deep depression in response. Given the level of coherence, kindness, and the sage like quality that your posts have, I feel compelled to take your feedback with a commensurate level of respect and importance that it is due. You have earned that.
I promise to do so. 8)
Trey
Ouch WTF, what a devastating criticism. I am stupid, impulsive, condescending, insignificant, man, that is a list! I tend to give criticism as much weight as I have respect for the person giving it. As I think back to your comments, advice, and the general level of coherence in your posts, I promise to give your critique all the consideration it deserves.
Honest.
Trey
Well, my bad. I missed that you were quoting her. To be fair, it was not at all obvious that she was the bigot, but sorry for my confusion. In tat context, great post!
Trey
For my part, I just gave VVR the benefit of the doubt – as far as I know he has no priors, so to speak.
And careful reading shows that he’s only repeating what the female said. There’s no reason to suppose that VVR was himself calling the “some other guy” she was telling him about “an idiot, lousy at sex, and an old, horny man. Oh, and a Jew-Boy”. From context, it’s clear he’s describing what she said. This is confirmed a couple of paragraphs later in VVR’s post.
For you guys who say that a reason to get married is to have sex: HOLY CRAP are you moronic. It’s kind of the exact opposite. Google something about this. Women lose their sex drive over time in a marriage. My idea is that she’s already got stupid to pay for her, but insert whatever explanation you want. The truth is that women in a marriage lose interest in sex over time, and men remain constant.
My favorite cartoon is a man and woman standing at the altar getting married.
The thought balloon over the man’s head is ‘gee, this is great, now I can have sex whenever I want’.
The thought balloon over the woman’s head is ‘gee, this is great, now I never have to have sex again’.
“The truth is that women in a marriage lose interest in sex over time…”
Sometimes (possibly most of the time?) it doesn’t take very long at all. Remember the old joke:
Q: What food completely kills a woman’s sex drive?
A: Wedding cake
This is a pretty good website and an okay article. I like Steve Canyon’s and VVRs comments – good stuff. I’m divorced and have kids. Love the kids, but hardly get to see them thanks to crazy ex. Should never have gotten married I saw the red flags, fell for all the romantic-movie bullshit, and now suffer for it. I am thankful I got out when I did though, and have also got out of a couple of bad relationships since – train-wrecks-waiting-to-happen stuff.
Stay single forever. Who cares if others think you’re gay, difficult, weird, stuck-up, or whatever else. Men need to learn to be emotionally single and independent. Get laid, but make sure she’s spayed.
Anthropologists! Anthropologists! When the scientists arrive and begin to ask questions, suddenly the TVs go into hiding and the explanations become defensive and even false-faced. Gary Larsen’s cartoon pegged it decades ago, or maybe it’s a behavior distortion like those regularly observed by pollsters. Obviously, a lot of men are in pain, or are frustrated, lonely, or disgusted by the state of things, which are a product of the sexual revolution and legal developments. It’s true that if you want less of something, you tax it, and this applies to marriage as well. State involvment has increased at the same time as personal morality has been derided and questioned almost into oblivion.
I’m in much the same position as some of the previous commenters: sixty, never married, no children, engaged once (to a woman who revealed herself before marriage as a gold-digging shrew). One of the benefits of moving back to Silicon Valley (I had attended graduate school there) in the mid-1970s was that it was acceptable to be a bachelor there; it wasn’t acceptable in Chicago and surroundings.
Today, though, I’m not experiencing any social ostracism for being a life-long bachelor, even in small-town Iowa, where I live.
Oh, pul-eeze.
If this ever becomes a problem for a guy trying to get laid, he simply says he had a long term relationship with a commited career girl. That or he lies about it a claims to have been married briefly in his youth.
Women just want to know that he can be fooled, had.
You got THAT right, Ecclesiastes! Women just want to know that a guy is foolish enough to talk down “The Aisle of Doom”…
This! That’s what she was really saying with this part, “If he’s over 40, you would hope that he’s divorced.” They want catchable.
I’ve been married for almost 25 years. Getting married was the single biggest mistake I have ever made. As I have kids who are not yet out of the house, I’m stuck for now. The lesson that I have learned is the following. As much as loneliness is bad when one is single, it is infinitely worse when one is married. Trust me on that one. Of course, there are the other typical issues, namely obesity, bossiness, bitchiness and the lack of frequent regular loving sex.
In short, unless you’re the type of guy who can read minds, accurately foresee the future and look into a woman’s heart and accurately see what is there, forget marriage.
WTFAW – I’m sorry to inform you but I have to sue you for plagiarism…me and about 100 million other married men….
Doc Helen,
Courage or lack thereof has nothing to do with men bailing on marriage. Lack of commitment doesn’t either. So, why are men bailing on marriage in ever increasing numbers? It’s simple, really: we’ve done a cost/benefit analysis of marriage, and found that the odds are not in our favor; it’s too much risk for little or no reward, so we say ‘Uh, no thanks!’. It’s really as simple as that…
MarkyMark
‘Fear of commitment’ is one of the stupidest things we men are accused of. If we hate commitment so much, why is that the overwhelming majority of divorces are instigated by the woman?
Men don’t fear commitment. More accurately, we don’t fear committing ourselves. What we do fear, with good reason, is that SHE will not take HER commitment seriously.
Fear of having your property stolen and kids alienated from you =/= fear of commitment. Well said.
Trey
The overwhelming majority of women simply cannot comprehend the concept of “Commitment”. It is a paradigm that exists in direct contravention of their hypergamous nature. Study Briffault’s Law and its corollaries, and these irrefutable facts will become readily apparent.
I know 20+ men never married and no kids in real life. All over 30 and under 50.
This, along with the previous posting on reproductive rights, I can see the arguments both ways. If you find the right women, marriage (and even having kids) can be an intensely rewarding experience. On the other hand, it is FAR, FAR better to remain single (and childless) than to enter into a sub-optimal marriage. A sub-optimal marriage can be a living hell for both partners.
I think of marriage and having a family as a 20+ year commitment. A typical job or start-up opportunity is a 5 year commitment. Yet more people do their due diligence for the latter but not the former. It seems certain elements or factions of society actually work to discourage people from doing due diligence and cost/benefit analysis with regards to a 20+ year commitment of their life. This is ABSOLUTELY FRIGGIN INSANE!
Equally insane is the notion that people must make personal life decisions under the influence of external agencies rather than on the internal driven rational self-interest. I have never, ever allowed any external agency to have influence, what so ever, over my personal life decision making.
“He used to be envied.”
He used to be gay. “Confirmed bachelor” used to be a euphemism for gay.
I mean nothing side or nasty about gay men. They had a legitimate reason for never marrying and now straight men have lots of good reasons for not marrying too.
It’s better to be single and lonely sometimes, than to be married, miserable, and wishing you were single again.
I’ve been saying for 30 years:
Old people wish they were young.
Young people wish they were old.
Single people with they were married.
And married people wish they were dead.
I have read any number of surveys over the years that claim gay guys are better educated and have higher incomes than straights. This is usually ascribed to some unknown gay awesomeness.
I have a different hypothesis. Gay guys are not burdened with women to support so they prosper. In college they can attend to getting good grades, and don’t get diverted from grad school to support a wife and children. In their careers, they are not distracted by or burdened with the demands of a woman and kids, nor do they have to put them first in the decisions they make. A young man can live cheaply to pursue a riskier course with a higher pay off down the road. If a man is married, he needs a job right now that is stable and provides income. Those jobs offer less upside. And of course, no gay guys lose their ass in a divorce. (Which makes me wonder why on earth they want to get married. The lack of gay marriage seems more like a feature than a bug.)
Lets not forget that both Straight and Gay men can make use of surrogacy if they desire to sire children without the risk of losing their kids in a divorce.
IMHO at some point in the future what Straight and Gay single fathers should focus on is getting the same amount of pay / benefits as a married couple (in light of how hardworking men are compared to single mums that cost companies lots of money), especially in light of the fact that surrogacy among men (both Straight and Gay) is on the increase.
That personally is a much worthwhile cause for men to rally behind than legalising Gay Marriage and letting lawyers/courts do to them like they have already done to countless straight men (whether married or cohabiting) for the past few decades (maybe even a century?).
It’s kind of dawning on me that to be happy in a marriage over decades, as a man, you have to kind of believe that you are dirt and she is a goddess up on a pedestal.
Then everything can be justified. You work your butt off, and she nags and bitches and doesn’t pull her weight, because she is a goddess and you are dirt. You deserve it. Even if she leaves you, you deserve to give her lots of money and keep supporting her with alimony. Because you deserve it as a piece of dirt. So everyone is happy.
Men who think that women are just human beings – and who think that men are not inferior to women – wouldn’t last long in that environment described above.
C’mon Areo! If that were true then 99% of the husbands I talk to wouldn’t be organizing “Up With Marriage” celebrations to recruit younger men into joining their marital bliss club…oh wait, they aren’t doing that.
Overly fussy, just plain weird, gay…
There’s another category – men whose sexual market value is so low that no women want them. These guys usually have multiple undesirable characteristics w/r/t the sexual marketplace – short, ugly, fat/scrawny, poor/miserly, reclusive, addicted, tepidness, ugly personalities, and, yes, high standards (fussiness) and garden-variety weirdness (autism, Aspergers, real mental illness).
No one ever writes about these guys. They are maybe the largest group of people that no one in the world cares about.
Good point – you reminded me of several guys who fit this category. And that reminds me of another category – men who women just go for even though they are seriously mentally ill. Some harmlessly, charmingly insane, some sociopaths. It is an amazing world.
It’s kind of dawning on me that to be happy in a marriage over decades, as a man, you have to kind of believe that you are dirt and she is a goddess up on a pedestal
Oh, for cryin’ out loud. That’s nonsense.
In fact, you’ve got it all backwards. A man who acts like you describe is pretty much guaranteed to have a crappy marriage and a wife who ends up despising him.
Look, I get it. Some guys get royally screwed by marriage. They pick the wrong wives (not like it’s really their fault, society does a lousy job teaching young men what to look for, and an even worse job teaching young women what to be), rotten forces work to undermine their marriage, evil courts pile on…
But just because you aren’t having any fun it doesn’t mean I’m not having any fun. It’s not impossible to have a good marriage. It is hard, but there are things you can do to make it worthwhile.
It’s one thing to be angry. It’s another to be bitter and insult everyone around you.
Wow. My wife and I are coming up on 33 years in March. I cannot imagine how miserable I would have been had I stayed single. I feel so sorry for all of you who have had such miserable marriages.
The core of any successful marriage is very simple: selfishness does not work. A man and a woman need to be prepared to be as selfless as they can be, and there is a good chance of a happy marriage. If one of you is selfish, there is going to be real misery for the other partner. If both of you are selfish, it is going to either be a short marriage, or an excruciating experience.
Clayton, your words are not convincing, particularly this: “I cannot imagine how miserable I would have been had I stayed single.”
It sounds like your wife is kind of a surrogate mother to you if you cannot imagine life as a single man. I know a lot of single men and between them and married men, I choose single men hands down as the happiest. Married men aren’t even in contention. They are poodles to their wives, full stop.
Well, I can understand how you end up unable to make a marriage work if the only men you know are “poodles to their wives.” If that’s the only role models you have, there isn’t much chance. I’ve never met a woman who wanted to be married to a poodle.
Well, let’s examine this. A poodle is a man who is essentially broken, and yes, that is most men in today’s culture, and that is, I am afraid, indisputable. It’s not like we don’t know this, we just don’t like to talk about it. Most married men are Willy Loman. I’m not saying they are failures, or losers. They are simply human beings. No value judgment here. There are times when it is better to be single. This is one of those times.
I know a very few poodles. I know a lot of very selfish people who did not stay married. I know a few decent people who married someone who was very broken, and the marriages didn’t last. But I do not know many men who fit this description of poodle.
Uh, no. My wife and I have a pretty equal relationship. We have complementary strengths and weaknesses. She is a bit more outgoing; I am bit more introverted. She looks for ways to help others; I look for ways to accumulate wealth. Depending on who is working the most hours, we take on different parts of household duties. (We had some Korean women staying with us on a cultural exchange — they were shocked to see me cooking dinner, and her on the roof replacing tiles.)
Well, for some reason you seem highly motivated to get everyone to believe you have a great marriage, Clayton E. Cramer.
I don’t know what your strong motivation is.
But since people can’t see anything in your life, you aren’t going to be able to achieve your goal here of making everyone believe that you are an extremely non-selfish person, along with your life, and everything is hunky-spunky.
Why do you want to convince people so much? If your relationship is super, great, then go off and be in that relationship. Frankly, you sound like a very “me” oriented person (wanting desperately for people to think you are some great guy), not a non-selfish person.
But VVR, you make this same post any time someone disagrees with you. His post is on topic, he just has a different perspective. That apparently upsets you. Some of us have happy marriages. You can accept that reality or attack us as manginas, but it does not change our happy lives. I appreciate that you want to stay single, I hope you are happier than I, and I accept your points about family court (I spend more time than I would prefer in family courts.) So fly your single flag proudly, but is it really necessary to engage in put downs of people who disagree with you?
At least make the put downs you hit me with for disagreeing with you fun or clever. OK?
Trey
You don’t know many poodles?
Do you leave the toilet seat up or put it down?
*Fist Bump*
“The core of any successful marriage is very simple: selfishness does not work.”
Congratulations on an exceptional wife. In the real world, for most normal marriages, men who are honorable and dutiful in marriage/relationships are eventually seen as beta male nebbishes. Fools. The dominant man who commands respect, and demands sacrifice from his wife, with ambiguous reciprocity, is almost always in better standing than the selfless man.
Quite true. In today’s legal and social environment, in a relationship between a selfish person and a selfless one, the selfish person wins.
Clayton Cramer seems unaware that single women today actually have casual sex.
He thinks a man not marrying is lonely virginity. In reality, single guys can have a better sex life, since the modern woman will sleep with 52 different men in a single calendar year.
You’re severely underestimating the yearly shag count for the average buttercup.
Clayton E. Cramer, that’s great that you have a happy marriage. However, your assessment that unsuccessful marriages are due to both partners being selfish is erroneous. That may have been the case 50+ years ago. No longer.
You clearly have not been reading the same posts that I have. The law in particular, society in general, not to mention the sexual revolution, hypergamy, lax morality and a complete lack of society and the education system holding women responsible for their decisions (and actually punishing men for women’s decisions) means that marriage is no longer a two-way street. It is heavily slanted in favour of women. Until that is rectified, a happy marriage is not in the cards for the vast majority of men.
It is sad that you cannot see that and insist on shaming men for ‘being selfish’.
Few men are genuinely happy in their marriages. They have bossy (and usually fat) wives, kids that don’t respect them (wives and society have conspired to undermine a man’s role) and a legal system that is ruinous.
I genuinely sympathize with married men in bad marriages and advise men not to marry unless they have seriously done their homework (i.e. the woman in question is a gem and worth the massive risk).
I am actually shaming both men and women for being selfish.
“I am actually shaming both men and women for being selfish.”
—–
Good job. Keep everyone else in line. Show them how they should act; and who should know better than you. According to you.
Ummm … why are you doing that again?
You’re continued hounding of Clayton Cramer’s postings is quite telling. Clayton has done nothing to warrant your approbation, in fact he’s done naught but suggest that the reason marriages fail is that people fail to commit to them equally, which is hardly an outlandish sentiment. This, in turn, leads me to nly conclude that the reason you’re so focused on stalking his posts is that Mr Cramer has come far closer to hitting the target with you than you’re comfortable admitting. Of course I could be wrong, you might just be a prick by nature.
Oh, and as a man who was happily single his entire adult life (well into the 5th decade), let me add that I see little reason for any man to marry unless he encounters a situation exactly like Clayton’s – a woman who’s complimentary, helpful, not selfish but devoted, willing to work with you and willing to accept your foibles if you’ll overlook hers. Of course I’ve not found one of those in decades of looking, but that doesn’t mean they’re not out there – just probably not at the strip clubs I’m attending.
I’ve written a grand total of two responses against different posts of his – according to you, that’s stalking. You also think that something or other is “quite telling”.
You have a male name, “Robert”, but you are employing apparently female / feminist tactics. You sound like a shaming / nagging woman. I realize that for a certain segment of the female populace, the fact that a significant amount of men may start seeing the one-way money transfer that goes on in most male/female interactions, and what a raw deal marriage is, is downright threatening to parasitic women.
“I see little reason for any man to marry unless he encounters a situation exactly like Clayton’s – a woman who’s complimentary, helpful, not selfish but devoted, willing to work with you and willing to accept your foibles if you’ll overlook hers. Of course I’ve not found one of those in decades of looking, but that doesn’t mean they’re not out there”
Uh…. this would be an immensely sad statement, if it weren’t so damn comical.
This is precisely VVR’s point. As a Man, you make a foolish calculation in today’s society by thinking “they’re out there” at all. With the incredible ratio of women indoctrinated to minimize and devalue Men/fathers versus those that do; with the high percentage of women who initiate divorce (read: cash in their winnings) versus Men do do the same; with the fickle, haphazard, emotionally deranged nature of women as compared to most Men — the landscape resoundingly negates your little utopian unicorn world where Men stand a chance to “encounter a situation exactly like Clayton’s”.
In my long and treacherous experience with females, I have NEVER seen a woman who is “complimentary”, “helpful”, “devoted” and especially “not selfish”. Hence, I can rightly and accurately extrapolate that data to the larger world around me. This stereotype didn’t just fall out of my ass when I was taking a crap one day. It was developed through years of exposure to the same female behavioral patterns — over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.
Your belief (and an accurate one, for sure) that there are verifiable instances of certain women in the universe who do not meet the generality, does not negate the generality. It is interesting how people accept stereotypes and generalities… but only if they are complimentary in nature. You’ll never hear of an instance where Person A says, “Women are beautiful”; then Person B says, “No they’re not. You can’t stereotype like that! My aunt is hideous!” Never happens. Engaging people who can’t seem to wrap their heads around the valid concept of generalities is quite a waste of time for the more reasoned lot among us.
The fact that you follow up your sycophantic view of women by admitting that, in your decades of searching, you still haven’t found “one of those” women you so desperately believe are out there, merely proves not only the generality, but it also validates everything that VVR has posted concerning marriage.
It also proves that you don’t even believe your own bullshit.
I got married in my late 30′s to a woman who is a good wife, but there’s no way I’d have children with her or anyone else. I said as much to her well before we got married, and as near as I can tell, she’s still genuinely okay with it (we’re in our mid 40′s now and that window’s likely to close within a year or two).
I regard marriage as a risk akin to joining the military. It’s dangerous, particularly if you go in blind, but it can be rewarding if you’re careful and keep your wits about you. Having kids, though, is a bridge too far for me. With all the frivorce and cash and prizes, it would be like playing Russian Roulette with half the barrel loaded. The risk of marriage is bad enough. Getting kids involved is insane.
Anyway, I don’t see shaming as a useful tool, particularly coming from women. “They” (meaning pop culture feminism) already hate our guts and think we’re dumbass violent perverts that’d just as soon rape them as look at them. What do I care about their shaming? That’d be like worrying that the Jihadists trying to kill us might get upset that we eat pork and try to extra-kill us.
And if a man tried to shame me into marriage, he’d immediately loose my respect as either a naive idiot or as someone who did not have my best interests in mind.
Well we changed the relationship between the sexes in the 20th century and it has had positive and negative consequences. One of them is demographic decline and from reading this thread it is not hard to see several contributing causes. There is i think another more subtle problem with the cultural changes we have put ourselves through. Men have become less male. I remember when it struck me. I grew upon the east coast and moved to Australia in the 70s. I was back in the US doing some graduate work in the Bay Area in the 90s and noticed that I really didn’t like the men in the street. They seemed like they were apologizing for being men (OK I confess it was Berkeley). There was a Black homeless guy (ex military he claimed and he felt credible) who used to offer to clean my windows when I parked and who really did a nice job. I liked him and we got to talking and I said something about the men and their apparent lack of male self awareness. And I forget what he came back with but both of us were doubled over laughing for quite a while.
Um…. huh?
I’m 56 year old man, never married, never even came close. My experience has been that there is less stigma about being a never married man now than there was when I was younger. YMMV.
I have fun with it. When someone says they think I am lucky that I am not married/have no kids, my reply is “It isn’t luck, it is good planning.”
The last couple of years whenever someone complains about their spouse or children, I smile and say “My life is so simple.” It usually gets a laugh, but not always.
I’m single in my late 40s. The reason I’ve never been married is I never really wanted a wife and family. I would have gladly signed up for a legal contract locking in a really good girlfriend, but never found a woman interested in the same deal.
I’m now at least open to marriage and wonder now much I could improve the marriage contract with a prenuptial agreement. Here in Texas the issue isn’t alimony, it’s child support. Not sure if it’s possible for a man to protect his pre-marriage accumulated wealth in a divorce when the court sets child support payment terms. I think it’s somewhat fair to split assets accumulated during marriage and a responsible parent wants to support his children, but women and lawyers feel free to spend money they didn’t work for.
@George B
If you are a high-earner in Texas and NEVER married or co-habitated with the baby momma, you are in luck. In such a case, the law here generally only takes your first $120K of annual income into account when calculating child support obligations.
So if you make $250K, for example, you would be paying no more absolute child support (and a much smaller percentage of your income) than if you made $120K.
I’m 50+ and the only time I hear any grief is from women who are in their late 30′s and early 40′s who are hearing their biological gong. The fact that I only date women in the 18-25 age bracket is the biggest grief – “cradle robber” is NOT uncommon. But then, I say, “I rob it because they come crawling so willingly.”
But the fact is there is nothing but minuses to marriage in the US, and most countries. Now I figure at some point I’ll retire, and go to an Asian country – I’m learning one of the languages now – and shack up with a couple of young women, for the express purpose of having children. I figure why limit myself to one – that is for suckers. I’ve learned my lessons well from the US, and that is to never be a sucker. I’ve seen friends destroyed by marrying a woman, who decides she needs to “find herself” and takes everything he owns. No thank you… I’ll keep my stuff, and shack up with some 3rd world bed warmers and call it good… This country is rocketing down the tubes – it’ll be 3rd world soon enough, so I might as well get ahead of the curve and enjoy life…
I figure I’ll retire in the next 5 years – or sooner depending on how this election goes. If Obama is in, I’m ready to shut things down and head over-seas probably in the next year. Just as I see no reason to get married, I see no reason to be raked over the coal by this buffoon…
“…so willingly…”
Yeah, there are some people who would see you walk out of a bank carrying a brand new toaster and accuse you of robbing it from the bank.
I am soooo glad that more and more men are finally deciding not to put their own well-being last…
It is good to see men avoiding ‘marriage’ (which itself is dead in America as a matter of law) and pragmatically becoming pickup artists instead.
Books and articles such as the one Carl Weisman wrote are designed to cater to female narcissism.
That tells us more about the character of most women, than anything.
A book that bashed women and was ignorant of the facts simply would not sell to men. Yet women have great demand for anything that bashes men.
So Carl Weisman (who apparently is NOT a ‘wise man’) has 10 insights into why he has not wed yet..
I don’t want to read his book, but tell me…
Is even ONE of those reasons the massive legal risks the man faces under entering such an unequal contract? Is he even aware that the man can have his children taken from him, have his income seized from him under threat of incarceration, and society will still say HE is the villain?
If none of his 10 reasons even mention this, then his blindness is pathological. Men should simply live for themselves, and pass the costs of feminism onto women and manginas.
The sad truth is, human society treats men as expendable. Biologically, this made sense in the old days, as a large number of men dying did not reduce the number of babies that could be born. Hence, just about *any* society would send 50 men to die before a single woman faced harm…
Unfortunately, now that battlefield deaths are no longer common, male expendability has instead manifested into turning the marriage contract into a slave document. And since men are expendable, society is OK with this horrendously lopsided arrangement (even if it completely violates the US Constitution).
Male expendability always has been the norm.
Yep. Judeo-Christian scriptures reflect the expendability of men very clearly. Abraham didn’t take a daughter up the mountain to be sacrificed. Mary didn’t die on the cross for all of humankind’s sins.
Who broke the spell of male disposability? I name Gen. Patton. He famously told his troops that they’re not supposed to die for their country, they’re supposed to make the other guy die for his country. I think that’s when the light bulbs started to go off in a lot of men’s heads – hey, more and more of them realized, my life is valuable – not my death. Later on, the flick It’s A Wonderful Life taught the same lesson to more men. And Philip Wylie railed against momism in his book A Generation of Vipers. Ayn Rand wrote a monster best-seller around the message of man is not a sacrificial animal. Against the latter two the Establishment turned vicious in its condemnations. But the good news that a man deserves to live every bit as much as any other human being could not be completely suppressed even as a feminist wave swept across the West. And now feminism as a cultural force is in retreat…
I think you missed something there. Patton wasn’t telling his troops “hey guys, you’re not expendable, so be safe and don’t take chances.” He was telling his troops “Somebody is going to get expended out there, you should try to make sure it’s the other guy and not you.” He was telling them that they were either going to die for their country or kill for it, and his suggestion was they opt for the latter. That’s a very, very different message that what you seem to have heard.
Likewise Ayn Rand wasn’t saying “don’t sacrifice.” She was saying “don’t let someone else steal your accomplishments.” But the notion that men should have accomplishments was kind of a central issue.
What I think you’re misunderstanding about “male expendability” is that it’s not that men are meant to be used up and thrown away like chattle, but rather that men are meant to either excell or die trying. It’s biological, there’s no cultural component to that. Settling for mediocrity is against the grain, is in fact probably the most literally unmanly thing someone can do.
It is more about what JMH said – men suffer the most but also accomplish the most , they risk the most but get to live the most, they are given more but more is expected from them – women tend to have safe lives, but also far less adventurous/significant ones.
Few women make the history books compared to men. Women cluster around the mean but men are far more spread out and make up nearly all of the outliers. Yes it was Jesus and not Mary who died for our sins…but it was Jesus who is the Son of God and has far more authority than anyone but the Father. He did have to suffer far more, but He received far more as well. Just the way it is, really.
We are biologically far more prone to risk taking and aggression (and thus suffering) on one hand, and accomplishment and achievement and attainment on the other.
Other than that I don’t really see any issue of men (in the Bible) as being seen as more expendable…in most of the situations were life is at risk (like war) especially in those days with bronze-age technology men were the only ones who could seriously participate.
As for Isaac’s sacrifice (recall he was not actually sacrificed in the end) this was an extreme exception (as human sacrifice is explicitly forbidden in the Bible and this is one of the big differentiators between the Jews from their Pagan neighbors). I won’t go into it much here but the basic point (as explained in the Book of Hebrews) was that Isaac was a gift from God (recall that Sarah was too old to have normally conceived a child), and Abraham had enough faith that God knew what he was doing, including being able to resurrect the dead if it came to that.
This topic is not complete without pointing out how more and more men are hiring surrogates abroad and becoming single dads. Like this Canadian man, Toban Morrison :
http://photogallery.thestar.com/1038282
This is not for everyone, of course. But at least men should know that the option exists, and other men have done it.
Once women become too risky and contribute too little in return, the workarounds pop up. This is the age of globalization, after all.
Returning to the original topic, PUA types acknowledge that women want to think a guy is commitment-capable and encourage their students to -at least- invent a former “fiancee” for this very reason. I don’t think it’s a big deal. Lying about a past marriage is kind of ridiculous and counterproductive (except in Adam Sandler movies)
I would otherwise just think that the He-Men here who have their wives should be left alone on the premise that as long as they don’t bother me, they can do whatever they want.
But they create entitled, sit-on-their-ass housewives. If they don’t make provisions for the future, these women could become sit-on-their-ass welfare recipients. Then I am also paying as a taxpayer.
But secondly, these women refuse to ever accept responsibility. Whatever damage or losses they incur in life, everything will just get shoved onto the husband. On the other hand, they are going to use the title or position of their husband to try to intimidate other people.
In other words, childish scum. If women want to be career housewives, they should accept the commensurate position of being dumb-shits in society. They don’t. I now know to just ignore pushy housewives and immediately go to the idiot who puts them in this position. Your housewife takes a position in society: It’s instantly coming back on you, dip-shit, because she is not going to take any responsibility.
I would advise you not to go anywhere near Gene Hackman. You probalby couldn’t avoid insulting his wife and then the 82 year old would kick your ass.
Well, independently of whether an 82-year-old can kick my ass or not (surprising that you can judge that over the Internet), I would follow my successful strategy of going to the root now.
I had the experience of a housewife simply not paying for services from my business that she ordered under her name. I called her and she said her husband deals with that and don’t bother her. She ignored a court summons, but her husband got wind of the debt after that. I got a judgment and was able to execute on joint property.
Stupid, irresponsible housewife and a clueless man who just takes all the shit in the world to placate her. That’s not going to be the only surprise he gets in life from her, and such weakness in men is revolting to me.
And while I’m at it (LOL) …
Career housewives (I’m not talking about a woman who stays home from work while her children are young, but then helps out money-wise once again when the kids are away at school) don’t want to be assigned the status of “child” that they really deserve.
They want to get in the middle of things as if they are responsible adults and boss people around. But as sit-at-homes, they don’t take any responsibility. They turn into bossy, increasingly stupid, increasingly fat tyrants.
Why do their husband put up with this? Low self-esteem? No idea. But society should start giving their husbands some lumps for creating these entitled dopes.
What is interesting is the men who have been married long term with housewives.
They tell everyone that the housewife has a much harder job.
And then a certain percentage of these men are going to get divorced. It’s statistical.
Then, all of a sudden, they are whining about giving her a huge check. Sometimes half of all of the assets “he” has.
Why? If her job is harder, why in the world would he be made about only giving her 50% of the accumulated assets? Seriously. He should be doing cartwheels that he only has to fork over 50% of the assets when she has the much harder job.
I don’t buy it (“The View” and “Dr. Phil” get tremendous ratings, and I doubt that is from working men), but I think smirking (before the divorce filing) husbands should get drilled for all they’re worth.
The concept of men who don’t want marriage in their lives is an understatement in this context in a sense that subjectivity plays a role and the fact that they do not value family is just pure rubbish. I’m 20 years old and about to get my honours degree and I have my other goals and dreams but I have never stumbled (and probably will never) upon the idea of getting married as one of my dreams, never. I value my family but I don’t have that much value to create a family.
I live in South Africa and almost all women here believe that love is entitled to marriage, that the only way a men can ‘promise his emotional intentions’ is to marry her.
Well if you look at it in a much broader sense you’ll soon realise that society perpetuates these women and the other politics whatsoever yada! yada!.
I don’t fear intimacy or financial wrecks I could face in the future if I would get married, no! not at all. It is not a unanimous decision due to the former and the latter.
This is how I want to live my life, not being entitled to someone and definitely not being an emotionally destroyed man.
It’s not about bad relationship patterns and anything of this sort okay. I have been able to form meaningful relationships in my life but have never treated it as a gateway to marriage.
To all men who will never marry and are single, MORE POWER TO YOU!, just get laid,period.
Married and divorced. We had no kids. Because I went to extraordinary measures to prevent loss through divorce, she obtained 0% of the assets (except jewelry and other gifts). Despite the measures I took to protect myself, she still tried to get as much as she could on the way out. Throughout our relationship, she frequently told me I was her best friend and that she loved me. During the divorce, she told me she had never cared for me at all and was only interested in the assets. What I learned: Many will say and do anything for money, regardless of the damage it does to the targets of their deception. Many a fool believes they can spot these narcissists and avoid severe damage to their lives (I used to be one). Many believe it can’t happen to them, only to find years or decades later that they’ve been duped. My ex was outwardly sweet, attractive, and very likeable. I’m amazed at how easily she plays the game she plays with others’ lives. Like a locust, she moves from life to life, taking what she can and then devaluing and discarding her victims. She taught me a valuable lesson and I will not make the same mistake again. I used to be what every woman wanted in a man. Tall, handsome, great income, romantic, home owner, well educated, commitment oriented, etc. I’m still that guy, but I no longer have any interest in marriage or long term relationships. In a way, she did me a big favor. The good that came out of the divorce was that I grew up a lot. I learned to put myself first and to never feel that I needed a woman in my life to be whole or happy.
Wow. Where do I begin? I know this is an old discussion thread but I typed in something and this was the fist link that appeared in the Google search results.
I’m shocked at the number of jilted men on here. I’m a single woman, never married, childless (dont want children), and age 38. I’m attractive and I’m a Civil Engineer and I’m sad because I would like to be married. Happily married. I dont need a man but I would sure like to have one.
The reason I’m so surprised by the comments on here…I’ve been played many times and know what bitter is but that has not stopped me from believing that there’s a chance for me to find someone who wants to love me as much as I want to love him. The lies I’ve been told, the cheating ex-boyfriend’s, and one even got physical. I mean, I should be yelling, “F@$% Marriage! F%@& Men!” Instead it’s all of you.
You are all scared of losing money. LOL!!! Well, get a woman who has money! Frankly, if I’m not careful, a man would try to get a divorce with a big alimony payout from me. Again, I’m surprised by all the bitter men on this thread when it obviously should be me.
It sounds like you all just want to get it on with a bunch of women. Well, what are you going to do when you have that old person smell and your azz is sagging with wrinkles? You’re not going to get much bedroom action from those sweet young things then. OR maybe that’s it! You can no longer keep up in the bedroom so your answer is to not get married. Another reason I can’t wait to get married is for all the bedroom adventures. You’re married. Thats the time to be naughty and get taboo.
You’ve got it all backwards guys. I guess you’re getting the wrong women and I know I’ve gotten the wrong men but if the world is left with a bunch of never-gonna-get-married jilted men, I’m doomed. This was a very disappointing discussion thread.