What has kept the peace in the last 70 years, such that battlefield deaths declined from an average of 60 per 100,000 in the 20th century to three tenths of a person per 100,000 today? How can we account for the fact that nearly three generations of men have not had to fight a general war? Was peace maintained by the Pax Americana? Or the stability of the bipolar world? Could the United States standing guard from the inner German border to the Korean DMZ have had anything to do with it? No. It was none of these. The truth is we owe it all to the Euro. French President Sarkozy explains:
Speaking to reporters, Sarkozy called the euro “the beating heart of Europe.”
“We cannot accept the explosion of the euro, which would mean the explosion of Europe,” Sarkozy told a news conference before the G20 leaders went into a working dinner Thursday evening.
Advertisement“If the euro exploded, Europe would explode. And in fact it’s the guarantee of peace on the continent where there were terrible wars — fiercer than anywhere else in the world — not in the 15th century but in the 20th century.”
And that is why — so the argument goes — the Euro must be saved at all costs. To keep Europe intact. To save the peace. That argument may not be universally convincing but it’s one hell of a line. It was either uttered in earnest by a Sarkozy who believes it to the depths of his soul or by a man desperate to use any argument to keep his pet political project alive.
The heretical argument would be to maintain that the Euro was never designed to defend the world; merely designed to defend the EU — the bureaucracy and not what it purports to represent. That viewpoint would hold that the peace has not been kept by people like Herman von Rompuy, the President of Europe; that the EU merely confused its existence with a time of peace with the idea that it caused it.
What is the truth? In the following video BBC interviewer Jeremy Paxman savages Nigel Farage for imagining that Britain might actually need to defend herself in the modern world. And surely it would not have to defend anything if Sarkozy were right and while Rompuy stands guard.
But then the BBC might be wrong. However the BBC’s point of view is a much more widely held body of opinion than Farage’s, who mainstream politics views as a crackpot. And since it is viewpoints like the BBC’s which gave rise to the EU in the first place and which would the most disappointed to see it go, it might be well to understand how the better class of people regard the world.
What is remarkable about Farage is that he isn’t remarkable at all. Apart from a certain facility of expression, most of his ideas are what would have been called “commonplaces” from 50 years ago. His ideas — that Britain should be ruled by the British, that deficits should be reduced by spending less and earning more, that prisoners should be incarcerated rather than set loose in the “community”, that armies and navies are useful because they always have been — would not have been original a generation ago. They might even have been regarded as common sense. But somewhere along the line, through a reversal that historians have yet to fully explain, these common sense ideas somehow became crazy talk.
Jeremy Paxman clearly regards Farage with barely concealed contempt, almost as if he were indulging some escapee from a lunatic asylum; or treating with a retarded child too stupid to register even the most offensive insult. Yet the viewer of the video may gradually come to realize that it is Paxman, not Farage, who is chock full of crazy talk. It is a realization that turns to horror upon appreciating that neither Paxman nor his enlightened viewers have even the vaguest idea of just how insane their ideas are. Jeremy Paxman rattles on in the sincere conviction that the world is just as he imagines it.
Strange as it may seem, Sarkozy might be entirely sincere in his belief that the Euro, the EU and its masses of be-ribboned treaty paper have have kept the peace, simply one of the numberless thousands among a generation which truly subscribes to these things. This detachment from the facts, the invincibility of their fantasy is at the psychological root of the Euro debacle. They never saw it coming; they could never see it coming because reality did not compute. For there are none so blind as they who will not see. It may be a mercy that George Papandreou, rather than Attila the Hun or Hulagu Khan, is history’s chosen instrument to prick their bubble. The collapse of the European dream will be painful, but it is unlikely to be bloody. In a sense Sarkozy was right; Brussels did keep the peace by being so incompetent it has not even the wherewithal to physically hurt itself.
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Proof perfect of why other nations loath the French.
What Greece needs to do is sell some Islands. They have thousands. Sell enough to pay off the principal of their debt and then tell the French to pound sand.
AFAIK there has been no serious exploration for hydrocarbons in the Aegean Sea. Israel found gas off their coast, it would be in the best Interests of Greece to have a good American Company do some test holes.
Don’t let any OIL company that is owned by a Nation get involved.
The BBC guy is given more to sneering than savaging. You could probably plug the oh so knowing BBC guy into NPR in the U.S. or the CBC in Canada. He is a type commonly found in the land of Progressia; the Bien Pensant. A waste of space really. Who were the zombies assembled in the background?
As my cheeky daughter used to say as a seven year old. Bien Pensant, “blow it out your ear”. Not a cogent rebuttal of Mr BBC but a natural reaction.
Sarkozy is a vile servant of the global finance and a vassal to Germany, as his hungarian roots influence his mental, not like a normal french politician (rather like Hungary was siding Nazy Germany). While Germany had always the goal to protect her sovereeignty, through Karlsruhe court, France abdicated it with the Maestricht treaty, our government can only ratify what Germany decides
some explanations here (for francophones):
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xj7xvj_marie-france-garaud-l-euro-c-est-un-deutshemark_news
MF Garaud is saying that Kohl pushed ahead for the euro, as it was a element of unification for the german lands, and especially for the new annexed eastern Germany. The euro in his mind should have been available only for the former Holy Roman empire nations (France included), certainly not for the Mediterranean club. It’s Romano Prodi, the Italian EU commission president that pressed hard on the Germans to accept the southern club, which today Germany is reluctant to support, and is pushing slowly to the hedge of EZ.
also explained here (for the francophones)
http://www.marianne2.fr/M-F-Garaud-l-Allemagne-place-ses-interets-au-dessus-de-l-Europe_a200339.html
also it seems that Germany is priviledging her ties with the Mittel Europa states and Russia, she still courtise France because she still need it, but for how long?
as the oriental partnership was/is ment to, the meeting happened in Warsaw at the end of september 2011, where nor Britain, nor France, nor the Mediterranean countries club went.
Stoicheion
wrong, there’s oil around the greek islands, that’s why Turkey is interested by greek islands too, that’s why Greece doesn’t want to renounce to its army budget
The Euro was adopted in 1995, a half century after World War II ended. The Euro is necessary for peace in Europe? As they say in Venezuela, tell me another cowboy story.
Marie Claude again reminds us who’s really running the show in EUrope. She has no illusions about the greatness of Le France being reflected in that institution in any way shape or form.
EU = 4th Reich, as some other ‘crackpots’ aka Mr. Bean’s Brother Rodney Atkinson were writing more than ten years ago.
http://www.freenations.freeuk.com/publications.html
http://www.freenations.freeuk.com/germany-calling.html
The wise action for America is to get out of toxic cauldron of MENA with its religious/ tribal hatreds and to end that toxic regions influence upon the American political process.
Americas future is with the Anglosphere–UK, Canada, Australia, NZ and maybe India and the Philippines.
We should keep are commercial relationship with KSA, UAE and Kuwait but the rest of MENA should be cut loose.
During the Cold War some MENA countries were a questionable asset
–now they are a clear liability– to fundamental American interests
The wars of the Twentieth Century had two main causes. First improvements in public health during the 19th Century had led to great improvements in infant mortality, which led to rapidly expanding populations. Each ethnic group on the continent saw this condition continuing in perpetuity and leaders worried about having land for great expansions in their farm populations. They worried about where their future surplus populations could go as the United States closed down most immigration possibilities to it.
Also, the development and growth of public free education raised the question, crucial in the many mixed ethnic states, of what language that education would be provided in.
The fears and rivalries involved with these factors led to the violence Europe experienced. Hitler very explicity sought Lebensraum for future German populations.
Since the second world war population growth has become population decline. The quest for lebensraum is dead.
Except for the immigration of Muslims to Europe required by economics in the face of this decline, most nation states have become much more homogeneous, as a result of border changes and population expulsions particularly from Czechoslovakia and Poland. The breakup of Yugoslavia and the more recent fighting there has ameliorated ethnic strive there which was never resolved when the country was united. The breakup of Czechoslovakia also relieved tension.
Notice that tensions were particularly dangerous when they were internal, within a state. There is far more potential for strife if Europe developed a stronger central government than there is now.
There are still potential ethnic rivalries in the Baltic states, and the Muslim populations represent potential problems, but these are mainly internal to existing states, and do not provided motivation for war between European nations.
BBC guy reminds me of Reg in Monty Python’s Life of Brian. This is what the ever so politically correct Euro-Socialist calls soft power. Rather than show up with a Regiment of Sherwoood Forresters and the Royal Navy a nice prepared statement will do:
Reg: [arriving at Brian's crucifixion] Hello, Sibling Brian.
Brian: Thank God you’ve come, Reg.
Reg: Well, I think I should point out first, Brian, in all fairness, we are not, in fact, the rescue committee. However, I have been asked to read the following prepare statement on behalf of the movement. “We the People’s Front of Judea, brackets, officials, end brackets, do hereby convey our sincere fraternal and sisterly greetings to you, Brian, on this, the occasion of your martyrdom. ”
Brian: What?
Reg: “Your death will stand as a landmark in the continuing struggle to liberate the parent land from the hands of the Roman imperialist aggressors, excluding those concerned with drainage, medicine, roads, housing, education, viniculture and any other Romans contributing to the welfare of Jews of both sexes and hermaphrodites. Signed, on behalf of the P. F. J. , etc. ” And I’d just like to add, on a personal note, my own admiration, for what you’re doing for us, Brian, on what must be, after all, for you a very difficult time.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0079470/quotes?qt=qt0471967
I imagine it would be pointless to point out to Mr Sarkozy that Europe is neither the EU or the Euro.
If you don’t have a military you save tons of money and are less likely to have excitable foreigners attempting to get you involved in their quarrels in distant countries about which you know nothing. Didn’t that work so well the last time the British tried it? 85 years ago the British Treasury called it the 10 year rule. Every year the Cabinet declared that there would be no threat that could emerge without 10 years warning. That was considered long enough to rebuild the military then. HM Treasury then gave the MoD enough money to perform minimal peacetime operations, such as parading around Buck House. They kept right on saying there was no imminent threat until 1937. Modern military systems take even longer to design and get into service than did those that fought WW-II.
The arrogance of ignorance is a common behavior. If you do not arm you cannot get into a fight. If you do not object to a bully then he will just go away. If you turn off the radio then you will not be disturbed by bad news. If you do not inspect the books then you will not detect fraud. Vaclav Havel said that the Communists never looked out the window.
People who refuse to consider unwanted possibilities never doubt or examine or prepare, unless doing so is simply an exercise in consumption with a result that is either ignored or withheld to use as a weapon in a personality dispute. That is how they end up with the most unexamined President ever in the US and the most insolvent financial system in history in Europe as mayhem breaks out across the globe and there are no resources, financial military or intellectual, prepared to face the crisis.
Marie, my bad. I should have Googled, or Binged;
http://www.offshore-technology.com/projects/epsilonoilfield/
Lets see if they can leverage it.
Cut to Monty Python variation where all are chanting: “Bring Out YOur Dumbth!”
There’s a virus loose in the world that seemingly infests the brainstem of people at puberty, taking the delusion of competence and magnifying it to gargantuan proportions. In some victims it steers their choices towards the frenzied giving of orders to everyone around them, making up rules and regulations, making them think that they have won arguments by superior reasoning when in fact they’ve just driven their friends away with their shouting.
In the balance of its pathetic victims, the virus amplifies a pathologic belief in their own infallibility, and they find their way into the so-called schools of journalism, and then into the precincts of the Alleged News Media. You can see them in a vast annular stimulation fiesta that serves as the 24-hour news cycle, interviewing each other, repeating magnificent phrases as though they actually understand them (Remember the week they all learned the word “Gravitas?”) and giving each other Pulitzer Prizes for imaginary insights and revelations.
You could see this at work in folks such as Walter Cronkite, who seemingly went to his grave believing that *HE* had somehow compelled Anwar Sadat’s 1977 offer to make peace with Israel by the force of his journalistic integrity…
Those little pricks of conscience at the BBC likewise think that they know more than anyone they interview about whatever it is their guest has been studying and treating for decades.
These guys are suffering from the progressive dementia that results from reaching for the water pitcher on the nightstand and instead drinking from the urinal.
hmm may-be somme comments are welcome here, I know how “islamist integrism” is appreciated as a threat by many BCcommenters
http://www.economist.com/blogs/newsbook/2011/11/france-and-islam?sort=1#sort-comments
3. Marie Claude
I tried your links but Madame Garaud used some fancy words and sentences that are beyond my limited French. I understood some of it however. She seemed to upset some BBC guys who were in the audience.
Don’t worry friends, even after the Euros kill their defense budgets the Russians will defend their Orthodox little brothers from Turkish aggression.
That’s according to Stanislav Mishin, aka Mat Rodina
Our host summarized the view of the Ruling Class: “… the Euro must be saved at all costs. To keep Europe intact. To save the peace.”
It is clear that the EU and its component governments are all toast — all pursuing an unsustainable path of spending more than they take in. That will end. Will it end in violence? And who would be the aggressor(s)?
Mostly likely aggressor would be the EUnuch Political Class itself, which will arm its tax agencies and come after their own citizens, seeking more blood from that well-squeezed stone. A Marxist might say there is a historical inevitability about Europe descending into civil war.
Then what? One scenario is that Iran would intervene to rescue the downtrodden Muslim minority in Europe, maybe aided by Turkish & Egyptian troops and Saudi weapons. EUtopians could not hope for a benevolent US-style “occupation” of Iraq; this would at best be closer to the permanent Norman occupation of Saxon England.
A rosier scenario might be that Russia would intervene militarily to protect those parts of the industrial capacity of old Europe it desires — protecting the assets, not the old European political structures. At least the surving EUro workers would have sufficient vodka to drown their pains.
Either way, the EUnuchs will be on their own. Americans are likely to be tied up with their own civil war. And if they are not, there certainly will be zero interest in intervening in Europe’s approaching bloody mess.
#14 mad fiddler:
“You could see this at work in folks such as Walter Cronkite, who seemingly went to his grave believing that *HE* had somehow compelled Anwar Sadat’s 1977 offer to make peace with Israel by the force of his journalistic integrity…”
The same “journalistic integrity” that caused him to lie about the Tet victory for political purposes?
Ah, well, at least today there are means that exist to get the truth out in alternate information streams. The left’s former hegemony on the information stream is just that, former. Such “integrity” does not carry the potential for damage that it once did, even though it flourishes in journalism students now as much as it did in Cronkite during his heyday.
“We must save the Euro to protect our phony bologna jobs…er scratch that…We must save the Euro to prevent bad breath in dogs and flatulence in mice..uh,no…We must save the Euro or my Son can no longer afford the cover charge at his favorite leather bar and the economy revolves around leather…nah….Crap, call my broker and have him buy some more gold for my Swiss account.”
http://koreajoongangdaily.joinsmsn.com/news/article/Article.aspx?aid=2943650
“In fact, there is a rather surprising parallel for stable coexistence of two currencies over a long period of time. Before the victory of the gold standard in the 1870s, Europe had operated with a bimetallic standard for centuries, using silver as well as gold. Each metal had its different coinage. This regime was so successful in part because the coins were used for different purposes. High-value gold coins were used as a reference for large-value transactions and international business. Low-value silver coins were used for day-to-day transactions, including payment of modest wages and rents. Silver was what Shakespeare termed the “pale and common drudge ‘tween man and man.””
There is what is called ‘the German problem’: how to prevent Germany from causing more wars in Europe. After WW2 there were two approaches to the problem. The first was the division of Germany; this lasted 45 years, but now Germany is reunited once again and is the dominate country in Europe.
The second solution was to ‘drown’ Germany, linking Germany with the rest of Europe (particularly France). This melding or yoking together has been the great European project for decades, both economically and politically. If it fails then ‘the German problem’ arises once again.
“The collapse of the European dream will be painful, but it is unlikely to be bloody. In a sense Sarkozy was right; Brussels did keep the peace by being so incompetent it has not even the wherewithal to physically hurt itself.”
A senile old continent dying the way a senile old man would…….sort of pathetic.
Not with a bang, but a wimper.
The decision to abruptly end having boots on the ground in Iraq is preparation for having boots on the ground in Iran. Having three simultaneous wars would be too much for the Nobel Prize committee, after all, and they would revoke Obama’s Peace Prize faster than they revoked Milli Vanilli’s Grammy.
If the march of folly ended, how would we laugh at the human comedy?
18. Kinuachdrach There are no Islamic Nations that are physically capable of invading Europe. Logistics.
24. Teresita; Logistics again. Boots on the ground in Iran REQUIRES Iraq as a staging area. Iran has no place on it’s coast where the logistics for an over-the-beach invasion are possible. The Russians could invade from the North as they did in WW2 (’41, IIRC) but there are serious mountains between Russia and the heartland of Iran.
A few fanatics with ATGM’s could keep that border closed for a long time.
RE: Jeremy Paxman
I don’t get excited over the Jeremy Paxman’s of the world – variations on a theme including Jerry Springer and Robert Downey (Sr, the father.) They are Entertainment, nothing more.
What is (marginally) more interesting is the British-American Project to which he belongs. What is apparently a well known fact is that the BAP is a CIA front. I see from the Wiki page that Po Bronson is also a member. Po Bronson is one of those notables who makes a living by being … notable.
Po, the CIA agent. Who knew?
I don’t know, wretchard.
Sarkozy may be on to something. Although, the French Mrs. Doubtfire is currently suggesting that a particular currency represents the ties that bind, he is also saying there are all kinds of families.
The utopian leftists live in a world that orbits itself. It spins only to the left and stops spinning only long enough to let a little more reality escape its stifling atmosphere.
It survives by breathing in more acceptance and exhaling peer pressure. The Socialists, Communists, small c communists are all theory, no practical application. They can’t run anything that that doesn’t collapse.
This current collapse of the euro is harshing their mellow. And you can’t upset an effete Armani Hippie any more than by toasting his harsh mellow.
Nirvananians live to recycle old trashed faculty lounge versions of leftist world dominance. They have it in their hot little hands right now. The BBC drooling tool (apparently taking a day off from slandering Israel) is merely parroting the sneer against the non-nuanced interpretation of …well, you know…facts.
When a leftist has no answer they resort immediately to the puerile playground and start mocking, calling names…instead of doodyball or washing machine head…they now use things like racist, homophobe, warmonger. Although “stupid” seems to have remained a a favorite.
Leftists are in full world domination mode. They want to “transform” the rest of us into useful utopians, lapdogs and lemmings. Because they have an iron grip on mass media outlets…they get to run their informercials during the news hour. Then, they forget to remember that it was all made up propaganda and pretend to believe their own BS.
What keeps them from going completely mad is the peer pressure to keep up the facade. The OCCUPY movement is the fraying fringe coming apart on the bellbottoms. Indeed the franco riots, the greco riots and the OCCUPY riots are of a family with ties that bind. The gimmee, gimmee, gimmmee promises unfulfilled by the faux utopia…is splitting at the seams.
The propaganda machine has blown a gasket. It is working overtime to push the blame someplace. The leftist and their world domination scheme has taken us to the edge of the abyss. We can be pushed in, we can jump in…or we can turn around and confront what comes next. Either way, it won’t be pretty.
26. stoicheion: 24. Teresita; Logistics again. Boots on the ground in Iran REQUIRES Iraq as a staging area.
Only if we wanted to go after Tehran. But our national interests are wrapped up in the Persian Gulf, Strait of Hormuz, and the Gulf of Oman. Qatar, Kuwait, and Bahrain are ideal staging areas for gator freighters.
After announcing this month the complete drawdown from troops in Iraq by the end of the year, the Pentagon is planning to increase its military presence in the Persian Gulf region, the New York Times reports.
Bleachers, part of what you’re saying is that there is an inverse correlation between group cohesion and openness of system and adaptability to change. This really is a snake eating its tail, not a bad image given the role of the serpent in the whole mess they’ve made. The trick will be to keep your own neck out of the noose.
My British-American friend, living in London for twenty years now, shows no awareness of the insanity that passes for thinking on that side of the Atlantic these days. The prevailing line seems to be that of an abused wife: they can’t afford to leave.
W: “This detachment from the facts, the invincibility of their fantasy is at the psychological root of the Euro debacle. They never saw it coming; they could never see it coming because reality did not compute. For there are none so blind as they who will not see.”
Paranoia is an irrational belief – believing something to be true when it is false. When a person believes something to be true, and the belief is supported by observation and reason, the belief in question is not paranoia. Rational belief is based on truth whereas paranoia is based on untruth. To prove paranoia one must first prove that the belief in question is untrue.
Most people think of paranoia as believing in something that isn’t really there – suspicious paranoia – the man who irrationally believes “there’s someone out to get me” when it is not true. There is however another type of paranoia – another type of irrational belief – which is intellectual blindness – the man who can’t see what really is there – a man who believes someone is not out to get him when in truth a man is out to get him. Thus, the blind fool is as paranoid as the suspicious fool.
Phobia is the hell of irrational fear which follows on the heels of suspicious paranoia – irrational fear of something that is not really there – the hell of falsehood seen. Another form of hell follows on the heels of irrational lack of fear – irrationally lacking fear of something that is there – which brings to mind an insight of Thomas Hobbes: “Hell is truth seen too late.”
29. Teresita, If we don’t go after Tehran, there is no point. There is an old military axiom; “Kick ‘em, don’t spit on them.” War is NOT a game. It is too bloody and too expensive to wage for diplomatic points.
With modern technology and the enormous advantage the USA has over Iran, it might be possible to affect regime change by Air Power alone. I doubt that, but it is a theory.
Even a successful decapitation strike would leave 75 million irate people with long memories. They are backwards, not stupid. Any long term solution involves either nukes or my Y plan.
With Air Power alone, the USA could change Iran from a 3rd world mudhole to a stone age mudhole. Not sure that would be an improvement. Positive it would be a waste of money. I think they best way to deal with nuclear weapon proliferation is to withdraw from the NPT and sell weapons to our allies. Under the current set-up, only those crazy enough to use them are getting nukes. That is pretty stupid.
Iran spend billions on it’s nuke program. Show them the error of their ways by selling their (Iran’s) potential victims nukes.
People forget just how nasty nukes are. Almost 70 years since Hiroshima. Nuking a city once every generation would really get a push going to cut down the numbers of nukes. Real cuts, not the fake ones in START and SALT treaties. In both those treaties nukes were DISMANTLED, not destroyed. It takes like hours to put them back together.
If every nation had 1 nuke, nobody would use it, since using it would mean disarming yourself.
@ 3. Marie Claude:
“MF Garaud is saying that Kohl pushed ahead for the euro, as it was a element of unification for the german lands, and especially for the new annexed eastern Germany. ”
He’s standing the facts on their head. Germany’s sacrifice of her prized Deutschmark in exchange for the then-ECU was the price France imposed for not blocking German re-unification.
Stoicheion 32,
As freedom-loving people we must never find ourselves in the position of not having nuclear weapons, because tyrants will always have them no matter what is written on a piece of paper. It is best to err on the side of safety – which means keeping nuclear weapons – than to find one’s self defenseless in the face of nuclear-armed tyrants. This is the type of common sense – referred to above by Wretchard – that was common place in former generations of Americans.
What a ridiculous claim. There are rational arguments for European union. The idea that the ideal of Europe is the capstone (cornerstone?) of a less violent world is not just ahistorical, it is a level of gross arrogance so unbelievable as to boggle the mind.
If you weren’t yoke to Europe by our banking and financial connections, I’d say let them fail.
It is, by the way, all about the European elites saving their phony baloney jobs!
Our President is speaking on TV now. The man just does not understand basic economics. Now he’s congratulating everyone on a plan to eliminate fossil fuel subsidies because as we all know, the only thing standing between us and our bountiful green energy future is the ability of oil drillers to write off their expenses.
What a Maroon!
Victor @7. We finally agree. The Anglo sphere is the critical, not yet formalized organization. Some sort of circle the wagons feature needed.
Daniel @8. Really? I respectfully disagree. War is a very primal act and as such has very primal causes. The more complex the reasoning, the harder it is to see the truth. War is the simple act of wanting what someone else has or protecting your own. All the other things, religion, ideology, ethnicity et al are simply ways of separating the ‘We’ from the ‘They’. The over arching motives of the young soldier, God, duty, honor, country, mom and apple pie are constructs used by the leaders to man the armies. You cannot find a war in history where the Real Reason is not economic (power = money = economy)
@26. Iran doesn’t have any place for Easy over the beach logistics. First target of an invasion (as opposed to a Recon in Force, RiF) would be a suitable port a la Normandy.)
Terri @ 29. Gator fleet is designed for the over the beach assault, not longer term supply. In Gulf I the Assault Follow On Logistics Force for 4th and 5th MEB’s were scheduled for D+12 HOURS and consisted of ships taken up from trade, (Military Sealift Command out of moth ball ships) while the 4th ID was scheduled on regular commercial vessels. USN does not have enough lift to put more that two or three brigades ashore in a single lift. Sad really. And that would require all hands.
In Gulf I, had it not been decided to use half the afloat marines as a feint and other half as strategic reserve, we would have used the crane ship (USNS Flickertail State) as a floating pier long enough for the CB’s to do there thing.
Finally, Open note to Britain. Run from Europe as fast as you can. Never in the course of British history has any continental involvement turned out well for you…cousins.
BUT….
Can we be comforted by the knowledge that regular european common folks and these eurocrats hold vastly different views?
It seems to me the post-WWII generations, who numbered more than the older folks now, completely bought in the idea that ‘education on the socialist utopia improve the human kind’ and that peace is the natural state so all aggressions should be eliminated.
In this view, Nigel Farages of the world are indeed the ‘crackpots’.
Europe has kept the peace. They have managed to subjugate 450 million people and to keep them from being free in a democracy where their voices are heard. Europe has all the army they need. How many tanks does it take to run over a few thousand protesters?
If the EU project goes forward we may find out that the Soviet Union succeeded in taking over Europe via East Germany. They are the ideological godparents of US schools.
In europe, the living memory of war helped peace efforts. Future generations won’t have that inhibiting factor.
The same “journalistic integrity” that caused him to lie about the Tet victory for political purposes?
Here’s another one of Cronkite’s sins: he swallowed the notion that the USSR was never in a “Moon Race” with the U.S., and broadcast that opinion to a gullibel world.
The only reason Europe managed to “keep the peace” is because the Soviets were afraid of our nukes. And Czechoslovakia and Hungary might debate the “keeping the peace” part.
Bohemond
“He’s standing the facts on their head. Germany’s sacrifice of her prized Deutschmark in exchange for the then-ECU was the price France imposed for not blocking German re-unification.”
not what MF Garaud said
Mitterrand couldn’t do anything to stop Germany from reunification, unless he would have declared war on Germany then, which never was his wish.
What he had preferred, is that Germany shouldn’t had been so prompt into de facto annexing eastern Germany,he had preferred that eastern Germany remained a independant state like the former soviet republics, because he feared that Russia could turn back into a fashist soviet country through a military coup, Gorbatchev had warned Mitterrand that that was the most likely possibility (though it happened through Eltsine and failed because of luck)
POISONOUS NARRATIVES
We have that here, in spades. The reporting by the so-called MSM (Orwellian in itself, since there’s nothing “mainstream” about Big Media) on the #OWS defies reality and common sense. They are forced by circumstances to show the violence, but still qualify it heavily. The anti-semitism, lunatic radicalism, the filth, the crimes, including rapes, the devastation to local neighborhoods and businesses, these go largely unreported on a national level. It is a depraved journalistic philosophy. The #OWS camps are even attracting genuine right-wing radicals, the actual ones, like Nazis, David Duke, Aryan Nation, etc., but you’d never know it from any news reports. Instead, the local ABC affiliate routinely refers to “Tea Party” elected Congressmen as “right-wing extremists;” no, really.
As to the “peaceful” protests, I reject that term as a false narrative as well. While most of the #OWS “protesters” may not be violent, it is not at all peacuful to shut down a major port, block traffic, occupy public and private property for extended periods, create a public nuisance and magnets for crime, drive away business, etc. These are not peaceful activities — these are mobs.
westerncanadian
I didn’t know that the guy who was smiling was a BBC guy, she told him, no need to smile, these are facts
In 1914, the Armies mobilized, there was much violence, and then economic disaster followed. In 2014 we may see economic disaster, much violence, and then the Armies will be formed.
39 Baobo:
“In europe, the living memory of war helped peace efforts.”
1938 was only twenty years removed from the war to end all wars. Most Brits and French remained pacifists a la Chamberlain until it was nearly too late. German and Russian leaders (the only ones in those conutries who mattered) had no reservations.
Anti nuke activists in the 80′s were nearly forty years from any real knowledge of war. That campaign was driven by the elite’s anti Americanism, the KGB, and useful idiots.
The main difference between 1914/ 1939 and today is that the Jeremy Paxmans of the world believe in British exceptionalism the way Obama believes in American exceptionalism and the Russians believe in Russian exceptionalism. Nationalism is so 20th century, man. It will take the equivalent of the Blitzkrieg or the Blitz to change European public opinion.
Stoicheion @ 26: “There are no Islamic Nations that are physically capable of invading Europe. Logistics.”
A student of recent history might conclude that the Islamic invasion of Europe has been underway for the last few decades. Just count the number of European cities which now have shiny new well-attended mosques.
On a possible future Islamic military invasion to stop their co-religionists from being abused in EUroland, there is the grand highway of the Mediterranean Sea between Egypt & Turkey and the EU. Think of the Gaza flotillas heading in the opposite direction. Of course, even a modest EU military effort could repulse shiploads of Turkish/Egyptian soldiers. But the EU believes it has no need to be able to mount that kind of modest military effort, and is reducing its military capabilities year-on-year.
It is a changing world.
24. Teresita said: “….faster than they revoked Milli Vanilli’s Grammy…”
————
Girl, you know it’s true.
(43. Don) Mr. Duke is an agent.
44. Marie claude
The smiling guy does not work for the BBC. I was using “BBC guy” as another phrase for “Bien Pensant”. As you know, he was trying to effect a superior sneer at what she was saying. He was a “correct thinker” hearing things he did not like.
49. Baobo
(43. Don) Mr. Duke is an agent.
???????
As in FBI? Even if so, if that’s your point, so what? Is his support, and that of other supposedly “informant” infiltrators who are Nazis, etc., has not been turned away by #OWS, then what difference does it make? These people are shunned by the Tea Party, but embraced by #OWS.
1914 wasn’t a crisis era war for Western Europe/NA, the 1930′s financial crises weren’t (politically) caused by the effects of the ‘Great war’ (though the lingering problems of reparations did play a role). On the other hand, 1939 (after the depression) was a crisis era war for Western Europe/NA, the crisis era starting with the Great Depression. So your later scenario is the typical order for crisis eras.
1. Stoicheion – “AFAIK there has been no serious exploration for hydrocarbons in the Aegean Sea. Israel found gas off their coast, it would be in the best Interests of Greece to have a good American Company do some test holes.”
Would propose an alternate explanation: The Greeks purchase their oil and natural gas from their new best friends in Israel, which is about to be a massive exporter of oil and natural gas. The Israelis need a market. Greece and the rest of Europe provides one. Story from last July about Israel and Greece forging closer links. Note that this is pretty smart, as it starts surrounding a newly belligerent Turkey with an Israeli-friendly group of nations. URL follows: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-08-23/greece-deepens-israeli-ties-seeking-economic-gains-amid-crisis.html
Cheers -
DR@43: The #OWS camps are even attracting genuine right-wing radicals, the actual ones, like Nazis, David Duke,
Why we passed our Tea Party resolution:
The avowed racist David Duke notes that thousands of Tea Party activists have urged him to run for president. When the Tea Party marches by, Duke thinks it’s his fiesta.
Will Dr. David Duke Run for U.S. President?
Dr. Duke thinks that the nation is ready for his candidacy, as he can show leadership on almost every Republican conservative issue. If the Democrats can elect Barack Obama to the President of the United States, the Republicans now have the man who, without doubt, offers the clearest answer to Obama.
Don’t miss the cute little video link of Dr. Duke speaking on behalf of heritage and freedom.
David Duke is not a “Right Wing Radical” because Fascism is Left Wing – nearly as far Left as Marxism. The Tea Party is Center-Right because our Declaration of Independence and Constitution are Center-Right. There is a great divide between the Tea Party (Declaration of Independence and Constituiton), and both David Duke (Fascism) and Barak Obama (Marxism).
http://bcmoney-mobiletv.com/view/1083/the-american-form-of-government/
40. Don Rodrigo Here’s another one of Cronkite’s sins: he swallowed the notion that the USSR was never in a “Moon Race” with the U.S., and broadcast that opinion to a gullibel world.
They had a modified Soyuz called Zond, ready to orbit the Moon, but it was mothballed after Apollo 8 beat them to the punch. Soyuz was (and is) one hell of a reliable spacecraft.
David Duke is not a “Right Wing Radical” because Fascism is Left Wing – nearly as far Left as Marxism.
The ideological spectrum is not a straight line, with right and left “ends” trailing off into infinity. The spectrum is a circle, with extreme right and extreme left joining at the bottom.
I am using the conventional narrative when referring to Duke and Nazis as “right wing” to underscore the mendacity of the MSM/Democrat narrative of the Tea Party as “Radical right wing,” and the irony of the actual “right wing radicals” being more attuned to the “occupiers.”
Don Rodrigo 57,
Left Wing means government domination of the individual. Since government is a small group of other people, Left Wing means domination of the great mass of people by a small group of other people; thus, Left Wing means any form of Oligarchy such as Monarchy, Fascist Dictatorship, Islam-Fascist Dictatorship or Marxist Dictatorship. The old Left-Right paradigm is false because it is not based on the power relationship between government (a small group of people) and the great mass of individuals. The old Left-Right paradigm is false because it is irrationally based on a seating arrangement in legislative buildings.
Right Wing means anarchy – no government.
Right-Center means government limited to its essential function of securing the equal rights of all individals to life, liberty and fruit of labor in pursuit of happiness – the American Revolution.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7M-7LkvcVw
Don- I’d agree that it almost doesn’t matter whether he’s real or synthetic. He is a caricature either way, and a very sad one. I only wonder how he lives with himself saying “it’s only an act” a thousand times daily, while inflicting all the same damage as the villain he plays.
57. Don Rodrigo, I like to use the terms totalitarian, statist or control freak to describe those who seek power and control. Cult leader/member often works too. I’m stunned there is no significant tea party in EUnuchstan.
Re: logistics. Don’t neglect will. If, say, the Turks wanted to march to the Channel they could – and would be nearly unopposed (especially if they decamped Thursday night while the unionized EU militaries (who are more sharpshooting teams and show-bands than those who know how to use armor and major weapons systems) were off for their typical four-day weekend – or vacationing on the Turkish coast).
They have plenty of ammo, armor, aircraft and transport. What they lack is food and fuel. But it turns out there’s plenty available to forage now that europe has moved from farm-to-market to agribusiness – with large warehouses – and even big-box stores, all in well known locations. And a starving population is a subservient population.
Question is “why would they want to?” – Could they benefit from anything more than looting, settling a grudge, erasing Armenia from history books, restablishing past glory and empire, perhaps moving their diaspora from downtrodden to rulers?
Annoy Mouse said: They are the ideological godparents of US schools.
——–
Public schools or universities? Parents pay for leftist colleges and universities. Hmmm. Why pay $40,000 a year for BA BS?
Then again, public schools reflect their communities. Of those who send their kids to public schools, most parents think ‘the other’ schools are broken. Hmm.
S-R@58: Right-Center means government limited to its essential function of securing the equal rights of all individals to life, liberty and fruit of labor in pursuit of happiness – the American Revolution.
And Left-Center describes those who believe government has a role in promoting the general welfare (18% to 20% (ratio spending (and taxes) to GDP with nominal deficits) being the old (pre-2008) optimum.)
One *might* make the claim that the radical fringes are being marginalized (David Duke, Wm Ayres) and that the new playing field lies between the Right-Center and the Left-Center – or – between 0% and 20%.
If this trend continues, we’ll all be Centrists before the end of the millennium.
If it does not continue, the playing field will become vulnerable to “salvation” from an outlier.
56: Teresita – They also had one modified to be a lander. Leonov was supposed to fly it. Interior looked like the interior of a steam locomotive. AV Leak had photos years ago. One man flight. He was supposed to unhook the air hose from the top of the ladder and reattach it on the bottom for air during the EVA. They didn’t explain what was supposed to happene during the climb up or down the ladder too well. Cheers -
64. agimarc
I’m sooo happy Brooke Alvarez is doing so well.
http://tinyurl.com/67b5e79
YBR 63: “Left-Center describes those who believe government has a role in promoting the general welfare…”
Left-Center does not promote the general welfare. Left-Center – like the Pigs of Animal Farm – is a self-serving promoter of its self (specific welfare via superior rights) – and a promoter of the lazy, tax-eating, government-dependent so-called proletariat class (specific welfare via superior rights). Our Founding Fathers set up a Right-Center government (Declaration and Constitution) which was designed to promote the general welfare of all citizens via protection of equal rights and provision of equal welfare. Our military serves all citizens equally, and so does the Post Office and Federal/Interstate highways. These innumerated powers are found in the Constitution and serve all Americans equally – and therefore promote the general welfare. All of our Left-Center social programs (SS, Medicare, Medicaid, Cash for Clunkers, Fannie, Freddie, etc.) serve some Americans (especially self-serving Left-Center government) more than others, and thus our current Left-Center government promotes specific welfare, and is thus destructive of the general welfare.
“If Congress can do whatever in their discretion can be done by money, and will promote the General Welfare, the Government is no longer a limited one, possessing enumerated powers, but an indefinite one, subject to particular exceptions.” James Madison
“They are not to do anything they please to provide for the general welfare, but only to lay taxes for that purpose. To consider the latter phrase not as describing the purpose of the first, but as giving a distinct and independent power to do any act they please which may be good for the Union, would render all the preceding and subsequent enumerations of power completely useless. It would reduce the whole instrument to a single phrase, that of instituting a Congress with power to do whatever would be for the good of the United States;
and as the sole judges of the good or evil, it would be also a power to do whatever evil they please… Certainly no such universal power was meant to be given them. It was intended to lace them up straightly within the enumerated powers and those without which, as means, these powers could not be carried into effect.” Thomas Jefferson
The political spectrum is not a circle. It is a line with collectivism at one end and anarchy at the other. The idea of a constitutional republic with a limited government is near the center — neither complete anarchy nor complete government control over individuals.