The Last Turn of the Vise
It’s all too one sided for the Left. Glenn Greenwald who now is based in the UK Guardian, writes “stop pretending the US is an uninvolved, helpless party in the Israeli assault on Gaza.” Translation: Obama, stop Israel.
Jeffrey Golberg writes in the Atlantic “Barack Obama hasn’t turned against Israel. This is a big surprise to everyone who has not paid attention for the last four years, or who had decided, for nakedly partisan reasons, to paint him as a Jew-hater.” Maybe that’s because Israel is winning the missile war.
But there’s a hook in the bait. Goldberg goes on to add that Israelis “lack strategic thinking” — unlike a certain president he knows — and that anyway “a ground invasion of Gaza is a bad idea.”
The air campaign against Hamas rocket sites is understandable and defensible. A ground invasion will lead to misery and woe; to a total rupture with Egypt; to a further loss of legitimacy, and thus, deterrent capability — and, at the end of the day, does anyone actually believe that Israel would be able to fully neutralize the Hamas/Islamic Jihad threat? These groups might need time to rebuild, but they would be rebuilt. And then what? Another ground invasion? Now is the time to try the Egypt card.
As the previous post noted, the Gaza campaign is putting Obama in an impossible dilemma. “The potential collision between Egypt and Israel over Gaza now threatens to catch him between two fires. A collision between the two American ‘allies’ will force him to reap the bitter fruit of trying to be all things to all men; of trying to support the Brotherhood, with its hostility to Israel — and Israel. He will have to square the circle or openly choose sides in a way that not even the New York Times can conceal.”
For Obama it is too late to stop the rocket war. His only chance to avoid the fatal rupture is to head off the ground campaign. Goldberg lays out what must be done for Israel to prove it has got “strategic vision”: negotiate.
Give Palestinians hope that Israel is serious about the two-state solution. And how do you do that? By reversing the settlement project on the West Bank. It is not unreasonable for Palestinians to doubt the sincerity of Netanyahu on the subject of the two-state solution, when settlements grow ever-thicker. There’s no way around this: The idea of a two-state solution will die if Israel continues to treat the West Bank as a suburb of Jerusalem and Kfar Sava, and not as the future location of the state of Palestine.
That would be nice, if it could happen. But the problem is that Hamas believed it could take on Israel by main force, a fact which Goldberg himself asserts without realizing how it undermines his principal argument. He quotes the Washington Institute:
Here is David Makovsky of the Washington Institute for Near East Policy on where Hamas went wrong in this latest round of violence:
Hamas seems to have miscalculated on several fronts. First, it may have believed that Israel would avoid major action for fear of antagonizing the new government in Cairo, given Gaza’s proximity to Egypt and Hamas’s close ties with the Muslim Brotherhood. It may also have believed that recent shows of regional solidarity (including the Qatari emir’s visit to Gaza last month and ongoing support from Turkey) would raise the diplomatic cost of Israeli action to prohibitive levels.
In other words, Hamas was relying on the diplomatic effect of the Arab Spring as cover to attack Israel and got their sums wrong. “Hamas may not have expected an attack against a high-profile target like Jabari, which was a change from Israel’s pattern of sporadic retaliation to rocket fire.”
It was the death of Jabari which constituted the escalation point for Hamas. It shocked Hamas that the Israelis should take the rocket attacks so seriously. As in the case of the 2006 Lebanese War, which was precipitated by a Hezbollah kidnapping operation against an Israeli border post, Hamas miscalculated both the effects of its missile fire and the deterrent effect of the Arab Spring. It got them into waters from which they are now trying to figure out how to extricate themselves.
In a week full of miscalculations Obama may have overestimated the power of his waning influence as well. The Turkish Prime Minister and the Egyptian President “said Saturday that Egypt and Turkey are capable of jointly bringing stability to the Middle East. He made his comments during a speech at Cairo University after holding talks with President Mohamed Morsi on the situation in Gaza where at least 39 Palestinians have been killed in an ongoing Israeli onslaught on the coastal strip.”
Erdogan ominously added that Turkey and Egypt could go it alone — without outside brokers — i.e. Obama.
Erdogan praised Morsi’s decision to recall Egypt’s ambassador to Israel, adding that Turkey will continue to cooperate with Egypt on Gaza. The Turkish premier affirmed that his country will work with Egypt and the international community to support the Palestinian people.
He added that Turkey and post-revolution Egypt can guide the region without the need for outside “brokers.”
As the previous post noted, if Obama thinks he has troubles now they will be nothing compared to what may happen if the IDF goes into Gaza on the ground. Then he can no longer have it both ways. He will either have to bring Israel under control or quell the objections of Egypt, Turkey and the Arab world. Turkey is in a position to increase its traditional influence over the area at the expense of Obama. And Obama has the opportunity to continue whatever it is that he’s been doing.
The Three Conjectures at Amazon Kindle for $1.99
Storming the Castle at Amazon Kindle for $3.99
No Way In at Amazon Kindle $8.95, print $9.99
Tip Jar or Subscribe or Unsubscribe
stop pretending the US is an uninvolved, helpless party in the Israeli assault on Gaza
Greenwald is an idiot. This attitude by the US is accurate, proper, and favorable to Israel.
Barack Obama hasn’t turned against Israel
Goldberg is an idiot. If Obama hasn’t turned against Israel, it’s because he has hated them as Jews, Westerners, and imperialists since before the beginning. Alternatively if this is his support, then who needs it.
No, Hamas has deliberately provoked Israel with a very blunt instrument. If Israel’s offensive is supposedly incapable of permanently suppressing the enemy leadership, what was Hamas’s barrage of pencil-rockets supposed to accomplish? The question is why. Probably gin up the usual weird defense of the territories occupied by former Egyptians and Jordanians on the eve of a unilateral declaration of statehood, distraction from Syria, pretext for MB in Egypt to join with its little Hamas project, probably with a nice Iran-Syria-Russia-China quadrangulation. If only we could team up with Israel and kill of Assad, Hezbollah, Hamas, and the PLO once and for all. Presumably the primary beneficiaries would actually be “the Palestinians.”
And “if the IDF goes into Gaza on the ground.” and if Obama CANNOT “bring Israel under control OR quell the objections of Egypt, Turkey and the Arab world.”…
What then?
“[Jeffrey] Goldberg lays out what must be done for Israel to prove it has got “strategic vision”: negotiate.”
Memo for Jeffrey Goldberg: there was a lot of “negotiating” in this place too. Didn’t work out so well.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theresienstadt_concentration_camp
What then?
What then is Obama faces the swindler’s dilemma. He’s promised the vig to Tony and Vinnie, having money for only one of them, and both are due in about 15 minutes. So he’s making calls to both on his cell phone, trying to reschedule the payment, trying to get one of them to come back another day. Both both are already en route.
So right about now he’s looking for another smoke so maybe he can think clearly. And dang! Where did he put that last pack?
How would Obama “bring Israel under control”? Does he really have that kind of leverage?
Ultimately not even the United States has the power to control “everybody”. What the hegemon is supposed to do is keep the international order, to provide the King’s Justice or else face the prospect of letting every man fend for itself. The hegemon governs by the acceptance that he is the hegemon. Through legitimacy, one founded ultimately, on credible strength.
Whatever the phrase “Leading From Behind” means it certainly implies that “we are no longer in the hegemon business”. The abdicating hegemon cannot now advise its former subjects to just “go along with the robbers” and “don’t resist” once it pulls the police off the streets. Human nature being what it is, the former subjects will resist, with all that entails.
Israel and the Arabs, unable to get a settlement in the hegemon’s court, as it were, are taking it outside. The judge is banging the gavel, but nobody is listening any more.
How is Obama going to control Israel when he can’t control Gaza? When he can’t control Egypt? When he can’t control Libya? When he can’t even defend the friggin’ US consulate?
About all he can control is public opinion in America, via the New York Times because there are still people gullible enough to believe it. The Arab World has canceled its subscription. They don’t listen to Chris Matthews. They don’t listen to Rachel Maddow. And one suspects, they don’t even listen to Him. The only people who listen to Obama any more are Romney, Boehner and the insiders in the Beltway.
So Obama, having frittered away his legitimacy, could spend lavishly to regain it. He has to remind people he’s the Big Man. Undo the do. But maybe it’s a little late for that. What he should have realized that if you diminish America, you diminish yourself. He has pursued a largely secret policy in the Middle East as if he didn’t need anything but stardust and falsehood to change the world.
Heretofore his method for managing everything has been by manipulating perception. The external universe could be molded via speeches, Facebook, Twitter and spin. He didn’t govern for beans; ran a disastrous economy and foreign policy and yet could convince Sandra Fluke to vote for him. Why oh why didn’t it work with Ahmed and Shlomo? With Hu and Kim? He forgot that reality doesn’t do illusion. And now he will be reminded.
Now that Turkey is about to stand up to those despicable Israelis, where is Victor? Did he oversleep?
Wretchard, thank you for sharing your thoughts. Unfortunately they are not that different from my own. Unless Israel fears international approbation we are going to witness some carnage. The wimpy North American Jewish pundits are calling for Israel to play the Egyptian/West Bank card. And that may yet happen. But neither strategy will provide a lasting solution.
Knowing Israel, they have watched and calibrated this administration from its onset; while current resupplying might be threatened, they would have foreseen this and stocked up. Never again has meaning. They may want to play the good guy, but you play nicely up until you can no longer afford the cost. The Arab Spring pushed the cost to 1967 and 1973 levels even without Iran. With Iran, Wretchard’s Three Conjectures come front and center. Shabbat Shalom.
Editor’s alert – unable to view first video – cites “private video.”
o/t – Tigerhawk retired his blog today.
Lots of speculation (naturally).
Nobody knows how this is going to play out.
Or when it’s going to end.
Or how.
Quoting Greenwald is for laughs, right?
Quoting Goldberg is an exercise in futility (and his jocular shtick is especially lame)—unless one subscribes to the anti-Bibi, “Israel-must-give-the-Palestinians-something-the-Palestinians-can-actually-accept” (“sensible,” “reasonable”) crap that animates so much of the educated and sophisticated chattering classes.
And he’s offering strategic advice?
Morsi and Erdogan? Now there’s a pair of snakes. (Basically, Psychopathologies ‘R Us). Question is, can Israel afford to ignore them?
Actually, the question is what does Israel have to do to stop the rockets and missiles? And the answer is, destroy a lot of Gaza. But that’s exactly what Hamas wants (that and killing and terrorizing as many Jews as possible, forcing Egypt to “amend” the peace treaty with Israel, demonstrating to the Palestinians that Abbas is a punk, which is actually something most of them already know—funny, though, how the West doesn’t—all the while offering distractions from the big threat, i.e., Iran.)
Obama. Hmmm. What’s he going to do?
Well, at the moment, his plate is kind of full. Petraeus. The economy. His integrity (heh). So, he’s been making the right kind of noises so far, but he can change direction pretty quickly (flexible dude). When/if he does start making different kinds noises, Bibi may just decide not to hear them. Obama might then ramp things up a bit by setting his attack dogs in the media loose (e.g., chin-stroking, eyebrow-knitting but mad-as-a-hatter Tom Friedman).
Nonetheless, Israel will have to stay the course as long as it can knowing that time is not on its side (e.g., Olmert, who had to end his operation four years ago on the eve of Obama’s first inauguration).
The biggest danger, though, that Obama can present—and the easiest (and most natural) plan of “action”—would be to just freeze Bibi out: “OK, you want to fight? Fine. You don’t want to list to me? Fine, just don’t come begging to me for help. I tried to “help you out” in my first term and you made a fool of me. Repaid me with squat. So don’t come begging to me know ‘cuz I won’t be hearing you. (By the way, how’s the wife and kids?)”
Maybe.
If Israel’s supply line is badly compromised, a gambit like that would appeal to a whole lot of people in Obamaworld (and points beyond). Maybe not to most of the Jews, not even a good part of the liberal ones. But Obama doesn’t really need them any more, does he?
Besides, Bibi would have brought it all on himself (as the narrative has been telling us for so long….).
But all this is speculation. Who knows? Maybe Obama will rediscover his moral core? (heh.)
In the meantime, Israel has got to find a way to stop those missiles. (And you know what? It’s not really possible to do that without killing a whole lot of Gazans. Undesirable from an Israeli/Jewish POV; moreover, that would be win-win for Hamas, too.)
All this while Hezbullah is watching with acute interest. Except that Hezbullah already made its “mistake” once—and at the moment, Hezbullah is THE government of Lebanon, which may make them a bit more, um, circumspect. Maybe, but who knows with those clowns….
While the possibility of the neighbors piling on in this conflict increases—if they can feel they can do it without getting whomped—and while Iran just keeps on rolling, rolling…
The video is now public. There are a host of rumors swirling around now. An Israeli envoy has been sent to Cairo. Denied by Israel. Tanks near Gaza which now appear to be SP artillery on fire missions. Al Qassam about to start a big international press conference.
The whole atmosphere is one of expectation, as if we were on the brink of some doom that could go either way.
Anybody want to bet on the odds that American supplied weapons will mysteriously turn up in the hands of the Palestinians? Totally unforeseeable and tragic of course, how could we have known that those weapons we gave to the Muslim brotherhood would be used against Israel?
The fast and furious mentality of arming America’s and our allies’ enemies runs deep in this administration. Obama would probably love to fully support the noble anti-colonialist, anti-imperialist freedom fighters in the name of human rights. He is a leftist after all. It remains to be seen if he will be bold enough to do so.
The one thing that comforts me about the whole situation is that Israel has 100+ nuclear warheads by most estimates, including multi-megaton thermonuclear ones. There is a limit to how far Obama, or Turkey, or Egypt, or Iran, or anybody else can push them around. If Iran got nukes and used them on Israel, Israel would take down the entire Muslim world with it. It’s called the “Samson option”, look it up.
Turkey’s involvement could be troublesome. Turkey is a NATO ally, Isreal is not.
Wretchard, excellent comment. When people with a worldview based on watching MSNBC find out that the rest of the world neither watches MSNBC nor kowtows to people who do, they are in for a rude awakening.
And Obama is finding out what the rest of the world – where reality isn’t dictated by the MSM – thinks of his “leadership.”
Ultimately, even with massive power and resources, you can’t be the world hegemon without seeing and understanding the world as it truly IS. And America’s educators and media have been very inefficient at educating and informing Americans for at least a couple of decades.
We let three or four decades of post-WWII relative peace and prosperity lull us into thinking that just having the U.N. had somehow fixed international problems, that all cultures shared the same values and thus were equal, and that diplomatic, economic, intelligence, military and oversight positions in America’s government could be rationed out with political favoritism and correctness trumping expertise.
I wonder just the hell our l’infant terrible president said in that toast to Rashid Khalidi? No doubt it would buck up the Israelis right about now.
Just a random thought, with no bearing on anything whatsoever:
What ties to or feelings for Israel were held by the flag-rank officers caught in the October Surprise?
The “Egypt card” was a King with Sadat’s face on it. It was replaced with Obama’s help by an unplayable Knave called Morsi. The Joker in the deck is Erdogan.
Remember when Bill Clinton noted that Obama should be getting the players coffee? Erdogan and Morsi, which means all the real players from Putin to the Pope, have decided that the idiot is no longer useful. He has been dismissed.
The International Community were furious at the Sinhalese government of Sri Lanka when they invaded the Jaffna peninsula and crushed the LTTE. Many comfortable jobs were lost when peace came.
I picture Victor when TSHTF looking acutely uncomfortable in an army blouse two sizes to small and a helmet two sizes to large.
As a Scott/Irish non fan of money counting, never served Jews, well American Jews anyway, if Israel did a Stalin hubcap to hubcap artillery gun shelling of Gaza for 72 hours, artillery shells casings twenty feet high behind each gun…..I’d say nice start.
Tell the Egyptians to eat dirt…er…sand. Anyone else, I’d say I know your family’s house on sat-nav/.
In half a year, all those Arabs will be out of fuel, food, spare parts and at each others throats. Life is tough, tougher if you are a Arab.
Give all residents of the Gaza strip 72 hours warning to evacuate before it becomes one giant kill box & free fire zone, then just go in and take it all using WWII rules of engagement. If a sniper fires at your troops, level the block where the shot originated using heavy artillery. It could take up to a week or three to take it all, except that when the pus…, I mean terrorists see that the IDF is serious this time I think they’ll one and all bug out to Egypt. Israel should provide evacuation busses for all “non-combatant” residents of Gaza, and provide tents, food, medicine, sanitation, etc. in the West bank for them as a short term solution. The “non-combatants” could be screened and wanted terrorists detained.
When the operation is done, build a real permanent wall & moat filled with sea water between Rafah and Egypt and open Gaza to settlement by Israelis.
Allow the evacuated former residents of Gaza to settle in the West bank, or move to Egypt, Lebanon, Jordan, or even Turkey or Saudi Arabia if that’s where they want to go. I’m afraid Syria is just not a viable relocation alternative at the moment… When the world bleats against this barbarism (real war), perhaps some of the bleeding hearts in the E.U. might wish to allow some or all of the former Gaza residents to claim refugee status in their particular country, but most of Europe is better at bluster and whining than action. The Saudis can re-direct some funds from building and staffing Wahhabi mosques across the world into funding housing, wells, sewage treatment, schools, clinics, shops, industry, farms and otherwise setting up Gaza’s former displaced residents.
In case we’ve forgotten in the West, this is how you WIN a war. The politically correct pansies today call it ethnic cleansing, although that’s somewhat of a misuse of the term since both so called “Palestinians” and most Israeli citizens come from very similar ethnic backgrounds. They’re both Semites after all. My suggestion is much more ethical than the old tried and true way to win a war throughout history, which was ethnic cleansing AND genocide!
This is my humble, K.I.S.S. suggestions for solving this problem, permanently.
Dump most of the politically correct hogwash and do it the way it has been successfully done since the beginning of civilization with some touches of empathy and humanity thrown in as concession to 21st century ridiculous sensibilities.
Sincerely, Armageddon Rex
This Goldberg person must know that Israel proved it was serious about the two state solution in 1948 when it accepted what was offered (a sliver of land along the Mediterranean) and made the best of it. In 1948 the Arabs turned down the two state solution by refusing to accept what was offered and holding out for a one state solution; a single Arab state that included the destruction of the Jewish state and confiscation of its land.
The Arabs have never accepted the two state solution. Israel accepted it from the get go in 1948.
The likes of Glenn Greenwald don’t seem to understand that the Israelis are not as collectively stupid as is the American Republican Party when it comes down to the classic “Charlie Brown attempting to kick the football held by Lucy” pattern. How many times do you need to be shown that negotiations (Israel) or choosing the candidate that the Democrats want their contender to run against because otherwise he will be too extreme (Republicans) just gets you screwed?
You have better chances of winning the big jackpot on the lottery than you do counting on the good faith of a Lucy to hold the football in place.
Of course, a lot of the folks counseling the Charlie Browns know this and just want Charlie to fail and are laughing at him while they talk their rabid, poisonous jive, advising him to trust Lucy this time because it will be different this time.
And then there are the ones who advise him to try again because they too are stupid enough to believe Lucy’s lies. They are the most pathetic of all.
Is this the SAME Turkey that’s been the conduit for Com bloc weapons to the Salafists/ islamists in Syria so notable during Benghazigate?
Is this the same Turkey that keeps trying to bust the arms embargo of Gaza — by sea?
Is this the same Turkey that utterly represses its own muslim minority — the Kurds?
Is this the same Turkey that is on tender economic ground — with its currency falling almost as much as that of Iran?
Is this the same Turkey that is in bed with the mullahs one moment – and with NATO the next?
Erdogan’s positions spin faster than a whirling Dervish.
He is ahead of the Wan: he’s already purged his military — reducing it to quivering ineptness.
==========
Corrupt Democrat Machines can endure in Chicago, Baltimore, Honolulu and the like — because they are protected, in the ultimate, by the Federal Government.
However, once such corruption goes national, that shield is gone: they own it.
Incompetent, vainglorious villains don’t suddenly gain competence just because they’ve ascended the tallest soap box. One need only recall the horrific histories of previous deviant-despots – tales written in blood.
The current crowd is sure to provide rhyming crimin’ — it’s what scorpions do to frogs.
When we had a strong president who ran a strong military he had actual influence in determining international direction. When he backed the Muslim Brotherhood both abroad AND IN THE US the Israelis figured out that they were on their own.To quote General Allen about Afghanistan:”we are wiling to fight. We are not willing to be murdered.”
Obama has placed the Israelis in a desperate situation. The Muslims have made it clear they will never accept Israel under any circumstances. Negotiations have been mere pauses in their campaign for the one state solution. Only those with their heads in the sand or up their butts failed to heed the words and deeds of the ummah.
Before Obama the Israelis were not entirely desperate, believing that they had American support. I don’t think they believe that any longer. The Samson option is not a figure of speech.
20. Armageddon Rex
Kudos! What have they got to lose?
What characterized the Benghazi affair was a curious attempt to impose a worldview on a reality.
So what is the Obama worldview here? I suspect they are clueless and Obama will come out with something akin to what Rodney King said.
The turmoil from North Africa to Syria, Jordan and the vise on Iran has created a chaotic situation. There is one constant, one thing that unites the region into lockstep; hatred of Israel. It is natural for someone, in an attempt to gain some ascendancy in the intramural battles to try to start something that will unite everyone behind him. Attack Israel. If Israel attacks back, so much the better.
The only response that will make any difference is overwhelmingly disproportionality.
5. wretchard
Apparently somewhere in the near East. At least that’s where he’s “searching”.
Sorry for the repeat, unable to edit.
When we had a strong president, Reagan, who ran a strong military he had actual influence in determining international direction. When Obama backed the Muslim Brotherhood both abroad AND IN THE US the Israelis figured out that they were on their own.To paraphrase General Allen about Afghanistan:”we are wiling to fight. We are not willing to be murdered.”
Obama has placed the Israelis in a desperate situation. The Muslims have made it clear they will never accept Israel under any circumstances. Negotiations have been mere pauses in their campaign for the one state solution. Only those with their heads in the sand or up their butts failed to heed the words and deeds of the ummah.
Before Obama the Israelis were not entirely desperate, believing they had American support. I don’t think they believe that any longer. “Exercising restraint” only brought more and more serious attacks. Benghazi is illustrative of the same lesson. The Samson option is not a figure of speech.
General William Tecumseh Sherman. His march through Atlanta probably doesn’t have many supporters today, but, boy!, he got the job done. It is very tempting to implement a similar strategy today in Gaza.
Watching the TV, showing the rockets flying out of Gaza, raining down on Israel, at random, and the Missile Defence System built by the Israelis knocking them down.
It would be nice if some reporter would look up the ‘Experts’ who mocked Ronald Reagan to scorn because he was such a dottering old fool to believe that you could build an effective missile defence system.
As I recall, at the time, all of the MSM laughed their heads off at him. Everyone thought he was a fool,including our current dear leader, except the Russians and apparently the Israelis.
#26 derek
… curious attempt to impose a worldview on a reality
I love that phrase, but the reality of it is very common in this day and time. It is the root of all political rot and evil. It is a disease that infects leaders that, like rabies, eventually leads to the death of the nations who are unfortunate enough to use them for their brains.
Obama is the perfect choice for Erdogan, Morsi, et al. They know from Benghazi that he is paralyzed by his puppet master Ms. Jarret. He will prevaricate at 3 o’clock in the morning and vote present. He is not Harry Truman.
Once we reelected Obama, we gave the green light to all of the malevolent actors on the planet. We the people, well some odd 50 million, pulled the trigger on ourselves.
Now we ride the winds of war/change. Be prepared.
wa @ 30: It would be nice if some reporter would look up the ‘Experts’ who mocked Ronald Reagan to scorn because he was such a dottering old fool to believe that you could build an effective missile defence system.
Well, it is 30 years later, and I think both sides have been proven partly correct. We have a lot more technology today, and Iron Dome is aiming at easy targets. But it’s still a very, very impressive system. An excellent engineering team was allowed to do their job. Meanwhile the US has developed and upgraded the Patriot system so it can knock down larger missiles at longer range. Also very good. That is still very short of anything that could stop a full Soviet attack, that remains a dream. But heck, even if it was little more than a bluff when Reagan did it, it was well done.
I was just Googling to see what details are available on the Iron Dome, and wondering at possible refinements, both longer range and shorter range.
Still, “The best diplomat I know is a fully-activated phaser bank.” – Montgomery Scott.
Barring that, a wing of B-52′s full of obsolete iron bombs would be just about what the Israelis need for Gaza right about now.
“Goldberg lays out what must be done for Israel to prove it has got “strategic vision”: negotiate.
Give Palestinians hope that Israel is serious about the two-state solution.”
Goldberg is an ignorant puke like far too many.
Hamas spokesman: “Israel has opened the gates of hell.”
Let’s hope that they push Hamas straight through those gates into the hell where they belong.
Islam is a death cult; assume a worse case scenario. Gaza is mined. When the IDF is fully engaged the mines are detonated. The ultimate suicide bomb! Hizbulla than launches everything it has stockpiled into Israel. Syria does the same but with chemical and biological warheads; as does Iran. A saturation attack that will overwhelm any defenses. Israel may launch a nuclear counter attack; but Israel is depopulated and finished as a state. The death cult has won; but dies in the process. Allah will be pleased!
Neither the teleprompter reader nor its writer are in a bind.
Everything is going as foreseen and desired. What are considered bugs in the mind of patriots are features of the plan.
Israel has long been a nettle to the oneworlders. Time to get rid of it once and for all.
Samson analogy is acceptable.
http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2012/11/when-the-nerds-go-marching-in/265325/
Yes, it’s OT.
It does explain ORCA and the massive use of software to re-select Soetoro.
‘Tis but a cover story — hide in plain sight — the re-selection of the Wan.
If this is what was on offer legitimately, then what else would the Chicago crew do?
Anything, is the answer.
Just ask DP.
He will have to square the circle or openly choose sides in a way that not even the New York Times can conceal.”
That’s the best-turned, most illuminating phrase of 2012, and deserves a Pulitzer of its own.
37 Winslow is on the right track. Seems 0 would be perfectly content to see Israel attack Gaza and then perhaps even Iran. Israel would prevail perhaps in the short run, with heavy casualties, but would be totally isolated in the long run. Or perhaps Israel would be forced to use nukes — and then have the bigs forcibly disarm them. The world loves to build museums to dead Jews.
Alternatively, perhaps 0 really doesn’t have a plan, let alone a master plan. Maybe he is like the joke about the monkey trying to put the cork back in the pig.
Iran is making a mistake. It is trying to distract Israel and incidentally testing its missile defence system. Were I an Israeli the lesson I would take is to be more concerned about a nuclear tipped missile from Iran, not less.
My econ profesor used to say that GM’s biggest worry in the 60′s was avoiding becoming a monopoly; it would have been easy for them to do. Israel has the military strength and technical expertise to soundly defeat anyone but a superpower. Their western values make it difficult to do so. Given sufficient cause ( a nuke on Tel Aviv, poison gas on Ashdod) they will take the gloves off. I hope that never happens.
UNer current conditions, any truce or cease fire won’t last twelve hours. Hamas may agree but all it takes to break a truce is one Jihadist with a rocket who doesn’t. It’s hard to see an endgame here.
b @ 38: http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2012/11/when-the-nerds-go-marching-in/265325/
Well, it’s about Obama’s nerds and just throws a little snide at Romney’s ORCA crew, I’d dearly like to know more about just how ORCA got that whale fail. Of course I already know since it’s always the same, but would like to see it confirmed. Still, this article is worth a gander, thanks.
–
Y’know, I don’t think Obambus has a master plan, he’s not the planning type, none of his ilk, his flunkies, or his flying monkeys really are, their style is existentialism, chasing dreams, falling off cliffs. How does this win? Cuz the conservative style is to do nothing. Doing something, however poorly, tends to trip over a win, now and again. But that’s old hat.
What I wanted to say is that in his press conference the other day I thought I heard, here and there, a few new notes in Obambus, just as I thought I heard some new notes in his speeches in the last two or three weeks of the campaign. I will betcha he’s got a new friend, he’s hearing a new voice, he’s had some kind of minor revelation, and in a generally good direction. Does it stand a chance in the ecosystem of his beliefs? Probably not. Still, you never know. Him getting rid of Hillary is a tremendous opportunity – but not if it results in either Susan Rice or John F. Ketchup instead. I wonder. I wonder if somehow Valerie Jarrett is being slid out in the second term, that might be a miracle. Odds are certainly against any such positivity, but hey, offer me 100:1 and here’s my dollar.
Maybe batman. I know a lot of nice liberals and most of them think Israel would be just fine if only it would stop being so mean. They would be dumbfounded by a mass casualty war against Israel, much as they were dumbfounded by the 911 attacks.
The Wan’s black hats merely had to use a Denial Of Service attack — to utterly shut down ORCA — if it didn’t fall down on its own.
As for their pre-test: they were assuming that their system was going to be ‘black hatted’ on 11-06-2012.
There’s no other way to explain their hyper-concern. For, if you look at the specifics of their ‘war game’ it was to get past any compromised node.
By comparison, Mitt’s crew were naïve in the extreme.
Again, what you’re seeing is projection on a mass scale. The Democrat black hats were defensing against exactly the kind of op that they themselves were performing on the Republicans.
It’s just another ‘tell’ that they were engaged in fulsome corruption of the tabulation.
Insufficient imagination is shown as regards the delivery of a Nuclear Weapon to a target. A 737 armed with a gun type enriched Uranium 235 bomb and a suicide pilot as the guidance system can get the job done. Use three on different vectors flying at low level from Beirut,Cairo and Damascus. If you really want to accomplish something and you have the resources and dedicated fanatics available; it can be done. Reference NYC 9-11-2001. Interesting Times!
The air raid sirens in the first video are unfamiliar to most modern ears but I would think that older listeners would recognize them from the weekly tests, now discontinued. Many may only have heard them when watching a scene of the 1960 movie “The Time Machine” on late night TV. Few are now left outside of Israel or Iraq who remember when they meant you were under attack. Hearing that sound must be distressful to those elderly survivors. Perhaps it would focus people on the reality of evil if the system of weekly tests was revived in every city. In WW-II blackouts were enforced in places the enemy could never reach and rationing was imposed not out of economic necessity but to increase a feeling of common sacrifice.
Katana, you are way too optimistic. EVERYTHING dies in the process.That is the samson option.
Regardless of other factors, ala John Worden, what if Gaza suddenly had no power, electricity, or fresh water? After a few days, it wouldn’t matter whether IDF ground forces engaged or not, something would have to give. The Jews are usually humanitarian to a fault, but a strategic air campaign, while difficult for taking down a nation, wouldn’t be that difficult for taking down Gaza.
The Israelis have at their disposal many lethal weapons besides nukes. Not all depend on the “largesse” of the Obama regime. Mr. Erdogan should be concerned that Israel will dispense some of those vicious weapons to the Kurds. Mr. Morsi should also be concerned that Israel will destroy the Suez Canal.
Then there are the European “human rights” creatures who get on their high horses to undermine Israel’s trade. As a civilian, I can think of many ways to counteract those trade boycotts.
Finally, too many people are depending on the basic “niceness” of Jews. That could change at any time. Too many of us Jews now understand the mass insanity that is Islam.
As someone on an earlier Belmont Club thread (I believe) wrote: “Don’t keep poking the Grizzly Bear in the nose if you want to live.”
Under the terms of the Oslo Accords, the Palestinian Authority and Israel worked out a deal. Part of it covers water and electricity. However, there is no PA any more, so Israel has no obligations w/r/t Oslo. Time to schedule a curtailing and ending of electricity and water. Also diesel fuel. Let Egypt step up to the plate and supply Hamas and Co with the basics. Israel has been too accommodating and forgiving.
Give Gazans fair warning and wean them. And no more help from Israeli hospitals. You guys are on your own.
#48 Elle
Unfortunately the Sampson Option will only work against a protagonist who wishes to live. The Mullahs of Iran addressed the Sampson Option as of no consequence as the Islamic World could absorb the damage and survive even if somewhat diminished in extant. The Islamic death cult is akin to the Emperor worship of the Japanese in WWII. To die for the Emperor was the greatest honor.
The only solution was to kill them before they killed you. The kill ratio in the PTO was 22:1. The Islamic scourge must be treated the same. Think of dealing with a disease or a parasite; kill it before it kills you. The Sampson Option is defeatist!
#49 GreenEmUp . . .
You wrote this while I was writing my #50. Yes, of course, turning off the lights and water would be Step Number One. The time for “humanitarian” fighting is long past. Let the Norwegians, Brits, and Spanish moan and groan. To hell with them.
Re the fact that Turkey is in NATO. That’s already a joke. In fact, NATO is a joke. Why do we still have a NATO?
Armageddon Rex @ 20 – I like it! But let’s do a “Management of Change” document for the Israelis.
Q – What are we going to change?
A – Irsael’s response to rockets lobbed from Gaza into Israel.
Q – How are we going to change it?
A – We are going to lob one artillery shell for each rocket, right back in a radar guided counter-battery mode.
Q – How is that different from the current Iron-Dome response?
A – Instead of meeting the rocket head-on in mid-flight, we go after the people who shot that rocket.
Q – What is the philosophical basis for this action?
A – Guns (or in this case rockets) don’t kill people, people do. To eliminate the threat you have to eliminate the people who created the threat. A counter-battery strategy will do just that.
Q – Is it economically sustainable?
A – Yes, artillery shells are much cheaper than Iron-Dome rockets.
Q – Is is proportional?
A – One artillery shell per rocket, so yes it is proportional.
Q – Would it be effective?
A – If you use the equivalent of the VT fused shells lobbed at the Germans durng the Battle of the Bulge set to air burst, you can get a reasonable sized kill radius centered at the point of launch of the rocket. Close enough! The release of the Navy’s secret VT fuses to Army units was a powerful game changer during the Battle of the Bulge.
Q – Is there any risk to Israeli personnel within Gaza?
A – No. There will be no Israeli personnel entering Gaza, only artillery shells.
Q – How long do you keep it up?
A – Just as long as rockets are coming out, shells will be going in.
Q- Why might it be effective.
A – The explosive power of each shell is much greater than each rocket. That will teach those dopes in Gaza to bring a knife to a gun fight!
Q – From whom can Obama claim to be “leading from behind”?
A – His uncle who fought under Patton. It’s about time he quit mimicking the women in his life and started acting like a man.
Q – How will you know it is working?
A – The rockets stop coming out.
b @ 45: There’s no other way to explain their hyper-concern. For, if you look at the specifics of their ‘war game’ it was to get past any compromised node.
By comparison, Mitt’s crew were naïve in the extreme.
“Big Data” systems living by the CAP theorem expect failures, and you may have a further point that they should also anticipate active attacks. I suspect Mitt’s crew were really just not minimally competent, and what I really want to know is if it was developed offshore.
Mitt doesn’t strike me as a guy up to date on tech, have we seen him with a Blackberry, iPad, or even a cell phone? Not that I credit Obambus personally with anything regarding his campaign’s digital side, yet, well, if there were a lot going on, you’d think it would leak *up* to the candidate. I always fear Romney hiring useless pretenders from the country club (milk) bar, which is basically where I gather he got most of his senior staff.
Did any of that *really* matter? Dunno. Possibly not. Or possibly just the few tenths of a percent it needed to matter. Certainly Obambus’ fundraising over the net (and probably sucking in tons of illegal overseas cash) was somewhat significant. The meme is out that the Obambus campaign used cleverly placed (and very cheap) ads (I presume on cable tv) to target some low info demographics. I suspect it was the decision to target them at all which was effective, not the details of how it was done.
14. Black Bart
Turkey’s involvement could be troublesome. Turkey is a NATO ally, Isreal is not.
Yeah. I’d hate to lose an ally like the one that forced the Fourth ID to go around the world rather than attack Iraq from the north.
With friends like that you just have more enemies. In about 4 days or so, I’m going to EAT a turkey.
MachiasPrivateer @ 54:
Evidently I didn’t make the thrust of my proposition in a pointed enough manner, although I like your idea in general. I’m afraid it discounts remotely launched missiles and mortars. Al Qaeda and the Taliban made it an art form a decade ago using doorbell wire or basic telephone cord. The plan then is to intentionally draw fire onto schools, hospitals, baby milk factories, etc… for the propaganda value.
My intended message is that the West as a whole, and Israel specifically in this case, should stop futzing around with terrorist $h!tbags like we have been for 50 years. If they want to play the asymmetric warfare game lets oblige them. They can detonate a car-bomb here or there, or shoot up the random eatery, and once we get pissed off that they’re ignoring our rules and playing by theirs, well turn about is fair play, so we’ll wage war our way. We use our military to seize and keep their territory, or at least occupy it for 60 or 70 years by planting a military base there. It would send an extremely long overdue message from the West as a whole to Sh!tbags everywhere.
The only realistic way Israel is going to solve the current Gaza problem is to capitulate or make the Palestinian territory of Gaza go away forever. I simply proposed the most straightforward and only reliable way, historically, to do so.
Shalom
Armageddon Rex
‘still bitter and clingin’ to my guns!’
As far as things go in the theater, this time Israel is the de-facto hegemon in her neighborhood. She has been hated already, like all hegemons always have, but now she also has the initiative! How are things going to develop? Nobody can tell until Israel makes the next move, and we find out with which degree of success.
In the final analysis, whatever the perennial bloviators say, how isolated can a victor really be?
As always, no matter how badly they lost, in the end Hamas & consort will declare themselves the winners, that particular kind of winners who had one more time forgotten that you will burn your finger if you touch the stove. Business as usual, and the Oslo mirages lose one more fraction of their luster, again!
47. Blast From the Past
Sirens: They had a pretty good siren system in Montgomery, Al when word of a tornado touched down. Still an impressive sound. “Get to the basement!!!”
Strange. The system marked my comm. as a spam and it looks like it deleted it. Wretchard, can it be restored?
Thanks.
My call is that Israel takes Gaza and yields it to PA forces shipped over from the West Bank. Let Fatah suppress Hamas.
Regarding the Iron Dome system, it is working and working very well.
On the other hand, missiles are still landing in Israel’s cities and towns.
Salvos by the dozens.
By the hundreds. And counting.
Still.
And even if the missiles don’t land where they might damage property and kill, the terror factor is—and of course, this is the whole point—huge.
(Cue “Allahuakbar”.)
Which means that the system, good as it is, is being overwhelmed.
New Zealand has more sheep than people. Is it possible that Gaza has more missiles than people? Stockpiled under mosques, hospitals, homes, hotels, office buildings, old-age homes, kindergartens?
(Naw, Hamas wouldn’t do that, would they?)
That’s right. The system is being overwhelmed. (And what is the supply chain for Iron Dome, and how long can they continue to function?)
Ditto for Hezbullah. How many missiles do you think they’ve been stockpiling over the past half-dozen years? (What’s that you say? They’re not supposed to be doing that under UN 1711?)
Think Agincourt. Except with rockets and missiles instead of arrows.
Which is why the only thing the Israelis can do is either carpet bomb or go in and take the place apart, with the casualties that must accompany such an operation. (Olmert and his generals made the same mistake in 2006, hoping, ever-hoping that ground troops would not be necessary.)
Seems like Obama was tested by terrorists in Benghazi, and so far there has been no external response. We know Turkey’s not pleased with what’s going on in Syria, and is chafing over restraints. The Sauds are still pissed at Obama over Mubarak. Meanwhile, Iran’s ramping up the nuclear stockpiling. Bibi has come out talking about a seven month window, meaning by next June. Then Gaza flames up, testing the IDF. Over 600 missiles have been fired into Israel recently.
Does anyone in the world think this president we just re-elected is up for any this? Sure, the Middle East has been a festering mess long before Obama came along. But we’ve done things like invade Iraq twice now in an atmosphere of more clarity. Then again, both times we were taking action and (here’s that phrase Obama loves to lecture everyone but himself about) “putting skin in the game.” Looking back over Obama’s record, the only action he’s been for was Libya. He got burned pretty good on that one. What are the odds he’ll stick his neck out now? We know what Hamas has concluded about that!
Thoughts on ORCA: The Republican GOTV effort was FUBAR? Sadly, it was always so. Truly, situation normal. Never known it to be otherwise. Had to throw a screaming hysterical GOP precinct captain out of my house back in 1996, cause it was either that or shoot him, in the sickening wake of Clinton’s trouncing of Dole. And the Demcrats cheating? Again, this is nothing new at all. HOWEVER, this time they appear to have taken it to a new level and really outdone themselves. With nothing but circumstantial evidence, you can’t really do much about it but complain. As you SHOULD. Tell everybody you know you think this election was stolen. Cast doubt, shades of illegitimacy. Cite the amazing numbers from the precincts with 100% turnout, 100% for Obama. Cite the fact that Romney closed having to turn folks away, while Obama stood there crying beside Bruce Springsteen and Jay-Z to a less than half full arena. And so forth. Cite the circumstantial stuff. Don’t let the fact that you don’t have a smoking gun shut you down. The Alinsyites are betting you will, on account of your amusing (to them) propensity to insist on things like morality, reason, etc.
Lutas @61…
Hamas cut its eye teeth shredding Fatah to pieces.
Pay attention to the news — or history.
————-
Barry @ 62…
Agincourt has been — only recently — been given scientific analysis.
Amazingly, the battleground is STILL strewn with debris from that time. Thusly, it was possible to correct the hugely distorted historical accounts.
1) It was proved that the power of the English longbow — whatever its merits — was of little import to the battle. I know, that astonished the English research team, me, too.
2) The French, in every sense of the word, self-destructed at Agincourt. The weather was lousy, foggy, so that the battle action was almost entirely obscured from the French command. Their numerical dominance was so vast that the nobles were chaffing at the bit to charge the English position. But the ground broke down, away from the plain, unless you narrowed your frontage as you advanced. Horses, being horses, hate running parallel to such a slope — and so closed in from left and right — wedging the knights tight as they closed in. Even before they reached the English, they knocked each other off their mounts. This a consequence of the fog, the mud and the English counter-fire. Once dismounted, anyone wearing armor was trapped by the hydraulic suction between mud and steel. The French knights literally gave themselves heat stroke trying to get back up to their feet. Since every man there was so armored — no one was at hand to lift them up.
3) The knight’s weapons never had any impact on the English lines whatsoever. Hence, the English suffered essentially no casualites to speak of. The French dead mounted into the thousands. Later charges suffocated those that came before.
4) The French never attempted a flanking attack because of time, the terrain, the fog and the nearby existence of English forts. The last, triggering concern that the English would trap them and sally forth.
5) Agincourt, in many ways was a prequel to Pickett’s Charge. Again, the fog/ gunsmoke, time pressure, straight-ahead thrust, wedge compression of the attacking force… and a complete failure of the high command to appreciate just how far off the rails the whole enterprise was going.
6) The fog on the magic day was so bad that long range archery was useless.
7) The modern experts were shocked to find that the English bows were, in fact, not able to penetrate the contemporary French armor — which had been adjusted up precisely to thwart the long bow — and some of the nastier cross-bows of the era. Just like tank armor in WWII, it was being toughened up as the threats rose. The knights in question could and did pay for the very best. They simply fought on bad ground and under — for them — the worst weather imaginable. ( A fog and mist that did not bother the English — but which made heavy cavalry vulnerable to mud capture. )
[ The modern experts tested the mud capture force -- and were astounded to find that it would take a team of men to lift even ONE fallen knight. You see the same phenomenon when ships get stuck in the tidal flat mud. Until the water pressure seeps on by the mud, such a ship is not going anywhere.
This is the reason for the Mulberry panic in April 1944. It was at this time some attempt was made to re-float test sections prior to D-Day. The process was so difficult it became a top secret panic -- solved by involving the King of England! (As naval go-between to Churchill, he was contacted by Adm Stark with the bad news. Stark brought it up with the King, Admiral in Chief to Admiral in Chief.) Even after all of the water was pumped out, the Mulberries took hours to pop loose. One never quite knew just how fast sea pressure would trickle back under their immense bottoms.
The whole fiasco was covered top secret, so most histories do not touch upon it.]
===========
And in other ancient news: the Battle of Hastings may well have been mis-located by a country mile for 950-years. The traditionally ascribed battle site doesn’t have any residual artifacts. Excavations are pending at ‘site B.’ Surely, it will make it to video if it is found.
Like Agincourt, site B requires a completely alternate history of the battle. It is contended that King Harold was rallying his troops when the Normans jumped him. He was defeated piece meal. No horse charge was involved, whatsoever. The terrain would prohibit it.
========
We now know that Waterloo is a battle mis-told; and that the Stalingrad battle accounts circulating for decades are pure trash…
Wait till the rest of WWII gets detected by forensics and databases.
Thanks Blert.
Fascinating, as usual.
I did read, recently, about the Battle of Hastings re-assessment and the potential finds there, once they start digging up that trench.
Didn’t know about Agincourt, though. (Guess Hollywood has a few remakes on its hands…)
Still, my concerns about massive missile (and other) attacks on Israel from multiple directions remain unassuaged. If Israel’s neighbors believe that they will be able to overwhelm her, especially if she appears friendless—and the ground-softening, delegimitization campaign being waged over the past dozen years has been extraordinarily effective), they won’t hesitate.
And if Israel is forced—and is able—to decimate its attackers, then watch out for attempts at wholesale slaughter in the wider world on Jewish communities there.
File under: Perfect Storm
Armageddon Rex @ 57 – Why would Israel want to seize Gazan territory? It is a hell hole. The problem is that by catering to the theoretical Gaza moderates by avoiding collateral damage to them and their property, you have given them veto power over winning your war on terrorists. Eliminate the sanctuaries for the terrorists by having the nominal human shields turn against the terrorists for you. Force them to make a choice, side with Israel or the terrorists. (See “The Anbar Awakening”).
“All it takes for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing.” What you need is for the “good” Gazans to stop letting the “bad” Gazans trespass upon their property to shoot missiles at Israel without consequences. The problem is similar to ridding the ‘hood of gangbangers. The biggest complaint of scared, but well intentioned, citizens in bad neighborhoods is that they get no police response when they do call 911. So cut a deal. Give them a number to call with the address and/or GPS co-ordinates of the bad guys. Israel uses its drones to take a quick peek, and if they see rockets being set up for launch, they pre-emptively do a little counter-battery live fire. That would catch the bad guys in the act, before launch. Offer rewards to the informants. Get your own force of Forward Artillery Controllers on the cheap!
And as the old song put it
Accentuate the positive, eliminate the negative…. don’t mess with Mister In-Between. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZUmAbi0Vm4
All you’ve got to do is teach them “The Chicago Way”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ScvAJG51V4
Please note that mining Haiphong changed that game too.
Hamas has been begging for war for years and years. I don’t know how may times they have “declared war” on Israel, except that it’s non-zero.
The question of why Israel has not obliged them is a puzzle to me. The greatest immediate threat to the survival of the State of Israel and its population is their reluctance to go medieval on Hamas and the Gazans.
Maybe someday Israel will cop on and eliminate Gaza. What’s the worst that could happen? The Arabs would get mad?
barry @11: “It’s not really possible to do that without killing a whole lot of Gazans. Undesirable from an Israeli/Jewish POV; moreover, that would be win-win for Hamas, too.”
Undesirable? Win-win for Hamas? Rather depends on the body count, no?
Even Germans and Japanese had a breaking point, after all. And these are freaking ARABS you’re talking about.
Try it. You’ll like it!
From Ace, Stratfor is allegedly saying that the long range missiles being shot into Israel are being made in Gaza. Ergo, it seems Arm Rex’s solution or something like it is the necessary answer to the missile problem.
Buldoze the place, and teach the Palestinians a lesson they won’t forget. What is the Left and Obama going to do? They already blame most of the mideast ills on Israel already, and the significance of such an attack would likely be lost in the network news normal noise and bullsheet. Not that Israel is a wolf, but when you cry wolf too often, nobody pays attention when the wolf actually comes aknockin.
#64 blert
Fascinating. Do you have a cite of the new investigation I can chase down?
#66 MachiasPrivateer
I submit that you are overestimating the prevalence of “Good Gazans”.
There are multiple generations raised to hate Israel, Jews, and Infidels. The indoctrination is so complete that they deliberately destroyed existing working farms and industries that had been left behind when all Israelis pulled out to give the land to them; because they had been contaminated by contact with Jews. They and their children are starving and living on international charity … and they destroyed farms that could feed them.
The solution is to go either “Old Testament” or Roman on them. Yes, you invade. No, you do not try to occupy or rule the Palestinian population. You give them a choice at the point of a gun; leave now, or die. Force them into the Sinai to live or die on the charity of the Egyptians. Prelude should be a cut off of all utilities to Gaza. Bomb the sole, off-and-on operating power plant in Gaza. Take out the water supply beginning in the north of Gaza to start people moving towards Sinai. Make leaving preferable to staying before the invasion.
This is actually far more merciful than anything that they have promised Israel for generations. If the Egyptians take this as a casus belli, keep in mind that the Egyptians have allowed Palestinians to fire rockets from Egyptian territory into Israel. And not the small, home-made rockets sometimes fired; but Norinco [Chinese made] 107mm military weapons. These being military weapons that are in the Egyptian army inventory as the PRL81 rocket launcher [what they call the Chinese Type 63 12-tube towed rocket launcher], there is the not unreasonable possibility that it was Egyptian army forces that fired the rockets AND THAT would be an act of war by Egypt against Israel.
There is no act, short of suicide, that would make the rest of the world [including the US government] pleased with Israel. With the US now de-facto siding with the Muslim Brotherhood, they need to look to their own survival and best interest.
Subotai Bahadur
There’s this on the Battle of Hastings:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2223119/Battle-Hastings-No-Battle-Caldbec-Hill-Real-site-1066-carnage-mile-away-claims-historian.html
MP@54
As a member of a counter-mortar radar unit (our side) 50 years ago, could you explain the improvemants to the concept. I like your idea. Is it possible to achieve rapid return fire, within seconds of launch. The air-burst concept is good too, (You push the button Rashid, I’ll be in the bunker.)
MachiasPrivateer @66:
I’m slow on the uptake. It’s clear to me now that we perceive the nature of the conflict and realistic solution sets coming from entirely different paradigms. The solutions you proposed in your post @66 have been tried repeatedly in one form or another, for decades, with no significant progress.
I propose no more Palestinian Gaza residents. End. Stop!
Rapidly and forcefully relocate them all to the West bank, other Islamic nations, or they take a dirt nap Insha Allah.
As for: “Why would Israel want to seize Gazan territory? It is a hell hole.” Please review the history of Israel. When Zionists arrived in what would become Israel, beginning at the end of the 19th century, the entire area was a “hell hole”. It had been thus since the defeat of the Eastern Roman Empire. The Jews and many Arabs who had called the area home for centuries worked with the Zionist European and American university trained agronomists, engineers, architects and businessmen to transformed it into, if not a paradise on earth, productive factories and farms, connected by modern roads, with modern sanitation, communication, and most importantly, rule of law, or at least far superior rule of law compared to anything in the area since the Romans left.