Crystal Balls
The oncoming Third Depression, according to Paul Krugman, will be the result of a failure of nerve. He fears that policymakers around the world have succumbed to their fears and pulled back just when economic safety was within reach; they haven’t borrowed enough; haven’t spent enough to avoid the catastrophe he believes is increasingly likely. Writing in the New York Times Krugman said:
We are now, I fear, in the early stages of a third depression. It will probably look more like the Long Depression than the much more severe Great Depression. But the cost — to the world economy and, above all, to the millions of lives blighted by the absence of jobs — will nonetheless be immense.
And this third depression will be primarily a failure of policy. Around the world — most recently at last weekend’s deeply discouraging G-20 meeting — governments are obsessing about inflation when the real threat is deflation, preaching the need for belt-tightening when the real problem is inadequate spending.
Who’s fault will it be? And if it is still possible to avert the disaster, how do we do it? It’s a debate that divides even the “experts”. Do we “stop spending” or as some others argue, keep spending to “stimulate the economy”? The trouble with the debate is that evidence of policy failure is regarded as a posteriori proof of timidity. Krugman meets the accusation that deficit spending might have brought on his Third Depression by arguing that we haven’t spent enough. In this world, nobody is justified by subsequent events. If things will get worse after the deficit spenders have been evicted from office in November, the losers will arise in a chorus arguing that if only they had been left to spend a little more, a little longer then all would have been well. And even those who argue for reduced spending will find themselves using arguments very similar to their foes. If the recession continues after spending is cut, maybe it was cut too late. Rick Santelli is so frustrated he resorts to shouting: ‘Just stop spending’. But he hasn’t lost his marbles completely, he’s just guessed the truth. No macroeconomic expert really knows what’s going to happen and maybe we ought to defer to economic judgment of the polls when they throw out the deficit spenders in November.
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But some people still think they can state the future as fact. Kevin Drum, writing in Mother Jones argues that anyone who believes Rick Santelli should look at Ireland, which lacking the ability of the US to run monster deficits is experiencing “horrific” economic pain. Like an anti-Lincoln Steffens he has seen the future and it doesn’t work. Drum writes, “any country that can avoid Ireland’s fate surely ought to. We certainly can, for example. So why do so many people want us to follow the Irish path instead?” Megan McCardle in the Atlantic isn’t completely convinced that Drum has constructed the arrow of causality correctly. “Saying that ‘the results have been horrific’ implies that we know the alternative, in the form of even higher debt, would not have been even worse. That is certainly the dominant macroeconomic theory, but that theory hardly rises to the second law of thermodynamics.”
McCardle’s comparison between macroeconomic theory and physics is more odious than one might think. The fact that experts cannot settle on the proper prediction suggests the model they use can give rise to multiple or even contradictory predictions, like a compass needle that spins with alacrity of the second hand of an analog watch. The physicist Frank Tipler says that with a compass like that you should start worrying. He argued that since Nobel Prize economists could manifestly rise only to the level of predictive competence of astrology, they should exhibit the same modesty as Madame La Zonga.
The most authoritative macroeconomic theories are those advanced by Nobel Prize Winners in Economic Science, to use the official title of the prize. The Economics Nobel Prize is awarded at the same time as the Nobel Prize in Physics, Chemistry, and Medicine, the three hard sciences. The implication is that macroeconomics has the same predictive power as the theories of physics, chemistry, and molecular biology. Indeed, we should judge the validity of macroeconomic theories in the same way we judge the theories of the hard sciences. If anything, we should demand even more rigor and reliability from macroeconomics, because it is far more important than any hard science. The failure of macroeconomic actions in the Great Depression led to World War II, in which many millions were killed, to say nothing of the vast misery caused by the Depression itself.
But who said Madame La Zonga should be modest? What Tipler failed to realize was that it was this very malleability that gave the macroeconomists their political enormous power. Unlike physicists, chemists and biologists — but like Madame La Zonga — macroeconomists are under no obligation to respect the limits of mathematics or even gravity. Every set of hard science calculations resemble each other, but every macroeconomic prediction is free to vary in any way you like. You can’t get two physicists to disagree by very much on the temperature of a light bulb. But you can get any number of interpretations on the temperature of an economy. This makes the economic forecasting useful in ways hard scientists could only dream of.
If economic experts are useless at telling us what will happen Rick Santelli may be right to let the ordinary voters deliver a judgment on deficit spending. If a roomful of Nobel Prize winning economists can’t do better than Al down at the garage, listen to Al. Yet many people, perhaps against their better judgment, will continue to patronize the experts for the same reason they talk to the clairvoyants in the pointy hats: they feel better when they are told what will happen, even if they suspect they are listening to lies. Doubt and uncertainty are psychologically difficult to bear so we banish it, if not always very well. People will pay money to hear that “there is a tall dark stranger in your future”, so why not give somebody money to pronounce that “the recession will be over in six months”? Maybe a tall dark stranger will in fact intersect our lives, just as the recession may actually end in six months but if it happens, we’ll be darned if we know why. But we won’t care because it will seem like it came true.
The lack of a good predictive economic model has an equalizing effect on the public discourse. Where nothing is known the average man may literally know as much about the economic future of the country as the President. Just as a blind man may be the equal of sighted person in pitch darkness, getting the voters rather than the gatekeepers to decide things is no loss. Leaving economic policy to common sense might actually be the safer course. Wikipedia described an experiment in the 1980s which suggested that because macroeconomic models performed so poorly, the best course was often to leave well enough alone and muddle through rather than relying on ‘activist’ or ‘visionary’ prescriptions.
In the late 1980s a research institute compared the twelve top macroeconomic models available at the time. They asked the designers of these models what would happen to the economy under a variety of quantitatively specified shocks, and compared the diversity in the answers (allowing the models to control for all the variability in the real world; this was a test of model vs. model, not a test against the actual outcome). Although the designers were allowed to simplify the world and start from a stable, known baseline (e.g. NAIRU unemployment) the various models gave dramatically different answers. For instance, in calculating the impact of a monetary loosening on output some models estimated a 3% change in GDP after one year, and one gave almost no change, with the rest spread between.
Partly as a result of such experiments, modern central bankers no longer have as much confidence that it is possible to ‘fine-tune’ the economy as they had in the 1960s and early 1970s. Modern policy makers tend to use a less activist approach, explicitly because they lack confidence that their models will actually predict where the economy is going, or the effect of any shock upon it. The new, more humble, approach sees danger in dramatic policy changes based on model predictions, because of several practical and theoretical limitations in current macroeconomic models; in addition to the theoretical pitfalls.
The biggest danger to those who relied on the voodoo models came from the “law of unintended consequences”. Relying essentially on glorified guesswork, the visionaries risked driving off a cliff because they assumed they knew where they were going. Had they tapped their way forward they might have been better off. Yet such humility is too hard on persons accustomed to deference. In the end macroeconomists may have their little experiments. If they fail then they don’t win the Nobel Prize that year. What of the ordinary Joe? Well, if he speeds over the edge he might repeat the words that could come from Krugman — or from La Zonga — words that explain it all. “Let go over a cliff, die completely, and then come back to life – after that you cannot be deceived.”
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Many historians feel that the great Depression was extended because of the bold action of the Roosevelt administration in dealing with the crisis. Changes in policy on a number of fronts and sudden reversing of some of those policies only served to make the situation more complex and unpridictable. Business and consumers hate uncertainty and having another variable to deal with can be to much.
No one knows what the effects of Healthcare reform, financial reform or cap and trade will have on respective markets. Uncertainty increases and confidence wanes.
We have an example of the kind of Policy’s Mr. Krugman advocates it’s called Argentina circa Juan Peron.
The strange truth at work here is that the worse things get around the world, the more people will move their moveable (i.e. financial) assets to the United States. This means that as our fiscal policy continues throwing hard earned, forcibly extracted money down the political drain – dragging the rest of the world back into recession – rich people around the world will continue to flee to the “safety” of the US markets.
And this sentiment is not entirely irrational. Our system, for all of its faults, is still the only true vanguard of anti-feudalism in the world. Like a bacterial infection that you can’t quite shake, no matter what antibiotics you throw at it, the feudal order keeps trying to re-assert itself.
But the American people will not go quietly into the night. We will not allow a ruling class – no matter how smart, handsome, witty, well-dressed, urbane, and tasteful – to undo the American Revolution. We will remain free, and the rest of the world knows this.
And is counting on it. Wherein lies the real danger. If the wealthy around the world continue to lend money to The Most Profligate Government in History™, and if this lending accelerates as the macroeconomic environment worsens, then we are setting ourselves up for an enormous meltdown.
So we cannot, we will not, allow this to happen. We will throw the bums out, and fix their damage.
Which means that the court jesters and court scientists and court composers and courtesans will not be allowed to win the day. Rather, the American people will rise up and reassert their power over their government. As Scott Rasmussen aptly puts it, we do not want to be governed by Democrats, we do not want to be governed by Republicans – we want to govern ourselves. So we will not allow the political class to win the day. We will reassert our sovereignty.
And thereby save the world from destruction.
Again.
L3
Rick Santelli knows we have spent too much.
We also know that it was spent in all the wrong places, namely on those most deeply implicated in precipitating the meltdown.
If the first trillion had been “spent” (ie returned to) on taxpayers proportional to the amount they paid in taxes we would not find ourselves in this situation.
Instead, the money was given to the miscreants and crooks, and lo and behold, they did not use it for the public good.
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Saying one thing when we mean a mother. Another.
…psychiatrists don’t fire patients — not at $300 per session. Voters, on the other hand, positively relish it.
All of this is a little unfair, of course. A president who spent his entire working life in either a crackpot left-wing nonprofit or a law school — although when you say it like that, it’s hard to tell the difference — couldn’t be expected to know anything about the complexities of deep-water drilling, the physics of oil under pressure, the trajectory of an oil slick as it slimes its way to shore.
So, yes, it’s easy to imagine that there’s been a bit of the college seminar going on there, in the Oval Office.
But why so defensive? Or, as we might have scribbled in our notebooks as President Obama took his place on the couch: “Patient v. v. defensive re: lack of oil knowledge. Ego bruise? Anger due to inflated sense of self vs. inability to stop oil leak? Anger due to sense of self under fire from oil leak, voters, etc.? Sense that like college seminar, he is all talk, no action?”
All of which is accurate. And all of which seems to be what voters are thinking.
Especially when he added, gratuitously, that he wanted to know “whose ass to kick,” when everyone knew that what he really meant was “whose ass to sue,” which doesn’t sound very butch.
It’s been said that the Deepwater Horizon oil spill is Obama’s Katrina, but that’s really not accurate. It’s Obama’s “Message: I care” moment. It’s when he started to read the stage directions.
A brilliant actor once told me that the hardest thing to play is drunk. And then he told me how to do it.
You play not drunk. You don’t play a guy weaving and slurring and bumping into stuff. You play a guy consciously, deliberately, carefully not doing any of those things. The way you indicate how immensely incapacitated you are, in other words, is to act super, super sober, to declare, in other words, that not only are you not drunk, you’re the opposite of drunk. Which just makes you seem incredibly drunk.
Audiences find this hilarious.
Voters, well, we shall see.
#2 Paladin
And we have an example of a better policy – America circa Ronald Reagan.
Not that Reagan was a deficit hawk, but his policies recognized the importance of nurturing the private sector rather than trying to supplant it.
Tax cuts add to the deficit. So does the hiring of SEIU members to dig holes and fill them back in. However, these two policies have radically different impacts on the economy.
Today: DUBLIN—Ireland officially exited recession as gross domestic product grew 2.7% in the first quarter, the Central Statistics Office said … WSJ http://goo.gl/FtuB
Richard Lubbock:
You remind me, the NY Times also had an article on Ireland as well as Mother Jones.
Who copied whom?
“Tax cuts add to the deficit.” Only when not accompanied by spending cuts. It’s becoming clear that without deep spending cuts, no amount of tax hikes on January 1, 2011, will make a dent. If you took 90% of the income of everyone making $200,000 it still wouldn’t make a dent in the deficit. Cut, cut, cut. Tora, tora, tora.
HHS and other domestic agencies have seen a doubling (and sometimes more) of their budgets under Obama. Entitlements have skyrocketed. These bloated costs will expand further when healthcare reform gets underway and the infrastructure starts being laid down for full nationalization. Money and bureaucratic/regulatory structures are being funded even before their mission is completely known. I’ve heard advertisements (public service announcements?) by HHS, for example, hawking free mortgage counseling services in multiple languages. In other words, they’ve expanded so fast, they have to drum up business by spending more money on commercial advertising! Another example: Hilda Solis and her exhortations to illegal labor about their rights, beckoning them to come in and help her sue business-owners who are cheating them out of their rightful returns. In such hard times, why is this kind of money being spent?
For Krugman or anyone to argue for more deficit spending is insane. He can posit that any future disaster will be the outcome of America not doing what he said it should do, and I can posit the opposite with equal vehemence. Of course, the difference is that I would be right. : )
A great drag preventing businesses from investing is all the uncertainty visited upon us by the Dems in the form of “comprehensive” transformations of our economy, from Obamacare, Cap and Trade, Mindless Spending, Nationalization of Industries, and etc.
The failure of macroeconomic actions in the Great Depression led to World War II, in which many millions were killed, to say nothing of the vast misery caused by the Depression itself.
I believe somewhere in the Beltway, the trade off was made between the cost of WWIII and instead the cost of bringing China into the world market. The Chinese were allowed to grossly undervalue their currency rather forced to adjust gradually through trade and exchange to engage them in the market rather than to engage them in war. The physical body count may have been lower, but the economic consequences may be just the same.
Spending is not the only issue. It is the control the govt now has and the threat of more control that has stopped regional and local banks from doing anything that would bring the Feds into their business. Banks won’t refinance homes because a change in the value of their assets will bring in the Feds who will then run their business. Businesses look at what happen to the auto companies and decide they will not do anything to get the interest of the Feds. Economic theory cannot predict how a power grab by the Fed will impact people who own and operate our businesses will respond. imhp until the public believes the power grab is over or rescinded they will be still in a holding pattern waiting for the nightmare to be over.
I heard, a long time ago, a one-liner about economists. An economist is someone who can, with uncanny accuracy, predict what is going to happen…yesterday.
The thing about Krugman’s advice is that it’s the exact same advice that a gambling addict has. Double down again and again and, eventually, you’ll win one game and make back all your losses and then some. The more you lose, the more you wager, the more you’ll win in the end. Santelli’s advice, to continue the gambling metaphor, is to cut our losses and walk away from the table while we still can, in other words what a responsible gambler does when he’s on a losing streak.
Even if there were the political will to do what Krugman wants, it would not be possible. We are in the process of stopping spending and borrowing at a personal level and are instead paying down debt and saving, those of us who produce anyway.
Everywhere I look, I see belt tightening. It’s like a hundredth monkey moment in which we’re back in Kansas again and realize the fields need haying and the pigs need slopping.
No amount of top-down monkeying around will change the fact that the party’s over and everyone knows it except that lady that thinks Obie is going to pay for her gas (and a few remaining useful idiots).
And the reason the macroeconomic gurus are mostly blowing smoke is that economies are organic. Predicting the future is like being trapped inside the sprout of a plant and trying to deduce what the final product will be. Which also would imply that what we are becoming is not random but already present, like the seed is the entire plant only in a different form.
My assumption, based on the aggregate evidence, is that what we are becoming is indelibly linked to freedom, that freedom is indelibly linked to love, and that materialism is antithetical to both.
Krugman? Stopped reading him years ago. Clinton administration, IIRC. The man still hasn’t grasped the first Law of holes.
Anyone who wants to do more of what isn’t working has serious issues.
Someone pointed out some years ago that African Witch Doctors have a better cure rate than do Western psychiatrists.
Perhaps that is as much because people have a need to think that witch doctors can cure them as it does that psychiatrists think they can.
Back around 2007 in two separate consecutive interviews on Fox News, Democratic politicians, one of who was Sen. Lieberman, said “It snowed in Washington DC today, and this is April. So if we can’t predict the weather any better than this then how can the Bush Administration predict what the economy will be in 5 or 10 years?” Not only this was a false comparison, but also it was the Democrats that believed the Global Warming prediction, for which short range weather predictions had far more relevance than they do for economics.
But perhaps the reason to believe Zonga or Al is that there are a lot more people like them than there are like Krugman, Keyes, Drum or Obama. Economists and at least one President seem to regularly make recommendations on a national level that they would not even consider emulating personally. Al and Zonga may do that too, but probably a lot less often.
This post is exactly why I favor lessez-faire policies. (Does anybody use that term anymore? Haven’t heard it in a while.) As far as the responsibilities of government in times of economic downturn, their efforts should extend to preventing starvation, disease, death, and disorder. Otherwise, do nothing. But first, government must retract it’s tentacles. Fannie, Freddie, the Fed, etc. Etc. Etc. All we know about the new financial reform bill is that it is writing the very nature of the next recession, even if we don’t know which chapter and verse will bring it about.
Agree that the problem goes beyond spending, but I don’t see predictability and confidence in the future on the part of businesses and investors being improved any time soon. Spending cuts, if the Congress is turned over this November, are doable, but this administration has until 2012 to upend the long-term planning and investment businesses have to undertake to grow and stay healthy. As long as no one knows the effects of healthcare reform regulations on employers, and no one knows how financial reform is going to work, or even what’s in those bills, that capital will stay on the sidelines, and there will be no real recovery. That’s the direct outcome of this administration’s policies, which are essentially a “boot on the neck” preventing the rise of a thriving, risk-taking, confident private sector.
That said, I think a flourishing, growing and creative economy can return. It’s “seeds” are waiting on the sidelines itching for release, waiting for a signal that their confidence in the solidity and predictability in our free way of life is justified. The America that built itself into a superpower for a century is still there, and these steps backward into the 1970′s can be reversed. America is still in an advantageous geostrategic position. We have two great oceans on either side, protecting us and providing avenues for power projection and commerce around the globe. We’re in temperate zones conducive to agriculture, and with room to grow and still-abundant natural resources. The potential, the raw ability to power up an economy, still resides in the America people, so the unchangeable factors in a nation’s prosperity and strength are still there. No government policy can take that away for very long. That’s what makes America the brass ring for predatory nations and groups envious to own it.
We’ve got a good thing going here, and it’s worth defending. (I know, preaching to the choir). It’s just going to take enough juice from the electorate to make a big change in November, as a small first step.
The college graduate returns to his alma mater 10 years later. He strolls into his econmics prof’s office and notices that year’s final exam on the desk. He says, “Why, professor, this is the same exam you gave us.” The prof says, “My boy, in economics the questions never change, only the answers do.”
Leo, thanks for that reminder.
Rosinante, your summary is as good as any. Utopian believers ALWAYS claim that their failed predecessors just didn’t try hard enough. (No matter the body count.) I’ll have to use that phrase now, “the first law of holes”. I like it.
The last time somebody on CNBC complained about the Regime, they went to the woodshed and didnt come back. Mr Santelli may be in trouble.
Rosinante:
Anyone who wants to do more of what isn’t working has serious issues.
There’s a word for that, isnt there?
I remember a piece on TV from late 1988. One of the major networks concluded that it was all over for the USA, we were doomed to a slide into mediocrity. The problem was the deficit. The basis for this assertion was a series of short interviews with Europeans as they sat in a sidewalk café. Very scientific. Three years later the Berlin wall had come down, the Warsaw pact broke up, we had Desert Storm, and the USSR disintegrated; things looked different then.
But what people comparing Reagan’s deficit spending with that of Obama fail to recognize two important facts.
One was the Reagan spending had a set goal: Win the Cold War. Then big cutbacks began.
The other was that Regan believed that by encouraging personal responsibility, individual initiative, enabling investments and attendant rewards, and generally getting the government the hell out of the way and off people’s backs that the national debt would become insignificant because of the growth of the economy.
The current crowd is spending with no end in sight, with the only objective to pay off their buddies and buy votes to keep them in power. And they want all that innovation, energy, and economic expansion, all right, but only if it is of the kind they specify and is applied in the manner they find acceptable – and the way they will do this is by putting more government on people’s backs. At best they are stepping on the accelerator and brakes simultaneously. At worst they are stepping only on the brakes, thinking which pedal they stomp on does not matter.
The massive cuts in government spending, government jobs and entitlements that are absolutely necessary right now, must be also accompanied with corporate, income and capital gains tax cuts and a massive deregulation. If the tax cuts and deregulation do not accompany the spending cuts, the economy will slide far deeper into depression, because the source of much of what is now private sector spending has been that same government spending, jobs and entitlements. Private sector stimulus in the form of tax cuts and deregulation is needed to offset that loss of government spending or the economy will really tank.
The markets, likely in the form of failed government bond auctions, will sooner or later force those spending cuts. The problem is that the people in charge now have no intention of cutting regulation or taxes. so we really are in a fix. Buraq and his crew are perfectly happy to wreck the economy. One only needs to look at their response to oil spill to see their level of concern for the people.
Here is a good WSJ piece on the uncertainties Obama has introduced into the economy:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704629804575325233508651458.html?mod=WSJ_Opinion_carousel_3
I am no economist, but I know that anyone with sense figures out his future expenses before committing himself to more. Obama is trying to sell everyone on an adjustable rate mortgage for the country, but most people have now understand the danger.
Let’s grant the Nobel prize winning Krugman his premise, that more money in the economy is the right objective.
Why must it come from the government – and where does the government get the money? Governments only get money through taxation – that is, taking it from private citizens. They can directly compel tax payments from private citizens or they can borrow from them through Treasury sales, thereby taking that money out of circulation.
What I don’t understand then, is why must the money pass through the hands of government to get back into circulation? Anyone who has studied a hard science understands that there are no perfectly efficient transfers of energy – there is always loss of some sort. This is the case in spades with wealth transfers that pass from private citizens to public coffers and then to the preferred recipients. Perhaps 20-40% of the wealth gets passed back, while the bulk of it gets burned off in bureaucratic heat and light.
What would happen if the Feds simply had an income tax Jubilee Year. In 2007, the IRS received about $1.1T in income tax revenues. What if for one year, no one paid income taxes and used that windfall to pay off debt, make capital improvements to their properties, invest in a new business, or really anything they wanted? At the end of the day, the government would still incur the $1T “stimulus liability”, but the efficiency of keeping the money in the economy would be much higher than previous stimuli.
I think this doesn’t happen, because once the people experienced this windfall, they would lose all interest in ever paying taxes and the givernment would lose power. It’s too bad, because that windfall would improve people’s optimism, reduce private debt burdens, and stimulate consumer demand.
Too simple?
The economics profession has a great stake in keeping itself alive. Imagine them all being wishy-washy about what to do – that would be cutting their own throats. Wretchard is right – it’s all about clearing your throat and confidently pronouncing your particular cure. And in a post common sense society, that’s what wanted.
Also, implied in the ‘this economist vs that economist’ talk is that there must be a path that will lead us out of the wilderness without much pain. I disagree. No matter the path chosen, there will be very serious ramifications. The basic law of economics, as I see it, states that the amount of pain is proportional to the profligacy that put us in this hole. The only question is intensity, length of time, and who suffers the most.
The assumption here is that the purpose of macroeconomics is to reliably predict, rather than to give plausible cover to politicians to do what they want to do (in this case, spend taxpayer money).
Similarly, the purpose of climate science was to provide plausible cover for the increase in government power and revenues (plus wealth for certain insiders) that “Cap & Trade” would have produced.
Physics describes the universe which operates under immutable laws. Economics tries to describe human behavior, which operates in a mixture of rationality, stupidity, whim, fear, ego and hubris. What economists dont understand is that the last part of the mix is what drives their scam.
When I was in school, economics was all about why people did what they did. Saw a Supply/Demand curve a few times but all that tried to do was explain price variability. Later I took a graduate course in monetary theory (whim – needed the hours). It was all symbolic logic and derivatives of unit-less graphs. At the end of the course, I think I knew less than I started with. (deflation defined) My son took a basic econ course last year. They now use numbers and calculus to say they can predict stuff. I doubt that.
Interest on the debt is right at $400 billions with current interest at around 4%. The total 2008 budget is 3500 billions. Inflation is nil. What happens to that if inflation goes to say 5%, pushing interest to say 8%? what do you call it when you borrow to pay the interest on the money you owe?
The Chinese are eventually going to get tired of the way we’re spending their money.
In terms of “fine tuning” the economy, the first thing you’d need to have is a goal. Tune it for what? What do you want it to be like?
Is the goal to have a robust and well off middle class? An economy of opportunity where hard work and perseverence virtually guarantees at least a reasonably nice life style? Where input roughly equates to output? Where the benefits are largely distributed and available to anyone that plays within the system?
Or is the goal to divert the vast majority of resources into the hands of a few? To empower certain groups (i.e. government union workers) at the expense of others? To concentrate wealth at spectacular levels into a small group of connected power brokers?
Needless to say, nobody in the Administration has spoken of a “goal” for their economic meddling, because if they were to do so honestly, of course it would be the second scenario. In which case, they are doing quite, quite well, thank you, and everything is going according to plan. Mr. Obama’s second Nobel prize, for economics this time, is already being engraved.
But who said Madame La Zonga should be modest?
Exactly. She’s not. That’s not her schtick, is it? “The future is X. To avoid it, pay me $$$$$ and I will cast a spell, and sell you an amulet.” No modesty in sight
Tipler, btw, with his book “The Physics of Immortality” and iirc some other stuff, dances on the edge of respectability his own self, so when it comes to modesty, um, whatever.
As to Krugperson, he’s just the running dog for the administration consensus. They have WANTED to “reignite” inflation in order to monetize the mortgage debt. They are shocked and dismayed that this has not yet occurred, in spite of – is it three trillion, or five, or more, that has already been dumped into the system since Feb 2008? And yet real estate continues to deflate, and if anything inflation in the larger economy is less than it’s been. So Krugperson’s moaning and ranting for more deficits is exactly caused by the FAILURE of these tools and theories to date.
Now, I am not saying that he is wrong. I note that wretchard his written carefully as well. Who can know? Deficit spending, when it does cause inflation, is a tax on capital, steals money out of your wallet. Heck, it monetizes the deficit as well. Who cares about a fourteen trillion dollar deficit, when we’ve made that the price of a loaf of bread? Wouldn’t we all be better off, if by that voodoo we monetized away the debt? That’s all that Mr. Krugperson wants, he must love us all very much. It taxes all those billions in capital that the Goldman Sachs boys paid themselves. I’m OK with that. It wipes away my retirement account. Oops.
But, what if you can deficit spend WITHOUT INFLATION? Why, you have one big honking golden goose, is what. And if you have *deflation*, and can spend magic money to re-inflate back to zero, why, … nirvana. Maybe even pearl jam. And so far, that’s what we’ve seen. Can it last?
Stay tuned, same bat-time, same bat-channel.
But, what is the Republicans’ solution(s) past this Nov 2010, assuming they are going to take back majority control? Assuming voters want the ObamaCare repealed, then what?
So far I haven’t heard anything constructive.
#30- There are no solutions- the money is spent, looking at the budget pie only a VERY small slice of it is discretionary spending-winging a guess, maybe 20% or so. All the rest is entitlement programs, defense, and interest. All we can hope for is a de-escallation of the Government burden on business, attended by a real rise in output-I am not holding my breath. Too bad the trillions spent on swindle-us, etc are gone…..
Agree completely with L3 that unfortunately the fates seem to align for BHO in that just about the time the most profligate liberal-progressive spender in American history becomes President and mouthpiece for the most profligate liberal-progressive Congress in American history, there is simultaneously massive demand for US public debt. I mean, that’s a pretty handy concordance, at least if you’re a Keynesian lib-prog who has a lot of expensive constituencies to pay off. No wonder Krugman is pulling his hair out, the T-bill yield is diving and we’re the belle of the sovereign debt ball, if you’re going to spend like a drunken sailor with hired money, at least hire it cheap.
The funny thing about that is the Austrians in the crowd will simply point to another bubble in sovereign debt that has been created ostensibly to assist the deflation of the last bubble in real estate. Is the best allocation of a sizable percentage of the world’s free capital investing in what amounts to an anti-capitalist venture like the Obama Administration? I don’t believe so. The real estate bubble has not really popped the way the dot-com bubble did, it’s simply been transitioned into a T-bill bubble.
Much like Wretchard’s analogy of driving off a cliff, the appetite for our debt may come to an abrupt end, much like “Mr. Creosote” of Monty Python’s The Meaning of Life. Krugman may be pointing out that the interest rates now are “wafer thin”, but the copious vomiting and eventual explosive disembowelment will closely resemble the economic effects of the Federal Government either defaulting or being forced to live within its means while servicing >100% GDP in debt. There is no way of knowing which bite will be the last, and catastrophically so.
I admire Nassem Nicholas Taleb for being in the economics field and finally saying, “We have no idea what is coming and we cannot predict it worth a flip.” I had a bit on an earlier topic about the dearth of Competence, while not applying to the entire economy this does seem to apply to a lot of financial people and economists. I have come to the conclusion that there is no way to tell if financial folks are competent. Meredith Whitney and Nouriel Roubini may have called the epic fail of 2007-8, but is this because they have more insight than others or because they have a preexisting set of biases and predispositions that happened to coincide with the shape of things to come? There is a place for being rational in rational systems, either someone is a good chemist or not, a good engineer or not. But given that and to Ms. McArdle’s point there are no commonly accepted hard-and-fast rules of macroeconomic behavior, rational analysis is difficult to come by. Chris Christie in New Jersey is really trying to push his state to a better model, but will the improvements fiscal conservatives expect will follow his efforts be swamped by nationwide stagnation? Even the data will be fuzzy because of the myriad of influences from every other part of the global economy. The SNR is not particularly high in practical economics.
I do agree with Krugman in one, narrow regard: he has his macroeconomic model of how the world works, and he is sticking by it. I think his model is a piece of crap, but I find myself doing the same thing from the Hayekian side. You pick your ground and you stand on it, and wait for whatever is going to happen to happen. I’ll go with reason as far as it can take me, but past a point if you’re going to keep walking when you run out of map you have to have faith.
23. vb said…
“Obama is trying to sell everyone on an adjustable rate mortgage for the country, but most people now understand the danger.”
We need ARMs control!
A peace treaty of sorts,
or treece peaty, as we once said as kids.
—
On a more serious note:
Look ahead, when interest on our National Debt is 12 percent, instead of 4 percent.
“Debt Service” becomes Debt Servitude.
I think the USA is going to end up like Japan in the 90s having successive governments doing the complete opposite economic policies.
Miyazawa – Stimulus
Murayama – Stimulus
Hashimoto – Abandon stimulus – Fiscal Discipline
Obuchi – Stimulus
Mori – Stimulus
Koizumi – Abandon stimulus – Fiscal Discipline
Keep going further into the 2000s and you’ll get the same policy patterns. Stimulus-abandon it-fiscal discipline. Now with the rise of the Kan administration fiscal discipline is again popular.
Basically what I’m trying to say is….pick a policy and stick with it.
I think that it can safely be said that Krugman is a head-up-his-ass fraud. We didn’t need this latest set of weird ruminations from him to conclude that, but it does seal the deal as far as I’m concerned.
30. always right said…
“But, what is the Republicans’ solution(s) past this Nov 2010, assuming they are going to take back majority control? Assuming voters want the ObamaCare repealed, then what?
So far I haven’t heard anything constructive.”
Less Government is…
Always Right.
—
Spy Case Right Out of Nelson DeMille’s “The Charm School”
This Russian spy case sounds like a Cold War novel.
Check Out Nelson DeMille’s Book: “The Charm School”
– Limbaugh
Allowing people to keep more of their own money, and encouraging, or at least not discouraging, saving is one factor that will allow more people to ride out economic downturns with some margin left when the good times come back.
36 Doug
Not trying to be ‘funny’, but exactly what ‘less government’ means hasn’t been spelled out by the oppositions yet.
People (Voters) have to know what part of their lives will be impacted by less public service (both federal and local), and therefore they need to take up which responsiblities themselves.
Waiting for ‘authorities’ to show up and solve their problems / mistakes due to their own choosing will no longer be working.
WHERE’S DRUDGE?
Wretchard, “Drudge” has disappeared from your sidebar. What’s up with that?
This situation is dominated by the interaction between the Federal Government – which voters control and understand to some extent, and the the monetary authorities, which the voters don’t understand or control at all.
The Federal Reserve is ultimately controlled by international markets (Gold, debt, equity, currency) who render their verdict every day. Politicians, voters and Rick Santelli have little to say about it.
The Federal Government is ultimately controlled by voters, who vary in mood and outlook based on their circumstance and the effectiveness of propoganda.
The two are connected this way: The Federal Reserve attempts to keep money creation within the bounds of productive capacity around the world. Since its job necessarily involves the flexing of great power, it is trusted to the extent is believed to be doing its job for its stated purpose, and not to some outside purpose. To put it simply, its supposed to serve the market, not the politicians. If it appears to be following politicians, trust is lost in its operations, and the dollar loses its value (which was all trust based anyway).
Since the Federal reserve wouldn’t tell anyone if it starts acting at the behest of politicians, the markets have to detect it by its actions. Specifically what they look for is the Fed printing money and then handing it to politicians to spend. When the Federal Reserve buys government bonds, the market has to decide – is the Fed doing this because it is necessary for the economy, or because the politicians want the money?
That question is answered by watching the politicians. Are the politicians spending money at a reasonable rate for constructive purposes, or are they just flexing muscles for power and fun?
Given this relationship, there is only one path forward which threads the needle. That is: Fiscal tightness and monetary looseness. Spending cuts and money printing. If the spending cuts are painful enough, the international markets will accept the money printing as necessary. It will be viewed as a reward for political discipline, rather than a “Get Out of Jail Free” card for the politicians.
In that sense, the average Joe and Jane have it right. Stop the spending. That will give room for the Fed to solve the remaining problem. If it works, it will be amazing, as Joe and Jane will solve the problem without understanding it.
My own (non-professional) guess is that a $800 Billion deficit and $800 billion of money printing per year for about 2 years will bring us back to a normal economy. But as Wretchard says, my made up econometric model is no better, and maybe no worse, than any other.
always right:
Many smaller government solutions are truly cost free to the rest of us.
Consider the 13 agencies bedeviling Louisianna, et al, with restrictions wrt to dealing with the blowout.
As in so many cases, less is simply more for everyone, except for the parasites.
You know, simple is not always right. Sometime sophisticated arguments are needed to really understand what is at work. For instance, any deep dive into the question of God will, necessarily, result in a very complex and dense exploration of things like ontology, eschatology, hermeneutics, epistemology, and sacramentality.
Why? Because the world really is complex. And, like the Mandelbrot Set, the closer you look, the more complexity emerges.
There are two reactions to this reality. The first, which is the approach generally taken by the Left, is to believe that only people with superior intellectual capability – people like, well, Nobel Prize-winning economist Paul Krugman – are able to make sense of it all. This results in the “cult of the expert” in which only those with bona fide credentials can speak on a subject. The rest of us must remain silent and submissive.
In other words, there are lords, like Barack Obama and Barney Frank, there are court magicians, like Paul Krugman and Jeffrey Sachs, and the rest of us are clod-hopping serfts.
The other reaction, which is that of the true conservative, is that the awareness of this complexity forces us to accept the limitations of intellect, and to fall back on traditional, time-tested, evolutionarily-selected, common sense ways of understanding. For instance, you can’t spend more than you can take in, you can’t borrow to finance current consumption, you can’t be paid more than the value you create for others, etc. And you don’t need a PhD or a Nobel Prize to know this.
In other words, the truth will set you free, and we are born to be free. Those who would try to subjugate us, no matter how fancy their arguments, or their coiffure, or their regalia, are not to be trusted.
Right now, the big question in my mind is how long before some alternative “risk free asset” (as if there were such a thing) emerges to compete with US Treasuries. When it does emerge, monetary flows will no longer be able to cover for our irresponsible fiscal policy.
Taiichi Ohno, the father of the Toyota Production System, once said that when you lower the water level, only then can you see the rocks in the river.
Of course, the other thing that happens is that the water starts flowing much faster. We had better design our boat accordingly.
Interesting times are coming
L3
L3
Taiichi Ohno, fwiw, was the designer of Camry Floormats.
Simpleminded is always right.
You just argue otherwise because you’re not.
OT- can some advise me on how to un-subscribe from the email notifications and daily digest?
Doug,
Taiichi Ohno, fwiw, was the designer of Camry Floormats.
Uh, not true. Ohno died in 1990, and was not a car designer. He was the father of lean thinking.
Simpleminded is always right.
I wish it was that simple. But history is filled with people who were simpleminded and wrong.
David Duke and Maxine Waters come to mind…
You just argue otherwise because you’re not.
My momma always said, “Simpleminded is as simpleminded does.”
And that’s all I have to say about that.
Cheers,
L3
There’s too much fear on this board right now.
Obama said up in Toronto last week that he would be calling the bluff of pubbies next year when as expected they take over congress. that is, obama wants to do spending cuts next year.(there’s a video of that around. i just can’t find it.)
because of changing tax laws a lot of 2011 profits have been freighted forward into 2010 which is why the stock market went up early in the year. for the same reason stocks will start cycling down from here to the fall in anticipation of lower profits in 2011.
According to Wikipedia the Tea Party Contract with america includes…10 items. I’ve listed the four least favorite agenda items.
first targets for the pubbies in 2011 will be Obamacare. likely all kinds of ways will be found to defund and defenestrate that bill in detail. likely too they’ll initiate an all of the above energy policy.
Likely too they’ll roll back the tax increases set to go into effect jan 1 2011 and reduce earmarks.
It doesn’t look to me like they’re going to directly attack any agencies directly like HUD or the Dept of Education. Rather they are going to set up committees to decide on the constitutionality of the of current and proposed agencies.
A lot of agencies will likely be named as NO GO but that process will be slow. further the pubbies won’t quite have the political power to do anything about it with O in the white house and only apubbie senate majority but not one that’s veto proof.
looking at the current tea party proposals–I don’t see anything that will result in an immediate draw down of federal deficits in 2011–which are currently caused mostly by falling revenues. its nice that they will be cutting earmarks but since most of the hole is caused by non discretionary spending when you look at the deficits–earmarks just don’t play that big a role in the really big numbers.
To be fair to Krugman, the reason we can’t run even larger deficits now is because we ran deficits when we should have had a surplus. When times are good governments should be saving money against the inevitable recession. That’s Keynesian thought. Run a surplus in good times and a deficit in bad times. We’ve been running a deficit in good times and bad, which limits what we can do with fiscal policy. Since Krugman is a neo-Keynsian as far as I can tell, this makes sense.
The problem for Keynsians is that we seem to have escaped the Great Depression because of WW2. Government spending and debt skyrocketed. How high did they skyrocket? In relation to GDP, to about the levels we are seeing today… In other words, in terms of government spending as a proportion of the economy we are already at WW2 levels.
So, what’s a Keynsian to do? We’ve already borrowed and spent more than we can afford, and we won’t be able to save money through a surplus when the economy does improve. We’re locked into too much entitlement spending for that to happen. What does Krugman want us to do? Inflate the currency? That’s all that’s left. Keynes was OK with mild inflation, but it seems to me we are kind of beyond that.
I’m willing to spread the blame for our mess to both parties. Krugman doesn’t seem to be willing to say the obvious: that Democratic spending on entitlements (including the health care bill) has neutered our governments ability to respond to economic depression via fiscal policy.
That’s what Keynes would say, it seems to me. You aren’t supposed to run deficits all the time.
The call for “stimulus” is purely political, based on the delight of receiving money and handing it out, without regard for the costs of borrowing it or taxing it from people.
Keynes offered a famous formula used by Liberal economists (eg. Krugman) today, showing how GDP is made up of Consumption, Investment, and Government Spending. He said that only government has the power to increase spending enough to raise GDP and end a recession.
If you are only a bit technically inclined, you can see in detail how the usual interpretation of Keynes formula is false and the claims of government economists are politically biased, even given their own flawed interpretation.
DIY Stimulus Policy
The Keynes Formula is true, but useless. It is like observing that a car’s speedometer accurately shows the speed, then forcing the pointer toward 50 MPH in an attempt to accelerate the car.
When things seem out of control it seems to me you are better served going back to basic concepts and common sense. For instance, and one of my pet peeves, why am I paying so much in taxes but receiving so little of what I am paying for? Are taxes a right of rule, such as the king’s due, or the cost of services rendered? Which leads to questions such as, If I have no children, why am I paying for public education? If the answer is for the common good, how does the embarrassingly poor performance of those educators (overall) justify my continued payment? Would you continue to frequent a dry cleaner that ruins your suits? Too simplistic? It seems to me if we go back to basics, such as individual responsibility, strict constitutional adherence and much smaller government, most of these problems fix themselves.
Economics, other than certain basic principles, is voodoo. At its essence it is all about human behavior, and human behavior does not tend to lend itself toward mathematical models. If you take a piece of iron, copper, or whatever, under the same conditions it will always behave the same. This is not so with human beings. The fundamental mistake of the “social sciences” is that they assume that the little cogs in the machine can all be resolved in the aggregate to little balls of iron or copper that will always act the same under identical circumstances, just like it does for the hard sciences. Anyone who believes this is an idiot.
The dynamics of the economy of any modern nation is, in mathematical terms, a complex system, extremely subject to the “butterfly effect.” Those who claim to have the ability to manipulate it to achieve a given state are frauds or morons with delusions of grandeur. Paul Krugman does come to mind.
Consider if you will the notion of the “rational actor.” The basic problem here is that to a truly “rational actor” they must take into account the fact that the other variables (people) in any social or economic equation may not be rational actors. Its the Prisoner’s Dilemma, but that is indeed what has fueled much of the economic problems we have today. Imagine there is no FDIC. You know that your bank is in good shape, but you hear rumors that it is not. Because you fear (rightly so) that many of the other depositors in the bank will act irrationally by withdrawing all their assets from the bank and thereby making it fail, the rational thing to do is withdraw all your assets from the bank first. The result being that the bank will fail. The rational thing to do is an irrational act.
The other problem with economic models is akin to the Heisenberg principle in quantum mechanics. If you do have a model that accurately predicts economic behavior people will start changing their behavior to gain benefit from the model, and this will in turn destroy the premises upon which the model was based. This is especially evident in regards to taxes. I think it was in Massachusetts that at some time the legislature figured out that they could get a big revenue stream by creating a huge Estate Tax. The result? Elderly people with substantial estates moved to other states. The revenue stream the scummy little politicians envisioned never materialized.
Models only work when the variables upon which they are based are known or can be assumed to fall within a given range. Sorry, but when you are talking about human beings that just doesn’t work.
“Social Science” is a filthy oxymoron practiced by filthy morons. They are indeed our modern equivalent of witch-doctors.
It brings to mind the biblical injunction: “Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.”
Just kidding. Really.
There are 2 types of jobs. Real jobs and government jobs. Real jobs provide something useful that keeps the economy going. Government jobs are jobs that are paid for with taxes because a goverment worker does nothing that any one would actually pay money for.
An economy can survive when there is one government worker supported by 10 people with real jobs. 10 people can even support 2 government jobs. But if you add on more government jobs you destroy the economy. That is why too much government spending causes an economic crash. When the people with real jobs have lost their jobs, giving them government jobs just makes things worse because 10 people with real jobs can’t support 10 people with government jobs let alone a 100.
The only way to end unemployment and restore economic health is to give everybody a real job. The government can’t give people real jobs. Only people with real jobs can give other people a real job and only if they make a profit when they do that.
There is one way that government can give unemployed people a real job. FDR did it. Hitler did it. Stalin did it. Hussein did it. Start a war. If enough people with real jobs die – or if enough unemployed die – then there may be enough real jobs left to employ all those who are still alive.
There is another way. Fire the people with government jobs and cut the taxes paid by people with real jobs. When profits go up, working capital increases and more people get hired and soon everybody has a job.
Also when government workers get fired, there is no one left to make rules that keep people from making profits. For example, if we fired all the enviromentalists, the oil spill and the beaches and the marshes would be cleaned up in a few days because there would be no one making rules screwing things up.
If we fired all the government job holders whose job is to tell us what we can’t do, we would all be free to do our jobs right and get obscenely rich because everybody would have a real job.
When Obama says “You can’t have bankers making rules for bankers” what he is really saying is “You can’t have people making the laws that govern themselves”. If you believe Obama –welcome to the Depression. If you reject Obama — welcome to the American Way. America is the home of the Exceptional.
In the late 1980s a research institute compared the twelve top macroeconomic models available at the time.
At the beginning of the Obama Administration I would tell Democrat friends that his program would not work and I would say, “You don’t need a fancy econometric model to figure this out — a knowledge of arithmetic will do. They are subtracting money and resources from the Private sector and adding it to government, where it will cost more and produce a lot less.”
I’ve made a number of predictions in the comment section at the Belmont club. Here’s one from the Beginning of May, 2009 (The Press had just celebrated the One’s One- Hundredth Day). The “attack on hedge fund managers” refers to the Chrysler bond holders, who had their money seized.
Here it is, from May 10, 2009:
Fortunately for the Obama Administration they can, with the help of the press, blame all the recent job losses on the Bush Administration. And with so much slack in the economy they can create a “recovery” through massive deficits and spending increases. But actually, it will be a credit funded Fling rather than a recovery. In this situation it will be the job of the press to both blame joblessness on Bush and to point out that a jobless recovery is both unavoidable and not so bad (we are switching over to a green economy; People have more time to spend with their family and return to school for new skills like grant proposal writing; we are laying a stronger foundation etc).
Even before the November (2008) election small and mid-sized companies began acting on their fears of what Washington will be like with the left Democrats in power — basically by shedding workers and inventory and shelving plans for future investment. The turn towards Crony Capitalism in the first few months could only verify the fears. The attack on hedge fund managers by Obama was bad all by itself. But the targets were, by and large, his supporters and a big source of campaign cash for Democrats. This tells us “protection” will indeed be costly. Still, look for the Democrats to channel some “make good money” toward these hedge funds from the government TARP funds. In a sense, the media splash Obama caused gave the hedge funds cover for turning over their investor’s money to the UAW — another strong supporter of the Democrats. A little “make good money” should keep these managers on board with both the party and the fling.
But small and medium firms know they will not be able to play at the billionaire level. They will have to pay more “protection money” to the politicians, to be sure, but they won’t get much protection. The cost of credit will likely go up, so they won’t be planning new investment. The government may force unions on them and legislate pay raises so they won’t be doing much hiring. Huge portions of the economy will be targeted by liberal Democrats for “change” and these sectors will be even more gun shy. And of course, they all face large tax increases.
Still, with Trillions of dollars spent on the “fling” it should produce something like a recovery — which might even look robust for three or four quarters while the considerable slack in economy is taken up. This may well get the Democrats through 2010. But they will need a lot of help from the press in shaping the narrative, since unemployment will be high. As long as it is coming down, however slowly, they should succeed.
But there may be another problem. With the uncertainties that small and medium sized firms face, they may actually shrink capacity. A year from now they might be dealing with Union Organizers, New health and safety requirements and a raft of new regulations. So if you can shed workers and cut costs while raising prices, that might be an attractive short term proposition — one that the massive fiscal stimulus of the fling economy makes possible. If enough businesses make this decision at the same time, the hang over from the Obama Fling will arrive quickly in the form of high inflation and high unemployment in a shrinking economy.
Even large corporations might well stay on the sidelines to see which way the political winds will blow. One of the costs of Crony Capitalism is that the risk premiums for investments go up. The more investors worry about expropriations, the quicker the investment has to pay off and the more sure the returns need to be. To keep “the fling” from producing inflation, investors have to invest. The US may be losing a lot of its glow.
The stimulus trillions might act like economic crack: we’ll need to keep taking it — and more of it — just to keep total depression away (in this scenario we will, of course, fail). It will be interesting to see the press spins that. How long will they keep the nation in denial?
End of Predictions Past.
I think I was pretty close, though nominal inflation has remained low (though by some calculations it is on its way up) — in part because the “fling” has turned into a fizzle. I think the Democrats wasted the “fling” — what I sometimes call The Recovery Bubble — by stimulating too much government. At least building bridges and roads can produce good benefits to the economy.
I don’t know that the TARP funds were used for “make good” money for the hedge fund managers. But does anyone know what the tarp funds were used for? Still, those guys stopped squawking mighty quick.
SV/51; well said, well said –one small example, in Norfolk right now is a Dutch ship that can skim up as much spilt oil in a day as 80% of all the gulf efforts have skimmed to date since the April 20 event. What is it doing tied up in Virginia? Still, on Day 70, and with NO end in sight, being inspected, retrofitted, permitted, jingle-jangled, nik-nak-patty-wakked, very slowly, by the EPA. repeat, by the E*P*A*.
Yes, the taxpayers are paying to make the spill as bad as possible. But, this will teach us a lesson, don’t you see, not to produce oil, or anything else that might interfere with kollapsnik-ism.
The house just passed Finreg –just wait til we put the gov’t in control of the financial industry –we ain’t seen NUTHIN yet. “The die is cast,” says barney frank, who did so much to manufacture the particular crisis that required the barney frank bill. Hold onto yer trousers, who knows what the new regs not yet writ will require to get a loan.
Mr Larson at 53: State has been patting it self on its rather broad back for accepting “22 Offers of Aid” from countries trying to help. This PDF shows 3 accepted, as of 29 June. The rest are “under consideration” Who are the blowing smoke on? Does accepted mean they got the phone call? Its been 10 weeks for Gods sake!
I call BS
Press release here: http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2010/06/143771.htm
source: http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/143488.pdf
Constant meddling in the economy is the single biggest curse of Central Planning.
Central Planning is top down arbitrary control(s) to effect the infantile desires of the chattering class/ powers that be.
The distorted feed-back that occurs when the Market is tossed over cripples real efficiency step-wise throughout the economy.
The oil fiasco is a perfect example of all power flowing to Central.
——-
Weak executives take the path of least resistance.
So I expect the Resident to print, print, print. It is plain by study of the Treasury Bill auctions that a hefty hunk of the funds come from the Federal Reserve’s electronic money printing machine.
The problem with this ‘solution’ is that such a liquidity addiction always ends in a cliff-function.
Hyperinflation is that state triggered by foreigners rejecting currency exports. Legal tender laws compel the citizen-victims to stay in the debased fiat. Once the international market turns against the Obamination of the USD the descent gains tempo exponentially.
Right now it’s very apparent that Russia and China have had it with the USD. Gold purchases by central banks is taking off. Moscow is trying to launch a dollar alternative! It’s gold, of course, with perhaps a smidgen of other currencies.
The dollar colossus is so immense that should the Resident destroy it the impact will be really too great to imagine.
—–
The bottom line for all of the mature economies is that their productive years are not great enough to support their retirement years and the regeneration of the young.
This is most pronounced with government woman-power, but it doesn’t stop there.
Women live longer than men — but retire at the same ages, maybe less. Hence their draw during retirement is outsized.
Government woman-power is slotted in positions that typically have no private industry benchmarks for compensation. Top of the list would be teachers whom don’t consider any private teaching enterprise to be equivalent to their troubles.
Another woman’s cohort is nursing. Even though most nurses are nominally in the private sector — they’re funded largely by government and union plans with big business. ( Businesses that typically operate on a crony capitalist model.)
So what you have is a massive block of highly educated, motivated women who fully understand where their butter is coming from.
Notably these groups are feeling no pain during this mancession. They also face no competition from illegal-immigrants — instead they are regarded as a needy clients who need mothering.
The contrast with construction workers — overwhelmingly male — is stark: massive unemployment, chronically falling wages for decades. A classic route up from the bottom is now shut down for high school graduates — and those without a degree.
——
It is false to think that the critical jobs are all going to China. The real killer is the jobs that are being killed by the computer chip. Look at the integration within today’s laptops. Now remember all of the chip sets that have collapsed into one.
The same thing is happening across design and manufacture. As robotics steps out of the factory more and more grunt jobs must go.
This brings us to a real social dilemma. What is to become of the less intellectually gifted as their economic utility goes from marginal to a dead loss?
Care of the elderly may be that solution.
Buddy 53:
I beg to differ. The super skimmer was dancing the hokey pokey with the EPA. Knick Knack Patty Whack is the signature of the Justice Dept. It’s clear you have not spent too much time dealing with DC. I on the other hand have spent way too much time dealing with DC.
Blert #55: “What is to become of the less intellectually gifted as their economic utility goes from marginal to a dead loss?”
I have thought about this. How about we have them build pryamids?
Waiting for O’Godot*.
…-
“The end of North American trilaterism
Harmonization was once all the rage, but under Obama the initiative appears dead”
http://www2.macleans.ca/2010/06/29/the-end-of-the-trilateral-dream/
(*H/T Samuel Beckett)
b/55; excellent –and exactly why not only does world cop need USD as world money, but world money needs world cop as value hold.
***
what overdone regs do is discount a company’s main asset, its hard-won activity-knowledge, by devaluing its problem-solving work. you can’t solve your own problem without including an agent of the government, a cost rationalized as a “no fine assessed” benefit.
RWE/56; “pryamids’ –i guffawed a lit Marlboro at my monitor
Krugman is a rat trapped on a spinning wheel. He’s smart enough to know it, too, and he’s also smart enough to know what his proposed bromides really mean: he intends to rob you blind.
The problem, you see, is that we aren’t spending our money right, and we’re reluctant to take on new mortgages, new car loans, new credit cards, etc. right now. This is a disaster for guys like Krugman and the solution to this is simple: he wants to spend your money for you. That’s the plan, even though it doesn’t look like he’s suggesting any kind overtly confiscatory scheme like taxation, he’s suggesting exactly that. But through the back door, through the mechanism of the Federal Reserve and debt financing. We all see the words “debt” and “borrowing”, and make assumptions, then decry “What are we doing to our grandkids?” to no avail. But make no mistake, this debt financing is not simply something kicked down the road to the grandkids, it also has an effect on you now, today. That’s because the majority of the borrowing isn’t borrowing at all, it’s the creation of brand new dollars by La Zonga-type magic at the Fed and at the banks. Those new dollars are coming into existence in a world that already contains the dollars in your pocket, and it has an effect on them.
Our finances are one big Ponzi scheme, and there can be no talk of the federal government getting out of debt and so forth. It can’t, it cannot ever get out of debt under the current system. I’m not saying that it could be possible to get out of debt given sufficient political will and responsible govt and so forth. No, I’m saying that under the current fiat currency system the federal government can not, ever, at any time, get out of debt. It cannot afford even to pay down debt during a downturn like this, although this at least possible given sufficient political will. You have to understand what a dollar is: it IS debt, and as the federal government pays off its bonds it destroys dollars. That leaves one tool in the shed: more debt fuelled pump-priming.
It’s either that or we overhaul our currency system, and rats like Krugman shudder at the thought. It’s far easier just to rob us blind.
blert @ 55: It is false to think that the critical jobs are all going to China. The real killer is the jobs that are being killed by the computer chip.
But if all the *remaining* jobs go to China …
(just had a job interview today, with all Indian guys. nice enough guys, and I guess they liked me, but even so, …)
Cowboy @ 60: I hear you on all points, but quibble with a couple. Krugperson wants to spend all our money, but surely he’s done the math – that isn’t *enough* money to get us back even. So, he’s just another ankle-biting rabid yorkie. And no doubt fiat currency is easier to abuse, but in the history of the world, rules have managed to abuse whatever systems of currency they had. No silver, or gold, bullets.
Slightly, but only slightly OT:
Today I went to three markets, two drug stores, and two home improvement stores looking for table top sized American Flags with which to decorate the border of our lawn. There were none for sale. The only flag available was in one of the home improvement stores, and that one was made in China.
Of course I have my own US made American and Gadsen flags, as well as a whole collection of historic ones — all made in the USA. We know the economy is bad and that our standing in the world is on the decline.
But is the absence of available flags in local stores on the eve of Independence Day (July 4, as it is commonly called) a warning that America is now on palliative care?
This is going to be another Third Recession, because of the same sort of progressive/communist/fascist government policies that caused the earlier recessions. Deal with it.
buddy larsen #53
Hold onto yer trousers
Always a good idea (for the guys at any rate) when dealing with Bawney Fwank.
Good to know this house is alive and well. At least I do not have to fear for the Belmont Club.
Anyone else waiting for Hari Seldon to show up?
#62 batman
I don’t know where you’re located, but Annin & Co. has a search option to find retailers in all states plus Puerto Rico.
“Annin certifies that its American flags have been made in the USA of materials that are domestic in origin and that all processes in every step of its manufacture were completed in USA facilities with USA labor.”
Interesting tidbit on the home page: “It was an Annin flag that flew at the inauguration of President Zachary Taylor, starting an inaugural tradition that has continued through the inauguration of President George W. Bush.” No mention of Teh Won’s inauguration.
http://www.annin.com/
People (politicians in particular) forget how much of ruling depends on the compliance of the ruled. Krugman and many of the lefties take as a given that Americans are sheep to be herded as they see fit. In our system legitimacy is generally conferred by votes and elections. But ours is a federal system. Legitimacy is also conferred by the states.
There has been frequent talk of secession or a new civil war, all of which I believe is silly. But as our friend VDH has written victory doesn’t necessarily go to those who appear to have the advantage. It often goes to those who sense a foe’s true weakness and who wait for the proper time to exploit it.
Today none of the 50 states have a military force to defeat the Feds. They never will. But they don’t need one. They only have to effectively challenge the legitimacy of the federal system. They can challenge this in two ways. One, they can say they don’t want any more Federal money and will make their decisions irrespective of any monetary carrots. By itself that won’t work. Two, they can say to their citizens, don’t comply with federal tax laws. That will work. As demonstrated during Prohibition no government can enforce laws unless there is fundamental agreement from the population.
Now, there are problems with this scenario. If Vermont does this, who cares? They’ll be squashed. Many businesses (especially the big corporations) won’t play. But there are scenarios where it is viable and it doesn’t take a majority, just enough to delegitimize the system. Some states may be inspired to independence if Germany dumps the Euro. States which send more tax money to Washington than they get in return may find it attractive. For example, New York or California could make a deal with their public employees unions to take the tax money not sent to Washington and use it for their own purposes. States along the Mexican border could coordinate and refuse Federal funds and restrictions. Even without the states a nationwide refusal to pay tax would have the same effect. Just as supply lines are critical to an army an uninterrupted cash flow is to the Feds.
Now, this is pretty unlikely. But isn’t that the nature of Black Swans? In many ways such acts could be seen as excessively costly, even self-destructive. But as VDH has also documented stupidity, pride, stubbornness and sheer luck have often determined the outcome of pivotal events (i.e. Salamis, Midway et al). My point isn’t to advocate this as a solution. My point is that we have leaders so cavalier in their political and economic assumptions that they are wasting the good will and forbearance of American citizens. My fear is at some point people and states may be desperate enough to see my scenario as a reasonable option.
Praise God and the Founders for regular elections.
If I may venture a thought…
Krugman’s basic idea that we need to goose economic activity lest we fall into a liquidity trap is not crazy. Don’t know if he’s right or wrong, but we are in really uncharted territory and no one knows the answer.
But I would suggest that what we need is to stimulate (that word!) economic activity that lays the groundwork for future growth; in other words, investment. Not the bogus “investment” that politicians talk about, which is just inefficient, wasteful spending targeted at their favored constituencies, but actual investment, as in, enhancing assets that will produce positive net earnings and cash flow into the future.
We can run deficits if the deficit is used to enhance our capital stock and productivity so that the deficit pays for itself in the long run.
Tax cuts do not, as a rule, pay for themselves… the Laffer curve only does that in very special circumstances, most notable very high marginal rates where reducing teh rate brings economic activity out of teh shadows to where it is recognized and taxed. That was somewhat the case in teh 1970s when the top income tax rate was 70%, but it is for the most part no longer tha case.
WHAT WE SPEND ON is key. And in that sense, I suggest we need tax reform to encourage the private sector to make real sustainable investments, and govt has to stop doing things that destroy economic value, which is an unfortunately large part of what government does. If we reduce taxes in such a way that teh current deficit grows, but unleashes a burst of solid investment in teh future, that deficit can be a good thing… it’s just like a companyt borrowing to buy a piece of equipment that will produce a surplus to repay the loan, plus profit.
The trick is not the govt deficit per se, it is what we, as a $14T economy, spend on… do we spend on things that produce future returns, or do we spend on current consumption without even covering depreciation, or do we (the govt) spend on things that actually destroy value, like some of the crazier environmental and OSHA regs, most of the Dept of Education, and so on.
A deficit in the $300-500B range should be more than stimulative enough for Krugman’s purposes, if we stop doing destructive tyhings and encourage, through tax and regulatory policy, real private sector investment in creating future value.
Novanglus and BobInWA, the problem is that the federal government doesn’t really need income tax revenue. It could structure things so that taxes would not be necessary to fund the government. Believe it or not, this was actually done before, here in the United States, when the state of Alabama set up its own central bank in the 19th century and did away with all state taxes of every stripe. That inspired Mississippi to try the same thing. It worked great, until it didn’t, and the whole thing blew up horribly, of course. (aside for the Texan bros: This episode led to the accounting entry “GTT” denoting debtors who flee and disappear. GTT is shorthand for “Gone To Texas”.)
Today half of Americans do not pay federal income tax at all. Or, rather, they pay “negative” taxes, that’s a good one (like the “negative” interest rates being discussed now). Taxday is a payday for many, instead. Already the tax code behemoth is showing itself to be a tool of social and electoral policy moreso than a financial one. Law schools today training tomorrow’s tax attorneys and legislators are governed by a philosophy that touts the code precisely for its value as an instrument for “social justice.”
Nope, Congress has discovered the intoxicants of easy money and ever-ready credit that central banking can supply to it like smack or crack cocaine. And as long as folks in the hypothetical tax-revolting states are trading in dollars the feds have got them by the gonads.
The Federal Reserve is the worst thing that ever happened to this country, that grand, progressive scheme to lash our collective future to their vision of good governance, capably administered by technical experts. Such as Greenspan, Helicopter Ben, Turbo Tax Timmeh, and Krugman! Hahaha!
Regretfully, I see no evidence that the mass of the American people think this way. O’s approval ratings are still in the 40-50 percent range, roughly speaking. Conservatives (not Republicans) can’t even muster more than a handful, relatively speaking, at the Tea Parties, never mind “million man marches”. I don’t see any chance of throwing the court jesters and court scientists and court composers and courtesans” as you so aptly put it out – it just isn’t going to happen for the simple reason that to do so would be revolution, pure and simple. They ARE our government now! We are nowhere near even a revolution at the ballot box, much less any other kind, nowhere near. And O and his accolytes know this and are counting on it.
Put another way – I am not currently seeing anything other than indications that we really ARE sheep.
————————————
LL3 “But the American people will not go quietly into the night. We will not allow a ruling class – no matter how smart, handsome, witty, well-dressed, urbane, and tasteful – to undo the American Revolution. We will remain free, and the rest of the world knows this.
And is counting on it. Wherein lies the real danger. If the wealthy around the world continue to lend money to The Most Profligate Government in History™, and if this lending accelerates as the macroeconomic environment worsens, then we are setting ourselves up for an enormous meltdown.
So we cannot, we will not, allow this to happen. We will throw the bums out, and fix their damage.
Which means that the court jesters and court scientists and court composers and courtesans will not be allowed to win the day. Rather, the American people will rise up and reassert their power over their government. As Scott Rasmussen aptly puts it, we do not want to be governed by Democrats, we do not want to be governed by Republicans – we want to govern ourselves. So we will not allow the political class to win the day. We will reassert our sovereignty.”
#55 Blert – “This brings us to a real social dilemma. What is to become of the less intellectually gifted as their economic utility goes from marginal to a dead loss?”
They pick up their weapons, because they’ve got to eat. They’re not stupid – and they’re not serfs, that’s the problem. It’s not that they’re less intellectually gifted at all – they really do understand what to do and who to do it to.
To LLIII’s #3,
Exactly right. Which is why I think Obama is busy scaring that money back to Europe on purpose. Or to Brazil. Or to China. Or to South Africa. Anywhere but my country ’tis of thee.
Remember…Obama is Dominique DeVillepin in black-face. His fealty is to Europe’s courts and Napoleonic accretions. C’est tous!
And, as even DeVillepin’s fawning suitor at the nyt, Paul Krugman, probably knows, in order to restrain Europe’s own minting impulses Europe’s domestic banks and bourses require euro-holders to reinvest their euros in euro-land. It’s the only option they have to avoid crippling inflation and systemic Euro-default. But, given all we know about Europe’s economy, who in the hell’d invest there right now? And in what, Euro-land’s heavily subsidized Airbus? (They’d do better throwin’ their money at government-run Amtrack, for chrissakes!)
It’s no secret that as early as 1999 Europe’s financial capitals were aware of the trajectory the PIIGs were traveling. But, rather than urge the derelicts to change course, they encouraged them instead to harbor their leaky crafts in D’Estang’s “circle of stars.” And then, free to frolic in denial, they schemed-up the “Green Con.” And look at what these geniuses came up with: “The Kyoto Accords I and II,” “Copenhagen,” “Cap-and-Trade,” and their accessory alarmism(s), all crafted to put America’s energy users on the hook for Europe’s fiscal frivolities.
Diabolical, huh? The Davos-set (Gore, Kerry, Clinton et al) litigated election 2000, “hated” Bush, sold us “Green,” and protested Operation Iraqi Freedom all for the same reason. Their Euro-patrons knew they would need the money before 2002, but Bush’s win threatened to delay the shakedown for another crucial eight years.
And so, if you can imagine that capital is like water sloshing around in a bathtub, then you can picture a sodden Obama paddling feverishly to keep a rising tsunami of German, Dutch, French and Italian money from flooding America’s markets. And you’ll gain some insight into his priorities (Universal Healthcare?) in the Oval Office.
“Our goal is not to punish the banks but to protect the larger economy and the American people,” says President Barack Obama. How can he say this, when the bankers — who should know their business better than anyone — warn of disaster?
The anointed know better, of course. The banks aren’t allowed to learn from the experiences of the past. They are not permitted to evolve and adapt independently. They must now be subjected to a new government bureaucracy, according to the metaphysic of the anointed. In this arrangement, the logic of the anointed is simple: Those with a vested interest cannot be trusted with economic decisions. The free market and those who “dominate” the market must be subordinated to those who will decide economic questions in favor of “the larger economy.” Here is the Soviet ideal, in a nutshell. Economic actors motivated by profit cannot be trusted. Only government agents and commissars can be trusted. If you own a business, you are automatically a shady character who places your own economic interests ahead of others — and this cannot be tolerated. The prospect of profit is corrupting, and the free market needs a pair of cuffs.
The anointed commissar holds a whip over the bankers and capitalists. If they seek profit, they will hear the crack of the whip. And who is this genius, this saint, this overseer, who holds the whip? Quite naturally, the markets have taken fright. The anointed have placed their fingers around the neck of the goose that laid the golden egg, and they are preparing to squeeze. Stock prices are falling around the world. The anointed say that the goose’s neck must be wrung.
But aren’t the anointed worried about the consequences? According to [Thomas] Sowell, the anointed feel no accountability because they are not creatures of the market. They are creatures who were nurtured in academia, insulated from truth and consequences (like Karl Marx, for example, who never worked a day in his life). If the anointed have faulty economic thinking, their business doesn’t collapse. They don’t live by producing anything tangible, after all. Their business has been to colonize the political class. As Sowell points out, “the steady encroachment of policies, practices, and laws based on the notions and ideologies prevalent among the intelligentsia has steadily narrowed the scope of the freedoms traditionally enjoyed by ordinary people to run their own lives, must less to shape government policy.”
And so, you may ask, what is the ruling metaphysic of our time?
***
(snip from a recent nyquist)
http://www.financialsense.com/stormwatch/geo/pastanalysis/2010/0521.html
“I’ll have to use that phrase now, “the first law of holes”. I like it.”
Your welcome to it. I stole it a while back. I forget who from which is why I didn’t quote it. There was a second Law of Holes too, but I don’t remember what it was. Getting old sucks. I wouldn’t bother if the alternative didn’t suck worse.
I googled and it seems someone named Denis Healey gets the credit. I can honestly say I have never heard of him.
“First law on holes – when you’re in one, stop digging.”
Denis Healey
I have no sympathy for the banks after the last five years, they deserve extensive new federal limitations and regulations far more draconic than this 2000 pages of noise.
Speaking of which, 2.95% on a ten-year bond? When the feds have to borrow trillions? Who’s kidding who? I count the fed (and fannie and freddie) in with the “banks” for whom I have no sympathy, and AIG – I spit in their general direction.
“Spreading the wealth” was the piss poor policy of Obama the younger but I am afraid that it will be the “spreading the debt” that will be Obama the olders legacy.
It seems to me that the biggest problem with the banks is that irresponsibility has lots of benefits and no downside. You’re responsible for lending decisions? Then if things go well you make a fortune. And if they go badly? Who cares? Certainly not the bankers.
It might be useful for those making the sort of decisions that led to the banking crisis to be made truly responsible. Things go well, you get a bonus. Things go badly? Then you lose everything you have, and end up literally on the street with no money, no food, no real or other property of any sort except the clothes on your back. Maybe then sensible decisions would be made. The idea of Wall Street and City of London spivs begging in the street appeals to me greatly.
And yes, this would require regulation. As for the current criminally irresponsible crop – tarring and feathering is too good for them.
One rather drastic measure might be to make the buying and selling of any derivatives of any sort flat-out illegal – and most especially the buying and selling of loans as securities.
L3 (#42): “In other words, the truth will set you free, and we are born to be free.”
And if you love something, set it free. What does this say about those who would regulate, restrain, and fetter free enterprise?
John (#47): “To be fair to Krugman, the reason we can’t run even larger deficits now is because we ran deficits when we should have had a surplus. When times are good governments should be saving money against the inevitable recession. That’s Keynesian thought.”
In other words, Keynesianism might/would work just fine if only human nature were different. We’ve heard that refrain before.
“So, what’s a Keynsian to do? We’ve already borrowed and spent more than we can afford, and we won’t be able to save money through a surplus when the economy does improve. We’re locked into too much entitlement spending for that to happen.”
Not only that, but any recovery will be awfully fragile, don’tcha know, so we won’t be able to cut spending lest we slip right back into recession. When will we find it in ourselves to do so? Approximately at the peak of the business cycle. Oops.
Cowboy (#60): “The problem, you see, is that we aren’t spending our money right, and we’re reluctant to take on new mortgages, new car loans, new credit cards, etc. right now. This is a disaster for guys like Krugman and the solution to this is simple: he wants to spend your money for you.”
Nothing secret or nefarious about it, if you know economics. That’s the very definition of Keynesianism.
DonB (#68):
Well before that, we’ll likely reach another point described by VDH: not ideological confrontation with the government, but avoidance and cynicism. The US tax collection system currently relies in large part on the voluntary cooperation of the population. Good luck when an increasing amount of the economy goes black, and when the population decides to exploit the Government as much as it does them.
[To be overly cautious: I'm not lecturing or correcting the people I've quoted here; I'm merely riffing off their comments.]
Charles (#46): “There’s too much fear on this board right now.”
I’m afraid you’re right.
Lifeofthemind (#65): “At least I do not have to fear for the Belmont Club.”
Until all of you get taken away in the middle of the night. I need not fear; I am safely ensconced in my impregnable fortress in Latveria.
Publius (#66): “Anyone else waiting for Hari Seldon to show up?”
Not in the Godot sense. I’ve calculated the exact time of his arrival.
josh/76; it’s not that banks need rules, it’s that the five biggest –who have half the trade –are still ‘too big to fail’ –the market-ruination the unspooling of which was the purpose of the bill in the first place. So it joins Stim and Obamacare and all the others in grabbing power and control on the basis of a problem, which the citizen’s surrender of power and control turns out to have been the only effect –as in every case the purported reason for the reform ends up as bad as it was before the fix got put in –or worse, since now that it’s been fixed it’s off the table –to be never fixed –the only fix is the fix we the people end up ever deeper in. read it and weep:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703426004575338732174405398.html
the markets will still assume that the new council of elders –unelected –who will ‘make exceptions’ to the no-bailout-rules IF ‘national security is at stake’ –are still as before ready to bail out big banks –but not medium to small regionals and red-state banks.
So we have two tiers –and which one will pay less for capital (that crucial bank metric) and enjoy the competitive advantage, tier 1 or tier 2 ?
In time, there’ll only be a few banks –repeating the effect of all the interferences in the mkt this bunch has done –and perfectly aping the foundational building of Italian and German fascism in 20th century europe. Only a handful of large entities, private in name but, due to the structure, easily politically controlled.
This is clearly the desired end result of everything this bunch does. So, how are they not fascists? how is the USA not now in a transitional proto-fascist state?
#3 L3 “Rather, the American people will rise up and reassert their power over their government.”
Yeah, I hope, eventually. Once things collapse and the free stuff is gone.
Let’s get optimistic, and say that 50 DEM seats in the house turn this election, and every one of the new GOP Congresscritters is on the record as supporting a massive wind down of the Federal debt (Government). Lets get even more optimistic, and say that half of them actually believe that and intend to work towards it. We now have 25 out of 435 that actually want to do what’s necessary. Maybe enough to affect things on the margin, but hardly the force necessary to effect real change.
Other than checking the idiots in the WH (a good goal) I don’t see what the GOP majority would be able to accomplish, because they don’t really want to change things, they just want control.
Then we have the problem that we appear to be in a death spiral, and the only plausible way out I can see is a massive de-emphasis of the Govt, coupled with policies to promote massive economic growth. I’m trying, but I can’t think of anything that’s less likely than that.
There are way too many, both individuals and institutions, including many in Business, who have too much vested in the current system to allow any fundamental change. Couple that with the fact that any serious attempt to move us in the right direction would entail a lot of hazards, both known and unknown, and would require much suffering in the interim. I believe most people are looking for a pain free way to get back to where we were, and that’s not possible. Politicians that level with the voters on that are going to have a short shelf life, or at least their ideas will.
So, unless voters get real clear eyed and embrace the necessary program cuts, and steel themselves to make the sacrifices, we’re going to ping pong between elections, and kick the can until it can’t be kicked anymore. Then the real question is, what comes after? Or is there even going to be an after?
I’m optimistic that, in the long term, assuming the world economic and political situation doesn’t spawn something terrible like a Nuke war, people here will reassert themselves. At least I hope they will. But that won’t happen until the failure occurs.
Gooood Morrrring BC!!
Here is a little tidbit to set your thinking for the day:
I admit I had to watch it [3] three times and go full screen to catch it all. But my eyes ain’t what they used to be and it moves at a very fast pace. But it is not good, it is just great…as in fantastic.
Have a good day and tell those you love, just how much you love them. You never know when it will be the last time you will be able to.
Papa Ray
Responding to your comment 69. Marty, particularly this paragraph:
“Tax cuts do not, as a rule, pay for themselves… the Laffer curve only does that in very special circumstances, most notable very high marginal rates where reducing teh[sic] rate brings economic activity out of teh shadows to where it is recognized and taxed. That was somewhat the case in teh[sic] 1970s when the top income tax rate was 70%, but it is for the most part no longer tha case.”
Several of your statements ring false, or suggest deliberate disingenuosity or worse.
You assert that tax cuts significantly increase revenues only when they bring clandestine or “grey market” transactions out into the open “where they are recognized and taxed.”
First of all, that assumes that the government has an unquestionable right to a revenue stream from any damn thing that goes in within the reach of its clubs and guns; that citizens conducting transactions privately are necessarily doing so to defraud the government of its legitimate interests.
More fundamentally, this logic assumes that all taxes are inarguably beneficial in intent and effect, and that therefor reducing any specific tax burden necessarily has harmful consequences that can only be justified if it can be shown that the harm will be offset by some benefit to the society that demonstrably flows from the reduced tax.
I would laugh out loud if only it didn’t hurt so much.
There are too many folks who have accepted the notion that citizens exist for no other purpose than to provide easy pickings for the Oberlehnsherren; that their amusing little attempts to scrape together some comfort and security for their families are only beneficial to the government to the extent that they provide some dependable fruit that can regularly be harvested; and finally, that the government is the thing, the only thing of any importance, for which purpose we humble citizens have been born into the world to worship and to service.
Several decades back I participated in a statewide organization of video & film producers. A number of the group had been given specific answers from the State Sales Tax department that they were not required to collect sales taxes on their production billings, since they were services not tangibles. They were later billed and fined by that same department for failure to collect and pay those taxes. The tax officials of course reminded them that the department was not responsible for giving incorrect tax information. Yeah, Yeah, we’ve seen that throughout the government.
The main thing is that the department, in the absence of any legislated definition or court precedent, simply decided that the bureaucrats had the power to define the transactions however they wanted. Naturally, they saw fit to define film & video production contracts as tangible products in each and every case, ’cause… well, who do these pipsqueaks think they are, anyway?
We gathered our anecdotes, research, reprints from industry publications, etc., arranged a legislative subcommittee hearing, and converged on the state capital. One (count’em, ONE) superannuated legislator sat patiently indulging us as we gave scores of examples of how other states had doubled, trebled their revenues (even septuplified) from film & video production, by reducing rates or simply exempting their domestic production businesses from sales tax. We pointed out that many contracts were for consulting only, or for operating rented equipment for hire, or for development of ideas to determine feasibility, where fees were paid without any final tangible product ever being sought or delivered.
Finally, the white-haired gentleman told us the late hour required adjournment. “I want to thank y’all for coming, and for your research, and for sharing these highly interesting stories regarding our tax revenue activities…” he spoke in a courteous, indulgent drawl he’d clearly perfected before Second Manassas, “…but I need to remind you all that we are not obliged to be fair.”
Maybe I’m over-reacting and assuming a meanness of spirit you do not have in you.
But many Americans have for most of their lives had a growing sense that our government has utterly forgotten that it is meant to serve the public, and sees itself instead as being the entity which all resources, efforts, wealth, and activity exist to support and enrich.
p.s. Anyone know the html code for underscore?
In 11/1999, Martin S. Feldstein was the George F. Baker Professor of Economics at Harvard University and former President of the US National Bureau of Economic Research. He investigated the effects of income tax rates on the economy.
The Deadweight Loss of Taxes
“The deadweight loss caused by increasing tax rates above current levels may exceed $2 per $1 of revenue increase.”
Say the government reduces tax rates, nominally giving up $100 in taxes. It doesn’t lose all of this, because increased economic activity supplies (say) an extra $50 at that lower rate. The government has actually lost $50 in tax revenue.
The private sector creates $100 more wealth than it did before ($2 for each $1 decrease in taxes actually paid). The society is $50 better off overall. Change in wealth $100 plus change in tax collected $-50 gives $50 more wealth than existed before.
The money going to the government through tax policy is not the only factor. The overall wealth of the society is more important.
Put another way, doing things through government, with the associated taxation, is an expensive way to do things. We should purchase through government only the most valueable things that only government can do.
excellent rant, mad fiddler. yes, to someone who ‘buys the premise’, tax revenues are raw materials, dumb stuff sitting around ‘out there’ just needing mining and harvesting.
And, the more the better, there’s no cost involved. Oh, a little noise from the hinterlands, whiners spouting off about Laffer Curves and wastage and such –but that’s just greedy kulaks who don’t want to pay their fair share to the American People [tm].
Mad Fiddler (#84): “Anyone know the html code for underscore?”
No.
Paul Krugman’s crystal balls?
Smell like something burning. Well that don’t confront me none, long as I get my rent paid on Friday.
_ ; _ horizontal bar (underscore)
In use, omit the space between 95 and the following ;
Underscore also works by itself (shift dash)
Bob, what you say about Keynes is true. He articulated an economic theory centered around a “counter-cyclical” fiscal policy, no? The idea is basically that during the boom times the government should contract money supply, save, run surplus, and during the lean times it should spend and expand the money supply. In other words Keynes grand contribution to economics, one that has him immortalized, is essentially the story of the grasshopper and the ant. That’s what make Keynes sound so reasonable, and how the fish are hooked.
The deception is this: there are no Keynesians. Where are they during the boom times except to be found proclaiming “Laissez les bon temps roulez!”? Keynes never enters into it until the chips are down, and then he’s trotted out as a thin veneer over an attempt to keep the party going. Pure hucksterism. During the good times they say, “Hey look now, we can afford to spend more!” And when times go bad they invoke Keynes and say, “Hey look now, we can’t afford NOT to spend more!”
Perhaps I’m too cynical, but despite whatever are their intentions the effect on us is the same as a heist. So, I’m not kind.
If you mean HTML code for underline, the code is u in the appropriate on/off delimiters, like i for italics. For extra emphasis you can use both in series.
Actually, having just typed that and seen how it is displayed, the HTML engine for this page apparently does not recognize the u code.
I dunno.
I apologize for my comment #87. Mea culpa.
Cowboy (#90):
We are in agreement. I have no doubt that there are some principled Keynesians, but they’re relatively thin on the ground. (And they tend not to be the ones we’re dealing with.)
Can anyone recommend any readable essay on the relationship between Keynesianism and fiat money?
Also, I recall someone comparing economics and archeology a few months ago. Can anyone point me to that comment?
the money “war” is a “war” above our heads. When the euro gets lower than the dollar, it doesn’t make any good for your exportations, then the markets manage to let the eurosphere breath a little so that the euro rating increases…
this will last as long as until some people finally decide that the rules must change
http://tinyurl.com/34vq8oc Dollar Sold off as UN Called for More Stable Reserve System
http://www.europac.net/videoblog.asp?a=watch
Very apropos article, linked by Insta under “Fed Economist Attacks Uncredentialed Econo-blogging.”
Uncredentialed econo-blogger replies “Hey, Fed-man, tell your credentials ‘thanks a LOT’.
AMG/85; –worth a repeat, your
“The money going to the government through tax policy is not the only factor. The overall wealth of the society is more important.
Put another way, doing things through government, with the associated taxation, is an expensive way to do things. We should purchase through government only the most valueable things that only government can do.
Amounts to about twice, roughly, it seems. $1 paid-in gains fifty cents of services worked-out. That ‘lost’ fifty cents funds the fraction of government that amounts to a jobs program, aka ‘make-work’.
Enter the McGuffin: the wealth and welfare of the economic nation would be better served just paying for, but not accepting, the ‘make-work’ –as it has a multiplier dragging effect through the private, or ‘real’, economy, in the form of the produced ‘make-work product’, AKA excess regulation, reportage, compliances, the whole administrative info-gathering thing, in its excess fraction (fraction of excess), which since it varies with every variable, equals God-only-knows-how-much in loss and ‘opportunity cost’ (the work never begun, the innovation never created, et cetera, the immeasurable potential forced to be left out in the cold).
Mickey Mouse with a submachine gun –just a cartoon image –but this day you will work several very real hours in obeisance to its power.
Obama looked into his crystal ball and told us in January 2009 that if congress didn’t pass his stimulus package unemployment would go to 8%. What he neglected to say is that if the stimulus package DID pass that unemployment would go to 10% and beyond. Somehow, I think people initially took the wrong message from his comments.
What always leaves me skeptical of the advice tendered by these brilliant economists is the fundamental illogic of their own behavior. They purport to be able to predict future trends in the financial state of the world. Now forgive me for being a naive engineer, but if I had any real confidence in my own ability to predict the economic future the last thing I would do is tell anyone about it. I would use it, quietly, to guide my own investments and become wealthy beyond the dreams of Croesus.
Why don’t they? Am I to assume that Krugman is an altruist of such consummate virtue that he mutes his evident ability to make money at the expense of economic illiterates like me, and instead makes a more modest (though bloated) income advising me on how to protect myself against the “brights” like himself? What is there in his personal resume that would lead me to believe that saintly motivation?
Or should I rather believe that he knows perfectly well that he has only the vaguest idea what might happen, but has attained the proverbial iron rice bowl by convincing the NYT editors (and a naive Nobel Prize committee) that he knowns what he is talking about and will tell them for a fee?
Isn’t the very fact that this fellow writes his column proof that he is fully aware that he doesn’t really know what he is talking about?
In engineering, top inventors try very hard NOT to disclose what they know, even delaying the patent process as long as they can. They know full well that “trade secrets” are much more secure and useful intellectual property than patents. And that is true even when basic scientific principles are involved. As a classic example, Thomas Hooke, the discoverer of the fundamental law of elasticity, famously concealed it for years, finally publishing it as an anagram puzzle. He was smart man, and his objective was not the then equivalent of a Nobel prize. He wanted to make accurate clocks and sell them for cash money.
Hooke was a man who could be believed. Krugman is a man whom intelligent folks will, if they don’t ignore him entirely (as I do), will take with a large grain of salt.