Should Men Open Doors for Women?
I have been pondering this question lately as I have noticed that it is mostly older men that open doors for women anymore. Younger men tend to go in first and let the door hit you as you walk through. Though I am a woman, I tend to hold the door if I get to it first and will hold it for men or women. Reader TFR sent me the following email about his experience with door holding:
I work for a small software company in Austin, Texas. I am 58. We have a young intern, perhaps 25, from Germany. I was introduced to her once two weeks ago, but we have not worked together and so I have not really spoken with her since.
This morning we happened to be on the elevator together as we arrived at work. When arrived at our floor, I pushed the button to hold the elevator doors open as she walked out. She walked to the card reader that unlocks the entrance and swiped her card. I opened the door when I heard it unlock and held it for her as she stepped through. She actually laughed at me. And not in a good way. I had plenty to do and she is the darling of the CEO who is a woman, so I just got some coffee, went to my desk, and started my work. Elsewhere, I would have said something.
The funny thing is that because of incidents similar to this and worse, I’ve sworn off opening doors for unencumbered, able-bodied women that I don’t know. (I open doors for encumbered or infirm people regardless of gender or acquaintance or if it just makes physical sense.) In this case, I opened her door a) because she is a co-worker, and b) because she went to the card reader first and it would have been rude to just stand there.
On one hand, I want to ask all members of the XX crowd to get together and jot a note or two to tell the XY crowd how these things should work. Really, it can’t be that hard…..
I can understand why men no longer want to open doors or help women. I do feel sad, however, that it has come to a situation where society is at this level. In fact, in my forthcoming book on the war against men, I address how our society is breaking down because men no longer want to, or are even afraid to interact with women and girls.
Readers, what are your opinions on door holding?
Also read:
The woman was utterly rude. My sons learned from my husband to open doors for women as a courtesy. My husband opens the door for me.
If political correctness has created a world of such rude, childish women who take offense at a simple courtesy, well, then I can understand why you would prefer not to extend it. Saying, “Thank you,” would have been a response, not the guffaw you got.
BTW, I worked in a high level position and was the first female manager in my company in the early 80′s. I truly know what it was like to confront discrimination.
The problem is that you are in the People’s Republic of Austin. Those people have their heads so far up their progressive backsides they think it’s still 1969. I live an hour north of there, in Temple, Texas and I open the door for everyone, male or female, young or old, as I am a gentleman. Nobody complains, not one. I work every day to maintain and re-establish polite society.
No, the problem is that the woman is german. Even in Austin, the women are still Texan and I’ve never seen this as a problem here.
Agreed. I work in Austin and regularly hold doors open for women and fortunately I’ve never been accused or accosted. Now if I ever were, I’d sure be gun shy…
yeh i am a first year college student and i have always opened doors for women and men since i was little. but, unfortunatly there are a few eccentric people here and when they are around i can’t open doors for anyone.
Yep, I’m as polite (or as rude) to a woman as I would be to any man. I also expect the same level of reason, professionalism, and character from women as I do men.
Andrea Mitchell: You do men?
My office building contains a range of federal and private employers, including a big EEOC office. High potential there for somebody to get offended. Generally speaking, I hold the door open for women & the encumbered, letting them pass; and hold the door for other able bodied men until they can get a hand on it and pass through safely without it hitting them in the face. Most women appreciate it and seem pretty friendly, almost always responding with a “thanks” and a smile; most of the men appreciate it because men are generally courteous to each other. I don’t do this out of a sense of chivalry. I do it because too many people act like un-mannered swine, and I’m tired of it.
Should I get a nasty reaction – haven’t had one since law school – I plan on saying, “Well, I hold the door for other men too, if you’d like me to treat you worse than a man, I can do that.” Yeah, I’ll be happy to stick 14th Amendment Equal Protection, Title VII and Title IX right up their nose. Hasn’t happened yet though.
I had an encounter in the 1980′s where a young feminist got explosively angry with me for opening the door for her. She screamed “Why did you do that? I’m capable of opening my own doors!” My response was more subdued, “Because my mother taught me to be courteous.”
I love it when a man has manners and holds or opens a door for me. Also picks up something I dropped. And I let them no I appreciate it very much, because I do. Please don’t stop, you are rare and so many of us wish other people would follow suite. Teenagers are the very worst and girls especially. They look down as your coming toward them and then let the door go, or just about knock you down and keep going. I thank God every day for men like you.
I no longer hold the door for women I do not know. I have had women publicly and vocally ABSUE me for doing so. They have NO qualms about publicly ranting about how I am “obviously” some “misogynyst” who thinks they “can’t open it themselves”. So I will not do it. Sorry-I do not have to tolerate that, nor will I put myself in that position again. If the door hits ‘em in the face. too bad, so sad.
She probably thought that TFR was trying to hit on her.
Anyway, on the rare occasion when I hold a door open for anybody, I’ll hold it open for men too. I’ve had men (but never women) hold the door open for me. Mostly it happens when somebody else and I reach a door at the same time. The people flow is improved if the person on the hinge side opens the door and the other person goes through first. It’s all about both of you getting through the door in the minimum possible time.
“She probably thought that TFR was trying to hit on her.”
Cue the song “You’re So Vain”.
Some people are so conceited that they think everything is about them.
And those people are called ‘women’.
I raised my sons to open doors for women, and my daughter in law was truly impressed when my son opened the car door for her. Another no-win situation for men, but I will continue to open doors etc for women. I’ve been snarled at a few times for such, but not so much lately
Only if it’s convenient. Otherwise no.
Problem with modern women is you want everything to go your way depending on your moods. It doesn’t work that way.
And yes to your last part. I am deftly afraid of interacting with women. Probably the biggest reason I don’t even date. And I’m 40, not some 15 year old. Women in my book are to be treated as worst case scenarios these days until THEY prove themselves otherwise. Yet in many cases they aren’t even allowed to do that because in this day and age, avoiding them is the best case scenario.
You want men to interact, you better start to change things. Because once you make men into criminals for merely being men in regards to how they relate to women, only criminals will be the one’s women have to choose from.
I’m only 26 but my father made it very clear to me that you always open or hold the door for a women or senior citizen. I’ve never been laughed at, if I was I wouldn’t care.
This reminded me of holding a door for a woman I knew as children when we briefly met again in our early twenties. She was offended and said that she was perfectly capable of opening her own doors.
I still do it, and have developed an evolutionary reason for doing so.
“[P]erfectly capable of opening her own door” perhaps, but apparently not capable of being gracious or polite.
Best response I’ve heard to that “If you’re not capable of mastering common courtesy by (add ten years to your best estimate of her age), I figured you might have some problem with the entire “door” concept.
62 here and I hold doors for women all the time. I usually receive a pleasant “thank you.” I have never been the subject of ridicule.
Regardless, TFR wrote: “I want to ask all members of the XX crowd to get together and jot a note or two to tell the XY crowd how these things should work.”
Excuse me? Precisely WHY should XX have either the obligation or the overarching right to define how these things should work for XY? However brief, this is a dynamic interaction of two people. If one traditionally holds doors open for women then continue doing so; if one doesn’t then don’t. There is nothing wrong with XY taking the responsibility for setting the terms of that interaction and then growing a set and taking the responsibility FOR that action. IMO THIS is the root of the problem.
. . . and if oe receives lip sarcasm or denigration fro doing so, then just respond as pdwalker suggested below (# 14):
“My mistake, I thought I was holding the door for a LADY!”
ho ho ho . . .
awkward truth is that neither men nor women can have it both ways.
Or better yet, “I didn’t hold the door for you because of your gender, it was because of your age.”
TFR’s original email was edited (reasonably).
His original last paragraph was …
“On one hand, I want to ask all members of the XX crowd to get together and jot a note or two to tell the XY crowd how these things should work. Really, it can’t be that hard. On the other hand, it is unreasonable to expect all women to think the same way. ”
Dr. Helen was just saving some space.
I open doors for everyone, man or woman, if it is convenient for me.
But I think it would be much more helpful to have a larger discussion about chivalry here. My contention is that chivalry needs to go away entirely, because most women have become a parasite on the male gender and we have to stop enabling them.
heh…No not all women but for sure a larger and larger percentage of them.
I hold doors for some women. Not often for young/pretty women unless it is a simple case of a traffic jam at the door. Such women seem to take any act of kindness as a flirtation and seemingly take it as amusement at our presumption for those of us not in their interest group. Not really worth the bother.
However, older women, the harried mother, etc. take such kindness appreciatively. Often you see a boost to their spirits. Perhaps, younger they to found amusement but now, older, beauty fading, responsibilities weighing upon them, they’ve learned such is not their right but a gift. A gift to be appreciated as a rare offering.
Interestingly, many girls of my age group reacted as Eduardo recounts way back when but now passing middle age, the don’t take such offense or at least, they don’t verbalize it.
“in my forthcoming book on the war against men, I address how our society is breaking down because men no longer want to, or are even afraid to interact with women and girls.”
Great something else to be harangued over with calls for men to accept their burden regardless of cost.
In 1970 I arrived on the campus of Ohio State, a wet-behind-the-ears 17 year old brain full of mush. Most of my upbringing had been in the South where opening doors and in general showing respect to women was just part of the culture.
I hadn’t been there a week when I held the door at the library for an unattractive young lady, who I did not know was one of the leaders of the fledgling “women’s liberation” movement on campus. She didn’t just laugh. She verbally ripped me a new anus that I have never forgotten.
I still open doors for women, because until they prove me wrong I assume they are all ladies. The libber at Ohio State did not qualify for the latter.
Howdy OSC,
Might you be an ‘old’ Surberban friend?
Best Regards,
Ahoy there, CAPT! The one and only.
Hey! We have a reunion going on here. Has anyone heard from Mt Geoff Brown?
I hold doors pretty much whenever I can. For those guys above, always. mounties and davyboy, never.
Totally depends on where I am. Big cities, no holding. Not worth the cold shoulders. More rural, sure. The women smile and say thanks.
So basically, don’t dick with our version of chivalry city folks, just yours. Not our fault your partners are byatches.
Yet another guy thinking a few billion people should all act exactly the same way, and if they don’t, it’s only because they have a conspiracy to confuse him. Yawn.
If we were to treat everybody as individuals, the first thing we would need to do would be tear down a good portion of anti-discrimination law in the US because very little of that is truly compatible with individual treatment.
I can live with that.
Well since in this context acting “exactly the same way” would mean “showing basic courtesy to others”, then yes that is the general expectation of humans in social environments.
When I was an undergaduate at UT Austin, I was walking down the sidewalk on my way to class. I noticed this young woman behind me out of the corner of my eye. I did not know this woman, had never met her, didn’t know her name or anything about her. When I got to the door, I held it open and politely stepped aside to allow her to pass.
She stomped up in a huff and berated me. “I just want you to know that if I had gotten here first, I would have held the door open for you!” I let go of the door ans she stomped on through, and said, “I jst want you to know that I you had gotten here first and held the door open for me, I would have said, ‘Thank you.’”
A couple of days later, I was walking down the sidewalk on my way to class. There was a young woman walking in front of me. I didn’t know this woman, had never met her, didn’t know her name or anything about her. When she got to the door, she stopped and waited for me to open it for her. I walked up, stopped and looked at her, with this Are You Kidding Me? look. She got really pissed and stomped through the door, slamming it in my face.
That was in 1980. And nothing has changed since. You open a door for her, and she bitches about it. You don’t open a door for her, and she bitches about it. Either way, the man is screwed. No matter what he does, he’s going to get bitched at. Whether he’s polite and courteous or rude and dismissive, he’s going to get bitched at. There’s no way for him to win, not with these girls.
Open a door, get bitched at. Don’t open a door, get bitched at. The modern American girl has a problem. It’s a real problem, it’s an attitude problem, and it’s her problem. The only one who is ever going to do anything about it is her.
Yeah, I still open doors for the elderly and the handicapped. What man wouldn’t? But for the modern American girl, I’ll simply stand aside and wait for her to enter the building. Beats the hell out of being bitched at whether I open the door or not.
This is the way she wanted it. She can open her own doors. She can go to college, she can get a job, she can earn a salary, and she can buy her own house. I did. So, now what? Well, I have my life and I have money, and so does she.
Oh, she wants to have sex, as if that means anything. Okay, fine, I like sex. I’ll spring for dinner, drinks and a hotel. But in the morning, I’m done. It’s not like she isn’t easily replaceable.
Is she going to be my life partner? No. Is she going to be my helpmate? No. Is she going to be the mother to raise our children? No. Is she even going to respect me as a man? No.
Well, then, I’m done. She offered me sex. I had sex with her. End of story. On to the next bar slut.
Used to be that women held each other accountable. A slut, a bitch, was shunned, by other women. The extent to which women are not holding each other accountable is the real source of the problem.
A man holds a door open for you, say “Thank you.” It doesn’t get any more simple than that.
But this simple reality escapes the purview of the Modern American Girl. It always has to be all about her all the time. Well, she’s worthless. She’s worth a tequilla shot and a lie to the face, one quick one night stand and dump. And now she doesn’t like it. I look upon that as not my problem.
I opened the door for her. She bitched about it. I didn’t open the door for her. She bitched about it. Seems to me that no matter what I do she’s going to bitch about it.
Okay, fine. She wants something to bitch about? I’ll give her something to bitch about. She can bitch about that I didn’t call her, that I didn’t take her out, that I didn’t take her to bed, that I didn’t marry her. She can bitch about the fact that she isn’t worth 50%.
She can buy her own house. She can buy a cat. And she can sit at home alone with her cat and complain about men. I really don’t care.
And, no, I won’t be opening any doors for her.
“she stopped and waited for me to open it for her. I walked up, stopped and looked at her, with this Are You Kidding Me? look. She got really pissed and stomped through the door, slamming it in my face.”
She was mad because you missed the signal. She was a college student. I am sure she did not wait at doors all the time. She liked your look. She was offering you a chance to open the door and interact. She was giving you the chance to start the conversation, then ask her out.
I used to miss signals all the time when I was young. The women always got mad when I did. If you are not interested, you still have to play it to the point where you can politely let it drop, to show you are not interested. Kinda crazy, I know, but women need to feel appealing. When you miss the signal, you hit them where they live, in their appeal.
If you had held the door, you would have gotten “the Smile”, the too-big, welcoming smile. You follow it up, or let her down easy. She made you a polite offer, and you “ignored” it, thus slighting her. Yeah, I know, you missed it, but people expect that you know the rules of the road, so you were “rude” and “ignored” the kind offer.
No, I got the signal. I got the signal perfectly. The signal was, cater to me. My response was, are you kidding me?
I’ve been dating women for 40+ years. I’ve worked in education. 90% of teachers are women. I currently work in real estate. 90% of realtors are women. I’ve been dating and working with women all of my life. And the one thing I’ve learned is that she is going to complain, about something, about anything.
Open a door, don’t open a door. Either way she is going to complain.
It’s not like I walk around trying to be some rude bastard. It’s that I don’t put up with bad attitude from anybody. I’m polite, I’m courteous, I’m respectul, I will open a door for anybody, except the modern American girl. She doesn’t like it, I don’t care. She wouldn’t like it if I did.
I can get laid on any night, and it will never cost me more than a tequila shot and a lie to the face. I don’t need to open doors for her. I certainly don’t need to pay her 50%. I definitely don’t need to assume presumptive paternity for her.
She wants respect? Then the first thing on her mind ought to be proving that she’s worth it. But she’s not about to do that. That would be oppression, after all.
This is an attitude problem. It’s a real problem, and it’s her problem. I don’t care. I’m educated, I’m intelligent, I’m successful, and I have money. She wants something to complain about? Let her complain about that.
Proverbs: It is better that a man live alone in the desert than with a quarrelsome, complaining wife.
Who does that go to? It doesn’t go to me. It goes to her.
I’d rather have the money and the self-respect. She can live out her own miserable life without me. I really don’t care. She’s going to complain about it either way, so let her complain. That’s what she’s going to do anyway.
This is a female problem. It’s not my problem.
with respect, you have an attituse problem.
It is the nature of our sexual differences that men have the obligation to initiate most relationships. You may like or lump it, nature doesn’t care.
One of the interesting quirks of this dynamic is that in a nice society like modern America women are able to choose to which male, if any, to offer their affection.
So . . . guess what, this dynamic woks both ways. For those women that only want a casual relationship, there will be endless opportunities. and my guess little long term happiness. This also slices both ways. Seeking a nice woman that likes nice guys?
> good idea to offer to open the door and help her w/ her chair.
Best Regards,
Mike, I know what Gawain is talking about because I’ve experienced it myself, more than once: a woman that I knew good and damn well was not attracted to me, but she expected me to do her the traditional courtesy just because. It’s a control thing with women who see beta males (most men) as their servants. There’s a huge difference between a woman who does that, and a women who is flirting. I’m the type of guy that women rarely flirt with, so I know what I’m talking about here.
That said, it pays to not underestimate. Yesterday I got on an elevator behind a young lady who was really busy with a cell phone conversation. As the elevator went down, I couldn’t help but overhear her end; apparently she was either an office manager or a salesperson, and it sounded like they had some kind of major inventory screwup and she was making frantic calls trying to find stock to cover a promised customer delivery. When the elevator stopped at the ground floor, I invited her to exit ahead of me. She was delighted! Such a little thing. Maybe it was the only thing that went right for her all day.
I second that Gawain has a attitude problem. With his attitude, the only women he will encounter (or perceive) are the ones that reinforce his negative point of view. Not that he hasn’t encountered women who truly are what he says, but now he shoehorns all/most women into that category – his mind is not open to a range of possibilities.
P.S., I am a thoroughly modern woman, good character and morals, love when doors are held open (and when I walk through, I hold the door until the male behind me has taken it – I don’t just sail through and leave him holding the door). Taught my sons the same. And, like Helen, I hold the door for anyone behind me, male or female.
Proverbs – He who finds a wife finds what is good and receives favor from the LORD.
So, two different young women responded in two different ways to your politeness. From this you conclude that you’re screwed whether you open a door for “her” or not because “these girls” will be angry. Perhaps you should act in a way that is respectful based on your own judgments and then handle those who disagree while appreciating those who share your sensibilities. Yes, the entire world is not going to agree with you, but at least you’ll be acting in a reasonable, mature fashion. Well raised folks tend to appreciate such things, particularly womenfolk.
It makes little sense to lump every women in one category and expect them to all react in the same way to whatever you do. This idea was reiterated throughout your entire post, coupled with frequent insults against nearly an entire gender for behavior that seemed tame in comparison to your own admitted actions. It’s going to be very difficult to find women who don’t fall into this unpleasant mold you’ve created for them if you continue to fit every negative stereotype about men that sends reasonable women running the opposite way.
Yeah I agree – - women are brought up thinking they are entitled to everything these days. At least I brought up my 24 year old daughter to be different than that. I told my son who is 19 that women these days just want to be bought all kinds of items, taken here and taken there, and that if they are not interested in helping HIM out by being a partner with him in what he is interested in, then to heck with them. He can not even find a decent one to go out with because they are all into drugs!
It sounds like you’re teaching your son that women aren’t to be respected, and he’s learning the lesson.
That’s BS. A woman should no more be respected for her vagina than a man should be obeyed for his penis. If a woman acts like a bi**h, talks like a bi**h and has the attitude of a bi**h, then she’s a bi**h. Treat her accordingly.
The women who do not take having doors opened for them as a sign of respect, do not deserve any. My husband always opens the door for me, waits for me to get in the car and then shuts the door. When arriving at our destination, he gets out of the car and comes around and opens the door for me, offers his hand to help me out and that is because he is a gentleman and he respects me. When a stranger opens a door for me, I always smile and say thanks. I like to be pampered (even though I am perfectly capable of opening doors myself). I married my current because he always shows me respect, not only at home but when we are out in public. I enjoy being spoiled and any woman who would rather fend for herself doesn’t know what she’s missing.
I open doors. If my mother ever caught me not opening doors, she’d box my ears.
Usually, I get a surprised thanks.
I only remember one time where some nasty crunt decided to take objection. After she ran out of breath from her tirade, I looked at her, smiled and said, “My mistake, I thought I was opening the door for a Lady”. I then proceeded through the door and let it close behind me.
I won’t let a horrid shrill harpy stop me from doing what I should do, even if it is tilting at windmills. Besides, my mother still packs a mean wallop.
A variation on this: Annoyed woman says, “I don’t want you to hold the door because I am a lady.” Response, “Actually I am holding it for you because I am a gentleman.”
I wager that if your mother heard that you called a woman – any woman – a ‘nasty c–t’, she’d be ashamed of you.
Thank you, sir. The other 99.9% of us who are ladies greatly appreciate your respect and kindness.
The courtesy argument aside, the German woman was rude. This is more a violation of the “When in Rome” rule.
And let’s not even start about taking off one’s hat.
I’ve had just that experience though: contempt or verbal abuse. I’ll say it doesn’t seem to happen as much as it used to.
“And let’s not even start about taking off one’s hat.”
I disagree. Let’s. Women don’t take off their hats, and seem oblivious to the fact that their hats get in the way of the view of people behind them.
I’m still enjoying the fact that they’ve started wearing hats again.
Women don’t take off their hats in public because their hats, unlike yours, are held onto their hair with pins. Taking it off is a much bigger deal, and getting it back on properly would require even more time and a mirror.
I wasn’t particularly mannerly in my youth (which I’ll bump up to age 25) but when I left the east coast for the west (Portland OR, 1990) I was given a tour of the law school by a female student. We came to a door and as I was there first, I held it open for her, which I do all the time, regardless of a person’s sex. Boy was she deeply offended.
If you can’t handle a small gesture of courtesy, because it somehow affects your political viewpoint of life, then the problem doesn’t lie with courtesy. I would hold open a door for Governor Nikki Haley, while recognizing that she could be a capable political leader (not in SC anymore, haven’t been keeping track.) If you can’t separate those two parts of life, then go back to kindergarten. Meanwhile, I’ll continue to open doors. I will try hard to not add to the coarsening of society.
I open doors for ladies, as well as anyone who has their hands full or is infirm in some way, but then I was raised by my grandfather (born in 1920) after my father passed away. I’ve taught my sons to open doors for ladies as well, both they and I get many compliments on their manners.
Just a small correction here: A *gentleman* always holds the door for a *lady*. If my intuition tells me she’s a lady, I’ll hold the door. Otherwise, she can fend for herself.
pdwalker: “My mistake, I thought I was opening the door for a Lady” perfect response.
rbj: “Meanwhile, I’ll continue to open doors. I will try hard to not add to the coarsening of society.” Thank you, exactly right.
I live in Houston. Almost 100% of the time, men and boys open the door for me, as I’m sure they do for all women. My response is a grateful smile and a thank you!I really appreciate politeness and thoughtfulness.
I open the door for anyone who might need help, and always hold the door for someone coming behind me.
I’ve taught my 5 sons to always open the door for a lady, and to always help anyone who might need help.
Men: don’t let ignorant women cause you to be less than polite. Make your mamas proud!
Uh, am I the only one then that is actively closing doors on women? (I mean just after I step through the door?)
j/k, I actually hold doors open for everyone.
I’ve reached the point where I do and I’m apt to comment, “You do not have to be a b—-” if there’s the behavior I’ve observed too many times of a woman lacking the grace to accept politeness. It was just a touch jarring at a younger age at a plain old Moo-U midwestern school to have the coeds actively go to a separate door and make a scene about being fully capable. They fill young women’s heads so full of garbage that basic manners are considered oppressive. I used to avoid it, but I figured — just call an ugly sow an ugly name if she has to act ugly in public.
To a woman, it was always an angry white girl who would choose the other door while cradling a Margaret Atwood novel. A black girl was going to smile at you and say that your momma raised you right. I once got both the ugly feminist scene and the polite thanks in the same door opening for a multiracial group of girls.
I’m a bit ashamed to say I did this just last week. I was at the Post Office, say a young woman walking up behind me toward the same (and only door), so I held it open for her. She scowled, wouldn’t even make eye contact and walked on through. I said, just loud enough for her to hear “You’re welcome, you little troll.”
She just kept on walking.
I’m not proud of myself, but it sure felt good.
I hold the door open for people behind me as a common courtesy. If they are offended, I look them in the eye and laugh at them. I don’t hold the door open for them to be impressed or grateful, I hold it open because I appreciate it when people do that for me. A small instance of the golden rule in action.
Trey
^This is the right attitude.
Courtesy is behaviour we offer others to show respect, both for them and for ourselves.
when I was a punk kid 25 years ago in college, I had a door wrenched from my grip by a femme who was offended that I thought she couldn’t open her own door. I was kinda shocked so I I didn’t say anything to her, though I told all of my friends to watch out for that one, ‘cuz she was trouble. And she was. By winter I doubt if anyone at a college of 2500 would have dated her, even though she was pretty.
These days, I think most women are more forgiving of a guy my age, because they know I won’t care what they say. I still prolly don’t have a snappy comeback like EscondidoSurfer… but I would say: “I’m not doing this because you can’t, rather because I wish to. You may have heard of kindness…”
I taught both my kids [m & f] to open doors for people if you get there first, regardless of gender or need. Acts of kindness reflect an inner light… and you can tell who doesn’t have it. So give them some of your own. usually everyone feels better for it.
when I was a punk kid 25 years ago in college, I had a door wrenched from my grip by a femme who was…
…probably a LUG.*
* lesbian until graduation.
The answer is simple. You hold the door for a lady for YOUR benefit, not hers. You don’t look for her approval, you need only your own. There’s a simple rule that will stand you well in life. Do what is right, when it’s right, because it’s right, and for no other reason that it’s right. If others decide to acknowledge and approve of your actions, that’s just a bonus. If others decide to diplay the fact that their mothers were either ineffective or delinquent, that’s on them. The key is to be smooth about it and remember that you do this for you and not for them.
As a serial offender in the door opening game, I can tell you that the number of people who act like jerks about it are outnumbered 100 to 1. The best are the ladies with children. They generally insist that their children say thank you.
And don’t forget to hold the door open for the guy following behind you. You can hold the door for every woman you see but if you drop it in the face of a person just because he has external plumbing, you’re still a jerk.
DING! DING! DING! WE HAVE A WINNER, FOLKS!
Yes.
I think I’ve gotten a cold shoulder a few times for holding open a door, but I’m not going to let that stop me. I’m not so fragile as to give up my manners just because someone didn’t appreciate them. That’s what surprises me in a lot of the comments on this thread. The gentleness of being a gentleman isn’t in the reward, it’s in the act itself. And how much of a gentleman can someone be if he’s holding a door for a woman and mentally preparing to call her a b—- if she doesn’t appreciate it?
Exactly.
Indeed. One behaves well because it is the right thing to do; one should not let the fact that some to whom one behaves well behave badly deter one from continuing to behave politely.
I was raised to open doors for women, to say “sir” and “ma’am” to elders and not to use given names without permission, to walk on the ‘curb’ side when walking with a woman, to stand when a woman enters the room or needs a seat on a bus or train, to help the woman next to me with her chair at table, etc. I still do most of these things, though I’m now old enough that there are few to whom I still say “sir” or “ma’am”.
In the ’70s and beyond, many girls and women resented such courtesies. It always seemed to me that if I knew a girl or woman, and she had specifically asked that such courtesies not be extended, the polite thing to do was not to extend them, though sometimes the behaviors are so ingrained as to be automatic.
Specifically with respect to the young German woman who behaved badly — and I have actually run into a couple of them in similar circumstances — it is not inappropriate to incline one’s head ever so slightly, give a small smile, and say in fluent German Gnädige Fräulein.
[By way of explanation, this form of address is no longer in common use in Germany, but it is what a well-bred older German would say - I have found it almost always to bring the woman/girl up short and momentarily confuse them because it is so unexpected, giving one the opportunity to quietly continue on with one's business. She will understand the phrase perfectly well, will have seen it in literature, but may never have had it used to her if she is under 30, unless from an older relative if she comes from the middle or upper classes.]
We do the right thing when no one is watching because it is the right thing to do – and we’re watching.
Amen
I open doors for animals
If Obama had a son he would look like the guy that held the door for me
“I don’t hold the door open for them to be impressed or grateful, I hold it open because I appreciate it when people do that for me. A small instance of the golden rule in action.”
___
Wasn’t there something in the Bible about people making a big show of donating a little bit, whereas a poor, old woman just donated everything she had anonymously? Or something like that?
I’ve noticed that you make a really big show of doing “Christian” stuff, whether you really do it or not. You are constantly tooting your little horn about what a swell guy you are. That’s one of the things that bug me – and it’s very common – among “Christians”, and frankly, it’s something I watch out for in life because people like that can very quickly stab you in the back.
As Gandhi said: “I like your Christ, I just don’t like your Christians”.
Christians are looking for Christ’s approval. It might be nice to have yours, too, I suppose, or maybe not. It’s definitely not essential to have Gandhi’s. It was okay with Gandhi that when the British left India there were large-scale massacres of Indians killing Indians. If he felt scorn for us Christians, I can live with it.
Dude, you see holding a door for someone as a big show of righteousness? That is weird pal. It looks like you have a chip on your shoulder. Where is all your hostility coming from? I am not ashamed of my faith, but it does not teach me that I am good or moral, it teaches me that I am depraved and fallen, with no hope except from my Savior. It sounds like you and I can agree on the first part at least. 8)
But seriously, why are you so hostile toward Christianity?
Trey
“That is weird pal.”
Beyond weird. If he hates seeing Christians behaving virtuously then he is one sick and perverted creature.
But maybe it’s just that he is embarrassed when he sees other people behaving virtuously, because they implicitly shame him?
Bernie Madoff was a wonderful guy who actually DELIVERED (in the beginning – to anyone who cashed out early) big returns.
How could you be against that?
Well, my assessment in life is that phonies are to be exposed. And little fat guys who constantly and loudly toot their little horn (read my post, it’s not just about this instance of his bragging) are to be watched carefully.
I don’t have a problem with Christians per se (there are probably Christian monks who really … mean it). I just have a problem that lots of the hypocrites and frauds and manipulators try to decry that they are Christians. Like, lots and lots and lots, to the extent that I see a pattern.
Frankly, Jesus would be tipping over the tables of these scumbags today.
But I get that you just don’t want to see what I am saying, so continue to attack something I haven’t said. Some of the readers – who don’t register for a comment – will get it.
You don’t have a problem with all Christians (you give a few monks a break), just the vast majority of them (“lots and lots and lots…”). And how did Christians suddenly become the point of discussion?
And then you declare that the millions who do not post a reply to your little screed are in agreement with you.
You might want to look up the term ‘projection’. You have some serious issues.
“And then you declare that the millions who do not post a reply to your little screed are in agreement with you.”
–
No, I didn’t say that Darkwater.
If you are that keen on discrediting me that you are just going to make stuff up, I don’t have anything convincing to throw your way.
In general, if someone is into Christianity, fine. I’m not, but I know that I don’t have all the answers in the universe.
I just want to bring out the “Elmer Gantry”-type people. The Jim Bakker-type people. The Jimmy Swaggart-type people. The Creflo Dollar type people. The Joel Osteen type people. PASS THE DONATION PLATE FOR THE ALMIGHTY! And also all the people who take Christianity and their “faith” and shove it right up into your face, bragging about how they are holier than thou, for their own manipulative reasons. Jesus would be actively tipping their tables over, along with those of the IRS, I guess. Jesus would be mocking the latter people, not the people who sincerely devote their life to spirituality in the form of Christianity.
On top of it, I’m also simply sick of reading the bragging statements of TMink. They are no longer cute.
I get it. I don’t think you get it yet.
VVRM, the topic of the post was about holding open doors. Many of us said we do that. You think mine was bragging? Really? How virtuous is it to hold a door? Not very! If I wanted to brag or aggrandize to people who do not know me and whom I do not know, I would write something spectacular like I give 50% of my income to the poor, or I donated a kidney to a person I did not know, or something else like that.
You are just so weird you get your panties all in a wad when I answered the question like everyone else did.
That is weird.
Trey
TMink,
I think I’ve already stated (like … lots and lots and lots of times) that it is your pattern of bragging and phoniness that I’m talking about. But you’re going to get right back to thinking I’m “weird” (why not use “creepy”?) because you are a gentleman and open doors for women.
It took decades for Bernie Madoff to be made out as a phony and a fake. There are certain signs – like “name-dropping” (i.e. I assisted in the therapy of a famous football player) and constant bragging etc.
Carry on, TMink. You are a pious Christian who only has others in mind, and you are only here to help. I got it.
Why do you think that door holding for random women is a christian concept? I can’t for the life of me think of the biblical justification for that. Help others? Sure, that’s there peppered throughout and in the Tradition as well. But help random women just because they’re women in a preferential way? That’s just not there.
Jesus said treat others the way I wish to be treated. I like it when people hold the door for me. So I hold the door for them. I do not hold doors open for women, I hold the door for people. It is a courtesy that comes from my spiritual values as a Christian.
Well, that and bragging on the internet. 8)
Trey
‘I’ve noticed that you make a really big show of doing “Christian” stuff, whether you really do it or not. You are constantly tooting your little horn about what a swell guy you are.’
Whereas VVRM really is a swell guy.
I’m a bit absent-minded, so I don’t always remember to open doors for people. But when I do, I’ve never had anyone get offended by it. But that’s probably because I live in small-town rural Canada, where everyone is polite and mostly old-fashioned, even the youth (comparatively). I do find some of the rules a bit confusing, though — opening car doors, for example. I always feel like it’s going to be taken as flirting, rather than politeness.
That said, despite being only 29, I feel quite old-fashioned and out of place sometimes, even here in rural Canada. I can’t help but feel like if I had grown up in the 1940s or ’50s, a “provider” type like me would be married with several kids by now, instead of being passed over for the more exciting socially dominant males who are more fun at parties. But perhaps not, I don’t know.
I’d advise you not to give up. I didn’t meet the right woman until I was 35. The wrong ones… well, at some point you’ve got to go “You know, it might not be THEM, it might be that what > I < am looking for isn't what I'm really needing or wanting."
Once I took a solo backpacking trip, and had plenty of time to think about that particular issue, the answer (at least for me) became clear. I needed to think outside the box I'd put myself in. Maybe I was looking for the wrong things.
Shortly after that, I met a woman who was bright, intelligent, funny, and warm… and by contemporary standards a bit overweight. (Not obese, just not skinny.) Standard media conventions would tell you that she's only 'friend' material, and you're supposed to go for the hot blonde.
But that's only in the movies and TV – and I think media tropes have screwed up more people's ideas of what a proper relationship should be like than Home Depot has screwdrivers…
She was working on her Master's thesis, and her copy of WordPerfect had crashed. I had a bootleg copy, installed it on her system, and asked her to dinner. We spent the rest of the evening talking.
About a year later we were married.
The key, I think, is mutual respect, kindness, support and love. There's GOT to be something more than just sex appeal. If there isn't – if you don't even particularly LIKE the person outside the bedroom – then you're just looking at a breakup.
(My wife has a friend who looked down on me. I wasn't what she considered a 'proper husband', you see. I didn't make significantly more than my lovely bride, I didn't drive a fancy car, I wasn't 'exciting'. In September we'll have been married for 20 years, while she hasn't had a relationship in 15. She knew what she was supposed to find for a happy life, and she wasn't going to bend her standards.)
Anyway, enough rambling. Good luck to you – just keep your eyes and mind open, and don't be afraid to try dating women you normally wouldn't!
I agree with everything you wrote there, JLawson. I’ve had quite a bit of time to think through all this stuff in the past 10 years, and came to all the same conclusions pretty early on. Alas, the ability to see the problem clearly doesn’t always translate into the ability to do anything about it. :/
“hat said, despite being only 29, I feel quite old-fashioned and out of place sometimes, even here in rural Canada. I can’t help but feel like if I had grown up in the 1940s or ’50s, a “provider” type like me would be married with several kids by now, instead of being passed over for the more exciting socially dominant males who are more fun at parties. But perhaps not, I don’t know.”
——–
No, because women are pretty consistent over time and geography. When their options are limited, they go with the provider type – until their options are opened up. The best scenario is that the provider type pays for her, while she goes out with the types that excite her. And you better believe – whether it’s fair or not (and it’s not) – the family court is going to bind the “provider” to be her base.
It’s not rocket science. Look at how women behave, not what they say. The problem is that once you really do that, you can’t go backwards. You SEE what women really are. You SEE all the money they take. You SEE their manipulation.
And the problem is, once you really SEE what women are, you can’t tell anyone who hasn’t SEEN it himself. Because they will call you a misogynist and a woman-hater.
So don’t believe a word I say, start looking at women objectively. Just LOOK.
You might accidently SEE.
No, because women are pretty consistent over time and geography. When their options are limited, they go with the provider type – until their options are opened up. The best scenario is that the provider type pays for her, while she goes out with the types that excite her. And you better believe – whether it’s fair or not (and it’s not) – the family court is going to bind the “provider” to be her base.
It’s not rocket science. Look at how women behave, not what they say. The problem is that once you really do that, you can’t go backwards. You SEE what women really are. You SEE all the money they take. You SEE their manipulation.
And the problem is, once you really SEE what women are, you can’t tell anyone who hasn’t SEEN it himself. Because they will call you a misogynist and a woman-hater.
So don’t believe a word I say, start looking at women objectively. Just LOOK.
You might accidently SEE.
What I’ve “SEEN” in my observations is that women are pretty much the same as men, in that we both have primal animal instincts competing with our higher, nobler self. Men and women do have different primal instincts, of course: men are more attracted to displays of physical beauty, while women are more attracted to displays of confidence and strength, for instance. In general (with some exceptions) men tend to have more “hunter” and “warrior” instincts, while women tend to have more “nurturing” and “relationship” instincts. Neither side is perfect, and both have a tendency to give in to their baser instincts, especially in the absence of ennobling influences such as religion which strengthen the higher, nobler self.
The primary difference today, aside from the decline of the influence of Christianity in Western culture, is that our society has become so safe and prosperous that women no longer require a male provider in order to survive. In the past there was a strong survival pressure which pushed women to use the higher functions of reason and wisdom to try to see past the surface and identify which men were truly good providers, and which were “all talk and no walk”, as they say. Today, in the absence of that pressure, many women simply go along with their primal instincts, and pursue whichever man is able to put on the flashiest, showiest display of strength and confidence, without stopping to determine if he’s really capable of providing anything underneath all that.
This leads to a society where the few men who are socially confident and good at these showy displays tend to date a disproportionate percentage of the women, without feeling pressure to commit and settle down, while a large number of capable men who would otherwise be good providers, but lack the social confidence to attract attention, spend a lot of time alone. That’s why you phenomena like the “pickup artist” community, comprised of men lacking natural social skills, studying and teaching each other how to perform these displays of confidence.
Women of good character, who act primarily on their higher self and ignore their baser instincts, do exist, but they’re just as rare as men of good character who do the same. So I find your assessment that all women are some kind of manipulative sociopaths to be overly simplistic and kind of dumb.
I think your last sentence somewhat contradicts the rest of your post, and I would just point out that the OP didn’t introduce the universal quantifier, you did, from my reading.
My parents would get out of their graves & smack me if I didn’t hold the door open for a woman. I also do it for men, especially senior citizens. Finally, I still open the car door for my wife, even after being married for 24 years.
Same here. After 22 years of marriage I still open the car door for my wife, and she still says “thank you”. There’s something to be said for being old-fashioned.
I am of the opinion that just about everything that has happened in American society since, say, 1967 has been an unmitigated wrong. Sometimes the only thing to do is pretend all of it never happened. That includes opening doors.
I know what you mean.
That’s why I still use a telegraph – I even get my Internet over a telegraph. If it was good enough for my great grandpappy, it’s good enough for me, I always say.
Hearing the words, “I can open my own f**king door” screeched at me just really gets Mr. Happy enthusiastic so I open doors for all of them, especially the ones with short, dark, messy, still-wet hair and pursed lips.
Always be civil. The people who deserve it appreciate it, and the people who don’t deserve it are irritated to no end. Win-Win.
Excellent advice!
I’m 73, male, and still find it to be my gentleman’s privilige to open doors for others. If a woman doesn’t appreciate the gesture, I don’t feel put down in any way but instead feel satisfied that I have politely fulfilled my obligation and privilege. Political correctness, you see, can’t overcome a lifetime of culture.
Here in Nebraska everybody holds doors for everybody, depending on who gets there first.
My experience as well, throughout the middle of the country (I’m in TX but thankfully not in Austin). Having grown up on the East Coast and been stationed on the West, I gotta say that this is a Blue Culture Issue.
If somebody is rude because I was courteous, their rudeness does not constitute the need for emergency introspection on my part.
Years ago, I opened the door for a woman (can’t bring myself to call her a lady) and got my face slapped for the trouble. She called me a ‘chauvenist pig’
and told me she didn’t need any of that crap. I looked her straight in the eye and told her it must be a terrible burden to carry all that anger to the point that she couldn’t even accept a small kindness from a stranger. From the look on her face (confusion) you would have thought that I slapped HER. I always secretly hoped that she would come to a better place in her soul from that little encounter but I doubt it. Sharks come in many forms (some of them red-headed and outwardly beautiful) but on the inside still ugly as sin. She probably ended up as a lawyer.
This stuff needs to stop. I was raised in the South and have always acted as a gentleman but it needs to end now. A woman should never be treated as anything other than an equal. My wife wants to be treated as a princess but does not seem to understand that if she wants to treated like a princess she better treat me like a prince. This kind of thing creates an entitlement attitude. Nothing wrong for holding the door open because there is a person there regardless of gender.
If anything physical (at all) happens like that ever again, I encourage you to call the police and report the incident as an assault.
Some time ago I decided that I would continue to hold the doors open (for men, women, kids, etc) regardless of any nasty responses. And I have gotten a few from women (never men). I decided to continue to be polite and respectful in spite of rude behavior for my own sake (for me it is the right thing to do)and for the society at large. I refuse to become part of the rude, inconsiderate culture I see around me.
I don’t expect people to hold doors for me, but it’s always a pleasant surprise when they do, and I always thank them.
I also hold doors (especially big, heavy church doors) for anyone coming up the steps behind me.
I open and hold doors for anyone and everyone. Women are more likely than men or children to stop and chat with each other in front of the door, and occasionally give me a surprised look when I let it close rather than waste HVAC energy waiting on them. Most people say “Thank you.” and I respond “You’re very welcome.” I don’t recall ever having been significantly chastised for it. I don’t intend to stop.
No.
The last time I held a door open I was informed in no uncertain terms that “my arms are not broken”. So I let go. Darn near broke her nose as she was not expecting that.
The only exception I make is if I am going through the door…I will keep it from slamming into the person behind me
I will say that the scenario of the access-controlled door can be one of those cases where it works better to let the conventional courtesy slide, because it’s too awkward. Between no-piggybacking rules, and alarms that go off if the door remains open too long, it may be better for each person to handle the door themselves. Although I have seen situations with heavy vault doors that only give you six seconds of open time, and the petite women had to make arrangments with men to assist since they couldn’t get the door open quick enough by themselves.
When I’m at home in the South, I nearly always hold doors. In other parts of the country, I’m a lot more careful.
I do doors. On the other hand, I don’t actually look at the people I hold doors open for, so ymmv.
This isn’t really about door-holding.
It’s about the fact that young women have incredible sexual power over (young) men, and no one seemingly wants to recognize that.
*Some* older men are able to look at that situation and see it for what it is. Young men are blinded – and easily manipulated – by sex; lots of older men just follow in the grooves, so to speak, and therefore behave the same. With them, though, it’s like the elephant that has a thin piece of string holding its foot to a stake. It couldn’t rip it out as a baby, so it quits trying. Frankly, the older elephant could easily rip its foot up and stomp down on the bitch. So to speak. Lots of women hold their looks even up to 40 (but lots don’t) and the slide from 40 down to 50 is devastating to lots of women who have only relied on their looks to get by.
If you take sexual appeal away from women and really look at them – oh … my … God. Revulsion sets in. That is what you formerly put up on a pedestal. Younger guys will absolutely not understand what I am saying.
And most young women don’t understand that their vagina will eventually dry up and if they want that man in their life to stick around, they’d better have been doing something for him other than manipulating him with sex.
The same principle explains the prevalence of dumb blondes. So many* had been getting by on their looks since puberty that by their late teens their brains had atrophied. Use it or lose it, they say.
*If you think I am referring to all blondes, you’re probably a female.
“I can understand why men no longer want to open doors or help women. I do feel sad, however, that it has come to a situation where society is at this level.”
I appreciate as a man that firstly you understand it. I must say as much as I have the issues that I do with women (and there are many) I still cling to some values that I think are important. I would go out of my way to hold a door open for a woman, or carry a heavy object, or help an older lady to get her shopping into her car, or give my seat on public transport etc. This shows kindness and respect and is a postive interaction of the genders. If you don’t do this guys, try it. And ask yourself afterward, did she feel good? Do you feel good? Yes. No losers here. Only a positive interaction for both. No matter how many times you feel the kicks and punches from women, you need to be strong here. They are not all kickers and punchers. Let the feminists watch it. Maybe one day you will stand up and give your seat to one, and change her forever.
How long before ‘accidentally’ slamming a door into ‘deserving’ people’s face becomes a national sport and holding the door open is viewed as a violent threat?
I’ve seen this happen a few times now, it’s one of the few assaults that have a plausible deniability — after all, it’s a courtesy, and no-one would abuse social conventions designed to help one another to abuse others because it’s fun and they can, right?
I’m an older man working at a liberal arts college. If the person following me through a door is close enough I open the door for them (and often vice versa). They are usually pleased and thank me. Even the feminists smile warmly and thank me as they walk through. I suppose being co-workers has something to do with it.
Best,
Richard
The norm at the larger state university where I work is similar. First person through holds door for follower, it’s determined by order of arrival and not by sex or age.
As a Southerner, my mother trained me to do that and quite a few other mannerly things that seem to be out of date. Did you know that when a man and woman are walking together on a sidewalk, the man is supposed to be on the street side to shield the woman just in case a car comes by and splashes through a puddle?
Now my rule is that if you have your hands full, man or woman, I will open the door for you. Or if a women is dressed up and tottering around on high heels, I’ll give it a try and hope for the best. You guys in high heels are on your own.
Yes. And everyone should open/hold doors for the elderly or disabled.
You should say “Thank you!” if someone is so thoughtful to open a door for you.
Richard Widmark held a door open for me at the post office once. It was a lovely experience.
“You guys in high heels are on your own.”
I know you don’t really mean this darling. Mwaa.
22 years ago at 20 years old I went to pick up a girl I had asked out on a date, I went to open the car door for her and she said “women can open car doors for themselves” the mechanism was not that good however, she struggled a few seconds. I got back in the car, opened the window and said “They can also take themselves out to dinner” and drove off, clearly not one I wanted to spend more time with. the look on her face in the rearview mirror as I drove off was priceless. There are good women out there, lucky escape from wasting money.
QED
If we ever happen to meet, I’m buying you a drink!
If feminists actually believed the claptrap they spew, they’d be lauding you as a man who “gets it”, Douglas.
“They can also take themselves out to dinner,” oh that’s so precious! And even feminist females have discovered that dining alone and buying herself a diamond ring just doesn’t do it for them.
It depends on your motivation. If you’re being “nice” (outward display to improve social standing), then, “No.”
If you’re being “kind” (treating someone as one of your kin/kind), then, “Yes.”
I’ve been told to be “Kind,” by God. God hasn’t told me to be “Nice.” It’s not a distinction without a difference.
I was born in the North and never trained in the finer points of gentlemanly behavior. I moved South and married a southern girl who made it plain that she expected doors to be held for her. We made a trip to Boston once and I stopped to hold the door for two young ladies. They looked at me like I was some sort of pervert. Culture. What you gonna do.
I have not had the pleasure of having a “lady” spit venom at me for opening a door for her and I can say most have smiled and said thank you. It is a surprise to hear the many instances of the lack of civility from people for a simple kindness.
I will relate the experience of when I opened a car door for a lady I was giving a ride to. My wife told me later the woman asked her if I was making fun of her in some way. My wife explained to the woman that I was raised to be a gentleman and hold doors for her(my wife) and my daughter when we go out. The lady was shocked that a man would do that.
Also, I was traveling on business with a female colleague for several weeks and at one presentation toward the trip’s end she was speaking to several of the women she knew before we started. She was complimenting me on what a wonderful travelling partner I was. I opened doors for her, held her chair, etc…actually I was being polite.
“…The woman was utterly rude…”
Yes, she was and she ought to be told about it, straightaway. Personally, I hold the door for anyone who’s passing my way, especially anyone with any sort of encumberance. And I’ve had the door held for me by able-bodied women, and all of that is the way I think it should be. It’s common courtesy, and anyone who sniffs at such behavior ought to have the door slammed in thier face.
Have you noticed that women seldom hold open the door for other women ? These same women are also lousey tippers – just as a waitress. Sorry, server.
On the other hand – who cares.
I’ve opened doors for women since age 10, which would make it… 48 years now, and counting. I have NEVER experienced anything other than a smile and a “thank you” from any woman–and I’ve lived in Austin, Chicago and New York (to mention just a few of the more “progressive” places). This also includes various college campuses in these places, by the way. If any woman were to snap at me in the manner mentioned above, I’d just shrug, write her off as not a lady, and open the door for the next woman as I’ve always done. I will never change my manners just because some people think it wrong or otherwise misconstrue my actions.
So for all those feministicals out there: rock, meet hard place.
If those females don’t have to change their behavior, then you’re enabling them in their discourteousness and stupidity.
I live in Studio City and work in Universal City, which one would think is pretty liberal territory. Regardless, I was raised to open doors and do so today. Have never had a bad reaction.
I started teaching my 21 y/o son to open doors for women and elderly when he was very small. My husband will allow the door to slam in my face, he considers me capable of opening my own door. I told him it was a courtesy thing, but he is incapable of understanding. My son gets it.
Helen,
My answer is contained in an old joke.
—-
A man went on a date with a young woman he had only recently met. When they arrived for their dining experience the fellow without thought open the car door for the young lady.
“You don’t have to open the door for me. I am not feeble you know!” she intoned.
“I don’t do it for you. I do it because I am a gentlemen. Whether you are lady worth my time however is in doubt.”
—-
And that is the crux of it, isn’t it?
70 YO WM here. In Memphis now. I take the position that the first one to the door should hold it open for others to follow, race gender age immaterial. I have never been berated. I also refer to men as sir and ladies as ma’am from check out clerks and wait staff to people I meet in casual conversation–again, never been berated. Apparently time, and some unpleasant people have passed me by for which I am eternally grateful.
I feel sorry for people who harangue others for opening doors for them. I have never seen that happen, even when I grew up in liberal Boston.
The idea that anyone would do that is simply foreign here in Dallas, although I do see plenty of people who don’t hold doors. I hold doors all the time if the person is relatively close behind me.
I was raised right and was such a good kid. I would open a door for anyone, especially Mom. I would open both doors in a double set of doors, like going into the mall. Even when Mom would stand in the way of the next door like, ‘I know it’s a door but I don’t know what it does.’
Years later I realized my training was to satisfy expectations. I started observing Mom’s practices when she came to a door. Until I finally realized she’d stand in a pouring rain for three days waiting for a man to open her car door. Even when no one was with her. As an aside, nor in her life has she touched a gas pump.
So I started delaying… ‘I’ll be right there’, or ‘You go ahead.’ Then I realized most women I knew were suitably capable of, and willing to open their own doors. And sometimes hold it for me.
As a parallel lesson in life I learned to judge people by action and intent. What is that person doing and why. Good, bad, or ugly.
Good – I’ll go out of my way to work the doors.
Bad – I’ll trick them into working the doors for me.
Ugly – never go there.
Mom has passed but she taught me well.
I have two opinions
1) Auto-closing doors: If it’s an auto-closing door, hold the door for anyone (man or woman) who would otherwise get to the door while it’s still closing itself. People are able-bodied enough to open a closed door, but having to stop a door in the process of closing and THEN open it is annoying
2) Dates: If she’s wearing high heels, I open car doors, and any other door we come across. If she can’t be bothered to play the female role of wearing heels, then she’s treated as a physical equal. I’m not even saying it’s a bad thing to not wear heels … going casual on dates is acceptable. But heels means “treat me like a lady”. Flats means “I got this”.
3)
I do and will always continue to open doors for women. I will also offer my seat to women if I’m sitting and they’re standing. I believe that such behavior is honorable for a man, but I see many guys (most younger than me) not caring or noticing. In the long run, I think it will be their loss as those who think and bother to open doors will probably tend to have other attitudes about such things that help them stand out from the mob.
If there are women who dislike having doors opened for them enough to make a point of it, that’s probably a warning sign, IMHO.
There is something to the “Culture” explanation.
About 20 years ago (before everyone had cellphones), my wife and I met another couple at a theater. After the movie, we decided to leave his car at the theater and take my car to a restaurant for a late dinner. Upon returning them to their car afterwards, I waited until he started his car before driving away.
They later told us that he had been insulted because I had acted as though his car was unreliable junk! We responded that it was common courtesy not to abandon them until we were certain that everything was okay.
I’m 58, older than the current culture wars. When I hit my 20s and men started holding doors for me, it conflicted with my lively sense of my own competence. I didn’t want to be rude, but I also didn’t want to be helped. I was too embarrassed to come up with a proper response that covered both bases, nor did I want to be rude to the men who were so polite to me. God knows what I mumbled on such occasions.
Of course, I always hold the door for whomever is following, stepping aside to do it if they’re burdened, else going through first and holding it for the next one. Rising to give your seat to someone in a bus is gender-neutral; why shouldn’t door opening be the same, I thought?
I’ve learned a better mannered response since then. I just wanted to point out that I, basically, wanted to also be the one doing the chivalrous thing (holding the door) regardless of my own gender, so when men did it for me, I felt robbed of my own ability to be “the hero”. Not rational, perhaps. But not intended to be a slam to the gentlemen, either.
Women sometimes want to be “gentlemen”, too, in all the best senses of that word, doing for others rather than have others doing for them. There’s no good traditional slot for that, unfortunately, because men feel it robs them of their own manhood. I can sympathize. What’s the solution?
Should men open doors for women? Yes.
You never know whats on the other side.
I hold the doors open. Mostly, women seem to appreciate it. But if it p’s them off, so much the better.
When I was 10 I was out for lunch with my father, a male friend of his, and his friend’s fiance. After the meal the fiance took out a cigarette, I spied a pack of matches by the sugar packets, so I handed them to her. My father immediately apologized to her, and let me know that men light a woman’s cigarette, hold the door for them and let them go in or out first, and offer to help them put their coat on.
I’m now 43, I’ve lived in a liberal NE state my entire life, I still follow those guidelines, and have yet to receive any nasty attitude about it. Maybe I’ve just been lucky? If that day ever comes, I think #38 JimG’s comment will most likely be the path to follow. “…continue to be polite and respectful in spite of rude behavior for my own sake (for me it is the right thing to do) and for the society at large. I refuse to become part of the rude, inconsiderate culture I see around me.”
A gentleman opens the door for everyone when possible without making a display. I’ve never had anyone react negatively.
Younger men tend to go in first and let the door hit you as you walk through.
I have this problem more with woman. Often, I can tell they’re racing me to the door to get through first. To bad they don’t realize I’d gladly open the door and let them through first. Either they don’t want a man to open the door for them, or men open doors so rarely that they don’t expect it.
Two days ago, I waited a few seconds to hold the door to my apartment building open for a young woman who lives there (no conversation, she said “Thanks,” and with a straight face I said “You’re welcome”). Yesterday, the situation was reversed. She not only let the door slip shut in my face, but when I made my way through and entered the elevator, she “remembered” her mail and hastily exited — as if the previous day’s actions made me some kind of unwanted suitor.
The saving grace here is that not every woman has embraced her equal opportunity to be a cad. Most females under the age of 40 won’t mind a chivalrous gesture, and any age bracket above that will be pleasantly thankful.
There may have been a cultural componenent also…in her mind; Progessive European meets mindless but polite Texan Cowboy who shoots things up on weekends.
In Germany, opening doors for a women is sexist. This is widespread, since the 1970′s.
However, as somebody else said above, when in Rome…
I am a 42 y.o. woman and I hold doors open for everyone. It is just being polite. I have 2 boys and 2 girls and my husband and I are teaching them all to open doors…and say ma’am and sir and to pick things up for others when dropped and say please and thank you. Whether we get a thank you or a scowl is not the point. Doing the right thing is.
You are dealing with women. You’re not doing the right thing no matter what you do.
Have the courage to be polite and hold the door, automatically and without thinking about it. If the odd woman laughs at you or denigrates you, that is her malfunction, not yours. Don’t let such people control you and keep you from doing the right thing.
I’m in my 50s and for the longest time I cherished the chivalrous tendencies taught to me by my father, but probably for the past 10 years they have eroded as I witnessed how the elite in this country have bashed men. Now my philosophy towards holding doors for women or helping them in any way is best summed up by Malcolm Reynolds who said “I look after me and mine, that don’t include you unless I conjure it does.”
I am a door opener/holder for others, but there was one instance that put that into question for me. Most of the time, when you open a door for someone, you are headed in a different direction and doing so is not of consequence. The day in question, we were both headed to a very long lunch line at Chipotle. The problem was I didn’t realize it was so long until I opened the door for a woman that I was clearly and considerably in front of so opening it for her was really a choice but not a necessity. Because I had done so by choice, I was stewing behind her through that long line thinking that she should have recognized that and gave me her place in line as a thank you. That, of course, didn’t happen.
One more thing, if I recall correctly, she didn’t thank me for opening the door for her or for giving up my place in line.
I was in the dating pool a couple years ago at the age of 37 in San Francisco. I found that opening doors including car doors without any fanfare was the fastest way to a woman’s…er….heart. Insouciance had a lot to do with the over all effect, I think. YMMV
I will open or hold open a door for a lady but not nesessarily a woman. The female’s behavior in question will determine which one she is.
I’m 54 and just retired in April after 37 years in the Navy. In addition to being raised right, I got a fair amount of etiquette training in the Navy.
An wise old Master Chief called ‘em “Small Boat Rules.” Men go on small boats and elevators first, get off last. That’s so they can help the ladies off and on the boats; elevators to check the integrity of the cables and hold the doors open for the ladies. Men go down escalators in front of women (to break their fall, should they), and up escalators behind them, same reason. My first Naval Officer’s Guide to also included streetcars and busses in the same category as boats.
I’m 54, retired and a widower. I used to consider these personal courtesies to be instructive to a younger generation, but all that is lost on them. Now I just consider it a small reminder of the gentleman and ladies I knew, and that is enough.
Thank you for your service to our country.
I recall during a busy Christmas season, a few years back — I was in my mid 20s or so — and walking out of a Nordstrom there was this lady burdened with packages. Five or six bags, plus her purse. I made a couple of quick steps to get ahead of her to help her with the door. And she sneered at me! “I’m fully capable of getting the door myself.” “Just trying to help.” “I don’t need help.” Okay. But then she moved to keep going through. I let the door drop swing back closed. I should have been more chivalrous about it, I guess, but I still relish the look on that woman’s face. She thought he could have it both ways. Enjoy the advantage of an open door, but still be rude about it. No.
Wow, 84 comments and growing … Dr Helen gets us all going.
I was going to say that I hold the door for everyone. I’m temporarily in Ohio and in Ohio there is a state-wide culture that promotes holding the door … for everyone. It’s shocking when you encounter it, especially when you come from the Peoples’ Republic of Austin, Texas.
But what happens when you are one of the “hold the door for everyone” crowd and some young, arrogant female laughs in your face, treating you to scorn?
Hmmm.
At some point you learn not to care about the scorn of young, arrogant females. They’ve got their own problems, and they are much more insecure and emotionally fragile than they’d like to admit.
First week of College, I was at Wake Forest University, A Southern School that attracts a lot of people from up North.
I was going to the Dining Hall, with a number of people from my hall – All of them except for me were From NY or NJ.
As we went in, I held the door open for some people coming behind us. They said “Thank You”, and I said “You’re welcome”
My Hall-mates asked me “So, who was that” and I told them that I didn’t know them. They asked me “Well, why did you hold the door for them”. Their assumption was that you would only do a favor like that to someone you knew.
I told them I did it, because my mama would beat my ass if she caught me NOT holding the door open for someone.
I am a man who recently injured a knee. For a while I have to walk with a bulky knee brace and a cane. Almost 100% of the people who hold open doors for me or assist me in other small ways are men.
I can’t say how many times I’ve been hobbling along and some woman will just let a heavy door slam in my face as she goes through first. Same for giving up a seat.
It’s been a real eye-opener.
It definately depends on where you are. On the East Coast I’ve been berated several times by the shrill harpy types. Now that I’m in the midwest I get plenty of thank you’s. I was recently offered half of a prime beef wrap on an air flight from Atlanta to Kansas City after offering to place a lady’s carry on baggage in the overhead compartment. I wish I had a resume handy, turns out she was a senior level executive. NOTE TO SELF: Always have a resume handy when traveling.
I was taught as a youngster to open doors for women, and I’m not about to stop now (I’m 56). It’s my hope that my daughter learned to let men open doors for her as I do it for my wife as well.
Apparently, common courtesy isn’t common any longer.
Hold the door open for a woman. It’s a quick test to see if she’s a raging feminist. After that, behave as appropriate.
Like many others, I would get smacked by mom if I did not hold a door open for a woman. Here in TX, most folks hold the door for others. It’s nice.
Any response to a spiteful woman would stop at I held the door because I am a gentleman.
I think Texas has the nicest folks in the world, right up until they turn the key to the ignition.
TXL
Why are people still conflicted over this? This should be an issue of courtesy, which is extended regardless of gender. If a woman is offended, its because of our sexual harrassment laws and culture has made female exceptionalism unacceptable. Thus, I don’t open doors for women. I open doors for myself and anyone who happens to be there at the moment. If a women is there, I open the door for MYSELF and then let her pass depending on how close she is. Otherwise, I’ll step through first and let her hold the door for herself. Usually, I’ll just walk on through and let the door close on her especially since she is a stranger or just an acquaintance.
And I’m not a gentleman. I’m a man who deserves respect like anyone else. I do things to gain respect. If a man hold the door and a women rejects that gesture and shows disrespect, my goal hasn’t be reach so why is this gesture or custom still expected? I don’t get the conflict. You do as expected.
It’s probably way too late in the lifecycle of Western civilization to fuss about the refinements and details, but have you noticed how few men or women know that a gentleman should precede a lady through a revolving door? Yeah, I know, learn to walk before you run, too old for this nonsense, etc., but one must have standards regardless of those that prevail. Or as they guy eating eel at the Japanese restaurant exclaimed, “O tempura! O morays!”
Some women want guys to act one way, some want guys to act in another. But in the end, if you are good looking and/or have lots of money, that’s all that most single women will care about.
Some women (and men) appreciate having the door held for them. Others don’t like it at all. I don’t know any way to make a rule that pleases everyone, which is what your correspondent seems to want.
Perhaps the real problem is that the young lady laughed at the correspondent and made him feel uncomfortable. That’s a risk everyone takes who goes out in public. I’d suggest living life by his polite standards and not worrying so much.
In addition, the correspondent may fear the intern will use her good relationship with the CEO to harm his career. I hope that fear is groundless but I understand his concern, especially given how hard it might be to find another job at his age. However, if his employer lets a summer intern’s incident change how she (the employer) views him as an employee, his job was already in jeopardy.
Of course I still open doors for ladies. My momma would kick my ass if I didn’t when she heard about it. (Not “if”, “when”. Doesn’t matter that this metro area has a quarter of the state’s population, it’s still the South. She’d hear about it!) In college I was notorious for opening doors for ladies. When walking with a group, I’d be near the back of the crowd (The view was better there…) but somehow managed to be at the front of the group when we would come to a door that needed opening.
I hold the door for women and men because it is polite. Also, if I need to shoot them, or there is an ambush in the room, I’m one step ahead on the OODA loop. (Be polite to everyone, have a plan to kill everyone in the room.) It works for the marines, it works for me!
A smile and a sarcastic “thank you” from the gentleman above would have gotten the point across to the ungrateful lady.
It’s straightforward. Hold the door for her. If she doesn’t respond positively, then she’s simply not the sort of lady that gentlemen should pursue. Problem solved.
Opening/holding doors for other people (regardless of gender) is an act of courtesy and sometimes efficiency. It’s not a big deal. It’s similar to saying “Hello”, and carries about that much weight. I open/hold doors for everyone as the occasion arises. I’ve noticed that nearly everyone else does also. Maybe it’s a regional thing (Fort Worth/Waco)?
As a 60 y.o. woman, I’ve had doors opened for me all my life. I always look the person in the eye, and say thank-you. However, if I am the first one to the door, I open it for the person right behind me, which is occasionally awkward for them, but not for me. And #26 Sean has it exactly rightrightright.
Left unsaid so far is that entrances now often have automatic doors, two sets of doors you must pass through, or both. This makes holding a door much less practical.
That said, I’ll generally hold a door whenever someone’s fairly close behind me. (And expect them to hold the second door for me.)
I do have an entertaining story about one of those irate feminists. I was at college back in the early ’90s. One of the buildings I had a class in was quite old, and had doors that were solid oak, 8 feet tall, about three inches thick, and necessarily on very strong springs. I was running late to class, but held the door for a girl behind me, anyway. She proceeded to tear into me nine ways from Sunday. She also had the poor judgement to do so while still standing in the doorway. I let go of the door. She weighed maybe 100lbs soaking wet. It was no contest. Last I saw her, she was somersaulting down the steps. It’s a fond memory.
Not about holding a door, but similar: My wife and I went to PF Changs for dinner a couple of weeks ago. We always share the entrees, so we discuss our choices. After the decision was made, my wife told me to order for her. When the waitress arrived, I started off saying, “My wife would like …..” That was as far as I got. The waitress quit writing, cocked one hip and put her hand on it and stared at me like I had three heads. I looked up at her and said, “I have my wife’s permission to order for her.” Whereupon, she said ok and took the order. That was the first and only time that we have gotten that reaction. I assume ordering for your spouse/girl friend is no longer sociably acceptable.
If I reach a door and someone is obviously behind me, then I open the door for them. This is not something I was taught to do while growing up. Rather, both my brothers returned from the military with the habit, and I found it impressive. In fact, it impressed me so much that I began doing it as well, despite the fact I’m a young woman living on the East Coast. If it makes me feel good to be cared for and shown thoughtfulness, I assume it makes others feel the same, regardless of gender. And why would I not want to spread good feelings?
People who respond to thoughtfulness and kindness with anger probably have larger internal problems they’re tackling.
I will absolutely not open a door or display any kind of courtesy to a woman because she is a woman. Professional courtesy is all she gets. Over my career as a Marine officer I have held doors open/assisted enlisted Marines whether male or female. I will hold doors open for the infirm/or elderly,especially if they are of my parents (WWII) generation, where both sexes understood the concept of gentleman and lady. I have taught my son the same. I have also taught him to not open doors or otherwise show any kind of defernce to a female. My wife asked me why I did this and told her that our son should not put himself at a disadvantage to his competitors, which is what today’s generation of women are. Besides, why do we get all thes “should a man open a door for a woman” questions? How about a few “shouldn’t a woman act like a lady for a man” questions? We all know why; nobody knows how a female is supposed to act like a lady in today’s world. I offer that there is no such thing.
Men should open doors for women and girls.
Men should open doors for boys and (significantly) older men.
Unencumbered persons should open doors for persons carrying an armload of stuff who can’t open the door for themselves.
Every person who has a door opened for them should say “thank you.”
Don’t worry about the injustice of nekulturny brats like that young woman. There is justice in being the one who is right, and one can pity the person who is so wrong, especially if they’re too dim to be embarrassed about their own no-class vacuity.
Besides which, every person who shows that kind of contempt for the politeness and thoughtfulness of another is probably going to hell anyway. Perhaps it’s that special hell reserved for child molesters and people who talk a the theater; I’m not sure. But I mention it because our sense of justice need not be outraged when our kindness is abused in this fashion: There may not always be terrestrial justice, but there is justice.
Corrections to my previous:
When I said that “Men should open doors for boys” I of course meant very young boys. A ten year old is approaching young manhood and a thirteen year old has hit it. Young men of that age ought to start holding doors for others like the other men do.
Also “a the theater” was supposed to be “at the theater.” Mea culpa, mea maxima culpa, Homer nods, all that.
Several years ago I made a new commitment to opening doors for females, even though I had done so before.
There was a show on TV about the experiences of a Jewish woman in a WWII Nazi concentration camp. One day they heard that the Americans had come. Since she spoke English she went to meet them.
She found an American soldier and told him there were a number of women who needed medical help right away. He asked her to take him to “the other ladies.” She was somewhat shocked to hear the term “ladies” since it was one she had not heard for some time. But she took him to the barracks.
When they got there he opened the door and held it for her, She had to stop and stare. Here was a man, in uniform, with a gun, and he was not threatening to kill her but instead was holding a door for her.
She said, “At that moment I knew that civilization had returned.”
So now when I hold a door for a “lady,” whether she likes it or not, I stand with that soldier now. I stand beside the men who liberated Europe. I stand with civilization. Fascists don’t scare us, no matter what their sex.
And I have yet to find a lady who does not appreciate the act of kindness and respect, either.
A gentleman does the correct thing by default. He sets an example of calm assurance. He meets casual rudeness with casual civility.
I regret I cannot honestly claim to be a gentleman, but even I would not let one rude woman, or a hundred, dissuade me from my practice of holding doors, especially for women.
And it is practice, absolutely. Doing such things helps me to train myself to be who I want to be.
When I was a graduate student at Berkeley, I opened a door for a young woman. She stopped and declared: “Who the hell do you think you are, Little Lord Fauntleroy?” I thought about it, and continue to open doors for everyone. I do it because my Father did it, and it’s the right thing to do. And if it irritates proto-harridans like that young lady, then so much the better, it’s serving a dual purpose.
I always open doors for women. A woman in plain view is safer than a woman behind your back.
LOL!
I grew up in San Antonio. I always open/hold doors for people regardless of gender. I’ll speed up to get there first if someone is encumbered. I’ve gotten a few frosty glares and snide sneers from, usually younger, females. No matter.
I now live in a high rise with a good percentage of Arab residents. I notice they rarely hold/open doors for other people. When I do it for them, they rarely acknowledge it. It is annoying when they let the elevator close in your face since it can be a 2-5 minute wait for the next one. Cultural thing, I guess.
To your point about interactions. I find in both business and social settings, my interaction with females is greatly altered. As a manager and supervisor, I never have a closed door meeting with a female without another person present. I get someone from HR if the purpose is something sensitive like a performance review. I’m married and my wife is frequently away, as am I. Unless I’m with friends I’ve known for a while, I try to stick to groups of people and avoid talking with one woman for extended periods. Office/social rumor and innuendo has crippled many a man.
Depending on the distance behind they are, I generally hold doors for anyone of any race, gender, ability etc. It is just common courtesy not to let the door slam in their face.
I truly appreciate when someone holds the door when I am trying to get through with a stroller and kids hanging off of me. I am perfectly capable and do get through on my own most of the time but my thanks are sincere when someone lends a hand. When my husband is with me, it usually depends who is carrying which kids, who will hold the door for the other. We kind of just have an unspoken language.
On a related note, for all that there exist women who complain about doors being held open, I literally can not remember the last time I was on an elevator, containing at least one female, where said female did not move directly to exit when the door opened, regardless of how far back in the elevator crowd she happened to be.
I see them as the same issue—I will hold a door open for a woman, and I will let a woman exit the elevator first. But any woman who assumes a right to exit first, yet is critical of the act of opening a door, is, without a doubt, a complete hypocrite.
I got chided once by a young woman for holding the door for her. I led her back outside and closed the door and locked it. The shocked look was worth the temporary discomfort to my sense of propriety.
And a drink for you too, sir!
I am a woman and I always hold the door for anyone (male or female). Most people will not even say thanks but I continue to hold the door anyway. It’s instinctive for me and I don’t really need affirmation or acknowledgement from them (though it would be nice) to simply be kind and courteous. It comes natural to me and so I do it.
I get the door held for me mostly by older people (I am in m 40′s), and I get it slammed on me by people of all ages. I don’t think people are kind anymore. I never thought it had anything to do with men feeling slighted by women. I’m pretty much old school and agree that men (especially white men) are marginalized and demonized in our society and I hate that since I do have a son (as well as daughters). I don’t know what the answer is. I think it’s important to lead by example and so that is what I do.
Solution: If you get to the door first, hold it open for whomever is behind you, be they male or female. It’s a simple gesture of civility, good for one’s soul. If the person to whom you’ve granted consideration takes it for an insult, pity them.
I save more awkward maneuvers (e.g., pushing the door open but remaining inside to let the other pass through first) as gestures of affection for people with whom I’m close. I can see how a stranger would be uncomfortable with such attention. I think of it this way: if the lesser gesture is like offering the chips you didn’t eat, the greater one is like offering your entire lunch. The difference is that one involves a sacrifice while the other does not. I think anyone but a sociopath would at least sense the debt implicit in and conveyed by the gesture.
I’m reminded of the polite practice of presenting a favor with the request that it be accepted. It says, “You are special to me. Please return the feeling by accepting it.”
So far a lot of comments yet nobody has picked up on the possible cultural differences implicit in the story. The intern was from Germany.
One point: people who are not from North America are often surprised about the lengths to which Americans will go to maintain a polite “face” in public settings. (The common custom of restaurant tipping is also an unusual experience for many.) So she may have little or no previous experience with American-style public courtesy, and imagined there must be some sort of awkward motive at play.
Second point: I don’t know what German customs actually are on door-holding, but if German queuing behavior is any indication…
I’ve made many trips to Germany, and my observations are:
- big cosmopolitan cities like Berlin are *very* socially liberal, and social behaviour trends toward what we think of as Boston or NYC, though there are distinct cultural quirks:
- Southern Germany, especially Bavaria, trends towards more cheerful and ‘nice’ towards polite strangers, though still more formal than America
- Germans are *not* as comfortable or forthcoming about discussing personal private matters, and Americans proclivity to do so often confuses them.
- If you did not already realize it, German culture makes a *huge* distinction between family and ‘accepted’ (there is actually a kind of ritual for this) close friends. German has a special second person pronoun (English ‘you) ‘du’ that is only used when addressing children, family, or special close friends.
Everyone else is addressed using ‘Sie,’ the formal second person pronoun for either an individual or a group.
Best Regards,
I’m a Houstonian whose mother taught me to open doors for ladies, enter and exit elevators last, etc. In Houston, the vast majority of men follow these customs, native or not.
At one time, I worked in downtown Houston for a large, NY based bank. You could always pick out the visitors or recent transfers, because they would jump on the elevator as soon as the doors opened. It was a special treat to see the shocked look on their faces when they finally noticed the other men waiting patiently for all the women to enter the elevator first.
I think this underscores the difference between ‘ladies’ and ‘women’.
I always hold the door open for women, men, the infirmed, anyone. It’s how my Grandparents taught me to behave in public. After 50 years its a habit that I have never found a compelling enough reason to change.
However, early in my career I approached an inward opening door at the same time a young lady (giving her the benefit of the doubt) about my age. I knew that this door was heavy and the pneumatic closer on it was broken. So I stepped up quickly pushed the door open walking through it and then turned out of the way holding the door for the young lady to walk through behind me. She stopped in the doorway, crossed her arms and snapped at me “I can open my own doors.” I shrugged and let go of the door. The door swung closed quickly hitting her crossed arms hard enough that it knocked her back out of the door way. I looked through the glass at her, as she stood there with a shocked look on her face. Then I grabbed the doorhandle and pulled the door open for her. She glared at me for a moment, then stepped through the door, stopped next to me, tried to wipe the embarrased expression off her face and gave me a quiet “thank you” before walking away.
We ended up working in the same building for several years. Never became anything more than casual aquaintences. But everytime we arrived at a doorway at nearly the same time whoever got there first would hold the door, the other one would smile and say thank you as they walked through it.
Another time I was approaching the front door of a sandwich shop I was about two steps ahead of two ladies (older than me) so I pulled the door open and allowed them to walk through ahead of me. The first one smiled and said thank you, the second one grinned at me and said “You are going to regret this.”
We stepped upto the counter, and the second lady pulled out a list and started to order 17 sandwiches. The first lady stopped her and said “Why don’t we let him go first?” The other lady glanced over her shoulder at me and said “Nah, let this be a lesson that chauvanism can cost you.”
So I calmly waited while their order was filled then ordered my one sandwich. While the two women were deciding how to carry their boxes of sandwiches, chips and sodas – I pulled out my wallet to pay for my sandwich – the manager who was manning the cash register told me, loud enough for them to hear – “This one’s on the house, as a lesson that politeness pays more than chauvanism costs.” I thanked him, picked up my sandwich and headed to the door. The ladies with thier arms full of boxes were right behind me. I grabbed the door, pulled it open and stepped aside to let them walk through the door. The first one smiled politely, said thank you and walked through the door, the other one stopped right in front of me and said “You just don’t get it, do you?” I said “No I get it just fine, you however…” then I walked through the door and let it swing closed in front of her. Then I looked at her companion who was standing there with a box of sandwiches in her arms, trying really hard not to laugh and asked her “Would you like help getting those to your car?” She nodded, handed me the box and led me over to their car, where she opened the back door, I put the box inside, she said thank you, I said you’re welcome, and walked away. The other lady was still standing inside the shop with her arms full staring incredulously through the windows at us.
I live in Austin and currently attend UT, and I hold doors for any women on campus every opportunity I get (which is quite often), and my overall experience is that I get smiles and a “thank you” in return for my efforts. On the occasions we happen to be going through a set of double doors, the woman will often hold the second door for me in return.
I don’t know if the fact that I’m also a young guy makes a difference, but my experience is overwhelmingly positive.
“Feminism” as it has evolved, is rapidly consuming both the feminine and masculine aspects of our society and excreting an androgynous mutation of the human animal having the worst qualities of both the male and female.
Combined with our “Government for the Eternally Aggrieved”, our society is collapsing.. slowly, but certainly.
If you disagree, please show evidence that our society, our nation, our culture is growing stronger as used to be the hallmark of America.
A good comeback to an enraged feminist’s scolding would be: “I’m not him”. When she asks who “him” is, you can reply “…the guy who hurt you”.
I always appreciate a door held open.
Chivalry is not dead, just dying.
In their quest for equality, feminists have separated us from the pleasure of being women.
In our quest for power, we have given up too much.
You just keep holding those doors, and don’t get discouraged by those bitches that don’t appreciate it.
I open or hold a door for a woman not because I wish to treat her like a “lady”, but rather because I am a gentleman.
It’s only fair, since women are the ultimate doorkeepers.
“I open doors for people – If you want to self-select out, that’s fine.”
Hi Helen- keep up the good work. I think you are onto something that needs saying.
Yes, as a man, I hold doors for women and the elderly or infirm,
and I hold it for other men, if they would be hit by it as it closes-
simple courtesy.
I teach my son and daughter to do the same, because how we all gotta help one another get along, and what goes around comes around, if we dont.
I push in a chair for my mom. I push in a chair for my beau. As to the latter, the first time it occurs she is bewildered often cranking around to look at me quizzically. What I have found is that she does not know the process—sit, lift and reposition distance, sit again. Obviously the chair scoot comes in the middle. Who is responsible for this ignorance of courtesy? Her dad, for not showing her. Her mom, for not showing her. Prior boyfriends, for not doing it. Herself.
Not too surprised to get ‘pay it forward’ grief from other guys at the table whose gals condemn their lack of manners. Tough. When something is right, it’s right all the way around.
On an interesting note, I was asked once ‘not’ to do that upon first taking a date to a restaurant. I calmly said “have anything you like” while I turned, left the restaurant, and drove home.
Um. I’m in Austin. Men open doors. I say thank you. That’s normal.
The check-out clerk at the grocery store asks if I need help with the groceries. When I have kids with me, yes, I do. And I say thank you.
I also call people Sir and Ma’am. I’ve been here (cough) (cough) decades. And nobody, not once, has ever said ” Don’t say that.” My kids are being taught to say please and thank you to waiters, waittresses, librarians, teachers, coaches, workers at fast food joints. Why not? They are polite to my kids, too.
So, that awful little German girl has atrocious manners. Her mother did not raise her right. There are reasons well-raised southern girls are beloved near world-wide. One married Bill Gates, and he seems happy. German girls have, what, among the lowest marriage and childbearing rates in the world. They can’t function in society, any society, even a society of two or three. They’ll be gone by the time your grandson will be opening the door for a polite young lady who will smile at him, and then they’ll talk, and begin the courtship that will provide great-grandchildren that will visit your gravestone to see that it’s in good shape and there are flowers on it.
Yeah, I’ve lived in Austin for nearly 20 years and its definitely a place where men hold doors for women and women like it. I’ve NEVER had ANY experience otherwise.
“One married Bill Gates, and he seems happy.”
—–
Frankly, for 1/2 of 60 billion dollars, he better be. I know of no other “opportunity” like that. And there’s not even any housewife bullshit about having to “dust” for the 30 billion. She has people dust for her.
Truly, I know of no other opportunity – aside from bagging a rich man – where you can get so much money for so little. That opportunity is frankly not open to men.
I happily open doors for women, but I’ll do the same for men. This is a matter of being polite and believing that we all get along better when we all pay attention to the small kindnesses and show some awareness of the existence of people around us. I’m 42, neither old and definitely not young, but I’ve not run into people accusing me of sexism or anything of the type.
What I have run into– so often that it almost makes me want to stop– is a large majority of people who simply act as if I don’t exist while they rush through the door. Not a smile, not a nod, not a word of polite thanks. That comes from men, women, boys, girls, young, and old. It is disheartening far beyond the confines of this smaller conversation.
Why I haven’t stopped is that so enough people brighten just enough– favoring me with a smile or a thanks or at least a nod– that it still seems worth the small effort. But just barely.
Well, I haven’t gone through every single reply, but here’s my .02
I agree with he person who said the women in the story probably thought he was hitting on her. In a workplace environment with a highly placed woman that can certainly be the impression, or at least one of butt-kissing. Also, if this person was from Germany, maybe they don’t hold doors there any longer?
Personally I hold doors for everyone, age, gender, circumstance are irrelevant. OTOH, if my wife gets to the door first, she opens it. It’s really just about common courtesy, not chivalry.
What is the story with women trying to reciprocate when I open the car door for them on dates? I’ve noticed this with a few women that I’ve taken out over the years. I open the door for them and then they try to open my door for me from inside as I walk around the car. I’m not sure what to make of this behavior but I am usually mildly insulted. I feel like it’s a rejection of my courtesy. Am I misintepreting it?
Actually, that is the “Door Test”, from the movie, “A Bronx Tale”. The idea is that if she unlocks the driver’s side door for you after you open the passenger door for her, she is thinking about you and is not some selfish b**ch.
My boys have been taught to be polite to people, female, elderly, young, old, male… That is all crap, either you have manners or you do not. The female in question will hopefully grow in maturity as she does in years. I say please & thank you, and hold doors for everyone if I arrive first.
Also worth mentioning some of you men here are seriously angry. Are your moms worthy of such vitriol? Not all women are sexually manipulative and that implication is as offensive as it would be for me to say because some men chase teen girls that all males are closeted pedophiles. It is untrue and unfair. Try to let it go because you are likely attracting what you despise. Seek guidance.
I was raised to open doors, but that was a long time ago in a galaxy far away. I still do it when it’s unquestionably the right thing to do–elderly, people with small kids, the disabled, etc. No problem.
As for the average, unencumbered American female–I have to think a second about what I’m willing to do. “Ladies” were never thick on the ground in Wyoming, and some of the worst venom I’ve ever heard came out of the mouths of females. If it has multiple tattoos, nose rings, and/or incandescently dyed hair and just got out of a beater truck with a bumper sticker saying “Cowgirls Kick Ass”, it’s probably trouble.
You want to get treated like a lady, look and act like one.
Do what you need to do. Do what’s right. Be a gentleman. And stop whining. Who cares what a snot-nosed youngster does. Especially a Euro-Brat. You are a 58 year-old man for God’s sake. Laugh this kind of thing off. BTW, my observations on this phenomenon is that younger women like gentlemanly conduct. Their moms, not quite so much.
The whole thing is a scam. Men started hold doors for women when they realized that it allowed them to get an uninterupted view of their posterior. In order to avoid being found out we just hold the door for all women. It throws them off the scent!
I love when a man holds the door for me. Always have. I am appalled at the lack of manners in some people. Whether it’s letting a door fly in someone’s face, mocking someone, or being outright rude when someone else displays manners. Kudos to all you men who are gentlemen. That being said, I will hold doors for others – male or female. I just feel it is the polite thing to do. I don’t care if someone makes a rude comment. I do what is polite and I try to treat others the way I would like to be treated – with respect. Our society could sure use more displays of good manners. I taught my children to be polite and courteous including answering an adult with sir or maam. We received numerous compliments over the years on how polite our children were including when they would answer the phone. It’s my personal belief that everyone should be treated with respect. Who knows? Eventually it just might rub off on them.
I am in my 60′s and my mother taught me to always open the door for women. Most say thank you but a couple of young hot(in their minds) women have made reference that they had not interest in an old man. I told them that I was married and did not patronize prostitutes. Then I just walked away snikering to myself. There are a lot of gentlemen still out there and the majority of women appreciate that.
Holding to a form dating back to splashing horse-drawn carriages, I still prefer to walk on the outside (street-side) of the sidewalk, which places the lady between me and the buildings and less likely to get spattered, should that occur. While I do not call attention to it, once in a while a companion notices. If she is under 110, as she nearly always is, and she asks why I remain on her left side, I usually say it’s a holdover from the splash days . Most of the time companions either don’t notice or if they do, don’t mention it.
The same debate is going here in Australia following a snooty article from an unemployed and unemployable journalism student relating her experiences as a newspaper intern http://blogs.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/timblair/index.php/dailytelegraph/comments/it_was_just_so_heteronormative/#commentsmore
Like my namesake #26 I think opening doors for women is not aimed at them – it is aimed at society. Boys need to be civilized (most girls are born that way) and traditions like this are one the things society employs to achieve that. It has nothing to do with women in particular – and will have unintended consequences if eliminated. If feminists think (a stretch) men are pigs now…they haven’t seen anything yet(poor sad saps that they are).
Open doors for those who appear female, infirm, laden, elderly, busy, … sometimes get thank yous, more often get quiet smiles, rarely a speech objecting to my old-fashioned manners, to which I reply “Yes, Ma’am”, which usually really sets them off, and I walk away.
Some collage reunion, 30th? … “I’ve always remembered you. You’d open the door for me, and I’d feel like I’d just become a princess.” “Yes, and then we’d see you open the door for [the young lady who became my wife] and we knew she was a goddess!” They were, and she is.
Good manners are the oil that keeps society running smoothly.
I was raised to be polite and always open doors for women.
When I arrived at university and the “big city” I was promptly screamed at for being a chauvinist pig and someone who assumed women were weak. OK .. . that was once. Then I was screamed at again for the same offence. That was twice. Then I was elbowed in the gut and yelled at and that was it – it’s everyone for themselves. No door will ever be opened for you unless you are extremely feeble, aged or infirm in any way – male or female. Everyone else – no way ever!!
Sorry, I digress from the majority view here. I was brought up to respect women as a matter of course. Anger is something that will plague the person who spews it, not the recipient.
Chivalry, courtesy, and manners are the “lubricants of society.” If some don’t approve, well then that’s their call. I for one shall not lower myself to their level by giving back as I have been given in acrimonious behavior. If they are that childish and presumptuous in their attitude, sooner or later it is going to catch up with them anyhow.
Often I do. I’m not sure I have a clear idea for when and why, though I do analyze the situation more deliberately in an office building.
Absolutely, one can get chastised for each alternative.
In an elevator one time, I listened to a woman complain to two guys from her office how the boss had insisted she purchase cupcakes to bring to the office, just because she was a woman. Under the circumstances, and because I was closest to the opening door, I thought I should step out first. She rather deliberately cut me off, making certain she’d be first. Whichever choice you make, you’re often regarded as boorish.
Good manners reflect what we think of ourselves not what others think of us.
Overall, I think, I treat women with a bit more respect than I do men. I however avoid women as much as I can; it’s just impossible to judge how women, especially younger women (I am 60 years old), will react to anything these days. As a white male I avoid any female under the age of 18. Women who are (apparently) my age and older are treated as ladies and I of course hold/open doors for the women of of my family and those of close acquaintance.
Paranoid? Maybe, but I’ve had it hammered into my head over the last several decades that I am to treat women the same as I do men. Okay, fine, so be it.
When my son was 2, he began holding doors for women (although he sometimes needed help getting the door open!). He got so much positive feedback from (especially older) women that it quickly became a habit for him. As he got older, I warned him that there would be females who would be offended by his courtesy, but that was okay–he just didn’t need to marry a woman like that. Still later, he asked me about girls who continued to date guys who treated them badly. I told him he didn’t need to marry a woman like that either–which he immediately contrasted with my earlier warning. It gave us a good opportunity to discuss choosing a mate who would genuinely appreciate his courtesies AND refuse to allow herself to be treated like a doormat–a woman who was strong enough to be a true partner but not so independent she didn’t know how to work as a part of a team.
Years ago I grew tired of the office scene and all the politics, undermining and other BS that seems to come with working at a large corporation. I was in line for a cushy directorship but I felt hollow and unfulfilled. I decided to take an offer from a friend that could pull some strings and get me in as a newspaper driver for the Chicago Sun Times. Being a former Marine and no stranger to heavy labor it was an easy transition and a welcome change of environment. It was the kind of obscenely overpaid union job one would have to know somebody to get.
Being of low seniority I filled in for other drivers that took their vacation. Every 2 weeks I would work a different part of the city and I loved it! Several times I worked the downtown (Loop) area. One morning while working a Loop route I was making a delivery to a large Art Deco building on LaSalle St. Most of the larger buildings downtown have convenience stores located the lobby area as this did and that’s who was getting the news papers. Walking from my truck to the entrance I had at least 70 to 80 lbs of newspapers on my shoulder. As I neared the main doors I could hear from behind the telltale quick paced clomping of a dress shoe clad female. The main entrance had large brass clad doors that was common on a 1920-30s era building. I had already delivered to this building several times and knew the door required some muscle to open. I shifted my balance and with my free arm I opened the door and stepped aside to let what I thought was a lady in first. As I turned to make eye contact and offer a polite smile the 20 something sneering little girl began to berate me with “I can open my own” that’s as far she got. With years of office experience under my belt I instantly knew where this was going. Without hesitation I let go of the heavy and quickly self closing door and she walked right into it. I then said “you got it sweets it’s all yours!” in a way that only a Teamster newspaper driver with a heavily exaggerated Chicago accent could. She was dumbfounded and angry and gave me that I’m going straight to Human Resources look. After a few seconds of the how dare you glare I went from a gentleman that treats a lady with respect to a man dealing with another man that is an A hole. I aggressively inquired “Well you f*****g going in or what!?!” I gave her what she demanded, equality. I admit my reaction was over the top. But after experiencing the same scenario several times in a white collar environment where any response from me would have been breathlessly reported to HR. I saw it it happen to an older, late 50s, militantly polite engineer that was just unable to adjust to the current era. The poor guy came out of HR with tears in his eyes after his mandatory counseling.
When you are blue collar and not an employee of the organization to which you are visiting you have more latitude when formulating reaction to such ridiculousness. Combine that with being a Teamster in the City of Chicago you’re basically immune from any retribution. Trust me, had they called my supervisor to complain his response would have made Andrew Dice Clay like a counselor at an women’s shelter. I didn’t take advantage of my immunity often. You had to earn it. I would be lying if I said it didn’t feel great when I did though. Releasing years of built up frustrations relative to the subject of this article was quite therapeutic. In my previous white collar job any statement or opinion that was counter to that of any embittered female, even presented as a friendly or academic debate, could be grounds for a write up or termination. It all depended on her perceptions and emotions. They held all the cards and some abused that power. So as a self made rule my conversations with my female colleagues that I didn’t know very very very well would be short, business related only and very dry and mechanical in Nature. I was an expert at that being a Former Marine.
The thing that perplexes me most regarding my encounter on LaSalle St. as well as similar instances is that while they’re castigating you for your Neolithic behavior they are accepting the offending courtesy by walking through the door without hesitation. It’s like handing a stranger a $20.00 bill and they’re eviscerating you while taking it.
I’ve been back in the white collar world for a few years now but in an all male smaller office. Not that that’s what I was looking for though the atmosphere is relaxed, productive, and drama free. And you know what; we always hold the door open for each other.
“I had plenty to do and she is the darling of the CEO who is a woman, so I just got some coffee, went to my desk, and started my work.”
Guy should find a different job. Working at places like that is a drag.
Sean: “Boys need to be civilized (most girls are born that way) …”
Man-shaming. Cut it out.
Today, I only hold doors for old women – think 80. I learned long ago when in college when I held the door for this tiny little girl – it was in a very windy area and I doubt she could have opened the door – but for my trouble I got screamed at by her. I let it go and it smacked her in the head and opened her forehead, as I walked off. (It was satisfying to see that she couldn’t ‘do it herself’ contrary to her thoughts.) That was the last time I ever held the door for a woman just to be “nice”.
Today, I’m pushing 50, and the only women I hold the door for, are those much older than me, or that I’m having sex with. They – the women I’m enjoying – enjoy the attention, and the fact that I get the car-door, and all of the things fossils like me were taught to do. But today, I only do it after I’ve been paid up front, in the only currency that I value when it comes to women.
That may be sad, but such is life. Women can look in a mirror if they want to blame someone… Of course, I couldn’t care less – it has actually made my life a lot freer, since I can be truly uncaring since there are fewer and fewer women worth my caring about…
I had an experience back in the 1980′s with a feminist. It’s always stayed with me. A group of perhaps 10 or 15 people were at a courthouse in a room with only a few chairs; we were waiting to go into court. I had one of the chairs. Some women were standing, including one right in front of me. I knew I was probably going to get in trouble, but I got up and said to the girl in front of me “I just can’t sit here while you have to stand up.” She kind of sneered at me and refused to take the chair. I didn’t sit back down, and no one else in the room took the chair. We all stood there until called into the courtroom. I’ve always remembered that episode; it’s an example of why feminists stir hatred…from both men *and* women.
Both my sons are taught respect. For everyone. What’s lacking is courtesy towards everyone. One of the reasons we no longer watch the Comedy Channel in this house. The meaner the joke… the more disrespectful the humor…the bigger the laughs. Apparently being crude, rude and having a bad attitude is what passes for respect today. Perhaps if I taught my sons to set the girl up and let the door hit her in the face, then call her a bitch, they would become more popular? I know the video would go viral…Because by today’s standards it would seem more in tune.
It is funny this topic came up.
I work in an environment that has 500lb security doors everywhere in the building. They are “balanced” with heavy duty hydraulic closers, but still require effort to open.They also require a PIN and card swipe to access if closed. Becuase of this, I find myself holding doors for people often, and they are usually grateful. A quick “Thanks!” is usually what I hear. I have never had a feminist chastize me for holding a door (and I work around many entitled progressive types)but I did have a woman yell “Hold the door!” at my recently from about 15 feet away in a large entrance lobby. I did not know her, but she appeared to be an American about my age (50+), and her hands were free.
I stopped and held the door, and turned to wait, but she then stopped to chat with another person in the lobby. I waited about 10 seconds or so, but when sheactually turned her back to me to keep talking to the other person, I carried on, and the door closed.
I took several steps, and heard somebody pounding on the door. I went back and opened it, and this woman was there and immediately said “I told you to hold the door!” quite angrily. Looking at her closer, I then noticed her close cropped hair and rainbow flag earring (just one). A militant lesbian? Probably.
I told her “I thought you stopped when you turned your back. I have things to do.” I then carried on.
Thats it. No follow up or complaints to HR, just a rude woman I encountered recently. I will still continue to hold doors for others, but if I see her again, she can open her own heavy door.
I will NOT open a door for ANY woman, regardless of age or circumstance. I will for a male whom I have respect. I teach my son to do the same. I take great pleasure of arriving at a door first, and then opening it and pushing my way inside first without any regard for her. I will not perform one tiny bit of chivalry up to and including protection from violence. I have yet to ever meet what some call a “Lady” and doubt I ever will.
As one looking forward to the day when men will no longer be needed for reproduction, I certainly don’t need a man opening a door for me.
In our technologically advanced society it’s just as likely that there will come a day when, with the development of an artificial womb, women are no longer needed for reproduction.
Man, sperm. Woman, egg. The uterus gets involved only after conception occurs.
I hate chivalry because it’s one-sided.
This is the rule: EVERYBODY should open the door for EVERYBODY.
Short answer: it depends. Remember, chivalry is a sign of resect. Some women merit such respect. Others don’t.
Let me add. I’ve had occasion where I’ve held the door open for a woman and the guy she was with (or even just the guy behind her) tried to sneak through. I generally let (a won’t admit to making an effort to) the door slam in his face.
Are you joking? If not, why would you let the door slam in ANYBODY’S face? Men are just as worthy of being treated courteously as women are.
It’s just a door, folks. Ladies first, and if you find that she’s not a lady, so what?
I open doors for women. As a boy, my mother routinely asked me to do so for her & my sisters. The habit stuck with me.
Maybe I’ve just grown thick skin, but it seems women are more gracious about it than they were in the 90s.
No.
Chivalry needs to be erased and rebuilt from the ground up.
Interesting psychology in the comments. All variants of negative re-enforcement. Men should open the door or their mother would smack them, or they would have let themselves down. Even the sneaking suspicion that the woman who outwardly yells at them…inwardly would think less of them if they didn’t.
Nicely summed up by Sean in post #26. You don’t do it for her…you do it for yourself.
Chivalry by Shame. Is that what we want?
Where’s the positive re-enforcement? Of course you do it for her. Because you want to…not because you’ll think less of yourself if you don’t.
Chivalry is derived from gender roles. Previously a woman’s gender role was in the home, while the man’s was in the public sphere. A man opened the door for a woman, stood up when she entered or left the room–out of respect. A public display of respect for the important role women played in the private sphere. The public sphere is only a supporting role. The public sphere exists to earn the resources to provide for the family.
Men and woman used to have specific roles in society…and much of chivalry was to acknowledge the important private role of women given that they had very limited role’s in the public sphere.
Roles have changed, and women now demand respect on identical terms in the public sphere. A woman is now no longer more or less special than anyone else. The need to respect woman for the unique role they fulfilled is no longer required.
Back when I first started college, I held open the door for a young woman who snarled at me, “I can do that MYSELF!” and huffed in. I was completely flustered and confused and didn’t say a word. Didn’t stop me from opening doors for people. Its polite and most people appreciate it. A few years later it happened again, this time with the woman making a disgusted face and noise. I did my best courtly bow and called her “ma’am”, which REALLY annoyed her. In my last semester of law school I opened the door for a young woman who said pretty much the same thing. My response was, “Then maybe you’re capable of pulling your head out of your $#%, too.” I think the last one may be the “law school effect,” but both are effective ways of dealing with rude people. I find becoming insultingly polite works very very well.
Whatever happened to equal rights? If women want to be considered the equal of men, they shouldn’t think that they are somehow entitled to us holding doors open for them. Yet, they expect it and consider it some sort of chivalric act. Odd.
Common courtesy means holding a door for ANYONE that might need it. But holding the door open for someone because of their gender is pure bias.
Women do not deserve any special credit or aid simply because they are female. Just like the special treatment men got and women railed against for decades. And, until we demand that women do as the men do and stop with the special accommodations (like not shaving their heads when they join the military) women will always think of themselves as special and deserving creatures that men should cater too.
I wish these hyper feminist would stop ruining things for the rest of women who can appreciate a simple gesture of consideration and politeness.
Women these days want it both ways. They want equality but complain when men don’t act like gentlemen. For example: that cruise ship crashed and men were pushing their way onto the lifeboats. Its because the old ways of “women and children first” are gone. We have to ask ourselves as a society is this really what we want? The way I see it now is that we are trending towards equality. This is confusing young men like myself. We are expected to initiate contact with a woman we want to spend time with and pay for dates. That doesnt seem equal to me at all. I recently stopped holding doors (regardless of what my mother would think) or even buying a girl a drink. Living in a college town I dont dare hold the door for a woman out of fear of being yelled at. Sure it seems rude especially when Im in front but if we’re all equal now why am I always opening my own door? And how come girls never buy me drinks? Think about the last time you ever saw a young lady buy a round of drinks…? Its a two way street now. I dont have to take out a girl who is interested in me because I could find a half dozen others in one night willing to go home with me for much less. Is this a good thing for our society? I don’t think so. Will I ever get married? Probably not. Does it bother me? Yes but the fact is that its now okay for girls to go out and act like guys. And men are expected to eventually marry women like this..? Id say the problem goes beyond chivalry and manners and has to do with morals, the decline of marriage/religion and shifting gender roles.
I will hold a door open for anyone who is behind me, male or female.
If they fall within the ‘cone of action’, then it’d just be rude to let it shut in their face.
I’ve never had anyone have a whinge about it
Then again, I’m from Australia and the radical feminists aren’t as bad here.