I have been reading Greg Lukianoff’s new book Unlearning Liberty: Campus Censorship and the End of American Debate on the violations of free speech on campus. The book goes beyond free speech to show how campuses are making criminals out of students who have done no wrong. In one chapter, Lukianoff looks at the lack of due process in sex cases on campus and finds that sexual harassment now includes “the broadest possible range of everyday activities” and makes us all guilty of sexual harassment. Campus judiciaries “have been pressured to lower due process standards for those accused of sexual assault and to broaden the definition of sexual misconduct.”
Naturally, most of the cases in point in the book are men. One in particular is Caleb Warner who was kicked out of school and banned from every North Dakota state campus for three years after he was found guilty by a campus tribunal of sexually assaulting another student. The police investigated and filed charges against the accuser for filing a false police report about the assault. Warner asked for a rehearing but was denied until FIRE got involved and exposed the University North Dakota in the Wall Street Journal. Imagine sending your son off to college not realizing that he has fewer rights on the college campus than a criminal in your state or federal court. But that’s the reality in today’s PC colleges. Get this book, read it and pass it on to your son as he heads to college. He needs to know what he faces as a male on the college campus.
After reading what happened to Caleb Warner (and the Duke lacrosse team and other males), there is no way I would return to college – not as a student, nor as an instructor (I won’t even return to my alma mater for reunions). I hope that Mr. Warner’s accuser received some stiff fines and jail time as well as a good deal of opprobrium from the local community for her false accusations. I hope that Mr. Warner can also get a hefty settlement from the University of North Dakota for its shameful, slanderous treatment of him.
Male muslims get all their due process and more at college. Men are better at violence than women.
So there’s one possible solution to the problem. And it seems to be the current preferred solution to all sorts of political issues — consider Bill Maher’s recent comments about the consequences of voting for Romney.
The Duke Lacrosse Team was mistreated. But take a step back, how would your parents have reacted if they found out you were at a drunken school party with strippers? My parents would have brought me home from school the next day and that would have been the end of them paying my college tuition. The missing part to the Duke story is what the parents of the “other” Lacrosse Team members did with their sons. How many sons were punished for being at a drunken party with strippers? How many parents took away credit cards? How many parents made their sons stay home for a semester so they could think about their behavior? How many parents simply said boys will be boys. There is the problem. Parents allow their sons (and daughters) to go away to college and misbehave badly. Good Christian boys would never run afoul of the so-called “feminist agenda” because good Christian boys would treat all women with respect and dignity.
The failure of those men to comply with your moral standards does not invalidate their rights. Leave this conversation to the adults.
I agree. The problem is that nearly all college campuses are controlled and run by Marxists, including mine. There is no debate, no intellectual give and take. Capitalism is evil and politicians virtuous. Wake up America, your children are being brainwashed.
Harry, grow up.
Where and when did you go to college? BYU in the 1920s?
I went to college at an urban campus in the 1980s. My parents knew that I drank alcohol at school and it was legal for me to do so. My parents and I drank alcohol together where and when it was legal to do so.
None of us saw anything shocking or evil in young adults drinking alcohol at social gatherings. There is nothing wrong with young adults drinking alcohol.
As far as strippers go, there were strip clubs about 5 blocks from campus. Sometimes groups — like sports teams or other clubs — would hire strippers to perform at parties. This was pretty unremarkable.
We could have a theological debate about it but I would argue that strippers are pretty small potatoes, morally speaking, compared to the normal rate of hooking up and sexual behavior on 90% of college campuses, then or now.
My parents — who were about as responsible and conservative as they come — knew better than to inquire about my drinking habits or whether I — as a young man — had ever seen a young woman’s bare lady bits.
As CCH points out, the behavior of the Duke Lax team — which is very unsurprising in my experience — is not remotely relevant to the treatment of the rape accusation.
Dear Chris
You have touched on a difficult subject and you are both correct and totally wrong. All people accused of a crime, even those who behaved as badly as the Duke Lacrosse Team, deserve due process. It was quite fortunate to see due process ultimately prevail in the Duke case. That said, it is quite sad that conservatives have not soundly condemned the boorish behavior of the Duke Lacrosse Team. Good college men (who are of age) may be entitled to enjoy a drink, but it is wrong for college sports teams to hold drunken parties where they hire strippers for entertainment.
What you later call “the normal rate of hooking up” is precisely the behavior that good people should no longer tolerate. “Hooking up” was rejected in the 50s and for most of the 60s. The world worked better then … and perhaps we need to rethink what we find acceptable.
No, dear idiot, Chris is correct full stop, and your moralizing is both tedious and irrelevant to the subject under discussion by adults.
Harry the feminist said :
That said, it is quite sad that conservatives have not soundly condemned the boorish behavior of the Duke Lacrosse Team.
So condemning those men for hiring a stripper (a consenting adult) is more important than condemning the woman who would send them to jail for 20 years on a false accusation?
And who later on turned out the be a murderer as well.
Keep writing, Harry. If more men see you as an example of how rotten and morally bankrupt modern US Christians have become, they will correctly stop going to the corrupt Churches (which are nothing more than a Goddess cult, as Harry has demonstrated).
It is stunning how much of a misogynist Harry is.
He thinks only men can be held responsible for their actions. He thinks women are simply not adults who should be held responsible for their actions. He says it is only a man’s fault if casual sex occurs.
He actually thinks women are children.
What a misogynist.
What is funny is that Harry actually thinks he is a ‘good Christian’, when he indeed is just a raging feminist who does not follow the Bible at all.
It was never part of Christianity to assume all men are evil and all women are children who are not capable of being adults responsible for their own actions. Harry is merely an example of how rotten modern Christianity has become.
Good chiristian boys wouldn’t run afoul of anything because they wouldn’t even be invited for coffee with the god Christian girls, who will laugh at them and call them a creepy virgin rapist when the aren’t around while getting on their knees for the lacrosse team.
I think I understand what you meant to say, but I must point out that, technically, those slutty whore bitches kneeling down to service the athletes are not and can not be in any way shape or form “Christian.” They are daughters of Belial, servicing sons of Belial, and they will all go to the same place.
That is what YBM means. The women are actually immoral sluts.
The point is, groveling goddess-cult fanatics like Harry actually believe that women are more moral than men. Look at his comments across this thread. This is exactly the type of immoral evil that has dominated churches today.
Then I suppose that this Christian man, who has tried to follow Jesus (though not always successful) hallucinated being the victim of a false rape claim by his girlfriend, when he never consumed alcohol around her, saw her naked, or even went on a date with her without a chaperon.
I suppose good Christian men who drive taxis to put themselves through college never get falsely accused of rape by women who want to avoid a fare.
I suppose that good Christian men are never mistakenly picked up by police when women make up a description of a rapist who never even exist.
Yaknow, if that world of yours was real Harry, I’d be interested in how to get there.
– banged all them hippie chicks back in the Sixties.
The ongoing campus sexual harassment craziness won’t stop until females get their turn to be swept up by accusations. And it can happen. Is Ms. Exposed-Cleavage harassing men students? You betcha! She has no right to stomp on their libidos. (And her visual harassment never shuts up until she covers up or leaves.) What about that female student wearing her My Vagina Is [whatever] button during the annual season for such feminist nonsense? Yep, she’s a harasser too. C’mon guys, file some complaints on ‘em. If sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander, then the meat slicer for the gander is worth trying out on the goose too.
I’m not advocating that anyone fight fire with fire, as a feminist has advocated. Rather, fight nonsense with consequences!
There is a dirty little secret that colleges and universities are desperately trying to keep secret: the epidemic of gay attacks on students, completely out of proportion to their numbers on campus. In a study of 162 gay men and 111 lesbians, 52% reported at least once incident of sexual coercion by same-sex partners. Gay men experienced 1.6 incidents per person; while lesbians experienced 1.2 incidents per person. More info: http://newsok.com/male-sexual-assault-victims-face-different-issues-than-females-experts-say/article/3718754
It’s not just charges of sexual harassment that are a problem on college campuses these days. What you are allowed to say has been seriously circumscribed too. And these issues are not confined to the United States. Ann Coulter has written about what happened to her when trying to honour a speaking engagement at the University of Ottawa here in Canada in 2010. http://www.anncoulter.com/columns/2010-03-24.html
Of course as an alternative young men could stop being such boors. They could stop cursing and swearing. They could stop making off color comments. They could stop their gossip. They could confine their comments in class and out of class to those kinds of comments that would be considered proper in an ordinary business environment. They could stop engaging in “friends with benefits” relationships. They could moderate their drinking. I am not suggesting that all college men behave badly, but a common thread in many stories about accusations gone bad is that students were drinking and unmarried students were engaged in sexual contact of some kind. Being polite and courteous goes a long way even in the current campus environment. Playing by the “old rules” (those informal rules followed before the 1960s) would also help. Single men should generally avoid being “alone” or in “compromising situations” with single women. Young men might try attending church, and confining their dating to other church members. Have they been having problems at Baptist Student Union meetings? Campus Crusade for Christ meetings? The Newman Center? The Lutheran student center?
Alternatively, you could shut up and never open your mouth again. But why should I get to decide how you exercise your freedoms? I may find you stupid, shallow, self-righteous, smarmy, slithering filth, but that doesn’t mean you should lose your right to speak. You may use your right poorly, but it’s yours to use. That’s what a right is.
Go back to school and learn these basics. Adults shouldn’t have to supply your deficiencies.
Gee, you sound just like an intolerant lefty.
What, for telling him that he has the right to speak, and should extend that right to others? For criticizing that which he chose to say? For pointing out that he has no adult comprehension of what a “right” is?
You’re either an idiot or a troll. I don’t care which. You have the right to say your piece. It’s a shame you don’t use it for anything other than lying crap.
It is stunning how much of a misogynist Harry is.
He thinks only men can be held responsible for their actions. He thinks women are simply not adults who should be held responsible for their actions. He says it is only a man’s fault if casual sex occurs.
He actually thinks women are children.
What a misogynist.
Actually I was trying not to be a boor myself. Of course young women should take care to watch what they say and do, but far from me to suggest that any particular young woman’s behavior was what we might call sl***ish. Women too should take care to maintain a sense of dignity and propriety. Through time folks generally believe that women have a civilizing influence on men. Perhaps today women should again strive to encourage the men in their lives to behave with civility and a sense of propriety.
hrough time folks generally believe that women have a civilizing influence on men.
Who believes this? Not anyone who actually has any knowledge of female psychology.
Men built civilization, and are the more civilized gender (I exclude you from the definition of ‘man’. You are part of the ‘third gender’).
It is clear that you think women are more moral than men, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Serial killers get thousands of love letter from women, simply because they are serial killers, you know.
You are precisely the reason the Church has no moral standing whatsoever. Modern Churches no longer teach anything as stated in the bible, and instead are merely centers of female supremacy and the slimy misandry that you espouse.
Read this to educate yourself about how ‘Social Conservatives’ are just slimy, lusty grovelers :
http://www.welmer.org/2009/09/13/defining-social-conservatism/
“So when I criticize social conservatives, I’m not thinking of good, religious people, but rather those hypocrites and liars who hide their base instincts in a cloak of righteousness. They are the Pharisees of today; the kinds of people who mask their avarice and lust with legal constructs and false piety. The PUA, who openly declares what he is doing and honestly explains why is morally of a far higher stature from my point of view.”
That is right, Harry. The pickup artist is actually far more moral of a person than you.
Dear Toads
I am truly sorry you believe this. Good people generally try to behave well and consider the effects of their own actions on others. The person you describe as “the pickup artist” does not consider the effect he has on others; he considers only his own immediate gratification.
I likewise do not remotely understand what you have to say about “the modern Church.” The Church has always taught Christ’s word. That Jesus is the road to salvation and that in your actions you should do unto others as you would they do with you. Jesus taught that for by grace are you saved through faith, it is the gift of God.
I am not sure what your quarrel is with the Church.
There are some “believers” who do “campaign” to have their view of sin written into law. Those are the folks who (to reference this thread) no only believe it is wrong for college boys to hire strippers, but would like to write laws that make it a crime to hire strippers (because it is wrong).
But there are other believes who think their time is better spent witnessing their faith. You do not need a law about strippers, because the faithful do not have time to waste hiring them, or at strip clubs. There are more important things to do.
I hope you can work to resolve your anger. My comments here were meant to point out that if the boys and girls at Duke (and at that age they are still boys and girls) behaved more like good Christian kids, we would not be talking so much about due process rights of accused rapists.
Harry,
Sorry I believe this? You are the one who believes a fiction that is blindly false. You simply have no direct experience with women, and certainly no knowledge of the Bible.
And yes, a pickup artist is far, far more morally superior than you are. You think men should not even get due process rights if a woman makes a false claim against them, for Christ’s sake. Sending an innocent man to jail for 20 years is acceptable to you, if it lets you grovel to feminists.
Harry, let me tell you the role you play in society.
Women want to have sex with pickup artists.
Pickup artists want to have sex with women.
Harry gets to pay the bills!
Everybody wins! Harry reaches his full potential (paying the bills for women who sleep with pickup artists), so he wins too.
Through time folks generally believe that women have a civilizing influence on men. Perhaps today women should again strive to encourage the men in their lives to behave with civility and a sense of propriety.
Harry, Queen Victoria has been dead for a long time. The men who gave women the vote in the US around 1919 can be excused for this form of idol-worship, but any man who does this now is a fool. A substantial number of women on college campuses today can’t wait to drop their thongs for the handsomest man they can find. They’ve been taught from infancy that whatever they want, they should get to have, and as soon as possible. They’ve been given special classes in school, special privileges in society, and pampered like no other group of human beings in history outside of a few Chinese emperors. Modern college women will gladly have sex with as many young men as they can spread their legs for, and demand “equality” all the while.
What the change in the law means is that these sluts are free to decide a day, or a week, or a year or longer later that they were “raped” when they realize that their herd of girlfriends are not impressed by the latest hookup. Or they can just pick some young man at random and declare him to be a “rapist” because they need an excuse for not attending class, failing an exam, missing a deadline.
You need to open your eyes to the real world. There are plenty of women out there like Karen Owen, and catering to their whims isn’t going to do anyone any good at all.
Harry
Of course young women should take care to watch what they say and do, but far from me to suggest that any particular young woman’s behavior was what we might call sl***ish.
One question: is Karen Owen, formerly of Duke University, a slut? Can you explain why or why not? She is far from the only one putting notches on her lipstick case.
Under the new proposed rules, she could have called any of the men she had sex with a “rapist”, and the onus would be on the man to prove he was not guilty of the crime. And since university hearings are not courts of law, there’s no right for a man accused to confront his accuser, nor any other Constitutional rights unless the university chooses to do so. “Kangaroo court” or even “star chamber” is not an outlandish label for the system in question.
Your worship of women is your business. But wishing for young men to be further marginalized in college is unjust, and affects other people. Therefore it deserves to be challenged.
There is a reason we remember Mary Magdeline. Was she the woman Christ saved from the stoning? Unclear. I have never met Karen Owen and certainly never spoken with her. I cannot speak to her motives or experience. But that does not matter. Karen Owen is entitled to the same respect that we would show any other woman. The fact that Karen Owen may yesterday have done something you consider improper, does not mean that today she did anything improper. The fact that she had a “hook up” yesterday does not mean she had another “hook up” today. If I ever have the pleasure of meeting Miss Owen, I intend to show her the same respect I show everyone else I meet.
I grew up in a church where the Minister taught the the Lloyd Webber show “Jesus Christ Superstar” was bad doctrine. The Minister was correct–JC Superstar is bad doctrine. That said, the Mary Magdeline parts are very useful for folks to think about men and women.
Harry, when you start showing some respect for the rights of the falsely accused, I might just start listening to you. Until then, you mistake bloviating for benevolence and gall for godliness. You are human garbage.
Yes, Harry, you are trying.
VERY trying.
Gee Harry, that would be why I never got married and have lived with lesbians.
its not PC campuses, its leftist campuses. this is what you get with marxism. every marxist country was or is repressive, you expect their college campuses to be any different?
College is a hostile environment for men at this time. My son is going to junior college, I told him to keep his head down and mouth shut if he wanted to get through with a minimum of trouble. If you are beneath notice and an anonymous part of the student body, you can escape with the minimum of abuse inflicted by women and faculty.
If that isn’t possible, the best solution is recording yourself. A continuous audio and gps record will keep you on your best behavior and also protect against false accusations. It may feel silly to do so in the land of the free, but when a woman can destroy your life with a word, having that proof is like having insurance.