The CRU Hack
Related link at PJ Media: Hacker Releases Data Implicating CRU in Global Warming Fraud
The WSJ reports that the “Hadley Climate Research Unit in Britain was hacked yesterday, apparently by Russian black hats, and thousands of sensitive documents, including emails from climate scientists dating back a decade, were posted online.”
Some of the old emails from scientists made public apparently make references to things like “hid[ing] the decline,” referring to global temperature series and different ways to slice and dice climate data.
In all, it seems there are more than 3,000 files in the hacked folders, which have been reposted in various places on the Internet.
The big Copenhagen summit had lost a lot of its appeal in recent days, as world leaders kept dialing down expectations for the climate talks. Maybe this will spice things up.
James Delingpole at the Telegraph thinks it may be “the final nail in the coffin of ‘Anthropogenic Global Warming’” but adds “there are too many vested interests in AGW, with far too much to lose either in terms of reputation or money, for this to end without a bitter fight.” While the leaked documents and emails strongly suggest that Global Warmists have been taking the public for a ride, the news is as likely to be welcomed as a belated discovery that Karl Marx was actually a stockbroker. It is likely to be denied and the critics who use the leaked documents will be mercilessly attacked. So Delingpole is probably right in believing that there’s too much riding on Global Warming for its political support to die quickly. For example, Herman Van Rompuy, the new President of the European Union “talked of funding social welfare from new green taxes and went on to discuss ‘financing levies at European level’, which his spokesman said later was similar to Gordon Brown’s call for an international tax on financial transactions.” France plans to levy $29 on every ton of carbon dioxide emissions.
“The gravest challenge that we face is climate change… Every one of our compatriots must feel concerned,” Mr Sarkozy said in a televised speech aimed at winning over a sceptical public. …
Mr Sarkozy faces an uphill battle to convince voters to accept the plan. An opinion poll by Ifop for the magazine Paris Match, published this week, found that 65 per cent of people were hostile to the tax.
“The aim of ecological fiscal policy is not to fill state coffers but to incite French people and companies to change their behaviour,” Mr Sarkozy said, adding that households that keep energy consumption low could end up better off financially.
These multibillion dollar funding schemes are unlikely to end simply because an inconvenient truth has been discovered. The New York Times described the cast of characters waiting for endorsement at the forthcoming Copenhagen meeting on climate change. Jobs, careers, fame and fortune — parties and stretch limos, private jets and yachts — are all waiting on the speaking of a few words.
There are some new industries that do stand to gain more directly from Copenhagen, however. Carbon traders will also be at the meetings, and hungry for the expansion of their business. … “If you had to pick one industry that is most ‘leveraged’ to an agreement in Copenhagen, it would be this industry that develops, finances or buys credits from greenhouse gas reduction projects internationally, outside the U.S.” … “If there is an agreement in the near term with the U.S. as a partner, domestic projects and investments to reduce emissions could well be eligible for the international carbon market,” Mr. Rau said. “That would spawn a whole industry here.”
Even if the Global Warming industry were to die today, a lot of “Green” investment is already out there and unless the band keeps playing the music will stop. For that reason the bandmaster, however weary his arms will be prodded to keep waving the baton. He must protect the investment. “After 2012, when the Kyoto Protocol expires, Mr. Rau said, the value of the investments in developing countries will be uncertain, and if the uncertainty is prolonged, it can hurt investment.” Keep playing, bandmaster.
The BBC says the police are now busy hunting down the CRU hackers. The Center itself gravely informed the public that it could not vouch for the veracity of the leaked material posted online. “”Because of the volume of this information we cannot currently confirm that all of this material is genuine. This information has been obtained and published without our permission and we took immediate action to remove the server in question from operation.” There were tantalizing hints that the leak was inside job. “We are undertaking a thorough internal investigation and we have involved the police in this enquiry.”
The Guardian quotes Bob Ward, director of policy and communications at the Grantham Research Institute on Climate Change and the Environment at the London School of Economics as saying “It does look incriminating on the surface but there are lots of single sentences that, taken out of context, can appear incriminating. You can’t tell what they are talking about. Scientists say ‘trick’ not just to mean deception. They mean it as a clever way of doing something – a short cut can be a trick.”
A spokesman for Greenpeace said: “If you looked through any organisation’s emails from the last 10 years you’d find something that would raise a few eyebrows. Contrary to what the sceptics claim, the Royal Society, the US National Academy of Sciences, Nasa and the world’s leading atmospheric scientists are not the agents of a clandestine global movement against the truth. This stuff might drive some web traffic, but so does David Icke.”
Politics is in many ways the bloodless — and sometimes not so bloodless — equivalent of war. Clausewitz believed politics and war fed into each other. It was an ongoing process, not a single event. That meant that actors were free to act on the flow of conflict as it went along. The hacking incident at the CRU will not end the Global Warming War, but it was part of it. The drive to control and tax human behavior will probably continue unabated. But so will resistance to it.
James Delingpole is probably also right in asserting that however dismissive the Global Warmists may publicly be of the CRU hack, the smoke of doubt has entered the temple. Even the European public is beginning to suspect that AGW really means “All Your Gold Belong to We”. The Telegraph’s Delingpole says, “if you own any shares in alternative energy companies I should start dumping them NOW.” Well maybe not now, but you might want to start thinking about diversifying your Green portfolio. Nuclear power, anybody?
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There were tantalizing hints that the leak was inside job.
Probably.
Russian black hats aren’t likely to care about a lot of data that doesn’t contain valid credit card numbers, nor post it for public comment for free.
Anyone know if Hannah Giles and James O’Keefe have leet mad haxxor skilz?
The denials and “no comments” from the allegeded fakers quoted by the released emails are pretty telling, especially when the reaction of everyone else fits very well with the other facts of the case. My money is on this being the real deal.
I agree that there will be a lot of pressure to keep the AGW gravy train rollin’, but there’s also going to be more and more friction. We’re in a global recession that threatens to topple into a depression (or maybe already has), and the pie is shrinking. It’s going to be harder and harder to justify diverting money to the Warming Mongers when standards of living among those most likely to support environmentalism are falling. Especially if temperatures are falling too, and Phil Jones tinkering with a spreadsheet won’t melt the frost on anyone’s pumpikns.
” We feel that climate science is, in the current situation, too important to
be kept under wraps.
We hereby release a random selection of correspondence, code, and documents.”
I wouldn’t be too wedded to the ‘Russian Hackers’ line.
I’m beginning to think this was an inside/outside combo.
I’m suspecting a Russian FTP server was used to negate the possibility that the CRU’s political/bureaucratic allies in the UK and EU would ‘pounce’ on whatever server this data was on. No my friends, that data was put out of AGWers ‘quick’ reach. True, the original FTP site is silent, but not quickly enough.
The irony that one of the torrent sites up-loading that zip file is,’The Pirate Bay’, is too delicious for words.
BTW — the CRU has admitted that the data leak was real; all of the CRU’s passwords have been canceled. The counter-spin in the UK papers is already begun.
PS – - a bit of triva, all the emails have been assembled into a 2000 page pdf file by Steve McIntyre.
PPS – - who’s bringing the popcorn? I can’t wait for the data and codes to be published.
The leaked data can be downloaded through the following link:
http://storage.denninger.net/FOI2009.zip
I unloaded the data on a Linux system. If the zip file contained a virus, it would have not infected my computer but it could infect yours if your machine runs under MS-Windows. I gave the zip file contents a quick look and it appears to have originated from an atmosphere scientist who was a political activist. However one should be careful about taking this at face value because it could be a repeat of the Dan Rather / forged document thing.
“Mr. Rau said. ‘That would spawn a whole industry here.’
Should probably add some quotation marks:
“Mr. Rau said. “That would spawn a whole ‘industry’ here.” “Industry,” because carbon credits trading isn’t really an industry, any more than flipping mortgages was an industry. It’s the opposite of an industry.
It would be a good idea to put some quotation marks around the word “reform,” also, as in health care “reform.” also.
As usual, Mr. Orwell gave us plenty of warning: “But if thought corrupts language, language can also corrupt thought. . . . Political language —- and with variations this is true of all political parties, from Conservatives to Anarchists —- is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable, and to give an appearance of solidity to pure wind.”
A whole lot of people on both sides of the Atlantic have been feeling that they’re being taken for a ride by the political class and their allies, and not just on global warming. These revelations — if they manage to get big play despite the MSM running interference — will only add to the disillusionment and disgust so many citizens feel for their “betters.”
The CRU thing is beginning to take on the flavor of the tobacco industry scandals that purportedly uncovered efforts to increase and expand addiction among smokers.
As hopeful as I am that this is all true and valid this needs to be followed up on very aggressively and carefully. Most of the e-mail correspondence that is government-funded here in the US should be obtainable under FOIA and needs to be grabbed ASAP before it goes down the memory hole. Are there any members of the commentariat that know the legal procedures to prevent a agency on the recieving end from dumping their files? I forsee an Enron level of shredding in the near future.
Somebody should grab a portable De-Fib unit before they tell Gore about this.
Doesn’t the far left like whistleblowers and believe the ends justify the means? Oh the irony……
The simple law of entropy suggests that reality cannot be ignored forever. At this point I don’t think it really matters whether or not the climate is warming.
Politicians are looking for taxes on anything and everything that doesn’t kill the payers too quickly. Taxes are probably the only momentum left in the AGW scam, but as we can see from the health care fiasco the government’s desire to get its fingers around the throat of every money generating segment of society is not likely to die on its own.
They took the server off line.
The poor innocent little server sits in a corner not sure of its fate. It is not the only one that will get scrubbed.
The basic precept was given by Monsieur l’President
Who in hell elects anyone in a Democracy to change their behavior? Isn’t the whole idea of Democracy, of the Right to the Pursuit of Happiness, of the Rights of Man, that you employ a government so that you can safely and in private conduct your own behavior? Besides even if M. Sarkozy has only noble, if indeed aristocratically Noble and elitist, motives, we can see the slavering crowd behind him that have already budgeted for the use of these new taxes.
Now there are two groups at work. First are the sincere Goo-Goos.These are the people who really do believe that the world is threatened by electricity production, or flatulent cows, or trans fats, or … just please think of the children. Just because these people are ridiculous does not mean they are not dangerous. They are the ones who believe they are righteously entitled to take away everyone else’s freedom for a good cause. Second are the upfront crooks. Most Americans like an honest thief who will take your last dollar and light a cigar with it. We want to punish the crooks because they are stealing our money. We also just wish that there was some way to get them to work on our side.
One problem with the unchecked spread of con-men and sob sisters is that they corrupt institutions and put at risk our willingness to support idealists and voluntary associations that are essential for the success of a Toquevillian-Republic. Charitable foundations, research institutes and advocacy groups are important. Maybe they are founded by evil old monopolists and bigots, like Rockefeller and Ford or by people with a religious vision. Maybe their founders were wrong but they still must be allowed to explore new ideas and offer solutions. More often the original vision is worthy and the problem comes in later when Agents take over and pervert the course of the foundation. It is unlikely that Henry Ford would be pleased by how his legacy is now used. What will happen to the Gates Foundation when Bill and Melinda are no longer able to keep an eye on it?
I would like to believe the whole thing will come down like a ton of bricks. The cynic in me says it won’t make any difference- socialism has always been based on what is supposed to be true, not what actually is true. Even if quasi-hard science is involved (there is all kinds of fudge room here) most people are going to pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.
Still- no lie can last forever. Nobody thought the Soviet Union was going to collapse, even the people who believed most strongly in its corruption. It will at least be interesting to see how this plays out.
A recent issue of Popular Mechanics presents how Texas has climbed on the alternative energy bandwagon, with lots of wind turbines as well as work on solar cells and extracting energy from sewage by raising algae from which can be extracted hydrocarbon fuels.
I guess I took to much thermodynamics in college but has anyone seen an analysis that says we get a net positive energy out of these things? Or for that matter, how does the economics of a wind power turbine compare to a nuclear or coal fired plant in terms of watts/cent? While such developments as low cost computers, networking technology, and lightweight composite materials no doubt have made it easier to build wind turbines, I still suspect that if they were competitive to more conventional electric power generating methods that they would have been developed some time ago.
Back in the 70’s McDonnell Douglas built a solar-thermal generating plant in the California desert. The cost per KWH was considered to be classified information. One would doubt that was because it was found to be so incredibly low.
As for the Energy Independence aspects, that will not fly. We are in no real danger of running out of coal or the ability to produce nuclear power capabilities and wind turbines don’t substitute for oil used in cars. Wind turbines have to fly or crash based on either economics or AGW. Or politics.
To the more knowledgeable among us, please keep the rest of us updated with further confirmation or contests as to veracity of these docs
Albert Arnold Gore just released an immediately urgent statement about how “RIGHT NOW” is “THE BEST TIME EVER” to buy carbon credits.
Unfortunately the followers of the AGW cult are brainwashed well beyond the point where this hack/data release could alter their faith. That and or they have way too much time, energy and money invested.
Wind is pretty cheap, when it blows, and if your equipment is reliable, but it’s hard to grid, and a ton of efficiency is lost between a wind turbine and a Prius running on batteries.
And I am very skeptical that those big, skinny airfoils are really optimal for the purpose.
If supercapacitor technology can keep developing, to replace tiny batteries and let electric cars recharge in seconds and store megajoules of peaky wind energy as well, maybe this will all work out.
Orbital solar is the long-term solution unless fusion finally starts to work, and maybe even then.
RWE 12,
The comparison that we use is that wind power costs the equivalent of $10-15/MMBtu on a Natural Gas basis, compared to current market NG prices of under $5. But as they say on the Ronco TV ads, there’s more.
Wind power has the other following detriments that a fossil fuel generator doesn’t. 1) Wind blows when it wants to, which is more often at night than during the peak periods of 7AM-11PM weekdays when electricity is more valuable. Electricity demand varies across the day due to heating/cooling/lighting needs, so wind power at night is frankly pretty useless. It generally just means backing down a low cost coal plant. 2) Wind power in Texas typically only runs about 30% of the time (utlitization is worse in other places), so it has to be totally backed up by other generation for when the wind doesn’t blow; that’s pretty inefficient from a capital investment perspective.
And as bad as wind economics are, they are much better than any solar photovoltaic economics. (I just think that it is hilarious that Germany is banking on solar power given its cost and lack of sunlight; I would have given the Germans more credit than that). However, using solar heating for water heating makes sense in remote areas. That’s beer money though in the whole scheme of energy though.
For what its worth, Sec of Energy Steeple policy would be to continue to run coal (provides 50% of US power), use Federal incentives to do a massive buildout of nuclear power (make the Upper Midwest the global capital of nuclear power?) and balance with natural gas. Then, create incentives to get natural gas into the automotive mainstream as a fuel backing out gasoline supply via crude oil refining.
the new President of the European Union “talked of funding social welfare from new green taxes and went on to discuss ‘financing levies at European level’, … similar to Gordon Brown’s call for an international tax on financial transactions.” France plans to levy $29 on every ton of carbon dioxide emissions.
In addition to the Green and Brown tax proposals, several countries are proposing Yellow taxes for solar enjoyment, Purple taxes for panoramic views, and Aquamarine taxes for anyone living within 100 km. of water. The rest of the article went on to say the EU is looking into charging fees for paying taxes and levying surcharges on those fees and the taxes. Resources are limited, as we are all now finding out.
When you are brokering in fear and blame to “control behavior”, it really doesn’t matter whether the temperature goes up or down. Heat is applied in either direction.
It is the “controlling of behavior” that is the end game. It matters not one whit what the subject matter might be that is utilized.
AGW is simply a means to an end. If leftists can convince sheep to follow the latest “look what you’ve done to the world” blamefest…and get them “guilt-tripped” into doing penance for their “sins”…they can lead people (mostly Western mankind, they are the most susceptible…and most gullible)into doing all manner of self-loathing acts of contrition.
Since leftists all over the globe have no soul, they really don’t care what the facts are…if they are “inconvenient truths”, well then…off with their heads, (as well as those heads of anyone who dares to speak them.)
It is not in the least bit surprising, if accurate, that some Machiavellian leftist prig decided to dummy up, cover up, prostitute and bastardize a few facts that dealt severe blows to the junk science du jour.
If global warming dies, it will be replaced by some other fear-mongering, blamefesting, steamy pile of leftist detritus. When you broker in leftist fear and blame, your vig is taken in the up and the down, and you get propaganda coverage from the diseased information stream every time to boot.
Don’t forget the ‘portable nuclear power plants’ (google).
Folks keep asking about the ‘next big thing’ – these mini’s are it.
A couple of thoughts:
1) There are those who still insist that the Bush ANG forgeries were genuine — this former typographer knows otherwise. Mary Mapes insists to this day that they are genuine.
2) Does anyone remember Daniel Ellsberg and the Pentagon Papers? He broke the law and was a hero to the same crowd that supports AGW.
#15 – - Josh
Your skeptical stance is justified.
The largest wind farm in the EU [Denmark] only gets 18% of it’s potential output on it’s ‘best day’.
Small, individual units [linked to battery storage] can work, for homes isolated from the grid, but massive wind farms taking the place of traditional generation units is a total ‘green’ fantasy.
Power grids need a ‘stable’ source of juice to keep from crashing; wind power is anything but stable.
Not unlike many green dreams.
#20 Don R.
Yes, irony abounds, doesn’t it?
Further read on this.
http://motls.blogspot.com/2009/11/hacked-hadley-cru-foi2009-files.html#more
And for anyone who has ever naively asked “why would honorable scientists engage in fraud on AGW?” The answer from the above blog:
So far, the most interesting file I found in the “documents” directory is which shows that since 1990, Phil Jones has collected staggering 13.7 million British pounds ($22.6 million) in grants.
Tarring and feathering is too good for these people.
Still don’t see it on Drudge.
Seems like Wretchard is the leader of the pajamas brigade at this side of the ocean.
http://thepiratebay.org/search/Hadley%20CRU/0/99/0
Will be seeding for a long time.
Re. my earlier point about the role of government in a Democracy and no one votes their own pain, If the idea is good why do you need gov’t to change other people?
Geeze Louise,
portable nuclear power plants
Concur about that. This would be a great time to buy surplus merchant ships cheap. Get them retrofitted with a safe sealed mini-nuke plant and run them with a small crew. Anybody have an extra $50 million so we can get started?
Lawrence,
If you try to follow the West End Paisley Tax to closely you’ll get a headache or a hangover. The good news is that India is fighting an effort to impose the Bleeding Madras Tax that could kill the IT industry. The truly good news would be that these European taxes just might save Wall Street as the hub of the Financial industry. The evil alternative theory would be that the strings are being pulled by China to cripple the industry in Europe so that they can move it to Shanghai.
steeple,
Isn’t the plan to use off peak demand wind power to pump water uphill in reservoirs that would be emptied through turbines during high demand hours? In effect making the system a large battery?
Another problem with wind systems is that the tall turbine poles are themselves environmentally destructive. They destroy migrating birds like giant zappers get mosquitos.
Were it just the grant money that was lost in what appears to be deliberate falsification of results, I would be merely irked. Hey, even Robert Milliken dry-labbed the electron-volt measurement, right?
What is worse is the sums lost in grant money to charlatans is dwarfed by the enormous costs the rest of society is expected to pay to solve a problem they have to fudge to show exists in the first place. Much like ‘The PAC Men’ post, the size of the bribe is insignificant compared to the largesse a politician can dole out — or cause his countrymen to pay in pursuit of a goal that has to be massaged into existence and sprinkled with Peer Review dust to exist.
It’s low on Drudge. Bottom right corner. He needs to headline it.
Ironically, the link is right below a link to a Spiegel story with the headline: “Climatologists Baffled by Global Warming Timeout.”
Baffled. Har!
Now let’s see how long until it shows up at Time, Newsweek, NYT….
re: Don Rodrigo: The Ellsworth case (Pentagon Papers) set a very important legal precedent that applies to the current case, at least as far as US law goes.
The Pentagon sued the newspapers that printed what Ellsworth openly admitted that he stole, on the grounds that they had obtained it illegally. The Supreme Court ruled that even if information was obtained illegally, Newspapers and other news outlets still had the right to publish the info under the first amendment, so long as they were not directly involved in the original theft.
That principle stands as US constitutional law today.
Earlier several contributors mentioned how fatigued W looked. Folks I just hit the TIP JAR and challenge others to do the same.
Spend what you can, I know times are tough but his blogsite, insight , and steady hand on the tiller are worth whatever you can offer. I do this for no personal recognition ,just personal appreciation.
This is not a joke. Let’s show the man some money.
Habu, great reminder to us all.
LOTM, not too many big hills in West Texas. Even then, one loses energy whenever one handles it. So the more iterations of this, the less efficiency as Josh points out above.
And believe it or not, the tips of these wind turbines can move at 70mph. Death for inattentive birds.
21. CPT. Charles:
but massive wind farms taking the place of traditional generation units is a total ‘green’ fantasy
Plus a bird slaughter on a scale not seen since the 19th century demise of the carrier pidgeon. A slaughter fixable by only spending additional large sums to retrofit the turbines with sophisticated mechanisms for “bird-avoidance” or something.
The Mao-era Chinese government tried to save Chinese crops from natural depredation by having the peasants slaughter starlings and other birds. The outcome of this slaughter was a huge infestation of insects that the now-dead birds used to eat in additon to the grain. Flailing away at grasshoppers proved way more difficult than doing the same with birds. Green fanatics would have us eventually metaphorically flailing at grasshoppers with their ill-thought, ill-advised schemes.
Steeple #16: None of that surprises me. Add to all that you mentioned the fact that the distribution problem applies not just to the users but to the generators as well. And imagine what a hurricane or tornado outbreak could do to both the generating source and its ability to get the power to the users. First you fix the generators. Then you fix the network coming from them. Then you fix the network going to the users. That is two more steps than it takes now. And I have been through being without power for days on end after a storm more than once. In South Carolina in early October it is no fun. In Florida in early September it is unbearable.
Photovoltaic power delivered at the source and used to augment conventional grid power may be useful in some remote locations and where individuals want to make the sizeable investment required. I think a solar power augmenter for home air conditioning system may make a lot of sense, because it would be most capable on the hot sunny days where it is needed the most.
As you allude, I think it all means that you still have to build just as much coal-fired or nuclear generating capacity anyway and then just not turn it up as high when you are lucky enough to have wind power available or enough home solar systems to make an impact. So it is no cheaper to build your power system.
LifeofMind #25: Yours and Lawrence’s comments lead me to recall that the Mayor of LA said he was going to use the Tobacco Lawsuit windfall to pay the costs associated with the Rampart Division Scandal, in which the police were found to have been faking evidence. A clear linkage there. If you smoke you pay the costs of corrupt police, sure…. No reason to use it for children’s health care costs as they promised.
29 – Habu – thanks for the reminder. On it.
The economics of wind-powered electricity are deliberately obscure, particularly the subsidies. One illumination is in the differing treatment of depreciation under the US tax code:
http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/10/how_taxes_pervert_our_energy_c.html
The US capital for nuclear energy is looking like North Carolina, in particular Charlotte and Wilmington. No way will Michigan attract new jobs for nuclear unless they invest in their own new nuke.
LifeofMind,
The economics of electrical storage favor coal and nuclear – not solar and wind!
http://www.energypulse.net/centers/article/article_display.cfm?a_id=1808
BTW, it was the University of East Anglia Climate Research Unit that was “hacked”, not the Hadley Centre for Climate Prediction and Research.
The confusion is understandable – they’re both in the UK and are centers (or is it centres?) of the AGW religion.
Just a GIANT,IMPORTANT, REMINDER to those who have some confusion going on about our government.
We live in a REPUBLIC, NOT A DEMOCRACY. The differences are substantial and consequential, were argued at the C. Convention extensively and have been debated throughout history.
“To the Republic for which it stands….”
The silver lining — IF, and this is a very big IF, this (probable whistleblower) release of information shows that the integrity of science has been compromised by the search for government grants; and further IF this is publicly recognized, it may start a roll-back of the recent politicization of science.
Since humanity’s only realistic hope of dealing with the eventual exhaustion of fossil fuels is through more real science & more real technology (not a reversion to moonshine & windmills), this would be a Good Thing.
I have always been of the view that carbon based AGW is not proved. It could be true, but the evidence hasn’t been put forward. It would be ironical if it were actually true. But who would believe it now? What these “climate scientists” should have done is conducted the inquiries transparently, with open source code for their models and openly available data for their factbase.
Then everyone could have followed along where ever it led. But somewhere someone got greedy. The prospect of being the Master of the Universe danced like sugarplums in their heads. The Ring grew and took possession of their minds and ate them out. Finally, climate science became a climate carnival. And now the geek just ate the chicken.
I have a much better use for wind power – desalinization.
Using it to pump water uphill loses 20% or more – not sure what the figures are. Desalinization can be done sporadically, do a ton of it when the wind blows – much easier to mix two sources of flowing water, desal and natural, than it is to pump water.
Can continue the desal with grid power when the wind is slow, so the capital investment of the desal plant is not idle, but at a lower level. Plenty of time for maintenance, too.
wretchard said: But somewhere someone got greedy.
I suppose. Why would that be shocking? But there’s another thing, there’s a magnetic attraction for scientific ideas to be appropriated by perhaps even well-meaning but not really comprehending types – who then push it beyond the evidence, not even realizing that’s what they are doing. It’s called scientism, and it’s one of the plagues of modernity, it seems to moi.
I’m just as happy to have my beliefs confirmed as anyone here, but in this giant ocean of schadenfreude I wonder… what beliefs do I hold dear that will be revealed as completely unfounded?
By the way, on the subject of Compressed Natural Gas as an auto fuel (recommended by wind power advocate T. Boone Pickins as the flip side of his wind power ideas), let me give y’all some info I found as a result of a recent study I did for NASA.
Using the best commercially available technology a CNG tank for an automobile that holds the equivalent of 10 gallons of gasoline by compressing natural gas to 3600 PSI weighs 100 pounds EMPTY. Full of fuel it weighs about 150 pounds. And that is for 10 gallons of gasoline, which is not very much fuel and which would weigh about 60 pounds. Imagine what the tanks for an 18 wheeler would weigh.
Such tanks are not cheap and do not last forever. They are actually quite safe, safer than gasoline tanks in accidents according to my study. But filling up a tank to 3600 psi can be very hazardous if the tank has been damaged. If it decides to cut loose it will do so during filling or shortly thereafter. The tanks will have to be installed and periodically reinspected by trained professionals. Some few of them have been known to explode for no obvious reason. There is typically no fire, the hazard coming from flying debris.
CNG is attractive as a fuel on a cost basis, being as low as $1.00/Gal compared to the same amount of gasoline in some areas. In such places, like Oklahoma, they have been using it in autos and trucks for decades.
As for hydrogen as an auto fuel, take the weight info I gave above and multiply by 5, and it is stored at 5000 psi.
#37 Kinuachdrach – This is the problem of big government. Government should not be funding research that they themselves are not doing. (Even then, it is dubious.) It is an open invitation to corruption. The more layers of institutions between the funding and the research, the more corruption. Politicians are not scientists. Thus, it can never end well.
Yeah, RWE, it’s always struck me that the best alternative energy distribution for cars was electricity. If the battery technology ever arrives that will be the way to go. The nice thing about electricity is that there are many ways to produce it, so we won’t be making a bad bet on infrastructure. We’d still have to build lots of power plants, but we’ll need those anyway, and a big plant burns less fuel for a given amount of power than an auto engine does.
Wretchard,
Re your #38: I completely agree. As an engineer, I am aghast at the idea of spending so much money and doing so much damage attempting to solve a problem that is not conclusively proven to exist. There are too many other truly pressing needs to waste our resources on this boondoggle.
I believe this is almost certainly the biggest scam in the history of the world. Michael Crichton (RIP) was dead right about this issue in his book, “State of Fear.”
#37. Kinuachdrach
The silver lining will be tarnished beyond repair unless some of the illustrious “scientists” who got grant money will be penalized or sent to jail. Otherwise its just going to be business as usual–try not to get caught–but if you do its just embarrassing, not fatal.
I don’t know the exact legalities of it, but when you take government money to do research and you don’t do the research, just fabricate it, isn’t that fraud?
I am not a fan of making ever more laws except when it comes to putting sanctions on “public servants” who abuse their authority or on parasites who live off the government teat. In regards to those such laws the more and the stricter the better.
Insofar as such people are concerned I would send them to jail for a goodly number of years and rescind the non-profit status of any institution that hired them after they got out.
But then again, I’m just a mean SOB.
John Lynch #44:
I think that a plug-in hybrid using advanced battery technology with a CNG-powered engine for extended range missions would be an excellent idea. The necessity of a smaller capacity fuel tank would be offset by the greater range from the hybrid setup – 500 miles on one CNG fillup sounds just fine. You could even have a home fueling system if your house had natural gas service – they even sell them now. WalMart and other stores could install electrical recharging receptacles in the parking lots as a free service while you shop.
Of course, before I would take such a car on other than a local trip there would have to be some major changes in infrastructure – not hard ones to do, but substantial in terms of the area involved.
And all of this would be done for economic reasons, not because of the AGW religion.
The American Museum of Natural History in NY has started it’s own PhD program in Bio-Diversity at the Richard Gilder Graduate School. Going over their web site I surfed over to the curriculum and noticed that in the 4 year program every student will take a 3 credit course during their first year on grant writing and proposals. From the catalog,
Now I have no doubt that this is a terrific school and the training will be top notch and these are serious and ethical people who care about getting things right. However about a year ago I saw an assemblage of eminent worthies on Charlie Rose to assure everyone the debate was over and a or the top person from the AMNH was among them.
Second while this is a very real part of every research scientists life it is sad that they have to devote a considerable chunk of their professional training to a course on how to get the money. Why isn’t there a system within the academic culture for training senior faculty on the duties of how to take suction on donors and the Mentoring process, and training the juniors on how to write and the ethics involved, that would have covered these topics in a different setting? If there was it seems to have deteriorated. It is good that the last two topics in the syllabus are being addressed. What worries is that the first topic is conflated with them and will overwhelm the curriculum. In the military there is a separate officer field, the Medical Service Corps, that does the administration and paperwork for the Physicians. That is harder to do in academia where peer review is everything in ascertaining the merit of work done or proposed.
To be blogged under the title “Gilder Grantsmanship.”
I don’t know what CNG tanks for trucks might weigh, but there are a lot of buses running around Los Angeles with big signs, “powered by CNG”.
Of course, they can pretty conveneniently refuel at the end of each run, typically well under 50 miles.
Lifeofthemind #48:
While at the Pentagon I got to observe the sorry state of affairs in terms of science influenced by politics. Now, in addition to what researchers have to do to get approval, add in the machinations of a Sen Stevens, Rep Murtha or Sen Byrd. Yeah, it gets that bad.
A good friend of mine literally wrote the book for NASA on the research funding approval process, documenting what they had figured out over the years but had not written down. He concluded that the process itself made good science all but impossible.
And don’t forget that in order to fund bad science they have to take money away from good science. That’s the way it works.
Josh #49:
Yes, CNG powered busses for local routes are a common use and usually very successful application. They don’t have to go beyond their assigned route, have their own refueling stations operated by professionals, and have plenty of room for tanks – usually on top of the bus. Other users include companies with service truck fleets, power companies and even some police departments – users who can predict their use because of standard routes and limited geographic coverage areas.
Just a very minor correction; transit bus routes daily averages are around 300+ miles per bus. That’s for traditional city transit lines using 40′ buses or articulateds; not community bus routes, that typically use mini buses.
LOTM@25: Anybody have an extra $50 million so we can get started?
You have to ask nicely.
Seriously, one might consider having a little chat with some of these portfolio managers touting the undervalued utilities sector as a strategic long-term investment. Depends on your definition of long-term. Some of the big utilities will probably remain as retooled ghosts of their former selves but many will be long gone. Under normal circumstances I would predict a rapid change-over. With state and local utilities, I’m expecting resistance – especially for the first wave. Rhetoric notwithstanding, the entrepreneurial spirit is not a strong economic driver, particularly since 2008 when we all learned the painful lesson that our western ‘financialist model’ is bank-centric – without a viable banking system to collect and allocate capital, we all go down. I have a small amount of sympathy for Geithner because there is little else one man can do other than prop up the system as we know it, which means supporting the, ahem, banks. Bigger picture is that the model needs to be changed – or possibly merely adjusted. One person can’t do it – certainly not in the middle of a crisis.
And with that neck-wrenching segue, GL is out of here.
Sure, six 50 mile runs per day.
I don’t know if they have to refuel that often or not, but they could!
This is an interesting case.
I had hear that some “climate change scientists” would not release thier data sets (although they have been repeatedly asked).
This is unusual. Science is about public replication.
I do not know if this is the same lab.
Now the complete data sets are available.
If they are false the labs will have to release the real data.
If the hacked ones are the real ones and the data show that the theory is not supported……….. game over?
NO – too much money and power involved.
Look what happend in the 1950′s when the flying saucer cultists predictions did not come true:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/When_Prophecy_Fails
We’ve always known about politicians, but now rigorous grant-method scientists have left the labs for the street.
A tentative hurray for the alleged whistleblower/s. May they have acted in the name of rational, verifiable and honest science.
Hitler’s Germany was able to convert its coal into fuel for its panzers, using the Fisher-Tropsch process to provide up to half of their transportation fuel needs during World War II. Why can’t we do the same for our trucks and cars? The USGS estimates that Alaska (you know that place Sarah Palin just won’t shut up about) has untapped hypothetical coal resources estimated to be as much as 5 TRILLION metric tons! The Alaska coal resource estimate surpasses the total coal resources of the lower 48 by 40 percent.
http://pubs.usgs.gov/dds/dds-077/dds77text.html
Light coal mostly, but nevertheless potential feeder stock for a fuel conversion program. Lots of jobs for everyone involved: miners, truckers, railroad workers, engineers, etc. The old process uses about 1,000 MW of power to produce 80,000 gallons of diesel fuel. A new developed process reduces that to 350 MW of power. The ‘energy economics’ of the process works. A gallon of diesel = 137 Mega Joules (MJ) A megawatt of power = 956 MJ. Under the old method it takes 956,000 MJ of electricity to make 1,096,000 MJ of fuel. So basically a break even proposition in terms of the energy put in to make the fuel. If the new process proves itself then coal to fuel conversion is even better and makes total sense. So why wouldn’t the US of A embark on such a program? Oh, that’s right! The evil CO2 factor. Can’t use carbon based fuels because of AGW. At least that’s what the Hadley Climate Research Unit wants us to believe.
#25 LoTM
I offer for your consideration MH-1A Sturgis.
Subotai Bahadur
RWE@42: CNG is attractive as a fuel on a cost basis, being as low as $1.00/Gal compared to the same amount of gasoline in some areas.
A prototype coal to liquid plant – yes, yes, Fischer-Tropsch and variations thereof – is being built by a company called Rentech. CEO claims $2.00/gal. I can’t understand why this country doesn’t pursue this – lily-livered chickensh^ts. Talk about an ideal replacement for eviscerated manufacturing base. Ever hear of killing two birds with one stone?
“Russian hackers” reminds me that Earth Day was founded on the 100th anniversary of Lenin’s birthday and that Gorbachev founded “The Green Cross” (still a going concern) when he started up at the Presidio, or thereabouts.
Interesting that if it were in fact Russian hackers who did this, perhaps it’s because the relevant decisionmakers decided to pull the plug on this particular “line.” What better way to further demoralize and confuse the already-gullible, yearning and the hacks who made their bread on it?
Who knows. All I know is I hope these docs are legit – especially if it means I won’t have to hear about AGW every damn morning and night on NPR during my commute.
5. Mark:
“Mr. Rau said. ‘That would spawn a whole industry here.’
Should probably add some quotation marks:
“Mr. Rau said. “That would spawn a whole ‘industry’ here.” “Industry,” because carbon credits trading isn’t really an industry, any more than flipping mortgages was an industry. It’s the opposite of an industry.
someday the scientific community will have to live with the shame that they spawned and were complicit in the equivalent of when the catholic church was selling indulgences to sinners so they may continue to sin.
Whitehall #34 said:
“The economics of wind-powered electricity are deliberately obscure, particularly the subsidies.”
During a casual lunchtime conversation, I was told that the energy required to extrude the aluminum used for the blades in a large wind turbine was greater than the turbine’s lifetime energy production. I have since read at a wind turbine manufacturer’s website that their wind turbines can recover the energy used for their manufacture in a few months. I suspect the aluminum story might have included the energy required to refine the aluminum from bauxite (very energy intensive) and not simply the energy required to melt the aluminum. I do know that until a few years ago, the energy required to manufacture a photovoltaic panel was greater than its lifetime energy output. However more recent vintage photovoltaic panels can actually produce more energy than what goes into their manufacture.
Geeze Louise #58 said:
“A prototype coal to liquid plant – yes, yes, Fischer-Tropsch and variations thereof – is being built by a company called Rentech. CEO claims $2.00/gal.”
Nuclear power and Fischer-Tropsch based upon coal are the practical short term solutions for the energy crisis. Continued use of petroleum and all the “green” nonsense simply delay us from achieving the practical short term solution. Unfortunately, the long term solution is much more complicated. I’m sceptical that the nuclear fusion problem can be cracked. Perhaps some sort of breeder reactor based upon thermal neutrons along with complete nuclear fuel recycling is the long term solution along with a fuel cell based transportation system (the battery problem maybe intractable for automobiles).
Tarnsman and Geeze Louise,
Conversion energy technologies like coal gasification have no natural political base in America from either side.
1) The Democrats have bought into the carbon emissions AGW story. Even if they do not understand it the simpler meme for them is Energy Companies Bad, Bush Cheney blood for oil, is impure US must not touch. No drill no dig no burn no industry. That they can wrap themselves around. But they want jobs for the working man, and working girl too when on a junket.
2) Republicans are caught up by one legacy from Reagan. He did manage to shut down the US Synthetic Fuels Corp. that was set up in 1980 under Jimmy Carter in response to the Arab oil embargo during the 1973 Mideast War. While much good work was done and the plant built still functions it was a typical wasteful government agency that laid itself open to the charge of boondoggle. Any government managed industrial enterprise probably will. The great exceptions, like the Manhattan Project, deserve study to determine what went right.
On balance I feel that if we had the right legal, tax and fiscal structures then private capital would flow to such projects, if they were worthy of development, without direct government administration.
To be blogged under the title “Unnatural Gas?”
Subatoi Bahadur,
Exactly, this is do-able.
dan,
Turn the dial or better yet download podcasts and listen to something worth your time.
Eggplant,
I am eager to see Fuel-Cell systems developed for silent submarine propulsion.
Taiwan, Japan, Israel and the EU would all want in on that. The Navy nuke lobby has hurt security, blocking all alternative systems to their specialty.
58. Geeze Louise
Back in the dawn of time, when Jimmy Carter ruled the land, Exxon wanted to build a coal to gasoline plant in Texas. Why didn’t they? They asked the Feds what kind of environmental guidelines the plant should have. They didn’t want to do anything that would get them fined or keep them from doing business. The Feds never responded, and so the plant was never built.
Nothing has changed.
The greatest impediment to economic growth in the US are the “regulators.” They are the Python. The people who produce goods and services that the populace actually want are the prey.
The best thing that could ever be done for the American economy would be to invalidate the entire Code of Federal Regulations and to fire each and every bureaucrat who writes or enforces them.
Thanks for the link in your No. 4, EggPlant.
Seems like a good thing to get the data into the “cloud” as soon as possible, lest the cleaning bots are unusually alert.
The big noise about coming GLOBAL FREEZE was among the several reflexive chants going on when I was in college. (My head I hang in shame at the memory of doing a crummy film for a forestry ecology class in which I “dramatized” some of the absurd ideas in Paul Ehrlich’s Population Bomb.)
After seeing the behavior of Albert Gore, Jr, as Veep to President I-Can’t-control-my-Willie (No controlling authority… Invented Internet… What shares in Occidental? What Chinese contributors? Elk Hills Wha…?)
I wouldn’t trust anyone connected with the AGW flock to look out the window and tell honestly whether it’s raining or sunny.
LOTM@62 & TC@63:
Rentech is claiming their manufacturing process leaves a near-zero carbon footprint – whether you believe in carbon-based AGW or not.
FWIW, the Chinese – the ones who are shaking their fingers in our faces for financial mismanagement – have invested a billion or two in a CTL plant. So the failure under Carter/Reagan is really – to my mind – ancient history. The Time Was Not Right.
And I would strongly suggest that the lack of a political base is a short term position that is about to change dramatically – with or without Palin. The Democrats will do it to themselves – without any coaching. But, my view, as well as others, is that the next ten years are going to be rough. What emerges from that “lost decade” will be a political base that is quite different from the status quo.
Which means we should get crackin’ – molecules or carbon – whatever.
#56
But all we have to do is build a nuke plant right next to every coal fired power plant, then tear down the coal plant and build a synfuels plant in its place. The coal trains would run to the same place, the nuke plant could reuse much of the cooling system of the old coal plant. A natural gas line would be laid to the synfuels plant with a product line routed away to tie into existing crude oil or refined products pipelines. It reduces CO2 emissions (if that’s important), reduces reliance on imported oil, and can be accomplished with existing technology. THAT would be an economic stimulus plan.
PS to the above post, the thing about the Chinese approach is that it is a multiple front attack on energy. What is the downside to investing millions in energy technologies that may have limited lifespans, but will produce a viable and useful output, when the western financial model just sacrificed trillions in 2008?
I’d take odds on CTL – whatever they may be. Unlike financial services, at least you’d have something to burn besides your portfolio.
What gets me is that Trillions of dollars of uninvested capital are sitting on the sidelines waiting to invest – allegedly the reason why the market corrections have fizzled into nothing. There is a huge reservoir of investment money looking for returns.
On the Next Big Thing.
I don’t get it- if the Russians really wanted to mess up America, they’d release information that proves man-made global warming, and activate their sleeper agents in the US like Al Gore and Barack Obama. The best way to destroy America’s economy and way of life is to convince us that global warming is real, so why would they do anything to make us question this giant hoax?
Does this mean Al Gore has to give back the Nobel Prize he won?
He can keep the Emmy and the Grammy…. right?
Greenpeace doesn’t believe it.
I keep hearing that Greenpeace is a communist organization.
Wonder if that’s true.
Lifeofthemind said:
“I am eager to see Fuel-Cell systems developed for silent submarine propulsion.”
The German Type 212 submarines already do that. I suspect in a hypothetical submarine duel between a Type 212 versus an American Los Angeles class sub, the Type 212 would probably win because it would be quieter. The Los Angeles class sub could stay under water longer than a Type 212 and travel much faster. However a nuclear reactor requires continuous cooling and that makes a fair amount of noise.
The most profound bit of data that is thrown out (ignored) is the LONG TERM thermometer records of Europe:
http://i45.tinypic.com/iwq8a1.jpg
Submitted for your perusal:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_East_Anglia
A new school, as universities go –founded in 1963. One wonders how such a huge secret was kept –no whistleblowers on the inside? In all this time?
Asking yourself this question, catch the new weekly Nyquist out today (and once again coincidentally synchronized):
http://www.financialsense.com/stormwatch/geo/pastanalysis/2009/1120.html
Cue the oil exporting, geopolitically aggressive nation state, or the state within that state:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125867400068856569.html?mod=googlenews_wsj
then there’s the inexplicable contradiction in the anti carbons also being anti nuclear power. What’s missing when there’s a contradiction?
A foreign nationalist force with a long-term goal of weakening target nations thru energy strangulation via energizing local green movements to propagandize and wage lawfare against energy development in the target nations?
Some even note that Chernobyl happened to blow up at a time of strong prevailing westerly/northwesterly prevailing winds –which in salting radiation across northern Germany set off Europe’s most aggressive green party, which other western greens organizations then modeled upon.
The Green Freedom concept has me pretty excited. Use energy from nuclear power to pull CO2 from the air and up-convert to gasoline. It’s carbon-neutral, and gasoline is hard to beat for energy density and safety, and we already have the cars and distribution system in place. The authors think it becomes viable when gas hits $5. This sets the long term worst case for gas costs, and it’s sustainable.
Build more nukes now!
#63 TCobb
Regulations are often used to kill energy projects.
For example, a new nuclear power, using a certified reactor design, built on an existing nuclear power plant site, still takes 4 years to be granted a license to START construction.
Why, why, why do we tolerate this waste?
The data is all tainted by the urban heat island effect. They include the urban data which does show warming and try to say that it is occurring everywhere. If you only look at rural sites, there is no warming. Here is a comparison of matched (within 100 km of each other) urban and rural sites all with over 110 years of data. Go to youtube and look up Global Warming Urban Heat Effect.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcsvaCPYgcI
so simple a 6th grader can understand it.
http://www.investigatemagazine.com/australia/latestissue.pdf
Interview with Phil Jones, seeming to confirm some of the most damning emails.
“Hide the decline!”
via Instapundit
CRU bunch said:
Translation: We are erasing it as fast as we can! Pay no attention to the little man behind the curtain. These are not the climate scientists you are looking for.
Eggplant,
Eggzactly. So why aren’t we in the fuel-cell powered submarine business? Specialization unions make a difference. The aviators and the missile shooters combined and got all the guns over 5″, and most of the smaller guns, removed from the fleet. In fact we had Terrier missile shooters that we called cruisers that had no guns on them at all for anti surface ship or shore bombardment use. We are building amphibious assault ships that have only a couple of 40 mm guns for the suicide dinghy threat but nothing for the Marines. The reason is that aviators don’t want the competition. Similarly the nuclear propulsion community has made sure the US builds no non-nuclear powered submarines.
If Israel had four Type 212 mods, each with 4 to 6 Polaris type MRBMs, so one could always be on station wherever, and another four as hunter-killers, so one could always be off Hormuz, it would not eliminate the threat from Iran but it would change it.
To be blogged as “Silent Power.”
68. A Conservative Teacher:
Think about this; Russia is currently on economic life-support that is almost entirely funded by petrochemicals. If the West were to make any significant reduction in oil use prices would fall like a stone and Russia would fall as well. Our Russian “friends” have no desire to see the West move away from fossil fuels, they love this.
All the same I have never bought the whole AGW thing, too many variables with too low a certainty on each one add up to a pretty poor hypothesis much less a dependable model.
The Leftist blogs are all over this! No, just kidding, they’re obsessing about Palin…
I did see this article on HuffPo, but that was about it.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/20/climate-depot-everything_n_365754.html
The gist of the article is that “More interesting is what is not contained in the emails. There is no evidence of any worldwide conspiracy, no mention of George Soros nefariously funding climate research, no grand plan to ‘get rid of the MWP’, no admission that global warming is a hoax, no evidence of the falsifying of data, and no ‘marching orders’ from our socialist/communist/vegetarian overlords.” Keep spinning, kids.
gjg/77; –think about this, tho –that critique detailing the ‘urban heat sink effect’ and combined with text and photos exposing that killing flaw in the IPCC Report, thoroughly debunked the report very soon after the release –and incredibly did absolutely zip to slow the AGW machine.
I don’t think IPCC even bothered responding, tho a smoking gun had just killed it completely dead.
But –even tho the silence was a monstrous ‘tell’ re the IPCC being all politics and but ‘pretend’ science, the report never skipped a beat and continues on today, a rampaging zombie. How is this possible?
#62 & #80 LoTM
The last two DOLPHIN-class SSK’s that Israel got, modified to carry tube launched cruise missiles, are reported to have the same Air Independent propulsion system as the 212. I rather suspect that more than a little bit of reverse engineering is taking place, if they want to upgrade the earlier ones.
The EU, of course, has access to the technology through Germany.
Taiwan and Japan could definitely use the technology. They don’t have ballistic missiles that could be easily modified to be carried on subs, but something along the line of the Israeli POPEYE TURBO cruise missile would be something that they could use.
South Korea has several German 209 designs, and the Israeli DOLPHIN’s are modified 209′s , so they could possibly adopt both the P-T’s and the AIP.
Subotai Bahadur
LOTM (62),
Not sure that’s comparable: providing an economically-viable large-scale replacement for something in ubiquitous usage wasn’t really the point of Manhattan, was it? (Apollo and its predecessors, same story.)
Please forgive long snip from article by Dr. Tim Ball (emphasis at close of this snip is mine):
“The IPCC is a political organization and yet it is the sole basis of the
claim of a scientific consensus on climate change. Consensus is neither
a scientific fact nor important in science, but it is very important in
politics. There are 2500 members in the IPCC divided between 600 in
Working Group I (WGI), who examine the actual climate science, and 1900
in working Groups II and III (WG II and III), who study “Impacts,
Adaptation and Vulnerability” and “Mitigation of Climate Change”
respectively. Of the 600 in WGI, 308 were independent reviewers, but
only 32 reviewers commented on more than three chapters and only five
reviewers commented on all 11 chapters of the report. They accept
without question the findings of WGI and assume warming due to humans is
a certainty. In a circular argument typical of so much climate politics
the work of the 1900 is listed as ‘proof’ of human caused global
warming. Through this they established the IPCC as the only credible
authority thus further isolating those who raised questions.
The manipulation and politics didn’t stop there. The Technical Reports
of the three Working Groups are set aside and another group prepares the
SPM. A few scientists prepare a first draft, which is then reviewed by
governments and a second draft is produced. Then a final report is
hammered out as a compromise between the scientists and the individual
government representatives. It is claimed the scientists set the final
summary content, but in reality governments set the form. The SPM is
then released at least three months before the science report. Most of
the scientists involved in the technical or science report see the
Summary for the first time when it is released to the public. The time
between its release to the public and the release of the Technical
Report is taken up with making sure it aligns with what the
politicians/scientists have concluded. Here is the instruction in the
IPCC procedures. “Changes (other than grammatical or minor editorial
changes) made after acceptance by the Working Group or the Panel shall
be those necessary to ensure consistency with the Summary for
Policymakers (SPM) or the Overview Chapter.” Yes, you read that
correctly. This is like an Executive writing a summary and then having
employees write a report that agrees with the summary.
When you accept an hypothesis before it is proven you step on the
treadmill of maintaining the hypothesis. This leads to selective and
even biased research and publications. As evidence appears to show
problems with the hypothesis the natural tendency is to become more
virulent in defending the increasingly indefensible. This tendency is
underlined by John Maynard Keynes sardonic question; “If the facts
change, I’ll change my opinion. What do you do, Sir.” The IPCC and those
who were chosen or chose to participate were locked in to a conclusion
by the rules, regulations and procedures carefully crafted by Maurice
Strong. These predetermined the outcome – a situation in complete
contradiction to the objectives and methods of science.
(end snip –read more at link)
I’ve said it for years: global warming is a scam to raise your taxes. The giveaway was how all the people who were so sure global warming was a big deal were the same people who always wanted to raise your taxes.
As a Climatologist, I am out raged at such blatant fraud. But, let’s Move On.
Please send me $259,000 so that I can complete my report to explaining why it is necessary to manipulate temperature data for the ignorant Joe Sixpack to understand – and to fly back to the UK in Al Gore’s Gulfstream G650 before the holidays. You know the cost jet fuel is through the roof these days.
Please send cash or money orders. I am not sure how long The Institute of Climatology’s non-profit status will last. Thank you.
This is great news. In addition to the economic data of the past two years, it seems our predictions are slowly vindicated by events.
We must keep the pressure on. Breitbart and gang are correct – attack, keep attacking. Be it global warming, keynesian economic policy, Obama, or multiculturalism, just keep documenting their failures and harp on them. Then show our better solutions and concepts.
There’s still a long way to go, and it’s still likely there’ll be a crash along the way, but if we do it right, we can pick up the pieces and ensure these fools never gain credibility again.
I would suggest that among the most significant aspects of this matter is that the leftists who hoped to ride AGW to total power over the world economy are too stunned to respond.
Where are our customary leftist trolls? Where is moho? Where is Now and Then? Where are vivo and biblio? Have they nothing to say as one of their two principal weapons is knocked from their hands?
I don’t think they’re just out having a beer together. Do you?
buddy larsen/86
Ah yes. Maurice, that old geezer, pops out everywhere where some sort of scam is going on, the bigger the scam, the more comfy he feels, that crafty snake.
It is often hilarious when lefties are pointing an accusatory finger at Big Oil. In fact, Big Oil (still controlled by Rockefellas, despite operations conducted under different names) is fully behind the AGW–they would love to have oil prices in the stratosphere and have also something as a replacement for the case the supply diminishes, the carbon indulgences which would be a dream come true as profits go, no messy stuff, just totally virtual commodity that beats the oil profit margins by one order of magnitude.
And when you look at the linkages there is not one lefty/greenie/islamo outlet that Big Oil does not support.
The web they weave
Activist Cash
There is one simple rule with science: do not believe any scientist that will not release their dataset.
It took years to finally pry the dendrochronology dataset out from the AGW supporters, and it proved to be based on a grand total of 12 trees. We could have used that back in the 1990′s when the paper was released, but the data wasn’t released with it and researchers had to use the graphs and backtrack. Fast forward 12 years and all examination for errors and cross-checking with other datasets demonstrated there was something seriously out of whack with the first one…and only when the original researchers had to go to a reputable journal that required them to hand over the dataset for safekeeping was the problem actually seen.
You do not graft on one data set to another: you present them separately and demonstrate any correlation between them. Instead the ‘trick’ was to put them together to show correlation and then conveniently drop out a non-correlating dataset. When two datasets diverge and you have to use a ‘trick’ to get them to agree, you are hiding data and presenting a flashood by commission.
Other datasets that initially ‘supported’ the AGW hypothesis were re-examined and found to have processed temperature readings that did not agree with actual temperature readings. That from NASA/Goddard and they dealt with more than just US datasets, and once the problem was seen, pointed out to them and they had their noses rubbed in it, only then did they admit to the problem and reprocess the datasets. The re-processing made the data for AGW from those datasets become non-supporting, and yet the head of the agency involved still supported AGW, even when the data was against it.
Mean Sea Level datasets were examined and a preponderance of recording sites were found to be on land with measureable subsidence levels. In other words due to geophysical conditions, the land there was dropping in comparison to non-coastal land, thus the sea was not rising but the land was subsiding. That is the large scale problem in NOLA, with compaction being the problem for the delta region, but crust far away from spreading centers cools and compacts as it crystallizes over time, thus Atlantic coastal regions on both sides of the Atlantic have this problem. From relatively stable measurement areas have come readings to show little variation in MSL over the 20th century, and yet we still hear the ‘oceans rising’ siren’s song.
The ARGOS buoy array has descending buoys that measure temperature 20m down from the surface. That array has shown a slow and steady decline in that band of water globally, contrary to AGW predictions. All examinations and reprocessing leaves that dataset intact. Other sea based datasets have had problems of instrumentation errors that were not accounted for over time. Manufacturers had posted their problems and yet the measurement equipment was not adjusted, thus leading to bad data which had to be examined in regards to its equipment. Those datasets with the instrument error accounted for show no rise in global oceanic temperature.
This stuff goes on and on and on… yet the AGW religion persists. Why are continental glaciers receding? They aren’t, on all continents, and Antarctica has seen ice sheet coverage expand. Anyone who has ever worked with wines knows that there are shifts in micro and mesoclimates on a purely localized scale, and we cannot predict what minor changes in surrounding albedo, humidity and air currents will do to a given region for something as simple as grapes. For glaciers? Or the lack of arctic sea ice… which has had more to due with wind shifts than anything else, and if you watched Deadliest Catch for the last few years, you have witnessed that each year the Arctic sea ice is seen further south than it has ever been seen in living memory by the fishing fleets. This is not pointing to ‘an ice free Arctic’, particularly if the ice shifts and forces you into Russian territorial waters, which has happened in the last couple of years for more than one vessel.
Apparently the planet does some fun things with climate and temperature, and that has been recorded for 800 million years and more…the configuration of continents, now, with no single ocean on the planet has caused temps to plummet since the late Cretaceous and become cooler and widely variable, including these events known as ‘ice ages’. Time between ice ages have widely variable climate artifacts, that have non-correlating circumstances from what we can find out via the geologic record. We are in an inter-glacial period and can expect widely varying climate and temperatures just as we have seen in the last 12k years.
Scientists need to learn that ‘being first’ also has incumbent upon it releasing all datasets to come to those conclusions and not to hyperventilate and become dizzy with their own FIRST! While the US does fund basic science pretty well, no institution, no government, no part of academia funds the follow-up, cross-checking and ensuring the original data does, indeed, show what the FIRST! told us it shows. We could use that in science: the cross-checkers should be funded and get just as much visibility as the FIRST! posters. The rush to judgment was just that: a rush to judgment and short-circuiting the normal, decades long period of cross-checking data and hypotheses.
Not releasing datasets. Pushing a rush to judgment. Telltale marks of when scientists are not being forthright about their work. Now can we learn that lesson?
Whitehall:
The Russians were the earliest I know of to poo-poo AGW, even saying that the warming trend was about to reverse and go into cooling.
As to why Russian hackers would do this – do you recall the “Frame” piece by Wretchard on how the USA pressured the Russians to shut down servers in St. Petersburg that were being used for Spam, phishing, and various other illegal Internet activities? Maybe somebody in Russia did not like having his scam busted up.
But in any case, given the Russians’ cooperation and complicit actions in hacking, blaming it on them offers believable plausible deniability.
And scientists manipulating data and model results to attain social results that they desire is more common than not, even outside the machinations of DC. The CDC has issued warnings on gun violence. Cal Sagan warned of nuclear winter and then even claimed the Gulf War would cause it. The people at the National Tropical Storms center have admitted that they base their predicted storm tracks on who they think should evacuate rather than where the storm is actually going to go. And these are not even people with a clear political agenda.
Why should any of this be secret in the first place? Why isn’t ALL of this available to all of us? This garbage is the basis for calling for the end of the world- you’d think that everything ought to see sunlight.
Is AGW one of those too big to fail things?
No links available!
twoby/91; thanks for good article. That Judi McLeod is a bulldog on Canada’s expert UN-levering malefactors. Here’s another –sure ’nuff, the Chicago Climate Exchange is far dirtier than anyone is likely to’ve realized. Obama is directly linked –as is Goldman Sachs, of course. Mercy –’intent to defraud’ is all over this whole scheme. Izzat still against the law, ya reckon?
RWE/94; no contradiction there –an oil exporter isn’t going to want th besmirch oil –and isn’t going to object to having a greater percentage of world production either –even to the extent, depending on that producer’s own scruples and capability, to silently backing American anti-drilling, anti-coal, anti everything (save boutique windmill gardens). Correlation of forces, as Leonid used to say. Just wait’ll the Russians and Chinese buy the western USA from King Obama –we’ll see some REAL mining and drilling THEN!
What I don’t understand is where is the House of Saud in all this? The Saudi’s stand to lose enormous wealth from their oil exports if there is widespread reduction in the use of carbon based fuels and materials. I would think that they would be dumping money by the cargo ship full into any anti-AGW groups they could find, and covertly creating ones if they aren’t there. So where are the Saudis?
If the Saudi’s aren’t fighting tooth and nail to protect their economic future, then what IS their game at this point?
StargazerA5
Tarnsman #56:
Geeze Lousie #58:
Eggplant #61:
The US Air Force is actually flying aircraft using synthetic fuels made from coal.
Habu @ 29
Good reminder.
Also consider the subscription option rather than a one-time tip.
Good reading,
Jim
S-A5/99; Husbandry, according to KSA itself. They’re painfully aware that in a hundred years, they’re back to what they did before the 20th century. One doesn’t hear near the volume of that sort of thinking in Russia –Russians no doubt assume they’ll tech their way around the reserve declines.
well, the Carbon taxe is unpopular by us, even the lefty parties are against it, cuz it would undermine the weakest population that still would have to pay it, when they have nothing to pay for the other charges.
Now, I suspect Sarkozy reversing his position in order to charm Angela Merkel, who hadn’t him in high regards at the beginning of his mandate, and if he wanted to keep his leeding position in EU, he had to comply. But this isn’t too difficult for him, as a pragmatic politician !
Now, this is one more deceiption with him. Hope this is the last !
I rarely comment on GW because I’m not technically proficient on the subject. Nevertheless, I have noticed that two subjects at PJM tend to generate the longest comment threads: Sarah Palin and GW. And this is largely due to comments left by the usual pack of trolls. Today through two long comment threads on the subject of GW the usual suspects are completely absent.
I can offer only conjecture. 1) This news is so devastating and so likely to be true that the trolls are beating a hasty retreat on the subject. 2) More likely, they are so befuddled that they’re having trouble coming up with a counter-response. We will know if and when they arrive with a carefully contrived script.
buddy larsen,
Husbandry, according to KSA … One doesn’t hear … that sort of thinking in Russia
We can construct a Taxonomy of Creeps.
The Saudis are classic rent seekers. Their god has given them an asset and they live off of it. The rent they get is either consumed or use to purchase other assets. They produce almost nothing for export except murderous young men and clerics who teach others to be violent and uncreative.
The Russians are thugs. They explore the vulnerabilities in their neighbors and then get control over them by whatever means they can. It could be by manipulating energy supplies or drugs or internet traffic. They are willing to work, just not work for mutual advantage. Given how Russians see the correlation of forces, China rising and the West imploding, it is rational to them. Their biggest problem isn’t the temporary nature of their hydrocarbon supplies but the shrinking pool of Russians.
So they are different. With luck if the US were to pull back from brink of auto-castration advocated by Obama through AGW self impoverishment, Health Care socialization, and unilateral disarmament, the Russians could respond by switching from being a junior partner to China in the SCO to being supporters of Western civilization. For the Saudis I see no path to a positive outcome.
~Paules,
We are at the stage now when we have just uncovered one of their lairs. Let’s see who panics and which rabbits start running in what directions.
To be blogged under the title, “A Taxonomy of Creeps.”
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Who is the Global Warming Truther now, eh?
NikFromNYC @ 73
There are also the records of the Hudson Bay Company.
http://www.mhs.mb.ca/docs/transactions/3/changingclimate.shtml
Here in the Great White North, to invoke the name of climatologist Dr. Tim Ball is to elicit a reaction amongst AGW loons akin to whispering the phrase, “Niagra Falls”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pQii1L8fGk
Decades ago, had him as a prof. for three years. Ex(Royal)Canadian Air Force. The stories he did tell.
By the by, Al Gore and Dave (don’t mention my three houses) Suzuki will be proselytizing to save their tushies Nov. 25 Nov., CBC’s Q.
In light of recent developments, should be a hoot.
Contrary to what the sceptics claim, the Royal Society, the US National Academy of Sciences, Nasa and the world’s leading atmospheric scientists are not the agents of a clandestine global movement against the truth.
Contrary to common belief, the Royal Society has become a religious cabal, no longer a scientific organization. The change of clothes became clear when it recommended that grants be denied to heretical researchers whose investigations might result in conclusions contra to the ‘settled science’ of AGW. Follow the collection plate.
Morning, all. OT, but I just heard the Republican weekly political speech about health care, and there’s something I noticed the other day, and meant to post here on an appropriate thread, but here goes anyway.
What’s all this about “Cadillac Health Care Plans”?
I don’t even understand the concept, really, but pass that for a second. Of course, one of the ways to help pay for the entire obamanation is to tax these “Cadillac health care plans” – by 40%! So now, what *is* such a plan? According to that list of new taxes in the overall plan, “Any plan over $8,500 for a single person, $12,500 for a family”. WHAT? THAT WILL BE ALL PLANS! If today, I go to Blue Shield of California to get a standard $500 deductible PPO individual plan for myself as a 50-something male in overall good health but in expensive Los Angeles, do you have ANY IDEA of the monthly premium?????
$1,580 per month
yes, per MONTH
The way to get that premium WAY down is to increase the deductible up above $4,000. Which I have, of course. I have an HSA plan – but I understand these will be ILLEGAL under the obamanation – because judged “antisocial”, to contribute so little premium to the pool.
So, will I be forced to buy a Cadillac plan, and then taxed 40% more on it?
And actually, I expect the base rates on ALL new plans to be 50% higher than currently to start with, to make up for the preexisting conditions and other new requirements. So, it *seems* to me I will be forced to spend about $10,000 a year more on health care INSURANCE under the obamanation, even if I remain healthy. Or, my employer might spend some or all of that for me, but it’s still fungible money, right?
I keep ranting on this, THE NUMBERS IN THESE PLANS DO NOT WORK.
MSNBC has now linked this story to their website. We can draw a number of conclusions. 1) The story has legs. 2) Even the MSM can’t ignore it. That’s the good news.
So what do you do if you’re an influential member of the MSM? A) Maintain the fiction of GW and claim that one flawed study does not debunk the theory? B) Capitulate to the polling data that indicates the public was never concerned about the issue anyway. Cut your losses. Let the idea die a natural death. C) Throw Al Gore & Co. under the bus in an effort to redeem whatever credibility you have left? D) Ride the maelstrom to the bitter end?
RWE@100: The US Air Force is actually flying aircraft using synthetic fuels made from coal.
Who’s the supplier – stateside I assume? Do you know if Rentech is part of the development team? Last I heard, Rentech was the only manufacturer in USA. Score a big one for the Air Force.
@ 104 –
Agreed. The verbose and garrulous “Lazar” is mysteriously absent from this thread. Why, oh why, when his perspective is so desperately needed???
The science for AGW might be settled but the evidence is not. Or as Wretchard wrote, “The geek just ate the chicken.”
RE: synfuel supplier for Air Force, Wiki provides part of the answer:
In Dec. 2007, Rentech hired lobbying firm Brownstein Hyatt & Farber, which will lobby the federal government to fund coal-to-liquids development. Also in December, Rentech appointed Dr. Ronald Sega to its board of directors. Sega headed the Air Force’s energy strategy, and flew on the first Air Force jet powered by synthetic fuels in September 2006.
Still curious if the Air Force is developing it’s own proprietary synfuel process.
Does this mean, perhaps, that Al Gore will have to return his Nobel Prize?
buckets,
Do you mean the Lazar who cried Wolf? He was a butchered Butcher. Now he fiddles while Gore burns.
Besides it was clear that someone wandered in not knowing what they were talking about.
verbose and garrulous
Is that like extra more redundant?
“But the evidence pointing to a growing human contribution to global warming is so broad and deep that the hacked material is unlikely to erode the overall argument.”
Andrew Revkin, writing in the NYTimes
Hardly ever pointed out by “warmists” is the huge gulf between the notion of a “human contribution to global warming” and the fanatical, agenda driven hysteria (promulgated by Al Gore, Ban Ki Moon and many others with self-serving, monetary and control driven agendas) that “human beings are causing catastrophic climate change.”
The entire debate has become wildly politicized.
Many so called scientists (including some contributing to the IPCC reportage) have sold their integrity to the devil in willingly promulgating the Leftist agenda regarding AGW.
Tanstaafl:
Sounds like Revkin is taking the Dan Rather appoach with “faked but true documents.” I guess he’s opted to go down with the ship.
Hoo boy!
I am reminded of Michael Crichton’s “State of Fear.” In order to save whatever mental health I still have, I assiduously avoid conspiracy theories of every stripe. However. I’m not sure that I buy the “Russian hacker” narrative, but AGW “consensus” has so many fingerprints on it that my efforts to resist calling it con … conspi …. conspiracy are becoming a bit like believing in Santa Claus.
Can you help me Lazar?
Buddy, LOTM:
A Taxonomy of Creeps? More!
Hey, Green Czar, that light at the end of the tunnel was the karma train, beesh!
-And, ’bout damned time too!
I ♥ the good h4X0R2
Quick thoughts:
1. Where’s Lazar?
2. The last thing Russia wants is for Europe and the US to wean themselves from fossil fuels. They’ve done very well selling pollution allowances to the EU under Kyoto, but looking long-term, Russia (a) is probably better off internally if the world warms a few degrees, and (b) needs to keep the EU dependent on their petroleum and NG in order to pursue their security strategy of re-establishing a secure buffer zone around the Russian heartland. Maybe this was a Russian govt operation, or maybe just something they allowed to happen? Once it’s out they can be shocked, SHOCKED that there was gambling at Rick’s, shut down the server, and kill all the witnesses, but it’s already done.
3. Looking at a few of the hacked emails, it strikes me that these guys may have considerable legal risks. At least insofar as anyone in these emails, or their organizations, got grants from the United States government, check out 18 U.S.C. 1001:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/1001.html
Plus, actual fraud in the use and securing of money. I assume the UK has some similar protections for its funds and communications bewteen govt grant-makers and the recipients.
4. Will affect the true believers not a bit. Virtually the same people are already ignoring everything in Maj. Hasan’s background, this is a piece of cake compared to that. But if 10-20% are open-minded, it changes the political balance enough to change the political outcome.
The quote tanstaafl points to @ 120 shows the trope: “But the evidence pointing to a growing human contribution to global warming is so broad and deep that the hacked material is unlikely to erode the overall argument.”
Of course, all that “evidence” is not independently corroborated but just self-referential and the work of people whose integrity has just been impugned–yet, it is still used to justify its own “findings.”
Only a highly trained journalist or academic can be so stupid, or, rather, think everyone else is that stupid.
Revkin: But he added that he thought the revelations might backfire against climate skeptics. He said that he thought that the messages showed “the integrity of scientists.”
The … integrity? That they knew the results were fake, but their integrity forced them to lie for the greater good?
Sorry to show up late for this; and I don’t have the time to read the entire thread, but I have been involved with trading the energy markets for years, and I am hear to tell you that it was the late unlamented Enron Corp. that came up with the design for trading carbon dioxide offsets. They of all people knew perfectly well that the main sources for these offsets were hot air and bullshit, and though they didn’t have a monopoly on same, they were most certainly long!
It should be published far and wide and deeply considered whether anything that Enron dreamed up should be something the world should engage in: the wreckage of wholesale electricity market “deregulation” in California and nationally also has their fingerprints all over it, much to our detriment.
Powerline does a great job of parsing out the argument from these emails.
If I understand it correctly, the most celebrated paper with the clearest results in the entire AGW universe, is based on a very tiny sample probably cherry-picked from a tiny set, using poor methodology that would bring it into question (eg, would invalidate it by even moderate standards) on a number of counts even if there were 10x the data from 100 locations.
So, at most, the entire study *might* represent, in crude form, weather in one location over a long period, but that is veeery thin evidence for concluding the entire world followed the seame trend. And the main author’s behavior in not discussing the many issues, and in not publicly releasing his data, is completely unsupportable, and his co-author’s behavior in not knowing the answer to several of these challenges, is not credible.
When exposed, AGW promoters use Rather defence: fake, but accurate. Data are invented? But real data show the same. Diagram was doctored? Yes, but the corrected graph tells the same story. Models are inaccurate? Yes, but more accurate versions also show this trend. And so on and on … Do not look for a smoking gun in a form of outright fabrication or conspiracy. To make a scientific conclusion untrustworthy, such negligence and integrity deficit is quite sufficient.
WS/126; re Enron’s trading designs, wouldn’t it be hilarious if one of the designers was now the Obamappointed Chairman of the Commodity Futures Trading Commission?
126. weSwinger:
Sorry to show up late for this; and I don’t have the time to read the entire thread, but I have been involved with trading the energy markets for years, and I am hear to tell you that it was the late unlamented Enron Corp. that came up with the design for trading carbon dioxide offsets. They of all people knew perfectly well that the main sources for these offsets were hot air and bullshit, and though they didn’t have a monopoly on same, they were most certainly long!
It should be published far and wide and deeply considered whether anything that Enron dreamed up should be something the world should engage in: the wreckage of wholesale electricity market “deregulation” in California and nationally also has their fingerprints all over it, much to our detriment.
Late, maybe, but ‘timely’ in a more important way, I think. I believe your points are among the most important in this thread, because they go right to the heart of the matter: It’s not the science, but the bad policy driven by the ‘science.’ Whether or not some kind of ‘global warming’ is actually going on, the ‘solutions’ to the ‘crisis’ are draconian, corrupt, and will be disastrous.
In his farewell speech (do Presidents even give those anymore?), Eisenhower not only warned against the ‘military/industrial complex,’ but also warned against relying on the opinions and influence of technocratic ‘experts’ in formulating government policy. In both instances, we ignored him to our peril.
I can believe Russian backhats, sent by Putin to discredit the Greens to keep the oil burning. There is that much money at stake and not much hacker leet skill needed.
Paules, there are a lot of Dan Rather moments inside the leftist brain.
For example, when the British film maker stood up and told Al Gore directly that “polar bears are increasing in number.” Al Gore replied (just before his “people” cut the guy’s mike)
“You don’t believe polar bears are endangered ?”
Or when Newsweek editor Evan Thomas said he hoped the Ft. Hood assassin didn’t have an Islamic name, that he was just a guy going off his rocker, you know, like any other guy going off his rocker.
Same guy Evan Thomas (grandson of socialist Norman Thomas) said, after the Duke case unravelled and the accuser was shown to be a fraud, “the narrative was right, but the facts were wrong.”
We saw Barack Obama’s “race” narrative in play in the Henry Louis Gates affair.
In all areas of human endeavor, Leftists seem to be dedicated to some collectively agreed upon narrative, facts be damned. Their climate narrative is, of course, that climate change is human induced. Any information to the contrary is dismissed with a wave of the hand, and whole international bodies (and leaders) are on board for the agenda.
Envisioning themselves smarter than the hoi polloi and seeing themselves as purveyors of the greater good and destined to rule, in their view, their own explanations for any events that happen anywhere, anytime in the world trump the truth. They don’t seem the least bit taken aback when some pesky facts intrude on their delusions of grandeur.
This phenomenon relates to the growing power grab going on in Congress at the moment and the Barack Obama administration’s conviction that they are smarter and more enlightened than the writers of that 250 YO document that still manages (only slightly) to obstruct their version of a More Enlightened New World Order.
As for Dan Rather, he has lost any and all legal attempts to undo his CBS fiasco.
Justice survives, just barely.
pls delete
“In his farewell speech …, Eisenhower … warned against relying on the opinions and influence of technocratic ‘experts’ in formulating government policy.”
That was only part of it. Eisenhower also warned of the danger of research becoming dependent on government funds — which also seems to be part of the current disgrace. In Eisenhower’s own words:
“Akin to, and largely responsible for the sweeping changes in our industrial-military posture, has been the technological revolution during recent decades. In this revolution, research has become central; it also becomes more formalized, complex, and costly. A steadily increasing share is conducted for, by, or at the direction of, the Federal government.
“Today, the solitary inventor, tinkering in his shop, has been overshadowed by task forces of scientists in laboratories and testing fields. In the same fashion, the free university, historically the fountainhead of free ideas and scientific discovery, has experienced a revolution in the conduct of research. Partly because of the huge costs involved, a government contract becomes virtually a substitute for intellectual curiosity. For every old blackboard there are now hundreds of new electronic computers. The prospect of domination of the nation’s scholars by Federal employment, project allocations, and the power of money is ever present — and is gravely to be regarded.
“Yet, in holding scientific research and discovery in respect, as we should, we must also be alert to the equal and opposite danger that public policy could itself become the captive of a scientific-technological elite.
“It is the task of statesmanship to mold, to balance, and to integrate these and other forces, new and old, within the principles of our democratic system — ever aiming toward the supreme goals of our free society.”
Won’t make any difference. Obsolete theories last until the last academic believing that theory dies. Look at the “OIL is dead dinos” theory. Despite finding OIL in geological stable places, the basins in Texas and Gulf of Mexico refilling and OIL on a moon of Saturn, the true believers of the “OIL is dead Dinosaurs” theory won’t let go.
Nothing will make them, except death.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/04/090406091234.htm
http://www.nasa.gov/centers/ames/news/releases/2007/07_40AR.html
http://www.rense.com/general63/refil.htm
Despite the evidence that the OFD theory is wrong and the fact that so far nobody has been able to model a physical method of turning dead dinos into oil, the theory won’t die. They would have us believe that dinosaurs use to vacation on Hyperion
A better theory is that OIL is the lubricant between the Mantel and the crust. That theory has the advantage of explaining all the observations and a model of the material in the mantel interacting with the crust has been done, although I can no longer find the URL to that model, so it might have been pulled because it was flawed.
If only the AGW nutters were so honest.
Those pushing the AGW line rely on climate models to prove that there is global warming and that it is caused by carbon dioxide produced by humans. The AGW line is itself caused by carbon dioxide-the hot air emitted by its proponents.
The climate models are unscientific. They do not include any historical information about climates beyond the 20th century. We are now in an interglacial period, the last major Ice Age having ended 10,000 years ago and the next in 10,000 years in a twenty-thousand year cycle dependent on the changing orbit of the Earth around the sun. There have, in addition, been many changes in the period in between, dependent on the sun, like the mini-Ice Age of four hundred years from the 14th to the 19th centuries. Then there are the changes due to volcanic eruption, movements of the continents, changes in the oceans.
Wow. What a joy!
Over 120 comments in a row, and not one from vivo, now and then, david s, biblio44, or any of the other paid leftist trolls. I guess Soros hasn’t figured out the best talking points on this yet and his mouthpieces don’t know what to say when he’s not being their ventriloquist and pulling their strings.
When the behavior of the government, scientists, and other interested parties are less than stellar, manipulative, or dishonest, their lack of transparency and honesty force others to respond with adversarial tactics or illegal means, such as hacking, burglarizing, or “sting” type operations.
In other words, the lack of honesty or deceitful behavior creates unintended consequences which eventually can threaten the very institutions that are cherished.
Hopefully the spike passes and the system self-corrects. However, continuous dishonest behavior creates more extrajudicial actions by others and can destroy the system entirely.
122. Konyak
Hate to break this to you, but, Santa Claus is real…
Weswinger 126:
Yes, I knew that and meant to mention it, so thanks.
But according to what I read Enron was not just eager to participate in carbon trading but was depending on it to save their sorry butts.
When things started coming unzipped at the seams for Bernie Madoff he sent salesmen for his investment services out around the world to try to draw in more suckers. That is the strategy that Enron was banking on.
Geokstr #137: What a joy indeed! So many people providing such insight and technical information! I’m proud to be part of y’all!
“sprinkled with Peer Review dust…”
Thank you Darren for that gem in your post No. 26.
I gots to steal that wonderful phrase and put it to work in academia. Maybe I can print up some labels and put’em on bottles of dyed sugar…
134. Kinuachdrach:
Thanks for the clarification and additional details on Eisenhower’s farewell speech. He was, and is, a much underappreciated President. For one thing, he was an actual grownup, a quality sorely lacking in much of today’s governing elite.
I recall how so many Americans reacted to JFK’s candidacy which reminds me of the Obama phenomenon. Many Americans chose to vote for JFK because they were ‘tired of that stuffy old Eisenhower and his morose VP;’ they wanted ‘glamour,’ and I suppose they got it. Kennedy may have ‘won’ because of Chicago-based voter fraud (ironic, isn’t it?), and proceeded to: 1)show himself as weak to Kruschev — thus precipitating the Missile Crisis, and 2) make a mess of the Bay of Pigs effort, and 3) seemed unable to keep his pants zipped.
O/T…..permision requested..
“Take any two young people, 16-24 years old. Odds are, one of them will be unemployed. Joblessness among the young has hit 53% – a post WWII high.
Good jobs will be hard to come by. Because the ‘growth’ of the bubble period – 2001-2007 – was a fraud. Instead of building up capital assets and creating more jobs, people borrowed money …and then squandered it. And now, the recovery is a fraud too. Now, the government pumps up the economy with cheap credit…borrows trillions…and wastes the money on pointless ‘stimulus’ programs.
And day after day, the debt builds up. Soon, it will be too big to handle. And then, these same young people – who can’t get a foot onto the lowest rung of the employment ladder – will be asked to shoulder this huge burden of debt left to them by their parents. You can imagine their reaction…”
http://tinyurl.com/ya6pd4h
Just an aside:
Remember the name Roger Revelle. He’s the late climatologist who was a professor and mentor for the young Al Gore. He’s also the man who is credited with starting the speculation about AGW. It’s important to note that he began to disavow his AGW beliefs and theories shortly before his recent death.
The notion of AGW has been around for quite a while, which is one reason why so many people are tiring of hearing about it, since they are expecting things like “Palm trees on Park Avenue” to have happened by now. AGW has also had the sad effect of pushing aside or subsuming/conflating genuine environmental issues and concerns to its ravenous demandsd on policy and funding.
‘A GLOBAL CULTURE OF CORRUPTION’
Look for that or a similar headline someday on the masthead of papers like the NY Post and the U.K. Sun.
These headlines may not come as a result of the CRU hack, but with the accumulation of actions by and evidence against the global elite, we will see such headlines in the near future.
http://bishophill.squarespace.com/blog/2009/11/20/climate-cuttings-33.html
This site is running down alot of the stuff as well and is updating as they find new stuff…
Due to the massive size of the information dump this story will take weeks to unfold.
The fact that there is no significant warming last decade is not in itself a refutation of AGW and can be easily explained by a natural variability. Excessive heat was simply dumped into the ocean by the changed ocean circulation. Heat capacity of the ocean is 1000 times greater than that of atmosphere, and the system of ocean currents works as a heat pump. But the problem with this argument is that this heat pump works both ways and can just as easy be a source of a huge amount of atmosphere warming, concurrently cooling the ocean. So the last 3 decades of warming also can be explained as natural variability, making AGW hypothesis redundant and so subject to disposal by Occam’s razor.
What amuses me most, when AGW proponents are told that there was no warming last decade, they always respond that the last decade was the hottest in history. True, but totally irrelevant: smooth curves ALWAYS attend their peak values exactly when they turn from a rise to decline. This is the first semester stuff in calculus, so the peak value of temperature is in a perfect agreement with switching from warming phase to a cooling phase.
DAS,
I am grateful that Santa delivered this package before Copenhagen.
I’ve been thinking about one of Lazar’s comments on the other thread. He reluctantly agreed with me that politicization was “bad FOR SCIENCE.” I didn’t press him then, but I’ve been wondering whether he was implying that nevertheless politicization was good for politics, or good for exercising the precautionary principle (ie. “good for the planet”) or good for climate scientists or maybe good for *green* entrepreneur/hucksters.
I think this might be a good time to revist “post-normal science.”
Here’s the wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-normal_science
JbS/135; earth lube –brings to mind Al Gore on a recent talk show (Fox–Hannity? –gleefully ran this clip) being asked his opinion of geothermal energy and responding with an expert-sounding opinion that it has great possibilities because ‘…inside the earth it gets up to “several million degrees”‘.
Actually in a weird way such gaffes slightly exonerate Big Al –as in, maybe he IS stupid, and not just a crook. I mean (depending on we don’t disagree what degree we agree a degree is) a stupid crook is morally several million degrees better than a smart crook.
Anyhoo, if you penetrate the solar photosphere and get a little ways in to where the pressure is about earth’s at sea level, ya get yer ‘several million degrees’ –so maybe Al isn’t really 300-350 times off, but just gets his celelstial bodies mixed up (like maybe his in the mirror, with Saturn or Jupiter).
Anyhoo, figuring earth’s max core as about 7,500F, a temperate zone summertime 75F surface temp equalling a hundredth of that or 75F, then AlGore’s (using 2.5 as the smallest declension of ‘several’ –as two = 2 and beyond that ‘several’ = any small add short of ‘a half dozen’) then Al’s temperate zone summertime earth surface temp would be a Global Warming Orgasmic 25,000 degrees (of course Al would say he meant Celsius, which makes the polar bares and stuff all mush cooler).
132. tanstaafl
The notion of a guiding “narrative” is business as usual in the literary criticism/history academic domain I used to frequent before retiring.
One of the important thing about “dominant narratives” is that they serve an emotional need/phobia. Just as melodramatic Sadean narratives of vicious males doing nothing but turning females into pulpy messes is the fundamental narrative of radical feminist anti-heterosexual hate narratives–drawn originally by one of the founding feminist mothers directly from the novels of De Sade himself, namely Andrea Dworkin, so here.
The global warming narrative resurrects several standard “fear” narratives from early European history:
(1) “Famine” or scarcity narratives: all resources needed to sustain human life are limited, can never be expanded, and must therefore constitute (esp. as population grows) an ever-dwindling pie which is and will always be the source of zero-sum contests between classes of “haves” vs. “have nots.” One latter-day version of this coined by sociologists is “relative deprivation” theory: “Whatever someone has that I don’t have has been taken from me and must in justice be given to me.”
(2) “Primitivism” narratives: “Nature” and “humanity” are at mortal odds, because the latter is always in the business (oftentimes in the service of pursuit of goals articulated by Narrative No. 1 above) of exploiting (and thereby destroying) the former. This is master narrative of all environmentalists, a narrative that contains a “sub-narrative” involving the notion that humanity is an “evil” upon the face of the earth and its presence must be as curtailed as much as possible. As I’ve suggested on this site recently, this particular narrative is what drove the “Unabomber” killer, Ted Kacinski, as shown in the publised “Unabomber Manifesto.”
(3) A latter-day mutation of combinations of both the above narratives is 19th- and 20th-century marxism/socialism. Here, the zero-sum war for sustaining wealth is joined to the notion that human beings are after all evils upon the face of the earth to become the ideological foundation for Stalinist purges: in the name of supporting the egalitanian economy of marxism millions of human beings must die.
All in all, the fright of the scientists caught in the flashlight’s glare down in the basement doing their nefarious deeds is wholly predictable. Leaving aside typical academics’ desire to “one-up” one another–and therefore in this instance trash anyone who publishes data that contradicts one’s own fabrications–we get here a classic academics’ spit-ball fight for the resources of the academy itself: professional prestige which is monetizable in increased salaries and access to privileged academic “chairs.”
If I had to put my comment in one word I would use the word “fear” or perhaps even “panic.” Environmentalist and global warming mavens both are evolving panic narratives that responding to the almost unknown and barely-understood metamorphoses of the natural world. In the pre-Christian period, such panics produced gods and human sacrifices to the gods in the interest of protection from the not-understood forces of nature.
A glance at the Obama scam exhibits the same kind of idolatry: create a nanny state divinity which will save you from poverty, disease, death and destruction.
We really haven’t advanced all that far after all.
And yet, the circus continues unabated:
The Italian Foreign Minister threatened that “world leaders['] . . . credibility could suffer if they failed to make concrete commitments at next month’s Copenhagen climate summit.”
Central American countries will demand $105 billion dollars “from industrialized countries for damages caused by global warming. . . .We hope for a deal that is ethical and moral.”
Poland “is to sell 15 million euros’ (22 million dollars) worth of carbon credits to Ireland, the Polish environment minister said Saturday.”
That’s from just five minutes on Breitbart.
S/147; –that’s akin to the phenomena of “first found, last looked” –in which, by a statistically overwhelmingly significant number of times, when looking for a lost object it will be found in the exact last place looked.
Habu #143:
Yes, the bubble was corruption but two other things:
1. People have come to believe that the bubble was normal and are looking for a politician to bring back the good‘ol days. Note that this was the 2nd senseless bubble that burst in just the 21st Century, it followed the Dot Com bubble. Many youth followed the Al Gores and Obamas and came to believe that you really did not have to work hard at something useful – “useful” was defined by trendiness not real worth. This was the equivalent of a national policy of investment in Hula Hoops in 1960. And in turn this led to:
2. Young people not studying anything useful. Why get a degree in engineering or medicine or learn to be a machinist if it is so much easier to design web pages to sell dog food over the Internet or figure out how to sue a drug maker or other industry for imagined crimes? We have a generation of Rent Seekers.
Dan Miller #151:
“Central American countries will demand $105 billion dollars “from industrialized countries for damages caused by global warming. . . .We hope for a deal that is ethical and moral.”
This brings to mind a statement from the leader of Indonesia, I believe it was, and I think it was last year. He said that his country has all kinds of trees and should be paid to NOT cut them down and thus make global warming worse. So we have a new Dr. Strangelove with a new Doomsday Weapon.
#149 buddy larsen – Funny post! You remind me of that Intel commercial: our jokes aren’t like your jokes! (Bu-u-um… bum-bum-bum-BU_U_UM!)
Voltimand@150
Nice analysis. I think you’ve got your finger on it.
In the American West the AGW narrative is permanent drought. This level of specificity is simply beyond even the imagined competence of GC models. (Consider, Arizona has a bimodal climate. In some years most of the precipitation is monsoonal in the summer, some years it all falls as snow in the winter. GC models and regional models cannot predict which mode prevails without manually entering ENSO.) A principle of Physical Geography is that warmer temperatures accelerate the hyrdrologic cycle and result in more precipitation. The Sahara Desert exists not because of a mountain range rain shadow effect, it is due to relatively cold temperatures in the Atlantic Ocean at that latitude. Ditto coastal California.
AGW alarmists push the fear of drought because that is what concerns westerners. They rely on a “common sense” perception that when it’s hot it’s dry. In so doing they undercut their own favorite argument that the hoi polloi don’t understand the difference between weather and climate.
We live near Boeing field here in Seattle and my 9 year old son often drags me down there to look at planes (and visit his favorite flight store that sells model airplanes). Just standing behind the chain link fence and observing, these thoughts come to mind: the amount of human expertise that a decent airfield represents is staggering. The physics behind the materials, design and making of planes, their maintenace, gaining mastery of the techincs of flying, the knowledge of real-time weather patterns, the expertise of the traffic controllers, fuel delivery and safe handling and putting general safety mechanisms in place…and much more. What gnaws about the global warming elites is their disdain for all this human input and yes, striving for excellence that a single airfield represents. To sit back and call such an interlocking set of human excellencies a human disaster is the height of misplaced vanity. Wretchard uses a phrase now and then that could be construed as a cliche but doesn’t sound like it when he uses it; that is: “To reach for the stars.” For my son Boeing field is the maximum demonstration of our civilization reaching for the stars that there is. The freedom and beauty of flight that Boeing airfield represents is a wonderful thing. For the global elites — the scientists who endore false algoreithms to prop up their fake science, who would trash this magnificence as something we need to get out of the way towards some next big thing that they can’t prove…is so base and so shallow. The left is all about gnawing at the pillars of civilization…
the more we see behind the scenes – our military paralyzed by PC phantom fear, Obama’s inner circle inarticulate praisers of Mao, and now grant-receiving scientists shutting down opposition…yes, termites all -stealth, underground, nighttime gnawing termites. But I’ll teach my son to reach for the stars.
There’s a great post over at powerline about the content of many of the emails. IMHO it’s absolutely damning in large part because of what the scientists in question say about their own work.
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2009/11/024995.php
MM/154; LOL –yessir, with Algore, you have to chortle to keep from blubbering. Gore, of course, has obviously chosen to blubber.
D/156 & RWE/153; re ”star-reachers” vs ”rent seekers” –maybe add ”spun apes” –as a hundred years ago (say 1.25 lifetimes) akmost everyone in America had never seen an airplane, automobile, telephone, refrigerator, or air conditioner. Two hundred years ago, a mere 2.5 lifetimes, the fastest we could get a message thru space was on horseback.
So we might grant ourselves the small grace of perhaps being less circling down a drain and more whirling up a tornado. or we might not so grant ourselves. In “Unforgiven” Clint Eastwood about to shoot Gene Hackman listens to Hackman say “I’m building a house –I don’t deserve this”. Eastwood growls “Deserve’s got nothing to do with it” and then shoots Hackman dead. Of course there is a moral to that story, and that Moral is –oh hell the phones ringing –
So far I see nothing in these stolen files that surprises me, and I expect most observers will react the same way. No smoking guns, just a lot of tawdry partisanship.
I teach astrophysics and astronomy in college and have taught my classes about the GH effect and its complexities for some years. Most students don’t understand the physics and that is what I focus on. But these revealed emails sadden and disgust me. In teaching non-scientists about what science is and how it works I quote someone who describes science at its finest as overthrowing long-held and cherished theories. AGW probably fits in that category (cherished, by many, for sure). I believe that open willingness to develop, support observationally and finally advocate the overthrow of a cherished theory is seen in much of science, frequently. Certainly it is in the fields in which I work (not GH studies). But not with these sorry, politicized folks. Are they, in the end, scientists?
Das @ 156:
I’m totally with you. I live in the provinces and get few chances to visit world-class cities. When I do, my perspective is always fresh. Last year I flew into Dulles Airport just outside Washington D.C. I regard that facility as one of the grandest structures in the history of civilization. Better even than the Pyramids of Giza. I was grinning ear to ear by the time I left the airport, proud of my country, and deeply grateful to have been born in the 20th century.
I guess what rankles me is that the Left is so casual about throwing it all away. I see now my leftist colleagues at school as the victims of poisoning. I have no antidote, so I answer their barbs with something like, “just because I’m in the minority doesn’t mean I’m wrong.” This latest turn of events regarding GW has made me suddenly more bold. I will be able to say from now on, “I agree with you that the debate on GW is over. It’s a lie based on fraudulent science.” Of course, such a statement is not going to change minds. The only cure for cultural poison is to suffer the disease to near death, and come to one’s senses when the fever finally breaks.
This is one of the top 10 stories of the entire year, and yet the lame stream does not carry it.
This story and the Acorn story and separately the Breitbart push at Eric Holder are just 3 MONUMENTAL stories that deserve page after page of main stream coverage and newspaper coverage yet so far they are getting zilch.
The leftists and lame streamers just do not even fathom how angry real Americans are at them and their ilk.
From their ridiculous support of the won ( barak hasan obama ) to their arrogance to tell Americans to this very day what is “good for us” all they are good for is toilet paper, and I mean it.
Tom(I would rather wipe with NYT than the Koran)_Ohio
One interesting aspect of this story is the role of Andrew Revkin, NY Times science reporter who has followed the AGW issue for the paper.
Apparently, emails to him from some of the AGW ‘scientists’ were included in the hack. (Powerline has discussed some of these emails on their site.) This has, at least, two interesting implications:
1. It made a total, unequivocal denial all but impossible. At first I was surprised that they didn’t just claim that the emails were fabrications. But if Revkin was a recipient of some of these emails, he would have known they weren’t (all) made up. Thus the AGWers had to admit they were real.
2. It creates a potential journalistic conflict of interest. I find it interesting that Revkin wrote yesterday’s NYT story about the hack, but did not disclose that he was a recipient of some of the emails. One would think that a journalist writing a story about hacked emails would disclose that some of the emails were to (and about) him.
Of course, he may now realize that he may have been a ‘useful idiot’ for AGW, the latest in a line of NYT dupes dating back to Walter Duranty.
I guess we’ll see what fury hell hath for scorned journalists…
L3
Actually in a weird way such gaffes slightly exonerate Big Al –as in, maybe he IS stupid, and not just a crook. I mean (depending on we don’t disagree what degree we agree a degree is) a stupid crook is morally several million degrees better than a smart crook.
Oh, I give him the benefits of all such doubts, as well as him being an unredeemed pot-head. But it doesn’t make me feel several million degrees better to have him running around stupid, seems to be a hockey-stick in progress on the stupid axis, and Al is the poster child.
I guess what rankles me is that the Left is so casual about throwing it all away. I see now my leftist colleagues at school as the victims of poisoning.
Paules @ #161, I have come to the conclusion that leftists are countrymen in name only. Timeshare Americans, they have a residence here but don’t take any ownership interest in fee simple, their loyalty is as renters, their patriotism is a cosmic joke.
By and large, liberals (differentiated from leftists)…are compassionate sheep, fed a steady stream of distortion and lies, which they lap up in the entrenched media trough.
Leftists call the plays from the blamefest playbook, keeping the class warfare, race warfare, gender warfare…alive and spitting out venom in the eyes of those that oppose statist one-worlders. Leftists are the disease, liberals are just carriers.
I have no antidote, so I answer their barbs with something like, “just because I’m in the minority doesn’t mean I’m wrong.”
Paules, you are NOT in the minority. This is an illusion created by the propaganda arm…Hollywood, the entrenched media and academia each keeping firing their daily salvo over the transom, to make it APPEAR that they are “majority” or “mainstream” thought. They aren’t.
But if they can spread the New Big Lie…folks who oppose the echo chamber playbook “message” get hesitant to speak up, because they know that the whole bag of peer pressure horrors awaits them. (being called stupid, not nuanced, “neo-conservative”, Neanderthal, homophobic, racist….even on issues that have NOTHING to do with race or sexual preference). This mark of Cain is a powerful weapon to keep dissent silenced. It not only stifles debate, but forces agreement. If one cannot get a tenured position at a University or cannot get a job as a journalist or an actor or director, because of the thin red line…you better believe it is going to LOOK like anyone who disagrees is in the minority. Again…you aren’t.
This latest turn of events regarding GW has made me suddenly more bold. I will be able to say from now on, “I agree with you that the debate on GW is over. It’s a lie based on fraudulent science.” Of course, such a statement is not going to change minds. The only cure for cultural poison is to suffer the disease to near death, and come to one’s senses when the fever finally breaks.
The leftist blamefest is not going to end by inertia. It will continue until it is spotlighted and given a determined thrashing by folks with a conscience.
I no longer believe that there is an honorable leftist in this world. Either they are malevolent or simply so ignorant as to be useless in the debate. Either way, leftism is a disease that needs to be aggressively remedied. It is the greatest danger to America and the West in modern times. Far greater than second place.
RICO ACT
THE RICO ACT MR. GORE. SOMETHING TELLS ME YOU ARE GOING TO BECOME VERY FAMILIAR WITH IT IN THE NOT TO DISTANT FUTURE.
The whole climate thing is a scam Al Gore fronted for and his cronies dreamed up way back when he was pushing hard for a BTU tax. They couldn’t get that passed as a way to tax energy consumption, so they dreamed up some other name for the same thing and tied it to global warming because that was the buzzword of the day.
Until someone gets the guts to go after Gore, they’ll never convict the people behind the entire scam. Gore would fold up like a cheap lawn chair if he were put in the position of either coming clean or serving time. When someone in Tennessee finally goes after him, he’ll provide enough ammunition for a solid RICO suit naming hundreds of the same people who were pumping the housing bubble.
regards
If I had to put my comment in one word I would use the word “fear” or perhaps even “panic.” …A glance at the Obama scam exhibits the same kind of idolatry: create a nanny state divinity which will save you from poverty, disease, death and destruction.
I was just musing on the fear element, from rising tides to H1N1 rising to consume you, it’s all fear all the time.
And a steady stream of mis-and dis-information.
Obama frequently dwells on the catastrophe that awaits unless he acts, whereas the real catastrophe is being effected through his acting.
We really haven’t advanced all that far after all.
A secretary of health & human services repeatedly demonstrating how to cough into your sleeve should elicit guffaws.
The governor of my state, having ducked a corruption charge with (it is speculated) the help of Eric Holder, has public service announcements telling you to keep your sick kid home from school.
Just touching the tip of the iceberg here.
We seem to be marching steadily backwards in the intelligence domain, with the self-anointed “global élite” (term used above) leading the charge and, apparently, some of the sheeple falling into step.
Creating fear & uncertainty in the population is central to the takeover. We’ve already given up quite a bit of personal autonomy to the government behemoth.
The main thing we have going in our favor is the stupidity & transparency of many of the fear mongers.
Hey everyone – just got back from Powerline – did you catch the newly minted cliche? The fake scientist referred to Revkin as the “Prestige Press!” And Revkin went along with it!
Prestige Press??? Come on people – time to offer up a big belly laugh at these idiots. We know we’ll never convince these folks through reasoned debate (since they wipe their feet with reason) – but let’s not give up on laughter and ridicule. The poet once wrote that there is ‘laughter that anihilates mountains.’
Prestige Press – HAAAHAAAAAAAHAAA!!!
I mean, if Al Gore has won both the Nobel Prize for Stupid and the Oscar for Stupid Film of the Year, should I feel good about that? If he’s been jetting around the world for ten years now spreading his Stupid Footprint everywhere, and consuming all available cookies, is that a good thing?
Welcome To The New Dark (Stupid) Ages
THE NUMBERS MIGHT BE FAKED,
BUT THE WORLD GRAPH AND PRETTY RED,
YELLOW AND ORANGE COLORS ARE VERY CLOSE TO ACCURATE!!
“The Sound Of All Hell Breaking Loose: Now Searchable!
The CRU emails are now searchable. Here’s one I stumbled across. (Bolding mine, read from bottom up.)
From: Keith Briffa To: mann@xxxxxxxxx.xxx Subject: Re: quick note on TAR Date: Sun Apr 29 19:53:16 2007
Mike
your words are a real boost to me at the moment. I found myself questioning the whole process and being often frustrated at the formulaic way things had to be done – often wasting time and going down dead ends. I really thank you for taking the time to say these kind words . I tried hard to balance the needs of the science and the IPCC , which were not always the same. I worried that you might think I gave the impression of not supporting you well enough while trying to report on the issues and uncertainties . Much had to be removed and I was particularly unhappy that I could not get the statement into the SPM regarding the AR4 reinforcement of the results and conclusions of the TAR. I tried my best but we were basically railroaded by Susan*. I am happy to pass the mantle on to someone else next time. I feel I have basically produced nothing original or substantive of my own since this whole process started. I am at this moment , having to work on the ENV submission to the forthcoming UK Research Assessment exercise , again instead of actually doing some useful research ! Anyway thanks again Mike…. really appreciated when it comes from you very best wishes
Keith
Keith
At 18:14 29/04/2007, you wrote:
Keith, just a quick note to let you know I’ve had a chance to read over the key bits on last millennium in the final version of the chapter, and I think you did a great job. obviously, this was one of the most (if not the most) contentious areas in the entire report, and you found a way to (in my view) convey the the science accurately, but in a way that I believe will be immune to criticisms of bias or neglect–you dealt w/ all of the controversies, but in a very even-handed and fair way. bravo! I hope you have an opportunity to relax a bit now. looking forward to buying you a beer next time we have an opportunity
mike
–
Michael E. Mann
Associate Professor
Director, Earth System Science Center (ESSC)
[snip]
(*I believe he’s referring to Susan Solomon here.)
A more detailed examination of a different series of emails pertaining to Briffa’s work is up at Powerline.
Don’t miss this commentary, either – The Death Blow to Climate Science.
Posted by Kate at 5:38 PM| Comments (31)
…-
“Y2Kyoto: As God Is My Witness, I Thought Polar Bears Could Fly
“Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the former.” – Albert Einstein”
http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/
I knew this nonsense had gone from theory to religion when I read the comments of a Professor of Ecology in my alumni newsletter”the earth has never been this warm”. This from a tenured professor. At the time I was reviewing the Viking history of Greenland and the concurrent Domesday Book inventory of ecclesiastical vineyards in England-both reflecting a climate warmer than our current one.After that I requested that my alma mater remove my name from their list.
Habu, just curious if you did time at Kadena?
@ DAS #156, Have you read Fallen Angels? If the left wins, then that story shows the only way your child will reach the stars.
This charade will continue and the not too bright amongst us will still panic that the seas will rise and cover Manhattan unless and until litigation is brought to bear against Al Gore and his host of fraudulent scientists.
Only when you hit baby Al in the pocketbook will he skulk away to try another type of scam. It is in his blood.
There is no need to be intellectual. It is all about money.
175. Tom
Thanks – I’ll check it out,
cheers D.
Goracle in Portland, Oregon 11/18/09
Linky
Your Democrats at work:
Article in Politico:
Reform tax would hit H1N1 vaccine manufacturers
In an attempt to illustrate the real world consequences of reform’s taxes, Senate Republicans are pointing out a provision that would tax the makers of swine flu vaccines and drugs. The provision raises $2.3 billion annually from drug makers who sell their products through government programs.
So, waddaya think, will this increase or decrease total healthcare costs?
Long late to the thread.
The really disturbing thing in this is the damage to the reputation of Science.
We are in the midst of a long wave of technical advancement unparalleled in human history. Medically, I personally have had coronary bypasses, carotid cleanouts (cant spell the technical description), cataract corrections and await the next set of age-related repairs. We also have genetic repairs of the eye and are on the brink of being able to repair major nerve insults.
The fundamental value of an engineer or a scientist (there aint a lot of difference, really) is that the physics leads to the answer, no matter what he may have wished or desired. A violation of that value is an attempt to deny physics. And without Physics, we are nothing.
Now comes this bunch of whores who have sold their honest reading of the numbers for a mess of pottage. The problem that this raises is a result of the passionate and religious embracing of this set of beliefs because it coincides with a goal of tyranny. Now that it is finally becoming indicted and the corruption of the “scientists” involved is apparent, the problem is that the rest of Science will be tainted.
Thats a problem in an era exposed to potential existential plagues and an increasingly expensive set of chemical energy sources. Who will an increasingly scientifically ignorant populace turn if we are judged suspect?
@DAS #177, It’s the one by Niven, Pournelle, & Flynn.
how was it hacked? not patching microsoft exchange or a little spearfishing?
“Most people say that is it is the intellect which makes a great scientist. They are wrong: it is character.”
Albert Einstein
onesimus
herb @ 180
Would I seem too simple-minded or reflexively small-govt or anti-statist to suggest that this whole thing (I was going to write “episode” but the AGW scare has been going on for 20 years) is the natural consequence of government dominating science funding?
If politicians and bureacrats are going to decide what gets researched, and be the ultimate arbiters of the quality of that research and therefore its results (through their power to fund or not)—well, what do you expect to be the result?
AGW is the biggest such issue, but go find good research on the effectiveness of Head Start or the Endangered Species Act or any liberal totem. You can find a bit because such research can be done for reasonable amounts of money, but (a) there’s nowhere near the amount of quality research on such topics as they deserve, and (b) expensive things like worldwide climate data collection and modeling are inherently govt functions and therefore (IMHO) totally corruptible.
I don’t have an answer except to be skeptical of all claims that help justify politicians indulging their worst urge, which is to dominate the rest of us.
btb, from the POV of the politicians, an education system that produces citizens incapable of critical thinking and lacking basic understanding of science—that’s not a bug, it’s a feature. The ones who claim different are almost all just trying to deliver for the teachers’s unions, which will in turn deliver for them.
Don’t listen to what they say, watch what they do.
Goldengoph @ 173
U of Minnesota?
#160 Horbrastar – No smoking gun? They as much as admit that they know the data and conclusions are false. In the emails regarding the Yamal study, they talk specifically about having fudged the numbers to make them fit the theory.
“It’s not the crime. It’s the cover-up.” The fact that they tried so hard to deny all this information, even in the face of FOI requests. Then, it was confirmed in the emails that they were intentionally hiding the data. They essentially admit that it was all a scam in the first place. No way to spin this. They can’t polish this particular turd.
Still no trolls. I guess they’re still awaiting the Soros talking Points. Unfortunately, the blogs are pre-empting them. We’re so used to their methodology, now, that we’re anticipating down their spin, before they can spin.
My Mother watches only MSM, lacking expanded Cable. I told her about this, and her response was that AGW is real. She totally failed to understand the significance of this expose. So, I explained all the falsehoods about AGW… and she grew bored. For her, until the MSM says it’s so, it ain’t so. She’s very smart, but she’s also 79. Things are just ingrained. Maybe if I buy her expanded cable? Then she can tune into Fox. Nah. She’d probably end up watching CNN.
Voltimand @ 150
Hear, hear!!! exactly.
“If I had to put my comment in one word I would use the word “fear” or perhaps even “panic.” ”
Of course, Crichton’s book on GW was “State of Fear.”
I would only add that your points 2 and 3 merged in 19th Century romanticism, which also gave us such blessings as Nazi racist ideology (in its German version).
I sometimes find the good news overwhelmed by the bad, and look for inspiration.
Shall we repair to the billiard room with brandy and cigars for a short pause from the hubub.
Europeans wildly applauding the American military:
http://www.sunlituplands.org/
A short historical review of the trials and tribulations our predecessors endured in the defence of Christendom/Western Civilization.
http://www.sunlituplands.org/search?q=malta
I think the Robbie Burns, not the Churchill would do nicely here.
Regards
herb/180
Who will an increasingly scientifically ignorant populace turn [to] if
we[scientists] are judged suspect?To engineers. Or to scientists of McIntyre kind, credentialed not by cliques of scientism but by a broad spectrum of peers of all walks of life.
Operator error…in hindsight it has become blazingly apparent that for both links, it’s necessary to scroll down one post.
180/189; herb & twoby;
Who will an increasingly scientifically ignorant populace turn [to] if we [scientists] are judged suspect?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revivalism
…comes around regularly –the colonies/USA has had six major distinct movements (the first in the mid-1700s, the most recent in 1904), defined broadly as a gturning toward the Protestant theme, originating in a wave of pessimism over human nature’s essential corruption, and resulting in creation of new forms and original reforms of the previous Protestantism.
Anyhoo, Climategate is offspring of the UN, that thing in Ike’s warning (BTW, great to see the extended quote –so much more resonant than the ‘military-industrial complex’ short version) got pushpulled into the slipstream for sure, but unelected ideologue zealot billionaires slipping into high positions at the UN –there’s your huckleberry.
137. geokstr: “Wow. What a joy! Over 120 comments in a row, and not one from vivo, now and then, david s, biblio44, or any of the other paid leftist trolls.”
Well, y’see geo, sometimes we trolls get tired talking to you a-holes. I mean, what’s the use arguing with right-wing idiots about climate change. It’s like arguing with the right-wing idiots who don’t believe in evolution. (I do like that “paid,” however; the sad/insane part is that you probably believe it.)
I can’t believe the number of greenie dipweeds who can’t do math. There’s not enough land area on the face of the Earth to generate from wind the power the US alone generates from coal. Yet these greenies keep talking about wind like it is a real solution. No wonder AGW is looking like a Dumb & Dumber sequel.
Subotai Bahadur @ 84:
In reference to subs. Just how good the Israelis are is known. Way back in the late 90′s was talking to an IDF F-16 pilot on a Friday (Shabbat) night at a friend’s home. He pointed out that the Israelis bought a stripped down version of the F-16 on purpose. Then they equip it with their own avionics which are far superior to the US versions. So, Israelis doing something outside of the box is not unheard of. They have to be inventive. And they sure are.
ajacksonian @ 93:
It has been a while and I have lost or deleted the links but, You are very right. I seem to remember that the guy who wanted to cross check asked for the dataset and the model. All they would give him was the input/output data but not the model. So he goes about reconstructing the model. (Well known mathematical techniques here, not any magic involved – has to do with self-similar sets.) He cranks and cranks but cannot get it to work unless he so corrupts it that it is useless. Then he gets the famous “hockey-stick”. Turns out you could feed it white noise data and still get a “hockey-stick”. Which means the model was so tricked out as to be useless.
biblio44 @ 192: Then go away, please.
cfbleachers @ 165 :
About the Left, I’m supporting your conclusion “they are malevolent” fully, without the either-or. See “Radical Left = Sinister Wing from last week, first in a series.
biblio44@192,
I believe in evolution, and yet I am also a skeptic of AGW. As to why I find the creationist right wingers more acceptable than AGW true believers…
Belief in creationism has no real impact on our lives (they can’t even use that argument against stem cell research), but AGW will encourage the growth of the state and impose silly, completely illogical taxes on the rest of us.
Even the left is getting contentious about Al Gore’s intentions. Graffiti and and a poor showing on Wed. although there were plenty of protesters outside of the auditorium, as well as some “good guys” across the street.
Talking with a useful idiot of the left, I quickly discovered it is not about the warming, it is about bringing down capitalism, and the federal reserve system. Seems all fine and dandy except that everyone of the leftist sob’s has their own verison of what happens next and none of them I talked too has much of an answer to what happens when the lights are turned off… Wind turbines so they don’t have to deal with carbon exhaust injuring and a decreased lung capacity. The cretins are blaming poor urban planing for asthma, and determining that all carbon sourced energy is the work of devils (even if they don’t believe in anything supernatural).
Wadeusaf
Das @ 156
That was so good. And very beautiful. Thanks.
Climate Change exists it is a NATURAL phenomenon driven mainly by Sun spot activities. There is not ONE scientific paper which PROVES that the MINISCULE amounts of CO2 in the air emitted by MAN have any noticeable effect on climate whatsoever. The earth has been COOLING for the past 12 years while mans CO2 emissions have continued to RISE. The NATURAL state of the planet over thousands of years is FAR warmer than it is now. CO2 rises ALWAYS follow Global Warming they NEVER precede it ask a GEOLOGIST not a CLIMATOLOGIST who cant even tell you if it will rain tomorrow. CO2 is not a pollutant it is a VITAL part of the cycle of life it feeds pants plants feed humans and animals MORE CO2 more plants more food better for life, LESS CO2 less plants man and animals starve. So apart from being TOTALLY wrong about AGW Green NAZI’s are also anti LIFE.
Mark Malone @ 186
Yes – by all means, get your mother cable. Then turn it to Fox when you visit her. It’s worth a try. She’s only old, not stupid.
#132 Tantaafl
Evan Thomas after the Duke “rape” case collapsed:
“The narrative was right but the facts were wrong”.
I thought this was one of the all-time classic quotes from the left, and covers not only the Duke rape case, but also the Bush National guard letters, and now AGW.
Re:#1
Correct.
The people who did this are not Black Hats. They would be classified as Grey Hats.
Many scientific societies have “Public Policy Statements” on Global Warming. The professional society I am most involved in, the American Chemical Society (ACS), issued its’ most recent “Public Policy Statement on Climate Change” in 2007. The ACS Statement essentially accepts and supports all aspects of the 2007 Report of the IPCC, as do the statements from the American Physical Society, etc.
In light of the disturbing revelations in these leaked documents, it will be interesting to see how many of these professional societies withdraw their statements supporting the IPCC. I am urging the ACS to withdraw their policy statement. Failure to do so will make the ACS and these other societies
complicit in fraud, and further damage the reputation of science.
I really believe that the pollution of our world and the ways in which we decide to start to clean it up, must be global and beyond politics. Also, there must be some sacrafice involved by our citizens and within our worldwide industry goals. Remember, our future quality of life is at stake here. We have spent hundreds of years destroying our planet. It will take hundreds of years to repair it. Its that simple. Thanks for the article.
RE #204 See post # 132.by tanstaafl about the leftist narrative.
Used to hear the stories in the 60s/70s about how it would take “100s of years” for Lake Eire to “come back to life”. When I left Michigan in the early 90s the walleye fishing (best done with beer of course) was terrific.
Dickins nailed it: It is always the best of times and the worst of times.
PC/204; We have spent hundreds of years destroying our planet
I know exactly what you mean. The planet (“plan it!”) is like a house with a family living in it. Every meal time the family destroys the clean kitchen. At night they go to bed and destroy the clean sheets. They use the bathroom and destroy the sanitation –the previous cleanup and the sanitary condition it had created.
They track in dirt from outside and destroy the vacuuming job, the cleanliness of the carpet, and the lack of a sampling from outside, the recent neighborhood and commute-loop depositings of fresh dog, cat and bird droppings and other various & sundry small-animal excreta, plus human hair, viruses, bacteria, sneeze snot from flu-ridden seven year olds, human urinary tract dried effluvia and fecal matter from unwashed hands on doorknobs, countertops, and the dishes off which you ate lunch downtown.
It’s horrible alright –the family house has to be straightened up, quick-cleaned, spot-cleaned, more or less continuously as the members move through their activities inside, and then do the deeper, more general cleanups such as weekly or monthly vacuuming and mopping, toilet & kitchen prep area sanitizing and so forth –unless of course the family wants to live among hordes of bacteria and and possible pathogens and piles of dirty dishes, dirty laundry, expired insects and the odd dessicated hamster,and/or parakeet sloughed skin cells rammed like railroad spikes between the woven fibers of bathroom towels, mucous-glued stalagtites of multi-hued boogers hanging underneath the furniture wherever the youngsters (and at times perhaps an oldster or two) hang out, and hair –oh good golly gobs and gobs of hair –everywhere.
Of course, if everyone would just go away, the empty house would stay oodles cleaner for oodles longer. There wouldn’t be anyone around to enjoy it though. That’s the conunumdrum rapt in a paired ox, inside an enema (to quote Churchill on Stalin or something).
No sooner than a consciousness notes the cleanliness, there goes the cleanliness again. The durn noticing-agent is almost certain to be a carbon critter –and sure to litter, backenforth twixt fridgenshitter, making mess he ain’t no quitter, lots to eat and time to fritter, love thy neighbor or die bitter
Well, those hats look pretty white form where I sit.
But, what if it does not matter at all?
The Left was using this as a hustle, they will find another.
Whatever makes anyone imagine that they can be shamed at all? Whatever makes anyone think that we live in a moment where a rational discussion of our real interests in the real world matters in the least? Do it matter at all if we are right, if all sanity and all facts and all reason and all decency are on our side?
Last night in the Senate we saw a failure of the democratic process–a great failure of the American system. Rational political processes are hanging on by a thread. So is any sort of valid and honorable public discourse. Just as we had GM openly (and quite unconstitutionally) handed over to the Unions, we have now seen completely open and unabashed bribery of elected officials out of the public purse. This was done without shame, and apparently without much outcry from the electorate.This chills to the very marrow of the bone. It maybe that we have passed the tipping point where we can no longer honestly and soberly address the gravest issues in the political and cultural public square.
Seems to me that if Obamacare gets through we can expect Cap and Trade, Card Check, Amnesty and Heaven knows what other monstrosities to all go through. Oh how they will be emboldened! This will be followed by gun control, control of the internet and crack downs in general on dissent in all its forms. Political opposition will be criminalize–it has almost reached that point now. The American middle class will be bled dry just like the American upper classes were bled dry by the New Dealers. They do intend to lord it over us permanently. They do intent to destroy us as a leading nation. The do intend the destruction of Western Civilization. This is almost within their grasp. A deep evil is afoot here, one that has not been seen n the West for centuries, and one this country has never seen. There is a dark and irrational ascendancy of vile and evil forces here and abroad. This is not politics as usual.
Why do the Democrats think they can get away with all of this? That is the real question.
I fear that people here are too sanguine about the whole business. The notions that it is inevitable that the political process or some sort of rational debate righting all of this may in fact be naive in the extreme. All one need do is look at the long process of tyranny and usurpation that has gone on all these decades in the EU.
This revelation of corruption, immorality, and indecency may not matter in the least. What then?
These vipers would rather rule in hell than serve in heaven, and, brother, what a hell it will be. It is hard to even consider them to be Americans. It is as though we are an defeated nation occupied by a conqueror.
We are in big trouble folks. At this hour on a Sunday morning it is hard for me to see our way out of it. We need to stop imagining that there will be some “revolution” in public opinion that will turn this around, or at least we need to consider the possibility that we have reached a radical breaking of our national political and cultural life. I doubt, at least this morning, that there will be a meaningful result out of elections 2010 and 2012. I doubt very much that there will be a radical political shift in this nation or that movements like the Tea Party movement will have lasting effect. Time is not on our side. The character and nature of Americans today are not on our side. I fully expect the dollar to be destroyed by 2012 and America reduced as a power. This is what our elites want, this is what their coreligionists the world over want. They look to get it.
We are ruled by villains and traitors, and the soap box and the ballot box may not be enough to set things right. Are there enough of us left to turn the tide? I truly wonder if there are.
How such a great and mighty civilization with such a bold record of extraordinary accomplishments and expeditionary people has been undone at the heights of its power and by some of its worst members, people who are not even mediocrities, is one of the great mysteries of history.
One would not have thought that it was possible.
Do it matter at all if we are right=Does it matter at all if we are right
(At the rate that we are descending, I may hvae had it right the first time)
Buddy # 206:
“Of course, if everyone would just go away, the empty house would stay oodles cleaner for oodles longer.”
Now, I am not kidding about this. Back around 1992 I read a quote on AGW that said:
“The problem would go away if everyone on the planet would just stop breathing for half an hour.”
Now, I don’t think the author really meant what that sounds like – that everyone should die – and I really doubt the science associated with that estimate, but it is hard to argue with the logic of the piece. After all, even if that action did not actually stop global warming there would be nobody left around to care.
Buddy@159,
Let’s not overlook “torchlight” – “heliography” – “smoke signals” -then “telegraphy” – as early, primitive means of sending information through space, faster than horseback.
Drill Baby Drill.
#207 Mongoose
Mongoose,
As you so elegantly say, this so very sad. I take some comfort that it is likely nothing new….I’m quite certain some Roman citizen spake the same 1800 years ago. It is hard to morn what is not lost…our fellow Americans stopped being Americans 40 years ago…
M
Mongoose, I agree with what you have said. I think this is WW3 without guns. We saved the world before and we will do it again. It won’t happen overnight but the American spirit will prevail. It will take a ‘Pearl Harbor’ to get all the American people to get involved though. No matter how bad it gets, we will come back from this.
Gore will not go up on RICO charges. Are you serious? The whole Democrat Party, the Unions and the MSM should be up on RICO charges. None of this will happen.
They will mostly likely hold onto both houses next year. The economy will get some sort of turn around, however temporary, and it will lift their political fortunes. This particular incident will be marginalized and quite forgotten. Never have we seen such adroit planning out of the Left. It is like a clockwork. This incident means nothing.
I doubt if we have an honest election ever again.
If they manage to keep their majorities next year, they look to acquire mere power than the Soviets ever did in Russia.
We are going to get some sort of an Energy Bill. Cap and Trade may be watered down a bit but in time they will get every bit of it implemented. Count on it. With Obamacare, Card Check, Amnesty and media control they will control every aspect of our lives. Our descendants will be serfs, and the few among them to wonder why will just detest us for letting it happen. Count on that too.
It will be a disaster. This is what they want.
To state the obvious, climate change was never about the climate; it was about complete control over the economy and everyone’s life. What a ocean of money will flow into their coffers. How do we unseat that?
That is what it is all about. The only solution is to throw the whole out of them out of power and into jail for the rest of their days. Fat chance of that.
If the American people really cared there would be a near permanent protest of millions of people in DC; there would be a national strike.
The electorate is either numbed or stupid.
Rico charges? More likely that they shut blogs like this down.
rashpotin@167,
Algore, is another great reason to reinstate waterboarding, no?
g/215; waterboard gore? have to get permission from the harbormaster first
Where does one go to purchase tar and feathers today?
We have not “spent hundred of years destroying the planet”. We are not destroying the planet. Period. What complete hogwash. And this come out of sucking mouths of urban liberals who would have a psychotic break if they were disconnected from the internet for 3 weeks.
It is just complete idiocy. These people should be forced to live “in nature” for a couple of years. We should drop them into remote Borneo or some such place and let them experience “The Planet” in its own terms. What barbarians!
The absolute, naked stupidity of it all. Few stupidities in history rival this sort of self-inflicted lunacy by an advanced civilization. Even the ancient Egyptians were not this superstitious. They did not seek to destroy themselves over beliefs that were this idiotic. It all makes the Pyramids of Giza look as rational an undertaking as the Hoover Dam by comparison.
This is the product of “progress”? This is the fruit of the so called sophistication and clarity of “The Modern Age”? I would rather bring back the Calvinists or the Merovingians. It is a form of barbarity and bestiality is what it is. I doubt that even Neolithic times saw such idiots so empowered. These cretins are not even avatars of prehistoric man or ancient pagans. They are avatars of all the lunatic and suicidal impulses and pathologies rejected by Man since he first stood erect.
What is wrong with us? Have we hit some wall, butted against some hard and mysterious law that dictates that a certain level of wealth, advance and well being inevitably lead to a civilization’s destruction? Is the Human at root truly that base? Do we hate the light that much?
We should be astride the world, not cowering before insane, demonic and lunatic gnomes like Obama, Gore and and the whole sick tranzi crowd.
What is wrong with us?
double post
And the band played on.
“In the final minutes of a daylong session, Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., accused Republicans of trying to stifle a historic debate the nation needed.”
“It is clear to me that doing nothing is not an option,” said Landrieu, who won $100 million in the legislation to help her state pay the costs of health care for the poor.
Still nary a word about this massive fraud except to say that the police will be investigating the hack. You would think the guy that loosed the server would be hoisted by the MSM, on the same pedestal as say Daniel Ellsberg. Probably will, only cause its better to hang him from.
Every time government gets involved in something us carbon critters get soiled. A pox on all of them. Big bulbous and puss filled like in Dune, only scaring these political and social engineers for all eternity as the worse kind of leper, the most vile of leech.
Here’s another fine mess they’ve gotten us into. Cleaning up this mess will take a massive effort.
Wadeusaf
buddy larsen,
We finally get one of the trolls to poke it’s nose out from under the bridge and you barbecue the creature.
You do know that you could be prosecuted under the coming “Not Really Endangered Or a Species Act” and the soon to be proposed “Call it Other Than a Bill of Attainder for Seditious Thought Crime Act?”
Mongoose,
I want very much to disagree with you and find holes in your argument. I really want to and can only hope now that the off year elections of 2009 were an indication that we might be saved by the mid-terms of 2010. That is a slender thread but it is all we now have.
Peer review by Peer Gynt, based on proxy data by ancient tree hugger rings.
This is the Science? What a bunch of maroons.
Wadeusaf
mongoose, i’d be as blue too, if the power we’ve been seeing had been built up organically, accretively, openly. but it wasn’t –it required two massive stolen marches –one the astonishing connivance of the national media and two the massive 2005-2007 CDS build in AIG.
both these movements were long in setup and required conspiratorial cooperation, and in neither of which did we fully realize what was happening until they smashed into our flanks in the summer of 2008.
In a sense, our most dangerous time was juuust before that –when these attacks were war-headed and smoking off the launchpads twards us and we didn’t know squat about ‘em.
Now we know, and barring a successful steal number three (probably next time involving a deal with a foreign power), we’ve already had both flanks rolled up and the fighting is now general and hand to hand. this stage would have to be called ‘ascent’ becuz ‘descent’ would have to be the while the two surprise attacks were coming at us as we were eating breakfast and telling jokes around our reasonable McCain campfires.
***
g/210; okeedoke, i have to give ya those –tho you could hardly send a misive to the lovely Beatrice thw serving maiden at the Olde Rumheade Inn, using the miltary yes-no (are they coming? Yes or no?”) of those systems. After all, lightning is as fast as lightning and it says about the same amount of info –”hi, i’m lightning” –
telegraphy is 1840-ish with Samuel Morse –and i think my 200 years ago places Morse in a position of distict antedatedness. harumph.
9pls pardon typing –am racing th editor with ths PS))
Buddy, were the two coordinated? Or just one taking advantage of the other. The first attack, which I think is best characterized as an attack on US currency, left a gaping hole for the other to take advantage.
I am not sure the first bunch were altogether certain that the second bunch was up to any chaotically coherent the action. They were wrong.
Wadeusaf
wdym/224; coordinated in the sense that no nefarious wallstreeter would fear being barbequed by the press to anywhere near the extent woodward & bernstein, say, or the Abu Graibists of the Above the Fold Fotos, would’ve done to them were not the financial crisis playing in every way to the obama machine’s wildly ambitious destruction/reformation agenda.
has anyone much heard of Dick Fuld or Joe Cassano? Not really much, you say, and that’s what i mean. You HAVE heard of daniel Ellsburg, and the Berrigan brothers, and all the bit parts of every detail of watergate, right? Weigh those crimes against what we see routinely today.
So, i guess that’s coordination in a passive sense –Mao’s fish in the sea coordination. damn, typing ‘Mao’ gives me tardive diskenesia, where’s the haldol, annie?
LotM/221; but but, i was trying to >agree< with him, that things are indeed always a mess. Including my post, which needed parentheses around the damn parakeet and reads wrong wifout it, fooey.
And I forgot to mention National Defense and now Health Care. These issues, along with the Environment should be non-political. And who cares what the majority thinks, either way. The majority, is rarely correct on anything. Sometimes its about leadership, the country will follow once they realize that their leaders have lead them in the right direction. Now is the time for leadership. If folks cant handle real progress, well then, that is why the almaighty invented other countries. Bless Our Country.
Mongoose, I agree with a lot of your observations. It’s important to point out the goals of the warmist movement; when you understand those it becomes a very rational movement with many precedents. The aspect of calling for huge sacrifices by the masses mirrors calls for penitence made by any religion seeking to motivate its followers – what good is a religion if it isn’t worth suffering for, after all? I think you can find historical examples of this in any religion and culture, *especially* when you realize that all of the true suffering is going to be felt only by the poor (always expendable to the elite) and Enemies of the religio/political regime.
And to understand the true motives, consider what will happen *not* to society, but to those who are pushing this into enactment – the political complex will obtain vast new sources of revenue worldwide, and obtain huge power over probably the most crucial segment of the economy. Without approval for energy usage, those in political power will be able to finally achieve absolute power over all industry in the supposedly “capitalistic” west. It truly is the old marxist dream made real through the use of one of those “opiates of the masses” that Marx decried. It is their fondest wish come true! And look at the rewards to the “scientists” who push this – they are on the verge of becoming the new High Priests of the age, with massive funding for life and with all the temporal power and control that comes with control of vast amounts of money and the Temples dedicated to the new religion. (Such as CRU)
These people are no more irrational than the High Priests of any age, whether it was Egypt, Babylon, or Medieval Europe. It’s just the same old game all over again.
These people are *very* rational. Evil, perhaps, but rational. They have everything to gain personally, and they care not a whit that humanity in general will suffer in the process. They won’t.
Now as to why we (meaning most people, but not the posters here, obviously) are so susceptible to this kind of thing is that we are arrogant enough to believe that we could never fall into the same old traps that ensnared our ancestors. Which means, of course, that if they’re just prettied up with some fresh bells and whistles and made to look brand new, we walk right into them.
P.T. Barnum was right about us. We’re suckers for a good show.
PC/226; re ‘the almaighty’ –is that God as a British sailor?
Buddy: I am not sure I know who “we” are that are now so aware of what is before us. With all due respect, I wonder if you know. Open eyes knew back then what was before us. Nothing that has transpired since 911, including the machinations of the the ’06 and the ’08 elections, suprised me so far as the Left and the Democrat Party goes, expect perhaps that they were held in check for a brief period. I suspect that this is a common sentiment on BC.
If “we” refers to us hereabouts on BC, then it is not true that we were taken by surprise and nor is it true that now we can somehow face the onslaught and turn the tide. But if “we” refers to the broad electorate at large, well I wonder if you may be fooling yourself (again, with all due respect). This is rather my point. Certainly I hope that I am wrong–nothing could make me happier to be wrong–but, at the moment at least, this seems but sentimentality and wishful thinking to me.
The damage at this moment is deep and lasting. I was ruminating this morning about my particular milieu and its general capacity for awareness and clear thinking. Granted I live in NYC, but nonetheless I concluded that 1 in 25 people I come in contact with have even the slightest clue what is going on, and only about 1 in 30 actually have any grasp at all of the nature of the war upon us and the tumult and ruination that must ensue. Perhaps only 60% total know that something is wrong, and the vast majority of these people have some vague notions that it is somehow the fault of the GOP or GWB. These are not good numbers.
One has to ask how so many people come by such idiotic beliefs that, prima facei, call forward the most simple of commonsensical rebukes. One waits, yet few come. One hardly need be all that intelligent or learned nor lurk at BC to grasp the realities of all of this, and in truth we have always relied on the common sense of the common man to steer us away form these dangers before. Why can we no longer count on this? These people are not red diapered conspirators, they come from average, red-blooded American homes. Simply, they should know better. Their forebears would be as perplex as I.
So I am less optimistic about this. It is horrid what is going on. I would have thought unthinkable up until a few years ago. Noting surprises me now though.
We have sunk low as a people. Once upon a time, the fishiest eye among us would not have been taken in.
You talk about these shocks being somehow trivial or artificial. I would contend that they are not trivial, and it does not matter if they are artificial or not. The Soviets and the ChiComs kept things going for generations through “crises” that were in great part not only contrived but downright fictitious. Latin American has been in the thrall of Marxist “populism” for almost a century. What “real crisis” enabled this? They sat out most of the travails and tumult of the 20th century. All most all of their “crises” were contrived by Leftist power seekers. What matters is the moral, spiritual, and intellectual capacity of our people, and the economic and political freedom to challenge tyranny.
This is precisely what collectivism destroys. It rarely returns once it is gone. Socialism has only been displaced from the outside, and mostly that outside force was the good old USA. Who will help us if we cannot help ourselves?
Perhaps already we have gone to far down this path and have thus been irrevocably and irrecoverably corrupted, degraded and enfeebled.
I have been riveted to this story for almost two days now. I was really heartened to see some folks from across the pond showing some level of skepticism. Could be I have been too hard on them ?My own “science guy”(husband) is practically speechless, although not shocked by the implied corruption involved. This sort of revelation doesn’t really require a big stretch of the imagination-being bought, or safe-guarding closely-held beliefs, or manipulation, isn’t anything new. Neither is the notion of government finding inventive ways to control the “pee-ons”.
The comments have been excellent, Mostly,very insightful-tstfl, smart, but knowledgeable as well. Buddy Larsen, I love your sense of humour.
Although the MSM may not yet know how to react, and are being cautious (they need to be-they often rush to judgement) if they don’t eventually comment, I feel that will lead to what many people will see as reaffirmation of habitual cover-ups and then, just further distrust of journalistic integrity(if that’s possible). In all fairness though, most folks just haven’t been educated in the sciences to the level that is needed to challenge this.Oh yeah, they can see that these particular people are hacks, but to question the entire premise ? That may be way too high expectations there.
For those of you who are worried about science being tarnished-nah. Just because this set of so-called scientists, read political guys, apparently have not so stellar characters and a disregard for ethics, we all have ample proof that science works How about that Hubble telescope ? We could go on here for some pages concerning the real benefits of science. Still, however this works out in the end, this incident has reinforced something in me-to continue questioning authoritative disciplines and expect answers-not the usual stall tactics used by people in postions of power, that of hoping it will all go away.
19. Geeze Louise:
Don’t forget the ‘portable nuclear power plants’ (google).
Folks keep asking about the ‘next big thing’ – these mini’s are it.
////
agreed. there are a lot of interesing uses for them. they can be used to cook oil out of shale–600 degrees. they can be also be used to cook water out of gypsum — 212 degrees. They can also make for an easily installed power source along a house diameter pipeline to pump fresh water inland 1000 miles from desalination plants on the coast.
mongoose, there’s certainly plenty of evidence for your apprehensions –and you may well be correct in the most dolorous of these. however –well, NYC you must admit is the Lion’s den and a crappy environ for anyone hoping to survive by something as slim as finding a sliver in the beast’s paw and pulling it out. i speak from central texas, where i could drive in to the closest cafe and find everybody in the joint –black, brown, yellow, and white, ranchowners and fencebuilders, bankers and ounce-dealers from UT heading back to campus from Matamoros or Nuevo Laredo, no matter –pretty well certain that the ground on which they stand and the future they have been working to build is being jerked away by strange & otherworldly communists from the northeastern seaboard and the great lakes rust belt.
and then there’s the talking heads on TV –and radio –unless thje regime plans a Night of the Long Knives against them, the American people are going to know whats going on –and already they are getting EXTREMELY and more to the point deeply and persistantly pissed off. And people like Art Laffer give me hope –a week or two ago he was asked how on earth an incoming new government would EVER repair the financial –the fiscal and monetary –damage done by this anti-Constitutionalist insurgency occupying the executive branch and the congressional committee chairs, and he laughed, and said, aw hell, give him a week with a congressional majority and he could turn every bad trend, and that once the direction changed everything in America would turn back positive.
of course, if 51% of the voters are public employee unionists wity all the patriotism of a California public employee, then mongoose is right, game over, man the lifeboats, women and children first, gangway, battle stations, dive dive dive!
Seems to me that if Obamacare gets through we can expect Cap and Trade, Card Check, Amnesty and Heaven knows what other monstrosities to all go through. Oh how they will be emboldened! This will be followed by gun control, control of the internet and crack downs in general on dissent in all its forms…What is wrong with us?
The emboldening thing is huge.
Harry and Nancy are the sort of personalities that have dug in for the long haul, including the potential of reconciliation/the nuclear option to pass “healthcare”. If the Senate & courts allow some 51% Senate vote to pass it, it seems there is little left of “the system” worth preserving. Buying off Mary Landrieu, beneath contempt.
I frequently wonder where the checks & balances are, the mechanisms that are supposed to inhibit runaway power grabs. Republicans protest, but the steamroller seems undeterred.
What is wrong with us is some 40 decades of not teaching the population its rights & responsibilities under the Constitution, the very meticulous creation of a confederacy of dunces (many Obamatrons can’t even name his Veep) and very devious, even amoral, ideologues happily stepping in to fill the void.
What is wrong with us is the paucity of statesmen and stateswomen.
(many good observations on this thread and even great writing)
wws: But we do not live in ancient Egypt. We live in an advanced, modern democracy with the most utilitarian, practical, sophisticated and cleared eyed political system heretofore created by mankind, and one tested over centuries by some of the worst adversity any nation has ever faced. This is my point. I was not mainly talking about the “cults of priests” but those in the electorate that are prey to this sort of barbaric mindset, but I would even argue that the “priestly castss” are acting irrationally and bestially even by the light of the most limited notions of their own self interest. They are perhaps even more irrationally suicidal than the “useful idiots” they manage to seduce.
And I would contend that even in the most superstitious of times, the “priestly elites” were not as irrational as the “Marxist priestly cast” for their counterparts in these other ages were not attempting to bring civilized life itself to a halt.
This was just precisely my point @ #218. I understand the temptation to make such a comparison, but I think that it breaks down under further analysis. They are in fact not “priests”, some are actually scientists. We are giving esteemed international prizes to these people. It is hardly just a bunch of fakers beating drums to ward of solar eclipses. If we are to start considering them to be “priests” then we have a reached a point were language or critical thinking themselves are of no avail. It would be as if the last 600 years never happened.
I contend that this is not that same old “priestly legerdemain” of days gone by, but of a whole new order of lunacy and ruination. Try as I might, I cannot find a historical precedent for it.
One cannot not even look to the fall of Rome–an inevitable and obvious reference and lodestone–for that decline took centuries and more or less follows the historical pattern of empires. We have unmanned ourselves in one generation and by our own hands, and that generation is only now staring into old age.
It is sheer lunacy to imagine that by willfully pulling down civilization one can benefit from it, particularly if one is in the elite, or even merely imagines that one is in the elite. This is a suicidal self-delusion of such vast and massive scale that it defies precedent, or so it seems to me. It is as if we have accidentally discovered some new “natural law” in the advance of man. We cannot be collectively trusted with liberty and wealth.
buddy larsen,
I intend to copy your evisceration of the moonbat to my blog.
“Burning Down the House” indeed. Sterile bunch are they?
One thing is particularly gratifying for me to see happening.
The number of, and intensity of, the hostile remarks aimed at our muslim commie president and the left in general have really increased over the past year..duh, he’s only been in office a bit less that a year.
I’ve exhausted myself over the past five years attempting to turn on the lightbulb. Now, I’m just darned happy that so many more citizens are fed up and have informed themselves on matters such as ACORN, the FED, and the dangers of having a muslim in the WH.
Now if I could just move some of you to confronting the PC crowd , right in their faces, in all different places, then we can really get it on, cause it’s coming , oh yeah, it’s coming and no amount of Ivy League badinage/sophistry is going to stop it. Just wait until unemployment hit’s 20% with the real number around 32% …. then we’ll have a face off and a purging of the commie left from our society. It will be ugly.
Mongoose@207
Your observations are the truth.
One would not have thought that it was possible.
Only to those “ones” who were not paying attention. Re-read “Atlas Shrugged.” You may disagree with her conclusions and prescriptions; but her 1958 novel is so prophecy-laden as to be astoundingly accurate on all fronts.
Conservative values have been losing the political battle forever and I’ve seen it happnen for over 50 years….we’re all guilty of moral compromise. Tell me again, What part of what I produce do I owe to anyone I don’t know?
Taxation is the root of all evil. It seems to me that tax-payments are the only viable weapon left for US, if we want to keep the revolution bloodless. Shutter down now, cause the longer we wait, the more cleanup/reconstruction required.
Elliot. The Hubble is not science, it is engineering, and, as far as astronomy goes, nothing is particularly new about it. Obviously, none here is say that these is no such thing as a valid discipline called “science”. They are talking about the modern “institutions” of science which have become corrupted by ideology and attendant politics. Perhaps you are missing the point
Buddy@223,
For me lovlies like Beatrice, I use carrier pigeons.
buddy, well surely I get you point about the respective differences between NYC and Texas, but I did own up to that in my post. Still, one would expect better out of those dashing exemplars of the “best and the brightest” walzting down Wall St. and Park Ave. now wouldn’t one? You would have not seen this sort of tomfoolery 50 years ago, at least not on this level of idiocy. Their sort is running things now (or are the first in line to get their pockets picked), so perhaps they are a meaningful sample so far as gauging final outcomes goes after all.
But certainly one hopes for more sanity in your neck of the wood. I will point out however, that Texas is in danger of becoming a blue state too, so I should not be all that jolly about Texas’ prospects either. The disease rages across the nation, is is merely more virulent in places such as NYC.
Nonetheless, I am certainly considering vacating to some island of sanity somewhere west of the Hudson, perhaps I should head out to the Loan Star State?
@ 82 buckets:
Your quotation from HuffPo is actually a direct copy of the “Real Climate” version:
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2009/11/the-cru-hack/
Typical libtards: one brain for all. We call it JOURNOLISM.
#186 – so get your mother expanded cable. And get her on the internet, and expose her to the truth. Keep talking to her, non-confrontationally. She votes – so do you. And right now, her vote cancels yours.
- – - –
My Mother watches only MSM, lacking expanded Cable. I told her about this, and her response was that AGW is real. She totally failed to understand the significance of this expose. So, I explained all the falsehoods about AGW… and she grew bored. For her, until the MSM says it’s so, it ain’t so. She’s very smart, but she’s also 79. Things are just ingrained. Maybe if I buy her expanded cable? Then she can tune into Fox. Nah. She’d probably end up watching CNN.
H/236; yep you sounded a little the wild-eyed prophet not so long ago. Then events inserted themselves in the places where before had simmered your predictions.
g/237; you are absolutely correct, imho, to K*I*S*S and on the taxation. As long as we continue to willingly, in effect, send 40, 50, 60, soon 90% (“it’s been there before,” as the potentates and viziers keep gloating) of our personal and family cash flows to a certain formerly gloriously shining city on the Atlantic seaboard that contains a self-selected legion of biureaucrats who –in return for their platinum compensation and diamond-encrusted (extremely early) retirement plans –lie in wait for your cash to arrive so they can fight first over how best to get away with how much they can steal and then second over what they want to do with whatever is left over.
Oh, for two new checkboxes on the forms; one for ”apply only to uniformed services and the national defense” and the other ”Sorry, going Galt with the remainder. Molon Lave!”
how many would check both boxes? More every day, you betcha!
(ht sarah Palin, ythe “you betcha!”)
LotM/235; hey thanks Lotm! –i’m flattered –in fact i just sent you a better version with a couple kreckshuns, to the addy in your blog profile –
g/239; drtat –forgot about carier pigeons. however, if you think about it, they are a lot like a horses –some small diffs in morphology but both firmly ensconced in the Animal kingdom –
MOngoose@234,
The fall of Rome: for that decline took centuries and more or less follows the historical pattern of empires. All before electronic banking.
The model you’re seeking is much like one describing the Borg.
CLIMATEGATE STORY makes the Washington Post in a big way. And don’t miss Charlie Martin’s piece on what it all means.
And Ann Althouse notes threats of violence against politically incorrect researchers.
Posted at 10:32 am by Glenn Reynolds
(( go see original for several hyperlinks in that text))
Mongoose, what do you mean, “The Hubble is not science, it is engineering, and, as far as astronomy goes, nothing is particularly new about it.”?
Well sure, the building of the scope is engineering, but tremendous science has been done with it, and our understanding of the universe is unbelievable different today than twenty years ago when the Hubble was launched. In fact, I know of no single period in time or single instrument, that has had more impact on the *science* done as a result.
We now have other satellites doing the same kind of work in other frequency ranges, and the new 8-meter ground-based scopes are even better for some optical purposes, and much of the “magic” is in digital processing of the images, can even be done with home telescopes (with AMAZING results!).
But to say anything like, “The Hubble is not science”, well, come on now!
(OK, *astronomy* is not an experimental activity so does not well fit some standard definitions of “science”, but it’s also one of the most amazingly succesful branches of science over the last hundred years, so it pretty much gets a pass on that!)
I noticed on the Big Government site the arrival of a renewed interest in RICO in regards to American participation in the Global Warming Scam for Money.
I once blogged that I visited a young scientist at that lab who told me that he did not believe in their models but he had to make a living. The biggest factor in the Earth’s temperature change is the cycle of the sun’s radiation produced by the physics that makes suns suns. We are now going down from the peak. The last trough was between 1600 and 1775.
An ex undergraduate student of mine is in the “green” business in Texas and New Mexico. His gang (partners) build wind and solar plants with money borrowed from banks who are expecting that his firm get the subsidies from the Feds. They are small players but the net worth is around 300 million. He admits that it is a racket but he told me “everything is a racket”. He sees himself to be a honest young man whose partners are crooks.
This is more that a tax. It will cause massive loss of productivity and even a more financial distortions that what happened to the big banks.
In the end we will have social unrest and then a nasty revolution aka the French Revolution.
We may be reaping extra dividends from the CRU Hack as this SNL skit (Must See To Believe) provides us the evidence that a PC bubble has burst.
http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/clips/china-cold-open/1178451/
(Crudeness warning)
If it is just the sun, and we are now past a peak, and the temperature now declines for the next twenty or fifty years, we’ll pretty soon be looking back on this all and laughing.
I give the odds of this as about 3:2.
OK, it’s not ALL the sun, there *must* be at least a tiny bit of AGW, but if it’s swamped by declining solar output, same deal.
Re: #’s 231 & 19: Very interesting, but when the articles say “portable” nuclear reactors, they mean “portable with a big truck and crane”. Almost all existing nuclear reactors are by this definition “portable”, in that all their components are trucked, railed or barged to the sites and assembled there. When I was at Bechtel, I worked with a group that figured out the transportation devices and routes for moving the reactor vessels and getting them from the transport trailers, (which had special cradles and very many rows of axles and wheels the spread the load to the roadbed), then getting them unloaded with huge cranes and then dragging them into the containment vessel and hoisting and setting them on their foundations.
The plants now contemplated are much smaller, but they are still heavy machinery. A good thing about this scheme is it avoids putting all our eggs in one basket. Our present approach is to have really big nuclear plants for economy of scale and to make them extremely unlikely to fail. Nothing is entirely fail safe, however, and by having more and smaller plants, you spread around the outages. You also get to use your power grid “both ways”, feeding and being fed from dispersed locations.
I don’t think these are going to be effective in single reactor installations, unless the containments are “hot-swappable”, which I don’t think is likely. But, if these systems speed up the permitting process and reduces the insurance risk, great news. If…
#249: OMG
I mean, seriously:
O
M
G
Jaw dropping, ain’t it Josh?
Gotta call my broker tomorrow at opening, and discuss.
All of which is not to mention the role of Deep Ecology as an emergent school of philosophical and quasi-religious thought placing the human species in a different and highly specific relationship with the physical environment, not completely removed from Cass Sunstein’s advocacy of animal rights.
The environmentalists did exactly what the cast of players did in 2008 – they over-reached. (Maybe they need an Environmental Systemic Risk Regulator.) Silent Spring came out in early 1960′s. Although industry fought it (at least in the press), the American public supported capital investment in clean air and water supplies. My view from the beginning was that the enviros blew it when they moved into the field of ecology. The stories are legion, but AGW surfaced as the pinnacle or poster child. Huge breath-taking technical over-reach,*** coupled with political over-reach, linking the tenuous new science with hugely expensive mitigation. That bird was probably never gonna fly. (Although old grudges can acquire lives outside of a sustainable context.)
My mental state is pessimistic, but I blame both parties equally (and those in the private sector who support and sustain the current bank-centric “too big to fail” economic model). The gaps are growing. The (Big Lebowski) dude will abide. I think not so much anymore. At a minimum, the pipers in hell are demanding payment for the sheer cynicism of the power play. Couple that with 2008 and reach your own conclusions. I have.
***systems analysis (including the sun!), multi-disciplinary inputs (well before universities were even offering integrated coursework in chem, bio, physics, math, not to mention the rather long list of hyphenated coursework available today), extensive data acquisition requiring time to collect adequate data sets and a reasonable spatial grid to capture performance variability as functions of scale, and to adequately define statistical distributions, and on and on until one’s eyes glaze over, as better described by others, but worth repeating because it’s not straightforward analytics – not by any means – and never will be.
It was just nuts from the very beginning to ever take charges of causation seriously (particularly when I knew that the data sets were limited – only later did I learn that they were also flawed, with simulation algorithms also called into question, and of course the ultimate authority of peer review in the scientific community.)
That doesn’t mean we should paint paradise pink with pastel-hued wind farms, nor does it mean that we shouldn’t scrub coal plants to keep the air breathable. What this episode means is that this is not the first time common sense was bled dry on the alter of radicalism.
Mongoose,
No, I get the point about the institutions, and yeah, hubble was built/engineered as an observational tool.
Matt (182)
Interesting observations – the last email is dated Nov 12th, and on Nov 13th McIntyre was informed his FOI request for the data was rejected. Could very well have been a disgruntled whistleblower within CRU outraged at the hiding of data.
MarcMalone
The trollbots seem to have regrouped. Not much of a counterattack, but there they are. Main trollpoints seem to be:
1. Change the subject, present a straw man argument: “We all know pollution is real. Why do you wingnuts hate clean air and clean water?”
2. Minimize the scope: “These emails are just from a small handfull of people. The vast majority of scientists, who all support AGW of course, are untainted by all this tempest in a teapot.”
Of course, both points are idiotic, and taken together point up one of the tragedies of the modern Watermellon environmental movement. Yes, pollution does happen, and humans can have significant negative impacts on their (usually local) environment, but historically the “cure” for man-made environmental damage has been prosperity. Rich people have the rescources to clean stuff up and to adopt more expensive alternatives to environmentally harmful operations. Poor people will happily gang-rape Gaia to feed the kids. Cap-n-trade algorism will create far more poor people and 30 years from now the rivers and lakes would start catching fire again. Real environmental science has brought us great benefits, but real science has been hijacked by the Warmingmongers like Mann, Briffa, etc. for their own aggrandizement. This handful of thugs have used tinhorn mafioso and political machine tactics to take over a rather genteel community that was unprepared to fight back.
Mongoose you are, so very unfortunately I fear, altogether too correct in your analysis. I have deluded myself for years by thinking we were collectively too intelligent to surrender completely to these false gods of the left and would ultimately find some path to societal salvation. Lamentably I have concluded that we are not that collectively intelligent or brave. Those who seem to grasp the nature of our disease, and exposure of the current CRU dishonesty vis-a-vis the AGW fraud is only a small symptomatic part, are still blind to or in denial of the larger pending disaster that confronts us and far too few in number as well, alas. It would be comforting to embrace the idea that some political awakening would occur in 2010 or 2012 that would correct our unrelenting march toward leftist slavery but denial is so much easier where certainty is lacking. We have become the Eloi. And while I suppose some attempted correction is still possible I hold out little optimism for a positive outcome. Ultimately, our future is ugly and potentially very, very violent. I have no confidence that I will die quietly in my sleep.
Josh 246 and Mongoose 238:
Great quote I read that applies to this:
“There is no such thing as science. There is only that which rapidly becomes practical engineering and the remainder, which consists of unfounded speculation.”
RE: er@251: The excitement is over the Hyperion Mini Nuclear Reactor, as described below and elsewhere (perhaps mini in reference to capacity is a better descriptor rather than portability of physical size):
http://www.nextenergynews.com/news1/next-energy-news5.28.08c.html
Regarding the wisdom of decentralizing utility networks, I personally favor the trend for reasons informed by technology, markets, philosophy, and security.
RWE: that’s unnecessarily pessimistic.
Certainly, science is more difficult, more contingent, and just plain sloppier, than the average guy knows – and the average guy is much better informed than, say, Al Gore. And if there’s a scientific fact, someone will use it to make a buck, or fetch his beer.
But on the one hand, even the pragamatic stuff is speculation, it’s just the very *best* speculation. And obscure stuff, like plate tectonics or supernova physics, can be darned certain, but not very useful on a daily basis.
Science is an activity that spins off lots of benefits, but a lot of science goes to maintaining its own infrastructure, I suppose. It’s valid, just not flashy. And yes, always subject to revision. Like anything, for the most part the big ideas are mostly stable and the little stuff gets changed easily. When a big idea gets changed, it’s big news. When a big change is predicted, it requires big foundation.
… I’m just rambling now.
I don’t think it’s science that is under threat these days, it’s a more general problem with rationality. Saw the ABCNews Stephanopoulos show this morning, and some Democratic rep, one Wasserman-Schultz from Florida, was the brainlessness poster child.
http://wassermanschultz.house.gov/
http://abcnews.go.com/ThisWeek/Politics/transcript-health-care-debate/story?id=9147946
She insisted that getting the profit-driven insurance companies out of the equation was key, and argued with everyone, including Stephanopuolos, that clear sentences in the bill didn’t mean what they said. She could not understand a clear, declarative sentence in her native language, if it conflicted with what she hoped it meant.
The problem here isn’t science, it’s much broader – when such useless twits get elected to public office. Oh, wait a minute, I forgot for a moment who our current president is. Never mind, and please pass the whiskey.
Gawd, I just looked at W-S’s wikipedia page, what a piece of work, suddenly I’m feeling proud of my own rep, Henry Waxmoustache.
I’d rather have this bottle here in front of me, ….
1. Change the subject, present a straw man argument: “We all know pollution is real. Why do you wingnuts hate clean air and clean water?”
Response: I know the toilet is real, and when to flush it. Do you?
2. Minimize the scope: “These emails are just from a small handfull of people. The vast majority of scientists, who all support AGW of course, are untainted by all this tempest in a teapot.”
I suppose if we looked more closely like this at all the AGW scientists, they’d all be frauds, if that’s your point, then I agree!
Is it just my paranoia or is the whole global warming crowd starting to look like a company in Gramsci’s “long march” through the institutions of Western civilization.
No toad, that is exactly what it is.
Wadeusaf: @97
Wade, over the weekend they’ve been rustling up all the letters needed for the crystal ball. It’s becoming clearer shortly now…. AGW… Too.Large.To.Fa…
They are searching for who has the needed i and l, and all they can come up with are blasted ks and es (as in “too large to fake.”)
There were just so many of the latter letters still unused from their old, anti-conspiratorial line of defense, that the revelations have caught them short of what they need.
All is not lost though. Expect to find that the conspiracy is (surely) on the part of the deniers, not the promoters of AGW. Hence the full onslaught to track down the hacker instead of the fraudsters.
#17 Lawrence: Threadwinner! No need to read further!
re: #175,
Fallen Angels by Pournell, Niven, and Flynn is a free online book: http://www.webscription.net/10.1125/Baen/067172052X/067172052X.htm
Enjoy.
What this is actually telling us is that our own gov’t is worse than the Russians ever were in the height of the America must perish days of Krushchev (sp). The Russian government is actually working behind the scenes to see that the progressive movement fails. Ironically, the progressive movement has been more clandestine and more carefully planned out than the entire history of Eastern European communism, falling more in line with Asian Communism and long term planning. The Russians are actually our friends these days. Not the friends of the US gov’t, the friends of the US people. Russia is our trump card against China, which is now climbing it’s perch in order to watch and control the subservient western “democracies”. May you live in interesting times…..
O’Brian to Winston Smith:
“We’ll cut the links between child and parent, and between man and man, and between man and woman… In the future there will be no wives and no friends. Children will be taken from their mothers at birth as one takes eggs from a hen… Procreation will be an annual formality like the renewal of a ration card. We shall abolish the orgasm… There will be no loyalty except loyalty toward the Party. There will be no love except the love of Big Brother… There will be no heart, no literature, no science. When we are omnipotent we shall have no more need of science.” George Orwell, 1984
GL@261: Yup, I saw that, although not that link. Note in the second picture on the page, the nuclear battery” is a small part of the total complex, but the steam generator and cooling systems would not need to be changed when the “battery” was.
I think you would probably want to install the thing in an underground reinforced waterproof vault, or multiple units in multiple vaults. I’m a little surprised they are only claiming a five year life for the “battery”. I think that if you only had a single “battery” at a site (serving 25,000 homes), you would want a second vault beside the first so you could set anew “battery” before you disconnected and removed the first one. I think a virtue of this system would be that the “batteries” would be small enough to be road portable, so you could ship them back “to the factory” to be refuelled.
Cute idea: I hope it works out. “Let a thousand flowers bloom, let a thousand schools contend”.
This whole thing misses the point. Whether man-made global warming is real or not is irrelevant. We NEED to create alternative energies for the sole purpose that our current system gives money to the people who hate us.
258. MikeD
It doesn’t sound to me like you are the type who would die in their sleep. You’ll be on the ramparts fighting with the rest of us brave souls.
It is interesting to note however that Revolutionary War expert and prize winning biographer James Ellis noted in several of his works that groups that did a lot of jaw-jaw about the mean old nasty Brits, The Sons of Liberty, rarely ,if ever left the tavern during the war. It was what became known as the “rabble in arms” that actually did the fighting under some very brave leadership.
I believe one of my biggest failings is believing our fellow countrymen will chose to defend liberty rather than accept serfdom. I said I do see more outrage but it isn’t anywhere near the level it should be given what obama, the FED, Fannie & Freddie,the commie democrats and the likes of Goldman Sachs are shovelling all over us already. Unfortunately in far too many areas we have indeed become a nation of sheep.
We do not have a nation of brave men any longer. Metro and girly men we have in surplus.
“The largest wind farm in the EU [Denmark] only gets 18% of it’s potential output on it’s ‘best day’.”
I believe of the 18%, the Danes get to use about 9%. The EURefendum has been following this for some time “At times of peak capacity, the power cannot be absorbed into the grid so it is exported. Much of the power goes a system of inter-connectors, mainly to Norway which has a high proportion of hydro-power and therefore is able to shut down its own capacity very rapidly in order to take the Danish feed.”
The Norwegians are the real beneficiaries of the Danish windfarms as they pay a pittance compared to what the Danes pay.
er@272: Cute idea: I hope it works out. “Let a thousand flowers bloom, let a thousand schools contend”.
Cute.
Generating sparks, are we?
Renewables are to portable nukes as pastels are to black boxes.
Get back to me in five years.
Habu/274
There certainly seems to be little or no Revolutionary spirit in the Republican Party leadership; few voices speaking out about the un-Constitutional state of our bloated (Marxist &/or Fascist) Federal Government. If the Republicans continue to be cowards, the American Revolution; if it is to be saved, will be saved by the States and the people. The Tenth Amendment; an essential part of our Bill of Rights, is the anti-Marxist / anti-Fascist amendment.
AP:
It is You that misses the point.
The alternative energy sources of wind and solar do NOTHING to reduce our need for oil. They can only replace coal, natural gas, and nuclear plants and we have no problem with building and fueling such power plants.
Less than 1% of our oil is used to generate electricity. And even if we decided to quit using that much, we could easily replace it with other hydrocarbon fuels or nuclear. Diesel and gasoline generators are used only where there are no other sources, or none with the required reliability. And Wind and Solar are about as unreliable as it gets.
If we want to replace petroleum burning vehicles, then we need better technology – and wind and solar does not enter into that equation to any meaningful degree. Neither does biodiesel to any significant degree – that could change but I doubt it.
If we develop superbatteries and high temperature superconductors and electric cars really take off as a result, we do not need wind and solar to meet that demands. In fact wind and solar costs more than the alternatives. They represent trendy “boutique” energy sources and not real major industrial alternatives except possibly in very limited areas and applications.
Josh @ 262
Wasserman-Schultz has long been recognized as stupid, even for a legislator… a moron among idiots, as it were
I would think James Delingpole is being optimistic if he thinks this revelation will have a major effect on the debate.
Delingpole should know that the EU countries environmental law emanates from the EU parliament. These countries are unable to change the EU laws.
Because of the way EU legislation is developed it is almost impossible the get change from the ground up. Changes have to come from the executive and whoever heard of an unaccountable executive proposing changes to its policies.
#201 Angel Martin:
#132 Tantaafl
Evan Thomas after the Duke “rape” case collapsed:
“The narrative was right but the facts were wrong”.
Narratives-as-templates operate as such by reason of incorporating standardized notions of (1) human types (read: motivations); (2) fundamental oppositional value categories (good vs. evil; wealthy vs. poor; male vs. female; west vs. east; death vs. life, etc. etc.); (3) social uses (esthetic vs. utilitarian; power-gaining vs. power-losing; beautiful vs. ugly; desireable vs. undesireable)”; and so on.
When Structuralism was big in literary analysis during the last quarter of the last century, “narratology” was invented which consisted of a more-or-less exhaustive paradigm of such classes and combinations of classes, out of which would come a “grammar” of narratives that could at least aspire to universal applicability, i.e., predictive plausibility if not certainty.
“The narrative is right” is like saying “I believe the Jesus story is the ‘right one’ for reflecting ‘things as they are.’” In the Duke case, the “narrative” vs. “the facts” is a matter of the right personae (white wealthy heterosexual athletic males vs. black, downtrodden poor females) engaged in the “right” interaction (here: rape, exploitation, dominance, master-slave relation, and thingys like that).
The trouble was, of course, that the “facts” were “wrong,” and indeed belonged to another narrative pattern entirely: white athletic heterosexual males trashed by multi-colored academic (i.e., non-athletic) hatemongers with advanced degrees in politicized academic areas that are partly dedicated to hating white males, etc. in behalf of black males and in this case black females.
What Evan Thomas was saying was that the attacks on the Duke lacrosse players was the “right” narrative given the various paradigms in play, which comes down to saying that “this” narrative is only one.
But as I suggest here, Thomas got the wrong narrative after all.
277. Storm-Rider
Yep. Heck, StormRider you can see it right here. One would think that my comments would draw a response out of this population, especially after the main thread has been beaten to a pulp and jawed over for days, but nope.
It doesn’t surprise me. Oh, there are those who will offer the follow-the-thread-I’m- just-being-a-good-contributor but that is just so much buncombe.
Of course the composition of this thread does not lend itself to bellicose talk. Too many in this group couldn’t identify which end of the rifle the bullet comes out of, nor do they want to know. However they sure want protection if trouble shows up. Huh.
Here’s a bit of what I mentioned earlier:
You may have missed it in the mainstream news media, but statistical societal indicators are reading red across the board. Let’s look at some vital statistics and facts:
* The inequality of wealth in the United States is soaring to an unprecedented level. The US already had the highest inequality of wealth in the industrialized world prior to the financial crisis. Since the crisis, which has hit the middle class and poor much harder than the top one percent, the gap between the top one percent and the remaining 99% of the US population has grown to a record high.
* As the stock market went over the 10,000 mark and just surged to a 13-month high, the three big banks that took taxpayer money and benefited the most from the government bailout have just set a new global economic record by issuing $30 billion in annual bonuses this year, “up 60 percent from last year.” Bloomberg reported: “Goldman Sachs, the most profitable securities firm in Wall Street history, had a record profit in the first nine months of this year and set aside $16.7 billion for compensation expenses.” Goldman Sachs is on pace for the best year in the firm’s history, they are also benefiting by only paying 1% in taxes.
And you can find Goldman Sach’s former employees all over our government and the bastard central bank, the FED…..but so many just take it , going to their jobs and praying the croc will eat them last.
Habu, what a lot of people don’t realize too is that Goldman’s bonuses were mostly paid out in stock, rather than in cash as usual, last year during the financial crisis. The idea being that they needed to take more equity risk. In the meantime, GS stock has tripled. Granted, these people took the market risk but no one at Goldman is going hungry this Christmas. They never really missed a meal.
The (Big Lebowski) dude will abide.
Or maybe not.
Time to get out of our intellectual housecoats, drop the weed, and get “medieval on their @sses.”
283. steeple
A bit more info:
The profits of the economic elite are “now underwritten by taxpayers with $23.7 trillion worth of national wealth.”
As the looting is occurring at the top, the US middle class is just beginning to collapse.
* Workers between the age of 55 – 60, who have worked for 20 – 29 years, have lost an average of 25 percent off their 401k. During the same time period, the wealth of the 400 richest Americans went up by $30 billion, bringing their total combined wealth to $1.57 trillion.
* Home foreclosure filings “hit a record high in the third quarter [of 2009]… They were the worst three months of all time… 937,840 homes received a foreclosure letter” in this three month period. “3.4 million homes are expected to enter foreclosure by year’s end, with some experts estimating that next year will be even worse.”
President Obama has enacted a $75 billion taxpayer funded program that has been a spectacular failure in stemming the foreclosure crisis and has proven to be another massive waste of billions of taxpayer dollars.
* 25 Million people are unemployed or underemployed.
This means we have 25 million people who urgently need to increase their income, and they’re quickly running out of options. The unemployment rate is expected to rise further and remain high for several years. “The president’s chief economic adviser warned that the nation’s unemployment rate could stay ‘unacceptably high’ for years to come.”
The NY Times reports: “Americans now confront a job market that is bleaker than ever in the current recession, and employment prospects are still getting worse. Job seekers now outnumber openings six to one, the worst ratio since the government began tracking…” As this ratio continues to grow, it will lead to a further reduction in wages – average worker wages have seen a sharp decline over the past year.
Economist Nouriel Roubini, a man who accurately predicted our current crisis, just reported on unemployment stating: “Think the worst is over? Wrong. Conditions in the U.S. labor markets are awful and worsening…. So we can expect that job losses will continue until the end of 2010 at the earliest. In other words, if you are unemployed and looking for work and just waiting for the economy to turn the corner, you had better hunker down. All the economic numbers suggest this will take a while. The jobs just are not coming back.”
* As the few elite banks thrive, there have been 123 US bank failures thus far this year. Recently, three banks that the government declared “healthy” and gave taxpayer money to have folded. The Wall Street Journal reports: “U.S. regulators have seized or threatened at least 27 banks that got capital infusions from the Troubled Asset Relief Program, including some lenders government officials knew were troubled when they awarded the money. The troubles put taxpayers at risk of losing as much as $5.1 billion invested in the banks since TARP was launched in October 2008.”
* As bankruptcies surge across the board, 10 US states are on the verge of bankruptcy, with several ready to declare a financial state of emergency. California, Arizona, Florida, Illinois, Michigan, Nevada, New Jersey, Oregon, Rhode Island and Wisconsin are all “barreling toward economic disaster, raising the likelihood of higher taxes, more government layoffs and deep cuts in services.”
This is occurring at a time when the “federal budget deficit for the fiscal year that just ended was $1.4 trillion, nearly a trillion dollars greater than the year before.” In total, “US public debt topped 12 trillion dollars for the first time in history… The public debt topped 10 trillion dollars in September 2008. The debt is quickly approaching the statutory limit of 12.104 trillion dollars, meaning Congress would have to raise the ceiling to prevent a shutdown of government operations.”
Economist Dean Baker explains the risk of running such a large deficit: “The debt limit must be increased at regular intervals in order to allow the government to function normally because the government is currently operating at a deficit. If the debt limit is not passed, then at some point the government will not be able to pay workers and contractors. It won’t be able to send out Social Security checks or make payments for Medicaid and unemployment insurance to state governments. And, it will not be able to make interest payments on government bonds, effectively defaulting on the national debt.”
Needless to say, all of this will make life drastically more difficult for citizens of the US. As the middle class continues on the path of economic decline, the number of citizens living in poverty has already hit an all time high.
* Although the government’s official figure tries to low-ball the number, 47.4 Million US citizens live in poverty, and the US poverty rate is the highest in the industrialized world.
Predictably, homelessness is rising at an increased rate as well. “The US government does not tally the numbers but interested organisations say that more than 3 million people were homeless at some point over the past year…. The fastest growing segment of the homeless population is families with children.”
Children have been hit especially hard by the economic crisis:
* 50% of US children, one out of every two children, will need to use food stamps to eat.
One out of every two children in the United States of America will need to use a food stamp… to EAT!
If you didn’t think starvation was a serious threat in the US, just read this new Washington Post report: “The nation’s economic crisis has catapulted the number of Americans who lack enough food to the highest level since the government has been keeping track, according to a new federal report, which shows that nearly 50 million people – including almost one child in four – struggled last year to get enough to eat… Several independent advocates and policy experts on hunger said that they had been bracing for the latest report to show deepening shortages, but that they were nevertheless astonished by how much the problem has worsened. ‘This is unthinkable. It’s like we are living in a Third World country,’ said Vicki Escarra, president of Feeding America.”
The United States Department of Agriculture released these findings in a study that was completed in December 2008, which means these numbers don’t take into account the millions more unemployed throughout 2009. The numbers of people living in poverty and struggling to eat has seen a significant increase since then.
This a national tragedy. But it gets much worse
* In 2008, according to the Census Bureau, the number of US citizens without healthcare grew to a record 46.3 million. “The new figures, however, understate the severity of the economic downturn because a large portion of nation’s job losses and unemployment rate increases occurred after the Census survey data was collected in March as part of the annual Current Population Survey.”
* Lack of health Insurance has caused 45,000 preventable U.S. citizen deaths in the past year. The American Journal of Medicine recently released a study that stated “Nearly two out of three bankruptcies stem from medical bills, and even people with health insurance face financial disaster if they experience a serious illness.”
A Johns Hopkins Children’s Center study reported that 17,000 children have died due to lack of healthcare. You can also add in a recent report that revealed that 2,266 US Veterans have died in 2008 due to lack of insurance.
The 50 million now uninsured and the 45,000 preventable deaths per year statistics are expected to drastically rise over the next few years. As the Senate continues to strip meaningful amendments from a healthcare bill that wouldn’t even take effect until 2013, it has become clear that, despite the media hype, the healthcare bill is going to fall far short of meaningful reform and continue to rig the game in favor of large insurance company profits at the expense of the US population. With the highest cost healthcare in the world, current trends will continue and much needed change is not on the horizon.
Never before has the United States had so many citizens with so little means, little to no income and heavy debt. Debt and costs of living have now shackled US citizens just as it has shackled people throughout the world. The economic hit men have now hit the US as well and millions of US citizens are now effectively sentenced to a slow death.
Glenn Reynolds says (hat tip to Powerline):
I think Obama’s “charisma” was based on voter narcissism — people excited not just about electing a black President, but about themselves, voting for a black President. Now that’s over, and they’re stuck just with him, and emptied of their own narcissism there’s not much there to fill out the suit. As Ann Althouse says, “I think what Obama seems to have become, he always was.”
This whole thing misses the point. Whether man-made global warming is real or not is irrelevant.
Wha…?
One of two things (or a combination thereof) is at work here: (1) outright fraud, or (2) FUBARism. Neither one is remotely irrelevant, given the depth of permeation of the AGW meme … the massive media buy-in, the cramming of AGW teaching into school curricula, the engineering of massive transfers of wealth via suffocating regulations and international treaties, the opportunities for graft and corruption, and, last but not least, that small matter of the government running roughshod over individual liberty (wherein WFB’s joke about the progressives in government reaching into your shower to adjust the water temperature doesn’t seem so farfetched anymore).
Whether malevolent or benignly intentioned, the results come out similarly, and the whole scheme stinks like what could well be the biggest fuster-cluck of the poor & middle class by the elites in the history of mankind.
Please don’t forget the connections. The people who have effectively engineered America’s heavy dependence on foreign oil, via the suppression (political, regulatory, propagandistic, etc.) of domestic drilling & refinery construction the last 30+ years, are EXACTLY the same people pushing the AGW meme.
It’s a classic pincer movement in the energy war. They have been crippling the United States by effectively crushing us from two sides.
But if a hole can be blown in the AGW flank … this would be a severe setback for their agenda.
“Why do they hate us so?” The United States is Prometheus, and the fire we stole from those who would be gods is individual liberty. The sovereignty of We the People. Prometheus’ punishment for giving the gift of fire to humanity was to be bound and tormented. What would Prometheus Unbound look like? Would be nice to see it.
I think Obama’s “charisma” was based on voter narcissism — people excited not just about electing a black President, but about themselves, voting for a black President…
Unemployment is at 10.2 percent. It gets over eleven and we go into an election cycle, Dems won’t be able to scrape those OBAMA/BIDEN bumper stickers off fast enough. Good thing, too, you’re not allowed to divide by zero.
Stock analyst is getting cold feet(sic) on AGW fraud.
Remember the old adage: Money is panic.
These words tell us that the AGW fraud is a false religion, in particular the word “sacrilege”:
“What I am writing here may be sacrilege to some people.”
More: “but what happens if Mr. Market decides to price in the possibility of global cooling?”
…-
“Global Cooling?
I woke up on Saturday to see the New York Times headline Hacked E-Mail Is New Fodder for Climate Dispute. The New York Times headline editor was restrained while others were far more outraged. As an example, Mish’s blog stated the story as:
It’s now official. Much of the hype about global warming is nothing but a complete scam.
Thanks to hackers (or an insider) who broke into The University of East Anglia’s Climatic Research Unit (CRU) and downloaded 156 megaybytes of data including extremely damaging emails, we now know that data supporting the global warming thesis was completely fabricated.
He went on to detail some of the incriminating emails in his blog post about the alleged conspiracy to fudge the data. You can also see the emails here.
Sunspots and global cooling
Before the news of this hacker break-in, there had already been skepticism about the global warming thesis. I had previously speculated on this topic in a post:
What I am writing here may be sacrilege to some people. The popular consensus about Global Warming is that the Earth is undergoing a warming period caused by the effects of industrialization. However, there is another view that global warming is caused by solar activity – sunspots and solar winds.
Currently, the forecast for the latest solar cycle is that it’s late. Such extended cycles have been associated with cooling periods such as the Little Ice Age experienced a few hundred years ago. Indeed, there have been reports that there is more ice in the Arctic (yes – it’s only one data point) and there has been some hand wringing among the scientists about the timing of the solar cycle.”
“I am not investing based on global cooling as my base case, but what happens if Mr. Market decides to price in the possibility of global cooling?
What do you think that would do to energy demand if the Earth were to undergo a period of global cooling?
What are the possible effects on food production and commodity prices?
Just thinking out loud…”
http://www.istockanalyst.com/article/viewarticle/articleid/3656847
Robert Riechhhhhhh was on Stephanpoulos this morning, moaning that the stimulus package was too small, we should have allocated more money – which mystifies me, since we haven’t spend 3/4 of the money allocated so far.
Is anybody making sense at all?
Very late to this discussion. But our technology has accelerated history. What took Rome centuries and took the Hapsburgs decades is happening very quickly for us. As David Gelernter wrote in “Drawing a Life” it takes only seconds to destroy what takes a lifetime to create.
A deeper look reveals that the leftism of the 1920′s and 30′s took a pause in the 40′s and 50′s. It rose again in the 60′s, paused in the 80′s, was latent in the 90′s, and now has achieved something close to victory. All is not yet lost but the clock is ticking and it is getting harder and harder to reverse the trend.
People get used to serfdom. We are near the point at which less than half of the voting population pays meaningful taxes. Obamacare will get people even more used to depending on the government. And we are simply paralyzed (a few Tea Party rallies aside) by the sheer ruthlessness of those now in power.
Their useful idiots include the MSM of course, and a host of corrupt scientists (science itself is still good if and when it is truthful). But we are sowing the crop of at least two, probably four generations of a degradation of logic and an disregard of truth (at least honesty of data). Deconstruction and relativism reigns.
And our comfort has made us more fearful of minor risks. We can’t even play dodge ball lest Junior get hit by a spheroid or have his or her feelings hurt. We punish the many to assure that the few who cannot protect themselves remain safe — like warnings about falling off ladders or hitting your thumb with a hammer, or not to hold hot coffee between your legs while driving.
I have asked in previous comments, “Is this how Dark Ages start?” I want to believe that we are not yet beyond the point of no return but the clock is definitely ticking.
Will ours be the first American generation whose children will have it much worse than we did?
maz2 #189
The hack of the AWG emails has not yet affected the cap and trade market on Intrade, for 2010 and 2011.
http://www.intrade.com/jsp/intrade/contractSearch/index.jsp?clsID=78&grpID=9605
I think it will take a few days, or even weeks before the full impact of this is felt.
Batman, come on, don’t exemplify exactly what you’re criticizing, it’s not the ruthlessness of those in power now, that’s still modest, as world political history goes. But, their *stupidity* is truly record-setting, at least in the modern age.
… well, I suppose, other candidates for mondo stupido are not really that hard to come by, I guess I don’t what to exemplify what you’re criticizing either …
Habu, what stands behind those points you make are changes that are structural and international in scope and power. The whole thing is larger than who happens to sit in the WH or on the Hill. They are, in effect, the conditions that obtain in most of the world: Parasitic elites that sit atop an internal economy and are gatekeepers and rent seekers for international access to internal markets. Note that these elites are part Socialist and part Corporatist. It is not purely ideological–ideology is more of a technique used maintain position and power than it is a basis of being. Heretofore we have avoided these conditions, or at least had the “design margin” to accomodate such actors without bringing it all down.
Our elites conspire now to make America like the rest of the world, and they to it with a unfettered alacrity and glee.
Ultimately, “globalism” will have to be rejected if we are to return to prosperity and liberty. Why? Productive wealth creation. This means broad opportunity in small and medium sized manufacturing. Yes, there is a technology component, but it is tertiary. Adam smith had it right: a pyramid formed of agriculture, manufacturing and services (including technology). The root of our technology advance has been the push during the Cold War for military and cultural dominance. Already, not even two decades out of it, this drive has been leached out of our “people”, if indeed Americans can still be thought of as a “people”, which is a proposition I am increasingly dubious about.
We cannot prosper in a world where one has to have a PhD from one of 20 Universities in order to be a productive and successful entrepreneur. We cannot be a technical leader unless we seek full leadership in the world across the board, and this means a return to profound military dominance.
Thus there has to be a rebirth of Commerce and national identity. Not a “new” economic order–there is no such thing as a service economy and there cannot be broad prosperity with an internationally “rationalized “World economy”–but a return to what we know is true and right.
Culturally,, this means a rejection of the Liberal culture that has become the mainstream culture of our nation and civilization. Economically, this means turning back on economic globalism.
This will be a hard nut to crack, as both the elites, and organized labor and the various clients of both seek to suck rents out of any ambitious and aggressive entrepreneurs, and both seek a mindless and supine populus. This is just the crisis that the EU, Latin America and, to a degree, even Russia now suffers from. There appears no hope for them short of cataclysm. If we do not turn back soon, so too will be our fate.
As I have often said–no doubt to the point of boorishness–turning this around chiefly depends on our national character and nature.
As You have noted above, this seems not to be what it was.
It will take a radical change of America to right all of this: a true rebirth.
It would take much forbearance, fortitude and courage by those who would undertake this for there would be much displacement and hardship for those who have not the heart or mind for it. Nearly half of our “people” are engaged in anything approaching productive labor.
Perhaps it is true that it requires only a third of us to change matters, but I, like you, an aghast and appalled at the lack of reaction to all that has transpired in the last eight years. I would have thought the American people would never have stood for the radical and causal casting off of all of our history,traditions and values. I am sure that this would have not happened even 20 years ago.
What has changed? The boomer now come fully into power, that is what has changed.
Looks grim to me. Freedom is hard work. Liberty is hard work, and that include economic liberty. Do we want to be free?
This is what I was touching apon in my posts above.
It is beyond an “attitude” or a lack of “political will”, it is something deep within the national character, deep within our souls. Are we who we once were?
And if we are not, for those of us who remain of the old lines, what then for us?
Josh @293 — of course you are right that the current crowd is not ruthless in comparison to Mao or Stalin or Genghis Khan. And I’m sure you can find examples in American History here and there of those in power using it in unprecedented ways. I plead guilty to seeing the current situation in terms of my political lifetime (started as a young kid when I heard Truman dismissing MacArthur, on to Edward R. Murrow interviewing Joseph McCarthy, etc.)
However, I do not think that those currently in power, Obama, Emmanuel, Pelosi, are stupid. I think they are doing exactly what they intend to do in whatever ways they think they can get away with.
That what they are doing is extremely foolish from the point of view of those who value American Exceptionalism and Western Civilization, is obvious. But they are not stupid. They WANT to devalue America and set back Western Civilization and are going about it rather smartly and effectively.
Foolish — yes; stupid — no. Ruthless? — well I take your point. Not as bad as Mao or Stalin but pretty far in recent American terms. And most of us are either colluding or watching with disbelief or maybe disinterest until it is too late.
But I still cherish the belief that it is not (yet) too late.
Josh: hogwash, they are one of the most ruthless elites in history.
They are tearing down the most successful civilization of history for their own lusts.
They are destroy the hard work of generations in a handful of year.
we have not yet got to the point where a Mao or a Stalin can step in and lead us to the slaughterhouse, but that moment wlll arrive soon enough. Collectivism is a rejection of our history and Cilivization. It will always result in barbarity.
Let us not confuse bloodiness with ruthlessness, and let us not confuse the conditions of Russia or China back then with our conditions at this particular moment in time.
It take a particularly vile ruthlessness to plunder one’s own nation at the height of its prosperity and to betray it to its mortal enemies. It takes a deep contempt to steal for generation their true legacy and birthright. To plot over it and keep at it for decade after decade shows a level of ruthlessness few elites has every possessed.
They are about the overturning and destruction of Western civilization, and yes, it may well result in a new Dark Age. Cannot get more ruthless than that.
Note this AP story TODAY – 11/22/09 at 2:54 pm:
“Warming’s impacts sped up,..worsened since Kyoto” by Seth Borenstein, AP Science Writer -
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/sci_climate_09_post_kyoto
Has he been offline for three days?!
Habu:
It’s always a small fraction of the population that will go to extremes as long as things are even remotely tolerable. “more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable”, as the Declaration says.
But take heart from the flip side – if the balloon goes up, only a small fraction of the other side will actually fight for the system they’ve created either. I doubt even very many purple-shirted SEIU thugs would feel all that tough if they were up against people who they knew would not only hit back, but maybe shoot back. Alinky may have devised a clever scheme for working within civil, polite society, but almost everything about his system is predicated on the other side being contrained by civilized rules you don’t have to follow. If the other side stops following those rules, Alinskyites don’t have much of a playbook.
Remember the coniption fits the Left had in 2000 when a bunch of Republicans in suits pounded their fists on a door in Florida during the hanging chad fiasco? Oh, the thavage brutes!
Well, hopefully it doesn’t come to that, but it’s going to take some political courage to turn things around peacefully. We need some folks to get elected and set about dismantling the bureaucracy that funds the progressive/socialist agenda. If that doesn’t happen soon, all those problems you chronicled about growing inequality will boil over into violence.
294. Mongoose
Great points made in a great way.
Now I must either skip todays (very light workout ) thus leaving a goose egg on the calendar or go use my equipment…gotta go…hate seeing those zeros … best regards.
Best health and happiness to us all.
Habu
yo, debbie wasserman-schultz is on “Geraldo” at the moment –quick –tune in Fox and watch the clash of towering intellects! And the towering clash of intellects!
***
habu –thanks for the lecture –and don’t quit –lack of feedback may not be lack of interest (in fact in all liklihood it isn’t, but that can’t be readily proved, thus the use of a slight equivocation), but rather a case of readers being slightly stunned after a “habu”.