In reporting for Our School, my book on a college-prep charter school in San Jose, I met many kids who’d come from Mexico as young children without papers. They were working hard to qualify for college, but couldn’t work legally once they earned a degree. (The illegal students, who didn’t qualify for state or federal aid, were more likely to earn a bachelor’s degree in four years than their classmates who were citizens. They couldn’t afford to go slow.)
Some of the female college graduates took under-the-table jobs as nannies; one male graduate was working as a waiter. Some are on long waiting lists; other have achieved legal status through marriage.
The DREAM Act promised a path to legalization for young immigrants who’d graduated from U.S. high schools and completed two years of college or military service. I wasn’t surprised that it didn’t pass. When unemployment is high, illegal immigrants are very unpopular.
I think there’s a way to revive the Dream Act in 2011: Link citizenship only to military service, which Americans see as a sacrifice, dropping the link to college attendance, which most see as a subsidized benefit to the individual.
Two years of college enrollment, with no degree required, doesn’t guarantee a productive citizen. Anyone can enroll in community college, if only to take remedial classes. (Only 22 percent of full-time students earn a two-year degree in three years.) It’s much harder to qualify for the military.
As veterans, the newly legalized could use their GI benefits to pursue a college degree. I think most Americans would be happy to welcome them to citizenship.
What a great idea! Maybe we could link all citizenship to military service…..it sounds like a novel and compelling concept.
Oh, wait, Starship Troopers was copyrighted in 1959…..
Actually, Ive come to support the idea that fours years of active duty (or eight years of Guard/Reserve) time should be a qualifier to vote.
If you care more about yourself than voting, then dont join. Get that job or degree and get to work. No problem.
BTW, I am a vet.
it if the government wanted to enforce the laws regarding hiring illegal immigrants they could. they don’t because business prefers them not to. there is an de-facto acceptance of the presence of illegals. the refusal to give them legal status constitutes exploitation.
either enforce the laws against employing illegal immigrants or make the immigrants legal – leaving them in limbo is immoral and exploitative
people are going to do what people do. if government policy, explicit or implicit, leads to human exploitation than policy should be changed.
if you condone illegal behavior by rewarding it you are complicit in the crime – anyone who thinks the illegals have no one to blame but themselves is ignoring the complicity of the us governemnt.
It sounds nice Ms. Jacobs, but I fear all it would do is to weaken the military. If this was to be put into place I’m sure immediate efforts would be made to create categories of the military who would be absolved of actually having to go into combat or even combat zones, as well as lowering the standards for what would qualify as an honorable discharge. As the saying goes, the road to Hell is paved with good intentions.
We need to look after our own people first, first and always, and to Hell with everyone else no matter how attractive an individual poster child may be. After all, they’re just posters, and very rarely do they reflect actual reality.
I think the risk you cite is low, provided it is clear that the illegals are accepted only if they meet all other military standards, other than legal status. The military has a pretty good record of turning people who otherwise might fail in our society, into first good soldiers, and then good citizens. The military has a vested interest in maintaining high standards, unlike other fed service, because they know their lives depend on the person beside them, and has been pretty good at resisting attempts at lowering standards because of political pressure.
Ms. Jacobs, what part of ‘illegal alien’ don’t you understand?
2. dklryegwf273
it if the government wanted to enforce the laws regarding hiring illegal immigrants they could. they don’t because business prefers them not to. there is an de-facto acceptance of the presence of illegals.
You got that part right. The other side of the coin is that the American Left see them as clients of the welfare state and voters for the champions of the Welfare State. Illegal aliens cost us much more economically than they contribute.
Whenever the Left and the Right segments of the current Political Class agree on something it usually means the common people who work for a living are going to get royally screwed. The illegal immigration issue is a very good example of this.
And by the way–the idea that the illegal aliens are being exploited is ludicrous. All they have to do to escape it is go back to the wonderful virtuous third world paradises from which they came where they are much more into tune with nature and away from the evil White Man’s culture. (sarcasm ends)
Wonderful idea, Ms. Jacobs! Let’s forgive criminal behavior if they join the military!
Tell me, will other crimes be forgiven as easily? Will, say, burglars be allowed to serve time in the armed forces to get out of their sentence? How about people found guilty of assault and battery? Rapists? Murderers? Where do we draw the line?
Or, if you want to argue that illegal entry into the country is a non-violent crime, will embezzlers be allowed to serve their way out of a conviction? Maybe even Bernie Madoff could serve in the armed forces to get out of his sentence.
Or are you only interested in pandering to one particular criminal group?
In the WW2 era, what you suggest, as a crazy idea, forgiving crimes in exchange for joining the military, happened quite often. A judge would frequently agree to suspend the sentence for some petty criminal, if he would agree to join the military. Many of these miscreants ended up making pretty good soldiers.
I think this is a good idea. The military has a way of changing the people that join it for the better, and making them pretty good citizens. And earning citizenship in exchange for difficult service is a good value for value trade. I also trust the military to not devalue standards to game the system, since they have to potentially fight beside anybody they let in, while I do not trust colleges to do the same. It would also tend to produce politically conservative citizens, unlike the college part of the dream act.
I do agree with comment 22, that 2 yrs service might be better. That makes it a more difficult sacrifice, and provides more years for the service to inculcate them with american values.
Minor edit, in the last para I meant to agree with 4 yrs, not 2.
I’d argue that children brought here by their parents are not guilty of “criminal behavior.”
The ones who’d qualify for military service — high school graduates with clean records — will make good Americans.
blockquoteThe ones who’d qualify for military service — high school graduates with clean records — will make good Americans./blockquote
Fine. Let them go back to their country of origin then enter the blegal/b way… if theyre really the type that will make good Americans.
After all, the kind of young people that will make good Americans would want to do it by the book, to avoid any possible problems later on, right?
One of the worst deceptions in this Orwellian named “DREAM Act” is based on this feel good proposition that it isn’t the kids’ fault that their parents brought them here illegally. We have to do this for the children, don’t you see?
But one of the key provisions of this act is that once the child is declared eligible for it, what’s the first thing they can do? You guessed it, they can sponsor their law-breaking parents for citizenship, you know, the ones who came here illegally and dragged poor innocent little Juanny with them. They can also sponsor their grandparents and any siblings, either here or still in Mexico.
So it’s backdoor amnesty for ALL the Insufficiently Documented Future Democratic Voters of America.
I have made the same suggestion here on a number of occasions over the last year. Only satisfactory completion of military service will suffice to qualify for citizenship, not college. The service will teach them love of country, honor, discipline, physical fitness, and lots of other qualities that will make them fine additions to America and their own immigrant communities.
But nix on automatic qualification for citizenship for parents. Let them go back to Mexico for a period of time first, after which they might qualify for fast-tracking.
But college? What will they learn there – how to binge drink and catch STDs, while being told that they are oppressed by the greedy capitalist-roaders in this racist, sexist homophobic nation founded by slave-owning DWEMs (Dead White European Males)?
What commenters here forget that being here illegally, that is without a visa or permanent residency status is not in of itself a felony. All it means here is that you have not been given the right to be here. You are subject to deportation not imprisonment. So those kids are not felons for being here, they are simply here without permission. So giving them the opportunity to serve in the military (provided they are otherwise qualified to serve) isnt filling the armed forces with criminal rejects but rather a fair way out of this problem.
Should Congress make it a felony to here illegally? That may or may not be a good idea but it is not the present law. Funny thing is why people on welfare can never find work but illegal aliens can find jobs. In the meantime policing the borders would be a great place to start in stemming the numbers of illegal aliens.
Apparently, illegal immigration in and of itself is not a felony (apparently only a misdemeanor), though it is still a crime. But several activities related to immigration without visa or proper legal documentation does cross the line into felonies. Fake IDs (document forgery) and stealing Social Security Numbers (AKA identity theft) are felonies, and are often performed by illegal aliens for other purposes (such as employment or getting government services).
As far as the welfare, there’s a reason some nickname it a safety hammock. But it doesn’t help that someone working here against the stated laws of our land are also breaking other laws. Nor does it help that businesses are also employing illegal aliens, often under-the-table where they can pay below minimum wage and not pay taxes and other employment-related costs. How can someone compete for a job when you cost more, and are legally unable to accept anything less?
i7. Joanne Jacobs
I’d argue that children brought here by their parents are not guilty of “criminal behavior.” /i
No, they are not. But when and if they get to the age of legal adulthood and know that they are not a US citizen it does indeed become criminal behavior.
Thanks to the economy, the military services are having no trouble meeting enlistment numbers.
What do we do, create new Army divisions and fill them with DREAM candidates?
What about those who flunk the physical/intelligence testing/psychological testing?
so is there still possibility for the DREAM ACT 2B passed ?
could i join the army now and later try 2 get my status fixed like with wait for the result of the dream act like i want 2 go but im scare 2 get deported to my country ?
could my own brother get me fix cuz he was born here or
if i get married with my girlfriend can she fix me ?
plz help with my ???s
Yeah, the college requirement was way weak. The military requirement should be more rigorous, too, that the illegal immigrant should serve in a combat MOS and at least make sergeant.
Using the military for social engineering is a bad idea and detracts from its mission. The only people we want in the military are those who want to fight and win wars.
Adults who were brought here as illegal alien children are guilty of criminal behavior. They are perfectly free to take the education that they got in America, go back to their (or their parents) country of origin, and re-enter the US through the front door. If they can’t get back in then they could stay in their country of origin and work to make it not suck so bad that everyone’s trying to leave.
I checked with Gibbon and he said this will lead to the Goths sacking Rome.
Let’s staff our armed services with people who have no real loyalty to this country… and, to make it even better, let’s give them weapons training too!
What a totally groovy idea.
The only thing that would make this any better would be if they were criminals… oh wait.
“Anyone can enroll in community college, if only to take remedial classes.”
Unfortunately, that would be a step UP in many cases. Here in South Texas, we see far too many students in community college and university who enroll just to soak up Pell Grants for a couple of semesters, with no intention of completing their courses, let alone learn anything or–Heaven forbid!–graduating.
The DREAM act would have been a disaster for our university system. The university system was nearly destroyed in the 1960s and 1970s when Congress made the “compassionate” decision to allow draft deferments for college students. As an unintended consequence, this turned colleges and universities into sanctuaries for draft avoidance. This made college students easy targets for leftist radicals, who succeeded in politicizing a generation of students whose lives were literally on the line. It also created a generation of students who received their degree not because of their academic achievement, but because their professors were loathe to flunk anyone, lest they bear the moral responsibility of sending them off to Vietnam.
That generation of underachieving, politicized early 1970s students majoring in draft avoidance then became the university faculty of the 1980s-2000s, and made the university system into the leftist cesspool it is today.
It would be even worse to extend the DREAM act to the military.
Every soldier, from the time they enlist until the time they are discharged, costs the United States hundreds of thousands of dollars in food, housing, training, salary and the cost of the equipment used in their training. It would be an enormously expensive way to process green cards.
It would also put us in the incredibly dangerous position of building an army of foreigners, mostly Mexicans who would hold divided loyalties between the United States and Mexico.
Fortunately with the arrival of a Republican Congress, I think we’ve seen the end of the DREAM act for a generation.
So you want a foreign mercenary army? You want to select on the type of people who don’t mind killing? What’s to stop a bunch of violent Islamics from joining the military so they have training for their quite halal anti-freedom aspirations?
The military already has standards to reject applicants if they may have security problems. Anybody with ties to violent Islamic groups could, and should, be rejected for that reason.
And if these soldiers are to become citizens, they are not mercenaries, but will have reason to be loyal to their new nation.
This is what I’ve been saying for years. Allow immigrates in that will do 4 yrs in the Military, or 6 yrs in a “Civil Service”. The Civil Service would be things such as disaster response (Fire-fighting, cleaning up after hurricanes, floods, etc.) Also maintenance of national parks, US highways and such things. They would be based at old mothballed military facilities renovated (by the immgrants) for their use. Commit no felonies or serious misdemeanours. After first 2 yrs immediate family (spouse and kids) can come in also. Require classes in various subjects and require english to be used when on the job.
RT…super SWELL idea….let’s put all these folks on the Gub’mint payroll and support them while they do various “feel-good” public service works…..support them fully for 4 to 6 years under your plan (food, lodging, clothes, spending money…)with a graduated back-door amnesty for their family to create MORE dependency on the Gub’mint..
If you think fighting forest fires is ““feel-good” public service work” then I suggest you give it a whirl and then let us know how that worked out.
Military yes, civil service no. The military has firm standards, and requires real sacrifice. Your civil service idea could be perverted into another make work WPA for illegals.
I believe such a program already exists. My son is in the US Army and he has guys from Canada, Ireland, Ethiopia, Mexico and Russia in his unit. And they will all have their citizenship after they complete their military assignments.
The MAJOR difference being the guys in your son’s unit ARE NOT IN THIS COUNTRY ILLEGALLY!!!! But other than that…
I think shifty is right, in that the examples you cite were not here illegally, but I dont mind extending the benefit to illegals, provided the military still has complete control over standards, and the service committment should be 4 yrs, not 2, so the military can get some real use out of them after they are trained.
I strongly disagree with this idea, for all of the reasons listed by the other commenters above. As the wife of a soldier, I don’t want him to serve with people who are just biding their time in order to get the reward of citizenship. Joining the military is a commitment, not only to yourself and your country, but to those who serve with you. Service members have to be able to trust the character and dedication to the mission of their fellow enlisted. The DREAM act would be a nightmare for military strength and morale.
Many people end up joining the military because they cant find a job elsewhere, and want the college bennies, but still end up being pretty good soldiers. The key is the military should only have to take them if they meet all the militaries standards, and the military beleives they can become good soldiers.
The military has long been a vehicle for providing upward mobility to the lower segments in society. They do a pretty good job, and end up produce some pretty solid citizens.
That’s what I’ve been saying, too. Unless you are at an Ivy League, you can join ROTC right away!
Of course, liberals will view this suggestions as a horror.
Two years of military service would be virtually a gift.
First, with but two years of service, the military would get virtually no use from them. Following basic training and then advanced training what you have is a minimally trained soldier who now has less than two years left to become more learned and useful. And, we pay him for that? If he has family, do we also than provide all the usual benefits of citizens, like food stamps, SSI, WIC, etc?
Should we give someone the prize of citizenship for so little? Is it that worthless?
Also, someone suggested that a requirement should be that they reach the rank of sergeant. That rank is not going to happen in only two years. Further, who’d WANT a service that creates NCOs with such a meager bank of experience? NCOs are the nuts and bolts of teh service, the people who know how and what to do.
So, IF we were to make military service a qualification for legalization, it should be for at least a minimum of 4 years. Heck, the Romans used the system, but, they required 16-20 years service.
In short, don’t let yourself be conned into using the template that was offered in the ‘Dream Act’, that of TWO YEARS for whatever. Your actually doing exactly what they hope for- selling citizenship for glass beads.
Agree that 4 yrs is better. Since they would be getting an additional bennie, citizenship, that other recruits dont get, it would be reasonable to require a longer committment.
IIRC legal immigrants need three years of service to be eligible for citizenship. Why should the illegals get an easier track than those who followed the rules?
Didnt know that, another good reason for requiring 4 yrs. So legal immigrants get citizenship by 3 yr committment, adding 1 more year for illegals is pretty reasonable.
MALDEF runs a program TODAY to allow these kids (non-citizens, brought her at a young age by parents, without papers) to enlist – they figure virtually anyone can be a cook, for example. Non-citizens generally qualify for US citzenship after ONE day during wartime, which includes any service after 9/11. DHS has (finally) gotten their act together to allow servicemembers to become citizens. See Section 329 of the IN Act.
More info here: http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.eb1d4c2a3e5b9ac89243c6a7543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=ce613e4d77d73210VgnVCM100000082ca60aRCRD&vgnextchannel=ce613e4d77d73210VgnVCM100000082ca60aRCRD
Form the AFL … American Foreign Legion … open to qualified foreigners and Americans with a criminal record. A minimum of four years … low pay … All must serve in combat arms.
Put them in harm’s way first … It has worked out pretty well for the French.
One need not be a US citizen to join the US Army, although getting a security clearance for certain jobs *could* be an issue.
There’s merit to this idea. It may not be entirely fleshed out, but there’s no need to reject it out of hand.