The New American Fans of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt
There is only one major question facing U.S. policy makers: Do we succeed in pushing President Hosni Mubarak of Egypt to institute both significant reforms and accept the necessity of eventual resignation and creation of a transitional government? Or do we find that we are forced to find a new “democratic” government in office as the regime crumbles, and that the only organized political force existing at present uses its clout to in essence become the new Egyptian regime?
That force, as we all know, is the Muslim Brotherhood. On these pages, Barry Rubin has aptly noted that one outcome could be that:
The Muslim Brotherhood throws its full weight behind the rebellion. Soldiers refuse to fire at or join the opposition. Eventually, a radical regime emerges, with the Muslim Brotherhood as either ruler or power behind the throne. Remember that the “moderate democratic” leaders have been largely radical and willing to work with the Brotherhood. In that case, it is a fundamental transformation.
And Rubin’s harsh scenario, unfortunately, is as likely to take place as any other possible better alternative. Rubin is right that, should this occur, it “will be the biggest disaster for the region and the West since the Iranian revolution 30 years ago. And in some ways it will be worse.”
No wonder so many say we should stick with the devil we know. Or as FDR said of the Dominican Republic dictator in the 1940s, Rafael Trujillo, “He’s a son of a bitch. But he’s our son of a bitch.”
As bad as Mubarak is, and the Egyptian people have good reason to despise him, he is a lot better than other dictators who have led regimes in the Middle East. Remember Saddam Hussein, and also recall the forces that took power in Iran after the populace ousted the shah in 1979. I vividly remember all those student protesters on U.S. campuses bearing photos of the victims tortured by the shah’s secret police, and demanding the Shah’s ouster and his replacement by the great democratic revolutionaries led by the Ayatollah Khomeini. That was a popular theme as well in precincts of the always wise American left, symbolized by the arguments of Princeton University political scientist Richard Falk, or the comment of Jimmy Carter’s UN Ambassador Andrew Young that Khomeini was a “saint.”
It is most instructive to look back at Falk’s arguments, made a scant two weeks after the shah’s government fell and he fled Iran, and the Grand Ayatollah Khomeini returned to the country. Khomeini, Falk wrote in The New York Times (Feb.16, 1979), “has been depicted in a manner calculated to frighten,” and President Jimmy Carter had “associated him with religious fanaticism.” He was also “defamed” by the news media, some of whose pundits dared to call Khomeini an advocate of “theocratic fascism.”
Rather than being a religious leader who fit any of those dire characteristics made by his enemies, the movement had “a nonviolent record.” In addition, the would-be radical Islamist was a man who pleaded with Iran’s Jews to stay in the country. Certainly, even Falk had to acknowledge that the coming leader was against Israel. But that “of course” was due to the fact that Israel “supported the shah” and had not “resolved the Palestinian question.”
Khomeini was not dissembling, Falk assured his readers, since he expressed “his real views defiantly and without apology.” Moreover, his closest advisers were “uniformly composed of moderate, progressive individuals” and those he sought to lead a new government, all of whom “share a notable record of concern for human rights and see eager to achieve economic development that results in a modern society.” The reason the entire opposition deferred to Khomeini was not due to coercion, but because they knew that he and the Shiite “tradition is flexible in its approach to the Koran and evolves interpretations that correspond to the changing needs and experience of the people.” Its main desire and “religious orientation” was concern “with resisting oppression and promoting social justice.”
He knew that Khomeini sought “not to govern,” but instead simply to “inspire.” That is why he would live in the holy city of Qum, a place removed “from the daily exercise of power.” He would simply be a “guide or, if necessary, …a critic of the republic.” He would thus be able to show the world what “a genuine Islamic government can do on behalf of its people.” Falk assured readers that Khomeini scorned “so-called Islamic Governments in Saudi Arabia, Libya and Pakistan.” Thus one could talk of “Islam’s finest hour,” in which Khomeini had created “a new model of popular revolution based, for the most part, on nonviolent tactics.” Iran, he knew, would” provide us with a desperately needed model of humane governance for a third-world country.”
And you wonder why those of us who have become conservatives no longer trust the great spokesmen of the American left/liberal intelligentsia.
So far the retired Professor Falk has been quiet about Egypt. But others have not. Leading the pack is Bruce Riedel, a former CIA officer and now a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution’s Saban Center. He also seems to be the man who has been one of Barack Obama’s chief advisors on the region, having chaired “at Obama’s request…the strategic review of policy toward Afghanistan and Pakistan in 2009.” This is hardly, as the Daily Beast editors seem to think, a credential that puts the man in a good light.
Riedel writes that the years of stability in Egypt and a solid relationship with our country are over. There will be what he calls “more of a sea change in the regional geopolitics.” The “genie is out of the box” and, Riedel argues, there will be a more representative government in Egypt, one “much more inclined to criticize American and Israeli policies.” While the Egyptian street accepts the “logic of peace with Israel,” clearly Mr. Ridel does not. Indeed, he seems to think changing U.S. policy towards Israel is the key to peace in the region.
To accept Israel, he writes, means for the average Egyptian that he “bristles at the humiliation of being a de facto silent partner in the siege of Gaza, Israel’s wars against Hamas and Hezbollah and America’s wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.” Riedel’s frightening implication is that the U.S. break with Israel and show a new warmth towards Hamas and Hezbollah. Thus, he writes, if there is a new Israeli war against its enemies, any new “democratic Egyptian government will have to listen to the voices of the street, both the left and the Muslim Brotherhood.”
He notes that the new hero of the day to many, Mohamed ElBaradei, “will almost certainly redouble the effort to put the Israeli [nuclear] arsenal on the agenda of the U.N.Security Council.” (On today’s Fareed Zakaria GPS, ElBaradei told Zakaria that any new government would have to include representatives of the Brotherhood, which he falsely argued was not a radical organization of an Islamist nature.)
In an earlier op-ed, Riedel put it more straightforwardly. His article bore the title “Don’t Fear Egypt’s Muslim Brotherhood.” We must “understand” the MB, he advises us — just as Richard Falk told us in 1979 to accept and understand Khomeini. Acknowledging that MB founder Shaykh Hassan al Banna “preached a fundamentalist Islamism” in 1928, Riedel argues that even at the time “he was also open to importing techniques of political propaganda from Europe” that made the MB a “fixture” in Egypt.
As for the MB today, Riedel like other apologists for Islamist groups, lets us know that “it has an enormous social-welfare infrastructure that provides cheap education and health care,” and that even in unfair rigged elections, “it is always the only opposition that does well even against the heavily rigged odds.” He emphasizes that it “renounced violence years ago,” is a group that shows “relative moderation,” etc. And he acknowledges that ElBaradei, the chosen alternative for so many of our country’s so-called “realists,” has “formed a loose alliance with the Brotherhood because he knows it is the only opposition group that can mobilize masses of Egyptians, especially the poor.”
If I can use an American analogy, that is like arguing in the 1930s that in the midst of economic crisis, depression, and despair, the people should turn to the American Communist Party because it is the only group that has organizational ability, even though its goal is a Soviet America. (Indeed, some people at the time argued just that.)
Riedel goes further, arguing that the MB “is the most reasonable face of Islamic politics in the Arab world today,” and that if one does not accept them, ElBaradei “will be swept along by more radical forces.” This is another canard: accept the supposedly moderate radicals, because there are even worse extremists on the horizon. Put aside that, as Roger Kimball reminded us at PJM, the MB is a supporter of “the grand jihad” and the erosion of Western society from within.
And Riedel ends by again bringing up the issue of Israel, as if it is the reason for the turmoil and rebellion taking place in Egypt’s streets. Riedel knows, as he writes, that the MB fought Israel in 1948, “its Palestinian branch was the nucleus for Hamas, and the Brotherhood retains links to the rulers of Gaza.” Also, the MB is “fundamentally opposed to any Egyptian cooperation with Israel.” So what should the U.S. do — abandon the only democracy the Middle East and our most staunch ally for decades?
This, of course, is what we are now going to hear from the “realist” brigade, more and more in the coming days. Riedel implies that the U.S. should change its policy to Israel, but shies away from saying it overtly. For the time being, he only says the U.S. “should not be afraid of the Muslim Brotherhood” and that it is not “inevitably our enemy.”
Fortunately, there are saner voices who understand the threat posed by the MB. Among these is the former NYT columnist and former president of the Council on Foreign Relations, Leslie H. Gelb. As he points out, in what might be read as a direct retort to Riedel (and the Obama administration), while the protesters seem to be composed of many elements of the population, few really know who composes the crowds, and so far, judgments have been made on the interviews of a few people.
As for ElBaradei, Gelb notes he has little of a constituency within Egypt, and seems instead to be the chosen figure by American pundits and Obama administration advisors. As for the MB, Gelb warns, “they should give us great pause” and “would be calamitous for U.S. security.” Its defenders do not challenge that, but merely ignore the point, arguing that we can live with the Brotherhood. But in fact, Gelb says, it is a big deal. He writes:
The MB supports Hamas and other terrorist groups, makes friendly noises to Iranian dictators and torturers, would be uncertain landlords of the critical Suez Canal, and opposes the Egyptian-Israeli agreement of 1979, widely regarded as the foundation of peace in the Mideast. Above all, the MB would endanger counterterrorism efforts in the region and worldwide.
People like Riedel and those who echo him take the protestations of the MB at face value. Like Yasser Arafat, their spokesmen know well what to say to gullible Westerners who wish to be bamboozled into finding a reason to support them. They know how to make nice and to sound reasonable. As Gelb humorously notes by quoting what his mother would say to their words, “They would say that, wouldn’t they?” That does not mean we have to accept their claims at face value. One should judge them by their best friends — Hamas and Hezbollah.
To show them trust, to follow the would-be wisdom of Riedel or Richard Falk, is to give credibility to the group that, at present, is the only organized political opposition that is capable of taking power, emulating the route initiated by Lenin and the Bolsheviks in 1917, when they seized power and led to the collapse of the interim moderate socialist government in Russia. If the MB gains control, Gelb writes, “it’s going to be almost impossible for the people to take it back. Just look at Iran.”
Events are moving quickly, and things may take a great turn for the worse. Sudden collapse of the Mubarak regime and the coming to power of the MB in a coalition it dominates would be the worst result, and would threaten to turn the Middle East into chaos for a long time.
Only one thing is clear: Let us avoid counsel from those who urge us to accept the radical Islamists who appear in sheep’s clothing. Listening to the Richard Falks of our own day and age will assure the triumph of the worst possible outcome.






I agree with every word.
Why does the American left always, always, always repeat its mistakes? It’s always, “Oh, so-and-so is a moderate, he’s the best alternative, we shouldn’t be afraid of such-and-such.” That gentle poo-pooing of quite rational objections always leads to disaster.
The problem being that the next disaster might lead to Israel’s great harm, if not outright destruction.
It’s not so much a “mistake” as a question of philosophy. The American Left has spent forty-odd years hearing the likes of Khomeini, Arafat, bin Laden, the Muslim Brotherhood, etc., chanting “Down With America!”, “Death To Israel!”, “No Modernity!” and similar slogans that they, the Left, have also been chanting for half a century. And they assume that since the radicals in the MidEast sound like them, they must also think like them.
To them, Islamist radicals are simply leftists who have yet to realize that they are, in fact, leftists. The Left believes that, after the Islamist Triumph, they will be the ones leading the new Islamic World State to the light- of doing things their way, for their reasons. (As per Eric Frank Russell’s short story, “Diabologic”.)
After all (according to the Western, not just American, Left), the Islamists simply haven’t had the right education to mesh their desires for “social justice” with the theories behind same; the Left will supply the necessary “enlightenment” to bring them up to speed. After which, the Islamists will of course beg- beg!- the “enlightened ones” to run the world, with the Islamists as their adoring underlings.
The fact that the Islamists hate the West for an entirely different set of reasons than those of the “enlightened elite’” is totally lost on the latter. Just as they do not comprehend that they, the Left, are one of the things that the Islamists hate about the world outside of their own primitivist, medievalist societies.
When the Islamists call for a return to the “roots” of Islam, it isn’t communes, collective farms, or “making rivers wild again” they want. It’s tribalism on a colossal scale. Complete with blood feuds, eternal warfare between competing groups vying to be top dog- and of course the extermination of any “infidels” who don’t convert fast enough.
I expect the Left to figure this one out about the time they are being bent over the headsman’s block and the sword is being raised over their necks.
I also expect that, nonetheless, their whining last words will be “But can’t we talk about this?”
clear ether
eon
Excellent summary. It’s too bad the people who don’t realize it also won’t accept it.
the left is plainly messed up. they are the product of years of progressive brainwashing.
they have no understanding of totalitarianism or dictatorships. (that is strange since the see themselves as the people who could make a dictatorship work). yet they do no consider their fantasy utopia as a dictatorship.
I venture that Darwin will give then (and we will suffer for it too) a nasty surprise.
….my back up plan is to open a shop selling prayer rugs.
The brainwashing has led to excessive brain shrinkage. We have nurtured and protected a large group of people who could not possibly survive in the world they hope to create.
Liberalism would be as self correcting as over population in the third world if America’s capitalism didn’t save it from itself.
Justal Under comment #1
Justal says:
We have nurtured and protected a large group of people who could not possibly survive in the world they hope to create.
“WE” know that – And thats why they have their ‘socialist government’! – The gov’t is going to help them “survive” see they are all better now…
Get with it justal!
The Obama administration, and its supporters, have not only favored the MB from the get go – but they have been quietly fomenting these suppposedly populist, grass-roots revolts:
Obama supports Islamist takeover of Egypt
The Muslim Brotherhood are dangerous enemies:
Egypt: Populist Revolt or Muslim Brotherhood?
Hardcore liberals are like children.
Due to their naive nature they actually beleive the LIES being spewed forth by groups like the Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas, Hezzbolah etc.
They refuse to acknowledge the obvious truth about the middle-east: that there are deep rooted cultural attitudes that are incompatible with democracy, and by “cultural attitudes” I am refering to both the teachings of Islam and the underlying Arab tribal customs/traditions that continue to hold sway to this day.
But this of course goes against all that multiculturalist B.S. that they learned at University. All cultures are in fact NOT equal. What state would the world be today if it were not for the western traditions of democracy, rule of law, free markets, individual liberty, etc?
We would ALL be struggling to scratch out a meager living under the yoke of the latest tyrant just like those poor folks in Egypt.
Egypt and the rest of the middle east for that matter will NOT change unless the people fully embrace the democratic tradition.
All quite simple really if you can put your big boy pants on and think like an adult.
Sorry to be OT, Ron
If you read your comments section. I am trying to find, from your book Commies, the Nightline and CNN coverage of your debate on the Rosenberg case in New York. As well as the name of the Documentary that was made with footage of the event from CNN’s video.
I am very interested in seeing this.
Any help appreciated.
EV
Nightline should have it in their archives at ABC News. Somewhere, I have an old videotape of their hour program. CNN covered it with intermittent live excerpts; no idea where that is.
I did see the documentary once at its screening, but it was never released nor was it on television. I believed The Nation Institute (Nation magazine) produced it. Perhaps they know. It was fairly even-handed, as I recall. You might try contacting them at the magazine.
Thanks. If I find any, Ill contact you and let you know.
As to Ron’s OP…
No guts, no glory.
We will see if Islam has a future on this planet, soon enough…or whether it will have to be eradicated.’
One thing I find very interesting…is that the same people that defend Muslim Immigration into the West, are puting our dire warnings about Egyptians future. How about some dire warning about Europes future, instead of apologizing for Islam and Muslims? Our principles and values arent a suicide pact.
IMO, we should be following a policy of containment, shrinking the public space for Islam on this planet, while attempting to help fight the Islamic Reformation in Muslim Majority lands (like Egypt)….with multifaceted support for the Muslim and Secularist Left in those lands. Importing Islam to the West and allowing them to use our democratic institutinos against us, while we fight the Islamic Reformation in our cities and towns is downright dumb.
“We will see if Islam has a future on this planet, soon enough…or whether it will have to be eradicated.”
No doubt EscapeVelocity is one of those lefty provocateurs, trying to give the right a bad name.
Seeking attention again, Joseph, you blatant attention whore. Spout your useless drivel on the mindless overly-moderated Huffpo where you rightly belong.
Ah, I see Delia is another proponent of the Final Solution to the Moslem Problem.
Joseph, your blatant flirtations with moi are embarrassing.
How about you tuck some of that straw-man rhetoric of your hoo-hah and have a good spin of it? If you land on red, touch your head.
Looking forward to a life under Shari’a, are you?
Egypt is the birthplace of modern Islam – think taliban, Hamas, Iranian mullahs, Osama ben Laden. So, it should not surprise anyone that finally Egypt is succumbing to the disease it invented. The next few decades will be rather gloomy for Egypt.
As I said on my blog – Revolution as good as its people. And Egyptian people ain’t cool.
We are witnessing the new “dark ages” engulfing the middle east
..and they will spread it far and wide.
Endland is a prime example of the “far and wide”…America led by Obama and friends is not far behind.
We don’t pay attention until it hits us in the face, then wonder how the heck did we get in this situation..
Egypt is the birthplace of modern Islam – think taliban, Hamas, Iranian mullahs, Osama ben Laden. So, it should not surprise anyone that finally Egypt is succumbing to the disease it invented. The next few decades will be rather gloomy for Egypt.
As I said on my blog – “Revolution as good as its people”. And Egyptian people ain’t cool.
Elitists, self prescribed intellectuals, leftists,and all those who prefer to live in alternate realities, see things differently.NOT through facts on the ground or historical facts, but through a prism of how they wish the world to be,more akin to Alice-in-Wonderland and reality tv, than life as it is.
In this regard, let all rational thinkers dismiss their pie in the sky assessments out of hand.For if they do NOT, the west will absolutely-surely as the sun sets and rises each day-be in for a reckoning, the likes of which will cause 9/11/01 to appear as a Disney Land mirage.
However,there are those who base their thinking in reality, as uncomfortable as it may be, therefore, paying close attention to their assessments will be life saving.I am not over reacting.I am intimately familiar with this region and this topic.
At the VERY least one must be familiar with the underpinnings, the politico-religio ideology which fuels the Muslim Brotherhood-their lifeblood of sorts. They are the major opposition to the regime which many want to sanitize, some like to marginalize, while others prefer to relegate them to having ‘just’ 20% of public support.Mind you, this 20% number was held at bay only because the Mubarak regime kept them in check, and for good reason.
While the Mubarak regime is indeed odious, anti-semitic too, they do understand the ways of the world.To wit, they understood that their bread is literally contingent on cooperation with the west, and to a lesser extent with Israel.The above ensured that the Middle East would not descend into chaos,the result of which would reverberate world wide.
Moreover, the smarties never internalize the facts. The worldwide dangers from the Muslim Brotherhood are detailed in stark form in ‘The Muslim Mafia’, by Gaubatz and Sperry, a book short on polemic, long on first hand documentation from Muslim Brotherhood leaders/front groups, sourced and meticulously researched.It is an undercover, true story of daring like few others.Most importantly, the nexus between Islamism and Nazism is rock solid,(the Brotherhood spawned from Hitler’s genocidal machine)its gory details best found in German historian, Mathias Kunzel’s book on the subject.
Not being one to take others words as gospel I do my own due diligence.To wit, I have read not only the above books, but many, many others on the subject.For ‘light’ reading, I defer the posters to Paul Sperry’s first masterpiece in 2002, ‘Infiltration’.Those who believe that what happens in the Middle East just remains in the region are hallucinating.
Sperry reveals, through meticulous documentation, the DEEP Infiltration of the Muslim Brotherhood into the highest echelons of US gov’t and power circles.The White House, Congress, even the Pentagon have Muslim Brothers in sensitive positions.This IS a fact.Furthermore, the spawns of the Brothers-Hizbullah, Hamas & AlQadea-are deeply burrowed in small terror cells throughout major US states, in particular, Virgina(the location of the 555 Grove Street, Holyland Foundation terror nexus)NY, LA, Arizona and a host of others.
There are those among us who prefer to bury their heads in the Arab sand.However, those who wish to survive with the west intact would do well to pay attention to the above.It is just the tip of the Islamic iceberg and I know exactly what I am talking about.
The above does not obviate the fact that may thousands of ordinary Egyptians seek economic rights and basic freedoms.But we dare not allow the brothers to slip into the power vacuum, simply so that others can pat themselves on the back and say they stood behind the people.By failing to understand the regional dynamics of the Arabs/Islamists, one ends up hurting the ordinary citizens by an exponential magnitude, thus paving the way for the Brothers.
Primarily, the job of the superpower of the world is to make sure that western interests are protected, and after that is accomplished, reforms can be made contingent to the aid.
Carter redux will be catastrophic.
Most in the West have no idea who and what Sayyid Qutb is all about, much less his role in the origins of the Muslim Brotherhood. It is instructional to read Paul Berman’s Liberalism and Terror, because he clearly displays the fascination and the yearning that many of the weak-minded and liberal western Left (and isn’t that the same thing?) have for Islam and the structured life under Shari’a law. The image that come to mind was that of a rabbit ‘charmed’ by a snake. Jsut before it is devoured.
Not to put a too fine point on Reidel’s mendacious rantings, but he should be careful what he wishes for.
For IF the MB comes to power-either overtly or through their puppet El Baredi-Israel will take notice.
To put it as bluntly as possible, our leaders(as addled as they often appear)understand that the sea is not such a great place to be pushed into.Therefore, over many decades our leaders, to their credit, have made sure to keep many bunkers full of bombs,(Dimona, anyone?)of the WMD variety.
Leftists don’t like our in initiative one bit, but Zionist Israelis sure don’t give a damn.Therefore, unless he wants the ENTIRE Middle East to go up in flames, he would do well not to push us into a corner.The mega nukes and the tactical ones are there for worst case scenario purposes.Reidel(as well as others) would do well not to test our resolve.
stay strong, Adina, and all our friends in Israel! there are thousands of us here who know these are desperate days for Israel, and who will do anything we can to help you–unlike, I’m afraid, our Islamophilic president.
Stamped and co-signed.
Always remember that the Palestinians had “free” and “fair” elections in Gaza and what did they come up with? Hamas. And I don’t see Hamas giving up power anytime soon. “Democratic” reforms in a Middle Eastern country usually means that the radical Islamic groups are about to take over the country. Even in Iraq, that country will probably descend into a civil war once we leave at the end of this year, with the Shia clerics trying to take over. So, unless there is some plan to replace Mubarak with some other strong man, the Muslim Brotherhood will probably take over.
The next question is, how much longer before there is regime change in Jordan? Don’t know how much longer the king will be able to hold on there. Once he falls and with Hezbollah already taking over Lebanon, then the new isolation of Israel will be complete. 2011 is shaping up to be a miserable year in the Middle East.
The signs are troubling:
Obama won the presidency on November 4, 2008 which fell on the 29th anniversary of the hostage crisis in Iran-the first act of war by militant Islam on the US leading to the 9/11 catastrophe 22 years later. This occured under Jimmy “we have overcome our fear of Communism” Carter-the man who deserted the pro-Western, secularizing Shah in favor of the US hating Islamist Ayatollah Khomenie believing he was a democratic reformer. Ominously the Shah fled to (and died in) Egypt a country now in turmoil like the one he left.
On April 6, 2009, shortly after Obama delivered his first fawning speech to Islamfrom Ankara, Turkey (his first trip to a Moslem country, which is now an ally of Iran and turning Islamist) a Turkish-born Canadian citizen stole a small single engine plane from a Canadian flight school and flew it across the US border where he was forced to land by two pursuing F-16 jets. Ironically and ominously, and I do not believe this was a mere coincidence, the plane landed in CARTER COUNTY, MISSOURI…………….
Click my name to continue reading article.
ApolloSpeaks-clicking onto your blog I noticed that parts of it have been tampered/hacked into.
It appears that your unmasking of the Mohammadean in the White House, (demonstrating his ‘hearting’ with the true aspirations of the Brotherhood)dovetails with their front man,El Baredi, rankling some (terror) feathers.
Therefore, it is a pretty near bet that you came closer to the truth than those linking the rioting, looting, get out of jail free demonstrators feel comfortable with.
Since part of their plan is to rope a dope westerners, until their boots are firmly planted in power,they are seeking out those sites which expose their true Islamic agenda.
Please fix the site, want to pass it around.
Kudos, a job well done!
thanks for the link …regards
Re Andrew Young calling Khomeini a saint.
Take a look at this book via Google Books http://bit.ly/dOrAK7
Flawed triumphs: Andy Young at the United Nations By Bartlett C. Jones.
“According to Maynes, Andrew Young responded to the Ayatollah’s reported bigotry as follows:
‘Yes, that does worry me. But, my own experience with the press leads me to be very sympathetic and understanding of forgiving of the way people are caricatured by the press. I would be willing to bet that in another year or so – it probably won’t take that long – Khomeini will be some kind of saint when we finally get over the panic of what is happening there. He is not a man to be dismissed. I can certainly not agree with what I hear people say he says. But I don’t agree with what people say I say either.’
“… To his dismay The New York Times then reported that he had called Khomeini a saint.”
Apparently, Ron, he was saying that press reports are shallow and likely to exaggerate his faults and then his virtues. So, your reference to this event is likely wrong or at least worthy of serious doubt.
I think THE crucial question for Americans is – Why did BHO refuse to stand up for the protestors in Iran eighteen months ago yet shows surprising support for the protestors in Egypt?
Is Egypt under Mubarak a greater threat to the USA than Iran under Achmadinajad?
Perhaps the ” new American fans of the Muslim Brotherhood ” are simply sucking up to the current occupant of The White House.
obama is supporting the MB …remember he has radical ties to some hamas groupies.
..again that is why he was silent on Iran.
the most dangerous man in the world ..yet he is a fraud …an idiot.
go figure
Ron – Spot-on. I agree with many of the other commentators here: the result will not be good if Mubarak and/or the military can’t hang on to power.
Ron – Your description of Falk brings to mind the Duranty articles of the 1930s about the Soviet Union. Duranty was wrong in the 30s, and obviously Falk was just as wrong in 1979, and I suppose whatever the NYT writes today is wrong as well. (I gave up reading the NYT around 1999.)
I think that the administration is voicing policy that has proved disastrous in the past. Unfortunately Marxists do not believe in history but in the ideology of evolution. I studied revolutions in graduate school and, in particular, I asked why provisional governments fail. Liberalization controlled by an establishment is seen as too slow and conservative. So, a ruthless minority like Nazis or Bolsheviks takes over. The Dems need to swallow their pride and bring in Paul Bremer, the most successful at birthing democracy since Gen MacArthur. He worked hard to identify all stakeholders in Iraq and give them voice. That has worked better than any provisional government or managed transition ever has.
If they are destructive, aggressive, and hate America, they can’t be too bad. In short, that’s the position of much of our media, and forgive the liberty, our academics and barf, intellectuals.
Somewhere there is a death wish lurking in their dark, little souls.
Running like a fine thread throughout these posts is , for me at any rate, the central issue of our times. Who is our enemy, at base, the Imperial Islamists, or the Left?
What we are witnessing, of course, is an alliance between the two. I do not want to use this post to go into the foundations of the relationship between the Left and the Imperial Islamists. In part they are using each other, in part they have a common enemy – us, and in part groups like the Muslim Brotherhood are more Socialist in their policies than not.
Whatever the case may be the alliance is strong, and the Left will magnify the power of whatever more leftward regime becomes installed in Egypt and focus it here, and support a further leftward/Islamist movement in Egypt in any case.
You have to imagine what a victory for the left Egypt would be. The left up to now has been working on the Palestinian question, their ambition being to bring a Palestinian State into existence. A Palestinian State would be like a new Russia for them. The left has been without a country since the breakup of the Soviet Union.
I doubt the left even ever dreamed of taking Egypt. But now it is play. And its outcome will likely accelerate the formation of a Palestinian State.
A Palestinian State would be the worst possible beginning for Western Civilization that could happen in the Mid East. Right now no Arab Country (except Iran) wants the Palestinians. No Arab State (except Iran) wants Hamas. Better they live in Lebanon and Gaza and a Palestinian State.
Here is what I do not understand. As the US, Israel and the mature Arab States have a common enemy in Imperial Islam, why we do not defeat the Palestinians and Hamas returning the land to Israel. Mature Arab states would not oppose a growth in Israel in return for the elimination of what threatens them. Besides as everyone who does not hate Israel knows, Israels biggest problem is that they are too small.
for the time being there is little difference between the left and radical islam.
later they will fight for control but right now the assist each other.
an example is oooogo chavez and his relationship with iran. …if the muslims take over it will be convert or die …even if your name is hugo chavez.
hey and to sean penn ..never go full retard! you cann’t come back from there.
Lawrence, Both the Left and Islam have the same goal- submission.
I never said they didn’t
I agree with several of your points, up to a point, but I think you exaggerate the malice and intellectual clarity of the majority of leftists.
Off the top of my head, I can maybe see two relatively small groups (or archetypes) of the left who might roughly fit your description.
First, there is the truly radical intellectual left, which used to represent communists/Stalinists, later became the far left-wing of the New Left, but now rarely advertises itself as “socialist.” Insomuch as this element is still cohesive and/or coordinating as a pseudo-vanguard movement, they would probably go so far as to support Islamist “resistance” movements while actually realizing what that means (they’d figure they could deal with them sometime in the future).
Second is the hard-core angry-at-Amerikkka/capitalism activist types (e.g., International Answer). Some of these folks have deluded themselves that the Muslim Brotherhood et al are just oppressed peoples who, once liberated, would not be a treat to other anti-Imperialistic elements. Others of them are not quite so deluded, but they hate the “Reich wing” and Amerikkka so much that they figure they have it coming.
Most wannabe radical left-wingers, however, are just naiive, ignorant, and misguided. They genuinely do not appreciate the dangers posed by the Muslim Brotherhood and more openly radical Islamist elements. These “progressives” are not sophisticated and/or wise enough to distinguish between actual racism versus analysis informed by historically-based cultural awareness.
For them, political Islamism is a cultural-marker that identifies the early-stages of empowerment of yet another oppressed minority group, sort of like the Black Power movement was in the 1960s/early 70s in the U.S. To us, it’s a huge stretch to conflate 1960s American Black Power with 21st century, foreign radical Islam, but many pseudo-leftists are filtrating information through a two-dimensional, Howard Zinn-lite narrative (that dreams of a nice, progressive transnational future).
Talking to these leftists on subjects pertaining to “oppressed peoples” is like talking to mentally challenged school children – naturally, when they get confused and frustrated, they strike out in passive aggressive ways. If only their passive aggressive attacks were as harmless . . .
You are a fool
Okay, then, if you’re going to call me a fool: What evidence do you have of a (literal) alliance between the American left and the Muslim Brotherhood? I see it more as them having shared affinities, but please prove me wrong.
Also, “mature Arab States” might fear radical Islamism but they also rightly fear more general mass revolts, like we’re seeing in Egypt. One worrisome aspect of the Egyptian revolt is when reporters interview random protestors (aka the “Arab Street”) and these people say, “we hate Mubarak because he protects Israel, which is our enemy. We need to get rid of Mubarak so we can attack Israel,” and so forth. The Egyptian public heavily supports (roughly 80 percent) the normal crazy Muslim stuff like killing apostates and adulturers. The regimes in “mature Arab states” have to pretend to be at least semi-hostile to Israel even though/if they have no rational fear of Israeli power.
But, then, I’m just a fool.
Dear Sir,
You are no fool and what you cite is truly frightening.
There’s such an odd ad-mixture of the hard Left with the hard Islamists because the two go together like water and oil. There is no harmony with an extreme regime espousing stoning of women, killing the ‘infidel’, killing of ‘gays’ and I doubt “abortion” is an option for a Muslim woman, juxtaposed with the hard Left which espouses pro-homosexuality, pro-woman, pro abortion etc.
Just bizarro and rife with “OOPS!” bad idea.
We are living in very chaotic times…I honestly am bracing myself for the idea that we may very well have a new world war unlike any war we’ve had before (nukes and bio-weapons and planes etc).
If Israel goes to war and the USA doesn’t back her up…we are in deep doo-doo.
Delia,
You have spoken that which is not to be spoken but that which is to be.
Where else can this go? Peace in the Middle East in our time. Yeah right Neville (sp).
Shokran
Larsky,
Does “Shokran” mean “thank you”? I googled it but I’m not sure if that’s the proper translation.
We are living in very troubling times and the possible economic collapse of the entire world which could not only have dire consequences in “dollar sense” but, could also bring commerce to a halt and starve a lot of people.
The Middle East has always been a hot-bed of nut-jobs and this latest “outburst” will mean Israel better avail the nukes.
Then get out your boots. The USA will – NOT -be there.
squeeze cheese,
If the USA doesn’t stand with Israel in a full-on Middle East war than we are doomed.
I repeat what I do not understand. The United States, Israel and mature Arab states have a common enemy – Imperial Islam. More than anything else this is both elementary and obvious. In fact Mubarak’s rule personifies it. The Muslim Brotherhood’s assassination of Sadat was not lost on him. The fly in the ideological ointment here seems to be (I don’t know enough to say for certain) seems to be Saudi Arabia. Their version of Islamic Sharia law seems more aligned with the Muslim Brotherhood’s than with the leaders of the other Arab States.
Why should we tolerate Hamas’s victory in Lebanon. Isn’t it time to smash the Palestinians and scatter them to the winds? Aren’t we the only one’s whose hearts bleed for them? Were not attempts made to accommodate them in Jordan, and Syria and where they not such threats and troubles that they were mercilessly expelled from those countries?
To even the balance, shouldn’t some coalition overthrow Iran, destroy Hamas, destroy Hezbollah, smash the Palestinians – scatter them to the winds, and incorporate the vacated territories into Israel proper?
Can no one see this?
Co-Sign.
“more of a sea change in the regional geopolitics.” The “genie is out of the box”
Riedel is right the events in Egypt changes everything. The question to ask is, are the changes for the better? If you ask me
the answer is definitely no. What we are witnessing is the beginning of the next middle eastern fireworks with a lots of missiles. If anyone thinks MB will not take over (overtly or behind the seen) Egypt, doesn’t know anything about Arabs or the Middle east. Once Egypt folds like cheap suit, all bet are off. Specially after US leaves Iraq. If you think Carter mismanaged the Shah of Iran, just wait, you haven’t seen nothing yet. The Mubarek affair will hunt BHO for the rest of his life. So is the rest of the world.
good article RON
the west is being gamed again.
the obama administration has been helping the muslim brotherhood.
egypt is about to enter a very dark period.
Exactly right!!!!
There will be a dear price to be paid, even here in America we will be shaken. Lies, deception, prayer rugs…
Right!!
I’m not prone to hyberbole, but this is a superb (and alarming) article. Professor Radosh, you are first-rate writer, researcher, analyst, scholar.
Hitler wrote Mein Kampf, and the Muslim Brotherhood wrote the Hamas Covenant http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp
The biggest mistake the world made before WWII was failing to take Hitler at his word.
The Muslim Brotherhood has plainly stated their intent, including the interim step of engaging in an advertising campaign to convince Muslims that they each have an individual duty to murder every Jew on the face of the earth, and to conquer every square inch of land ever held by any “muslim” regime.
That advertising campaign has been in place for about five decades, with the unsurprising result of creating hell on earth where it has taken root – in Afghanistan, in Lebanon, in Iraq, in Pakistan, and of course, in Gaza.
The Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt has not repudiated the Hamas Covenant.
I say be careful what you wish for–again! Egypt has a host of issues that makes this scenario economically a disaster as well as politically and theocratically as well. Their economy is poor and the people need assistance since they have no free market tradtions to deliver a better standard of living. They need US aid. That will get worse since the Muslim brotherhood, like Hamas, only knows about the tradition of exploiting aid from rich guilty western socieities. They will most likely fall into the Iranian theocracy model at some point. The Arab world is bent on self destruction so this will likely happen in the new regime. As a result war on neigbors like Israel is more likely. Not good for anyone.
So I say democracy in the Arab world makes no sense. It is an empty word to the typical protester. Take a careful look at the protestors and you have a glimpse of a Taliban style future of sorts. Do you observe any women anywhere? Not a one!!!
Wonder what this means to a society that is sick on so many levels.
Hold on to your seats because once again this is way beyond the pay grade of the current administration to handle.
Tommy G
I’m typing this from a cafe in well TA of course, and a lot of people are wilfully talking about anything but Egypt, but it’s in the background, on the TV news all the time, the radio. On top of that, a bad totally unexpected personal family tragedy has just unfolded over the last few days – it all appears so ominous…
The parallels with Iran are frightening, quite a few on the Left are salivating at the idea of the Muslim Brotherhood coming to power in Egypt (well not the Israeli Left, they are not that crazy) and Obama is not going to stop being Obama tomorrow. He’s probably right now desperately wondering how he can pin this on the Jews, hey I’m sure he will find a way..
I really am starting to fear a major conflagration in the Middle-East this year, I mean something not seen since the war of ’73. Even worse..
‘I mean something not seen since the war of ’73. Even worse..’
Yep.
I concur. Scary times.
Larry, sorry to hear about your personal tragedy.Bad news seems to come in droves.I am unfortunately familiar with its sucker punch
.
You are precisely correct in correlating the atmosphere pre 1973 to today.In fact, when speaking with relatives back in the States this is precisely what I told them we can expect.
Whereas 1967 took the enemy by surprise,(a blessed pre-emption) this time our intelligence may have fallen down.That is what happened in 1973, leading to near catastrophe in the process.
However, it may also be possible that our Mossad assets saw it coming, but warned the leaders to keep mum for reasons unknown.
Whatever the case, one thing is for sure-our military will be tested in ways it hasn’t been in decades.On the plus side we have many more assets, tricks up our sleeve than in 1973.Further, our guys have been training non stop since 2006.
Nevertheless, I am sleeping better at night knowing that we have tactical nukes and other configurations-just in case.
Time to let world leaders know that the bombs may well come out of the basement, and that we become rabid dogs when pushed against the sea.
I ain’t kidding…..
This has been gamed for the lasy year and a half.. BHO is nothing if not vindictive. When Mubarak didn’t cow-tow on June 4. 2009 his days were numbered. This is not quite the surprise some think.
Menachem, would love to hear the gaming theory on these unfolding events-(spontaneous revolution?hardly…) from Prof Aumann, the Israeli Nobel winner in Economics on Game Theory.
FYI-Aumann was the keynote speaker at an important conference last week regarding the absolute necessity of Israel to keep the heartland in our hands. It had many heavy hitters attending and will have ongoing follow up.
Saner voices finally emerging to beat back the fantasists in our midst!
Shalom Adina, You may not remember but we met at Little Italy restaurant on Keren Hayesod years ago.
I was with my wife, daughter, son-in-law and grandkids. You were seated at the next table. We chatted just a moment.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJAFRF75OVA
Menachem, trying to remember meeting you on Keren Hayesod, but am drawing a blank.It would either had to have been in April 04, or Sept 08 to date, otherwise would not have been around at that time.
I am usually very good with people and dates!
Okay, are you talking about 38 Keren in Raanana?So, maybe we are neighbors……
Must have been with my brother at the time too.
In ’08 in Yerushalayim. You were dining alone. Not really important just thought I’d mention it. What is important is that your posts are first rate and hit the mark every time.
Ronnie: For the most part your analysis is spot on. One place where I disagree
is your accounting of the history right after the fall of the Shah. At that time
there was a truly moderate “bazari” genuine bourgeoise group which, if we had
not brought in the Shah to this country, might have had sufficient traction
to prevail. Thus, initially there was a genuine choice between the Shah and
the mullahs.
One other demurral ( now that I think of it), is that the Obama administraton
as of Monday, has not yet said it would support any group, including
el Baradi. Secretary of State Clinton, on Sunday, played it close to the
vest. I think that the administration (and McCain and Mcconnell agree) think
that the administration is playing it just right. You may have disagreements
with Obama, but you maintain your credibility, if you don’t take gratuitous
pot-shots.
A lot of huffing and puffing in your article, Ron, but not a single rational suggestion of how the US could prevent the MB from becoming part of a new government.
Look at the flag.
The crossed swords image is the horns of the bull. The crescent moon. The Koran is where Venus should be. The morning star, aka the son of the Sun god.
The New Age calls forth their god every full moon to return to earth. The rebirth of Nimrod. See Lucis Trust.
This is why the New Agers love Islam. They know, even if Islam doesn’t, they worship the same false god. New Agers call him Superman, and Christians call him the Anti-Christ.
Doing what feels good is at the heart of the New Age. Mohammad was a great example of that.
it’s funny how if you set aside your common sense and knowledge of history for a minute, the picture falk paints is really sort of nice sounding. interesting – i would want to watch the development as such a political culture as he describes. if i really believed what falk wrote, i would be pissed at people who wanted to attack and crush it too. and then i think – people who like this Falk version of the story are almost never the same people who want to commit totalitarian machine murder. these people are just sweet idiots, i sometimes think. it’s too bad that they would pretty much just let evil crush them like a tidal wave. after all, if it hasn’t happened, there’s always a chance it may never happen, and shame on you for talking about it. but what was the catalyzing event here? rising wheat prices? come on man. this was clearly coordinated by some one or some many who do not wish to be revealed yet, or ever. otherwise some group other than friggin el baradei, an arab dork, would have come forward with some political charm offensive by the New Party. but here there’s no party, but an “opposition,” and yet people aren’t getting bored. after all, if the tanks aren’t machine gunning the crowd, eventually it gets sort of boring. it almost shows things aren’t that bad if we’re all just hanging out here in Cairo, in February, which might be sort of nice and balmy. i mean i know it costs more for a falafel these days, but what, 50,000 Egyptians said, at once, “this falafel cost 5.99! let’s take down the government!!” come on man. there is a plot that willl not speak its name.
it seems in reality like there was some sort of breakdown in the security services. after all, they controlled the public continuously, and Egyptian life has never been that great to begin with. something in that relationship changed, because that Egyptian KGB is supposed to be really aggressive and effective. so why the difference now? something must have suddenly changed, and left the door open long enough.
http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/01/america_and_the_middle_east_fo.html
this is what opened the door. QE2 (and the collected follies of the liberal spenders) was the spark. the muslim brotherhood has been getting ready for decades …they run something like ACORN and community organizing when they aren’t machine-gunning tourists.
“And you wonder why those of us who have become conservatives no longer trust the great spokesmen of the American left/liberal intelligentsia.”
No wonder at all, Ron. In your youth, as a commie, you no doubt disdained the namby-pamby liberal intelligentsia (a bunch of Mensheviks!). Now, as you blog for/with the “hard conservatives” (as you call them), it must feel like old times.
Ron, here are some of those campus photos from the ’70s – and you are more right then you know in that the rhetoric has not changed, in fact it is word for word
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/tehranbureau/2009/09/post.html
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