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Spengler

What Happened in Ukraine?

March 5th, 2014 - 4:45 pm

European media are reporting the leak of a taped phone call between the Estonian Foreign Minister and European Community foreign policy chief Lady Catherine Ashton alleging that the same snipers killed demonstrators as well as security forces during the Maidan Square uprising. The Estonians are no friends of Putin–quite the contrary. Russia and Estonia have been bitterly at odds for years. Russian stated media posted the call on YouTube. Presumably they got the tape from the Russian spy agencies.

Writes the London Guardian:

A leaked phone call between the EU foreign affairs chief Catherine Ashton and Estonian foreign minister Urmas Paet has revealed that the two discussed a conspiracy theory that blamed the killing of civilian protesters in the Ukrainian capital, Kiev, on the opposition rather than the ousted government.

The 11-minute conversation was posted on YouTube – it is the second time in a month that telephone calls between western diplomats discussing Ukraine have been bugged.

In the call, Paet said he had been told snipers responsible for killing police and civilians in Kiev last month were protest movement provocateurs rather than supporters of then-president Viktor Yanukovych. Ashton responds: “I didn’t know … Gosh.”

It’s a lead story on Der Spiegel’s main German language news page and extensively covered elsewhere. It raises the question: to what extent was Maidan Square the triumph of Western-looking lovers of democracy (surely true to some extent) and to what extent was it an intra-oligarchical mob war (surely true to some extent)?

Not a word in the US media yet, judging from a Google News search.

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All Comments   (17)
All Comments   (17)
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I'm sure Snowden and his allies, toadies, and supporters will be denouncing the interception of this phone call any minute.
45 weeks ago
45 weeks ago Link To Comment
Even big shots can fall for disinformation during a conflict. Regardless of the truth or fiction in this bugged conversation, the West still has a strong interest in keeping Putin's goons out of the former Soviet republics and satellites that broke free.
46 weeks ago
46 weeks ago Link To Comment
X-Files:

In terms of legality under international law, what is the inherent difference between Russia's occupation of Crimea and NATO bombing of Serbia on behalf of Albanian separatists in Kosovo?
46 weeks ago
46 weeks ago Link To Comment
The difference is that Serbia had no internationally recognized borders, it was only a self-proclamed region of Yugoslavia in a war with its neigbours. Ukraine has these borders and Budapesht memorandum signed by US, UK and Russia as guarantors of its sovereignity ant territorial integrity. It still was a stupid policy to support Kosovo insurgents, but not a violation of international law.
46 weeks ago
46 weeks ago Link To Comment
X-Files:

Is Svoboda more or less neo-Nazi than Croatia's HDZ?
46 weeks ago
46 weeks ago Link To Comment
I wonder how credible many Western citizen are to transparent lies of Putin's propaganda and desinformatiya campaign. What now is going at Russian television is even more blatant than Goebbels ever did. I was hearing Soviet propaganda for more than half a century, but such blatant and egregious lies I hear for the fist time in my life - all after Ukraine invasion.
47 weeks ago
47 weeks ago Link To Comment
Credulous, of course.
47 weeks ago
47 weeks ago Link To Comment
I wouldn't be surprised. Ukraine is known for fake protest groups made up of paid actors, even to the point of obviously being fake, like 'FEMEN.'

Also:
"He was Ukrainian. He told us why he had left his native country a few years before: Everyone there was corrupt, nothing was possible without bribery, the opposition was as bad as the government, and all political demonstrations, which were frequent even then, were entirely bogus. Indeed, political demonstrations had become a form of social security, the political system’s corrupt and vastly rich oligarchs paying a small daily subvention to the otherwise unemployed who agreed to demonstrate in their favor."

http://takimag.com/article/the_wisdom_of_a_ukrainian_plumber_theodore_dalrymple#axzz2vC2V23YV
47 weeks ago
47 weeks ago Link To Comment
It all reads a lot like the lead up to the invasion of Poland that began WW2...all sorts of phony provocations and the like. The big difference is that there is no German army to gobble up half of the Ukraine.
47 weeks ago
47 weeks ago Link To Comment
One wonders if the Germans, whose panties are in a bunch over the NSA, have noticed that these cell phone intercepts are coming from Russian intelligence.
47 weeks ago
47 weeks ago Link To Comment
Everyone spies on everyone else. It's an insult to be not spied upon, because that means you aren't important. Snowden's crime was in making public our spying on others. Now, was it done out of shock discovering that from a hopeless naivete or was he already a turncoat is something I don't know at this point.

This doesn't excuse the NSA's hoovering all of our electronic communications.
47 weeks ago
47 weeks ago Link To Comment
Not Putin's boys creating the pretext to intervene?
47 weeks ago
47 weeks ago Link To Comment
Anything's possible in that snake pit.
47 weeks ago
47 weeks ago Link To Comment
Not only possible, but absolutely inevitable. I read Russian papers and watch TV, and never in my long life I witnessed such blatant lies and Goebbels-like propaganda. If you believe a single word from Russian propaganda sources I have a nice bridge in Brooklin to sell you.
46 weeks ago
46 weeks ago Link To Comment
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