White powder
CBS News quotes officials who say the Nigerian attempted to blow up a Northwest Airlines plane over Detroit using PETN, whose method of “preparation involves the nitration of pentaerythritol with a mixture of concentrated nitric and sulfuric acid. The preferred method of nitration is the ICI method, which utilizes concentrated nitric acid (98%+) alone, as mixed acid can create unstable sulfonated by-products.” Pentaerythritol is a crystalline organic compound that can be described as “white powder”, seen in this advertisement. CBS says:
The suspect in the attempted bombing of Northwest Flight 253 used a highly explosive substance called PETN, a law enforcement official told CBS News Saturday. The explosives were carried in a soft plastic container – possibly a condom – though much of the packaging was destroyed in the fire, the official said. …
A high-ranking law enforcement official told CBS News that the suspect apparently used a syringe to inject a chemical into the powder, which was located near his groin. It is a technique not seen in previous attempted attacks and it’s possible that this incident was a test of whether the materials could pass screening and how effective they might be at causing damage, the source said.
This video shows the effects of one third of an ounce of PETN on a small tree.
YouTube Direkt
Wikipedia says “PETN is also one of the ingredients in Semtex plastic explosive. PETN was the explosive chosen by Richard Reid for his plot to blow up the Boeing 767 he was traveling in from Paris to Miami. He was stopped just in time however.” This time the person responsible for stopping the terrorist attempt was a Dutch video director named Jaspar Schuringa. Abdulmutallab sat still as a conflagration built between his legs.
The Dutch video director said that he heard a loud bang that sounded like a firecracker going off at which point somebody started shouting: ‘Fire! Fire!’
He then noticed smoke coming from Abdulmutallab’s seat, although the suspect remained still.
Mr Schuringa claimed he then jumped over the passenger sitting next to him and lunged over Abdulmutallab’s seat, at which point he saw the Nigerian had his trousers down with a burning object between his legs.
‘I pulled the object from him and tried to extinguish the fire with my hands and threw it away,’ Mr Schuringa said. ‘My hands are pretty burned. I am fine.’
Abdulmutallab seemed dazed, he said. Mr Schuringa then ripped off items of the suspect’s clothing to make sure no more devices were strapped to his body before a crew member handcuffed him.
The other passengers then burst into applause, Mr Schuringa said.
The suspect was traveling on a valid US visa “obtained on June 16 2008 and which was due to expire on June 12, 2010. He was on his way to a religious ceremony when he detonated the device, injuring his right leg badly and another passenger” according to the Punch. This developed as a prominent Nigerian banker told the press that “he reported his son, Umar Farouk Abdul Mutallab, to the US Embassy 6 months ago when he grew suspicious of the 23-year-old’s growing extremism. The elder Mutallab is said to be both devastated by the news and surprised his son was allowed to travel to the US. … The elder Mutallab is married to a woman of Yemeni descent, but it’s not clear if she is the suspect’s mother. Authorities in London are searching a home owned by the family there.”
The Washington Post says that Mutallab’s name was forwarded by Dutch authorities to the US as he transited Amsterdam and passed the normal screening checks. There were no objections on the American side.
Officials in the Netherlands said an initial investigation showed that routine secInurity procedures were followed at Schiphol Airport in Amsterdam with no irregularities. Mutallab’s name was on the passenger manifesto that was forwarded and approved by U.S. authorities before takeoff. … Some airlines in the U.S. have told passengers new rules require them to stay in seats one hour before landing.
Maybe that would have kept Schuringa in his place and Mutallab would have stayed in his anyway.
A recent post entitled the Cornucopia described the problem of extracting intelligence from data. The two terms are not synonymous. Intelligence is the result of making sense of the data; “connecting the dots”. But sometimes the dots are scattered among many drawers and filing cabinets, or in modern paralance, among different databases. The post Blood Red Tape quoted a RAND study which described how painful it was to move information across service, agency, national and hierarchical boundaries. Information is the “coin of the realm” and bureaucracies instinctively hoard it to enhance their power. In hindsight it is easy to see that Muttalab and some of his associates, including perhaps some of those back in Nigeria, might be mixed up in this. Muttalab’s father, for example, is described as a man who visits the US for health checkups and vacations. Who is going to look under that particular rock?
While defensive counterterrorism is valuable ultimately the greatest benefits come from offensive counterterrorism: penetrating al-Qaeda. One interesting metric would be how far US intelligence has come since 9/11 toward being able insert American assets within that and similar organizations. It is a long and painstaking process which requires patience and strategic constancy. The Cold War was won in large part because successive American administrations from both parties were to varying degrees committed to the doctrine of containment. The question that has never been asked about President Obama’s engagement policy is whether ending the War on Terror has also eroded an appreciation of who the enemy is and undermined the determination to defeat it.
Tip Jar or Subscribe for $5
I’ve got a burning object between my legs pretty much all the time. If somebody wants to jump on me and put it out, I just hope it’s a woman.
I’m sorry but every other commenter here probably has too much class to go after the glaring double entendres, leaving the job to me.
Seriously this may not be effective terrorism from the standpoint of blowing up planes but I shudder to think what it’s going to do to airport screening.
“This time the person responsible for stopping the terrorist attempt was a Dutch video director named Jaspar Schuringa.”
Three cheers for the Flying Dutchman!
PETN is an ingredient used in detcord, or Primacord™. It has an extremely high explosive velocity of over 20,000 ft/second. I have used thousands of feet of the stuff connecting various loads in drillholes for blasting. Powerful stuff, and does not belong on planes.
Screening is one thing, but rational profiling will go a long way to lowering the chance of a threat like this.
But, if you really want to minimize the threat of terrorism, then you go after those individuals and organizations promoting our destruction and you take them out with the method appropriate for the situation. You do not need billions to do this. If you want your civilization to survive, you must go on the offensive, and make it clear that those promoting or perpetrating terrorism will be personally hurt. That is the only way you can communicate successfully with psychopaths, who are incapable of empathy.
PETN is an ingredient used in detcord, or Primacord. It has an extremely high explosive velocity of over 20,000 ft/second. I have used thousands of feet of the stuff connecting various loads in drill holes for blasting. Powerful stuff, and does not belong on planes.
Screening is one thing, but rational profiling will go a long way to lowering the chance of a threat like this.
But, if you really want to minimize the threat of terrorism, then you go after those individuals and organizations promoting our destruction and you take them out with the method appropriate for the situation. You do not need billions to do this. If you want your civilization to survive, you must go on the offensive, and make it clear that those promoting or perpetrating terrorism will be personally hurt. That is the only way you can communicate successfully with psychopaths, who are incapable of empathy.
Such a small amount of explosive blowing in half a small tree is impressive but what would it take to blow a hole in the fuselage of an airplane and at that, what catastrophic damage might that cause? This sounds like more of a disrupting terrorism with the intent of bleeding the giant by a thousand pin pricks and perhaps by it own overbearing response to it. I can’t help but think that it is our predilection to throwing money and growing government security that is the damage that we will receive from this incident. Perhaps we’ll find out shortly that the government has found the problem and the solution is more government and fewer freedoms.
What exactly do these miscreants bring to the party here anyhow that we should endanger everyone so that they can freely travel here?
I can’t help but think that it is our predilection to throwing money and growing government security that is the damage that we will receive from this incident. Perhaps we’ll find out shortly that the government has found the problem and the solution is more government and fewer freedoms.
It’s something of an oversimplification, but defensive counterterrorism is in a way making life a hell for yourself so that you don’t have to make at a hell for your enemy. You choose to fight him in your front yard so you don’t have to go into his. Professor Philip Hamburger at Columbia Law School criticized the current trend toward giving enemy combatants the same legal rights as citizens. Hamburger argues that treating the enemy as the enemy is the key to preserving civil liberties at home.
The principle gets somewhat muddled in the case of air travel, which by definition is a common carrier conveying an overwhelmingly innocent passenger stream. But it may be fair to say that the need to employ defensive counterterrorism is inversely related to the efficacy of our offensive counterintel effort. When we don’t know jack, then “who goes there?” will eventually be standard everywhere, not just in the airlines, but maybe on main street, a fact made worse by the possibility that the obvious werewolves are precisely the ones you can’t challenge. See Major Hassan.
As long as we remain lucky and the AQ don’t improve their quality control this situation is tolerable. But how would one react to a dozen or two dozen Washington snipers, Major Hassans or Mutallabs? Mutallab beat all the official defenses. He had a visa. He got past screening. The airplane was actually lowering its landing wheels. Nothing stopped him but a Dutchman who refused to stay in his seat. What does it say about procedure when an airliner is saved by someone outside of it?
Well what it says is we are going to get even more procedure, more screening, more searches. But maybe we are already on the declining part of the defensive efficiency curve. The real benefits will come from better use of existing data and offensive counterterrorism.
The question I asked yesterday is why did our State Dept give this Nigerian Muslim a Visa in the first place. We should have adopted a “no muslims allowed” policy after 9/11. It is not too late to do this. We should ban any Muslim from entering the US. And we should “encourage” those living here among us to depart. A “muslim American” is an oxymoron anyway.
Photos of the exterior of the house in London where Abdulmutallab resided for a time, and which police are now inspecting show a grand stone exterior and iron entrance to the house. The constant use of “Nigerian” by the Press connotes in my mind a thin African of humble origins. I think this is deliberate. Of course, no mention of Islam, though none is needed any more. We all know the score on that.
Is this the same Nigerian banker’s son who just wrote to tell me he has $50 million he’s waiting rio split with me? If the US prosecutes him I want the government to send me my money. Where’s a lawyer?
Once upon a time I took a multiple guess test on Combat Systems, if this is still classified shoot me, there were a series of questions on how to deal with threats to your ship from the another ship (surface), a submarine (subsurface) or an aircraft (aircraft, they have no imagination.) In each case the correct answer was, “With an aircraft at a distance.” The same logic still applies, Get them there rather than here. Point Defense is the industrialized equivalent of prayer.
Thrasymachus,
Tetracycline
On the last thread there were stories that the perp had no passport and was on a No Fly List. Here we are told that he had a valid visa. Possession of a visa does not mean admission, it just means an easier interview at the immigration and passport inspection station by CBP. However American Express will get you points. Just kidding, this is the laugh in the face of death thread, isn’t it?
U.S. authorities charge Nigerian man with attempting to destroy aircraft
Wretchard: This time the person responsible for stopping the terrorist attempt was a Dutch video director named Jaspar Schuringa.
I knew it would be just a matter of time before his name became public, but now that it has, what sort of reception will he get when he returns to Amsterdam – specifically from Amsterdam’s own little slice of the ummah which doesn’t take kindly to the natives interfering with Islamic supremacism’s advance, as a certain other Dutch filmmaker found out the hard way a few years ago?
Hamburger argues that treating the enemy as the enemy is the key to preserving civil liberties at home.
But we have nothing but friends.
This was obviously just a visitor unfamiliar with our ways, just a happy visitor engaging in the Nigerian travel custom thanking the host and guarantying oneself a warm welcome in a new land.
Just as I think I will start wearing a necktie when I travel by air, since otherwise I might be without a handy garrote in case I want to participate in such a happy ceremony with one of my seatmates.
I would love to hear a TSA screener ask, “Sir or madam, have your bags or penis been packed by anybody but yourself?”
Earlier reports placed Hot Pants in a row of seats directly above the main fuel tanks of the Airbus. Since he dropped trou and lit his package only when the wheels went down, those tanks would have been mostly empty, meaning they were filled with vapor, which (somebody smart help me out here) would also mean highly explosive. Yes?
I would love to hear a TSA screener ask, “Sir or madam, have your bags or penis been packed by anybody but yourself?”
Giving new meaning to the term “blow job.”
Oh, I can’t believe I just said that. ::blush::
Sara, the Washington Post link you provided says the following:
Maybe that’s the assumption that law enforcement has to make, but from an intel point of view, the overwhelming likelihood is that Mutallab was part of a conspiracy and you would look for the support cell and toss all the places he went on the assumption it exists.
There’s a surrealness about it. But now here’s the response and the blame-game starts.
How much additional safety does the one-bag rule provide? Maybe the real benefit is that it halves the area over which the inspectors have to devote their attention span. It reduces the make-work so that inspectors can devote more time to eyeballing the passengers more carefully. This way we get more inspection time without hiring more inspectors.
This is only good if the inspectors know what to look for in a person and if they are supported with good intelligence. And where do we get this intelligence if the default assumption is that the person is working alone? What the West is facing is a latter day version of the Japanese Kamikazes and handling it, not with strikes on enemy airfields, destroyer pickets, CAPs and other pro-active strategies, but with law enforcement. Back in the day everyone at least knew the Kamikaze pilots weren’t working alone.
Nothing is so enervating as the official truth.
Congrats to the people who subdued the sob…
I wonder WHY were his kneecaps not snapped, as well as his elbows?
Passengers should have open up the garbage can in the galley and pullout any pork trash and stuffed it in his mouth to keep him quiet…
I really wished he was made a cripple for life….
AND he should be waterboard asap and if he drowns? SO WHAT?
wake up folks this is institutional mass murder we are dealing with…
They do not fear death, they fear used tampons and pork….
TIme to HUMILIATE all Captured Islamic Terrorists…
THEY NEED TO KNOW WE WILL FEED THEM PORK AND WILL DEFILE THEM
The English are busily expecting their own Mumbai rampage. If they can’t get it together to prevent that in advance, why would we anticipate they will effectively screen airplanes flying into the U.S.?
Since we’re doing puns, how about a new meaning to having a “white (powdered) Christmas”?
Congrats to the people who subdued the sob…
I wonder WHY were his kneecaps not snapped, as well as his elbows?
Passengers should have open up the garbage can in the galley and pullout any pork trash and stuffed it in his mouth to keep him quiet…
I really wished he was made a cripple for life….
AND he should be waterboard asap and if he drowns? SO WHAT?
wake up folks this is institutional mass murder we are dealing with…
They do not fear death, they fear used tampons and pork….
TIme to HUMILIATE all Captured Islamic Terrorists…
THEY NEED TO KNOW WE WILL FEED THEM PORK AND WILL DEFILE THEM
16. wretchard:
Let me get this straight. A terrorist boards an airliner with explosive chemicals strapped to his legs and the proper response is to limit all airline passengers to one carry on bag per flight. And this solves the problem, how?
This is the danger that political correctness poses. Like Orwell’s newspeak, its goal is to make certain things unspeakable, certain thoughts unthinkable and worst of all, certain actions un-doable.
Our government is running out of PC blessed security measures; in fact, I could probably make a list of all of them.
No carry on luggage
All passengers will have to pass through chemical sniffing machines as well at metal detectors
No coats, hats or other outwear
Random strip searches and body cavity searches
No checked luggage (you’ll have to find other means to get your luggage to your destination)
All passengers will wear government provided clothing (aka orange jump suits) for the flight
Severely restrict everybody’s flying privileges
I know that a few of them sound downright outrageous, but as long as we’re trapped in this PC mind-think even the absurd measures are inevitable. What’s also inevitable is that none of these measures (or any others that have been used or can be used) will work.
The war is real, Yemen, Hamas, Hezbollah, Hugo Chavez, Syria, Iran. North Korea, AQKhan/ Pakis, Abbas et al…
Good news however from jpost
A car carrying Hamas operatives exploded in Beirut Saturday night, BBC’s Arab service reported. The BBC reported that a Hamas man was killed in the blast and three others were wounded, a claim Hamas denied.
The explosion occurred in a Hizbullah stronghold. Officials said the cause was unknown.
So this guy spends 20 minutes in the john, probably excreting a condum load of PETN, tapes it to his groin, and then uses a vial full of activator to ignite it??? Can we not infer that detection will henceforth only be possible with x-ray, or an internal body cavity search….
Its past time to cut the PC and go with profiling as the first line of defense.
I’m curious if any of the TSA procedural manual which was recently leaked enabled the attacker.
LOTM @ 9:
QFT! I love it!
PETN is used as an initiator for destruct ordnance in missiles and space boosters. I would doubt it was capable of bringing the aircraft down without being detonated in a more critical area, but it could have caused mass casualties.
Note that he did not try to set off the bomb while the aircraft was over the ocean and thus at altitude, which would have increased the probability of a catastrophe, but might have yielded another “mysterious lost Airbus” incident and thus not obvious terrorism. Or maybe OBL has stock in Airbus.
Actually we are not even handling the new Kamikazes with increased 20MM, 40MM, and 5 inch proximity fused projectiles on board the target ships but rather by increasing surveillance to be able to sort out the civilian sightseeing aircraft coming out to just look at all the U.S. ships from the enemy attack aircraft. The Bush Admin was not too crazy about armed flight crew and I don’t have to even inquire what the Obama Admin attitude is – which probably would amount to the pilots being able to carry guns only on those aircraft that are actually under attack and that only after review by a judge.
The guy was reportedly known as an associated of terrorists (info via his dad?) but was NOT on a No Fly list. Wonder what firewalls created that situation?
Pork Rinds #22: Now think, if you are John Q. Citizen and find yourself in position to have to overpower one of these creeps, why should you be gentle? They can’t waterboard him or interrogate him using harsh language or adult content, and they are going to give him the full rights of a U.S. Citizen and try him. So why would you NOT put him on the floor and see how many times his head will rotate before it comes off entirely? Why take the risk? Think about it.
This individual was able to sit still while his genitals were flaming like a BBQ?
How do you do that? I cannot imagine.
Suicide in the name of some higher calling I can get, yet how can one imagine this way of going. Even the goals are elusive.
You dont bring down the USA by blowing up a plane, even with thousands killed. That must be obvious to all.
The Palestinian bus bombers had only to detonate one switch to instant anhiliation. Israel security could identify most bombers because the head was blown clear off and mostly intact. Maybe some were remote controlled.
This must be some level of control that is difficult to understand. So, contrary to every human impulse and basic instinct, the enemy must have developed psychological tactics on a very high level.
The chemicals involved are no secret. We will learn where he went and whom he spent time with. The mind of this person holds much more.
He is alive and captured.
The learning curve is steep.
Never again,
Spindok
“At this point, there’s nothing to suggest that he was part of a wider conspiracy involving others,”
This could just as easily mean; “this son of a bitch was working with others and we damn well intend to ferret them out across the globe if necessary. We sure hope this support structure didn’t fold up its safe houses and remains relatively intact in order that we may arrest them.” Wishful thinking I suppose. I suspect that they covered their tracks as soon as Abdulmutallab pushed off. If he succeeded the heat would be off for a year or so while the FBI and the NTSB sorted through the debris. So I wonder if Interpol with their new sovereign authority to operate in the US will be any help. Do you think?
and if he was on a sole mission for God, is he still working with others?
I wouldn’t want to gratuitously hurt this man. Shoot a man if you must, but never, ever enjoy it. I understand somewhat what people are capable of. About 25 years ago someone I knew set up an agricultural project up in the Cordilleras. For reasons that were never clear to me he was set upon by New People’s Army. They sliced off all the flesh on his legs until he bled to death. They did this deliberately. Subsequently, they returned his effects to his relatives via a high ranking member of the Party and denied they had anything to do with it. What was that all about? Dunno. Maybe it was just some of the boys getting frisky. My guess is he tumbled on to a drug op. In the lowlife darkness all cats are gray.
My dad told me how the civilians caught a Japanese straggler in the closing days of the Battle of Manila in 1945. They tied him to a post on Vito Cruz street and a long line of people went up to this IJN trooper, who must have been in his twenties, and each smashed a stone into his face until there was nothing left of him. You may ask what this young Japanese man did to deserve this fate. You may also ask how many of the civilians had a son, daughter or a child bayoneted by the IJN. Two wrongs don’t make a right. But people are apt to forget that sometimes when they’re worked up. The Japanese soldiers preferred to surrender to the US Army, who didn’t always take prisoners but you can bet your boodle that surrender to the US Army was their only chance to survive.
People are cruel. War is cruel. You can’t prettify it. So if we are convinced that certain evil persons are bent on waging war on civilians, then we had best seek them out precisely and ruthlessly. Otherwise, the day may come when our enemies may unleash, by their own cruelties, the unreasoning wrath of civilians who will turn on other civilians; perhaps other innocents. And you can bet it will be ugly.
The best way forward, it seems to me, is to acknowledge that we are at war, but to sharpen our tools so that it strikes the guilty alone, or at least to the best of our discernment. And the more people perceive that their governments are fighting a no-nonsense fight against terrorism, the less apt they will be to forgetting themselves.
I think the passengers on the NWA flight did exactly what they should have done. The question is whether the authorities can say the same about themselves.
Alaska Paul, I have not used det cord, but seen it demonstrated and it’s powerful stuff. On the other hand, once when I was in the military a couple of the troops found a roll left on the range. Before adult supervision arrived they *burned* some of it- yes burned it, they thought it was fuse. So ignition is a critical part of any explosive setup and I guess we are lucky te terrorists are not good at it.
The greatest travesty of the war in Iraq was that we left our enemy with the distinct impression that it was a mistake on our part and our leadership who sent us there was hated and to be punished at home. I never thought that going to Iraq was a great idea but once we were committed then we should follow through to the bitter end, whatever that might be. The Democrats, instead of leaving domestic politics at our shore, wanted to punish GWB while we were in the thick of the battle. At first the message to Jihadi’s was; if you mess with America, we are going to go over there, kick your door down, grab you by the balls and drag you back to Guantanamo, if you were but lucky. The message turned into; if you do something and our leadership responds, we will try them for war crimes. Thanks Dems.
having focussed on exactly how the Muslim got that powder onto the airplane (with the help of this thread), I would expect the NEXT step of our overlords is to insist upon body cavity searches (first, applied randomly, and then, when they inevitably miss, on everyone.)
Really, who wants to go by air anymore? It’s worse than going by bus. And ships? Cruise ships? Now that the ‘jihad’ is moving on to Indonesia, note that Indonesia is a prime hiring ground for the cruise ships.
how about a new meaning to having a “white (powdered) Christmas”?
I notice no one has yet used the “liar, liar, pants on fire” meme.
The only part of the American national security establishment that successfully defended America on 9/11 was the portion of the reserve militia on board Flight 93, acting without orders, without hierarchy, without uniforms or weapons, by spontaneous organization and action.
The Unorganized Militia of Flight 253, led by Super Empowered Individual Jaspar Schuringa, defeated the enemy’s Super Empowered Individual Mutallab. This is a victory for which to be grateful and happy, credited not to Regular military, intelligence, law enforcement, or security operatives but to passengers and cabin crew who were Observant, quickly Orienting on the threat, Decisively Acting without dithering, and prevailing.
All BC’ers should remember what Jaspar did, and mentally prepare yourselves to be Heroes in Waiting every time you board a plane.
I have never been too concerned about collateral damage to civilians when a real war is underway. In one sense, it is good because
it intensifies the mutual hatred of both sides and the war can be conducted without restrictive rules of engagement. The war will
eventually conclude with a winner and a loser and before too long it will be a distant memory.
Wretchard #29:
Oh, I do not suggest torture for the sake of entertainment. But I am not skilled enough in hand to hand combat and restraining techniques to ensure that someone who is a threat will not be a continue to be a threat without using the method employed in “Highlander,” albeit without the sword. And when it comes to terrorists there can be only None.
Now here is an idea for air travelers. Airline pilots carry large plastic cable ties to use as emergency handcuffs. Slip a couple in your carryon bag or maybe even under your belt just in case.
I was discussing what was coming out on this incident with a friend, and something came to mind. If I may quote what I said then:
When Al Quada tries a new tactic involving airliners, how often do they make a one-off test? Three airliners on 9/11. I think 11 on the 1995 Pacific airline bomb plots out of the Phillipines [Jemaah Islamiyah]. I think 6 on the plan to blow up airliners over the North Atlantic in 2006 when a bunch of Brit Muslims were supposedly bringing liquid hypergolic explosives aboard. I have this really nasty feeling that they might not be done. Nor do I have any confidence in anyone above grunt level in this administration being willing to deal the attacks, even with advance warning. I would stay out of the sky for a while, especially if the aircraft is coming from a foreign country.
Subotai Bahadur
let’s face it, there is no way to detect and prevent this kind of attack.
that is, except to dissuade the perpetrators in advance, and you may estimate what it takes to dissuade jihadis in advance.
–
sb @ 37: four airplanes died on 9/11, and I recall stories that at least one more probably landed before it reached the critical point and the hijackers ran off, and some others may have been grounded before anyone could board but also had suspicious looking passenger lists.
Recently there have been reports of Muslim men disrupting planes in flight, creating a scene and generally causing a panic. Now comes a report of an unsuccessful attempt to combine chemicals to blow up a plane in flight. Seems to me that the Islamic terrorists are testing, testing, testing us, our methods, our security, our intel, our response. They want to push the envelope to see how much they can get away with before being stopped. What is going to happen when they combine both activities. You have a small group of Muslim men create a distraction in flight, start a fight, read loudly from the Koran, whatever. While that is going on and the flight attendants and passengers attention is focused on the disturbance, another, lone terrorist, sitting in his seat, seemingly not bothering anyone, suddenly combines these chemicals and creates an explosion large enough to bring down a jet airline and the 200 or so people on it. Yet our department of Homeland Security won’t even call them terrorists!! With President Bush you knew that we weren’t going to be attacked again, at least not on our own soil. Do you still feel that way with Barry Obambi in the WH???
First my experience with TSA is not current and my opinion is not official but it is probably accurate.
The attempt to destroy the Detroit flight was not a TSA failure because he did not board in the United States where TSA is. There is an ongoing story being built that screening is ineffective because of PC. That is used as a shorthand or really a cover for a call to either “profile” meaning screen muslims to the exclusion of others or to simply exclude moslems. Such policies are inadvisable as called for and the reference to PC is misapplied in that security is not simply hurt by a squeamishness about inspecting moslems. Are there reasons to inspect some moslems more carefully? Yes and the manual that was improperly released contained directions to screen persons carrying some passports more intensively.
For reasons that have already been gone over persons from other ethnic or religious backgrounds cannot be exempted from screening. It would be impossible to tell anyway who the threat is that way. Would you go up to everyone in the airport asking “Are you a moslem?” like the Orthodox who come up to you in NY and ask if you are a jew. Aside from the fact that al-Qaeda may instruct their operatives to lie at that point, the scoundrels, there are other obvious limitations to that approach. Most moslems are not arabs. Will you then focus on South and East Asians and Filipinos to ensure that they are not secret Indonesians? Will you be able to tell the real Sikh from the jihadi pretending to be a Sikh? How do you react to the fact that most arabs in America are not moslems but christians of Lebanese descent? Will you then exempt Christian arabs from screening, if they prove they are not moslem by eating bacon at the checkpoint? Then again many of the early pioneers of Palestinian terrorism were of a christian background. The members of the minority often are found in the revolutionary vanguard. So maybe we should focus more on college educated christians. The point is that the threat is not limited to one easily identifiable ethnic group, this guy was a black african not an arab, and is a political and religious ideology. They will use an innocent as a mule. They will recruit members of other groups. Adam Yahiye Gadahn was born Adam Pearlman. Are we going to focus on every crazy jew in California? It is a tempting idea but it may not be the most efficient way to proceed.
Of course I over state the problem and we do need to both provide a basic level of screening to everyone and then screen identified threats more intensively. The point is that just saying more moslems and fewer grandmothers is not the best way to improve security. There are two problems that could be called PC related that effect security.
One is the plethora of special sensitivities that are imposed on the screeners, with the moslems being a small part of the problem. Indeed the concern I have is that all the noise from other passengers needing accommodation in some way may mask the signal of the real threat. There are posters all over TSA work spaces pointing out the difference between moslems and sikhs and their head gear. Since we do not screen them any differently because of their religion why is this information imposed on the screening staff? It is to assuage the sensitivities of the sikhs. The Pennsylvania Dutch should demand that government spend hundreds of thousands of dollars distributing posters about their hats just so that they can get equal time. Mothers traveling with babies are allowed ice packs and packaged breast milk that other passengers would not be allowed. Mothers can show up with strollers that cannot fit through the x-ray machine. People who believe in homeopathy show up with little vials that can not be put through the x-ray and are inspected by having you look at them as the owner holds it up before you. If it was up to me I would then ETD inspect the owners hands to see if they had been handling explosives, since you can’t wipe the sacred vial itself. Of course if it was peroxide they were smuggling to make an explosive that would demand a different test and it would not do to test the hands. Every TSA screener, they are called officers now God help us, has to see a movie in training on screening “People With Disabilities.” The whole point of the hour is not reviewing specific techniques, although some are usefully gone over, but to communicate the self worth of the people at whose behest the film was made. In it a man in a wheelchair says “I am just like you I drive a nice car. I have a nice job and a family.” This is being watched by entry level screeners who probably are making a lot less money than the man in the video. The HR Program Manager who introduces the video emits more signals of wealth and power than a duchess in a 1930s costume drama. It always surprised me after I showed the film that the new hires didn’t go out and find some disabled person to knock down.
That leads to the second issue that limits the possibility of shifting to a system where we just pick out the bad guys first. Think of who is doing the screening and making these judgements. It has to as mechanical as possible in deciding who gets sent to secondary screening because the person saying please go to that line is a very entry level Federal employee. Who here wants to give them more discretion in the use of power? The original idea was to hire the TSA as “Screeners” to do just that screen and if anything alarms refer to a trained officer, LEO or Aviation Security Inspector or a Supervisor for further evaluation. That quickly was changed into Screeners resolving their own alarms and now they are called Officers, get shields and uniforms that look like LEO gear and they are getting a union. All of those are bad ideas.
BDOs can work but there are to few of them and they need to be carefully selected and inspected separate from the regular crony ridden TSA staff. Most of the Managers at TSA are retired police sergeants with neither the aptitude nor the interest in effectively managing a workforce like TSA has. The internal promotions may be no better given local politics, the presence of many former private security people from before TSA who stayed on, and a priority on reducing turnover and avoiding EEO complaints. The evaluation system is an expensive complicated fraud. The organization should be returned to its roots, Screeners demoted to Screeners and real Federal LEO Managers from CBP should be put in charge. The trained Aviation Security Inspector (ASI) force should be expanded to provided an unarmed authority in addition to the armed presence that CBP could provide. This would also provide a career path for Federal Air Marshals to move into. Right now their job is a dead end.
To be blogged under the title “On Airport Screening.”
#1 Thrasymachus, #33 PA cat- my first thought was “Hunka hunka burning love.”
On Fox News right now they are saying that this guy was known as a possible threat for the last two years.
Subotai #37: I fear you are right. Unfortunately I can think of more than one way to smuggle explosives on board an airliner so to very probably escape detection. I have not been on an airliner since Aug 2001 nor aloft since then in an airplane I was not flying myself, and I am glad I don’t have to any more.
How many people here are willing to risk their lives or those of friends or family so that Muslims can have the PRIVILEGE of flying to or around the US?
I’ll start the count at zero from the Steeple family and will leave it there until someone suggests otherwise.
Thank you Wretchard for the cautions against revenge mentality. You are a gentleman as well as a scholar.
The passengers were heroes; the Dutchman should get a medal. If only we could elect a president who could figure what measures to take as quickly as the average airline passenger.
Did I not hear that the threat level was raised to orange? I thought Obama did away with threat levels?
The way Obama’s policies and initiatives are obviated or mocked by ensuing events is ironically delicious; health care by the economy, Iran raproachment as Iranians revolt, climate agreement by climategate, and backing out of TWOT while continuing terror attacks (and plots) happen at home. He wouldn’t look so foolish if he didn’t try so hard; a new congress will help that.
Hmm. Formatting scrod in # 37 above. All the last paragraph is a quote.
#36 RWE
The reason simply to give no quarter, is simply because most of us are not young. There is a saying I read recently, to the effect of “Do not screw with an old man. He has neither time nor energy for games. He’ll just kill you.”
I gave an object lesson in that to one of my officers back before I retired. I was within a couple of months of retirement. I was an old, and somewhat beat up SGT. We were all required to engage in ….. training …. wherein a felon had to be physically subdued, full contact. One of my officers played the felon. I am 30+ years older, and have a lot more mileage and wear. He is considerably bigger than I. The troops were really not pushing hard, or taking it seriously trying to take him down. When our turn came, I went in full bore. There are holds that convince you that various joints are not going to be connected much longer, and if you don’t let up, they won’t. We came in and before he was totally horizontal I had applied one, and he was screaming the safeword. I had no intention of getting hurt dancing around. There is no point in doing that when you can protect yourself by taking the other guy out right smartly.
If any citizen is defending the country in this situation, don’t fool around. You are not trying to take a prisoner for interrogation and trial. We can’t interrogate them anymore, and the trial will be run by the collection of lop-eared duds running this country. The enemy are trying to kill you and as many Americans as they can. Your only hope is to do any-bloody-thing to make sure that they are never in a position to do so, ever. On an airliner, it is all or nothing as far as survival is concerned. No second place winners.
#20 Pork Rinds for Allah
If by some chance you do end up with a prisoner, the pork is not a bad idea at all. The enemy is largely motivated by religious ideology and a promise of paradise. They are willing and eager to die, and to endure excruciating pain in the process with that goal in mind. If you have to hold one of them for any length of time, they are going to try to complete their mission [and incidentally, kill you if you get in the way or as part of the process]. If they are desecrated with pork, they cannot enter paradise no matter what; until undergoing proper purification [wūdū and gūsl, etc. according to Islamic law]. If they die, they go to hell instead. It might take some of the fight and dedication out of them. After you turn them over to the authorities, you can be sure that your tax dollars will be used to pay for an Imam to pat them on the po-po and make their immortal soul all better. But that is afterwards, and you and yours will still be alive.
There are those who say that I am not a nice person. They are right.
Subotai Bahadur
#41 Jim in Virginia
Rumor has it that the perp was all wee-weed up.
It is simply too late.
Obama and the Dems and Media and Liberals are all on the side of the terrorists. In one way or another.
NYC WILL be a smoking radioactive crater in the ground. Period.
And the reaction WILL be just as Wretchard surmises. Obama bets that a massive terrorist attack killing millions will allow him to institute Martial Law and rule by decree forever like Chavez, and allow him to be Marshall Petain or America’s Vizier. This is Obama, this is who he is.
My take however is that Obama first risks being nuked himself, and secondly that America would simply reject him. What good is a leader who not only does not seek victory over enemies but did not want to fight at all and preferred to surrender? Galtieri found out in Argentina what happens to leaders who bring defeat. America will be in open revolt if Obama tries to impose surrender to Jihad after NYC is nuked. Which he will.
So what will be the fallout? Without any leadership that has legitimacy (because it did not even TRY to protect the people, instead protecting PC and Multiculturalism and Diversity), people will look to themselves.
Muslims will be expelled/deported/interned. Islam will not be tolerated, much less the Jihad network of Mosques, Jihadi preachers and instigators, and websites. It will be a war of the peoples, as the war in the Pacific 1941-1945 was. As bloody and decisive (one people must destroy the other) as that conflict was.
But clearly, the whole problem of Diversity and Multiculturalims and PC must go. Be jettisoned for survival. Who can fly into the US?
There is no problem if ONLY White Europeans who are not Muslims are flying into the US. Too bad for Nigerians and such who are not part of Jihad, but America and Americans owe them nothing.
Contra Wretchard, the USSR was defeated NOT by espionage — as Aldrich Ames and other traitors made clear, the US intel operation was pretty thoroughly penetrated, grossly ineffective, and basically a joke.
Reagan forced an economically unsustainable arms race, while leaning on the Saudis to bankrupt the USSR by cheap oil (the Saudis listened because of Afghanistan).
What are the implications for the US? Simply defeat Islam. Create fear and terror (but measured fear and terror) and make Muslims poor. Impoverished and often starving Muslims in Mali or Niger don’t form Jihadis. They are too busy trying to survive. If Pakistan was turned into a starving place where everyone was just trying to get a meal, too poor to be on the global trade operations, they would cause no problems.
Look at Umar Mutallab. The son of a Wealthy Nigerian Banker. We would have no problems with him if his father had never been allowed to be wealthy in the first place, rather simply scratching for survival.
Nuclear proliferation implies that the US SHOULD make the rest of the developing world AS POOR AS POSSIBLE if it Muslim. We don’t fear Uruguay or Brazil or even Nicarauga (run by a Marxist dynasty again). We do fear Egypt, and Saudi, and Pakistan, and Iraq, and Nigerians. No problem if they are all made so poor they are constantly starving.
Yes this is ugly. Much of life can be. Those who do not recognize reality are defeated by those who do. One way or another, America will demand this be done: make the Muslim world (all of it) starvation-level poor. Because nuclear weapons are the great equalizer.
[The US could "tolerate" planes dropping over populated areas killing thousands and sustain the political system of PC and Diversity and Multiculturalism and not fighting jihad -- but less so in the permanent depression. Women particularly are invested in this system because it gives them power at the expense of the military and defense establishments. But that is a thin margin.]
RWE,
(who will not fly commercially since 9-11)
I’d suggest trains could stage a revival but the government did for that industry what they will now do to health care. Trains are more of a security nightmare than planes are.
Kae Arby,
You do not want TSA doing random cavity searches. The reductio ad absurdum does not improve security. We need an airline industry. Checked baggage is not the problem. We want everything sent to checked baggage. The problem is what they are allowed to bring past the passenger screening checkpoint. People hate checking bags for several reasons;
1. Fear of theft by luggage handlers
2. Fear of delay at baggage claim
3. Work, child care or similar issues.
There are ways of dealing with these issues.
1. Put cameras in all baggage handling areas with displays in the public area. Just knowing this is being watched by strangers will cut theft by 90%. The TSA inspection areas, where baggage is opened could not be seen by the public but should be under management surveillance.
2. To bad, next question?
3. No carry on that weighs more than 2 kilos should be allowed, that would cover the executive laptop or book, except for childcare items needed on the flight. That means that the ice chest with the weeks supply of breast milk and the Rolls Royce of baby strollers should be sent to checked baggage before coming to the passenger checkpoint.
I have noticed this, but have not seen it written elsewhere.
Like this: No US Marshal put the cuffs on him. Delta Force did not kick down his door. A Predator did not blow him up.
The government did not stop this guy.
A private citizen did.
The old saw is true: to wait for the government to be your savior is to be a bystander in your own life.
If we did absolutely nothing in the way of passenger screening and simply stoped issuing visas to Muslims and/or stopped allowing them to fl into or within the USA it would be at least as effective as all the screening we are doing now and at a fraction of the cost.
They enemy would like us to believe that there are zillions of xealots out there dying to commit suicide attacking infidels but if that were the case we would have long since lost this war. The fact is even in Iraq most of the suicide bombers were coerced. Such zealots do exist but in relatively small numbers and there would be a lot fewer of them if we changed our strategy from point defenses of a thousands of airports and airplanes to active attacks military and psychological on the enemy. But of course before that becomes politically feasible we would have to agree on who and what the enemy is. That is one thing we have been unwilling to do for or own psychological and ideological reasons.
The enemy for those of you unclear on the concept is not terrorism but Islam. Terrorism is merely the tool while Islamism is as pernicious as the other totalitarian ‘isms we have had to face Fascism, Nazism, communism. If we insist on granting Islamism moral legitimacy it will destroy us as surely as if we granted Nazism or communism moral legitimacy.
LifeofMind #48:
Oh, I would fly commercial air if I needed to. It’s just that I have not needed to do so since August 2001 and I’m glad of the fact.
“Time to spare,then go by air” must be never more true now than ever before.
And they would not let me carry a gun, anyway.
Subotai #45: Yep. And I’ll bet the Marquis of Queensbury never had a 50 something guy hit him with a chair, either. Besides, I will naturally use a military approach, not a law enforcement one, and while I will not have one of those red boxes pop up in my vision that says “TARGET IDENTIFIED: DESTROY” like a Cyberdyne T-888, it may as well be there.
Do you know, it isn’t until this post that it occurred to me an additional weapon would be to carry some form of pork… I have been dense.
Subotai Bahadur, #45: If any citizen is defending the country in this situation, don’t fool around. You are not trying to take a prisoner for interrogation and trial. We can’t interrogate them anymore, and the trial will be run by the collection of lop-eared duds running this country. The enemy are trying to kill you and as many Americans as they can. Your only hope is to do any-bloody-thing to make sure that they are never in a position to do so, ever. On an airliner, it is all or nothing as far as survival is concerned. No second place winners.
Open question: If someone does just what SB urges, and the Feds respond by prosecuting him, would that be grounds to immediately commence an armed revolt? (Not even waiting around for NYC to get nuked, as in Whiskey’s scenario.)
Brian Dunbar, #49: The government did not stop this guy.
A private citizen did.
And a non-US citizen, at that… one who, as I’ve already pointed out farther up the thread, may have just brought more trouble upon himself in the process, once he returns home.
LOTM – it seems to me that reduced down to the lowest bottom line, we want Muslims screened for because as a whole, America (and most likely the rest of the world, too) have taken their measure and we simply don’t want them here, not even as tourists. They do *not* have a “rich cultural heritage”, they are *not* nice people, they do *not* believe in equality, and if they aren’t arrogantly rich then they are arrogantly poor and insistant upon their antideluvian traditions like no seeing eye dogs allowed.
Muslims as a people bring absolutely nothing to the party, and the evidence so far is that they are immune to the pleasures of becoming an American going so far as to kill each other for being “too Americanized” … although it’s perfectly OK to return to Pakistan and join the jihad.
I think we should screen for Muslims just to send a big huge “Keep Out” message, because in the Declaration of Independence there is not one single clause that guarantees all humanity the god-given right to come to America.
“Muslims as a people bring absolutely nothing to the party”
But individuals who happen to be Muslim do.
I have worked with Muslims in the ‘stans, Middle East, Europe & the US. They are just as variable as individual Christians, and nicer as a group than Western liberals. The problem is not the faith, it is certain individuals.
So how should we deal with the terrorist problem on planes? Instead of aiming for a situation where no-one on a plane has a weapon (an almost impossible goal to meet), why not try the reverse — a plane on which every passenger is armed?
Instead of Thousands Standing Around and air marshals, we could have a small number of nice people handing out loaner weapons to those passengers who neglected to bring their own. Pepper sprays for conscientious objectors and old ladies. Knives & batons for those who want to take things seriously.
Knowing that every passenger was armed would completely change the risk/reward assessment for terrorists planning to subvert the plane. And it might give all of us the benefits of much more polite & considerate fellow passengers.
Instead of Thousands Standing Around and air marshals, we could have a small number of nice people handing out loaner weapons to those passengers who neglected to bring their own. Pepper sprays for conscientious objectors and old ladies. Knives & batons for those who want to take things seriously.
I’m a big believer in the every day, off the shelf, can of red pepper powder available at your local grocery store. Got any ideas how I could fashion a self-defense weapon full of red pepper that would pass muster at the check point? A converted poison ring, perhaps. Or perhaps a locket full of the stuff?
Kenny #39: Here is something to think about. If those Muslims were not in reality throwing up “chaff” and otherwise making it easier for terrorists to take over or destroy airplanes, then what ARE they doing?
After lurking for years reading the excellent comments that readers of the Belmont Club make, I’m making my first contribution to the discussion, albeit a technical one.
In a former life, I dealt with the dark underbelly of this world, even sacrificed my family on the alter of patriotism so people could sleep safely at night. So it turns out that I know something about PETN. In my opinion, he failed at his task (thankfully) because he used the wrong ignitor. If he had used TATP, as the ignitor for the PETN, he probably would have been successful. TATP, which Hamas bombmakers have coined as “The Mother of Satan”, is extremely unstable and difficult to handle in a safe manner. They probably chose not to use TATP because he would have blown his leg off before he even got to the airport.
I’m sure this was a test run and that they’ve learned from their failure and will be lining up to take another stab at it. People capable of making PETN and crafting it into an explosive device aren’t used in suicide missions. They’re too valuable. This guy was a foot soldier. There is no way he was acting alone.
All talk about profiling or more sophisticated security procedures both at the airport and before (no-fly lists and such)…
When I fly, the TSA personnel strike me as a bunch of mopes. Well-meaning, sure, but not the kind sof people who can make sophisticated life-safety judgements on the fly (as it were). Are they capable of much more than they already do? If more sophisticated measures are to be taken, how to implement through the confusion of the federal bureaucracy not to mention leadership that is, shall we say, conflicted about how serious to be?
Sara #56:
I have seen it suggested that wasp killer spray, which has a long range spray and a highly noxious nature, makes a better “mace” than the “real” stuff. And it kills wasps. Carburetor cleaner spray is another off-the shelf mace substitute. Now, I don’t think they would let you take those on an airplane.
You know how rub-on stick deoderants come in push up containers? How about you take one of those, put an old piston from an old one in the bottom and fill it with your favorite pepper, then put a cut down piece of the deorderant stick in the top. You can push on the bottom, pop the deorderant out the top, and push the pepper out. The deorderant should help disguise the smell of the pepper.
Pork Rinds for Allah -
I keep thinking of the General(?) that was relieved by Teddy Roosevelt in the Philippines for shooting the Muslim prisoners with ammo dipped in pig blood(?)… Sorry for all of the question marks… Thing is, I believe it worked…
K said – “The problem is not the faith, it is certain individuals.”
Hmm yeah. There were millions of good Germans and just a handful of evil individuals so how did the Nazis come to power? Even if I believed that and even if it were true would you have been giving German Nazis multiple entry visas to the USA in 1942?
There is not going to be a moderate Islam unless we go to work right now tarring everyone connected with Islam. The burden of proof that there is a moderate Islam and good Islamists is and ought to be on Muslims at this point. They are not entitled to the presumption of innocence in the middle of a war.
Ok.. It was Pershing and it’s not confirmed according to Snopes…
Swear I read it in a TR biography… Or, it was wishful thinking.
I have seen it suggested that wasp killer spray, which has a long range spray and a highly noxious nature, makes a better “mace” than the “real” stuff. And it kills wasps. Carburetor cleaner spray is another off-the shelf mace substitute. Now, I don’t think they would let you take those on an airplane.
Good ideas, not for a plane, obviously, but something to remember for home protection.
Many years ago, I moved into a small apt. One of those bungalow types that dot certain areas of San Diego. It had a big ground level picture window. One night a very scruffy guy, very drunk, started banging on the window and demanding some guy named Joe open the door. It scared the heck out of me, mostly because I thought he was going to break the window and get in. He was obviously crazy and out of control.
I grabbed my phone and went to the back and called my Mother. I was nearly hysterical and kept saying I have no weapon, I’m trapped, what should I do. She said, “no weapon?” She then told me to go get a can of red pepper or chili powder from the kitchen and my claw hammer. She also said that the toilet lid makes an excellent weapon so be ready to swing. So I gathered all my “weapons” together and went back to the couch and sat there with a can of red pepper, my claw hammer, and the toilet lid, and dared the guy (in my mind) to break in.
As I thought back on this later, I laughed at the fact that neither of us even considered calling the police. Libertarians to the end, or some such drivel.
Men have their brawn, women have to get creative, although as heavy as my purse is, I could probably take out a hijacker with it with one healthy swing.
#12 Josh . . .
On a previous thread I said that all us passengers should carry our own weapons. Your tie/garotte is EXACTLY what I had in mind. Before embarking on any aircraft (or public bus, for that matter), one should be equipped with weapons and be READY TO KILL terrorists.
I’m sorry that Mr. Whatshisname wasn’t killed by the passengers. We need to send a message. We should also carry packaged pork bits so that we can impurify any terrorist’s body. Maybe some Allah-seeking terrorists might be deterred, knowing that they’ll never reach orgy-heaven if they mess with armed American passengers.
This has all been said before, but we need to remind ourselves to defend ourselves and kill our enemies. Right now, our government is also our enemy, so we can’t look to it for protection.
Friends and I had a vacation planned for Sept. 2001, and I was to fly out of Boston on AA on the 18th. That did not happen, and I ended up donating the ticket voucher I was assigned…to whom, for what, I no longer remember. But I’ll never forget, in the interim, plotting flight survival strategies with those friends. Purse straps featured heavily. And jewelry, especially earrings, and shoes with heels. And lots of dark humor.
We were only half joking about our weaponry though. I may never fly in casual clothes again.
we need to start sending the terrorists cans of spam….. start a spam drive…
spam for the jihadists….
any ideas how to pull that off?
One interesting metric would be how far US intelligence has come since 9/11 toward being able insert American assets within that and similar organizations
I’d say that’s close to zero.
1) Can you trust a Muslim spy? I’d say not, Islam teaches Muslims must never be loyal to infidels.
2) Does your non-Muslim spy know enough about Islam and the Quran to fool Islamic zealots?
3) How many rapes and murders must the spy commit to pass loyalty tests? I don’t think any spy with a shred of conscience could psychologically survive the cesspit of Islam.
Please do not give advice on smuggling prohibited items onto an aircraft. It is one thing to argue that the policy should be changed. There was an episode of All in the Family some 30 years ago in which Archie suggested arming the passengers, so Norman Lear got there first. It is another thing to place our host or fellow Belmonters in a legal bind. Anyone caught with a modified container would be in big trouble.
The trick would be figuring out how to prepare it so that it was available in one of those itty bitty bottles that TSA lets you store in a carry-on…….. Cayenne pepper powder mixed w/ordinary rubbing alcohol makes a hellacious pepper spray substitute.
Somehow, I suspect that if it became common knowledge that passengers were carrying little tubes of pig fat disguised as 3 oz toothpastes… some imam somewhere would declare that holy warriors engaged in jihad are specifically exempted from the usual “pork exposure cleansing ritual” by allah because of their “sacrifice.”
Stab’em with a pork chop, and break it off in’em.
tee:
When I lived in NYC, we were given a self defense class at work that was targeted to protecting yourself on the street against muggers.
High heels and keys were the top choice makeshift weapons recommended for women. Thread the keys through your fingers with the pointed sides palm in and use them to rake the eyes of an attacker. I never walked in heels, but many women did and a good crunch to the top of the foot with a spike heel was a good way to gain a few seconds to run. But most of all we were taught to give a good swift kick to the groin to bring a man down quickly.
To this day, I always thread my keys any time I have to walk at night, especially in dark parking lots.
I have to agree with some of the previous posters that Obama is an utter failure when dealing with terrorists and intelligence on terrorism. Obama refusal to profile terrorists is a travesty.
Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab was probably like Richard Reid and did not make the PENT explosive. It may have been a test run. Or, it may have been a quick but unsuccessful retaliation against Obama’s “Clinton style” cruise missile attack on Yemen terror camps. Who knows.
One thing is certain, Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab had a profile and the Obama failed to screen him from our shores. Sneaking PENT aboard and attempting to set it off in an airborne airliner -above a large American city during Christmas – is extraordinary feat. It is also an extraordinary security failure during Obama’s watch.
I may have previously expressed this but, the quicker Obama and his caviler cronies are legally removed from office the safer America will become.
48. Lifeofthemind:
You’re darned right I don’t want TSA searching my cavities. That list isn’t things that I think should happen, these are the only things that I see (admittedly from an outside perspective) left to do…just one ineffective policy after another. For the most part, you and I are in agreement; and personally, I have absolutely no patience for politics when lives are [potentially] on the line and the stuff you describe in comment #40 is politics. The special senstivities you mentioned tell me that the government is more concerned about the sensitivities of varous groups than they are about my life when I’m on the other side of those metal detectors…and that makes me mad.
Now that I’ve read the entire thread, I see that many Belmont Clubbers are ready to defend themselves against terrorists on airplanes.
The terrorists should be very afraid. We’re not going to let them achieve their goals. Americans and other civilized people will win the war against barbarism, as we always do.
We’re also going to stamp out PC ASAP in 2010 AD.
But most of all we were taught to give a good swift kick to the groin to bring a man down quickly.
Men will never expect that.
Homeland Security is our Maginot Line. It will be outflanked when the enemy figures out how.
I wouldn’t trust them to keep throwing themselves at airports. There are a lot of other ways to hurt us.
55. Kinuachdrach:
K said – “The problem is not the faith, it is certain individuals.”
62. Joe Hill:
Even if I believed that and even if it were true would you have been giving German Nazis multiple entry visas to the USA in 1942?
////////
The problem is the faith of the Moslems and not the individuals. The analogy with the Germans is not quite right. More accurate than to refer to the Germans would be would be to refer to Nietzche who said that the atheism that was gripping Europe would cause millions of deaths. He was right.
I agree that this is no time to be letting in Moslems. In fact, I don’t know that there is ever a good time to be letting in Moslems.
Men will never expect that.
Oh I expect men always expect that, but then the class was taught by a man.
I try not to get discouraged, however. I was attacked a few years ago by a man a foot taller and a hundred pounds heavier and got my back broken in the process. I realized when he jumped me from behind and got me face down and then jumped on me, landing his knee in the small of my back, that when I heard the crack there was no sense in struggling anymore. I figured I was going to die, so I just started praying. I lived through it, but the consequences have been pretty severe, including a permanent disability, PTSD, and an inability to go anywhere without someone with me, preferably someone young, strong, and still believing he is invincible. I used to drive this country thousands of miles a year, coast to coast, and never was afraid even once. Now I have trouble going to my own bank, three blocks from my house.
But…if on a plane with a scumbag wanting to blow us up, I would go down fighting.
Homeland Security is our Maginot Line
Anyone who thinks they can depend on law enforcement, federal or state, is living a fantasy.
Now they’re saying that this Nigerian spent a month in Yemen training for this mission. Probably with the same Imam that mentored the Ft Hood terrorist.
The military recently sent some cruise missiles and other ordinance in that direction. We need to continue that.
As always AQ looks for a safe haven in lawless parts of the Muslim realm.
What will happen if or rather, WHEN the US prosecutes guys who act like the Dutch citizen on NWA?
Not much, overtly. Citizens in this country are told to shut up and do as they are told. Mostly, they do just that. They cannot afford not to, since the US and local law enforcement has awesome powers which are as Mark Steyn, Theodore Dalrymple, and others have noted are aimed nearly 100% AT ORDINARY LAW ABIDING CITIZENS. And not terrorists, criminals, and the like.
Violations of PC-Multiculturalism-Diversity Orthodoxy is punished severely!
However, that is one more aspect that leads people to seethe and be angry, and find no legitimacy to their government. Eventually the conflict between PC-Diversity-Multiculturalims and all the “pretty lies” that we tell ourselves (Islam is a religion of peace, nearly all Muslims are nice people we just haven’t hugged yet, we can live peacefully with Muslims if just (pick any or all) Israel ceased to exist, or we left Iraq, or Afghanistan, or bowed lower to the Saudi King, etc.).
Most people recognize, however, that is Muslims themselves that are the problem. Not because they are cartoons of evil who like a Buffy the Vampire Slayer character decided “I’m going to be evil today!” but because polygamy creates a rage all to familiar with those who look at the aftermath of Timothy McVeigh, or Cho Sung-Hui, or George Soldini, or Klebold and Harris, or John Muhammad and Lee Boyd Malvo. The modern West too, creates losers in the sexual marketplace as French writer Michel Houellebecq (“Elementary Particles”) noted. We too suffer like Muslims themselves suffer (from having guys with no hope of wives blow themselves up).
We just create less of them.
Please note: sex != marriage. The availability of prostitutes and pornography can arguably make things WORSE for guys like Mohammed Atta, or Tim McVeigh, or George Soldini, or John Mohammed.
Here in the US, only the mentally ill, unbalanced, losers in the marketplace of sex go on “non-Jihad Jihad” and so they are deadly to those in their vicinity when they go off, but without an organized religion, ideology, organizers, cause, and there are not that many of them. Far more “losers in the marketplace” exist than those who are both the losers in the marketplace and mentally ill (thus without restraints). Even those who lose can console themselves with material goods, various social causes, the comfort of the material world. BUT … crucially they won’t be invested in the society nor will they die to defend it. Their own lives are paramount and they let everyone else go hang, with the younger ones willing to gamble on almost anything!
As long as the threat is not present (i.e. NYC is not a smoking radioactive crater in the ground, and OTHER CITIES ARE NOT AFRAID OF FOLLOWING), the balance rests with women (winners in the sexual marketplace — look at how many could share Tiger Woods), the PC elite, and the jihadis who have a free hand.
IF we have millions dead in NYC (a slam dunk certainty eventually), then the huge mass of our own counterparts to underwear bombers, Mohammed Atta, and so on will throw in with whoever promises both victory (by killing most Muslims world-wide, basically) AND an up-ended world order with the low brought high and the high (the current elite) permanently replaced.
Nevertheless, just as the Muslim world cannot withstand injection of wealth and technology into its society of mostly permanent male sex-marketplace losers staring at a life without meaning, value, or love, the West cannot long withstand the lesser but still (because of the absolute size of the West) large amounts of their own male marketplace losers.
I would not bet on “technology” trumping numbers and will. The Germans and Japanese had some astonishing technology, as did the late Romans, and were still overwhelmed by their enemies. The late Romans had fantastic catapults, near machine-gun arrow firing mechanisms, some type of Greek Fire, and were totally destroyed by mobs of people who the Arabs simply rolled over: the Visigoths, Vandals, Ostrogoths, etc.
I wonder what the post NYC nuked world will be like? IMHO, smaller, poorer, with for example, air travel restricted to very important VIPs, no real airline travel, which will make the greens happy. Forests rapidly chopped down for firewood won’t but then they’ll be struggling themselves.
I don’t know what Obama could do and I much prefer he leave things to someone who is at least competent, but every time I see a news report of how he went to the gym and then out to play golf, without making a single public statement, it just frosts me. Would Bush sit at the ranch and not say a word to calm the country down during one of the heaviest air travel weeks of the year? I don’t think so. Obama is such an incompetent wuss. I want to respect his office as president, but I’m beginning to despise the man, not just politically, but as a man, a person.
Dan M: I am reasonably knowledgeable about the Philippine War. And the only General who was relieved (ordered retired) was Jake Smith.
He shot off his mouth after Balingigga and di so more than once in the presence of (among others) L. W. T. Wallers Samar Battalion of Marines.
Then he perjured himself about the matter when Waller was brought up on charges and
found Not Guilty. This was in 1901 or so.
Pershing’s Moro Campaigns came in 1912 after TR was out of office.
Joseph Schott’s “Ordeal of Samar” is the best book I know of on Balangigga, Waller
and The Court Martial That Wasn’t.
What will happen if or rather, WHEN the US prosecutes guys who act like the Dutch citizen on NWA?
Good question. Law and Order, the lefty propaganda TV show, says vigilantism is worse than evil, worse than the murderer or the rapist, worse than the terrorist.
I say, let’s roll, and start with Harvard and work our way through the rest of the Ivy League, then on to the think tanks, the major media outlets, and then we go after what everyone left knows is true evil, the Muslim extremists.
We live in a country where 6 year olds are tasered by police officers, Eagle Scouts are suspended for something in the trunk of the car, putting a Christmas display up in certain areas is considered law breaking, where employees get fired for saying Merry Christmas, and where we care more about some stupid smelt than farmers and producers, real people suffering.
Now they’re saying that this Nigerian spent a month in Yemen training for this mission.
Isn’t Obama planning to send a bunch of Gitmo detainees back to Yemen? Why, yes he is:
Washington Post:
A lone actor? Heh. Anyone doubt Mr. B. and his team would have authorized aggressive interrogation if there were any sign this fellow was less than fully cooperative (assuming it even had happened given Mr. B’s daily question of “what else do you need me to ok to keep us safe?” at his morning Intel brief – since the only place foreign and domestic security authorities intersect in the U.S. is at his desk – given we don’t have an MI5 or the equivalent organization that exists in all the other 1st world democracies). Or doubt that he would have personally assured the interrogators of protection from both our and international courts?
What about Mr. O? Nemesis, thy name is..
(Granted, Mr. Clinton had captives tortured (in the medieval & original sense of the word), but he could claim his and our hands were clean since he practiced (not only safe sex but) “aggressive rendition.”)
Anyone know how the Take Scissors Away Agency feels about canes?
I assume they are Okay if you are limping.
So take a half inch hunk of rebar, bend it into a cane shape, wrap it with athletic tape and put those rubber chair feet on each end and then do your best Hugh Laurie impression. Don’t forget the irascible part. Use terms like “young whippersnapper” when referring to the stewardesses for good measure. If they try to take your cane say “Keep your hands off that sonny! You want me to fall over?”
Rebar canes, pepper spray deodorant, and I bet I could build a stun gun into an electric razor. These are all good ideas. I should start a business. Call it ScariAir Supply.
#40 – LOTM
Some time ago, Glenn Beck explained how the El Al people checked out the people on their flights. He ended his story with the fact that on El Al flights, passengers are given ***metal*** knives and forks with which to eat their meals.
So apparently the methods used – many of which are purely psychological – are extremely effective.
Of course, what they do takes time and enormous expertise (read high cost), so it’s most likely not fully applicable to “regular” high-volume airlines. But perhaps some of it is…
Women use your wiles and your charms, cry, gently hold your hands palm towards the attacker and say “please” as your hands near his face lace your fingers around the back of his head and drive both thumbs deep in his eye sockets.
Men, tackle and go to ground, take your fist and beat the fellow about the temples and neck until he is dead.
Get mad and stay mad till the attacker is worm food.
Wretchard said:”I wouldn’t want to gratuitously hurt this man. Shoot a man if you must, but never, ever enjoy it.”
That sort of thinking is why I subscribe to this place. Do what you must but try to remain sane.
Islam is a political ideology that has been at war with Christians, Jews and Hindus since the 600s. Read the Wisdom Documents, the Koran and the Biographies. When the Koran is examined contemporaneous with Mohammed’s life you will find that almost every Sura is self serving, “revealed” to help Mohammed advance his personal interests and solidify the supremacist feelings of his desert mafia.
Only a brain addled by post-modern nonsense would fail to see the truth that 1,400 years of experience has made clear.
keelie aka philip,
We have a Behavior Detection Officer (BDO) program. The problem is that since it is in TSA the wrong people may get sent in to the program and the Managers don’t want the work. What Management wants is more entry level part time bag loaders. As it is the BDOs may be the wrong people who pull a few passengers just for the numbers. They do tend to catch couples going off for a romantic weekend with someone other than their spouse and college students with a drinking ID.
Well, at least I’m not the only one who thinks these new travel restrictions are stupid and useless.
Hot Air and Outside the Beltway
Many times while at the airport I would watch the TSA and wonder if in an emergency they would not be be part of the problem.
Whiskey @ 47
I have, by design, an inordinate amount of free time.
Here’s something.
If the goal of war is conservation of energy and you are nominally the weaker, what circumstances can you orchestrate that would result in a victory to your satisfaction.
Examples of this daily abound.
It speaks to your recurring theme but in the larger instance referred to in your post, at its end point, compaction and dispersion are factors.
The bigger question is, why do I feel I’ve just said, “Hold my beer and watch this.”
The smaller question is why is that if I
wish to speak, I must first have to agree to submit.
Much too much time.
Heyyoukids
Sara: Go buy a gun. It will be a comfort to you. Remember; when seconds count, the police are only minutes away.
Charles: “Do what you must but try to remain sane.” Yup. That may require sending one of these people to allah.
The concept driving the TSA is security theater. Designed to look like security. A determined assailant will do what needs to be done to achieve his mission. See those cops with automatic weapons standing around in the atrium of your local airport? Whadda dey gonna do with an automatic weapon in there? Theater.
The best idea Ive seen here is to issue clubs and batons to passengers. You’re only going to have at most a half dozen jihadis on a flight. First one stands up gets the snot beat out of him and some bacon rubbed on his wounds, the rest will be quiet.
I dont care what the “proper” way to refer to this is, its a religious war. Has been since mohammed crawled out of his cave. You can ask the then-thriving Christian communities in Asia Minor as the swords of allah began to descend on their necks. There may be only a “few” of the islams involved, but that few is too many. If the islams cant get control of their fringe there will be great suffering on their part. Thats a clear consequence of asymmetrical nuclear warfare.
I suggest that some scholar take that poem they call the koran apart and figure out the verses that are fraudulent and clean the damned thing up.
“Do not screw with an old man. He has neither time nor energy for games. He’ll just kill you.”
“Remember; when seconds count, the police are only minutes away.”
Good stuff!
Buy ammo to go with your gun.
If you don’t have a gun, buy both!
Perhaps, Wretchard, we’re much closer to your Third Conjecture than you realize or want to admit, and there I sympathize with you. We pretty much blew all of our chances to avoid an outright slaughter, and we did so for domestic political reasons. Our leaders are so focused on those issues that they will be completely blindsighted the next time an enemy hits us. But we can see those enemies, and we know who they are. Why are we waiting for them to hit us again when we have the means to crush them. I can only guess that we lack the will our grandfathers had, and that we’ll pay a price for that loss…
Herb:
I own two .22 rifles, both inherited, one with scope from my Grandfather, one from my Uncle. No ammo though. I’d much rather have a shotgun that has a big blast where my aiming ability would be less an issue. Unfortunately, my poverty level income doesn’t allow for such “luxury” purchases. I do keep one of my son’s old baseball bats close at hand. You realize, I hope, that should I beat someone to death, I’d probably be arrested for murder and get the death penalty?
High heels and keys were the top choice makeshift weapons recommended for women.
By morons. That’s a good way to tick off your opponent and get killed. The only statistically effective weapon is a firearm. Everything else is nearly suicidally ineffective. For all of that, I carry a knife when I’m in areas controlled by Criminals, like the government of Chicago. If I get it in first, I may die, but I’ll take the SOB with me to shine my boots in Hell.
If you are not willing to kill or maim horribly, whatever you feel is worse, don’t even think about self defense.
Otherwise, attack. Attack. Always attack.
By morons. That’s a good way to tick off your opponent and get killed. The only statistically effective weapon is a firearm.
Dennis:
Did you miss the part about this being a self-defense class in New York City? Law abiding citizens are forbidden guns in NYC.
I think the idea was to give yourself a second or two to run while screaming for help that in that city most likely would never come anyway.
The best defense is moving to a state that doesn’t prosecute persons for defending their life and property with a firearm, short of that, becoming a hermit/recluse works too. Sarah Palin’s Alaska looks pretty good to me as well. If only, it weren’t so friggin’ cold.
Wretchard @ 29
Winston again.
“When you have to kill a man, it costs you nothing to be polite.”
Heyyoukids
Sara @ 78:
Sara, research the Maginot line. In the new age of lightning panzer attacks which was just being born, the immovable Maginot line was useless. Just like Homeland Security. Useless. Sorry about your experiences that left you in bad places.
keelie aka philip @ 87:
Not so much el Al but Israeli internal security. And they make you run the gauntlet going out but invisible checks going in. So much so that they will not let you get on any inbound flight from any carrier w/o passing their security checks. Any airline that flies into tel Aviv does the dance.
And you have a pretty good chance of sharing your meal with an undercover air agent, too. Always more than one on a big flight.
Ragnar D,
Also your seat mate could be an arab in full dress with robes and head gear and you will chat affably with them safe in the knowledge that anyone on the plane is OK. Good security reduces prejudice and conflict.
Good security reduces prejudice and conflict.
This is as true for airplanes as it is for neighborhoods.