Jordan’s King Abdullah Threatens to Shut Down Egypt’s Economy
Speaking at a private meeting this week, Jordan’s King Abdullah warned that he had “bargaining chips” to use against the Muslim Brotherhood, which he denounced as a “new extremist alliance” in the Arab world. The news site AI-Monitor today translates a report from al-Hayat, citing sources from the meeting. “Rhe Jordanian monarch was full of reproach for Egyptian President Mohammed Morsi, who hails from the Muslim Brotherhood,” al-Hayat wrote. “The king added that the Egyptian leadership had ‘marginalized the Jordanian role during the Israeli-Palestinian negotiations to stop the recent aggression on the Gaza Strip.’”
The Muslim Brotherhood has targeted Jordan’s monarchy as the next domino to fall after Egypt. At the Dec. 10 meeting, King Abdullah accused Egypt of economic sabotage.
The king said that “Jordan was severely damaged as a result of frequent interruptions of Egyptian natural gas, which cost the state treasury about 5 billion Jordanian dinars [$7.04 billion],” stressing that the interruption of gas ”is the real reason behind the economic crisis plaguing the country.”
Under previous agreements with the Egyptian authorities, Jordan used to import 80% of its gas needs for the production of electricity, which equates to a daily amount of about 6.8 million cubic meters of imported gas. However, the pipeline which supplies gas to Jordan and Israel was subsequently the target of frequent bombings.
The Jordanian monarch warned that his country would retaliate:
King Abdullah II said that “Amman has bargaining chips through which it can send messages to Cairo, including the fact that 500,000 Egyptians are working in Jordan. Moreover, the kingdom is the only passageway for Egyptian vegetables being exported to Iraq, and tens of thousands of Egyptians working in the Gulf states are using the Nuweiba-Aqaba waterway in their travels.”
…Other official sources talked about the arrest of thousands of Egyptian workers who have breached the conditions of their residency in the past two weeks, as well as the deportation of about 1,900 of them to Egypt, according to Jordanian Minister of Labor Nidal Qatamin. He said his country is not targeting Egyptian laborers, saying that the deportation decisions resulted from “violations of the usual procedures and applicable laws.” Remarkably, according to official sources, of the 500,000 Egyptians working in Jordan, approximately 320,000 have violated the conditions of their residency.
It is unlikely that Jordan would take on Egypt without strong backing from Saudi Arabia. A further 1.7 million Egyptians work in Saudi Arabia and an additional 500,000 in Kuwait. The Egyptian diaspora is the last thing holding up Egypt’s economy. Workers’ remittances stood at $18 billion in 2010, according to the World Bank, or about half of Egypt’s present $36 billion trade deficit. The expulsion of Egyptian workers from the Arab monarchies would have catastrophic impact on the disintegrating Egyptian economy. Two million Egyptians worked in Libya before the civil war, but many fled the country earlier this year.
As it is, President Morsi was forced to postpone negotiations on a proposed $4.8 billion loan from the International Monetary Fund, after scrapping a proposed tax increase that the IMF considered a condition for the package. With a government budget deficit at 11% of GDP and a trade deficit at 16% of GDP, Egypt must cut expenditures to survive financially. No Egyptian government, though, appears capable of persuading a population half of which lives on less than $2 a day to accept austerity.
“…a population half of which leaves on less than $2 a day to accept austerity.”
Leaves of green, leaves of brown, leaves that fall to ground.
This is pretty extraordinary. As a descendant of the prophet, King Abdullah of Jordan has a much greater historical claim to the obedience of Muslims than the Muslim Brotherhood or the Egyptian government.
Excellent point.
A good illustration of the differences between a traditional/moderate Islamic state and a radical Islamic state.
Traditionalists/moderates don’t have to be truly moderate in the Western sense (ex. Czech Republic, Sweden, Costa Rica), be free of pathologies, or have great long term prospects, but there is still a million miles between them and the radicals.
Ben, regardless of whose claim is more legitimate, the fact of the matter is without a true reformation of Islam there will be continuous warfare – economic and blood letting – due to the inherent relationship between Islam and Blood.
Westerners can’t seem to grasp this basic concept and it will be the death of the west too. As such, Prof Paul Eidelberg must be listened to before it is too late for western civilization, let alone this tribe or that – http://adinakutnicki.com/2012/10/12/calling-for-an-islamic-reformation-via-strong-american-leadership-cold-war-messaging-why-excellence-morals-matter-commentary-by-adina-kutnicki/
It’s willful ignorance. Westerners refuse to see Islam for what it is. A strong-man social system. Like the mafia.
“Like the Mafia”? I think the “Mafia” is MORE principaled than Islam. It’s a BACKWARD RELIGION for a bunch of BACKWARD PEOPLE founded by a MURDERING PEDOPHILE with WORLD CONQUEST as its focal point.
Amen Bob,however it’s hard to believe that we have this POS in a white house that says in the UN ” the future shall not belong to those who slender the prophet of islam” Amazing he’s still there. The word impeach comes to mind.
I think gangster ideology comes closer to it. Gangs require the total allegiance of their members, in return for which they allow their members to rob, rape, despoil and kill non-members. That is precisely how Islam was able to displace or co-opt the original occupants of the regions it dominates.
Islam is only an ancient, ongoing, extortion-racket CRIME syndicate, exactly like the Mafia, except for one or two tiny details: the only “religious” part in it, is where they say:
“God told us to commit these crimes!”
(Capisce?)!
And also: the Mafia is relatively sane compared to islam – ever hear of any Mafiosi suicide bombers? EXACTLY! They both enjoy the predatory parasite’s credo of us-versus-them and might-makes-right, but there’s no delusive afterlife component in the Mafia, to swindle it’s members out of their cuts of the take here on earth!
King Abdullah’s remarks were brave, to be sure, especially considering the large contingent of Palestinians who have emigrated there and weakened his Bedouin base.
There are Muslim states in which people live peacefully among cultures. Iran used to be one.
In general, Islam is in the fourteenth century of its existence. Consider Christian Europe at the same age, with its array of dukedoms, principalities and the rest, and a very powerful Vatican state, which sent Imams everywhere to assist the ruler to keep his people in line.
Indeed, there will have to be the development of a middle class, a Renaissance and a Reformation before Muslims will have their version of the Age of Enlightenment and the development of Muslim philosophers able to inform among the educated classes of its people of a Muslim philosophy based Republic.
Remember as well that there are two major branches of Islam with which we are dealing. They differ in many ways, the most important one of which is the relationship between religious and secular in society.
That is the absolute worst kind of analogy.
First off: today is the era of Moon landings and iPhones.
For your analogy to hold, Christiandom, centuries ago, would’ve had such knowledge all around them — and then stayed stuck in a Neolithic morality.
The opposite occurred. The minute real facts in evidence undercut dogma — the dogma was thrown over.
Islamists hold to their dogma at every turn — and murder those, especially those, who lead the way out of the darkness.
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Islam, uniquely, has proscriptions against EVER changing that dogma, on pain of death.
And, Mo’ is an anti-Christ. Whereas Jesus preached peace and tolerance; Mo’ insists upon extreme violence, demands cruelty.
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Your analogy is a kin to equivocating between the IDF and the Wehrmacht — because they both operated tanks and aircraft.
Spare humanity of further dis-information.
Islam is not like medieval Christianity. There is no count-down clock to sanity embedded into its creed.
If it has any analog it is Shintoism, with which it shares an astounding list of common traits.
1) Death for the Caliph/Emperor while fighting is the supreme ideal of death — to be followed by the highest Heaven.
2) The Big Man is allowed unchecked despotic powers, both in peace and war.
3) Suicide is religiously sanctioned, particularly suicidal combat. ( That’s a far outlier among creeds. )
4) Big into poetry. The Koran is structured as a poem. Indeed, Arabic, past and present, is overrun with poetic structures and cant. Imperial Japan expected every Samurai to be a poet. Whether they could pull it off is irrelevant.
5) Phobic WRT Christianity. The Shintoists never permitted the Jesuits free reign. Instead, for the most part, they were restricted to Hiroshima. It became their only port open to trade with the West. (Shogunate era) ( Ironic, no? )
6) And both hold to a belief that one fine day their crew will own and operate the whole planet, entire, which state to be solely attained by bloody conquest.
7) That their sacred shrines/ cities — by force of the deity — can NEVER be occupied by the other guys/ infidels/ impure of blood… the universal them.
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One last note.
Shintoism died in an afternoon. Once the Americans ruptured point #7 the grip of the Shinto priesthood evaporated like a morning’s dew.
Islam’s fate is to follow Shintoism into the dustbin of history. It will be by point #7 that it dies — at a stroke.
For both are triumphalist creeds, too. (point #6) Thus they feed on battlefield success as theocratic proof and the reverse as a rebuff.
After fourteen centuries, we know that waiting it out, the common hope, is utterly in vain.
This American is getting tired of cries for “American leadership for an Islamic reformation”, or other even remotely cash-related pleas. Nothing, simply nothing, could be more oxymoronic. Look only as far as Iraq and Afghanistan….they’d laugh out loud at such an idea.
Who was it in Britain, their Foreign Secretary Hague?, who just recently had the chutzpah [can't think of a ruder/better-sounding/meaning-word in English] to ask for American “Leadership” in the Middle East….I forget the specific context….it makes no difference, anyway. Can anyone the Middle East be held in less regard than Americans just now?…..unless, of course, we’re aiming the dollar-hydrant in their direction.
The very idea of the plea…..after how many centuries?… of British [..and French] intimate influence in that awful area. Review “Sykes-Picot” again.
Many in the Middle-East would have had just about enough of Obama’s leadership in the region. I would imagine the administration is already funding democracy activists – sorry, I mean The Muslim Brotherhood, in Jordan, much like they did in Egypt. The next move will be to tell King Abdullah he has to go, for the good of a democratic Jordan of course.
It doesn’t matter because islam demands that any muslim leader faithfully rule by shariah law alone.
If the King of Jordan is seen to standing in the way of the Caliphate it doesn’t matter what his bloodline is.
What caliphate?
The Iranians. They’re behind most of this.
Not nessesarily, there are three candidates for the next Chaliphate: Leading them is The house of Saud, next Achmadhi najad in Iran, and a distant third is Turkey, trying to recapture their leading place in the Islamic world that they lost following Germany twice. AS I tell my friends, the Ubers at the top dont like each other and this is the common mans best hope.
Are you kidding? The 57 states Obama made the inside joke about – the OIC (Organization of Islamic Cooperation). Read any speech made by a Muslim Brotherhood leader. All they seem to do is talk about killing Americans and Jews and bringing about a new caliphate.
Jordanian and Saudi kings must see the writing on the wall. The Muslim caliphate is near victory. When the goals of Al Queda became clear after 9/11 it seemed like an anachronistic fantasy. Now it is only a question of which areas are to be shia or sunni dominated and that is easy to predict.
There is only one thing the US can do to try and reverse the tide and that it to attack Iran. Not a prolonged agony of buildup and frantic diplomacy or some sort of nation building. The attack would need to be sudden, swift and of such ferocity that everyone will be stunned and shocked at the power. Iran should have not only no nuclear anything but no Navy, Air Force, or Missile power. Its leadership would need to be decapitated. Then we just stop and go back to our bases.
That will never happen. Instead Iran will get its nukes followed by Egypt and Saudi Arabia. Once they have worked out their differences the nuclear weapons will be the final key to the liberation of Jerusalem. Allah will see to it that it will all work out if the faithful are true. Money is not important.
What would be the last act of a dieing Israeli state?
What caliphate is this?
Re: “What caliphate is this?” – The nascent resurgent one you’re trying to hide from us! Right now, it’s called “The Arab Spring.” See, the Caliphate is official islamic doctrine, and it’s inevitable, since, when all sovereign national countries (held by islam to be merely temporary, man-made false idols) have been ultimately rendered meaningless by the universal application of sharia law, they will all be replaced by the globalone-world moslem ummah.
After all, if everyone’s ruled by “God’s Law,” sharia, there’ll be no need to elect or endure and man-made governments to make laws for their own regions – right?
IT is estimated that the saudis already have at least 50 nuclear warheads.
I’m not so sure that the monarchies are about to fall. If Saudi Arabia and Kuwait bounce the Egyptian foreign workers and replace them with Pakistanis, for example, Egypt will collapse.
Bangladeshis are less expensive, still.
What is happening is that the Egyptian contract laborers are no longer solicited.
Those currently in the Gulf are being rotated home with the least fuss possible.
Kuwait famously turfed out the Palestinian Arabs a generation ago.
Something like that is sure to happen as Morsi pollutes the Egyptian brand.
Egypt is also badly vulnerable to any bad harvests, true or otherwise, in the Russian Federation, Ukraine and Kazahkstan. The U.S. Midwest drought shutting down the Mississippi to barge traffic and reducing aquifer irrigation in Nebraska and Kansas is not going to help global food prices either.
Do not forget ethanol from corn
I guess I’ve gotta ask – if a government tries to impose “austerity” on people who live on less than $2 a day…when will we start seeing people starve to death? Alternately, when will wee see large movements of Egyptian refugees pushing into sub-Saharan Africa or the rest of the middle east?
This Spring should see an uproar in both Egypt and Iran. The wolf is at the door.
Fulsome food riots don’t happen until the cupboard is truly bare.
At which point, events break crazy in a hurry.
Food riots triggered the Russian Revolution of 1917, the French Revolution… and many another.
The MENA food riots triggered the Tunisian Revolution of 2011.
That such stringencies would trigger both food riots and political upheaval was predicted by yours truly years ago: late 2010.
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Because of holidays and weather, one should reasonably expect events to run riot between January and May, 2013. After April, things start to get so hot that Arabs shift over to nocturnal living. ( Iraq, KSA, Kuwait, Jordan, Egypt, Libya and Syria ) It’s hard to co-ordinate a revolution in the dark.
BTW, expect the power grids in such states to go dark.
Yes, but “North Korea on the Nile” and, if I may, “North Korea with oil and with a rapidly advancing nuclear weapons program on the Persian Gulf”, have a lot of experience in dealing with riots, dissidents, etc.
For example, you have probably read that the Egyptian government has taken to hiring gangs of unemployed young men to gang-rape/sexually harass female anti-government protesters on the streets of Cairo. That’s a smart (and evil) move as it panders to both the economic and sexual hopelessness of those young “brown-shirts”.
Highly unlikely you will see actual starvation. You can keep someone alive for less than $2 a day and the Egyptian GNP is large enough to afford that. Maybe bread will have to be rationed but that is not starvation. There are plenty of vegetables etc. Egypt exports them. Now they may have to eat them.
I haven’t had so much fun since the hogs ate my kid brother.
David,
You are Orthodox now! You should not be rejoicing in your enemies downfall!
But dont worry Im not religious so I will have an extra beer for you! Ive already written off my $100 bet that Egypt will burn by Jan 1. But I guess its no so bad. Its kind of like when your team wins the Super Bowl but doesnt cover the spread. Its great but a bit of a bummer. Its the important thing that matters!
“Burn baby burn…Egyptian Inferno”
As God said to the angels when the waves closed over Pharaoh’s chariots: My creatures are drowning.
Careful for maybe you will not be so passed over this time around
I do not believe we have a guarantee, but I do not think we survived extermination four times, from 1948 though 1973, through natural means.
He said it to the angels, but the people actually being saved rejoiced in their would-be murderers’ downfall, and so we say the song of the Sea every day. That, I think, is the difference; these calculations are for onlookers and even descendents, but not for the one God has just saved.
Dearest DPG, a confession: I’m undergoing a massive crisis of faith in you and the other conservative commentators I used to worship. Where’s the Somalia-style famine for Egypt you promised us last year? Now it turned into just a 10% drop in Egypt’s food exports? And what with Dick Morris and Karl Rove reassuring us that all was going to be fine and Banana would be flushed out to remain a fluke in American history? Even your hopeful prognostication of America (and Israel) having the brightest future in the west by virtue of their higher fertility sounds somewhat lame now that America’s fertility took a sudden drop and sadly Israel could be nuked out or chemed-out any moment now by the proliferation of new and ever more toxic types of Moslemmings. So the question is, if loss of faith brings a drop in fertility, as we learnt from you; now that I’m losing my faith in you will my fertility drop? Should I be keeping an eye on my sperm count? Or can you offer treatment by addressing your most hopeful prophesies and why they didn’t materialize? Chief among them the famine plague on Egypt. Civil strife is not enough, nothing less than famine will fix their attitude problem.
Egypt got a bit more money than I thought it would. The breakdown is occurring, but more slowly than I expected. It’s not a 10% drop in food exports that kills them, but a 40% decline in food IMPORTS going forward. RTFA.
er… Well, I did read the FA and couldn’t fail to be depressed by your massive upgrade from Egypt as Somalia to Egypt as North Korea. Both have starving people but Somalia is harmless to us (unless you’re on the wrong vessel or Black Hawk), while the Norks can tsend nukes on missiles.
“Should I be keeping an eye on my sperm count? ”
Better you then anyone else. I don’t want to see your Episiotomy scar either.
As far as the Norks putting a nuke on an ICBM. It hasn’t happened yet.
They have produced two (2) fizzles and are 1 for 2 on ICBM’s. Nothing to fear yet.
They are a decade or more from building a nuke that works AND is small enough to put on an ICBM.
The Media hypes the Norks up because that is how they sell whatever they are selling today.
Oderint dum metuant
CAN send missiles, meant. sorry, on iphone, in bed
It reminds me of all the sneering against goldbugs because of the massive amount of tungsten moving around the world masquerading as bars as well as the paper gold derivatives fraud used by all central banks and their complicit megabank partners to keep gold below $2,000 an ounce. Well the only reason the ‘conspiracy’ (fact really as JPM already got caught massively shorting silver by Max Keiser) is sustainable for now is the fact that China is the world’s largest gold producer and is taking advantage of the ‘cheaper’ paper price to create a massive stockpile, as are numerous central banks from Korea to Mexico (!).
So Egypt isn’t collapsing quite as fast as David said. Neither is the world economy quite as fast as the Greek/Spain/Euro krizis doomers said. So what? Collapse is still happening just in slower motion. Or do you think DHS is ordering billions of rounds and Washington and London are frantically installing Orwellian cameras/microphones all over the place to prepare for plenty and prosperity?
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2012-12-14/guest-post-investment-everybody-loves-hate
I wonder how long it will be before Obama throws Jordan’s King Abdullah under the bus just like he did Mubarak? If that happens, you will see an open break between the United States and Saudi Arabia. The Saudis will then think that Obama is willing to throw their monarchy under the bus as well, so they will make other arrangements to stay in power, probably by making China their newest best friend. China doesn’t care where it gets its oil from as long as it gets it, and if that means propping up the Saudi royal family, then so be it. So given the way Obama dispensed with Mubarak when he no longer became useful to him, if I were the king of Jordan right now I’d be wondering just how good an “ally” the United States really is. Jordan will make its own deals and do whatever it has to do to stop the Muslim Brotherhood. Problem is, we are now supporting rebel groups in Syria (which is right next door to Jordan) that are part of the Muslim Brotherhood. I’m sure this is sitting real “well” with the king of Jordan right now. Not that Obama cares about any of this.
As we speak the Obama administration is printing the t-bills to buy Obama phones for Egypt.
China doesn’t care where it gets its oil from as long as it gets it, and if that means propping up the Saudi royal family, then so be it.
Or propping up the Iranians, or Chavez, or the Sudan.
The Chinese helped build a pipeline in Sudan that was not unrelated to people being kicked off their land so al-Bashir could pump oil for China.
(it’s ironic when naive Hollow-wood celebrities like George Clooney call on China to help “fix” the human travesty in Sudan)
Oogoe won’t be around much longer but, having gotten himself re-selected in October, has named his VP as successor, a guy who seems to share the same dumb worldview.
Taanstafl, just Googled ur handle…Cowboys fan are you?
I believe the Chinese are also building a pipeline across Burma, to avoid the Strait of Malacca.
This is unlikely in the extreme.
IF you watch EVERYTHING zero the lefty hero does, its 100% about expanding the SAUDI Caliphate. Obummer is 100% a saudi creature, it’s remored his school bills were paid for by Prince Bandar, THE most influential man in Washington. G Soros is backing the Saudi Caliphate in the west as THE method to control the general population. Soros “open society” NGO’s worldwide started these “MUZI springs”. Notice no western help for the Irainian “spring”?
Don’t worry about Jordan’s King. If worse comes to worse, Israel will support him. They would be foolish not to. Syria is working on their anarchy. Egypt is about to kick off a civil war. As long Jordan stays cool and Hezzbo’allah has no supply line to Iran, Israel is in the best strategic shape it’s been in since the ’73 war.
My best guess is that the MB will prove that it cannot rule and the MB governments will fail within a generation. Best case would be nipping an entire generation of radical Islamists in the bud.
Israel saved his Dad a few times, although he tried to exterminate us, and I don’t think we will allow it if we can help it. Jordan is to us what Belgium was to England, a weak country between us and the stronger ones.
Re: Liberty Ship’s question, I am dreaming that the King of Jordan falls, opening the door to a war between the Paleostinians and the Muslem Brotherhood for what is now Jordan, and what could become “Palestine.”…making the Saudis and the Israelis allies of the Pals, which they already are vis a vis Iran. Of course, the new Syrian jihadi govt. will want its share of what will be called ancient “Southern Syria”… Interesting times. Well…it’s just a dream…
I am certainly no fan of our current US Administration, but there may be some unexpected logic in the US’s hands-off relations with the Egyptians.
Mubarak was about to fall no matter what. At best he might have lived another 5 years, so finality was always part of God’s plan.
Now ‘the people of Egypt have spoken’ and have gotten the Islamic theocracy they voted for. When it all collapses, as Mr. Goldman predicts, who will be left holding the (empty) bag?
Let the Iranians bail them out! (only partially joking)
My overwhelming impression of Morsi is that he is a hopeless…
Troglodyte
Too bad for the future of a great country.
while this may all be very amusign to AT readers sitting in bed in the states with their ipads, for those of us living and working in Egypt, Jordan and other countries its not just an amusing anecdote.
It might be a mental stretch, but try imagining that those 90 million people you gaily talk about starving to death, might actually be human beings with hopes, fears, families and aspirations, just like you and me.
The revolution has been stolen by the Muslim Brotherhood which is organised on the same lines as the Bolshevik Communist party and which is just as efficent at destroying a country from the inside out.
We have Egyptian fighting Egyptian, families split, colleagues fighting. Its bloody and only going to get worse. The MB is a facist organisation adn they are destrabilising Egypt, Jordan and the whole Middle East/Mesopotamia/Gulf areas. I still don’t know whether B Hussein Obama is doing this actively or through incompetence, but the end result is the same – one of the most volatile regions of the world, becoming increasingly unstable – this volatile area includes the countries that keep the US alive – they supply your oil and gas.
I suggest you stop gloating over our misfortune and start thinking how to get things stabilised peacefully and intelligently – and don’t waste any time about it.
Meantime, here in Cairo, we have tanks and APCs on the streets. We have fist fights in mosquest in Alex. We have the courts blockaded and Salafis threatening to kill journalists. We are entering a dark time and dw need help, not smart arse sarcasm.
Meantime, here in Cairo, we have tanks and APCs on the streets. We have fist fights in mosquest in Alex. We have the courts blockaded and Salafis threatening to kill journalists. We are entering a dark time and dw need help, not smart arse sarcasm.
We’re maybe six months behind you here in the states, the MB has taken over our government, too. We do at least have food, except by the order of the Caliph’s wife, we refuse to feed it to school children.
I suggest you stop gloating over our misfortune and start thinking how to get things stabilised peacefully and intelligently – and don’t waste any time about it. Really, we do care – it’s called gallows humor. However, please realize that there is nothing that we can do about it! We cannot stabilize your country, only you can do that. Even if our country were to try, well – ask the Iraqis and Afghanis how well that worked.
Do you want to know what to do? Simple: put the Copts in charge. So long as the Muslims are trying to run things, it will only get worse.
Not to be overly pessimistic, but to see where this is headed you might want to read the novel “Caliphate” by Tom Kratman. Basically: the entire mideast turned into a parking lot after the MB nukes American cities.
Here’s the good news you are waiting for. John Kerry is reporting for duty!!!
Genghis John
That is very funny.
But could he actually be worse than Hillary? Kerry might come off as quite competent following Ms. Clinton’s reign as Secretary of State.
Well he’s tall, with a nice head of hair. That’s worth something.
Smug America in bed with its ipads isn’t doing so great, either.
But yeah, we can still buy food in the markets, albeit at ever increasing prices.
I don’t have a lot of confidence that America these days can effectively and meaningfully “help” anyone, including itself.
I don’t think that any one except a few silly people are deriving amusement at what is happening in Egypt.
Congratulations on understanding that the Muslim Brotherhood is just a communistic/fascist organization. They are taking over Egypt the way that the fascists took over Germany. Obama is just feckless and filled with the “anticolonialest” knowledge of the 1970′s. He knows the higher truth that Egypt and others are poor because of the United States. But I don’t know if even a courageous person like Bush could do anything for Egypt.
I have the great sympathy and fear for Egypt. But I have to reserve some sympathy and fear for us.
Re your:
“Meantime, here in Cairo, we have tanks and APCs on the streets. We have fist fights in mosquest in Alex. We have the courts blockaded and Salafis threatening to kill journalists. We are entering a dark time and dw need help, not smart arse sarcasm.”
While sympathizing with your individual anger and frustration, it is evident that the billions upon billions of United States Dollars in “help” Egypt has received have not prevented the fists fights in mosques in Alexandria nor have prevented the courts from being blockaded. Muslims fighting Muslims is a situation not within our hated infidel abilities to stop. We’re not wanted…only our cash hydrant. Again, that hasn’t helped, has it?
As far as those Salafis and other butchering factions in the Muslim world are concerned, there’s not a single thing that we despised foreign infidels can do to change your local situation.
If you’re a British woman expat you should then address your anger toward your Government in London along with the French in Paris who’ve been intimately involved inside Egypt’s affaires since the 1750′s or so.
“The revolution has been stolen by the Muslim Brotherhood which is organised on the same lines as the Bolshevik Communist party and which is just as efficent at destroying a country from the inside out.”
Stolen? Well it was entirely predictable. They have broad popular support and were the only organized political force. Does everyone else in Egypt live in a bubble? It was obvious from those of us who knew anything about Egypt from the start.
“I suggest you stop gloating over our misfortune and start thinking how to get things stabilised peacefully and intelligently – and don’t waste any time about it”
I wouldn’t call it misfortune when it was just a bunch of useful idiots thinking that fairy dust would transform the society they know and live in into something else just by wishful thinking. There is nothing anyone outside of Egypt can do about it.
“Meantime, here in Cairo, we have tanks and APCs on the streets. We have fist fights in mosquest in Alex. We have the courts blockaded and Salafis threatening to kill journalists. We are entering a dark time and dw need help, not smart arse sarcasm.”
Those are Egyptian tanks manned by Egyptian sons and fathers. Nobody has done a damn thing to Egypt except to pour good money and weapons into that useless sandpit to keep it from attacking Israel again for no good reason. It is a dark time because Egyptian society is rotten from the inside. Egypt cannot handle democracy. Best help would be a plane ticket out.
I am sorry for the strife that is engulfing your society. But Islam is a belief system that feeds on power and conquest. The West does not acknowledge this but it is true. And since the West will not conquer Islam the “best” I can hope for is that the more radical face of Islam will tear itself apart. Unfortunately this requires just the kind of misery that Egypt(and other parts of the Middle East) is experiencing.
“I suggest you stop gloating over our misfortune and start thinking how to get things stabilised peacefully and intelligently – and don’t waste any time about it.”
Or maybe your country can take responsibility for its own actions and do something about it. And maybe you can stop blaming the Israelis and Americans for every wrong that happens in the Middle East. It wasn’t us who elected the Muslim Brotherhood to power.
“just like you and me”
No, they are NOT. Which is the problem. If you think they are you have ‘gone native’ and need to spend a year back home.
Stoicheon
how would you know that they are not like you and me? What is your justification for saying this? Before you give me chapter and verse, please confirm how long you have lived in Egypt?
I can assure you that the vast majority of Egyptians while being pious, are not Islamist, and their hopes and aspirations are exactly the same as ours – a future for their families, a secure financial situation, good health and the opportunity to improve their lives. Tell me what is so different between that and most Americans (apart from the fact that there are no food stamps here, not social security safety net, and that if you need a government hospital, God help you)
The Brotherhood may be a party of the Lenninist type and horrible and divisive, but your beloved Egyptians voted them and the even harder Islamists into power with a very large majority. Are you saying they did not understand that the Muslim Brotherhood was for Shariah implementation, oppression of women and Christians, and was peddling antisemitic conspiracy theories? That is all the MB is, that is what they do, that is ALL they do! And now we are supposed to feel sorry for Egypt, one of the most antiAmerican countries on the planet? Spare us please. BTW, Egypt has no oil and gas, the Saudi and gulf supply is secure and we won’t need it anyway in short order. Our discoveries and Canada’s will soon allow us to dispense with the lunatic asylum that is the Islamic middle east. Why dont you Tell the Egyptians to quit blaming everything on the Joooz and then maybe we will take them seriously.
Jordan will be able shortly to import natural gas from its neighbor Israel. Much safer and reliable source.
King Abdullah could get more mileage out of the guest worker situation by hiring Copts. They would be free of Brotherhood activity. The Copts need a way to get out of Egypt.
If Israel looks like it faces being overwhelmed, someone from the Israeli Embassy should run into the House of Representatives waving a copy of the US Constitution and the results of a plebiscite (which could be the results of any public opinion survey that could be partially covered by the definition)and finally a petiton for the person to be seated as a member of the US Commonwealth. The impending defeat of the little satan would turn into seriously damaging a part of the Great Satan and the Great Satan appears unamused.
Generally, contractual, law & Order societies behave in a contractual manner in foreign relations. Transactional & trader societies typically have their force capacity as part of their negotiations. Saddam had that in his verbal contact witht the US when there was conflictive relations. FDR, when negotiating to force Japan out of Vietnam, never had any reference to the US as a potential monster of military power once the start button was hit. He was messing with export quotas when he could have telegrammed the Emperor as to the seriousness of the negotiations and to recall that the one thing we both want to avoid is having the duraton of the Emperor’s reign to be adjusted by the US House of Representatives. My impresssion is that the US has never mentioned or reminded entities in the Middle East that if anyone gets too rambunctious and slings nukes based on that Later Verse Enthusiasm stuff, that there would be geographical points in their area which would be converted to candy dishes. The cowboy approach works, walking up to the poker table and sitting down with the money on the table and the six-gun next to it. Recall that in the clash of contractual vs. trader society in 1945 Berlin before the zones were set up, all the conflicts between a GI and a Soviet over what looked like a terrible thing the Soviet was doing to a German civilian ended up the same way. The transactional Soviet would rack a round into his machine-pistol and poke the muzzle in the GI face, the GI would shoot the Soviet dead, seeing that as a contract. The Soviet was behaving contractually, saying this is what I have, what do you have in the intent department?
“The Copts need a way to get out of Egypt.”
The word “Coptic” is rooted in the same Greek word as “Egypt.” The Copts are the original ethnic Egyptians. They feel pretty much the same way a out their land as the News feel about Israel. Telling them to bug out is synonymous with telling them to exterminate their culture in order to save it. That said, Coptic Orthodox Christianity is the fastest growing denomination in the US given the desire to get the children out of harms way.
The hashemite regime better pray the Israelis still see him as a strategic asset. The Saudis can’t prop him up in the face of Shia rebellions at home and MB provocations around him. If the Israelis think that a MB lead Jordan ( a Palestine all but the name) will relieve them of any internal (israeli left wing) pressure to accept refugees or territorial withdrawals, what incentive/assurance can the US or UK give to convince them to save the king?
Jordan’s Abdullah II thrown under the bus ?? I suspect it would be more like pitching a steel beam into an Asplundh wood chipper. He cared/was curious enough to attend the Walsh School at Georgetown after a year at Oxford (having been at Deerfield etc earlier)
CUA-CSOL doesn’t usually invite speakers of the jihadi or ignorani persuasions.
Not many MENA officials have much interest in discussions with JP II or Benedict XVI.
(personal bias – he’s a Trekkie and a Harley guy.)
He prolly has both personal and institutional memory of the Black September days….
In some perspectives he is one of the best MENA leaders in a long time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdullah_II_of_Jordan
The Gas pipeline was blown up 15 times (from Sinai to Israel/Jordan)Egyptians blamed the Bedouins for the sabotage every time- but little was mentioned about the German Salafists who migrated there- Hamas underlings over Rafah- or Jama’al al-Islamiya (Aywan al-Zawahiri’s old group).Saudi King Abdullah and UAE have given Jordan ‘loans’ to tie over- the Egyptian workers in Jordan when Jordan’s own unemployment figures are high- then added burden of all the Syrian refugees to feed,house,provide care and UN is not remitting moola too fast- there have been troublemakers also among Syrian refugees- Palestinians who are allied with MBs in both Jordan and Egypt- Jordanian MBs have been advocating Jordan without any say by the King. Now King Avbdullah is in better position to bypass MB than before- because of Western forces in Jordan. The Jordanians are in tghe front line of chemical attacks if any nearby Jordan/Syria border. PA’s Abbas and King Abdullah were talking about West Bank federation with Jordan. Time will tell- but why would King Abdullah make statements like that- he must have guarantees from GB- his mother Muna was the daughter of Brits who were assigned to King Hussein in Amman.
I recently read that Saudi is mining bauxite and is opening up an aluminum smelter IIRC,it is German contracted. Looks like they are preparing for a drop in oil prices and are going to turn the cheap fuel into other export items.
I’ve noticed that there is starting to be local backlashes against Muslims in the US. It may turn out that the Federal government will not be able to keep covering them especially given how well S&W stock is doing and that of the parent company of Remington.
Wipe the blood off your face, and the smirky smile with it, Mr. Goldman
or is it Mr. Goldcalf?
Shut ‘er down. The people of Egypt are out of their senses. (Sort of like the American people, who will assumably need to experience PAIN in order to see the light of their stupidity,) Maybe some day it will be safe to take an innocent camel ride around the Sphinx and Pyramids again.
“(Sort of like the American people, who will assumably need to experience PAIN in order to see the light of their stupidity,)”
Sadly, I agree. I’ve decided to hunker down and just try to get through what’s coming as best I can. My intelligent relatives and in-laws (and they really are intelligent) think everything is going to be rosy. It’s like we live in two different universes. I expect a lot of pain.
Maybe some day it will be safe to take an innocent camel ride around the Sphinx and Pyramids again.
Some of the more extreme Egyptians (Salafists, Brotherhood, who knows) think those, too, should be blown up à la the giant Bamiyam Buddhas in Afghanistan, blown up by the Taliban.
That the existence of those structures violates some dumb and rather vague reference in the Koran, icons, representations, the same kind of “reasoning” that says you can’t depict Mohammed’s face.
One of Mohammed Atta’s big bitches (Atta was allegedly studying city planning before the 911 caper) was that over-building in Cairo obstructed views of the pyramids.
Meanwhile, back at the ranch, the Saudis have been ripping down iconic Muslim sites in Mecca (maybe Medina as well) like Mohammed’s mother birthplace with nary an objection over that.
Contradictory little creeps, these Islamists.
“It is unlikely that Jordan would take on Egypt without strong backing from Saudi Arabia.” ………..
uh oh,…. more likely Saudi Arabia’s strong backing will be for Egypt.
With a little reflection we can see that forty million starving people needing only two dollars a day require eighty million a day; a mere 29 billion per anum to remain faithful to the one true god. Teh One can put that on my back with a nod to Bernacke and proclaim himself the second coming. Or he could just pay the American farmer directly and get the farm vote for his next term.
Global Research (Canada based site): Russia moves Iskander missiles which can take out Patriots in Turkey into Syria…no word on who has final control over the missiles but I’d bet it’s Moscow, same with the SAMs. I cannot believe they would authorize launch without Moscow’s instructions (akin to Castro agitating for and apparently getting launch on warning status during the Cuban Missile Crisis as communications would presumably be cut if the U.S. invaded Cuba in October 1962).
Basically Moscow’s aim is to make cost of creating another Libya in Syria with NATO no fly zone prohibitively expensive for the U.S. in terms of lives, particularly if Obama insists again as in Libya that he doesn’t need Congress at all and only the UN and NATO can authorize U.S. military action. Even the liberal press won’t be able to spin away the caskets coming home, and Erdogan’s government might be threatened if Turkey took casulties as well. Then at least even with the craven Boehner in Rep. Walter Jones and other patriots could introduce an impeachment resolution that would go no where in the Senate.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/military-escalation-dangerous-crossroads-russia-us-confrontation-in-syria/5315830
The main threat to peace in the Middle East is the “Palestine is Jordan” theory of some right wing Israelis.
Really? Exactly what “peace” is threatened by Palestine is Jordan? The “peace” between Israel and the Palestinians? So there is peace – even with Gaza? Good to know. Or the peace between Israel and Syria – which remain at a state of war? Which “peace” is threatened? Maybe it is the peace that prevails inside Syria, Iraq, Yemen, Libya, Kurdistan, Bahrain, Sinai. Man, I am really glad to hear there is peace. Because I thought thousands were dying. I would hate to have some right wing Israelis threaten the blissful state of peace in the Middle East.
http://www.iraqoilreport.com/energy/natural-gas/cabinet-approves-shell-gas-deal-6646/
Now that Egypt has proven to be a capricious supplier of methane…
It’s a sure bet that Iraq would be willing to sell some the output from this deal to Jordan.
Along the way, any such trunk line would power up power stations all across al Anbar.
I’d expect those facilities to use methane powered turbine sets. They’re extremely practical at all times — doubly so where water is short.
The Kurds of Iraq are ALREADY getting their electric power from their natural gas in this way.
The terrain is so favorable, that any such an undertaking would have no technical hurdles at all.