One of the most amazing and disturbing videos I have ever seen. The action begins at 5:40.
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I watched the videos of Pipes in London speaking on the clash of civilizations at a conference organized by Mayor Ken Livingstone.
The audience was composed primarily of Muslims. To my surprise, his demeanor and his arguments won over many of them and he clearly won the debate.
The contrast with what happened at UCI is stunning. Where is the administration is all of this?
Ahhhh, mob violence. So sincere, so fresh and meaningful, so…west bank!
How long would those Chomsky chumps last in Fatahstan?
We are on the edge of a new holocaust, and the question is will the American left wing rally to Israel or will they sign on to their destruction.
I’m also anti-occupation – where’s their green card?
The “students” patting themselves on the back because their walk out “demoralized them (the audience), made them feel like crap… this is what we can do for now”.
The aspects of fanaticism, delusion and brainwashing on display in the video leads me to believe these are not “students”, not really.
Is this not crying fire in a crowded theater? At the very least.
Overheard around 12:00 or so: “Just a matter of time before Israel is wiped off the face of the earth”
Pretty soon after: chants of “Allahu Akbar”
These guys are not on the side of civilization.
Thanks, Roger. Seeing them in action, unscripted, is something entirely new, given that it is something the MSM will never show. It is a great way to energize the rest of us.
Repulsive. It’s shades of the Third Reich rather than what used to be an American college campus.
My God, when are we going to eradicate the leftist fascism that has overtaken our universities. The most dangerous place in this day and age to park your innocent 18 year old is in front of these radical anti-democratic faculties.
Is anyone listening?
What the MSM shows is stuff like Christianne Amanpour’s piece about a muslim man in Britian who says the extremists are hurting Islam. He works with muslim youth to convince them not to go in that direction.
That’s wonderful, and there ARE people out there doing things like that.
But that’s only one side of the story.
This. This. Is the other side.
I made a precipitous comment last night on the “Good cops, Bad cops” post. Today I felt somewhat bad for doing so. I should not have.
Well planned, rehearsed and executed demonstration. We are not fighting unsmart people. They probably know our constitution better than most native born citizens of this country.
I have mentioned my conundrum before. This is a country of freedom, especially religious freedom. It has been our main strength. Yet, if I had my druthers I would deny this religion any freedom whatsoever. I am unable to reconcile my appositive thoughts. I know there are good, well meaning, assimilated examples of this religion out there. But, no matter the percentage of those, they have no say in the doings of those that influence my views, as demonstrated in this video.
Call me crazy, naive or just plain stupid, if you like. But we are being destroyed from within. Our tolerance, our forbearance, our magnanimity, our proclivity for forgiveness, our openness, our professed yearning for inclusiveness, all such serve those who would see us destroyed.
I am not hysterical about this, I will be dead before there is direct impact on me. I have no children. I say this not in personal fear. Just fear for our country and its freedom.
Priorities.
I remember working for a German fellow back in the 19080s…he was a really good guy. He told me a humorous story about World War II and his little village. It seems that there was an old castle on the edge of town with some lovely grounds surrounding it. The lawns were verboten, however, to the feet.
When it was clear the Allies were on their way, the townsfolk mounted a defense and erected barriers to the tanks, their backs to the castle. When the Allies arrived, they simple went around the barricades and easily took the town, plowing over the castle’s grounds. The villagers realized, too late, that they were depending on the invading Allies to respect the “Keep Off The Grass” admonition in their defense. They never dreamt the attackers would come that way.
So it is with the incipient fascism in the West today. Everyone is waiting for the cartoon potbellied clown in the starched brown shirt and armband. No, it could never be that nice man in the keffiyeh shouting down the speaker…he’s a leftist, and thus deeply concerned with civil rights.
Even more disturbing is that elite American intellectuals ignore this reality and instead wage war of words against Evangelicals; calling them racists, homophobic, sexist, Islamophobic, brown-shirted Hilters.
Then Hollywood comes along to implant that bigoted image in the minds of ordinary Americans.
So many bloggers are freaking out about this video. I don’t get it.
Yes, they demonstrated and disrupted. But they mostly did so outside after disrupting the speech for the few minutes it took them to clear themselves out the hall. I’ll take issue with the End of Israel stuff, but that is the nature of Middle East propaganda. It’s death to everyone, all the time.
They didn’t rush the stage. They didn’t scream stuff like “Kill the Jews”. They stood up, made a lot of noise and quickly left.
There are dozens of worse speech disruptions on campuses every year.
Coordinated disruption considering how many seats were taken away from people who might have been interested in hearing what Pipes had to say but couldn’t get a seat because they were filled with people determined to end Israel.
“I’ll take issue with End of Israel stuff, but that is the nature of Middle East propaganda. It’s death to everyone, all the time”
But we should really worry about those evil evangelical brown-shirted Haliburton Hitlers and their evil well-oiled Taliban-like gay gulags lead by the evil neo-con theocrat BushCo who rapes bare-footed women forcing them to bare children for the reichregime!!!!
I’m not familiar with Pipes’ work. Is he actually suggesting the all Palestinians need to be “crushed” in order to send a message? Because that’s what it sounded like.
I’ll take issue with the End of Israel stuff, but that is the nature of Middle East propaganda. It’s death to everyone, all the time…
Well, since they say these things all the time, we are probably foolish to be concerned.
They couldn’t be serious.
Excuse me, I’m going to step outside and chant
DEATH TO STUPIDITY! DEATH TO WILLFUL BLINDNESS!
Please don’t take me seriously. I yell these things all the time. It’s only out of frustration. I’m just letting off steam.
Jamie Irons
“Well, since they say these things all the time, we are probably foolish to be concerned.”
The point is that THIS video is not the most amazing and disturbing video we have ever seen, not that their message should be of no concern. Sheesh.
In case you guys live in a cave, people have been screaming death to America and Israel for decades, on video and film. It was not an ugly scene, no one was attacked, no pie in the face, no chairs flying, no one felt in danger. It was over quickly.
It’s not this instance, but the sum of the parts….. Our bastion of liberal thinking – Higher Education, while still the envy of the world, must decide what is right or wrong. That is what they do every day in teaching science or philosophy(?), or have they forgotten their responsibility and become the pamphleteer?
“Is he actually suggesting the all Palestinians need to be “crushed” in order to send a message? Because that’s what it sounded like.”
I heard the same thing, in fact I thought I heard him say “utterly crush”. I can see an Israeli mother or father, burying a terror victim, saying that. But he does Israel no favors talking like that.
Maybe that is what Roger meant when he called it amazing and disturbing. Roger? Anyone want to compare what Pipes said to what the idiots said?
Yeah, I’m sure too that they were planning their chant before they heard a word of Pipes, but it does say something about freaking out about “End of Israel”, and not even noticing “crush the Palestinian people” (Except Bones, of course.)
In some ways more disturbing were the idiotic American students smiling, cheering and clapping the Muslim disruptors on.
newscaper: Are you sure? I thought that the kids in the foreground had started chanting some Israeli or Yiddish song to counter the protesters. I thought they were clapping in unison to a pro-Israeli song and laughing at the idiors.
I could be wrong. I couldn’t hear what they were saying/chanting, which is what made me think it was a foreign language.
In case you guys live in a cave…
In fact, I’m the guy on the left in the latest Geico “Caveman” commercial.
And I’m not amused by insensitivity.
Jamie Irons
“And I’m not amused by insensitivity.”
Neither am I amused by idiots like you who try to twist other’s remarks into something entirely different.
So to be clear, fuck you for being that type of despicable asshole.
looks like someone woke up on the wrong side of the rock
mikem, language like that not appreciated on my bandwidth. Take it elsewhere.
I’ve been reading Jamie’s words for years, and he’s one of the very last people who would twist someone’s words. Deliberately, anyway. That’s not to say he isn’t a little slow on the uptake from time to time. But, then, you know, Napa Valley (*cough*), hmm.
Buddy,
looks like someone woke up on the wrong side of the rock…
I think you got my meaning exactly.
…That’s not to say [Jamie] isn’t a little slow on the uptake from time to time. But, then, you know, Napa Valley (*cough*), hmm.
My doctor tells me I’ve got more than ten synapses that are firing, to use his words, “more or less regularly.”
He won’t commit himself as to whether I should ease up a bit on the wine…
Jamie Irons
Hey, anything over seven synapses is a bonus.
Sure, Roger. I can abide that.
Reading Jamie’s remarks, I wish you all could picture how it appears to others for you to be offended by my mild observation that this is not the worse instance of speech disruption I have seen on tape. Or that End of Israel is a rather mild type chant for anti-Israeli types. In no way did I show support for those sentiments.
Yet people like Jamie Irons declare my remarks insensitive. (I’m waiting for Poo to rush in from LGF to declare me, my parents and their parents to be Jew haters. I got that merely for defending someone who had said, quite politely, that not all criticism of Israel arises from anti-Semitism.)
On top of that, Bones points out that Pipes declared the need to crush the Palestinian people and not a peep from the uber unctious, ever so “sensitive” crowd.
Jamie Irons is not offended by insensitivity. He is offended by the notion that everyone doesn’t fall into lockstep agreement with Roger’s way over the top description of a speech disruption.
And in the end, as Bones noted, this is a case of both parties calling for the destruction of the other. Of course, the idiots call for the destruction of a nation, Pipes for the destruction of a people. I’m hoping supporters of Israel will condemn Pipes remarks about destroying the Palestinian people. Meanwhile, considering Jamie Irons’ one sided sensitivity, it’s not looking good for anti-bigotry.
Mikem, you make it sound like Pipes spoke of genocide, but that’s not what he said. He was talking about an absolutely clear military victory, and that is the only way there will be peace in that part of the world (or so goes his case). I happen to think he is right.
What war *ever* ended without one side feeling truly defeated? I can think of one: WWI, where the German people felt like they’d been tricked into signing peace accords. We know how that worked out: they just hadn’t got it out of their system–hence WWII.
The Palestinians will continue shelling Israel and sending suicide bombers until one side or the other clearly wins. And let’s be clear: the Palestinians (who live on other people’s handouts) cannot defeat Israel (a nation of creative, hard-working people). It is just not possible. So (as Pipes points out), the two possibilities are 1) the perpetual misery of the status quo, or 2) a decisive victory in favor of Israel.
*****
But rather than try to argue against Pipes’s case, you reframe his remarks and huffily call for us to condemn them.
Bostonian is right–the reason nobody jumped Pipes is because his argument is so familiar–made by many historians current and past, and verified by our own eyes. The war will go on until one side quits, says Pipes, and it doesn’t have to the Palis, either–it could be Israel.
Either forever war, or dismantle Israel, or “utterly crush” the Palis will-to-war, is Pipes’ point.
The reason the moral-equivalency alarm didn’t ring is because people here believe Israel is in the right.
Since she’s not trying to exterminate anyone, and her enemies are, since she can’t stop the war (except by surrender), and her enemies can (without surrender), why should anyone judge Pipes and the Irvine Jihadis in the same frame?
Tis all small talk. Anyone with half a brain knows our enemy. Now or later, their house or ours. It will be nasty. We will win. Unless we are defeated by our fifth column pacifist’s. As of now, they have the edge, as I see it. Blog’s do not connect to the great middle, for now. That is where the real fight is.
Unfortunately, it appears more likely than not that we WILL be defeated by the fifth column in our midst. Think of the libs surprise when they are the first to be buried up to their waists for stoning or lined up to have walls toppled over on them. But I’m a democract! I’m on your side!! It warms my heart to think of it, but the price of course is way way too high….
Israel will not win…because of the ascendence of modernday Neville Chamberlins (starting with Mr. W. J. Clinton when he forced Oslo/Dayton/Camp David II upon Israel). The EU and American liberal elites will force the surrender/destruction of Israel to asuage their misbegotten consciences over the 800,000 Palestinian refugees…forgetting about the 750,000 Jews who were forced from their millenia old communities in Arab countries (Iraq/Babylon, Tunisia, Jordan, Lebanon, etc.).
They don’t realize that the Israeli front is merely a small portion of the 1400 year old Ismamic Jihad against the West. Next will come more and more strident demands that Shariah Courts be recognized, then Shariah law be added to the legal codes of the West…and a downward spiral until there is no more West, or East for that matter, only a world-wide Caliphate…
Those students decry “occupation” yet ignore the simple fact that Israeli Arabs (yes there ARE those) have absolutely NO DESIRE to live under a Palestinian state…which by the way has been in existence for a year now (since the Isreali withdrawal from the Gaza Strip – the historical home of the Philistines = Palestinian = Pelishtim). They see what utter chaos, graft and embezzlement that constitutes the horrendous government the Palishtim have created for themselves, and want no part of it.
Mah Feesh Filastim
There is no Palestine…
Show me on a map…where is it?
What is Amazing and Disturbing is what when on when they all went outside.
To be honest, this seems tame. Protesters start shouting and leave the auditorium. I didn’t see any damage to the building and no one was roughed up. For goodness sake, the police at the back of the hall weren’t even slightly agitated.
In contrast, there were full-on riots at a soccer game in Italy over the weekend. The riots included bombs, flares, the tragic death of a policeman — now that’s an out-of-control riot. This is just a mild case of harrassment.
It’s no fun for the speaker of course, but I certainly wouldn’t classify it as amazing or disturbing. Personally, I’d classify it as a bunch of spoiled uni students playing dress-up and pretending to be a lot tougher than they are.
This kind of “student protest” is so easy, even a caveman can do it.
http://www.cavemanscrib.com/
“In contrast, there were full-on riots at a soccer game in Italy over the weekend. The riots included bombs, flares, the tragic death of a policeman — now that’s an out-of-control riot. This is just a mild case of harrassment.”
Your analogy is utterly absurd. In one case we have students at a major U.S. university attempting to shut down a speech by a respected scholar in order to further a political agenda. In the other we are talking about mindless violence at a sporting event.
That the students obviously planned their disruption beforehand in the manner of neo-fascists from the 1930s makes their actions that much worse.
“I’m waiting for Poo to rush in from LGF to declare me, my parents and their parents to be Jew haters.”
I take it that you too lend your support to a notorious anti-Semitic speech by Charles Lindbergh.
In this mad society in which we are currently living the greatest crime within the context of Jew-hatred is not actual anti-Semitism but the levelling of the charge of anti-Semitism. An individual, as in another thread, makes blatantly anti-Semitic remarks and the person who gets it in the neck is the same man who first calls him on it. Then along come the anti-Semite’s fellow travellers who attempt to dismiss the charge in exactly the same manner adopted by yourself. Well, I have news for you: you cannot innoculate yourself against an accusation of anti-Semitism merely by prefacing your remarks with an “oh well, I expect X, Y and Z are going to accuse me of anti-Semitism.”
The Holocaust occurred not merely due to the fact that the Nazis carried out the murder of millions of Jews with the almost complete and willing collaboration of most of Europe, but more importantly because millions of individuals like yourself in the free world defended the behaviour of the Nazis, or excused it, or downplayed it, or were completely indifferent to it. If you are anything to go by, and I’m sure you are, very little has obviously changed in the intervening years.
” ‘I’m waiting for Poo to rush in from LGF to declare me, my parents and their parents to be Jew haters.’
I take it that you too lend your support to a notorious anti-Semitic speech by Charles Lindbergh.”
Classic Poo style sequence. Laugh my a** off.
BTW, you and your haters have done a bang up job of marginalizing a brave, needed voice in Charles Johnson’s LGF. I despise you more for that than your childish hate rants. People who depended on LGF as a source for their own pro-Israeli comments are reluctant to link there because of you and your ilk. Way to go, Mr. Ego.
“That the students obviously planned their disruption beforehand in the manner of neo-fascists from the 1930s makes their actions that much worse.”
It’s worse than that Pooh. They wore shoes, much like facists did in the 30s. And some of them wore glasses, very similar to some of the very worst people in the 30s. And who knows, perhaps some of the protesters’ names began with H, just like some of the leaders of Nazi Germany.
If you compare everything to facists, the comparisons quickly lose their weight. Maybe you can save the comparisons for something which is actually bad, not just a bunch of university kids playing dress-up.