Sheryl, Madeleine and I are up in the Japanese Alps now in the city of Matsumoto and environs. Matsumoto is famous for one of the great enduring samurai castles known as the Crow Castle for its black walls. The place seemed familiar to me as the location from some Kurosawa movie or other, possibly Ran, but I could be mistaken.
The interior was quite worth visiting with the usual compliment of bizarre torture weapons. An entire floor was hidden from outside view and had no windows. In this photo Sheryl and Madeleine are in the samurai arcade, which was built wide to accomodate their armor.
In the afternoon we took a train out to the suburban town of Hotaka to visit a wasabi farm – definitely heaven for your basic California sushi maven. Tasting the genuine article at the source (most wasabi in domestic sushi bars is not even wasabi, but dyed horseradish) was great fun. They make everything out of wasabi at this farm — chocolate wasabi (didn’t try), wasabi ice cream (Madeleine loved) and pickled wasabi (sensational). The wasabi root is grown in heavily irrigated, almost muddy, land with water maintained at 13 degrees centigrade year round. Wasabi is obviously delicate suff.
The farm is a well-known attraction up here and there were a couple of hundred Japanese tourists wandering around, drinking wasabi beer, etc. Absolutely no Caucasians but us. Westerners just don’t seem to travel around rural Japan in any numbers. They are missing a fabulous experience. The people are very friendly and the country, of course, well organized with superb public transportation. All you need is a phrase book and a little patience if you mix up stations like Oyama and Omiya, get off at the wrong stop and miss your bullet train connection. [You did that?-ed? Nah, it's just a rumor.]
The first picture for Aug. 22 of the Crow Castle shows someone in the foreground sweeping the sidewalk, surely a humble job if there ever was one. How do the Japanese, notoriously hostile to immigration by non-Japanese, manage to get their humble jobs done without massive immigration of serf labor from neighboring countries? Perhaps the Japanese think they have a culture worth preserving. Do we?
Um, DC, while the Japanese are notoriously hostile to immigration, they are opening up to more foreign labor, not trying to curtail it.
On the question of whether we have a culture worth preserving, you might consider that this is an article written by an LA Jew who talks about being a sushi maven, that our traditional foods are frankfurters and hamburgers, our national celebration is marked with fireworks (China), and that prtty much the only indigenous culture in a big part of the US is Spanish-speaking, antedates the US by a few hundred years, and derives in a big way from the Pueblo and Anasazi Indians who were here long before that.
Or, alternatively, you could just go on being a damn fool.
Oh, and the notion that people who sneak into this country for jobs here constitutes “serf labor” is ahistorically ignorant of what serfs are.
Roger, I’m pretty sure “Throne of Blood” was shot there. I don’t remember the castles in “Ran” for some reason.
And man, you’re still killing me.
dchamil,
Likely, the sweeper of the path is a groundskeeper, at some level a gardener, and thus engaged in a proud occupation humbly. Not everyone sweeps in Japan, but most do. The best sweepers of course are the Zen priests, though the young’uns in training are often a bit tense in the jowl line and their stroke uneven. Next, second graders in elementary school. With first grade over and a year of training under their belt they have the basics down and still aim to please the adults and themselves. Schools don’t have janitors, thus up and through high school students and teachers and the principal (always sweeping and cleaning are those principals) maintain the building. Third, in my opinion, are the shopkeepers. But third is a close call and might include just about everyone else. Now a foreigner sweeping, without the right perspective and willingness to learn, is a sad, pitiful sight, and thankfully a sight one seldom encounters. But a foreigner going about it in the right way, would garner a lot of respect and support. Of course sweeping would be a part of a larger job. I know an owner of a small store, five employees, a foreigner who is a very good sweeper. Every morning at the same time he is cleaning in front of his building. Building relations with the neighbors. He enjoys sweeping very much and is very good at it. Spends good money on the tools of the trade too. In a word, two thougts: sweeping is humble, I agree, but not something to be ashamed of, quite the opposite. Humility is good. Cleaning Godly. Two: I think the hostility to immigration meme is greatly overplayed. Come on over. Learn the language. Fit in. Great chance to succeed. Why I was talking to an owner of a company that produces Miso on a large scale just the other day. His great-great-great-great-great grandfather came over with not two yen to his name, worked hard and played by the rules and the family continues to do quite well. And yes, the owner sweeps the road in front of his factory, along with the other workers, every morning. Right after mandatory morning stretch and announcements.
Yama
Westerners just don’t seem to travel around rural Japan in any numbers.
I’m somewhat happy to hear that. Not being, I suppose, an average westerner I would want to spend all my time in rural Japan, not the cities.
p.s. Reconsidering, I can’t help but worry I threw in a few too many “greats” as they seem to be a long living clan. I’ll check later, though I won’t waste anymore bandwidth reporting back. Signing out.
Yama,
Unless they made a practice of marrying at 18. Is there a family story of the first fellow waving at Commodore Perry’s ship as it sailed away? ‘Course, they might be Dutch or Russian (or anything else for that matter).
Nice lesson on sweeping.
Roger,
More pictures, please.
Rick,
The family is originally from the large continent just to the West of Japan: “China” is I believe what they mistakenly call that place these days. As for coming over, settling in, and making miso to turn a profit, fairly late to the game in fact. Many, many “Chinese” came before them, surely. Closed to the West, especially a West intent on colonization and running the show, is a far cry from closed. Though, if I were to make a conjecture, I believe it is true one would find the Edo period wasn’t nearly as welcoming to immigrants as Heian. On the other hand technology made the journey over easier, and lines of communications had obviously multiplied so who knows. Who knows: code for someone who does please tell me. Anyway, I repeat, Japan and a good deal of the culture, is made on the shoulders of immigrants. Something so obvious to the Japanese it barely needs mentioning.
Would have replied sooner, but I was out front sweeping.
Rick,
p.s. Send me an email. I need to apologize to you and I can’t find your address.
Yama-sama … as I recall, one of our mutual ancestors was in fact Chinese. In any case, I can’t resist from pointing out that unless one is Ainu, it’s pretty clear that Japan was welcoming to foreigners at some time or other.
PS. Fix Ura-sensei’s site for pete’s sake.
PPS. Send natto.
Those who are in favor of a ìglobal cultureî in principle are often fans of ethnic particularization in practice. In a truly global, homogenized world Japan will be indistinguishable from Los Angles or New York or Des Moines. Yama and Roger and Charlie are all clearly fans of a distinctly Japanese culture, which only has meaningful existence alongside other distinct cultures. Itís interesting that Roger is visiting what sounds like the Japanese equivalent of a Wild West theme park in the US.
There exists a distinctly ethnic Japanese identity and a distinctly Jewish ethnic identity as well. In a ìglobalî world in which ethnic particularism is deemed reactionary and dangerous, how can the continued existence of such concepts be defended, and should they be defended?
Charlie,
As usual you dig deep and get to the heart of the matter.
As for Uranari’s site, blame me. As a co-blogger there I had access and in order to make a point I felt needed to be made I deleted it. My way of winning an argument we were having. It is a long, complicated story too boring to tell, and I apologize to the few who took the time to read his site now and then– Especially to you and Wallace and Morgan and Wonderduck and a few others. I can say that Uranari is an artist at a certain point in his life and must be protected from certain things that are likely to get in the way of more important things, and not being very good at doing this himself, being far too much of a nice guy and naive, it is a very good thing he has a few good, stern friends who take initiative on his behalf now and then. Of course, counting myself as one of them, I get to crash at his place and eat all his food and use his computer and email, so I can’t say I act in a purely altruistic fashion.
As for the natto, don’t they have some in your part of the woods?
Yama
The pictures are magnificent
and so you have answered my question – they’ve got plenty, but still, come home alredy
Call me crazy but Madeline looks like she’d rather be at Atlantis
but hey that’s just my opinion
charlie
“In any case, I can’t resist from pointing out that unless one is Ainu, it’s pretty clear that Japan was welcoming to foreigners at some time or other.”
Unless you have evidence that the Ainu welcomed the Japanese, I don’t think that is very clear at all.
When I was stationed in Germany during the 70′s, I noticed many a German hausfrau out sweeping and washing the sidewalks in front of their homes.
Yama, add kendoka to the sweeping hall of fame, although they are even better at wiping down a huge gymnasium with wet rags by hand.
Flenser,
Patriotic and proud neo-cons of the world unite?
But seriously (if I wasn’t being serious), you raise good questions.
I don’t think I defend a Japanese identity, in fact I know I don’t care two hoots about identity, but rather I feel myself defending excellence which happens to be a product of those who live now and lived before in Japan. Those excellent things tend to be made and understood best by those who recognize the obvious: that Japanese culture (for lack of a better word) has benefitted from outside influences every bit as particular as the particular influences Japanese culture has imparted outside its borders and 2) the high is often something that starts of as something very low, and through the good fortune of one or a few great historical minds, takes a leap over a chasm and becomes something very high. (Kabuki began as a go-go dance.) It is not a progress! but a jump! Some cultures for a variety of reasons, are more able to provide a springboard for such jumps and do a better job of protecting this springboard. Thus I defend not an identity but the springboard and the few who have used it to fly very, very high indeed. Ultimately, I defend “Heian” and the riches it has brought. As such, I have no difficulties also defending with the same vigilance the Greek enlightenment or the enlightment which took place in what is now Iraq or the Old Testament.
A small point, since the larger point above is really quite incoherent. The castle in Matsumoto which Roger visited is a far, far cry from “the Japanese equivalent of a Wild West theme park in the US.” Much, much different experience for Japanese, and I trust most foreigners too.
Studebaker Hawk,
Right you are, right you are!
And the wiping of the floors, to which you speak, should be an Olympic sport in my opinion.
Yama-sama, I think the “Wild West theme park” reference was to Edo Wonderland rather than Okayamajo. But your real point is, I think, a strong one: living, vital cultures, whether we’re talking about Nippon, China or Mei guo, absorb and adapt to “intrusions” from outside; cultures which don’t, like Tokugawa Japan, may not change as quickly, but the changes they see are primarily rot. (Insert crafty metaphor of the containers at the back of my refrigerator here; I’m just not up to it today.)
And, as to your other question, yeah, we’ve got natto here. Sorta.
And beware: if Roger keeps posting these pictures, I’m coming over there. Know anywhere I can get chankonabe in Kyoto?
(Here’s a cool link on one cultural syncretism….)
By the way, Yama, glad to see you back … did you find what you were looking for?
Charlie,
There’s a place on the Northern edge of Yasaka Shrine. Can’t miss it, a pair of Konishki’s pants are hanging at the entrance. Haven’t been, so I can’t tell if it is any good, but I trust they don’t use K’s socks to strain the broth.
Thanks for the warm welcome. Short answer: no. Leaving again in a few days.
Nice link Charlie. Indeed. As I added over there one seminal work on this topic: The Great Wave: the influence of Japanese woodcuts on French prints, by Colta Feller Ives
Yama,
If it were an Olympic sport, then the first gold medal would have to go to Eiga-san who, after losing to Miyazaki-san in the Zen Ken Taikai, went to his dojo and wiped the entire floor by himself to contemplate what he was doing wrong and how he could change.
Konishiki’s pants as a noren! What an idea, brilliant!
Short answer: no. Leaving again in a few days.
Did you look under the bed?
Yama-Dan-san,
Will you accept an Olympic Sport for which sweeping is an essential part?
Stud,
Not quite noren. Though wouldn’t that be interesting. Just right of the entrance if my memory serves. Huge. Some sewing and helium and its around the world in eighty days.
Cleaning as contemplation and reflection. Now we’re getting somewhere. As well, a way to project authority and vigor and attention to deal. Nothing like having your teacher standing at the front entrance with a broom in hand, sweeping in earnest, to straighten up your spine as you approach and add needed timbre to your voice as you greet him.
Charlie,
“Did you look under the bed?” Ahh, the tragedy of sleeping on the floor.
Knucklehead,
If the sweepers, in addition to guiding the thingamabob down to its resting place, had to also clean up a mess on their way down then yes.
“of” should be “off” (a repeat offender)
Dan cliff
Iím sure the esthetic experience of visiting Matsumoto is rather different then that of a Wild West theme park, and also from that of visiting the Tower of London, or of Craggaunowen in Ireland, or Williamsburg in Virginia, or similar sites around the world. What they have in common is the effort to preserve the memory of a time which no longer exists.
Interaction between different cultures sometimes results in destructive conflict, but on occasion gives rise to a tremendous burst of creativity.
This poses questions for us in the modern world which is moving inexorably towards global homogenization. If the world of 2405 has a single global culture with a shared language and identical societal preconceptions, it will probably be a much more peaceful place. But will it provide the ìspringboardsî which you speak of? Probably not. In which case, is the tradeoff a worthwhile one?
Gee, Yama-sama, if it’s not under the bed, I wonder where it could be?
Flenser,
“If the world of 2405 has a single global culture with a shared language and identical societal preconceptions, it will probably be a much more peaceful place.” I hardly think it would be a more peaceful place, as your explanation of such a time is the stuff of the sophistications of the tyranny that would then exist as it tried to cover-up reality and tyrannies, particular or worldwide (per impossible), are never peaceful. Shared language? Ain’t going to happen. Anymore than the extent that a good deal of these words I’ve typed are French, Latin, and Greek in origin or that the Japanese I speak uses a lot of Chinese loanwords (English loan words too, but you wouldn’t understand their pronunciation if I said them and the meaning often changes as well.) Heck, I can go three towns over from the place I’m at now and hear Japanese remarkably different from what is spoken here. At root I think, Flenser, you still consider possible some kind of Marxian/Hegelian fantasy. Can’t even get the EU together and China is about to come apart (I use the word “about” in a liberal way). And no Kyoto will never look like Kansas City or LA or whereever. It will be Kyoto. Or under water or encased in ice (depending on your views on climate warming). Other possibilities as exist, I admit. But it will either be Kyoto or not be.
No springboards and no peace–definitely not worth it. But not possible either, so I don’t let it keep me up at night.
I understand your point about the castle, but it leaves a difficult taste in my mouth I find hard to explain. Such places do exist now as well, and are often not so much about preservation of a memory or searching for the past, or lamenting the lose of a golden age and all the rest as one might think. Though I agree they do impart a historical lesson that is quite important. But on a simple level, going to the castle in Matsumoto is a good place to pick up a girl (or boy) or have a date. Get some food. Or get a good sky high view of the city. And a whole bunch of other things too. In Kyoto I spend a lot of time in the area where the aristocracy used to live and play. Gosho–the emperor’s former residence and grounds. I reminisce and think about those times, sometimes, but usually I eat and play tennis and baseball, spy on the women, write, sleep, etc…. And, like yesterday, watch the Emperor and Empress come in to spend a night on their way to Kobe. This point and a few more as well……
Slightly off topic
Slightly off topic.
Oh, I like it.
Flenser,
I agree with Yama that there will not be a single global culture and language. What we see today, however, is the free flow and interactions of cultures in the marketplace. So, we have access to all manner of food, music, ideas, etc. Mixing does not mean homogeneity. There is no problem with immigrants bringing these things, or staying at home and developing their own hybrid versions of our culture (plus theirs). The problem, when there is one, lies at the level of political institutions and resentments thereof.
If America, for example, has a large flow of immigrants who are antagonistic to the American constitution and its attendant founding principles, then there is a potential for disorder and violence because you can’t have a “multicultural” polity without a unifying center with its attendant rituals and particular historical lineage. People must assimilate to political institutions and local rules of the game (including the language used in public life), but that does not mean assimilation in everything else. If you have good political institutions it means quite the opposite: the construction of strong social orders through ongoing differentiation. There would be nothing peaceful about homogeneity: the loss of difference is what conflict effects. Difference is the deferral of conflict.
Truepeers, going back to dc’s original post, there is something I think is very important in this whole issue: what is American culture?
I am very much suspicious that most everyone who immigrates to the US, either legally or illegally, is doing so because they want what America has to offer: relative safety, relative freedom, relatively little corruption, relatively strong support for the rule of law, relatively great availability of food, clothing and shelter, relatively high wages even for unskilled jobs, and so on. This, I suspect, is true not just of hispanics, but of the Chinese, Moslems, and Africans.
The ones who immigrate with that in mind are, in my opinion, Americans who are coming to fit into American culture. No matter what they like to eat or what language they speak.
As usual Truepeers says elegantly what I couldn’t.
More about the nature of different regimes than culture, the wars we fight and the problems we have. Paleos focus on the culture, and miss the forest for the trees, neo’s focus on regimes, and see the forest but need to do a better job in explaining this to the trees. The Left is lost in a modern fantasy of progress and completion that, as it is impossible, leads to temper tantrums and playing with matches.
The ones who immigrate with that in mind…
I agree with this sentiment, though I’d have put the desire to attain and achieve through honest work and innate talent near (maybe at) the top of the list.
I also think a person needs to consider himself American to really be American (and that would go for being a member of other nations/cultures as well). With that goes a willingness to accept the “rules of the game” as truepeers put it (rather nicely, I think), a desire to engage with all members of the culture, not just your own most similar sliver.
Roger,
You’re quite right that people miss the gorgeous contry-side of Japan.
By the way, can you recommend a guide book to your readers? – or perhaps boosk worth avoiding?
Thanks.
Morgan, on the “desire to attain and achieve through honest work” aspect, I couldn’t argue with you. I’m personally not sure if I see your notion as a consequence of my list, or mine as a consequence of yours.
On the other, though, I think there are too many counter-examples, from Irish pubs to Pennsylvania Dutch to Chinatowns and (my own bugaboo) parts of the southwest where Spanish is still spoken more readily than English. Not to mention Serbian Orthodox churches and the fact that you can get better polish sausage in Chicago than in Miami.
We just think of ourselves as having an “American” culture because we’re used to thinking of all those things as “American”.
A favorite snippet of conversation (as subtitled) from Japanese cinema:
Sakamoto: If we had won we’d both be in New York now. New York! No cheap imitation! The real New York in America.
Hirayama: I wonder…
Sakamoto: We’d be there. Because we lost young kids shake their behinds and dance to their hot jazz. But if we had won, the blue-eyed ones would be wearing wigs and chewing gum while plucking tunes on the samisen.
Hirayama: It’s lucky we lost.
from Ozu’s final film An Autumn Afternoon (1962)
Sakamoto was a petty officer on a ship commanded by Hirayama (the main character) during World War II. They’re drinking whisky in a bar after accidentally meeting for the first time since the war shortly before in a noodle shop where Hirayama is visiting a teacher that he and some of his friends had feted the night before. Great movie.
Crow Castle does not look familiar.
Truepeers
Welcome back, or have you just been lurking?
The homogeneous world I postulated would probably be a more peaceful one, if it ever came about. There is no question that getting there would involve bloodshed on a large scale. But history provides plenty of examples where different cultures became more alike through warfare. Think of the North assimilating the South.
My perception may be skewed due to living in the ultimate melting pot city, NY. But global trends do seem to be towards increasing homogenization. Immigrants who come to the US and return home take back with them American ideas. The Internet and mass entertainment (music and TV) increasingly cut across the boundaries of nationality and language. It’s hard to look at young English children swept up in the latest Japanese craze, Pokemon or whatever, while their older siblings listen to the latest in American rap music, and not notice the trend toward a global culture.
Even within NY (especially?) there are those who resist the flow, and I have seen Hungarian and Jewish and Chinese people who will only marry within their respective ethnic group. But the trend is to view that sort of behavior as suspect, if not outright bigoted. And within the prevailing ethos, it IS bigoted.
We have seen a large movement towards globalism in just the past fifty years, and the trend is accelerating. Our current ìclash of civilizationsî with Islam is just one byproduct. I expect the trend to continue.
Dan cliff
ì..you still consider possible some kind of Marxian/Hegelian fantasy.î
I’m going to go out on a limb here and guess that you have not seen me comment here in the past. And/or, you have a wicked sense of humor.
ìBut on a simple level, going to the castle in Matsumoto is a good place to pick up a girl..î
I’m a simple man myself. I’ll have to add Matsumoto to my itinerary if I ever make it over there.
Charlie
Your definition of American culture makes it sound like the absence of a culture. I’m sure that Japan has good food, safety, rule of law, and all the rest. I don’t think that makes them American, and I doubt that they or you think so either.
Flenser,
“I’m going to go out on a limb here and guess that you have not seen me comment here in the past. And/or, you have a wicked sense of humor.” To the first the answer is no. I have read your comments many times. Enjoyed them too. To the second: sometimes. Though usually it flops.
“If the world of 2405 has a single global culture with a shared language and identical societal preconceptions, it will probably be a much more peaceful place(my emphasis).”– The conditional part didn’t bother me or cause me to paint you into a corner you surely don’t deserve, but the conclusion that was drawn, which I have emphasized in the text, seems to suggest some lingering Marxian/Hegelian fantasy still lurking somewhere deep within your bones. Got a bit of the disease still lurking in my bones too thanks to a number of wasted years learning pablum in University. As you may already know I’m not to fast on the uptake, so if in the future you are presenting someone elses view or playing devils advocate first give me a good uppercut.
See you in Matsumoto!!!
Yamaarashi as Dan Cliff
“no”= yes I have seen your comments many times. sorry for the possible confusion. I can’t remember which language uses no in this case and which yes and which either….Anyway.
Yama/Dan
I don’t think a mono-cultural world is a desirable end, and I do think that that getting there would be exceptionally bloody. But it seems unremarkable to assert that such a world would be less prone to war. Or do you simply disagree that it is even possible?
Flenser, I have been doing a little lurking. But good to be in touch with you again.
I’m recalling an anecdote from the travel writer Jan Morris about staying in a New York hotel just after WWII; the hotel bragged about having every kind of food available; s/he ordered Calamari and they had no idea what it was.
But those New Yorkers – imagine high society types circa 1945 – living in their relatively closed world/culture (compared to ours) no doubt had a sense of the world as being full of unknown mysteries, of a certain diversity. But as the Calamari story shows, that diversity was not always part of their lives.
New York has always been a melting pot, but there’s no doubt more thrown into the stew today than in the past. And yet, familiarity with peoples and cultures breeds an implicit realization that people are not all so wildly different and exotic as it was once suspected or desired. We desire difference as a guarantee of some kind of social ordering.
The paradox, as I see it, is that familiarity may encourage a sense that the world is becoming homogeneous, even as we all have much more variety in our worlds than people in the past, diet being only the most obvious example. I take is as basic truth of history that we live in an expanding universe, but we also live in less isolated universes.
You are probably familiar with the California sushi roll, Chinese rap music, Japanese baseball, red-haired Koreans, Oregon yurts, etc. etc. Are these signs of homogeneity? I don’t think so, even as they are obviouly signs of a world more tightly knit together. The American north may have assimilated the south in some ways after the civil war, but there is today also a lot more south in the north (bourbon, Nascar, Nashville, Gone with the Wind). What you call a “global culture” is not homogeneous like New York dining was in 1945.
But all these comments are at the level of consumer society and economics. At the political level, there are inherent limits to integration. There will always be meaningful national differences accordingly (some of which, like French hauteur, will find their way into product signs you can purchase at your local store, and some of which will remain foreign – e.g. Sharia law.) And I imagine every language that today has established itself as a national (state) language will surive well into the future. It is true that some aspects of culture die away but if you counted up the total number of ways we have to differentiate ourselves (through consumer goods, language, social behaviours), you would find many more differences available to the average person today than in the past. A complex social system can only exist with many forms of differentiation.
Flenser,
Impossible and (hypothetically speaking, given my belief) more bloody. By orders and orders of magnitude. “Less prone to war” is word play. Tyranny is tyranny and the world-wide kind of tyranny you hint at would be the worst kind of tyranny possible, much worse than this and that particular tyranny. It wouldn’t be called war of course, but we’d be dying nevertheless, fighting back with our last ounce of being, and for those taking a different path, either enslaved or enslaving, well I’d much rather be us. Think North Korea everywhere. No war there I’m told, but of course we know differently. It is war just one side, without weapons and support, is losing terribly, being starved or re-educated (concentration camps) into oblivion. You and I agree getting that it would be bloody going down that path, but staying there would be just as, and even more, bloody in my opinion.
nix the “getting”
must start using preview
We just think of ourselves as having an “American” culture because we’re used to thinking of all those things as “American”.
But all those things are American and that collective, if you will, is the American culture.
Places that boast of mostly homogenous societies are nice to visit, but I wouldn’t want to live there. I’ve traveled quite a bit around our country and I love, revel in, our differences. Such richness! Ours is a patchwork quilt, even a crazy quilt, but one stitched together by master craftsmen with such great care and workmanship that, if we’re watchful and mindful of the occasional loose threads and minor, and even major from time to time, rips and tears, it should last through the ages.
Being Irish, I never would have thought that on a first visit to Ireland I would have experienced culture shock, but I did. Everybody who lived there looked like me. Everybody who was visiting looked like me. All the things that you think of as “typically Irish” aren’t just typical, they’re ubiquitous. The food is uniform (is it true that all the pubs use the same menu?), the clothing uniform, the architecture undeviating. At sporting events, only pasty white guys take the field. Ireland is a beautiful country full of great charm and lovely, warm people–a very nice place to visit.
Is there anywhere else on earth that can claim to have living within its borders people from every corner of the planet, every background, every race, ethnicity, religion and culture, of every political stripe or philosophical persuasion? It’s flat out amazing that we get on at all much less as well as we do. All those disparate parts coming together in a whole greater than their sum–the glue that holds it all together must be something special indeed. The parts, the whole, the process, the dynamic, the glue–those things are the culture and the culture is those things. And it is uniquely American.
I’m off to watch “Shogun”. I’ll respond tomorrow to some interesting posts, if y’all want to keep this thread alive. Looks like a good one.
Your definition of American culture makes it sound like the absence of a culture. I’m sure that Japan has good food, safety, rule of law, and all the rest. I don’t think that makes them American, and I doubt that they or you think so either.
Hmmm.
I’ll try again. During the end of year holiday season, observances in which I participate include putting up a Christmas tree, lighting the menorah, putting out luminarias on the street, eating black-eyed peas and collards, and ringing the big bell 108 times at midnight New Years Eve.
That’s um, pre-Christian Europe, Judiasm, Mexican/Spanish tradition, African tradition, and Japanese Buddhist tradition.
Which of these is not part of “American culture”?
How can you tell?
What is American culture, if not the culture of all of us who live in the place defined by “life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness”?
Kyda,
After living in Japan for a long time and going back to America it is almost impossible to describe the sheer weight of humanity that pressed on me as I walked through the airport. So many shapes and colors and sizes of all the people walking by, felt a bit like that scene in Star Wars at the bar. Surely, Roger is having something of a reverse experience in the countryside of Japan.
But I was very young too. Coming back to Japan I realized that the more I learned the language and dug into the culture and opened and trained my eyes, what was so monolithic on the surface, in fact wasn’t very monolithic at all. I guess what I’m trying to say is that it is important not to fall into the subtle trap of expecting a culture or a place to be monolithic, or finding it so at first glance, and feeling your work is done, failing to acquire the skills and attitude to see deeper into the nature of the place. Which is not to say any other place, not to mention Japan, can approach America’s particular kind of diversity, the great blessing that it is, but you’d be surprised how much I thought was the same I have now learned is incredibly different. Not at all alike. That Star Wars bar just outside my front door.
We just think of ourselves as having an “American” culture because we’re used to thinking of all those things as “American”.
But all those things are American and that collective, if you will, is the American culture.
Places that boast of mostly homogenous societies are nice to visit, but I wouldn’t want to live there. I’ve traveled quite a bit around our country and I love, revel in, our differences. Such richness! Ours is a patchwork quilt, even a crazy quilt, but one stitched together by master craftsmen with such great care and workmanship that, if we’re watchful and mindful of the occasional loose threads and minor, and even major from time to time, rips and tears, it should last through the ages.
We’re vigorously agreeing, methinks. We’re a syncretic culture, and we absorb it all; the result may be rich and strange, but that’s what it means to be “American” culture.
The interesting thing about Japan is that it does the same thing: there are probably no other languages in the world that adopt loan words as readily as do Japanese and English, and Japanese has not one, not two, but four systems of writing, all of which were more or less cribbed from somewhere else.
I got in trouble once (rightfully) for these words;
“What is American culture, if not the culture of all of us who live in the place defined by “life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness”?”
But from my simple viewpoint, that fairly well sums it up. You nailed it Charlie.
OK, Truepeers, you win. Charlie listed the unalienable rights so I had to go back and re-read the preamble and the lead up to their articulation. Now the mimetic construct that you write about is starting to sink in.
I think I may have hurt something.
Charlie–
We’re vigorously agreeing, methinks.
Oh good–I always prefer it when we are of like mind.
Yama–
After living in Japan for a long time and going back to America it is almost impossible to describe the sheer weight of humanity that pressed on me as I walked through the airport. So many shapes and colors and sizes of all the people walking by, felt a bit like that scene in Star Wars at the bar.
LOL–I had much the same experience during rush hour in Port Authority my first time back in New York after several years living in Newport Beach.
I would not wish to leave you with the impression that I equate homogenous with monolithic. Some cultures are neither, some are both. And some are homogenous yet layered and nuanced with a diversity that runs deep rather than wide. Like Japan’s. I would never make the mistake of thinking Japan monolithic (now Ireland on the other hand…).
BTW, I sense I missed something significant. Who is this Dan Cliff person anyway?
Kyda,
Not as homogenous as you might think. But that for another day. And compared to America, of course, everywhere is Newport Beach.
Dan Cliff. A long story. Not really a name, but a combination of a few names. I’d prefer to use the “yama” typekey account but I forgot my password and I no longer have the email account that would let me retrieve the secret word. Let that be a lesson to you young’uns who like stiff drink. Fortunately, my friend whose place I’m staying at as I await my next adventure has a little book filled with all sorts of passwords that are easy for the taking. Including this typekey account. Need some money from a Swiss bank?
Rick, that’s a little mysterious, but I take it you’re talking about your constitution?
I think most if not all that Charlie says about America (by which I think he means USA) could also be said about Canada. Except up here we have a higher proportion of immigrants (at least legal immigrants) relative to existing population (and most immigrants are Asian not Hispanic). And yet despite how much we share in common, there are some noticeable difference between Canada and the US. True, we sometimes overblow these differences because you have to have soem way of defining yourself, yet they exist in any case. I assume these are explained in large part by putting emphasis on the different political origins of the two countries. These things matter and they last as long as the nation state does. Even if you’re all speaking Spanish in a hundred years (which I doubt), if you’re still the USA you’ll still have to understand yourselves by revisiting the stories of the founding fathers and the constitution.
Well, Dan, if you’re offering…
Roger,
Did you try any pregnant snails or sample the horse meat while in Matsumoto? I hope you were able to view the castle at sunset – it shimmers as if it were silver. Must have impressed the Hell out of the average peasant when they saw it.
Orson2The best guidebook bar none for Japan is Gateway to Japan by June Kinoshita. Published by Kodansha and available from Amazon. I think it is an exceptional guide, but someone will undoubtedly disagree and tell you that I don’t know nothin’. Thats ok, because, after almost thirty years to the day of traveling or residing in Japan, I am forced to agree – I don’t.
Sorry Truepeers, forgot you were in the Great White. Nope, Declaration. I’ve always considered the opening paragragh to be the peculiarly American ‘glue’ that allows ease of assimilation.
Rick, there’s a key difference right there. For you the constitution is a single document in relation to which your other founding text is something else. For us, the constitution is a number of texts and unwritten conventions. Various implications. One, probably bigger headaches for constitutional law students up here.
Roger:
If you like castles, I suggest Inuyama Castle in the Nagoya area. It is, I believe, the only castle in Japan with the orginal donjon, or keep, still intact. Most castles in Japan, being built originally primarily of wood, were frequently burned during the roughly 100-year period of Japan’s civil war before the Tokugawa family consolidated its power; and even when they weren’t burned down in battles, they often were accidentally burned over the years. Many castles have been rebuilt using ferro-concrete, such as Osaka Castle.
Inuyama castle is quite small, but it is well worth the visit. One of the interesting features is a wall of wooden placards naming all of the hereditary fiefs in feudal Japan under the Tokugawa, arranged in order of income from the richest to the poorest.
I assume that your schedule is already planned, but if you have the chance, I strongly recommend that you visit Kanazawa, the capital of Ishikawa Prefecture. Kanazawa is an old castle town about the size of San Francisco in population and was the seat of government of the feudal domain of Kaga, the richest single fief in all of Japan. It is sometimes referred to as “the Kyoto of the North”, (a little presumptuous, perhaps) and while no city in Japan can compete with Kyoto on the cultural level, Kanazawa does a damn fine job of it for such an out-of-the-way country town. They boast one of the three most famous landscape gardens in Japan, Kenrokuen; there is a very interesting and carefully preserved samurai residential quarter; part of the castle has been rebuilt using traditional technology and materials (the orignal castle burned down in the Meiji Period); they have a wonderful open-air market, and Kanazawa is famous for Noh theater, painted silk textiles, pottery, and laquer-ware native to the area. Also, the local cuisine is wonderful, especially the fish, just about the best you can get anywhere in Japan.
Regarding the desirability or lack thereof of a “one-world culture”: I hope that never, ever happens. Cultures have always and will always influence each other. This is good. But when I go to Japan, I want it to be Japan, not some cheap copy of somewhere else. To the extent that cultural syncretism is natural and peaceful there should be no problem. But modern Western-style culture overwhelms things for a reason: it is dynamic, forward-looking, and it affords people choices and freedoms that they did not have in the past. People will always choose this if given the chance, and material affluence, such as Japan has now, makes this possible.
There may come a time when foreigners in Japan are accepted as an integral part of Japan as opposed to long-term visitors. But that will take a very long time, I think.
Ephraim,
I second your opinion on Kanazawa. The train ride up from Kyoto is also nice.
I’ll leave our debate about immigration for another time. Historically, as for immigrants playing an integral role in Japanese society, I think a case can be made that the time came and went, and came and went, and came and went a few more times and as for the present, I think much depends on the attitude of the foreigner. Opportunities abound with a little diligence and humility. And committment not to be a long term visitor but to bury your bones here.
I think most if not all that Charlie says about America (by which I think he means USA) could also be said about Canada.
Don’t think you’re gonna get me into that one. I lived in Toronto, I know you guys call us “America” when you think we’re not listening. But here’s the thing I’m quoting:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. –That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.
I had some further thought about this, but I was interrupted by a person from Porlock and it escapes me now.
7. Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of the person and the right not to be deprived thereof except in accordance with the principles of fundamental justice
-Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms (1982). You see, a difference in a couple of words just about says it all. Charlie, fault of those timid central Canadians.
I’m really not trying to get into a Canadian thing, if only because I’ve never had one of those conversations last for more than about ten minutes before turning into a discussion of health insurance, and I’m just not up to it right now.
In any case, I think you guys are just still mad you lost the French and Indian War and had to keep Quebec.
In any case, though, I wasn’t disagreeing with you, just expanding on what I was saying.
Charlie, I’m with you. Just making fun of the central Canadian lawyers and politicos who once must have been sitting around the table saying, well I like the life and liberty part, but we can’t have none of their “pursuit of happiness”, too disorderly that, next thing you know fellows will be claiming the right to invite you to a love triangle. Nope, let’s go with “security of the person”: in Canada, no one should have too much fun, but the state shouldn’t be able to do anything to you either. Free to putter.
I keep finding myself regretably late to discussions these days. Yet another good one – thanks all.
For those interested in how diversity molds itself into culture and produces an inescapable legacy, I feel I must, strongly, recommend The Island at the Center of the World: The Epic Story of Dutch Manhattan, the Forgotten Colony that Shaped America by Russel Shorto. Picked it up in an airport while desperate for some reading material. Most fortuitous!
John Derbyshire, a much better writer than he appears on The Corner, wrote this article which might well be titled “On the Mutability of Culture”. Well worth the time for those following this thread.
Thanks for the rec, Knuck. I put it on my wish list (or, as my husband calls it, the one-stop Christmas shopping list). Have you ever been to the Museum of the City of New York? Fascinating place. Next time I’m in town, I’d like to see the Lower Eastside Tenement Museum which looks equally fascinating. New York, there’s no place like it–without a doubt the most colorful patch on our American quilt.
Flenser, speaking of Derbyshire, would you agree with this “racialist” take on constitutions? If so, would it be possible to have a polite discussion to flesh out the pros and cons?
http://www.amnation.com/vfr/archives/003968.html
dan cliff
In response to your 07:10, I don’t think that is a likely form for the future mono-cultural world to take.
Here is de Tocqueville on this topic;
I think, then, that the species of oppression by which democratic nations are menaced is unlike anything that ever before existed in the world; our contemporaries will find no prototype of it in their memories. I seek in vain for an expression that will accurately convey the whole of the idea I have formed of it; the old words despotism and tyranny are inappropriate: the thing itself is new, and since I cannot name, I must attempt to define it.
I seek to trace the novel features under which despotism may appear in the world. The first thing that strikes the observation is an innumerable multitude of men, all equal and alike, incessantly endeavoring to procure the petty and paltry pleasures with which they glut their lives. Each of them, living apart, is as a stranger to the fate of all the rest; his children and his private friends constitute to him the whole of mankind. As for the rest of his fellow citizens, he is close to them, but he does not see them; he touches them, but he does not feel them; he exists only in himself and for himself alone; and if his kindred still remain to him, he may be said at any rate to have lost his country.
Above this race of men stands an immense and tutelary power, which takes upon itself alone to secure their gratifications and to watch over their fate. That power is absolute, minute, regular, provident, and mild. It would be like the authority of a parent if, like that authority, its object was to prepare men for manhood; but it seeks, on the contrary, to keep them in perpetual childhood: it is well content that the people should rejoice, provided they think of nothing but rejoicing. For their happiness such a government willingly labors, but it chooses to be the sole agent and the only arbiter of that happiness; it provides for their security, foresees and supplies their necessities, facilitates their pleasures, manages their principal concerns, directs their industry, regulates the descent of property, and subdivides their inheritances: what remains, but to spare them all the care of thinking and all the trouble of living?
And an equally famous passage by Nietzsche;
The earth has become small, and on it hops the last man, who makes everything small. His race is as ineradicable as the flea; the last man lives longest.
‘We have invented happiness, ‘say the last men, and they blink. They have left the regions where it was hard to live, for one needs warmth. One still loves one’s neighbor and rubs against him, for one needs warmth…One still works, for work is a form of entertainment. But one is careful lest the entertainment be too harrowing. One no longer becomes poor or rich: both require too much exertion. Who still wants to rule? Who obey? Both require too much exertion.
No shepherd and one herd! Everybody wants the same, everybody is the same: whoever feels different goes voluntarily into a madhouse. ‘Formerly, all the world was mad,’ say the most refined, and they blink…One has one’s little pleasure for the day and one’s little pleasure for the night: but one has a regard for health.
‘We have invented happiness’, say the last men, and they blink.”
truepeers
I find it impossible to imagine that any discussion we might have could be anything other than polite. And the topic you bring up is a timely one.
But I’m already feeling guilty about hijacking Rogers travel post onto an openended discussion of culture. There are a couple of things from upthread, from you and others, which I want to respond to, but I’d rather not broaden the scope of this any further. (Is that even possible?)
We must certainly have that discussion one of these days, either here or at my own blog, if I ever get off my lazy butt and set one up.
Truepeers – Flenser
I opened a post at Reality Check for you. Use as you see fit.
Flenser,
I am aware of those two passages. Read them a long time ago. They were and still are well above my pay grade, as the headache I know have clearly proves.
I take great exception to the “voluntarily” in the “whoever feels different goes voluntarily into a madhouse.” And so did N, did he not? And that really becomes the crux of at least one problem, which leads me to a second point: those two passages occur in a context which, upon further reading, might not support 1) your basic premise of this mono-cultural world coming into being, for a warning, rhetorical and otherwise, is a far cry from a prediction, let alone the representation of something being inevitable and 2) for arguments sake let us imagine it is possible: coercion is necessary to get to the point of a such a tyranny–i.e. a single global culture, as you have granted, but you still haven’t shown me how this coercion would be ended and peace would reign. I say it can’t given human nature. “Last men” are never the only men and women.
Flenser, I’ll let you have the last word unless you would rather not take it and, as usual, I’ve enjoyed reading your posts.
Rick, I’ll migrate over there to Reality Check and make a brief comment if anyone wants to follow (reading between the lines I think Flenser’s overworked). Here at Roger’s, the debate is usually targeted on critiques of the the tired old left and its latest gnostic heresy. Fine, each place has its own tone and interests. Yet perhaps some would like to work out some of the differences among conservatives, hopefully without the kinds of rhetorical wars and investments in labels that those commercially and professionally involved in selling rhetoric are prone to. Shall we…
My post/comment at Reality Check is now up.
http://newrealitycheck.blogspot.com/
charlie
What is American culture, if not the culture of all of us who live in the place defined by “life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness”?
The concepts of life, liberty and pursuit of happiness are not exclusivly American. I suspect that the Japanese would say they believe in these things also, as would the English, the Germans, and people from many nations. To be sure, some of them would have different ideas about what the pursuit of happiness entails.
In other words, I think such a definition of American culture leads to defining the world as American, and so to a “globalization of culture”. A more narrowly defined definition would be better for America and the world, IMO. But I don’t have one to offer. Yet.
Dan Cliff
Surely Nietzsche and de Tocqueville are considered significant precisely because they saw the future as it was in the process of becoming? The life of the modern Westerner spent in “pursuit of happiness”, usually via consumer goods, looks very much like Tocqueville’s multitude “incessantly endeavoring to procure the petty and paltry pleasures with which they glut their lives.”
I’m not claiming that anything is inevitable, just observing the trends. The trends in the last half century have been to bring the world closer together, due to cheap travel and almost instantanous communications from any point on the globe. Plainly, there exist significant differences even within America, as shown by the split between the “conservatives” and the “liberals”. I’m not suggesting we are on the cusp of the Brave New World. But there are forces pushing in that direction and there is no point in saying otherwise.
truepeers
You are probably familiar with the California sushi roll, Chinese rap music, Japanese baseball, red-haired Koreans, Oregon yurts, etc. etc. Are these signs of homogeneity? I don’t think so, even as they are obviouly signs of a world more tightly knit together.
I think these are signs of increasing homogeneity, yes. I don’t see how they can be seen differently. When goods, people, and ideas are able to flow quickly and cheaply around the world, the world will be a far more homogeneous place, by a kind of Brownian motion. There is resistance to all this, from “the Left” as much as from “the Right”. Maybe more so.
I’m heading over to Rick’s link. But a small aside, and wine speaking here… what the hell are you guys talking about. There will never be, on a global scale, Mono culture. If it should occur, we have failed, at least so far as our genetic dispositions. No thinking man/woman wishes to be like another, we are six billion individuals. Change and adversity are our key heritable points. Emphasis on adversity. Struggle is our strength. Never shall it end. After all, we only have four billion years (or less) to get off this planet and out to the stars, or it is truly all over.
OTOH, are there really only two ways to effect change in the world: Force or Example. Perhaps a combination of the two? Note to self, we work for our descendants, and not ourselves.
Dan:
Diligence and humility? I did that for more than 10 years. While I wouldn’t trade my time in Japan for anything, when it became obvious that my children would never really be accepted, in the sense that they would be treated just like everyone else, I came back home. It was difficult and traumatic, and in a lot of ways I really didn’t want to leave, but in retrospect it was for the best. I wouldn’t at all mind retiring to Japan, but my wife (who is Japanese) doesn’t want to do it. She doesn’t want to have to constantly explain me to everyone.
Westerners aren’t the only people who pursue happiness through consumerism. De Toqueville might as well have been talking about Japan. The Japanese are just as conformist, materialistic, and status-conscious as everyone else.
Ephram,
10 years? I rest my case.
Wanting to be treated just like everyone else? I don’t quite get it. Were fundamental rights withheld from them? Were your kids locked up? Denied healthcare? Beaten by civil servants? Or are you going to tell me a story about how some kids made fun of them because….. Cry me a river. I grew up outside of Japan and in elementary school once five kids beat me up during recess because (got the violin ready)… And a hundred more stories besides…. Wives are always having to explain their husbands to others. Or not. Free not to as well. Or did they torture here until she ‘fessed up? In-laws hated you? Now that never happens between Japanese couples does it. Oh wait, that’s par for the course. When you married your wife did you two really commit to living in Japan, or was going to whereever always on the table? Or did she in fact always have a dream of leaving? Is her English better than your Japanese (a tell-tale sign)? I never said being an immigrant here is easy. I said, “Opportunities abound with a little diligence and humility. And committment not to be a long term visitor but to bury your bones here.” Forgive the conjecture, but you sound like a typical Westerner (male) who never got beyond teaching English and whose Japanese never progressed to a level (and I’m not talking about getting a level one on the proficiency test, which would be a very modest beginning in this regard) where the wife didn’t need to take care of filling out all the forms and making all the rounds for the family. Nothing wrong with that of course, but hardly what I meant by “diligence” and all the rest. I never implied a rose garden. Your knowledge of minutiae about Japan is impressive, your need to show it off obvious, and I meet your type often. Drive me up the proverbial wall. And they can never, to my amazement given the high regard they hold their “learning”, pick up say Tanazaki’s Shunkinsho, find a seat in the park and read it in one sitting without recourse to dictionaries and all the rest. And they don’t read Japanese newspapers in Japanese over the internet to get their info on current affairs here but the one’s in English? And at the restaurants I always have to explain the reading of some item on the menu to them. And wipe their chins…
As for the other stuff, since the thread has gotten off topic by the spectacle of not answering questions directly but adding new and meaningless generalities, there is no real point in going on. Cheers.
Yamaarashi
Sorry, that would be Ephraim. My bad.
Wow! Lay off the sake before posting, Dan! As a casual observer, it seems to me that Ephraim’s not the one showing off. Your assumptions about Ephraim say more about you than him, I think. Who appointed you sole arbiter of what is or is not acceptable behavior, lifestyle, reading material, and dining etiquette for foreigners living in Japan?
How old are you? Are you married with children? If not, why are you passing such harsh judgment on the personal choices and experiences of others? BTW, the results of extensive research on inter-racial children in Japan is readily available in both Japanese and English – perhaps you ought to find a seat in a park and educate yourself before damning others for their personal decisions.
For someone who supposedly knows everything there is to know about the right way for a foreigner to live in Japan, your posts indicate a surprising ignorance of some pretty basic Japanese history (see: Heian & Edo attitudes about immigration). I doubt I will ever know as much as you do about living in Japan.That is probably a good thing because I would hate to end up sounding like a bitter, self-righteous, prig.
Perhap you ought to practice what you were preaching at the beginning of this thread, and try practicing a little bit of humility.
In other words, I think such a definition of American culture leads to defining the world as American, and so to a “globalization of culture”. A more narrowly defined definition would be better for America and the world, IMO. But I don’t have one to offer. Yet.
Good luck.
R.W.
Ohhh. Casual observer indeed. The showing off was a reference to other posts. Read them and decide. The heart of my post went to ability in the language. Ephraim said he was diligent for ten years, I have my doubts. I get an earful often, as foreigners complain to me, also a foreigner, about how closed and unjust Japan is. How one can’t participate in the society. Blah, blah, blah. Seldom can they read or speak the language above an elementary school level. What do they expect a parade. Keys to the city? I also doubt very much if Ephraim (and his wife) ever committed to living in Japan until their death. Obviously they didn’t as they aren’t here. To each his own, but save me the I was banished from the island against my will schtick. What you put in over here and your attitude makes all the difference in the world. My family all immigrated to America at varioius times. Worked their butts off. Made a go of it. I, the son of immigrants, did the same when I moved here. I’ve had it easy, comparably. Most of the people that give me the after ten years I had no choice but to banish myself from Japan for the sake of my children and wife and all the rest would not compare favorable to immigrants to America or any other country for that matter and are blaming others for their failings. Period. I do remember writing above, “forgive the conjecture.” I meant it, and if none of it applies to Ephraim, though it does apply to hundreds I’ve met, then let him tell me. Am I old? Getting there. Married? Yes. Kids? Yes. Could I care less about the social scientists extensive research on inter-racial children in Japan? Yes. Would I love to have Ephraim and his family as neighbors in the future? Yes, but I’d lay into him everytime when he tried to play that I’m such a victim card. “Japan is so racist, so unfair.” Finally, I’m very humble about where I stand with regards to how much I don’t know about Japan and everything else, but yes I’m much the prig when it comes to the crap Ephraim tried to pull. But I applaud you for sticking up for him, R.W.. If the shoes were on the other foot I’d have probably done the same. Cheers,
Yamaarashi (final post on Roger’s) Thanks for the memories.
“other posts”= “other posts onother threads”, for those keeping score.
“other posts”= “other posts on other threads”, for those keeping score. (last, last, final post)
Double clicked too. Kinda. Last, last, last final, post.
While Dan obviously has seen Japan as the varied and wonderous place it can be, he’s one of those gaijin I avoid like the plague. No one is worthy of respect if they don’t measure up to his standards of Japanese mastery. Every move made without his guidance is the clumsy bumbling of a child. He lives with a sneer on his face for the other gaijin around him. How dare they live in HIS Japan!
One’s job is not safe from his lofty gaze.
He’s obviously contemptuous of English teachers. I’ve got an MA in Linguistics and happen to be damn good at what I do, but to him I “never got past teaching English” (although my students almost always pass the TOEFL with flying colors). I’m not as skilled a reader of Japanese as he, so he’d have to “wipe my chin” while reading a menu to me. And I’m “male”, apparently another strike against me.
Dan has obviously never been black in Japan, or he’d see that people don’t have to be physically torturing you to make you feel unwelcome and your children miserable. And if his wife had ever been frozen out of social circles because of her husband, he’d be singing a different tune.
It’s an affront to Dan’s “I am a rock, I am an island” attitude that some people notice some of the darker sides of Japan, like the OL at my school with an MA in Sociology who’s lucky to be able to work making tea, or the burakumin kids who get publicly singled out in school for special classes on “fitting in”. Or…well, since all of these things are just the whinings of someone whose Japanese isn’t perfect, why bother?
To paraphrase:
His knowledge of minutiae about Japan is impressive, his need to show it off obvious, and I meet his type often. They spend their time trying to make other gaijin feel inferior and himself the elite. Drive me up the proverbial wall.
Skyguy, Yama has been more than gentle with my own poor Japanese.
one suggestion: if you keep finding that people are treating you badly, in Japan or out, you might want to think about who the common player is in all those interactions.
>
Glad to hear it, as his slam at Ephraim didn’t indicate much respect for anyone of lesser ability.
He seemed to imply that no one should expect to be treated well unless they intend to die in Japan. When in the US, did he ask foreigners where their bones would be buried before deciding to treat them well? I doubt it.
I’m not complaining about my experiences in Japan. I’ve been treated quite well by the vast majority of the Japanese I’ve met, otherwise I wouldn’t still be here. But I will defend people who say they’ve been treated badly, because over the past 20 years I’ve seen it, as Dan apparently has not.
Some ethnic groups (other Asians, Africans, Middle Easterners) are treated horribly (I mean not getting medical care, not being allowed into stores, having passports seized by emmployers, harrassedby police) with little recourse and virtually no sympathy from Japanese. I’ve seen foreign kids in a local elementary school treated like trash by everyone around them and their families shunned. But to Dan, they’re all just whiners who didn’t have it as bad as he (one of the 4 Yorkshireman perhaps?)
To hear him dismiss wholesale someone else’s experiences with snide generalizations just reminded me of too many…well, bitter self-righteous prigs I’ve met here. My Japanese friends find them as insufferable as I do, as they boast about their humility and take every opportunity to poke their knowledge into every conversation.
I truly hope Dan was just cranky when he posted that, as he’s obviously quite knowledgable and well-spoken.
And yes, the snip at English teachers particularly steamed my clams.
Writing too quickly, I didn’t proof that post too well, and left off the quote I meant to start with:
Yama has been more than gentle with my own poor Japanese
skyguy,
I said it would be my last post. But I was silly enough to come back and read the inevitable criticism. This doesn’t mean that I’m not thrilled there was criticism, in fact I am as I think I alluded to at the bottom of my reply to R.W.. I can understand how one could read my post and jump to some of the conclusions you’ve drawn. On the other hand, though not lately, I have been a regular poster here, so I did expect, perhaps wrongly, that my statement would be read in a context. But anyway. Silly expectation really. (Though my sincere thanks to Yukio-san for having my back.) And my post wasn’t kind to Ephraim to say the least, I do admit that, but I stand by what I said in the context of my first post which Ephraim was replying to. Not how you and R.W. portray what I said, but what I said. And what I said thereafter, still remembering the context. Though of course inelegantly. And not wisely since I’m sitting here typing this instead of catching my train that I already missed twice this morning doing other things around the house. Anyway, as I thought I was trying to make clear to RW when I said I’d love to have Ephraim as a neighbor, which I sincerely meant, I certainly don’t laud anything over anyone. Or try not to. In fact I get along famously with a lot of English teachers. Most not nearly as educated nor successful as you are. And most of them can’t speak a lick and don’t intend on learning. And most of them are guys, if you think that is who I have it out for. Some of them will probably live here as long as me. Which is to say until their end. Good for them. And if they go back to their place of origins, most won’t put it in a context which Ephraim did. I meet a lot of graduate students over here with family in tow, from Africa and Asia and many other places. I also spend my fair share of time in what we could broadly call the floating world where I am fortunate enough to meet all sorts of foreigners. Helped a few of them get a good lawyer and made sure what they were saying was being translated competently. Just to let you know. But back to an earlier point, needless to say I believe there is a place for long term residents of Japan who never pick up a lick of Japanese. And even if I didn’t believe that I would never express such views. Nor did I. But I could be mistaken. Although, if the opportunity arose, I would try and suggest the need for learning Japanese and the proper way of going about it. I almost wrote “the proper way” but heaven forbid I be called an elitist. You’ve had success teaching a foreign language, me too. But even if such teachable moments don’t come, in fact I’ve been known to help out a good many people when they run into the inevitable misunderstandings that come along when one doesn’t know Japanese. It is after all Japan. If you think I turn a blind eye to injustice that goes on around me in Japan or elsewhere, spending a lot of time in China these days in fact, then you just don’t know me.
But at heart I’m conservative. Which means I don’t believe there is a solution, in any society, to all the contradictions and problems therein. Which does not mean I don’t fight like hell. And all in all Japan is doing pretty well in my book. And immigrants like Ephraim and me don’t have it very bad. In the end I shouldn’t have called out Ephraim on the little blame game I think he was playing since we were really talking about apples and oranges. And I shouldn’t be explaining myself here to you. Lesson learned. Also for the record, since I seem to be painting myself in heroic colors, I drink too much, cuss too much, am too much in debt, should spend more time with my family, can’t sit seza like I used to, my brush technique sucks these days, my Chinese is pitiful, I’m twenty-seven pounds overweight, have a two pack a day habit, hair is growing out of all sorts of places, and the list goes on. Cheers.
Well, this worked out even better than I thought.
I thought that I had perhaps stumbled across someone who had drunk liberally of the Ware-ware Nipponjin Ron (“We Japanese-ism”) Koolaid, but I had no idea how right I was. The lecture about how one must read Tanizaki in the original if one really wants to understand Japan (repeated not once, but twice), along with the “Zen of Sweeping” lecture, set my BS detector twitching, but the “keep your shoulder to the wheel and your nose clean, son, and you’ll do fine here” was the clincher. So I threw out some bait to see what would happen. I admit I was deliberately provactive. However, the nerve was even more sensitive than I had anticipated.
Since my supposed lack of language skills, among other things, deprives me of the right to an opinion, I guess I should trot out my CV.
I have worked for about 25 years as a Japanese-English translator/interpreter/ technical writer in the semiconductor industry for both Japanese and American companies. My wife’s English is, unfortunately, not that good, and we have, since the beginning of our relationship of more than 30 years, conversed almost exclusively in Japanese. I can read Japanese newspapers and I do not require subtitles when I watch movies or TV (unless people are screaming at each other in Osaka dialect).
While I have not read Tanizaki in the original, and make no claims to being a Japanese literature maven like Mr. Cliff so graciously informed us that he is, I am having some fun reading Wagahai Wa Neko De Aru (“I Am A Cat”) by Natsume Soseki, although I freely admit that I require a dictionary every now and again. Finally, I can write, although my handwriting leaves a great deal to be desired.
I have been practicing kyudo, traditional Japanese archery (among other things) for more than 30 years and I am a licensed instructor, registered with the All Nippon Kyudo Federation. At seminars where foreigners are involved, I am always one of the designated interpreters, and I have translated some of their instructional manuals. I also translated a scholarly paper on kyudo by Professor Yamada Shoji of Nanzan University which was published in the Japanese Journal of Religious Studies, and, should the translation grant be approved, I will be translating a book by Professor Yamada which expands on his original paper. I am now in the midst of reading Momiji Kasanae, Hanare no Jiki, Kyugu no Mikata to Atsukaikata (“The Layered Maple Leaf Grip, The Time For the Release, and How To Evaluate and Treat Archery Equipment”, by the late kyudo Master Urakami Sakae, my teacher’s teacher. (In the original, of course, since Amazon appears to be plumb out.) Not Tanizaki, perhaps, but good enough for me.
Now that the horn-blowing is out of the way, we can proceed to the matter at hand.
In spite of the fact that my wife would occasionally get dirty looks on the street when we were together, that I was turned down for a job because I was a foreigner (this was over the phone when, after an extensive conversation the woman on the other end of the line asked me if I was a foreigner and abruptly hung up when I answered in the affirmative) and had people refuse to rent apartments to me, I was, in general, treated quite well, at least by the people whom I knew personally. I owe a great debt to many people in Japan and I still have a great many friends there with whom I keep in regular contact and whom I visit whenever I get the chance. I would say that everything considered, my time in Japan was quite positive. Basically, what Skyguy said.
So, what exactly did I say that offended Mr. Cliff so much? I said that I left Japan because my children were not treated like everyone else. Did I say that they were mistreated or beaten? No (although this did happen to friends of theirs who had also committed the sin of being of mixed race). Did I say that they had experienced some of the other outlandish things Mr. Cliff was raving about? No. I simply said that they were not treated like everyone else.
Did I say that I was driven out of Japan by racism? No. Did I say that my in-laws hated me? No (as a matter of fact we got on quite well).
As I said, I simply wanted my children to grow up somewhere where they would not be treated as outsiders, however genteel and benign the expression of this exclusion might be. I got on quite well in Japan after I realized that no matter how much I tried to fit in I would not be able to do it completely and utterly as I had so naivly thought in the beginning, and all things considered, I did well enough in my niche as the resident gaijin-who-knows-the-language-and-all-that- weird-cultural-stuff. As Mr. Cliff says, one can do quite well if one is diligent and humble. His one-man agency for Guides and Nannies for Clueless Foreign Yahoos seems to be going great guns at any rate.
Oh, right, before we go any further, I must insist that Mr. Cliff take back his insulting remarks insinuating that my wife was simply hunting for an easy Green Card. Regardless of what opinion he may have formed of me I deeply resent the implications of his remarks. (Come to think of it, it is exactly what a Japanese who resents “his” women mixing with foreigners might say.)
But, I digress. I said I wanted my children to be treated like normal, everyday people and to grow up into people who could live and work either in Japan or the US. If Ithe choice had been between Japan and (insert boondock burg peopled with knuckle-dragging, mouth-breathing racists of choice here) I certainly would have stayed in Japan. But I had a choice between Japan and the San Francisco Bay Area, where you cannot swing a dead cat without hitting someone named Ichiro Johnson or Barbara Yamamoto. It was a big gamble, but as it turned out, the decision was a good one. I am not denying that racism exists in the US. It does. But I gambled that it would be less prevalent here in the Bay Area than it was in Japan 20 years ago. I was right. As a result, my boys are still completely fluent in Japanese and have indeed spent time working in Japan. Whether they will decide to live therre again in the future is anyone;s guess, but they are as equipped as anyone to do it.
Japan is a place like any other place. As silly as it may sound, it has its good points and bad points just as any place does. Different people react to it differently and make different decisions about it. That is their prerogative, and i do not begrudge it them.
However, It is typical of those foreigners who have drunk the Koolaid to set themselves up as guardians protecting “their” Japan from foreign riff-raff who clutter up the place and don’t measure up to their standard. Fine, be my guest. But I don’t think Japan needs your help.
(Oh yeah, were you actually “keeping score” of my remarks on the other threads? Get a grip, man.)
Dan,
Thanks for the reply, and I hope you didn’t miss your train.
One can seldom get the measure of a person by writings alone, and online communications are often misinterpreted. Stylistic differences can lead to confusion.
At heart, I think we agree on the basics, with some differences of emphasis, and I will leave the matter here.
And watch for your future posts, almost all of which I find interesting.
Cheers
Ephraim,
Part of your post made me truly sad. Undoubtedly, if you had chosen to stay, you and your children would have had an immeasurable impact for the good on the community you called home here. As couples such as yourselves undoubtedly do when they live in a place for a long time. Especially when the place is far from the hustle and bustle centers of busyness (business). Foreigners, especially Westerners, seldom get to your level. (Though you and I both know that many overrate their skills, no matter all the titles, or especially because of all the titles–think Juan Cole, and the most famous of professors of things Japanese often can’t do the most basic of things.) Your children would never have fitted in, mine too, but I take that as blessing. If they were fitting in someplace, say like in San Francisco, I certainly would be teaching them how to stop doing that, but maybe I’m from the Boy called Sue school of parenting and maybe fitting in is way down on my list of things to aim towards. Live towards. Teach towards. Anyway, I guess San Francisco’s gain was our lose….. As for my sweeping “lecture”, I was merely having fun, lightheartedly as those who have read my posts in the past no doubt recognized, and I confess to knowing nothing about the species of fish Roger is eating (another thread) nor about the Inuyama Castle (11:05 p.m. post, this thread) and all the rest. As for all the other stuff. You can have the last word.
Skyguy, thanks for the kind words. I fully agree with your conclusion. But no more posting for me here. Felt like I’ve finally learned my lesson. Would’ve preferred punning with Buddy and Knucklehead but it wasn’t to be. Spend my energy elsewhere.
dan clifff= Yamaarashi
(for those who knew me under that name) (though Dan Cliff is also not my name, but that is another story as well, as I think I explained above) (–for those keeping score)
“The lecture about how one must read Tanizaki in the original if one really wants to understand Japan (repeated not once, but twice)…” Ephraim taking me on.
The point was that you need to read Tanizaki, or Soseki, in the original to truly understand Tanizaki or Soseki. I didn’t say anything about Japan. I could care less about Japan, in many ways. But I do care much about Tanizaki or Soseki. Or rather, their books. Nor did I imply reading a translation was a waste of time. Indeed, I said it no doubt was beneficial. But we should be careful saying things like “I have read Tanizaki,” when all we have read is a translation of Tanizaki or Soseki or any other masterpiece. I mean it can’t be helped I guess. Translations have to do sometimes. I must say I have said, “Yes, I’ve read War and Peace.” But in the back of my mind, was a voice saying ‘but only in the translation.” It’s a very healthy voice. When you get through with Wagahai, I can’t help but think the English translation will no longer do it for you. Just the first sentence and the substition of I for Wagahai demands an explanatory note running pages and pages. The second time when referencing that book, Tanizaki’s Shunkinsho, I was making a point about a a certain type of Japanophile, which I am happy to discover you aren’t, who can tell me about every variety of fish and castle and historical period and on and on, and knows everything about Japan, but can’t read a book in Japanese. I can’t help but think time would have been better spent learning the language more and minutiae less. The book I was referring to is, as you no doubt know, very short. Thus I used it as an example of what one could read in one sitting in a park. If you read at the level of high schooler. Anyway, I’m glad your little plot has worked out so well. I must say I’ve been completely overwhelmed and exposed. And to make you happier I came back for one more round. The trick is with racist, culture-mongering assholes like me is to just let us run on. I’m happy to oblige. I’ve appended my resolution. I’ll continue posting, but only on this thread. (Just kidding, this should really be the last. I only did this because I was told I couldn’t let that representation of me on translations stand. And the guy who is twisting my arm said he’d buy me some drinks if I posted a brief refutation.)
The thread in question, me on August 19th:
Yes, smug and not well put I admit. But tongue was in cheek. As I would hope some, if not all, would recognize. Now for Ephraim’s post on the same thread, three posts later, three days later:
How could I not have realized the web Ephraim was then spinning to expose me for the inbreed that I am. Such a Machiavel. Who would’ve thought.
“Well, this worked out even better than I thought.
I thought that I had perhaps stumbled across someone who had drunk liberally of the Ware-ware Nipponjin Ron (“We Japanese-ism”) Koolaid, but I had no idea how right I was. The lecture about how one must read Tanizaki in the original if one really wants to understand Japan (repeated not once, but twice), along with the “Zen of Sweeping” lecture, set my BS detector twitching, but the “keep your shoulder to the wheel and your nose clean, son, and you’ll do fine here” was the clincher. So I threw out some bait to see what would happen. I admit I was deliberately provactive. However, the nerve was even more sensitive than I had anticipated.”–Ephraim on hs stalking of Yamaarashi
Ephraim,
You are such a God in my book. Your BS detector twitching since days ago. Ever since those terrible things Yama said as outlined in the above two posts. (Things of course you misrepresented, but hey, you’re a God, what’s a little slice and burn.) And you hide your disguist with Yama so well when you first came across his unforgiveable post. Not even a thunderbolt or a grumble. I mean I thought you might have confronted him right then and there on that thread. But that would have been the natural thing to do and you are super-natural. Like a God. You of infinite patience could wait. Throwing out some bait as you say. Being provocative as you say. Poor Yama, he didn’t know what hit him. I mean who knew your power as you disguised it so well with sentences (taken from the last post) containing such phrases like “exquisitely delicious delicacy”. I mean only a God playing with us mortals could possible write something like that phrase. But I must stop. I know my place Ephraim. No upsetting you. Above all else not upsetting you. For your swift and just retribution is sure to follow. Tenbatsutekimen and all that kind of stuff. All hail the Ephraim. ÈòøÊàø„Åã„ÄÇ
In case you haven’t figured it out Ephraim, I am Yama’s friend. Didn’t think it would be fair not to disclose this fact. I owe him a lot. He’s like a brother to me. Among other things he taught me to read and write in the grass hand style (after mastering the other styles of course), not to mention teaching me the way to go about studying Japanese in a comprehensive way. The pleasure I get reading writers like Soseki and Tanizaki and the classics is surely, next to my wife, the best part of my life. I owe that to him. He got me a few jobs too. As he has others. He’s also helped me and my family over a lot of difficult times. Times which are inevitable anywhere you live, but are more difficult when living abroad. You and the others who took him on don’t have a clue. Funny though, if I hadn’t meet Yama, I think I’d probably be in San Francisco doing something similar to what you are doing. Saying the exact same things. In the same way. Nothing against San Francisco or you Ephraim–I’m sure you are a great guy and we in the blogosphere all have had moments best forgotten. I know I have had my fair share–but I’m glad I met Yama. I’m not the only one. Ë¢ñË߶„ÇäÂêà„ÅÜ„ÇǧöÁîü„ÅÆÁ∏Å„ÄÇ
p.s. Sorry about my first post. It was rude and inappropriate. I hope that it is erased.