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Ex Oriente

July 1st, 2014 - 4:57 am

The most interesting overnight news is that former French president Nicolas Sarkozy has been “held for questioning” by police investigating allegations that he tried to influence a judge investigating a illegal contributions to his campaign. Under French law a person can be “held” for up to 48 hours without being charged. “This is thought to be the first time a French former head of state has been held in police custody.”  It’s not the first time a French president has been in legal trouble. Jacques Chirac was actually convicted of embezzlement, but they suspended the sentence and let the grand lad go free.

The judges were looking into alleged illegal campaign contributions from Muhammar Khadaffy – the former Duck of Death. In order to obtain possible proof that Sarkozy was trying to pull strings investigators resorted to the tried and tested method of wiretapping.

Mr Sarkozy is alleged to have been helped to victory in 2007 with up to €50 million provided by Colonel Gaddafi and envelopes stuffed with cash from France’s richest woman, L’Oreal heiress Liliane Bettencourt. …

It was in connection with [the Khadaffy investigation] that the judges last year obtained the unprecedented authorization to tap the phones of a former president. After four fruitless months they discovered that Mr Sarkozy had a secret phone registered under an assumed name and it was conversations with Mr Herzog recorded on that device that triggered the investigation.

Leaked excerpts suggest Mr Sarkozy got a friendly judge to try to influence the outcome of confidential legal deliberations related to the Bettencourt case in return for support in securing a lucrative post in Monaco.

Now they are questioning Sarkozy to determine whether what he said on his secret phone. Alas, the Duck is not available for comment. Khadaffy was toppled in NATO operation led by Barack Obama, David Cameron and Nicolas Sarkozy. He was caught in an attempt to escape and was killed in still mysterious circumstances. The known account of his demise is found in Wikipedia.

After the fall of Tripoli to forces of the opposition National Transitional Council (NTC) in August 2011, Gaddafi and his family fled the Libyan capital. …

At around 08:30 local time (06:30 UTC) on 20 October, Gaddafi, his army chief Abu-Bakr Yunis Jabr, his security chief Mansour Dhao, and a group of loyalists attempted to escape in a convoy of 75 vehicles. A Royal Air Force reconnaissance aircraft spotted the convoy moving at high speed, after NATO forces intercepted a satellite phone call made by Gaddafi. …

A U.S. Predator drone operated from a base near Las Vegas fired the first missiles at the convoy, hitting its target about 3 kilometres (2 mi) west of Sirte. Moments later, French Air Force’s Rafale fighter jets continued the bombing. The NATO bombing immobilized much of the convoy and killed dozens of loyalist fighters. Following the first strike, some 20 vehicles broke away from the main group and continued moving south. A second NATO airstrike damaged or destroyed 10 of these vehicles. According to the Financial Times, Free Libya units on the ground also struck the convoy….

Gaddafi survived the strikes and took refuge in a large drainage pipe with several bodyguards. … A group of rebels approached the pipe where Gaddafi was hiding and ordered him to come out, which he did, albeit slowly. …

Gaddafi was killed shortly afterwards. … Several videos related to the death were broadcast by news channels and circulated via the internet. The first shows footage of Gaddafi alive, his face and shirt bloodied, stumbling and being dragged toward an ambulance by armed men chanting “God is great” in Arabic. The video appears to picture Gaddafi being poked or stabbed in the rear “with some kind of stick or knife” …

In late September 2012, reports erupted about the involvement of French secret services in the tracking and killing of Muammar Gaddafi. According to some sources, Gaddafi was in fact killed by a French spy who infiltrated the mob of rebels that captured Gaddafi, and shot him in the head after his capture. The motive for the operation was said to be to prevent Gaddafi from being interrogated and revealing his highly suspicious links with French President Nicolas Sarkozy.

His body was exhibited for days in a meat freezer.

The suggestion is that Khadaffy “bought” Sarkozy; and when the arrangement was threatened with exposure it is hinted that Sarkozy, with the witting or unwitting help of Obama and Cameron, may have tied up loose ends. So far nothing has been proved.

Khadaffy, being only a middle tier oil-rich dictator, could only afford to buy a middle-tier Western country like France. It is fortunate that no other Middle Eastern potentates have made attempts to purchase Western politicians.  One wonders who Saudi Arabia, with its deeper pockets, would try to buy? Maybe they’d try Germany.

The Saudi lobby in Washington is said to be very influential with both political parties and too many people in that town never met a dollar they didn’t like. In today’s Vox, Ezra Klein writes of unease about the provenance of the Clinton stash.  ”The problem isn’t that the Clintons are rich, it’s where the money came from, ” Klein says.  The Clinton speaking fees are apparently comparative peanuts. The big bucks comes from people who don’t even have to listen. Klein says:

The real money — and the really tricky sponsors — have been flowing into the Clinton Global Initiative.

CGI’s funders were initially hard to track, but as part of a deal with the Obama administration, Clinton opened the books. Donors included the government of Saudi Arabia, Norway, Kuwait, Qatar, Brunei, Oman, Italy and Jamaica. The Blackwater Training Center threw in $10-25,000, and there were big donations from Citigroup, Lehman Brothers, AIG, and Goldman Sachs.

As Klein himself notes, it is fortunate that the Clintons are so incorruptible or we’d be in trouble.  He writes “it’s a reasonable argument to say that that cash did more for the world in Clinton’s hands than in Qatar’s coffers. But it’s also reasonable to wonder whether Qatar donated that money to make sure they had a relationship with Clinton if they ever needed one.”

The media focuses Americans on big things, like whether or not Hobby Lobby should be compelled to pay for birth control or what Kim Kardashian is wearing today. In France their Gallic counterparts are similarly guided to the grave question of whether L’Oreal’s actions can pass the smell test.  And as for the rest … well let’s see what the French police have to say. It would have been nice to ask the late Duck of Death what the deal was. But the Duck made a wrong turn somewhere in the desert, and was never seen again, though at least now everyone’s the wiser for the experience.

Recent items of interest by Belmont readers based on Amazon click-throughs.

Second Watch: A J. P. Beaumont Novel
The Russian: Three Complete Novels (The Russian Trilogy)
Rebranding Christianity (The World of Information)
Shattered Sword: The Untold Story of the Battle of Midway
Quantum: Einstein, Bohr, and the Great Debate about the Nature of Reality
Storm Over The South China Sea
With the Old Breed: At Peleliu and Okinawa

Did you know that you can purchase some of these books and pamphlets by Richard Fernandez and share them with you friends? They will receive a link in their email and it will automatically give them access to a Kindle reader on their smartphone, computer or even as a web-readable document.

The War of the Words for $3.99, Understanding the crisis of the early 21st century in terms of information corruption in the financial, security and political spheres
Rebranding Christianity for $3.99, or why the truth shall make you free
The Three Conjectures at Amazon Kindle for $1.99, reflections on terrorism and the nuclear age
Storming the Castle at Amazon Kindle for $3.99, why government should get small
No Way In at Amazon Kindle $8.95, print $9.99. Fiction. A flight into peril, flashbacks to underground action.
Storm Over the South China Sea $0.99, how China is restarting history in the Pacific
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Top Rated Comments   
Obama and Sarkozy whispering about having to deal with Netanyahu.

Two criminals talking about a patriot. To this minute there is not a clear answer for why the "peacenik" Obama, whose weakness unleashed the implosion of the Middle East...was so hell bent on taking out Gaddafi.

Libya posed virtually ZERO threat to US interests. We had no obvious geopolitical gain in mind.

The dirty underdealings with the Muslim Brotherhood and the gun running operations all over the world to all sorts of slimy groups....leaves a trail of breadcrumbs and dead bodies from Benghazi to Baghdad.

And beyond.

Our spectacularly incurious media has thrown a Woodstock Jihad blanket over every and any attempt to do investigative reporting on the murky and corrupt dirty dealings of the Jarrett Presidency and this cabal.

Sharyl Attkisson was effectively fired for trying by the Siblings and Spouses Mafia Media.

What is underneath all this is pure evil. At least the French make a show of trying to keep some semblance of honor.

America? Right now we couldn't find honor in our weaponized agencies pointed against our own citizens with both hands and a flashlight.
34 weeks ago
34 weeks ago Link To Comment
I will ask the obvious:

If Sarkozy, why not Obama?

Those campaign credit card payments to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars, where the application question box of whether it came from a foreigner was turned off, have long been mighty suspect.

Now the Sarkozy payments seem to verify what many have long thought - Buraq's kinetic action in Libya - was a mob hit by the international oligarch mob parties to silence Khadaffi and likely for not just Sarkozy's benefit.
34 weeks ago
34 weeks ago Link To Comment
Ghaddafi rented Sarkozy and for his trouble and expense Sarkozy had Ghaddafi eliminated. Heinlein's definition of an honest politician is one who stays bought. Some tools are to dangerous to use. If you pick them up they turn out to be guns that shoot in both directions.

What is the downside for such duplicity? If a politician gets the reputation for such betrayal then it should make it less likely that others will do business with him in the future. More it might make it harder for other politicians seeking a market value for their reputations. In other words by betraying Ghaddafi Sarkozy, who may have thought that he was safely retired, made life harder for politicians still in the game. That is a reason to pursue him. Those other politicians though would also benefit from the concept of sanctuary at retirement, and may be induced to hobble the course of justice as they did with Chirac.

If the word gets out that politicians can be held liable after the fact then panic might set in. Where could Clinton Gore Obama and the rest of the Democrats run to? China may finally find tenants for their empty cities.

The upside of this is that the delightful Ms Bruni may be back on the market.
34 weeks ago
34 weeks ago Link To Comment
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buddy, your effort to make a logical,worthwhile point is laudable and appreciated, but I fear you're inevitably destined to run into the wall of the typical human dogged, irrational need most people have to feel like they have "the truth" all wrapped up in a nice and neat package/narrative that doesn't threaten their worldview.

As a result they find it really difficult to approach an "issue" with a "just the facts", "connect the dots" and "let the chips fall where they may" attitude. ;-) When your attempts to engage in an examination of the facts/data/information leads to conclusions which contradict the comfortable narrative, the conversation usually devolves into allusions and insinuations of "tin foil hattery" which are designed to shut down discussion and investigation. IOW, "normal" human behavior.

I don't wish to abuse our host's generosity with a lengthy OT discussion, though, so I'll just say thank you for the gentle reminders in your last post of information and sources that have been forgotten by most, and how they provide data points which would be extremely helpful in finding the truth of what happened if only people would connect the dots, except that doing so would threaten that comfortable narrative to which they so tenaciously cling.

Specifically, with regard to McVeigh and whether he might have added additional information if he had lived longer, the answer is perhaps, but most likely perhaps not. From all information available, including McVeigh's own words, there were two factors that made it unlikely he's have more to say. First, he considered himself a soldier in a cause and accepted that he might have to give his life for that, and second, he had a younger sister and it's entirely possible he made a deal to keep silent and die in order to protect her.

Of course, as you pointed out, we'll never know now. However, the other factor at play is that further information from McVeigh himself was unnecessary to establish that there were others involved in the incident (and not just Nichols and Fortier. You mentioned several good sources, and I'd like to suggest one more that makes a compelling case that more than two or three domestic players were involved and that there was indeed a foreign component present as well.

That would be Jayna Davis' investigation and subsequent book:
The Third Terrorist: The Middle East Connection to the Oklahoma City Bombing by Jayna Davis,

The bottom line is that no one who honestly studies her book and the other sources you listed here can possibly believe that the official government narrative is the truth. That is not to say that she or any one of those others are completely right or accurate in every detail. That is not necessary. All that is necessary for these other investigators to do, and which they have amply done in instance after instance, is to demonstrate that the official narrative is a lie.

That is the logic trap that those who toss around the "C" word or "tinfoil" insinuations use to sidestep telling the truth and attempt to discredit anyone who challenges them. On the contrary, it is the responsibility of our government to tell the truth and protect its citizens. The burden of proof is on them and when they are caught in a single lie it is they who have discredited themselves. Unfortunately, logical reasoning is no longer a skill possessed by the majority of Americans. If it were not so sad, and dangerous, it would be hilarious. :-)
34 weeks ago
34 weeks ago Link To Comment
Tharkun, thanks for the --uh, thanks you thanked ...oh hell skip it. (LOL) But i think RC2 is not coming from a closed mind there, i think --and we probably both agree with him --that enough's enough about OKC, that there's bigger fish to fry now (boy, IS there!) and to dig back into the clouds of murk is harmful if not simply useless.

That said, you hit on the two big bells, the Jayna Davis investigation (which is the meat of the Freeper URL i linked, tho you wouldn't have noticed that on a quick scan, due to the crabbed text with too little white space), and the other is the speculative reasoning on why if there was more to the case than the govt claimed, why wouldn't either of the convicted have said anything by now, or before he was ececuted in McVeigh's case. It's sort of a tautology, but the more likely there were other agents involved, the less likely these two family memn would ever talk, as it's almost axiomatic that the threat to the family members was real. Davis in fact comes close to making that very claim in an oblique manner, that McVeigh wanted his family to never know he was a traitor to his country, but wanted to maintain the patriot rebel pose. Somebody close to TM must've told her that; her research indicates she is not the sort to do 'advocacy journalism'.

Which lines up what i was trying to say about 'time decay'. Saddam fell in 2003, only two years after TM was executed. Presumably his secret agent force, or at least the funding for it, fell too. Plus little sis would over time get older and maybe marry and move to Louisiana and live on one of them bayou houseboats with no address. She would've just needed some time to lull any watchers both legal and otherwise, so she could slide off in the gray area. Same with Nichols' family --time breaks down those virtual-hostage threats --humans just don't have the energy or dedication once the thrill or the cash is gone. Remember, if you're a foreign agent watching a virtual hostage to keep the bro in stir quiet, you also have to guard that hostage against a third party --say someone from the victim families --deciding to take an eye for an eye, and thus letting loose the canary in the perp in the prison.

Anyhoo --say, i'm sure glad you're back up and running --i know it was touch & go there for awhile --

And RC2 is right --i'm just jackin' my jaws, and it's unbecoming. Let sleeping dogs sleep, and all.
34 weeks ago
34 weeks ago Link To Comment
PS --well, the hypocrite returneth, after the pledge to sign off. But here, here is what may be at the bottom of why the Davis report fell down the memory hole:
34 weeks ago
34 weeks ago Link To Comment
Thanks for the link to that article, buddy. It's another confirmation of our take on "these issues" ;-) and illustrates that the problem has been perceived for much longer than the meager coverage in the public discourse would imply. It is certainly one of the factors which explains why Davis' efforts came to naught.

re: your previous comment, I agree that trying to revive the OKC zombie at this late date is an exercise in futility EXCEPT in the sense that it's useful to mention it as an illustration of the bigger fish... er... larger problem of the inability (or refusal) of majority of the populace to see that the same types of deception and manipulation of perception is going on with the current issues of the day. IOW, the players and the issues may change but the game remains the same (LOL). As to letting sleeping dogs sleep, we might as well, since the circling alligators are a much more serious problem right now...

Thanks also for your kind personal comment. You are, have been and always will be a true Texian gentleman. It's good to have a brief respite from some of my ongoing difficulties, but it will pass all too soon. The important thing is to remember to be thankful for the Grace of God and whatever time we're given, and the wonderful people we're privileged to know.
34 weeks ago
34 weeks ago Link To Comment
All i can say is "good show!" --and keep hanging in there, the wonderously dumb-ass 'attaboy' de riguer! But cliches are cliches because they are true.

And OKC --the loose ends of it, if there are any (i add in due respect to RC2's position), are mightily apt insofar as the House of Clinton bids fair return.

I scarce remember a time, a brief, shining moment in green arcadia, when green was just a color and no Clintons were engraving hellish grafitti on the inside arch of my skull.

There's one other name, besides Jayna Davis. Kenneth Michael Trentadue.

I couldn't recall the name, only the fact that the facts floored me when i read them a few years ago.

I put into search --well you see, it's the link:

At that search page, besides the wiki (always a good place to start, keeping in mind the Wiki bias) there's a youtube, 41:12 long. I'm pretty sure it's the one which blew me outta my socks a while back.

Anyhoo --yes io know, i said i'd shaddup about the case. But that case --the Trentadue case --is a major leg of the revisionist take, and anyone who wants to let sleeping dogs sleep ought to know that the Trentadue case is one of the sleeping dogs --one ought to know what one is ignoring, when that route is taken, i think.
33 weeks ago
33 weeks ago Link To Comment
If you search the guy's name and add Eric Holder (kenneth michael trentadue eric holder) you'll see whaty many call Holder's 'first coverup'. So in that way, OKC is still a happening thing.
33 weeks ago
33 weeks ago Link To Comment
buddy said, re McVeigh, "he probably had more to say, had he been marinated awhile longer to allow more time decay to whatever shadow checks and balances there might have been keeping McVeigh quiet thru his execution."

Probably he didn't have more to say--that's my belief. Based on the evidence--or, rather, the significant lack thereof--I don't believe there was any connection between him and any Middle Easterners. Nor do I believe that "marinating" in prison for a while longer would have loosened his tongue. The man was not going to talk; and, facing execution, he still did not talk. Because, I contend, he really had nothing more to say. Terry Nichols has been marinating in prison every since his trial and he's going to stay there until the day he dies, and although he's tried to add some spice to the stew, no one's buying it, and rightly so.
34 weeks ago
34 weeks ago Link To Comment
RC2, i hear ya on the tin hattery, but here's why in my opinion it's not that worthless a thing to be bringing up:

ISIS crisis is white hot right now. We do not know what's coming at us, if anything.

The ISIS situation is a direct result of the Obama Skedaddle. The Obama Skedaddle was politically doable because the support for OIF itself had been steadily worn down by the steady build of assertion from the left that Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11 so the whole MENA intervention was pointless all along.

So that meme, one could say, has put us where we are now, that is, in a quandary with no good next step, even tho we are fast losing every scrap of influence we have in MENA, and thus our ability to continue the world trade in dollarized USN-guaranteed delivery anywhere to any buyer of oil contracted in US markets.

We're now in quickly-increasing danger of facing a hostile cartel of price-controlling oil producers that are not divided as before, with US in the middle controlling safe, insurable global distribution, but united against us and determined to transfer as much wealth from west to east as possible, behind the Russian & Chinese missile and naval shield.

So that no-state-terrorism meme has been incredibly destructive. and it's not as if the truth hasn't been spoken:

It's that it has been spiked, buried, drowned under the political attack that must've been seeing a Vietnam opportunity in MENA.

Just look at Ramzi Yousef and Khalid Shaikh Mohammed. Yousef masterminded the 1993 WTC bombing and Mohammed the 9/11 attack, and they have always been presented as Uncle Khalid and Nephew Ramzi, the Kuwaiti AQ members who plotted together on the postponed Bojinga attacks on 12 US airliners simultaneously et cetera, and on both the two actual attacks (tho Yousef's 1995 capture cut him off short from Uncle Khalid's progression into the 9/11 attack).

What the public has been presented with is, three different attacks, WTC1, OKC, WTC2.

OKC as strictly a domestic terrorist, white supremacist attack by a US Army vet and a disgruntled farmer, both pissed off about Waco.

And the two WTC attacks as mounted by a family of Kuwaiti (what ingrates, after the Gulf War I liberated their home country --why, maybe Saddam was RIGHT to've invaded them!) AQ under Osama bin Laden control.

Not a whisper about Saddam, or Iraq. No John Doe 2 at OKC, the case wrapped up with Nichols and McVeigh and a few family and friends a little bit involved as witnesses before the fact.

But there's a huge amount of evidence (anyone can see it and evaluate it --youtubes esp with normal-looking people asking very pointed factual questions) that all three attacks were made by Iraqi intelligence agents under Saddam Hussein.

And all of it swept under the rug by US intelligence, with the two OKC perps incommunicado during the investigation and then again after conviction, and additionally denied access to their lawyers except under specific judge-decided writ. Nichols may still be without any channel to say anything at all to the outside world --so we wouldn't even know if he's talking or not. The defense lawyers are who blew the whistle about Ramzi Yousef and Nichols meeting in Cebu in the Phillipines --and the federal response was to accuse them of spinning wild stories trying to manipulate opinion about the crime.

There's tons of material from credible sources reporting private investigations of elements of the story --private because the feds have pronounced the case closed, and have cut off the crime's witness voices and closed the books.

And left half-informed or actually mis-informed as to the quality of the finality of the case report, the world and most especially the American public opinion that might've prevented the Obama skedaddle from ever getting off the drawing boards.

Here's just one early tilt at the windmill, from 2002 --it sounds like that last thing that could ever disappear, but disappear it did.

Also disappeared and only retrieved by private sources noticing back page perfunctory beat reports, that Kuwaiti family wasn't a Kuwaiti family at all, but still uniodentified Paki Baluch carrying stolen Kuwaiti papers, stolen during Saddam's temporary control of Kuwaiti records. --Yousef and KSM, Paki Baluch --and there is a long tradition of Baluch inside Saddam's secret service.

So, the hiding of all the evidence pointing to Iraq making the three attacks, was the deligitimizing of Gulf War II (AKA OIF), and here we are, with the future and fate of the world in the balance and at extreme risk, for no reason at all but politics-infested state security organizations. Thank you, Bill, and yes we'd love to have your wife finish us off.
34 weeks ago
34 weeks ago Link To Comment
MC: "Today for us, the Europeans of the "old Europe", Putin appear as a more sane leader than your empty suits ..."

Sadly, Marie Claire, that is the same way it seems to a very large number of Americans. Putin is looking out for the interests of Russia & Russians, for which we can all respect him. Sarkozy, Barrie, Lil' Davie Cameroon, Angie Merkle are (to a greater or lesser extent) looking out of the interests of the Political Class, of which they are all members.

So, who are the winners going to be in the current round of shenanigans? Russia & China, of course. Not the USA, unfortunately -- and not France or any of the other "Old Europeans".

Not much more than 100 years ago, the Russian court spoke French. This time around, the French ruling class will speak Russian. Welcome to a post-American world!
34 weeks ago
34 weeks ago Link To Comment
I don't think the story holds up --Gaddafi had plenty of time to identify what Sarkozy would've been up to, and he would've sung like a bird, under the premise that Sark was afraid he'd talk.

That he didn't talk would then mean that Sark had wrongfully attacked, which --in that event --would've CAUSED the very thing that Sark wrongly suspected.

That would've been like giving very long odds on a very big bet --on a coin-flip.

Also, putting that many eggs in the basket of an assassin --himself a security risk (via either/and/or capture/outing/double-cross/et cetera) unless he was working for a very plausible and reliable cut-out --an assassin whose mission depended on an impossible-to-predict or control desert encounter under combined combat/riot/crowd conditions, is a plan no one would make.

There IS a case of something like that that ought to be kept alive for Americans contemplating Hillary as president --why was Timothy McVeigh executed on a fast-track many times faster than the normal duration on death row, on such a specious grounds as ''the victim families needed closure"?
34 weeks ago
34 weeks ago Link To Comment
McVeigh was executed four years after his conviction (1997/2001). Another domestic terrorist and mass murderer (and a black man and a Muslim), John Allen Muhammed, was executed just three years after his conviction (2006/2009). In either case justice was for once relatively swift, and for what I believe were similar reasons: their crimes were deemed especially heinous (and rightfully so), their was no ambiguity as to whether they committed them, and they could not and did not put up much of a fight to overturn their sentences or delay their carrying out.
34 weeks ago
34 weeks ago Link To Comment
Yes but at least in McVeigh's case there was immense uncertainty about whether he had really worked alone. Had things waited just another few months past 9/11, the curiosity about his potential accomplices might have earned him some clemency, if he was able to share.

If you want to see "What difference, at this point, does it make?" put into action, just look at McVeigh's relatively rapid execution.
34 weeks ago
34 weeks ago Link To Comment
That's what i was trying to say --not that he may've been wrongly executed, but that he probably had more to say, had he been marinated awhile longer to allow more time decay to whatever shadow checks and balances there might have been keeping McVeigh quiet thru his execution. For example, this is from 2001, i think just days after 9/11: which the thrust is to ridicule the idea of any connection between the two attacks OKC and WTC.Then, from 2006, look at this: i rest my case, on the opportunity cost of the June 11, 2001 execution date.But i'm not trying to rake up some big conspiracy theory --i'm just saying that once a guy is dead, he's gone for good, and whatever effect 9/11 (three months after his execution) might've had to wake up the former soldier and turn on his mouth, was gone forever, and only for the effect of swift justice at the expense of a prize informational asset on ice.
34 weeks ago
34 weeks ago Link To Comment
damn --i edited and when it reposted, all the paragraphs and links were ass to elbow. oh well. PJM soft wear.
34 weeks ago
34 weeks ago Link To Comment
(here's my previous the way it was supposed to read)

That's what i was trying to say --not that he may've been wrongly executed, but that he probably had more to say, had he been marinated awhile longer to allow more time decay to whatever shadow checks and balances there might have been keeping McVeigh quiet thru his execution.

For example, this is from 2001, i think just days after 9/11:

In which the thrust is to ridicule the idea of any connection between the two attacks OKC and WTC.

Then, from 2006, look at this:

...and i rest my case, on the opportunity cost of the June 11, 2001 execution date.

But i'm not trying to rake up some big conspiracy theory --i'm just saying that once a guy is dead, he's gone for good, and whatever effect 9/11 (three months after his execution) might've had to wake up the former soldier and turn on his mouth, was gone forever, and only for the effect of swift justice at the expense of a prize informational asset on ice.
34 weeks ago
34 weeks ago Link To Comment
PS, and as far as Nichols and Yousef being both alive and thus the info if any about the connection if any, is still recoverable, well, it's not, as the two guys have been cellmates and adjacent cellmates at Supermax in Colorado all this time, and could have cooked up any elaborate story between them --thus true or not it'd never have any credibility. Bill Clinton and/or his DoJ should've kept those two seperated rather than sharing a crapper in stir.
34 weeks ago
34 weeks ago Link To Comment
Could have, might have, etc.: you're one step away from tinfoil hat territory. Of course, your conjectures and speculations are plausible, and it's impossible for me to prove a negative, but I'm not buying it. Four things you can count on as inevitable: death, the German counterattack, all massacres have survivors, and all conspiracies, if they exist, will unravel and be revealed. This one won't be revealed because it doesn't exist.
34 weeks ago
34 weeks ago Link To Comment
It was known that McVeigh didn't act alone: he was working with Terry Nichols and Michael Fortier, who were convicted as co-conspirators in the Oklahoma City bombing. Fortier's wife was also involved, and she testified for the prosecution and received immunity for doing so. In the event, McVeigh had plenty of time to avail himself of the opportunity to seek clemency by talking about his accomplices. But he wasn't going to talk and he didn't talk, and no one was going to force him to talk. Not that he had anything new or unknown to reveal. So, justice was served.
34 weeks ago
34 weeks ago Link To Comment
The Saudi lobby in Washington is said to be very influential with both political parties

In 1980, there were 10 madrases in Pakistan. Today there are 13,000. The madrases in Pakistan and all over the world--serve as the mouth of the funnel for Al Qaeda jihads. The money to pay for the madrases comes from the gulf oil states. If anyone ever wanted shut down the flow of Al Qaeda operatives to terrorist activities --then the key is to shut down the madrases. The way that is done is by shutting down the flow of money to the madrases. The way that\'s done is to kill the price of oil. Because oil money is what fuels the madrases.

ISIS raises the danger to a whole new level because ISIS will sooner or later aim for the oil fields in the south of Iraq. They won\'t be content to remain in the sunni areas. There are a whole lot of tactical things that need to be done. But the strategic solution is still the same. Kill the price of oil.

The roots of recent Russian resurgence are in oil. This article explains it,
while explaining how Reagan defeated the Soviets with oil the first time.. William Safire also has small story to tell which Putin referenced recently when he signed the giant gas deal with the Chinese. And again, the strategic solution today to Russian resurgence is the same as in Reagan\'s time. Kill the price of oil.

The gulf states need at least $90@ barrel to run their countries. Take the price of oil down to $35@ barrel and the gulf states won\'t have any money to spare for madrases.

That\'s actually going to happen in about 15-20 years.

Why? Because oil is priced so high its given an opportunity for alternative fuels and expensive fracking techniques. The USA is thinking strategically in this regard--but strategic policy is coming from the American people themselves and not from the federal government.

Natural gas is already lower priced. In the USA now there is a 200 year supply of natural gas. So fuel oil for houses trains trucks and buses will be steadily displaced in the USA--by natural gas over the next 5-20 years. For the last two years natural gas trucks and buses on the road have increased about 25% annually. But they\'re coming off such a small base that they won\'t have any influence on demand for another five years. Maybe more. But when the number of natural gas trucks buses trains and houses becomes significant-- that cut in demand will put significant downward pressure on the price of oil.

Further out, high cost oil gives high cost electric cars the opportunity to get a foothold on the market. While the work of Tesla is important we won\'t know how that works out until they get their battery factory in operation. And then we won\'t know for sure about their success until we find out whether they can produce an electric car for 35k that goes 250 miles on a charge. That\'s supposed to happen about 1017. If they succeed--and the stock price of Tesla suggests that the market appears convinced that they will succeed--then all the major car companies world wide will be forced into the electric car business and the demand for oil will go to $35@ barrel and below. That\'s the destination for oil. But even that won\'t happen for another 15-20 years.

I\'m a huge fan of oil fracking. High priced oil has given frackers a chance to produce millions of barrels of oil a day that otherwise would have been impossible. I believe fracking is doing all kinds of good things from keeping the US economy --and the dollar-- afloat to shrinking the federal deficit and trade deficit. The US Energy Information Agency (EIA) predicts that the USA will produce another million barrels @ day in 2014 and 2015. After that US oil production will rise at least another 500k annually through 2019. At that point the USA will become oil independent.

However, currently there is so much worldwide demand for oil and so many other oil fields around the world where oil supply is flat or declining -- that for the next five years or so it will be everything American drillers can do to keep up with demand.

People have already talked to death the things the federal government can but won\'t do like allowing drilling on federal lands or converting military trucks, buses and car pools to natural gas.

There is one thing that the feds in general and the military in particular could get involved in. That\'s Liquid Flouride Thorium Reactor research. These are portable 4th generation nuclear reactors. There is currently a world wide race to be the first to prototype this reactor since it was initially prototyped in the Oak Ridge Laboratories in the late 1960\'s. The potential of this reactor is that it will make energy so cheap that it will completely wipe out oil from any energy calculus.

From Wikipedia:

“Thorium could provide a clean and effectively limitless source of power while allaying al
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Liquid Flouride Thorium Reactor=Liquid Fluoride Thorium Reactor
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The added advantage is that because of all the Fluoride-Toothpaste protesters, we will have a lot more Fluoride available for the LFTRs!

(I gotta remember: "U before O in Fluoride," otherwise my spell checker keeps zapping my seat! I thought I was a better speller...)

On the other hand, you could probably evacuate a major city with the threat of a "Fluoride - Dirty Bomb..."
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Thorium; noun, a theorum requiring prod using.
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From Wikipedia:

“Thorium could provide a clean and effectively limitless source of power while allaying all public concern—weapons proliferation, radioactive pollution, toxic waste, and fuel [that is -- uranium for light water reactors] that is both costly and complicated to process.[16]:13

From an economics viewpoint, U.K. business editor Ambrose Evans-Pritchard writes that “Obama could kill fossil fuels overnight with a nuclear dash for thorium,” suggesting a “new Manhattan Project,” and adding, “If it works, Manhattan II could restore American optimism and strategic leadership at a stroke …”[25] Moir and Teller estimated in 2004 that the cost for their recommended prototype would be “well under $1 billion with operation costs likely on the order of $100 million per year,” and as a result a “large-scale nuclear power plan” usable by many countries could be set up within a decade.[5]
The Alvin Weinberg Foundation is a London-based charity advocating for Gen IV reactors and thorium fuel, lists seven current international MSR projects: Ian Scott's Moltex project in the UK, Elsa Merle-Lecotte's EVOL project in France, the US Transatomic Power project, David LeBlanc's Terrestrial Energy project in Canada, Kirk Sorensen's Flibe Energy project in the USA, Motoyasu Kinoshita's Fuji Reactor project in Japan, and Hongjie Xu's MSR Project in China.

(I should add that both Taylor Wilson and Bill Gates have similar projects going as well--which can burn spent nuclear fuel. However, Bill Gates design is not an LFTR design.)

Alas, the Chinese have the pole position in this race. After walking into the USA and getting the plans for the reactor from the Oak Ridge Laboratories several years ago--they plan to have their first prototype up and running next year. They'll do it for under 1 billion dollars. They are being helped by the US Dept of Energy!

The way the US military could do this job would be to reallocate funds intended for the failed plutonium processing plant in Savanna River and use those funds to develop liquid fluoride thorium reactors (LFTR) because "LFTRs only require input of uranium or plutonium to kick-start the initial nuclear reaction, and as the fissionable material can come from either spent fuel rods or old nuclear warheads, LFTRs will inevitably be used as janitors to clean up nuclear waste."

That is the LFTR reactors will be able to do immensely more than the plutonium processing plant in Savanna River for immensely less.

Four companies I mentioned above including Flibe Transatomic as well as Taylor Wilson and Bill Gates-- could receive funding from diverted funds so that they could get started.

Bill Gates firm doesn't actually need the money. HIs company is already well funded by Gates himself. Gates company Terrapower is currently pulling every available nuclear engineer from MIT and Cal Poly for the job.

As well, the Canadian company-- Terrestrial Energy --is already well funded by the Canadian government.

4th Generation LFTR nuclear reactors are going to happen. But as of now, like the rest of American strategic energy planning in this regard--they will happen without the help of the US government--and sometimes despite the US government.

This is not to say that the US government does not have energy policies. There is a green energy policy to move over to green fuels. There is another policy by the pentagon to gradually move American military bases off the grid with portable nuclear reactors. There is a navy effort underway currently to turn salt water into fuel so that American ships at sea never have to refuel. All of these efforts are to varying degrees laudable. But they don't address the strategic issue of the day that wins wars-- which is to kill the price oil.

What's strange is that it wasn't just Reagan who understood how strategic oil is to war fighting. Also the men who fought WWII understood. When the Germans crossed the Ardennes forest in the battle of the Bulge in December 1944 --their plan was to seize a supply depots along the way because they couldn't provide fuel for their own tanks. Similarly the Japanese launched their greatest battleship the Yamamoto in a one way kamikaze strike against Okinawa in 1945, because they only had enough fuel for a one way trip. The Germans were out of fuel because the US had engaged in strategic bombing against all their oil refineries. The Japanese were out of fuel because the US had engaged in strategic submarine warfare against their supply ships and because US forces cut off Japanese access to their oil fields in Indonesia.

Given the history of American strategic use of oil to get victory in both WWII and the Cold War, its astounding that the USA has not actively sought to collapse the price of oil against what are after all, as John McCain calls them...gas station countries.
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I just returned from a train trip from DC to the Bay Area and back. The return leg was from Seattle via Montana and N. Dakota. Our otherwise mostly on time trip was 15.5 hours late into Chicago...N. D. freight rail traffic, machinery in, oil out, is so massive that real traffic jams occur for the entire length of the run.

Freight rail is like trucks, when the train is full, it is displaced, schedules only apply to passenger rail, kinda sorta.

Crew rest is an issue as well.

Regardless, Amtrak excursions are great fun for she who must be obeyed an me. We enjoy being pampered and reading and chatting and napping and having lots of just us time.

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--wow --that's a TRIP! I is green wif envy --
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dispatched, not displaced
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I don't care, i'm still green with envy.
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Let's not forget methane hydrates in Alaska and the Gulf of Mexico

A Bush-Cheney Green Energy Project That May Increase America's Proven Natural Gas Reserves by a Factor of 100

"Globally and for the U.S., methane hydrates represent a potentially huge new source of the cleanest fossil fuel. A recent Minerals Management Service study estimated methane hydrate resources in the Gulf of Mexico at 21,000 trillion cubic feet (TCF), one hundred times the current U.S. proved reserves of natural gas. Hydrate accumulations off the Pacific and Atlantic coasts and on Alaska's North Slope (ANS) hold additional potential. Yet this potential will remain untapped unless a technically and economically viable means of producing methane from hydrates is found. "
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Maybe there are others besides this fiddler who needed to re-check: Methane Hydrate is also referred to as Methane Clathrate, methane ice, hydromethane, natural gas hydrate, and fire ice.

Simply, it is frozen Methane with water molecules trapped in its crystalline structure. It collects in huge layers in some regions of the benthic ocean floor, and sometimes --- it has been theorized --- some seismic tremor or heat vent disturbs a deposit, which then releases methane as a gas. Some folks reckon that a column of methane gas bubbles arriving at the ocean's surface in sufficient quantity could overwhelm a large ship, and allow it to suddenly sink like a stone, because of its sudden decrease in relative buoyancy.

That is, in a mass of foamy bubbles, the volume displaced by the ship no longer balances its own mass, and it drops like Wile E. Coyote.

Although there is no consensus on precisely how the methane forms and collects, there seems to be general agreement (among those who speculate on this subject) that (1) There is a hell of a lot of this stuff on the ocean floors, and (2) that it is constantly being formed and deposited throughout the oceans, albeit at a very gradual rate.

I'm guessing volcanic vents in the depths.

By the way, Huffington post published an article on 3-12-13 (by way of Reuters) about Japan's first-ever methane hydrate MINING operations.
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Washington Times

"Quinnipiac found 45 percent of voters say the country would have been better off if Mr. Romney, the 2012 GOP nominee, had been election, while just 38 percent say Mr. Obama remains a better choice. Even Democrats aren’t so sure — just 74 percent of them told the pollsters Mr. Obama was clearly the better pick in the last election.

Voters also rate him the worst president since World War II, topping even his predecessor, President George W. Bush, who had left office with terrible ratings.

“Over the span of 69 years of American history and 12 presidencies, President Barack Obama finds himself with President George W. Bush at the bottom of the popularity barrel,” said Tim Malloy, assistant director of the Quinnipiac University Poll."
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One has to wonder about our future. The old line Mafiosi used to kill people who double crossed them.
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O/T - The Ukraine goes on the offensive.

"Ukraine pressed ahead with a military offensive against pro-Russia militants in the east Wednesday, saying it has inflicted heavy losses since the operation resumed but that rebels are still attacking border checkpoints.

Kiev is pushing to oust the insurgents after choosing not to extend a faltering cease-fire Monday, focusing on reclaiming a porous border with Russia to stem the flow of weapons and fighters.

"The armed forces and the national guard are continuing an active offensive," Parliamentary Speaker Oleksandr Turchynov told the chamber Wednesday, according to the Interfax news agency. "Our forces' actions are effective and yielding results."

Ukraine's army came under attack 19 times in the last 24 hours, killing three servicemen and injuring 10, a spokesman for Ukraine's Security and Defense Council said Wednesday, Interfax reported. The border patrol reported that a guard was killed. Separatists haven't commented on the fighting.

The fighting comes as the foreign ministers of Russia, Ukraine, Germany, and France are set to meet in Berlin, with the goal of agreeing to cooperation between Russia and Ukraine on border controls, according to a person with knowledge of the situation.

Earlier this week the four nations discussed proposals for Ukrainian and Russian officers to jointly retake control of crossings occupied by separatist rebels on the Ukrainian side of the border.

The West says Russia hasn't done enough to get the separatists to lay down their arms or to stop heavy weapons from crossing the border. The U.S. and allies have threatened Russia with new rounds of sanctions if Moscow doesn't stay away from the fight."
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I don't know how Sarkozy will play out in la belle France. If true, his actions are about as appealing as a big plate of poulet caoutchouc avec sauce huile de merde, and seems like it will have an effect on the French electorate. Good for them.

I do know that there is literally nothing that could cause the people who voted for Obama to stop supporting him, or prevent them from voting for Hillary or Warren in 2016. As long as the Democrat in power promises that magic government checks will never be altered those people receiving them - welfare, pensioners, government workers, and grant/subsidy recipients at all levels of government - will vote for the Democrat in every election every time, even if the Democrat were to advocate for sending believers in limited government to concentration camps and torturing them to death, followed by confiscation of their wealth and property. The government dependent will be joined by the NPR-listening pseudointellectual crowd (lots of overlap there, to be sure) who want to wipe out believers in authentic Christianity and limited government and would do so even if there were no financial incentive to do so.

That's where we are in the U.S. today. One more presidential election cycle controlled by Democrats and we will see this come to pass.

God help us all.
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Re: concentration camps, they can try but it will not turn out like Germany in the 1940s thanks to the 2nd amendment. And if they try to confiscate weapons, it will have the same result. I firmly believe that. Any NPR listener who wants to take mine are welcome to try, just ensure your affairs are in order. It is in our DNA.
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The acronym for the Clinton Global Initiative is CGI. In Hollywood CGI stands for "computer-generated imagery." In the above story, CGI might also stand for "cash-generated influence."
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hi, Starling --you must mention this CGI, too!

Oddly enough, under the circumstances of this thread, a French company, or at least French-Canadian, the name being some long oo-la-la frenchie-lingo with the initials of C, G, & I.
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