It’s surveillance video inside the Sanford, FL police department. ABC News got ahold of it, here it is:
ABC says:
The surveillance video, which was obtained exclusively by ABC News, shows Zimmerman arriving in a police cruiser. As he exits the car, his hands are cuffed behind his back. Zimmerman is frisked and then led down a series of hallways, still cuffed.
Zimmerman, 28, is wearing a red and black fleece and his face and head are cleanly shaven. He appears well built, hardly the portly young man depicted in a 2005 mug shot that until a two days ago was the single image the media had of Zimmerman.
The most important question the video raises is, where are the wounds? Through his lawyer, Zimmerman has said that he suffered a broken nose and wounds on his head, one of which almost needed stitches. The video doesn’t show any of that. It’s possible that the broken nose only showed up in X-Rays later, but any laceration or cut close to requiring stitches would have been very evident.
To ABC again, for a partial explanation:
The initial police report noted that Zimmerman was bleeding from the back of the head and nose, and after medical attention it was decided that he was in good enough condition to travel in a police cruiser to the Sanford, Fla., police station for questioning.
His lawyer later insisted that Zimmerman’s nose had been broken in his scuffle with 17-year-old Martin.
In the video an officer is seen pausing to look at the back of Zimmerman’s head, but no abrasions or blood can be seen in the video and he did not check into the emergency room following the police questioning.
So that explains the lack of blood, sort of. Anyone who has had a cut that comes close to needing stitches though — and I have been in that position myself — knows just how bloody such a cut can get. You generally need a bandage to control the bleeding, and I don’t see one on Zimmerman.
So we have another twist: Did George Zimmerman suffer the wounds that he and the police reported that he suffered?
Update: Thanks to commenter Helen of Troy, here’s the Sanford police report. Here is the officer’s description of Zimmerman immediately after the shooting, and after the officer had disarmed Zimmerman. Click to enlarge.
Update: The Daily Caller takes a closer look.
“A police surveillance video taken the night that Trayvon Martin was shot dead shows no blood or bruises on George Zimmerman,” ABC News reporter Matt Gutman wrote, noting that Zimmerman told police “he shot Martin after he was punched in the nose, knocked down and had his head slammed into the ground.”
ABC News reported that Zimmerman appears uninjured in the video. But a still image from the video indicates what appears to be a vertical laceration or scar several inches long.
My brother busted his head on a brick wall when he was little and we didn’t notice scratchs on the back of his head until hours later, but he developed a nice lump. We don’t know how long he was at the scene before the police took him to the station and we don’t know what “kind” of head injury he sustained. We don’t know if the lumps on the back of his head is the injury or if that’s just how his head is shaped. Not everyone bruises right away, some people take a day. His nose probably would be swollen, but we can’t tell that from the tape. We also can’t tell if he has any marks on the back of his head because we’re not close up. We do know that the police report says he had blood on the back of his head and his nose was bleeding and he got aid from SFD at the scene. We also know, according to his lawyer, that he went to the hospital the next day and sent police photos of his injuries. Don’t sink to the liberal media’s level and reach for something that’s not there.
Asking a question based on observation is “sinking to the liberal media’s level,” even after I ripped them for dowdifying Zimmerman? Please — let’s keep a cool head and go where the evidence leads, or we’re no better than the media we all criticize.
Now, it has been a while since my “how we whites go about it when we keep the brothermans down” indoctrination back in indoc at Crackerville***, but it seems to me that the code was supposed to be you didn’t even get arrested as long as the body you produced was black. This guy looks arrested, so it seems the powers that be took it somewhat seriously and that this was not a replay of 1963 Mississippi redux.
Which then leads to a logical conclusion–injuries were noted, injuries were claimed, and this guy was actually arrested and an investigation done. My guess would be he actually had injuries of some sort, which probably helped lead to the decision not to charge originally, if nothing else perhaps based upon the “can I get a conviction” standard at the DA level. Real lawyers can add in more on that kind of process when homicide is involved.
I’d have to conclude Mr. Martin was not delivering a savage beating. On the other hand, how many hits are you supposed to take under the appropriate “stand your ground” law beore you can act? If basically a lot, then it wasn’t a “stand your ground” law, it was a “keep standing if you can, but don’t touch that gun” law, which basically is nothing more than a “a little bit of assault won’t hurt you” or “aggressors always get free hits” laws, which are not very reassuring to the physically smaller. .
***A long while, since of course there is no such thing. Segregation is two generations dead and moving onto a third.
I want to be clear on a point I made above because it is a logical extrapolation of the results those against the “stand your ground” law would achieve if they get their way and such laws are repealed: if you are attacked, and you have a gun, and you do not have the physical size or strength or ability to stop the attacker without use of the gun, but the blows the attacker are making are not life threatening–in that case then, you are, I guess, supposed to just ride it on out and maybe just hope someone bigger and willing to help arrives to pull the other guy off you. Just DON’T use that gun. It’s the highest principle.
To which I can only say–rape ain’t life-threatening either. Do they intend to tell the woman to also just ride it out until help arrives?
(And I don’t want to hear anything about “well, you’ll still be able to act in self- defense” and not be charged or sued. We just got finished running that experiment. It didn’t work. That is why “Castle doctrines” and “stand your ground” laws came back.)
Remember too, as far as ‘stand your ground’ is concerned, that it was the armed ZIMMERMAN who approached the unarmed Martin, not the other way round. If anyone was going to use the defence of ‘standing their ground’, it was probably Martin.
@Andrew Ryan…..according to testimony already given, Zimmermann DID follow Martin – but he didn’t approach him. It was Martin who approached Zimmermann.
Andrew Ryan–On the issue of who approached whom–the last time I checked, it was not a crime. Let’s say Zimmerman approaches and adks a question, but there is no weapon displayed. Crime or no crime? I’d say we are still at the no-crime level. Let’s say Martin attacks first because he’s being followed, out of fear. Crime? In my opinion, no. Stand your ground doctrine absolves him. Crime on Zimmerman’s part in shooting him? No. Stand your ground doctrine if he did not throw the first punch absolves him. The phrase is “tragic misunderstanding”.
Now let’s say Zimmerman approaches and inquiries as to Martin’s business and that Martin then throws the first punch because he is incensed at being followed. Crime? Yes. It’s an assault. Now let’s say he throws the first punch because he still fears Zimmerman after Zimmerman asks what Martin is doing. Crime by Martin? No. But let’s say that Martin in fact approached Zimmerman after Zimmerman turns back, if he did.. Crime when the first punch is thrown if thrown by Martin? Probably. Escalation of the situation that did not have to occur.
All the above is predicated by my (hopefully) reasonable belief that men with guns usually have no need to start fist-fights. Once calmer heads prevail, absent further evidence, I think this is going to go down as an unarmed man choosing to pick a fist-fight with one who was carrying concealed, and paying accordingly.
Finally, the blunt fact is that the left, after years of bitching about police enforcement in the inner cities and fighting things like laws on pan-handling, is going to have difficulties logically arguing that the act of following and/or approaching someone means automatic guilt on the part of the person doing so. Talk about a boomerang. Oh, they’ll do it, of course,, and wear their hoodies–but they don’t need to be given moral authority.
” I think this is going to go down as an unarmed man choosing to pick a fist-fight with one who was carrying concealed, and paying accordingly.”
We’ll see. All the ‘let us says’ are just conjecture – all we’ve got is the word of the guy who did the shooting. He claims to have been set upon, but so far there’s not much evidence of the damage one would expect from having your head smashed against the ground.
If we’re going on ‘what it looks like to me’, my answer is that it’s a guy with a gun, a grievance, and previous arrests for assault and domestic violence, being expressly told by the police to stay away; then he ignores that and approaches a far skinnier, younger guy who’s just trying to get home. Then the bigger, armed guy starts a fight and shoots the unarmed man.
Nothing I’ve seen contradicts that, and that seems no more conjecture than what you’ve said, and in fact better supported by the evidence.
Tragic misunderstanding is possible, but even there it comes down to Zimmerman’s fault, whether he was breaking the law or not – if he’d listened to the police then it wouldn’t have happened. The very reason the police told him to stay away is to avoid that kind of ‘misunderstanding’.
“…is going to have difficulties logically arguing that the act of following and/or approaching someone means automatic guilt on the part of the person doing so”
Who is arguing that? Not me or anyone else I know. The only assumption of guilt here was Zimmerman’s assumption that Martin was up to no good.
Stand Your Ground has no bearing on how many hits you’re supposed to take. That is covered under pre-existing self-defense law, that states you must be in reasonable fear of grievous bodily harm or death. Being hit in the head qualifies, since one punch could potentially result in brain stem damage, a very serious injury and possibly fatal.
This is part of the media’s misinformation program to confuse self-defense law with the enhancements provided by SYG.
For more information on Florida’s self-defense laws:
http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2012/03/26/trayvon-martin-opportunity-for-anti-
rights-media-to-attack-self-defense-laws/
http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2012/03/29/la-times-justifiable-homicide-originated-with-stand-your-ground/
The Point is we can’t count on the MSM presenting in an honest manner any video they purport to be relevant. Is the video what they say it is?
Asking BS questions is sinking to the level of the press. Are you asserting that the standard for self defense is to first suffer wounds that amateurs can spot in compressed low-reolution video taken after receiving first aid?
Not necessarily. Asking the question in this context can be construed as “let’s focus on determining the facts of the case.” That’s a call upon media to do its job and report the facts, rather than the rhetorical static that’s currently clogging the airwaves.
Zimmerman was treated by para-medics at the scene …they would have cleaned him up. How else do they check for the severity of the injuries without doing so?
I don’t know why some people have to promote the leftist view. I understand your comment to the first poster …I just don’t buy your argument.
I’m going to simply admit that, no matter how I peer at or enlarge this video, it’s too grainy for me (with admittedly rather bad eyesight) to discern injuries.
Helen of Troy’s addendum helps. I rather thought, from earlier reading, that the EMT’s cleaned him up; but others may think differently.
Frankly, I think it’s a case of people seeing what they want to see. It’s not helpful to put out every piece of material that can be found, especially when it’s not conclusive. How about we wait for the investigation to complete? I don’t know if the DA will decide to charge Zimmerman or not, but I know that I know far too little to even begin to pass judgement.
Video’s as phony as the Killian memo. ABC, probably willingly, bought a hoax.
snork – I saw the video on Drudge and commented on it in Bryan’s previous posting. I would not dismiss it so cavalierly. Let’s see if the SPD weighs in on its authenticity. Let’s not rush to judgment about this like the Leftist.
I am frankly troubled by the video. As facts became available, I tried to lay them out as best I could against Leftists who want to lynch Zimmerman and who insist on making up their own facts. For me, an important fact was Zimmerman’s injuries: a broken nose and a lacerated head. On that basis, it seemed to me that Zimmerman was being beaten to a pulp by Martin. Now I’m not so sure. That’s because I don’t see the lacerations unless the EMT guys put something on Zimmerman’s head to stop the bleeding. Also, I can’t tell anything about the nose, and I don’t see any bleeding there either, but it’s possible the police/EMT put plugs in his nose so it wasn’t bleeding. The police-report Helen of Troy supplied does indicate injuries, but it is possible they were not as bad as first claimed. There may be more to this story that has not emerged yet, such as that, somehow, Martin was aware that Zimmerman had a gun and was trying to wrest it away from him and it went off, and Martin bought the farm.
It doesn’t look like him, the weight is wrong, they deliberately cropped the date and time off. Look at about 34 sec, and you can get a glimpse of the date, and it looks like December. Somebody’s pulling a fast one. Not sure why.
The mug shot pic shown everywhere is a few years old, explaining the weight differential. If the video is fake then that will come to the surface pretty quickly – it would be easy to demonstrate its fakeness.
I think at this point the best outcome would be for the DA to announce “Due to the media circus surrounding this case it would be impossible for Mr. Zimmerman to receive a fair trail and we are not going to file charges.”
Best outcome for what? Not the best outcome for justice, whether he’s innocent or not. If he was truly beaten, there should be photographic evidence of his bruises, bloodstains. A broken nose would have swollen his face up. If Martin was above Zimmerman when he was shot, then blood would have fallen on the latter in a certain way. It should be easy enough to back up his story. So far though we’ve seen no such evidence.
Justice in this case? Maybe not, we don’t have enough information to say. Justice in general? Certainly. It needs to be made clear to these racist hustlers that their self-aggrandizing posturing is counterproductive. They need to be taught to allow the system to work and only in the case of demonstrable systemic failure are rallies and protests called for. Private parties offering bounties are simply and always unacceptable.
You seems to be making the common mistake of confusing lack of evidence with evidence of lack. The resolution of this video is insufficient to make any definitive claims beyond he has no visible injuries larger than ~1 inch (my best guess as to the resolution of the video). Human blood is a biohazard. The cops aren’t going to take him into the station until the bleeding is stopped and the blood on him is cleaned up, so we shouldn’t expect to see blood trails on his head. Swelling and bruising take time, and we don’t know when this video was taken in relation to the attack.
The “ABC Exclusive” tag covers much of his head in the scene by the squad car, but as he walks behind the car and towards the station door there is a definite dark area in the center of the bald area on the back of his head.
Ridiculous for ABC to say there are “no abrasions…” (and I’m not saying there are), but what else does one expect from ABC.
Did the PD take any photos of Zimmerman either at the scene or at the police station? You’d think they would in a homicide investigation. If so those would be far more detailed than the surveillance video, and would provide a better idea if there were or weren’t abrasions and what you would think would be a swollen nose — and from past experience, broken noses hurt, but if it was only a partial fracture there might be less pain (and in this case, there should be medical X-rays around to show the truth of that claim).
You’d have to be a conspiracy nut to believe the officer falsified the report to such a degree after Zimmerman was seen by so many other officers. It’s irresponsible for ABC to say there are no marks in a video that is blurry as hell. In any case, there is clearly something on the back of his head at the 1:06 mark. What is it? Who knows. Again, it’s blurry as hell. We know that by the time he got to the police station, he wasn’t drenched in blood. That’s about all this video tells us.
A video of Trayvon arriving at the morgue, would have proved that he wasn’t dead, just sleeping.
Snark aside, isn’t it interesting how the document that *could* answer so many questions has not been released?
Someone should ask the PD why the autopsy results haven’t been released. Want to bet the family is blocking the release?
Seriously? We are supposed to see something or not in that grainy video? Even if the stupid ABC logo wasn’t right over his head for half the video, I can’t tell hair from bruises.
The last I heard, this case is going to the Grand Jury on April 10, 2012. At that point the good citizens of the State of Florida will have their first opportunity to listen to the DA, and, perhaps, other witnesses as to the bona fides of this case. If they decide to issue an indictment, the case should go forward to a trial for whatever the indictment charges. The DA will have no choice. On the other had, should the Grand Jury find that there is insufficient evidence or that the evidence available favors Zimmerman, that will be the end of it. Let’s just hang out and see what happens. Hopefully, the State of Florida will be able to keep him alive that long.
This should have been done as a matter of course. Here in Texas, it’s standard in most counties (like ours) to have the grand jury review cases of possible self-defense. Doing so removes any suspicion of favoritism. It’s the justice system telling the public: “We don’t care how justified the evidence makes it look. We’re going to let a group of citizens review the case and decide if we made the right decision.” Avoids this media circus.
“We’re going to let a group of citizens review the case and decide if we made the right decision. Avoids this media circus.”
I don’t think with the Justice Brothers on the scene that this is going to go away anytime soon. This is going to join the anals of “Bush Stole the 2000 Election” as a Truth that will live far into the future.
My only concern is that should the Grand Jury find this to be a Justified shooting will the Feds move in and Sacrifice Zimmerman on the Altar of Political Correctness.
Zimmerman was treated by para-medics at the scene …they would have cleaned him up. How else do they check for the severity of the injuries without doing so?
I don’t know why some people have to promote the leftist view. I understand your comment to the first poster …I just don’t buy your argument.
“Zimmerman was treated by para-medics at the scene …they would have cleaned him up.”
Where are the plasters or bandages then? Where’s the signs of swelling around the nose?
“I don’t know why some people have to promote the leftist view”
One might as well ponder why some promote the ‘rightist view’, though I don’t even see why this is about right or left.
If you are questioning bandaging to the back of his head, there may have been no need for bandages if the bleeding had stopped, and in face placing bandages would likely be problematic given that Zimmermann had hair. A bandage just won’t adhere properly unless you are willing to shave the back of his head – and if the injuries had stopped bleeding then there have been no need for the bandages at all.
Regarding his face, I doubt he simply laid there supine and not struggling back with a 6′-2″ tall attacker on top of him punching at his face. Most likely he would have raised one or both arms to block the blows – which would have provided some protection for his face but not have protected the back of his head from being smashed into the ground.
As for breaking his nose, the paramedics would probably not have definitively stated it was broken unless it was obviously crooked. Their job is to stabilize and provide immediate care, not set bones or provide indepth tretment without the benefit of x-rays and such. On the other hand, it could easily have been broken but taken a while to swell up, but it would still be broken and painful. As for bruising, I can say from personal experience that bruises often won’t show up until a day or so after the injury.
The video is nothing more than a leftist news organization trying to reinforce their preferred narrative when it started coming out just bhow much trouble Martin had been getting into recently. Information that completely undermined the narrative that he was just an innocent child…..
Another possible answer to “where are the bandages?”
http://www.firstaidsuppliesonline.com/nav.pl?cat=NavAntiseptic&prod=280540
Jeff Gauch – Terriffic find – that may explain it.
Bryan – Whatever you did, I am able to see the comments now, thanks.
In many cases of broken noses, bandaging may not be indicated. Injuries are graded on a scale, usually 1-3. One means damage but no tearing. Two means some tissues were partially torn. Three means some tissues were torn to the point of separation. Broken bones can be splinted to aid healing. Lacking bone in much of the nose, splinting may not help. So if Zimmerman had say a 1.5 to 2 nose injury, it could be called broken (fractured) and not benefit from bandaging. After stopping the bleeding, if the tissue is relatively stabilized, they may leave it be.
You know what’s really amazing? How rapidly this video appeared as an “exclusive”—when the video of Barack Obama at the Rashid Khalidi dinner is still under lock and key.
That Khalidi dinner video must be explosive as hell.
Daily Caller has a still that clearly shows the wounds. And the pdf police report indicates Zimmerman was bleeding from the head wound and nose and was cleaned up before he was taken to the police station.
It’s a mistake to rely on anything about this case you happen to see on ABC.
Citation please?
Here’s the link: http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/29/police-surveillance-video-of-zimmerman-may-show-head-injury/
In fairness, Daily Caller caption says it “may be an injury” to the back of Zimmerman’s head.
Here’s the link to the police report which notes Zimmerman’s injuries and states they were cleaned up before he was taken to the station:
http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/Twin%20Lakes%20Shooting%20Initial%20Report.pdf
If I remember correctly, wasn’t there a mention in the report about grass stains on Zimmeran’s shirt? If the fight occurred on grass and not pavement it is possible that the grass softened the blows enough that the skin wasn’t lacerated badly but could still be enough to really hurt his head.
perry1949 – I was thinking the same thing. Do you or anyone else have a speculation about how Martin knew that Zimmerman had a gun?
So Bryan. What are you suggesting? That there’s a big fat conspiracy to cover up the fact that Dick Cheney was hunting in the neighborhood, and actually shot Martin? What’s the point of all of this?
We’re already in Alex Jones territory, so out with it already.
You know that they us what is called steri-strips alot and they are not easily seen at first glance. So the paramedics could have used them on his head after they cleaned him up. I know that paramedics carefully clean a would before bandaging them so as to lower the risk of infection especially if the victim will not be seeking attention at the hospital. Just saying…..
Here’s Bob Owens’ take on the ABC video. http://www.bob-owens.com/2012/03/abc-news-doctors-zimmerman-video-to-pedal-false-story-in-trayvon-martin-case/
Told you to ignore anything abc says about the case.
Same thing holds for MSNBC
I am astounded with all of the defenders of a murderer – just amazed you can look yourselves in the eye. Reading your comments simply tell me that your souls are barren and empty. Just absolutely void of any compassion and humanity – and all to defend a member of your cult.
I get the distinct impression Satan is ready and waiting for your arrival, surely God wants nothing to do with you. I weep for your children when they learn how you handled yourselves during this time – they will be disgusted your allegiance to the tribe is more important than simple justice. The Afterlife will not treat you kindly.
Progress — at least you didn’t use your standard “And all because a black man was elected president” line. Was the macro key stuck or something?
Here’s the thing: Neither you nor anyone else here knows that Zimmerman is a murderer. Just about everyone here agrees that an investigation is warranted. Lynch mobs, however, are not warrented. So where is your criticsm of the Black Panthers for putting a bounty on a innocent-until-proven-guilty man’s head?
Heh hee…..your handwringing really made my day! Just too funny.
Oh wait, you were being serious!?
Bwahahahahaahhhhhhaaaaaaaaa….lololololol……….stop it, I’m dying here!
Bryan – Apparently Zimmerman had an earlier brush with the law. Here’s the link: http://rollingout.com/culture/george-zimmerman-son-of-a-retired-judge-has-3-closed-arrests/
On the other had, should the Grand Jury find that there is insufficient evidence or that the evidence available favors Zimmerman, that will be the end of it.
One would hope, but with the buildup, hype, hoopla and anger stoked by the media and “civil rights” groups and race hustlers, there is a high likelyhood of violence if the Grand Jury favors Zimmerman.
Various thoughts:
Head wounds bleed ferociously at first, but stop rapidly. They are not like wounds elsewhere.
So, the medics clean him up, and they use a spray or the new, unobtrusive bandages. The nose gets plugs to stop any bleeding. Nose bleeds are proportional to the amount of damage.
Martin brought fists to a gunfight. Unsurprisingly, he ended up dead, doubtlessly saving taxpayers much money in the long haul.
BTW, whatever happened to inquests after a shooting. Why do we use indictments to do that job? Why involve lawyers, and the expense of them?
And yes, ABC lied. Race-hustling helps the blacks turn out in an election year for Obama. It does not matter if it turns out to not be true. The truth matters not at all. Not one little bit.
“Martin brought fists to a gunfight. Unsurprisingly, he ended up dead, doubtlessly saving taxpayers much money in the long haul.”
The GOP on display.
Putting a bounty out on George Zimmerman. No objection from the President, Atty Gen. or anyone in the media.
The Left on display.
And wearing hoods? I thought only the KKK did that.
Another thing I have been thinking about is this whole claim regarding the lack of blood stains and how mystified the left is over the apparent lack of such evidence on Zimmermann.
Ballistics are an odd field of study, as bullets are supposed to perform a certain way based on known variables, but when those same bullets are used in the field they can act quite differently.
Anyway, it would appear that Zimmerman used a 9mm handgun. This bullet is extremely fast but has a small cross-sectional area, and is usually clad in some type of jacketing material. It may even have been a full metal jacket round since these are more reliable – but have zero expansion properties.
Based on this, it could well be that the entry would was no larger than the size of a pen or pencil. However, they hydrashock value of this high speed round would have created shock waves radiating outward from the path the bullet took in passing through the body. This shockwave causes extensive damage and death. If it were some variety of hollowpoint bullet, then the exit wound would have been substantially larger than the entry wound.
End result could be a very small opening for the entry would that you could cover with a fingertip, but a very large exit wound on the side opposite Zimmerman that would have bled profusely. If Zimmerman got out from under Martin immediately then it would not be a shock that he had very little of Martin’s blood on his clothing.
As example, go back to 1963 and look at the photos of Jack Ruby assassinating Lee Harvey Oswald. There is a man standing next to Oswald wearing an almost white suit with nary a speck of blood on him even though he is literally elbow to elbow with Oswald.
Same effect.
If anyone is interested in ballistics, there are books out by two former law enforcement agents (LEOs, police, cops) named Evan Marshall and Edwin Sanow that delve deeply into the subject. In addition to tests with ballistic gelatin, their studies include data from hundreds of actual street shootings (they were both cops, remember.) Ballistics is a practical matter for cops. Their books are available on Amazon. No, I’m not flogging a product and don’t know the authors. I do know their reporting is reliable.
Yes, what Scott says above is generally correct and would likely be the case for a self-defense close range shooting with a 9mm. Until some actual information from the authorities in question comes out, we are left with best guesses and inaccurate media reports and fuzzy video. I hope the grand jury findings are not sealed.