The commissioner of the Philadelphia Police Department said on ABC’s “This Week” this morning that he didn’t think a theater patron carrying a gun during the Aurora massacre would have helped stop the killings.
“You had tear gas in there, and unfortunately, many states, and I don’t know about Colorado, but many states that authorize concealed carry have no provisions at all for people to receive training, marksmanship, proper handling of firearms, or whatever,” said Charles Ramsey. “So now you got two people randomly shooting in a movie theater. I don’t know how that helps.”
He acknowledged that gun control wouldn’t “totally stop this sort of thing from happening,” as James Holmes had a clean arrest record, but lamented that the attack was “just one incident where people are able to get their hands on firearms.”
“I don’t know why people need to have assault weapons,” Ramsey said. “There needs to be reasonable gun control put in place. And we talk about this constantly, and absolutely nothing happens, because many of our legislators, unfortunately, at the federal level, lack the courage to do anything.”
The commissioner said he wouldn’t ban all guns, as “most people are reasonable and legitimate gun owners.”
“But why not have registration, why not have mandatory recording of any sale or transfer of a firearm that’s done privately? Why not ban assault weapons and large capacity magazines?” Ramsey said. “I mean, we don’t need this stuff. And you have got to have serious consequences for people who commit crime using a handgun, and I mean very, very, stiff prison sentences.”
Has this idiot checked the gun laws already on the books?
Yeah. “Assault weapons” are weapons of war that can shoot multiple bullets with one press of the trigger. So this bureaucrat already got his way courtesy of 1934 Firearms Act and 1986 Gun Owners Act. Federal offense to buy a military assault weapon newer than 1986. Must pay $200 stamp tax, register with ATF, get approval by your sheriff, then pay 5 figures for a working pre-1986 model. Sounds like gun control to me.
I agree that he’s wrong- another liberal who thinks that nobody should have guns but them, or a cop (more likely) who thinks civilians should leave handling armed thugs to the pros- fine if they’re where they’re needed when they’re needed. An armed civilian could have been either an addition to the disaster or an end to it. Sorta depends on the civilian. If some ex-SEAL had been in the first few rows with a .45?
Might be a whole different story.
But you’re wrong too. You’re conflating “assault rifles” with automatic weapons. An assault weapon is something that can shoot a lot of , usually small caliber, bullets in a hurry. Think sub-machineguns, etc. A semi-auto can do that. The AK is essentially an assault weapon- could have had better ammo and accuracy, designers settled for lighter and more numerous rounds and rugged design for poorly trained troops. For my money, M16 is in similiar class, but requires better maintenance, which thank God this bozo wasn’t into. No telling how many lives that jammed weapon saved.
The Philly police chief is still wrong, most legally armed citizens wouldn’t have fired at random, but they’d have fired back if they could.
When seconds count, the police are only minutes away.
“But you’re wrong too. You’re conflating “assault rifles” with automatic weapons. An assault weapon is something that can shoot a lot of , usually small caliber, bullets in a hurry. Think sub-machineguns, etc. A semi-auto can do that. ”
No Dave, you’re wrong. Extremely wrong. And worse yet, you seem to have learned how to classify guns by reading the New York Times.
A submachinegun is a carbine capable of automatic fire that fires pistol-calibre cartridges. Well known examples are the MP5 and Uzi.
An assault rifle fires and intermediate cartridge (such as 5.56mm or 7.62x39mm) and is capable of firing in full auto or burst mode. Well known examples are the M16 / M4 family and the AK series guns.
The main thing that defines these guns is their rate of fire, which ALWAYS exceeds one round per trigger pull. Submachineguns and assault rifles have been all but completely prohibited for civilian ownership since the 1930′s.
Now, setting aside the fact that you feel comfortable correcting other people even though you have no idea what you’re talking about let me tell you where your ignorance becomes dangerous instead of simply amusing. When you define an assault weapon as something that can “shoot a large number of bullets in a short time” you’re describing every single modern firearm aside from bolt actions, lever actions and revolvers (and in the hands of a skilled shooter maybe even including those). That’s why Chuck Schumer loves the definition of assault rifle that you use. He knows that by appealing to ignorant people like you he can say “let’s ban assault weapons” while actually writing a law that bans almost all modern guns.
He’s right- to return fire you need to be able to see the shooter. Tear gas+darkness and confusion means anyone returning fire goes into a fog of war situation where the one assailant is nigh indistinguishable from the hundred or so bystanders. Concealed carry works in most situations, but this is one of the rare situations that gives an inherent terrain advantage to the assailant and returning fire is more likely to make the situation worse than to end it.
Obviously the shooter could see well enough to pick out and assault people inthe theater. With the movie probably still running there should have been enough light to pick out the SOB walking through the theater with a rifle in his hands shooting people. But the one thing I lament most is not that there wasn’t an armed CHL holder in the audience, but that there wasn’t a current or former spec-ops soldier in the audience. He would have had the training and experience to control the natural fight or flight adrenaline surge long enough to take this guy from behind and subdue him. I don’t blame any of the civilian theater goers for not doing this. If you have no experience in a combat situation, instinct to flee is a difficult hard wiring to overcome.
And upon what information do you base this erudite assumption?
Myth Buster, you are now named “Myth Maker”. Your “fog of war” must have been caused by your theosaurus. What a crock!
Maybe it’s just me, but I shoot at muzzle flashes.
Any weapon can be a assault weapon. That includes hammers, wives yelling at their husbands, and illegal aliens driving drunk.
Don’t play liberal language equivocation games. We all know what is generally ment by the term assault weapon. You’d rather face someone coming at you with a hammer than a drum loaded 100 round AR-15.
This is like liberals saying any murder is an act of terror because it’s terrifying.
“I don’t know why people need to have assault weapons”
but it’s fine if criminals and police have them?
This shows an appalling level of ignorance on the part of a person with a high level of influence. I’m sure Chief Ramsay is all for police having high capacity semi-autos even though most cops are inclined toward the “spray and pray” method.
True, given the nature of the circumstances, a person carrying a weapon would be at a disadvantage in the theater. However, the Philly chief’s comments are so wrong on the “randomly shooting” part. No, Mr. Police Chief. Only one person would be “randomly shooting”. The other person would be target shooting.
Perfectly stated CLM. Keep in mind Philly police chief needs to keep his constituents opinions out front. The majority of the up east yan er um citizens, think hunting rifles should be outlawed.
Only in the cities. Outside of the liberal urban enclaves, most people hunt or know people who do. I live outside Philly now, but I’m from rural PA, where we had off school for the first day of hunting season.
How did this moron get to be the commissioner of police in a large American city? Does he not realize that if an armed policeman had been on the scene, that would have meant “two people shooting” as well?
But along with being stupid, he’s also a thoroughgoing statist: Register all weapons! Compel reporting of all firearms transfers! Who needs “assault” weapons…as long as the police have them, of course! And crimes with a handgun are worse than other kinds…even if the gun is never fired, or never even loaded!
I pray he’s not representative of his office, but I fear that he is. And that bodes very, very ill for the future of freedom in these United States.
This from a idiot who is the Police Commissoner in a city where the homicide rate is skyrocketing. Right, Commish control those guns and crime will go down. How’s that working out in Chicago and New York which have strict gun control. How many shootings in Chicago so far this weekend? In the states which are relaxing conceal and carry laws the crime rates are going down but hey since when does real facts and common sense ever enter into the leftist/commmiecrats’ thinking.
Tell it to Mr. Williams down in Ocala. His shooting did not look to be random, but purposeful and effective.
Several eye witnesses have said they saw the nut job silhouetted against the screen. Would have been like shooting fish in a barrel. I could of taken this scum out from fifty feet. Crouched sown, seat back for a rest, he wouldn’t have known what him. Any decent shot could have put one right up his nostril.
Colorado in general is a lost cause. California of the Rockies.
Totally agree.
Yep, too many gubmint leeches moved there when it became apparent Cali is going down the tubes. Glad they don’t like Idaho.
Not all of Colorado is lost, just Denver and Boulder, other parts are solid red and very conservative.
The fact that the theater was a “gun-free zone” was absolutely a factor in being selected as a soft target, given the amount of preparation and pre-meditation involved in this tragedy.
They are “Gun-free zones” right up until they are shot full of holes.
Guns don’t kill people. Gun-free zones do.
Yeah, it’s odd how these things never seem to happen at gun shows, shooting ranges or hunting lodges. With all those guns around, and since we all know guns cause violence, it seems like those places should be clocking in a massacre every weekend.
I’m getting sick of hearing this. Yes, a CCH holder (or more) might not have been able to stop him. Perhaps they might have accidently hit another person. Perhaps not. I don’t know anyone sane can sit there and say allowing someone to fire unopposed is somehow going to produce a better outcome than another person at least trying to hit him. They guy hit 70+ people and you’re seriously trying to argue that a CCH trying to stop him might accidentally shoot someone?
Here we go again…..a maniac murders scores of innocent people and we have to ban guns to the law abiding citizenry. Remember Charles Whitman? Did we then ban deer rifles? All these liberals want is to get the camel’s nose under the tent so they can achieve their true goal of banning ALL firearms. Do not be fooled by these opportunistic scumbags who do not even have the decency to allow these victims’ families time to mourn before launching their selfish, partisan attacks on the second amendment.
Well said!
These folks are all posers. The calls for more registration, more intrusive background checks, etc., usually start with conceding that their proposals may not have prevented this atrocity. Why then do they continue to talk on the pretext of this atrocity, other than to opportunistically manipulate shocked people? See also Dave Kopel vs. The Brady Campaign online chat. He did a nice job. http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/story/2012-07-20/Colorado-shooting-guns-gun-control-Independence-Institute-Brady-Campaign/56371260/1
Registration has historically been used to make easier confiscation. It also has the added benefit of making into criminals those that don’t conform.
Let the movie theater be held liable for failure to provide adequate security and it will use more than just signs and declarations of gun-free zones to protect patrons from attack. Unfortunately, as with actions of other assholes and the consequences, it is the law abiding and innocent that will suffer a degradation in the quality of life due to the conduct of this one.
Now, what’s the method for execution used in Colorado we might expect to be used here in 4-12 years time?
Of course not. And this event never happened, either.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1361152/Woman-hailed-hero-stopping-gun-rampage-claims-church-banned-gay.html
So what? The article you linked to repeated her assertion that she was kicked out of the church and the pastor’s rejoinder that that’s not true, but even if her story is the correct one, and they were closed-minded enough to expel her, what has that to do with the central point of this argument? Gun control makes the world safer for police, because they’re the only ones who legally have guns; everyone else can be shot on sight, as a de facto lawbreaker because private ownership of guns will be illegal. The world is safer for police in this version of things, and safer for criminals, but more dangerous for everyone else. No one’s ever done a survey of criminals in prison as to whether they’re in favor of gun control, but my guess is that they’d be in favor by a large majority, especially if the question were phrased the right way.
The church’s point of view re homosexuality is a separate subject. I hope they weren’t this closed-minded, but if they were, it still isn’t to the point. It just makes them look unappreciative, and it’s a shame.
Someone else alreay said it- and it bears repeating.
Only one person would have been randomly shooting. He would have been the focal point for all other shots.
Two further points:
Many of us Veterans are actually fairly well able to handle CS and/or Tear Gas, because we were repeatedly exposed to it (Gas Chamber). I’d think some would function reasonably well in that environment, if hard-pressed to do so.
AND, rarely do the local or even large city police carry gas masks with them (or even have such available), so any officer entering the theater would be at precisely the same disadvantage as the hapless patrons. And being an Officer of the Law, they would be highly likely to draw and shoot at whatever they perceived as the shooter. So it is precisely the same – two people (or more) randomly shooting.
Here’s a question for the commish. What if an off duty police officer had been in that theater? Or better yet, what if he was there on vacation? As for non LEO’s with a permit, what if it was Jerry Mickluk or Dave Sevigny there that evening?
With all the “what ifs” one can think up, it seems to me that the odds are better if more people had guns.
Greetings:
Too bad no one asked the Chief about the geezer with a heater who recently went after those two Trayvon Martin clones and appropriately perforated them in an internet cafe down in Ocala, Florida.
Remember the Comish is in reality a politician in a lefty hell-hole…not a cop (constable on patrol)….
Party line y’ know…..
I agree with your comment, but I have to point out that “cop = constable on patrol” is a false acronym. To “cop” something means to grab it; a “copper” (policeman) is someone who “cops” a malefactor.
All supposed acronyms, such as “cop,” which date from before WWII are false.
Sure tip-off that a liberal (like Charles Ramsey) is lying about their intentions:
If they use the word “reasonable” in a sentence, they’re lying.
No wonder crime is so high in Philly. The city government is staffed with ignoramuses. I bet I shoot better than 85% of Philly cops. And I did survive the tear gas chamber in boot. A competent person CCW could have handled this coward. The Chief needs to be retired.
And do you think this psycho would have been so bold if he knew there was a good chance his potential victims were packin’? Hell no, that’s why he wore body armor. He didn’t want to get killed, he just wanted to become famous. And the sleazy news media in this country is going to give him exactly what he wants. He should be executed within 30 days after his conviction. There really is no doubt it was him that murdered all those people, is there?
Devildogger: You are being modest. I have forty years in Federal and local law enforcement and you probably shoot better than 92% of LEO’s.
My range experience with local LEO’s is scary.
The “Chief” is an advocate of the law enforcement tactic of – “when seconds count, and police are minutes away – “. Face it America, you are on your own.
Just goes to illustrate that you do not have to be real bright to be a “top cop”. (Not intended to disparage the intelligence of ALL police officers).
Is there even any proof that it was indeed tear gas (CS) and not just a smoke bomb? Or is he just buying into another false media meme about this story, like the “body armor” one (see earlier Tatler piece “No Body Armor for Aurora Theater Shooter”)
Theater-goers NOT incapacitated by tear (cs) gas as the media originally claimed and a perp NOT wearing “full body armor” as the media originally claimed would stand a better chance of taking out this guy than would have been the case if the things the media had been claiming were actually true.
Everyone saying “an armed theater-goer would have stood a chance” are basing that on what the MEDIA told them, which appears to have been exaggerated.
Also, isn’t Philly where the armed Black Panther thugs were allowed to intimidate voters in front of polling places during the 2008 presidential election? Just asking.
I am so sick of these “Why do they need weapons of war” morons. If the perp had used a sawed off shotgun it would have really been a blood bath. Using 00 buckshot with a short barrel the carnage would have been unbelievable. But hey, they don’t want to take away the “Hunting” guns, only the weapons of war. The shotgun was outlawed under the Geneva Convention because it was such a horrible weapon against humans. Can any one be so stupid to say that if there had been someone in the movie with a gun that the outcome would have been worse? If you were the perp and thought you had fish in a barrel and the fish started to shoot back what do you think the perp would have done? Most likely run or at least hide behind something. After a few shots in his direction he would have realized that this is not what he planned and GTF out of there.
Oh Lovely. Another “Citizens are too incompetent to use guns” moron.
Fact: About 11% of police shootings kill an innocent person – about 2% of shootings by citizens kill an innocent person.
Chief is kissing the butt of his Democratic, gun-hatin’ mayor.
The media’s definition of an “assault weapon” is an amorphous and almost comic one. An “assault weapon” is one (usually a rifle) which looks really mean and dangerous and which is painted army green or camouflage green.
The simple fact is that the basic design of an “assault weapon” and, say, a deer hunting rifle is the same. (Gun owners realize I am not talking about bolt action or lever action rifles. Firearm phobic people simply have no clue.) The only distinction which matters is whether a rifle is fully automatic or semi-automatic. A fully automatic rifle or pistol fires numerous bullets with one pull of the trigger. Bullets are fired as long as the trigger is pulled and to the extent to how many bullets are contained in the magazine. (Think machine gun.) A semi-automatic shoots one bullet for each single, and deliberate, pull of the trigger. It also is limited by the number of cartridges in the magazine.
Mass murderers with firearms go where they know they are unlikely to meet any sort of armed resistance. Where might that be? Schools, shopping centers, theaters—-anywhere there is likely to be few police officers or armed citizens. The best place to not be met with armed resistance by law abiding citizens is any place where the following sign is prominently posted: Firearms are banned from these premises.
When will the MSM stop putting these ass-clown Chiefs of Police on the air, and let them pontificate as “experts”. No one rises through the ranks, in the Chicago POlice Department based on merit. It’s based on ass kissing and staying out of political trouble.
This clown, Ramsey, was chief of police in Washington, DC, Philadelphia, and was in the running for Superintendant job in Chicago.
He is an anti-gun politician.