The Gang That Could Shoot Straight — But Not Much Else
The Candidate is the kind of liberal movie Hollywood just doesn’t make anymore. It was breezy, smart, not too preachy, and it turned a critical eye on both sides. The very last line of the movie was spot on, as young Senator-elect Bill McKay — modeled very much on RFK — turns almost to the camera and asks, “What do we do now?” He’s been so focused on winning the election, he has no clue what to do next. Like the dog who finally catches the car. Biting, brilliant, honest political commentary.
Where did that Robert Redford go, is what I’d like to know.
Anyway — that movie line came to mind this morning after a quick glance at the Drudge Report.
The plan for killing Osama Bin Laden was perfectly conceived and as perfectly executed as any special forces operation since Israel’s raid on Entebbe. But the follow-through has been strange at best, sometimes bordering on incompetence.
First, there was that weird burial at sea “in accordance with Islamic tradition.” There, the White House managed to annoy most everyone. There are those like me, who thought Bin Laden’s corpse was treated with too much respect, to those in the Islamic world now inflamed because it wasn’t really done properly after all.
Then there was the president’s oddly bloodless speech Sunday night. For almost ten years we’d been trying to get the guy who murdered 3,000 Americans, attacked our military HQ, and ripped the heart out of the New York City skyline. The effort spanned two continents, four or five countries, a Caribbean Navy base, and the persistent efforts of two presidents, the American intelligence community, and the best of the best of our special forces. And yet President Obama sounded as if he were announcing a “worthwhile Canadian initiative.”
Now the Administration can’t even decide whether or not to release a photo of the body. They didn’t have a PR plan in place before the killing? It must be amateur night at the White House, because what I’m hearing sounds increasingly like karaoke. More specifically, a Last Call group chorus of “My Way,” with the participants too drunk to remember all the words.
It looks so ugly in DC right now, that it lends credence to the wacky (or so I thought) report that Obama himself couldn’t make up his mind to order the attack, forcing CIA chief Leon Panetta to make the call. Valerie Jarrett was the source of the president’s wishy-washiness? Clinton’s people were leaking like a cracked dam to prod Obama into action?
It’s enough to make you wonder just how many powers there are behind this throne.
Look at the famous Situation Room picture again.
The president’s eyes appear steely, but his posture is all wrong — huddled into his chest, seemingly filled with doubt. He looks like the smallest person in the room, and I don’t necessarily mean physically. I’m sure other pictures from that night are much more flattering, but this is the “iconic” one the White House chose to represent the president at his decisive best. Doesn’t anyone there have a clue how the president looks here, once the euphoria has faded?
The example the David Axelrod must be thinking of right now is President George H.W. Bush, who enjoyed 90% approval following the Gulf War — and then went down to electoral defeat less than two years later. People didn’t much care for Bush’s broken tax promises or his handling of the sharp Recession of 1991-’92. That example just might be keeping him up at night, back home in Chicago. Judging from the incoherent Administration efforts post-Bin Laden, no one in the White House is losing any sleep.
They ought to be.
Also read “Is the media CW already turning against Obama’s handling of the OBL raid?” at the Tatler.
Biden’s eyes R open….Doesn’t that count for something?
Heh.
So.. Valerie Jarrett is the REAL power in the WH? Well, she knows how to find govt money and built instant Chicago slums, but what else?
You may be on to something. The White House wants us to believe they micro-managed a raid with amazing foresight and stunning precision and now seem to be fumbling the after-narrative like Abbotabad and Costello.
It leads one to believe the White House had less to do with the raid rather than more. Okay, let’s admit it: Obama had nothing to do with it. He’s not exactly the General Patton type. Patton would’ve pissed on Bin Laden and had a photo of him doing it and given autographed copies to the SEALS.
It’s obvious to me that the White House had very little to do with planning the operation. Most of them were dragged kicking and screaming to get on board with the plan. If Obama gave an authoritative command to take UBL why was he called off the golf course and into the war room. He was clearly a clueless spectator in that picture. If they were that involved it would have been easy to keep their story straight. Was it a kill mission or a capture/kill mission for example?
Here is the more likely narrative. Over time this information will begin to leak out.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3562677/Fearless-four-legged-war-hero.html
I posted the wrong link in my previous comment. Here is the story about Obama’s involvement or lack there of in the planning of the operation.
http://socyberty.com/issues/white-house-insider-obama-hesitated-panetta-issued-order-to-kill-osama-bin-laden/
I am perfectly fine with Obama not involved in the planning. His only job is and should be to ask if they’re confident in the plan, what are the possible negative outcomes, have they planned for everything to go wrong. His responsibility is to say yea or nay. He takes the credit if all goes well and the responsibility if it goes horribly wrong. All we’ve seen so far is the Obama that loves to stand at the podium and take credit or blame others as the need arises.
I am not sure that the mission wasn’t expected to FAIL.
Change the parameters, add importance of “noncombatants” as non-fatalities, importance of no “collateral damage”, importance of no post-op enemy propaganda photos, no US fatalities, and on and on.
Lose a helicopter on the way in (either catastrophic maintenance failure or enemy shoot-down)
The guys who don’t quit until they are dead won anyway.
And nobody in the administration was ready for the fall-out of utter success.
Not only hadn’t they prepared for complete success, they appear to not have even considered it.
Why not???
Unless the “deck” (ROE and other NCA directives) had been so utterly stacked against success that it was literally inconceivable. (see USN response to piracy in Maersk Alabama and Quest yacht)
The FROGS on the ground deserve a lot of kudos, as do the detectives who ran Bin Ladin to ground.
I wouldn’t be so sure that any of the kudos properly fall on the administration. Some people now employed will have to leave government service before we find out Paul Harvey’s “rest of the story”
Perzactly! Even Feinstein knew about it clear back in December, she says!
Otraitorbama was sure his moslem brother had crept out from under that rock long ago. But, he hadn’t. In spite of another Jimmy Carter helicopter our incredibly brave and efficient men got in, whacked somebody, and got out.
Was it really Bin Laden? We will never know, for sure. No sane person will believe Oscambo or his appointees; all pathological liars.
But, wouldn’t it be embarrasing to Odumbo if Bin Laden made a public appearance post mortem?
“His only job is and should be to ask if they’re confident in the plan, what are the possible negative outcomes, have they planned for everything to go wrong. His responsibility is to say yea or nay.”
. . . .
It was touch and go when SEIU demanded that the Seals take a mandatory break every two hours during the operation, but H. Clinton was able to convince BO to pay overtime for the lost breaks, which led to the union withdrawing that objection.
Finally, after three months, SEIU completed its Prevailing Wage survey – made more difficult, of course, by the relative lack of local highly trained and conditioned unionized covert assault teams for comparison purposes – and the go-ahead was given, pending receipt by SEIU of its agreed $13.2 million “permit” fee for the grant of union rule exemptions, and receipt by ACORN of a similar amount for “consultation” services.
Patton “would have”?
We know what Patton DID do when the unit he was commanding killed a few guerrillas who had attacked US targets across the southern border. He draped them across the hoods of cars like people then did with trophy big game, for the trip back home. He kept the sword and silver-studded saddle of one of them as personal trophies.
They should’ve had some kind of throne or captain’s chair rigged up with monitors and lights and stuff for Obama to sit in.
I also noticed the golf clothes covered up by what looks like a tuxedo jacket. He’s just mad that he only got to play 9 holes instead of 18.
That “situation room” photo shows Obamemememe looking like he’s trying to sneak-slide his chair out of the meeting. He’s the smallest creature in the room.
Look again at the photograph. Obama does not even have a seat at the table. Just how telling is that detail…no computer, no notes, nada. He was merely a spectator.
Smallest in every way.
Obama looks as out of place and insignificant as Pete Best at a Beatles convention.
He looks tiny.
His eyes don’t look “steely”; they (and his entire expression and posture) spell out “dazed and confused.”
“insignificant as Pete Best at a Beatles convention”
*Nice.
For me, this paints a picture of a WH that approaches the PR angle as much as it approaches the operational angle (and with the same degree of competence). What administration learns the location of its most wanted adversary, launches a risky operation to illiminate the adversary, but makes sure that they a photographer in the room taking snapshots.
That is not the mark of seriousness. It tells me that they were already thinking of how to “make this work, work for them”
Taking pictures isn’t so unusual nor is it a Dim thing. There are lots of pictures of staff meetings and situation room meetings dating back to at least Reagan. IIRC there is a white house photographer whose job is to take pics at pretty much any time and place.
I understand that. Look at the photo with regard to the size of the room and the size of the table (everyone is crowded into the frame). It was staged so that everyone could get in the shot. It is not a candid, in-the-heat-of-the-moment shot.
If the room was packed, this photographer would have been tripping over the other people in the room and getting into everyone’s way. This would not be appropriate behavior given the circumstances (and I’ve got a hunch that the WH photog may have the most common sense out of the bunch).
Of course it was staged. Every shot you see of any president is staged. “candid” is a myth that only the naive believe in.
I can attest to the fact that most rooms in the White House are fairly small, since it’s a pretty old building with minimal office space. If you’ve ever been in the WH briefing room, it’s really small and the WH press corps is very cramped. The press secretary’s office is small. From what I’ve seen back when my job carried an office in the Old Executive Office Building next door, the big rooms in the WH are the East Room, the Oval, the Conference Room, and the diplomatic rooms downstairs. It doesn’t surprise me at all that the situation room is small.
“Smallest guy in the room….”
Smallest IQ also!
This group would screw-up a wet dream (pun intended).
Where is the strategic communication plan?
No picture, no thorough read-through before the presser. This from the most brilliant man to ever hold the office, who assembled the most brilliant team of adults -that would reset our relationship with the world.
By the end of this week, bin Laden will be on the grassy knoll with Adolf, Elvis, and Michael Jackson in a UFO built by the Koch Bros financed by money from the Templars en route to a meeting of the Council on Foreign Relations after first stopping at the Cremation of Care ceremony run by the Bohemian Grove and doing the bidding of the Illuminati and Howard Hughes’ love child GWB.
Oh, I think that criticism is unfair. A White House photographer follows the President most everywhere but the WC. And it’s been that way for a long time, for Democrat and Republican presidents.
Does this gang of presidential paparazzi look anything like the chaotic ball of hunting dogs in a Bugs Bunny cartoon?
Obama looks mad in the photo. He would be if he felt like he had been forced into making a decision on which the future of his regime hinged.
He avoids making even small decisions like the plague. It’s hard to imagine that he could ever pull the trigger on a high risk venture for which he couldn’t pawn the blame off on somebody else.
Bad BAD BAD idea to lose physical custody of the body….
We were worried about providing a “site of worship?” for the crazies?
We just GUARANTEED ONE by leaving his body unattended.
Sure as shit.
Especially when they have PICTURES of what went into the water.
Just you wait and see….the New Mythology
“The shroud of Bin Laden…floated majestically above the water….with a irredecent glow, and set itself into the hands of a humble Shepard Boy, who brought it to ME….The shroud and the BLOOD of the Lion spoke to ME and proclaimed ME master of the universe, warrior of the righteous, durka-durka-durka, mohammed jihad”
Lets see now…lots of blood to be mopped up at the house.
Sure as shit SOME of its his….
A piece of CLOTH with HIS blood on it (and independent DNA matches!) Peddaled as “the Shroud of Bin Laden”
Terrorists worldwide proclaiming victory, and “humilliation” to the infidel, as the Lion of The Land AND the Waters rises in spirit to anoint a New Leader?
Everything ABOUT these people is a lie.
Why would we give them the opportunity for something like this?
Stupid, stupid, stupid
The difference between the military operation to kill Bin Laden and the after action statements by the White House graphically show the difference between the two organizations. The first is professional, disciplined, focused, and deals with the real world with integrity.
The Obama administration, on the other hand, wants to change the reality by giving Obama operational credit. They want to make believe that Obama pulled the trigger himself.
The lack of integrity at the White House is the primary reason why they are looking like fools. They wanted to kill Bin Laden, but not offend Muslims. They want to claim that he “highjacked” Islam, but that he deserves a religious burial. And all of their pious sanctimony about how waterboarding is torture, and it doesn’t work, and about civilian trials, and closing Gitmo is just shoved aside.
These people aren’t just pathetic, they are incoherent.
Incoherent? It’s like a comedy schtick-if the audience doesn’t buy one punchline they keep throwing more out.
http://potterwilliamsreport.com/2011/05/04/deep-throat-insider-obama-irrelevant-in-geronimo-e-kia.aspx
I like the Weekend at Bernie’s reference-Weekend at Obama’s
It took him 16 hours to give the kill order. I don’t think he dithered, but I think he realized that all talk against water boarding, renditions, secret prisons, and military tribunals was just talk. I know he said in the 2008 Presidential campaign that he was going to continue the hunt for OBL. But President Obama didn’t fully comprehend to kill/capture OBL he would rely on such methods which he abhored in the past. After sleeping on for 16 hours, he was cool with it.
I am cool with too.
So Mr. President (AG Holder) and our friends on the Left, let’s be clear about this. The terrorists have no rights under our law. The terrorists can be blown-up by a military drone, shot in the head by the US Navy Seals. Also the Intelligence gathered though our unsavory practices and from the Iraqi war is ok to use. No Fruit of Poisonous Tree Doctrine to worry about when killing OBL or other terrorists.
Welcome to party, pal.
Did he dither? no… but definitely showed himself (once again) to be a s..l..o..w thinker. Not particularly deep, just slow.
I dont mean to detract, but I would like to ask a question that I think is highly relevant.
“Al Qaeda” means “the base”. Its origination comes from the early days of the late Bin Ladens Jihad against the Soviets in Afghanistan. What The Late Bin Laden was doing in those days was funding and creating hospital facilities for the Mujhadeen. During that time, The Late Bin Laden kept lists of names and personal details for those treated in these hospitals. Over time, he developed a list of thousands of the faithful.
The Late Bin Laden was a facilitator, a “Guy who knows a Guy”, in hollywood terms, he was a producer. He got people together, provided financing and “made things happen”, but the force behind that ability was his social network, that “base”.
In modern terms, his “social network”, or literally, his “database”.
If we accept the fact that its highly unlikely that this network was running at network Solutions, then the data describing that network has to be on a rolodex, or a simple PC with FOXBASE or Microsoft Access or something else, something portable, something easy to use.
Think about it for a second, “Al Queda” is a database containing all of The Late Bin Ladens terror contacts, their names, their phone numbers, locations, all in one place.
And we now have that very precious data, in our hot little hands.
Now, back in the day, back in the late unpleasantness called “the cold war”, if you tripped an intelligence network by capturing an agent, and if that person had information regarding all of the other agents in that network, you didnt jump up and run to the newspapers to tell everyone what you did, you quickly snatched each of the agents in the network, and once you had squeezed everything out of them, then and only then did you reveal that you had captured the head of that network.
Handled properly, the information retrieved at the capture site could very well mark the end of the ‘al queda’ network. Handled improperly, we could find ourselves with a new constituted network.
My question I would ask at the press pool is “Did we give any consideration to not releasing the details of the raid until the network The Late Bin Laden had been running had been shut down? Did the Administrations actions in releasing the information so quickly put the Al Queda network on premature notice?
Wouldn’t the assumption be, if we sent in the SEALS, that we got OBL’s notebooks and hard drives? What I hope is, is that we have eyes and ears open to see who’s moving and who’s stopped communicating since the news came out.
And why not park him and see what he might say?
OK, we capture him, word is going to get out real quick for that, too. So we are in the same spot.
However, if we are holding him, there is a risk AQ or its franchises, or non-affiliated fundy Muslims start kidnapping Americans around the world (or planting bombs) as bargaining chips. No matter what we do, or even not do, we are going to tick off the oh so sensitive feelings of these Muslims. If we capture OBL, there’s an incentive for these folks to kidnap Americans. Kill him, and that incentive disappears.
What rbj said. Capture him, and we’ve got worldwide jihadi incentive to do anything possible to get him released.
Stephen, you wrapped it up in one sentence: “It must be amateur night at the White House, because what I’m hearing sounds increasingly like karaoke.” It is always amateur night at the White House with this marxist regime. As for Obama looking small, it’s because he is small. Frankly, I think the expression on his face says more about his disgust and disappointment at what he is seeing than anything else. And Hillary? Her expression could be, “Oh, my goodness, is this what real life is all about?”
As an aside, would any of you other readers have been as ashamed as I to be one of those Air Force or Navy officers in that room, surrounded by traitors?
My take on Hillary’s body language in the picture is “God, who have I saddled my career to”? Of Obama, Biden, and her, she’s the only one who is halfway competent.
exactly; of the bunch, hillary probably has the more internal grit than most
which leads to the next question— What did hillary see?
this story is stinking faster than that bluegill left in the car
Marxist? Obama’s biggest single mistake was extending Bush’s tax cuts. These were responsible for turning the surplus of 2000 into the $1.6 Trillion deficit in Bush’s final year as President. I do blame Obama – for acting like a Republican.
I think for the ‘picture and burial’ question, Obama should play a trick. Tell the world he’s releasing photos, then get conservatives in a fit over how that’s a bad idea. Then announce that he’s burying the body, and get conservatives in a fit over that idea.
I’m pretty agnostic on the actual release of the pictures. Doing so certainly won’t please either the super-sensitive or the conspiracy nuts. And if it angers the Islamists? Well, that’s the one bit of good releasing the pictures could accomplish — as you’d understand if you’ve read you Sun Tzu.
All that aside, your little scenario makes no sense at all, as conservatives generally seem to be in favor of releasing the pictures, and it’s a tiny bit too late to go about burying a body already at rest somewhere on the bottom of the Persian Gulf.
So if I might leave you with one small bit of hard-earned advice, JohnJay: Please, leave the drinking to the professionals.
Is it about pleasing his American citizens or pleasing Muslims that Obama was elected?
Look at you pathetic traitors twisting yourselves like pretzels to find the bad in this situation. Please for one week just pretend to be patriots? Thanks folks.
It’s always the left claiming the right accuses them of being unpatriotic and traitors, and, well — look at you.
Anywa, I’ve given credit where it’s due. This was a grea mission, and Obama handled it exactly right. But since the mission ended, this Administration is the thing all twisted into pretzels.
Is it really too much to expect that the key figures have the facts before they speak? John Brennan’s comments, later walked back by the White House, are deeply troubling. This guy holds what should be an extremely important position. Why would he speak publicly about something so important, and not know what actually happened? What else does he get wrong? It is no wonder we have a credibility problem in the world. And for those who want to make a partisan issue of this, think again. Remember the Jessica Lynch and Pat Tillman!
Okay, so are you saying that dissent is no longer the highest form of patriotism like we were told over and over again for about eight years?
Since it seems that only Democrats are allowed to define patriotism, could you be so kind as to tell us what the new definition is? Is it blindly following the government without question? Is this now the highest form of patriotism?
If a Republican demanded that no one question the actions of a Republican president, the Dems would be screaming “Fascism!!” But I forget–it’s not fascism when liberals do it.
Good one – you just put the “truth” on its own Nuremberg Trial.
Only ask questions and make 1 million pictures of the president as Hitler or a monkey during Republican admin.
I still think they should’ve had some kind of War Room with giant monitors like the bridge of a star ship instead of some closet with tacos and potato chips brought in. Don’t they have a chef on call?
I’d say, I want some sushi but made only from the fins of almost extinct fish so send 2 atomic subs out immediately. And a cheeseburger made with cheese airlifted in from Nepal and some cheesecake from that little sweet shop in Paris. And a Spam sandwich for Mrs. Clinton on white bread with Kraft Miracle Whip and lettuce – made only from the freshest Spam direct from Minnesota.
Why do “people” like you insist on using handles invoking truth or fearlessness? Are you compensating for something?
Given that your kind has done everything possible to derail, denigrate and disenfranchise the very military services that pulled this operation off you should be the last commenting on patriotism or calling others traitors.
The pathetic traitor is the one who has a British father – should not be in the White House to begin with.
Please read the U.S. Constitution.
Thank you
Just FYI, the writers of the Constitution also had British fathers. He’s American. Get over it. Argue on the merits; if you continue with the conspiracy nonsense, we lose the next election. And rightfully so. Who wants to elect those supported by conspiracy theorists to office?
Yes, the Framers had British (mostly) fathers. That’s why they put the clause “or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution” in there right after the requirement to be a “natural born Citizen.” They all understood “natural born Citizen” to refer to someone born in the US to two citizen parents. Pretending differently is still just pretending on your part.
The best part of Obama being president is that Hillary isn’t. She’s at least competent; he’s a fool.
How the hell does a president allow himself to be overruled? The thing is, our intelligence agents finally figured out where OBL was (did the ISI decide he was no longer useful & dropped us a bone to “show” they were on our side?), and the SEALS developed a plan to get him (multiple options). When presented with this, The Whine could have put the kabosh on doing anything. But if he did so, it would have gotten out. We know that Clinton passed on a change to get OBL. Given that we question his Americanness (He’s a US citizen by birth, but calling the Constitution a charter of negative liberties shows his marxist world view, not an Enlightenment individual liberty world view) it would destroy his legacy. He had to act.
The competence part comes from our military, the incompetence comes from the administration. And I’m happy they are incompetent. Otherwise they’d be much more destructive.
This is the best you can do? This is what is really important? No wonder things are the way they are, when the focus and comments are so superficial.
It only appears superficial.
To me the most telling thing concerning our President is that it is taking him days, DAYS, to decide whether to release the photo or photos of the dearly departed. The arguments on each side of this question are few and really simple:
AGAINST: (1) If the photos are released, those Muslims who hate us and want to kill us will become angry with us. (2) Aunt Sally will be shocked to see a photo of someone who has been shot in the face and she will be forever traumatized, causing a further rise in health care costs.
Versus FOR: (1) The photos will help assure we citizens that it is really OBL and that he is really dead. (2) We and the families of the victims of 9/11 paid for and wanted this result and they and we deserve to see it for ourselves. Those who don’t want to look can turn away.
Can’t he for once, just once, be decisive???? I guess not.
While I think a photo will need to be released, I don’t see why it needs to be released right now. Any informed, rational person would have to believe he’s fish food now.
One benefit of DELAYING the release of the photo is that it brings the liars and spin doctors out of the woodworks before discrediting them.
A delayed image release would fuel suspicions that the photos in question are doctored and/or that Bin Laden isn’t really dead.
Also, a release of images in the distant future would make people wonder about the timing of the release then, as opposed to now, when it presumably makes the most sense to release them. (EG “October surprise”, anyone?).
Personally, I can see a good argument being made either way to release or not release pictures of a shot UBL.
Release them, and we look bad, and the Islamists wail louder (not it really takes much for that to happen, nor do I think we should care). If it happens, then dead UBL porn will joins a growing list of available gore-photos of mutilated baddies whacked by global good guys, like Uday and Qusay Hussein, Swinging Saddam, Ahmed Bin Yassin, etc.
While I suppose dead UBL pictures could serve as recruitment propaganda for Islamist terrorist networks, frankly, I’d imagine they’d have more deterrent effect than recruitment benefit. “Behold, the wonderful benefit of joining Al Queda!”.
Don’t release the pictures, and it feeds into conspiracy theories that UBL wasn’t actually killed, or worse, that the USA hit the wrong guy. (Again, not that we should really care).
Either way, since this has apparently become an issue regarding the mission, the White House ought to actually MAKE a decision about whether its releasing these images or not, publicize it, then stick to it. Nothing is gained by dithering here.
Pearl Harbor was a sure sign the Japanese were angry at us. I wonder if Obama would’ve called for a cultural relativism truce.
I have watched the aftermath of this mission…and…as always…the hard left is into hard hypocrisy.
First, I do NOT subscribe to the notion that EVERYTHING that touches Obama is off limits for review.
Second, let’s separate the operation and its magnificent surgeons…from the hospital administrators and the review committees. The Seals were exceptional…and for a group of hard leftists who have been scoffing at and denying American exceptionalism, probably a tough pill to swallow.
Third, people can kick and scream and deny all they want…the timing of this had a wag the dog element to it that cannot be denied. Obama was dropping like an anvil in his clumsy, befuddled, amateurish handling of nearly EVERYTHING domestic and foreign affairs alike. It is quite likely to be “coincidence”…that we have known for months and not acted on this, because it took that long to prepare properly. However, for a guy who announces the DATE that we are going to withdraw, it should NOT be out of bounds to consider whether this decision would have been approved, if the polls were otherwise at the time.
Fourth, the fact that the magnificent SEALS performed brilliantly, gives off some reflected starlight and I’m ok with that, let the administration bask in it. But, there IS a line across which the grandstanding and “taking credit” becomes unseemly. And THAT conversation should also NOT be out of bounds.
Fifth, the handling of “the message” is part and parcel of the operation. For heaven’s sake…didn’t it cross ANY of their minds to figure out a way to win hearts and minds FOR America? I mean, I realize they spent the first two years globetrotting and telling everyone that America has been horrid, evil, despicable “in the past”…but NOW…it’s going to be different, …the whole apology tour and concurrent slapping of our allies in the face thing.
This all about image, all the time thing…would have portended a less stooge-like bumbling upon success of the mission. The juxtaposition of our heroic “lead from the front” SEALS…and the jarring snap back to the “lead from behind” fumbling by this administration…is NOT off the table for discussion.
The great work by our men and women in uniform and intelligence…does NOT wipe away the accumulated history of bumbling and ineptitude in one fell swoop. It simply doesn’t. No matter how hard the hypocritical leftists try.
The Obama administration is taking their victory lap in a clown car.
You owe me a keyboard
All these critical comments, all this thoughtful input, and you put it all into one sentence. Thread winner!
“the President of the United States was not informed of the engagement order – it did not originate from him, and for several hours after the order had been given and the special ops forces were preparing for action into Pakistan from their position in Afghanistan, Daley successfully kept Obama and Jarrett insulated from that order.”
http://socyberty.com/issues/white-house-insider-obama-hesitated-panetta-issued-order-to-kill-osama-bin-laden/#ixzz1LOzmmzFt
http://socyberty.com/issues/white-house-insider-obama-hesitated-panetta-issued-order-to-kill-osama-bin-laden/#ixzz1LOj5DUdz
I read in “Atlas Sneezed” that Valerie Plame killed Bin Laden while she was acting in a rogue free lance capacity dressed like a ninja but the ones with pony tails and Pippi Longstockings with garter belts and school girl mini-skirts and little pink back packs with Pokemon on them.
She killed him with a kung fu death strike and 12 judo chops and then poked his eyes out.
It’s not healthy for a republic to have one of its few effective and efficient elements be its military, while the rest wallows in amateurism and posturing.
You forgot to add trusted. And yes we’ve crossed the Rubicon.
I was also struck by the situation room photo. It is the first photo I have ever seen of Obama where he is totally focused on something other than himself–and he looks like a scared kid. I can’t believe the incompetence of what has been sold to us as the smartest administration in history. How do they expect the world to believe that Osama is dead? I thought the entire purpose of going in with a SEAL team rather than just bombing the place was so that there would be proof of the kill. The only proof they have given is a speech and an account of the raid which changes by the hour. There’s no body, no photos, and probably no DNA evidence since they don’t seem to have anything to compare to the samples they took from the body. That’s just great.
I read in HeroinPundit that Obama is angry cuz he was the last one to enter the room and they wouldn’t let him sit on the adult couch and that he’d called dibbs in the elevator they didn’t honor.
“It is the first photo I have ever seen of Obama where he is totally focused on something other than himself . . . ”
. . .
Look closely. He’s wearing his Ipod. Probably listening to one of his old speeches again.
O is sitting there looking like he just voted “present.”
Amazing. . . . . .
Obama and company don’t want to release the pictures because they are afraid that Rageboy might be offended?
http://snappedshot.com/archives/964-Professional-Protester,-Jihadi-style.html
What a contrast between professionals who truly have courage. . . .and our present White House.
The near comic aftermath is consistent with the socyberty story — action was more or less forced on him, but now he *is* in charge and in usual form.
I think everyone is being too rough on him here. Obama’s a prick, but to me he really looks like he’s just sitting forward with his elbows in his lap.
He’s screwed up everything before an after though.
I wonder if what he should have done was simply what Thatcher did when the British recaptured South Georgia during the Falklands War. She walked out with her Defense Minister who read the dispatch from the field. As they turned to walk away the questions began she said simply “Just rejoice in it and congratulate our Forces and the Marines.”
I must confess my first reaction to the news OBL had been killed was stunned disbelief that O would have ever agreed to being associated with it at all, much less to its being done on his watch and by his command. I even thought perhaps somehow “events [were] in the saddle” had a “ridden” him in this case. So I have absolutely no trouble believing things may not have occurred the way initial reports led the world to believe. Of course, that’s based on the biased view I have of him as a person with no absolutes, who’s strictly “situational,” and whose inconsistent-to-the-point-of-incoherent “moves” can only be rationalized by measuring how much they conform to his highest “values,” i.e., power and self-aggrandizement. His odd facial expression and body language pictured here would certainly seem to fit the idea that he was forced into this decision or even that it was taken out of his hands entirely. I could certainly be wrong, but I do think the last thing he looks like is a decisive, triumphant CIC on the brink of achieving a long-sought goal. If these suspicions prove to have been the truth, I can only think of an episode from “The Honeymooners” where Art Carney “outs” Jackie Gleason about how he really won a rhumba contest–by backing into a hot radiator. It pains me to be disrespectful to the office with this trivial, comic allusion, but IMO this man is and always has been utterly lacking in even a modicum of the “authority of personality” that characterizes any real leader.
New drink: “the bin Laden”. Two shots and a splash of water.
Release the photo. People who don’t want to look, don’t have to look.
Well done sir.
Bah. That’s just a rehash of the Leon Kinghoffer joke from 1985 after the Achille Lauro hijacking…
“How do you make a Klinghoffer cocktail? Two shots and a splash.”
Gruesome, but frequently it’s better to laugh than to cry.
Okay, how about the OBL Victory Cocktail?
An olive skin, tomato juice and champaign in a shot glass.
What struck me about the photo is that there might be more people in the room monitoring the mission than it would take to actually execute it! Could some kind military soul in the audience tell me if that’s true, or close to truth?
I thought Obama looked detached – not really engaged with what was going on in the room. As someone else pointed out, he didn’t take a seat at the table, he was just part of the audience.
D
Detached? No. He knows exactly what he’s doing – leaving open a back door should the thing turn sour.
Something I’ve noticed: Obama isn’t sitting in the big chair. He’s a spectator. The person who looks like they’re running the show is the general sitting at the head of the table, and the President looks like he’s the office intern, there to bring people their coffee.
“They took me away from my golf game for this?”
“I Don’ Wanna’ sit at the big folks table. I Wanna’ go play with my Legos!”
looks to me like Obama was photo-shopped into the pictyre.
Let’s hope the US Navy treated OBL with the same civilized, quiet dignity shown for another muslim leader…..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2k7mpnPJWDo
They are a few blank seconds, be sure to watch it all the way through to enjoy the subtle beauty of islamic culture.
Is that “the” situation room? It looks more like the situation room’s coat closet. Why are they packed in standing room only?
The White House simply didn’t expect to actually get bin Laden, which isn’t much of a surprise considering the other death traps he escaped when the military had a much freer reign. I’d be more suspicious of the attack and capture if it did have a perfect PR setup all ready and waiting.
Ross Perot took out GHWB. Well deserved. let us lament the mistreatment Adm. Stockdale suffered.
It is stunning to see the lengths you will go to in order to avoid giving the man his due or tarnish the historical impact of this success. Equally stunning when one considers that had this gone wrong and not been a success you very same people would have vilified him. Can you honestly find so cause to be ashamed of yourself in that? Is there some philosophy to which you adhere that is more precious than your citizenship? Obviously that is the case.
I’m not sure which part of “The plan for killing Osama Bin Laden was perfectly conceived and as perfectly executed as any special forces operation since Israel’s raid on Entebbe” didn’t give credit where it was due.
And while I approve and applaud wholeheartedly the killing of Obama, I fail to see the “historical impact” of it. What has change on the ground in the Middle East or Afghanistan in the last three days? Where is the impact? OBL has been marginalized for years. Still, big props for killing him — he deserved it quite richly.
Meanwhile, yet another lefty has made yet another charge that I’m unpatriotic or treasonous or something. Peddle your hate elsewhere, please. The grownups are trying to honestly and openly critique the Administration’s mishandling of the aftermath.
Dissent is patriotic, except when it isn’t.
We like our citizenship just fine, we’re just not entirely certain of his – not cuz of the “birthers” thing tho’. It’s just that he acts like he’s the President of Gaza/Mexico sometimes so he’s still on probation.
And we don’t believe there’s such a thing as a ninja President who had a live feed of his face on a chest monitor of a SEAL saying, “Bye-bye, Bin Laden” like Dr. Evil.
Consider now the possibility of a “death” photo of UBL release.
It has all the same procrastinating and indecision that were part of the original mission. I have to wonder if they think they can continue the “glow” by dragging it out with a promised “photo” that appears to always be “over the horizon” (like communism). They did exactly that with the “birthers,” so why not do a repeat ?
As for the sensitivities, doesn’t anybody think that killing him was insensitive enough. After screwing with the narrative, they now even have it looking like the shot down a defenseless UBL … like a mad dog. I don’t think the “he may have had a bomb under his clothes” story line is going to cut it.
If they really want UBL to be forgotten, let him go. Release the “death photo,” convincing those who can be convinced that UBL is dead, and close the bloody thing out. Instead, they have made a political calculation that they can bask in the glow of a killing, like a KKK mob after a lynching, and somehow they can show they are “sensitive” by not releasing the bloody “photo.” Oh, please.
The President who ordered a risky mission involving high order decision making on a high value target can’t do the same over a photo release?
Maybe he should put a SEAL team on the job.
They’re busy preparing a multi-layered Photoshop version like the birth certificate displayed recently.
Good heavens! Of course we are seeing two different levels of performance. The action was carried out by the best of the military. The post operation is carried out by politicians and bureaucrats. Did anyone anywhere really expect the hacks to be as competent as the professionals?
Whatever the post-event PR blunders that have been made (or not), I think it’s a bad idea for the President to go to Ground Zero tomorrow. Isn’t that the first time he’s been there? To me, it has all the feel of a campaign photo-op, and I think he’ll lose whatever bump-up in the polls he got from having OBL bagged & tagged on his watch.
hilary looks as if she’s having flasbacks to the time she was under fire in the balkins!
Hey, better to flub the post-op PR than the raid itself. Everyone involved deserves mountains of praise & it’d be churlish to deny it them.
The first time I saw this pic my reaction was the same as other posters here: Obama looks small. It is like a picture from Take-Your-12-Year-Old-To-Work Day. He is the smallest person in the room, and his body language has that “I’ve just been nadded” look, not like “I’m kicking terrorist ass!” Obama does not look like he has a clue here. I think Hillary has a less useless appearance, but the hand over the mouth seems a bit squeamish. Biden IS awake! And, no ice cream cone!
I’ve seen this Situation Room photo around the past few days, too. Again, looks like a 12-year-old is sitting in his daddy’s chair.
Gotta say, from the indecisive way Obama has treated every crisis from the Knicker Bomber to the release of the Bin Laden photo, I cannot believe he gave the order. I’m inclined to believe Ulsterman’s account of the event.
This article brings to mind what has bothered me about this whole deal.
Clearly there was a military plan, rehearsals etc etc.
So now you have Bin Laden.
If alive, what was the plan?
If dead, what was the plan?
And by plan I mean:
1. confirmation that you actually have Bin Laden.
2. should we should we not try him and in what venue?
3. If dead, what evidence do we have to collect/release to prove he’s dead.
It just sounds like the aftermath of the operation was not as well planned as the actual raid itself.
I still think they should’ve tried Bin Laden on live TV in a giant microwave oven wearing a tin foil tuxedo and with the American public’s votes automatically enabling “High”, “Low”, or “Thaw”.
“You’re Fried!”
Gee, nobody was worried about Muslim sensitivities when the MSM released the photos from Abu Ghraib.
I think Obama looked like he was about to pounce on the prey, while everyone else looked horrified. For someone who is all about power, there’s probably nothing better than taking someone’s life.
As bad as Osama bin Laden was, killing someone is nothing anyone should rejoice in. It’s unfortunate it has to happen, but it’s no cause of celebration.
I find it very curious that Obama is usually on TV every darn day, yet now he is no where to be found. It seems obvious to me he is avoiding questions on the topic because he really doesn’t know the first thing about it and couldn’t handle any detailed questions.
Obama is such a political opportunist and so unprincipled, I’m kind of bummed out that bin Laden was taken out on his watch. As harsh as this sounds, I think I dislike Obama mroe than bin Laden. At least bin Laden was honest in his hatred for America.
And that is what is moderately disturbing about some/many of the participants here. At least this guy is honest. How many of you really DO hate Obama more than Osama? Seriously, I know that some of you would definitely have preferred that the mission ended up with helicopters crashing in the desert, a complete failure, for which Obama could be ridiculed and defeated. Bummer, eh?
My unofficial policy here is that birthers will be mocked and truthers will be banned. You’re verging very close to the former.
Oh, and I haven’t decided yet what to do with the deathers, but it won’t be nice.
What is the Birther connection?
There isn’t a birthed connection — that was just an aside.
Dwight, I think your misunderstanding here is the meaning of words, once again. There is a HUGE difference between dislike and hate. Hatred is one of the reasons we kill others. Dislike is not.
I kinda agree. I dislike Obama more than bin Laden. I had no expectations of bin Laden. I DO have expectations of my President. Probably a better word than dislike is contemptuous. I am more contemptuous of Obama, because the expectations are higher… expectations he grossly fails to meet. So, I dislike him. A lot. I do not hate him. I do not wish to see him dead. Bin Laden I wished to see dead.
Honestly, I did not hate bin Laden either. He just had to die, because he simply could not be allowed to live after what he did. It took 10 years and a trillion plus dollars, but we ended him. In the end, there was truly no place that was safe for him.
Obviously I have misinterpreted the endless nasty things people say about Obama around here for hatred, when it is actually dislike and contempt. Mea culpa. It is a challenge to distinguish between those who actually do hate (you are not going to deny that there is some hatred here, are you?) him, and those who contemptuously dislike him.
But what is predictable is that when he does the right thing, the Tucson speech, the birth certificate, the killing of Bin Laden, the anti Obama stuff is even shriller with a kind of panic that Obama is getting some traction with the public. It is so similar to what happened with GWB, who no matter what he did, the majority of the left hated, er contemptuously disliked him. The feelings become almost completely separated from actual events that are happening, because every event’s essence is seen only through the prism of how to blast the guy. When one “knows” that the guy is a narcissist or an alcoholic, everything has to fit into that scenario, and when the guy does something good, even greater effort is required.
Yes, there are exceptions around here (and with the left) but they stand out because they are the exception, rather than the rule. Frankly, it makes political passion seem more like a religion, and a fundamentalist one at that, than an activity governed by reason and logic. Reason and logic are just not as much fun as passionate spewing, or is it that people just can’t help themselves?
Hi, Dwight, my very good friend. I am a bit concerned. You seem to present yourself here as an objective voice of reason, taking sides only against wrong, whatever the source.
I’m afraid I must now ask you if you would kindly compare this comment of yours: “Obviously I have misinterpreted the endless nasty things people say about Obama around here for hatred, when it is actually dislike and contempt. Mea culpa. It is a challenge to distinguish between those who actually do hate (you are not going to deny that there is some hatred here, are you?) him, and those who contemptuously dislike him.”
Compare your comment here, I say, with similar critical comments you have laid like turds across the whits pages of the peace-loving blog Daily Kos, where respect and rational debate hold sway…nah. Thank you in advance.
Fred, You can’t plow (or pee in) every field out there. I don’t read Kos, but I have read the NYT’s comments section after many of their articles, back before they started charging at #21, and have noted enough crazy lefty responses to believe that even worse stuff gets written at Kos. They are as crazy, er, I mean enthusiastic, as you are, OK?
Goooolllyyy, Dwight, you mean you have been hoarding your pee just for us PJM readers (not that I really ever thought otherwise)? Well, I for one thank you. If you and Red Oldneck are about all they’ve got, I’m getting very hopeful about 2012.
As opposed to the dropped turds you referenced earlier, pee helps make the fields grow green, and I have the garden to prove it. Sorry for misleading you.
I don’t believe you’re sorry, Dwight. But back to the question: Is it only conservatives, like many of us who comment here, that you criticize and accuse of hatred? If so, you can’t be the objective observer you have claimed to be. One visit to Think Progress or Daily Kos would demonstrate that to anybody.
The death of OBL although being used by Mr. Obama and his PR folk as a victory equivalent with VE or VJ day is unfortunately nothing more than …the death of OBL!
Mr. Obama’s ‘honeymoon’ will be short-lived.
The country is in chaos, real inflation is approaching 10%, food and fuel prices are rising at alarming and unaffordable rates. We have spent over $1 billion on a third front in Libya with no real explanation as to why. Guns were sold to Mexican drug czars by US Government agents…and on and on and on.
Shortly the shooting of a really bad guy will fade into the past deeply and quickly. Once again, the sense that the United States appears to have no direction or focus will re-emerge with the renewed strength of a flu relapse.
The Muslim world did not embrace the culture and exceptionalism of America before OBL was shot nor will they after.
Thursday afternoon when Mr. Obama heads back to DC after his campaign appearance in Lower Manhattan it will be to the same chaos he left only with 24 hours new growth…and as usual, no answers or solutions.
Who has released all the “human shield, Osama had an AK,” nonsense?
Fire them.
I was amused to see The Guardian gleefully report that the Pakistanis laugh at the notion that Osama’s lair was worth a million. “It doesn’t have a swimming pool!”
Sorry- I think the story is the location of the bunker/mansion/lair, not the housing market in scenic Pakistan.
I agree – If you live there, look what you have to do to take a dip in the ocean.
I’d like to time travel to the future and read all their memoirs.
The photo is such a tease. We get to see their reactions instead of the action. Clinton especially makes me want to see what she’s seeing.
Apparently the White House is so unfamiliar with the military that they never heard of After Action Reports or thought to read such before putting their feet in their mouths. They may be just too busy dithering or hanging out in a situation room watching a blank screen.
Not sure if this account is all true, but it does fit with what I already know about Obama, and also Valery Jarrett. The most startling thing about this operation was that Obama would act with such resolution and boldness, since he never had on any previous occasion. Now we find out that Obama may have been his typical waffling self, and was pushed into the action by wiser heads.
If this account is true, it eases my mind about Panetta replacing Gates as secdef. Like Gates, he appears to have what it takes to stand up to Obamas idiocy, and do what is right.
It would also be a great benefit if Valery Jarret got pushed out of the administration as a result of this. She is one of those appaling combinations of rigid leftist idealogy, combined with political calculation taking precedence over what is right.
Past presidents haven’t taken kindly to leaks like this one. I wonder what Obama thinks about it.
What the hell is wrong with these people? What a CF.
Only Zero and his dancing wife could screw up this kind of an opprtunity.
there are reports coming from pakistan that there was no firefight; they only heard a couple shots (possibly the execution of bin laden?) and there may not have been any weapons; some in israel are suggesting the “mansion” was really a “holding home;” to pull bin laden out of the hat at the most strategic time or when they cant keep it under wraps anymore
the point is that obama cares only about his political survival and his only “trick” is to create so much confusion and feed arguments from both sides in order to keep his true manipulations disguised as long as possible (at least from those still believing the hype of him)
obama does nothing without consulting a poll first
this incident is beginning to poll in different directions for different reasons and the admin is losing control
therefore; no pictures (add more confusion) with the goal being everyone must spin what happened for himself until it becomes politically beneficial to do something else
i’d hate to have obama and crew as the only witnesses in a crime committed against any of us
I’m sure that the administration had a PR plan, but I’d bet even money that it revolved around Republicans bashing Obama, spouting hypocracies, or not giving him credit. Then the administration, backed up by media outlets, could bash Republicans for playing politics. What they didn’t count on was that most Republicans aren’t playing politics but actually want what’s best for the country.
I can’t believe this whole thing. The WH themselves say they knew about about Bin Ladens’ whereabouts since last August. Then there are reports that the military wanted to go with this much much earlier this year, like February-March, but they could not get approval from the WH. They were doing rehearsals in Afghanistan in March. But Obama apparently would not approve the action. Then, apparently he delayed it again last week, for 24 hours. Then he waited for 16 hours again, before approval. Remember, just one leak destroys years of effort. Every delay just increases the chance of a leak. And the golf thing, really bothers me. We know what is more important to him, and it is not the US military.
This whole indecisiveness scenario fits right into what he did before in his decision on Afghanistan which took months and months. Also what he has done in Libya. Is he in or out? Does anybody know what our policy or goals are? And now the post action Bin Laden PR is a disaster as well.
And while he is bragging about his “decisive” role in all of this Bin Laden business the US dollar hit a new low today, and gas and food prices continue to rise as does the government debt. But he will still have time for golf.
He is a small man.
I sometimes wonder if there is anybody (any administration, really) who actually asks, “What if this happens?” even if the “this” is unlikely but not impossible and does so for every possible “this” the person can think of and follows up with more considerations for given answer.
Question. What if Bin Laden surrenders (or under circumstances that would normally mean he’d be taken alive), what then? Is he executed on the spot? If so and that gets out do we have an answer for that? If not, then what do we do? etc.
Question. What do we do with the corpse, on the assumption that he’s dead? Bring it back to the US so we can show the world he is, in fact, dead. Then what? Cremation and scattering his ashes? Secret burial? Toss it into the sea somewhere? etc.
ETC.
The military and CIA kind of had it easy. They could plan and prepare for the operation. After that it was either GO/NO GO for them and success or failure. The only problem for the raiders, assuming no screwups going in or leaving, would be either Bin Laden not being at the place or his escaping.
A PR exercise which lacked the finesse of the military exercise:
Why the midnight press conference? (Is that the closest the WH could get to the 4 a.m. phone call.)
Why the facial wounds? (An easily recognisable face is all that the world wants to see.)
Dead rather than alive and the burial at sea is understandable. (Who wants another al-Megrahi.)
Releasing a picture of the WH (eagerly?) watching the kill online. (That’s just not done.) (Imagine the outcry should it have been GWB.)
Why not release all the correct information from the outset. (Milking a crisis? Don’t waste a crisis?)
Et cetera.
For the last two days I’ve been commending Obama (for the first time) saying the raid was gutsy and thinking to myself that maybe the guy has a bit of “bite” and moxy to him after all…my first hopey changey moment. His whole administration has been such a gutless, chaotic mess up to this in my opinion.
So I had an “ah-hah” feeling when I read the Socyberty article from “an insider” telling how it “really” went down. Paint me a party pooper but the description of events in that article sounds so spot-on to what I thought last week about Obama’s indecisiveness and incompetence that it must be true. I wish it weren’t, but I bet it will be confirmed in someone’s memoirs one day.
Yes, he’s still hopeless.
Here’s what troubles me about the “iconic” photo. What is the President doing pushed off into a corner? Why wasn’t he seated at the table? C’mon people–Conference Room Seating Hierarchy 101–someone ought to have saved a seat for POTUS. The seating, and the President’s absence from the table, lends a bit of credence to the WH Insider piece re: the President being out of the loop. The location he got stuck in is a spot usually reserved for someone who came late to the meeting (or who was pulled off the golf course after the meeting was under way) and whose presence wasn’t essential to the meeting in the first place.
obama has the look of a person who has never seen a victim of violent death. You can bet they are looking at the view from down the barrel of a weapon from the operators point of view.
Dennis was right. Now that I’ve studied it closely, Obama really does look like he was photoshopped into that picture. Could that be why his image appears slightly smaller than the rest? The man is 6’5″, after all. What the hell is up with that?
6′ 5″? Are you talking Obama or Osama?
6′ 1″ supposedly.
Not releasing the photo is a mistake of monumental proportions. And it is going to haunt the USA for all eternity.
If Obama had been told that Bin Laden was a Republican, especially a conservative, he would have given up his games of golf and told his people to “get in his face” and they would have published his picture with a crosshairs on it. And he wouldn’t have wasted any time about it either. Nope. No indecisiveness there. And they wouldn’t have cared how they buried him, either.
Now, of course, we are supposed to be “united”, even as he is destroying the economy of the country and taking away our liberties at the same time. I heard a comment the other day that Obama in certain ways has done much more damage to the country than Bin Laden did. Of course it is not a terrorist attack, but in some ways it is more destructive, as Obama punishes those who work and rewards those who do not. As he tries to control free speech and the press, as he creates inflation and destroys our savings. As he pushes his crony capitalism to help his buddies and destroys the rule of law where some are more equal than others, and puts us and our children and grandchildren deeper and deeper in debt, and his only solution is more government programs to control more of our lives, he is doing tremendous damage.
I ignore the D.C. suits altogether (for they f uck up each and every thing they do for ‘the greater good’) and only WISH I could buy each and every SEAL involved in the operation as many cold ones as they so please.
I hope the TRUE logistics maestro behind this party (it’ll be an annual shindig in my home) was some crusty old SEAL in-country whose passion for his men/country is infinite. Like those depicted in a W.E.B. Griffin book!
I’ll make a shirt with a mug of Obama and ‘Buh Bye’ below his bust. I’ll try drawing in 2 entry wounds using images of the 3 losers released by Reuters.
Call me what you will, but I’ll ‘Spike the football’ with glee.
Not to take away from the professionalism of the operation, if I were doing it I would have tried to go through the information found at the compound, and tried to use, it before publicizing the death of Osama. Very few people, even in al Quaida knew where he was, and the longer they were unaware of his demise, the less time they would have to react to it. One might have announced the killing of some other al Q big-shot, and the bad guys, discovering that he was alive might assume we had blundered. It seems dumb to brag to the whole world including the enemy of potential intel successes against them.
I see endless speculation about Obama’s actions and what kind of fallout they might have, but I think most of it is based on erroneous assumptions. The more I’ve learned about this man, the more I am convinced he is nothing but a vile narcissist who is unworthy of the office, and that his true motivations can be boiled down to the following:
- Does it boost his ego and/or his public image?
- Does it reduce American power and/or standing in the world?
- Does it conform to the hard-left agenda?
…and finally…
- Can it be peddled in such a way so as to obfuscate any or all of the above?
With those assumptions, everything he does makes perfect sense.
All of this fumbling and changing of stories on the part of the White House – It’s enough to make one think that perhaps the President is having second thoughts about the legality of his orders.
Wouldn’t it be amazing if the Noble Peace Prize winner ended up being put on trial in the International Criminal Court?
Okay, Mr. Green. This article has been a smash hit. I see it referenced in a lot of places. I love your work.
However, it is exactly the same points I made in a comment yesterday in response to an article in PJTatler. Can I get at least a h/t, please?
This goes for other writers who use my comments, too. It happens a lot. I know what I post here is open source, but a hat tip would be nice, time to time. You guys write better than I do, and you reach a larger audience, so I have no problem with you using my points. Just an acknowledgment here and there, please? Thanks.
Marc, besides the many readers here, I always look forward to your poignant and lucid comments.
Though ‘I don’t wear a hat’. Perhaps if a bald spot/receding hairline occurs in the near future, absolutely!
In the mean time, thank you Sir.
Thank you, Sir.
P.S. Pointed, not poignant… poignant being sad or bittersweet.
I think it have been very dramatic and effective in the Muslim world if he had been tazzered into unconsciousness and his head sawed off with an American made chainsaw–give them back what they give us.
A correspondent at Jerry Pournelle’s web site links to a fascinating report which implies … no, it doesn’t, it comes right out and ACCUSES – that CIA Director Leon Panetta planned and carried out the Bin Laden kill without the President’s knowledge or approval until the very last minute, and that even then the President was trying to dither….
http://www.jerrypournelle.com/view/2011/Q2/view673.html#Panetta
Not sure how true and/or complete this is, but it sure has the ring of plausibility….
Interesting, Stephen — you find the White House Insider sufficiently plausible to cite him/her. I’m curious, what’s your take on this person?
I know my take on it: disaffected Liberal. He or she got to see the true face behind the mask.
Lots of Libs are decent, patriotic people. They have just been ensnared by the noble-sounding lies. At some point, though, enough of the truth is seen, and they can no longer reconcile their beliefs with reality.
I mean, really, we see some evidence of this every day, and we criticize it. Imagine what it must be like to work with these people every single day. Long, hot showers to clean off the foul miasma must be a requirement at the end of each day.
This is not the first negative leak we have seen, but it is not a constant stream. Either real careful, not fully disaffected, or not highly placed enough.
A CIC green-lighting such a raid is like my giving a surgeon permission to operate on my child. I am relying on the surgeon’s skill and expertise. I’m sure as hell not going to get in his way.
obama is not in charge of american affairs, his cabinet is toothless and virtually non-existent. obama’s “senior advisors” starting with valerie jarrett and channeling george soros and union trumpka are calling the shots obama is not capable of managing. obama and his advisors could be considered war criminals in every sense of the meaning narrated to the public during President George W Bush’s tenure. If it were not for the fine historic legacy of the USA and it’s longevity of goodwill in the world, we would all be up scooby creek by now. as it is, it will be a long while before we repair the erosion of our nation’s credibility our “leader from behind”, mr. obama, is causing in his wake.
I would consider this as only a very minor “flustercluck,” as the data recovered on various electronic media have yet to be analyzed. Once that analysis has been completed and fully acted upon by the appropriate forces, then we may see the basis for a major public relations coup concerning the eradication of major al-Qaida assets. Any Presidential chest-thumping and gloating should be reserved until that time; until then it will be premature! It should be remembered that this is only the end of the beginning, rather than the beginning of the end! This is not the time to act brashly and get your skivvies in a knot!
I don’t mean to piss in your cereal bowl, but let’s examine a few facts.
1. The Democratic-controlled Senate passed a resolution honoring the SEALS who bagged OBL. Meanwhile, the GOP-controlled House refuses to pass such a resolution.
http://thehill.com/homenews/house/159375-house-wont-honor-seal-mission-with-a-resolution
2. In your “analysis” of the WH SitRoom photo, you failed to mention that President Obama was not wearing a flight suit with the crotch straps cinched up tight, strutting around the room.
3. And another thought: All you rightwing wackjobs are telling us “Waterboarding at Gitmo got the information needed to bag OBL.” HOWEVER — waterboarding at Gitmo ended while Bush was still prez. Which means, according to your construct, the Bush had all the info he needed, before he left office, to capture or kill OBL. Right?
Sorry if this makes your head explode.
What I am having trouble sorting out is the CNN story that they got info from the waterboarding of KSM and the other two, but they actually lied about the couriers. But then, somehow their lies did/may have helped in piecing the puzzle together.
O’Reilly was ecstatic that he was right and Alan Colmes was wrong on the strict construction of Rumsfeld’s remarks, but I noticed that Rumsfeld was very careful to push the “it was a mosaic of information” line and O’Reilly did NOT ask him about the KSM lie piece.
On both Pakistan and waterboarding, O’Reilly is taking the relatively small piece that he knows and trying to expand it to a couple new doctrines. We are not there yet.
“Bummer, eh?”
The Ping Pong Tougue applies subatomic spin to it’s bozo-on pronouncements.
Dwight
“Seriously, I know that some of you would definitely have preferred that the mission ended up with helicopters crashing in the desert, a complete failure, for which Obama could be ridiculed and defeated. Bummer, eh?”
May 4, 2011 – 3:44 pm
So how does The Red Pencil Neck “seriously” know this? Oh yes, it is simply D-White being rhetorical, a licensee that he grants to himself with no restriction, but others, those who do not conform to Pick It Fence But Mystical Law are deemed damaged, and have the worst of intentions. D-White alone is allowed.
The “seriously” Modern Liberal mind, as such, just cannot “seriously” help itself, some form of non-compliance exists even with full compliance. You can’t possibly comply, because then you would “seriously” be me. And only I can “seriously” be me. Ping Pong Thought. It’s a shifting convoluted labyrinth of “Centrist” blathering that quite often ends with a frustrated “blah, blah, blah”. “Seriously”.
“Dictator blah, blah, blah” riffs, something like –
Dwight
“Welcome to PJM, It hasn’t taken you long to see the main problem here…”
May 2, 2011 – 5:25 am
Notice the special herd mentality –
“The redeeming point here is that a few contributors and posters know some history, or have a particular professional or business expertise, or at least can either present a coherent and POSSIBLE alternate solution or realize the need for some reason, moderation, compromise etc.”
May 2, 2011 – 5:25 am
Yeah, “a few contributors” most likely that “seriously” noble bison D-White, and… Who?
There’s always this bit of D-Wisdom that has been voted off The Pick It Fence Hall of Fame –
52. Dwight
“Evidently, a preponderance of you guys and gals are a bunch of frantic drama queens…”
February 23, 2011 – 8:29 pm
Never happened. Right? Something about glass houses and stones?
Tweedy Guidance is provided, such as –
Dwight
“Do you know Holmes or someone’s definition of pornography? It also applies to hicks.”
October 20, 2010 – 9:00 am
Was that Holmes that you are paraphrasing, D-White, or “someone” else? Hmmm, seems that there may be “someone” else involved here… No, not hicks. Does it apply to D-White? Well, anyway, D-White is so above the fray that he is turning “seriously” blue.
The tendency to group non-D-Whites into something more conveniently nasty allows D-White to perform. Perform somewhat like Mr. President’s latest Press Secretary. But then again, one wonders if The Red Pencil Neck is as “seriously” cute as that.
Well, you walk into the room
Like a camel and then you frown
Ah, more fascinating analysis of my, (maybe we should call it) “neo-liberal” point of view, but then I was conservative before I was liberal. Is it possible that I met you once at a Young Americans for Freedom meeting in the early sixties?) How about the moniker: “red-pencil neck, neoconliberal, pickit fence, ping pong tongue D-White” or something? Have you gone back to check out Falstaff’s outbursts to Hal?
Do you have any information on the KSM lying about the couriers while being waterboarded? Nah.
But I appreciate your English teacherly approach, although I would question your usage of “licensee;” I think you need “license” there. The nice thing about literature was, and I suppose still is, is that one could respond just to what is on the printed page or possibly in biographies of the author. It made for a nice limited, semi-ordered world to respond to. I am pleased to be able to supply you with a fair amount of content toward your thesis, but I apologize for not keeping a compendium of your wit.
I suppose that it is OK to be a drama queen (that one really sticks in your craw, doesn’t it? You have now quoted it more than five time) and as for being attracted to the “seriously cute” Presidential spokesman. What is up with that?
Good D-White. The Red Pencil Neck pops another one. Hey, does Tweed consumption mitigate Faculty Lounge Drama Queen reality? And that was once and now am stuff. Classic Pick It Fence But. The gate is always open for the virtual escape.
Let’s see here. Still don’t get the pornography reference? So –
Holmes, fire, theater.
Stewart, know, see.
Palin, hick, D-White. Fascinated.
There now. Get it?
Gosh Pick It Fence But. Cute. Cute like a “seriously” confused puppy, D-White. Check out Mr. President’s latest pick.
You put your eyes in your pocket
And your nose on the ground
I am guessing that no one, including me, knows what the two statements by Supreme Court Justices have to do with the fact that I said Palin was fascinating, but a hick, or that a lot of the people here are drama queens. Is that yelling “fire” in a crowded theater? Is that pornography (that only YOU know when you see)?
If others understand you references and associations, they can prove me wrong by chiming in. Maybe if you sang it.
Jeez D-White. Good thing this thread is dead. Such lameness. The Ping Pong Tongue has spoken -
Dwight
“Do you know Holmes or someone’s definition of pornography? It also applies to hicks.”
October 20, 2010 – 9:00 am
Ok. You know a hick when you see one. Ok.
This does not reference Oliver Wendell Holmes. Try Potter Stewart. Or someone.
Stick to typos. Your making Dylan read like a IC data sheet in comparison. As far as the Freudian slant goes, check out the Fred Meyer parking lot in Wasilla. Again. She might be there.
As for the ‘resolution’ getting nixed by the GOP, think about this.
How many of said SEALs or ‘heroes’ of past conflicts ‘wanted the honor, recognition’?
I’ll go with zero. Oh, wait. Except for twice Purple Heart ‘earner’ John Kerry. My bad..
Kerry’s grandstanding fiction before Congress in the 70′s was despicable. The cherry on top was his marrying a late colleague’s wife.. CLASSY! (BTW, another good read with a bit part about ‘Lurch’ is retired Lt. Col Robert ‘Buzz’ Patterson’s, ‘Dereliction of Duty’ (carried President Clinton’s ‘Nuclear Football’ for 2 years).
In the book Col. Patterson discusses how Lurch tried to veto nearly the entire military arsenal of the United States. Even voting twelve times against military pay increases (Wow, what a way to ‘pay back’ your former ‘brothers and sisters’)
Col. Patterson discusses how Lurch promises to abandon the War on Terror, open a dialogue with terrorists, and apologize for the “mistakes” of the Bush administration (phew, thank goodness Obama carried that water, am I right?).
‘Recognition’ for doing one’s job is against everything the military teaches, instills.
besides, ‘Ol Biden let it slip MORE THAN ONCE regarding the SEALs and their part.. idiot.
How about being outwardly thankful for our servicemen and servicewomen? Period.
And while I’m at it . . . .
You seem to be the expert on how to run a PR campaign. After all, you’re telling us the Obama handling of the OBL affair was something of a debacle.
Perhaps you’d like to address the brilliant PR job the Bush administration did with the WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION in Iraq?? You know — when Rumsfeld said “We know where they are . . .” Or should I say “weapons of mass distraction?”
“…the area in the south and the west and the north that coalition forces control is substantial. It happens not to be the area where weapons of mass destruction were dispersed. We know where they are. They’re in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat.” Donald Rumsfeld – March 30 2003
Brilliant!!!!
Then, there’s the case of former Army Chief of Staff Eric Shinseki who told Congress that the war in Iraq would require several hundred thousand US troops and several years of occupation. Remember that? And remember how Deputy SECDEF Wolfowitz denounced Shinseki’s statement as being “wildly overblown” and forced Shinseki to resign? And we are still in Iraq, just as Shinseki said we would be.
Honestly, you illiberals have this knee jerk reaction to resort to yesterdecade-type mechanisms for your, ahem, ‘validity’.
Hey champ, when a fascist Dictator stonewalls weapons inspectors, FOR YEARS to look at one’s facilities, NUMEROUS countries intelligence investigator’s came to the SAME conclusion regarding WMD (not just the U.S. bub), As well as Bill & Hilary Clinton, John Kerry, Clinton’s RETAINED CIA Chief, NATO and numerous other Democrats grandstanding to go into Iraq for said WMD’s.
Secondly, read ex Iraqi General Georges Sada’s book, ‘Saddam’s Secrets: How an Iraqi General Defied & Survived Saddam Hussein’. It’s moer than likely at a nearby library so you don’t even have to buy it.
As for your quoting Shinseki, Rumsfeld and co. – apparently Bush had ‘mind control’ or something similar for these individuals to say such things, right?
Seriously, change the record ‘Sir cut n paste’.
If you want to play quotes of yesteryear or heck, last week, I’ve got some Obama gems and ditties. Though hopes of engaging you in a lucid-type discussion is obviously moot.
Independent, non kool-aid drinker.
Holy crap, Red Oldneck. You were doing reasonably well until you dragged Iraq, a new Mid-east democracy, into this discussion. The old Bush lied[along with the security branches of every western government]people died trick. You can’t pull off that goofy, musty stuff here, you sly fox, you.
Now, Red, let’s just look at a few facts here as reported by unnamed and named government spokespersons via the Media:
(1)Iraq: We won. Saddam defeated and hanged by the new Iraqi government. Photos released.
(2)Abbotsville:
-There were one or three AKs found in the compound.
-There was a frantic firefight/a few rounds fired/no US casualties/a female human shield/or not.
-There was/wasn’t a helmet cam failure for 20 or 30 minutes.
-The compound was a mansion/shack/million-dollar/seventy-five thou building.
-A woman attacked the Seals/Special-Ops forces and was shot in the leg by somebody, maybe.
-The president of these here 57 United States; after two and a half days of intensive meetings, consultations, and extreme deep thought; has decided to censor a photo of a certain dead body, assumed by us to be OBL, even though we citizens bought and paid for the photo and there is no way to call this photo a military secret. Osama, he dead. Of course the President has no such power to censor a photo like this/he has every power to do it.
-These are their stories and they’re asticken’ to ‘em/or not.
Old Redneck; Nice try. Trying to change that subject. Even the Democrats, based on the available intelligence agreed with the Bush administration regarding weapons of mass destruction. And when Bush realized that post invasion Iraq was a real war, he reacted appropriately, by forcing the surge against all opposition from the Democrats and even his own party, And it worked. We now have only 50,000 troops in Iraq now, far less than before and the level of violence is down significantly from what it was in 2006. This was the war we had “lost” according to the Democrats.
Now about today. Obama himself said the intelligence came from 4 years ago. No matter how you try to spin it, that was under the Bush administration, using their methods. They didn’t act because they only had a small part of the info, which was developed over time. But this would have never happened if the Bush administration hadn’t started the process.
According a piece in the New Yorker, Obama was closely involved in rearranging the CIA’s study groups. Was he making up seating plans? If he was so intimatelly involved, why did he seem so surprised by all this? Did they think OBL would blow himself up? If all this happened under Bush, he’s be considered a war criminal.
The guy’s a tool.
He had to check with the SOROS Group before he did anything. They vet every major action taken by this President. The “sleep on it” bit was a break so he could be instructed on what to do.
Look again at the picture in the Situation Room (where Hillary is coughing) and you will see that The President is not in charge. He is not running the meeting. He is sitting off to the side of the Brigadier General at the head of the table. That is not the seat of the Commander in Chief, unless he was brought in off the golf course at the last minute.
Had this picture been taken in the late 40′s or 1950′s, when HST and Ike were the C-in-C’s, do you think maybe, just possibly, someone would have made room for them at the table ? (Both led troops in battle successfully – maybe that would have had something to do with it).
P.S. Ike kinda, sorta liked golf, too.
Maybe I’ll wait til next year to learn the facts, by that time they’ll have a consistent story. I can’t keep up with all the fact changes surrounding the Osama kill, I have trouble un-remembering things. Is there any consensus now among the general public about what exactly happened that day? Because I’ve had the same experience as several of my friends when recalling what we’ve read/learned with family or colleagues, we end up briefly arguing about the events based on the fact that the story keeps changing! I wonder now how much the TIME issue released on May 5th has gotten wrong from the ever evolving “official story” by May 9th…? The “iconic photo” isn’t really all that iconic, Clinton was coughing, not gasping, Biden looks like he’s watching the game, Obama looks incredibly focused and tense, while the lady in the back who is supposed to be the head of counterterrorism looks slightly intrigued/almost amused. It’s just a weird photo, and wouldn’t surprise me if it wasn’t taken during the actual raid but afterwards.
Having a photo of “that moment” just sounds so cool, and is great for Obama’s campaign, especially if it makes Obama look good. I disagree totally about how you think he looks small, I think he looks very focused, determined and understandably tense. It also makes him look good not being in the center of the photograph, it’s not so obvious that way. But comparing the faces of the better actors with someone like Biden who isn’t clever enough to act, just makes me suspicious. I’m sorry if being suspicious doesn’t fly with you but I can’t help it with all the changing stories. It just looks kind of staged like “ok everybody imagine you’re watching the raid right now!” I can understand Clinton denying later and saying she was coughing because she is very sensitive and tuned in with people portraying her as effeminate and weak and thus incapable of leadership. By the way I’m not suggesting this admin is deliberately lying about Osama being killed, I can not believe that many of our politicians and leaders could ever be so corrupt – I just wouldn’t put it past them to concoct a photo if they hadn’t taken one of “that moment” to release to the world because they’re all about IMAGE more than anything else. They’re a very superficial bunch.
As usual, Pajamas Media leaps into stupidity.
Last week, within minutes of President Obama’s announcement that Osama
Been Forgotten was dead, you rightwing dingbats started your attacks on
Obama.
One of the earliest and continuing attacks against the Prez was that
his speech was all self-centered, all about “I, me, my” and not about
“us, we, our.”
BULLSHIT.
A few minutes ago I printed the transcript of his speech. I then went
through the transcript with a red pencil and a yellow highlighter.
I circled in red every instance of I, me, my, mine — every use of the
first-person singluar.
I highlighted in yellow every instance of collective pronouns — we,
us, our, team.
And the results????
WE, US, OUR, TEAM: 83 occurrences.
I, ME, MY: 14 occurrences.
And there you have it, folks. The truth — which is not what you’ll read here. Try it yourselves.
Watch the language, please.