Sex and the Gotham City on the Edge of Forever
The following video is a warning, not a how-to guide. Or as I wrote last month, “Man’s Crisis of Identity in the 21st Century — Now Neatly Summed Up in Video Form:”
Similarly, Kathy Shaidle has a new post at the PJ Lifestyle blog on why “Grown Men Don’t Read Comic Books:”
If you think I was too harsh on Christmas and families and Christmas-with-families last week, consider this:
On one of these recent holiday outings, I was obligated to spend three painful hours with a young man who:
* Was wearing boardshorts and flipflops (in December)
* Didn’t greet us when we arrived or say goodbye when we left
* First whine-ily refused to eat dinner, then, with a heavy sigh, slammed some food on a plate and went back to watching a Home Alone marathon, leaving the rest of us, including his elderly grandmother, at the dining room table. (“He’s busy downloading some computer games,” his mother meekly explained.)
* Was completely silent for the entire evening — except twice: first, he sprang to life at the mention of The Hobbit and lectured us about those 44 frames per second. (“If you can’t handle 3D, stay home.”)
* Second, when my husband mentioned our new favorite burger joint, the kid piped up that it was “s*it” because they “serve American cheese.” (Had the same cheese been called “Tibetan,” I guarantee he’d have asked for two slices.)
Now some of your are saying:
“Kathy, it sounds like you were a pretty petulant, taciturn teenager, too. Give the boy a break!”
Oh, sorry:
Did I forget to mention this “boy” is 33 years old?
At that “boy’s” age, Jesus had risen from the dead.
This unemployed man-child lives with his mommy and daddy and can barely rise from the couch.
Brutal stuff, but as Kathy writes, “They’re boors and they’re bores. And everyone reading this knows at least one of these ‘kids.’ They are legion.”
As to why they are legion:
I expect to hear from more than a few men that their incentive to better themselves, and thereby attract a marriageable young woman, is non-existent.
Between the easy availability of porn, the high cost of divorce and the reported paucity of non-slutty, non-shallow females on the market, why bother?
A “life” wasted debating the niceties of the “Prime Directive” with other male geeks is, when viewed from that perspective, actually quite rational.
There’s also another reason: as an alternative to comic books, superhero movies, and sci-fi geek culture such as Star Wars and Star Trek, Kathy suggests studying American history. But ever since so much of that past has been declared anathema by the academy, who view history as little more than groups of racist, imperialist white men tolchocking other groups of racist, imperialist white men for their land, geek culture has arisen to take its place. Rather than learn boring old American and Europen history, someone devoted to either of the major cinematic universes can happily spend hours upon hours searching through Wikipedia-style sites devoted to the technical minutia and “history” of the United Federation of Planets and Palpatine’s Galactic Empire. (The latter carbon dated both pre- and post-”Battle of Yavin,” for the Star Wars universe’s equivalent of the Gregorian Calendar — something that’s also under attack in the academy.)
Actually, it’s the mens rights movement, not comic book/sci-fi fans in general, who regularly denounce marriage, and modern American women—and ordinary guys who like women (they’re condemned as “White Knights”). Their rants usually end with something like, “Since all American women are fat, uppity, slutty, I’m gonna go get some decent, unspoiled, third world woman! That’ll show you all!”
They do this with little, or no, opposition from Conservative pundits, who generally sympathize with them. Not dating/marrying, because you’re a shy geek—bad; not dating/marrying because you believe all American womyns are evil, and marriage is a scam?—okay? Ooooookkkkaaaaaaayyyyy!
There are all sorts of fantasies, out there. The attack on Bengazi was caused by an anti-Moslem video. Hillary Clinton is a competent Secretary of State. We need more gun control. Why quibble about the unreality of Star Wars, or Star Trek, devotees, when America just re-elected an America-hating Moslem as president? What about all those Obama devotees? What about the fantasy, which our nation is presently indulging itself in, that socialism really and truly will work this time, we’ll do it RIGHT this time, you’ll see! (Uh-huh, yah, right.)
What about the dream world indulged in by many Conservatives, where “Mitt Romney isn’t a pure enough candidate for me! None of the Republican candidates are good enough, so I’m not going to vote at all—so there! Nyah, nyah! That’ll show you all!” (Enjoy the next four years, guys.) The Ron Paul fantasy—”Ron Paul is the only man who can save America!” Then, consider the fantasizing indulged in by many Republicans, with the “Mitt’s doing great, and he’s going to win the election!”
And, more fantasizing, after the election: “Republicans just need to reach out to Hispanics! Republicans just need to get rid of those awful Social Conservatives from the Grand Old Party! If Republicans approve gay marriage, they’ll get lots more votes!”
Science fiction, and fantasy, are not behind the most destructive fantasies running around our world, today (Did I mention “Arab Spring?”) In a world this stupid, why not spend your time playing video games? Buy those fuzzy purple high-heels, if that’s what you really want! It’s less unreal than the really crazy stuff that’s being peddled these days! And ignore the scolds, from both the left and the right.
(By the way—ever since the Aurora shootings, it seems to me that there’s been an increasing tendency to paint sci-fi/comic geeks as All That Is Wrong With America Today, and/or potentially crazed killers, just waiting their chance to don a Batman mask, and shoot up a movie theater. What’s the real agenda, here? Watch for more calls for censorship in the coming months, especially in the fantasy/sci-fi area—stuff like “Django Unchained!” is politically correct, and will get a pass.)
Amen maam.
The by Ms. Shaidle is the same kind of silliness that gun control nuts engage in. Take a problem with an obvious cause ( bad parenting in regards to the young man in her family) and expound on the hidden cancer that the “real” cause.
Hmn, you read the various men’s blogs and didn’t catch on to the fact that they’re over represented by the SF/Fantasy reading, video game playing, toy collecting, porn (addicted?) bunch. Even a few who think “dolls” are the future.
Right on target, Betty. Sometimes I can’t wrap my head around the fantasy world that passes for leadership and serious discourse in America today, and would rather spend my down time waxing philosophical on the nuances and plots in sci-fi/fantasy. Meanwhile, fantasies in the real world become facts to be taught as gospel, with heretics persecuted. I have to deprogram my kids from the latest enviro-whacko assaults (ie, your car, lawn mower, plastic bag, incandescent light bulbs are killing the planet) and America-is-the-most-racist-and-oppressive country memes. At least I’ve successfully turned my kids against those hippie spiral bulbs. Global warming and Islam is peace (no matter how many aretortured and killed in the name of Islam) are bigger fantasies than middle earth and warp speed. Also, if you really want an insight into realpolitik today, study the Star Trek Borg. The leftists want to assimilate us into a collective. And resistance is futile. The UN of today can be understood as a Federation of Planets run by the Borg. Is the New World Order with Obama in charge much different from the evil galactic empire run by Palpatine?
And the Conservative/Republican movement (if you can call it that, these days) needs a real wake up call.
Bpseudomallei, after the Aurora shootings, there were a lot of commenters, on various blogs saying comic book movies in particular had become far too violent, and needed to be toned down. One poster even said something like, “All those people died because YOU (addressing someone who defended the Dark Knight movie) had to get your Batman fix!” i.e., guns don’t kill people, murderers don’t kill people, comic book characters kill people. Makes sense, no? Well, no.
And this business of blaming unpopular groups, such as Sci-fi geeks, Coptic Christians who make videos insulting Mohammed, “Gun Nuts”, “Zionists”, etc. whenever something happens has been intensifying over the past year or so. Various groups are being demonized, even by so-called Conservatives, and it feels like we’re being softened up for censorship. And now, the whole gun control thing. . .
grace, the males of the manosphere are certainly a porn addicted bunch, who can’t wait for the creation of “Love robots.”
I do know a lot of male sci-fi/comic fans, whoever, and none of them ae into the the strangeness that is the Mens Rights Movement. (My impression, by the way, is that very few manosphere guys read all that much, or have much interest in any sort of literature.)
My point was that many “Conservative” bloggers want to have it both ways. They want to sneer at all those geeks still living with their parents as “40 year old virgins”, sad exhibits of America’s failed manhood, wussy products of our failed educational system who were raised on too much self-esteem. . . yet they’re often quite sympathetic to the plaints of the manosphere, when it rants about the evils of feminism, the awfulness of American women and how those uppity modern womyns have destroyed marriage. I repeat: Mens movement guys avoiding women and marriage = “Good” for them; Geek guys avoiding women and marriage = “Bad” for them. Er, cognitive dissonance, anybody?
Too many Conservative pundits are way too eager to rally behind anyone they see as being on “our” side—even when said really is a racist, woman-hater or an anti-semite. (Look how respected Pat Buchanan was on the right, for so many years—and still is, by some.)
Believe me, the left has the same or greater problems when it comes to cognitive dissonance and making excuses for everybody professing to be on their side.
Just look at the late Senator Robery Byrd. The guy was an important member of the KKK for godsakes, organizing a new chapter of it as a young man, and yet he gets a hero’s burial by the Democrats, Obama even attends the guy’s funeral. Yet anybody who criticizes the great Obama must be a racist. Ted Kennedy was guilty of killing a young woman while driving drunk and waiting to report it yet he along with the Philandering Bill Clinton were heroes for women’s rights while Romney is engaged in a “war on women” for arguing that just maybe the federal government shouldn’t force everyone to buy birth control. The MRM is a pretty small player compared to that stuff.
As far as the MRM itself goes, they make a few decent points about the need for reform of divorce and child custody laws but as you point out hurt their cause with all the idiocy about sex robots, marriage boycots, and mail order brides. The reality is that, as the article points out, both men and women of my generation and the ones around it have been poisoned by the culture at large. Pointing out that the culture as a whole is sick is a good thing even if their conclusions are wrong. There’s nothing healthy about a man living at home and obsessing over fantasy in his 30s and there’s nothing healthy about a woman deluding herself into trying to live the “cougar” or “sex in the city” lifestyle thinking she can just marry a decent man in her 40s. Both those things can more accurately be seen as symptoms of the underlying rot of our society.
The dudes problem isn’t that he is a sci-fi fan.
It’s that he never grew up, nor does it seem that he was ever taught proper manners.
Those blaming art or inanimate objects for killings are excusing the killer.
It’s not that any of these things are inherently bad (I enjoy video games and star wars as much as the next guy) the problem is that it gives these “men” something to do. If as children they were properly raised and learned how to take responsibility for themselves whatever love they had for star wars wouldn’t be a problem. But because the never learned to grow up (for whatever reason), they haven’t grown up. star wars just give them something to focus their energy on.
Blaming the mens rights movement for this is inane as well.
The law is unequal, when it comes to men and women. Its a fact. It needs to be addres in an age of equality under the law.
We can start with draft laws and Federal Aid for College tied to draft registration. Only men have to do this. It’s time for women to step up and take on the responsibilities those equal rights confer.
Or, is it “men have obligations, women have opportunities”?
Sorry Ed. This time, I have no clue what the heck you are talking about.
Betty Blue
Actually the manosphere is a pretty literate bunch. Even a few published SF/Fantasy authors. The thing is, you (and you’re not alone) are personalizing Kathy’s generalizations. If you’ve managed to to be an adult with adult responsibilities and an adult’s maturity, then her post is not about you. But, there is a significant portion of kidults out there that fit the stereotype. Enough to be noticeable. And enough to notice that these escapist behaviors are expressed through certain mediums. Does that mean that SF caused them to be that way? Doubtful. More likely is that a high number of SF readers are introverts, and that this, among other things, is their escapisim of choice. And as a fellow SF reader,introvert and adult, I’m aware that we aren’t ALL like that. But I’m aware that they exist.
Look this is only one area of escapisim. And introverts are not the only ones. The post focused on this particular area, so I’m addressing this particular niche.
Now, I personally think that the MRA have some pretty unpleasant types. Then again, so does the feminist movement. But they’re relevant to this conversation because I think that they have some valid points as to why men are opting out. Especially when it comes to marriage, or rather fear of divorce and the unfair laws.
Something else to consider. If the womens movement was about freedom from male authority, then the natural social progression for men is about freedom from female responsibilty. And that’s going to free up a lot of time, not to mention require a lot less education and a lot less money. The incentive to take on adult roles is lacking.
I might not respect it. Too fear based for my liking. But I can understand it.
As for a softening up on SF books and movies being censored, I can’t say. Though I have noticed that some are trying to deflect the gun issue by asking why video games aren’t under the same scrutiny.
If the manosphere is literate, you couldn’t tell from any of their output that I’ve read. A lot of them don’t even seem to speak English very well.
I remain skeptical of their actual literacy.
Your defense of them just proves my point, and illustrates the Conservative double-standard, at work here: Fanboys who like comics, and sci-fi, are horrible, awful people, because they don’t date and take on the responsibility of marriage and parenthood and live with their parents well into adulthood; manosphere dudes, on the other hand, are sensitive, troubled souls, who live with their parents, or by themselves, well into adulthood, because they’ve been victimized by eeeeeeevil feminists, who’ve turned them off dating and marriage, because feminists are eeeeeeeevil.
Or something.
i.e., when introverted sci-fi geeks opt out, it’s worrisome and troublesome; when the manosphere dudes opt out, it’s because they’ve got valid problems with feminism (Seriously—have you really ever actually read these guys? They’re seriously deranged! Your average sci-fi fan, introverted or not, has nothing on them! Check out the manboobz blog, sometime!)
In short, it all depends on whose ox is being gored; a lot of Conservatives don’t like feminism (hence their approval of the Manosphere), and a lot of them are uncomfortable with imaginative fiction, fiction or any sort of writing, period. (So are a lot of progressives, but that’s another topic, for another day.) Hence, their disapproval of “Geeks”.
And, seriously, grace, why should video games, guns, Batman movies, science fiction novels, comic books—why should ANY of this be under any kind of scrutiny, at all? Why is the government, and all the usual spokesholes, suddenly so interested in what law abiding people are doing, how they entertain themselves and how they occupy their time? Oh, yeah, it’s to stop violence—and save the children. It’s all for our own good. Too many manboys out there, living with their parents and reading Tolkien. That’s the real danger. Yah, right.
And why are conservatives going along with this B.S., instead of focusing on Fast and Furious, Benghazi, the real story behind the “Innocence of Moslems” video? (And, by the way, whatever happened to all the Benghazi survivors? Why haven’t they been interviewed?)
Oh, let’s just pop back off to fantasyland, boys and girls! Don’t worry, government will protect you from all those nasty video games! Arab spring, anybody?
If being responsible and “manning up” means putting up with a princess who thinks I should only look at her, consult her on every dime I spend, demand that I fix her car, spend the whole holiday doing it while she goes shopping with her friends and then never says “thank you” for my doing it, then I’m all for MY independence. And there are a lot more immature women out there than I think you’d care to admit.
I have similar problems with immature men, so don’t confuse the issue.
I am in my 50′s. I am divorced. I got hounded for not getting suitable work. I found suitable work 2,000 miles away. Then she bitched because she didn’t want to move. Fine. Then, while I was 2,000 miles away and sending my paychecks home, she dumped me.
Fine.
Incidentally, after she got her way and divorced me, she moved…1500 miles away from where we used to live together.
Now, as for the “single” scene. I have met dozens of women who primarily want a daddy-figure for their teenage kids. Sorry…not interested because their real daddy, be they absentee or just an a-hole, tend to undo any effort I might try to make. Reason? Petulant obstructionism. They are angry at each other and the issue wasn’t over when the divorce papers were signed. They continue to rag on one-another while also trying to drag me into it, looking for an ally or a willing dupe to engage in further ridiculous activity.
America has a maturity problem, it is true. I submit that this is one major reason divorce is so rampant. Not the only reason but a big one. First, in the person asserting to be “all grown up” has sex, gets pregnant and is now a ward of the state in their income situation. (welfare)
The “father” is a post adolescent teenager who likes to go out and party and “hook up” with this hottie or that. Empty, vacuous people doing little else but verbally masturbating on facebook or twitter or whatever the latest BS thing is.
Women my age almost categorically hate men and have failed to realize the root of their anger because they never have been forced to admit they were wrong. Either daddy never made her do it or her ex simply realized she was never going to be wrong. It’s the republican/democrat “compromise” discussion all over again. They won’t. He will in that he has to give in to her demands/desires.
I recall one girlfriend, I could not do as she wanted because I had to work. She was furious, threw a little tantrum and I was DONE with her. No explanation would suffice. I have tried dating and various set-ups because I don’t want to seem negative and because I still believe that in order to meet the right one, you have to, at least, meet SOMEone.
But the spectrum of bad behavior I’ve seen from women from 35 to 60 is very broad indeed. Another feature is the constant calling. “What are you doing?”. I am busy..I have a paintbrush in my hands and I cannot talk right now. Or, I am at work…I am working. I will call you this evening. Is it important?
I think television has awarded us a whole box full of insecurities because the neat, scripted “relationships” you see on the idiot box are encapsulated and made to seem real. My ex wife once told me, “married people don’t fight”. I knew there was bound to be trouble. Married people fight all the time, about many things…the trick is to filter the important and pressing from the senseless bickering.
Another feature is mind-games. Here…I am a guy. I’m not going to play the game about “if you don’t know what made me mad then I’m not going to tell you.” That’s petulant bullsh*t. The last woman who pulled that on me did it three years ago and I haven’t spoken to her since.
There’s plenty of blame to go around. When I am dating, I remember being married and how she has feelings too and to make sure, not just for now, but always, to be polite, careful with my words and thoughtful. But I’m not perfect and I never expect her to be perfect. I don’t put on a show, either. I am what I am. Therefore, I will not alter my mood to pretend to like her friends, who seem very engaged in trying to piss me off by prodding me and giving me a “job interview”. No. Not going there. Get bent.
I’m not in high school. I have told my girlfriend’s friends to go pound sand. Politely but firmly. At this point though I am happily single, realizing that I can be happy alone. I made the effort. I don’t really find myself all that interested in being paired up right now. If a nice lady comes along and she wants to spend time with me, I’m all for it. When it becomes a exercise in redefining my boundaries or “fixing” me…I’m then back to being single.
I’m exactly that guy who the women of the 60′s wanted but then became unhappy because I remained that same guy when they got me. I often joke that women work to get a doctor, a lawyer, a professional who will be a good mate, then they bitch because he’s never home. He’s out being a professional because he built his practice by working his ass off to get there. Same with most jobs that professionals have. Seems to me though that the women’s idea of give and take is mostly take with not much give.
So go ahead, flame away.
TPM, that the Left may be worse in this matter doesn’t excuse Conservatives doing the same thing; ever since the election there’s been all sorts of Republican moaning and groaning and soul searching about “Where did we go wrong?” and, “How can we get our message out?”
Well, for starters, we could stop insulting, and alienating, large swaths of the public, like comic book fans, uppity feminist womyns and people who still live with their parents (the economy sucks, in case you haven’t noticed; it’s hard to find your own home, when you don’t have a job.) Secondly, we should admit that a lot of Conservative writers are bilious, off-putting, narrow minded and just plain not good. And, yeah, the writers on the Left are pretty bad, too—but ours are nothing to boast about, and aren’t going to make any points, or win any allies.
As for pointing out the sickness of our culture—give me a break! Shaidle, for instance, pushes Adam Carolla, and is obsessed with the “Die Hard” movies, and stand up comedians. A lot of conservatives are in love with the anti-religious, facistic, Ayn Rand. And so it goes.
I wasn’t trying to blame sci-fi as a whole or anything, or even people living at home necessarily, my point was attacking the types portrayed in this article who take the whole escapism-fantasy thing to the extreme and probably live at home because of that, not the economy. It’s like the difference between having a few drinks once in awhile vs being so plastered all the time you don’t even know what day it is. One is totally all right, the other is destructive. I’ve seen many men in my own generation get so involved in video games, or various other fantasy pursuits that it’s taken a huge toll on their life, no different than alcoholism or drug addiction. One guy from my high school dropped out of college because he spent the whole day playing world of warcraft and failed all his classes. He later joined the army and is now married with a child. My point is that he’s the exception when it comes to how he responded to the problem, if he hadn’t been kicked out and forced to join the army he probably would still be living at home unemployed and playing video games 12 hours a day. Other people I know did exactly that. People getting into destructive obsessions is nothing new, but I think that in former times people were more strongly encouraged to do something productive about it, like join the military or something along the lines of breaking out of your own miasma. Today I see too much normalization of the sort of unhealthy obsessions described above, there is much less of an expectation that a man will go on to assume the traditional responsibilities of adulthood. You see that not just in the people you meet but in various statistically reported trends and portrayals in the media. My main point about culture is that delaying marriage and other adult responsibilities until late in life is not a good or healthy thing, yet it seems to be becoming the norm. Part of that can be blamed on economic forces like the terrible job market, or that jobs that didn’t formerly require a 4 year college degree now do, but part of it is definitely cultural too.
No double standard. I’ve pointed out the escapisim exhibited by those in the manosphere as well as pointing out that there are valid points that they make. In the comments section at Kathy’s post, I’ve expressed that the type of man that she is discussing as well as the type of man who just shows up for sex (alpha by mano standards) are both parasites, as are the women who enable them. Both are symptoms of a civilization that’s about to collapse. We’ve seen it before in history.
This is part of why it’s troubling to see the types of men Kathy describes, or see the types of behavior being encouraged in the sphere. The former is too emasculated and incompetent to invest in civilization or to defend it. The later are unwilling to invest or defend it. In fact, they have a rather pedestalized idealism that western civilization has to fall before it can be corrected. It doesn’t bode well when those numbers are growing. There have always been those types of men, however, we’ve never seen this type of growth in recent history. The culture can only absorb so much. And let’s face it, we don’t know what kind of collapse we might face in the future. What kind of creditors will show up at the shores.
Which brings me to a more selfish aspect. Third world toilets don’t have women’s rights. Such things are maintained by a functioning society and a functioning rule of law. Short of that, a social contract between men and women which allows for chivalry. But, chivalry is scorned by the feminists and the mra alike. So…..it might behoove us to find and fix the problems.
As for the government playing nanny, or trying to divert from issues, what else is new. Fight it like always.
One of the most necessary things a society does for its survival is to tell boys when they are growing up that it is their job to protect girls and women. Now, obviously that can be taken to an undesirable extreme but even taking it to an undesirable extreme is infinitely better than not doing it at all.
Yes. And for our daughters to be raised to show courtesy and respect for the gestures. Which ties in with Kathy’s post. We’ve centered on the sci fi aspect, but there was also the aspect of childish entitlement,rudeness and boorish behavior.
When adult males became “guys” instead of men and continuously are referred to as such and all females over the age of 12, are called “women”, one should not be surprised at such behavior.
How much of a difference is there between young people discussing the mythology of Star Wars, vs. young college people of an earlier generation discussing the mythology of the Iliad and the Odyssey?
Studying American history is no substitute for enjoying fiction. And part of fiction is mythology, whether it’s Greek mythology, Roman mythology, Star Wars mythology, etc.
Mythology is fiction as a morality play. We read about Daedalus and Icarus, not to learn how to fly, but to study an example of dangerous hubris. We read Genesis in the Old Testament, not to learn natural science, but to learn about Man’s relationship to God.
The reason why Star Trek has appealed to so many young people for over 40 years, is because of its basically optimistic and hopeful view of humanity’s future: Our civilization isn’t going to be destroyed by nuclear war or anything else; we’ll head out into space for the ultimate adventure.
We are failing our young people by all this grumpy doom and gloom defeatism I see around PJ Media. Frankly, after Obama got re-elected, PJ Media became downright depressing.
‘Third world toilets don’t have women’s rights.’
In fact through five thousand years of history, how many civilizations can you name that have had women’s rights? Or men’s rights for that matter.
So if there is a collapse of culture in the future which seems increasingly likely….? I don’t it is difficult to imagine what the world will be like then.
Bad for all of us of course, but women have an even greater stake in preventing it than men, I would think.
This is why I find the nihilist argument idealistic. The men who think that western civilization has to fall in order to be corrected seem to not understand that they wont be in a position of power to do that.
And how is Conservatism planning on fixing the problems?
By sympathizing with the manosphere’s “Valid Points?” That’s not going to win any allies among women, either liberal or conservative. (And why legitimize these guys at all?)
By reinstating chivalry?—a concept a lot of Conservatives, like MRA’s and feminists, don’t hold much truck with. There is no War on Woman, at least not in the United States, but a lot of Conservative writers make it clear that they dislike modern american females: too lazy, too feminist, too fat, too anexoric, bossy, etc. They want to return to some ideal time where men pounded their hairy chests instead of waxing them, and womyns knew their place, and all was swell—but that time never existed. Read some actual, honest books, yes, I know—literature, EEEEAAAARRRGGGHHHHH! Jane Austen, Edith Wharton, the Bronte Sisters, Charles Dickens, Mark Twain; The happy age of chivalry never existed.
Should we blame Sci-fi and comic books, and ridicule those who enjoy them? Again, that’s just going to alienate a lot of would-be allies. It isn’t going to make men more masculine, save civilization or make introverts less introverted (and what’s wrong with being introverted, anyway?) You can’t tell someone “Get a job!” when there are no jobs to be had; the economy is in dire straits, and this is as much the fault of Republicans as it is of the Democrats. And what is the American citizen supposed to work for? To support endless Middle-Eastern wars in order to bring about some never-materializing Arab Spring? To send their tax dollars governments like Egypt, Pakistan and the Palestinians, who hate us? To give Obama another million dollar Hawaiian vacation? Should men serve their country? Ambassador Stevens did, and look what happened to him? What are men to be manly for? What are they supposed to fight for?
Are Conservatives even asking these questions?
Which brings me back to my original point—just what are Conservatives actually doing to change our poisoned culture? Why do so many Conservative writers come across as narrow minded scolds? Why do they have so few original ideas—and the ones they do have are usually nutty? Why are they so uninspired?
We have some good writers: Steyn, Hanson, Neo-neocon Sarah Hoyt, etc., but they’re overshadowed, and outnumbered, by the third-raters: the objectivists, who’d like to convert the whole world to the worship of Ayn Rand; the bigots, who hide their bigotry under a veneer of “Speaking truth to political correctness” (as Kathy Shaidle herself will tell you, just look what happens whenever she posts something at Taki Magazine; all the Jew haters crawl out from under their rocks); the “F*ck the poor” fiscal Conservatives, who wish all those annoying social Conservatives would just get lost, and stop embarrassing them? The guys who just don’t like women, and try to hide their dislike under a veneer of “Speaking truth to feminism”; the silly latching on to anyone, or anything, that seemingly supports conservatism, whether they actually do or not? (Camille Paglia is a whack-job, not a deep thinker. Adam Carolla, and Ted Nugent, aren’t funny and, sorry P.J. Media—there are no hidden Conservative messages in reality shows.)
The Conservative movement needs a real wake-up call.
Why do so many Conservative writers come across as narrow minded scolds? . . . .(Camille Paglia is a whack-job, not a deep thinker. Adam Carolla, and Ted Nugent, aren’t funny and, sorry P.J. Media—there are no hidden Conservative messages in reality shows.)
So, Betty. Are you, um, a conservative writer?
wow, ya’ll have the most interesting thread I’ve read in a long, long time.
Um, the softening up bit: Tipper Gore and her hysteria in the late eighties, early nineties: the federal government seized the stock and closed down comic book shops and independent record stores. All for hysterical fears about influencing children. I knew some of those guys. Grown men, owning businesses, bankrupted b/c of a Democrat.
It’s not too far-fetched. They’ve done it before.
They also, by extension, bankrupted a great many independent cartoonists who would sell their stock to the comic book store. I’d like to point out that they were usually libertarian, or at least highly- questioning of the government being a good thing.
Not that questioning the Democratic Status Quo will ever harm you, ever (cough, branch davidians, cough elian, cough, cough)
Some people are just not cut out for things like marriage and family.
Guys like this are not just of the comic book variety and may have vary “manly” hobbies. One I knew was into RC cars, guns, actual car racing and had a successful career. He got married later and they had a few kids. It was a disaster for both of them.
The comic book guy would probably never have gotten into that mess because he does not add up to acceptable mate for women (which is what Kathy’s article is really about). The other guy with his manly pursuits and solid income is a catch, but they are really the same guy. Women will see the second guy as having “a few flaws but I can fix them”.
Sex and the City is pretty much the Mary Tyler Moore show except with Cosmopolitans and extra Estrogen.
@ Curt A
Yes.
@ Betty Blue
Should we blame sci fi and ridicule people who enjoy it. No. Plenty of adjusted people who like sci fi. And it’s not the point. Escapisim and an inability to grow up to be a functioning adult is . That we notice their childishness through sci fi extremism is what’s being noted. In which case, yes, I’ll mock. Children need nannies, of which the state would be more than glad to comply with. You keep reframing in this direction, and it’s getting tedious.
What’s wrong with being introverted?
Nothing. Like extroverts, introverts are still expected to be functional adults.
You can’t tell someone to get a job when there are no jobs.
Make one like the rest of us, it ain’t going to come looking for you. In this day and age, with a global market, you can start a business with the click of a mouse. It’s never been easier or cheaper. Honestly , It’s not like Grapes of Wrath. It does require guts, determination, competitiveness and an ability to judge. Something that the “let’s hold hands and cross the finish line together” crowd are not always comfortable with.
Regarding endless wars and fiscal stupidity. What are men supposed to be manly for?
EXACTLY!!!!!!
And men are asking those questions. And opting out.
The happy age of chivalry never existed.
Human nature is selfish. Chivalry requires a strong moral code backed up by the ability to enforce it. It’s also, by it’s very nature, voluntary.
What are the conservatives doing to change our poisoned culture? Not much. Though, I’m not sure that a political entity would be appropriate to do so. Though they are at least willing to tackle political correctness. If it brings out the bigots, whatever. Free thought and free speech is better than pc newspeak.
Look, I realize that some conservatives think that by calling a spade a spade, it’s dividing people. A robust culture can hash it out in the market place of ideas. People, ideas and a culture that are too delicate to with stand scrutiny are not robust.
Plenty of adjusted people who like sci fi.
Well plenty of well-adjusted young adults like Sci fi – but as they mature their interests change – as they should. No shame in that.
‘Human nature is selfish.’
Oh how much better our world would be if that statement was only true. If you really think humans are selfish, you haven’t been paying attention for the last two thousand years (hint, Christianity would never have developed into a world religion if most humans were selfish)
Lol, I get what you’re saying. But I’ll respectfully point out that it’s because of man’s fallen nature that Christ made his sacrifice. We learn and cultivate higher and noble traits. Nobody has to teach a child to be selfish.
I can think of at least one good reason to keep sci-fi conventions around. It’s a one-stop shop for obtaining a tech-type, smart boyfriend. I did it twice. It’s amazingly efficient.
I went to one to meet a friend for going clubbing, and counted the guys, and what they were talking about, and then went back. I asked an acquaintance – aspy- to help me find a guy with a list of requirements- and he went down the list until it was narrowed to two candidates. I picked,he was single, I had a perfectly great boyfriend- smart, handsome, interesting, employed, for a solid year, before I moved to another state. He had friends, too. My friends ended up dating all his friends. I can say with some confidence these were the nicest, smartest guys they ever went out with. It was the easiest pick-up, ever.
Where else can you say ” I want a six-foot-plus, blue-eyes,blonde-hair, rocket scientist” and have him fetched for you? More than one! I had to decide based on geography- who lived close enough for a weekly date. It was brilliant. The best part, the logical ruthlessness, and up-frontness? The guys got it. I wasn’t called demanding, manipulative or bitchy. It was logical.
I have no clue why Twilight conventions full of single young women, Jane Austen fan groups, and sci-fi conventions aren’t all scheduled on the same weekend, on a strip of hotels right next to each other. It’d be the easiest meet and greet, ever.
Your name isn’t Penny by any chance, is it?
They don’t schedule like that because of Her.
See, geeks don’t really want Penny. They want that girl that Leonard almost cheated on Priya with, Alice. Alice is Her. She’s one of the girls AT the scifi con. She’s part of the geeks subculture. She’ll debate superheroes. She’ll costume. She do crazy things at con parties. But best of all, she really understands.
They’ll take you, Ari, and someone like Penny, but you’re second best. Oh, they don’t know that you’re second best–they think you’re IT, because you’ll talk to them and even touch them. and they’ll try to involve you in their geekery(the same way you’ll try to get Mr.Six-foot-plus, blue-eyes,blonde-hair, rocket scientist to hang with your friends and be into the stuff you like) and make you into Her. They don’t know they’re doing it, they think they’re just sharing.
But here is a word of warning, Ari(though I suspect you’re more Her than you’re letting on), what the geeks are into is very habit forming, very contagious–they’ve shown it on Big Bang Theory, the girls arguing over superpowers, Penny knowing s/f trivia–and even absorbing some of the ‘more esoteric’ content. You’ll wind up, one day, going to a convention with anticipation.
Can I start laughing now, azathoth? I don’t care if my kids go to conventions- they’ll like them. They see movies with their friends, and play video games with their friends, their Dad, and their Dad’s friends. They have a whole life where they expect to grow up and do okay- because the things they already do, they already see grown men doing.
I’ve got a ten year old with his own savings plan for college. I’ve got another kid figuring out his high-school, then college job, so he can afford a full-size,professional clone-trooper costume. I don’t have to worry about them falling down into subculture immaturity- they’ve got grownups with the same interests, and damn fine jobs, that they want to grow up to be. One kid is already plotting out engineering school, first job, saving up for his first company to found. I’ve already had to ask around for internships- that’s ten years out.
I don’t have to worry about girls, either. The home-made clone-trooper vinyl Butterick costume got handed down to an extremely cute, extremely smart girl with an interest in light-sabers. It’s a broad enough demographic that there are some adorable little girls interested in it. Studious, smart, ambitious, sheltered little girls.
The guys? Have girlfriends, or wives, or wives and multiple kids. They’ve got dogs and cats and go to political stuff, go to football games, have parties on the Fourth of July. They’re normal guys.
Their friends are normal, too. Probably nicer than my friends at that age. They’re in extra-curricular stuff at school- football, track, soccer, orchestra, band, honor society volunteer work. Church youth group. They don’t have to think the weird status- monkeying that goes on at school defines them-they think they are cool with their friends. It’s a kind of shelter- you might have braces and pimples, but you’ve got some high-score on Modern Warfare x-box live, so you’re okay.
I have a question. Why on God’s green earth don’t the parents of the free-loading 33 year old she describes kick his lazy, good-for-nothing, game-playing, comic book addicted, useless as teats on a boar ASS out on the frickin’ street?
Would you do that to your own son you say? In a heartbeat. We raised two of ‘em. One joined the infantry at age 22 (we had told him we would not give him another dime so he could get incompletes and party) and the other (we paid his tuition only, he worked for his own room & board, graduated in under 4 years) is a computer programmer. Both knew by the time they were 12 they would someday be expected to pull their own damn weight. We’re proud of both and would help them out of a bad spot if needed. But give them free room & board at 33 while they fritter? Not a snowball’s chance in hell!
you know, I don’t think I ever asserted I was all that and a bag of chips. I said, “I showed up and went guy shopping.” It was sort of like finding the Comstock Lode of nice guys, instead of sifting through 99 drunks at a bar.
But, you know, I’m immune to all that. I have to, uh, get offline and fold laundry to Buffy the Vampire Slayer before the kids get home, which Leslie Loftis told me about, b/c you know, we were talking politics and economics, not Buffy+ Spike, Buffy+ Zander.
Immune, I tell you, Immune.
While there is a tremendous (im)maturiy problem in our country, it sounds like the 33 y.o. in question has a psychological disorder of some sort.
Probably a personality disorder, or working towards one. Still, a personality disorder is just the scientific way of saying your personality sucks. It’s not mental illness.
oy.
az, think this through with me. Truly beautiful models, women, have prominent cheekbones. Prominent cheekbones are like big feet- you have to grow into them. Most people get their sense of social worth in middle school. Prominent cheekbones look heinous on undeveloped faces. So, astoundingly beautiful women are hanging out not being popular at all, in middle school. They’re like golden retriever puppies- too much feet, too much cheekbones. They have to develop inner, creative resources.
They then tend to be more quiet, and more bookish, than other girls, in high school. This is regarded by more social, plainer girls, as stuck-up-ness. The more in-group girls gossip, and it circulates. Then, for whatever reason, every insecure guy thinks that this beautiful, quiet, reserved girl is entirely unobtainable, b/c obviously she OUGHT to be with someone on the football team, but there’s no guy hanging around her locker. So, obviously, she’s dating college guys, or some star football player from a better school.
Really. I have heard these statements from guys. And plain girls.
My best friends in high school were all models. They couldn’t get a date to save their lives. They were nice, humble, decent, sweet girls. Being short, and gregarious, guys would walk up and talk to me while I was hanging out with my friends, and then the guy would go claim to his friends that he was talking to the hot girl he liked. Then, occasionally, he’d get up the courage to ask ME- since I was what he thought he could bag. Except- go back to that short, gregarious, available-ish- I had more dates than I could keep track of. My professional model, totally gorgeous friend would have to keep track of who was showing up on my doorstep on Friday night. It was madness, utter, total madness.
And b/c some insecure guy couldn’t shut it down with me, he thought there was never a chance for a date with the incredibly hot, totally beautiful, completely sweet, nice, loving beautiful model. Who hung out with the other totally hot, totally beautiful, completely sweet,nice models on Friday, while frizzy-haired, big glasses, bitchy, shallow, neurotic me went out partying.
I’m not talking “girl pretty.” I’m talking pages of a magazine, beauty product commercials, cat-walk, heavy metal band video, cover of car magazine, date a producer, eventually, beautiful. Those were my friends.
Which is why I’m okay with pick-up artist stuff, mostly. Guys need to get over thinking beautiful girls are unobtainable.
I got to go to a convention, meet handsful of nice guys, with good jobs, interesting careers and hobbies, sports-cars, no venereal diseases (that not-dating thing) and hand them out to my friends.
I have no idea why nobody else does this. If I can do it, anyone can.
I have a friends that’s worse than 33-years old living at home with his parents. Not only did it take him 6 years to get through a 2 year associate degree program. But when he graduated he sat around and waited 2 years before he finally landed a job in his actual vocational training. And it’s not like he doesn’t make good money. He’s been saving for a house he says, but that’s been going on for a while too; like you’d think he coulda saved up 20% by now. But he sits at home and builds his PC and buys the latest games as soon they hit the shelf. I even found out that he dropped $1500 on just a video card; not a whole computer — just a video card. I like video games too but I sure as hell wouldn’t drop 1.5k on something that’ll possibly be obsolete in a year. And alas we figure why he hasn’t bought a house yet.