- Sen. Harry Reid Says Mosque Should Not Be Built Near Ground Zero
- Muslim leaders reportedly abandon plans for Ground Zero community center
There’s a point in every movie when the characters realize that their efforts are having a visible effect on their seemingly invincible antagonist. This is usually the dramatic turning point of the film. That doesn’t mean the movie’s over and the typical rules still apply, the principal one being, never, never believe it’s over just because the soundtrack has calmed down after an apparently climatic sequence and because protagonists are now chatting in the supposedly safe scene. Remember that the antagonist always revives before the final credits.
One of the pillars of civil society is mutual respect. If the Muslim leaders have truly abandoned their plans for the Mosque it will be prove a better salve between the communities than any unction that Western apologists can offer. The “mutual” part is apt to prove impossible unless concluded between two parties worthy of respect. The reason why groveling never works is because there can be no agreement between a man and a slug. And one test of a civilization’s ability to deal is whether it is willing to speak not only on behalf of itself but for the dead who gave it life. Perhaps the Muslim leaders are inwardly grateful that an outcry emerged; a victory over Bloomberg and Obama over the issue of the Ground Zero mosque would have been a victory over nothing. The spirit of the west may be in sad decline, but there are still some who remember the oath of men.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.
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It is essential for the KSA government sponsorship of such an expensive victory symbol be exposed.
Cut through the cut-outs.
More generally, stop ANY further construction of alien funded mosques, and that would be all of them.
Further, no more visas for muslims until freedom of religion is FULLY permitted in KSA. And we know what a deal breaker that would be.
NEVER FORGET: 100% of the most destructive terrorists got college educations in the West with western subsidies.
So WHY are we educating any more time bombs?
Hope* vs Fear*: The O’Sisters.
“Obama has settled on his message”.
…-
“Obama pleads to voters: ‘Don’t give in to fear’
Flying thousands of miles to reap millions of dollars, President Barack Obama is dashing across the country to help his party retain power, essentially offering one familiar argument: Republicans don’t solve problems.
“Don’t give in to fear,” Obama said Monday in his latest ominous vision of a country led by the opposition party. “Let’s reach for hope.”"
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100816/ap_on_re_us/us_obama
…-
Hope* vs Fear*:
“Charles Lamb:
“Hope* is charming, lively, blue-eyed wench, & I am always glad of her company, but could dispense with the visitor she brings with her, her younger sister, fear*, a white liver’d-lilly-cheeked, bashful palpitating, awkward hussey that hangs like a green girl at her sister’s apron strings & will go with her whithersoever she goes.”
(Letters of Charles and Mary Anne Lamb)
Wretchard says: The “mutual” part is apt to be forgotten unless it is forcefully but properly insisted on, especially on behalf of the dead who have no voice but that of the living.
As was said at another site in 1863: But, in a larger sense, we can not dedicate, we can not consecrate, we can not hallow this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us—that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion—that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain—that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom—and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.
OT
I see the first stage of hyperinflation is underway: China is now publically shunning the USD in favor of the Euro.
Their motivation is the Pelosi budget… TWICE tax receipts. We’re buying their exports with mere computer entries.
At least Euros, at current values, can be traded for quality goods.
Ultimately, Russia and China ( big gold miners ) are going to be compelled to convert their reserves into gold, silver and other physical assets. NONE of the fiat powers is going to stop inflating their currency.
“Official: Reports by Haaretz are completely false. We are committed to plans of building Park 51 to serve the community of Lower Manhattan.”
https://twitter.com/Park51/status/21346144876
“Sources in New York said on Monday that Muslim religious and business leaders will announce plans to abandon the project in the next few days.”
There are also those scenes in movies when the hero defeats one group of villains, only to turn around and realize there were more behind him.
Pardon me for being skeptical — but an announcement from anonymous sources about an action which has not happened leaked to a left-wing Israeli newspaper? That does not sound like a reliable source on internal Muslim discussions. It could equally be a left-wing New York Jew trying to get a story off the front pages before is does further harm to He Who Walks On Water.
“Official: Reports by Haaretz are completely false. We are committed to plans of building Park 51 to serve the community of Lower Manhattan.”
The task is to make the report by Haaretz true. But the first cracks are starting to show and if the pressure builds up the dam will crack.
“The reason why groveling never works is because there can be no agreement between a man and a slug.”
Thank you.
As far as building the Mosque elsewhere, it seems they don’t want to. Makes a rational person wonder what the real purpose behind building a mosque there was. A memorial to Islamic suicide bombers? Anybody else remember the fuss about the original design for the replacement of the WTC having a mosque in it?
That didn’t fly and it looks like around the corner is going to work either. What is next?
General Vanier Elementary
1963
Grade 5
http://www.histori.ca/minutes/minute.do?id=10200
Again with the “hope” theme.
Hope is not a plan. Hope is not a strategy.
Hope is what you hide your fear in with when you are failing and have no ideas.
The Obama administration is all about hope.
As far as building the Mosque elsewhere, it seems they don’t want to
This is an example of the “No” tactic as used by the antagonist. The thing to remember about “No” is that it is an act of will, not an act of reason. The standard approach to public discourse is to use logic. But pitted against no it loses the asymmetrical conflict. This is why all those concessions to Hamas are useless. The debate is not about apartments in East Jerusalem or anything like that. They are glad to palm anything that is offered up incidentally but that is nothing to the point. At heart of it is the “no”. No to Israel’s existence. No is about imposing your will on the enemy. The mosque is not about reasons like the First Amendment or anything like that. It is about imposing their will while Bloomberg and whoever else offer reasons.
The response, as I wrote previously is to use “No” against them. No. Once No is firmly implanted in our heads, then we look for reasons. That’s the game. So the antagonist will offer some concession. Take it, but the answer is still No. And keep at it until they don’t ask any more but simply go away.
There’s a classic scene in the 1960s movie the Battle of Britain when Dowding waits and waits for the Luftwaffe to come and they don’t. That’s when he knows he’s won.
There’s something happening here
What it is ain’t exactly clear
There’s a man with a gun over there
Telling me I got to beware
I think it’s time we stop, children, what’s that sound
Everybody look what’s going down
There’s battle lines being drawn
Nobody’s right if everybody’s wrong
Young people speaking their minds
Getting so much resistance from behind
I think it’s time we stop, hey, what’s that sound
Everybody look what’s going down
What a field-day for the heat
A thousand people in the street
Singing songs and carrying signs
Mostly say, hooray for our side
It’s time we stop, hey, what’s that sound
Everybody look what’s going down
Paranoia strikes deep
Into your life it will creep
It starts when you’re always afraid
You step out of line, the man come and take you away
Bob McDonnell has come out against the mosque. He’s a Republican but any time you get a politician willing to publicly commit and stake his reputation on your side of No, then it’s a win. Because now that McDonnell has bet his face on the proposition and he’s got a vested interest in winning the argument.
The important thing is to keep the Nos coming. In ones, twos, threes and fours. No. No. No. Eventually you get to a tipping point and that’s where you want Obama and the Cordoba Mosque, holding on to the chain as it goes over the political edge, too late to let go.
Listen politely to the reasons for the Mosque. But the answer is still no.
“THE TORTURE OF HOPE
(La torture par l’esperance)
by Villiers de l’Isle-Adam
from Nouveaux contes cruels
MANY years ago, as evening was closing in, the venerable Pedro Arbuez d’Espila, sixth prior of the Dominicans of Segovia, and third Grand Inquisitor of Spain, followed by a fra redemptor, and preceded by two familiars of the Holy Office, the latter carrying lanterns, made their way to a subterranean dungeon. The bolt of a massive door creaked, and they entered a mephitic in pace, where the dim light revealed between rings fastened to the wall a blood-stained rack, a brazier, and a jug. On a pile of straw, loaded with fetters and his neck encircled by an iron carcan, sat a haggard man, of uncertain age, clothed in rags.
This prisoner was no other than Rabbi Aser Abarbanel, a Jew of Aragon, who–accused of usury and pitiless scorn for the poor–had been daily subjected to torture for more than a year. Yet “his blindness was as dense as his hide,” and he had refused to abjure his faith.
Proud of a filiation dating back thousands of years, proud of his ancestors–for all Jews worthy of the name are vain of their blood–he descended Talmudically from Othoniel and consequently from Ipsiboa, the wife of the last judge of Israel, a circumstance which had sustained his courage amid incessant torture. With tears in his eyes at the thought of this resolute soul rejecting salvation, the venerable Pedro Arbuez d’Espila, approaching the shuddering rabbi, addressed him as follows:
“My son, rejoice: your trials here below are about to end. If in the presence of such obstinacy I was forced to permit, with deep regret, the use of great severity, my task of fraternal correction has its limits. You are the fig tree which, having failed so many times to bear fruit, at last withered, but God alone can judge your soul. Perhaps Infinite Mercy will shine upon you at the last moment! We must hope so. There are examples. So sleep in peace tonight. Tomorrow you will be included in the auto da fe: that is, you will be exposed to the quemadero, the symbolical flames of the Everlasting Fire: it burns, as you know, only at a distance, my son; and Death is at least two hours (often three) in coming, on account of the wet, iced bandages with which we protect the heads and hearts of the condemned. There will be forty-three of you. Placed in the last row, you will have time to invoke God and offer to Him this baptism of fire, which is of the Holy Spirit. Hope in the Light, and rest.”
With these words, having signed to his companions to unchain the prisoner, the prior tenderly embraced him. Then came the turn of the fra redemptor, who, in a low tone, entreated the Jew’s forgiveness for what he had made him suffer for the purpose of redeeming him; then the two familiars silently kissed him. This ceremony over, the captive was left, solitary and bewildered, in the darkness.”
http://gaslight.mtroyal.ab.ca/villier5.htm
I say no too. Does that help? F
“They are glad to palm anything that is offered up incidentally but that is nothing to the point. At heart of it is the “no”.”
Sadly, sadly, sadly I must disagree with Wretchard’s hopeful analysis. As long as the abettors of the Muslim insurrection remain, and that list includes:
1. Most of our political leadership (on both sides),
2. Virtually ALL of our academy,
3. Virtually ALL of our media
… the Muslim threat will persist as if there was no “No”. What is worse, the Muslims are positioned to exploit any “No” experienced by them as a new fantastic opportunity to demand more concessions and dismiss more terror and excuse their incipient rage and hatefulness.
Being the best shakedown artists in the world (even better than our own home grown marvels like the race pimp triumvirate of Jackson, Sharpton, and Obama…), if they can work it, they will.
Do not be mistaken; preventing this new Islamic obscenity near ground zero is admirable in itself, and for that, (if it actually is stopped),I am heartily glad for it. But this parasitic enemy is far more adept at exploiting our weaknesses and fully taking advantage of those cultural precepts which we think of as strengths (freedom, tolerance, morality) to perform Jihad Jujitsu against us. They take our planes and turn them into missiles to murder us. They take our cell phones and use them to detonate bombs. They take our freedoms and use them to insinuate themselves into every stratum of our civilization. They use the staggering wealth we have shovelled towards them for their oil, oil which was extracted using our technolgy, and pervert that wealth to spread more Jihad, and to resurrect their moribund blood drenched religion. Last, they take the useful idiots which are super-abundant in our civilization, and use them as the vanguard of their ongoing Jihad assault.
In short, the presence of Muslims, abetted by the fools who tolerate them, create their own grotesque synergy — this dynamic guarantees that the Jihad of the Muslims will continue unabated, and merely pop up at another location at another time.
If they build the this mosque, we will know it for what it is, a marking of their perceived territory. It marks their territory the same when the Dome on the Rock and the Cordoba Mosque were constructed as symbols of the latest high water mark.
So be it. It will be the visible focus of their arrogance and our anger. I’d hate to be assigned to their NYPD detail. It will be a soapbox, a circus, a thornlike reminder, and a focus on our territory.
New York paint shops won’t be able to keep spray paint on their shelves. Perhaps someone will really start a gay Moslem’s strip club, or a Jimmy Dean’s pork sausage outlet next door. Maybe some will start an “Everything Mohammed” shop with his image on t-shirts, teaspoons, towels, and coffee mugs. Perhaps some will start “Everything Lefty” bath shop with dualply toilet paper in bulk.
Americans are prone to forgive and forget. This will be one grand thumb in our eye. So be it. I think it will keep the flame alive.
What happened to the Muslim ideal of the Ummah? What happened to the notion that Muslims must help one another?
Instead of helping Pakistanis in one of worst flood disasters in recent memory, we face a clique of rich Muslims whose sole intention is to poke non-Muslims in the eye while their Muslim coreligionists suffer.
The “Cordoba Mosque” is a complete waste of time, money, and effort. And for what purpose? Alienating non-Muslims? This wasteful spending at a time when Pakistanis are suffering sends a chilling message that Islamic charity has become a contradiction in terms. Muslims ought to be raising money for Pakistani relief instead!
A Muslim who refuses to show human compassion for Pakistani flood victims betrays himself as a man with the heart of a slug. Imams should be ashamed of themselves!
One of the pillars of civil society is mutual respect.
The insult that is this building can maybe be the beginning of a more full public understanding of islam and its goals.
—————–
Wretchard is absolutely right. NO is the answer. The only answer. The utility of Alinsky’s rules are rooted in the Western obligation to the Rule of Reason. There are some things about which we should be unreasonable. IF they question or challenge the reply, we simply reply “We will look for the First Baptist Church of Riyadh.” and further, in the vernacular of the Internets, “STFU”
Alexis:
Im sorry, darlin,’ but ’twas the will of allah. Get over it.
Now from a Christian perspective its just awful but note from whence the relief will come. Hint: not Araby.
Let’s remember General Anthony Clement McAuliffe, U.S. Army, commanding the 101st Airborne defenders of Bastogne in the Battle of the Bulge late in World War II. When given an ultimatum to surrender by officers of the Germans surrounding them, he replied succinctly:
“Nuts!”
#13 – I continue to be proud of my governor. Go Virginia!
Wretchard says just say NO!
The Mosque Of The Red Death
By Edgar Allan No
Prince Prospero has just announced
A ball, with gaiety pronounced
And wit and lively music for the dance
While through the land the red death roams
As people lose both jobs and homes
And liberty and freedom have no chance
The Prince has turned the White House rooms
Into the shades of flowered blooms
With blue and green and bright red colored walls
In costume dancers swing and sway
And drink and laugh the night away
Don’t go into this room. Prospero calls
Into the ball there comes a wraith
Who says we must have hope and faith
A place of worship, holy prayer and grace
The features of the wraith are black
His costume torn and tattered sack
With blood and terror written on his face
He strides with arrogance each room
Pronouncing all will meet their doom
And strides into the room now black and red
Prospero follows in his wake
Apology he needs to make
But when he sees the wraith the Prince falls dead
And so it goes with those who dance
And think the Left a true romance
And being nice and bowing to the foe
Is just a sign of gentlemen
Who do not see the moment when
The red death is upon them and they go
The thing about “no” is it puts you in the correct frame of mind. Back in the day I moved into a really rough place and the local thug came up to me and asked for my mosquito net, which was totally worthless. But he wasn’t asking for the mosquito net. He was asking me to pay obeisance to him. The words were “give me your mosquito net”, but the thought was “bow down to me”. So I said no, but nicely. He asked again but I still said no.
It was dicey moment. I had to ask myself whether that cheapjack, rotten mosquito net was worth mixing it up with him, if it came to that. And the odds against winning were poor. But they were not zero. What’s important to remember was that he was also making the calculation: was that filthy mosquito net worth mixing it up with me? I made it easy for him to back off. But back off he did. It was a rational decision on his part. I could’ve gotten lucky.
But luck would have availed me nothing if I had submitted. Luck works best in conjunction with “no”.
The next time the thug came to see me it was to seek help writing a love letter in English to the girl who ran the neighborhood store. I helped with the spelling and grammar. I still remember the words I suggested:
I thought that would go over like a lead balloon with the lady. I kid you not when I learned to my surprise, that it actually impressed the readers. That’s the Sigue-sigue Commando for you.
Somewhere somebody produced a cup of instant chicken noodle soup. Inquiring where it came from I learned it came from some poor sap who was intimidated into handing it over.
The lesson I never forgot from that and similar incidents is that if you put your face where they can kick it, they will. Whatever it costs, the answer is no.
The grand opening of Cordoba House was slated for September 11, 2011. Even without the controversial location, the date of its opening was a deliberate provocation. Freedom of expression, freedom of speech, the freedom of religion, and freedom of conscience all guarantee opponents of this institutional insult the right to object to that insult. We have a God given right to object.
We all know that no Saudi royals have been out there saving Pakistani lives in the flooding. Is heroism beneath them? The juxtaposition between Cordoba House and the Pakistani floods is obvious – the right to control Medina and Mecca goes to those who save the lives of Pakistanis in trouble.
An ‘anti-war protester’ threw a pie in Carl Levin’s face. Reason: Levin wasn’t left-wing enough.
That’s the leftist “no” in action. The left will come at you like wolverines until you jump and down like a trained dog and do their bidding exactly. Giving in to them is no good, because they’ll always be back for more. “No it’s not enough” as they always say. So the best thing to do is try to get this left wing activist sentenced for a long time. “No two years is not enough” and they up the sentence to three years then demand “no ten years is not enough”. And keep at it until there are no more years left in the calendar.
“No” is an insane attitude, and that is by the way, another reason to try it out. You never fully appreciate just how crazy the left is until you mirror them.
Is it not odd that there are so many people, especially on the Left, who will at once both embrace symbolism and reject it as sophistic hooey?
A black child goes to a white school. A woman goes to a military academy. A female is elected Speaker of the House. Federal funding of fetal stem cell research is approved. And it’s all Great Moments In Hissstooorrry.
But a mosque opens on 11 Sep a couple of blocks from the WTC. And its what’s the big deal, you bunch of rubes? Don’mean nothin.
For the signing of the peace treaty in Tokyo Bay, the USS Missouri, a class of ship that represented the mightiest battleships afloat and named for the home state of the President of the USA, served as the site of the signing ceremony. And the next ship over, the USS West Virginia, represented a much older class of ship, and something else much more important; it had been sunk on 7 Dec 1941 and now it was in Tokyo Bay. That’s symbolism.
Although meant in the greatest humanism…
The Pakistani rescue operations on our part are a strategic mistake.
It would be far, far wiser to stand aside and let the ummah step-up.
Like Allenby we should ONLY pick up the burden AFTER a quid pro quo.
Our primary concern should be a permanent redress of our logistical route into AfPak.
I’ve posted on this before.
THE ONLY TIME you’ll get Islamabad to come to terms is after some such fiasco which fulsomely illustrates that they have not taken care of essential government business. As long as they are permitted to divert funding away from critical infrastructure — they will. We want to force Islamabad in to de-militarizing. The weaker they get the more rational they must become.
Should, for any reason, a muslim power ever get to a breakout threshold — they will. Every last despot wants to re-integrate the ummah and take on the planet.
SO maybe this is the trial balloon.
If so, it seems to be flying.
wrethchard on 10/27/10 post this on pj and everywhere.
http://www.nationalcenter.org/ReaganChoosing1964.html
Wretchard says: The left will come at you like wolverines until you jump and down like a trained dog and do their bidding exactly. Giving in to them is no good, because they’ll always be back for more.
Another case in point: “Frank says Obama should have been harder on GOP”
“Or so says US Representative Barney Frank, who, rallying supporters recently in Provincetown, said the problem with the Democrats’ reelection message — that things could have been worse — can be traced back to the flawed messaging of the Obama administration.
Frank said Obama made a critical mistake when he took office in January 2009 by being too nice to Republicans and failing to tell the public just how bad things were following the presidency of George W. Bush. That has left Frank and other Democrats vulnerable to Republican attacks that they are to blame for problems facing the nation — from the intractable war in Afghanistan to the economic collapse at home — when the roots of those crises were planted during the Bush administration, Frank said.
‘The president was not partisan enough; he did not put the blame where it lay, and so we’re in a tough fight now,’ he told roughly 70 attendees at a fund-raiser.”
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2010/08/15/frank_says_obama_should_have_been_harder_on_gop/
Neo-Neocon posted some material from a 2009 article in American Thinker about the nature of the wolverine that is Barney Frank: “In 1991, Barney Frank received an official reprimand for reflecting ‘discredit upon the House.’ The reprimand came as a result of his relationship with a man named Steve Gobi, a male prostitute whom Frank initially paid $80 for sex. Frank later took Gobi to live with him in his home, making him a personal aide. He paid him $20,000 in compensation (unreported to the IRS) and let him use his car. . . . After Gobi, Barney Frank become involved in another questionable — and possibly criminally tainted — relationship with a man called Herb Moses. Moses, whom Frank called his ‘spouse,. was a high-level executive at Fannie Mae from 1991 until 1998. Dubbed a ‘mortgage guru’ by the National Mortgage News, Moses boasted that he helped develop ‘many of Fannie Mae’s affordable housing and home improvement lending programs.’”
http://neoneocon.com/2010/08/16/delay-after-6-years-no-charges-in-abramoff-case/
Actually, if someone threw a pie at Barney Frank, he’d probably eat what was left of it.
–When Pigs fly… in Riyadh–
The Mosque and Obama’s speech and his partial rollback are really annoying but probably not a political blunder and certainly not an unthoughtout move.
If the Mosque is not built Obama will take credit for it and for his policy of apologize for everything American and if it does get built he will win kudos from his far Left base, get lots of foreign campaign money, and keep the economy off the front page for a week.
If Dems in swing districts go down in the Fall what does he care? he has passed his major initiatives and for him the 2012 campaign has already begun. Since blame Bush will have lost all currency by then and indeed might bring up unfavorable comparisons among some he need a demon to run against and that will be the obstructionist Republicans in congress.
The move may defy conventional political wisdom but Obama is not a conventional politician. He doesn’t play small ball.
Post removed by the author
A friend, a Turkish Christian told me never, ever to trust a Moslem. As individuals they can be fine, even friends. But as a group, led by their religion they are as rabid dogs, Islam has no love in it, none. So Moslems are best eliminated as one would the ebola virus or a pack of rabid wolves. We hold no personal animosity against individual viruses, wolves or Moslems, its simply that they are infected with a lethal poison and are far too dangerous to be allowed to live near us.
Gerry N.
Even the local news outlets are whining about the fact that Obama is not able to give cudos for a reviving economy due to the hubub over the “pigs attempting to fly… in Riyadh”.
Of course Afghanistan and Iran have taken back seats in the news because of the reports of “pigs flying in Riyadh.”
And now the issues of immigration and border battles are being shoved off the front page while reporters concentrate on scooping all the others about the color, weight and snout markings of the “pigs flying in Riyadh!”
New Yorkers have been cautioned to be grateful all they have to put up with are pigeon droppings and a little stray parrot scat…, Meanwhile in Mumbai!
Answer’s not “no”, it’s HELL NO!
I search for a word, or barring that, an analogy, simile or metaphor to describe our situation. We are under siege. And when besieged, there is only one answer and one choice, and that is “No!”
This isn’t a Mt. Masada or an Alamo or anything even close to it, but it will be soon enough if the left and islam succeed in this double-teamed war of rhetorical attrition.
We don’t need reasons, or to justify our position when the answer is without need of qualification- “No!”.
It isn’t a Iwo Jima or a Guadalcanal or anything close to it neither. The marines don’t fight our fights for us, but they will, if we have failed.
Islam and the left cannot win without our consent, and that’s why they have joined forces in order to name their mutual demons, and collaborate on their mutual games of deceit and incrementalism.
I think I remember reading the mosquito net story a while ago here when Wretchard posted it in another context. It is excellent. The power of NO well illustrated. And the foolishness of capitulation illustrated as well.
But while we are saying NO, we must also say YES. We must say YES to the Declaration of Independence and to the Constitution, we must say YES to whatever branch of the Judeo-Christian faith to which we belong, we must say YES to Shakespeare, Beethoven, and the other greats of our civilization.
If we don’t say YES to something we truly believe in and will defend, we will have difficulty sustaining our NO to those who would destroy us.
What is less obvious about the mosquito net story is that the advantage lies with the defense when absolute commitment is used as strategy. Because I was on the defensive I had no choice but to say “no”. Because the thug was on the offensive he had a realistic option to withdraw and try for softer game. Otherwise he would have to really screw up his determination to go for it because he had the option to walk away, which I did not.
Back in World War 2 the Japanese used the asymmetry to their defensive advantage. By 1944 Japan’s homeland was at risk. So the Japanese basically dug in, hoping that the US public would eventually walk away from the home islands as not being worth a million US casualties. It takes more grit to maintain the offensive when you are not existentially threatened than to to resist to the utmost when you are existentially threatened.
The real information that pops out the Ground Zero mosque episode is how little grit our cultural elites have. It’s like pushing your finger against an unbaked cheesecake. We had all the psychological advantages of the defense. We could have just said ‘no’. Government says ‘no’ all the time to perfectly legal requests. An acquaintance described an energy project in which the DOE basically set so many requirements it would have taken 25 years to meet them. That’s a no to all intents and purposes. If a zoning or planning board wants to keep something from being built they can always find some way to say ‘no’. But you have to want to express the negative first. And it looks like some people were so intent on proving their moral superiority they were willing to let someone crap on grandma’s grave to prove it. So the will to say no was not there. They fell all over themselves to say ‘yes’.
That weakness among our powder-puff elites will not go unnoticed. The antagonists won’t believe for a second that all this abjection is the result of courage. The only people who’ll believe that crock are the loyal readers of the liberal press. Self-delusion to the last. “See how courageous we are”. Ha.
But as for the Muslim world, they’ll know it exactly for what it is: an embarrassing cowardice. It’s a wonder they can even stand to take compliments from these pushovers; it would feel so slimy. The rest of the Muslim world has figured it out already. The President’s popularity is at rock bottom. And once they get the scent of fear that positively oozes out of this mosque thing — once they get the mosquito net — then the next demands will be for the pants, the shirt, the wallet. Maybe at some point the elites will resist, but maybe it will be too little and too late.
W @ 40: That weakness among our powder-puff elites will not go unnoticed. The antagonists won’t believe for a second that all this abjection is the result of courage. They’ll know it exactly for what it is: low down, yellow-livered sniveling.
Bravo.
The only remaining question regarding the motives of the left is the proportion by which they are misguided, naive, cowardly, manipulated by others, sincerely mistaken, or deliberately seeking the ruination of the West.
Your essay and elaboration of the power of NO is one of the rare optimistic things I have believed in a long time. We will soon see whether or not we are up to the challenge.
I guess you toned it down a bit.
W
Sorry, but the Resident keeps on digging.
So he’s NOT at rock bottom.
I agree batman. Wretchard, esp. # 40, has got this one by the nose ring; let’s not let go, none of us. Meantime, some laughter wouldn’t hurt. We’ll know when some barriers are going down when all Americans can laugh at themselves; check out the Barney Frank Koran (among other versions); cheers – D
http://dexquire.wordpress.com/category/crocodile-words/chapter-1/
Well, dear old Harry Reid has decided that he is against the mosque too. Tells me something or other.
There will be a pull back, all notion of building will come to a halt, and then when they think all opposition has been disbanded and passion quieted, construction will resume.
I bet that’s the plan anyway. No.
Alexis @ 25 said:
“The grand opening of Cordoba House was slated for September 11, 2011.”
The name “Cordoba” was also loaded with significance, i.e. Cordoba was the capital of an Islamic caliphate in Spain that the Moslems lost during the Reconquista.
The people behind the Cordoba mosque were definitely playing games with us.
What confuses me is I don’t see the benefit they would have gained other than the purely symbolic act of poking us in the eye. That mosque would have lasted 6 months tops before someone fire bombed it (didn’t have a hope in hell of being a serious place of worship). Maybe(?) that was the agenda, i.e. make us look like a pack of hypocritical barbarians after the mosque was firebombed? Still doesn’t add up….
The islamists aren’t the only ones to notice that powdery-puffy weakness of the elites.
So have the American people. The mainstream media was still piling praise upon Obama for coming out in favor of the islamist victory monument when the polls came out 70-30 against and Sarah Palin spoke up. And then Barry backpeddled so fast his lickspittle minions in the press didn’t even have time to come up with a new bullshit story about the awesomeness of his new position.
Once upon a time the elite would have stuck with an unpopular choice and told the rubes that the Constitution demanded they do it that way so shut up about it. The press would have demonized the opposition without mercy and any politician who objected would have eventually given up just out of exhaustion.
However as time has passed that has worked less and less well. They’ve been able to hold back the tide of popular resistance for a long long time but victories and plans that once look like sure things look iffy at best and disasters at worst. Amnesty should have been easy. So should have been health care. Gun control? Shhh! Don’t even mention it.
This isn’t a sign of strength. And now with a rapid and immediate about-face re the 9/11 mosque the blood in the water is looking increasingly obvious- and not just to hamas.
Wretchard says: That weakness among our powder-puff elites will not go unnoticed. The antagonists won’t believe for a second that all this abjection is the result of courage.
“Feds: Alaska couple accused of domestic terrorism had 20 names on hit list”
“Prosecutors alleged that Paul Rockwood, also known as ‘Bilal,’ converted to Islam about a decade ago and began studying the teachings of American-born cleric Anwar al-Awlaki, who has professed hatred for the United States and supports acts of terrorism. The couple then moved to King Salmon, where he worked for the National Weather Service.
‘While in Alaska, Rockwood researched and discussed methods of execution often at great length and in significant detail, components for mail bombs were purchased, the targets had been selected and a loose time line was established,’ assistant U.S. Attorneys Steven Skrocki and Bryan Schroder wrote in their sentencing memo.
Prosecutors said he gave the list of targets to his wife in April, and she carried it with her on a trip to Anchorage, where the FBI obtained it.”
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/08/16/feds-alaska-couple-accused-domestic-terrorism-names-hit-lit/?test=latestnews
When they threw the rock concert right after 9/11, only one group played a song that resoundingly, defiantly said “NO.” Please excuse my regional pride, but naturally, they were a Southern band.
@ Salt Lick (50): Thanks for that link to TP&H. I hadn’t seen it before but I agree wholeheartedly that this song played at that time constitutes a resoundingly defiant “NO.” That said, I still think the performance in same concert by the very liberal New Jerseyan, Bruce Springsteen, was equally impressive and poignant. The refrain in “My City of Ruins” is “come on rise up” and I get the feeling he meant it in the most sincere and positive way. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zld2cSIVUO4
Starling #51 — With respect, Springsteen’s song was indeed poignant, but poignant’s not what you need to feel when someone dances in the street after killing 3000 of your neighbors. To me, Springsteen’s song perfectly illustrated the liberal’s inability to make moral judgments and vigorously defend the innocent.
W@40 Not far from where I live a small township said no to a mosque. The local zoning board keep saying no [at least 4 times] until they got the answer, NO.
41. batman : RE the motives of the Left. I agree with whoever said earlier that the Left has teamed up with IslamoFascism to destroy the West, thinking that they will deal with them later. The Social Democrats thought the same thing about the Bolsheviks in 1917, and many died for their delusions.
47. Eggplant : From what I have read, symbolism is more important in the Islamic world than it now is in the West. Bin Laden picked the 9/11 targets for their symbolism, not their crippling effect.
“The islamists aren’t the only ones to notice that powdery-puffy weakness of the elites.
So have the American people.”
Yes. The point I was trying to make in the thread yesterday: now that the Wizard of Oz has been exposed, he and all his leftist flying monkeys are going to dry up very, very quickly. It will be some time before they take their last gasp, and they will keep coming back in less virulent forms over and over, maybe forever, but we are watching them come apart as we speak.
After exhausting all the Western Civ courses at Do It Yourself Scholar I have come to realize what was obvious all along. There is no philosophical or experiential foundation for Progressivism. None. Nada. Zilch.
It’s all bullshit. Strip away the Judeo-Christian under-flooring of Western Civ and you got nothing. Other than the obtuse writings of a handful of 17th and 18th Century guys, one of the most important of whom spent the last 10 years of his life in an insane asylum, and there is nothing there. Why are these dead white guys any better than any other dead white guys?
Nothing to direct human behavior. Nothing to direct social interaction. Nothing with which to build a political system that is any greater a moral imperative than what came before outside the Judeo-Christian tradition.
Tolerance, diversity, equality – whatever. It’s all polemical nonsense without a moral imperative to ground it. They got none.
Based on the vacuity of the modern secular vision there is no reason in the world why every swinging richard in the country should not be looking to join up with Ceasar’s legion for the march on Rome to get some of their own.
eggplant,
“they would have gained other than the purely symbolic act of poking us in the eye. ”
That is huge in their world. PR is the most important weapon in this struggle, and we’re still using muzzle loaders.
#47 Eggplant
“What confuses me is I don’t see the benefit they would have gained other than the purely symbolic act of poking us in the eye.”
Been thinking about that and have a theory. Not a good theory but……..
Jihad is defined in the Quran as religious war in defense of Islam. Modern Jihadists interpret that to include offensive war as well. AFAIK, mainstream Islam still holds that Jihad applies ONLY to protecting Muslim lands. Once that Mosque is built it becomes a bridgehead. Sort of like Omaha Beach. Any action by the USA against that Mosque will result in numerous calls for Jihad, calls that will be answered by mainstream Islam not just the Jihadi’s. So it is a recruiting tool. Sort of the Islamic version of an Apache gunship’s chain gun footage.
To paraphrase my favorite Marx; ‘That’s my theory and I’m sticking to it. Until a better one comes along.’ IIRC, from “A Day at the races”. I sometimes wonder what the Marx Brothers would say about the Obomination.
Something funny, no doubt. Nothing harms a tyrant more then humor.
Outstanding analysis at Powerline of Obambus’ Iftar speech and Obambus in general
1. Obama’s tone was not one calculated to persuade. He both hectored and belittled those who oppose the GZM. If you respectfully beg to differ with Obama, it is hard to like the persona Obama had on display Friday night.
2. Obama supported the GZM in his usual style, in which his position is juxtaposed with a straw man of his choosing. It is an unappealing rhetorical habit that is made even more unappealing when applied to an issue on which people of good faith obviously differ with him.
3. Obama’s statement begs the question posed by the GZM. No one has questioned the right of Muslims to practice their religion the same as anyone else in this country. Rather, those opposed to the GZM have asked the proponents, among other things, to recognize and give way to the feelings of ordinary Americans that a mosque does not belong at Ground Zero.
4. Obama’s remarks alluded to the right of private property involved in the construction of the proposed GZM. We haven’t previously heard much about the right of private property from Obama.
5. Obama’s remarks emphasized the First Amendment rights of Muslims in America. Gone was the living Constitution and the vaunted “empathy” that may impel right (left) thinking judges to depart from a fixed reading of constitutional rights. Whatever empathy Obama expressed for the opponents of the GZM, it was an empathy that had to give way in recognition of the First Amendment right of free exercise. Now if Obama would just take the same approach to the First Amendment right of free speech at issue in Citizens United, for example, he might want to issue an apology to the Supreme Court.
6. It’s good for Muslims to build the GZM in New York, but not for Jews to build apartments in Jerusalem. Go figure.
7. In the remarks prefacing his formal speech, Obama recognized Rep. Andre Carson in the audience, who (along with Rep. Keith Ellison, whom he also called out) is one of the two Muslims in Congress. We are still awaiting the the enterprising journalist who can ferret out the branch of Islam that comports with the tenets of the Democratic Party on the equality of women, abortion, gay rights and all the rest.
8. By Saturday, in the face of the response his remarks engendered, Obama was backing off from his support for the GZM. He availed himself of the option of emphasizing the straw man he had addressed. We were to believe that he was only addressing the issue in the abstract. Both Friday’s statement and Saturday’s backtracking were remarkably unpersuasive.
9. Obama could have played a constructive role in resolving the deeply divisive issues raised by the GZM. Instead he chose to put on display his belief in his superior nature.
10. With great reliability Obama stands athwart the feelings of ordinary Americans. Indeed, he is a much more ardent defender of the faith of Musims than he is of the United States, of its history or of its people. Although Obama framed his GZM remarks as a citizen and President of the United States, he seems to think of himself less as a citizen of the United States than as a citizen of the world and less as president than as philosopher king.
“The real information that pops out the Ground Zero mosque episode is how little grit our cultural elites have.”
The key conditional word you left out, Wretchard, is the word CURRENT.
As in “The real information that pops out the Ground Zero mosque episode is how little grit our CURRENT cultural elites have.”
America is in the process of elite replacement.
The real change will happen when America applies constitutiona amendment to bring elections to Federal judges.
Things like the hubris of the Federal trail judge in the California’s Proposition 8 suit are bringing the day when Federal judges face retension elections that terminate their life time appointments.
Wrechard’s words:
The reason why groveling never works is because there can be no agreement between a man and a slug.
And this is exactly how the Islamists look at O. Like it or not, international relations are a play in power. The EUniks keep playing the so-called negotiating game with despots like the leaders of Iran. They keep using the model that gets them nowhere. They believe in it, but the model is not appropriate with their adversary.
Cordoba House, opening September 11, 2011, near Ground Zero is chocked full of symbolism. It is not a mosque, but rather a base for operations. Their influence will extend for blocks. People like the Mayor, IMHO, must be an appeaser or denser than a box of rocks in this issue.
Putting that mosque near Ground Zero is about insensitive as it gets. However, from a tactical point of view of an Islamist, it is a great idea.
If the leaders don’t lead, then the people must lead, and say a resounding “No.”
@56 PB: I totally agree. That is why we must say YES to our own portions of that great Judeo-Christian tradition while we are simultaneously saying NO to its enemies.
i will not submit = lan estislam
batman
I am trying to make a stronger point than that.
Based on their own ethos the secular Left has no legitimacy to govern, or to lead. Their bullshit is no better than anybody else’s bullshit and that must be constantly thrown back in their face.
With no moral legitimacy to govern the implements of the state are purely a force on force issue.
We must not give an inch of the authority of the Judeo-Christian tradition to the Left. It’s an all or none deal. When they turned in their chits to choose reason over revelation they left empty handed.
We don’t have to play this shell game anymore.
Skip…
You’re inventing history: Jihadis LOVE invasion armies. ( India, Persia, Iraq, Egypt…)
You are correct that once a mosque is built it becomes a spear-head.
Everyone associated with its construction and maintenance is considered to have done his duty for islam.
Likewise, when the Resident did not observe his own birthday with the family he was acting piously in the eyes of the ummah.
Remember, there are 57 states within the ‘land of peace.’
The Resident’s default memories always fall back to Soetoro: what he learned from the wahabbi imam.
No.
OT – slightly
Rage Towards My Tutu: Homey Won’t Say It
The Tale of the Punahou Homey: From Stereotypical Antisocial to President
Per Doug’s polite request, the tale of America’s most dysfunctional parentage.
Back in the day, when Barry was ‘enjoying’ the Christmas holidaze in the Islands, I had occasion to cross his path.
You see, his tutu ( maternal grandmother ) lived one floor up ( the penthouse level ) in my condo. She purchased her unit years earlier because it was within walking distance of Punahou – and her commute to First Hawaiian Bank would be quick indeed.
When Barry would visit on the holidays he was a sight. So tall, handsome and COLORED, in an area of town that was yellow and white. He towered over her. What a study of contrasts: beauty, height, youth — and submission vs not pretty at all, short, old — and ultra-dominant.
I’d step in the elevator, and they’d already be at it: she’d be balling him out over something. Barry would stand in silence. Not a peep.
When I say chewing him out I mean SCREAMING AT HIM! Rant, rant, rant; and yes, she addressed him as Barry.
You are free to Google around on her, she’s been written up by others. She was quite the leftist ground breaker in her day. Every article I’ve read details her Drill Instructor demeanor.
Naturally, seeing his grandmother acting in a PARENTAL manner had my head swimming: where the hell was mommy or daddy?
Who knew that daddy was already dead: Frank Marshall Davis.
Who knew that mom was on the road forever.
BHO is the kind of person you never forget.
The whole vibe of grandmom and grandson is so ODD — I’ve never seen it before nor since.
But that’s when he got pussy whipped: operant conditioning at its ultimate.
Now here’s where it gets REALLY weird: I had a flash that he’d either go to Hollywood or enter politics. SUCH a pretty boy. Who could know that he’d enter politics AS an actor!
Creepy, no?
Per: ‘Maineman’
WRT the Reverend Wright’s exposure: “In response, he gave the unhinged Philly speech in which he called his grandmother “a typical white person” and then used her to underscore how racist WE all are.”
Stanley, if the evidence is sustained, would only sleep with non-white men. Her hyper-radical upbringing – by Barry’s grandmother, of course, is pure insight as to the kind of orientation that he was given in Hawaii.
Further, it is plain upon the photo record, that Barry is the biological son of Frank Marshall Davis.
http://i481.photobucket.com/albums/rr173/palominopinto/Barry.jpg
——-
The teen-age Stanley lived on Mercer Island. By this time Mrs. Durham (future tutu) was the primary wage earner and was dragging her submissive-omega husband from job to job all over the nation. An executive bank position in Seattle for her reduced Mr. Durham to furniture salesman.
While living on Mercer Island, the family attended a hyper-radical church. In fact Mrs. Durham moved the family onto the island just so attendance would be easy and regular. Their services were led by a certified Communist with the ‘cloth’ as cover. (Shades of Liberation Theology!)
Not so surprisingly, Wikipedia does not mention a word about it. That bio would leave the reader to think that the Durhams moved to Mercer Island so as to get her into the new High School. Rubbish. They wanted to be close enough to drive east and attend radical services led by a rabid anti-American. (Shades of the Reverend Wright!)
ANY notion that Barry has ANY comity with traditional American values is as logical as conflating Eichmann with Jewish scholarship!
And as for the tutu ranting: can you say passive-aggressive rebellion?
The Resident has Type AB blood. That much was revealed by the British Press upon his first visit to the Queen.
AB is not so common. If anyone knows what the blood type of Davis or Durham or Obama Sr. is, do please post.
If Obama, Sr. is type O — IIRC — he cannot be the biological father.
That Davis screwed outside his marriage is a matter of his own writing, teenage white girls — no problem.
This, then, would explain why Stanley left Barry with Davis and her parents in the Islands with not a worry in her head.
Skip_this_post @ 58 said:
“Jihad is defined in the Quran as religious war in defense of Islam. Modern Jihadists interpret that to include offensive war as well. AFAIK, mainstream Islam still holds that Jihad applies ONLY to protecting Muslim lands. Once that Mosque is built it becomes a bridgehead. Sort of like Omaha Beach. Any action by the USA against that Mosque will result in numerous calls for Jihad, calls that will be answered by mainstream Islam not just the Jihadi’s.”
Skip_this_post’s response provides a logical explanation.
It’s interesting to read the Wikipedia article concerning the “Reconquista”. The Reconquista was a bitter war that lasted for centuries but ended with the total defeat of the Moslems in the Iberian peninsula. After the Iberian Christians defeated the last of the Moors, the Christians showed little clemency towards the survivors. The Moslem survivors were told to either flee Iberia, convert to Christianity or be killed. Unfortunately the same set of options were given to the Sephardi Jews (supposedly the Sephardi Jews sided with the Moors). Many Moslems and Jews converted to Christianity in name only and continued to secretly practice their old religions. This activity triggered the Spanish Inquisition and all of the associated horrors. Apparently the prime motivation of the Spanish Inquisition was to weed out the last traces of Islam in the Iberian peninsula.
Religious wars can be very nasty and are arguably the most brutal form of human aggression. One is only left to imagine what religious warfare with nuclear weapons is going to be like.
What??
Ground Zero muslims will throw obammy under the bus??!!
As far as the Reconquista goes, in my years in Spain I saw that the year 1492 (which resonates loudly with the US residents) meant the year of the Reconquista, with statues to Catholic King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella…
The ‘Columbus sailed the ocean blue in 1492′ was most certainly secondary, a very distant second…
agree, whats up with the mosque? makes no sense and especially the timing of the opening. Plus, They just helped blow up Obummer and the dims in nov. All this could have easily waited until after Nov.
Our media plays checkers, short term.
International deep thinkers play 3D chess over generations. Too bad many of our universities have gone to the dark side so they cannot be used to strategically help develop counters to Mecca or Tehran. Has the pentagon been penetrated? the UN is gone, not that it was much of a loss.
This entire cordoba mosque strategy has been so mismanaged it could easily fit under the moslem concept of TAQIYYA. Maybe cordoba is a pawn and will make the move to the actual goal that much easier.
Either way, totally agree it will be a beach head and an embassy for the ummah. Wonder how the attack on Staten island is proceeding? Memphis? others. we need to wake up fast.
Naming the planned mosque cordoba was as strange as naming the BP oil field Macondo after the fictional town described in Gabriel García Márquez’s novel One Hundred Years of Solitude.
Either name temped the fates to gather the storm clouds.
When will our Constitutionally Concerned POTUS opine on the back of the hand NYC officials are delivering to St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church which wants to rebuild? The church was destroyed when Tower II fell on it.
NYC officials have blocked the rebuilding of this Orthodox Christian Church for more than 8 years. Does the Freedom of Religion part not apply to Christians?
It’s too bad there are no longer any journalists around with the know-how and the cookies to dig into this stuff. It would be nice to know if any envelopes have grown a little fatter with oil stained cash over the last few years.
Politico reports that the Democrats in NY are starting to swing away from the President on the mosque issue.
Is it a miracle or is November just getting closer?
In all of these wimp political statements: no mention of the celebratory nature of the victory mosque, no mention of its obvious alien state sponsorship, no mention of its operating as a pilgrimage site for jihadis.
Dumb as a box of rocks, they are!
BTW, there can never be a Constitutional Right to overturn the Constitution: which is what expanding islam must necessarily abet.
Watch the rats leave the ship before their own little tails get doused.
The Cordoba Mosque is a perfect issue for Democrat petard hoisting because it creates a question that can ultimately be answered only Yes or No. Mr. Obama already proved that dancing away from Yes or No is like yelling I’m a political whore who can’t be counted on for anything. Even the professional leftie talking heads have to look away from the camera to try to defend this gaffe.
It’s NOT a political gaffe if it’s the REAL YOU.
It only looks like a gaffe because such attitudes are wildly away from patriotism, resolution, and spine.
Portside political types (i.e., listing away from starboard) have for generations reverted to a kind of “Chinese Water Torture” approach to their targets when a straightfoward frontal assault has been thwarted. That is, they keep up a continuous sort of low-level tapping. It’s like being stoned to death with cheese puffs.
The history of the spread of Islam is similar in that the tenets of the holy literature give the faithful dispensation to lie, dissemble, and mis-represent their intentions and activities to the infidel.
Please don’t dismiss this as mere slander from some right-wing anti-Muslim jerk. Look up the Arabic terms “Taqqiya and Hudna.”
They’re not lawyers with an office in Camden, New Jersey.
Blert said…
“BTW, there can never be a Constitutional Right to overturn the Constitution: which is what expanding islam must necessarily abet.”
Steve Emerson:
80 % of US mosques are Wahhabi.
He estimates 60 % of young Muslim men in America support suicide bombing.
100% of Wahhabi mosques are supported by the King of Saudi Arabia, personally, through various guises and cut-outs.
Never forget that all of the mineral wealth of the land belongs to him because he is King. He is the State.
He then kicks out patronage in royal style.
The Wahhabist imams are particularly favored. Their religious clout makes them a state within a state — to include their own police force. In this way, they resemble the PLA, the SS and the mullah’s Islamic Republican Guard Corps. All of these organs operate/d above/outside the despotic system. Of course, they all profess/ed fealty to the supreme leadership. In all cases, their crew was/is held up to the nation as exemplars.
The various Kings of Saudi Arabia have bragged that they have spent at least $100,000,000,000 for ‘religious’ purposes. The vast bulk of that outlay has been for mosque construction and sustenance.
THAT is what jihad is for the King.
His game plane is to corrupt our politics: Bush, Hillary, Obama, Clinton, Carter, Bush Sr. are all conflicted with regard to the Saudi teat.
It strains credulity to believe that the King didn’t game our 2008 election to put a muslim in the oval office. How else to explain the bow?
KSA is on the facts our worst enemy and has penetrated our leadership to a degree far beyond Stalin’s fantasies.
It is a strategic error of the first magnitude for us to provide humanitarian aid to muslim lands without a quid pro quo.
Yet EVERY president keeps doing it. Aiding a muslim in such a way is regarded throughout the ummah as “allah WILLS it.” It is completely against their world view that such aid was the volition of the West.
Truly: allah wills everything. In which case let the ummah see what allah wills for them during the floods, tsunamis and other privations. Ultimately, helping them is entirely counter productive.
The other catastrophic error is providing subsidized food and agricultural technology. NO gratitude is EVER possible from the ummah: allah willed it!
And when allah wills them to fly into your Capitol — past support must all be ascribed to allah.
Get used to it.
W @74: While it is good to see some Democrats coming out with statements such as, “it would be better if they had demonstrated more sensitivity,” and “If the group seeking to build the mosque is sincere in its efforts to bring people together, I would urge them to seek an alternative location which is less divisive,” all of these are weak cheese.
Pleading with your enemies to demonstrate more sensitivity and challenging them to be sincere in their efforts to bring people together is better than total capitulation, but is far too obsequious for my taste.
I would prefer for them to say, “The building of this mosque at this site is an affront to America and Americans. It is an uncalled for attempt to set up a beachhead near the site of the worst atrocity perpetrated on US soil. It must be stopped. We must use every means necessary, from zoning regulations to building codes, to see that this mosque, if it is to be built, is constructed far from the ground zero location.”
They need not repeat all the pieties about religious freedom; those have been covered amply and to reiterate them makes their “NO” sound weak and apologetic. Let’s see someone holding a significant office say, simply, “This project is wrong and should not be built. And I will do everything in my power to assure that if it is to be built, it will be built elsewhere.” Period!!!
“Answer’s not “no”, it’s HELL NO!”
Hell to the NO!
///
“He estimates 60 % of young Muslim men in America support suicide bombing.”
Perfect. And I support 100% of them being able to successfully suicide, too. And if they choose to do a “suicide by cop” or by armed citizenry, that would be fine, too.
M’Ore AlMoh ….
Hello Moh. This is Al.
Al whO?
…-
“Threat over Ground Zero mosque
OTTAWA – She spoke out against the Ground Zero mosque, now a Canadian Muslim woman says she is being threatened.
Raheel Raza, a founding member of the Muslim Canadian Congress, calls the idea of a mosque within 300 metres of Ground Zero “a deliberate provocation.”
Last week Raza joined Maureen Basnicki a Canadian widow of 9-11 in attending a meeting about the mosque in New York City.
“They were very arrogant. They didn’t answer questions,” Raza told QMI Agency.
The meeting was hosted by Daisy Khan, the wife of the Imam promoting the mosque and Sharif El Gamal, the man whose property firm owns the land the mosque is to be built on.
Raza says she asked questions about who was financing the building, estimated to cost $100 million, and whether any of the money would come from countries other than the United States. There has been much speculation that the mosque is being funded through Saudi Arabian sources but at the Manhattan meeting Raza said there were no answers.
On Monday, back in Toronto, Raza says she received a call on her cellphone from a man who identified as Sharif El Gamal. “His tone was intimidating,” said Raza. “He accused me of ‘jumping into’ the meeting he called and then said ‘May Allah protect you.’ I was shocked and hung up.”
Raza says she took the phone call as a clear threat against her.
“Why would I need Allah’s protection?” asked Raza.
Contacted at his New York office El Gamal initially didn’t have much to say. “I’m confused by your phone call,” he said before hanging up.
Contacted a second time El Gamal said “There was no phone call made by anybody” before again hanging up the phone to abruptly end the call.
Raza insists there was a call, “I saved the number on my cell.” The number on Raza’s cellphone matches that of El Gamal’s Soho Properties offices in New York.”
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2010/08/17/15054001.html
OT
The other thing that stands out when you read Stanley’s snap bio is that her AID job was a classic non-official cover for CIA agents in the field.
Further, that her connections in Indonesia don’t fit the needs of AID. They sure fit the needs of the CIA. Like why an AID official of her rank is floating around the Mobil Oil Corporation connection to the Indonesian elites? And this while she maintains a Commie-philic persona?
And then there’s Barry’s amazing hook-ups with muslim elites, by way of their kids. He was able to even get into Pakistan when it was on the outs with the State Department! Of course, during his visit he’s hanging with a son of a nationally ranked Pakistani politician who for a time ran the care-taker government during an election cycle. (IIRC)
Of course, it’s just a coincidence that Stanley’s last Station appears to be Islamabad.
IF she were NOC then it would be VERY possible for the Agency to bend the rules and get her only son a free ride.
IF Barry needed a synthetic ‘legend’ to catch some breaks — the CIA could generate that with ease.
If he did get CIA assistance, his mother would be most unlikely to ever divulge it.
Based upon Barry’s own college daze, it is quite apparent that the golden hand of selection reached down from on high early and often. It seems that at one time or another just about everyone kicked him some bread and opened the door.
In every way, Barry was like the ultimate Kaos agent: Mr. Likeable. He morphs, politically and emotionally like the Salt Sucker of classic Star Trek legacy.
( Salt Sucker = Salary Bleeder = Ultra-high maintenance babe or worse: any politician of whom everyone projects their own needs and desires.)
Once Dr. McCoy kills the dream the ugly truth is left to stink up the room.
Its epitaph reads: Suckers !
Skip_this_post, #58: Jihad is defined in the Quran as religious war in defense of Islam. Modern Jihadists interpret that to include offensive war as well. AFAIK, mainstream Islam still holds that Jihad applies ONLY to protecting Muslim lands. Once that Mosque is built it becomes a bridgehead. Sort of like Omaha Beach. Any action by the USA against that Mosque will result in numerous calls for Jihad, calls that will be answered by mainstream Islam not just the Jihadi’s.
It will be very, very interesting to hear what Osama bin Laden and/or Ayman al-Zawahiri (or whatever vocal doppelgängers are speaking in their names these days – or, come to think of it, maybe they will even have the traitor Adam Gadahn do the honors) have to say about the Ground Zero mosque the next time one of their recordings turn up in the Western media.
I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised to hear OBL or whoever issue a fatwa to the effect that even though the mosque hasn’t been built yet, that bridgehead already exists. After all the existing building at the site has already been used as a makeshift mosque, or so its proprietors claim. And undoubtedly no one here at BC would be surprised to hear al Qaeda’s propagandists use this episode to justify their next attack on US soil.
Interesting reading here at first glance and skim. But I’m too tired now to read it and the many embedded links and have to clean up the kitchen now after supper. Then get the girls ready for bed. Got to get them back on a school schedule.
So – for those interested. There appears to be big plans for this “Community Center” that the Kingdom and others are going to bankroll and use.
There is also a promised “part 2″ to this post.
Here is a snippet:
Is the author seeing realistic evil plots or shadow figures?
I don’t know for sure, but I do know that Islam has always covered up, lied and misrepresented themselves to get into the camps of those it conquered or fought.
Why would they not do so now?
Papa Ray
I sometimes wonder what the Marx Brothers would say about the Obomination.
Groucho was eerily foresighted. Wonder no more, skip!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrB-qFHqQwY
The last man nearly ruined this place
He didn`t know what to do with it
If you think this country`s bad off now,
Just wait `til I get through with it
The country`s taxes must be fixed
And I know what to do with it
If you think you`re paying too much now
Just wait till I get throught with it
(Couldn’t you swear that Walt just now wrote that?)
84. blert : Interesting stuff. Got any links?
I think the Birthers are wasting their time but I do think BHO is hiding something on his Hawaiian birth certificate, even if it is only the spelling of his name.
I would be real interested in what name on what passport he used to go to Pakistan (!) and why. I was also interested in what Clinton did for a month in the Soviet Union in the days when everyone had a minder.
But our Speak Truth to Power MSM is not interested.
“Our citizens may be deceived for awhile, and have been deceived; but as long as the presses can be protected, we may trust to them for light.” –Thomas Jefferson to Archibald Stuart. 1799.
88…
Obviously he was traveling on an Indonesian passport — as a muslim. His last name would certainly have been Soetoro.
Such a status is almost certainly to have launched him into Occidental College. (What an ironical name for an Orientalist family!)
His history is such that each institution, in turn, feels obliged to bury the trail because they figure the boy should not be adversely considered or promoted based upon his apparent parents. After all, the legend would show that his biological father died tragically. It would also show him having to endure a ‘tough’ childhood — an American boy alone and afar.
And then his beauty, grace and multi-lingual ability: we must make him a prince!
As for links, I’m somewhat pushed for time, so they’ll have to wait.
Anyhow Google is your tool.
Just make sure that you’re not their tool.
54. jWarrior.
And the Iranian communists of the Tudeh Party thought the same thing about the smelly, hairy, backward mullahs around Khomeini in 1978. And so did all the smug, leftoid librals in the West. The reactionary Mullahs would do the dirty work of toppling the Shah, and then be shoved aside by the progressive Communists. Surprise! It didn’t work out that way and the Tudeh were slaughtered as quickly as the Shah’s people.
Eggplant:
What confuses me is I don’t see the benefit they would have gained other than the purely symbolic act of poking us in the eye. That mosque would have lasted 6 months tops before someone fire bombed it (didn’t have a hope in hell of being a serious place of worship). Maybe(?) that was the agenda, i.e. make us look like a pack of hypocritical barbarians after the mosque was firebombed? Still doesn’t add up….
I think it adds up, so long as the cosmological constant is set for Obamaworld.
In Obamaworld, Cordoba House makes sense not as Muslim piety but as an act of war.
In Obamaworld, any attack upon Cordoba House would be called terrorism and President Obama would use such an attack as a pretext to unleash a reign of terror against any and all internal dissent.
In Obamaworld, ethics complaints against Charles Rangel and Maxine Waters make perfect sense as a means to get rid of two black rivals in Congress.
In Obamaworld, skeletons mysteriously come out of the closet for all of Barack Obama’s rivals for the Illinois Senate seat in 2004.
In Obamaworld, the New Black Panthers get away with voter intimidation.
In Obamaworld, any law broken by a political enemy is strongly punished, while lawbreaking by political allies is ignored.
Cordoba House makes sense as a strategic assault on the United States if one considers that our president is Barack Hussein Obama. The Saudi Kingdom gives high priority to subjugating the United States, particularly in comparison to helping fellow Muslims in distress. America must consider the Saudi monarchy as its enemy, not (as our president seems to think) its master.
In a world where Saudis would think the Justice Department reports to CAIR, Cordoba House would make sense as a symbol of Islamic conquest and as a pretext to turn our government against us.
Obama’s flacks deny that obama was born in Kenya but do acknowledge that he had a dual citizenship up until 1982
from obama’s own site factcheck.org(this is cached as the original was taken down) by way of fightthesmears on his dual citizenship at birth
“When Barack Obama Jr. was born on Aug. 4,1961, in Honolulu, Kenya was
a British colony, still part of the United Kingdom’s dwindling empire.
As a Kenyan native, Barack Obama Sr. was a British subject whose
citizenship status was governed by The British Nationality Act of 1948.
That same act governed the status of Obama Sr.‘s children.
Now Gates has pulled the rip-cord.
The urge to purge continues.
NO!! The Republicans are the Party of “NO”. Has a nice ring to it. Throw it back in their faces.
Assuming one agrees with the Constitution on freedom of religion, one issue is deliberately avoided, namely: how do you define religion, really? There should be some clarification on this issue, not blind acceptance that Islam actually is a religion.
Could Islam be 20 percent religion and 80 percent subversive political movement?
Maybe Islam is 40 percent religion, 30 percent subversive and 30 percent outright violent?
There’s a lot of data to show that what makes up Islam includes a lot of highly subversive, destructive and war-like elements. It comprises a subtle, slow-moving, and deliberate strategy of conquest. In spirit, it should not qualify as religion and should therefore not be protected by the Constitution.
No lawmaker would approach it this way, so that sooner or later this situation will morph into religious world war, no quarter given.
94. Marta:
The Party of KNOW!
blert @ 80: I wrote a post on another website in October 2001 titled, “Should we do Saudi Arabia First?” My primary assumption was that victory would require the conquest, occupation, and reconstruction of Arabia from the Jordan to the Gulf and from Aleppo to Aden, as well as the conquest and dissolution of Pakistan. It seemed to me then, as it seems to me now, that the House of Saud is the center of gravity of our enemies, and that the chances for victory were highest when war-fever was at its peak.
I thought it a mistake to waste the first thrust on Saddam, who could have been bought at a reasonable price and facilitated staging areas for the conquest of both KSA and Syria.
In the event, we all know what happened. KSA is stronger than ever, their mosque-centered jihad grows ever more powerful, and we are at our weakest point since 1940.
jWarrior @ 88: “I would be real interested in what name on what passport he used to go to Pakistan (!) and why. I was also interested in what Clinton did for a month in the Soviet Union in the days when everyone had a minder”
With regard to #1: US passport holders have never been restricted or barred from travel to Pakistan, and the necessary visae have always been available at Paki points of entry, from 1947-2010. I post this only to debunk the constant birther claim that, in 1981, US passport holders were barred from travel to Pakistan, this is false, based on personal knowledge. Of course, this does not mean Soetero used a US passport, only that he could have.
With regard to #2: The Clinton sojurn behind the iron curtain (AFTER August 1968, don’t forget – AND he went to the scene of the crime in Prague) is one of the great unexplored stories of our time. I was very aware of international events at the time, wanting to remain at college in the USA rather than Khe Sanh University. It was IMPOSSIBLE to visit the USSR (and certainly Czechoslovakia under occupation) without sponsorship and control by the State, acting through KGB-controlled sham organizations. Slick’s explanation, IIRC, is that he was “interested in other systems”. At a minimum, he was given the Potemkin village tour, but perhaps there was much, much more.
OK, got the girls at the neighbors and am going back out on the streets of despair and turmoil, armed with what little propaganda I have gathered and by force of will to do something to make my grand kids future – have at least a chance.
It’s hell when your old and have one foot sliding into the grave and you know that your grand kids will still need you even if you live another ten years, which I don’t think I will, but pray I do.
Anyway wanted to leave another link. This is mainly for those of you who don’t really know or understand what “Shariah” actually entails or means. Please read it and the embedded links and relate this post to others via email or word of mouth.
There are other writings on the web concerning Shariah that are available. The UK is fast falling into the pit of Islam as well as many other nations in what now is the EU. Look to them for what America will be in just a few years if this invasion and assault is not stopped and firmly defeated.
If the progressives, the elites are left to not only acquiesce to but assist Islam in its takeover of America, we won’t have to worry about the invasion from the south nor the communist takeover of America. Unless of course we as Americans wake up and actively oppose this threat.
Question is: Do enough Americans understand the threat?
The answer right now, I think, is NO.
Take Care, Take Charge, Get on the line.
Papa Ray
1. blert
More generally, stop ANY further construction of alien funded mosques, and that would be all of them.
…….
Its also always a good idea to find ways to defund the wahabis.
Looks like Pelosi’s been caught on audio calling for opponents of the Cordoba House to have their finances investigated. Funny, when it was suggested that somebody look into where the mosque’s $100 million in funding came from the idea was shot down by Bloomberg for being “un-American” to even consider such a thing.
This is a willingness to throw free speech under the bus, to intimidate and to chill the opposition. It’s amazing how the left finally discovers freedom of religion and property rights, and this is how they go about practicing them. It’s a kind of jujitsu the left does, and Muslim radicals with them, to use our institutions and our principles against themselves, like when they go to trial and use the discovery process to learn how to thwart law enforcement. Or using freedom of religion to advance its opposite, shari’a. Or saying “We believe in a Living Constitution”, meaning precisely one that is dead, one that needs to have the original plain meanings re-construed in new ways to have meaning.
I got in a heated discussion with a good friend who’s quite the devotee of reason and philosophic rationalism over this mosque thing, him taking the position that rationality supported building the mosque, and me taking the call that the fact this could even be considered at Ground Zero highlights a spiritual poverty, a decadence. So there I am stuck in the end arguing what eventually boils down to a epistemic disagreement, reason vs. the spirit, and who’s got the weak hand in that microscope? It’s frustrating, because I was inside the heart of this very “jujitsu”, the use of reason that undermines its own foundation. Bizzaro, Funkytown worlds, with reason behind shari’a!
A friend’s thoughts on the birth certificate:
It’s Hawaiian, alright, but we’ll never see the original. If you were born to a Christian mother and Jewish father, then where it says “Religion”, it might say Christian. Might say Jewish. Or any combo of Christian, Jewish, Buddhist, Hindu, whatever. But if your father was Muslim, it’s going to say Muslim. That’s why you will never see Barack Obama’s birth certificate, that’s why he can’t put this one to rest.
#98 gokart-mozart – Actually, I disagree. KSA is worthless except for the oil. IMHO what should have been done is – First; summarily execute all the members of Saudi royalty currently resident in the USA. Second; confiscate all assets held in the USA by any Arab nation or individual, particularly those held by Saudis. Third; destroy the King of Mordor’s palace and everything within a block or two radius of it, without warning. Fourth; invade and occupy the oilfields of KSA and those of all other Arab nations on the Gulf with the exception of Iraq – including Abu Dhabi etc. Fifth; destroy anything representing technology beyond the 7th century that they apparently want to live in. Let them.
Arabs did nothing to earn their incredible wealth. They shouldn’t be allowed to keep it.
“Hearts and minds”, applied to a religion that is basically homicidal mania, is worthless. The only thing to do with a rabid dog is kill it.
Rolland @ 95. Agree completely. Islam is an excuse to maim, murder, steal, plunder and rape masquerading as a religion. The tenets of Islam contradict our rights in the Constitution and threaten the sovereignty of the United States.
Those tenets of Sharia law and the Koran that conflict with our Constitutional rights should not be allowed to be practiced on American soil. And those mosques that expose the satanic verses of the Koran, as the Cordoba Mosque will, should not be granted the protection of the First Amendment. Granting equal protection rights of the freedom of worship to a sect that exposes subversive, criminal and inhuman acts is just insane. As others have pointed out before, the Constitution is not a suicide pact. Every other religious entity that tries to impose it’s unconstitutional and/or criminal practices is slapped down. Mormons cannot have multiple wives. Human sacrifices are not allowed. Mind altering drugs are not allowed to used as an excuse for religious ritual.
So why is Islam granted special treatment?
Of course the answer to that question is obvious. The destructive inhumane impulses of Islam converge with the Left’s desires to destroy and harm America.
So if I started a religion that promoted the suicide bombing of any and all Democratic Party meetings as well as robbery, anti-Semitism, oppression of women, rape, child molestation and genocide I would be given First Amendment rights, correct?
Really?
Why do we put up with this nonsense?
Vote ALL the bums out and start with a clean slate. Make the ones that we send to DC keenly aware that if they fail to listen they will be recycled and we will find a new bum. Repeat as needed.
102. Cowboy, My money is on your theory.
Cowboy @102
There are a number of entries that could have easily made their way onto his birth certificate:
Religion could read Communist, atheist, muslim…
Race could read Negro, Caucasian, Mulatto…
Father could read Obama, Davis, Bastard, Unknown…
——–
Certainly, by the time Barry was in Indonesia he was officially logged as a muslim. Once that was done there was no way -ever- to reverse it. One can take note of those trying to do so today, completely without success. In fact, if you are famous and significant Jakarta will change your religion to muslim when you are in the grave. Thusly, muslims can be claimed to be making major cultural contributions to Indonesia.
After reaching twenty-one there is scant evidence that Barry ever cashed in his muslim passport from Indonesia until years passed. It provided the rationale for one college related financial aid after another — starting with even getting in.
At some point, probably inconveniently after Harvard, Barry realizes that it’s time to get local and applies for an American passport. I rather suspect that he never admitted on said application that he’d ever held a foreign passport. Perhaps with a little help from mother’s employer, the passport application flew through.
That a child of his circumstances would need to affirm his citizenship would not strike the State Department as in anyway unusual.
However, should anyone chain together all of the sworn statements made by Barry from college admissions through to his own passport the truth would out: he’s a serial lier upon serious signed documents.
We’re talking felony upon felony. Enough to bar him from a run for office in every state I’m aware of. ( Talk to quick-dip Eddie on that one. )
——
The more one considers the likelihood that Stanley was AID-CIA then the more one speculates on the life-habits that a trained agent of deception would imbue upon her son — without conscious effort.
Being all around likable without saying much directly would be the perfect mask for any agent.
——-
Averageness equals beauty. That’s why all of the Miss Americas have so much in common. The distance between their pupils is remarkably consistent. Their variation in height, weight — just about everything is but slight. Curiously, they consistently represent the median female of their age cohort. So instead of saying you’re beautiful it should be, “You are staggeringly average; and I love it!”
Likewise, Barry is beautiful, cause he is physically average for his age cohort. It is effortlessly easy to find Mulattos heavier, lighter, taller, shorter…
Barry is right in the middle for just about every human statistic for Mulattos his age. It struck me all of those years ago: this boy is ready for Hollywood. He could stand toe to toe with Denzel and Sidney and go for Oscar. The camera loves him.
He’s Hollywood’s image of hero. No wonder he was a smash for David Geffen.
The problem is what’s between the ears: he’s a Gonnabee through and through. He does have some Dilly in him, but mostly in his off hours. Like any Gonnabee, actual work performance falls staggeringly below expectations. He’s here to reign not be an executive. He has nostrums not ideas. He is absolutely NOT a creative thinker — and needs to hide that little deficiency even from himself.
What little scheme that does come together in his imagination is imbued with magical properties — just because it came from between his ears.
Like any despot, any rejection of his magic act is viewed as villainy against his persona. He’s Super Barry. And so, he takes the rubes to the linguistic wood-shed. A couple of slaps with his gibe, some finger pointing, blame shifting and then it’s back to the links, teleprompter in tow. (“If only you knew the power of the voice!”)
Some may call Barry shifty perhaps flighty. I say he shifts his positions and then flies away. If you want to shut him up, take away his JP-8 budget! Not only is it impossible to nail him down — you can’t even keep him in Washington. He is a hazard to commutes at any moment and at any time. He moves like a man running from jihad. And we all know that’s impossible. Jihad is everywhere you don’t want it to be.
Blert–would you kindly provide some background on what you think you know about O’s mother? Thanks.
Isn’t it obvious what Obama is doing here? He is throwing the House and Senate Dems under the bus. He wants them to lose and lose badly come November. The “Bush did it!” meme is wearing a little thin. So Obama wants to spend the next two years running against a do nothing Republican congress.
He has already accomplished health care. With just a little luck he can get Cap and Tax and immigration reform done in a lame-duck session. And he can spend the next two years blaming someone else for his failures. It just doesn’t get any better than that from his perspective.
kaba…
I’d say your horseshoe is ringing the target.
Rahm Emanuel is the most likely deep thinker and true author of this drama.
Notice how many are parachuting with time enough to avoid the stink of the dead-duck session.
kaba @ 108 said:
“Isn’t it obvious what Obama is doing here? He is throwing the House and Senate Dems under the bus. He wants them to lose and lose badly come November. The “Bush did it!” meme is wearing a little thin. So Obama wants to spend the next two years running against a do nothing Republican congress.”
I don’t think Obama is a deep thinker. I do believe that Obama is lazy because he is used to having everything handed to him on a silver platter. I suspect that Obama is a moonbat (nonthinking leftist), who responds emotively to complicated political problems.
The Democrat controlled Congress is Obama’s political power base. No rational President would deliberately sabotage his own political power base. However a moonbat President would do something that stupid if the random motivation popped into his head.
Moonbats (by definition) are not susceptible to deep political analysis. Moonbat “strategy” tends to be a random walk based upon immediate emotional gratification.
gokart-mozart @ 97 said:
“I thought it a mistake to waste the first thrust on Saddam, who could have been bought at a reasonable price and facilitated staging areas for the conquest of both KSA and Syria.”
That is precisely what Osama bin Laden wanted us to do when he planned 9/11, i.e. attack the guardian nation of Mecca and Medina. George. W. Bush showed considerable wisdom when he immediately withdrew remaining US forces from KSA after 9/11. He was telegraphing to al Qaeda that he was not going to swallow their bait or follow their agenda. Taking down the Taliban and chasing al Qaeda from Afghanistan was the correct opening gambit but it was insufficient given the gravity of 9/11. The terrorists behind 9/11 were Egyptians and Saudis (the Egyptians provided the brain power and the Saudis provided the money and muscle). Attacking KSA was not an option due to its relationship with Mecca and the Egyptian government was effectively an American client (the Egyptian government is nominally secular but Islamic extremism is a major problem within Egypt). The options left were Iran, Iraq and Syria. Iraq was the weakest of the three and provided the staging point for attacking Iran. Given time, Israel would deal with Syria. Taking down Iraq was the logical decision. Where the American response became muddled was during our occupation of Iraq. The failure to find WMDs in Iraq ruined the public explanation for attacking Iraq and all but eliminated the justification for immediately attacking Iran. The difficulty in initially pacifying Iraq coupled with the extreme Leftist reaction within the United States against the war prevented George W. Bush from finishing the job by effecting regime-change in Iran.
We’re going to pay for that failure after Iran achieves nuclear weapons capability or when Israel destroys Iran’s nuclear capability and subsequently triggers an economic melt-down.
Eggplant…
I have to challenge that.
First off, a random walk means that the drunk is staggering left and right.
Every step is 50:50.
With a Moonbat the critter is high and each step is either left or left-left. The result is an inverse fibonacci logic spiral that radiates away what little insight remains until the subject flat-lines at basal metabolism.
Only timely medical intervention might avert complete catatonia.
To my knowledge it takes altered states for a Moonbat to be gratified. Hence the national basal demand for ‘entertainment’ drugs. Only after being thus medicated can a Moonbat propound on truth, economics and politics.
Cannabis creates a better pipe dream.
Eggplant…
Don’t forget the Yemenis.
15 out of the 19 were ethnic Yemenis traveling under Saudi documents.
If you are a Yemeni national you can walk into Riyadh and get travel documents by snapping your fingers. The founder of the Kingdom made a pact with those Yemenis who backed his play in the 1920′s that they and their heirs could always avail of themselves his patronage in this manner.
It is simply NOT true that the hijackers thought of themselves as Saudis.
Beyond that, the Black Guard — in the beginning — was absolutely pure Yemeni. It is still overwhelmingly so. That the kafir still speak of Saudis being the muscle on 911 fills Yemenis with laughter.
It’s nine years from the attack, and the kafir can’t figure out who did what to whom. Even now, the FBI is finding yet additional players ‘in-the-know’ WRT the 911 plot.
OBL is a step-Saudi : his father was pure Yemeni.
——-
Never leave out Yemen from your calculus.
Thank you.
Eggplant,
There will be no argument from me about Obama’s mental abilities. However that doesn’t mean he can’t read a script that someone has provided him or play a game that someone else has planned.
Despite Obama’s protestations to the contrary I do believe that he desperately wants to be reelected in 2012.
I also believe that he really, really wants Cap and Tax and immigration reform.
There are three possible scenarios for the coming election as I see it.
The Democrats maintain strong majorities in both houses. In this case Obama can likely get those two items passed in time.
But no sane person believes that likely.
Secondly; the Democrats have a narrow loss but maintain control of one or both houses. In this case the remaining Democrats from purple states or closely contested districts won’t touch either initiative with a ten foot pole. Cap and Tax and immigration reform are both dead issues. (Remember that it took fifteen months to get health care passed with huge majorities in both houses.)
The last possibility are dramatic pickups and control of both houses by the Republicans. The Democrats will then adopt a “nothing to lose” strategy in a lame duck session and go for Cap and Tax, immigration reform, and who knows what other idiotic schemes.
Precisely because Obama is a moonbat he wants that agenda passed. I don’t believe he really cares about who gets hurt in the process. The only way those things will happen under current circumstances is if the Democrats lose badly and go for broke in a lame duck.
Losing both houses will also help Obama avoid some responsibility for the economic train wreck that is coming our way. He has spent the last two years with his “Bush did it.” chant. He could then spend the next two years with his “The Republican congress is doing it.” chant.
Kaba,
IMHO, the Republicans are likely to win back the House but will probably fail narrowly in taking the Senate (I’m really hoping that Barbara Boxer gets voted out). After winning back the House, the Republicans will defund Obamacare and whatever else Obama succeeds in getting passed by the lame duck Congress. In the meantime, the Republicans will fillibuster anything objectionable proposed by the liberals in the Senate. Obama will be neutered politically until 2012. Naturally he will whine and cry about the Republicans being obstructionist (he’s been doing that already when not blaming Bush).
That strategy will not work.
Why? Because as President, Obama is “captain of the ship”. When a ship runs aground, the captain gets blamed even if it was the harbor pilot’s fault. Being blamed is part of a ship captain’s job and also part of the President’s job. The economy is in a serious mess and it’s going to get much worse in the next two years. Obama will be blamed because he is President.
Eggplant…
It is NOT TRUE that we didn’t find WMDs in Iraq.
First off, based on his prior use, Chemical Weapons were the primary WMD concern. Read the diaries of our troops. Everyone was wearing NBC gear. But it was chemical munitions that were on everyone’s mind.
Further, electronic intercepts ( classified when and how ) revealed in real time Saddam ordering his missile troops to launch chemical missiles towards us. Our airbases were obvious primary targets.
What happened was gross insubordination by even his generals. We let them know that ANY such release would be met by PROMPT nuclear attack. Implied was B-2 Spirits orbiting overhead ready to counter strike seconds after the missiles left the ground. ( During the Cold War we developed anti-aircraft nuclear tipped missiles for the B-52. Use your imagination.)
Whereas Gulf War I featured a lot of missile launches, the next war didn’t.
——–
Beyond all of the stuff that the Government and the Military would never want to present as public evidence, WMDs started showing up in IED rigs.
Binary system nerve gas is the state of the art. Once discovered in the field, the press releases termed these shells as out of date technology and the shells as being practically harmless. Rubbish.
We lucked out in that Binary Artillery Shells do not work well with high explosive rounds. ( The HE dilutes the agents massively and screws up everything. )
The reason that the mix-up ever occurred is because the French HATE chemical weapons with a passion. Yet the French were Saddam’s artillery advisors during the Iraq-Iran War.
In all other armies chemical shells are made distinctive. Some nations don’t even allow them to fit standard artillery. In either case, only specialty troops are allowed to touch them. And all armies are aware that chemical barrages are ruined by high explosive barrages. ( The heat burns and disperses the chemicals –which cost a fortune I have to tell you. )
To fool the French yet gain the benefits, Saddam trusted to discipline and procedure and made his chemical shells essentially identical to high explosive rounds. There are any number of Iranian and other accounts of Iraqi chemical barrages during their conflict.
——–
When the first chemical shells were discovered in failed IED attempts the news got out. Swiftly the DoD realized that this story MUST be dropped immediately. DoD intel indicated that Saddam had mass produced these shells and it must be assumed that many were still in the hands of the enemy. We didn’t want them to search their inventories and find them. IF a meaningful amount of these warheads were so discovered they’d be an IED sensation.
So Bush & Co had to sit there and bite their collective lip knowing all but completely unable to talk. Any political gains could only come at the expense of our troops in the field. What a bind!
For official purposes that need is still there. Much time has passed. A lot of the chemical weapons have been found and destroyed — all in secret.
The fact that the binary chemistry uses molecules that can only survive in special conditions really impossible to produce in the kitchen has proved a boon.
Grabbing all of the talent and labware suitable for exploiting these chemical agents was most wise.
We’ve had a major success which cannot be officially acknowledged.
But it is false that America didn’t find chemical weapons. It is false that Saddam didn’t order their release. It is almost certainly true that the hammer would have come down hard and fast if his generals had Scudded us. An example would have to have been set.
Eggplant,
You have a lot more faith in a Republican controlled congress than I. In recent times they’ve been only marginally better than the Dems. The Medicare Pharmacy plan; their massive deficits; their unwillingness to realistically confront pension reform or Social Security reform. And finally their unwillingness to take on Pelosi, Frank, Dodd, Scuhmer et al on the issues surrounding mortgage reform when that might have made a difference.
I don’t have any illusions about some trans-formative moment if the repubs win big in November. They will no doubt be better than the dems. But only marginally better.
blert @ 116 said:
“It is NOT TRUE that we didn’t find WMDs in Iraq.”
Sorry but “finding WMDs in Iraq” means a video on CNN showing Sarin/mustard gas artillery rounds stacked to the ceiling in one of Saddam’s enormous ammunition magazines or a partially assembled nuclear weapon.
That didn’t happen.
Yes, some stray chemical weapon rounds were found and used as IEDs. Given that Saddam shot thousands of chemical weapons at the Iranians during the Iran-Iraq war, it’s no wonder that a few duds were dug up from old battle fields. I would have shouted with joy if the Debka File rumour had been proven true that Saddam’s WMDs were shipped to Syria (maybe they were). However the definitive evidence (that video on CNN) was never produced.
kaba @ 117 said:
“I don’t have any illusions about some trans-formative moment if the repubs win big in November. They will no doubt be better than the dems. But only marginally better.”
Regrettably, I must agree. The Republicans had their chance prior to 2006 but blew it big time. I’m hoping something comes out of the Tea Party process.
From a previous thread, a link was left that was bad. I forget who left it, my apologies.
Here is a good link to “Exhibit13″ please watch it and pray for those lost to Islam’s evil.
And if your a Christian pray for the hundreds of thousands of followers of the Cult of Islam that will die in the future…
Because we will have killed them.
There is no other way.
Papa Ray
Ah, that it’s come to this, among friends…
Truth is confirmed by a video on CNN????????
I think someone has got it upside down…
eggplant Yep no real proof released to the public.
But:
“Satellite Photos Support Testimony That Iraqi WMD Went to Syria”
And
“IN FIRST, U.S. VOICES ASSESSMENT OF WMD TO SYRIA “
Then there is this article. Which points out that inspectors went to the sites where the convoys were in Iraq and found…nothing. Every bunker was empty.
“A desert mirage: How U.S. misjudged Iraq’s arsenal”
But of course, there is no real evidence anyone can show or at least has shown that the WMD actually went to Syria. But then tell me why convoys of trucks were seen at Iraqi weapons storage sites that were later found empty?
Does it make any difference now? NO not one bit, except that to say that Saddam never had WMD or would never have continued to develop and deploy them – can’t be proven either.
Except that everybody knows how he loved weapons.
Papa Ray
Kaba, Eggplant, While I don’t have much faith in the Republican establishment, the Democrat alternative is infinitely more destructive of our rights and way of life. The most recent example and outrage can be seen in this analysis of FinReg: http://dailycapitalist.com/downloads/doddfrank.pdf
It’s a really long post, but it basically says this new law grants pretty unlimited powers to the mandarins of the Federal bureaucracy to regulate almost anything in the economy in any way they see fit. It’s a set of goals, which are to be fleshed out by the regulators and appointed Czars, and that creates over a hundred new agencies. It’s looks even worse than Obamacare, if that’s possible. Only we won’t truly know how bad it is until the Czars and regulators are done with us, I mean it.
Eggplant…
The discovered rounds had never been fired.
The public domain is not the place to drill down into technical details. But these rounds were NOT duds.
They came straight from Saddam’s depots. That the despot had depots all over the western desert came as a surprise to us.
Not mentioned in my missive above was the subsequent discovery of even more chemical weapons and delivery systems. For the most part this reality has slipped behind the curtain.
EVERYTHING associated with WMD drops into classification pronto. It always is the case that it is far wiser to suppress the truth than to kill thousands, 100′s of thousands by being naively truthful about the chemistry of poisons.
The WMD justified the war is another MSM mantra that falls apart IF you read the Congressional Resolution authorizing the President to oust Saddam.
BTW, the first resolutions to go after him and depose him started under CLINTON. It was HIS administration – with all Democrats on board – who made a compelling case against Saddam’s evil.
Bush Sr. was diss’ed for not having done the deed on his watch. ( I have to agree with that one. I said,”It’s a mistake” before the echo died on Bush Sr. declaring Desert Storm a campaign fulfilled. I was hardly alone. Mrs. Thatcher felt the same way. Bush made this call without consulting ANY ally in the campaign! Arrogance!)
As a technical matter: it is impossible for chemical weapons of the binary type to be a dud. So don’t even dream that these rounds were ever dug up from an old battle site. Like pregnant virgins — they just don’t exist. Physically impossible in every way.
However, unicorns MIGHT exist.
blert @ 123 said:
“As a technical matter: it is impossible for chemical weapons of the binary type to be a dud. So don’t even dream that these rounds were ever dug up from an old battle site. Like pregnant virgins — they just don’t exist. Physically impossible in every way.”
I do not dispute that about binary chemical weapons (the agents are mixed by the acceleration of the artillery shell). However a quick search of the Internet indicates that Saddam used pre-mixed sarin, tabun and mustard gas as well as a binary nerve gas based upon sarin. There would have been plenty of dud shells laying about that were filled with premixed sarin, tabun or mustard gas. Those dud rounds could easily have been converted into IEDs.
Mad Fiddler @ 20 said:
“Ah, that it’s come to this, among friends… Truth is confirmed by a video on CNN????????”
I hear you and also have no respect for CNN’s version of “The Truth”. However this sub-thread started on the premise that G.W. Bush wanted to eventually go after the Iranians via Iraq as a staging area based upon the premise of eliminating WMDs. However doing so would have required the MSM/Left to actually acknowledge that Saddam had WMDs, e.g. a video on CNN showing WMDs in one of Saddam’s munition bunkers. The compelling evidence that would have forced CNN to go against the left wing narrative was never found. The satellite photos that Papa Ray linked would not have been sufficiently compelling to silence the moderate Left’s opposition. Only a video showing a US soldier standing next to captured nerve gas rounds stacked in a bunker would have done the trick. Also I find it hard to believe that there would have been something so secret about Saddam’s nerve gas weapons that their existence needed to remain classified (the Germans invented sarin in 1938).
I just found the news story concerning the IED/sarin weapon that Blert was referring to:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4997808/
This specific example was indeed a binary weapon and could never have been previously used (it wasn’t a dud). However Hans Blix explanation was reasonable that this could have been a one-off stray weapon. If many IEDs had been constructed that were based upon this weapon then we would have had compelling evidence.
I should also mention that I’m inclined to believe the story that some of Saddam’s WMD technology was shipped off to Syria. It makes sense that Saddam would hide his core WMD technology in Syria while waiting until European appeasement allowed him to rebuild his WMD arsenal.
That’s a nice clip with Dr. Kay.
Of course he’s done a beautiful job of misdirecting our concern towards trivial troubles in Iraq.
BTW, after this discovery the other nasties he discussed started popping up. All such discoveries are pushed behind the curtain as fast as possible.
Obviously, we are at war with an enemy that desires chemical weapons. Their purpose is to ship them to America and use them here. Duh.
So the rest of Dr. Kay’s blather about the travails of Iraq are not on point at all.
He did re-state for the record the incredible fact that Saddam did not have any distinguishing markings on his binary rounds. Every weaponeer realizes what a taboo has been broken. ONLY specialty troops with the right gear are allowed to even get close to chemical munitions in every other army in the world.
The full-blown Sarin weapons that Dr. Kay said he feared might be out there have been found, long after his interview.
We even found chemical weapons technology within the last two years that was just stumbled upon. Based upon its appearance, the gear looks like a chemical pod that can be carried by jet fighters. It had a discharge mechanism, too.
As for Dr. Kay’s comment about not finding any evidence of mass production. He’s killing me with his jokes. Mass produced is exactly what the 155mm binary weapon was. NO ONE produces that kind of ordinance as a short run prototype . We know that he was firing barrages of them in the 80′s.
We also know from insider testimonies that Saddam, at the last hour, gave instructions to destroy all of the production evidence, shift the paperwork into residential libraries and bury the compounds and equipment ASAP all over the countryside. So it’s hardly surprising that Dr. Kay couldn’t find the factory. To a huge extent they weren’t shifted to his eternal enemy in Syria, they were destroyed.
IF Saddam had actually shifted plenty of nerve agent to Syria it would have long since leaked back into the campaign and been sold to AQ.
Russian complicity in establishing and disestablishing Saddam’s chemical program seems patent. But no one in a position to know is outing them. I rather suspect that the lesson has been established: purchasing at great expense Russian chemical weapons tech gets you nothing but destruction. If it isn’t nukes then it’s conventional defeat. America will not tolerate the use of chemical weapons by proxy states.
Iran, of course, has not got the message: they just have to play with nuclear fire. Ditto for North Korea.
The latest remonstrations from the PLAN clearly indicate that the Kim Family Business is a wholly owed asset of the PLA and PLAN.
The CCP needs to get control of their military or the PLA will do to Beijing what the Imperial Japanese Army did to Japan’s politicians. How ever did that work out?
China’s opportunity to expand is nil. She’ll have simply EVERYONE against her from the outset. Hitler and Tojo have something to say about that calculus.
There is not one power on earth that wants American predominance replaced with Chinese predominance, not one. It’s her track record versus America’s.