Is the Jewish love affair with the Democratic Party about to end?
For all of my looooong life, the Jews have been so deep in the pocket of the Democratic Party it would make Chris Matthews blush. Maybe… just maybe… (I know old habits die hard)…. thanks to Barack Obama, that is about to end. The well-put lede from this morning’s WSJ opinion piece details the situation:
In recent weeks, the Obama Administration has endorsed “healthy relations” between Iran and Syria, mildly rebuked Syrian President Bashar Assad for accusing the U.S. of “colonialism,” and publicly apologized to Moammar Gadhafi for treating him with less than appropriate deference after the Libyan called for “a jihad” against Switzerland.
When it comes to Israel, however, the Administration has no trouble rising to a high pitch of public indignation. On a visit to Israel last week, Vice President Joe Biden condemned an announcement by a mid-level Israeli official that the government had approved a planning stage—the fourth out of seven required—for the construction of 1,600 housing units in north Jerusalem. Assuming final approval, no ground will be broken on the project for at least three years.
The Obama administration has taken the admonition to “Keep your friends close but your enemies closer” to a new level. They want to make love with their enemies while taking their friends to the woodshed and beating the living daylights out of them. And take them they did, time after time. First Biden, then Hillary, then some semi anonymous character at the State Department dressing down Ambassador Oren (talk about disrespecting your betters!), then on to the talk show circuit with the droning Gibbs and Obama’s “best Jew” David Axlerod. His other “best Jew” Rahm Emanuel was nowhere in evidence, as far as I know. (Interesting, that).
But back to my lede. Is the Jewish love affair with the Democratic Party about to end? I know many will be skeptical. And they should be. But I suspect something is brewing. This kind of excessive and weirdly paternalistic attitude to the state of Israel, directed so clearly from the top, seems to come out of a kind of unexamined personal animus. The long record that Obama has of friendship with virulent enemies of Israel has not gone unnoticed.
Whatever the etiology, group love affairs with political parties cannot help but be self-destructive. They may begin in a burst of mutual admiration but they will almost always devolve into a self-destructive “taking for granted” that could only work to the benefit of one party (if that). The love affair between African-Americans and the Democratic Party has been similarly useless for blacks. In the forty years I have lived in Los Angeles, I haven’t noticed life getting significantly better in South Central, a region of the city in which Republicans are about as scarce as killer whales.
This doesn’t mean I think Jews or blacks or anybody else should become Republicans. They should think for themselves and even change sides when it’s advantageous. For Jews, Obama’s behavior is indeed a “teaching moment.” The bizarre over-reaction to a minor incident in Israel should serve as a wake up call.
Will it? It won’t be easy to tell at first. The coming AIPAC meeting in Washington, at which Clinton and Netanyahu will speak, will undoubtedly contain a certain amount of nice-nice talk. But beneath the surface sands are shifting. We shall see if this morphs into a tectonic plate.
And then there’s Iran.
UPDATE: Eric Cantor speaks up. Also see John Podhoretz.
You, the more I watch politics the more it seems that you can predict the importance of something by how many people loudly and repeatedly say it doesn’t matter. The latest example of this rule, unfortunately, is the president’s middle name…
not likely: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ba-2JwnxIWI
No, unfortunately. It would seem that there is something in the Jewish psyche that prevents Jews from acting in their own best interest. Why else would Jews vote overwhelmingly for Democrats when the Democrat agenda is inimical to the best interests of Jews?
“And then there’s Iran”
And then there’s the entrepreneurial, fee enterprise spirit of the Jewish people. Will they remain in thrall to to an Administration openly committed to the destruction of our capitalistic system?
Well, AIPAC has been “unslumbered” (per the wonderful Jennifer Rubin, through Glenn at Instapundit, see below)
http://www.commentarymagazine.com/blogs/index.php/rubin/257041
And, putting Rahm on ice is notable, I believe, for the very reasons I outlined in the link to my prior comment. Nobody within my circle put the faintest weight into Axelrod’s presence as an “insurance policy” against the Brzezinski, Malley, Power, Rice, Khalidi, Wright etc., influence.
But, Roger…I think the world of you (and David Horowitz, Ron Radosh, and all the heroes who knew the inner workings of radical leftism…and have decided to shine a light on it), but it’s a quantum leap to believe that the vast majority of the Jewish population is willing to listen to reason.
The left in Europe have been making some pretty nasty noises for a while now…and the 75% left of center American Jewry has been deaf in one ear and can’t hear in the other.
This consistent “drift” toward hatred and blame of “Israel”, comes with the also very consistent “slippage” toward Muslim thuggery and even more disturbingly, toward outright animus against Jews in general.
Leftism is so ingrained in that very 75%, that acceptance of any stark truth about where leftism is headed or has already landed is inimical to their belief system.
Moreover, it appears very much more important to adhere to the tenets and “peer acceptance” of leftists, than toward Israel most certainly, and even being Jewish, more stunningly.
The grip on the “media” and “Hollywood” and “academia” mirrors this very phenomenon. Deeply entrenched leftist media would rather bleed red ink until death, than to accept truths about the warts, blemishes and ugliness within the leftist well.
Not surprisingly, some kneejerk types reflexively associate American Jews with all three leftist institutions…and then proceed to mix up cause and effect.
However, Roger…unless and until leftism becomes less important than truth, it will continue to be the more powerful “religious attachment” for the 75% American Jewish voter. Proof of this was the appalling silence when Joe Lieberman stood by his honor, integrity and principles…and was abandoned in droves, while being attacked viciously and maliciously. That 75% has abandoned religion…for a cult.
Most secular Jews (non-orthodox)are more leftist than Jewish.It is an enigma!
As a non-observant Jew (where I’m coming from), it has always seemed to me that most NOJews get their “religious” fix, if you will, from Socialism.
And if the whole 20th Century hasn’t taught them what a horrendous thing Socialism is, they will never abandon it, even if Israel is destroyed and/or Europe returns to pogroms. You can take that to the bank.
It’s safer to think one’s enemies are conservative Christians. In the heart of hearts, Jews know this is nonsense and they’re safe with conservative Christians. But pretending to fear them makes it unnecessary to worry about radical Islam and their left/prog allies who can and will–given the opportunity–do some serious damage.
Less strain to think the Beverly Hillbillies are your worst enemy.
i love to read the rantings of morons – thats you
I’ve given up hope in my co-religionists on this score. Wish I could be even as optimistic as you are, Roger. Maybe it’s because I’m also an academic — an even more hopeless demographic — but I just don’t see it happening. The growing anti-Israel and even anti-Semitic movement of the left notwithstanding. Alas.
I’m with Pedro on this one.
The Jewish love affair with the Democratic Party is not about to end. Too many American Jews identify with the pre-eminent principal of the Democratic Party – victimhood.
As you know, you are an exception. All my best Jewish friends are conservative. But I have Jewish family members who honestly view Zionism as Nazism and consider me a bigot and “war monger” for my unwavering support for Israel’s right to exist. I think Pedro above has it right, because I cannot explain it.
is that morons spelled like l i b e r a l s ” ?
I agree with Pedro @ #6…most Jews have as their primary identity Leftism, followed by their ethnicity. These Jews are perfectly willing to put Israel in the crosshairs to achieve domestic policy objectives, believing (wrongly, I believe) there is still time to overturn the policies hostile to the Jewish state. They are creating the Frankenstein’s monster that will destroy them, thinking, foolishly, that they will be able to control it.
No, it won’t end, because it’s an abusive relationship.
Abusive relationships are characterized, in part, by raging, verbal abuse, threats, lies, broken promises, power plays and control games.
In such relationships, the abuse is not constant, but cyclical, leading the abused party to believe, in the triumph of hope over experience, that this time was either isolated or really the last.
Abuse victims usually rationalize their way into staying in the relationship, either because they believe they’ll be alone forever if they go out on their own, that nobody decent will want them because they’re damaged goods, or because they con themselves into forgiving the abuser (unwittingly positively reinforcing the pattern of abuse).
This raises a question for Jewish Democrats: Looking over the history between Jews and Democrats, starting from when Roosevelt blocked emigration of Jews from Nazi Germany to the US and later forbade the Army Air Force from bombing rail lines leading to death camps – and American Jewish reactions – does anything about the pattern of abusive relationships sound familiar?
The Jews I know are all profoundly liberal, to the point of being communists. I think they do not care about Israel and are against Zionism. Unless the Republican party becomes pro-socialist, Jews will continue to be democrats. That’s how I see it, here in the south. And from what my son tells me, NYC is about the same – being Jewish equals being anti-Israel. So it goes. Will we miss Israel when Iran destroys it? I will, but I am in a distinct minority, apparently.
It is no secret why so many Jews are leftists- they are apostates! Israel has been reborn for 62 years now; there shouldn’t even be any Jews in America. Don’t mistake this for anti-Semitism, it’s Zionist zeal. Oh, sons and daughters of Israel, how much would your ancestors have loved the opportunity you now spurn! Return to your homeland, and seek the face of the Lord with a contrite heart, and hear the words of the prophets. When you hear and believe the words of the prophets, you shall see the Lord’s Salvation.
Church/Sate separation issues will always trump issues related to Israel for the American Jewish polity, at least on a national level. Locally, if the Republicans can field more candidates such as Mark Kirk in Illinois, then perhaps there is reason for some optimism.
If Jews abandoned the Democratic Party, that would be a long overdue development, but I’m not sure it will happen. I hear Jews griping about the policies of this administration… until they’re afrighted with the usual bugaboo of the “Republican/Christian Right”. Likewise with African-Americans, even as they are the ones being most hurt by the Democrats’ policies. Prejudices are hard to overcome.
#6 and #9 nail it perfectly. I’ve seen it firsthand all my life, in fact I see it every day and it makes me want to puke.
Gosh, you say people should “think for themselves” without benefit of media advice or official guidance? How the hell does THAT work? Sheesh.
I have never understood how my Jewish friends could be so smart, such good business people and good people in general, and simultaneously be so liberal. I’ve heard theories about Republicans in Congress blocking Jewish immigration in the 1920s, about guilt, about being religious. My friends point out that Catholics are usually thought of as liberal too. I guess it’s the Liberal / Progressive thing about “feeling good”.
These are the same people who worshiped the golden calf immediately following G-d’s redemption from Egypt. They pick their friends poorly.
From your mouth to God’s ears.
Cartoon – Israel and the U.S.: Best friends?
http://mideasttruth.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9636
I hope you are correct Roger. One day when it really hits the fan, American Jews will look around and realize that it is not the leftists that are their friends. Instead, it will be Bubba down the street with the pickup truck and crucifix in the kitchen, who will stand shoulder-to-shoulder with his Jewish neighbors.
Won’t happen…Most American Jews are womb to tomb Democrats.
If Jimmy Carter could not destroy the Jewish love for the Democrats, this guy won’t either. That said, Jews could go “only” 60/40 for Obama in 2012, instead of 78/22 as we did in 2008. That may not seem like much, but it is a switch of over 1.4 million votes. (4 million votes multiplied by .36).
Roger:
Wishful thinking. It never ceases to amaze me why Jews and blacks are so wedded to a political philosophy which is so inimical to their own interests, let alone the nation that bore and shelters them.
‘Tis truly one of life’s great mysteries.
Looks like for Jews it might one day come down to a snobbish choice between the Sarah Palins of the world who support Israel’s existence and the people with Ivy League degrees who either don’t or wonder if it’s worth all the trouble. If you are interested, Jennifer Rubin had a very perceptive piece you can find in Commentary titled something like “Why Jews Don’t Like Sarah Palin.” She doesn’t wear the right clothes, didn’t go to the right schools and speaks with a trailer park accent.
Roger:
Short answer: no.
Progressives sold out the Jews to the Nazis in 1939 and not only did they not protest but continue to support Stalin’s decision to this day.
American Jews should be thankful for the courageous efforts on Israel’s behalf by Harry Truman. But that was sixty-two years ago! Pragmatic politics is usually about answering this unavoidable question: what have you done for me lately? At the very best, Democrats like Bill Clinton may advocate well meaning policies that inadvertently get a lot of Israeli Jews murdered. Today’s Democratic Party is monopolized by leftists who believe the Israelis are victimizing the generally darker skinned Palestinians.
It’s the battered wife syndrome. They won’t leave the Rats. Look at the other large voting block, the Blacks. For the most part they vote straight Dem. And yet, you can not name one large law that the Repups did have to shove through. I guess the freebies outweighs Civil Rights.
Most Jews in the United States are secular and left leaning or progressive. It’s a shame that the Greatness of Judaism is being lived every day in Israel.
Secular Humanism is the new Jewish Faith outside the Orthodox Jewish Community. That leaves no room for Israel’s survival.
These Jews claim that they fear Chistianity and are ambivalent about IslamoFascism so long as it doesn’t disrupt their day.
Roger – From your mouth to G-d’s ear. Unfortunately, I think we Jews are in the shape posited by Emanuele Ottolenghi when he said today at Commentary’s Contentions: ‘We all remember former Secretary of State’s James Baker famous quip: “F— the Jews, they didn’t vote for us.” It looks to me that the current administration’s Israel policy is based on a variant of that quip—namely, “F— the Jews, they’ll vote for us anyway.”’
I’ve wondered, is a non observant Jew really a Jew? I also have my doubt’s about cafeteria Christians. I’ve had Catholic friends complain about parish shoppers. They hunt for loosey goosey parishes that won’t require much from them but to show up and put in some money. As my brother-in-law put it. If people don’t want to be observant protestants, Catholics, or Jews, why don’t they just all go over to the Unitarians and stop messing things up for the rest of us.
This rests on the presumption that Jews in the Democratic Party give a snot about Israel. Some do, but many don’t. Which is fine with me–I would be more disturbed if their domestic politics were wholly dependent on America’s treatment of a foreign ally.
What they should be disturbed about is this Admin’s incredibly backwards foreign policy. I know our country has a long and storied history of coddling our enemies and screwing our friends, but I don’t think any previous President has done so in such a blatant and purposeful manner. Are any of our allies happy with us? The British, the French, the Germans, the Poles, the Israelis, etc.–for some reason Obama has gone way out of his way to stick it to them. The other half of his foreign policy — make nice to our enemies and rivals — is going nowhere. Iran, Venezuela, China, Russia–they’ve all pretty much laughed in Obama’s face, or worse.
Roger, you write
I think the truth is simply that the O’Bumbler thinks that Syria and Libya (to name a couple) are his friends, whereas the evil Israelis are the world’s enemy. You may argue that this makes no sense, but you should always recall that The Big O is a Democrat, and therefore in many ways a loon.
I, for one, am just dying to know what a “healthy” relationship between Iran and Syria would look like (is it actually possible to have “healthy relations” between dysfunctional rogue states)?
I would also like to know what percentage of American Jews support the Jewish state of Israel and what percentage is, shall we say, embarrassed by it.
Third on this particular list: We’re told Jews gravitate to the Democrats because of Judaism’s tenet of “social justice.” Has it always been Judaism’s intent to have government compel such “justice” through the confiscation and redistribution of private property?
As for the “love affair,” we’ve been hearing about an imminent break-up for years now. I guess I’ll believe it when I see it.
Of course many Jews are hospitable to left-wing, even socialistic political structures. After all, look at what a paradise the old Soviet Union was for Jews.
Wait, what? Seriously? Oh, then, never mind.
FWIW,
Carter received about 65-75% of the Jewish vote in 1976 and then 40-50% of the vote of Jewish voters in 1980. This latter has been the lowest percentage since reasonably accurate estimates have been made.
Obama received about 70-80% of the vote of Jewish voters in 2008. Some of these votes (say 5%) were to feel righteous for voting for a black candidate and these would be up for grabs next time. Some other voters (say another 5%) just did it because ‘Obama seems so nice and maybe after this we won’t have to deal with so many quotas for blacks’. These votes would also be up for grabs. Other Jewish voters may be angry with either foreign policy or domestic policy (say another 15%.
On the other hand, as Pedro, JRavin, etc. note, a lot Jewish voters are basically hard core leftists and maybe anti Israel too. Obama won’t be losing these votes.
Thus, while the Jewish vote for Obama in 2012 could decrease to say 50%, it probably won’t get too much below that barring unforeseen circumstances.
On the other hand, the Jewish financial contributions to Obama, to the National Dem party, to the Dem Senate Campaign and the Dem House Campaign could tank badly. It is generally thought that big contributors tend to be more sensitive on Israel then the general Jewish voter.
Most American Jews I know have become reflexive Israel bashers over the last decade or two. Friends who did their time on the kibbutzim in the 60s and 70s are now perfectly comfortable bad-mouthing the “Zionist excesses” of their former spiritual home, while studiously ignoring the depravity of the “Palestinian” death cult culture. It’s no secret that leftism has become the religion of most American Jews. And as American leftism has become less liberal and more anti-American, more anti-capitalist, more friendly toward tyrants who spout leftist rhetoric or claim “multi-cultural”-type “oppression, the Jews have followed along. Blindly, in my opinion.
American Jews may be smarter and more educated than the average bear, but we should all be waking to the fact that intelligence and “education” are readily trumped by culture, group think, character and fixed worldviews. Jews are no more immune to that fact than anyone else.
The Jews are not going to abandon the Democrats in sugnificant numbers, because they are far too locked into what has become the accepted leftist worldview. And most American Jews idetify with that worldview far more than they do with anything that could meaningfully be called Jewish.
A friend of mine who is Jewish once told me that a large number of American Jews don’t strongly support Israel because it’s somehow not seen as the “legitimate” establishment of Zion (because the Messiah didn’t show up yet, or something like that). They also noticed that many US Jews look down strongly on their Middle Eastern counterparts, giving lip-service support to Israel but failing to back them up on anything substantive (such as defensable borders or self-defense measures).
If Israel’s got a true friend in the world it’s gotta be the Evangelicals here in the US, and not those in the American Jewish community. There’s no small amount of irony in that.
I haven’t yet been to Israel, but I’m betting that I would feel so much more comfortable and welcome there than with the Jews in NYC, having spent 10 years there.
As the saying goes, there are no permanent allies (or enemies) only permanent interests. Obama may not represent the majority view of Democrats. Unfortunately the executive branch makes foreign policy.
There are Jews who take Judaism seriously, they tend to be conservative politically, open to alliances with Gentile conservatives, and inclined to be pro-Israel.
The Jews whose Judaism is watered down, or are Jews only ethnically, as Pedro et al have observed, are more likely to have Leftism as their religion than Judaism. And Leftists are nowadays anti-Semitic. For the Jewish Leftist to wake up, they have to lose their faith in Leftism.
Most of Israel’s friends in America are Christians. The Israel lobby is disjoint from the Jewish lobby, which is something a lot of the political class is blind to.
There’s no Jewish love affair with the Democratic Party. The “love” isn’t mutual; it’s strictly one-sided, a sordid, squalid, degrading, unrequited, and to top it off, deadly infatuation.
As a Russian Jew, I can tell you that Russian Jews (particularily those that immigrated to the US) are among the most right-wing in the world. This did not happen over night, but the Jews in Russia went from pro-communist in the 1920ies to very anti-communist in the 1940ies. I believe American Jews are destined to follow the same route.
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American Jews have put generations of effort into the Democrat party, for various reasons including idealistic ones, and still have considerable influence in it as well as ideological alignment with it on many issues.
Quitting the Democrats could also mean American Jews’ finding themselves increasingly ignored or opposed by the much of the American academic-media-Democrat complex where they have been long at home.
American Jews do have an interest in holding the line within the Democrat party not only against anti-Israel influences but also against potential increase of anti-Semitic influences within the Democrat party.
Absolutely not! Beaten and abused girlfriends/wives are more timid of rushing back into the arms of their “manly” abusers than western Jews are in abandoning their commitment to the failed dogma of liberalism reflected in today’s Democrat party. What would their in-laws think? They are in it for the long haul – or at least until they begin to think for themselves.
Roger, you note that things haven’t been getting better in South-Central L.A. But that’s all been taken care of, because for the last few years it’s been officially referred to as “South L.A.” No more problems in South-Central L.A.!
I forgot that, Sowell Disciple. Thanks for reminding me.:)
Will try to do better in the future.
Maybe domestic agenda concerns drive Jewish voters to the Democratic party and US Israel relations take a back seat to that. Also consider the amount of aid we give to Israel and the amount of aid we have bribed Egypt with to stay on friendly terms with Israel. That aid comes with strings and one of those strings is being held to a higher standard than those we are less generous with. I think that most Jews are smart enough to understand this when making their political calculus.
Is the Jewish love affair
with the Democratic Party
about to end?
One might as well ask: What is a Jew ?
Solidarity does not seem to be a
defining characteristic.
The Democratic plan to make the Rich
support the Poor may do the trick,
once tax rates, and expectations of entitlements, begin their mutually
reinforcing rise.
There is something unseemly about a discussion of jewish people struggling with a dual loyalty to the state of israel and marxist ideology. In neither case does the better interests of the united states take a place on the balancing scale.
I guess liberalism in america is all about self-loathing… Ack, I can’t go on–what a mess.
Observant Jews see Obama with real clarity. Israeli Jews see Obama with real clarity; Russian Jews see Obama with real clarity. Non Observant American Jews, I would guess 2/3 left one third right. But 70% of American Jews will get bad vibes on this administration. If we make through to another election, Obama may not even get the nomination and it is hard to conceive of a Repulican that could lose to Obama in 2012…As bad as he is, the Republicans may take both houses in November.
Let us recap: EU/US demand no Jews in parts of Jerusalem!
… while the US/EU claim to be at war (Iraq/Afghan) with the same terrorist they demand set up a state on the West Bank/Gaza.
One can only conclude that the US/EU soldiers are in fact human sacrifice to the Islime G-d and that this war is in fact a phoney “nice Long lasting War and sell lots of weapons” exactly as I informed every member of congress between 1989-1991. c 1991 getty…
We send army men to die fighting people; while we demand that that same enemy/people set up a terror state on the West Bank and Gaza exactly like the States we are fighting/human sacrifice…this is “bazaar…
Yes, Russian Jews are indeed very right-wing and generally consider their American counterparts suicidal idiots.
Perhaps we should not keep asking the question: when will the Jewish people see the light and vote Republican? As a Christian Zionist, I am more concerned about Israel than any particular politial party. Partisan politics does not mean a hill of beans in this instant. I just ask the Jews reading this to get involved and work inside the Democratic Party to cleanse it of its anti-semitism – tell the Administration to knock it off. Failure to do so results in Rev. Wright followers becoming President. The Dem party should never have nominated such an abomination.
Based on a couple of interesting comments, I will note that the local republicans are mostly evangelical christians and in their literal interepretation of the received word of god in the bible, they have been directed to support israel.
One was so crass as to hint that I might be of nazi heritage because I questioned the amount of foreign aid we give to israel. All I can say is that the bible didn’t mention a specific dollar amount, to my knowledge…
So, as I said, a weird world of confused loyalties and enemies.
One last comment in reference to a question posted in the comments. A jewish classmate explained to me that the sole component of being jewish was having a jewish mother. A jewish father is not sufficient. I interepret it as something both racial and heriditary.
Observance doesn’t play much of a role in that definition.
Maybe 100 years ago, 75 years ago, people could be found in mainstream Christian circles who were overtly, even viciously, anti-Semitic. Perhaps this is the Jewish institutional memory at work, ‘never forget’ and all that stuff.
But in modern times it is unlikely the world will find a more complete devotion to Israel than that among American evangelical Christians. I wonder sometimes if we Christians are not more devoted to the Jewish nation than are American Jewish people.
I think Norman Podhoretz has it right; political leftism IS a religion, and it is MORE important to many Jews than their Jewish religion, in America at least.
I hope and pray that the impending doom of the nation of Israel has their attention now. It is entirely a product of slavish Democrat devotion to courting Islam. I believe that a good part of Dem devotion to Islam stems directly from secular leftism’s furious dislike of CHristianity, and desire to ally with the enemies of Christianity in order to diminish its influence. But Islam is not the only hater of Jews; secular leftists hate them just as much and are just as interested in the end of Israel.
The Democrat party has declared unofficial war on Israel. I have little hope that American Jews will act on this, but more hope than before..
I don’t think it matters if Jewish people stop supporting the Democrat party. Jews make up less than 3% of the American people.
It is Christian support of Israel that is important. Mostly here in the United States.
But also in the rest of the world, all TRUE Christians support the worlds only Jewish state.
And Christians do so joyously because one of the best ways of showing our love of Jesus is to love his People.
Unfortunately for his immortal soul, our President spent too much time learning Rev. Wright’s “lessons”.
Is the Jewish love affair with the Democratic Party about to end?
Of course not. Being a Liberal Jew in America is an emotional luxury, the cost being born by others who will not allow the antisemitic ‘progressives’ to indulge in their more murderous thoughts- hopefully. It’s a free-rider problem.
While my religious beliefs provide more than enough reason to bless Israel and the Jewish people, I can think of many secular reasons to draw close to Israel and away from our enemies. Israel is our strategic ally in a world war against islamic fanaticism; Israel is a liberal and open democracy made up of immigrants and people from all over the world – very similar to the United States; and Israel is a nation of technical and economic achievement unparalleled with the exception of perhaps the U.S. The Palestinians instead cheer the American pain of 9-11 and the decapitation of Daniel Pearl.
i personally know a young Jewish feller, a doctoral candidate at University of Texas, who despite being pretty liberal has just in the last week or two joined the GOP –why? i think he’s become offended by the Democratic party crime spree despoiling the halls of the Constitution, and wants to oppose that movement.
Along that line of thinking, and considering that the Dems and the Mob are increasingly boldly blended down at Union Hall as well as Wall Street, it would be natural for a moderate wing of the GOP to emerge completely free of the old white-shoes country-club Rockefeller WASP ridiculousness.
Ain’t gonna happen. The modern Left, and Obamanoids in particular, are virulently anti-Semitic, and yet almost every single white member of Obama’s inner cirlce is a Jew. This pathology goes back to Trotsky, Radek, Bukharin, Kaganovich, and a million other early communists in Russia. The reason, while hard to square with the instinct of self-preservation, is nevertheless obvious: their religion is radical marxism, not Judaism, and religion always comes first.
Forget it.
My Jewish friends are all conservative, my non-Jewish friends are all liberal. Go figure!
This topic cannot be complete without mentioning N. Podhoritz excellent “Why Are Jews Liberals”. My background growing up (Nordic Christian in a hugely Jewish neighborhood) demanded my reading it.
So there is this identification with victims, this belief in a new secular religion based on law and reason, and I must include Alan Dershowitz’s sorry apologia about being a Democrat because Jews need to stay on the proper side of the Throne in order to retain influence. …and always on the winning side no matter how badly you shoot yourself in the foot, I might add.
I had an acquaintance a long time ago who served in the Luftwaffe. It was most enlightening to hear another side of that old argument that was so horrendously destructive in its consequences. I told him “Well, we shall see….they have their own nation now, and if you are correct, it will soon come undone.”
Most sadly I must say that may old friend just may have been correct. I guess Jews were meant to wander in the wilderness until the advent of the Messiah. Not in my lifetime, at least.
My Jewish friends are all conservative and my non-Jewish friends are all liberal. Stephen Harper changed the way a lot of Canadian Jews view the liberal party…. a lot switched over when he got elected.
I don’t believe most Jews care much about Israel. Those that do for the most part vote Republican. Hillary Clinton is no friend of Israel, never has been. She mouthed the right platitudes when she was New York’s Senator, but I always thought that was for show. Same with Obama. His antipathy to Israel should have been obvious to all Jews and I believe it was. It was evidence of lack of interest most Jews have in Israel. Sad to say, but Israel must rely on the friendship of Christians for its support in the U.S., most (but definitely not all) Jews, really couldn’t care less. So long as the right platitudes are mouthed at the Jewish organization shindigs, Obama & Co. is free to stab Israel in the back, front and whereever it wants to.
I find it hard to believe my last post invoked exclusion considering some of the screed uncensored from above, so I will try this again to make sure there wasn’t some glitch.
Not going to happen Roger.
Even my Conservative Jewish friends scratch their head trying to explain this paradox: Evangelical Christians when taken as a collective care a lot more about the well being of Israel than most American Jews.
If most American Jews can’t connect the dots between a blatant Jew hater like Jeremiah Wright and a good standing member of his church sitting in the congregation faithfully for twenty years, or a bigot like Abraham Foxman sending out fund raising letters proclaiming Evangelical Christians a threat to Jewry, why should I be expect most American Jews to not see Obama as no friend to Israel before they pull the lever?
I think we should just forget about the relationship of American Jews to Israel and move on. American Jews are not going to help Israel. Forget them (especially Jewish elites.) They’re finished. Any Jew who feels strongly about his identity should strongly consider moving to Israel.
Israel will prevail if it stays strong and doesn’t buckle under to Europe and the current US government. However, it must get its birthrate up (new housing in Jerusalem, anyone? Who is having all the children in Israel?)
Sadly, American Jews are destined to shrink further and further as a group. Zionism has certainly been vindicated, hasn’t it?
Liberal Jews hate American values, then complain about being treated as outsiders.
I have said as much on another PJM thread but I am a hard-core American Zionist Jewish supporter of Israel and always will be.
At the risk of sounding like some J Street liberal I would like to say some things important to me.
I support the two state solution, as has every Israeli government for a long time now. There is no other way.
Bibi screwed up here but I think he was blindsided by his own administration. He is doing his best at damage control today.
Roger Simon is correct to point out that this is not just about the Palestinians yet Israel has never been in a better negotiating position and may have blown a big opportunity. I cannot see how this charged ill-timed announcement about more disputed real estate helps with the threat from Syria, Hamas, Iran or the rest.
Jerusalem need not be divided in a formal sense but who can look upon the ugly concrete barrier and help but think that this is not what we should be achieving in the end.
I cannot help but think that Bibis government is committed to nothing more than the status quo, resting on the laurels of the leadership and sacrifices which have gone on before it and continue every day. Many Israelis are tired of this. It would be a good time to move on.
I am worried that in Israel there is near civil war between Jews. The government cannot make decisive moves. The gulf between Tel-Aviv and Yerushalayim is as big as the one from there to Damascus.
I do not know if there is sufficient political power in Israel to initiate a real peace. The situation is worse on the other side, yet there should be no diplomatic schism between the US and Israel now.
Israel needs a leader. Netanyahu does not look so good right now.
“If I am not for myself, who will be for me?
If I am not for others, what am I?
And if not now, when?”
Rabbi Hillel
Spindok
Being a big supporter of Israel didn’t help Nixon, Reagan or Bush.
63 is correct. I have been involved in many Baptist churches over the years and they have all, without exception, been strongly in support of Israel.
Contrast that with the hate filled church that Mr. Obama attended in Chicago for 20 years.
72. Jane says: “I think we should just forget about the relationship of American Jews to Israel and move on. American Jews are not going to help Israel. Forget them (especially Jewish elites.) They’re finished. Any Jew who feels strongly about his identity should strongly consider moving to Israel.”
There is a large component of truth in that claim. But I see signs of change among people who have been gobsmacked by reality. Many of them remain quiet, largely because their opinions are unwelcome. But change is coming. The Jewish elites have replaced Jewish identity with left-liberal identity, which is why they don’t dare change party loyalty. But increasing numbers of American Jews are rediscovering, and seriously exploring, Jewish identity. It’s a grassroots movement, and it is very serious.
Got into this conversation late.
NOPE
The problem with the 2-state solution is, no one in the Arab world, including Palestinians, really seems to want a Palestinian state. If they wanted one, they would be building an infrastructure and an economy.
“Being a big supporter of Israel didn’t help Nixon, Reagan or Bush.”
Perhaps not, but it was the right thing to do.
“Is the Jewish love affair with the Democratic Party about to end?”
Unfortunately, no.
83: ahem: I agree with you. My point was only that the article is fatuous. Support of Israel has never meant much to voters who fancy the democratic party as home for dozens of reasons.
The American jews act like they have a wish to see Israel attacked . Self hating ?
One word. Teshuvah. There is always the possibility that a Jew will realize the true nature of the left and return to G-d.
Unfortunately, Mr. Simon, what I see are American Jews who forget Jerusalem and worship New York, Monsey, Los Vegas. They are the vast majority of American Jews.
America has already struck the iceberg, and is beginning to sink – but the American Jews don’t see this – or don’t want to see this. They will wake up when it is too late – when their non-Jewish neighbors blame them for the collapse of America and want their pound of flesh.
Do remember, Mr. Simon, that our sages tell us that the Redemption will be patterned after the Exodus from Egypt. The ninth plague – which featured palpable darkness for the Egyptians, also featured the death of the four fifths of the Israelites who did not believe in G-d. This ninth plague will be repeated in America.
P T Bull writes, “One last comment in reference to a question posted in the comments. A jewish classmate explained to me that the sole component of being jewish was having a jewish mother. A jewish father is not sufficient. I interepret it as something both racial and heriditary.” And toad writes, “I’ve wondered, is a non observant Jew really a Jew? I also have my doubt’s about cafeteria Christians.”
Jews are a curious bunch (I know, as I’m one of them) in that they’re at the same time a faith and a people. They belong to that people even if they don’t “walk the walk”. But as Bull would observe if he strolled the Tel Aviv boardwalk, Jews don’t fit a racial category. Those who immigrated from India or Ireland, China or Chicago, Yemen or Yugoslavia don’t all look like the folks from Sunday brunch. Judaism hasn’t actively promoted proselytizing, but converts have for millennia joined this “people”. I count a number of converts as friends.
As to Roger’s question, I would say “sadly no”. Obama in the last week has shown himself to be worse than Carter, but most of those who repudiated the Democrats in 1980 still recalled the Holocaust, the birth of Israel, or – as in my case – the Six Day War. Young secular Jews who have had the Arab and Palestinian narrative drilled into them have no such memories.
As to Dudley’s Jewish friend who suggests Israel isn’t legitimate because the Messiah hasn’t come, that was a sentiment among some Orthodox of the late 19th and early 20th century, but the Holocaust undermined that notion. (It still holds sway among the anti-Zionists of the small Neturei Karta sect, less so among the non-Zionist ultra-Orthodox).
The Democrats do not care that they’re about to lose the Jews. They don’t NEED them anymore. They have the power. They’re about to ram through this health care bill. Pelosi and Obama do not believe they’ll ever have to fight a real election, again; they give evidence of it, every day. So now, they can shed those they never much cared for to begin with. Israel, of course, is screwed.
Obama macht frei.
@ 33 David Thomson:
“At the very best, Democrats like Bill Clinton may advocate well meaning policies that inadvertently get a lot of Israeli Jews murdered.”
Bill never meant well. The murders were to be expected. Arafat and Clinton both told lies. Each had a crooked tongue, but Bill and Hillary can spew lies out of their asses also now.
“Is the Jewish love affair with the Democratic Party about to end?”
Let’s fervently hope so.
Nowhere, anywhere — even the MSM, of which I am a (thankfully, recovering former) participant, has there been worse ideological prostitution.
Real men don’t eat quiche, and real Jews aren’t into self-flagellation.
As naturalized US citizen and a Jew I newer
understood the love affair of American Jews
with the Democrats/socialists. In this moment of American history if the American Jews don’t see the light, they never will. If I’m
not for me who will.
I have been to Israel and Occupied Territories in January of 1996 and brought peace and health to the troubled area with my prayer group of 80 strong. I am a 4th Degree Knight of Columbus, the Roman Catholic lay fraternity with over a million members worldwide, and I have served honorably as a member of the Board of Directors of The Victims of Pan Am Flight #103, and lobbied for and obtained travel and economic sanctions against the anti-American terrorist nations of Iran,Libya and Syria which conspired and paid for the bombing of Pan Am Flight #103, 1988 Lockerbie, Scotland.Former Sec. State Albright, National Security Adviser Sandy Berger, and UN Ambassador Bill Richardson have all met with me professionally and other members of the victims’ families to prosecute the case against the foreign War Criminals, and got many changes in aviation and security law, and got the indicted suspects to trial in the Scottish court in The Netherlands.Unfortunately only one agent was convicted for the violent deaths of 270 innocents, and he, Abdel Basset Ali Megrahi was let go in a poor decision by a Scottish official who may have caved in to English oil and petroleum interests. Readers should boycott and or divest from Exxon-Mobil, Amerada Hess, Royal Dutch Shell, BP,and Occidental Petroleum, and should support my campaign for The US House this year: Dan Tobin for Congress, 115 Atlantic Ave Apt 2A,Hempstead,NY 11550-1204. Thanks in advance for your time and cooperation, and I hope you will blog for me and campaign for me in any and all available media,as I need all the good publicity I can get so I can preserve, protect and defend the United States Constitution.Respectfully Yours in Faith,Freedom and Health, Dan Tobin
As a NYer, I know lots of regular-joe Jewish people. Amog them runs a strong strain of belief in the invincibility of Israel bred by the huge martial successes of the 60′s and 70′s. I think that to some extent they publicly tow the progressive line, while secretly they are very proud of Israel. It’s a form of denial, of hubris fostered in part by the remarkable achievements of Jews in the public sector (Nobel’s etc). Accusations of nazi-like behavior in Israel hits the American Jewish psyche right at its moral center. Baseless accusations like that are a very potent force for controlling behavior.
cfbleachers and roger: Just a couple weeks ago both of you attacked me for saying much of what has been said here today-including by both of you too. I feel validated and vindicated by what I read.
The newest religion for most Jews is liberalism, now becoming left wig socialism. Most of these dopes will still vot for Obama. What will it take them to learn?
“American Jews have for years crushed Christians and Catholics in this country with their lawsuits over our holidays. So now how does it feel to be the minority group who is battered by yet another minority group?
Blotto, not sure if your memory of what you said is the same as mine. Is that above quote the one you feel “validated and vindicated” about making?
Because if you feel “validated and vindicated” by anything I have written in Roger’s last two essays…I need to go back and do some editing of my words.
You wrote “too bad” about Ambassador Oren being shouted down and suggested that the orchestrated interruption was by one or more Jewish students. (wrong)
And then went on a lark about Christian and Catholic holidays being crushed by Jews.
I am at a loss to make the connection between my comments in the past couple of essays by Roger…and any comment I made to you in your rant about being sick of Roger writing columns related to anti-Israel sentiment and behavior. Again, perhaps I am not remembering something I wrote…it would surprise me if there is any, even remote connection.
Nothing Obama does will change the fact that 70-80% of Jews reflexively vote Democrat.
Why does Saint David Petraeus hate Israel? (http://tinyurl.com/ychp5vo)
I await a MoveOn-style attack from Roger, but it won’t come. He’ll just go on saying the President of the United States is an anti-Semite and a traitor, without saying so outright, of course. Nice work if you can get it.
I’m skeptical. There were plenty of indications of Obama’s antipathy toward Israel during (and even more before) the election, if anyone cared to look. Obama’s legacy in this arena is likely to be a nuclear Iran. Let’s just hope there is still is a viable Israel when he leaves office.
You would think that most Jews by now would have switched their party affiliation to Republican. But it has not happened and won’t happen. I deal with a lot of very, very intelligent liberal Jews in Manhattan. They care more about their left wing politics than they do for Israel, even though the left wing today is becoming increasingly anti-Semitic. Conservative Republican Christians are far better friends to Israel than liberal Democrat Jews.
In general the American Jews will stay loyal to the Democrat party to their grave. And I sadly mean that literally.
G*d, I hope so! Leftists only view Jews as useful idiots at best and people to be controlled or elinated at worst.
Reluctantly
NO
Why do we object to Israel building housing for Israelis within the borders of Israel? That’s like China objecting to new housing being built for Americans in San Diego.
If the arabs cared one bit about the palestinians, they’d give them some of their own land instead of using them to take over Israel. The lands in dispute were lost by the arabs in the wars in which the arabs tried to exterminate Israel. If you launch a war of aggression and lose, the land you lost doesn’t belong to you anymore. That’s the price you pay for losing.
Unfortunately no.
I have a explanation that many posters will not like. I don’t think Roger will like it either.
Jews as a group fear and hate Christians. Much of hate is well deserved but that hate began long before Christianity became a sanctioned religion in Rome. Any Jew educated in the faith, whether he practices or not, knows that Judaism has a messianic component. The Messiah will come. Deep down inside every Jew must acknowledge that Jesus could have been that Messiah.
Every educated Jew and educated Christian knows that for Christianity to be true, Judaism must be true. You cannot use the Jewish scriptures to refute Christianity because it all boils down to a child’s argument “is too…is not.” The Jewish solution to this problem presented itself with the rise Marxist thought in the 19th Century. Marxism kills off the Jews and Judaism makes Christianity null and void. Jews flocked to socialism because it destroys the hated other. This is why Jews as a group will never abandon the Democratic Party. It has become the vessel of Marxism in America.
Jews started to abandon Israel in the late 1970s because of the election of Menachem Begin. Begin hated Communism more then anything else. His autobiography is called “White Nights” after the time he spent as a Polish POW in Kolmya which is known as the Auschwitz of the Soviet Union. He hated the Communists because they aided Hitler and made the Holocaust possible. It is more important for Jews to support socialism regardless of how anti-Semitic it becomes because to do otherwise would result in a total collapse of their world view. Never going to happen. Jews have been in the past, and are today, the most loyal Stalinists in the world of Communist believers. The irony being that Stalin was preparing to finish the job that Hitler started. Jews never learn that Socialism be it of International or National variant is dedicated to making the planet Judenrein.
#17,speaking of Jewish voters said, “They are creating the Frankenstein’s monster that will destroy them, thinking, foolishly, that they will be able to control it.
Bingo. What we have is a Golem created and paid for by liberal Jews. What follows is predictable. Thank G-D the Christian villagers have torches.
Steven
Steven from Indiana
Look at what Jewish “progressive-ism and social justice” got them form an anti Jew Europe…some 65 years ago. Do they still think “getting along” with their enemies will gain spare them from this centuries new ovens being prepared for them by Iran or the PalaGoofistans? Wake up Jews….look around France and Germany again…Great Britain….the Netherlands…..they want you dead and gone!
#90 Raymond in DC. Thanks for your insight. It does not surprise me that my comperehensive survey of one Jew on the true nature of judaism is not the only word on the subject. I have before commented that my sense was that jewish self-identity was in the nature of racial and hereditary, and I think people interpret that too literally.
The original discussion about who is in fact a MOT (Member of the Tribe) was in the context of a law school classmate who derived much attention from being talking about being jewish and a member of a victim class. His father only was jewish, and we derived much enjoyment from telling him he wasn’t jewish and therefore not a member of a victim class–and his consternation thereof. It was all in good fun, but I did learn something. In any case, he is a very successful lawyer now, and I imagine the jewish race is proud to count him among their number.
Oops, I mean ‘jewish people’, not ‘jewish race’.
“They should think for themselves and even change sides when it’s advantageous.”
I’m sorry, but one of the biggest problems in our political climate is the tribalization of people into opposing groups, vying to trump the “rights” of other groups.
The only side any individual should be on, regardless of race, religion, etc. is the side of individual rights.
Oh Please.
I’m inlaws with some of the richist most well connected Jews in L.A. Or I was anyway.
Now I’m nearly anti-semitic. Actually no. Because these pukes in L.A. who call themselves Jews are a disgrace to the Patriarchs. They aren’t even Jews In Name Only. More like Children of Herod. I’m anti-fake-Jew.
They are so sold out to the Devil they have no idea what they do. It’s really sickening.
I wouldn’t hold my breath waiting for that kiss to end.
Roger:
Based on the New York City experience, I would say the short-term answer is ‘yes’, and the long term answer is ‘no’.
When David Dinkins was elected mayor over Rudy Giuliani in 1989, he ran on the same type of non-specific platitudes Barack Obama ran on in 2008 — Dinkins’ promise, instead of “Hope and Change” was to turn New York City into a “Gorgeous Mosaic”. But just like Obama, the non-threatening personality that allowed guilty white liberals to feel good about voting for the first African-American mayor of New York made him incapable of challenging the more radical parts of his core supporters, including those in Brooklyn who staged the Crown Heights attacks in 2000.
Dinkins’ fear of offending his left wing left him open to charges that he condoned the anti-Semitic violence, and a year later, ended up shifting enough Jewish votes (but not all) to Giuliani that allowed him to win the rematch for mayor. But at the same time it didn’t switch New York Jewish voters’ loyalties away from the Democrats long-term, just for as long as Dinkins was in Gracie Mansion.
That’s the likely outcome here if Obama keeps pushing his policy towards the Arab states and away from Israel. He’ll lose some, but not all American Jews in the 2012 election, and perhaps enough to swing a few northeastern states like New Jersey, Connecticut or even New York to whomever the Republican nominee is two years from now. But it won’t switch their allegiances from the Democrats over the long-haul, in part because the mindset poster #113 mentions above.
They’ll feel that once Obama is gone they can take “their” party back, but some are going to find the anti-Semitic left isn’t going to forgive the Jewish community very quickly for abandoning Barack at his time of need — and, if you look at New York City and those same undercurrents of hostility dating back to 1993, is a small part the reason why it’s now been 21 years since a candidate on the Democratic Party line has won a New York City mayoral election. New York Jews will still vote Democratic by default, but they’re now much more cautious about who they vote for when it comes to the elected positions they actually pay serious attention to.
The jewish community should admire Ayn Rand and NOT Karl Marx (both Jews, btw)
Maybe the Jews of the Left don’t consider themselves Jews any longer or maybe JINOs [Jews In Name Only]?
Jews fret about cultural genocide (by Christian America) then leave their faith in large numbers.
Can anyone make sense of that one?
Many of correctlyl stated that Leftism and Liberalism are the religion de jour of US Jews. I fear that, like European Jews of the ’30s, US Jews are oblivious to just how strong the rise of anti-Semitism is in this world, stemming from the ‘Red-Green’ alliance, as Caroline Glick so aptly describes it. ‘Building the Golem that will destroy them’.. yep, that is sadly what I see as well.
We never learn….
-And, the whole bizarro abandoning of Israel by many Leftist Jews is sad and self-defeating.
How do [and why SHOULD] Israeli Jews make ‘peace’ with people who inherently HATE them no matter WHAT? Give a mouse a cookie and he wants a glass of milk! You CANNOT WIN when people still regard you as an ENEMY no matter how many inches you give.
The abysmal truth is that anti-antisemitism runs deep in the psyche of the sleestack as well as those Islam lovin’ child touchers.
EDIT:
anti-antisemitismAmerican Jews are not going to leave the Democratic party, because most of them AGREE with the Democrats about Israel. They have internalized the liberal guilt of being a white American, therefore to blame for everything that goes wrong for everyone who isn’t them. They don’t like Republicans or conservatives, who refuse to be guilt-mongered in this way, who even are unabashedly proud of Western Civilization.
To liberals, this looks like boorishness and stupidity. If conservatives were sensitive and nuanced and knew their Howard Zinn, they would know how bad America is and would feel guilty too. American liberal Jews – my friends and family and community- are very very proud of their intelligence and knowledge of history and emotional sensitivity. That’s why most of them voted for Obama, and continue to make excuses for him past all reason. So they don’t want to hang around bumpkins who not only never read Noam Chomsky but who hunt animals with guns.
They are ambivalent about Israelis who all know how to use guns. It’s been two generations since most American Jews have been working-class, so while they think it’s great that in Israel even the plumber and factory worker is Jewish, they would no more hang out with plumbers in Israel than they would in America. They identify with Israeli Leftist intellectuals who agree with Euro-Leftists on everything else and therefore tempted to adopt their views of Israel as well so as not to alienate themselves.
This is really the classic Jacob/Esau split. Jacob was a sensitive mama’s boy, Esau was a coarse hunter with impulse control issues. Woody Allen vs Chuck Norris. Barack Obama vs Sarah Palin – in their eyes. They can’t admit Palin is smart and civilized, because their Jacob/Esau dichotomy would fall apart. Your average American liberal Jew really thinks Republicans are uncivilized fanatical religious fundamentalists prone to oppressive power grabs if allowed. They can excuse anything from Democrats – even amtisemitism – because they think in the end they can appeal to Democrats with reason and good faith, because Democrats have those qualities (they think) and Republicans don’t.
Roger, it ain’t never gonna happen, for reasons well-documented by Norman Podhoretz in his book “Why Are Jews Liberals?”
I’ll go a step further and state unequivocally that my landssmen are so twisted they’d vote for Hitler as long as he were non-white.
RE 114/Steven from Indiana:
[...] Bingo. What we have is a Golem created and paid for by liberal Jews. What follows is predictable. Thank G-D the Christian villagers have torches. [...]
Golem – don’t be so negative, Steve.
Just spent a week in Prague and walked by the Altneu Synagogue –
Regards -
Deep down inside every Jew must acknowledge that Jesus could have been that Messiah.
This is baloney. More to the point, the Jew-hatred of the Christians for over 1,700 has proven to us the falseness of their claims. One does not murder off a brother in faith. And this is precisely what Christians have done.
NOW, a few Christians, realizing their messiah has not shown up, but unable to give up the communion crackers and wine, are realizing the importance of Judaism to their culture. One, even sent in a note here. A few of them, realizing the ultimate irrelevance and idiocy of trying to connect Greek paganism to Jewish ethics, have walked away from Christianity altogether, becoming Noahides, or in some cases converting altogether.
The answers to Jews becoming JINO’s in America is very simple. The emigrants from Russia who tossed their t’fillin over the boat when they saw the Statue of Liberty have never forgiven the rabbis of the small villages of the Pale for siding with the Jewish businessmen in exploiting poor Jews. They make saints of the holocaust victims – who weren’t saints – and they condemn G-d. And now, the lot of them don’t care about G-d’s promise. They have rejected His Land and Torah Covenant. They have rejected their own heritage. That is why so many of them will die.
Couldn’t agree more. Obama just lost my vote. This whole incident has been a complete eye opener and I now plan on voting republican for the first time in my life. I’m all for giving him the benefit of the doubt but he has repeatedly shown a rudeness and disregard for the well being of Israel.
“….Any Jew educated in the faith, whether he practices or not, knows that Judaism has a messianic component. The Messiah will come. Deep down inside every Jew must acknowledge that Jesus could have been that Messiah…”
No, it’s inherent in Judaism that Jesus couldn’t have been the Messiah, because the Messiah hasn’t come yet. How do we know? Look at the world. The Messiah comes at the end of history and ushers in a utopia. So no Jew thinks Jesus was the Messiah, by definition. Unless they get confused by Jews for Jesus types.
Jews fear Christians for very good reasons – Christians persecuted us badly for centuries, precisely because we were supposed to see the error of our ways and convert, and we refused to. Initially, proto-christians were heretics, with some beliefs which were contrary to Judaism, so were scorned the way apostates usually are by the establishment, then later they made a formal break with Judaism, gained power and began persecuting their former community, which was a bitter pill.
However, mainstream Christianity has mostly abandoned the ideas that Jews need to be “completed” by accepting Christ, and doesn’t go around forcibly converting anyone anymore, but many liberal Jews haven’t gotten the message. Or they feel safe with liberal Christians, but the “Religious Right “is still a threat, because…see my previous post.
Meanwhile, Islam is a non-Western religion (which if you are a guilty liberal makes it “better”), which persecuted Jews just as much if not more, but that history hasn’t been popularized that much. Liberal Jews are slowly having to admit that Islam is a bigger threat than Christianity, but with Islam they can always imagine that white Westerners are at fault in making Islam so…rightwing. So they still fear Christians more, who are in part architects of that Western Civilization which oppresses everyone else (they think).
I have read every post although I should be sleeping by now. I have been plagued by the question of Jews binding themselves to the left with such fervency. My Jewish brother in law considers Israel an outlaw of sorts, and sides with her enemies. I have wanted to shake him awake to the danger he is in. It is as though we are living out the 1930′s again in Germany and I am pleading with him to recognize the tightening noose around his neck. He cried for joy at the inauguration. We can barely converse now. He is blinded. Yes, he is a JINO and his fanatic faith is Fabian socialism/marxism. He doesn’t see ‘Uncle Joe’ as the barbaric tyrant that he was. Delusion isn’t rational. It is, however, horrible.
Northcove #105: The alleged Petraeus report should be filed under “F” for “Fiction”.
Any such report/recommendation to JCS would N-O-T be publicly disseminated. Final answer.
Any leak in this case came from the White House itself and was, at the minimum, heavily spin-doctored.
Considering the tone and substance of other featured FP articles, the odds favor a
“Protocols of the Elders of Petraeus” at the publication itself.
‘Nuff said.
Did you ever consider that it’s American Jews’ love affair with Israel that’s ending? Check your demographics. Support for Israel was fervent and universal among American Jews fifty years ago. In a mere five decades, Israel has managed to alienate most younger, better-educated American Jews–not to mention the rest of the planet.
This is a subject that has disturbed me, as a somewhat (Reform) observant and politically conservative Jew, for the past 30 years. I grew up around NYC in an atmosphere in which my parents and their friends saw FDR as a figure of Mosaic stature and the New Deal as a tablet of liberal principles which he delivered to the nation. Some of their friends were even armchair suburban Marxists of the early union activist vain. As a very young teen, I was entranced by the easy idealism and Plutocratic stylishness of Jack Kennedy who pushed me further into the fold of the Democrat party. Everything that I felt and saw, from my youthful enthusiasm for civil rights for black people to Nixon’s sweaty upper lip and shifty eyes, seemed to further cement my attachment to my parents’ political proclivities and reinforce my opinion of myself as a “good” person, wanting to do “good’ for others.
That’s the way it was, through the unchallenged wasteland of University leftism, to my first after-college job before grad school; I took a year or two out of what I thought would be my final career path to do what I thought would be a major mitzvot and save a few bucks for school as well. I got a job with the state (Michigan) as a “social” (welfare dispenser) worker. In my day-to-day encounters with a seemingly endless parade of 15 year old mothers, heroin addicts, alcoholics, the mentally ill and a smattering of down-on-their luck unemployed who came pouring into my case files, a small nagging and magnifying doubt was starting to play over and over in the deepest recesses of my mind: this doesn’t work, THIS doesn’t work, THIS DOESN’T work, THIS DOESN’T WORK! But, in the manner of the true believer, I did my best to suppress those inconvenient thoughts. Maybe we just needed more of the same.
A few years later, in law school at night, after a thoroughly disillusioning experience with the legal profession worthy of a hair raising suspense novel, I decided to join the real economy doing a very risky but rewarding job; freelance photojournalism and commercial photography. It was this experience that pushed me over the edge. I learned a lot of hard lessons by having to be my own salesman, my own production worker, executive and accountant, and by having to make sure that every month I found enough hard work to pay my own bills. Now living in the Detroit area, looking on with amazement at the stupefying naive and wrongheaded assumptions of the people I worked with, comfortable that their jobs would always be there, complaining about the “awful corporations,” and being exposed to the impenetrable wall of the groupthink left wing liberalism of all my major media clients in New York, I became a closeted conservative, ever more convinced of my newfound principles, but hesitant to expose my thoughts to very many people around me. I read more and more about conservatism and immediately understood that its ideas carried many more real-world solutions in the public and private spheres than I had first imagined. Then, along came Ronald Regan, and, finally, I felt that I could finally express to my conventional liberal Jewish family and friends what I had felt for quite some time. That’s when the fun began.
My family thinks, at best, that I am a good natured lunatic when it comes to my political opinions. To them, and they are a very smart and accomplished bunch, their largely unexamined opinion that the Democrat party is obviously worthy of their unfettered support is unshakeable. My own mother, even knowing how I feel about her politics, when she takes a break from doggedly watching MSNBC, praising Mr. Obama, affecting a nervous tick of scorn at the mention of Sarah Palin and warning me of the nefarious hidden intentions of evangelical Christians, consistently goads me into political discussions against my will, hoping to “snap me out” of my wrong-headed trance. She, unlike my siblings and other family members, is still enough attached to the idea of Israel that she quiets briefly at what she thinks are unexplainable and puzzling gaps in Mr. Obama’s support for the Israeli state – not long enough to question her support for all Democrats, mind you, but at least giving her small pause. My brother and sister and many others in my family think of Israel as a rather tragic country, feel some pull of cultural affinity, but never enough to make them question liberal Democrats in general, even if they are obviously acting in a way antithetical to Israel’s survival. They, unlike my mother, are immune to the “Rahm Emmanuel would never allow it” meme, that appeal to the righteous ruler idea that has worked so well through the pogroms and holocausts visited upon the Jews of Europe. Instead they seem almost emotionally distant about Israel, loving to visit it, loving the early socialism of the Kibbutzniks and cosmopolitanism of Israel’s urban secular left, but exceedingly critical of the religious, conservative and Orthodox, and blaming them for all of Israel’s problems. They wouldn’t like to see Israel destroyed and its citizens slaughtered, but they probably would not stand up on their behalf until it was very late in the game, heaping heavy recriminations on Israelis themselves. So, any but the most outrageous and immediately deadly anti-Israeli behavior by the Obama administration would clearly not budge their support of the Democrat party.
I regretfully conclude that there will only be a chance of a significant decrease in the Jewish support of the Democratic party when the generational connection to the party is stretched by time. Perhaps, when the “greatest generation” and the baby boomers are dead and gone, when my children and their children, hopefully unencumbered by or, at least, in rebellion to the suffocating blanket of the soft despotism of American Progressivism, can learn to truly think for themselves, they will no longer be overwhelmingly Democratic voters. Until then, I’ll keep doing my best to try to prod those I know in my generation of Jews into reconsidering their largely self-negating assumptions about politics.
138. Shef Rogers,
Has Italy alienated American[hyphen]Italians by remaining…eh…ITALY? Has Ireland managed to alienate Irish[hyphen]Americans by remaining IRELAND?
“What has ISRAEL done for me lately?” Is that what the teat-suckin’ Leftist propaganda feeds to our youth? Is that the indelible Leftist ‘motto’?
139. dafranklin,
You should be very proud of what you wrote, your truth is there for all to see via your personal experiences.
It’s a rather painful realization to believe you can only hope for a generation past your own lifetime to be completely free of the past. It’s even more painful to understand how cancerous mindless hate can be and that it can spread and sprout up quickly if left unchecked.
I would encourage any fence sitting American Jews to read through this comment section. It would scare them right back into the arms of the Dems.
That’s not Jews who are liberals – that’s *only* Ashkenazi US Jews. Other Jews in the world are right wing – of course in Israel, but also in other countries like France (80% voted for the right-wing) or Russia.
In the US, orthodox Jews, sefaradic Jews, Israeli-Americans – they vote for the republican party. But I can’t explain why the rest are so liberals.
The honest answer: NEVER. Many of the (democrat)Jews in America chose socialism as their religion. It wouldn’t matter if they were watching Israel burned to the ground. They would find a way of rationalizing it. If the choice is to vote for a socialist or someone from the right whose devotion to Isral has been proven time and time again they would choose the socialist. The dirty little secret is that their “jewishness” is used as a shield and a weapon to destroy only those who would attempt to interrupt or damage the Marxist narrative/agenda in all things. You would think that using the charge of anti-semitism was evidence of concern for all things sacred to the Jewish people, right? Nah. Just all things sacred to marxist/leninism. And if the support for Israel was coming from the Evangelical Christian wing of the Republic Party??? Break out the smelling salts folks because that would be a tragedy! There is a great deal of anti-Christian bigotry that should be exposed and acknowledged an a pernicious ingredient to this question. The fact that many Christians are Zionists as well surely drives them around the twist. And therein lies the towering irony: left leaning Jews who give a pass to those who give Isreal the back of their hand (anti-Semites all) take great exception to the Christians who support her (anti-Christian bigotry). The need to hang on to their particular bigotry trumps the bigotry of anti-Semitism, that which they PRETEND to be concerned.
….will it? DON’T HOLD YOUR BREATH ROGER.
if they stand by Obama and the democrat party then I say they are stupid. …the fact that there was all kinds of indications warnings etc means that they probably are stupid. That is if they voted for him once and double stupid if they vote for him again.
Spindok #77
“I support the two state solution”
heh.
I support whatever solution changes the minds of Hamas and of Arabs and of Islam in general about their desire to DESTROY ISRAEL.
The two state solution will not change those minds, but will give them a “state” which, conveniently, will permit them in world eyes to have a military. Once their ‘weapons’ are legitimized in world eyes for state self defense (against the evil Zionists, of course), the war will be on without ceasing.
And don’t think this ‘solution’ isn’t wished for by enemies of Israel for precisely this reason. Making a Palestinian ‘state’ (which has never existed in history, btw.. it was a lawless region nominally administered by Jordan before the state of Israel arrived) would make the war against Israel bigger, faster and more pronounced.
As for me, I support whatever solution will put an end to the desire to wipe out Israel. But that desire exists in many other places besides “Palestine”, like in the streets of England and France and the United States.
Of course not, Roger, and you know it. Israel is not the top priority for American Jews. (A priority yes, the top one no.)
I have long wondered if the primary component in Jewish reflexive loyalty to the Democratic Party is denial born of fear; fear of change, fear of the hand-writing on the wall, fear of losing the safety and comfort they have felt for so long. If they just roll over and display their soft underbelly to the forces of hate, maybe they will be accepted after all. I’m not so sure it represents real conviction. When you have lost your sense of self, it is very hard to assert your right to exist. As a Jew, I find this very frightening.
dafranklin: Your comments were so entertaining and delightful to read! You pretty much confirmed everything I have been exposed to or concluded. The incredible truth is that the bigotry of the left who like to think of themselves as so “enlightened” is every bit as real and malignant as what the think the right represents. I have said for years that so many of the accusations of bigotry, racism, etc being bellowed by the left is a giant example of psychological projection. They are the bigots so they think everyone else is too. They know no other way of being.
Richard Nieporent said
“There is something in the Jewish psyche that prevents Jews from acting in their own best interest.”
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha – the entire gentile population is bent over in uncontrollable laughter.
After that whopper he said…
“Democrat agenda is inimical to the best interests of Jews?”
Inimical to the interests of Jews??? – does that mean that Jews share singular interests with each other – that they don’t share with Gentiles? If a gentile said that it would be grounds for removal from their job – and the destruction of their reputation!
I am a Russian and Scottish American – do you think for a minute that I weigh what is best for Russians or Scots when I decide on issues? Do ‘ordinary’ Americans make decisions based on what’s “best” for others of their own ethnicity?
I cannot imagine making such a statement… and I cannot Imagine that such statements is acceptable to people who thump thump thump daily that anyone who codifies or generalizes Jewish ‘behavior’ is a drooling hater!!!
Solipsistic would be ONE characteristic shared by Jews… If you say it, live it and breath it… it must be true and good.
If a Non Jew notices… they are haters and want to kill you….
what an insane bunch
ruvy:
You miss the point. I never said whether Jesus is or is not the messaih. I said that given prophesies of a messaih in the scriptures that you cannot use Judaism to exclude the possibility thaqt he was. Your argument falls into the “is too…is not” class. You have just proved my point. The only wqay for Jews to defeat Christianity os to deny Judaism.
I don’t think it matters if Jewish people stop supporting the Democrat party. Jews make up less than 3% of the American people.
They vote in higher percentages than other demographics, so their effect on elections is somewhat higher than percentage of general population, perhaps in the 4% effective range.
IOW, Obama lost the election if he didn’t have the Dem Jewish vote. Florida could flip a half dozen solid D house seats to R if the Jewish demographic were to defect in any significant numbers.
It’s not partisanship, it’s the current administration’s behavior which endangers Jews everywhere.
tdiinva,
I haven’t missed any points.
I simply said that Christian hatred of Jews for 1,700 years or more made it obvious that any statements they might wish to prattle on about having been “saved” by a Jew is a nice fantasy. If it gets them through the day, I won’t hold it against them. But it is still a nice fantasy. And that’s all it is.
Christians’ willingness to surrender to the evil inclination over the centuries, and the hatred in their hearts for the people who taught them humane code of law, (not to mention the G-d of ISRAEL Who gave it to them) forfeited any proof that there was a messiah of any kind 2,000 years ago. The proof the Christians had to use was LOVE FOR A BROTHER IN FAITH. It’s nice to see so many American Christians displaying that trait today – honestly it is. But they are way too late to prove the central contention of their faith. To do that, they would have to be willing to stand with us against the Romans – and basically, they weren’t willing to do that.
But hey! This is all besides the point. The question before the house is “will the Jews now desert the Democratic Party in the United States?” Having seen what many of these Jews have degenerated to – I doubt it. And I believe that Mr. Simon asks the WRONG question. It doesn’t matter which political party Jews belong to in a morally and financially bankrupt entity.
The appropriate question for all American Jews is, “do they now see that they need to leave America for Israel? And the answer to that is less depressing – many Jews now do see the need. But on the whole, it is an equally disappointing NO.
How far back does the Jewish love affair with Socialism extend? Way before the alliance with the Communists against Hitler. Possibly back before Marx? Despite the historical horrors that Socialism has visited upon the Jewish people, almost without fail, why is it so seemingly intertwined? Or is that just a stereotype?
Hitler and the Nazi party demonstrated that the left really beileves that the jews are another race entirely, that they can be identified easily, and that not even conversion to Christianity or Islam is allowed to render them non-jewish.
There were many very shocked jewish veterans of the WWI German Army who were murdered by the Nazis; they thought of themselves as Germans first, then jews. The Nazis did not agree, and acted like Nazis.
What I see here in the US is another generation of jews attempting to hide in plain sight from the next far left pogrom. They wear their progressive left politics like ghillie suits, hoping the camoflage will protect them.
It won’t work. It didn’t work for Trotsky either.
I believe that liberalism trumps religious beliefs for many. I see this in my liberal catholic friends. I am a conservitive and a catholic and they look at me as “cold hearted” since I don’t support all the “social justice” causes. Meanwhile, they look the other way when it comes to abortion. (My answer is, “You cannot feed the dead”)
Can’t read all the comments but I thank many here for the education. I too have been confounded by the loyalty but feel like I better understand why now.
Roger, wish you were even half right on this one but based on what I’ve read I don’t see it.
It’s not just Israel. In the destructive minds of these America hating administration pimps, and of course in Hussien Obama’s mind, everything is in reverse, an upside down, Alice in Wonderland existence.
America’s friends are their enemies, America itself is an enemy, as Bill Ayers & Rev Wright would affirm, former long term friends of Hussien.
The pattern is clear, and becoming clearer for those people who mistakenly regard Hussien Obama as an American. His mission, what he is dedicated to, is to ally himself with America’s enemies and to do as much harm to this country as he can.
cflbeachers: I have way too much to do in life other than copy and paste old posts in order to make a pretty unconvincing point-on your part. But if your day is enlightened by it-have at it.
Obviously, you DO have trouble reading and comprehending. Much of what has been written by the author and posters here DOES in fact support what I said. Perhaps I said things much to unPC-like for you but then that is too bad.
And I will not further entertain your rejoinder on this post. It is useless.
But I DO look forward to debating you again.
What’s wrong?
Have Alan Deshovitz speak to Obama. Alan is proud of his vote for Obama and “has influence with the President.”
That should do it.
JCL
#151
Inimical to the interests of Jews??? – does that mean that Jews share singular interests with each other – that they don’t share with Gentiles? If a gentile said that it would be grounds for removal from their job – and the destruction of their reputation!
I am a Russian and Scottish American – do you think for a minute that I weigh what is best for Russians or Scots when I decide on issues? Do ‘ordinary’ Americans make decisions based on what’s “best” for others of their own ethnicity?
Anti-Semitism. If there were an international hatred of Russians or Scots, as there is of Jews, you might understand. If there were widespread persecution of Scots, then it might be plain to you that you should be worried about that, even if it hadn’t spread to your community. Yet.
You might then realize the prudence of supporting your persecuted distant kin, if only to stand against the persecution itself.
Ignoring the inane anti-Semitic remarks of some posters (don’t feed the trolls), I agree with many here that Roger is wrong. American JINOs have simply abandoned Israel, their false god of Liberalism is what they are tied to, and that’s that. Israel can be destroyed thanks in part to Obama’s indifference and lack of support (and the Arab world is not stupid they see that Israel now has no support from the US), American Jews will just cry their crocodile tears. They will build a couple of new memorials to the second Shoa, rewrite history Orwellian style and pretend they supported Israel, and whitewash Obama’s mistreatment of Israel and pretend he was an ally.
Interesting that instead of taking American Jews to task for voting for the anti-Semite Obama, Simon pretends that Jews in America may now come around, even though they won’t.
Scythe, I appreciate that you were entertained and delighted to read my remarks. Yes, all of the left, including its minority of Jews, and all of the right, including its even smaller minority of Jews (and me), have prejudices that are difficult for others who do not share them to “take.” Yes, we are all human and imperfect in an amazingly diverse and sometimes depressing way.
Please do not take the point I was trying to make to be that liberal Jews, or liberals in general, are especially prejudiced towards anyone, to any extant, more than conservatives. We all share the burden of our imperfections, including, of course, Jews. Perhaps some liberals are hypocrites because, while proclaiming equality of result among all people in society as their most cherished ideal, they act just like the rest of us in their everyday lives. This despite holding the mantle of their “fairness” over their heads in pride.
Yes, I think that too much pride in themselves as being nice, intending to do good with what they imagine to be the benign forces of the state, plus a kind of political stupidity and situational unawareness are the negative characteristics of many devoted liberals I know. Of course, I and all conservatives I know are also guilty of pride, have prejudices and other failings of our own, whether they are accurate or wrong or destructive or not.
We cannot escape human error, but we can stick to a limited government which cannot easily institutionalize the evil of which men are capable. That is what our own U.S. constitutional democratic republic has been so good at. Governments best use is to curb its own power as much as possible while still providing for those areas of the common good that it only can achieve, like natioinal defense. That is why I am a conservative. Salvation is best left to religion; keeping individual men and women free and safe is what our government should concentrate on.
GMarks, your remarks, again, speak for themselves. You really don’t need anyone else to point out your agenda. If it looks like it, smells like it, walks like it, it probably is it. It would probably be better if you just let go and screamed your deeply held opinions just a little louder and clearer still. Then there would be not even the smallest ambiguity left as to whether your comments are, at the least, extremely and unfairly prejudiced against Jews.
No. Jews prefer suicide to association with the “wrong” people.
I think most American Jews don’t much care what happens to Israel. Roger, after all, it can’t happen here.