Norman Podhoretz channels Tom Paine in his latest essay for Commentary, “The Panic”. Regarding Iraq, Norman, as always, looks behind the curtain:
…my twofold guess is that the real fear behind it is not that we are losing but that we are winning, and that what has catalyzed this fear into a genuine panic is the realization that the chances of pulling off the proverbial feat of snatching an American defeat from the jaws of victory are rapidly running out.
PJ Media appreciates your comments that abide by the following guidelines:
1. Avoid profanities or foul language unless it is contained in a necessary quote or is relevant to the comment.
2. Stay on topic.
3. Disagree, but avoid ad hominem attacks.
4. Threats are treated seriously and reported to law enforcement.
5. Spam and advertising are not permitted in the comments area.
These guidelines are very general and cannot cover every possible situation. Please don't assume that PJ Media management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment. We reserve the right to filter or delete comments or to deny posting privileges entirely at our discretion. Please note that comments are reviewed by the editorial staff and may not be posted immediately. If you feel your comment was filtered inappropriately, please email us at story@pjmedia.com.
It *is* curious how the worry and panic about Iraq among Democrats is inversely proportional to the degree of success. Or maybe I just have the wrong idea of what the Democrats call success.
Certainly there are things in Iraq to worry about; dealing with Iranian influence and the Shia militias in the southern part of the country, for example. But such things, consequent to victory, are not the things that worry the Democrats.
The Democratic Partyís mainstream establishment is now the enemy of Western Civilization. It is literally more committed to the abstract principles of international elitism than our American Constitution. The radical leftists who were in their twenties during the 1960s are now fully grown middle aged adults. They have captured the levers of power in the Democratic Party, the MSM, and our major intellectual institutions. Indeed, they do want us to lose in Iraq. America is perceived to be evil. The terrorists in Iraq are the enemy of their enemy. And no, Iím not even slightly exaggerating. The situation is really that bad. Are they conscious traitors? Probably not. They may be comparable to the frog who is unaware of being slowly boiled alive. Perhaps I should engage in a little psycho-babble: they are not in touch with their feelings.
For some time, the boilerplate Democrat rejoinder to even the most tepid and civil counterarguments from the Republicans is “How dare you question my patriotism?”. I agree: for me there is no longer any question. Some of these people are clearly our enemies, and for the rest, patriotism is irrelevant. The will to (regain) power is all. They will say anything that they think generates partisan advantage, utterly heedless of its corrosive effect on morale, or even its coherence with previous positions they have taken.
I won’t promise to vote Republican in every case, but I believe it is very likely I’ll go to my grave without ever voting Democrat again.
ìI won’t promise to vote Republican in every case, but I believe it is very likely I’ll go to my grave without ever voting Democrat again.î
I am a convinced conservative Republican. You may therefore wish to take anything I say with a grain of salt. Nonetheless, I strongly urge people like yourself to start a new political party. It is against the law to assassinate oneís political opponents. You are allowed to merely marginalize them. That is simply going to be too difficult. The radical leftist establishment is solidly ensconced. You have no other realistic choice but to begin at square one.
“The Panic” better describes the fringe right’s reaction to 9/11:
Suspend Constitutional freedoms.
Increase an already bloated defense budget.
Invade a country that posed no threat to us.
You guys get your election next week and a few more months of U.S. support in Iraq. Why all the squealing?
I think the real reason is you are setting up excuses for when Iraq turns into a civil war torn puppet state of Iran:
It was the Democrats fault!
David,
You ask; “Are they conscious traitors?”
But you also say “America is perceived to be evil.”
I think that the conflict here goes to the left’s understanding of America. Think about what it means to be Japanese, or Arab or Russian, for that matter.
The identity belongs to the tribe or the land. No matter how long you live in Japan you will never be Japanese. No matter how long you live in SA you will never be an Arab.
But now think about the US. Anyone can become an American. Why? Because America is probably the only nationality on earth that does not do identity by the land or the tribe or the religion. You are an American if you come here (or are born here) and believe in the political philosophy represented by the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution.
Now the Left tries to equate Patriotism as attachment to the land NOT the philosophy. They are, as you say “…literally more committed to the abstract principles of international elitism than our American Constitution.” But, if being an American only means being born (or moving) here, you are not un-patriotic by disavowing the philosophy.
So they get to have there “I’m a patriot” cake; while eating it, in the form of hating all this American evil (aka the philosopy), too.
They alleviate their cognitive dissonance by redefining the terms.
Please don’t feed the troll! This latest spambot is about the stupidest and most tiresome ever to defile the comments section of this fine blog.
Any idea what the term, “stay the course” might mean, MB? Hint: We will prevail over our enemies, foreign and domestic.
I recently read David McCullogh’s 1776 and I noticed this quote myself.
The sunshine patriot indeed.
I think the Demcorats have a very limited arsenal, it includes:
Republicans are very very bad.
Raise taxes
Surrender.
For years they were the bear any burden party and actually stood up for the little guy, now they stand up for the little dictator and the panic they feel is the knowledge that they have been usurped from their role as liberator.
I recently read David McCullogh’s 1776 and I noticed this quote myself.
The sunshine patriot indeed.
I think the Demcorats have a very limited arsenal, it includes:
Republicans are very very bad.
Raise taxes
Surrender.
For years they were the bear any burden party and actually stood up for the little guy, now they stand up for the little dictator and the panic they feel is the knowledge that they have been usurped from their role as liberator.
Republicans are very very bad.
Raise taxes
Surrender.
Sounds French. All that is missing is the final option: collaborate.
Like the Republicans are the party of “vision.”
They have one goal:
Funnel as much government money to Republican front comapanies as possible.
The reasons they come up with to justify this goal come after the fact and frequently change.
ìThey alleviate their cognitive dissonance by redefining the terms.î
Your point is well taken. The hard left that has captured the Democratic Party does not perceive our American values as true and valid for all human beings everywhere on this planet. No, our Constitution and Declaration of Independence are deemed con jobs devised by white males to keep minorities powerless. Left-wingers may pay lip service to the writings of our founding fathers—but ultimately they believe these principles must be replaced by international utopian ideals.
Some people are wrongly persuaded that the leftists merely despise George W. Bush. I am going to pretend to possess the credentials of a psychiatric professional and declare that the president actually represents the American system which they so intensely hate. He is something of a father figure. Oh well, I may now be arrested for practicing medicine without a license. Such is life.
Chuck says,
“Certainly there are things in Iraq to worry about; dealing with Iranian influence and the Shia militias in the southern part of the country, for example. But such things, consequent to victory, are not the things that worry the Democrats.”
Hmm, what is it that worrys the Democrats, the Sunni inurgents in the middle part of the country? Sounds valid to me.
More chuck, “Sounds French. All that is missing is the final option: collaborate.”
Oh, dear, perhaps someone has forgotten that it was the French that helped us win our own independece from the British. Poor France, they help us win our independence, have to live next to Germany, and now, for the nerve of opposing the Iraq war, they become cowards. One wonders if the average blog commenter could match the courage of a French soldier on the front lines against Kaiser Wilhelm II’s forces.
The hand-wringing occurs most prominently prior to Iraqi elections. The nay-sayers say nothing about this and do not notice the irony of this. What- no Cook counties in Iraq?
“One wonders if the average blog commenter could match the courage of a French soldier on the front lines against Kaiser Wilhelm II’s forces.”
You are right Tofu,the Democrats would surrender on mass.
Three cheers for Podhoretz!
Three cheers for Podhoretz!
My goodness John,
Surely you’re not going to go on about the French two hundred plus years ago, are you?
A) that was the French MONARCHY not the people
B) they did it for their very own self interest to foil the true enemy, the Brits, and to try and consolidate their trade with the West Indies. You do remember self interest right? It’s that thing that is fine for everyone EXCEPT the US.
As far as Kaiser Bill goes, the French needed the Brits AND the US to stop him even though they were the “strongest” military in the world at the time. I think that you might want to temper your enthusiasm for the forefathers of the Vichy.
One wonders if the average blog commenter could match the courage of a French soldier on the front lines against Kaiser Wilhelm II’s forces.
Ah, but that was the old France, that France did not survive WWI. By the time WWII rolled around some 40% of the French were sympathetic to the fascists and the peace loving socialists were happy to throw in with Petain and wave adieu to Leon Blum as he was sent off to Auschwitz to be murdered. I admit that elements of the French SS division Charlemagne performed magnificently in the defense of Berlin during the Russians onslaught, but it was the dying gasp of the once great nation of France. Now it is Vichy redux. I can only hope for a revolution in which Marianne recovers her former glory.
AlanC
..and it was another bloody war that the French got us into,we should have let them fight it out.It was ironically called th Brothers War.
If Germany had achieved its territorial objectives,there would have been no Hitler,no WWII,no Iron Curtain,quite possibly no Leninist state.
Alan:
Not only that the French ran blockades to aid the Conferates in the Civil War. A lot of Europeans did.
I also read the John Adams by David McCullough and your point is well taken. The French even flirted with the notion of a puppet government in the Colonies.
They used the Americans. I am shocked, truly shocked.
It seems to me there was a significant mutiny among les poilus, but never mind.
Seriously large numbers of Democratic pundits have not yet dropped into CYA mode, which can only mean they believe the Podhoretz expectation is wrong, i.e., they actually believe the mindless doom they are preaching. Have we overlooked something?
I think it’s a slamdunk. Hotline calls running 4,500 monthly, versus 500 six months ago, according to Gen. Pace. Ergo, they’ve “tipped.” Real estate prices in Baghdad are high and rising, the dinar is rock solid, the bombers are relegated to soft targets, the folks in Remadi just turned in a bad one themselves, and everyone says turnout next week will surpass October’s.
We may see George W. Bush addressing the wildly cheering Iraqi parliament next summer, and then watch what happens in our elections. Ulysses Grant was nearly elected three times, and he took a few casualties, too.
Alan,
These are strange remarks. At what time did I say it was improper for the US to act in its own self interests? Secodly, it was never my claim that the French government, monarchy such as it was, was NOT acting in its own self interests. I was only objecting to the decision to question the courage, as a nation, of the very people who came to your own defense when your own nation was being born. That really is some pretty substantial ingratitude. It is similarly true that we saved the French when the Wehrmacht rolled over them. In fact, we have never been in the same war with France when we have NOT been on the same side. This makes them a longtime ally. Is it fair to disparage the entire nation simply becase they did not see the “wisdom” of invading Iraq?
Is it fair to disparage the entire nation simply becase they did not see the “wisdom” of invading Iraq?
Oh, right. It was all about “wisdom.” Not the French Eurabian strategy, oil money, and post-colonial influence. Nah, merely enlightened wisdom. Next thing you know, we will be subjected to visions of a virtuous France, wearing a crown of thorns, and ascending to heaven surrounded by clouds of fluttering cherubs.
“Unwise” and “cowardly” are not mutually exclusive categories.
So, it’s acceptable for the French to disparage us but not the reverse? Did we hurt their feelings? Where have all the Lafayettes gone? Apparently replaced by the Dominique “it’s not riots, just social unrest” de Villepins.
Barry,
I do not deny that there are plenty of valid reasons to criticise France and French policy. Charaterizing the entire nation as cowards or surrender monkeys, however, is utterly inaccurate and unwarranted given history. It seems to be in vogue as of late due solely to the unabashed opposition among both the government and the people of France to the Iraq war. Opposition to the Iraq war, hoerver, is not really a phenomenon unique to France. It spreads to majorities in most of Europe as well as the Americas.
It may not be fair, or accurate.
But it sure is fun!
And it really makes them mad, which is great because they really tick off most Americans.
Besides, we can now have great Shadenfreude when they have riots in the ghettos they built for their mistreated mostly-Muslim laborers. Heh heh heh!
I have lived in France. I like the place (or at least what it was like when I lived there).
But their public policies and political ideologies and statements stink to high heavens. They are almost as bad as the Russians.
So screw ‘em.
So France, a democracy that spent its money and blood to help bring America into existence, is now hated? No doubt the Iraqis will learn fast from you fringe right American ingrates.
How long will it take for America to be referred to as the Great Satan in the Potemkin Parliment we’ve spent a quarter of a trillion dollars to bring into being?
My guess is about a day.
Monkeyboy…
It was a very long time ago that France helped us, and that was because we were fighting their enemy.
On the other hand, we saved their bacon three times in the last century (the third was preventing the Soviets from overrunning western Europe).
But I don’t hate them. Their food is the best on earth. The people I dealt with were friendly. The language is interesting.
Mocking them, on the other hand, is… well… as I said… fun and deserved.
As for the Potemkin Parliament, ask the people who proudly displayed their inked fingers (after voting) to elect that body – people who risked their lives given stated threats by Al Qaeda against voters.
Potemkin my ass.
Now whether they end up Islamist… well, that’s a different issue. I would hope that we maintain enough influence (covert or otherwise) to prevent that… why fight a war to replace one enemy with another? Hillary would be dumb to let that happen in the 2009 Iraqi elections.
John Moore, waste not your intelligence on the Chomsky-ite moroon.
The majority of the posters on this site are too smart for the trolls who stop by. And in this case, we’re looking at a class-C, super-idjit, brick wall of a troll.
John, I don’t think they’ll end up Islamist, the Sunnis had a taste of that from their ‘friends’ and the Kurds and Shities (sp?) know that the Islamists hate them.
In fact, the Islamists are makeing lots of enemies in the Middle East lately. Too many soft targets have been Muslim.
Monkeyboy, it’s already been pointed out that it was the French monarchy that supported us during the Revolutionary War, as a move to distract the British. International politics hasn’t changed that much.
The French Revolution was perhaps the first Socalist revolution in modern times (depending on when you’re willing to call the start of ‘modern’), it certainly had many of the bloody features of later Marxist revolutions.
Followed by the exansionist imperialism of Napoleon. Any debt of gratitude we owed is owed to a government and society that ceased to exist long ago. And France’s behavour since the defeat of Napoleon doesn’t merit respect.
How easily the fringe right stabs its supporters in the back. Maybe France should pull her troops out of Afghanistan and take the Statue of Liberty back.
I remember when the Republicans were for balanced budgets, term limits, strong defense and opposed government corruption.
The fruit doesn’t fall far from the tree. No doubt whatever Cheney and Bush spawn this month in Iraq will soon be stabbing America in the back…
There does seem to be the distinct odor of a troll, crawled out from under its bridge.
“There does seem to be the distinct odor of a troll, crawled out from under its bridge.”
Yes indeed, John, and a stupider and more unworthy opponent doesn’t exist. I’m afraid it will only leave when everyone decides to ignore it.
“So France, a democracy that spent its money and blood to help bring America into existence, is now hated?”
Once again monkyboy proves what a complete ignoramus he is. France was not a democracy when it spent its “money and blood” two hundred years ago “to help bring America into existence”. By your same nitwit logic, we should be sending B-52s out right now to bomb Berlin since we were at war with Germany (twice) a hell of a lot more recently than France ever did anything for us.
Not to worry, though. It’s just us hook-nosed cosmopolitan Trotskyist neocon wire-pullers.
Last I checked, France was a democracy. Are U.S. puppet regimes the only real democracies to you guys?
The U.S. tends to forgive its enemies, Gary. Don’t go getting you bloodlust up.
France has been our ally since 1776. Let’s hope the umgrateful right doesn’t change that.
They have?
Which France might that be? In that time, France has changed from being a kingdom to a republic to an empire to a kingdom to another kingdom only different, to a republic to an empire back to a republic, been occupied by the Germans, back to a republic, collapsed, and formed another republic. And that’s simplifying things a great deal; I left out the convention, the directory, the consulate, the commune, and several abortive attempts at restoring the monarchy.
France hasn’t been anyone’s ally since 1776, not even their own.
John Moore.
It is either a troll,or the dog has been rolling in somethinh again.
Monkyboy is probably she,very reminiscent of DoubleStandard another piece of scumspam.
Nah, MB is okay–he’s just following his Great Leader in his love for the enlightened ways of the great leaders of Frahnce.
These pore fellers just can’t look up without seeing things that disgust them.
Buddy,
Was that picture taken before Tezza bought him the hair styler?
Har! Peter, wonder if MB is capable of coping with the several levels of message? The movie, released in 1940, was (among other things) a paen to a UN yet to come, a UN ideal, unsullied by the likes of Great Dictators from real (1940) to wannabee (21st century de Villepin/Napoleon), and delivered by a guy who spit in the eye of Right and Left both, but lived just fine, thank you, ungassed and head attached to body. So, if “Look Up, Hannah” is about the ideal of “heart” politics, and utterly abhors the thing that ‘leftism’ had even then become (tho not yet apparent to most in the west), then where does that leave the mental goose-steppers of today? Cloistered in education departments on the government quasi-teat desperately trying to subvert the laughing youths of, well, your country and mine, for starters. Sham, and almost comic. “Almost” because we are after all in the middle of a war, for cryinoutloud.
The “same” war, actually.
Commentary Magazine, IMHO, remains about the finest statement of conservative opinion around. Articles appearing therein are always provocative, and the magazine also entertains the right for disagreement in subsequent issues–thus, I take the magazine very seriously.
Norman Podhoretz (hmmm, Jewish sounding–do you suppose he is a -gasp- neocon?–like Wolfy? you all know how those JOOOOOS are) has simply explicated a very blatent political truth. In fact, that truth has been explicated by our two dissenters on this this thread. The opponents of the war in Iraq, at least as their arguments suggest are two-fold: Per Monkyboy (who is in desparate need of a remedial course in history) are that its costing too much money and we should be curing diarrhea in Africa instead–and Sochu John–who is much more articulate, but equally wrong: the outcome is going to fail because those arab types simply cannot overcome their tribalism or religious differences, the country will lapse into civil war and at worst the iranians will take over or the entity known as Iraq will fragment–
Wow–those are compelling reasons >sarcasm
RogerA–yes–they have resoundly answered the question “Am I my brother’s keeper?” The answer is “F**K, no!”
As opposed to the Republican motto, “I’m my brother’s keeper as long as there’s a buck in it:”
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=HAL&t=2y
You poor, beknighted Eloie, HAL does one-of-a-kind infrastructure work, LBJ used ‘em as Brown & Root, Clinton used ‘em mightily, Cheney is one one of tens of thousands of employees past & present, widows and orphans depend on the stock, it has only tracked the energy complex as a whole, it keeps Uncle Sam from having to keep an equivalent gov’t force standing at magnitudes the cost, RONCE is in the middle of the industry, why not look at it instead of sucking the Koolaide, and why not buy some stock and give your profit to charity?
“I’m my brother’s keeper as long as there’s a banana in it:”…and pan to tyre hanging from a tree.
Well, the evil DeMSM flagship NYTimes today has a report on Iraq that leaves me with some hope that Iraq just might be moving in the right direction, by hook or by crook, and that all is not lost:
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/11/international/middleeast/11campaign.htmlf
Maybe Democrats have been wrong to preach that Bush’s adventure has taken us to the depths of the abyss. Nevertheless, the cost of Iraq remains high: hundreds of billion of taxpayers dollars, thousands of dead Americans, many thousands more fated to spend the rest of their life without a limb or two. And the benefits remain so uncertain, particularly with the prospect of newly-sovereign Iraq drawing closer to Iranian mullahs.
Finally, David Thomsen and others remain mystified about the Bush hatred, with Thomsen going so far as to speculate that he “represents the American system which [leftists] so intensely hate.” Actually, we hate him because he’s a walking jackhole, as Tucker Carlson himself discovered back in 1999. How can anyone read this and not agree?:
http://www.slate.com/id/2131451/
And the benefits remain so uncertain, particularly with the prospect of newly-sovereign Iraq drawing closer to Iranian mullahs.
This is quite a leap the Left makes.
The shia in Iraq and Iran have many tribal connections. That does not mean a connection to the ruling Mullahs.
In fact, the closer Iraqi shia become to their Iranian brethren, the more likely there will be an uprising in Iran to overthrow the hardliner Mullahs there.
“How can anyone read this and not agree?”
Well, some of us have heard of Ricky Lee Rector.
A few caluclations with generous right wing assumptions:
Probability Iraq will remain a democracy – 50%
Probability an Iraqi democracy would be “friendly” to the U.S. and our allies – 50%
Probability of a favorable outcome in Iraq = .5 x .5 = 25%
Probability that Republican front companies have made tens of billions of dollars on this misadventure – 100%
No doubt in Republican crony circles, Iraq is known as “The Sure Thing”
…and as this recedes into the distance, never to come so close again, the wailing and gnashing of teeth among the Eloi is SO hilarious!
Captain Hate — Unlike Bush, no one ever accused Clinton of mocking Rector’s clemency appeals. (Rector, BTW, was braindamaged in the course of committing the murder, not beforehand.)
Syl — it seems that it is the foreign policy realists that are worried the most about strengthened Iraqi ties with Iran, not the Left.
Do you have an iota of evidence for your prediction that “the closer Iraqi shia become to their Iranian brethren, the more likely there will be an uprising in Iran to overthrow the hardliner Mullahs there”?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/16/AR2005071601165.html
Ha ha ha…”Tucker Carlson HIMSELF discovered back in 1999″…oh, ha ha…jeeez…my eyes are watering…why don’t you just start singing “Daisy”, Markus? Reeeal slooowly….
Yes–lets have some iotas of data–hard data, like the probabilities that the teacher’s assistant managed to scrawl above…oh, sh*t…Tucker Carlson…the Carlson Evidence…oh ha ha ha…oh damn…I wet my pants….
Perhaps one of the fringe right would offer up their odds of:
Iraq remaining a democracy when the U.S. pulls out – ???
An Iraqi democracy being friendly to U.S. interests – ???
I think 50% or higher for either of these is a fantasy, but…
Markus
Yes. His name is Sistani.
MB, is this what you mean?
12 g C 1 mol C
3.14 g CO2 ——– ——— = 0.0714 mol C
44 g CO2 12 g C
2 g H 1 mol H
1.29 g H2O ——– ——— = 0.143 mol H
18 g H2O 1 g H
I think i’m starting to get it!
Buddy,
Are you saying that Markus is none other than
Mark Garrity,late troll of this parish?
Well, I DO have that “iota” of evidence he keeps hollerin’ fer!
Could he br “monyboy”, too? Nahhh…MB ain’t up to snuff, the Mark-Complex is mush mo’ astute.
speaking of up to snuff–my typing ain’t.
“Captain Hate — Unlike Bush, no one ever accused Clinton of mocking Rector’s clemency appeals.”
No but no one ever accused Bush of executing Karla Faye Tucker to prove to voters during an election campaign that he was tough on crime. Is your (and Timothy Noah’s) point that you’d prefer to have a more sensitive person in office to discuss clemency appeals with reporters? Somehow I don’t see Howard Dean being able to craft a successful campaign with that as a cornerstone. Although given his recent statements it might be the most lucid idea that we should expect.
Anyway there’s another thread on “Tookie” Williams where the protocols of clemency appeals can be better discussed.
Sorry, Hate–you’re right–I’ll quit goofing up the thread.
What tees me off is how the left throws around words like “debacle” and “quagmire” to describe a war that has, in reality, been incredibly successful. Weíre 2-3 years ahead of schedule on reconstruction and itís all been done with less cost and fewer casualties than any analyst predicted. Donald Rumsfeld deserves a lot of credit, though the leftwing media will never give it to him.
Karla Faye,the leftists dream girl http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/women/tucker/1.html
OK, Doug, that comment needs response, “Weíre 2-3 years ahead of schedule on reconstruction and itís all been done with less cost and fewer casualties than any analyst predicted.”
You must be joking. Administration analysis had reconstruction costing us $1.8 billion. It was supposed to cost $50-95 billion all told, war, reconstruction and all. The war was also not supposed to last more than a year. Do you want me to start quoting administration officials on this? If you want to claim that this war has been successful, we can discuss it. If you want to claim that it has been done quicker and cheaper than any analyst predicted, that’s just demonstratably false.
“Administration analysis had reconstruction costing us $1.8 billion.”
That was subtracting off long term oil revenues. For all we know, when those factored in, it could end up costing that little. Or we could even “break even” on the whole thing.
Current cost of the Iraq War is $277 billion.
World War 2 cost the U.S. $2.5 trillion in real dollars.
Estimated cost for Iraq next year is $100 billion.
Exxon may get a nice chunk of Iraq’s future oil revenues , but the U.S. government won’t see a dime of it.
That’s why they’re called “special” interests.
Ain’t no U.S. interests in Iraq.
911 cost a couple trillion, in direct costs, and that again in opportunity costs. Another 911, and the implicit promise of more and more of them that a repeat would make, would so shatter the global trade and economic system that dollars wouldn’t be robust enough to even calculate the costs.
There have been no repeats because our troops are a sand-line over from the secret-police organizations that are most likely–in order to keep the M1-A1 out of firing range–riding herd on alQaeda to stand down for awhile.
But then, MB, you didn’t have to jump off a skyscraper with your skin on fire, and you’re not “in” the war or the economy in any way that you’re equipped to comprehend, so I don’t expect that matters of this nature much concern your motives.
We don’t know why there haven’t been anymore attacks on the U.S., Buddy. You’re just guessing.
Osama bin Laden asked the U.S. to remove its troops from Saudi Arabia and we did so in 2003. For all we know, that is why we haven’t been attacked again.
“911 cost a couple trillion, in direct costs, and that again in opportunity costs. Another 911, and the implicit promise of more and more of them that a repeat would make, would so shatter the global trade and economic system that dollars wouldn’t be robust enough to even calculate the costs.”
The total figure I’ve heard on 911 is 12-15 trillion. And a repeat attack would cost twice as much, as you say, because of the effect on global trade.
The bottom line is were attacked, in effect, under Clinton. We haven’t been attacked under Bush. I happen to think that toppling Saddam has got a lot to with that.
Hehe, Dougj, the fantasy life of the greedy right exposed.
9/11 happened under Bush and he had ample warning to stop it.
Clinton has EIGHT YEARS to get Osama and Saddam and he did nothing. Now we’ve got Saddam in chains and Osama on the run, and the nation is safer for it.
Moreover, Bush has a Plan For Victory in Iraq. Not surrender, not cut and run, but victory. Total victory. No excuses, no compromises. Complete victory. Murtha and Pelosi have a Plan For Surrender. Guess which one the voters prefer.
Hint: It ain’t surrender.
mb, doug is actually on your side. dougj, you’ve already been busted at tom mcguire’s place.
MB, after writing a thousand posts full of ‘percent’ this and ‘percent’ that precision-guided airball guesses, you have the noive to tell me that a position shared by considerable numbers of terrorism experts as well as plain old folks who don’t have to stick their hand in the fire a second time to know it burns, is “just guessing”?
“Hehe, Dougj, the fantasy life of the greedy right exposed.”
You left out racist, homophobic, religious zealot, stupid, and calculating. Hey, keep up with your Lenin 101, comrade!
So,let us get this straight Monkybongs,on the one hand it was all about oil,Halliburton and MONEY.
And on the other hand the war is costing vast amounts and no one is making money?
This would seem to be the central contradiction of the left,arguing from two polar opposites,is it the drugs?
Nah, Peter, no contradiction–the diff is in whether the Kommissar has the gold locked up in the police station, or whether the fricken Kulaks still have a crust of bread for their babies.
“So,let us get this straight Monkybongs,on the one hand it was all about oil,Halliburton and MONEY.
And on the other hand the war is costing vast amounts and no one is making money?”
Well played, Peter. You skewer the left’s internally inconsistent arguments like a master.
Here’s another contradiction: the left loves to talk about “torture” in Abu Ghraib but was happy to lend tacit support to Saddam, whose torture chambers made the glorified fraternity pranks of Abu Ghraib look like, well, fraternity pranks.
Re Peter, well, that lot DID invent the language, after all.
As Elvis said, “thangyoo verimush”!
Gee, Haliburton stock is just about where it was in 1998. Yep, the war has been good for them…
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=HAL&t=my&l=on&z=m&q=l&c=
And anymore news like the following will be a sure sign of death-throws for democracy in Iraq…
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051211/wl_nm/iraq_election_insurgents_dc_1
Unfair, Keith. Stalin’s photo-erasing wizards have regretably passed away, and any further fact-checking is not fair to Moankyboy and the anti-VRWConspiracy lonely-hearts-club band.