Obama’s chickens are coming home to roost.
“I think we’re going over the cliff. It’s pretty clear to me they made a political calculation. This offer doesn’t remotely deal with entitlement reform in a way to save Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security from imminent bankruptcy. It raises $1.6 trillion on job creators that will destroy the economy and there are no spending controls,” Graham said on CBS’s “Face The Nation.”
Graham had signaled a willingness to violate Grover Norquist’s anti-tax pledge to avert the fiscal cliff if Democrats made an effort to reform entitlements. But he said Sunday the White House’s plan for entitlement reform was laughable.
“I’m serious about revenue,” Graham said. “You can limit deductions to $40 or $50,000 a person, which takes care of the middle class. Upper income Americans will lose their deductions, and raise about $800 billion of revenue. But I’ll only do that if we do entitlement reform, and the president’s plan when it comes to entitlement reform is just, quite frankly a joke.”
It’s very difficult to draw any other conclusion from the president’s proposal than that he intends to go over the cliff and blame Republicans for the ensuing pain. Why else would he propose a plan with so many poison pills in it? The GOP will not accept $1.6 trillion in tax increases. He knows this, just as he knows that unless he deals with entitlements, there’s no chance the Republicans would agree to increased revenues in the first place. And the addition of $255 billion in stimulus money is indeed a cruel joke. No entitlement reform but a stim bill using borrowed money? How can anyone believe Obama is serious?
The press is treating Obama’s plan as reasonable despite its dearth of spending cuts — even targets for spending cuts. Why should the GOP even bother making a counterproposal when the two sides are on different planets when it comes to pulling back from the disaster that awaits us after January 1, 2013?
More: Geithner Insists on Tax Rate Hikes for Rich
I think it’s clear that we are going over the cliff for two reasons. First, that this administration hasn’t the foggiest idea how to negotiate anything at all, and they are in no mood to do so anyway, never have been. They win or lose, they simply don’t know how to split the difference, and are apparently too stupid to do any math, ever. Second, that they are gidddy at the ease with which this cripples our military, and that they can do it all with clean hands.
Actually there’s a third, that they think that politically they can then blame the Republicans and somehow profit thereby.
The damage this does to country? Doesn’t come into Democratic calculations.
Remember, this is a party that has not passed a national budget since the regime came into power.
It is all a charade. And the GOP is complicit
Chicagogate: Cover-up Exposed
http://illinoispaytoplay.com/2012/11/30/chicagogate-cover-up-exposed/
Republican or Democrat, neither have any idea of how to fix the economic and debt crisis we’re experiencing. The so-called Reaganomic era was not self sustaining. The GWB era was not self sustaining. A world war and following industrial revolution is all that finally pulled the Great Depression out of the hole. To make things far worse we’re a major part of a new global economy which is suffering the same economic and debt crisis. Nobody knows how to fix it with big government remaining the same or trying to yet expand more.
While I happen to believe that the government has grossly abused the original intent of social security, Medicare and Medicaid, those programs alone are not the crux of the problem. A spiraling out of control growth of government and programs expansions are the crux of the problems. Everybody knows how to fix this problem!
We’re going over the cliff regardless of any brokered deal unless each of the real problems are effectively address and modified quickly.
I think it is best for the GOP to agree that the magical Clinton Tax Rates should return by just letting those awful Bush Tax Cuts expire. Banish the word Bush from all discussions. But we need to be clear that those Bush cuts helped the middle class primarily.
However, in honor of Clinton it should be called the Clinton Tax Recovery.
At least it will be better than what we could negotiate in just weeks, with thousands of pagest of regulations written after the fact.
Boy, are you nutty! Letting the tax reductions lapse will punish the middle class and it won’t do a thing toward reducing the deficit. So long as all you leftists don’t want to spend your own money, and get away with it, nothing will save us. Margaret Thatcher was right. The problem with socialism is that, eventually, you run out of other people’s money.
I’m still pushing my vote present plan. We ARE going over that famous cliff. It is to late to stop. I could argue that we have already gone over the cliff, we just haven’t hit bottom yet. The economy peaked in July. It has slid down ever since. So what is being discussed is the rate of decline, not a change in direction. The deadline in January is just when ‘junk bond Ben’ finally looks down.
America has it’s very own Willy Coyote moment.
No, it is too late to avoid disaster. Rince and dry made sure of that. Now is the time to plan for surviving the mess. DJ composite is down 1.29% since the election. 50 day mark is worse. Not a crash but a slide.
To do what is easy is nothing. Greatness requires doing what is hard.
Let ‘er rip!! Then obama and democrats can own it!
We should applaud the cleverness of this anti-american administration: now the GOP must choose between destroying America’s military might and destroying America’s economy.
Nice move.
But it proves once and for all what are Obama’s real goals.
Pity that the inner cities’ inhabitants had not the brains to understand all this.
Oh well…
Yeah, I bet the GOP is wishing it would have blocked the debt ceiling increase now!
As soon as they announced that deal I told my wife that the republicans had accepted a deal based on the assumption that the dems didn’t want to allow sequestration either when in actuality, the fiscal cliff gives them everything they’ve screamed about for the last decade.
Essentially Obama is now asking the republicans to give him only half of what he wants as opposed to giving him everything. What kind of idiot doesn’t see that one coming? And yet, everyone was so surprised when we were downgraded after the deal.
A fatal assumption the GOP keeps making is allowing the democrats to define the middle ground. We’re driving over that cliff. It creates the type of crisis Rahm would love to take advantage of. Now when the democrats orporse middle class tax breaks around Q3, republicans cannot oppose it.
Basically, the Democrats are demanding the Republicans say “no” to their folks while demanding the right to never have to say “no” to their own. And they expect media and academia to enable to them to profit by it. And they may be right.
We are not one country and it is useless to pretend we are. Perhaps we may become one again. I won’t lose much sleep if we don’t.
This debacle will never get blamed on the Dems no matter what happens so long as the MSM is totally in the tank for the 0. So we will destroy 40% of our military and join Europe in the ranks of the poorest, brokest nations on earth. Just what 0 set out to do in 2007. He can now do a victory lap, claiming mission accomplished. Let’s see how many seats that lets him elect in 2014. That will really tell the tale. If the GOP doesn’t get into full campaign mode itself, and very very soon, it is screwed.
Despite all the hoopla and hand ringing, this is not a cliff at all. Many times in the past Congress has passed tax bills that were effective retroactively to the first of the year in which they were passed. If this doesn’t get resolved in a mutually acceptable fashion by year end, and the resolution comes some time later in 2013, the bill will be made retroactive.
That Obama is about to leave on a three week vacation in the midst of these negotiations shows just how unserious he is. If he had one whit of leadership ability he would present a draft of a bill instead of lip flapping by Geitner. To my mind, the House should incorporate the Bowles-Simpson plan into a bill, pass it and send it on to the Senate. I don’t see how that approach could be criticized and it would address most of the contentious issues.
Disturber
“Why should the GOP even bother making a counterproposal…”
Not a rhetorical question. How do you defend a non-response? The problem is that plain dumb English is not built into the vocabulary of the GOP establishment. The moe artful they sound, the more disconnected they appear. A recent television interview of Saxby Chambliss comes to mind.
Yeah, Craig, but have you heard about what one of their new volunteer mouthpieces, the Cardinal of cash Warren Buffet, said last week? If you haven’t perhaps you would like to take today’s question on the daily ‘Are You Hip?’ test:
637. In late November Buffet made in so many words which of the following points?
A) High taxes on the rich are useless in trying to eliminate the federal debt.
B) Enacting taxes into tax law that are based on envy and spite is popular with the ‘middle class’.
C) I don’t give a sxxt about the morale of the smart and hard-working executives, managers, and workers who have made me fxxxxxg rich beyond my wildest dreams. I am worried about the morale of Obama voters.
D) Taxes should be raised on people making over $200 grand a year in order to placate the 51% who don’t give a fxxxxxg sxxt about people like me, Warren Buffet.
E) B, C, and D.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2012/11/27/buffett_tax_hikes_on_rich_would_raise_the_morale_of_the_middle_class.html
Correct answer—————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————- E)
Obvious question.
After all the wailing and gnashing of teeth, just how far down is the bottom of the cliff? Is the bottom rocky or, is it just possibly a large river, with a deep bottom…wherein the hero jumps to safety leaving the braying hyenas behind and pops up down stream with a new outlook…and a bath.
Actually cutting the military budget takes time. De-funding entitlements happens instantly.
Bottom line, then, I am not so sure that a jump into the river isn’t a good idea.
ta
After all the wailing and gnashing of teeth, just how far down is the bottom of the cliff?
Nobody knows. People hate uncertainty. OTOH it may not be so bad. Financially it’s the best thing going, the issue is the military cuts. Dangerous.
But worst of all, it shows Congress and Washington are paralyzed.
Then the real problems, the structural problems with the economy, take over.
Uncertainty increases, and real damage continues towards a real precipice, the point at which we cannot borrow any more. Then it’s all Bernankebux, and presumably hyperinflation, savings vanish, industry halts, and a world depression ensues.
This is the road forward, and nobody at the wheel to turn any other way.
Last year, the GOP said that it was absolutely vital that the Bush tax cuts be retained, or else unemployment might go even higher.
That’s probably still true today. If all the Bush tax cuts expire next month, that would be a big chunk of money taken out of the private sector. The private sector might slip back into recession, and unemployment will rise again.
On the subject of whether Repubs should fold on higher tax rates:
Have you heard about what one of the new volunteer Demunist mouthpieces, the Cardinal of cash Warren Buffet, said last week? If you haven’t perhaps you would like to take today’s question on the daily ‘Are You Hip?’ test:
#637. In late November Buffet made in so many words which of the following points?
A) High taxes on the rich are useless in trying to eliminate the federal debt.
B) Enacting taxes into tax law that are based on envy and spite is popular with the ‘middle class’.
C) I, Warren Buffet, don’t give a sxxt about the morale of the smart and hard-working executives, managers, and workers in the businesses who have made me fxxxxxg rich beyond my wildest dreams. I am worried about the morale of Obama voters.
D) Taxes should be raised on people making over $200 grand a year in order to placate the 51% who don’t give a fxxxxxg sxxt about people like me, Warren Buffet.
E) B, C, and D.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2012/11/27/buffett_tax_hikes_on_rich_would_raise_the_morale_of_the_middle_class.html
Correct answer—————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————- E)
Oops. I got the ‘slow down’ message and thought my first comment was gone into the internet netherworld. Sorry for the semi-double post.
Obama was reelected making no secret of the plan he and his administration has offered. The election provided no mandate for spending cuts, much less entitlement reform as Graham and many posters here would have it. Why shouldn’t Obama blame the Republicans for taking us over the cliff when the election effectively affirmed his positions? And why would anyone be surprised if he succeeds in placing the blame on the GOP given the results of the election? If the alpha and omega of the GOP consists of spending cuts and entitlement reform, then they are on a track to oblivion.
As Mark Steyn recently notes implicitly, no one is making the case that Americans want a Scandinavian-style welfare state without paying for it. This has been affirmed over many elections, not just the past one. Despite the GOP’s protests to the contrary, there hasn’t been a party in this country insisting as a matter of principle on fiscal responsibility for ages. Such a party would have a very different stance in the wake of this election: You want all this? Fine. Then, you pay for it. It would be a fine idea then to have a tax system that not only covers the tab, but focuses on GDP growth: you’re going to need a much bigger economy to support the system, because you’re not going to be able to pay for it all on the current tax base.
The problem is that there are no adults – only adolescents, and politicians planning to make a career in DC.
We’re not going over squat.
The plan all along has been to destroy America by raising spending to the point that the economy will crater. This is just the latest phase of the scheme.
Republicans should immediately pass a bill in the House that taxes everyone making over $250K annually at 50%, and anyone making that amount in non goods-producing roles at 90%. That would include the media, politicians, government officials, academia, union bosses, think tanks, and lawyers. It would exclude the military, construction, agriculture, business products and services, medical professions, etc.
Throw it back in their faces.
Actually not a bad idea. But I would suggest rather that they pass a true wealth tax where you need to declare your net worth and pay a portion of that every year. Hello Warren? will this catch you up with your secretary’s tax payments? Isn’t this a better way to “spread the wealth” then by nailing middle class workers and small business owners who happen to have a good year or two and preventing them from ever earning a retirement equal to that of the average public employee?
Furthermore they should pass a bill where anything paid by any government (read taxpayers) for unfunded public employee pensions and health care must be matched and put into a fund for private sector workers. I would love to hear the sputtering and protests but just what would be their reason to oppose this?
We need to expose their hypocrisy and hoist them on their own petards (with apologies to Shakespeare).
The banks, hedge funds, and Wall Street financiers who were some of Romney’s biggest supporters are not considered “goods producing activities” either.
Your proposal would actually hit the GOP’s biggest supporters just as much as you think it would hit the Dems’ supporters.
Guess what: BOTH parties get campaign contributions from super-rich rent-seekers.
Does anyone not remember that Osama Bin Laden’s ultimate goal was to destroy our economy? Need I say more? The sickening part is that our elected representatives in DC are playing a game and allowing it to happen. Since when is the result of an election a suicide pact?
Our incompetent, narcissistic boy-President puts his “vision” before the good of the country. I hope this “cliff” business will blow up in his face.
Indeed. Obama isn’t serious now and he never will be. And I’m not holding my breath to wait for him to take accountability for anything. Ever.
Obama is a figurehead. He never could sustain his positions without the great majority of the Democrats backing him, apparently without any reservations.
A recent poll by Gallup, I believe, found 45% of Democrats viewed socialism, whatever that is these days, “favorably”. Yet their policy preferences are successfully shielded from the voting public by a complicit press and a reticent GOP, even in the midst of the economic debacle in Europe stemming from just those very ideas. That out to tell us something about what we are up against.
Let it burn.
Boehner and the republicans still have the upper hand – they’re just too big of p–ies to use it.
Refuse to pass the debt increase and any spending bills. Shut the government down for a protracted period of time.
WTF – they’re going to get blamed for apocalypse now anyway. So do it. And watch how quickly the dems cave in. Or not, doesn’t really matter at that point.
This is something that a lot of commenters are missing. Yes, the Democrats can get what they want – higher taxes on the rich – with our the GOP, but at the cost of higher taxes on the middle class. However, by the end of March the GOP will be in a position to achieve a major policy goal – a balanced budget – simply by going home. I, for one, would like to see how the economy reacts when DC stops sucking over $1 trillion a year out of it.
The Republicans are not going to get Democrats to vote for them in 2014 by compromising with Obama. Further, if the Republicans don’t start standing up for fiscal restraint, they won’t get many Conservatives to vote for them, either. So, they’re screwed. Best they can do is refuse to raise the debt ceiling, and to hell with the tax code. Even with no ability to borrow, there’s still enough revenues coming in to pay interest on our sovereign debt, but not enough to continue or to expand the entitlement programs. Obama will have to act like a real President, and decide whether he wants to ruin the dollar by defaulting on sovereign debt in order to pay the entitlements, or to cut the entitlements and pay interest on the T-bills. There will be angry people either way, but the anger will be directed at Obama.
Across the board tax increases arent so bad, we need to pay down the debt. Across the board spending decreases arent so bad, cut the fat and reduce government. The military will survive and there is certainly much that can be trimmed there without much negative impact.
The only thing missing is that Medicare and Social Security arent in the across the board 10% reduction. So entitlement cuts/reform are the next logical step in the right direction, which can be leveraged against the debt increase.
There is still a lot wrong besides that, but that is a serious and good start.
Wrong.
A. Taxes cannot be raised enough to pay it off without destroying the economy
B. There is no way Obama and the dems will use the money to pay down the debt anyway.
C. The national debt is headed over 20 trillion before Obama is done.
D . The government will inflate the currency until it is worthless
That is the only way the debt will go away.
Well, there’s also economic and social collapse, but one way or another it will get ” fixed”
I strongly suspect Obama doesn’t give a rat’s ass either way; he won’t suffer.
The Republicans have to counter with their own plan. You have to fight an idea with another idea, if only for PR sake. The President has said millionaires and billionaires should pay more – fine – only people making over a million dollars should pay more. Forget over 250k. Then lay out real cuts – eliminate entire government depts – energy (they produce no energy), labor (they create no jobs), education (they only give back to the states they steal from), commerce (they create no commerce), means test social security and medicare so millionaires and billionaires do not receive it.
A plan? A PLAN? We don’t need no stinking plan! Can’t you see that everything is under control. There, there…you just go back to whatever you’re doing and let the pros take of this.
OBAMA ACTS LIKE NAPOLEON: The President’s offer (on the fiscal cliff deal) is not a serious one, if compromise were what he was seeking. It betrays his real purpose: to drive the Republicans and the nation over the fiscal cliff. In a move Napoleon would have approved, he is attempting to turn his narrow victory in November into decisive victory in January.
Lets evaluate this cliff. Stopping debt from accumulating is a cliff? Now, that is progressive thinking for sure! It must stop, and the bureaucrat tweens must get past the fear propaganda. We are taking names and votes!
May 16 2012 Timeline Of Senate Democrats’ Refusal To Make Budget Plans Public
http://budget.senate.gov/republican/public/index.cfm/budget-background?ID=b630d3bd-f985-4943-a87a-a746ecec6a51
By the way, we have gone over already!
Coburn Says National Debt Could Cause “Apocalyptic Pain” December 29, 2010
http://www.personalliberty.com/news/coburn-says-national-debt-could-cause-apocalyptic-pain-800312938/?eiid=&rmid=2010_12_29_PLA_%5BPIZ5310C%5D&rrid=243781801
Well, I think that since Obamanauts or Obamamatons voted for Obama, they should pay Obama taxes. Period. So all those unionistas pay up. Pay the higher income tax rate and get the 2% SS tax restored. So tough it out, you voted for it. By the way, many of you delusional people will either lose your jobs or get downgraded to parttime status with Obamacare coming on line. So enjoy the ride to the bottom. You voted for it. Now you got it.
What the GOP needs to do is keep talking about how Obama blames the American people for keeping a Republican majority in the house.
Anytime Obama blames the GOP, turn it around on him and mention that Obama is ultimately blaming America for keeping a Republican majority!
Give obama a chance, to see what he will do.
We are already over the cliff. We just have not hit bottom yet. What we are seeing with all this ‘negotiating’ can best be illustrated using an old ‘Roadrunner’ cartoon. Wylie E. Coyote has gone off the cliff, and for a second or two is hanging in mid-air, legs in motion, flapping his arm… and we hear the whistle and see the ‘poof’ as he hits the canyon floor. We are watching congress run in circles, flapping their gums… next we hear the whistle and then… ‘poof.’ We hit bottom.
The debt is too big, the unfunded obligations are too large… obumma is going to go after the 401ks and whatever else he can before all this is over.
It’s just too damn bad the idiot voters that elected that moron in the white house had to take the rest of us over the cliff with them. Good thing I learned to sky dive. At least I know how to use my parachute. I may end up at the bottom of that canyon with everybody else, but when I land among the debris and bodies it will hopefully be a soft landing.
Bingo. Nailed it.
Just cutting spending to where we *aren’t* spending 40% – 50% more than we take in changes everything people know and understand about our economy, their lives, incomes, and government ‘services’ of all kinds. iow, a crash.
That’s not talking about unfunded liabilities or paying down the debt. That’s not even talking about raising taxes.
If we don’t slash present levels of spending by 40% – 50%, we still crash. …because of unfunded liabilities and unpaid debt…and ever rising taxes on everything and everyone.
So, crash if we do and crash if we don’t.
Like you, I think it’s pretty much too late, anyway. We’re over the cliff, still in the air …and waiting for imapact. Put another way, it isn’t a matter of outcomes. It’s just a matter of timing and details.
Yes – We have spent our way over the cliff.
The debate about how to pay for that spending is almost irrelevant at this point. I’ve lost interest in this farce.
The debt ceiling is the only debate that matters and I doubt the GOP will even try not to raise it.
The idea that all these giant entitlements could be reformed in the next few weeks before the Christmas holidays is laughable.
Reforming entitlements is a difficult and complex job. In 1995, it took months before welfare reform passed Congress and Clinton signed it into law.
Besides, we conservatives had blasted Obama for ramming through ObamaCare in less than one year’s time; no real time for debate before the public. If the GOP rammed through entitlement reform in ONE MONTH’s time with zero debate before the public, we would be doing something even worse.
The GOP in Congress miscalculated badly. In 2011, they only agreed to this sequester business (and rejected any deal with Obama on the deficit) because they assumed that Obama would lose the 2012 election. In which case a GOP president would get them a better deal.
Had the GOP known in 2011 how the 2012 election would turn out, they would have rushed to make the best possible deal with Obama when they had him pinned following the 2010 elections.
The United States spends 40%+ more than it earns and is in the process of printing trillions of dollars out of thin air to pay for it all.
As for cutting spending…
We are going off the cliff regardless of what is negotiated in Congress. Only the timing is in doubt.
“the disaster that awaits us after January 1, 2013?’
There will be no disaster January 1, 2013. This is Chicken Little stuff.
Have you people forgotten Benghazi? Screw the fiscal situation, Obama is clueless and our Republicans are a bunch of mentally mundane morons masquerading as competent when in fact simply mentally masturbating with their DC mendicants! ARRRGHHH! Focus on Benghazi and impeach the bastard for treason!
Benghazi is a dead issue because the senate will never convict him. Never. No matter what facts come to light. Obama could literally come out on TV and say:
“Yeah sure I lied about the whole thing to get reelected. It worked suckers. I watched those people die, didn’t send any help, and went to bed for my fundraiser because my reelection was so much more important for the world than a few worthless bumps in the road. You mad bro?”
And his supporters on the street, in the media, and in congress would all clap and cheer for “sticking it to the Republicans”. If he publicly beheaded the film maker with a scimitar in the name of Allah, vile toadies like Chris Matthews would congratulate him on his “bold outreach to muslims” and you still would not find 67 votes in the senate.
As to “cutting” the DOD budget, frankly I don’t give a damn anymore. An $850 Billion a year military, bigger than the next 5-10 countries combined, and no help whatsoever at Benghazi with an airbase only 400 miles away. And then all the STUPID “Islamic Nation Building” which seems to be DOD’s job 1, 2 and 3. Since this is the way our military is used, let the “cuts” commence.
I support the US military, but not the commander in chief. The number 1 military threat comes from Islamics, yet we have a president and military brass who refuse to even recognize Islam as the force behind the constant worldwide violence. Obama sides with the Muslims – he said so himself. He will use the military to promote jihad if he can. That’s probably what was going on in Bengazi.
He will happily destroy the US military, and leftists and Muslims alike will cheer.
He’s working on it. Down to ten carriers today, oh, but we’ll get a new one in 2015. Just what we need in the change on focus to the Pacific.
By the way, it was closer to $750bn, with the Obama cuts and sequestration it’ll be $650bn. More than everyone else? Sorta depends on who’s doing the evaluating, don’t it? I’m sure China- with an annual 10% growth in military spending evry year for some time now- reports it’s spending in a way that really reflects actual gains in military strength. Aren’t you? And Russia’s upgrading of it’s nuclear weapons and missles are surely evaluated in equal dollar terms to our military spending. Yeah, that’s the way to judge military spending, by declared dollar value- not by capabilities, age of equipment, mission, requirements- just stated dollar value.
We really need to grow up.
By all means, let’s go over the cliff and start cutting expenses and raising taxes as agreed upon. However, we know that will not happen. Neither dems nor reps have any stomach for cutting spending.
I wonder if this was part of Graham’s plan all along, publicly renounce the pledge not to raise taxes so as to seem “reasonable” and “open to compromise” then use that credit to call out Obama as being unreasonable and unwilling to compromise, as he is. The media’s been giving Graham a lot of air time, they love to see the GOP infighting and in disarray, so if Graham can portray himself as the voice of moderation before denouncing Obama’s ultimatum, it could work as a run-around of the media blockade on conservative ideas. Maybe they all should’ve done this, announce they were open to raising taxes before showing 0s plan as unworkable. Who am I kidding, Obama could publicly declare that he’s going over the cliff to punish the wealthy no matter what and the gang of vile toadies in the media would still find a way to spin it into being the GOP’s fault.
Antifragility, anyone? It wasn’t always like this and it can’t continue. Within the past 70 y or so, the two parties have managed to collectively steer the most successful nation in the history of civilization into fragility. The thing will break, eventually, maybe not Jan 1, but, it will break and when it does it will be catastrophic. The only question that remains is will it get stronger?
Reference: ANTIFRAGILITY: THINGS THAT GAIN FROM DISORDER by Nassim Taleb (author of THE BLACK SWAN).
All the Republican Congress has to do is stop funding 40% of the federal government. I also favor taxing the 47% of the country who dosen’t pay taxes. Time to grow up.
Dear Republicans,
Let them have everything they want. Do not attempt to take government seriously. In fact, make a big production on how you are reluctantly signing this because you believe it is the will of the people. It is. If they voted for Obama or stayed home then they need to feel the pain. We who tried to save the ship will have to suffer too, but it is better financial than a civil insurrection. This pain needs to be felt and needs to hurt really bad. Either Americans finally wake up, or they don’t, and if they aren’t going to, they aren’t going to if you try to stop Obama now. Don’t give him ammo. Give him what he wants and let him take the blame.
Go over the cliff. Obama and his supporters are all so much inter “fairness,” right? So what could be more fair than ALL Americans sharing in the pain come January 1? Let all of Obama’s supporters take a bath and see how they like it for a change. Why should only the rich and small business owners get crushed when, according to Obama, 98% of Americans deserve a tax break? If you took every dime away from the “rich” in this country, it would only fund the government for a few days. Nothing will change without major entitlement reform.
If we keep spending money the way we’re spending it, we go over another cliff real soon. We will end up just like Greece when we finally do go broke and then ALL benefits to EVERYONE will have to be substantially reduced, just like in Greece. What will follow after that is major civil unrest and possibly even a total breakdown in law and order (which is what happened in Los Angeles during the Rodney King riots). So we either deal with our fiscal problems now, while we are still solvent, or we go over another “cliff” later on and lose everything.
Judging by the way American voted this year, I think they really don’t care and wouldn’t mind kicking the can down the road until we really are finished. The Europeans, especially in places like Greece, Portugal, Italy, and Spain, are seeing first hand the total collapse of the social-welfare state. At this rate, we’ll be there soon too.
Using statistics from the IRS website, it was found that 137,988,219 tax returns out of 140,494,127 — or 98.2 percent — reported adjusted gross income of less than $250,000 a year in 2009, the most recent data available. The key word being “adjusted” gross income! Obama has consistently stated “those people who make $250 K or more should have to pay more” representing those who need to do their fair share in paying taxes. The obvious question should be whether he means gross or adjusted.
This whole matter of taxes and who is “rich” is a stinky bag of worms! Wealth in America also includes assets which again can be a mess. Some large asset holdings can be either a liability, generate net zero taxable income or generate some “controllable” scale of annual taxable income. Then you have a class such as farmers and cattlemen who have large asset holdings whose wealth is generationally leveraged and controlled by bank credit lines and credit debt.
The point is, the data and rhetoric representing who the “wealthy or rich” are that should be “paying more” is misleading. Tax exceptions are controlled by many, many special interest groups. One could say that he/she has assets that generate more than $1M annually but adjusted he/she claims @250K or even far less. Remember the data at the top of this comment? I personally know many, many, many millionaires who are in the 98.2%
Now is the time for the GOP to be taking a stand on a either a flat tax on individual income or national sales tax or a combination of the two and cut government non essential spending down to whatever is left of generated revenue. Think that wouldn’t cut the size of government down in hast fashion!
Oh no, National sales tax is a very bad idea. Dems would love that. Check out Europe where you have a 20% VAT in addition to the 70% income taxes. It doesn’t matter how small it starts or what they promise to cut or give up in the short term, it will regrow until you’ve got high income taxes again and a VAT to contend with, both fueling an even greater welfare state. Once the snake gets its head through the door, the rest will slither through.
I disagree! Our nation has long had a sales tax model in place with most of the states and muncipalities. I’m not suggesting a European form of VAT. I am however, suggesting that a sales tax model replace the existing IRS taxation model for individual income. The only federal legislation needed above and beyong the sales tax implementation would be a balanced budget act passed and a maximum percertage of sales tax set at 10% in conjunction. Included in the balanced budget legislation would an ‘agressive percentage’ to pay down the national debt.
Such a means of taxation and legislation would force the government to downsize to meet the constitutional mandate for defense and of course maintain reformed social benefits contracts of the past. Everybody has skin in the game then — no exceptions.
Ah, ok. If you just want a national sales tax in place of the income tax I can see where that might be better. For one thing, as you say, everyone would actually have skin in the game. In practice though you’d have to repeal the 16th amendment before I’d go for this. If a future progressive government maxes out sales tax revenues and still has the ability to levy income taxes on the books they’ll propose restoring income taxes “only on the 1%” in the name of “fairness”. From there it slowly grows and creeps down like it did the first time.
Our current deficit is around $1Trillion a year, and welfare direct wealth transfer payments are about $1Trillion per year now, just eliminating that would pretty much solve at least the short term problem. But we all know you’re more likely to win the lottery than see that happen.
Medicare, Medicaid, and the Children’s Health Insurance Program (CHIP) – together accounted for 21% of the budget in 2011. $769B
Safety net programs accounted for about 13% of the federal budget in 2011. $466B
Social Security accounted for about another 20% of the budget in 2011. $731B
In other words, 54% of the 2011 budget in the worst economic environment since the Great Depression – maybe worse.
There are relatively easy fixes to theses government costs to bring it down to approximately 30-33% of the budget ‘without’ disposing of the promised benefits but, ‘nobody’ wants to do it. When I say nobody, I mean the overwhelming majority of Americans.
Therein lies the problem! We don’t have national leaders in Washington; we only have partisan ideological political hacks. Nondiscreationary spending should be capped at approximately 65-70% and discreationary spending capped at approximately 30-35% of government spending. Except for the military, all government retirements programs should be administered through a program similar to 401K’s. In other words, run the government like any other private sector American business is accountable.
Why is there no discussion of the one power the GOP retains. Last I heard the House still must initiate and authorize Federal spending bills. Pass the basics, ignore the rest. Big tax raise in Jan.? Don’t authorize spending any of it, let it go to the deficit. No continuing resolutions with any growth. The Senate won’t consider the bills-pass one and leave the ball in their court.
The Senate comes around and the Pres vetoes? Repass the same bill. Keep telling the people, we passed the bill, now it’s up to them, if they won’t take the money and spend it, too bad, so sad.
Riots? Yes, they’re coming sooner or later anyhow. Recession? Same. A stop in the growth of the debt? At least temporarily.
They can’t win the media war, the Dems won’t seriously negotiate, they will be blamed anyhow, why not try digging a line and holding it.
What is the game plan for when Obama seizes the purse, authorizes the Treasury to issue debt over the Debt limit and effects a Constitutional Crisis ? I am not asking a rhetorical question; we need to anticipate this.
Does anyone have power to arrest the President, or is the required process impeachment ?
First step would be for Congress to refuse to authorize the expenditures. If the O is spending money not appropriated by Congress he would be violating the law. Note that once appropriated, lately by continuing resolutions, he does have a lot of- but not unlimited- power to shift money around. Depends somewhat on wording of the appropriations. Another step would be to go to the Federal courts to enjoin illegal spending, and then…if you can’t arrest him, you arrest those following illegal orders to mis-appropriate…and then you’d have to impeach.
Note that a lot can be done to delay or derail improper expenditures without impeachment, and it’d be a really noisy fight the press could twist but not ignore. It would take a lot of guts, effort and bucks from the GOP in Congress. The bucks they can do, the guts and effort….
Forbes said it best:
” We went of the fiscal cliff ten trillion dollars ago.”
Romney was our last faint, if faintly ludicrous, hope of getting off before the outcome became inevitable. And for whatever reason, he failed.
The financial sequestration and social castration of our military may finally get the attention of the socialist ‘allies’ we have out there (e.g., France, Japan, etc.). They have long depended on our military to defend their socialist lifestyle partially financed by their huge savings on military spending that we used to take care of for them.
It would be interesting to watch them finally have to pay for their own defense for once, but I suspect they’ll just start cozying up to the Russians (or China) as our power wanes. One power’s just as good as another to them as long as the gravy train of socialism keeps rolling for a few more years.
Let it crash and burn.. I can use the entertainment.
Can someone breakdown the 2013 impact of the “financial cliff” for me. The total spending cuts look like about $100 billion for 2013 which isn’t much out of an almost $4 trillion dollar budget and even $50 billion from a $500 billion defense budget doesn’t seem to warrant all of the doom and gloom.
So, is it the income tax increases on top of the already planned Obamacare taxes that are the problem?
Let it go over the cliff. Wasn’t it joe “bite me” biden that said it was patriotic to pay higher taxes? Well, we sure wouldn’t want the 99%-47% (that pay no income tax) = 52% feel unpatriotic now, would we?
It’s going to be interesting to see what the Dems do in the aftermath of the cliff. Slashing the military and raising taxes on everyone is a sacrament to them, so they’re not going to be too sad about that, but from what I understand a lot of Obama “gimme-dat” goodies go away when the fiscal cliff hits too. For example I think a lot of the indefinite expansions of unemployment benefits get rolled back as well as a few other things. Most likely the Dems will keep reintroducing the tax cuts for the lower income brackets only so that they can label them the Obama tax cuts, but what will they do to restore all the welfare goodies? How exactly will Obama usurp the power of the purse this time? It’ll be interesting to watch.
As far as the debt limit, one suggestion made was that since the federal government has the power to mint currency Obama could just direct the treasury to mint a $1 Trillion (or 5, or 10, or 100 etc) coin and deposit it at the federal reserve, thereby enabling them to withdraw new cash on it without the formality of having to sell new debt. Of course funding the government with inflation is not a good idea, but it’s largely what they’re doing anyway and I think it’s ideologically appealing to them because it gives them a way to rob all those evil greedy people who actually saved their money instead of trusting the government to provide for them. People have been talking about Nancy Pelosi’s plan to confiscate people’s private 401k accounts to fund entitlements, they are full well planning on doing this but the weapon of choice will be inflation, not an outright expropriation. At least not yet.
I guess we all know what Obama’s “balanced approach” is now.
One party is evil the other is stupid.
The only “fix” for this problem is term limits, but we know that isn’t going to happen.
The true fiscal cliff is the basic funding for the one plus trillion dollar deficits by printing fiat dollars for the fed to buy the government bonds.
This has only one thing,growing inflation.Why would any real investor purchase a bond that will lose 10% of its value in a year and pays 2% interest
Medicare and Medicaid will have to increase reimbursements to reimburse Doctors a living wage and to keep hospitals open.Social Security payments will increase to cover inflation,The public Unions will demand increases to cover inflation and on and on. This will increase the annual deficit and the spiral goes down and down.
“Medicare and Medicaid will have to increase reimbursements to reimburse Doctors a living wage and to keep hospitals open.”
Except for the most rural doctors in America, doctors work in the profession for wealth — not thier oaths. They are everybit as corrupted as the labor unions themselves. Their corruption spreads to the hospitals whose budgets are nearly non existant after paying doctors their service fees. And we haven’t even covered their prositution to the pharma companies.
“Social Security payments will increase to cover inflation”
Inflation is self inflicted by the people of the nation and all inflation is arbitrary!
Obama Celebrates Rosa Parks By Publishing Picture of Himself Katie Pavlich News Editor, Townhall Dec 03, 2012
http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2012/12/03/obama_celebrates_rosa_parks_by_publishing_picture_of_himself
American women,
Hath not there stones in your city, like was in Troy?
Oh American women, Where is thy happiness and where is thy joy?
Sitting in the quiet garden with flowers in full bloom
What hath you to do but wait for your doom?
Hath not the stones in your city seen what happened all around?
Thy prophet only gives voice to thy stones, with two feet on the ground
Soon shall the curtains on your night life come down
Doom only comes, after three warnings sound.
Where your sinful ways reachth not, there shall your prophet dwell
Away from you and your caretaker, he watchth your misery swell
Heaven in your dreams but real life a hell
Doom only comes, after three rings to a bell.