“I Want the World And Everything In It!”
CBS news reports on the conditions Hamas is setting to stop firing on Israel. “Emboldened by Arab support and confident in their arsenal, the Islamists say calm can only come if Israel opens the gates of the tiny, closed-off territory.” In other words, allows us to import more weapons and in return we promise not to shoot them at you.
“We will not accept a cease-fire until the occupation (Israel) meets our conditions,” said Izzat Rishaq, a senior Hamas official who is involved in the cease-fire efforts in Cairo.
Free movement of people and goods in and out of Gaza is seen as vital for Hamas’ continued control of Gaza.
Both Israel and Egypt’s new leader have eased access to the territory since 2007, but many restrictions remain. But even Morsi — who is sympathetic to Hamas as a fellow member of the region-wide Muslim Brotherhood — has resisted Hamas calls for open trade between Gaza and Egypt. Morsi fears such ties could undercut attempts to set up a Palestinian state in Gaza and the West Bank, the territory on the other side of Israel, where Abbas has partial control.
Will Israel agree to cutting its own throat? Maybe, maybe not. One thing’s for sure: the dice is now rolling. It looks like the Left got what they wanted in Gaza. The only question is: will they like it.
Maybe they will like it as much as Dr. Frankenstein liked his creation. The Weekly Standard says that based on reports “Hamas rejects ceasefire; decision for ground invasion coming soon”. Of course they could always change their minds and we could all Buy the World a Coke. But the clock is ticking.
The question for the diplomats is now if they cannot control the political fallout now, when the exchange is limited to rockets, how will they manage if the IDF goes into Gaza? The anti-Israeli rhetoric threatens to take on a life of its own. Morsi will be compelled to live up to his own words. The Muslim Brotherhood “Street” may demand it. The Western Left will be forced to match its fiery anti-Israeli screeds with even more fiery screeds. And Israel will be forced to defend itself, with bullets and high explosive, alas. And by the way, Anderson Cooper and whole pile of celebrity journalists are in Gaza.
The terrible “ifs” accumulate. A fuse has been lit and we still don’t know if anyone can blow it out. In a previous post I wrote that such an event would force Obama to choose between his ‘Arab Spring’ policy and the alliance with Israel.
As the previous post noted, if Obama thinks he has troubles now they will be nothing compared to what may happen if the IDF goes into Gaza on the ground. Then he can no longer have it both ways. He will either have to bring Israel under control or quell the objections of Egypt, Turkey and the Arab world. Turkey is in a position to increase its traditional influence over the area at the expense of Obama. And Obama has the opportunity to continue whatever it is that he’s been doing.
Secret diplomacy. What promises has president Obama made that we know about to the same degree that we know about Benghazi?
The Ludwig von Mises Institute discusses how “secret diplomacy” led directly to the Great War. “Small powerful parties in France, Britain, and Russia all pushed for war and created secret treaties amongst each other. As Ralph Raico has pointed out, English foreign policy was dominated by a small, secret clique no more answerable to Parliament and the people than a dictatorship like Nazi Germany.”
You mean like Hillary, Barack and Valerie Jarrett?
If you are getting a sinking feeling in your stomach about now, perhaps you should. “The potential collision between Egypt and Israel over Gaza now threatens to catch him [Obama] between two fires. A collision between the two American “allies” will force him to reap the bitter fruit of trying to be all things to all men; of trying to support the Brotherhood, with its hostility to Israel — and Israel. He will have to square the circle or openly choose sides in a way that not even the New York Times can conceal.”
For once a crisis is brewing which no amount of bribery — offers of arms to Israel or food and money to Egypt — can long forestall. The true bill for the lies at Benghazi and the entire “Arab Spring” enterprise may no longer be avoided. At long last some answers must be provided. How deep is the administration’s partnership with the Muslim Brotherhood? Just what did the assault on U.S. consulates throughout the region truly portend? Is there substantial opposition to the policy of dealing with the Muslim Brotherhood from within American intelligence agencies or the military?
We’ll soon find out. One can only hope we like the answers. Egypt is about one strong push from collapsing into economic ruin and chaos; Syria is ripped apart by civil war; Jordan is convulsed with unrest. In Lebanon every hostile side is eyeing the other with suspicion. And as for Libya, well what about Libya? This can only mean that now is the time to make sure that film-maker from LA doesn’t post any more videos to YouTube.
The Three Conjectures at Amazon Kindle for $1.99
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…Israel cannot long keep their reserves activated and doing nothing, as it is very disruptive to their economy. Settle or invade.
As all here know, I am not a nice person. And I bet they can all figure out what thought crossed my mind.
Subotai Bahadur
Oh, bribery still works. They can all be bribed, I have no doubt of that.
It is just that once you start paying the bribes, it will only become a steeper bill. There will be no end to the blood money. Think of the immense needs of Egypt just to stay afloat and not collapse into starvation. That’s where Uncle Sugar and His Nibs Barack can step in with more phoney American dollars and wheat and grain from our farms (which will feed inflation just a bit more).
And yet, I doubt that Israel will enter Gaza. I think that this too is a negotiating point. Israel gets something out of this, stays out of Gaza, they all declare they won something, and then it all starts up again in 6 months.
Perhaps at that point, Obama will have even less political clout.
I do not understand why Western diplomats keep viewing the Middle East through a Western lens. The Islamic mind is wired completely differently and does not respond to what the West believes are reasonable arguments and incentives.
Well, whatever side Obama chooses – or even if he just decides to vote “present” – he will catch no hell from the Bernie Madoff jew contingent who voted for him.
The terrible “ifs” accumulate.
If you tolerate games, you get games.
That’s the problem with Israel’s forebearance over the decades, it was never really likely to produce even a steady-state, much less an improvement. OTOH it wasn’t really forebearance if Israel lacked the political capital to do more. And that’s the story, in short.
==
Jihad is institutionalized, low-intensity warfare – and also a great way to burn off your excess population, especially the not too bright variety.
The problem is jihad with missiles, gets out of hand, is out of hand on day one. Now, imagine jihad with nukes. There y’go.
Niven and Pournelle explored some of this kind of logic in their book “Mote in God’s Eye”, resource utilization aspects, overpopulation aspects, and getting out of control aspects. The Motie “mediator” class was evolved to talk instead of fight whenever possible, because without them it always went directly to fight. The problem with cultural and tribal Islam is that you can have all the mediators you like, and nobody lives up to their agreements, not “masters” and not “warriors”. Moties were superlative engineers and mediators – and warriors. Islam is exactly the opposite. Which is ironic, as in the story the analogy is made explicitly to Arab culture via the Levantine character Horace Bury – “the war of all against all, and I nearly caused it!”. One will note the book was written in 1974, long before the first Gulf War, the Intifada, the second Gulf War, or the Arab Spring. Even before the Soviets in Afghanistan, much less the US. Also before the Iranian revolution and US hostage crisis. For that matter, presumably before the Munich massacre as well? Er, no, that was 1972. Well, it doesn’t seem to figure in.
(the sequel “The Gripping Hand” written in 1993 is pretty much consistent with the 1974 assumptions, I can’t think of any plot elements that would seem to reflect intervening real-world events. both books are outstandingly good, btw, in their own right).
–
Do I guess that the title quote is supposed to be Tony Montana in Scarface, but I was just watching the movie 300, and the stunted Greek character Ephialtes is being bribed by Xerxes, he too wants it all – plus a uniform! He even argues with Leonidas that surrender is rational, advantageous, take the bribe, be the satrap, play the game, survive the day. Actually, I don’t seem to be going anywhere with this, but it just happened to tick.
And yet, I doubt that Israel will enter Gaza.
I don’t think Israel wants this and intended all along to bluff. The problem is that it may not be up to them. Unless Egypt can positively control Hamas the odds are that as soon as the IDF demobilizes the reserves they’ll start up the rockets again. They can’t help it. It’s a treachery-a-day world. They’ll feel bad, sick even, unless they double cross someone on a regular basis.
About the only way Hamas isn’t going to launch rockets is if they can’t. Unless Morsi can come up with something to guarantee compliance Hamas will feel a compulsion to betray. And then even Morsi might double-cross Israel. Why not? He might want to know what it feels like.
So the game payoff matrix is set up in such a way that the “trust the other guy” move is a MaxiMin move. A stupid move. The only way to get a stable agreement in the region is to get a responsible partner. Not a thug outfit like Hamas. This is the key problem. You can’t make an agreement with a pathological liar.
they’ll start up the rockets again.
Have they stopped? That’s not my understanding.
It seems to have developed into a statement that they want to make that they continue firing rockets indefinitely, and they seem to have a sufficient supply for who knows how long.
I don’t think Israel wants to go in, and of course I’ve ranted about the vastly superior alternative of standing off and pounding Gaza instead. But I think they may need to go in to make their own kind of statement, and maybe even to give the jihadis the excuse they need to stop.
Yet, if Israel goes in and suffers some significant loses, then what? And yet, maybe the have to, and these are all virtually forced moves on both sides. Of course they are never *entirely* forced.
The question is who is pushing who?
I would wager that Morsi is pushing Hamas (who probably doesn’t need TOO much of a push), in hopes of blackmailing the hapless West (i.e., Barack Obama) into giving him money to keep his illiquid economy afloat, for just one more month, one more year. The psychology of the cannibal. The people of Gaza and the Hamas ‘fighters’ are just fodder for more looting; the Arab on razza.
Jihad. Jihad is nothing more than the religious institutionalization of the Arab on razza. Now they have an Imam to bless it. Allah Akbar!
The Arab builds nothing, does nothing, achieves nothing unless they hire someone from the West or the East to do it for them. All the building achievements of the oil kingdoms were bought and performed by people “other than Arabs”.
Without foreign labor, Saudi Arabia would fall apart in a year. And there will always be someone ready to jump into the breach and take their money, and keep that crap game floating.
The ultimate symbol of the Western Left cognitive dissonance is America’s favorite homosexual cable anchor reporting from Gaza, hanging out with people that would cut his throat were he not acting today as their enabler. Who knows tomorrow? Watch your back, Anderson. No greater symbol of the Left’s eagerness to tear down civilization to replace it with their version of a New World Order. Maybe next week Andrew Sullivan will visit Gaza; we should be so lucky.
Idiots.
2. Subotai Bahadur
- nice enough but not nearly as nice as Obama. Check out the smile on his face as he points out that Israel has a right to defend itself. “O villain, villain, villain, smiling, damned villain!”
I had my doubts when he was asked in the debates if he would consider an attack on Israel as an attack on the US. He said he would stand by Israel – not quite the same thing.
The US has been beaten in Iraq. It has lost in Afganistan and one of its bases was destroyed. Its ambassador has been killed in Libya, its CIA station destroyed and the US is powerless to defend itself. The American people have rewarded Obama with a new term.
The US is unable to aid Israel. Israel is on its own.
This is Obama’s message to the world: “The US simply is unable to meet any treaty commitments anywhere in the world. It is out of money, out of gas and has lost the will to fight. The cold war is over, the world is at peace, we don’t want supremacy at sea, or in the air or on the land. Problems at home – birth control and obamacare are all that is important.”
Why does this evoke an image of Obama in my mind?
Israel will have to punish them, until the media has declared they have lost, as in 2006, and what’s his name can pop his head out and squeal about the Zionist aggressor and the unity of the Palestinian nation. Why doesn’t someone just pop this zit? I don’t get why, unless some thermonuclear state is running the show, why – since some thermonuclear state is supposedly not running the show – they don’t. What is the point of all this? Tell me they don’t know where that f-cker is 24/7.
Grey eagle you need to get a grip and stop reading the NYTimes editorial page.
Seen on Twitter: “Bad signs for Susan Rice.1st she lost WP’s Milbank: http://wapo.st/SSjml1 Now she’s lost the NYT’s Dowd. http://nyti.ms/We6oyM”
What is worse, the Washington Post has lost the New York Times.
This, from a newspaper whose profitability has sunk 85%. They’re jeering each other into the poorhouse. Well soon everyone will be there. Egypt, the Hostess ex-employees, the whole Food Stamp nation. I guess it will all be fair. We’ll all be equally broke and still pretending that we’re a name to conjure with as we open the last can of sardines.
If the best revenge is living well, America needs to accelerate her efforts to achieve energy independence. Her success will offer a beacon of hope to Israel to develop the bountiful deepwater oil/gas reserves off her coast in the Med.
That would hurt the bad actors and their totalian funding sources. If Israel develops exportable surpluses, they become a competitor to Putin. By driving down the value Putin’s sources of hard currency, they undermine his ability to bribe his Russian nomenklatura or threaten his captive nations customer base, thereby helping the White Movement resistance, further underming his power. Was it only a bit less than a year ago when he was anticpating becoming Vlad the Impaler II, before the rise of the White Movement? Now he is a pitiful whimpering coward trying to bribe allies with petrodollars to support him.
Undermining Iran’s sources of hard currency undermines the mullahs and helps the Green Movement Resistance.
Freeing Libya strengthened the democratic forces in Tripoli. The Forces of Evil have temporary control of Benghazi, but with American support, Tripoli could begin to assert hegemony over Eastern Libya. Having Obama arm the Al Qaeda militias was STUPID!!!! That policy needs to be reversed PDQ.
We need to keep the pressure on to complete the Keystone XL pipeline. We need to defeat the Green Energy crony capitalists favored by Obama, Chu, Gore and for that matter, Soros and Putin. As our energy costs decline (and with them our foreign exhcange imbalances), we get stronger and stronger. With lower costs, we can export more of the amber waves of grain to “bribe” those who are hungry and are willing to be good boys and girls, so they don’t have to go to bed hungry.
It’s time to put the grown-ups in charge in Washington D.C.
Wretchard wrotte earlier about Obama having promised the vig to both Tony & Vinnie at the same time. Without the vig. A somewhat rational and honorable man might be looking for that last pack of smokes. The O is looking for the opportunity, the go-to deal to keep up appearances and maintain the necessary tensions amongst the players. Tony & Vinnie HATE each other. O is in a best case scenario, “hey, let’s you & him fight!”. They came in the door that way. Now he has to figure out how to lie to each side well enough to distract them enough, making him look good.
Say the right bland weasel words on camera for the talking heads. With respect to BOTH sides. Be nuance-y. Make super sincere promises of his heartfelt ‘for realsies’ intentions in private.
The Pali’s are psychotic. Even the Arabs know that. Buy them off. For long enough to ‘appear’ all Nobel-ly & Presidential. Convince them he (O) is on their side, the timing is just a tick off. They will never live up to ANY deal but Israel & the West keep making them. What is just one (THE One) more?
Promise the Pali’s more monies to steal. And maybe that cool tunneling Machine they used in Ocean’s Whatever? to again take down Las Vegas. O knows the Hollywood. Maybe even get Brid Pitts to drive it and make sure it runs. Back & forth between Egypt & Gaza. Got it? Shhhhhh! Out secret. Move all the rockets you need…. Just wait a bit to use them.
Israel needs? Parts/missiles for Iron Dome? They arrive on schedule but are only ‘almost perfect’. Except a key component is glitchy. Oy! We will put our best, top men on that. As soon as they finish with the Ark of the Covenant. Or as soon as the guy with the key to the super secret locked Missile Supply storage closet gets back from vacation.
O has top men (and the Wimmens!!) to advise and refine the deal. But it won’t take long because, if it does, he will get bored. Besides, another ‘beef’ is just another opportunity to manage the tension. Keep all involved from talking amongst themselves and actually seeing the con.
Hey Vin, Tony said your Mom’s sauce is from A JAR!. Ton, hey Ton… I don’t want to be the one to say it but thought you might want to know…
Life is easy when you aren’t bound by a moral code, sense of justice or allegiance to the Truth.
Rational isn’t optional. It’s rather not cricket, old boy.
From Richochet:
Burying Our Heads in the Sand of Iran
Anne R. Pierce · 4 hours ago
“As the news out of the Middle East goes from bad to worse, we have no choice but to learn – once again – what a mistake it is to ignore (unlearn) the lessons of history.
Take the case of Iran. Iran is the main source of the 200 missiles a day Hamas has recently been firing at Israel. Both the new Fajr-5 missiles and the new Ayub drone that are being devastatingly used to destabilize the Middle East are the result of Iranian technology. The IAEA reports that Iran is enriching uranium at a pace that would bring it to Israel’s “red line” in just over seven months. The Institute for Science and International Security says Iran’s total output of low-enriched uranium since 2007 could potentially be used for six or seven nuclear weapons if refined much further. Iran still actively supports, with weapons, money and training, terrorists and terror-sponsoring regimes. Human rights violations within Iran are severe.”
Just calculating coldy, this is a postive for the US. Both partied have been making policies based on lies – the saudis, egyptians and pakistanis are our allies. A growing number of peopl are going to realize that we are not dependant on middle eastern oil, the chinese, indians and europeans are. The jacksonian strain in US politics may re-assert itiself and say – no aid to egypt, palestine and pakistan and drill, baby, drill. This war may be a teachable moment on these issues.
” … the dice is now rolling. ”
Is? Should be ”are”; singular of dice is die, no? A pair of dice, right?
Did somebody sneak in another one of them new singulars while I wasn’t looking?
The problem with bribing the Arabs is that they don’t stay bought. Perhaps that explains why it is embedded in Islam that nothing is permanent.
We have now re-focused our military and diplomatic power to the Western Pacific and Asia.
That is where we now place our bets-the dice thrown and the commitments now in place.
Australia is an important part of this major refocus-what about the Philippines?
Oil and gas is no longer the issue as we will be the major exporter in 7 years and energy independent before that.
The main action for American fundamental interests is now in Asia-Western Pacific
What will the Philippines do?
they have have a long history with Spain and America but they face a major challenge from China.
The Mid-East and AfPak are now a matter of history, nostalgia and regret-we made some bad decisions-we will get over it-already have-in fact
-time to move on and avoid sunk cost thinking.
The current and future focus for American Fundamental Interests is now and will be Asia and the Western Pacific
It is what it is -and it will be for a very long time into the future.
Vicky – so close to thanksgiving, and no more comments about out VALIANT ally turkey w/gravy? no comments about NATO? No comments about how turkey protects it’s indigenous christian minority?
Where is our fundamental self-interest?
As a point of interest, the Arabic word for a die (as in dice) is “al azar” and is the origin of the English word “hazard”, especially as in “hazard a guess”.
As a point of curiosity, does it seem to anyone else that Israel may be attempting to make Hamas “burn off” much of its rocket supply (now that the Khartoum connection is in rubble) as part of battlespace preparation in anticipation of a move against Iran. It would be preferable to focus northward in the event of an attack against Iran, and a depleted, exhausted, decapitated Hamas would enable Israel to do just that.
I doubt it’s coincidence Obama is in Thailand right as the Middle East show is happening.
Let me guess- the MILF gets her rockets from North Korea… meaning the CCP.
Don’t think the Chinese will fall for that.
The Economist now calls China a “National Socialist Nation”-
We have Panetta in Australia-today- and a very significant new US Marine base there
We have POTUS and Clinton in Asia
What about the other other nations in the first, second and third Island Rings
What are Fernandez insights into this new reality involving his home and his adopted country-Australia
The Mid East/ Palestine-Israel is now boring, irrelevant and history
A Sunk Cost-in terms of American Fundamental Interests moving forward-we all know that
The hot area now are the Western Pacific-Australia in particular
Fernandez lives there
What is his news and insight?
I guess that with Vicky, once an anti-Semite, always an anti-Semite, what do you say?
27- He is trying to associate my trans-actual heritage with his own loathsome ramblings. That’s very unkind.
15. wretchard
I knew that name sounded familiar. Katherine Weymouth is the niece of Tina Weymouth, former bassist for the Talking Heads.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katharine_Weymouth#Family
Small world.
RE: It’s time to put the grown-ups in charge in Washington D.C.
All due respect, but this is an absurd statement. At this writing, it was time to put the grown-ups in charge…. thirteen days ago. We chose the juveniles. We chose them because they offered us candy and cookies and puppies and unicorns, and free birth control and Obamacare, and mostly, because they weren’t those nasty Republicans who are sooooo much Principal Smathers, and what an uptight doofus HE is!
As noted above, we don’t have time for stoopid stuff like air and naval supremacy and defense of Western values (BO-ringgg!), we have cookies to eat, and concerts to go to.
Time to put the adults in charge? That time passed. We missed the window. The kollej edoocated hyper-teens remain at the helm, and we are at their mercy.
Thanks, stay-at-homes. Thanks a lot. Nice work.
Yes, the Moties. I remember both books well. One difference between the Moties and the Arabs is the Arabs don’t seem to have any Crazy Eddies, anyone who even tries to break the cycle.
And Buck Smith is right about this – we don’t need their oil, the Euros and Chinese do. If we had some competent folks running the show in D.C. we could make some hay with this. Too bad we just voted for four more years of incompetnece.
JMH…
As a status quo power, America still needs Arab oil exports to keep flowing along.
Rather like the ‘Spice’ of “Dune” fame, it must flow.
At a simplistic level, it does appear that Persian Gulf exports sail to the east, mostly. But, as an importer of all things manufactured in Red China, America is, then, a secondary consumer of that liquid energy — as is Europe.
Beyond that, oil, liquid energy, transportation fuel, is the ultimate fungible commodity. It trades on the high seas while still steaming thither and yon. So, every nation is hooked economically into that energy stream — differing only in degree.
========
The biggest energy news in the last year has been the decisions by Germany and Japan to shut down their nuclear plants. So much for worries about carbon dioxide.
The impact on Japan’s balance of trade — and the resulting tightness in the oil market — still goes mostly unremarked. The effect is colossal. It may well implode the Japanese Yen.
It may be enough to entirely counter the fracking revolution — tight oil production-wise.
Such joint stupidities may be a ‘tell’ that both societies haven’t shaken off a social-DNA disease for stepping in the wrong direction — to the utmost.
==========
I fear our fearless leader, the Wan, will also duck-step after their leads.
#19
…the saudis, egyptians and pakistanis are our allies….
You forgot the Turks. How could you forget the Turks??
#30
We chose the juveniles.
Realizing full well that one “shouldn’t go there”, wouldn’t it be “funny” (after all the soul-searching, breast-beating and Mitt-bashing, despairing and inveighing, infighting and denouncing, sighing and cursing) to find out that Mitt had actually won?….
(But one shouldn’t go there…. No indeed….)
“Funny”? Well, as they say, your mileage may vary….
Barry, it’s an interesting premise, but I have note that very few people are really agitated over a “stolen” election, even if it is more than a remote possibility, I believe for the following reason:
I think we would be far better off with Mitt Romney as President…. BUT….. if he was, it would be by 50.01% to Obama’s 49.09 percent, or even maybe reversed, but Mitt winning electoral, or whatever….. and I think so many of us realize that if the rot is THAT deep and THAT profound… we are beyond saving just by a better President. Whether we are beyond saving at all is a different question, and the fact that so many of us ask it without a ready answer is so horribly telling – but so many of us now think that if national salvation does come, it will be only through a mighty national or international (or both) upheaval, the likes of which very few of us can really predict.
No, I am prepared to acknowledge, and state, we (the country) voted for this. We did. WE voted for this. Now we get to live… now we get to die….. with what we have done. We cannot go back, only forward into…… ??????
….Interesting times.
This is my note to Barry Rubin’s blog:–
To me there is one, and only one, Israeli action which can end this nonsense; to wit: to invade north of the Rafah crossing, and secure a three miles strip from Rafah north, This way there would be no tunnels, no Egyptian smuggling, and, after a time, no more missiles shot into Israel. To do anything else is simply short term expedience.
No matter the weakness of an enemy: if you allow that enemy to attack you with impunity, soon or later it will inflict grievous harm on you. This is certain.
parchellan
P. S. As far as Israel pleasing Obama, that is both bootless and a fool’s errand: Obama detests Jews — and hates Israel. To base any long term strategy on the belief that Obama is benevolent towards Israel is a form of suicide over the long term.
To continue the analogy between Muslims and Moties (and it is a good one in some ways; Muslims breed like bacteria, too, which will eventually cause problems in some Western countries) there were three alternatives given in the Mote books. One was do nothing and wait until the enemy rolled over us. Another was the one that neither the enemy nor any of those on our side with any moral sense wanted; total extermination. And the third was blockade.
The third option – cut off all ties of any sort and let them rot – is currently impossible because of Someone’s nasty little joke, of putting vital resources directly underneath the heart of the enemy. Maybe part of the solution is to get serious about doing something about that?
I said “Muslims” rather than “Arabs” simply because Muslims have borrowed Arab “culture” in the institutionalised form of Islam. Or maybe adopted it because it fit in well with their existing culture as in SW Asia. Banditry and warlordism might have worked in the 7th century; it’s just too goddamned dangerous now.
Westphalia was of its time. “International Law” as derived from it is not settled, the Great War showed that, China rises to show that gentlemanly politeness between nations (Westphalia) is not peace between nations. Nations and borders existed before Westphalia: Egypt, Lebanon, Turkey, Iraq, Iran — in the last two the names have changed. Yet one nation surmounted borders — Israel, but Israel also has real borders. They are not Westphalian.
In the end there is only one Book of Peace and it includes a Map of its own. Westphalia was a step forward towards a peaceful world, but its ideals are not a complete cover set of the range of human and national forces.
FWIW:
Why Israel Really Matters (or should) to the West and the World:
It has nothing to do with ancient history, or biblical imperatives, or anything of th sort. Israel matters because it is a bastion of western civilization, and has made contributions to many different areas of civilizational advancement — everything from science and technology and agriculture and medicine, to scholary pursuits in the humanities and in the arts. The death of Israel will mean a hole bigger than that little nation itself will be left in the heart of the West and the West’s ability to keep its civilization going. Israel punches well above its weight because that’s what Jews do. It is surrounded by the depraved, the barbaric, and the parasitic. “Palestinians” and Gazans in particular are a people damned by their pathologies, and their allies — as an aggregate, are a waste of food and air. These realities alone should cause any sane person who believes in civilization to support the continued existence of Israel.
My experience of Arabs living outside of their geographic origins is that they are a fine people, but they must first escape their original environment.
Another option is to colonize. Israel could seize gaza and the WB, and completely take over. Shut down all the hate schools, all the mosques, and most importantly impose a total ban on new births. Bring the birth rate to zero and in twenty years or so the problem is over. The muslims are producing children for the sole purpose of strapping explosives onto their bodies. For this they should lose the right to have children. We have only one way to view the world, and that’s from a human rights perspective. We’ve lost our way temporarily because of the infiltrating left and their so called multiculturalism, but this will pass or we all die. Israel needs to lead not play defense. What has defense gotten them but more missiles. The muslims are so off track because of islam itself, that they will never correct themselves. This is the only solution that does not involve massive killing. Take over, impose a moral code and police the population free of violence. Administer everything, from schools to mosque to grocery store. The only way there will ever be a pali awakening is if Israel makes it happen. In the long run it will probably be cheaper anyway. This would shock the world, and that’s just what it needs. Rule of law, proper, not sharia; rights respecting government; complete delegation of the use of force to the police—these are thing missing in the middle east. These things require force. They don’t spring up on their own. It’s force, and force of will.
It seems to me that Israel’s best play may be to do what they are accused of. They ‘do the time’ in international public opinion, they might as well do (at least a little) of the crime. Not wanting Israel to lose its soul, but to create conditions where it is ‘worthwhile’ for the people of Gaza to either stop or get rid of Hamas. I know that is a long putt. What if Israel did something along the lines of announcing that:
Gaza has fired over 12,000 missiles at Israel over the last dozen years, aimed generally to kill civilians. Israel will, starting in 2 hours, respond to each further missile or shell fired from Gaza into Israel proper with 10 rounds, until Israel catches up to the 12,000 round total. Of each 10 rounds fired, 3 attempt to target the firing site, 7 will be targeting maximum damage in Gaza city. No missiles from Gaza, no Israeli shelling Gaza City. If the missiles continue to fly, Gaza City will be shelled. The people of Gaza have the ability to prevent or cause this shelling by controlling their shelling of Israel. We hope they chose peace rather than death.
It would be a propaganda boon to the anti-Israel activists and western media. But if the first rocket caused two air burst over the market, a shell into the terminal at the air port, a shell into the airport fuel tanks, a shell into the power plant, a shell into the power plant fuel tanks, and a shell into Hamas HQ. That is the first rocket they fire. Alternatively, those targets could be hit one by one. Each rocket, something important destroyed, many killed.
The international community would be outraged, and Israel would likely dimplomatically cower, but if Israel responded, “Our shelling stops the moment theirs does. They control the exchange of fire over that border, not us. Don’t tell us to stop…tell them to stop.”
Extremely unlikely, but just, and may be the only way out of Israel’s Gaza conundrum.
2. Subotai Bahadur
Great minds think alike!
re 40. Daedalus Mugged
“a shell into the terminal at the air port, a shell into the airport fuel tanks, a shell into the power plant, a shell into the power plant fuel tanks, and a shell into Hamas HQ. That is the first rocket they fire. Alternatively, those targets could be hit one by one. Each rocket, something important destroyed…”
None of the targets you mention exist.
No major power plants to speak of, Israel “sells” them power (usually they don’t pay their bill). They cannot keep their own power plants running. The airport has not been functional in years. All the talking heads who are in Gaza flew into Israel or maybe Egypt to get there.
There is no Hamas HQ, they work out of the basements of civilians apartment buildings and hospitals.
The only worthwhile targets in Gaza are the missiles, the people who launch then, and the people who smuggle them in. Another valuable target would be the jerks sending missiles to Hamas, but they are in Egypt and Iran.
While Israel has enough artillery to flatten the place, we don’t shell civilians because we are not Hamas.