I used to have mixed feelings about Joe Lieberman. He wasn’t the most electric of presidential candidates and sometimes he tended to the sanctimonious – the Holy Joe thing. But I am increasingly becoming convinced he is the indispensable man in the US Congress, indeed in the entirety of our government, a welcome whiff of integrity in a morass of group think, self interest and outright dishonesty.
Perhaps it’s his independent status, but where freedom of thought is called for, usually it’s Lieberman who is the first to step forward. Most recently we have seen this in two key areas – healthcare and the controversy surrounding the actions of Nidal Hasan.
Regarding healthcare, Joe Lieberman holds within his hands the ability to block a piece of legislation that could be disastrous for our country, a bill constructed out of the most blatant partisan know-nothingism. Of course, his enemies will cry that his opposition stems from the presence of insurance companies in his state, but I think we all know that Joe Lieberman is well beyond that at this point – and not just because he is 67 but because of who he is. From Bloomberg:
Donald W. Greenberg, associate professor of politics at Fairfield University in Fairfield, Connecticut, said Democrats need Lieberman a lot more than he needs them.
“He feels now that he’s secure,” Greenberg said in an interview. “His history has always been as a social liberal. There are lots of issues where he might bolt the party, but you wouldn’t think this is the one. I do think he believes sincerely that this is very dangerous for the economy.”
Believes sincerely? How’s that for a member of the US Congress, moving about in the world of the Murthas, Rangels, Reids and Dodds, who probably don’t believe sincerely that they put on their own socks in the morning?
And who was the first up to call for a congressional investigation of the Ft. Hood disaster? Joe Lieberman, of course. Were we surprised? Again of course, not. Not any longer. Lieberman knew immediately that the most important problem to emerge from that tragedy was to understand as completely as we could why a man like Dr. Hasan could have been allowed to serve in our military.
When you think about it, it’s amazing how much we need Joe Lieberman at this point in our history.
If this short piece sounds like a campaign speech, well, in a way it is. Coming back to my lede, I mentioned how I used to have mixed feelings about Joe Lieberman, how he ran a flat Presidential campaign. (He wasn’t particularly scintillating as a Vice-Presidential candidate either.) But maybe that’s the point. Maybe what’s called for in a great political campaigner – the ability to lie and exaggerate to attract the masses – is precisely what is NOT called for in a great political leader – honesty and courage.
I will ask you one final question. Who would you rather see in the presidency today at this time of financial and international crisis, Barack Obama or Joe Lieberman?
Roger,
My problems with Lieberman all stem from his VP run. He seemed at that time all too willing to sell his soul to Gore and the left-wing wacko part of the Dems. for the nomination.
I do like much, but by no means all, of his positions now especially compared with the Chicago Commie Mafia that is trying to turn the US into a version of Mussolini’s Italy.
I don’t like all of anybody’s positions. But I certainly agree that Lieberman is a hero in the present world.
I disagree with Lieberman on many issues, but I would vote for him for President, because of his religiosity and his integrity. In response to AlanC, I too was dismayed by Lieberman’s VP run, but I think it embarrassed him as well. I think he regrets selling out to Gore. The fact that they are not in any way close is, I think, mild circumstantial evidence in support of my view.
He has character; you can’t find much of that in Washington.
My problem with Sen. Lieberman is that he talks the talk, but can never seem to walk the walk.
To answer your question (“Joe or Barack?”)
J O E by a mile
Roger,
Joe Lieberman is everything John McCain should be, but is not.
Yours truly,
Neobuzz
I’m with Jack in Silver Spring, when it’s crunch time old Joe will fold.He is a liberal democrat first and a thoughtful patriot second.
Aside from Lieberman’s national security stance, he is very much a strong, liberal Democrat; he is the Democrat’s version of John McCain. However, I don’t hear the MSM calling Lieberman a Maverick when he sides with Republicans. No, Lieberman is ostracized & lambasted by the MSM & the other Democrats…
The Democrats do need Lieberman more than he needs them, yet he always goes back to them.
He may not be “Mr. Excitement” nor do I share his body politic, but I do appreciate his inclusion in the debate.
“I will ask you one final question. Who would you rather see in the presidency today at this time of financial and international crisis, Barack Obama or Joe Lieberman?”
That’s not a fair comparison. I would have preferred almost anyone to Obama. For me the stigma of coming from the Chicago political machine can only be matched by something like being a personal injury lawyer or satanist or actual card carrying member of the CPUSA. Knowing what I know now I’d probably hold my nose and vote for the satanist.
All I can say about Lieberman is that while he condemned then President Clinton’s actions (and was the only Democrat of note to do so), he lost my respect by then voting the party line. I wish he had kept his convictions.
That said, I like the fact that, despite voting with the social(ist) liberals almost all the time, seems to want to defend & protect the citizens of this country against those who are sworn to destroy us. I admire his support of Israel as well.
“But I am increasingly becoming convinced he is the indispensable man in the US Congress, indeed in the entirety of our government, a welcome whiff of integrity in a morass of group think, self interest and outright dishonesty.”
Of course, when a Republican demonstrates such a “whiff of integrity in a morass of group think,” he or she is labeled a RINO and ostracized.
I’m a conservative and I would vote for Lieberman.
Obama is a disaster in progress – and just as tragic that I can’t seem to have a rational conversation with a black person about it. Even more tragic is the state of journalism and freedom of speech…just makes me sick.
I hope that Obama and Congress are prevented from making the changes they plan by their fears of retribution at the ballot box. It seems we will find out how much grief they can cause between the time they act badly and the time it takes to get them out of office via the ballot box.
My fear is the Dems in their drive to force changes most of the public does not want may force the hands of the pubic to awaken the sleeping giant within and cause them feel a need act beyond and before the ballot box.
I found it amusing that 10 – 15,000 people were protesting mandatory health insurance at the capitol last week with no incident.
6 protesters were at Lieberman’s office and were arrested.
Stay classy lefties..
I disagree with Joe on most domestic issues (he’s still a Big Government Democrat, at heart), but, to answer your final question, Roger, I would vastly prefer him in the Oval Office over Obama, and not just in a crisis. While I might cross swords with Lieberman, I know I’d be dealing with an honest man of integrity. Quite the opposite of how I feel about the current occupant.
There’s no room for Liberman in the Democrat Party.
He puts the interests of his country ahead of his own interests or the interests of the Democrats.
And, that’s why he was practically run out of the Democrat Party.
The Dems are the same thing they’ve always been. A party of traitors. True in 1860…true now. And, anyone who won’t turn traitor, ain’t really welcome in their party.
The Democrats are loyal on one condition. Let ‘em keep their slaves and let them run the national government and they’re loyal. Let ‘em keep their welfare checks and run the national government, and they’re loyal.
Try to take that stuff away…and they’ll turn traitor in a heartbeat. They’ll either try and help an existing foreign enemy (like they did when Nixon or Bush II was president), or they’ll take up arms against their own country (like they did when Lincoln was president).
But, one way or the other, they’re going to turn traitor.
And, no matter what Lieberman’s politics are, he ain’t the type to turn traitor…so he ain’t really part of the Democrat Party.
Heck, I’d not only pick Lieberman over Obama, I’d probably pick him over McCain (more for character than ideological reasons). ..bruce..
16. paul_unalaska:
“Stay classy lefties..”
LOL! Fo-Sho! “Don’t tase me, bro!”
<blockquote."I will ask you one final question. Who would you rather see in the presidency today at this time of financial and international crisis, Barack Obama or Joe Lieberman?"
Oh that’s cruel, Mr. Simon. If only we could wave a magic wand and make it so right now!
Unfortch, we’re stuck riding out this worst-case scenario to the bitter end.
16. paul_unalaska:
“Stay classy lefties..”
LOL! Fo-Sho! “Don’t tase me, bro!”
Oh that’s cruel, Mr. Simon. If only we could wave a magic wand and make it so right now!
Unfortch, we’re stuck riding out this worst-case scenario to the bitter end.
Edited: Oops. Messed up my blockquote.
Do NOT ever trust Lieberman.
I like some of what he is saying about health care now, but he has been a reliable liberal on everything except Israel (I have no problem with his positions on Israel, I just point out it’s the only thing he’s consistently ‘conservative’ on….)
When push comes to shove, Lieberman will fold and vote with Reid. Don’t kid yourself.
22. CatoRenasci,
-But, do you think Lieberman would be worse than ‘o’?
Would I vote for Lieberman come next presidential election? No. Would I prefer him over ‘o’ at this point? HELL YEAH.
Although I’m glad he’ll (hopefully) help block this idiotic health care legislation, I think there’s a risk here of putting too much faith in the man. He’s a politician and he maneuvers just like they all do.
Let’s not let the fact that he’s on “our” side for this issue blind us to his previous extremism.
23. Delia: It’s not a question of who’s worse – Obama is clearly worse – it’s a question of whether you can trust Lieberman to remain in opposition to Obama. I submit the answer is “Hell NO!”
I am a Connecticut resident and know some of the players in Democratic politics in CT, even “Red Ned” Lamont. Lieberman is a politician whose only lodestar is his own self-interest.
“Of course, when a Republican demonstrates such a “whiff of integrity in a morass of group think,” he or she is labeled a RINO and ostracized.”
Such as Dede Scozzafava. She demonstrated her integrity by supporting abortion, card check, obamacare, and endorsing the democrat when she couldn’t secure the Republican nomination. The morass of group thinking Republicans then had the lack of integrity to call her a RINO.
At the risk of being misunderstood or called names….
I think the integrity part comes partly down to his being Jewish.
I do not agree with his politics 9 times out of 10. But he might be our one David against an army of monstrous Goliaths, and “simple” integrity might be the difference, and that sort of thing is relatively internal to his religious world-view.
The huge wake up call for the rest of us is this: How did we come to a situation, say 40 years down the road from the watershed in phoniness and fakery 60′s, that we have almost no people at all with any integrity, and not to many at all that even understand the concept or its value?
If that continues, we have no chance at all. We’re doomed.
JO-MENTUM!
LIEBERMAN IS THE REAL THING: A CLASSICAL LIB.
ND MATURE AND MORAL.
UNLIKE MOST OF THE DEMS IN CONGRESS.
WHO ARE LEFTIES AND AMORAL AT BEST.
When I graduated from law school in 1958 (former House Speaker Tom
Foley was a classmate), most politicians who went to Washington were motivated by personal honor and commitment to public service. Now a substantial majority go there to get rich. Pay to play and unresolvable conflicts of interest corrupt them so that Congress operates as a criminal enterprise.
Thank God for few honest ones left, including Liebeman and Coburn/
#22 CatoRenasci,
Evidently you are much more of an ideological purist than I am. But even so, I don’t understand what you are staying. On the War on Terror, Joe Lieberman has perhaps been the most standup person in the Congress. So it’s not just healthcare. Far from it. In fact on foreign policy issues (Iran, etc.) I would trust him more than just about any other person in our government. Now if all you’re saying is don’t trust ANY politician… well, sure. Or maybe trust but verify. But we all know that.
27. willis:
“Of course, when a Republican demonstrates such a “whiff of integrity in a morass of group think,” he or she is labeled a RINO and ostracized.”
“Such as Dede Scozzafava. She demonstrated her integrity by supporting abortion, card check, obamacare, and endorsing the democrat when she couldn’t secure the Republican nomination. The morass of group thinking Republicans then had the lack of integrity to call her a RINO.”
Thanks for demonstrating my point, willis!
(PS – I really should have said vilified rather than ostracized; I don’t think Snowe or Crist will actually be booted out.)
Joe is a liberal Democrat but he is not a Marxist traitor like so many Democrat rats in Congress and the Obama Administration.
Turns out that Lieberman is the Obama I really wanted.
Hopefully, I won’t get fooled again.
(Sincere apologies to The Who)
Lieberman is only “indispensable” if you believe murdering the unborn is an American Sacrament, the Second Amendment is meaningless, and Big Goobermint is AOK as long as it professes “family values”.
How about a Palin/Lieberman ticket?
These two might honestly tell you what they think.
The other politicians tell us what they think we want them to think, dumbed down into bumper-sticker language. I suppose we are to blame for this, because it obviously works.
If we already know that in the next election the candidates will run to the right or left in the primaries, then tack towards the center in the general election, we have admitted that we all know they are not to be believed.
And then we will make the one who does it best President.
So, yeah. Leiberman/Palin. (either way) I know they may turn out to be just like the rest, but maybe not.
A Maybe is better than watching the next Presidential debate knowing with certainty that all they are saying is what their handlers told them would please the base without alarming the moderates, carefully avoiding any level of detail that would allow substantive criticism.
I have changed my mind about Liberman as well. At this point, his liberal leanings would mean a lot less to me than his integrity, his independence and his common sense.
Over the years since his run for V.P. I have come to realize that he is one of those rare birds, a liberal that I can respectfully disagree with. He strikes me as a reasonable man.
I disagree with him on a great deal, but he’s an adult and a man with some strong principles, which is both rare and badly needed in government today. I admire and respect him for that.
I’m with some others here in thinking we definitely need to wait and see how this all plays out before giving the guy any undeserved praise.
I’m admittedly a cynic, but I’m not at all convinced that Joe isn’t going to vote with the other Dems and help pass Obamacare. I foresee some kind of butt-covering baloney along the lines of – “I couldn’t support healthcare with the burning-grandma-alive provision, but now that’s been stripped from the bill I can go along with it.” If Joe-mentum does take over and helps kill the healthcare takeover I’ll happily give him a big thumbs up, but I’m not willing to start giving the guy any accolades as of right now.
The left despises Democrats like Joe and Zell Miller. Not so much because of their lack of respect for their party discipline (or lack there of) but in the first instance, their support for George Bush.
On the other hand, I respect them for their independence, like Republican leaders like Chuck Hagel, Jeffords, Snowe and Collins that opposed the Bush Doctrine.
Being independent can be almost career ending for a politician, specially if you dont flat out switch sides. Joe did not switch sides but has gone conservitive crazy, as they say. And now that Bush is gone, that does away with the one thing I did not like about him. So…Go On Joe, give your fellow Dems a run for their … liberal..money. Good Luck to Joe.
Who would you rather see in the presidency today at this time of financial and international crisis, Barack Obama or Joe Lieberman?
Osama: Obama, of course.
Personally, I can’t tell the difference between Lieberman and McCain. They are two peas in a pod. Neither will sell out their country internationally, but domestically is another story.
I’d rather have Obama than Lieberman or McCain. Yes, O is running the country into the ground, but it is the wake-up call we need. Nothing will demonstrate the abject failure of liberal policies like high unemployment and the other messes coming.
Obama is reforming the Republican party all by himself. I can hardly remember them ever standing so solidly as a block as now. The moderates, too, are beginning to see the light about Progressivism. They are getting religion. Hallelujah.
McCain would’ve been a disaster, because things like Cap and Tax and bad healthcare legislation full of compromises would have passed. His foreign policy would’ve been fine, but his domestic agenda would’ve ruined what was left of the Republican party.
So, bring on Obama. My effin’ hero. Jeez, was there ever a bigger idiot?
biblio44 – You don’t know what integrity means. Just because some Pub votes with the dems, doesn’t mean he shows integrity. Political integrity means putting your country before yourself.
Just so you can maybe see what I mean, see how many times the Dems talk about freedom? The word almost never passes their lips. They don’t say economic freedom. They say economic justice. They use the word justice for every subject except justice, where they use the word “fairness”. They also use the word “rights” a lot, but when they say “rights”, they mean entitlements.
In all the speeches Obama gave during the campaign, he almost never said the word freedom. Justice, fairness, and rights? All the time. It’s all Orwellian-speak. Their terms ALL mean redistribution of wealth. The fact that they won’t call it that, and the fact that they don’t say “freedom”, tells you what they really intend. What they WON’T say tells you more than what they DO say.
Go back and watch the VP Candidate debate between Lieberman and Cheney from 2000. It was two principled, thoughtful men, exchanging ideas on weighty matters of policy. It was easily the best debate I’ve seen in decades between national candidates. I said at the time that were it possible, I would have voted then and there for a Cheney/Lieberman ticket. I wasn’t terribly thrilled to be voting for Bush. I hadn’t exactly been a fan of Lieberman prior to that, but he won me over then and I’ve continued to have more respect for him than for just about any member of Congress. Sadly, that isn’t saying much these days.
Hey, Simon, when are we gonna have the site remember our info, again? I tire of typing it in all the time.
OK, Let me get this straight. He says he is against the bill only because of the public option – right?
Therefore he is for a huge tax increase, even bigger deficits, less personal and more government control on health care. That’s suppose to make me happy?
I hate the idea of throwing the game to a politician we disagree with (Obama) in the hopes that the negative experience to follow will be transformative. Sure, it may “wake” moderates up, but they tend to fall back to sleep quickly.
On the other hand, Obama is going to move the bounds of what government thinks is its business outwards. Those markers are not going to be pulled back in.
I don’t want conservatives getting too clever, or ideologically purist, in the next election. Chastise the party, but NOT on election day. (Any word on how that Democrat who took Dede Scofassavi’s seat is going to vote on the next trillion dollar entitlement?)
I am not sure what makes for better satire, The diary or the comments that follow? You’re welcome, in advance, for pointing that reality.
Of course, his enemies will cry that his opposition stems from the presence of insurance companies in his state, but I think we all know that Joe Lieberman is well beyond that at this point – and not just because he is 67 but because of who he is.
Really? How do we know this? Maybe he just seems as pure as the Madonna because you happen to agree with him?
Never does anyone seem so correct and virtuous as when they agree with us.
Me? I think the millions he’s taken over his career from the home state’s insurance industry plays a role in St. Joe’s thinking.
And it seems kinda laughable to me that you find genius in Joe’s call for an investigation following the tragic events at Ft. Hood. But that’s just me.
I will take a man who operates on honor, integrity and abhors deceit…any day of the week.
When everyone on the left side of the aisle was lying about supporting the enforcement of the WORLD’S demand that Saddam come clean on weapons of mass destruction…Joe Lieberman would not lie with them.
When the left side of the aisle was saying that it was George Bush who instituted regime change in Iraq, Joe Lieberman would not tell that lie with them either.
He will not feed the public the massive lies about health care.
He takes each issue as he finds it…and comes to a conviction based upon the facts, truth and honor. Disagree with a man like that all you want…I will take him over the distortionists each and every day of the week.
I only wish there were 500 more like him, all thinking of the country first. We are lucky if there are enough to cause us to have to take off our shoes to count them.
This is satirical right?
Please tell me this is satire.
“And it seems kinda laughable to me that you find genius in Joe’s call for an investigation following the tragic events at Ft. Hood. But that’s just me.”
Just for the record, Don #48, I would NEVER use the word “genius” in reference to a politician and certainly didn’t in this instance. (Politicians are pretty hum-drum people when compared to geniuses like Shakespeare, Milton and Einstein.) I would point out too that on the very issue you describe, Lieberman was the first to call for a Congressional investigation. That counts for something. But that’s just me, as you say.
You must be kidding. Unfortunately he’s my senator. He doesn’t listen to his constituents. His office staff are among the rudest I’ve ever encountered.
Thank god, Obama is president rather than Lieberman. You know of course that his wife is closely connected to the insurance industry companies headquartered in Hartford as is Joe himself.
Who do you think is yanking his chain?
Please do a little more research before you shoot your mouth off.
RE: “18. Dave Surls: There’s no room for Liberman in the Democrat Party.”
I have to say you are wrong here Dave, Obama himself forgave Liberman, and urged the Party allow him to stay in the Senate Democratic caucus. While joe is an Indie, there can be no doubt that the dems have welcomed more diverse views into the party than republicans.
My estimation of Sen. Leiberman has greatly improved since my introduction to him as Al Gore’s #2, where I saw him as a boot-licking bought-and-sold party man willing to echo any sensless garbage AG threw out there for the sake of the ticket. The one thing that still bothers me, though, and I know it’s shallow, but evey time he opns his mouth I expect his next comment to be some complaint about the latest hijinx ALF got in to.
that’s a total no-brainer.
I was surprized and pleased to read about Joe’s opposition to the Health Insurance debacle. As far as as seeing clearly the threat posed by the intl jihadi he seems more clear-eyed than GWB was.
I hate to be the dissenter here, but at least two people have mentioned Joe Lieberman for his support of Israel. Lieberman supports an Arab terror state where I live. Now, for you in Hollywood or New York, support for Israel may mean not calling us Nazis or supporting money to “aid” the government here, but for me, support for Israel means supporting our right to all of the land between the Jordan and the Mediterranean. End of sentence.
Maybe Joe Lieberman is good for you. That’s your call. But he sure as heck ain’t good for me. I’ll take Huckabee over him any day of the week. Not because I like Huckabee’s politics or his religious orientation, but he says what I feel an American president should say.
I can’t trust Sarah Palin. She may have other agendae hidden under those red dresses of hers which will not do us in Israel any good at all.
No. 42 Malone
After eight years of republican control of the Legal, Executive and Legislative branches of our government, please dont harp on about real leaders like McCain or Lieberman…
Oh I forgot/// your the kind that really still believes that Palin and Bachmann will be the next president…
oooookkkkk then..
good luck to them.
Yes, like 70% of the country, I prefer Joe to Obama/Mao. It was particularly interesting that he campaigned for McCain against Obama, so there is no love lost there.
On healthcare, however, I am not sure that his stance is all that courageous. As long as there is no big bad public option, Joe will vote with the big gov Dems. He is making a stand against the public option to protect all of those insurance jobs in CT – in this case, there is no principled stand, he is simply acting like yet another parochial Senator.
All spending bills must originate in the house. The Health Care overhaul has now satisfied that requirement. How? The progressives allowed the Stupak amendment to come to a vote and the Republicans were naive enough to vote for it, giving the blue dog democrats cover to vote for the bill. Dumb, dumb, dumb.
In the Senate, Lieberman says he’ll allow the bill to come for the floor for amendments, but won’t vote for the bill if it contains something or another. Wake up folks, Lieberman is going to be the man who passed Obamacare.
Lots of amendments will give ever more cover to the blue dogs; the Republicans will support this effort. The entire bill is a ‘public option’ bill with an additional ‘public option’ add on that will be struck down. Lieberman will have satisfied his commitments, blue dogs will have cover and Republicans will brag how they defeated the ‘public option’
We are such children…
Since the 2004 election I have been impressed with Lieberman. I remember prior to the Iowa Caucus, when he was still running for Pres., there was a debate with only half the candidates. When asked directly what our position should be with Taiwan and China, he was the only one willing to stand up and directly say we should stand with the Democracy and go to war with China if they attacked Taiwan. Not a popular position in the Democratic Party, and especially in the Iowa pacifist Democratic party; but one of principal. I would bet he would say the same thing today, no matter the public opinion. I have never voted for a Democrat in my life, but I would vote for him if given the chance.
Joe is an ass. He’ll do anything as long as the press tells him he’s important. he’s an attention whore. thats why his ‘ideals’ now are the complete opposite of the one’s he held so dear as gore’s vp candidate.
tell em what they want to hear. sounds like romney: remember he passed hcr in mass. before opposing it nationally?
If you are asking Lieberman or Obama, it has to be Lieberman hands down. But if you’re asking if Lieberman is the best candidate over all, I’m not convinced. I like his independence, and I’m not put off by the social liberalism (in his case, I’d say more libertarian) stance, but I want someone who will pare away federal government interference in our daily lives, try to cut back our federal government over-regulation, taxing, and spending, and allow Americans to cut or expand state governments as they see fit. I’m not at all sure Lieberman is that man.
“I have to say you are wrong here Dave…”
Well, I hate to be the one to break it to you but he had to run as an independent last time around, because the Demo-traitors basically drummed him out of the party for supporting America in the good ol’ GWOT instead of supporting his ever treasonous former political party and their attempts to sabotage the war.
He wouldn’t be a Jefferson Davis or a Mike Gravel….so they kicked his butt to the curb.
It was the very same Joe Lieberman who gave Sarah Palin the best advice when McCain aides were overprepping her:
“I think I know you well enough already, Gov Palin, to know you need to be free…to speak from the heart.” He “told her to trust herself and have fun.”
Sounds like he follows his own advice.
CSM “Sarah Palin on Oprah Winfrey Show: Five best outtakes”
http://bit.ly/2PFKEH
I don’t think Obama should even be senator from Connecticuit.
Anyway, Lieberman is totally dispenable. He’s just not as big of a scumbag as the rest of the Slaver-crats, JimCrowo-crats, Commmie-crats, Traitor-crats…or whatever they’re called these days.
Senator Lieberman understands that entitlements will choke us. He also understands why Israel is a valuable ally, and it has nothing to do with his faith.
I think that Lieberman’s social views are pretty centrist. My only objection to him is the same objection that I have with lots of Democrats and Republicans-they always use government as a tool to solve problems rather than private society. Sometimes it’s messier to use the private sector, but it always seems better in the end.
What I like about old Joe is that he’s not afraid to let a matter of principle get in the way of him doing what he thinks is right. I mean, it’s rather noble of him to now embrace the filibuster as his God-given right as a senator after he repeatedly called for the removal of that procedure previously on the principled grounds that it is an undemocratic way of preventing majority rules to be enacted in Congress. His purity of conviction in abandoning principles is awe-inspiring. What a serious man on a serious mission to do serious good for….umm….whoever it is he’s doing it for.
Joe is a liberal Democrat in one of the bluest of blue states in the country. But for his hawkish views in support of Israel (what is it with jews who support democrats who DON’T support Israel??) and his opposition to a government option to healthcare, he is as blue as they get. Joe is playing his cards carefully. He wants something from Harry Reid.
I like Joe right now, but I do remember when he was running for vice-president with Al Gore. He went “left” with many of his values, and I found it disconcerting. I could not understand why he would change all of his values simply to be aligned with Al Gore.To put it succintly (sp?) I thought he “goes with the flow” but sometimes is reminded as to what is right.
Honesty, integrity. These are traits we see in politicians who agree with our point of view. Please stop endowing Lieberman with more than just playing his political cards. He is no better, no worst than someone like Arlen Specter. You have to admire them for their skill at staying in the game, not for having moral courage.
number 72
Moral Courage.
Please do not invoke…words that you do not understand. Cus it involves empathy as in…your point of view, caring about the poor, caring about the unemployed, caring about people, caring about humanity..
do you care?
no you dont
Lieberman is like a Blue Dog Democrat: Not to be trusted. He votes with the Democrats for a reason since he is a very liberal guy for the most part. He is as important as Arlen Specter, Olympia Snowe, John McCain, & Charlie Crist; in other words, he is not important at all.
What you see depends on where you look:
Look at a map, and see a lot of
Blue States drowning in red ink.
Look at the economy, and see a
concussed pugilist one punch away
from the mat.
Look an Lieberman and Palin, and
see the honesty and courage which
_may_ be able to hold the country
together during the Hard Times
to come; National survival, folks,
not politics as usual.
Lieberman knows first hand the dangers of being silent when one should speak.
Lieberman is great on foreign policy. He recently announced he will filibuster a health care reform plan that includes a public option. Maybe his politics are changing.
I saw Joe speak at the Daniel Pearl Memorial lecture at Stanford severa lweeks ago. He was very impressive both the content of his talk and his performance during the q&a. I realized that he can be an excellent candidate. So I agree with Roger.
#57. Poor Citizen:
You could at least try to do your homework. The Democrat party has controlled both houses of Congress since 2006, and I don’t have any idea where you got the idea that the Republican party controlled the judicial branch of government any time recently.
Lieberman is your father’s Democrat – you know, the patriotic kind that liked taxes a bit more than his elephantine brethren. But, in times of war, it was hard to really tell the difference between parties. There is a reason the retired set votes Dem virtually 60/40. They grew up in an era where you never questioned Dems or Repubs loyalty to their country. Many of my clients are senior lifelong Dems and in recent discussions they are sick to death (and scared) of Obama and will pull the R lever in 2010 as they did in 80′ and in 94′. Bank it, this healthcare SNAFU (despite the AARP endorsement) is scaring the elderly away from the Dems in droves! Hell, I wonder how many boomerang grads begin to question their liege lord O’ as they spend their umpteenth month in the guest room in Dad’s finished basement with no job?
This will be the moment that defines him forever. We will see what path he chooses for the history books.
#56 Ruvy – I’ve said this to you before, but apparently you failed to notice or remember.
Do you know that Governor Palin had three flags in her office? The American flag, the Alaskan flag, and the Israeli flag. Do you really believe you can’t trust her as regards Israel? Really?
Means what she says and says what she means. Talks the talk, and walks the walk.
“for me, support for Israel means supporting our right to all of the land between the Jordan and the Mediterranean.”
You want Jews to be a minority on their own land?
The only alternative to a two-state solution is an Arab majority state.
Do you know that Governor Palin had three flags in her office? The American flag, the Alaskan flag, and the Israeli flag. Do you really believe you can’t trust her as regards Israel? Really?
Marc, I knew all this stuff when I found out she was to be the VP pick for McCain. At first I was really impressed. I watched a video of her being interviewed in her office (and saw the flag of the State there). I watched a video of how she handled a church ceremony in Wasilla, and saw a person who could inspire millions to war. This is the woman who could get rid of many of your problems by inspiring people to act decisively.
Obama, by contrast, is a Harvard élitist of the worst kind, a white bread fascist hiding in black skin and educated by a Stalinist subversive. ’nuff said,
Then I dug a little deeper into Palin. Palin’s church is a dominionist Christian church, part of a bunch associated with the “Army of Joel”. These guys like Israel a lot – but have their own plans for the place, and definitely have their own plans for Jews.
Let’s put it this way. They are at the stage where Martin Luther was when he appealed to Jews for help against the Catholic hierarchy. Eventually, the Jews rejected Luther, and he became a nasty Jew-hater who should have been cut down by a Jew – but Jews stayed out of Christian politics, for the most part. It was dangerous as all hell. It still is.
Lots of national camp Jews (like me) will prefer to ignore the stuff about the Army of Joel and what it really means to us – Palin is pretty, she is real, she has charisma, and probably a healthy dose of pheromones as well. It is also likely that there will be a crisis in the States where Jews will be persecuted, and folks loosely attached to the dominionist churches will likely be helping Jews survive in what will be a very hostile environment. So Sarah Palin will get plenty of support from Jews – and it may not help us at all….
I’m a suspicious gus, Marc. Jews have had too many “friends” who have stabbed us in the back. I’m careful.
The only alternative to a two-state solution is an Arab majority state.
No. The only alternative to a two-state solution is a one-state solution. When you consider this attitude on the part of the Wahhabi trash running the Arab portions of Judea and Samaria, the only solution is to kill the terrorist leaders off and annex the territory – expelling out those Arabs who insist on maintaining state of rebellion against the constituted legitimate authority here, Israel.
Hey Ruvy
What are you going to do with those Israelis that don’t agree with your final solution to the Muslim problem?
Roger deep down you are still a Scoop Jackson Democrat.
Roger, I don’t object to the thrust of what you say. I object to the precepts it reveals.
Lieberman is a US SENATOR. He looks good only in comparison to the rest who are reprobates without exception.
The precept here is that lowered standards can make a commonplace nebbishy suburbanite into a great leader.
We’ve had senates like this before in the 19th Century, but this smacks more of Rome in the 3rd.
Hey Ruvy
What are you going to do with those Israelis that don’t agree with your final solution to the Muslim problem?
Let’s worry about that when it’s a problem. Right now, it is not an issue at all….
“Final solution to the Muslim problem?” Nah, I didn’t talk about death camps – that’s how Nazis think, not me. Even Arabs don’t think that way. They like blood – lots of blood.
So, the ticket to “final solutions” in this “hood” is massacres. Go talk to the Arabs about that. They are the experts at massacres. Thousands of Lebanese, thousands of their own at the hands of the Jordanian Army, twenty thousand dead at Hama (Syria), not to mention all the black Christians in Sudan. The Arabs didn’t exactly write the book on massacres, but they’ve sure contributed some significant chapters.
Massacres are not my thing, Joseph. I’m just not the guy to talk to about “final solutions”.
I’ll get excited about Joe, or any other career politician for that matter, when he starts talking about real issues… like why J. Anthony Morris was fired from the FDA, for starters.
It is nice to see Sen. Lieberman honored as he is here. To me he has always been the exception that proves the rule: There can be honest politicians on either side of the divide.
Ruvy, like most rejectionists of two-state solution, you have no solution to the problems that Israel faces. You urge Israel to “kill the terrorist leaders off” but this will do nothing about the demographic problems that I raise.
Everyone opposed as matter of principle to the idea of Israel relinquishing control of the West Bank needs to say if they are willing to give West Bank Arabs the same rights that Israeli Arabs have today. If not, you either have to support forcibly removing them to another country (and who would want them?) or else admit that you have no problem with permitting “the only democracy in the Middle East” to annex the West Bank but not give its residents full political rights. Which is it? Put up or shut up.
As I said, it looks like you want Jews to have to become a minority group in the Land of Israel.
One of Lieberman’s great strengths is that he has a sense of humor. Unlink the dour power grabber’s of both parties, he has sufficient perspective to laugh at himself and see issues from multiple angles.
Joe is the only liberal that I ever vote for. I first voted for him when he was running for Lowell Wieker’s Senate seat. I knew that Weiker was the least honist man in the Republican Party and would make all Republicans look bad as long as he was in office. So I voted for the Attoney General who’s big accomplishments were busting strip clubs and saving double coupon days. Surprisingly Joe has delighted me by being the most honist Democrat in the US Senate.
People outside of Connecticut can not imagine the abuse that joe is taking right now. The local liberal newspaper (there isn’t another any other kind of local newspaper in this state) treat him as badly as they treat Sarah Palin. They only publish letters that are critical of him.
I wish he knew mort about the founding fathers and the principles of the American Exceptionalism. Practical economics would also help but if he stands against Obamacare I would favor keeping Senator Lieberman on as the token liberal in the Senate.
Lieberman is an updated Moynihan: when the chips are down he’ll vote left.
I would rather see a DEAD CAT as President than the Exalted O-Man! Other than that, I concur completely with your comments about Senator Lieberman.
Lieberman is a very liberal Democrat who goes whichever way the wind blows. He supported the Iraq War because he knows Israel hangs in the balance. He had the chance to be an Independent once the Democrats threw him aside but he chose to caucus with them for committee positions. He is a liberal and get’s way too many free passes from Republitards like Hannity.
We need to get Joe in a room with those who can convince him of the global warming hoax so he will stop supporting cap and trade.
I don’t like the idea of the government becoming an insurance broker – telling us what policies we need to buy, how much we need to pay, and then giving us to a company to provide the services. robs me of my right to free choice. I can’t understand how any American can agree to this. It’s the same with card check: it robs us of our right to a secret ballot – which I’ve heard unions like. I don’t want to give up my right to make the choices in my life. The latest scandal over breast cancer screenings should be a wake up call. The Panel has decided that screenings don’t work – regardless of the scientific evidence to the contrary. The Panel will set policy. Eventually. Our doctors and the insurance companies will be made to follow the policy. American women will die needlessly. That is Obamacare in a nutshell. Who can support this? We should see the writing on the wall. This is an omen of things to come.
The senator sees Integrity as a holistic concept. His perceptions come from a consistency of thing and se of actions. His values are not those of a jew! they are of an American of Jewish history. History hangs with Joe Lieberman. He measures his actions and does not abandon his principles. He expects the best going into a political battle. He is one of a handful of politician’s who are unique in that they have not become arrogant. He is by almost any measure a man for the people. I hope and believe he will think very long on the healthcare issue or any issue for that matter. We need to survive until
11/2/10. check “6″
Ruvy
Muslims generally and Palestinians certainly have more than their fair share of murderous actions we all can point to but that doesn’t mean the Israelis have completely clean hands either. According to Morris (Benny Morris an Israeli historian born in 1948) the Israelis were responsible for 24 massacres during the ’48 war. Of course the Palestinians aren’t pure either their count is 2 or 3 according to Morris. As for more recent events, Baruch Goldstein’s murder of 29 and the wounding of 150 in 1994(source of both Wikipedia).
Now I know that Israelis can point to lots and lots of examples of equally vicious behavior by Muslims and Palestinians. Most folks in this country with some historical perspective can point to lots and lots of vicious behavior by Native Americans but few of us now would suggest ethnic cleansing on any scale much less that done by our ancestors. Equally your suggestion to ethnically cleanse the West Bank is going to haunt your descendants and will be repudiated. Also the world wouldn’t stand by while you did it.
I don’t know what the solution is but yours is pretty vicious IMHO.
The New Yorker Magazine has a pretty good article about Gaza by Lawrence Wright in it’s Nov. 9th issue, I highly recommend it if you wish to see another point of view.
As for Joe he is too tainted for Democrats and too liberal for Republicans. Poor Joe stuck between a rock and a hard place, but who knows algae sometimes survives in similar situations.
RE:63.
No Dave, the party didn’t kick him out, Lieberman lost his Democratic Primary to Ned Lamont, and as stated the party has let him keep his post despite campaigning for McCain.
#56 Ruvy wrote: “I can’t trust Sarah Palin. She may have other agenda hidden under those red dresses of hers which will not do us in Israel any good at all.”
Ruvy, I don’t understand these kinds of statements at all. I’m sorry I just don’t. If you want to see true Anti-Semitism you need to look at the secular and religious left.
The religious right have been the most ardent supporters of Israel for YEARS and have received nothing but abuse from the Jewish community. They are, on average the least anti-Semitic people you will deal with. Most of them actually take the promise in the Abrahamic covenant literally. They believe that they will receive a blessing from God because they bless Jews. Let me rephrase that. They believe that giving honor to Jews on both a personal and corporate level, will entitle them to a divine blessing. Many believe that Israel should occupy a nation with borders given to Moses and extend from just North East of Egypt to Southern Turkey and include the nations of Syria, Lebannon, Jordan and part of Iraq.
When I was in graduate school at UT Austin I had a Jewish classmate from the North East. Her father was a Rabbi and they were concerned that she was going to get lynched because of the anti-Semitic, jackbooted Christians march around Austin. They had a hard time believing it when she told them that absolutely nobody cared if she were Jewish. It didn’t matter. It was less of an issue than if ehe’s been in NYC.
Are there a few people who claim to be Christians who openly anti-semitic? Yes, but it isn’t the majority and the few are not generally welcome in churches unless they repent. Your statement is, in fact so offensive that it is difficult to reply to without anger. I suggest that you actually have some personal interaction with the people you are defaming. I believe that you’d find that you owe them an apology.
#93 Avitar I too voted JL his first time; Weicker indeed was despicable. A friend of mine used to always call him either
“3-Wives Weicker” or “The WHALE”. I saw him on the street once;
I’m 6’5 1/2″ tall; we could have had an evenly-matched staring contest, but he would have won, as I would have been too distacted by his double bulk. Sometimes Joe reminds me of Pat Moynihan (D-NY in Senate, but served in Nixon’s cabinet) in terms of thoughtfulness. Also, wasn’t JL the only senator to give
Boy Clinton a talking-to, from the floor?
“No Dave, the party didn’t kick him out, Lieberman lost his Democratic Primary to Ned Lamont…”
LOL.
Joseph, let’s put all this silly talk to bed. I never claimed virgin sheets for Jewish or Israeli fighters. What I said was that the Arabs are experts at massacres. They make whatever we have done look like small change.
The other thing I said is that When you consider this attitude on the part of the Wahhabi trash running the Arab portions of Judea and Samaria, the only solution is to kill the terrorist leaders off and annex the territory – expelling out those Arabs who insist on maintaining state of rebellion against the constituted legitimate authority here, Israel. I stand by that.
The Wahhabi trash running Ramallah and Gaza are the spiritual descendants of Hitler. Bullets are too good for them – but you gotta use something to rid the world of this satanic garbage.
#56 Ruvy wrote: “I can’t trust Sarah Palin. She may have other agenda hidden under those red dresses of hers which will not do us in Israel any good at all.” Ruvy, I don’t understand these kinds of statements at all.
You do not understand them because you do not know what I’m talking about. It is not Christian Jew-hatred. Your own comment is filled with all sorts of assumptions about views I do not have, and therefore, do not express. But at least read my comment #84. I already explained my views to Mark Malone.
He’s a nebbish. Fire them all, including him.