Although you would think many would tune into Dan Rather as a kind of “freak show,” the CBS Evening News numbers have tanked. Evidently the American people don’t like liars delivering the news.
Some spin doctor (see link) for CBS is ascribing this merely to the “perception” that Rather in anti-Bush. That’s what spin doctors are for, I suppose, to mouth idiocies and hope we will accept them. The situation is of course far worse. Most people already knew Rather was anti-Bush. What they didn’t know was that he was willing to push obvious forgeries for a week in behalf of that bias.
Continued shame on CBS. May they go bankrupt!
UPDATE: My sister, a bankruptcy lawyer in San Francisco, reminds me that it is callous to root for bankruptcy at CBS (really Viacom), because many will unfairly lose their jobs. She’s right, of course, although Rather (given those Nielsen numbers) has already put plenty of jobs at jeopardy at CBS News.
That’s weird.
I’ve watched more CBS news in the past week than in the rest of the past year.
I’m glad the rest of the country has joined me in boycotting CBS News. It’s been so long since I watched I was surprised at how much Rather has aged since I last saw him!
These numbers spell absolute disaster for CBS’s advertising revenue. So will somebody please explain to me why they are continuing to stick with their ridiculous “fake but accurate” documents story when it is literally killing them.
It just isn’t logical. But then nothing has been logical about this story from the get-go.
I just spotted a report on a Bloomberg screen that the AP is reporting a break – some administration official talking – in the GJ investigation in the Wilson Plame fiasco.
CBS will play this to the hilt – if only to get the focus off their own scandal.
Can any one add to this sketchy report ?
“Some spin doctor (see link) for CBS is ascribing this merely to the ‘perception’ that Rather in anti-Bush.”
Gee, I can’t imagine how they came to that perception.
Just speculating here, but I suspect that news of CBS’s ratings drop will spur the Michael Moore left to watch CBS in preference to the other networks in order to help prop up their ratings so CBS’s spine won’t weaken. This will fulfill Stanley Kurtz’s hypothesis, CBS will own the left wing, and Fox the right. The flight of ABC and NBC’s leftwing customers to CBS will encourage them to hit CBS hard, and will usher in a nasty catfight for the remaining leftish market share (since there’s zero chance either will make a swing to the center-right or even to the center).
Penwil,
Up until this morning I couldn’t believe CBS would pay this cost for such a petty story. That was before I had a clue who this Burkette character is and what the charges are that he is making.
The forged documents weren’t put into play to show that Bush “disobeyed a direct order” or “was taken off flight status” or “his family put pressure on the TANG to get him preferrential” treatement. That was just Act I.
The ultimate goal of Rather was to make Burkett’s case for him – to charge Bush with having sent his Evil Brownshirted Minions out to destroy unfavorable TANG records. The attack here was not really about Bush’s TANG record, it was supposed to show nefarious behavior while he was Governor of TX. They were trying to update Burkett’s tired old nonsense into something that might play to a national audience – convert the TANG stuff that nobody cares about into a much more recent and relevant scandal. The forged documents were intended to show proof that documents thought destroyed had been saved. Therein lies the desperate need to show, even if the docs are forged, that the “content is accurate” and the screeding idiocy of demanding that the President answer the charges! alleged in the forged documents.
RatherHosed really needed these documents (and still does). His claims of being non-biased and of not having a vendetta against The Bushies ring hollow. His Last Great Act was going to be Bringing Down a President. Oh well, Dan, the best laid plans of the RatherArrogant oft go kablooey.
Knucklehead, Yessir, sounds right.Amazing days.
penwil
The only thing that makes sense is that Rather sees himself as the rearguard defending a belief system that has been the foundation of the liberal ideology for several decades…truth is relative and comprises whatever you need at the moment to retain power or advance your agenda. I don’t think that Rather is an idiot or an inherently dishonest person and this concept is the only way that I can even begin to understand what must be going on at CBS. Relativism also explains Kerry’s consistent flip-flops on every major issue. If your agenda is to convince a certain group of people to vote for you then it’s OK to tell them what you think they want to hear.
It’s elitist as hell and overloads your synapses but seems to be the prevailing epistemology in the Democratic Party, the MSM and most of academia.
Hmmm.
What’s really amusing is that many of the people now watching Rather abd CBS News are Republicans and bloggers avidly following the CBS/Rather meltdown.
So the numbers are far far worse than currently represented.
It’s pretty apparent that CBS News has been wounded terribly. Whether that wound is mortal or not I don’t know. But if it is mortal, and CBS News becomes effectively dead with zero credibility, what could CBS/Viacom do to resurrect it? Sure they could limp on by pandering to the rabid-liberal crowd but how many are dedicated viewers? And what advertisers would be happy to pay enormous sums in order to advertise to this crowd?
Frankly they might have to clean house and then forcibly swing rightward in order to counteract the silliness of the past week. But to do that they couldn’t be tepid about it. I doubt even going to left-of-center would accomplish it.
Really they’d have to completely change the culture of CBS News.
You know, I could buy that Rather and CBS were had on the documents. Mistakes happen. You take the fall out and recover–hopefully you come out smarter and better for it. But because of their stance, they are making people wonder: what did Rather and CBS know and when did they know it?
While Rather and CBS do have to protect their sources and, it’s quite probable, believed their sources at the time, you can’t fall on the sword–there is too much evidence out there. And the secretary has an amazing memory. She did not type those documents. So, last night, CBS had a good opening to say they were had–still way too late, but somehow I think they could have recovered–but no, they stand by the documents!
What was at onetime a manageable mistake, has now turned into something quite big. CBS so believes the content-and they may very well be right–that they are unable to admit they were wrong about the documents being forged. You can’t defend documents that were forged. You can’t. You can’t. You can’t.
This will be a case study in journalism and PR classes in years to come. My worst fear, however, is that forged but accurate will be the new journalistic mantra. Sometimes, though you believe with all your heart that you have the break-out story, you can’t go to press or air until you’ve really, really done the job the people have entrusted you with–and it is a trust.
ABC and NBC and the rest of the MSM have been holding back out of respect for Rather and CBS. Now, however, I think they see that Rather and CBS’s stance is hurting them and journalism in general. I’m sure, behind the scenes, their letting CBS know that they are going to have to go after them on this–and they will, because now they have no choice.
I’m still going to watch Amazing Race, though!
I am not sure I buy the theory that CBS wants to become the Liberal News Network (by admission). I suspect the drop in market share will scare the bejebus out of the CBS executives, especially if the trend holds. CBS News should still want to retain its credibility in the news business, and if they continue to tow the line on this story, they will be discredited for years to come. They are going to be forced to sunset Rather at some point, if not outright admit they have been had.
Granted I could be very wrong about this, but I trust the market to sort this one out. We will see.
doublecola,
Interesting point on the rest of the MSM being forced to bare down on CBS. The whole thing is predicated on the assumption that they actually care about their credibility. I happen to believe that they do care. They may be willing to push the boundaries, but the RatherGate issue exceeds the limits.
Knucklehead
Sounds like the ‘plan’ to me too. Freaky as well. And the documents are absolutely necessary to even consider pushing forward on the story.
But none of them are going to be real.
Betsyspage says all the stuff is stored in Colorado…not in Texas…so the story simply cannot be true anyway.
If Bush could even find the documents to supposedly destroy them, the originals would still be in Colorado. Heh.
Those forgeries not only kill the story, they kill Rather, they kill CBS News, and they probably kill at least one not yet announced book. No wonder Barnes was furious at his daughter!
I love those Nielsen figures!!!!!!!!!!
DoubleCola!
The last time a Heated Discussion Opponent I had counted as a Hopeless Moonbat suddenly said something incredibly sane and balanced I promised I would never again refer to Al Gore as Algore. (You may guess from that how long it has been since this sort of thing has happened).
And I haven’t – which has been no small accomplishment given the past couple years of behavior from Al Gore.
What prize do you ask, Sir (or Madam)? (No, I will not open an artery and climb in a hottub.)
Syl,
Do you really think it possible that this may bring to a halt the Gravy Train of Rabid Bush Bashing? I’ve long wondered how much of this stuff was based upon real beliefs and how much was just working the circuit making money. For example, I can’t figure out if MM actually believes the crap he spouts or just realized the market for wild-eyed conspiracy movies and screeding speaking engagements is far larger and more lucrative than the market for real documentaries. As with most things I suspect some of both with each feeding on the other until the thing crashes and burns – sorta like what we’re seeing with Rather. The ego necessary to achieve Celebrity Journalist status begins to feed the Thirst for Vengeance and Great Acts and sooner or later that hairball starts chasing and chewing on its tail until it spins itself right over a cliff.
Bill R.,
You’ve got a great blog with some of the best analysis I’ve seen.
Wrt CBS becoming the “liberal” network, you’re right, the concept is ridiculous. Dan would have to broadcast in a Mao cap with a Red Star on it in front of a billboard of Stalin in order to get any further left. Aside from the fact that the “liberal” demographic is typically young, overeducated for its intelligence, fickle and lacking in means, it’s also too small to be worthwhile.
Viacom may very well use this opportunity to do a thorough housekeeping of a lot of editors and producers at the CBS news division. If I worked for Fox, given their success, I’d be polishing my resume. Redstone pulled Moonves up into Viacom so he can’t really protect the news division like he used to and Heyward is certainly not covering himself with glory. It is entirely conceivable that Redstone will order up a variant of “fair and balanced” in order to better battle his true nemesis – Murdoch.
This will finally be resolved via the standard Hayekian solution and the market will force CBS right – not left.
“The ego necessary to achieve Celebrity Journalist status begins to feed the Thirst for Vengeance and Great Acts and sooner or later that hairball starts chasing and chewing on its tail until it spins itself right over a cliff.” – knucklehead
That was a great sentence. Rather himself couldn’t have phrased it more colorfully.
I disagree about being forced further right. They won’t go left, either. They are instead going to abdicate.
WJXT, Channel 4 in Jacksonville was an award-winning CBS affiliate for years. They are owned by the Graham family of Washington Post / Newsweek fame. So, too, are stations in Orlando and Miami. A few years back WJXT, rather than meet the demands of CBS, decided to go out on their own as an independent. Many in Florida saw this as a test case by Post-Newsweek on the profitability of local stations. It looks to be working (I have no knowledge one way or the other).
I predict that CBS management sees Rather for the idiot that he is and has given him enought rope to hang himself. They see the handwriting on the wall and will use this to gut CBS News, eventually ending their Evening News as we now know it. They will give that block of lucrative time back to the local stations or work out some new arrangement of sharing that slot.
If true, how ironic for the Tiffany newtwork. Dan Rather will have, essentially, murdered them.
Knucklehead
—Do you really think it possible that this may bring to a halt the Gravy Train of Rabid Bush Bashing?—
I honestly don’t know.
I really don’t.
But I think some of the more energetic moonbats may simply stop due to exhaustion when it sinks in things aren’t going their way.
Barring unforseen events, perhaps after the election they can take a break and go back to some semblance of a life without spending every moment worried about Bush and the election.
Well, hmmm, that last paragraph might describe me as well.
Knucklehead,
No worries, I won’t ask anything of you. I’m sure we’ll have more heated discussions and you’ll once again think me a moonbat–you’ll be wrong, of course, but that’s okay.
This CBS documents deal is a big thing. We need to depend on the press. We need them to admit to their mistakes. No one is perfect. Everyone fouls up. You just have to admit it. At the very least, CBS could have said–at the time(it’s too late now, though)–”because of the recent revelations regarding the authenticity of the documents, CBS is launching an internal investigation.” Something like that. It would have made it much easier for them to come clean, too! And, still they could have reported the Bush National Guard story. Just because they may be right about the content, they can’t justify the documents. They can’t!
This whole thing depresses me. I might have to hide out in my moonbat cave for awhile.
DC
dcola:
We need to depend on the press
Depend is too trusting a word. We need a press that does its best to present information and give us a picture of what is going on. That press hasn’t been around on television since at least 1970. There is just too much temptation to make a story and offer a plotline, to make entertainment. You can even see some of this going on in the blog comments here; the urge to explain is almost overwhelming. Add in the urge to pontificate — and I am as guilty as anyone else — and you get the witches’ brew we are served every evening.
In Bradley’s and Eisenhower’s WWII memoirs they also mention here and there how the press was always getting things wrong. Mark Twain’s remark pushes back the origin of the phenomenon another hundred years. Hey, it’s tough to figure things out, even with the best intentions. The news should always be taken with a bag of sea salt nearby, even, or especially, when it tells you something you want to hear.
The most striking thing about all of this is how hesitant and circumspect the other networks are when it comes to this story. What happened to their usual frenetic scandal-of-the-week attitude? I suspect thereís a lot of pressure on the other networks to keep a lid on this, or at least to spin it in a CBS-friendly way. Donít forget that James ìintimidation worksî Carville is a mainstream Democratic Party strategist. And what kind of pressure is being put on CBS? I wonder if Dan Rather simply froze up and panicked like a deer caught in a carís headlights while the whole thing blew up in his face.
Itís not often you see poetic justice in real life.
“…it is callous to root for bankruptcy at CBS (really Viacom), because many will unfairly lose their jobs.”
For whom exactly am I feeling sorry?
The guy who called Hodges, read him the memo, got a quote like “Well… if that’s what he wrote, I guess that’s what he thought”, and then transmogrified that into validation?
The team who went authentication shopping?
The guys working for RatherStupid who have noticeably not decided to become Deep Font?
The president of C-BS news who dares to tell us that these memos are “accurate”?
Or some of the other C-BS employees, the ones who have never actually watched C-BS news, who have no idea what kind of a blatantly liberal-biased network they are working for?
No tears here.
Rick Ballard,
I think Dan-o could use Lenin’s casket as a news desk as well. Anything further right of where it is now would be an improvement.
This is OT, but I’m still pondering Kerry’s “skeevey quotient”.
For the longest time I didn’t hear boo about women in the polls. I mentioned this back when I noted that I’d heard women use the term skeevey to describe Kerry.
Then suddenly the story about support among women hit and was presented as widely known and long talked about that women were favoring Kerry by a wide margin.
Now the polls seem to be suggesting the support of women is shifting from Kerry to Bush in a fairly big way. Heck, I dunno. I don’t know why anyone – male, female, undecided, or in transition – would support Kerry.
I saw A Woman’s View at Powerline and wondered what the Ladies here thought about this suggestion that all this TANG-talk keeps showing Dubya in his uniform and sitting in his het fighter and that is playing well with the ladies.
I wonder if CBS goes bankrupt, will they blame it on George Bush? That seems to be the lesson of the Enron breakup, even though its executives were responsible for steering their ship onto the reef.
Roger, I understand your sister’s sentiments. However, I would suggest that CBS going bankrupt over this is entirely in their purview; just fire, immediately, Dan Rather and the producers and cancel 60 minutes (I&II).
If I were an employee with CBS, I’d be getting my fellow workers together and lobbying management to get rid of Rather & Co rather then letting them take the whole boat down.
One shouldn’t let criminals hold others’ compassion hostage.
The irony just keeps on rolling. I also saw the Powerline piece and my wife and teenage daughter agree with the sentiment. Everbody I know who is just learning (from this controversy) that W was a fighter pilot are particularly impressed.
The Kerry Team would probably do better if they said absolutely nothing and made no public appearances for the next two months.
How insane is it that people think a presidential candidate shouldn’t make public appearances! Too funny!
Also, the Powerline article is spot on.
Are there people who really don’t know that Bush flew jets in the ANG? Between the “Hot in a Flighsuit Mission Accomplished” event and all this RatherGate idiocy, how could they not know this? Oh, I forgot, the Bush campaigns have never bothered much to mention it, have they? And, well, it doesn’t play all that well with the Stupid Chimp mantra the Moonbats chant since, after all, everyone knows jet jockeys and other pilots are rarely stupid, so they weren’t mentioning it (everyone knows a monkey can fly a rocket into space but they can’t fly fighter jets).
Never mind, I guess I answered my own question. I suppose most folks who were old enough to be aware during the Vietnam era know of people who pulled this string or that string to avoid going to Vietnam but don’t know many who went and flew fighter jets as part of their scam. Remind me again why the Kerry campaign thought this anti-TANG missles would harm the president?
Knucklehead:
My hat is off to you, sir!
That is the wildest, most fearlessly mixed metaphor I have ever encountered.
I shall not soon forget it. (Not for want of trying; it is somehow deeply disturbing.)
Jamie Irons
I think Kerry is creepy and I am a woman.
I also think there are several problems with the press and the whole Tang thing. The press does not know a frigging thing about the military, the Guard or its point system, qualifications for flying jets, nothing. So when some guy with an axe to grind comes up with some docs, the people who should know better don’t. They are completely ignorant of the subject matter. The entire episode of Bush’s last months in the Guard have entered the realm of urban legend and so facts have ceased to matter. That is why they can drag out Barnes, the old crook and pretend he is a viable witness instead of a man who should be in the clinker.
Life has become a bad movie. Speaking of bad movies what is the the Harris and Pew polls? A shift is one thing this is something else.
Jamie,
Thanks! How’s the, ummm…, fishing? Did you come in from the wilderness for a cup of joe?
I love mixed metaphors. There was a nun I almost drove insane with mixed metaphors. She hated them with righteous passion and I loved them like a little kid loves puppies. The poor woman.
Agreed . . . Kerry is really icky. Looking at him just makes me go ewww. I wouldn’t leave my children with him.
Knucklehead
Yeah, needed some decent coffee and had to do some internet banking for my kids in college. (They’re almost done, but now the oldest is going for a PhD!)
Caught two nice rainbows, and lost a big brown (damn 7X leader tippett!)
;-(
Heading back to stream for some evening fishing soon.
Has anyone figured out why CBS is still stonewalling?
Jamie Irons
Actually, having CBS go bankrupt just gives Kerry more ammunition-”Pres Bush LOST all these jobs at CBS”, that’s the moonbat logic…But I want to know where Ashcroft, DOJ, FBI,Secret Service and whatever other Federal Agencies are supposed to investigate this are???? We have Forging Official Govt. Documents, Wirefraud (Faxing the documents from Abilene to SeeBS), and Interfering with the Federal election for US Prsident-we don’t need a congressional hearings, we need Feds (lots of ‘em), Warrants (Lots of these Too), and Immediate Action (like yesterday)….Retired AF and a Texan…
Everyone may be correct in thinking that Rather ignorantly overplayed his hand in his fight against the Bushes and for the Kerry/Democratic Left. But if this is the case it was monumentally stupid; particularly dragging it out and appearing even more bull-headed and inept. But I am cautious (and a nefarious thinker), and keep asking myself, why then is Rather so insistent that Bush and the White House respond instead of just folding his tent? Could he be trying a trap here? It is a huge gamble but is his ìineptitudeî the bait, waiting for some envisioned opportunity to release something else, perhaps more expertly forged? Is this why others in the MSM are hedging their bets? I donít trust Dan Rather and I donít trust the people at the DNC/Kerry campaign who have said, often enough, that they need to ìplay dirtyî now. They will ìplay dirtyî as they have in the past because they are fanatical and ìdrivenî. And I donít believe that they are as stupid as this whole affair, so far, would indicate. As several have said recently (OíReilly last night for one) about Kerryís numbers and the electionóìDonít get cocky!î They may be this stupid and ineptóI hope so; but I donít trust the opposition any further than I could throw them with two broken arms. Best to be careful, and, while not aiding in the ìmurder of someone who is committing suicideî be very wary of what might come next.
Terrye:
Speaking of bad movies what is the the Harris and Pew polls?
I have no idea. We will have to wait until the election to smoke out all the scammers. I note that the Pew poll is “for the people”, which in my experience is another way of saying bogus. Ranks right up there with the keyword “peace”, which usually means violent and totalitarian.
We have Forging Official Govt. Documents,
I keep seeing this meme in blog after blog.
I don’t think that a personal memo to file counts as an Official Government Document, even if the purported author is a government official writing about their official functions.
If the documents in question were the fitness reports themselves, that would be different.
chuck:
I read an article some time ago on the Pew foundation and their polls, etc. and the writer made mention that there was considerable irony involved. The original Pew was a conservative and the foundation was meant to carry out his vision and yet it has been used for another purpose altogether. I gather this has led to some debate within the family as to the viability of the trust. You know what they say about the road to hell…
But less than two weeks ago Pew had Bush 52 and Kerry 40 [I think] now they say they are dead even at 46. That is not logical. The undecideds seem to still be undecided but we are supposed to think Bush people switched? not likely. One of the polls is wrong. Harris puts Kerry one ahead. Meanwhile Bush is pulling ahead in the state polls. And even the Rasmussen tracking poll which did not give Bush a lead last week now has him 4 ahead. And then there are the recent polls that put him 10 points ahead.
I admit I don’t really understand how polls work, but how can they all claim a 3% margin of error and be so different?
Bryan:
Have you ever been in the military? I could be wrong, but I don’t think there is such a thing as private except for private first class in the military.
Bryan, even though it ‘only’ purports to be a CYA document, it is done under the heading of an official ANG document-with full signature element. Sure, it’s wrong format, a memo instead of a letter, wrong abbreviations and more Army lingo than Air Force (and OER is a document-OETR is a Records Repository, IE a Building);however, one purports to be an Official Order and uses a real AF Officers Name and Signature, and another appears to be an Indictment for disobeying that order-the Statutes on this deal with anyone fabricating a document doing just that-and it is a federal offense. That makes the wirefraud and interfering in an Election valid charges as well. I believe Powerline and Glenn Reynolds have posted the titles and sections of the U.S. code that covers this, and I think ace.mu.nu had a link as well. I’m only an ex GI, not a lawyer, but if I’d done this, I’d start watching for the FBI SWAT team anytime…..Retired AF and a Texan…
Please remember that USA Today also published these documents. They are investigating. We need to encourage them to investigate and publish in a timely manner.
Terrye, there is Private Basic(E1),Private (E2), and PFC (1st Class E3) as I remember. An E4 would be a Corporal or Spec. 4-corporals are only authorized in armored and Paratroopers. At least that’s how I remember it when I retired In ’87, but my memory could be a little foggy, and the Services have been making LOTS of changes since then-Soon none of my old AF uniforms will be anything like the current ones-my stripes are already different, and don’t match the current ones…
Terrye,
The margin of error is easy to arrive at, given the number in the sample and the assumption that the sample is random. I won’t go into the details, but have run the calculation to check it out. Mind, the error itself is statistical, and just means that the results have a certain chance, about 68%, of being within that range of accuracy.
The problem, I think, is that the sampling is not random, and folks try to account for factors like likely voters, etc., and this is open to abuse. The wording of the questions also needs to be checked. But I agree, a 52:40 to 46:46 shift is dramatic and quite suspicious.
I don’t know what to make of the polls, myself. I don’t trust them all that much, and really couldn’t without taking the time to check out the methodology. It’s one of those cases where I either trust the folks in charge, or I don’t, and I don’t.
We will see when Nov rolls ’round.
Yeah, okay, fair enough. I admit I only quickly scanned the pdf files, noticed immediately that they looked typeset and not typewritten (I’m a former computer prepress operator), and didn’t read the content all that carefully.
On rereading, three of the four pages (haven’t seen the USAT two) are clearly meant to be private, personal “CYA” notes (and I’d still like to see a military lawyer comment on whether those would be “private” or “official”); but you’re right, one is definitely an order.
And no, I was never military.
Bryan:
I am a government employee and anything that do, write, or program for official business is property of the United State Government. This included memos to record that include subject lines like CYA. These count as official government correspondence because they are record of action that the author has taken. Forging a memo to the record is the same as forging any other document. End of story.
ìKerry is really ickyî ñ excellent characterization, Lola.
I agree with other ladies here; but my reaction is stronger. The Brahminian Monotone works on me almost as well as a dose of Ipecac syrup would. Ugh.
Bryan:
Having seen your posted response I have some additional info for you that I have posted elsewhere. Not only is a CYA an official record, a memo written with CYA subject sets up the author for court martial for dereliction of duty if the IG looks into it. A CYA memo is written to explain why you violated standard practices and procedures. When you write a CYA memo you make the subject line descriptive of the problem and use sterile bureaucratic language to explain what you did. If your superior tells to willfully violate a regulation then you do it and then admit you did it you are looking for trouble. I was following orders doesn’t cut it even for normal business.
Jerry, Pietr:
End of story, then.
And please don’t think I’m trying to carry water for CBS here — I think the documents are forgeries and Rather should (figuratively) hang for this crap. I just think that we should make sure that the forgery is actually a crime instead of just a morally/ethically reprehensible act before we start making accusations, because otherwise we’d sound as unserious as those over there on the Dark Side.
<litella>Never mind…</litella>
Mike D.,
It is quite simple.
Rather had to keep the story alive because he was coordinating with the Democrats
BTW Rather came out with his story on Wed Evening. By the next day Edwards is giving speeches about it. See the url in my previous post.
M. Simon:
I agree. Rather brought this story out to coordinate with the “fortunate son” campaign of the dnc. they used his 60 min II interview with barnes in their ad. this is not a coincidence. it was a two-pronged attack, and there may be more planned. but with rather sinking in quicksand from FRAUD and FORGERY, never mind the “accurate” claim he’s bleeting to try and shore up his wretched failure, he has shown his alliance with the dnc. he is no journalist–just another flack. now someone find out if he was bought and paid for to play ball–and if his daughter robin had an integral part in the democratic activities in texas to get these memos on the air.
Fortunate Son my ass.
Honestly you would think that Kerry and Edwards were a couple of itinerant farm workers from the Grapes of Wrath taking on the big bad capitalists and their privileged offspring.
If John Kerry is not the walking talking epitome of the fortuante son then I don’t think there is such a person.
I’d like to see Dan explain “Fake but Accurate” to an IRS auditor.
Terrye (Catherine, Lola, Katherine et al): there are women; and there are WOMEN
Doublecola: it is good to see you back. I also happen to agree that what is most damaging about this whole episode is the debasement of the American media–we do need an independent and factually based media. To the extent that CBS and Rather have diminished trust in the media, they have damaged a fundamental check and balance of the the Republic. I can read opinion pieces in any media and take them for what they are worth–But when I read any thing other than the Op-Ed page, I sincerely hope they are the facts as reporters see them, recognizing that we all filter reality through our biases. The AP story of false booing was over the top; the CBS story is over the top. And both of these stories–and more importantly how the management responded to them has done irreperable damage to the MSM’s already diminishing credibility.
I look forward to debating serious issues irrespective of who wins the presidency: Social security, health care, gay marriage. I believe my colleagues on this board will surprise you with a diversity of opinion on social issues. I look forward to your contributions. (OK OK–I apologize for accusing you of repeating talking points in earlier threads)
Catherine ó Just as an FTI, the line from Butch Cassidy is , “Not that it matters, but most of what follows is true…”
M. Simon
I think you are correct. The problem is focusing on tactics and particular events. If you lose site of overall strategy, possible connections and the end game, either explicit or serendipitous, you risk having your ass handed to you on a platter.
I’m not much on conspiracy theories, but I’m inclined to agree with M. Simon here. Even as the story was beginning to melt down on the blogs, the DNC was sending out an email campaign promoting it.
I think the reason the left are so quick to complain about right wing conspiracies where none exist is that that’s the way they’d do things.
Oh, and it’s perfectly reasonable to wish for CBS to go bankrupt. That would free up all the resources currently invested there to do something useful.
Roger:
I hate to sound pessimistic but while much of the MSM is finally researching the Rathergate fraud they are also going after the “greater truth” angle too. They continue to repeat the DNC slime about Bush’s service being unfulfilled even though his point total is above the required amount and his Honourable Discharge is unassailable.They are also repeating the cannard that this is a battle of document experts and thus somehow inconclusive.My local high school football team might play the New England Patriots and technically this might be said to be a battle of football teams but the results would be known before the game would be started. They are somewhat adopting the CBS line that the story is legit untill it is 100% proven that the docs are forged and they are repeating the bogus charges in the forgeries and sometimes lies repeated often enough take purchase.Rather is toast but the story might still hurt President Bush
“My sister, a bankruptcy lawyer in San Francisco, reminds me that it is callous to root for bankruptcy at CBS (really Viacom), because many will unfairly lose their jobs.”
If CBS — and its owner, Viacom — *don’t* suffer any harm from this affair, and indeed learn that they can get away with deliberate fraud to influence a preseidential election, then the long-term result will be far worse than many people merely losing their jobs.
With all due respect to your sister, how does this sound?
“It is callous to root for the Confederacy to lose this war, because many fine young men will unfairly lose their lives.”
With all due respect to your sister, Roger, who sounds like a lovely lady, intercourse CBS and all the horses that they are riding. Mike G in San Diego is precisely right. It is called free market. Anybody around here cried for Enron? For Anderson? Didnít we think they get what they deserved for screwing the investors?
Also, I donít remember anybody shedding tears while engineers in the IT industry were loosing jobs right and left after the year 2000. In fact, some fine people in SF expressed their relief that they will get ìtheirî city back again.
“My sister, a bankruptcy lawyer in San Francisco, reminds me that it is callous to root for bankruptcy at CBS (really Viacom), because many will unfairly lose their jobs.”
This view reflects the notion that once one has a job, it should be for life. Like all good socialists and Europeans. The word ‘unfair’ is a dead giveaway too. (No, I’m not accusing your sister of being a socialist, just that it reflects the CW that many Americans who don’t understand our economy believe.)
Capitalism and its creative destruction are what give America its wealth and standing in the world.
Each month two to two and a half MILLION people lose/retire/leave their jobs. And two to two and a half MILLION people get new jobs.
The difference between those who lose and those who gain is the BLS net jobs creation figure.
By all means anyone who can, should attempt the retention of as many jobs as possible. But this should be on a case by case basis, not part of an overarching principle that a static job market is the goal.
Roger:
I am sure that your sister is a lovely person, but if CBS and Viacom do not suffer some economic pain they will have no incentive to produce a quality product. Maybe bankruptcy is a tad harsh but unless Viacom takes a hit and some people lose their jobs “fake but accurate” will replace check and verify as the modern journalistic standard. If your sister still thinks you are cold hearted remind her you could be the next victim of “fake but accurate” since you wear pajamas.
How about asking your sister if it was callous to protest the US fighting commies in Vietnam? — knowing that if the US pulls out, commies will commit genocide?
Peace AND genocide, or fighting evil. Which is more callous?
Is there any one American more responsible for the US letting the commies win than Kerry?
(Yes, Nixon — stupid cover-up; Kerry is prolly only #2, decorated war hero against US war crimes; genocide OK)
I find the “fortunate son/NG” narrative to be highly ahistorical. The nations history is replete with volunteer military organizations made up of fortunate sons. Sometimes they had an opportunity to show their mettle in battle and sometimes not. The 1st Volunteer US Cavalry Regiment (dismounted) had a substantial number of “fortunate sons”. For those who don’t know this unit is also known as the Rough Riders first commanded by Col Leonard Wood and then one fellow by the name of Theodore Roosevelt.
In all the discussion of Rather’s motives I have not seen anything about his own military history. According to BG Burkett’s book, Stolen Valor, Rather joined the Army Reserves to avoid service in the Korean War. After the war had ended and he finished college, he enlisted in the Marine Corps but was dropped from basic training as “medically unfit.”