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The WSJ writes:
President Barack Obama sparred with House Republicans over job growth, the deficit and health care Friday, in an unusual dialog that both brought the two sides together and also exemplified Washington’s political gridlock.
The retreat here for House Republicans went on for nearly 90 minutes. At times combative and confident, Mr. Obama fielded questions on a range of topics, from the national debt to health care to trade. “I’m having fun,” he said at one point.
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- What did this achieve for the President? For the Congressional Republicans?
- Does this change the likelihood that the administration’s agenda will pass?
- What will the political effect of this meeting be?
Open thread.
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Jewish World Review January 28, 2010 / 14 Shevat 5770
Enlightened nations of the world are on a coffee-break from enlightenment
http://www.jewishworldreview.com/0110/glick012810.php3
Wretchard any thoughts?
I don’t think much of anything changed. Obama IMHO is best understood as a guy who has focused ALL of his political capital on Health Care.
Why?
Because he is redistributive in character. It is the passion closest to his heart, and with the Kenyan African nationalist views of his father.
Obama, even though he has many other things, that he would like to accomplish, has had to prioritize that which is most important to him. Which is redistribution of wealth. This is who he is, and that makes him fundamentally different from every other President.
Will Obama’s agenda pass? He has the votes to do it on a straight party line vote, and will likely get it. In fact, he can argue that he offers the only “escape” Democrats will have, which is permanent lobbyist/bureaucrat appointees after they get wiped out in elections. For those who are “only” down 30 points or so, he can offer SEIU and ACORN as shock troops for fraud.
The political effect of the meeting is zilch. It is unlikely to produce areas of agreement: i.e. Obama ditching policies most people don’t like: trials for terrorists in civilian court, ObamaCare, Cap and Trade (or regulatory cap and trade), and so on.
Obama could believe that somehow his magic Obama-ness will magically make the economy jump start and get employment back to Clintonian or even Bush levels. Obama could simply be an empty suit who really just wants to be the worlds biggest celebrity and could care less about governing, who mouths whatever words his advisors and wife tell him. Obama could think he would have some “deal” with Iran or whoever that will be his October surprise. He may think he can fraud his way ala Chicago to victory, and cry racism. He might want to copy Lincoln and do what Lincoln did (which was suspend major parts of the Constitution) given a “crisis” in Global Warming, terrorism, war in the Middle East, take your pick.
But if you are Joe Average nothing Obama has done has put money in your pocket, or given you a raise, or hired you back, or put less layoff pressure on you, or lowered the price of gasoline, or any of the other things that voters judge Presidents on.
They say “gridlock” like it was a bad thing.
Nothing I read in that WSJ article indicated Republicans won the clash — at their own friggin’ retreat. In fact, the article made The President sound quite reasonable and open-minded.
If the media coverage spreads that impression, Obama has made the Republicans look like fat-cats with no IDEAS, pudding-faced naysayers guarding their share of the spoils.
That won’t will help either Obama or the GOP. It’ll help the Tea Party.
It’s been mentioned here that the strategies of each party implicitly require the destruction of the other. Is Obama’s attendance an admission that this is an unworkable stategy? Or does it stem from a fear that the strategy is actually working for Republicans?
At times combative and confident
McCain at a bit past 3 PM EST, on the Medved show, being offered the opportunity to comment on Obama’s “I am not a Bolshevik” said it reminded him of Nixon’s “I am not a crook.” He avoided further comment.
Why is that news? John “no, he’s a nice man” McCain said it.
Obama’s tactic seemed revealed when he went to Q & A away from the control of a prepared speech. He is trying to distance the republicans from their base by associating himself with them. His full 19 minute speech was basically a list of things they had voted on together to create the impression there is no real difference. He mentioned McCain frequently. Could indicate he feels he is being brought down by republicans and means to “take them down with him” or something. He actually spells this out in the Q & A, which was then crystal clear in watching the speech after seeing that.
Highlight: a republican reading out a question for 0 from a letter from a “consitutent” named “David CARTER”.
When Obama states his plan and then challenges the GOP to produce a better one they have to do better than shuffling around staring at their feet.
Obama delivered a great opportunity to hoist him on his petard. Hopefully the GOP will take the ball and demand the media time to articulate why nationalizing health care will not accomplish what Obama claims it will while bankrupting the country.
The audio clips played by Rush made Obama sound unbelievably pig-headed and arrogant.
Clearly, Obama volunteered to talk to the filthy Republicans just about the way Osama follows Islamic theology and must warn the infidel, giving them a chance to convert, before it is allowed to murder them.
This is not a sign of bipartisanship at all.
I guess it’s nice of Obama to take the time to spit on the Republicans, but there is no sign that he has ever heard the principles that they follow, or that he wishes to hear them, or that he could imagine them having a valid point he has not already heard of, from Marx.
The only real questions are to what Obama really believes, about the issues, about himself, about the Republicans, about America. He did not improve his ratings on any those scales, by his performance today.
#2 Whiskey:
Because he is redistributive in character.
‘redistributive’ is only part of the explanation. He’s also a ‘retributionist’ of the first order. Holder, Jarret, Holdren, Browner, and most of the ‘czars’ are also retributionists. He is Ahab, and the Great White Middle Class is what he is hunting.
Obama delivered a great opportunity to hoist him on his petard.
Why were they not prepared? His intended presence there had been known for weeks.
The mere fact that Obama traveled to Canossa can be seen as a sign of his diminished stature. On the other hand Mohammad did have to go to the mountain. The fact that he remained defiant and decried the politics of looking for someone to blame, in the same paragraphs in which he repeatedly laid the blame on Bush, may bind his base more closely to him.
Cheney and some others have done good work in responding to the lies directed at the last administration. Fred Thompson has been brilliant in issuing a stream of tweets that demolish Obama’s pretensions. Their efforts while laudatory will never reach through the media wall and influence the general public. GoP legislatures challenging Obama can build momentum and keep the possibility that there is an alternative alive. They do not have the stature to successfully confront Obama as long as he is backed by the MSM, baring a public meltdown on his part.
There is only one person capable of decisively refuting the Democrats efforts to control the narrative and seal the judgment of History. That person is George Bush. He will only get one chance to do so. Therefor he must not be baited into speaking prematurely. When he does he must do so with full preparation in a setting that establishes his authority and with such thoroughness as to leave no opportunity for slander or dismissal by the minions of the DNC. When the old F-104 pilot makes this last combat run he will have to deliver all of his ordnance on target in one pass. That will be his time for the fighter jock to show John McCain the attack jock how it should be done.
Pascal,
Excellent point. McCain comparing Obama to “The President is not a crook” Nixon not only diminishes BHO but also reminds everyone that McCain, as the reformer, can be seen as the heir to the true Conservative Goldwater. He is comparing himself to the man who told Richard Nixon when it was time to resign. It also buttresses his choice of Sarah Palin, who established herself by locking up dishonest old fashioned politicians from her own party. By comparison Obama’s decrying partisanship while practicing it looks simply shoddy. While many Republicans find McCain frustrating he is the only man who can credibly challenge Obama in this way.
I think Paul Ryan’s plan is a very good one.
And some commentators are saying that it was mistake to allow this meeting to be televised (helped Obama too much, they say) but I’m going to stick to principles and continue to support the idea that the more open discussions we have, the better.
Also, no one is gonna watch something like this except the political junkies who’ve already got their minds made up, so I can’t see it having much of an impact one way or the other.
Don’t confuse the current Republicans with the Tea Party.
This was a fascinating interchange to witness. I’d like to see more of this kind of frank and civil exchange between the sides. But the very fact that this unprecedented forum occurred seems to indicate that both sides perceive they are at risk from voter disaffection as indicated in the recent developments in Jersey and Massachusetts.
One of the things that amazes me about Obama is his ability to say one thing, make it sound convincing, but then turn around and do the opposite of what he promised. His calls for comity seemed sincere and heartfelt, even desperate at times, but when he’s just lectured the Supreme Court, the Congress, and the American People, blaming them for his policy failures and blunders, it’s hard to imagine this plea for civility will having any lasting effect.
Obama seemed especially desperate to end the now howling complaints about his policies, his administration, an his tactics. His ability to ‘laugh it off’ is looking very thin these days. Some of those icy stares he delivered to questioners seem to belie a fragility that doesn’t befit a President. And continuing to blame the impotent Republicans for his is a non-starter.
While agreeing to meet in hostile territory with the opposition was impressive, and I think he handled himself pretty well, there was no indication whatsoever that he is inclined to re-examine the fundamentals of his approach – as indicated in the SOTU address, it’s full steam ahead, lip service to bipartisanship, appeals for civility, and back to the same old poisonous behavior that got him here.
I think he’s taking a short respite from his attacks against everybody from surgeons, bankers, Limbaugh, Republican leaders, the “Teabaggers”, FOXNews, etc., but there’s no indication he will “lead” any differently. I don’t think this will “dialogue” amount to much in the end. If it became a more regular thing however, it may have some salutory effect on the players. It was riveting to watch, in any event.
Maybe on the day it was a draw.
But the long-ball view, IMNHO, is that the Conservatives have the goods for LOTS of commercials, quotes, and refutations.
They stripped THE ONE and the congress-thugs of the “we never hear anything constructive” meme, since Obama acknowledged having had Conservative ideas.
Obama also made the Nixonian declaration, “I am not an ideologue”. This is an awful mistake, as it is so readily shown to be a lie.
There was the vintage whine about how he couldn’t find any experts that countered the crap he was hearing, also a demonstrable lie.
Fun = stammer, stutter, uh, uh.
I love when he loses his thought pattern. That look of fear on his face is fantastic.
The conservatives aren’t the ones in decision-making majority power and they sure as hell don’t have to go for any of the leftist’s policy making to take some of the heat off of the blatant B.S. the lefties want to force down our throats and then whine about ‘partisan’ politics. Especially considering they have upsets in their own Democratic party between the Liberals and the Progressives which is causing their leftist agendas to flop about in political turmoil.
Let ‘em at each other and the conservatives can stay above the fray.
I just wish conservatives explain that a little better so people understand why they are the party of ‘HELL NO’.
Ragspierre @ Jan 29, 2010 – 3:11 pm:
Thanks for setting the record staight.
I was wondering why “I am not a Bolshevik” did not come up with a recent hit. Now I know. I took your clue and changed the search to “I am not an Ideologue” and got many hits.
I listen to Medved primarily to discover in what manner this “former” Leftist agit-proper will next undermine our cause.
To be fair to Medved and McCain, where I suspect neither would be so charitable to most of us, Obama himself, as reported by Reuters, did use the phrase “some Bolshevik plot.”
That could have been the source of Medved’s mangled quote. Still, this misquote of Obama to McCain was how Medved opened his show, and given his history in agit-prop, well… YMMV. You can be sure that Media Matters will hammer us over it while ignoring the true quote which is nearly as damning.
delete duplicate. Sorry.
There are con men and there are con men. Some are just exploiters but then there are those whose pattern is more like a mental illness than anything else. The former recognize when the jig is up. The latter don’t; they keep trying to con you all the way to the hangman’s noose that awaits them.
Obama fits within the second category. Politically he is doomed. Whatever overtures he makes to anyone will be distrusted by those to whom they are made, and to the other elements of the political spectrum who are opposed it will just further erode his credibility when he tries to make “concessions” to them.
Like a chicken with its head cut off, he’s just too stupid and arrogant to know that (politically anyway) he’s dead. Dead chicken walking…
☠ ☠ ☠
Feisty and defensive, methinks. Reminds me of a common facet of teenager’s demeanor. Fortunately, nobody from the supreme court was in the room, so they were spared for a precious moment.
What kind of president finds it necessary to say “I’m not a Bolshevik”? Did Ronald Reagan ever found it necessary to say “I’m not a wimp”? Air traffic controllers of the world, unite! Your Cadillac has come.
testing, testing, … several posts have not shown up over last couple of days
I think you guys are right on the money. Obama is totally a Bolshevik. This thought came to mind during sotu. Openly attacking the court in full view of the public is a Bolshevik tactic. If he really believes he’s not, he’s in denial on a magnificent scale. I only heard clips of the netting from today but his tone was much different than the one he struck in the sotu. Just like a typical bully, tough guy when his friends are around, mr. nice guy when he’s surrounded by the other guy’s friends. I’m listening to Carol Platt Liebau filling in for Hugh Hewitt right now. Apparently she worked with Obama many years ago although I’m not sure how extensively. It’s an interesting listen.
Obama did this to give appearance that he’s reaching across the aisle. Now, when things go south the MSM can further demonize conservatives for not reaching back (ie., moving to the left).
By doing what Obama did, he looks like Daniel going into the lion’s den. He’s come out unscathed. That will give him what he needs to those who look only at appearances. Bad for us!
The thing that got me was how Obama responded to one Republican representative’s question by saying, “You asked that in the manner of campaigning.”
As if every word out of his mouth does not sound like a campaign speech?
Combined with the “foreign funds” remark of the SOTU speech, it is obvious that the man has no shame at all.
And he still thinks that talking to people will convince them of anything – despite the fact that since his election that has not happened even once.
LifeoftheMind: That’s F-102 not F-104.
Attacks; first on particular elements of society, next on private sector industries he claims to have ‘saved’, and now the SCOTUS???
He is truly a radical. He had, prior to this new gig, never needed to form a coalition, which is the only way things get done in big government. Folks are beginning to realize that he is incapable. He knows it and will now speed up the rhetoric of his ideology.
I see he is now truly unhinged and irrational. Forget about trying to understand him, Richard.
This is the same realization I had when I first read the Koran. Nothing coherent; just a random patchwork of angry rants from a madman.
There will be no negotiations with him – might as well accept that and move on. Don’t waste your time, GOP.
RWE: The thing that got me was how Obama responded to one Republican representative’s question by saying, “You asked that in the manner of campaigning.”
Psychiatrists call that “projection”. The Bard would say, “Methinks he doth protest too much.” The entire SOTU speech was BHO complaining about one thing after another that he himself does:
He slammed Washington for being “unable or unwilling to solve any of our problems” and “leaving a mountain of debt” to future generations, and lamented the “outsized influence of lobbyists in Washington” . . . forgetting, perhaps, that he’s the President in Washington, and the Dems have the majority of the House and Senate, in (you guessed it) Washington.
I am conflicted with the notion that the elected parts of the government ought not to go after the SCOTUS hammer and tong for idiotic decisions. Boudemine and Kelo come to mind. The One went well over the line in doing it in their faces at the STFU Weds. Finally, I am concerned at how bad Ginsberg looked and how bad Stevens sounded when he read the opinion 10 days ago. Don’t want The One seeding two more race-baiting bigots like Sotomayor to lifetime appointments. Then again, it would give a suitably enraged congress the motivation to do something via constitutional amendment to rein in activist SCOTUS decisions – which is yet another two edged sword. Onward ….
At around the 2:38 mark 0bama gives his favorite finger some exercise:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAmeDWjmpt0
So mature.
Obama has blown it on everything he has pushed. He is a redistribution type socialist (Marxist Light, without the violent revolution). Look at his programs. Look at his appointments. Look at his so-called Czars. This man is out to transform this country into a socialist state. The people he associates with and his actions confirm who he is and what is his agenda.
His idea of bipartisan reaching across the aisle is to give the republicans a bone, then fix things later to get his way. Repubs are morons if they take his bait, like Charlie Brown and Lucy with the football.
Republicans must stand on basic moral, ethical and fiscal principles, as well as the Constitution. There are no compromises on this. If they cannot do it, then they should be targeted by independents and Tea Party folks, just like the dems. This is a battle for the soul of this nation.
IMHO, I do not think that Obama can last out the year as pres.
Teresita #26: That was a standard tactic of the Soviets. First accuse the other side of what you are planning to do.
And it is a standard tactic of the Western Left, too.
Make a list of what the Reagan and Bush Admin were accused of doing and then a list of the dirty tricks the Clinton Admin actually did.
Then there was the 2000 Presidential election. Look at what they accused the Republicans of doing in Florida and what they actually did, first in Wash State and then in Minnesota.
I really don’t know any more if it is a calculated strategy, a psychological flaw, or just something that makes it possible for them to look at themselves in the mirror afterwards.
RE: #9 Alaska Paul
Well what do you think he’s going to do…resign? I can’t see a political animal walking away from the job. Even an innefectual leader has his pride, and if he’s a politician all the more so. I thought Carter would have said no to a second term given his botching the job. Surprise surprise he tried again. I can’t see teh Won walking away.
So how about impeachment? But for what…incompetance? Good luck with that!
Nope, me thinks we’re stuck with him.
“I am not an ideologue”.
Yeah, and I am not fat.
RE: #9 Alaska Paul “IMHO, I do not think that Obama can last out the year as pres.”
Well what do you think he’s going to do…resign? I can’t see a political animal walking away from the job. Even an innefectual leader has his pride, and if he’s a politician all the more so. I thought Carter would have said no to a second term given his botching the job. Surprise surprise he tried again. I can’t see teh Won walking away.
So how about impeachment? But for what…incompetance? Good luck with that!
Nope, me thinks we’re stuck with him.
Obama’s problem is that he’s not campaigning.
HE HAS THE JOB. So people expect results. All the spin won’t save him. He has to PRODUCE. Which he cannot do.
He is toast barring his magic bullet.
#29. Alaska Paul
What??? Can’t last out the year? Come on now, don’t start that stuff.
“I am no ideologue”
(say el flaco Presidente)
“but a simple spotlight hog”
(of whom i’ve had quite plenty)
i don’t think anyone is listening to obama anymore; he will have to produce results before he starts changing minds. and the more he pushes his programs and policies, the worse he makes things — so i don’t see him improving his standing any time soon (if ever).
RETREAT HELL, I JUST GOT HERE
After an exhausting day trying to cram some semblance of sense into the thick skulls of the Republican scum, President Obama was in a relaxed mood as he engaged in his favorite activity, reverie. My tape recorder on, I pressed him to explain the purpose of his visit to Baltimore and the Republican retreat.
I feel relaxed, Obama smiled
My super brain just drove them wild
They sputtered and they stammered at my facts
With IQs in the lower half
To watch them squirm it was to laugh
They’d double their brain score with just two blacks
But like all white folks they just sat
And thought that this was just a chat
The president was talking just to them
It flattered them to think that I
A better speaking brighter guy
Would treat them just the same as fellow Dem
The purpose of the trip of course
Was not to ride the healthcare horse
But Baltimore was on my list to do
The crabcakes were a special treat
In truth I went there just to eat
And had some snapper with some sherry too
So now I’m pumped and on my game
Just put them white folks out to shame
I’m ready now to rumble with them cats
I’m ramming healthcare down their throats
With KSM I feel my oats
And come November squash those dirty rats
With that he drifted off to sleep
And I with missions I must keep
Left quietly and heard a gentle snore
The next room held a quiet crew
Pelosi, Reid and Biden too
I winked at them and softly closed the door
Obama will politicize this event all through November, as he begins his campaign against the “No” Republicans. After a year in office, his agenda is shot, and he now needs a scapegoat. He’ll do this by continuing to stiff-arm the GOP on reviving the economy while portraying today’s effort of outreach as noble.
His problem is that he now influences or essentially owns major sectors of the economy. Republicans need to remind him of that every day.
Only slightly off-topic.
Citing 9/11, Blair Defends Legacy at Iraq Inquiry
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/30/world/europe/30britain.html?pagewanted=1&hp
Asked if he had regrets, Mr. Blair said he bore responsibility “but not a regret for removing Saddam Hussein.” And while he said he was sorry about the profound divisions the war caused in Britain, “I genuinely do believe the world is safer as a result.”
“This isn’t about a lie or a conspiracy or a deceit or a deception,” Mr. Blair said. “It’s a decision. And the decision I had to take was, given Saddam’s history, given his use of chemical weapons, given the over one million people whose deaths he had caused, given 10 years of breaking U.N. resolutions, could we take the risk of this man reconstituting his weapons program or is that a risk it is responsible to take?”
He went on: “The decision I took — and frankly would take again — was: if there was any possibility that he could develop weapons of mass destruction, we would stop him. It was my view then and that is my view now.”
“The crucial thing after Sept. 11 is that the calculus of risk changed,” he said. “The point about this terrorist act was that over 3,000 people had been killed on the streets of New York, and this is what changed my perception of risk: if these people inspired by this religious fanaticism could have killed 30,000, they would have.”
On several occasions he referred to the “2010 question” of what the situation would have been without the invasion as a way of justifying his actions.
And, he said, if the United States and Britain had not toppled Mr. Hussein, “we would be facing a situation where Iraq would be competing with Iran on nuclear weapons capability and on the nuclear issue in support of terrorist groups.”
At least here in the good ol’ USA, we know that the “Bush lied” nonsense was strictly a cover story for all the Democrats who voted to invade Iraq in 2002, after all of them accused Saddam of building WMD’s and supporting terrorists throughout the 1990’s (incl Osama bin Laden per the 9/11 Commission Report).
I imagine it was something similar in the UK for poor Tony B.
My regret is that so many people regard this simple historic truth as “politics.”
Obama laid down a challenge that the GOP would be foolish to ignore: put forward the math that our current budget deficit can be paid off with “across-the-board” tax cuts. Why should this be so hard?
Maybe, it’s because even Ronald Reagan didn’t believe this, as National Review once admitted in 2003:
http://www.nationalreview.com/nrof_bartlett/bartlett200310290853.asp
“Reagan may have resisted calls for tax increases, but he ultimately supported them. In 1982 alone, he signed into law not one but two major tax increases. The Tax Equity and Fiscal Responsibility Act (TEFRA) raised taxes by $37.5 billion per year and the Highway Revenue Act raised the gasoline tax by another $3.3 billion.
According to a recent Treasury Department study, TEFRA alone raised taxes by almost 1 percent of the gross domestic product, making it the largest peacetime tax increase in American history. An increase of similar magnitude today would raise more than $100 billion per year.
In 1983, Reagan signed legislation raising the Social Security tax rate. This is a tax increase that lives with us still, since it initiated automatic increases in the taxable wage base. As a consequence, those with moderately high earnings see their payroll taxes rise every single year.
In 1984, Reagan signed another big tax increase in the Deficit Reduction Act. This raised taxes by $18 billion per year or 0.4 percent of GDP. A similar-sized tax increase today would be about $44 billion.
The Consolidated Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1985 raised taxes yet again. Even the Tax Reform Act of 1986, which was designed to be revenue-neutral, contained a net tax increase in its first 2 years. And the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1987 raised taxes still more.
The year 1988 appears to be the only year of the Reagan presidency, other than the first, in which taxes were not raised legislatively. Of course, previous tax increases remained in effect. According to a table in the 1990 budget, the net effect of all these tax increases was to raise taxes by $164 billion in 1992, or 2.6 percent of GDP. This is equivalent to almost $300 billion in today’s economy.”
China warns U.S. Taiwan arms sales threaten cooperation
With cooperation like China’s UN vetoes on Iran sanctions, who needs uncooperative enemies?
Do you suppose if China stops buying US treasuries that Obama’s cabinet appointees will burn their copies of Mao’s little red book?
Obama says he’s no Bolshevik – but the Communist Party praised the SOTU speech: “a virtuoso performance!”
CPUSA: Obama State of the Union: He got the ball rolling
I can’t say much about the “debate” as I didn’t watch it. I’m so tired of Obama.
Obama says a lot but events keep negating the words. A debate in January may not help him much if the economy keeps slipping, we have another bombing “incident”, something crappy happens with Iran,Iraq, N. Korea, or etc. Right now the they are going yippee about the 5.95 4th quarter GDP report. The market isn’t reacting to that because they know it will “revised” down at least two more times, the “growth” involved government spending and inventory reduction. It would take a miracle to really improve U6 between now and November.
I agree Gridlock may be the best we can hope for. If Laffer is right 2011 will be a real hell.
#41 Cowboy Ray
His problem is that he now influences or essentially owns major sectors of the economy. Republicans need to remind him of that every day.
The problem is one of understanding reality. The “progressive” mindset isn’t that much different from that of a four year old child: if you get a Superman costume and put it on, that really makes you Superman.
Of course it doesn’t, it just makes you a four year old child in a costume who will get tore to pieces if you’re stupid enough to take on things that only Superman could do.
The Obamanauts have taken over a huge segment of the economy and they haven’t a clue as to how to manage it. And the excuse for their ineffectual guardianship is the same as Leftists have proclaimed forever: it won’t work if we only control a piece of the system but it will work if we can control it all. The problem is that we just don’t have enough control.
Yeah–right little Supermen. We’ll think about it. But for the meantime you need to go to bed. But don’t worry little Superman, there’s a Care-Bear nightlight on in your bedroom that will keep those awful Rush Limbaugh clones from coming out from under your bed and eating you. Sleep tight sweet babies. Sleep tight.
CG @ 43: Obama laid down a challenge that the GOP would be foolish to ignore: put forward the math that our current budget deficit can be paid off with “across-the-board” tax cuts. Why should this be so hard?
Who cares. Would you rather spend $770,000,000,000 on government programs, or tax cuts?
Hey, let me suggest: OBAMA’S APPROACH IS TRICKLE-DOWN. An across the board tax cut is more – democratic!
Obambus’ out is, “Oh, you want to cut taxes on billionaires!” I was shocked and disgusted that he said that as a response to the Republicans today. It suggests he really believes that’s an issue. Which suggests he hasn’t the foggiest idea who actually pays taxes. And suggests he can’t just trivially adjust for it, in any case.
Obambus strikes me as utterly and completely unable to handle numbers. And, you know, I’ve said that and meant it only figuratively, but it is possible that it is literally true. I had an old friend, English major, who managed to get such a low score on the SAT math test, you’d wonder he could count his shoes. Now, my friend was actually fine with numbers in the real world, but as a matter of pride, he didn’t WANT to be any good at math. There are people in the world who really can’t do basic math, whether that’s genetics or schooling or psychology, any or all of the above.
And on that note we can segue from this to Algore and AGW …
Josh @ 48:
“Who cares. Would you rather spend $770,000,000,000 on government programs, or tax cuts?”
I’d rather pay off the current budget deficit so that we have the cash reserves necessary for the next crisis, say a war with China or the cost of invading a securing Pakistan’s nukes if the Taliban were to sweep into Islamabad.
The GOP also professes to care about budget deficits, but no one believes that budget cuts alone will pay for them. Let’s be clear: Mike Pence did not make the best case for his proposals tonight. Maybe it’s the format, maybe he’s never done the math. IF the latter, then that can be easily rectified and the results released. Math matters Josh.
Yes, the math matters, I was illustrating general principles and a range of options all better than the present.
The problems are tough. If I were emperor, I’m really not certain what I’d do – ask some smarter people than myself, mostly. And I’m pretty sure I’d do nothing like the current $770b porkulus package.
OTOH, we may just be in real trouble for the next couple of years, no matter who does what. Just don’t want to make it worse than it has to be.
I can’t help but wonder- do the Republicans actually have any original ideas or are they afraid of making Obama look good and/or him taking credit for any results?
Edited out.
Speakeasy, you do have a point. The last time the Republicans let the Democrats in on how to solve problems realistically, it gave Clinton the time he needed to Europeanise the U.S. by embroiling it in a sex scandal.
There is nothing in Obama that a talented 10th grader in debate class couldn’t mop up with one hand on the mop. Now you see why I say that Obama is all of our creation? Until now no one has been able to knock him off his perch. Now you see why I try to cool down those on the BC comments who work themselves into a froth over Obama’s secret designs on the American Constitution via Frank Marshall by way of Karl Marx? He has no articulate opposition among those in power. (Scott Brown may be a wild card here – let’s see) It’s that Obama has no one to stand up to him. Obama’s rhetorical feints and strategies are old hat by now. Why can no republican go after him? Why does no republican simply call him on his BS? After the SOTU speech the republicans should have staged a three way panel of congressional or senate leaders in which they mocked and shredded the speech. They would have driven the MSM mad and won over 70% of the nation. Too bad, republicans are incapable of creative forceful response to Obama. He is an extremely fragile man and the republican leadership should be able to maneuver him into position to lay him out cold. Look what happened today. Nada. He walks into the republican lair and mops the floor with them, just like any talented smarmy grad student in front of a bunch of unsteady ossified old bankers. Obama, our president, is a total American package, a total American joint-creation.
I have not read all of the comments. But I want to post this early and have it out there. I was watching this …. meeting at it’s start today on Fox. (I couldn’t get hands free for a moment to change the channel.)
The Zero said this and I must paraphrase because I have not found a transcript.
“.. they say to keep your friends close and go talk to the Republicans every two months….”
THAT my friends was what they call a tell at the poker table. The real quote is:
Now THAT is revealing.
SpeakEasy @ 51:
Yes, the Republicans have offered ideas on every item Obama’s tackled. On health care, to name one, Republicans have offered a raft of proposals, including key proposals such as tort reform which is essential in any health care reform seriously aimed at reducing costs. Allowing insurance companies to compete more freely across state lines is another very important and significant idea they’ve advanced this year. Another has been to keep Medicare Advantage, which is a rare thing: a popular, successful government program that is reducing costs. Medical savings account expansion is another important idea. There’s been lots more.
Lots of amendments and some bills have been put forth by the GOP during this past year. All of them are non-starters for the Democrats, however. Every single one. The Dems have locked the Republicans out of the negotiations, and I mean that quite literally. Locked them out of the rooms. Obama’s performance where he said he’s all ears to anybody’s ideas was quite disingenuous. He has not been open to GOP input in the slightest way, and Congress is being run in the same old dark style of a barony right now.
But on other fronts —- the Obama administration is now reviewing college football’s BCS system on anti-trust grounds. Careful now, where I come from in Texas you’d be fool to be messing around with football. Screw up the economy and so forth, that’s bad and all, but such things happen. Yet if you mess up football you will never, ever be forgiven. I’m continually amazed by the non-chalant ease with which the statist pokes his nose in places where he doesn’t belong, and makes a federal case of everything.
It’s wise to let sleeping dogs lie sometimes. They never seem to get that.
The American political class, whether Republican or Democrat, has much more in common with themselves than the people they pretend to represent. Most of them are bound by nasty little social ties that are more important to them than anything else, and party lines really don’t mean much of anything. In their world integrity and honesty is ridiculous and contemptible. Its all about them. Its a family business but good workers can get a good position though good sucking work.
Its time to throw them down. All of them.
Thanks to Delia @ 30 I captured the quote.
Is that a tell or what? The Republicans are the enemy in his mind.
RagnarD,
Most educated people know the Sun-Tzu quote. Obama was making a stupid joke about the Republicans being his enemies (the comment wasn’t a “tell”).
We have seen the comparison made in here before. Obama is like Saruman in LoTR. He insults and woos his victims before each other, moving from one to another. Unfortunately the scene at Orthanc was done badly in the movie. Peter Jackson skipped over this point in the released movie among many others that I think would have been wonderfully script ready and only a deleted video scene, that misses the quality in the book that I am describing of arrogant sequencing with the corrupt Saruman’s repeated efforts to be seductive to those he has insulted, is available to illustrate my point.
Regarding Obama’s line about keeping your enemies closer than your friends, it is more likely that Obama and his Chicago friends were thinking of Mario Puzo’s The Godfather than Sun Tzu’s The Art of War.
To be blogged under the title “The Cunning Mind.”
Something is wrong with the HTML on this page. I had to adjust my screen position all the way to the left just to bring some of the comments into view.
I watched the entire exchange at the retreat, not just Rush’s cherry-picked and edited snippets. What I saw was our President respectfully, intelligently, confidently and effectively respond to all questions and attacks leveled at him. One-hundred-forty congressmen had days to script their assault, and Obama went in with no foreknowledge of what was to come. He emerged having won the debate, and embarrased those who place party over country.
I am entirely sure he will never again be invited to such a gathering, and that those who agreed to the Presidents request to televise the event are suffering extreme remorse.
I know the results won’t be ‘popular’ at Pajamas but…..The President OWNED the GOP today…..I don’t mean he owned them in the “trash and burn” sense. It was worse. He owned the GOP in a “use a scalpel, instead of a sledgehammer” manner. There will NOT be a repeat of today’s “debate”, in the future. When Republicans made intelligent points, Obama acknowledged them (ex. Paul Ryan)…When the GOP resorted to documented talking points; the President: 1. Dismissed them AS talking points…2. Outted the political operatives who devise them (Frank Luntz) and 3. Accomplished ALL of it without embarassing anyone’s spouse or kids who were in attendence.
The Script Kiddies come tumbling in like ill trained puppies but not nearly as cute. A chance to test Tocque.
“The whole thing basically went like [this]: Republican asks obnoxious question rooted in Glenn Beck-ian talking points; Obama swats it away, makes the questioner look silly, and then smiles at the end. It got so bad, in fact, that Fox News cut away from the event before it was over. Democratic operatives around Washington watching it had pretty much the same reaction: “Where the hell has this guy been?” One source said GOP aides probably wished they’d spoken to John McCain “about what happened to him in the presidential debates” before they broadcast the event. “It’s quite a show,” a White House official said, apparently going for the same deadpan tone the president was.” -Mike Madden
And one more quote – this one from Ezra Klein – priceless:
“Yesterday, I interviewed David Axelrod and was struck by his inability to explain how the White House would highlight the the difference between disagreement and obstruction. Today’s session, if it becomes a regular event rather than a one-off, provided part of the answer. He’ll debate them directly. But that may be tough to do. Republicans are already spreading the word that they made a mistake allowing cameras into the event. Apparently, transparency sounds better in press releases than it does in practice.”
One more quote – this one from Ezra Klein – priceless:
“Yesterday, I interviewed David Axelrod and was struck by his inability to explain how the White House would highlight the the difference between disagreement and obstruction. Today’s session, if it becomes a regular event rather than a one-off, provided part of the answer. He’ll debate them directly. But that may be tough to do. Republicans are already spreading the word that they made a mistake allowing cameras into the event. Apparently, transparency sounds better in press releases than it does in practice.”
#60 LOTM—
Exactly. My contention is, for what it is worth, that Obama has committed the sin of Saruman. He has promised allegiance to all, been loyal to none, and now he has to fear the wrath of all.
And his last weapon, like Saruman’s when Gandalf and Theoden stood before him, is the lie. And after that fails, he has no weapons at all.
Sadly, he is the supposed leader of my country.
Gimme a break #66 Tcobb! The President of OUR country is obviously Aragorn Strider.
Legomyeggoplant – Wells, since I am surely not as edumacated as the denizens here I guess I’ll fade back into the woodwork. Thanks fer schoolin’ me. I am glad to know what my opinion should be if’n I were as edumacated as ya’ll.
*
D. Carney – No. More like Boromir.
#67
WormTongue is the the more apt analogy.
Yeah, all you new guys who’ve never posted here but have suddenly jumped in, I agree! Obama sure schooled those dumb righties! He’s a master debater and a brilliant mind.
So, now that he’s done showing how brilliant he is and how dumb his enemies are, can he move onto actually, I dunno, fixing something? Given how stupid and useless his opponents are, they shouldn’t be able to stand in the way, so don’t go blaming them.
Tcobb,
Sadly, he is the supposed leader of my country.
My 1:40 AM guess is that Obama thinks of himself as the leader of, or at least a product of, not your country but Another Country. Not the country of Indonesia but that of James Baldwin’s novel with bohemians in Greenwich Village exploring racial, sexual and artistic boundaries. Obama sees himself as the heir of these outsiders. He possibly thinks he has a special spiritual wisdom, that makes him sympathetic to Satomayor’s sense of justification as a “wise latina.” He deals with the squares with studied civility that seems to be stretched over a deep reservoir of contempt.
There is nothing wrong with the child of that mother and that father who grew up in those surroundings with those influences that is all that hard to understand. Whether it can be cured is another problem.
To be blogged under the title “Another Country.”
Tcobb @ Jan 29, 2010 – 10:16 pm:
Because with the election of Scott Brown, so many viewed his win as a success along the lines of your conclusion, then you may find this troubling:
Now, that might mean that he’s not inclined to the beltway. But it’s more likely it’s that he’s inclined toward his re-election in a blue state, that is usually meant keeping those “in his nasty little social circle” happy.
What that means is that if we want him to be conservative, I will need to convince 50% of MA voters that becoming a red state is better for them in the long run. And that is likely the case as long as radicals are running the blue party anyway.
I think I have my work cut out for me. I’m still struggling to establish that thinking in 50% + whatever is the number of illegal voters in CA.
I’d be glad for any help.
OT: Wretchard, can I be so bold as to make a request?
I have been a regular visitor to Belmont club for years, and it is far and away my favorite blog. I often feel like an inverse grasshopper to your master from Kung-fu (Does anyone else find that there is eery resemblance between Wretchard and Carradine/Kwai Chang? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4sgXl7n3n4 ). And I feel so outclassed by many of the other posters like Subotai, Life and Whiskey that I rarely dare to make a post.
Anyway, here is my request: My favorite comments engine on the internet is from theburningplatform ( http://theburningplatform.com/economy/jobs-of-the-future ).
This comments engine has the following features:
- Hidden, expandable Subthreads
- Avatars
- Yes/No voting
The only thing it is missing is embeddable youtube clips and more accurate timestamps.
Although I have been somewhat miserly in my donations in the past, I would be willing to donate $100 if you and/or Pajamasmedia were able to implement a more advanced comments system.
Das Obama is Black.
That means that NO REPUBLICAN CAN EVER ATTACK HIM. EVER.
Because Obama is Black. Being Black gives one special privileges in America. A Black man can NEVER be attacked by a White one (unless the Black one is conservative and the White one liberal), and is always assumed to have “magical” powers of oratory, wisdom, etc.
Americans (particularly White Americans) believe these things deeply. No Republican can call Obama on his BS because Americans (particularly White Americans) are deeply invested in the fantasy about Obama and really, Black-White relations as a whole. [It's not really about Obama, as usual about the people who hold the opinions.]
Obama is merely an average level verbal acuity pol. But because he’s Black, the White majority ascribes magical qualities to him, and believes with the fervency of children thinking about Santa that Obama means that Blacks will adopt a color-blind, integrationist attitude and stop being the sort of folks seen in the movie PRECIOUS.
Technical difficulties with the Ajax edit box.
I moved the scroll bar down to where I needed to edit. But the WP AJax edit box contents start to scroll back up in a palsied dance. Nothing I do can keep the edit box and scroll bar steady enough to edit the contents inside this box.
What I resorted to was
1) selecting all (ctrl-A) in the edit box,
2) cutting it all, and then
3) pasting it into a notepad and editing it there,
4) then copying all out of the notepad and pasting it back into the Ajax edit box.
It never did that before until the last couple of days, and tonight was the worst.
Hence this post.
Please forward this to PJ media technicians. I’m using IE8 in XP. The problem occurs whether or not Tocque is enabled.
Thanks
Pascal,
We discussed this problem last year. It is an IE8 under XP problem, something about the java implementation I think. Try “compatibility mode.” There is a button next to the url window.
President Obama’s fellow Nobel Peace Prize laureate Lech Walesa attends a Tea Party in Chicago.
The youth movements in Venezuela and Iran are rising in counter revolution.
Rajendra Pauchari is increasingly beleaguered by professional/ethical questions. (I give him 6 months.) Jones is unlikely to return to Hadley.
Oh, and President Obama (Mohammed) comes to the mountain.
Meanwhile, China is clearing its throat about opening a military base in Pakistan. Russia claims to have developed the counter to the Raptor.
Lines are being drawn.
Something about a Chinese curse and interesting times?
#70. A Nobody
You must have missed out on another of the recent drastic changes in our form of government. Here’s a rundown of some of my revelations from the last decade:
1. Sister Xavier lied to me in second grade. She stated that we as Americans are special, that we have the Constitution that guarantees us freedoms, such as due process, speedy trials, etc. I was pissed at her a few years back when I found out the constitution can be shredded and U.S. citizens (Jose Padilla and others) can be thrown into dark holes for years with no charges, no lawyer.
2. My dad lied to me. He brought back a Bronze Star and a Purple Heart from Germany and told me once “We don’t start wars, we just finish them”. It’s obvious now that we do choose to start wars with no provocation.
And the latest transformation of America, the one that must have slipped by you:
3. Again the Catholic nuns failed me, as I recall one of them saying in civics class that we are a country of majority rule. Not the case! Allowing our new president no “honeymoon” period, the opposition, angered at being out-of-power, announce that a 60-vote super-majority will be required for every congressional action, even down to trivial procedural votes. (Minority activists had also apparently had enough of this new administration and announced a planned “March on Washington” in the second week of February, after suffering a lengthy 3 weeks of not being the ones calling the shots).
So, in conclusion, I have to agree with your statement that our President dislays exceptional competency, but your challege for him to “fix something” may be difficult given our new form of government. It is possible, when the pendulum eventually swings, and the party now in power becomes the minority, that they will care more about conducting the necessary business of our governement than scoring political points, and will not enforce the permanent super-majority rule. On the other hand, were they as childish, as irresponsible, as vindictive, as the current minority, it is possible that it could be decades before anyone is able, in even the smallest way, to “fix something”.
To add to my last statement…
Basically what the “super-majority requirement” imposed by the GOP shows is their total disrespect for the entire American system. Their refusal to allow a President, elected by largest plurality in decades, to enact any policy reflects their complete disdain for the will of the American people. Elected leaders are to be given a chance to govern. If they fail, they are then elected out of office. Anyone with a sense of pride in our history, should find the current actions of the minority disgraceful.
ConfederateH,
I’m locked in the arms of wordpress, but will try to wriggle out that embrace somehow. Regarding – Hidden, expandable Subthreads, Avatars, Yes/No voting — similar functionality is coming soon via the Tocque and with any luck to those of you with browsers other than IE8, FF and Safari.
79. HuskersRising:
“Their refusal to allow a President, elected by largest plurality in decades, to enact any policy reflects their complete disdain for the will of the American people.”
Which ‘American people’ are you referring to? You have seen the polls? America doesn’t want his socialistic crap sandwich.
HuskersRising,
You mean the way they do it in… North Korea?
I dunno… where you got the idea that US political system is an autocracy?
It’s not, at least not yet.
HuskersRising, are you paying attention to the country at all? To the elections? To your super-majority, aided by Northeastern Republicans fairly easily swayed if simply consulted? To the lack of *any* consultation by your hero and his Congressional dynamic duo? To the “we won!” simpleton exclamations that generate nothing but contempt? To the contrary actions of George Bush in his bi-partisan consultations with Democrats?
I mean, damn! Their refusal!?! What level of non-thinking entitled punk are you??? You lose Teddy Kennedy’s seat and *you’re* blaming Republicans?
Come out of the dark over there in that corner, Huskers. Blow your nose, dry your eyes and come to terms with the reality of today.
He screwed you, okay?
In fact, considering your contributions here, you’ve screwed your own damn self and I thank you for that freak show. Fantabulous!
Listen, he can preen all he wants — BFD. He can make tingles run up your leg — so what? Politically, he can change course or die. Period.
#81 Delia –
It’s theme is the nuns lied to it. Its dad lied to it. And America lied to it. Construct a psychology built on those things, and you get a very “special” political philosophy.
Just sayin’.
President Obama slams obstructionist Republicans at GOP issues retreat
WASHINGTON – President Obama dove headfirst into the belly of the GOP beast Friday – and left the not-so-loyal opposition bleeding on a Baltimore ballroom floor.
He skewered Republicans for obstructionist tactics, dubious facts and a lack of civility in opposing his domestic agenda, especially health care reform.
“If you were to listen to the debate and, frankly, how some of you went after this bill, you’d think that this thing was some Bolshevik plot,” Obama told the GOP issues retreat after unveiling a proposal for $33 billion in small-business tax incentives.
House Republican leaders had tried to score political points by inviting Obama to their lair. Problem was, he showed up.
“You’ve given yourselves very little room to work in a bipartisan fashion because what you’ve been telling your constituents is, this guy is doing all kinds of crazy stuff that’s going to destroy America,” Obama said, his face appearing to tighten in anger.
—
Naw, putting businesses under DC’s thumb, and spending us into oblivion, is gonna strengthen America!
Das @ 54 took the words out of my mouth. Obama came away satisfied with his own brilliance when a 10th grade debater could have respectfully asked him much tougher questions. And the Politico story made it sound like the toughest question the Repubs could ask him was: why don’t you support across the board tax cuts? What, not a word about ‘helicopter’ Ben Bernanke or AIG/Goldman boy Timothy Geithner? Or is it because half the GOP caucus would vote to confirm those guys too, or Boehner was afraid O would bring up Paulson and Bush?
No wonder people are turning away from the so-called conservatives to Tea Party candidates in desperation. Boehner was brilliant on the House floor in his takedown of Pelosi’s 3 a.m. edits to the Climate Change bill (too bad only a few hundred people probably watched it), but apparently he lost his wits head to head.
Re: “Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.”
“Education” is a relative term. So I may or may not be considered an “educated person” depending on who is doing the measuring and what the context is.
But whenever I read or hear the phrase above, I immediately think of Vito Corleone and not Sun-Tzu. The quote’s ties to “The Godfather” are documented and indisputable. To Sun-Tzu, not so much, in my understanding … I was under the impression that this saying is one that is misattributed to him.
It’s theme is the nuns lied to it. Its dad lied to it. And America lied to it. Construct a psychology built on those things, and you get a very “special” political philosophy.
You also happen to get just about the entire corpus of Oliver Stone’s work. Funny that.
bogie wheel: I was under the impression that this saying is one that is misattributed to him.
Literal translation:
Know other, know self, hundred battles without danger;
Not knowing other but know self, one win one loss;
Not knowing other, not knowing self, every battle must [be] lost.
Huskers Rising: Their refusal to allow a President, elected by largest plurality in decades, to enact any policy reflects their complete disdain for the will of the American people. Elected leaders are to be given a chance to govern
Nixon won 49 states in 1972, but the Democrats refused to allow him to govern for a complete second term. Clinton won with only 43% of the vote in 1992 (because Numbnuts with the ears split the patriot vote) and Bubba interpreted that as a mandate to attempt to seize 1/7th of the US economy with socialized medicine. Do as Democrats say, not as they do.
Whiskey: Obama is merely an average level verbal acuity pol. But because he’s Black, the White majority ascribes magical qualities to him…
There’s no reason to bring race into the equation at all. Chris Tingle is obsessed with race, and there’s no need to follow his lead. Obama’s policies are sufficiently bad for conservatives to raise objections on purely that basis alone without mentioning skin tone. Skin color truly is irrelevant.
Glenn Beck talking points? Are you Dem posters here kidding? Where? Beck would have asked him about bailouts, bankers, and whether he wants to be President of the World. The GOP asked him questions as if this was still 2005-2006. Tax cuts are enough? They may be necessary, but they are not sufficient.
DCarney “Elected by largest plurality in decades” are you kidding? Obama’s plurality was smaller than Clinton’s in 1996.
“Allowing insurance companies to compete more freely across state lines is another very important and significant idea they’ve advanced this year” How about dropping the Embargo against Cuba so medical tourism to a country ninety miles offshore can drastically cut costs?
The Dems just confirmed their own Maddowian and Olbermannian sense of smug intellectual superiority, enough I fear to keep them driving down the same crash and burn path until the American people unleash their anger in November.
Antitrust investigation of the BCS? How about the three major credit bureaus? What a joke.
Pence effectively calls Obama out on the party of no assertion.
Obama’s reply is dissembling and dishonest.
What else is new?
Someone asked above about the transcript:
Transcript Here
CONGRESSMAN HENSARLING is worth reading.
The rules were no follups on Obama’s answers!
“followups”
Congressman Tom Campbell:
A two thousand nine hundred page Healthcare Bill,
Obama’s argument is that he can cite 50 pages that the
Pubs would agree with, thus they should vote for the Bill!
Wow. This place is sad. Anyone asks the right to share in taking responsibility for the problems facing America, and you poor fragile kittens call it a brutal attack.
What do you think this is, Sunday School? Listen up snowflakes, your opinions on economics, while precious to you and those who’ve fed them to you are worthless beyond the votes they bring.
You think Obama is a communist?
Good thing Reagan didn’t raise taxes while the internet was around. You guys would have had him shot again.
P.S. Love the racism, too. You’re not fooling anyone other than yourselves.
red meat for whiskey:
http://althouse.blogspot.com/2010/01/i-want-to-acknowledge-our-first-lady.html
Personally, I’m disgusted that when Obama admitted that the Dems’ health care plan really didn’t allow people to keep their insurance if they wanted to, as promised, and it would interfere with the doc-patient relationship, he wasn’t called out for it in any effective way. That, to me, was a shocking admission, and the fact that it was ineffectively dealt with makes me lose confidence in the Republicans. Ryan, at the very least, should have had the ability to easily deal with this.
I will say it once again.
Don’t look for the Republican Party or the Republicans in Congress to save the U.S. or even to try and stop big government. They are only marginally better than the Democrats.
To save this Republic, we must replace the politicians with Citizens who don’t want the job but will take it for a short time.
We must make sure that there are term limits, pay limits and a short leash on those we send to DC.
It is our responsibility to elect representatives who know what we want and will get those wants implemented.
The American Citizen is to blame for the demise, default and corruption of our government for the last forty some odd years.
It’s up to us to correct our failings or our Republic will fail because of our inattention and stupidity.
Papa Ray
Re obama’s plurality, wonder how much of it voted for his campaign of flat-out lies?
***
wrf/93; Anyone asks the right to share in taking responsibility for the problems facing America….
This is why Progressives have never solved any of the problems facing America, but have only made them far far worse: Progressives are the ‘problems facing America’.
One of the problems that those in the limelight face when trying to tackle Obie is that he is a consumate liar, and he does this with impugnity because the MSM will cover for him. That only works in the spotlight, though, which is why America is onto him and he can’t regain his traction through such gimmicks.
But it’s also the case that Whiskey’s right. You can’t remove race from the equation, Teresita, when talking about the oligarchs, their world view, their defenses, and the delusional policies that all those things breed.
The problem Barry faces is that he believes that white heterosexual males (and the women who love them) will still serve as sacrificial victims around which the country can coalesce. But everyone now knows they/we are innocent, because they/we elected a black man president. Hence, no more human sacrifices to keep the contempt of the left (see #93, above) from spilling out everywhere and making the most unseemly of messes — for Barry and the Dems most of all.
What worked at the GOP retreat doesn’t work with most Americans because the mask is off. The witch doctor has been shown to be a fraud, so hethey can’t just go around cutting the hearts out of innocents or throwing virgins into volcanoes to calm everyone down anymore.
This will be an increasing problem for him, as the mythology that put him into office — 40 years of race-mongering by the left, in particular — deteriorates and he is increasingly exposed as the contemptuous, elitist, intellectual know-nothing that he is.
So, while the Republicans can’t be so bold as to question the Black President in public, the world view of the bulk of America will leave him in the dust, either politically or by force if it comes to that.
Want more proof of the “Republican Party” stupidity, hedging and pandering?
Republicans reject ‘purity test’
They have forgotten and forsaken what Republican values and policy were and should be.
First and formost they should not have to be told to honor and commit to the oath of office that they take.
Enough-NO more.
Papa Ray
Papa, don’t we all know we just have a preference for the stupid party over the evil party?
A “no follow-up questions” rule makes the reply the last word, by the rule –hence Obama was able to short-shrift the frequent attempts to develop specific informational answers as nudges against that rule (okay to offer a quickie pull-away to the next questioner). As the cmpaign debate formats make clear, the allowance of a follow-up changes everything about what the responder can do to get through the moment.
What the hell were the Pubs thinking when they invited him in the first place?
Any idiot would know that there would be nothing to gain by engaging Buraq in this manner for a long list of reasons, among them:
A. The Media would always spin this meeting as a Obama Victory.
B. Whiskey is right. Obama is black and as such protected in the minds of too many congresscritters.
C. One of the few things Buraq is good at is the snarky condescending put down, particularly edited by the Media. To debate him is to debate a practiced conman/ liar who has no limit on the depths he will go to
embarrass you. A reasonable honest man in this setting more often than not will be overwhelmed and blindsided by his lies.
D. The Pub’s Congressional Leadership clearly has no strategy as to how to deal with this guy and they have hardly ever tried to lay a glove on him, or effectively tried to stop any of his initiatives. Which brings up my last point, much like TCobb and PapaRay have noted, it is not clear that the Congressional Pubs, DeMint and few others excepted, have it in them to confront this sicko treasonous bastard.
“New Economics of Marriage: The Rise of Wives” –> to Whiskey
http://tinyurl.com/y9trklj
@93 (Watching Rome Fall):
“Wow. This place is sad. Anyone asks the right to share in taking responsibility for the problems facing America, and you poor fragile kittens call it a brutal attack.”
Hmm. After reading your comment I thought, ‘Funny, I’ve read all the comments on this thread and I don’t recall seeing anyone characterize Obambi’s performance as “a brutal attack”.
Would you please cite the comment # that forms the basis for your assertion that commenters “call it a brutal attack”?
Thanks.
Otherwise I think we’ll have to conclude that you’re a Dem troll who–in the time-honored tradition of Leftist/socialists everywhere–make unfounded accusations against their opponents to keep them on the defensive.
One more thing: my immediate gut level reaction to this meeting was that the Pubs , by inviting him to their own meeting, on a certain level were honoring Obama’s agenda and legitimizing it, instead slamming Obama’s agenda from here to kingdom come.
Obama is a threat to all that is dear to this country, but true to form, the Rinos in Congress couldn’t help themselves to get yet another meeting with Buraq to show how bipartisan they could be. I want to barf.
To listen to what Obama has to say is to already misunderstand him.
This was a tactical assault from the position the armor was moved to in the middle of the night while sane people were celebrating the victory of Scott Brown in Massachusetts.
What’s the goal?
It’s pretty obvious to me that the goal is to have Scott Brown voting with him in six months.
Susan Collins weekly GOP address really rakes Obama over the coals on the pantybomber.
Commented at Althouse on the thread aaron linked to above.
Why are the wives of Democratic politicians more prone to becoming nightmares than are the spouses of Republicans? It isn’t an absolute, there is good and bad in both demeanor and taste on both sides. This has become a pattern since the 1970s. Lady Bird Johnson and Jackie Kennedy did not display these insecurities. However with Rosalyn, Hillary and Michelle we have a trifecta of angry control freaks. Their archetype may be Eleanor Roosevelt but I suspect that she had more substance and less resentment.
Copied to my blog post on Althouse.
We have got some weaklings in the Republican party as witnessed by this performance. For example, on the “Billionaire”, a simple review of the ’09 Forbes 400 shows that there are 371 billionaires in the US by their estimation. It appears that the average billionaire on this list is worth about $2B.
So if Obama simply appropriated all of their wealth, it would come to approx. $750B. That would be about half of this year’s deficit. Six months worth.
And he would have looted the wealth of our wealthiest capitalists in doing so.
Not one of our brilliant Republican leaders could come up with an answer similar to this?
Face it. Republicans are undeniably a dying breed – and the FAR-right has already immolated itself (so popular with extreme religious zealots – and fine with me BTW) Look at your demographics – for heaven’s sake – look at the faces of the half sitting on their hands during the SOTU. Old and white. I am so happy that I’m young enough to be able to watch you dry up and wither away (or, more unlikely – educate yourself with the facts, put your country first, and do what is right.) Oh, wait I forgot about the fresh, young future of your side – James O’Keefe. GOOD RIDDANCE loonies, this can’t happen fast enough for me.
I don’t usually link to blogs that are not mainstream. But I would like to do so now with your permission.
This blog belongs to Sean Linnane, under the Blog Name. “StormBringer”. Here is his “about” statement.
You can believe that with confidence, he has been there, done that and more, and he has my respect and admiration.
As he should have yours.
Please take the time to read this and watch a very short video, It is dated but it is imperative that we understand and follow up on.
“THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION”
This is at the foundation of what we have been discussing for months on Richard’s BC.
Please take the time to read and watch.
Yes, they have underestimated the American People.
Papa Ray
Papa Ray,
Stormbringer is a regular poster at Theo Sparks spud farm. Always good for news from the wars, popular culture, cutting edge technology and ummm great wonders of nature.
PR @ 111: OK. A tad overwrought, but OK. Just as easy to say that our democratic system, the checks and balances, and the underlying strengths of the American people, are coming through once again.
Sometimes we drive on a little too close to the edge, but perhaps we’re coming through once again. Just need to keep it up through this November. Have 50 more Scott Browns step up to take up the Senate and House seats, and we can be there. We’ve already got the 50 Martha Coakleys.
LOTM Yes indeed, I’ve been a reader of Theo since his conception. And a bastard’s birth it was. And your right he does favor God’s gift to man.
Josh It is time to be “overwrought” in fact forty years past time.
Yes, the strengh of the American people will come though.
ONE way or the awful other.
Buy more Ammo…anyway, just in case.
Papa Ray
@104
“Otherwise I think we’ll have to conclude that you’re a Dem troll who–in the time-honored tradition of Leftist/socialists everywhere–make unfounded accusations against their opponents to keep them on the defensive.”
You’re right on target here. Anytime Obama goes out and makes a fool of himself (as he did with the SOTU), his minions have to come around and inject themselves in every discussion in an attempt to defend him. In this case, this may be an indication that the campaign mode of the white house is starting up again. I wonder if these trolls are back on the payroll.
Stormbringer’s video inspired me to post the following, which had been floating around on the computer for the past week.
It’s based on the old Lizzie Borden song by the Chad Mitchell Trio
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wlO-J0v9ZY
If anyone wants to add or modify verses or set it too music, I’d be honored.
Yesterday in Massachusetts, socialism may have died
And they don’t quite know who to blame for this act of homicide
For in the State of Massachusetts, they say “that can’t be done!”
But Scottie’s gassing up his truck; he’s on the way to Washington
’cause you CAN chop the Liberals up in Massachusetts
How delightful when it comes as a surprise
Yes you CAN knock Obama down in Massachusetts
You can see the desperation in their eyes
Now they don’t know why it happened and they can’t believe what they do see
But there’s a simple explanation; it’s called love of liberty
They think it’s anger or frustration or was it all done just in fun?
No matter what the reason, now Pelosi’s on the run
’cause you CAN chop the Leftists up in Massachusetts
You must do it when they threaten all your rights
Yes you CAN knock Obama down in Massachusetts
For the Lefties this has really got to bite
They owned the seat for decades and planned on many decades more
They were blinded to the truth as the voters were getting mighty sore
So they called Scott Brown a fool and tried to drag him thru the muck
But where they really got in trouble was by dissing Scottie’s truck
’cause you CAN chop the Lefties up in Massachusetts
They deserve it for such gross stupidity
Yes you CAN knock Obama down in Massachusetts
It might teach them ‘bout the benefits of tea
DC/110; how do you geniuses intend to support yourselves once your golden goose (AKA ‘folks who make stuff’) “dies out”? Tip: you ain’t gonna make it competing with foreign brainpower. After you invade & loot Canada and Mexico, what then? Iceland? Koober? Nah, your best bet is to nationalize Barnes & Noble and before it busts out, distribute all the copies you can of “Mandarin fo Dumbasses”. First lesson, how to say “no tickee no laundry” –
***
Oh, and here’s your favorite website –courtesy of those dying out taxpayers who enable the public-employee unions, which felt the need to launder the website’s money source through two or three levels of great patriotic-sounding front organizations.
@89
“There’s no reason to bring race into the equation at all. Chris Tingle is obsessed with race, and there’s no need to follow his lead. Obama’s policies are sufficiently bad for conservatives to raise objections on purely that basis alone without mentioning skin tone. Skin color truly is irrelevant.”
I think there is a good reason to question whether or not race is important in how people view/perceive Obama. Rather, the question is one of just how important it is. In many ways, he’s a more radical version of Walter Mondale, but without the depth of experience and accomplishment. During the election, I called him a hip, young version of Walter Mondale. Indeed, his “policies” when you can discern them from his past actions and his efforts are really tired re-treads of thigns long abandoned. If Obama was caucasian, does anyone think the reaction to his speeches (often much more lackluster than anyone is willing to admit) would be what it has been?
AWH 118
“…a hip, young version of Walter Mondale. Indeed, his “policies” when you can discern them from his past actions and his efforts are really tired re-treads of thigns long abandoned”
Exactly. He may be personally hip and cool, but his policies (1930′s New Deal, 1960′s Great Society) are soooo last century.
Excellent jimbo You wrote this? Outstanding!
Thanks for posting it here.
I’m sure there is someone here that will add to it and maybe even record it.
OK, got to go, taking the kids to the park since this is the first day it has warmed up in a while. Then to the bastion of of our Republic. Whatabuger!
They have an indoor play area there that is more like combat training for kids than anything else.
Papa Ray
D Carney is right. Demographics, political systems, education trends, these critical forces are all working against you, and they form a growing tide that is not abating any time soon.
Is it reversible? I fear it will erupt in blood and tears.
#74 Whiskey – thanks for that response, interesting. I’m thinking about it.
However, do you really think the republicans are held back by Obama’s race? I’m not so sure. Could be, but I’m not so sure. Specifically in the republican meeting he just showed superior debate tactics. Notice how he attacked the question, the style of the question, the context of the question, the meaning of the question. The republicans just stood there mute, like nobody had ever engaged in debate before.
So when I say Obama is all our creation I am not trying to offend BCers who sincerely don’t like the guy. I am trying to say that, yes, Obama grew up with a psuedo- Marxist, grad-student-level leftist background but there is something more going on. He is a guy exposed to many levels of American life and that somehow that exposure didn’t knock common sense into him; something in America elevated him to where he is at and it is not just a Marxist/Alinsky conspiracy.
I see I’m not expressing myself very well. I’ll ponder this and check back in later.
I thought #71 Lifeofthemind’s literary analysis very interesting – “Another Country” – there might be a connection there; Baldwin was heavily invested in a critique of America that placed it very low among the nations – lots to think about here…
@89
“There’s no reason to bring race into the equation at all.”
Except perhaps to mention the most prominent racists of the last year– Henry Louis Gates, Harry Reid, and Chris Matthews.
TWG/121; If what’s at stake is pigment privilege, you’re right and good riddance to it. But what’s at stake is the exuberance of a life of liberty –which of course is impossible without some few certain underpinning principles having to do with free markets and the absence of tyranny –of which the only race relationship is by anecdote of history –who was where & under what conditions when this system began to create itself.
So it’s a safe bet that whatever power of individual grit will keep that system alive into the future, pigment –though not behavior –will continue to be chance and happenstance. As Mz T said the other day, a few hundred years more of free and open travel and we’ll all look Polynesian. But not if we’re dead or chained to the king’s salt mines.
besides which, had HomoSapiensSapiens stayed in one place and one race, we wouldn’t even be here. We’ve hit the bare number of individuals needed to survive at least four or five times in human history, and it was because we were not all in one pot (”utopia?”) that we as as a species survived.
OT
AP: China suspends military exchanges with US.
This is the serious news of the day. While the Obama administration persists in viewing the world through a fantasy prism of 1970s to 90s prejudices in real life events are happening. Almost forty years ago Nixon and Kissinger worked out a modus vivendi with Communist China. That agreement included the recognition that we would continue to sell weapons to Taiwan sufficient to preclude an attack from the mainland while American capital supported the industrial development and technological transformation of China. During that time the Democratic Party has been deeply corrupted by ties to the CCP. These ties have been shown by;
1. massive illegal transfers of defense technology to China,
2. the funneling of large sums of money into American elections by agents of China,
3. support for programs that weaken Western power sponsored by agents of China.
Two examples of the last point are Maurice Strong’s Green program and the UN raporteur system used with acquiescence to China’s abuse of the veto to paralyze Western responses to proxies such as the Iranians.
Now the Chinese are changing the rules and pushing to preclude any American position in the Western Pacific. They are empowered to do this by the massive draw-down in American power that the Democrats have advocated for decades and that has accelerated with the recent economic trauma that Democratic operatives engineered with overseas financial support.
We have returned to the strategic world of the 1930s with China in the role once held by Japan and the Americans more vulnerable than we were 75 years ago. The Chinese position is very unstable both economically and socially. Their drive to dominate could spin out of control or be accelerated in a desperate effort to prevent implosion. The nations of ASEAN, India, Australia, Japan, and South Korea face some very hard choices.
#125 Buddy.
“But what’s at stake is the exuberance of a life of liberty…”
That was great. Dang, the Buddy Larsen that’s made me a fan over the years.
There’s a line forming at Barnes & Nobel for you and your book – where ARE YOU?
Hmm, it seems to me if Obama has such massive support amongst the people (that largest purality ever one of the never posted before people says), then he should have been able to, uh, marshall some of that support. I mean, a great big marching team of angry Obama supporters (pretty much every American except for those dullard holdouts) should have shown those stupid extremist righties what’s what, and the moderate Republicans would have locked into step with their enlightened Democrat brothers and sisters, for fear of losing their seats. If every Republican’s office in their home riding was surrounded by thousands, no, hundreds of thousands of Democrats, they’d certainly support Cap’n Trade, Healthcare and so much more (like taxing those evil BIG OIL corporations).
I mean, the Republicans (the far right type) are a dying breed! How is it that this handful of angry old men hiding in the hills can somehow disrupt the great forces of Progress? A few holdouts, nothing more, yet somehow they can block everything Obama does. All those noble and high goals that will SAVE AMERICA from itself, coming to naught. What a terrible shame. But fortunately, in the years to come, all those children who are being born to conservative families (3, 4 and 5 per) will be overwhelmed and mastered by the huge waves of one designer kid per liberal couple (when they actually have a kid), and their right-wing politics will finally be quashed. Thank goodness. Progress can reign supreme, and progressive policies will run the land to a magnificent future.
By the way, where is all the money going to come from?
LOL–Das, spray enuff verbiage against the wall and *something’s* got to ick –i mean, stick
Obama said lie after lie after lie that could have been demolished: “I am not an ideologue” which should have been: “why do you want to run two car companies, health care, and transfer wealth?”
THAT response did not come because EVERYTHING about Obama (and Michelle Obama) IS ALL ABOUT RACE.
The media tells me one ugly woman (Michelle Obama) is the epitome of grace and feminine beauty, when she looks like a Klingon Lawyer, to poach one of Ace of Spades best comments. The Media tells me Obama is a genius, when he’s garden variety Marxist.
Why? Because White America DESPERATELY WANTS TO BELIEVE that Black Americans will “stop acting Black.” That is, acting like characters in the movie PRECIOUS. Hence, Tiger Woods mania, celebration of first Black coach to win a Superbowl (Dungy, who managed to win only one with THAT team), instant forgiveness of Michael Vick, overlooking the league being 70% Black and only 30% White in a White Majority nation, and so on.
This has been the birth of PC, rooted in a desperate desire to escape unpleasant reality and make something true by believing in it. Clap hard for fairies, ala Peter Pan.
The danger for Obama and Dems is that this belief while deeply rooted is a “nice to have” and one constantly undermined by explicit gangsta rap videos, odious pop stars (Kanye West), vile behavior (Michael Vick), stupid gunplay (Gilbert Arenas) and so on. A nice to have gets ditched quickly in the hierarchy of needs for “must have” i.e. economic growth.
Nevertheless, the appearance of Obama among the Republicans is irrelevant, most people did not see it, and don’t care about TALK, only results.
IF Obama puts around 5 million people back to work he will not lose much in the House and Senate in 2010. If Obama puts about (15 million unemployed/underemployed/stopped looking + 2 million population growth from 2007-2012 [10 million] ) which is 25 million he will be re-elected. If he’s significantly under that he will not be re-elected.
Obama is like David Dinkins, failed mayor of NYC, supersized. Whites voted for Dinkins on the theory that he would magically like a Bill Cosby make Blacks into people with middle class values. After Crown Heights they changed their minds, to the point of electing REPUBLICANS.
The central fantasy Whites have about Blacks is their ability to “change/rescue” the Urban Core. That’s not possible — the only ones who can do it are Blacks themselves, bottom up, and its extremely unlikely. Recently the Berkeley School system dropped science labs because science is “White” and too few Blacks and Hispanics participated. Instead they will spend the money on literacy for Black and Hispanic students. Because, explicitly, “science is White” according to the School Board, Superintendent, and non-White parents.
Obama right now is the Sidney Poitier, Will Smith, Denzel Washington fantasy. When he is in fact, far more whacko Danny Glover than anything else. It is impossible to do anything that will make the White population deeply invested in clapping hard for fairies to let this go — they’ll have to be deeply disappointed by concrete results.
120. Papa Ray:
Thanks for the kind words. Just trying to contribute to the swarm effect.
Would love to hear it put to music.
One lesson that became clear in the first few years I was operating my own little teeny tiny business:
There are bastards who will work harder to screw you out of a pfennig than they would to earn an honest Deutsche Mark.
Simply, they have a hunger that can only be slaked by their triumphant robbery of another human. Sometimes, their satisfaction can come simply from humiliating, embarrassing, humbling, mortifying, and or belittling someone. Making it clear that they are able to exercise POWER over another human is their joy.
Such are the maggot-ridden hyana-turds-with-legs running the present government.
Just in case my writing is too oblique and subtle for people to guess which bastids I’m talkin’ bout.
W/130; Progressivism has loved the inner city damned near to death –
74. whiskey:
Das Obama is Black.
That means that NO REPUBLICAN CAN EVER ATTACK HIM. EVER.
Because Obama is Black. Being Black gives one special privileges in America. A Black man can NEVER be attacked by a White one (unless the Black one is conservative and the White one liberal), and is always assumed to have “magical” powers of oratory, wisdom, etc.
The winds are shifting, ever so imperceptibly, but shifting. The force field created by the racism canard is weakening, and the broad middle class is starting to do the math, and reassessing their stength.
The Obama appearance at the GOP might or might have some tactical significance. In any case, it won’t have any lasting impact one way or t’other.
One issue that has been raised is the “ideas” gap…should the GOP present a spirited, comprehensive intellectual challenge/alternative to Obama’s endless statist agenda (Ryan on HC + ? on climate + ? on taxes/spending + ? on energy, + ? on foreign affairs, etc)? Doing so provides the MSM months of opportunity fire (ketchup as vegetable-type talking points), but it also galvanizes the discourse. I’ve been struck by what Glenn Beck is doing– and I think it is having a major impact. Consequently, my instinct is to take Americans seriously, be consistent and put the issues on the table– especially the economic ones right now. KISS– a promise to cut non-defense spending by x%, across-the-board tax cut of x%, no more earmarks, complete transparency, etc… The Contract worked brilliantly in ’94 because of this simplicity. There was a deliverable that everyone understood– no ephemeral “reform” of this or that– just up and down votes on big issues.
The Left’s options are 1.) snipe/ridicule/etc for 6 mos OR 2.) put up their own honest agenda. #1 is their only option as #2 has demonstrably failed (OHB’s 1st year in office). Can simple consistent ideas beat empty feints for 6 mos? I think so.
Just made a bitty little contribution to Sue Lowden, candidate for U.S. Senate from Arizona, Republican woman trying to unseat the perfidious and stinky Hairy Reed.
…just sayin’…
The clickable hypertext embedded above links to her website.
54. Das:
There is nothing in Obama that a talented 10th grader in debate class couldn’t mop up with one hand on the mop. Now you see why I say that Obama is all of our creation?
Agreed. The process has literally been a hundred years in the making. We started to shift away from general constitutional and republic type principals back then, and even such luminaries as Teddy Roosevelt and Woodrow Wilson started to diss both the Constitution and the Founding Fathers. John Dewey started the meme thet the “edumacated class” knew best, and held most Americans in contempt. His concept of public schooling was steeped in his philosophy of contempt for the “broad masses” (that’s when ‘We The People’ started to become ‘The Masses’ instead). Margaret Sanger promoted stealthy extermination, and PLanned Parenthood was founded in her name. Prohibition was the Perfect Storm of social engineering-style public policy, with the spiritual great-grandparents of today’s progressives and social conservatives joining forces to make more than half of America’s adults criminals overnight. It was Herbert Hoover who declared that Americans had a “right” to own a home, and it was he who created what would eventually become Fannie Mae.
It is frustrating to watch how ineffectual the ‘official’ opposition is to Obama. But then, when that ‘oposition’ is itself ambivalent in its political and governance philosophy, it makes for wobbly legs.
Re Teresita all tanned brunet people…
Not going to happen. There would be a lot of mongrels, and people sporting all shades and shapes. You’d have oriental looking blondes (here in Vancouver BC, saw some blonde blue-eyed oriental types–almost alien quality), or redhead blacks, etc, though majority would be a bit as Teresita posits. It’s genetics and we would always have a periferal variability, because that is how our species ensures survival.
Like, in all those jokes about the magic lamp and the geni offering to fill your any wish, where the punch line is the catastrophic disaster befalling your failure to have chosen carefully enough the exact wording of your wish:
http://realclearpolitics.blogs.time.com/2010/01/29/obamas-stunning-admission/
#128 – FYI I was born and raised by conservative republicans (one, a 25 year incumbant legislator) – I know exactly how you good ol’ boys make sausage, and your sausage tastes like crap. (You know I love ya though Dad.)
So make all the babies (which you can’t afford to raise) you want. It’s about brains and ideas – not mindless parental indoctrination. Stay in school kids!
PS – The money will come from wherever it is right now.
The money will come from wherever it is right now –that’d be them groves of money trees hidden in Area 51, right?
Buddy, let him be, he never liked toilet paper anyway.
Yea, indoctrination…that’s really funny!
Who wants to spell projection?
okay, twoby –i won’t say any more –i won’t say that affording babies will be no problem as soon as John Galt reforms the IRS so we don’t have to pay for current progressive long-range financial planning:
“hey, let’s get the money from wherever it is now!”
>>”And where’s THAT?”
“Uh, I dunno, I thought YOU knew.”
>>”Well, I don’t!”
“Uh oh.”
I looked at the video above.
I thought that obama made reasonable points about the deficits and tax cuts and growing the economy.
The problem was that while these were republican priorities Obama’s governments priorities in the the first year of his office were not about growing the economy and decreasing the deficit.
Rather his priorities were about paying back the people who got him there and consolidating and institutionalizing democrat gains.
It’s about brains and ideas – not mindless parental indoctrination. Stay in school kids!
Yup. Everyone knows that mindless governmental indoctrination is much better than mindless parental indoctrination, and you can’t get your fair share unless you stay in public schools.
And that way we will all be equal, or equally stupid, whichever comes first.
And by the way, what is an “incumbant?” Is that anything like an “incumbent”, or is it a type of sore you get from a STD? …just curious.
You are safer in war than ever before.
Counting casualties is fraught with uncertainty; scholars’ estimates vary according to how they define war and what sources they accept as reliable, among other factors. Nevertheless, a clear trend emerges from recent studies. Last year, 25,600 combatants and civilians were killed as a direct result of armed conflicts, according to the 2009 Yearbook of SIPRI, the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute, to be released Aug. 17. Two thirds of these deaths took place in just three trouble spots: Sri Lanka (8,400), Afghanistan (4,600), and Iraq (4,000). In contrast, almost 500,000 people are killed each year in violent crimes and well over 1 million die in automobile accidents .
#140 D Carney
You might have wandered into the wrong blog and wrong thread…whatever sausage you are peddling…I was raised in democratic liberal wonderland with Pete Seeger LP albums my mom brought home from the library, taught by FDR loyal dems in elementary school and later, in high school, sat at the feet of Scoop Jackson a frequent houseguest, so I just might be made of the sausage that yr peddlin’…
Even so it’s a new day. Since 1972 the right that you would so eagerly demonize is a very much leftized right, perhaps not now the white patented leather exclusive dodo country club right of your origins…can’t say the same for the left which clings to its stale unchanging visions of superior intellect and superior compassion…now fast becoming bitter clingers at that…(ps give dad my love)…
Ya got me. F for spelling. Enjoy your victory dance – it’s one of the few you sweeties have left.
I should have put a little winky-face
Next to “The money will come from wherever it is now.” – Ya’ll know we’ll be re-appropriating it from republicans and their parasitic corporations… so get ready you tax-dodging fat-cats.
I wonder how many of you were asking “where will the money come from?” When that dolt Bush and his holy-rollers were in power turning surplus to deficit… Oh, that’s right – the rapture is coming anyway. You betcha!
PS. I wore my “never posted here before” title like a badge of honor. Kind of sad I have to retire it now… But maybe it’s worth it -Perhaps you can show me the light, take me to school as it were. Even if it’s just for spelling.
To 140,
I am very much offended by your accusation of my being American! I will have you know that I am a foreigner, and as such, you need to accord me and my views respect and understanding. For as your leader has stated, our views must be listened to and accomodated, and your transgressions must be apologized for. I will expect your apology immediately.
I see what you mean, now, however! The underhanded Republicans have been manipulating the people into not supporting Obama as they initially did! They must be using rightwing media- the whole of your media is over-run with right-wing thought, like Olbermann’s arguments and Chris Matthews’ rants. This dangerous poison is being used to shut down loyal Progressive thought! It may even be that the HAARP project is using, as we speak, its troposhere-altering rays to create further dissension.
But still, there is the internet. It is still free! Maybe the Democratic Underground and Daily Kos sites can be used as bases for the necessary gathering of people to stand strong against the mental subversion of the Republicans!
Children that cannot be afforded! Yes, of course! And as good progressives know, almost no children can be afforded! I say to you my good friend, go forth and DO NOT MULTIPLY! Save mother Gaia now. Any who slip through will be a terrible burden on your excellent educational system. Why, they may not even develop left-wing leanings!
I see you are advocating the use of the printing press to solve the money problem. Excellent, a most agreeable solution! Best of all, the people will be able to use their newfound wealth for important tasks like insulation, wallpapering, home heating and toilet paper. This is perhaps the strongest argument for progressive solutions.
The Art, Carney, is in knowing *who* da Man. What Das is saying is, *YOU* da Man.
(and he right, too!)
***
Re #149, well, gee, no need to get all perturbed (or as you might put it, ‘parterbed’).
148 Das – Begging your pardon – I am far younger than you – raised on Limbaugh. (Who I believe incidentally is a card carrying member of the allegedly extinct “white patented leather exclusive dodo country club”)
140. D. Carney:
“It’s about brains and ideas – not mindless parental indoctrination.”
Yes indeed – “brains & ideas”
Unfortunately, the Left is intellectually bankrupt. Where exactly is there any indication of brains and ideas in ObamaCare? All those superior minds and what do they produce as their pièce de résistance?
Two thousand pages of bureaucratic gibberish with Bernie Madoff financing.
I’m starting to get the impression that the sum total of the Left’s ideas really comes down to just two points.
1. Put us in charge of your lives and it will all work out for the best.
2. “The money will come from wherever it is right now.”
Brilliant.
Carney,
You’re a walking refutation of your own positions, friend. You could go back through dozens of BC threads and not encounter a mention of the rapture – except as an inside joke or something. But here you come guns blazing raking the terrain with this lefty bugaboo. It shows that the conversation that you run with yourself is not based on anything real. Just leftoid buzz cliche. Wipe the cliches from your mind and then come back, you’d be welcome, bub.
Oh for goodness sake! Let’s stop all this silly cross-talk.
We can all agree that the Republican Party is dumb. They got Obama to come to their retreat. All they had to do was ask him to begin by leading the Congressmen in the Pledge of Allegiance on live TV – to demonstrate to one and all that Country is more important that any politics or politicians. This would have given Obama a chance to show that what binds us together is more important than the issues which separate us.
No teleprompters during the Pledge of Allegiance either.
Unsk @ 105:
Yup. As I said before I caught the start of this …. exercise in .. whatever. One of the things that stuck besides The Zero’s ‘friends’ remark was Boehner. And again I paraphrase, he said something like – “..America did not send us to this place (DC) to not work with others. They did not give us this power to not tend to what they think is important.”
The part that disturbs me is the “power” … I would say, “Hey, Boehner, we did not send you there to wield ‘power’ but to SERVE.”
The RINO’s are clueless and just worshipping the tentacles of the monster hoping not to be eaten first or second.
D. Carney is really vivo in another avatar, right? Hey, D, where does money come from? Can you answer that and you cannot cheat and say “Senator Daddy”. Hmm?
Das, (Friend) – Republicans disown their rapture-awaiting base at their own peril… Bugaboo my foot. From Bush’s “shining city on a hill” baloney to Palin’s delusional gibberish. Religious fundamentalists and Conservative Republicans are locked in an embrace that the latter will not be able to extricate itself from. But fine Das, deny thy father and refuse thy name. I’m all for a little tragic romance.
D/154; “walking refutation” goes sadly even deeper –in the carney new world whooping up the boojwahzee as criminal, employers will just quit, and the people will be quickly back to a not-long-ago world where your chances of making a decent life really DID depend on having brains & ideas –the knack of critical thinking plus a little gumption and then IF fortune smiles you might be ready.
Evidence (including on this thread) is everywhere overwhelming that the carneys are not prepared, and will be the last to understand that. Walking refutations, and the engines of their own undoing. History repeating as farce –and reminding that farce is not necessarily light entertainment.
Of course the warnings are all a click away –search Lenin (and Leninism is what this is) and see that the workers of 1917 had found by 1921′s compulsory labor laws that the ‘worker’s paradise’ was just such a farce, and even less entertaining, as they were all back to doing what they had done before, only this time not getting paid, and under the Red Guard bayonets.
whiskey @ Jan 30, 2010 – 1:08 pm:
Ex-pat in Oz @ Jan 30, 2010 – 1:37 pm:
Agreed. In the end, a dog and pony show is still just a dog and pony show.
re: “I am not a Bolshevik.”
Great, then we can expect him shortly to act on this conviction by:
(1) privatizing everything he’s nationalized, including some institutions he inherited (like the GSEs, Education, etc.)
(2) firing a few union heads in the broken industries (in the same he caused presidents and CEOs to leave major corporations).
(3) reducing the pages of regulation to 10% either by outright elimination or rethinking down to simple principles (of no regs where there’s competition, and/or waived when there is demonstrated impact of so-called negative externalities on ownership and management, both personally and by their families).
(4) a few “acts against interests” special and personal (perhaps cap the number of lawyers graduating in the U.S. until our ratio of citizen to lawyer approaches Japan.. or Taiwan.. or Germany.
(5) strengthen the states and return responsibility to them for everything but those things only a central government can do, and do well (as an means of insuring that Bolshevism can’t ever take root in the Federal government)
(6) ?
Or perhaps he’s just delusional, a Bolshevik and does not know it.
For starters RagnarD the Democratic healthcare plan would reduce the defecit by a trillion dollars in 10 years. (Legislator – not Senator, couldn’t afford it.)
PS I have no idea who this vivo person is.
161 D. Carney
For starters RagnarD the Democratic healthcare plan would reduce the defecit by a trillion dollars in 10 years.
Right, and monkeys will fly out of Obama’s ass. There is nothing whatsoever about this healthcare plan which will do anything but add to the deficit.
imho Obama is moving on the trail blazed by Clinton after he lost the healthcare battle in 1993. He is tracking toward the center. Likely he knows that there is considerable danger that he’ll lose majorities in congress. great, that means that he’ll take up republican legislation and do what clinton did. clinton fought and demonized the newt’s republicans while taking credit for their legislation that moved the country to a balanced budget. newt was trashed for his efforts and clinton got a second term.
this is the playbook
Bill Clinton in the fall told the democrats that it would be worse for them if they lost the obamacare fight than if they won it. Now that they are close to losing Obama is free to take a different tack.
The awfulness that you’re hearing is the pubbies realizing they are being boxed into a position of making the Mack Daddy as Dr Manninga calls him — look good.
Here’s the lyrics to the Greatful Dead’s “Steal your face”– with some back and forth as to what it means afterwords
D/161; Defecit: noun; the condition of sitting down while owing trillions of dollars causing an emptying of the lower colon.
Que fascinating Don Rodrigo… That’s not what the Congressional Budget Office told me.
Republicans disown their rapture-awaiting base at their own peril…
Funny, that part of the “base” stood down here in Virginia. Didn’t see it standing up in New Jersey, or Massachusett(e)s, either.
Hmm, maybe those third-chromosome flat-earthers understand that discipline brings great rewards.
Or maybe Independents would rather gamble on the fruits of traditional Christianity instead of voodoo economics mixed with Ujaama.
Mad Fiddler @ 136: That would of course be to Sue Lowden, candidate for U.S. Senate from NEVADA, Republican woman trying to unseat the perfidious and stinky Hairy Reed.
http://www.suelowden.com/index.php/about-sue/
Sounds like a good person.
http://www.suelowden.com/index.php/nevada-issues/job-creation/
A bit wordy.
157. D. Carney:
Das, (Friend) – Republicans disown their rapture-awaiting base at their own peril… Bugaboo my foot. From Bush’s “shining city on a hill” baloney to Palin’s delusional gibberish. Religious fundamentalists and Conservative Republicans are locked in an embrace that the latter will not be able to extricate itself from. But fine Das, deny thy father and refuse thy name. I’m all for a little tragic romance.
That is so strange — the notion that religious fundamentalism is at the heart of and a captor of the American right, or even conservative Republicanism. It is, however, a common meme among liberals and outright leftists — proving that they are as capable of simplistic bigotry as they claim this ‘right wing’ is. Such notions are akin to claiming that all gays are effeminate, or that all liberals are atheists, or something. Also, “Shining City on A Hill” was a Reagan phrase, not a Bush one, and it comes from John Winthrop’s speech on the founding of the Massachusetts colony (you will find that us ‘right-wingers’ are generally better versed in American history than our detractors). You know, the ‘Massachusetts’ with no extra “e” in it that must have suddenly gotten invaded by right-wing rapture-seekers so they could vote in a Republican Senator?
This ‘right wing’ is getting bigger, NOT ‘dying out’ as the votes in Kennedy Territory (for those who can’t spell ‘Massachusetts’) and New Jersey have demonstrated.
Buddy – It’s spelled deficit.
The Congressional Budget office, if anyone would bother to ask or search, does NOT analyze anything other than the documents handed over by the body requesting the analysis. This is why you keep hearing inexplicable side stories about leaving out hundreds of billions in doctor payments, and double counting certain income streams. Congress –in order to fool the people and give the state media a talking point –reversed the meaning of CBO analysis, by starting with the score it wanted (carney’s parrot phrase) and then working backwards, massaging behind closed doors the source data until the combo was found to fit carney’s bumper sticker. or bicycle fender sticker.
IOW, carney, and i say this not to fight for the fun of it, but in sincere hope that YOU will look into the matter; Congress has perpetrated a HUGE, almost unbelievable fraud, with those numbers.
It’s as if i brought you a piece of paper saying that if i brought you a hundred dollars every day, how much would you have at the end of the week –of course the right answer is $700 –but that doesn’t mean you will get the money –only if the conditions on the piece of paper were to be met, what would you have. that is the ‘true’ part. That is the ONLY true part –but it’s enuff for crooked pols to hide behind.
Don’t believe me, tho –do, look it up. Or if necessary ask someone to help you look it up.
(carney, re defecit, check yr #161)
169. D. Carney:
Buddy – It’s spelled deficit.
Look at how you spelled it in #161.
OK. I can see that you’re a kid who’s out of his league. I’m done.
The debate format was like giving a teenager the final word in an argument. He could not have been called on his evasions. If the GOP had their wits about them, they would have coordinated their questions to break open the wooly thinking a bit.
Both sides will come out feeling victorious.
But Buddy everything you say about Lenin might be true but true socialism has never really been tried…(we’ll let the carneys fill in the rest);
Meantime Carn, old pal, I’m still waiting for all those Great Rapture and Great Tribulation debates that you’ve culled from the Belmont Club over the years. Yeah, they abound…still waiting…I won’t deny that evangelicals tend republican but so what? Black Americans claim the same fervent Christian faith as evangelicals and they tend left/democratic in politics. Am I now supposed to demonize black Americans because of their fundamentalist Christian faith? Hint: you can tell much about the quality of a man’s mind by the anthologies that he draws and the metaphors that he strikes. Julian Bond is fond of saying the American right wing is the ‘Taliban wing’ of the republican party. Does that strike you as in any way intelligent or descriptive? To me it shows that Bond’s mind has deteriorated over the decades and that he doesn’t feel the need to describe but only strike quasi-entertaining rhetorical blurbs – perhaps for the enjoyment of young minds like yours that delight in over-the-top invective over analysis. As far as turning one’s back on one’s father, well, you’re the one who came on here blasting about turning away from the faith of your father.. I suspect your stance is emotive and rooted in emotional disturbance vis a vis father/son conflict than reason. We need to see other than Olbermann spittle from you if you’re going to play with the big boys. So, about the rapture…
This post has been removed by the idiot who wrote it. In the great words of Emily Latella, “Never mind.”
Das, LOL, right you are (they are), it’s “never been tried”…because…it always gets stuck on the damn bayonets. Every time! funny that. Almost like gravity or somethin’.
#173 Das
Actually there have been many posts written on this blog about the “rapture.” However, all of those in my memory consist of the current Progressive rapture–you know, that “tingle” you feel in certain parts of your body when you hear Obama speak.
Let’s be honest now.
This is a graphic of the gas fields in the USA.
I’m aware of how I spelled it. Seeing as it wasn’t the fist time I’ve been called out on my spelling by you guys, I was going for irony (really, posting about spelling errors in a comments section seems such a waist of time.)
Republicans and Democrats both view CBO numbers as objective and realistic. Sorry you’re not based in that reality Buddy – you should join us. I understand you’re more comfortable with your nose buried in the pages of a steamy Ayn Rand novel (just don’t let your Christianist base know – they might not be as crazy about that as they are about everything else.) And Das, I suppose back Americans are just better at keeping their ‘church’ out of their ‘state’ (most of the time.) Now Mormons, I’m sure you know, are quite a different story!
As for previous discussions ’round these parts about the rapture – If you’ll re-read what I wrote, I said that (tongue slightly in cheek) as a possible explanation for George “Chosen by God” Bush’s surplus-killing spending spree.
And you just KNOW that’s what your previous vice presidential nominee is ALL about. Crusade anyone?
But ok “big boys” you win. I think I’ll vote Republican next time. However, I was comparing the American right to the Taliban before Julian and I demand credit. The parallels are striking.
PS For Das: right you are, please love me daddy.
Buddy
If it were not for the danger to my family and the rest of America’s children, I would be tempted to wish for Obama’s Red Guard to attempt to subdue our Republic.
We down here in Texas have so much anger and frustration that we could forget that Rebelion and Revolution are or should be the last resort.
Plus I’m getting to be older than dirt and don’t want to miss it.
Charles Good link except that they make it sound like all the gas in the lower 48 is in Shale. NOT true. In Texas there are wells that are producing it the old and easy way and don’t look to give out for years and years.
America and Canada have vast reserves of Gas. Enough to last hundreds of years.
T-Bone has the right idea, go with gas and follow with other energy sources such as wind to supplement our coal driven energy since the eco-terrorists won’t let us have the nuclear and hate the oil.
Papa Ray
I want to make an appeal for charity. This infighting I see here that’s sprung up of late is a major turn-off
Every one of us posts and cogitates according to our variously dervived world views. That’s fine, that’s natural, we should all welcome every comment backed by this elusive idea of universitas.
What does that mean? It means the somebody is going to say something that pisses you off and offends you to the core, and that he or she will do so casually, maybe even not aware of the offense.
So, let’s let it go. Well argued points win the day, not pussy-foot. Let’s hold forth debate with an intent to fix our eye on the various problems and come up with intelligent things to say about it.
Lately, a lot of ink has been spilt back and forth regarding status and personal attacks. Always, these lines of questioning are not productive.
Let’s not get bogged down in melodrama, let’s keep our eye firmly dedicated to thinking about the core problems we face.
Thanks,
Cowboy
OK Carn, we get it; we actually got you and your fistfull of cliches about four miles before you got here but, O well. Back to the cloaca maxima of Daily Kos with you, where you can splash and frolic in endless fetor…see a shrink along the way about why you need to mention breaking with your father before stating your political opinions…
Good people permit me to suggest that while we should all approach a new voice in a spirit of good fellowship and open inquiry we should also adopt a three exchange rule. If after a third encounter a commentator fails to respond maturely and resorts to defamation, ridicule and embarrassing exposures of personal problems that could credibly be considered as efforts to impede the functioning of the forum or to obscure other subjects then they should be placed on Ignore, possibly with the aid of Tocque, and left to do what they do best, masturbate in the corner.
The thing to do with the unclubbable who seek to soil the rug in the Club is to Club them decisively so there is no ambiguity as to where they belong. Permit me to demonstrate.
You lad, I do not say Sir as that is an honorable term that I have no reason to believe that you have earned, are confused about many things. Among them are basic matters of documented historical record, principles of physical causality and economic realities and the most simple and nearly universal laws of acceptable social conduct. Unfortunately your ability to properly process information in these areas is clouded by you own sense of dysfunction and rage caused by the hostility that you can not conceal regarding your own father and the community that produced you. You inability to accept and function within that community may be aggravated by your own social and sexual dysfunction and insecurity that you project out into hostility towards your father and others who you presume to identify with him. That is your problem and not anyone else’s. Here is another piece of bad news for you. Your mother had sex with your father and probably enjoyed it. The fact that you were produced is merely an unfortunate result. Everyone concerned probably had better hopes. You are a terrible person, now go away and do not bother your betters again.
It must be a source of some grief to Teresita when some preening fool out of a cable television unreality show comes around to reinforce all the worst stereotypes about homosexuals. The equivalent for some of us would be if a relative from the Old Country came to visit and acted like they were auditioning for a road show production of Borat. It becomes hard to argue for the repeal of Don’t Ask Don’t Tell after meeting such a person. Not because of any interest in what they might do on their own time behind closed doors but because they are simply the kind of person who, issues of sexuality completely aside, should never be given access to weapons or trusted to act correctly in an emergency. That does not mean that the linkage of the two issues is fair or even rational in all cases. Todd Beemer, whose father spoke at the Foley Square rally against the KSM trial, proved the contrary. It was an honor to shake that gentleman’s hand and thank him for raising his son to be a Man. Until we come up with more accurate ways to measure fitness we must use the tools we have.
To be blogged under the title “Clubability.”
THAT, Cowboy – is the spirit. As a newbie, I apologize for any of my previous, knee-jerk transgressions. I came here wondering how anyone could spin our POTUS’s talk with Republicans in Baltimore as anything less than noble and admirable (to say nothing of the facts he laid out.) I may have been hasty in my judgements and declarations towards you all but you may (or may not) find it interesting that I read Andrew Sullivan every day (as he is a conservative I can really get behind – please don’t cue the gay jokes here.) I suggest you all do the same. Palinites, I’m afraid, may be a lost cause here but here’s a link to his blog http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/ and I’d reccommend picking up a copy of his ‘The Conservative Soul’ if you get the chance. If anyone of you is interested in a bridge from people with your point of view (Buddy, Das and Don Rodrigo) to people with mine – Sullivan may be just the architect.
LOTM: It must be a source of some grief to Teresita when some preening fool out of a cable television unreality show comes around to reinforce all the worst stereotypes about homosexuals. The equivalent for some of us would be if a relative from the Old Country came to visit and acted like they were auditioning for a road show production of Borat.
No grief at all, because I do not bracket myself or other people into groups. I treat everyone on a case-by-case basis. That means that I do not accept guilt or shame or grief for the poor choices of other people, even if the same sex makes their tail wag faster like it does mine.
Because I do not bracket myself into the “Republican” group, I do not defend GOP talking points with the same “tribal” blind faith with which some CoJCoLDS folks will defend the status of Joseph Smith as a prophet even when their own family members begin to question it.
Many Belmont Club members will recall that late in 2008 I was very upset when Bush came up with the $700 billion dollar TARP program, and McCain ladled another $140 billion dollars of pork on it to get it passed. Sure, it ended up only costing taxpayers a net $99 billion dollars (plus the $140 bil. for the pork), but we were on the hook for the whole wad.
I do not bracket myself into the “Democrat” group either, even though that would seem to be the natural home for, ah, women who like wearing flannel. I adamantly oppose Obama’s unbelievable deficits. Trillion dollar deficits. In the sidebar of my blog I have over 400 pithy sayings where I completely demolish Obama and the Dems, which makes me very unpopular in the “Community” where Obama is considered the Abraham Lincoln for McGLBTs.
My advice for the recent rabble invasion on the Belmont Club? Don’t rise to the bait. They call them trolls precisely because that’s what they do. They ride their boat over the placid waters of the BC at one or two knots, trying to get a bite. Expressions of grief only validate them. God grants us patience by giving us many opportunities to hone it.
PR/179; I know whatcha mean –i’m in Texas, too, tho near ’nuff to Austin to see plenty of the blue sky dream folks. Boone Pickens’ plan is for the mid-term future the big answer alright, and he’s pretty frank about the salubrious effect on his wind farm of getting natty back up to around the $7 he needs to make his wind farm economics work –which will no doubt happen as the 18 wheelers start to seriously convert. As he says, ‘it’s clean, it’s abundant, and it’s ours’.
DC/178; well, i hate to dash your caricature-world, but all i’ve read of Rand’s books is articles about Rand’s books –a summary or two. I know of her history –she’s Russian, her middle-class store-owner family was along with very much of the hard-working small-biz class deliberately busted out by the Reds –after which her parents (and she) immigrated to USA. So she’s been down in it, where it’s real, and formed her ideas off the actual things that actually really –not silly cartoony –took place in a modern state in living memory at the hands of a bunch of organized Progressives.
Mock her caricature all you want –she would be the last one to be surprised, she’s seen it all before, and coming from the same useful idiots, on missions handed down by ambitious and profoundly lawless theoreticians. That’s why she wrote the books, you see. Same with Palin –mock her caricature all you want, it clearly shows the complete utter lack of a substantive political disagreement –when it’s always the silly fan-mag fashion giggles about her looks or her hair or her family, the information registered is about the nature of the commenter.
So pray, continue, hammer away at Rand & Palin both, at least until November 2012.
Now, on your Republicans and Democrats both view CBO numbers as objective and realistic:
Using search terms [ cbo report on healthcare ] here’s goo gle and here’s Bi ng –does this very general set look to you like there’s nothing controversial, partisan, crazily anarchic going on with that report that you’re willing to sign your future to ?
What, is it your ambition to be a fully-developed numbskull when you grow up? What the hell’s the matter with you? Don’t you think you ought to wake up?
***
having read the last few posts after i wrote the above, i hear ya –along with carney’s attempt to shuck the silliness –and i’ll go along too. but i have to leave the post, as Mr. Carney indeed for his own good ort to look at the info on CBO.
Ay. Ay. Ay. Das The reference to my upbringing was in response to
“A Nobody’s” post # 128 which went something like this:
“What a terrible shame. But fortunately, in the years to come, all those children who are being born to conservative families (3, 4 and 5 per) will be overwhelmed and mastered by the huge waves of one designer kid per liberal couple (when they actually have a kid), and their right-wing politics will finally be quashed.”
I felt the need him know that kids raised in conservative families do not automatically grow up to vote Republican. I never “broke with my father” I just disagree with a fair amount of his politics.
And I virtually never read Daily Kos – but I have no problem with people who do. Look – I disagree with most of you – and I’m reading this…
Particles collide
Waves move through heaven and earth
It is rapturous.
Wow Lifeofthemind – Pretty writing. Color me impressed. I’ll give you that I’ve violated “the most simple and nearly universal laws of acceptable social conduct” with some of my posts and I’ve apologized (#183)
But as for the “documented historical record, principles of physical causality and economic realities” I think it is you who may be confused… Also, sexual dysfunction? Quite the contrary, it functions PERFECTLY – but thanks for your concern.
You are a terrible person, now go away and do not bother your betters again. Love it.
I will Buddy.
LOTM & Teresita,
You’re both right and henceforth I’ll follow your Troll rules of thumb; at the same time, we’re compassionate, educator types here at BC and hate to see young minnow minds squiggling in the sewers…
nice Haiku, programmer –
president Obama complained that some on the right, some even in congress, considered him to be a bolshevic. He did not deny it, he only went on to say that he was no idiologue.
Well I suppose there is some truth to what the president said. I for one consider myself to be a man of the right, even if I couldn’t pass a stupid flippin stodgy brained purity test (oh yeah, mea culpa). But at least unlike the president I know what I believe in, and I am not afraid to take a stand. Our president Obama either does not know what he believes (or is afraid to really say it) or believes in nothing, which explains how he could believe all that garbage he spewed in the SotU and at the House GOP meeting. WFrom where I sit president Obama is the epitomy of democrat party politics, no beliefs, no plans, no particularly new ideas other than the socialist agenda of equal justice and equal pay no matter who is harmed and no matter what is merited. I have a heart, but I also have a brain. Common sense stipulates that if the government can steal from my neighbor then it can and will steal from me as well. Democrat proposals like the health care nonsense all propose theft as a means of leveling the playing field. Theft is not a part of any GOP sponsored measure.
Wadeusaf
Buddy,
As the sentry on the Maginot line said when asked by his superior officer what was making all the noise in the background:
Tanks.
Obama’s liable to pull a “ropa dope” by reversing himself on the KSM trials and moving it to Guitmo (where it belongs)to wild approval of the Republicans, especially the RINOS. When his polling gets more positive, he’ll bounce of the ropes and press for a Reconcilliation vote on Obamacare. There’s no stopping this Marxist from executing his progressive socialist agenda. November cant come soon enough.
Leftists, my appeal to charity applies to your sense of charity, too,
Let’s cut the crap and talk issues with honesty and forthrightness.
Let’s drop the invective, on all sides.
Capiche, left and right?
I think it is time for some of Ben’s Wisdom.
A man could do no better than live by it.
Papa Ray
Wow D Carney and I thought I was a sinner. Seek the Lord my friend you need it Big time…
A century past America enjoyed a long tradition of “fly-by-night” carnivals. These would blow into a rural town, set up a bunch of tents and rickety rides over a half acre, with room for the local townsfolk to park their mules and carriages. The typical attractions were cotton candy, shooting galleries, games of chance, ring-the-bell with a sledge hammer blow on a lever, pin-heads, tattooed and bearded women, and other physically-deformed freaks.
The games – shooting galleries, baseball pitches, bean bag tosses, etc. – awarded “kewpie dolls,” candy, stuffed animals and other trinkets and gewgaws, none of which would seriously deplete the house winnings when someone’s luck or skill defeated the mirrors, magnets, and other cheats built into the carefully-rigged games. To further magnify the profits, some carnivals employed confidence artists and pickpockets circulating, who could deftly pluck wallets and coin purses from pockets of unwary “marks” among the crowds. The difficulties of identifying the criminals, or even establishing that an actual crime had occurred, meant that Police were usually unable to pursue charges, so the pickpockets and flim-flammers didn’t necessarily have any criminal records.
Hey! Carnivals did, by and large, offer a lot of clean wholesome fun for the family. Most of the food is tasty and reasonably nutritious, and most of the games and rides are safe and honest and fun. But there was always a fringe element of sneak thieves and unprincipled cheats, among both the operators and the visitors. Sorta like Wall Street. (and D.C.)
The traditional name given to a barker, performer, announcer, ticket seller, roustabout, whatnot – the denizen of the Carnival – “Carney.”
Still, it’s good to judge any commenter by logic, consistency, attention to actual fact, references to information sources, and abstaining from insults and appeals to doctrinaire mythology, bigotry, etc.
And besides, the occasional idiot spewing talking points keeps us in practice with our own arguments, and reminds us to keep the powder dry.
Accepting the GOP house invitation was necessary, as president Obama needs some republican votes to pass anything at all. There not being enough pork to satisfy the votes in his own party, such meetings give him the chance to say he has extended the bipartisan hand and had it rejected. No matter what in fact occurs in the legislative process.
The party of “NO” is correct to say “NO” to fiscal irresponsibility, “NO” to waste and “NO” to fraud and deception. I only wish more democrat members of the house could bring themselves to say the same things. If only the voice were credible.
Teresita,
I treat everyone on a case-by-case basis.
An admirable stance to take. The problem is that in dealing with the thousands of choices and value judgments that we must make on a constant basis the ideal standard just does not work. We all compartmentalize and stereotype, we have to. The trick is to figure out when it a Todd Beemer that we are dealing with and invest the extra effort into evaluating them. Despite the claims of the Utopians we simply can not do that in every case. Consideration is considerate, meaning courteous, but it is also expensive. It takes a consideration, to use the word in an obsolete sense of a payment, in the sense that time and effort are money, to consider, meaning to evaluate, each human being as the unique individuals they are to be evaluated solely on their personal merits. So we sort people into bins, by race or class or sex or any of thousands of other criteria. Doing so is a natural biological function. It is a feature not a bug.
What a broad education and experience, what used to be a Liberal Education, should give is enough of a basis to permit someone to sort the individuals and problems that they deal with into more compartments, in a process similar to Roman Law. That Liberal quality also allows us to recognize the special cases that are truly worth the extra investment needed to lift them out of the box and deal with them as individuals.
We are in agreement about the trolls, that was one point about my demonstration, and in disagreement about something far more interesting. I did wonder though if you might feel an urge to say to such a person, “Listen jerk you don’t speak for me” or even portray yourself more like Harriet Nelson or Laura Petrie to make the distinction clearer.
There is another issue that can be discussed separately about stereotypes and how some members of sub-groups seek them out and conform to them. Examples include the self absorbed and destructive homosexual, the self absorbed and destructive Islamist, the self-absorbed and destructive Leftist. Do I begin to detect a pattern? Why are such stereotypes so prevalent, why do members of the sub-groups concerned tolerate members of their communities who reinforce those images, and why do they fear the tolerant traditional society more than they do other intolerant sub-groups? Whose problems are these? Do they belong principally to the larger society or to the members of the stereotyped sub-groups?
——-
For any who wonder I did have steak for dinner and I feel better for the clubbing exercise.
Cowboy,
I understand your call for more decorum on the forum, and I will strive to move towards it. Sometimes I can’t help myself when it comes to American progressives. They’re just so earnest. Also, it’s hard to tell when someone has come here to trollbomb versus engage in discussion. While in the past it was easier to take the measures you’ve stated, in the modern day and on the internet it is frequently more productive to treat them as potential trolls until they prove otherwise (for example, by moving away from confrontational language).
D Carney,
While your individual example is significant for you, in the main the political views of a parent tend to be congruent with the views their child has. One study you may wish to review is “Political Attitude Congruence between Politically Active Parents and College-Age Children: An Inquiry into Family Political Socialization”, authored by L. Eugene Thomas. There are others if you wish to look into the phenomenon more deeply.
In other words, if conservative parents have more children than liberal ones, then the successive generation will have more conservative viewpoints.
Also, as for your Congressional Budget Office, I suggest you watch several episodes of “Yes, Minister”, and then you will understand.
LOTM: So we sort people into bins, by race or class or sex or any of thousands of other criteria. Doing so is a natural biological function. It is a feature not a bug.
I am fond of the writings of Frank Herbert (“Dune”). He paints a sharp distinction between humans and animals. And he says that some animals are masquerading as humans, requiring the test of the “gom jabbar” to screen them out. You probably remember the movie. Paul has to keep his hand inside a black box despite mounting agony, or bring upon himself certain death.
“Pain by nerve induction,” she said. “Can’t go around maiming potential humans. There’re those who’d give a pretty for the secret of this box, though.” She slipped it into the folds of her gown.
“But the pain–” he said.
“Pain,” she sniffed. “A human can override any nerve in the body.”
Paul felt his left hand aching, uncurled the clenched fingers, looked at four bloody marks where fingernails had bitten his palm. He dropped the hand to his side, looked at the old woman. “You did that to my mother once?”
“Ever sift sand through a screen?” she asked.
The tangential slash of her question shocked his mind into a higher awareness: Sand through a screen. He nodded.
“We Bene Gesserit sift people to find the humans.”
The point I’m trying to make is that it is an essential human quality to rise above our own creatureliness, even if such a thing is depicted as just “human nature”. It may be the easy and natural thing to lump people into certain groups based on the appearance of their skin, hair, clothing or the religion they were required to attend as a child, but it is the excellent, human thing to claw through those things which exist only on the perceptual level and deal with others on the basis of deeper shared values.
I did wonder though if you might feel an urge to say to such a person, “Listen jerk you don’t speak for me” or even portray yourself more like Harriet Nelson or Laura Petrie to make the distinction clearer.
I’ve been with Fely for 21 years, and our lives are quite boring and normal. We don’t go to bars or pride parades. Sometimes we take a weekend off and visit this or that Indian casino in various parts of the state. There’s a six-foot tall Xena standee in my living room window which scares the crap out of the Mormons and JWs. And that’s about it.
There is another issue that can be discussed separately about stereotypes and how some members of sub-groups seek them out and conform to them. Examples include the self absorbed and destructive homosexual, the self absorbed and destructive Islamist, the self-absorbed and destructive Leftist. Do I begin to detect a pattern?
The pattern is the urge to instant gratification over the value of delaying personal gratification for a greater good, perhaps even the good of one of those groups you mention. Again, it boils down to the difference between the animal and the human, between the surface perceptual and the deeper, perhaps even abstract conceptual.
The old woman said: “You’ve heard of animals chewing off a leg to escape a trap? There’s an animal kind of trick. A human would remain in the trap, endure the pain, feigning death that he might kill the trapper and remove a threat to his kind.”
179. Papa Ray:
Agreed. I think Pickens has it right too.
The gas deposits discovered in the last 24 months in the lower 48 are so large that they are affecting the routing of the alaska gas pipeline. It was originally susposed to come down through canada but with so much gas already in the lower 48–they’re thinking of switching out the terminus of the pipeline to valdez AK so lng tankers have the option of shipping the gas abroad for export.
Likely too a big winner in the next 10 years will be nuclear power plants. A subset of those are portable nuclear power plants. There’s about 100 different designs for them world wide. The US has a bunch. The smallest ones are the size of a big refrigerator. But they can power 50,000 homes. They still have some regulatory hurdles to get over but judging by O’s state of the union the liberals aren’t totally against them anymore.
I’m buying the idea that the US will go through ten years or so of debt hangover. But at the end of that time –the reason the USA will come out of that will be because the USA is no longer a net importer of energy but rather a net exporter of energy.
The trouble will come when energy prices fall too much. Here’s an interesting graph that shows the relationship between oil imports and oil prices from back in the 1970′s to today. After oil prices shot up–oil imports were cut in half but it took about 5 years–during which time oil prices fell substantially. Compare that to the right hand side of the graph where oil price go sky high and then collapse.
Here is a more detailed look of recent oil imports. Notice how imports are falling sharply. That’s mostly because of falling US demand.
Of course O talk with the pubbies should be seen in this context.
Democrats quietly working to resuscitate healthcare overhaul
There is another issue that can be discussed separately about stereotypes and how some members of sub-groups seek them out and conform to them. Examples include the self absorbed and destructive homosexual, the self absorbed and destructive Islamist, the self-absorbed and destructive Leftist. Do I begin to detect a pattern? Why are such stereotypes so prevalent, why do members of the sub-groups concerned tolerate members of their communities who reinforce those images, and why do they fear the tolerant traditional society more than they do other intolerant sub-groups? Whose problems are these? Do they belong principally to the larger society or to the members of the stereotyped sub-groups?
A good question(s). I can’t say I have the answer, but my suspicions run like this:
Its the weak part of the culture. A charitable part of the culture, as weak points tend to be. When someone flies into a tantrum the good and polite side of us tends to think of it as an aberration; they are just tired or whatever. Pay it no mind. Don’t challenge them. That would be impolite.
But, like the frog being slowly heated to the boiling point, we don’t notice the change in frequency or intensity of the tantrums, nor what they demand. Trash thought and trash talk that would have been denounced as such X years ago becomes acceptable because it was not fought. The water gets hotter by the moment.
Western civilization’s fall will come from what came to be its finest social products–decency and tolerance.
Teresita,
it is an essential human quality to rise above our own creatureliness
You did not address my central point. Stereotyping is essential even if it yields a sub prime result in a specific case. You cannot function without doing it. To not do so would mean to not process events and then not rely on past events in considering new problems. That would be to truly have to deal with each encounter as a unique case. In so doing you would constantly “live in the moment.” That is not a quality that we prize in humans although we admire it in our dogs.
As Jesse Jackson observed anyone who while alone on a inner city street at night sees four black males approaching who appear to be between the ages of 15 and 25 and who does not feel fear is insane. Perhaps a suburban liberal will run up to them and say “Hello” but normal people will at least finger their cell phone and consider where to run. It is entirely possible that the 4 youths are members of the Raging Rooks chess team and might be the nicest kids you ever meet. That does not change the fact that you need to process information with prior experience, both yours and others since we are social beings with language, taken into consideration. As with any tool the key is to understand it and know when and how to put it down.
Don’t be so hard on yourself and feel called upon to reject all stereotypes. You are probably correct in your prejudice that 99% of the time the JWs will be a waste of your time and at best boring. One benefit of having a shepherd was that the Witnesses never came to my door and did not bother me on the street. On the other hand one time in fifty just for laughs you might want to invite one of the Mormon teams in for coffee. They are often interesting people.
LoTM: You are probably correct in your prejudice that 99% of the time the JWs will be a waste of your time and at best boring. One benefit of having a shepherd was that the Witnesses never came to my door and did not bother me on the street. On the other hand one time in fifty just for laughs you might want to invite one of the Mormon teams in for coffee. They are often interesting people.
You misunderestimate me. I have had CoJCoLDS missionaries over, and they gave me a BoM, and I read the whole thing in two weeks, and that wasn’t easy (After the first three books I tackled the big one, Alma, first, then bit off the rest of the smaller ones). I do have many problems with the BoM from a basis of textual criticism (it is written in a terrible faux Early modern English with many anachronisms), and the thing where a branch of “Jews” observes Sunday as the shabbat like a 19th Century Protestant sect instead of Saturday. The biggest problem in the BoM for me is the way it handles women.
I also seem to have adopted some JWs who swing by every two weeks. I have an encyclopedic knowledge of the bible from years in a scripture-based chatroom on Undernet called #scripture appropriately enough. Unfortunately, this hobby of reading the bible was my last remaining thread of faith, and this thread has completely snapped. It is in the last few weeks where that could be said.
Teresita, LifeoftheMind -
Regarding stereotypes – FWIW In my experience, Mormons tend to be terrific people – not only interesting but honest, reliable, forthright and considerate. I’ve had the same experience with graduates of EST. The odd thing is, Mormonism has always seemed a bit strange to me, and EST strikes me as flat-out bizarre.
The point being that there is a difference between an ideology and its followers, though we often tend to conflate the two.
Teresita,
You sucker punched me with the Xena in the window. In fairness to the Mormons they know how goofy their scripture sounds and their argument that it is not how they should be evaluated as a community makes some sense. They seem a very practical group not given to abstract references to a text to justify impractical actions. Granted though that their conduct towards women and minorities left much to be desired. The question is whether that was deep culture rooted in the religion or a shallow community value that was projected back into the religion and can be easily changed? My suspicion is that the oddities of the BoM are less important than are those of the Koran and hadith, which do have an immediate daily impact on how Moslems interact with others. There is nothing wrong with Scripture, it is a very good book. (Please let us not have long cut and paste passages from anyone following this.)
marymcl,
Concur, though EST gives me the willies. We are the good folks having fun.
re: EST,
I get it.
—
Don’t forget The People’s Temple!
Notice how popular atheist-socialist Rev Jones was with Democrat liberal movers and shakers in CA, and San Francisco, in particular:
“The move of Peoples Temple headquarters to San Francisco in 1975 invigorated Jones’ political career. After the Temple served an important role in the mayoral election victory of George Moscone in 1975, Moscone appointed Jones as the Chairman of the San Francisco Housing Authority Commission.[41]
Unlike most other figures deemed as cult leaders, Jones was able to gain public support and contact with prominent local and national United States politicians. For example, Jones and Moscone met privately with vice presidential candidate Walter Mondale on his campaign plane days before the 1976 election and Mondale publicly praised the Temple.[42][43] First Lady Rosalynn Carter also personally met with Jones on multiple occasions, corresponded with him about Cuba, and spoke with him at the grand opening of the San Francisco Democratic Party Headquarters where Jones garnered louder applause than Mrs. Carter.[42][44][45]
In September 1976, Willie Brown served as master of ceremonies at a large testimonial dinner for Jones attended by Governor Jerry Brown and Lieutenant Governor Mervyn Dymally and other political figures.[46] At that dinner, while introducing Jones, Willie Brown stated “Let me present to you what you should see every day when you look in the mirror in the early morning hours … Let me present to you a combination of Martin King, Angela Davis, Albert Einstein … Chairman Mao.”[47] Harvey Milk, who spoke at political rallies at the Temple,[48] and wrote to Jones after a visit to the Temple: “Rev Jim, It may take me many a day to come back down from the high that I reach today. I found something dear today. I found a sense of being that makes up for all the hours and energy placed in a fight. I found what you wanted me to find. I shall be back. For I can never leave.”[49][50]
In his San Francisco Temple apartment, Jones regularly hosted San Francisco radical political figures such as Angela Davis for discussions.[51] He spoke with friend and San Francisco Sun-Reporter publisher Dr. Carlton Goodlett about Jones’ remorse regarding not being able to travel to socialist countries such as China and the Soviet Union, speculating that he could be Chief Dairyman of the Soviet Union.[52]
After his criticisms caused increased tensions with the Nation of Islam, Jones spoke at a huge rally healing the rift between the two groups in the Los Angeles Convention center attended by many of Jones’ closest political acquaintances.[53]
While Jones forged media alliances with key columnists and others at the San Francisco Chronicle and other media outlets,[54] the move to San Francisco also brought increasing media scrutiny. After Chronicle reporter Marshall Kilduff encountered resistance to publishing an expose, he brought his story to New West Magazine.[55]
In the summer of 1977, Jones and several hundred Temple members moved to the Temple’s “Agricultural Project” in Guyana after they learned of the contents of Kilduff’s article to be published in which former Temple members claimed they were physically, emotionally, and sexually abused.[45][56] Jones named the settlement Jonestown after himself.”
144. buddy larsen:
okay, twoby –i won’t say any more –i won’t say that affording babies will be no problem as soon as John Galt reforms the IRS so we don’t have to pay for current progressive long-range financial planning:
“hey, let’s get the money from wherever it is now!”
>>”And where’s THAT?”
“Uh, I dunno, I thought YOU knew.”
>>”Well, I don’t!”
“Uh oh.”
Jan 30, 2010 – 2:40 pm
C’mon. It’s obvious.
Obama’s STASH!!! Fer heaven’s sake.
tomw
Teres/207; Unfortunately, this hobby of reading the bible was my last remaining thread of faith, and this thread has completely snapped. It is in the last few weeks where that could be said. Event horizon: too personal to share, or of policy wonkish interest?
Tom/211; you may *think* you’re kidding….
Prog/193; you’re quite wehrmacht, sir.
jjr/198; don’t forget Art Carney (“NOAHT’N!” hollered Ralph Kramden out the window and up toward Ed & Trixie Norton’s apartment).
D Carney is interesting, if only for his invincible conviction that time and demographics are on the ‘progressive’ side and parents don’t matter. If only Mr. Carney your ideological opponents were all Rapture awaiting fundies, that would make it easier for you…as many BCers have realized, the real danger is not from pot-smoking aging hippies but slick, well connected transnationalists like Soros and their bailed out banker buddies who are bankrupting this country with endless spending and money printing. If you took a poll of BCers I doubt even 1% would rank two gay men or two lesbians getting married as the greatest threat to the survival of the Republic. And so on and so forth. Despite Whiskey saying it’s all about Big Man worshipping women chasing alpha males who punish whitey, I have seen more erudition and signs of genuine education on these threads than I ever have at the Daily Kos or even the Atlantic.
D. Carney obviously has not read much Joel Kotkin’s (a professor and a Democrat by the way) New Geography which shows where people are voting with their feet to be. Hint: it’s not Blue States like New York, California, and Illinois. At the very least, he ought to study Michael Lind who unlike his colleagues at the same ‘progressive’ D.C. think tank does not refer incessantly to angry Americans as ‘teabaggers’ or ‘clinging to their guns and religion’.
Of course, all straight line demographic projections in to the future are inherently flawed. The Atlantic published a story saying Russia was doomed and Nicholas Eberstadt of AEI followed up with an article titled ‘Drunken Nation’ saying the Russians were going to die off by half this century. Now even Eberstadt has admitted that Russia is enjoying a mini-revival when for the first time the number of births + migrants surpassed deaths since 1994. And incidentally, as in Israel probably the fastest growing demographic is NOT Muslims but Orthodox (in Israel Jews, in Russia Orthodox Christian) believers. Birth rates in the Caucases, Tartarstan and Bashkortistan are more or less in the Russian sub to near replacement norms.
As for Mormons, I seem to recall a South Park episode where Stone and Parker actually gave the Mormon character at the end a chance to stick up for his religion, even if he admitted it was weird, and to stop being nice and tell one of his persecutors to shove it. Good for them. As for Mormonism itself, the Orthodox (and many Roman Catholics) would agree that once you create the idea that the Bible is to be interpreted by everyone according to their own ideas apart from the Church Fathers teachings, something like Mormonism or the Jehovah’s Witnesses teachings are inevitable. That is one of the reasons I am no longer Protestant.
As for the gas stuff, it’s interesting to me. On the one hand North America being awash in shale gas has made exporting LNG from Yamal or Sakhalin uneconomical for Russia. But on the other hand, Nordstream and Southstream are already going to be built bypassing Ukraine and Poland as sunken costs. And Nabucco (which was never going to be viable without gas from Kurdistan and/or Iran, and hence subject to Turkish or U.S. vetoes) now is even more wildly uneconomical than it was before.
So as long as Russia is enabled to become a player in the North American gas market through trading and asset swaps (like France’s Total which already invested billions in to the Barnett) I don’t see it being a huge problem for the Motherland. And remember, StatOil Hydro, ENI and other Euro majors have their engineers in the Barnett, and those engineers may soon be working from the Urals to Tyumen, solving the alleged shortfall in Russian gas production. I’ve already heard one petroleum engineer who worked for Chevron in Moscow tell me the geology and age of the Urals is very similar to the Appalachians, where the Marcellus is booming. He thinks Russia has reserves bigger than Saudi Arabia rather than the official figure of 70 billion barrels. And all they’ve really done until recently with the Chinese investment in new fields was squeeze more out of the Soviet era giants.
Doug/210; “Elmer Gantry” was on TCM the other night –Jim Jones saw himself –and acolytes saw him as –in the Elmer Gantry style of brooding-genius charismatic. The film, looking back from today, is an incredibly powerful pro-progressive polemic –from woodrow wilson to elmer gantry to the actual jim jones mountain of rotting corpses in the jungle green tropix –the world is a blob of human mass to be handled by a selected few armed with charged wires zapping the flinching blob to make it guide this way or that way. The film is literal (the people, as long shots of a thousand tiny featureless heads, are actually an audience in a circus tent) and earnest, without shade of the irony of a contest between two subversives where in one corner is Fiction (Elmer Gantry) and in the other corner is Real (the actual reel).
One could see the Right vs the Left as the self-selected few vs the commission-selected few. But, who da ‘commission’?
Mr X, as Papa ray mentions, the new Alaskan lng terminals and the recently completed Vladivostock area terminal (name?) ought to make the heretofore local/regional natty mkt ‘global’ –so long as neither east nor west attempts to gain a state advantage.
this may be problematical due to recent history –BP, Shell and others getting ravaged in Russian courts. All that has really hurt the Ruble not to mention foreign investment –not to mention having given rise to a widespread meme of a ‘criminal government’ in the Kremlin. one wonders what on earth ever gave rise to such horrible PR –it seems so self-defeating one wonders at what the piece of missing information might be.
Mr. X @213,
I think the greatest threat comes from the forces that slowly infantilizes a society, which in turns makes it easier for a state to have overbearing powers and to limit the freedoms of individuals.
Remember the woman who voted for Obama expecting goodies?
For some reason, certain minorities and specific immigrant groups are more vulnerable to this same process of infantilization. Then there’s leftist-controlled education, which also tries to do the same to children. The current Tea Party phenomenon may yet be a final groundswell – I really hope not, but I also won’t be surprised if it eventually peters out.
Even the process of internal migration you mentioned has a dark lining – many of those who voted with their feet, often carry over from their original states the same failed ideas that created the conditions they were fleeing from, thus infecting another formerly healthy region. They do not seem to be able to connect their beliefs with their circumstances.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssKlz1ZRJN8
The rest of the series can be found on you tube in pieces…bits and pieces.
That’s why so many of you fall for it every time.
It takes a sizeable chunk of my finite disposable spare time to read this many comments. I can skim past the trolls, but I feel cheated reading regulars who should know better rising to the troll bait.
Y’all quit wasting my time.
Doug, thanks for that piece on Jim Jones. Not once in my life have I read of that history associated with the guy. I can’t help but believe now that such a whitewash didn’t happen by accident and was a rather purposeful, and self-serving, exclusion by the left-wing media.
RattlerGator @ Jan 31, 2010 – 11:40 am:
When it’s so obvious that even you “can’t help but believe now,” the most accurate appellation is begging to be used.
Mr. X #213 once you create the idea that the Bible is to be interpreted by everyone according to their own ideas apart from the Church Fathers teachings, something like Mormonism or the Jehovah’s Witnesses teachings are inevitable. That is one of the reasons I am no longer Protestant.
But weren’t many of the early Church Fathers Greek? and the North African variety?
There are those who make the argument that white congress persons just don’t have it in them to vigorously confront a black colleague in public, no matter how compelling the case. It seems to me the lily-livered handling of Obama by the Republican caucus this week finds it real explanation elsewhere, more likely in the more generalized low quality of spinal bone found in the members.
Hopefully the remedial work being done in Florida on behalf of Marco Rubio will be repeated mucho elsewhere……..
Anyone who hears Rubio speak will really like him –he’s the real deal!
Rattlergator, Doug
If you can find a copy, (it’s been out of print for a while) by all means check out Shiva Naipaul’s book “Journey to Nowhere”. I was going to bring up Jonestown last night but was too tired and gave up on the comment (thanks Doug!)
Anyway Naipaul (younger brother of the famous V.S. – sadly he died in 1985 at the age of 40) delineated all those connections between the People’s Temple and leftist politicians in California. He also demonstrated how the Jonestown cult derived from the ideological flotsam of the 60′s (including EST!) and further demonstrated how it all dovetailed with the emerging Third Worldism of Guyanese politics at the time. A very absorbing book by an astute writer who was lost to us far too soon – many times since 9/11 I’ve wished his voice was still with us
wonder if anyone ever figured out The People’s Temple’s finances. Almost surely TPT was after more than the acolytes’ real property –almost certainly, Jones was harvesting government programs –easy enough with acolytes ‘in residence’.
buddy larsen #158 @ Jan 30, 2010 – 3:59 pm:
The secret of such Utopias is never revealed until after the “visionaries” gain power: that is the practical jokers and misanthropes run things. D. Carney either does not know this (a useful idiot) or is one of them.
Don Rodrigo #162 @ Jan 30, 2010 – 4:15 pm:
You’re not thinking like the misanthropes Don.
With the admitted reduction of healthcare availability, and the consequent reduction in life spans that forebodes, the reduction in Medicare and Social Security payouts will indeed reduce the real deficit. QED
What do
“Progressives”Incrementals privately call the methodical murder of 100 million people during the 20th Century by Communist and Fascist governments? Their pilot program.