Escaping Cults: The Mind Enslaved, Part II"Did Venus blow your mind? Was it everything you wanted to find? Did you fall from a shooting star and say, did you miss me while you were looking for yourself out there?"
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September 24, 2012 - 8:15 am
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See Part I: Cults: The Mind Enslaved
“Mom, how come that guy’s poster says God hates me?”
I unbuckle the toddlers for Mass while my oldest children jump from the van and stare at the neon-colored signs. Once a month the Westboro Baptist’s hate campaign targets our parish and I spend the last minutes of the Sunday-scramble assuring our toddlers that God loves them while my husband distracts the pre-teens from a woman wearing a shredded, filthy U.S. flag.
After Mass the signs are gone and the kids talk doughnuts, but it’s hard to forget the other children, those who spent their morning happily singing about our death. Unlike my son and the people of Topeka who find Westboro followers incomprehensible, I don’t need to ask, “Why do they do that?” I know. As a former member of a cultic organization, I inhabited the same Gnostic universe and remember exactly what it felt like to stand in opposition to society, thinking my group alone held the key to salvation, that we had the blueprint for Utopia and the mandate to transform the world. Different messages are scrawled on the signs, but all cult members share the same mental mechanism, a way of thinking that holds them in a true prison.
In part 1 of this series, “Cults: The Mind Enslaved,” I defined the essence of cult membership as a replacement of normal thought processes with blind adherence to an irrational doctrine revealed through controlling leaders. Most cult analysis begins with a taxonomic classification based on exterior characteristics. Warning signs and red flags circumscribe the domain of manipulative organization. This approach is limited because invasive groups can be deemed safe if they appear normal or lack the stereotypical, pop-culture features usually associated with cults.
Organizations such as Scientology, Jim Jones’s People’s Temple, or fundamentalist Mormonism have rigid behavioral structures that render individuation practically impossible. Many true cults lack such a physical control over members. In more fluid cults, members might pick and choose which aspects of dogma or behavior they will actually implement, giving them a sense of complete freedom. To accurately evaluate the cultic nature of a group, we must see if the organization facilitates the development of the Gnostic mental process in members who actually implement the ideology.
“The Mind Enslaved” summarized that human beings gain knowledge through sensory information from which we derive general principles upon which we base meaning and behavior. We also learn from adults and peers who share their acquired wisdom. The cultic mind bypasses reliance upon the senses and logical analysis. Instead, members accept the worldview — theology or philosophy — and code of normative behavior presented by cult leaders, even when all these fly in the face of evidence and reason.









Jeanette,
This is just so sad. There are real cults out there, evil, life controlling, life destroying cults. To say that your life experience gives you empathy because you belonged in a fluid cult is just sad. Bishop Williamson said many bad things and has been publicly castigated by his superiors. Jeanette, you were a nun. Years ago you told me they told you is wasn’t your vocation so you left. Your husband was a seminarian. He was told is wasn’t his vocation, so he left. You have a beautiful life together, be happy. I thought cults kept people around, usually against their will. I guess fluid cults are different. You have severed relationships left and right, you are acting more like you joined a cult rather than successfully ran away from one. The public forum is no place to expound bitterness, call your friends that reach out to you. We don’t care where you go to mass, we only hope you are at peace. You can write beautifully about poor people who are trapped in cults without pretending you were in one. Your commentary descends into silliness. Why would anyone preparing for motherhood study neurology or chemistry? Why not child psychology or early childhood development? Why not admit you originally hoped to become a physician’s assistant or nurse? I am sure interdisciplinary social scientists don’t have trouble finding work, you needn’t pretend you were in a cult people will value your opinions without you speaking in first person. Your pretending to be in a cult is just silly on the scale of a Monty Python sketch. It makes my wonder if that is Egyptian Gnosticism or Syrian Gnosticism I just can’t swallow!
Move on with your life, be happy, be at peace, call friends, Mary
Have I correctly deduced that you are a member of said cult?
Thank you, studious citizen, for saying, “said cult”. I am a PhD chemist, and old friend of Jeanette’s. There are no ‘memberships’ for laypersons. The SSPX is an organization of priests, sisters, and brothers (think monks) no different from the other orders of the church like the Benedictines or Carmelites. I attend mass offered by a SSPX priest on Sundays. He is a good man, and SSPX priest-friends of his were born Jewish. The SSPX is not anti-semitic. Yes, we do have a bishop who said some really stupid things and was publicly castigated by his superiors and removed from his position. There are problems with regularization of the SSPX’s position as an order and negotiations are continuing with Rome. Our holy father, Benedict the XVI is the pope and we pray for him, we are not sedevacantists (they claim there is no pope).
I find Jeanette’s claims shocking. Nobody stopped me (yes I am a woman) from getting a PhD, in fact I was uniformly encouraged and congratulated about my persistence with my studies by SSPX priests. I don’t understand Jeanette at all and am reaching out asking her to contact an old friend (same phone, address, email as always). On her personal blog, she responded to one of my posts with ‘glad to hear your family is well’ and then deleted the post and her reply. If she really believes I am in a cult (she even tweets the SSPX is a cult on twitter) and remembers our friendship, why doesn’t she Skype or call? None of this adds up. I am worried about her, I hope she is OK. If Jeanette or anyone in the Topeka KS area needs a place to turn to for help, there is a women’s shelter, called The Willow 785.770.3030. Be strong, get help….with love, Mary
One difference between the SSPX and groups like Carmelites and Benedictines: the SSPX is schismatic and has placed itself outside Holy Mother Church. You aren’t part of the Roman Catholic Church.
In Patti’s post #7, she sounds an awful lot like the people who think one can “pick and choose” which Church teachings you can follow; you all don’t sound much different from those who reject Humanae Vitae (oh, wait, that did come from one of the popes you reject…).
Isn’t beautiful when an old friend opens the lines of communication? I am very glad you are speaking to me. My faith is very important; I would love to talk to you about it. I don’t think a public forum is an appropriate place though. I am so looking forward to a call, email, or Skype. If you request a second time, I will be glad to talk about my love of God on this forum. I did notice you said, ‘you are not part the Roman Catholic church.’ Your opinion doesn’t matter, Pope Benedict XVI says I am, as do Benedictines and Carmelites! Also, I am the eighth child, clearly our family is pro Humanae Vitae and I have never rejected a pope. And hey, I really appreciate that non-judgemental kindness you are extending to me! Focus Jeanette, this conversation isn’t about my Catholicity, it is about cultism.
In the public forum, you have declared that I am a cult member, and that you were a member of a cult. Please enlighten all of us about your decision to say you were in a cult. Did anyone make you become a nun? Did anyone stop you from quitting being a nun? Were you encouraged not to make perpetual vows to be a nun until you were sure of you vocational choice? Did you marry Chris in a SSPX chapel, of your own free will? Did anyone choose your husband? I don’t think I need to ask if Chris was capable of making his own choices. I am concerned about you, were you forced in some way to marry? The priest asks every person in private if they are being coerced to marry, weren’t you asked that as well? Did you choose to study pre-medicine/PA courses or did someone choose for you? And what is your line of reasoning that caused you to say you were studying to be a Physician’s Assistant to make you a better mother? And why would you call studying pre-med, prenatal enrichment? Did your pastor at the time you decided to study ever say anything against the education of women or the Jewish faith (keep in mind he is currently my pastor and I will know if you are lying)? Did you lose money or land to the SSPX? Did anyone try to take your children from you? Did anyone limit or choose the size of your family?
How very odd…..I seem to hear silence from here. Jeanette, be honest, were you ever in a cult? Why are you saying these terrible things? Are you desperate to make money with your blog-essays to cover you social scientist college loans? Does that make it right to pretend you were in a cult? Think this through Jeanette.
I think it is inappropriate to talk to a dear old friend in public in this fashion, but since you won’t call, you give me no choice. I am worried about you. Cutting off old friends is a sign you may currently be involved in a cult. If you need help, it is just waiting for you, consider turning to The Willows.
I remain always the same, Mary
Isn’t beautiful when an old friend opens the lines of communication? I am very glad you are speaking to me. My faith is very important; I would love to talk to you about it. I don’t think a public forum is an appropriate place though. I am so looking forward to a call, email, or Skype. If you request a second time, I will be glad to talk about my love of God on this forum. I did notice you said, ‘you are not part the Roman Catholic church.’ Your opinion doesn’t matter, Pope Benedict XVI says I am, as do Benedictines and Carmelites! Also, I am the eighth child, clearly our family is pro Humanae Vitae and I have never rejected a pope. And hey, I really appreciate that non-judgemental kindness you are extending to me! Focus Jeanette, this conversation isn’t about my Catholicity, it is about cultism.
In the public forum, you have declared that I am a cult member, and that you were a member of a cult. Please enlighten all of us about your decision to say you were in a cult. Did anyone make you become a nun? Did anyone stop you from quitting being a nun? Were you encouraged not to make perpetual vows to be a nun until you were sure of you vocational choice? Did you marry Chris in a SSPX chapel, of your own free will? Did anyone choose your husband? I don’t think I need to ask if Chris was capable of making his own choices. I am concerned about you, were you forced in some way to marry? The priest asks every person in private if they are being coerced to marry, weren’t you asked that as well? Did you choose to study pre-medicine/PA courses or did someone choose for you? And what is your line of reasoning that caused you to say you were studying to be a Physician’s Assistant to make you a better mother? Did your pastor at the time you decided to study ever say anything against the education of women or the Jewish faith (keep in mind he is currently my pastor and I will know if you are lying)? Did you lose money or land to the SSPX? Did anyone try to take your children from you? Did anyone limit or choose the size of your family?
How very odd…..I seem to hear silence from here. Jeanette, be honest, were you ever in a cult? Why are you saying these terrible things? Are you desperate to make money with your blog-essays to cover you social scientist college loans? Does that make it right to pretend you were in a cult? Think this through Jeanette.
I think it is inappropriate to talk to a dear old friend in public in this fashion, but since you won’t call you give me no choice. I am worried about you. Cutting off old friends is a sign you may currently be involved in a cult. If you need help, it is just waiting for you, consider turning to The Willows.
I remain always the same, Mary
I’m sorry Mary, you have the wrong Jeannette. I usually post as “Jeannette” on the rest of pjmedia but I try to remember to post as “the other Jeannette” on Jeanette Pryor’s posts.
My experience with cults is mostly with the Legion of Christ/Regnum Christi cult, which invaded my old parish seven years back. So I was intrigued by “one N’s” posts regarding SSPX since it’s widely thought that the SSPX’s schism has a lot to do with why the Vatican is treading so lightly with the LC/RC cult (they’re very worried that the Legion will leave the Church just like your group did. You might be interested to know that the responses by current SSPX members toward Jeanette are VERY similar to the ones used by current LC/RC members when attacking former adherents.
Umm, I was just looking at your previous responses and noticed that you implied that it was the SSPX that told Jeanette she didn’t have a vocation?? That’s not how Catholics do discernment but it is how Regnum Christi 3gfs (aka “consecrated” women) do discernment. Yikes.
I think it might be slanderous against cults to lump the SSPX in as a cult.
http://jchristopherpryor.blogspot.com/2011/09/society-of-saint-pius-x-and-its-problem.html
Cute pen-name, Chris!
One thing that Jeanette gets right is that those in a cult – or those who follow a political system based upon a leader’s personality are acting on an internal logic. The logic of a cult or any form of irrationality is internally consistent. To the cultist, or the insane man it is the outsiders who have it wrong or are crazy.
Cultist can never, so long as they follow the internal logic of the cult be argued with because their internal logic will always lead them to the conclusion that the cult is right.
They must as Jeanette said begin to question the logic of the cult and often times that is all but impossible for them to do. This means that the antithesis of irrationality is not reason but force. Force does not always mean violence.
Sounds like radical Islam.
This is clearly evidenced by the left’s response to the debate — the “reasons” for Obama’s abysmal showing are pathetic at best. Their attmepts to rationalize the untter incomptence of their jugeared marxist leader are truly sad indications of serious indoctrination and propaganda.
Pete Vere’s 15 signs of a Catholic cult:
1. “Total” obedience to the pope. (What’s interesting about SSPX vs the others is that the SSPX chose to be “totally obedient” to an idealized version of PiusX and then just rejected subsequent popes!)
2. No sense of belonging to the local church. (That’s an easy one)
3. Lack of true cooperation with diocesan authorities. (another easy one)
4. Making use of lies and falsehoods to obtain approval (Of course, the SSPX is only now seeking approval from Rome, but it does look like there has been some deceit about the extent of SSPX’s anti-Semitism)
5. Too soon an insistence on placing all goods in common (no idea. If, however, there is a strong push for members to give much more than tithing, it would be a red flag in this category)
6. Claiming special revelations or messages leading to the founding of the group (non-approved revelations and apparitions of course. And a group doesn’t need to fit all of these categories before it’s considered a cult by the public)
7. Special status of the founder or foundress (This has to do with the founder’s lifestyle, how he is to be treated by other members. For example, Mother Teresa scrubbed floors, whereas Marcial Maciel had special food, his own jet and helicopter etc)
8. Special and severe penances imposed (dunno)
9. Multiplicity of devotions, without any doctrinal unity among them (dunno)
(cont)
10. Promotion of “fringe” elements in the life of the Church (kind of took up residence at the fringe, I’d say)
11. Special vows (dunno)
12. Absolute secrecy imposed on members (Are members discouraged from pointing out problems? Judging from the replies Jeanette has been getting, I’d say “yes, definitely”)
13. Control over the choice of confessors and spiritual directors (In general, regular lay Catholics don’t need SD; if a person decides he needs direction outside confession, he should seek out a good priest. If an SD is chosen for you, RUN!!)
14. Serious discontent with the previous institute of which certain members were part (lol. I’d say “yes”. It’s usually another order, monastery, etc, not Holy Mother Church Herself!)
15. Any form of sexual misconduct as a basis.
ICSA has five more:
1. The group is preoccupied with bringing in new members
2. The group is preoccupied with making money (paid Bible study, pressure to buy overpriced books, CDs, DVDs, training courses etc)
3. Elitism (lol. We’re all fully aware that SSPX members are “more Catholic than we could ever hope to be”)
4. The leadership induces feeling of guilt in members to control them (see previous replies!)
5. The group completely severs its members from the outside world (yes, there are cloisters, but this has to do with interaction with the Outside; is it only encouraged for recruitment, or do members feel free to have “regular” Catholic friends?) I hope this helps, and welcome home, Jeanette!
Ms Pryor,
I am astonished that you should see the SSPX as a cult just because it has attracted some weird people who go to its Masses. As to saying that you were in a cult, you bring up little proof of such a slanderous charge against the SSPX. What you admit is that you swallowed Bishop Williamson’s foolish personal opinions as being truth. How ridiculous is that? The SSPX endlessly encourages its followers to study the faith so that they will know what the truth is. Far from being a cult, the SSPX allows its members to have personal opinions, even daffy ones. But it adheres uncompromisingly to Catholic truth as it has been handed down since Apostolic times. Because this truth IS truth, it requires that we accept it. If you wish to call the SSPX a cult because of that, you must also see the Apostolic Church as a cult. Isn’t it time to be honest with yourself, Jeanette? You very foolishly accepted the private opinions of Bishop Williamson without seeking the truth about these things in the teaching of the Church. You cry “cult” and portray yourself as a victim, but you have only been a victim of your own gullability and your neglect to study what the Church really teaches. I realize it takes a measure of humility and honesty to admit “I was a dope” but it is wrong of you to besmirch the reputation of a religious body like the SSPX in an attempt to cover your own lack of prudence. It is a terrible responsibility to act and write as you have been doing. You will be responsible for the souls of those who are kept from Catholic truth by your writings.
Patti,
The SSPX has used Bishop Williamson for 30 years to train its priests. It never objected to his anti-semitism until the press caught him in the act. The Catholic Church says what Catholic Truth is, but the SSPX says the popes and the Catholic Church are Protestant. Bishop Williamson says the same thing. The SSPX denies the last sixty years of Apostolic Tradition. They are not Catholic.
Chris,
The SSPX accepts the Pope absolutely, while not accepting the things he promotes that are opposed to Catholic Tradition. They say that the Pope is a liberal, and so he is, but they absolutely accept him as the Pope. I think you need to realize that Bishop Williamson’s personal opinions are just that, his personal opinions. They are not the opinions of the SSPX, which has distanced itself from the bishop. I think we need to make a distinction between the living magisterium (the Pope) and Tradition. Surely you know that Tradition, spelled with a capital T is the oral Tradition of the Church passed down from Apostolic times. It is the patrimony of the Church, along with the written Tradition (Scripture) and that which is opposed to its teachings (ecumenism, collegiality, religious freedom, etc.) are not part of the Apostolic Tradition. You should know this if you know your catechism at all. The Popes can teach error just the same as any person EXCEPT when they invoke their charism of infallibility and speak from the chair of Peter to the universal Church on faith or morals. This the Popes after Pius XII have not done, so they teach on their own authority as men and have taught many errors. This is a tragedy, but it is a fact as well. No one is obliged to accept these modern errors that are opposed to Tradition, and in fact, we are morally bound to oppose them in the name of Truth. This the SSPX does. They are truly Catholic and why you should attack them for keeping the Catholic faith inviolate (I speak not of personal, daffy opinions here) is beyond me. Please study your catechism and give some of the time you are wasting on the internet to doing spiritual reading.
No, Tradition with a capital T is the syncretic Gnosticism that powers esoteric fascism, the notion that all religions (with the exception of Christianity, which lacks an initiation that separates adepts from dupes and preaches its gospel in plain words) are merely masks over the same unutterable truth. Google “René nGuénon” ad “Julius Evola”.
Um, wot?
So, having a couple archbishops go rogue and consecrate bishops without authorization from Rome, after the Pope specifically tells them NOT to do that, is “authentic” Catholicism? Now, I don’t consider myself to be a particularly good Catholic girl, but I distinctly remember that was not something that was considered ok. Ever.
In fact, I do believe that behavior was one of the offenses that could result in official excommunication from the Church, if my memory serves me correctly. (Yeah, yeah, I know…..we’ve got “anti-popes” in the Vatican, so what they say doesn’t matter…..and the 1.1 billion other people calling themselves Catholic are really Protestants but are too stupid to realize it, blah blah blah….)
————
Please, don’t be misled by Patti’s post. The SSPX is far from Catholic. It is as cultist and bizarre as the author of this piece states. Pope Benedict tried to reconcile them back into the Church by recognizing the Latin Mass back in 2007, and by lifting the excommunications of some of its members. There were even discussions about bringing them back in as a “personal prelature” (an autonomous group) in the manner of Opus Dei. But they refuse to give up an extreme antisemitism that permeates the group and refuse to believe that anything valid came out of Vatican II.
They wish to dictate to the rest of the flock, and the rest of us ain’t interested in the slightest. That’s what they are REALLY torked off about, not the “apostasy” of the modern faith.
Stunning…the last paragraph.
FBI renews broad Internet surveillance pushDirector Robert Mueller tells Congress that police are “increasingly unable” to bring criminals to justice because rapid advances in technology thwart surveillance.by Declan McCullagh September 22, 2012
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-57518265-38/fbi-renews-broad-internet-surveillance-push/
On the flip side of the coin, I am stuck in a CULTure that degrades motherhood and sees no worth in a women unless she has a Phd and a full time career. The thing is Jeanneane, if your utopian vision of perfect land really existed for women, we wouldn’t be forced out the doors of our careers when we become mothers. The truth is, college is really freaking expensive and unless someone is helping you pay for it, it is an incredible burden to bare just to gain an inch of self worth. Do I regret going to college, that is a tough call. On one hand I really enjoyed learning, on the other hand once I became a mother my degree became essentially useless. That part time job, work life balance utopia, it doesn’t exist. Motherhood changes your life, your priorities. I want my daughter to know the truth. Where can I find this cult you once belonged to? What I wouldn’t give to be allowed by my CULTure to embrace motherhood with all of my heart, and not have to walk around carrying this guilt and shame and feeling like a failure because I failed at balancing career and motherhood.
Even my boys, I want them to know that there are other paths in life that lead to success other than following the Cult of Academia. Our modern culture is obsessed with the college path, so much that people are willing to pay $200k for one child to go down a path that has become so watered down that they may not even get a job at the end of the rainbow. Young people are taking out life destroying amounts of debt for a chance at a $40k per year job that requires full life devotion leaving little room for growing a family. Is this utopia? Are we there yet Jeanette (sorry I called you Jeanneane before)? Is going to college really a better choice for a young woman than marrying a good responsible man and raising a family? I don’t see it.
Good on you for standing up for mothers! I consider that feminism has overstepped the mark and is now a detrimental force in so many ways. While it may be economically infeasible to remunerate mothers for their work, I believe a healthy society should make a point of holding mothers in the highest regard. A society that makes full-time mothers feel like they have somehow failed is one that is fast on its way to irrelevance.
It seems so often the case that these movements that spawn from a moral imperative, wane as a moral distortion.
Sounds like Catholicism (the real Church, not the schismatic SSPX cult) is what you want. But it doesn’t look like you have what it takes. Catholicism means always being “hated” by the world, ready to die for your beliefs if necessary. If you want to be “popular” for being Catholic, can’t help you. Seriously, if you don’t have powerful evil enemies, you just aren’t trying hard enough, right?
I don’t think my education was a waste even though I haven’t used it other than helping my kids’ with math homework.
I really love that song “did Venus blow your mind” No one I know has stare at Venus more than me. I am glad erudite big boy scientist have seduced ye in their Venus dogma keeping rif raf from staring at Venus because she is MINE MINE MINE , God willing of course and the gate is closed
USA was created from Great Risk takers starting with the Indians to the Vinkings to the portual fishermen to the Knights of the Templers to the pilgrams and all those fleeing tyrants in evil lands
(if you want to worship the Nephilm to keep you safe you are only inviting tyrants back into the land and they are always overthrown but sometimes by worse tyrants than they were-think about it ye comfortable under your lock box psychosis the secuar pschosis has temporary blessed you with)
The Democratic Party is a cult today, Obama is its Leader, and His voters are in thrall to Him.
There is no such things as cults. There is only religions you don’t like. The moment anyone starts talking about this or that group is a cult I assume the person is uneducated and probably a complete jerk.
That’s because you are uneducated and probably a complete jerk.
I was a mainstream Mormon for 3 years, back when GottaGettaMan was the overwhelming message to all Girls (we were not women in those days) regardless of our own wishes — I joined the Mormon Church because a Mormon man proposed to me and I was told that it might be my Very Last Chance so grab him and hang on. I had a good grounding in Christianity, having been to Bible College, though, and a father who taught me critical thinking, so once I began to hear about the Planet Kolob and the Twelve Tribes taking submarines from Africa to the USA, and particularly the part about the evil Lamanites (the Indians) who had killed all those Jews and thus condemned themselves to having a red skin — which, however, they could overcome on Earth and were promised they’d be “White Clean White” in Heaven…I realized that for many reasons they were a cult and not a Christian religion. My conclusions that drove me out of that church were legion; the main stumbling block of course is that they believe God and Jesus are seperate beings — they do not confess the Holy Trinity. Oh, and anybody who grew up on Asimov, Heinlein and Clarke knows that people fleeing an exploding Red Star would never settle on a planet revolving around a Yellow Star.
The greatest of all cults is Islam! Every Christian should read John Daniels book at amazon.com titled, THE COMING: A TRUE STORY OF HORROR This book is based on facts though it’s written in a fictional style. It is perhaps the most important book you will ever read other than the Bible.
Jeanette,
I tried posting this before and got shut down, but maybe this time it will go through. In the first place, in response to your rather catty comment, I have never rejected a Pope, nor have I ever rejected the teaching of a Pope, unless it can clearly be proven that his teaching goes against Catholic Tradition. How dare you make such a claim on a public forum? You have made this accusation to the detriment of my character without one iota of proof. Shame on you!
Some quotes for you to consider:
“For the Holy Ghost was not promised to the successors of Peter, that by His revelation they might make known new doctrine, but that by His assistance they might inviolably keep and faithfully expound the revelation or deposit of faith delivered through the Ages.” –First Vatican Council (1869-1870)
“What then shall the Catholic do if some portion of the Church detaches itself from communion of the universal Faith? What other choice can he make — and if some new contagion attempts to poison, no longer a small part of the Church, but the whole Church at once, then his great concern will be to attach himself to antiquity (Tradition) which can no longer be led astray by any lying novelty.” –St. Vincent de Lerins
Concerning Ecumenism: “Is it permitted for Catholics to be present at, or to take part in, conventions, gatherings, meetings, or societies of non-Catholics which aim to associate together under a single agreement everyone who, in any way, lays claim to the name of Christian? In the negative! … It is clear, therefore, why this Apostolic See has never allowed its subjects to take part in the assemblies of non-Catholics. There is one way in which the unity of Christians may be fostered, and that is by furthering the return to the one true Church of Christ for those who are separated from Her.” –Pope Pius XI
And finally, since you seem intent on defending ALL the teachings of the modern Popes without exception: “Peter has no need of our lies or flattery. Those who blindly and indiscriminately defend every decision of the Supreme Pontiff are the very ones who do most to undermine the authority of the Holy See—–they destroy instead of strengthening its foundations.”—–Melchior Cano, Theologian from the Council of Trent
I have great pity for you, because you seem to be ignorant of the very faith you profess to hold.
Patti
Patti- God Bless you, but Jeanette does not want to be a part of your cult. Why do you insist on chasing her around? Now I think I understand what Jeanette is talking about.
I asked a question, I made no implication, at this point I can’t remember her story perfectly. But listen to yourself, Catholic superiors often tell people that their vocation is elsewhere, otherwise anyone that insists would become a priest, even if mentally unfit for the task.
I am very sorry for you that you know people in the RC cult, it must be painful to see good people misused. Real cults such as that are horrible.
After you have been to mass at your own church some Sunday, I invite you to attend mass at an SSPX chapel. Listen to the sermon, have a cup of coffee in the social hall afterward and visit with the people a bit. We are just Catholics that love God and are doing our best to save our souls. We aren’t a cult.
Previously you compared Marcial Maciel to Marcel Lefebvre. Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre served in Africa for many years in very poor conditions before being called to assist Vatican II. He was a very holy and good man, at his tomb Cardinal Oddi called him a holy man and said thank you. Read about him, his father was killed by the Nazis in Sonneburg concentration camp for assisting the resistance. Chaim Lehmann came forward to say his family (Jewish) was saved by Rene Lefebvre.
All Catholics love the Holy Father (our fond name for the pope). Pope John Paul II, whom we love as well, had some very different ideas from past popes. Here is a quote from Italian journalists in “Il Foglio”, feel free to look it up. “We recall with consternation, going back 25 years{1986}, the chickens beheaded on the altar of St. Clare according to tribal rituals and a statue of Buddha placed on the altar in the church of St. Peter, above the relics of the martyr Vittorino, killed in 400 AD to bear witness to his faith.” I don’t think it is rash judgement to say, I don’t think God wants chickens beheaded on His altar or a pagan god worshipped there either. We still loved our pope, as a child can love an imperfect parent. Many Catholics will say that was a bad idea, he wasn’t speaking ex cathedra about killing the chickens and we aren’t going to do that in our parish. Having the courage to say a man can have a bad idea doesn’t make us cult members.
I am sorry the real Jeanette isn’t writing. She can only answer the questions I posed. She was and is the person in charge of her life. I have no idea why she would say we are a cult unless she is just desperate to be an expert at something for monetary gain. All of this is surreal, I can’t imagine tweeting to others that a kind old friend is a cult member, but she did. The worst of it for me is the lack of communication. I would like to know that she is OK. If she isn’t OK, I hope she gets help. SIncerely, Mary
“Jeanette, you were a nun. Years ago you told me they told you is wasn’t your vocation so you left. Your husband was a seminarian. He was told is wasn’t his vocation, so he left.” Red flag; Catholic discernment doesn’t look like this, no matter how vigorously you assert otherwise.
I have very little confidence in your various claims about JPII (Cool! Catholics call the pope “the Holy Father, too!) but yes, he was sinfully negligent toward his flock at times; my own personal suspicion is that he was misled by his corrupt aides, Sodano and Dziwicz. But I didn’t leave Holy Mother Church and go into schism over it.
You attempted to claim that LeFebvre was a holy man but mostly talked about his father. Similarly, Legionists talked about Maciel’s holiness (before TSHTF) but would quickly segue into San Rafael, Maciel’s great-uncle (many of us suspect that MM’s argument or perhaps poison killed Bishop St Rafael Guizar de Valencia).
I’m sorry I’m not the real Jeanette. Maybe she doesn’t want to be in touch with you because you think she’s “desperate to be an expert at something for monetary gain”. Personally, if a purported friend said stuff like that about me, I wouldn’t keep in touch either. Good luck and all that, and I’ll pray that you one day rejoin the Catholic Church.
apologies, comment 17 should be linked to Jeanette/other Jeanette’s comment of comment 1
Revelation 17 & 18 “come out of her MY people”
http://www.mosquitonet.com/~prewett/