Did Barack Obama want to assassinate Osama bin Laden? He may have at some point, because he gave the ultimate order, or allowed it to happen. But I suspect the president was deeply ambivalent.
It’s not just his postmodern worldview that suggests this reluctance. It is the discombobulated aftermath of the killing, the weirdly botched reportage featuring such events as cabinet members in the situation room supposedly watching a (we learned) non-existent streaming video of the action and the statement that bin Laden — who had been under surveillance for months from a CIA safe house — was living in a million dollar mansion.
That was dialed down within a day or two to $250,000 and then revealed, in videos, to be close to a slum. In fact, OBL’s squalid living conditions made the hated Guantanamo seem like the Four Seasons. If the SEALs had taken him alive, it would have been an upgrade.
Indeed, it was those SEALs that were the only ones who performed their part with professionalism. Everything else seemed ad hoc, as if thrown together at the last moment after, one guesses, various parties finally convinced, or even forced, the president to act. There was no preparation for the aftermath, no apparent plan of how to inform or not inform the public of this cataclysmic event when such a decision was in many ways as important as the action itself. What resulted was an embarrassing blabbermouth display of public contradiction. Some of this can be justified by the fog of war, but not to the extent we saw. Something more was at work and I think it was a reluctant president.
(Compare the aftermath of this enterprise to last year’s putative Mossad assassination of an Hamas leader in Dubai. The Israelis were absolutely silent, as they almost always are, about their actions. Could the US have done the same about the bin Laden assassination? Not entirely. The conditions are different. But a certain amount of judicious silence until the facts were known would have been a vast improvement. )
Still, Osama is dead. Huzzah.
And we get to see something of who or what he was. It’s a strange case. On one level his absurdly bad dye job on several of the videos — not to mention the one with the now grey-bearded Al Qaeda chieftain channel-surfing himself on television — is hysterically funny. It makes him look like some cheesy huckster from the far reaches of the cable listings.
On another level, however, the videos are blood-curdling, revealing a bizarre sociopath lost in his own weird narcissistic world.
Bin Laden was an odd bird indeed, but odd in the sense that serial killers and mass murderers are odd, trapped in their own paranoid universes, not unlike Charles Manson, who lived under similar conditions at the Spahn Ranch.
And just like Manson, Osama was able to attract acolytes. Unfortunately, however, in the case of the Saudi, those acolytes were exponentially more powerful and numerous, including, evidently, a significant portion of the Pakistani intelligence service and military. Indeed, he still undoubtedly has millions, even hundreds of millions of acolytes.
During the 2008 election campaign, Obama emphasized clearly that he would remove the troops from Iraq and refocus his attentions on Afghanistan & Pakistan because that is where Osama Bin Laden actually is. During his presidency now, he did that. He also mentioned that if he has Osama Bin Laden in his sights, he would not hesitate to make that call to capture or kill Osama Bin Laden. During his presidency now, he did that. Not only did he do it, he chose a surgical strike with the Navy’s SEAL Team Six rather than just dropping missiles on the compound, which was suggested by half of his tactical team who wanted him to drop the missiles. The other half thought he should wait on this and gather more evidence. He waived both of those options and chose to use the “scalpel” with the Navy’s SEAL Team Six that he campaigned on in regards to Al Qaida. He risked his entire presidency on this moment and it was a complete success. For people of Pajamas Media and posters in this forum, don’t take this away from him because in the end, the facts will stand in history.
Interesting take. I would think it is absolutely reverse – that Obama would be risking his presidency by NOT taking out bin Laden. Different strokes, as they say.
Andy, what you don’t realize is that Osama Bin Laden had already forged a plan beforehand that if he was caught, he would not be taken alive. He would resist at any cost and be killed rather than be taken alive by the infidels, in his own words. His ultimate goal was to become a martyr if caught. We did not allow him that satisfaction by giving him a burial on land to make it a shrine and we did not release his death photos so that it could be used to make him a martyr or be used as propaganda by Al Qaida.
And you know this how?
Douglas, am I the very last person in this country that does my own research before forming a conclusion? Please tell me that I am not the last of a dying breed. There is this vast window of information called Google and books where you can read and even look at all the opposing views before you form your own conclusion.
Also, I find that political affiliations enslave people of this country. Go get your own facts and vote for the right candidate, regardless of party. Then defend the person who you truly think is doing right, in the eyes of God. News Medias tend to divert people’s minds to fit their own agendas.
Douglas, am I the very last person in this country that does my own research before forming a conclusion?-Dave
No, because you didn’t do the research to discover that Mr. “would not hesitate to make that call to capture or kill Osama Bin Laden” Obama had the intel and was asked to make that call then he slept on it before acting.
Try again.
Dave,
“Douglas, am I the very last person in this country that does my own research before forming a conclusion? Please tell me that I am not the last of a dying breed. There is this vast window of information called Google and books where you can read and even look at all the opposing views before you form your own conclusion.”
People who do their own research before forming their conclusion don’t hesitate to show their work when asked for evidence. Just so you know.
Dave, you’re obviously very smart. Much smarter than Andy and the rest of the people who leave comments on posts at Pajamas Media. Better yet, it’s clear that you’re also very much “in-the-know.” Andy doesn’t realize that Usama Bin Laden had a secret plan to die a martyr’s death, rather than be taken alive by infidels. President Obama deftly foiled by having him killed in a firefight with infidels. Andy is helplessly outgunned here, as he’s not privy to the private papers of one Usama Bin Laden. But you’ve apparently got the ol’ 411 on Usama’s contingency strategies. Hope you shared your inside info with the proper authorities. Such information would likely have been of use to Vice Admiral McRaven and his staff when they were plotting the Bin Laden operation. Anyhoo, like you say, President Obama denied Bin Laden the satisfaction of becoming a martyr by having him killed with surgical precision, or killed with a surgical scalpel, or killed by surgeons, or something.
That’s why President Obama calls his foreign policy smart diplomacy, or smart force, or smart power, or smart ass-kickin’, or smart smartness, or whatever.
Takeaway: Obama is awesome, of course!
Well, T.S., I googled it and bin Laden was killed by sturgeons . . . or seals . . . or something . . .
There are plenty of stories about Bin Laden telling people around him to shoot him rather than being taken alive. Why bother people for what you haven’t read?
They may not be true but they’re not exactly far-fetched science-fiction either.
For all we know on of Bin Laden’s people shot him.
Google – Bin Laden Vows Never to Be Captured Alive.
There are many stories by reputable news agencies dating back to 2006. But here are the most critical news along with his video dating back to February 2006 when his first announced this. Take a look.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11452123/ns/world_news-terrorism/
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/feb/21/alqaida.terrorism
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/1511077/Bin-Laden-vows-to-fight-long-war-and-not-be-taken-alive.html
T. S., This cartoon is absolutely priceless. Whoever wrote the script should win an award. Wish there were a transcript available. Thank you so much for posting it!
http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/comment/594059/ Dave wrote, “Douglas, am I the very last person in this country that does my own research before forming a conclusion?”
Dave, the point is that YOU made a statement, so YOU back it up. It’s not up to us to prove or disprove your statement. It’s up to YOU. And if you don’t supply the proof, your statement is no better than anyone else’s.
Andy, you got it right, Dave has it butt backwards.
There is COMPELLING evidence that Obama was dragged from the golf course to ‘approve’ this hit. In fact, if NOT for Panetta (and a few others in charge)there would be NO hit.
For edification, go to – http://www.patdollard.com/2011/05/obama-hesitated—panetta-issued-order-to-kill-osama-bin-laden/
This is just one of a few highly credible renditions of the same set of facts. Dollars to donuts, the font of info most likely came from Hill, then ‘leaked’ by Bill….
Sorry, Dave, one cannot make an American hero out of a sow’s ear, regardless of his previous posturing.After all, Obama has prevaricated so many times on MAJOR issues that it makes one swoon with disinformation-will the REAL Obama stand up?Alas, nobody knows….
Disliking Obama is one thing, going off into fairy wizard land is another.
Being positive about things you don’t know only tells us what we already knew – you don’t like Obama.
You could’ve murmured as much in your garage and achieved much the same effect.
Employing the use of the phrase “fairy wizard land” to attack a critic of The Chocolate Jesus. That’s some fine projection right there!
ME Information Content Managers like you just really despise proud Jews like Adina, right, James May?
You see anti-semitism in your soup you cultural supremacist bigot.
Sorry, is that code?
“Fairy wizard land” is Obamaland.
He’s half chocolate.
page missing or moved
John Corn….and so it goes-down the memory hole!!
Perhaps an advanced google, other search engine will come up with it.In any case, Dollard’s source is solid and his evidence is compelling.By the way, it had been up for day’s and NO one attempted to refute it, or, to scream libel.Obviously the Obama saboteurs have a way of making the truth just disappear.
Your Link goes nowhere. Since it seems you are pulling your ideas from thin air, I guess it makes sense. You could try a link that actually goes a source. here http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/10/world/asia/10intel.html?_r=1&hp
This article makes it clear that Obama was hands on the whole time, and even increased the number of soldiers being sent in, on the chance they would have to fight their way out of Pakistan. These are not the actions of someone who hesitates. Also, can someone remind me who reassembled the CIA task force for finding Osama? Wait I know this one, it was OBAMA. You do not have to like his policies, but you should give credit where credit is due, unless that is something you are incapable of.
Well, if the New York Times says so, it has to be. We all know they are completely unbiased [sic].
BTW, that doesn’t mean they are always wrong. That just means everything they say must be analyzed through the most obvious pro-Obama filter.
For all the people in this thread that are questioning the current administration’s ambivalence. You can clearly read and compare the decision points between Tora Bora vs Abbottabad. I hope this will help.
Google – Tora Bora vs Abbottabad.
I have also included a link below to accomodate all the objective thinkers in this forum.
http://www.pkarticleshub.com/2011/05/05/decision-points-tora-bora-vs-abbottabad/
Did Obama really make the decision to get Bid Laden??? Read the following link and then you decide….
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2011/05/skulking-towards-bin-laden-obama-overridden-by-military-and-intel-officials-in-takeout-of-obl.html
Whatisthetruth-thanks for linking.This is the same version of events I was referring to in my post which just ‘disappeared’ from the web.Guess this one will soon meet its maker, but until then, all thinking people should digest its implications. It ain’t PC pretty, but it is as close to the truth we’re going to get.
i have seen similar articles
i definitely think there is some kind of power play going on and there are several competing factions and thank god there is some good ole’ competition going on in this country at some level
there is more to this switcharoo with patreaus and panetta with the dod and cia
the death of bin laden should have been much more of a slam dunk for obama but the way it has been botched is very suspicious
i think the clothes could get blown off this emperor with the next big item that hits
maybe glenn beck could fix his a.d.d. and eyes (when they’re working) on valerie jarrett ala van jones for a while; there has been NOTHING of her for at least a year
interesting times; would be a popcorn worthy period in american history if we weren’t actually LIVING THROUGH THEM!
I believe it’s the law
National Security Act of 1947
Sec. 504
(c) No funds appropriated for, or otherwise available to, any
department, agency, or entity of the United States Government
may be expended, or may be directed to be expended, for any covert
action, as defined in section 503(e), unless and until a Presidential
finding required by subsection (a) of section 503 has been signed
or otherwise issued in accordance with that subsection.
Source:
http://intelligence.senate.gov/nsaact1947.pdf
Do you really think the American public would hold it against Obama for going after a high value target in Pakistan if the covert op failed? I doubt it. That is a dem talking point.
Steve, in light of the Tea Party, Birthers, and now Deathers movement, my answer to you is a definite “yes”. The far right will have him for breakfast, lunch, and dinner served on a silver platter. So he did in fact took a tremendous risk to his presidency knowing fully that a million things could’ve gone wrong, not only with the mission but the backlash from the Tea Party, Birthers, and international community afterwards if it was a disaster.
I think you are listening to the self-serving (dem favoring) logic of the MSM. This op was part of an ongoing war (10 years) that under Obama includes drone attacks on militants inside Pakistan. I would guess close to 1000 US military personnel have died in Afghanistan since Obama took office. It is different than when Jimmy Carter sat on his hands for a year, then made a one-time failed attempt to free the US hostages in Iran.
Let me take it even one step further to say that his order for this mission, which led to the killing of Osama Bin Laden, is even questioned as a political motive to preserve his presidency (see Andy Rigrod above), even though it was a total success. On top of that, inconsistent accounts reported by his administration in the aftermath are also being questioned on whether he was reluctant to be decisive about this mission. It’s the biggest example of a case of you’re damned if you do and you’re damned if you don’t. It’s apparent that this administration cannot win against its detractors at any cost.
Goodness gracious me. What a load of self righteous hokum.
It is clearly in line with repairing his image to begin to make him re-electable in 2012.
And I hardly had to do any research to come to that self-evident conclusion.
In fact it flashed before my eyes as I heard the news.
John, let me ask you one simple question – did his image ever had a chance with you from the very start?
By the way, I also defended Reagan in his 2 terms against the far left because I believe and still believe from facts that Reagan did good for this country. Free yourself from party affiliations and choose right over wrong, good over bad, truth over lies, and believe it or not, your life will be lifted beyond the burdens of this country.
“…It’s the biggest example of a case of you’re damned if you do and you’re damned if you don’t. It’s apparent that this administration cannot win against its detractors at any cost.”
Dave, were you around for the Bush administration? If you were it appears that you have no memory of it.
With a free media the facts would emerge. However with the Obamamedia, with which we must contend, the facts will not be reported if they are inconvenient. So Dave, rather than your hagiography, let’s try to get at the facts.
1. Did the CIA know where OBL was for 9 months? If so, why did it take 9 months to act?
2. Did Obama dither for 16 hours before the final order was given?
3. Did Panetta give the final order because Obama wouldn’t.
4. Did they really read that gawd awful crap posted by Roger over the corpse of this psychopath?
5. Was an unarmed OBL killed because taking him to Gitmo would destroy the clueless Obama-Holder justice narrative.
6. Is the reason there are so many versions of what happened from this White House because the truth would damage Obama?
7. Are you naive or on the payroll?
Palin 2012.
Obama was forced into another untenable position as President of the United States of America. God Bless America!
Yoikes!
Dave-the-Dem say: “Not only did he[Obama] do it[give the order to get OBL], he chose a surgical strike with the Navy’s SEAL Team Six rather than just dropping missiles on the compound, which was suggested by half of his tactical team who wanted him to drop the missiles.”
Obama orders drone strikes every day. (Guess the SEALs are too busy.) Some of the strikes are surgical, some of them hit the wrong targets. Oops. Dave, your claim that Obama is super-surgical is crap. Such is war.
Dave, I completely agree! You should post this as a policy proposal on http://www.whitehousevoice.com
I have proved my point clearly that most people in this country do not do their research before forming their own conclusions. Doing one’s own research means reading all opposing information from both sides, like a judge listening to opposing views from both sides, and then deciphering fact from fiction. Believing in everything you read on one-sided blogospheres with their own speculations, conspiracy theories, or urban legends are NOT and I repeat NOT doing one’s own research. It only means that one is trying to get justification for one’s own beliefs or prejudices. Try looking at information from opposing side and deciphering fact from fiction, then you’ll realize that it’s like a new awareness has opened up in your lives. You will realize that you have transcended beyond fiction and speculations.
Completely agree! You should post this as a policy proposal on http://www.whitehousevoice.com
Like I have always said in my previous posts – WE THE PEOPLE ARE THE JUDGE, JURY, AND EXECUTIONER OF OUR OWN TIME. WE CREATE THIS TIME AND ERA THAT WE ARE LIVING IN, WHETHER GOOD OR BAD.
We should be the Freedom Party, the party that base its conclusions on facts, rather than be enslaved to one party or the other. Pick the right candidate base on facts and for the good of America’s future, not be tied down or based on party affiliations. This is true American freedom.
“Obama emphasized clearly that he would remove the troops from Iraq and refocus his attentions on Afghanistan & Pakistan because that is where Osama Bin Laden actually is. During his presidency now, he did that.”
No Dave…no he didn’t. He has been following the timeline on Iraq set by Bush. Whatever troop movements that have been happening with regard to Iraq have been according to the timetable set up by Bush and Iraqi government before Preznit Bambam screwed up his Oath of Office on Inauguration Day.
Strike one, dumbass.
Are you wearing your “I ♥ Obama” t-shirt right now?
I’d say not only is he wearing the T shirt but has at least two Obama/Biden along with perhaps “Go Green” “Save the Planet” and a multitude of liberal bumper stickers, probably still has a Gore and Kerry sticker as well!
Mr. Obama’s journey of vehement opposition to every program, every strategy President Bush initiated to protect the United States and capture bin Laden began as soon as he took his senate seat. The campaign trail of 2008 is littered with teleprompters screaming condemnation of the Bush administration for Guantanamo, enhanced interrogation, rendition, telephonic surveillance of terror suspects, the Iraq war, the bombings in Afghanistan, and on and on. He issued an executive order to close Gitmo as one of his first acts after taking office. He began a conscious effort to dismantle the entire framework the Bush administration put in place. Why, he was even going to try terror beasts in downtown Manhattan. What happened? Evidently, he had a fundamental transformation. Gitmo is still open. The beasts will be tried by military tribunals…for now. He increased the drone attacks in Afghanistan. He is operating on the Iraq troop withdrawal established by the Bush administration. And he took full advantage of intel previously obtained, through methods he has forbidden, to arrogantly claim credit for what others had accomplished despite the obstacles politicians like Mr. Obama put before them. Congratulations on the occasion of your epiphany, Mr. Obama, whether you were dragged kicking and screaming to it or not. Thank you, President Obama, for making the decision, but if President Bush had traveled your ideological path, we would have come to a dead end. Thank you, President Bush. The rest was up to God and the Navy.
The “I” Man, “The Man Who Shot Osama bin Laden”
As the bastard who now swims with the fishes proves he was not a total waste of human protoplasm by providing sustenance for his new aquatic friends, it’s time to take a break from all the misleading and contradictory propaganda emanating from Washington following the untimely passing of Osama bin Laden.
Let us just stipulate that, indeed, America’s president, Barack Hussein Obama, was indeed virtually singlehandedly responsible for OBL’s death, arguably with some minimal assistance by the United States’ Navy’s corps–or is it corpse, as Obama says?–of elite SEALs.
True, those brave men did, technically, carry out the raid on Abbottbad but only under the adept direction, skilled guidance, and, ultimately, the heroic decision of our Commander in Chief, even if some vile Obama critics contend that Leon Panetta had to order the attack in lieu of the indecisiveness of the chief executive who had to sleep on it rendering his heroic decision.
Let us, however, dispense with all those ignorant critics and give our leader his just due. His affection for the personal pronouns “I,” and “my,” as used so often in last Sunday’s speech to the nation which he replicated this Sunday on “60 Minutes” should not in any way be misinterpreted as spiking any personal footballs. As Obama said to Steve Kroft, “It was the longest 40 minutes of my life:” http://huff.to/j1h6uR
(As a little divertissement, count the “I’s” and “my’s” in just that “60 Minute” excerpt and, for an additional challenge count The “I” Man’s collective “we’s” which incorporate the minimal SEAL contribution to the operation.)
That pronoun overuse should not simply be attributable to egotism, or self-obsession and must be taken at face value. In sum, as Rush Limbaugh has perspicaciously observed, it was not America but rather Barack Hussein Obama who killed Osama bin Laden, and more power to him!
Islamic millitants . . .
(Read more and listen to Paul Shanklin’s “The Man Who Shot Osama bin Laden” here: http://www.genelalor.com/blog1/?p=4391)
Read the National Security Act
Pannetta cannot order covert operations without Presidential approval. See the quote above.
DEVGRU is under JSOC. This entire thread is a big pile of nonsense. Pannetta cannot order them to do anything.
As far as Obama’s administration giving inconsistent reports on the events and circumstances that took place in Osama Bin Laden’s compound, let me just say this -
First, the whole administration is elated that the mission was a complete success, none of the Navy SEAL Team Six members were killed or injured, and they got out of Pakistan’s air space in the nick of time, as the Pakistanis were already scrambling their own jets to face them. So much happened in that 40 minute span of time for the SEALs in that compound along with the adrenaline afterwards knowing that they have taken out the biggest terrorist in the world, this created the fog of war scenarios in the aftermath.
And second, having inconsistent accounts reported afterwards from the administration was more of their eagerness to share with the country the best news that America has awaited for a decade. It speaks more volumes about their elation, eagerness, and not wanting to keep the American public waiting than anything else, so mistakes happened. These mistakes does not prove the reluctance of the President, it proves that they are humans dealing with the biggest news of the 21st century.
Sorry, Dave, eagerness does not excuse unprofessionalism. The fact is that Obama and his supporters opposed intelligence measures started by Bush that were necessary for this operation and remain necessary to protect us from Islamist networks elsewhere. I still don’t see any coherence in Obama’s actions toward terrorism. So while I am glad that OBL is gone, I don’t feel any more secure that Obama understands the threats we still face. All I see is a man who likes to have the lights shining on him as he stands on the shoulders of far better people.
As far as the Bush administration’s intelligence measures such as “enhanced interrogation” methods being the key element responsible for this, there is absolutely no proof. Some ex CIA agents that were involved in the interrogations have stepped forward and said that the terrorists never revealed any critical information during those enhanced interrogations. For all the people who believe this, let me ask you all just one simple question – If it did in fact worked, why had Bush not catch Osama Bin Laden during his presidency, with the information attained?
Also, realize that by using these “enhanced interrogation” methods, we cannot distinguish ourselves from these terrorists, in the eyes of God and in the eyes of the international community. What defines us as the “good guys” is that we will defeat them but will not stoop to their level of evil.
Have you bothered to read any other articles about the mission? I ask because there is consensus within them that the post-”enhanced” cooperation of several terrorists gave us the nom de guerre of Bin Laden’s courier, and then the fact that he was important was shown when KSM and another leader claimed, incredibly, that they did not know of him. (Yes, KSM’s cooperation, which came only after water-boarding, was useful even though he lied; while flat-out refusal to talk to an interrogator prevents us from getting useful information, deceitful cooperation is often quite useful.) The reason Bush’s men did not act on this name is because it took time to get the courier’s real name, and then to track him. Again, all of this reported widely. So your ignorant comment is rather embarrassing to your position.
Double yoikes! Dave say: “As far as the Bush administration’s intelligence measures such as “enhanced interrogation” methods being the key element responsible for this, there is absolutely no proof.”
Because we don’t know the wording of the Obama order, if there is one, to attack OBL, we don’t know if the order was one of “enhanced assassination” or simple capture dead-or-alive or what.
Before Obama was even elected he declared he’d go after terrorists even inside Pakistan and got hell for saying it from Clinton and others.
“Before Obama was even elected he declared he’d…”
Yes, and check the many, many other previous declarations by Mr. President.
The success of this mission and the existence of a previous policy statement on this issue does not change the other previous other policy statements made by Mr. President and the attendant about faces that have occurred, by his own choice.
Taking the best organized, most determined, and competent organization that the federal government puts forth and using it as and The Example of general competence simply illustrates widespread weakness in the general policy and direction that Mr. President has taken. When you really have it going on, Osama would be pretty much another day at the office. That’s just what you do.
On spiking the ball…
Yes, a touchdown is touchdown, and this is positive. But giving the game away with many unforced errors is a sign of incompetent leadership and a lack of discipline.
Every play counts, from the opening kickoff to 0:00 in the fourth quarter, regardless of the score at any moment. For better or worst, the next Mr. President has to contend with the totality of the game plan of the predecessor. Cheerleading such an event is a natural situation, but then again, one play does nor ensure victory, and can sometimes create a since of false competence.
Mr. President was/is blessed with a good preexisting game plan and talented front line players. And congratulations to him on this call, and for using that knowledge, support and talent to further goals of Team USA.
Your a pedant and overthinker and gerrymandering reality to attack someone. More words doesn’t equal less Obama.
Attack who, Mr. May?
Your defense of victimhood is, well, touching.
Oh my, did the wrong president kill the bads man snookums and rub some feathers? There, there, little man. Don’t think about it and it’ll all go away and maybe mommy will give you a nice sucker and backpack with George Bush’s face on it and a George Bush teddy bear you can hug ever so tight and maybe some George Bush pajamas and Chewbacca slippers and an Obama bobble head doll you can pour your Juicy Juice on to grow chia hair and maybe a nice healthy hair Barbie lunch box and Johnny Quest cotton briefs with matching stretch socks and a little Republican elephant bank to put your school vouchers in and Count Chocula/Obama vampire jelly bean counter and a Harmon Killebrew glo-in-the-dark nautical clock and a Harry Potter notebook with Hermione Granger in a little school girl outfit with pigtails on the cover casting a wizard’s spell on a tree with a face with big droopy lips that chocolate gold coins fall out of like a Las Vegas “Happy Days” slot machine.
Didn’t take long.
Gee whiz, did you get your stream of consciousness slobber wiped off your face yet, Commissar May Be Wannabe Perfection? The true May Be Thought, self exposed, is quite “modern” in its styling. Interesting.
An overt sensitivity drawn out in all it’s glory by a divergence of thought, or even a simple “I disagree”. Going to 11 so soon? So where do go you from here? Oh, that’s right, just post more often. That dominates so much betterer then that slobber.
Yes, yes, the Bush card played with such glee, betraying an inclination that the concept terrorism should be narrowly presented in May Be convenient for May Be terms, as if bin Laden was completely unknown previous to, well, name your date Wannabe. Be sure is supports whatever you’re supporting now. Lame. And what else?
So, so touchy, about Mr. President? Really now, May Be, could it be that “The true story of my stupid life” is still playing out. Hmmm, let’s see, where does one start? Much like the posts here there is an incessant nagging with feel sorry for May Be and self inflicted predestined outcomes.
Wallowing in self pity has its place. Maybe May Be, this might not be the best forum for that.
You need a blog! Where you can be all that you already are! Everyone will love you then!
Looks like shallow cover. Yet another one. Whatever.
Did I happen to mention that your nuanced arguments sound an awful lot like the droning of an insect?
Even insects change their drone once in awhile.
vb,
Beautifully stated.
Beautifully idiotic. A lot of words to say “Bush good, Obama bad.”
This isn’t thinking but just an echo chamber that’s the flip side of the Kos.
Nuanced it’s not.
But there, there little mens. Take a nice little nap and then go outside and then congratulate each other with a hearty cheer. A cheer for George Bush against Obama.
Like this: “Yay, Bush. Boo, Obama.”
That’s all your moronic posts amount to anyway.
Thank you Dave; of course, as an opposer of Obama’s ideology (or lack thereof) I don’t think the OBL operation redeems him. However, you’re right: to Caesar what’s Caesar’s and dragged or not, Obama in this case did the right thing and gave the right order.
Dave
Don’t post often but must tell you that Obama would not have made his eager announcement had a tweeter not been reporting the action LIVE. Obama only does what he is forced to do. He “leads from behind”! This will be the Obama Presidency
Or better yet the Bass ackwards President!
Dave, you should have quit while you were ahead. Now you’re the one sounding like it’s your own hormones which are exerting a full fog of orgasmic sway in response to the potent possibility you apparently perceive involving Obama’s own successful crossover into Cowboy Country. Nevertheless, I’m also still willing to admit that President Obama just might truly be on track to enter the Cowboy Hall of Fame right beside the likes of John Wayne’s “Rooster Cogburn”, Eastwood’s “Dirty Harry” or “The Outlaw Josey Wales”, or even Charles Bronson’s vigilante “Death Wish” personna, “Paul Kersey”! And I must relctantly admit that President Bush’s own cowboy cred. does indeed pale by comparison, since his acts were obviously only those of an “average”, flawed Cowboy, at best.
And…may he roasts eternally in the flames of gehenna!
The inability of this group to keep a secret gives me hope that we will soon know the truth about flying saucers. These bumbling rubes couldn’t keep a secret if their lives depended on it. The smartest people in the room? Rule of the most educated? Ha! I can’t begin to count the number of highly educated fools I’ve run into over the years.
As for the prayer, well, the after life of Islam has always been a course and vulgar place. Instead of the bliss and grace hinted at in the Christian religion, the Koran offers endless sensual pleasures. Palaces, gems and gold, rivers of wine and of course the harem of perpetual virgin women.
Bin Laden lived the perfect Islamic life. Bitter, envious, close minded, treated women as chattel, sought the death of those that refused to pray as he thought best, … all so he could live like some bit of white trash who suddenly won the lotto in the here-after.
Muslims the world over moan and ask “Why are our nations so backward?” They know why but dare not say.
It would be interesting to know more about the prayer. I wonder if someone close to OBL betrayed him (eg, someone in the compound) on the condition that he receive a ‘proper’ burial.
[Did Naval Burial Ceremony for Bin Laden Curse Jews and Christians, and Confer Pardon and Paradise on the Muslim Mass Murderer?]
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2011/05/did_naval_burial_ceremony_for.html
I do not think there was any hesitation on Obama’s part about giving the go-ahead for the assassination. He had, on many occasions, expressed his firm determination to rid the world of OBL. But he is, as you say of his quarry, “lost in his own narcisstic world”. His concerns were to magnify his personal involvement in the decision (which was really no more than saying either “Yes” or “No) and how to work it for the best possible effect in his already-launched campaign. So we got the standard “I” and “me” and “my” speech and the usual fumbling and bumbling releases
Ding Dong the wretch is dead! The planning was by our Intelligence Service. The assignment was performed by highly competent military. The publicity mess is the work of the White House. The correct way to handle it was to announce the successful action, with a brief description and decline further comment on the premise of security, and bring “leakers” to trial. The “press” has no entitlement to military intelligence.
You are certainly right on the matter of the little effect Bin Laden’s passing will have on Radical Islam’s efforts which, as they continually point out to us, are determined, implacable and unending. There is no muslim who does not believe, deeply, that Islam is destined to rule the world and that it is their duty to hasten that day. There is no such thing as degrees of belief: you believe, you obey, or you are an infidel. They are divided in only one regard, other than thousand-year old disputes over lineage: jihadist effort or patient infiltration of infidel societies. The former believe that the West is so weak that now is the time for all-out terrorist attack. The long-term believers feel that such a course will ruin the opportunity. Neither side has any remorse for the killing of infidels, even if they would be disinclined to do it personally. Islam is a barbaric, pre-feudal, oppressive dogma, drafted by an evil, blood-thirsty. primitive warlord, that has permitted not a word of change over 1400 years and demands unquestioned adherence and obedience of its believers. It is unasimalable, and is the hand of death and retrogression on every state that adopts it. Read V.S.Naipal on Pakistan and Indonesia.
Charles Manson? Osama Bin Laden? Both radical environmentalists.
http://oi55.tinypic.com/2jb7fk7.jpg
Please calm down Dave. You’re running from one base to another trying to defend the Obama infield and you just can’t make it. Trying to save Obama from himself will give you a coronary.
OBAMA’S 19TH LIE ABOUT THE MISSION TO KILL BIN LADIN
Fox News counted 18 lies or “untruths” related to the administration’s muddled story about the operation to capture/kill Osama bin Ladin. But there is a 19th lie misssed by Fox, the biggest whopper of them all: the whopper about Obama’s canceled authorization to bomb bin Ladin’s compound.
Click my name to read my widely linked piece on Townhall: Why Obama Delayed The Mission To Kill Bin Laden, And His 19th Lie.
ApolloSpeaks, so you are another one of those people who believe the President acted in order to preserve his presidency? Let me ask you some questions – It took Bush his entire presidency of not being able to capture or kill Osama Bin Laden, with the information he had attained. Do you think the current administration can act with uncertain information gathered since last August, not knowing for a fact whether Osama Bin Laden was actually inside that compound? Can you imagine the repercussions from the UN and international community if we targeted a compound of innocent civilians while violating Pakistan’s airspace?
The very sad part about this country is that we live and are slaves to a 2 party system where people feel that it’s their calling to defend their party and spread propaganda. For God’s sake, defend good from evil, right from wrong, truth from lies; that should be everyone’s calling. We are all living under the eyes of God so do right in his presence.
Dave, you have fallen into the Obama trap. The intelligence gathering done under Bush had a far wider scope than just getting OBL. It was also about identifying networks and people plotting attacks worldwide. When German politicians say that they have stopped attacks because they had leads from the Americans, you have to believe that. Far too many shallow opponents of Bush do not understand the complexity of the terrorist threats. The people who protested the wiretapping and internet and bank transaction monitoring have no idea how many sleepers were either caught or are now being followed as a result of our intel ops. And if OBL couldn’t be located earlier, that doesn’t mean that he wasn’t severely hinderd in his plans.
Atlas speaks, Apollo shrugs, Titan sighs, Hercules blusters, and Cassandra bakes cookies.
People who are blind can’t see. Just thought I’d give over one of the belabors of Hercules.
@10 James May
Likewise: Jesus Saves, Moses Invests, Mohammed Collects.
Let`s be honest, a new idea for politicians. This was a kill mission from the star, our seals are better trained than what they showed in osama`s home. I firmly believe after seeing some of the where shot in the back of the heads, our seals do not miss. A lot of countries wanted osama dead, for fear he would talk to much and a lot of countries would have a lot of explaining g to do LUCY!! Definitely this was a kill mission from the start
“I suspect” = “I don’t know nothing, I just like to say (and write) whatever dumb shit comes into my head. LOL.
Reluctant is an apt word, it took our Prez 16 hours to make a decision that would take most about 16 seconds. However that will not stop him from another week of victory laps (to use his phrase, “spiking the football”). His was a political calculation and it was the right decision. Congratulations and gratitude to the SEALS, the CIA, and the people who gave him up. Thank you President Bush for putting the wheels in motion.
I agree, I think Obama was ambivalent also. I wonder if he would not have rather killed his political opponents here in America. But he needed some credentials that Americans would respect for the next election, and killing Osama Bin Laden is as good a credential as could be got. Experts, such as Mr. McCarthy, have opined that Bin Laden’s method of violent Jihad is becoming passe and the Jihadist strategy is now trending toward stealth in the west. The killing of Bin Laden makes him a martyr and Islam has a new saint, and the threat of Islam to civilization remains. Violence will continue in Africa and Asia, but in America and Europe the Jihad will be wage through the courts and media and the PC Police, and about that I don’t think Obama is ambivalent at all.
I am glad they got Osama. High time. But I am getting kind of tired of the word gutsy. I think Obama was finally forced into doing this because realistically there was no choice. I think he owes George Bush an apology too. After all, he said that Bush had no respect for the Constitution because he employed tactics such as preventive and indefinite detention as well as enhanced interrogation techniques. However, once Obama became President he either used the same tactics and in some cases expanded them..such as the Patriot Act, or he used the intel from earlier captures to get Osama. Hypocrite.
Obama had nothing to do with Osama’s death. It was Panetta all the way. In fact, had it not been for Obama’s hestitation and obstructionism, Osama would be in Guantanamo right now.
P.S. To give all credit for Bin laden’s killing to Obama and none to Bush is like giving all credit to the moon landing to Nixon and none to Kennedy and Johnson.
Excellent analogy. Thank you.
It’s glib – nothing more.
Glib??
Have you read your own comments? Like, “It’s glib – nothing more”?
I expected you to supply the other side which is “as opposed to articulate” or “reasoned”. It’s a childish analogy. There is no comparison other than one that is glib and false.
Why not make the analogy for baseball? Events go as they do – you can’t compartmentalize them for effect.
Good thing you’ve got me to moderate your head. I think you need a new name.
How about, “Conan of Omaha”? That’s a real place.
I mean this in the gentlest way – your writing makes you seem psychotic or socially maladjusted.
Bin Laden?? What you talkin bout Willis?
On another level, however, the videos are blood-curdling, revealing a bizarre sociopath lost in his own weird narcissistic world.
There are videos of Obama planning this assassination? Can Pajamas Media post them?
Is this “weird narcissistic world” an under water grotto filled with apes by chance?
He won’t “spike the football”, but, he will do a “slam dunk”.
Obama will make sure America continues to pay it’s jizya to Pakistan.
And “The attacks will continue until the morale declines”.
Dave – it is readily apparent that you are deeply in awe of our president and equally confident that you alone are in possession of the facts! You could have stopped after one or two comments, but your continuation just confirmed your lack of prospective.
Nothing short of total ineptitude caused this administration to so factually get everything wrong after the fact – have you ever heard of ‘after action reports’? That’s what the military uses to attest to all aspects of a given mission – and that is what should have been used to answer all questions following the raid. Not some political clap-trap that strives to make Obama look good.
Incidentally, SEALs don’t suffer from ‘Fog of War’, they are trained beyond that – that’s for normal military/ex-military folks like me.
Further, reports from others in the Situation Room reveal that the POTUS was his normal/unable to make a decision self in that he couldn’t make up his mind – constantly being advised by his political ‘handler’ (Valarie) not to listen to his Intelligence/Military advisers … consequently dithering for hours over how to cover his butt in all possible scenarios.
ANYONE who says that enhanced interrogation procedures do not work and that the basic intelligence leading to OBL’s demise are simply lying to themselves and misrepresenting the facts as revealed by the timeline revealed by the CIA themselves!
I could go on for some time on your lack of candor Dave, but is isn’t worth my time – I believe I have made my point.
One question for other readers – in my 30+ years experience in the intelligence field, I have never seen such gratuitous revelation of covert military methods and procedures as I have commencing with the president’s announcement of OBL’s death. Does this bother you as much as it does me?
“Bother”, yes; Expected, yes.
“Presidential”, NO!
Considering how he accused the Administration of ‘air raiding villages’, of which he has done a fair amount, in the last two years. He castigated the enhanced interrogations of Quahtani, KSM, et al, Osama is but the most obvious
symptom of international Salafist networks,
A good secretive operation is protected by layers of lies. Each exposed lie reveals…. another lie. This may explain a lot of the apparent misinformation?
Who’n the world was it shot Osama?
Media are saying Obama.
But O was goofing off
Playing nine holes of golf.
Did he die from a stray golf ball trauma?
Should have videotaped his beheading a la Daniel Pearl and posted it on YouTube. His body should have been flushed down a toilet along with a koran, and his head stuck on a pike and returned to Gitmo for display. Attention jihadists; they’re running low on available virgins. Would you settle for a Chevy Volt?
The name of the unit, number of people involved in the raid, and the location of the unit have been made public. Making this information public puts these units and their families in more danger than they should otherwise have.
This administration is playing politics with the details when they should probably be silent.
Thank you! I have been saying the same thing. I am a military wife & the amount of info released has been astonishing. I support the SeALS & give credit to both adminstrations for their hard work but the media double standards leave me speechless. BTW The Bush admin had the biggest examples of damned if you do damned if you dont I have ever seen. He had the entire media & international “community” as well as his some of his own countrymen & politicians against him, Obama has some blogs & some on Fox. Waaay different. Had Bush got Bin Laden all we would have heard about was him going cowboy into an allied country & murdering an unarmed man in his bed in the dark of night, terrorizing women & children. HALLIBURTON! Cheney=devil! Big oil! <sarc obviously
risked his presidency????? they knew the courier was there. they didn’t know if obl was there. they risked the lives of the SEALs yes, but what political risk existed for obama? there was a high-level courier in the compound, they had every right to go in there, and no one would have known if they suspected obl was there and he wasn’t unless they said so – and if they did? if they went in to get a courier rather than drop a missile on the compound b.c they suspected obl was there and he turns out not to be? the american ppl would most certainly have supported the operation to get a an AQ target even if obl had turned out not to be there. i see no political risk for obama at all.
Considering that Obama used “Chenys Assassination Squads” to shoot Osama in the face, while, in the recent past subjecting a similar squad to courtmartial for PUNCHING an extracted terrorist in the face, I find myself a little confused on the Left’s love/hate relationship for the special forces that carried out these two missions. Just sayin’.
I read the articles mentioned by #6 Apollo Speaks. And he does make one excellent point. The reason Obama gave for the quick, secret, burial at sea and the non release of the photos, is the protection of American lives. But in that case why reveal it at all? Why not just have him killed in secret. If Muslim reaction worries him that much, why the flag waving over Osama’s corpse. Why not just let the world wonder who did it? They’d probably assume it was the US anyway, but why make them sure? Politics?
“Unfortunately, however, in the case of the Saudi, those acolytes were exponentially more powerful and numerous, including, evidently, a significant portion of the Pakistani intelligence service and military. Indeed, he still undoubtedly has millions, even hundreds of millions of acolytes.”
As usual Mr. Simon you cut to the truly important issue “…even hundreds of millions of acolytes.” I am unsure that the hundreds of millions of Americans who were and will continue to be the focus of the hate of these hundreds of millions of acolytes understand how intense and enduring that hate has been, is and will be.
Oh, but wait a minute – that prayer doesn’t really say what the words imply. We are just putting other words and thoughts into the words that are written there. Put together in sentences, those words do not mean what we are reading. The only reason we infer what those words mean is because we are anti-Muslim, anti-Arab, xenophobic, racist, rabid dogs. This is the only way that the lies can be perpetuated.
The broads. What about the broads? C’mon Roger, don’t be naive. Seventy-two of them, total virgins. That’s what the prayer meant by the “better family.” And just about any place that didn’t have goats under the roof would beat Osama’s hovel. So asking that he have a better home is just not that big a stretch. Take away the TV and the memory sticks and the guy might as well have been living in the 7th Century.
I don’t think that the koran actually says that the virgins are female humans.
72 pigs and a case of lipstick in my hope.
And maybe a nice push up bra.
Anyone who says that Obama could come close to reelection if it came out that he had a chance capture or kill ben Laden,and didn’t go for it, is a fool or a Democrat! There was no downside! First, the Lame Scream Media (LSM) would cover for him, as they always have, no tough questions sent his way. Second, if it failed, they could use the same lie as they are using to make it seem courageous. I’m willing to bet that the real probability of Osama living there and being there at the time was in the high 90% range, not 60 to 80%! There is commercial tech stuff that can give facial detail at quite a distance, in the dark. Does the CIA get their tech stuff from a flea market? Third, if the attempt, most Americans would say, “They had a workable, and they tried.” The similarity between this and what happened with Carter ends at his being President. The fiasco in the desert was the final train wreck in a series of train wrecks with Iran. From start to finish he was clueless! His actions forced military to cobble a very long shot, where everything had to work perfectly.
Why did he do it now? Libya!!! Things a not going well there! Of course that information has been pushed to the want ads page, so we can celibate, Obama The Hero! Libya is still there and still not going well!
Well, nice to see you people are all going to be voting on the ISSUES.
Don’t know the last time I saw such pure hatred passed off as reason.
Look up the word perception. If you say someone is always wrong, how can you ever be right?
The article and the thread is simply amazing. Roger: you try to create a picture that Obama was ambivalent when you have absolutely nothing to base that assumption on. The comments reveal nothing really new: either one likes Obama or one doesn’t; and lots of persons are really into being Monday morning quarterbacks.
Bottom line is simple: Bush laid the groundwork; Obama finished what Bush started; we got OBL. Nothing else matters.
I’m sure the One was conflicted, wrestled with “it”, slept on it. His style is voting “present” and not committing, letting minions do the leg work while he avoids any blame.
There is a rather believable story floating about as to how Valerie (“the dominatrix”) Jarrett was pounding on her guy that he’s couldn’t authorize the mission, that failure would be political suicide, and that she recommended leaving bin laden alone.
(but no new conspiracy theories, eh ?)
…the monster will become a martyr of Che-like proportions, mythologized
In my humble opionion that will be hard to do, seeing a somewhat fleabitten old guy wrapped in a (dirty) blanket sitting on the floor, watching himself on tee vee.
One thing Obama and Osama share is megalomania. I’m sure Che and the whole crowd had it too.
…. the videos … reveal a bizarre sociopath lost in his own weird narcissistic world ….
Weird world, for sure but he was by no means a sociopath. Islamanazism’s charismatic narcissist was a full-blown psychopath. Hesperophobically so!
I used to read about Osama’s youth, among the 50 odd brothers and sisters, with a Syrian (or Yemeni?) mom who was something of an outcast among the other wives.
Osama was a party boy and then, the siblings say, he went all religious.
Beware the party boy who goes religious, anytime, anywhere.
I find these insights to be true
On the one hand, Pakistan is melting down, diffuse, weak, fragmented under Benazir’s weak and, reportedly, clinically depressed husband and, on the other hand, one reason American troops stay in Afghanistan is to have some handle on Pakistan’s nuclear arsenal.
Is that you “Dave”….this poster is truly the newest meme-bot from the bowels of the OFA/NSA. Never tiring always on message a real Pro at disinformation…beware this model will be continuously improved but unable to fool most.
Here’s the bottom line: this was the President’s call and it was the right one. You know how I know that? You are all deliriously happy that Bin Laden’s dead but won’t give the guy who signed off on it any credit.
Obama has to sign off on a mission that is this high profile and violating Pakistani sovereignty, which he said he would do before he was even President.
The mission could easily have gone wrong with the Americans killed or captured or Bin Laden escaping. There is no doubt Obama was advised of this. And remember there was no guarantee Bin Laden was there. You are looking at this in hindsight as a fait accompli and not giving the guy credit.
What is yer frickin’ problem? You think if you type a lot of words you can create some new reality and gerrymander the operation until it suits your dislike of Obama? You’re not Republicans you’re star-gazers. Independents are not going to go for this Obama’s wrong 100% of the time and you are crying wolf over nothing and wrecking your own credibility. Give the man his due, move on and fight the fight where he’s wrong, not where he’s right and conspicuously so.
He gets credit.
But I still want him replaced in 2012, because we desperately need responsible leadership.
Yes We Cannabis!
Easy there, Jimmy. Obama did the major right thing for once, or at least he didn’t prevent the major right thing from being done. But in the so-called Muslim service…man overboard…and in censoring an unclassifiable and public information photo, he did the wrong things in my opinion. And though I don’t disagree with you very often, I don’t care all that much whether you disagree with me on this. As for Dave-the-Dem, well I guess he’s just another corporal in the propaganda army of the Left.
He’s wrong about the photo which is about 8477th down the list and he’s right about what was at the top – that amounts to pedantry and lack proportion and balance.
Just celebrate crabs and other bottom feeders fighting over the remains of a man I’m hoping some funny naval doctor put lipstick and eye shadow on.
Earrings too.
All this stuff about intel and when and how and torture is so partisan and obviously so while accusing Obama of the same that it’s quite childish.
In the fog of lies, what do we really know? Really, just one thing. They lie, casually, deliberately, genetically, habitually, strategically, tactically, everyday, about everything, about everyone, whether they have to or not.
For Spike, lying is everything. He can’t tell the difference between truth and lies because he has spent his entire life lying. His life is a lie.
So the truth is that he ordered the assassination, and didn’t, and everything in between and concurrently. He was in charge, and was involved, and was forced into it, and took 100% of the credit, and rejected 100% of the blame
Spike is the quantum president. Depending on where he is and when, he is America’s Leōnidas, or a modern day George McGovern, or something else or everything else; and there is no connection whatsoever between all of those personas, or not.
The story of the death of Osama Bin Laden, other than the perseverance and courage of the American patriot who made it happen despite the most dangerous anti-american to ever appear, is that the make believe media has actually allowed this quantum event to occur.
George Bush doesn’t even exist.
Well said.
Especially that quantum stuff
(over and out)
@40 Proreason
Spike Damn Slunk.
Extremely perceptive post and great use of language. Thanks.
Reluctant? Nice try, Rog.
http://www.newsweek.com/2011/05/05/commander-in-chief.html
As Obama and his clowns have much trouble even using the words “islamic terrorists” & go through circumlocutions of amazing dexterity to avoid those words, I must and do assume the distinct possibility that O’s heart really wasn’t in it. Other reasons, speeches, policies, and so on, but he probably had to be dragged to it. Osama was ID’d, fixed, and what was The O left in the way of choices? There are these things called leaks and The O wouldn’t want inaction to become news.
In any case there are probably many more Republicans, Conservatives, and other Normal People who he would put ahead of OBL on the hit list. His good old friend Bomber Bill Ayers could assist.
I’m disgusted/angered/horrified at the American entanglements so clearly exhibited so very recently by the terrible irony of that flight of two American made F16′s with pilots no doubt having been checked out by Americans being scrambled by a Paki General to be used to shoot down our American Seals’s helicopters after having successfully completed their mission of eliminating one of the world’s most dangerous terrorists…..near the Pakistani’s national capitol city.
Think of that.
I’m equally disgusted by the way the aftermath has been so sloppily handled by this inept,naive,evasive and……most alarming……partisan… administration which has apparently placed domestic politics above the daily heroism of the American Military.
Think of that, also.
Oh the webs we weave when we don’t face the truth about Islam.
Right on, Charles. Here and in Libya, the stumblebum-in-chief has managed to make our military look as feckless, uncertain and incompetent as he is. Great for morale.
Let’s take this in a different direction. In the prayer used, reference is made to removing dirt from the WHITE garment. Also interesting is if one is Shahid, one goes to heaven and enters into the garden of paradise with the 72 WHITE raisins awaiting. Gotta love to Islam’s preoccupation with the “whiter you are, the purer you are”. Once again I am reminded of and astounded at the ignorance of the Muslim masses concerning the inherent racism and color consciousness of Islam.
In regard to Roger Simon’s article, I also truly believe it galled Obama to do what he did in having bin Laden done in. But, let’s face it; he is up for reelection; his numbers were way down in the polls; so needs must as they say. Then — after he had allowed the dirty deed to be done, he bends way over backward to make sure the filthy Americans, i.d., “infidels” are not allowed to get too many hands on bin Laden’s exalted body (because, after all, we are so unworthy even to breathe the same air as a radical Islamist murdering jihadist). This whole situation may help Obama’s ratings for a little while, but anyone with one eye and half a brain knows that he should never, never be reelected.
It is right and just to give President Obama credit for the successful raid against Ben Laden, but I do not consider his decision making as important as many others do. It was not a make or break moment in his Administration. Enormous credit goes to our Navy Seals, the CIA, and their support colleagues; this was a masterful tactical success, but the policy had been defined years ago. President Bush laid down a marker that the US would go anywhere to terminate Osama; this had full concurrence by both parties. Over months, intelligence analysis judged a 60%- 80% chance that Obama was in the compound; we lacked directed confirmation. Hence the decision options were to wait and gain more intell – this was judged a bad bet; he would slip away. Or use munitions, which would almost certainly cause collateral damage, in a area of high ranking government leaders. If we were wrong, if it was an innocent’s home, the back lash would be disastrous. Or we could inject boots on the ground, assess, then act. Their orders were to accept surrender if possible, but were authorized to kill. (All of this comes from Leon Pennetta) The last option was to do nothing, which would be a fundamental policy shift.
Operationally, the prior Administration has been rightly criticized for our screw up at Tora Bora, the last attempt to nail the enemy leader. Reviewing the cards, Obama had to, and did make the correct call, his only real choice. Any other decision, once publicized, would have destroyed his standing as a war leader.
I have read (In British sources) that Pakistan detected, and allowed the fleet of choppers to vector deep into their air space, per prior agreements, but expected an attack in rural areas, not the compound. My President is correct to lay a marker on the Paks; they have the choice of being incompetent, or allowing traitors in their midst.
The decision to grant a respectful burial at sea to our enemy was a tough and correct call. It stands in stark contrast to the conduct of our enemies.
The decision to give the troops a “Well Done” and a closure ceremony at the WTC is a reasonable political act.
The fumbling post action disclosures range from amateurish to treasonous divulging of classified material, i.e. unit information.
Any President, of either party, would have made very similar decisions. This was not a strategic policy moment in American history. We simply took out the trash, at long last.
The middle east is boiling. Multi generational dynasties are collapsing, all over Arabia. Pakistan is close to a deliverable nuclear weapon. These conflicts will define Obama’s decision making and leadership capabilities. Thus far, he is not doing well. He is a good orator, better than his predecessor, but that is not enough. His influence among our enemies, and our domestic polity, is almost nonexistent. I wish him well.
Well, this might be off topic a little, but I feel it is on topic a little…it is concerning OBL’s death and obama…in obama’s speech after the supposed (still controversial) after OBL’s death, with my research and studying islam…shows that obama is Muslim…proof is that obama stated OBL had “…murdered many Muslims…” A number of Imam’s felt OBL had committed a “transgression” because of attack America, which was bigger and stronger then he. [Surah 2:190] Fight in the way of Allah those who fight you but do not transgress. Indeed. Allah does not like transgressors. OBL committed an Islamic transgression by attacking a force bigger and stronger than him (the US), thus there was “mischief” in Muslim countries. The mischief entails Muslims being killed (by an enemy) because of OBL’s actions against a foe bigger than him. When OBL was announced as dead from obama…obama said “he was unjust..” for he “…murdered many Muslims…”, he didn’t mention anything about murdered Americans…only Muslims, which means OBL’s actions against a stronger foe, ended up as Muslims dying in their country, all because OBL committed a transgression and the stronger foe wanted “revenge”. Obama stated in his speech something the Qur’an mentioned…”Allah does not like transgressors.”
Don, I don’t believe Obama’s a Muslim. The guy moves, sways to whatever political wind is blowing. In other words, as many writers and posters have said through the years, Obama’s what you want him to be. An ideologue in the highest regard.
Look at his ‘record’ if you can call it that. He rarely voted when Senator, but sure liked to hear his own voice and speak whenever possible (’04′ Democratic National Convention and Senate floor speeches).
Spoke of the injustices occurring in his very own Senatorial District, but did jack squat to improve conditions.
As President he’d spoken of many ‘promises’ whereas nearly all have not been thoroughly discussed as promised or even addressed.
Obama and other unvetted/untouchable politician’s are no different to their admirers than the ‘People Weekly’ crowd who gather ALL their ‘news’ and form their opinion of the ‘real’ Jennifer Aniston’s, Kate Beckinsale’s or George Clooney’s from said tabloid nonsense. For the aforementioned can ‘do no wrong’, but are ‘inappropriately wronged’.
Well worth reading West Bank Mama’s contrast of President Obama’s approach versus Israel’s approach: http://westbankmama.wordpress.com/2011/05/05/dear-westbankmama/
‘..judicious silence..’ – Roger, come now. ‘Love them plugs’ Biden blabbed not once, but twice, about the perpetrators of said operation.
‘Judicious’ type actions doesn’t enter Biden’s cranium for it’s 2 syllables too long for how ‘ol Joe functions.
As for ‘R.L. Sails..’ and other folks still regurgitating the ‘good orator’ shtick.. seriously? I had public educators, 101/102 Psych type professors with more convincing oratory acumen.
I’m beyond exhaustion when watching all politician’s eyes reading ‘their’ speeches. It’s about as ‘informative’ and honest as ‘comedic sitcoms’ accompanied with laugh tracks.
NOTHING is genuine, novel or original in any aspect of our day-to-day lives. This and other Presidency’s is sadly ‘reality’ television.
My lifestyle reflects more and more to the The Kinks ‘Apeman’ song.
Obama is here, as he so often is, merely trying, unsuccessfully, to cope any way he can with events which constantly overwhelm him, because they stubbornly refuse to conform to his world view, that view which he gained in the academic pits of the Progressive miasma. He is learning, albeit very slowly and not fast enough to save us all from great harm, that his favored remedies for what ails us all do not work at all, but only further exacerbate our troubles. I do not ascribe to him some sinister purpose, but rather a startling ignorance of the way things really are and really work, fostered by an education system perverse in its self-referential coddling of its members, blinding them to the shape of things as they are. This episode with OBL, just illustrates Obama as again being swept away by events which he cannot foresee, cannot fully control, and for which he cannot form any rational plan of action to the full benefit of this country.
Per the related information gathering topic, the recent debate over how OBL was found out, it seems obvious that what is often cavalierly termed “torture” just plain worked. I’m somewhat reluctantly with those who say both that waterboarding does not rise (or fall, as it may)to the level of definable torture, and that torture is sometimes necessary to prevent much worse moral and physical harm to many more people. I think much of the current argument, first initiated by liberal folk trolling for any political leverage possible to harm the Bush presidency, is now more about personal moral preening, but that sounds a bit more harsh than I intend.
We all want to be, or at least be perceived to be, moral actors, unless our ideology has rendered that part of our perception null and void (e.g., Jihadi terrorists). So we think hard about rules and regulation of even our wartime behavior. But, this is not really a war by classic definition. If anything, our action is designed to prevent a civilizational which one side is doing everything in its power to precipitate. Our current enemies clearly do not fall into the category of those protected by the rules of warfare. If they did, they would wear uniforms, not hide behind civilians, battle only armed soldiers of its opposition, and openly declare their intentions to seek to gain some immediately defined territorial or other advantage. They do not do any of these things because they are not fighting a 20th century type war for which commonly agreed rules are in place, but, instead, with pure unbridled will-to-power terror tactics, are trying to precipitate one – a war pitting the Muslim world against everyone else, one from which their desired outcome would be first, the hell of perhaps tens or even hundreds of millions of casualties, followed by the establishment of their cherished Caliphate over the entire globe with the Islamo-fascist ideology dominating every decision and action any human subject would be allowed to make. To them, all is fair in order to accomplish this goal. To us, while we must not fall into depravity to defend ourselves, our defense must not be hindered by rules made to apply to a situation that was never the one intended by our enemies. Until such time as a real war is declared on both sides, the matter of using “enhanced” interrogation techniques is not one which should be so facily categorized as falling under the rules of “civilized” warfare.
Note also that putting ladies underwear atop the heads of prisoners forced to form cheerleading pyramids so that they might make memorable photos to serve the strange appetites of prison warders is certainly not torture of any kind, but something totally different and punishable as it is, but more for reasons of disciplining destructively aberrant behavior of any sort than enforcing their rules of war. And, waterboarding, while certainly not something to which we should submit citizens accused of larceny, rape or even everyday non-ideological murder, is really not torture in any commonsense meaning of the word. Yes, it would be terrible to experience, but so is imprisonment and its indignities in general. But it is wrong to say that waterboarding is on the same plane as forceful beatings and various methods designed to cause excruciating pain, disablement, permanent physical damage and even death – those are the hallmarks of real torture.
Last, let me be the devil for the moment and express a strange thought that I hope won’t become the precinct of internet conspiracy builders; it’s just a thought. If I were president, and the opportunity to capture OBL came up, what would be the best possible outcome? Well, one I could think of would be the following. Capture him alive. Pretend to have killed him. Leave no witnesses available (as in dead or in indefinite Pakistani captivity) to testify to any other counter-facts. Keep OBL in absolute secret isolation and milk him mercilessly for facts about his network and plans, without tipping off his comrades that any such facts could possibly be forthcoming from a dead man. Pretend to bury him at sea. Show no pictures of him dead until or unless it was possible to fake such pictures with absolute authority. Claim a “mountain of disks and other media” were left behind to explain future inevitable intelligence gains. Give cover against Jihadi reprisals to Pakistani authorities by describing them as having been possibly uncooperative with us in the past sheltering of OBL, so that they continue to silence the survivors of our capture raid. Eventually, when we feel that all possible evidence has been retrieved from his captivity, unceremoniously kill OBL and dispose of his body. Of course, all of this is just a random musing, but it would be a damn site more clever and productive than what we probably have really come up with instead.
Bring on those 2012 elections.
dafrank, when are you running for office and is there a website for your campaign yet?
Honestly, I’m in accord with your post. The last paragraph specifically reads like fiction writer Lee Child writes in his books whereas the antihero, ‘Jack Reacher’ would do exactly what you’d said. If only.
That last paragraph was exactly what I thought I would do given the same set of circumstances. Unfortunately, a conspiracy of that magnitude requires too many people to cooperate & never blab to actually be feasible, especially in this day & age
Excellent article Roger – well said!
I continue to find humor in the rubes who honestly believe “Obama risked his Presidency” when he finally gave the order to kill UBL. The only additional risk to Obama’s Presidency is if he hadn’t acted to kill UBL.
Like I said here the other day, this mission could have failed miserably, every Seal involved shot dead or died in a crash, Osama could have been on screen daily mocking the infidels, and Obama might have dropped two or three points in the polls. Obama has dropped as low as the statistic will allow.
95% of blacks will vote for Obama in the next election; 65% of Latinos will vote Obama in the next election; virtually all liberals will cast their dispassionate vote for Obama in 2012; New York and California will go overwhelmingly for Obama next November, no matter what happens.
Tip of the cap to Obama for giving the go ahead and I’m grateful UBL is dead – justice was served to a despicable man by the real heroes of this war. But let’s not go overboard about Obama’s personal risk. He’s to the point of nothing to lose, as the rest of his first term has been an utter failure.
Can’t we all just get along?
There is one reason why they should say a lot of contradicting stories: to get more time. Time to get most of the info from the computers allowing for more hits. If you publish all the proofs immediately, the other terrorists would also start immediately the run away.
There was some mis-management? YES, hell yes, yet it’s comprehensible given the nature of the operation and the possible risks and ramifications.
As for the credits: give credit when credit is due. Not only to Obama but also to Bush, and move on. He got it right, be it by chance or because he was dragged on, it’s ok, he got it right. Now, let’s move on and fight the Obambi administration in the things he is wrong (which is everything else).
No, sorry, this regime lies when the truth would serve better.
Mismanagement does not cover the spread from ‘he resisted .. no, he didn’t, but his wife did … no she didn’t resist, but OBL hid behind her … no, he didn’t, he charged at the Seals … no, he didn’t, his wife did … she was shot and killed … no, she was wounded … yes, OBL did resist, and he was killed during the fire fight in the front room … in a hallway … in the bed room … where he was hiding behind his wife … no, he wasn’t, he was only wounded … no, he was unharmed when he surrendered was shot when he tried to escape … no, he was shot at long range …
It is the nature of this regime to lie.
A ‘rational’ answer on days 1, 2 (& 3) would have been “We confirm that OBL is dead and we are not releasing all of the details at this time. We will tell you more after we have debriefed our heroic special operations staff. Next question please”. No hints of secret caches of computers & documents. No highlighting how the stressed the teleprompter was at having to leave his golf game early.
However, the above would only work if a) the regime had a prior history of telling the truth, b) actually told one story (not 30+) within the first couple of days, and c) had any concern other than making the Null look good at everyone’s expense.
Quite frankly, I’m shocked that the regime hasn’t produced photos of Bambi leading the assault.
The disinformation and paranoid stories were a “must-do” in my criterion. Of course that could be done better, professionally and -the most important- to disinform the enemy not the american people.
I am not a Obama fan, and he is contemptible, but:
1.- he got the killing order done
2.- he got a lot of disinformation following
There are precedent for this kind of action course:
* Israel bombing the Syrian reactor
* Colombian bombing of a chief terrorist base inside Ecuador
I remember the Colombian government released information tiny bit by tiny bit. And Israel had her proverbial “don’t confirm, don’t deny” policy. Both cases with an ensuing paranoia. You say he should had given a “rational answer”, ok, I agree (or better give no answer at all -Israel style). But as the said goes “even a stopped clock is right twice a day”. He got it right by ordering a killing. Be it by chance, by mis-calculation, by whatever except patriotism, as you wish, but he got it right this time in the day.
I must confess, however, I have another kind of paranoia: I think he was forced to put a rest to the birther issue, and he needs a new issue to fool the republicans again by the next election. And I think that’s the only evil calculation he did this time. He is playing the right wing into a trap. If this paranoid issue is not stopped soon, it will grow like the birther issue, by 2012 when every body is bashing O. he will release all the info -he would calculate- for his own benefit. That’s it. I am capitalist and entitled to have my own paranoias too
so, I think the best course is to calm down, lower the tones, don’t play his game and attack him for everything else (the economy anyone?), there is already plenty of issues to fight.
Some things never change.
Look up George Kennan’s “Long Telegram”, the one he sent from Moscow in 1956 and which changed (eventually) Washington’s approach to the Soviets. Along with that of course is his “Sources of Soviet Conduct, 1947″, and the expressions…”oriental secretiveness and conspiracy” and, “the Kremlin’s neurotic view of world affairs.”….these are readily available via Wikipedia.
The key approach here is of course his “Containment” idea which is so startlingly approproiate today, and is so startlingly applied by simply inserting the words “Islamists” for Communists as you read, and then,even the geographical areas jump up as….the same rough area.
Young American lives on the ground in Asia are simply not worth the risk involved in our American attempts to keep these barbarous factions from slitting each others’ throats by our simultaneous attempts to keep them from blowing us up on that traditional bloody ground called Asia, with our military strengths better applied by using drones and offshore naval attacks to prevent the lauching of Islamist attacks against our home continent….much the same way as we did the Soviet threat of Intercontinental Ballistic Missiles (ICBM’s).
We’ve found ourselves squarely in the middle of the viciousness of the Afghanis, the Pakistanis, and the Iraqis. For good measure, add the Iranians.
They must solve their own problems; we must cease permitting these indiginous murderous problems to become American problems…..and we Americans then accomplish our own security more than half century removed from Geo. Kennan by belatedly continuing our “containment” of Islam.
Paradise by a SEAL Firefight
—apologies to Meatloaf and “Paradise by the Dashboard Light”
Well, I remember everything as if it happened only yesterday
Hangin’ on the golf course without an advisor in sight
I’d released the birth certificate, figured Donald Trump was stymied
So was back in the groove, keepin’ all my duties light
I was watching those white balls arc in flight
Whether hookin’ left, or slicin’ right
I was forgetting ’bout the diet nagging from my wife
Forgettin’ ’bout the diet nagging from my wife
Oh, yeah! It’s all right!
Oh, yeah! It’s all right!
But then they called me back to that damn house of white
To send Osama to paradise in a SEAL firefight
Yes, they called me back to that damn house of white
To send Osama to paradise in a SEAL firefight
Ain’t no doubt about it
Ain’t no doubt about it—I was real distressed
I had to choose a course of action rather than digress
Ain’t no doubt about it
Couldn’t manage to slide out of it
Ain’t no doubt about it—I was real distressed
I had to choose a course of action rather than digress
Dammit, Hillary and Leon
Do I need to know this “need to know?”
I’ve been coasting along
Taking credit for the work you’ve done
If you need something from me
Then you should just call up Valerie Jarrett
That I rely on her word should come as no surprise
‘Cause she and I are tight
She’s the one who makes the whole thing run
I was watching those white balls arc in flight
Whether hookin’ left, or slicin’ right
Oh, yeah! It’s all right!
Oh, yeah! It’s all right!
And then they called me back to that damn house of white
To send Osama to paradise in a SEAL firefight
Paradise in a SEAL firefight
Live high on the public dime
Then kick back for a well-earned rest
Ain’t no doubt about it—I was real distressed
I had to choose a course of action rather than di—
Can’t get out of working tonight
I can sense the professionals’ evil delight
["Radio broadcast" interlude snipped]
Hillary:
Mr. President!
I gotta know right now
Before we go any further
Is it a go now?
Do you give the order?
Do we send SEALs
Within Pakistan’s borders?
Will you authorize a mission whether it wins or fails?
Will you take what comes whether it’s heads or tails?
Is it a go now?
Do you give the order?
Do we send SEALs
Within Pakistan’s borders?
Will you authorize a mission whether it wins or fails?
Will you take what comes whether it’s heads or tails?
I gotta know right now
Before we go any further
Is it a go now?
Do you give the order?
Obama:
Let me sleep on it
Secretary, let me sleep on it
Let me sleep on it
And I’ll give you an answer in the morning
Let me sleep on it
Secretary, let me sleep on it
Let me sleep on it
I’ll give you an answer in the morning
Hillary:
I gotta know right now!
Is it a go now?
Do you give the order?
Do we send SEALs
Within Pakistan’s borders?
Will you authorize a mission whether it wins or fails?
Will you take what comes whether it’s heads or tails?
I gotta know right now
Before we go any further
Is it a go now?
Do you give the order?
Obama:
Let me sleep on it
Secretary, let me sleep on it
Let me sleep on it
I’ll give you an answer in the morning
Hillary:
Do you give the order?
Obama:
Let me sleep on it!
Hillary:
Do you give the order?
Obama:
I couldn’t take it any longer
Man, I was crazed
Forced to make a real decision
In less than two days
But I was getting so agitated, being deprived of praise
I said that they should go ahead and send the SEALs
Yes, I said go ahead and just send in the SEALs
So now the media and White House flacks
Are praising my “gutsy call”
Though confidentially if it were up to me
I would never have done anything at all
When time came for command you know my will was mush
But how sweet it is to lord it over Bush
Praise for my “gutsy call,” oh yes
From one and all (all! all!)
Praising my “gutsy call”—I hope it lasts until next Fall!
Did I mention I would feel far more confident with Meatloaf as President?
meatloaf is kicking ass on celebrity apprentice
just sent star jones packing
called her “sweetie”
Roger,
Consider that you are seriously uninformed concerning tradecraft here. There are many, many explanations for the months of delay here, and for the “72 versions” of the raid given by the Obama administration. The latter might easily be disinformation designed to protect our sources and means, including our human sources inside the ISI.
First, our national technical means includes remote sensing of computer activity even when those are not connected to the internet, and are using local generator-delivered or battery power. I.e., your use of a laptop on battery power produces electronic signals which our spooks can detect, record and decipher some distance away. It’s all very classified but it can be done. I am certain it was in OBL’s case, i.e., the mere use of computers in his residence was likely followed in some detail by our spooks for a month or more before the raid using remotely operated sensors carefully placed by our agents near OBL’s residence. The ISI is aware of this.
Second, any raid on the premises, as opposed to simply blowing it into little bitty pieces, required lengthy surveillance ahead of time to determine its defenses, the patterns of people coming and going, movements on site, etc. Again, we have sensors which can penetrate walls and track the movements of people inside. Furthermore careful analysis can reveal identities of individuals. This takes time.
Third, we might have been waiting for desirable personnel assignments within the Pakistani security forces to take place. This could have been as simple as bribing people to look the other way at particular times, for a particularly dangerous person to have a routine transfer to a less sensitive position or be off-duty at just the right time, etc. Just identifying all the possible players takes time, let alone identifying duty schedules, transfers. And then we needed time to figure out how to take advantage of, and/or avoid problems from, all of those, and then do whatever we were going to do about all that.
An operation like the Obama bin Laden raid takes an unbelievable amount of planning, and lots of time just developing the how-to intelligence.
I won’t quarrel with, or nit-pick, success of this magnitude. Consider that we might have killed OBL because we didn’t need him alive for questioning due to learning, from remote sensors during raid preparation, what information was probably on the computers in his hideout. I tend to doubt that, but it is possible.
The spooks, special-ops people and Obama administration did this one right, and that includes the coverup plan.
Thoughts on UBL’s killing:
1) Let’s dispense with the whole notion that Obama made a bold decision to go after UBL the way he did. If you stop to think about it Obama had NO OTHER CHOICE than to proceed with the operation as it transpired. The fact that it took him a reported 16 hours to realize this is shocking to me, after all he’s supposed to be brilliant isn’t he?
2) For those of you bold enough to have viewed the Reuter’s pictures of the dead left at the compound, did you notice anything strange?
The thing that struck me as strange about the photos was the fact that the men killed were shot once in the head, except for one who was shot both in the head and the heart. This is rather remarkable precision don’t you think in the chaos of a supposed shootout involving automatic weapons? I don’t care if you are a highly trained Navy Seal, in a firefight in close quarters involving people shooting at you with automatic weapons you cannot afford the time to be that precise. You are going to be spraying bullets and the ones that hit your target are not going to be so few and so perfect. The administration initially said there was a firefight but now is waffling in light of reports from Pakistan that no shots were fired from the compound. They have also backtracked on their initial report that UBL was armed and resisted before being shot. They now say that he was unarmed but “made a threatening movement”. It is also strange that there were 25 minutes of video blackout during the operation. You mean to tell me that everyone’s helmet cam malfunctioned simultaneously? The dead men I saw in the pictures were not killed in a shootout, they were executed, which is fine by me and perfectly justifiable, but may make some on the left uneasy.
My reasoning for why Obama had no other choice but to send in commandos is as follows:
1) It is inconceivable that Obama could just ignore the CIA’s report on the whereabouts of UBL and choose not to raid the compound. Think about it. The CIA has spent years getting this information. It represents the culmination of countless man hours of work. They are virtually certain they know where he is. For Obama to just blow them off would be devastating to them. Remember Obama has spent years berating and belittling the CIA dating all the way back to his years as a Senator. He undoubtedly has many enemies there. It is a VIRTUAL CERTAINTY that if Obama blew them off someone at the CIA would leak to the press the fact that they were almost certain of UBL’s location but Obama refused to act on it. Once the facts came to life the vast majority of reasonable people would conclude that the CIA really did have very strong evidence of UBL’s location and they would look very unfavorably upon a President who refused to act on the intelligence. Consider the fact that this compound was obviously built to hide a wealthy high-profile figure. Whoever is living there is so paranoid they don’t even have phone lines despite living in a million dollar structure. They burn ALL their trash. Why would you burn all of your trash unless you were afraid that someone might go through it and obtain a fingerprint or DNA sample? Who in that part of the world would be worried about their DNA being obtained? And to top it off you have the man known to be UBL’s PERSONAL COURIER repeatedly visiting the site. Reasonable Americans would conclude that the CIA was correct and there was an extremely high likelihood that UBL was there, and they would consider Obama either incompetent, too indecisive, or too timid if he failed to act. That would be political suicide.
2) Some have suggested that Obama acted as a bold and decisive leader by ordering commandos to storm the compound in a dangerous operation rather than just bombing it. But in reality bombing was never an option so long as UBL was in Pakistan. If you are going to drop a bomb you have to worry that UBL sleeps in a hardened bunker under the compound and might conceivably survive the attempt and escape. Therefore you have to hit the compound very hard with a laser-guided bunker-buster. This would obliterate UBL’s body into a million tiny pieces mixing them up with pieces from everyone else living there. In order for you to confirm that he was indeed dead it would require you to send in a team the next day to meticulously sift through the rubble and try to obtain tissue for DNA analysis. Any tiny bits of tissue found could belong to anybody that was in the compound and they would be all mixed up and it would be a forensics nightmare. But that is all a moot point, because by the next day the Pakistanis would have secured the area and would not let a team of American forensic specialists anywhere near it. They would be pissed that the US had just violated their airspace and sovereignty and they would not allow themselves to be further humiliated and embarrassed by UBL being proven to have been there. They would douse the entire crater in some flammable liquid and melt it into a molten slag-heap to ensure no possibility of any DNA ever being recovered. Why would they risk the embarrassment of UBL living under their noses and jeopardize billions in US foreign aid? They would not, and with no proof that UBL was killed the US would look foolish. Meanwhile Al Qaeda would eventually just claim that UBL (who is almost never heard from anyway) died somewhere else, some other time, in glorious battle or of natural causes rather than give us the satisfaction of having gotten him. Don’t kid yourself, bombing UBL’s compound was NEVER an option that Obama had open to him.
3) Once Obama sent in the commandos UBL had to be executed immediately. The spectacle of UBL lounging at Gitmo where Obama has promised no one will be tortured, smirking while he gets his Koran delivered to him daily with great ceremony by someone handling it with white gloves, would be too much. UBL would have the satisfaction of going through a trial in which he could get on his soapbox and denounce the United States to the world and inspire and rally his forces which would daily hail him as a great leader. He would undoubtedly have the further enjoyment of watching Obama squirm when some of his followers inevitably kidnapped some American tourists and threatened to torture and kill them on YouTube if UBL is not released. This is also why, by the way, UBL’s body was disposed of so quickly and to a place where it could never be recovered. Otherwise his followers would kidnap Americans and demand that UBL’s body be returned to them. This is a no win situation for any President and is why UBL was immediately executed and his body immediately dumped to the bottom of the ocean. Any President would make the same call, but for this administration to make up all these stories of how UBL died in a firefight and his body was buried at sea within 24 hours to honor Islamic law is malarkey. It insults the intelligence of the American people to lie to us like that. Obama chose the ONLY option that he had available to him which hardly makes him a bold and decisive leader. The fact that it took Obama 16 hours to make this non-decision is disturbing to me. The world is full of people smarter than me, but I would have figured this out in about 10 minutes and ordered the commandos into action. The fact that it took Obama so long to come to the same conclusion makes me question his intelligence, or wonder if he is just chronically paralyzed by indecision. For the Left to be touting this as an example of Obama being a bold and decisive leader is just ridiculous.
4) Something else I found interesting about this operation was the reports that TWO bodies were evacuated from the compound by the Seals. Both the Pakistani report and the US admit that two enemy combatants were removed from the scene. They differ, however on whether or not the second person was alive or dead. The Seals lost one helicopter and had to pile everyone onto the remaining choppers. This is apparently why prisoners weren’t taken. According to the Obama administration the Seals evacuated UBL’s dead body, which was a given, along with another dead body, but according to Pakistani authorities quoting UBL’s surviving wife this second person was only WOUNDED and not dead (presumably one of UBL’s sons). Ask yourself this question: You have the capacity to evacuate your troops plus two of the enemy. It is a given that you are going to take UBL’s body with you, but which one would you pick after him? Would it be another dead body of someone no one had ever heard of, or would it be one of the live adults who had been presumably living with UBL for years? Can you imagine the intelligence value of a living adult who had actually been with UBL for years? Call me a skeptic but I don’t believe the Navy Seals are as stupid as the administration’s version would imply. Mark it down, the Pakistani report from UBL’s wife is truthful and the US is now in possession of a living prisoner (probably UBL’s son) that they don’t want anyone to know about.
Right now Al Qaeda operatives around the world are very nervous. They have undoubtedly heard that UBL is dead and that the US confiscated his computers and records. They are wondering if they are named and trying to decide how to cover their trail and whether or not to flee their current location. The US is in a race to find them based on the new info they have before they disappear. I would be willing to bet that this second “dead” person evacuated by the Seals is actually alive, and is at this very moment being subjected to intense interrogation, probably of the “enhanced” variety.
Charles, you are too generous: Obama dithered for more than 16 hours. They knew he was there in August 2010 and it took until February 2011 to decide to do something about it. The 16 hours came after that!
Actually, the compound was brought to attention during the construction phase during the Bush adminstration. Obama had ‘NOTHING’ to do with formulating any intel that led to the compound! Obama’s administration was handed intel and intel operations plans only as a matter of the changing of command….Bush to Obama. It is rather routine for ‘A’ president to initiate intel and another president or presidents later, in conjunction with CIA, State and other international intel’s, formulate an action plan in which Delta Force or Navy Seals will be tasked.
Of course, politicization for personal or party gain, disclosing classified intel and operations, is nothing new in these times and they twist the facts to their advantage.
Funny how everything else is because of George Bush (except this) isn’t that so nice for Obama. I will still be against him in the 2012 election though he can do nothing to keep me from voting against him! He is a very bad man and president!
That is a Neg. there Ghost Rider. I’m not a Seal, and I was not there, but from what I know about training, and close quarter tactical situations, I bet a pay check any bad guys that got smoked, got smoked with well aimed shots.
Head shots? I would expect rounds to center mass, unless there was someone, or more than one orderd to take out any bad guys once the op was started. Using head shots would not be a problem for an expert marksmen in less than 300 yards.
No one is talking, and I guess it is better the bad guys out there do not know how it went down. But great job to the action team, and blocking force. Someone might want to get the bugs out of the experamental helos.
I think you should read up on anti terror units like DEVGRU (SEAL Team Six) and Delta Force. They don’t spray, period. There is nothing weird about all the shots being very precise head shots. The only reason you find it weird, is because you are a cake eating civilian who doesn’t grasp how much these units train.
According to Dick Marcinko, SEAL Team Six under his command spend more bullets in training than the entire Marine Corps. They shot several thousand rounds each every week. They conduct stress shooting, where they hold various drills just before target practice to learn to control breathing and avoid tunnel vision despite high adrenalin, confusion etc.
Why? This is why. They are supposed to be able to assault a hijacked aircraft, kill the bad guys who might wear body armor and save ALL the hostages in the space of a few minutes. That can only be done if you are able to make precise head shots in any circumstance.
OBAMA’S 19TH LIE ABOUT THE MISSION TO KILL BIN LADIN
Fox News counted 18 lies or “untruths” related to the administration’s muddled story about the operation to capture/kill Osama bin Ladin. But there is a 19th lie misssed by Fox, the biggest whopper of them all: the whopper about Obama’s canceled authorization to bomb bin Ladin’s compound.
Click my name to read my widely linked piece: Why Obama Delayed The Mission To Kill Bin Laden, And His 19th Lie.
Obama got bin Laden just as Nixon put a man on the moon-
… he was President when it happened
(Who went out to the golf course at Andrews to collect the President? “Mr President- we’re gonna waste bin Laden- wanna watch?”)
Obama is a terrible president. He’s not even particularly loyal to the United States as he’s proven time and time again, but it’s still a good thing that Bin Laden is dead (or, at least thjey claim he is), and Obambi was the guy in command when it happened.
Still, most of the credit should mainly go to George Bush, the only president we’ve ever had that actually showed any real interest in going after terrorists and state sponsors of terrorism. We wouldn’t even be carrying out long term anti-terrorist campaigns, if it wasn’t for him.
And, he did while under ceaseless politically motivated attacks from the likes of Obambi.
Good job, George!
Look at the photo of our leaders watching the mission. The President is not sitting in the chair one would expect him to be in if he was running the meeting.
He is sitting in a corner in a small chair as though the reports that he was dragged in at the last minute from a golf course are true.
why are there so many people in on it?
a smart president would have kept this really tight to the chest
there would be no pictures except for one photo shown briefly but clearly during his initial press conference (held the next morning– to milk pr profits) where he/she gives a simple description of the operation; covert counter terrorism strike force of navy seals and cia operatives kill bin laden— DONE
this event should have been a knockout for obama
but the bloopers and flubs show a power struggle and faction splits within the administration
are you telling me the american people wouldnt want to know what is happening?
it would be the reality show of the millenium and possibly then end of the left for 50 years– at least give us some buildup time before they surge back
Because the U.S. for decades now cannot keep military and intelligence secrets, there is little choice left but to implement the kill order especially for those who are high value targets.
That said, Obama has maintained a low or no prisoner battlefield philosophy for his own political advantage given all his campaign promises concerning prisoners and Gitmo. Obama has maintained that prisoners of the ‘terrorist war’ are criminals and should be prosecuted under domestic law……stupidity!
The ‘only’ secret he is willing to maintain is the Bush rendition policy for those certain prisoners that are taken. I suspect that number is moderate and the intel significant!
Please stop the bias and show my post. We ARE all in fact living under the eyes of God so please do right by him, Mr. Roger L. Simon, CEO of Pajamas Media.
Osama the Saudi, a fortnight dead,
Forgot the roar of airplanes, and the shrill rockets’ yell
And martyrdom and jihad.
A current under sea
Picked his bones in whispers. As he rose and fell
He passes the stages of his age and youth
Entering the whirlpool.
Gentile or Jew
O you who tap the mouse and look screenward,
Consider Osama, who was once handsome and tall as you.
(apologies TS Eliot)
Roger… please… you are better than this:
“H” is not a vowel!!! It is not, ever, ever, EVER, preceded with “an” (unless you are speaking aloud with a gross Cockney accent – and you never should be!!).
“*an* Hamas leader”…. It’s not “An ‘Amas”, it’s “A Hamas”.
This error throws the whole reading stream off, and jars the sensibilities. Please, please, PLEASE… avoid this “pet peeve” in the future!! I could read this article no further; thankfully it was almost done before you made this horrific mistake. Ugh!!!
-Mr. Jest
No big deal. It follows the well-established tradition of “an hotel” or “an historic … “. The “Cockney” jibe is misplaced – a better class of people tend to opt for the “an” in many an instance; they are in minority, but that is to be expected.
Also, I have yet to hear a hard H pronounced in Arabic, which puts an angle on the matter, does it not??
Smoke, Mr. It is really quite a honor, err, quite an honor…awe you know what I mean…to meet up with an reader so sensitive as thou art. Content be damned. It is all in the vowels of the story that one finds meaning, isn’t it.
Panic In, On, Above, and Below America’s Streets
Newswires are awash in panic stories since President Obama killed Osama bin Laden with the assistance of our Navy SEALs, more awash than before he killed OBL.
As Drudge reported on Monday from various sources:
New York’s Senator Chuckie Schumer, who is always calling for something as long as there’s a photo op possible, is “calling for the creation of an Amtrak no ride list. That would take the secure flight program and apply it to Amtrak trains.” (CBS.com) Subways, the LIRR, Metro North are presumably safe enough for Chuckie.
“Two terrifying rail security breaches occurred within hours of each other in [New York] city yesterday–including one at the World Trade Center, where a man slipped into the PATH tunnel and walked all the way to Jersey before saying he had left a bomb in the tunnel.” (New York Post)
Bronx streets were blocked off twice last weekend while the NYPD investigated a parked SUV and another potential ”bomb threat.” (Daily News)
Lest the reader think threats to America are confined to the mean seats on Amtrack and the meaner streets of NYC, three other incidents were reported including “a threatening note” left behind in a Detroit bathroom, diverted three separate aircraft, a Dallas train station was evacuated after a man asked for help carrying parcels, four people were arrested for videotaping a TSA pat-down line in Denver, and TSA agents tried to sniff out explosives in a baby’s diaper at Kansas City International.
Anyone else get the feeling we’re overdoing security? Or, are we? May God forbid we return to the pre-9/11 lax security days but are we over-securing our country and our people and making America an intolerable place in which to live, work, and travel?
More importantly, how long does the government expect us to live, work, and travel under these conditions? If it’s for the duration as they used to say during World War Two, if so, how long is the duration? For as long as Islam threatens and attacks us? If that’s the case, our children, grandchildren, and their children and grandchildren may have to adapt to a system which is evolving into something little different than the old U.S.S.R. and Hitler’s brownshirts imposed on their citizenry.
As burdensome and depressing as that scenario is, there’s a more burdensome and depressing alternative, an alternative which involves America finally announcing to bloodthirsty terrorists of every stripe that we have had enough. In conjunction with our Western allies who would most probably not concur, we further announce we plan to win that war which our current president pretends does not exist, the worldwide War on Terrorism.
The costs of winning would be stupendous. The costs of losing could be stupefying.
This is where the alternative becomes most burdensome and depressing on Americans . . .
(Read more at http://www.genelalor.com/blog1/?p=4406)
This is one of the sillier arguments that has come up in recent years, and frankly I’m appalled that it’s being made here. Everyone, from Roger on down, is focussing exclusively on whether the President wanted Osama killed, and how long it took for him to decide to do it. The stupidity and shallowness of this opinion is breathtaking. The man had to make a decision to send actual soldiers, or Navy Seals anyway, into another country. If something had gone wrong during the mission, bin Laden hadn’t been there, guards had shot and killed or even worse wounded and/or captured one of the Seals, then I seriously doubt anyone, here or anywhere else, would be trying to argue that this wasn’t the President’s decision, and that this was somehow Panetta’s mistake, or Hilary Clinton’s, or someone else’s. If the President takes a while to make the decision to send troops into harm’s way, because he doesn’t feel the circumstances are exactly right *right now*, then that’s what he does. Frankly, we don’t yet know that much about the procedure they went through to make that decision (and I doubt we will, and believe we shouldn’t, know for some time) and I think arguing the minutae of what occurred counterproductive.
I’ve said repeatedly I’m no big fan of Ohama’s. The “gutsy call” website is to my mind on the level of the “Mission Accomplished” banner on the aircraft carrier (I must say I was horrified to see that; to my mind that sort of back-slapping should have been postponed until after the last soldier left Iraq). All of that being said, he took a considerable gamble and it paid off for him, and us, quite nicely. He gets credit for it. We should move on to the economy, the unemployment rate, energy policy, things like that (where I believe there’s a lot to criticise) and leave this one for the historians, years or decades from now.
Am I the only one who thinks Obambi is just cultivating a new birther-like issue? He’s just playing the right wing people into a new trap!
And when everybody is bashing Obamao for his ways regarding BinLaden, then, by 2012, Obama will release all the info because he calculates it’ll benefit him for the elections? Am I the only paranoid who thinks we should move on after the BinLaden dismissal and stay attacking Obomber just for the other issues? (like economy, jobs, energy etc)
Consider he was forced to blow up his own trap regarding birth certificate and he needs a new one to fool republicans in 2012.
Osama was an at-large, armed fugitive.
He was no more entitled to surrender than Charles Whitman was- maybe even less.
Let’s cut to the chase. Mr. President did nothing but say yes to the military plan that had been in the making for months or years. It is sad, at best, that this country elected this anti-American to its highest office.
FEDS OFFER $5,000,000 REWARD FOR SAIF AL-ADEL THE INBRED TERRORIST
Mark Joyner Simpleology-Seif Al Adel is the FBI’s newest terrorist who’s hiding in plain sight by posing as “the godfather” of internet marketing.
Google “Mark Joyner Simpleology-Seif Al Adel” and learn the secrets of the Al-Qaeda/New World Order organization. Skip reading domains of major media TV and radio websites.
COPY AND PASTE THIS MESSAGE BEFORE IT’S DELETED
For economy, I’m citing Tom Holsinger’s details but, I’m retaining my original contention that, Obama had UBL assassinated when, he easily could have had him captured tried,and imprisoned.It’s clear Americans have the technology to effect any outcome they desire.Any outcome imaginable. The assassination choice made the least sense. So there will be continuing controversy about the details of this operation no doubt.And of course the changing stories in the aftermath by the government is likely to obscure pertinent sensitive information the U.S. does not want disseminated now, or ever.
And as much as I hate to admit it,it could have been that one of his own got to him before the seals did, and I’ll admit that possibility thereby relieving Obama of an impeachment trial.But if it can be shown that he did order an assassination…he ought to be impeached for it.The 5th ammendment is the 5th ammendment.
In all of these conversations about Obama getting Bin Laden, has anyone thought to yourselves that the Bush clan might have known all along where this person was. Or at least some idea? http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO31A.html