With a public warning that the embassy in Cairo was under imminent threat from jihadists, the Marines charged with guarding that embassy were for all intents and purposed disarmed.
U.S. Marines defending the American embassy in Egypt were not permitted by the State Department to carry live ammunition, limiting their ability to respond to attacks like those this week on the U.S. consulate in Cairo.
Ambassador to Egypt Anne Patterson “did not permit U.S. Marine guards to carry live ammunition,” according to multiple reports on U.S. Marine Corps blogs spotted by Nightwatch. “She neutralized any U.S. military capability that was dedicated to preserve her life and protect the US Embassy.”
But she and her staff were quick to attack US free speech rights. No, wait, the ambassador wasn’t even in Cairo at the time. She was in Washington while her staffed embarrassed the United States in front of the entire world.
That’s how you end up with the black flag of Islam raised in place of the American flag, on 9-11.
Kinda reminds me of this:
http://2xstandard.blogspot.com/2012/09/facepalm.html
game over, man.
holy beirut marine barracks, batman!
gee Bryan, you act like this is a big deal.
Everyone knows it’s Bush’s fault for not stopping 9/11 and than invading Iraq. Bush started every bad thing that has happened in the world for the last 12 years.
obama is just trying to fix the damage. It could take 3 or 4 or 10 terms.
A left/liberal, non-Arabic female ambassador in an islamist country… is this a set-up?
Alright Marines, if we’re attacked you may use harsh language.
Don’t get carried away though.
Right?
Perhaps if those Marines could have had bubble machines and nerf launchers (too violent?)… or wait, even better, gave them flowers and told them to give peace a chance while playing “Imagine” loudly over the PA system… I bet that woulda done it!
Harsh language, are you kidding? Why, they might say something that offends someone, further provoking the mobs. That will not do.
Harsh words from the Marine guards to the rioters?
They would get them demoted and sent to sensitivity training.
Looks like the US was warned about upcoming 9/11 celebrations. Poor response and planing by the state department — Canned media response to blame the violence on some unknown film maker. That didn’t work for long, so it must be Bush’s fault.
It seems that this Administration wants the embassies guarded on the Beau Geste plan.
Remember the near-final scene? All but a few of the Legionnaires in the fort were dead, and the remnant propped the dead soldiers on the wall so that it would look to the marauding Arabs as if there were more defenders.
Let’s just hope the Romney campaign puts this to good use.
It looks like it won’t be Obama’s incompetance and anti-Americanism with regard to the economy that breaks him but his incompetance and anti-Americanism with regard to self preservation and national self respect.
I’m not sure I’d make a big deal about this. The Marines are not there to shoot trespassers, even if the trespassers are trashing the joint. They’re especially not there to start or escalate an international incident by machine-gunning foreign nationals. They’re there to protect embassy staff and the secret materials the embassy contains. I imagine the bullet-less Marines executed whatever emergency plan was in place for Cairo at the time, and executed perfectly. I know some of us are disappointed that the plan didn’t include a massacre to teach those screaming ragheads a lesson. Unfortunately, that’s not how diplomacy works.
Any US embassy around the world is considered US sovereign soil. Any attack on a US embassy is supposed to be viewed as an attack on the U.S.
So, in fact, the Marines ARE there to shoot trespassers if necessary. Remember, a US embassy is considered a PART of the U.S.
How would the Marines act if California was invaded by Islamic militants?
Anyone that would take away live ammo from ANY group of active US Marines is an IDIOT! They aren’t trained to be nice, they are trained to KILL people, and their damn good at it!
Well spoken JLB!
Diplomacy works the best when you speak softly and carry a big stick. Better pray the good guys have (and keep) the stick!
If there is an attack in California, not to worry. The ACLU would be right there to help out. The Nineth Judicial District would be there to back them. That’s all the ammo the’d need.
An OLD MARINE
How exactly are they supposed to protect the embassy staff without bullets? Once a crowd starts getting their freak on, they really don’t listen to reason very well. Lead (in 5.56mm and 7.62mm) applied with proper Marine precision is far more effective.
Do you believe for one moment that the “Arab Street” in Cairo (and especially, the muslim brotherhood agents inciting them) didn’t know that her Excellency had disarmed her guard? Of course, they knew. That’s why they felt secure in scaling the walls.
If she had ordered them to dress in full badass gear, ready for battle, and had let the word out that the Marines were fully armed, the mob never would have dared to trespass. The risk would have been too great and the skulking muslim brotherhood would have not have instigated this fiasco.
OK, Bugs, and if the people and information they were supposed to protect were threatened- say like at Bengazi (sp?), then what- still no ammo. Gee, if it were merely a matter of self defense?
If unarmed guards are called for- don’t want to harm any rioters- we should hire some OWsers. They work cheap, and there are better uses for Marines.
You might try checking out this information:
http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/88396.pdf
http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/152028.pdf
and exhibit 023 in http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/88322.pdf
Not saying you’re wrong, just that it’s more complicated than “Shoot the bastards!”
Bugs,
While I understand your points and am well versed with your references, one point your missing is: if the Marines were not allowed to carry ammunition in their weapons, the DSS placed the Marines in jeapardy which is a violation of 12 FAM 433.4-5 Circumstances Requiring Immediate Action, section (a). (http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/88396.pdf). If you see an armed guard standing at a gate, what level of force are you going to apply on them? You would come at them with the biggest weapons you could too mach their abilities. And how would it turn out if you got there and found them with water guns painted black? That is effectively what happened.
You also have a misconception about the use of deadly force. It is up to the Marines on scene to determine the need for deadly force, but if they aren’t equipped with the weapons to match their enemy, their efforts are futile. Once the enemy opened fire with guns and RPG’s, the Marines should have been able to return fire. That point at which deadly force is authorized is a very fine line, and may not develope into a sitation, as much as just happens without warning.
One thing that hasn’t been made clear is if they carried live ammo with them at thier post. Prior to the USS Cole attack, it was standard to carry unloaded weapons topside of ships, and required the authorization of a senior officer to load and engage. Often, the ammunition wasn’t issued, just kept in the locker. Alot of good that did. Now were getting back to that mentality, and it got Marines and Sailors killed.
No matter how bad we want peace, there are always people out there who want chaos. If were not willing to protect ourselves, we will lose. One reason why the people who run our country should have to have served in the military. They need to see first hand the threats that our soldiers face.
Bugs. Put your head back in the sand. Bullets are what gets us back home. I’d give up food for them.
Two second campaign sound bite for Romney campaign:”I support arming Marines”
If Anne Patterson doesn’t want armed Marines guarding her effectively, why have them there at all?
Why shouldn’t she trust to our “ally” to protect her? I’m sure Lara Logan can give her some useful tips.
They look nice and studly in their navy blue tunics and khaki trousers. Anne likes it that way.
Hmmm….I wonder which is going to result in a more peaceful approach by arab instigators.
Letting the world know the US Marines on guard at US Embassies are carrying unloaded weapons, or…..letting it be known that each embassy has a quad-50 in the courtyard and clearance to shoot to kill anything coming over the wall?
Sometimes ya just gotta bring things down to the simplest level before some folks get it.
Remember the “USS Cole” the sailors.\/marines did not have bullets to chase the beautiful people away from the boat. Oh, the beautiful people blew a hole into the side of the “USS Cole” and many sailors and marines. But that is okay because they are “BEAUTIFUL PEOPLE.”
GOD SAVE and remember “Our Father who art in heaven and hallowed be thy name……………. I believe in God the Father almighty………………….THE BEAUTIFUL PEOPLE HATE THESE WORDS.
These were the words that “Daniel Pearl” was reciting when the “BEAUTIFUL PEOPLE” SLIT HIS THROAT.
While sarcasm has its place, albeit low, truth has a place, too.
Daniel Pearl was Jewish and I find it odd that he would be reciting the Lord’s Prayer and Apostle’s Creed upon his death.
These exchanges should be honest, credible, truthful and factual. If you can’t contribute, get out of the pool.
There was only one place I walked guard duty with an unloaded weapon and that was in Boot Camp on P.I. It was explained to me that every Marine is a trained rifelman. What good is a rifel without Ammo? If they don’t want to be protected than they don’t need the Marines there. If they do want protection then issue the proper supplies to the Marines so they can do their jobs, and protect themselves.
Right on Little Brother. They would have more security with a box of rocks. These Numb Nuts in DC should have a little shot at military life and see what the troops on the “POOR” end have to put up with. Makes you wonder how many of them have spent a night in the rain and mud without whits sheets.
Marines were carrying loaded weapons. Strange how rumors like this get started and echoed through a series of increasingly unreliable sourcing.
“The Ambassador did not impose restrictions on weapons or weapons status on the Marine Corps Embassy Security Group (MCESG) detachment. The MCESG Marines in Cairo were allowed to have live ammunition in their weapons. The Ambassador and Regional Security Officer have been completely and appropriately engaged with the security situation. Reports of Marines not being able to have their weapons loaded per direction from the Ambassador are not accurate.”