If this article from the Guardian is accurate, then Obama has indirectly broken his silence on Gaza. And the message from his camp strongly suggests Hamas will be allowed to survive.
The incoming Obama administration is prepared to abandon George Bush’s doctrine of isolating Hamas by establishing a channel to the Islamist organisation, sources close to the transition team say.
The move to open contacts with Hamas, which could be initiated through the US intelligence services, would represent a definitive break with the Bush presidency’s ostracising of the group. The state department has designated Hamas a terrorist organisation, and in 2006 Congress passed a law banning US financial aid to the group.
The Guardian has spoken to three people with knowledge of the discussions in the Obama camp. There is no talk of Obama approving direct diplomatic negotiations with Hamas early on, but he is being urged by advisers to initiate low-level or clandestine approaches, and there is growing recognition in Washington that the policy of ostracising Hamas is counter-productive. …
Richard Haass, a diplomat under both Bush presidents who was named by a number of news organisations this week as Obama’s choice for Middle East envoy, supports low-level contacts with Hamas provided there is a ceasefire in place and a Hamas-Fatah reconciliation emerges.
Another potential contender for a foreign policy role in the Obama administration suggested that the president-elect would not be bound by the Bush doctrine of isolating Hamas.
“This is going to be an administration that is committed to negotiating with critical parties on critical issues,” the source said.
There are a number of options that would avoid a politically toxic scenario for Obama of seeming to give legitimacy to Hamas.
“Secret envoys, multilateral six-party talk-like approaches. The total isolation of Hamas that we promulgated under Bush is going to end,” said Steve Clemons, the director of the American Strategy Programme at the New America Foundation. “You could do something through the Europeans. You could invent a structure that is multilateral. It is going to be hard for the neocons to swallow,” he said. “I think it is going to happen.”
Every nightmare begins with a dream. Salman Rushdie, who Christopher Hitchens once described as “Kashmiri by family, Muslim by birth, and Indian by partition” wrote about the transformation of his almost comically pacific birthplace into one of the world’s great trouble spots. That transformation is embodied in the character of Shalimar the Clown, a fictional creation in one of his novels, who eventually becomes a Jihadi and assassin. Explaining why the sinister Shalimar was always referred to in his novel as “the clown”, Rushdie said “I wanted to stress the sweetness of his beginnings.”
Never forget though, that in the novel Max Ophuls, a U.S. diplomat who has worked in the Kashmir Valley, is murdered by Shalimar the Clown.
Bill Clinton’s first big mistake was addressing gays in the military. He pissed everybody off. If Obama seriously intends to talk to a terror group that is sworn to the destruction of Israel, his administration’s effectiveness is over before it even starts. I suspect/ hope this is a leak from somoene who thinks they are a close Obama advisor but will soon be looking for a job. Or al Guardian is just making things up.
“growing recognition in Washington that the policy of ostracising Hamas is counter-productive.”. Perfecet diplo speak. But just how would negotiations help?
But just how would negotiations help?
When a system has a lot of momentum, it’s hard to change its course with a small love. It’s stable and relatively immune to minor mistakes, like an airplane which self-recovers from small pilot errors. Or a bicycle pelting down a straight at 35 mph. But once that system starts losing energy and flutters around, it is quite susceptible to small perturbations. The consequences of miscalculations are magnified.
But suppose you have diplomats who believe that the old institutions are still all-powerful and able to sustain their pet projects when in fact the world they remember is crumbling all around them? They’re apt to try something which would have once been merely eccentric, but is now catastrophic. The old are hostages to memories of their youth. It took a long time for the Great War generals to realize that Napoleonic tactics were a thing of the past. All this palaver for the benefit of what is really a gang of killers in the service of the Iranian regime might be regarded as comedic if it weren’t conducted in such earnest.
There’s a better than even chance that Obama could get away with ‘legitimizing’ Hamas; what he may not realize is that the laying of the hands by diplomats ain’t what it used to be. BHO doesn’t know what’s at the end of the road if he embarks on it. He may think he does, but I don’t think so.
A side point: Aussie Dave at Israellycool pointed out that yesterday Abbas’s term as President of the PA expired. Did Israel time the invasion based on that and O’s inauguration? Who leads the PA now? This game’s far from over.
So now Obama might “open contacts” with Hamas.
Sigh. Who said terrorism doesn’t pay?
And what exactly are we to talk with Hamas about? They’ve proven that they ignore cease-fires in the past, and that they’re not interested in even recognizing the state of Israel as a legitimate entity.
Such contacts would undermine the governments of Jordan and Egypt, to which Hamas, as part of the Muslim Brotherhood, is unalterably opposed. Meeting with these groups legitimizes them, whether we want to believe it or not.
To your comment, Wretchard – it’s all about the “process,” and has been ever since Oslo in 1993. To the diplomacy uber alles crowd results don’t matter. And old institutions must be preserved even if everyone has forgotten why they’re there.
This is just the sort of thing I was afraid Obama would do.
Let us recap a few important points about Hamas…
They are a terrorist group, does that mean anything anymore?
not really, they hold power…. so let’s talk to them….
They have murdered hundreds in suicide bombings…
so what? it’s their civil rights to kill infidels and jews….
They have murdered their fellow arabs with brutality and callousness…
so what? after all they are arab they are killing, knee capping or just flinging off of rooftops…
The have shot over 7000 rockets into israel aimed at civilians
again, big deal…
They advocate the genocide of all Jews..
really so what?
Now that being said….
If BHO and the world insists that we should hold talks, if the progressives of the world insist we respect Hugo Chavez, Che, Castro, Pol Pot, Arafat and other and THEIR IDEALS ON SOCIAL JUSTICE we should!!!!!!!!!!!!
But let’s have communication…
My new slogan is:
Death to Hamas
I now advocate the genocide on any and all member of Hamas of any wing, political or military, and the complete use of any means possible to kill, torture and hurt Hamas and their families…
Bounties should be established on heads of Hamas, Hezbollah, Leftist Radical leaders that we dont like and say to them, since we admit you hold power and will talk to us and you are committed to our destruction, we too hold power and are committed to destroy you!
I no longer accept a “2 state” solution, Any and all islamic/persian or arabs that attempt war against israel shall either be kneecapped or executed and their families homes be demolished and the grounds salted…
But we can talk….
Hamas, please let’s have tea and btw? Your brave captured fighters? Will be kept in pits in the ground and will not have any contact with the outside world…. Your killed comrades? Their bodies will be stitched into pig skins and fed to the sharks?
So when can we have tea?
I like a little rum in mine….
Oh Hamas, Hezbollah and any others?
I know a great pull pork BBQ place that is great for sipping some scotch and eating those pork sandwiches…
shall I book a table for you and I?
In the politics of envy, Israel will forever be the loser, the bad guy. I’ve read somewhere that even peaceful, “assimilated” Israeli Arabs are becoming estranged and more isolated from Israel at large (through choice, agitation, fear…money, who knows). And Israel is facing a demographic change like that anticipated in Europe. Many of Israel’s citizens are not Jewish (nor have they been, actually). Is the barrel of a gun the only fertile ground from which power grows? (or a barrel of oil)
But just how would negotiations help?
Well, that would depend on what outcome you desire. As per the studies, apart from those terrorist & insurgency groups which don’t disband themselves, most others are removed as a threat via political negotiation.
Meanwhile, if Israel was, is and will continue to negotiate with Hamas, I don’t understand why anyone would be surprised the US president would as well. What possible reason would he have for not? That on behalf of US Jews he won’t negotiate with an enemy of the Israeli Jews who will?
Apart from willingly giving up US political influence and handing it to someone else, this achieves exactly nothing.
And there arose in America a Pharaoh who knew not Joseph!
An old phrase comes back to mind from earlier Democratic administrations: “looking for someone to surrender to”.
Consider all the years of peace that resulted from Team Clinton’s talks with Arafat….In hindsight Bubba should have sent Barney Frank, he and Yaz would have relished getting to the bottom of things….
Allegedly, Obama will negotiate with terrorists. He has nominated a respected, but unqualified Leon Panetta for CIA chief. He has legitimized a domestic terrorist, Bill Ayers. Does anyone else wonder who’s interests BHO represents? Is he working for the enemies of America, or is he really such a naive post modernist dreamer that he believes is a world Beyond Good and Evil? After witnessing Carter’s damage to American prestige 30 years ago, I see worse ahead for us. This is the 1930′s all over again – economic downturn, federal intervention to make it worse, anti-semitic violence across Europe, thuggish statism in Russia. And this time, add global jihad to the mix. The Anglosphere and India appear allied. Now we need to encourage China to be part of the team. The new Axis of Evil is shaping up as the oil powers – Russia and the Muslim world.
“…and there is growing recognition in Washington…”
Bullocks alert. Much like the “growing perception across America” that our own MSM used in the 80′s.
Perhaps there is a great Arab Awakening going on? Hamas having gotten the crap kicked out of it and having estranged many folks living in Gaza (Also, you can’t blame everything on Israel and President Bush isn’t here to kick around anymore) it is time to begin to reconcile the legitimate needs and desires of legitimate Palestinians with the other residents of the area.
It will probably not be Hamas emerging from the ruins.
Or not.
Mr. Obama the Hamas Charter is stated on the internet in plain English calling for the total destruction of Israel, killing of all the Jewish people or converting them to Muslims and making Israel the part of the Iranian new world order ruled by the Inmans out to conquer the world. So I ask quite openly – just what part of it do you now understand? If Hamas is rewarded for terrorism, just your pants buckled on tight as it will cause the spread of Jihad faster than lightening as the radicals will all post it on their websites saying that you approve of their actions. I guess we are headed back to the old west style of a world where a strong man is require to clean out the bad guys with a bullet or noose. No wonder so many rushed out to purchase guns after learning Obama won the election.
Watching from the mountains the prophets saw history. Standing on the Washington monument the prophets only saw themselves. The oracles lying in the valley of Foggy Bottom see nothing and only remember the past.
They of the State Department confuse the past with the innocent nature of their own childhood. They actually agree with the screed of CNN. It is the state Department’s version of going to church on Sunday when they listen to the Blitzer,Brown,and Cooper dilettante diatribes on justice in this world.
When Barak Obama realizes that the diplomats have failed this generations of Americans he will turn from them and face Thrasymachus. It will be somewhat sad when he accepts that “justice is nothing else than the interest of the stronger”. He would have gotten better advice at the Pentagon but by then someone would have to tell him that you can’t unweave history.
He should not agree to let Hamas laugh as it tries to murder Israel. Even a caged animal is respected when it tries to defend itself. Zoo masters are more practical than diplomats and lawyers.
I think this article from al Guardian is totally made up from whole cloth. It’s some Guardian writer’s idea of how he hopes things will be.
It’s not much different from Jesse Jackson’s comments on what he thought an Obama administration would be like.
While I’m not expecting great things from an Obama administration regarding the ME I don’t believe that the Guardian knows anything special about what Obama will really be like.
“If Obama seriously intends to talk to a terror group that is sworn to the destruction of Israel, his administration’s effectiveness is over before it even starts.”
———
Right because isolation of Hamas along with the ghettoization of Gaza has worked so well to subdue the “terrorists.”
# 17
You’re absolutely right, the peaceful, voluntary turnover of Gaza was an instant success, and those wonderful and industrious Gazans would have kept it a paradise if not for that damn Zionist meddling and intrigue. We all know those Jooooos (in disguise, of course) were really the ones looting, rioting, and pillaging when Israeli soldiers were forcing out their own countrymen at gunpoint.
And we all know it was really the Jooooos who would disguise themselves as Arabs, cross the border secretly, and lob thousands rockets into civilian areas in Israel – what a blatant and obvious attempt to make it seem like Palestinians were firing at Israel!
I think, but I’m not completely sure, that the head of Hamas is actually a Jooooo double agent working to discredit the Palestinian cause and make them suffer.
Hamas, and by consent the majority of the population in Gaza, are barbarians – enemies of civilization. If Obama intends to negotiate (make concessions) with Hamas then it can only be at the expense of the civilizing elements of humanity.
If Obama does not see Hamas as the enemy then the enemy must be us.
The diplo-idiot quoted in the article says we’re
going to negotiate with “critical parties on critical issues” What is Hamas “critical” to other than Iran’s ambitions and the continued bleeding of the Middle East?
If Hamas is legitimized ,that would seem to portend a pardon for Sami-al-Arian and the Holy Land Foundation .They were convicted of aiding a terrorist organization ,Hamas.
While this may be six pounds of crap in a five pound bag from the Guardian, it might also be something floated by Obama’s team( can anyone say Susan Rice or Samantha Power?)
What it would seem to do is steel the hearts of Hamas’ soldier, in Col. Hackworth’s phrase.
That thing that we have greatly feared may be coming upon us.
Joe the Plumber is in Israel, reporting.
He’ll do a better job with no experience than that Christiana what’s her name bitch that speaks with the phony accent.
Joe the Plumber had it figured out. A vote for Obama was a vote against Israel.
I am guardedly with Utopia Parkway on this one. Over at National Review it is pointed out the idea the isolation of Hamas is a W policy is very much incorrect.
Andy McCarthy (here: http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=MGUwMzEzYjE4MjYzYjIxZWQwMjJjZjhhYTA4ZjQ1ZjM=) notes Bill Clinton designated Hamas as a terrorist organization, back in 1995 and then reinforced that notion in 1997.
How ironic, many of us will most likely become Hillary supporters!
Well, it is very simple, really. Clearly y’all have not dealt with the Denizens of D.C. enough to understand the thought processes.
For example, the concept of the “non-paper” is one they use at DoS. The idea is that they can take a document over to someone’s embassy that explains the US position on some subject – but it is a “non-paper” as in the Mission Impossible phrase “…the Secretary will disavow any knowledge.” Just some nut off the street wrote something down and walked in claiming it was the U.S. position, that must be it, sure.
So, for Hamas, they will establish relations and then, if they keep shooting rockets at Israel, then they can take really Harsh Measures and “break off diplomatic relations.” That’ll teach’em!
Who knows? At any moment it may become “not the Hamas I thought I knew.”
I’m taking this Guardian article with a grain of salt.
There was another recent article at Bloomberg’s purporting to outline Obama’s intended space policy, and that article turned out to be a sham. Al too often, reporters write pieces, and newspapers puiblish them, that contain both wishful thinking on their part leavened with a desire to “make news.”
You people are nuts. Does it ever occur to you, even once, that we do not live in a black and white world???
I can see why it’s called “Pajamas Media”…after all, the inmates generally aren’t allow to wear regular clothing.
As commenter “Kilo” correctly points out, if Israel will talk to Hamas, why shouldn’t the US? Well, my answer is that it depends entirely on what he says during the conversation. If it is something along the lines of, say, “I hope the Israelis kill every one of you murderous animals and they can count on us to pay for the bullets” then I would imagine most of the Belmont Clubbers would give him three cheers. It is what we are all AFRAID he will say that makes that act of speaking to Hamas so objectionable. When Ronald Reagan went to see the Russians, it was after having established a long reputation for toughness and strength when dealing with them (he used to say he was looking forward to only answering their demands with a curt “Nyet”). Even so, many of his supporters feared he would lose his nerve in the crunch and fold to some outrageous demands (as he in fact did during the Iran Contra Fiasco).
If I were Israel, I would POUR IT ON. They’ve got at least one more clean week of pounding before Obama can turn up any real heat, and even then his Government Spending Tidal Wave Act of 2009 will be absorbing most of his attention, so they may actually have as much as a month to clobber those #$%&ers before the heat gets too high.
You are all disillusioned. Israel will be swallowed over by the Palestinian population. The 700 they have killed represents less than 2 days worth of births. And they have just recruited the Palestinian fighters of the next generation by creating today’s orphans. America is declining and by 2025 will no longer be the world leader according to the experts. I think it will happen a lot sooner. Planting Israel on stolen Palestinian land will turn out to be the biggest mistake. Sharon said ‘Jews control America and the Americans know it’. You have all been brainwashed, keep sending all your tax dollars to Israel to go down a bottomless pit. So far the US economy has lost 500,000 jobs every month for the past 3 months. America has more problems at home that needs attention.
When I was a young man, we had an incredibly foolish and naive president who emboldened an entire generation of arabs, persians and muslims by allowing a ragtag group of shitheels to hold fiftysomeodd Americans as their hostages for over a year. An act of war that was not acknowledged. I’m pretty sure we’ve just hired ourselves another incredibly foolish and naive president. Ten years from now it may be “rock out witcho cock out” day, every day, in the middle east. I hesitate to say this, cause this is generally a classy blog, but I’m afraid my fellow countrymen are going to learn the hard way that there are seriously negative consequences to be suffered when you put a pussy in the White House.
Mo,
If I’m not mistaken, the word you meant to use was “delusional”. The other word you might want to look into is “projection”.
“rock out witcho cock out” day
Anybody who has access to a phrase like that knows that it’s not just the Executive but the Team – Susan Rice, Samantha Power who I just discovered married Cass Sunstein last July who was recently appointed to head the Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs, “the chokepoint of the entire federal regulatory apparatus.” (ref American Prospect) Obama is the avatar representing the shift in thinking. Whether it’s called a dialectic or paradigm doesn’t make much difference. It’s still shifting.
Obama will side with all of Israel’s enemies; the US will cease being an ally on January 20th. Expect the US to vote against Israel in the UN Security Council, cutoff weapons sales and halt military and security coordination. Israel is truly on its own now.
Forces of cataclysmic proportion are in motion; capable of destroying nations, peoples, and civilizations. As they move, we discover that Hussein Pasha, who is to be installed in the White House, is closer to Yosef bar Caiaphas than to the Obamessiah his followers adore.
There was no lack of warning, despite the efforts of the media to prevent it. We are about to reap a whirlwind.
As the master of my namesake said:
” … Only the Great Blue Sky Tengri Nor knows the result.”
Subotai Bahadur
maineman,
Keep your knowledge of English to nit wits like your president George Bush. If that was the case you must a big sigh relief that at least Barrack Hussein Obama can at least construct a sentence.
Obama is way over his head with Hamas. Sooner rather than later, the Islamic fascists will provide Obama with a learning experience.
Mohammed-
You must be smoking hashish or something. Muslims have never been able to seriously fight the Israelis in spite of your overwhelming numerical superiority. A handful of Jews push you morons around at will and all you can do is bluster and whine. If the IDF was allowed to unleash a major artillery barrage on Gaza City, say for 12 hours straight, the Muslim death toll would be 7,000, not 700. And even if this were to happen, the surrounding Muslim states would do nothing because they understand the consequences to them militarily.
Staring In Disbelief said:
“If I were Israel, I would POUR IT ON. They’ve got at least one more clean week of pounding before Obama can turn up any real heat, and even then his Government Spending Tidal Wave Act of 2009 will be absorbing most of his attention, so they may actually have as much as a month to clobber those #$%&ers before the heat gets too high.”
I agree. This is a clear opportunity for Israel to take out the garbage.
Contrarian, please don’t feed the troll. Thanks!
Mohammed: “You are disillusioned”? Do you mean “deluded”?
I am going to assume that you are from the Arabian ME, so let me say this to you:
What hogwash! We have been listening to this USA declinist BS out of the haters of liberty since the day after our creation. (Strange how these rascals also hate Jews, isn’t it?)
You are projecting your own fears about your own nature and fate on us, just like the racist, looter and rapist that is your namesake projected his and his people’s savagery on other peoples and other faiths. You are standing and jeering with a large pack a jackals, all of whom have been disproved by history over and over again. Brutes one and all.
(BTW, excluding India, the other contenders to world power are parasites on the USA. Should the USA put up strong tariff on China it would crumble inside 3 years. China stops buying our paper? This would be a good thing altogether for the health of the USA in the long run. But who would buy China’s “goods”. Who are the other contenders for power? Russia? The EU? The Muslim world? Seriously now. Wishful thinking on your part.)
And should the USA fall, arrogant punks like you will be the first to cry out in the night for her as your new masters will be harsh masters indeed. The Chinese, the Russians or the Iranians would just seize your land and and enslave you. They despise Arabs. You cannot even defend yourself against a tiny country like Israel. What will you do against a real power that has not the moral restraints and scruples possessed by the USA? You will cower like a woman, that is what you will do.
Do you really think that in 2025 the oil resources of the region will be worth anything? Energy technology will have moved on much before that. This certain fact does not bode well for the Arabian ME.
Over and over, the ME Arabian states have proved that they cannot do anything with that money but spend it on shiny objects — like pimps with large bankrolls in a bazaar. Wait until the money is gone — what is happening in Dubai is a taste what is to come. It will be back to middle ages — back to being desert nomads — for Arabian Muslims.
The Jews, on the other hand, have no oil but have prospered mightily in a desert. They have had to earn their wealth. They have done this for centuries against obstacles that would destroy almost every other people that have ever lived on this earth.
This is one of the chief reasons why you hate them: They shame you. But it is really yourself that you hate. You just lack the courage and manhood to admit this.
We have heard this absurd assertion about the Jews controlling the West since the French Revolution. If this were so, how can you explain their fate in the West? And what was the West’s fate when it turned so harshly against the Jew? God does not seem to favor Jew haters much.
As Oriana Fallaci pointed out, it is a punishment indeed to have 20 million Muslims replace the 6 million Jews they killed — Jews that immeasurably enriched Western civilization in general and Germany in particular. Their Musim
“replacements” only degrade European civilization.
Hate the Jew all you want, but the Arab Muslims will never produce an Einstein, a Heine, a Mahler or a Mendelssohn. Never. Not in the Middle East and not in Germany. And as for the high European culture that nourished them and that they contributied to, the muslim world will never, ever reach those heights.
Should the West fall, The Middle East would never reach their level. Not even with their shining example before them. Not in a thousand years. Within a century the Muslim world would revert to the middle ages. One would not even be able to find a light bulb factory there, probably not even a light bulb.
No, the truth is that the Jews are a people close to God. It is the key lesson of their history. That, above all else, is why scoundrels like you hate them so.
You need to move beyond your parody of a religion and undertake some honest soul searching: Do it while you can still save your soul.
What else can anyone expect from a man born and raised as a Muslim?
It’s like expecting a man born and raised as a Klan member to suddenly embrace a color-blind society.
It can’t happen.
Besides, Obama’s team hates Jews and Israel. This is the default value of the Left and the Gentry (but I repeat myself).
What Obama and the Gentry WANT is terrorism, mass casualty terrorism, aimed at the US. So that we can be forced to surrender. This has huge advantages for the Gentry and the Left, allowing it to eliminate all domestic opposition to it’s rule in the surrender, and allowing them to embrace the domination of Islam which all find attractive.
Please keep the discussion civil or on topic otherwise the thread will be ruined.
One of Bush’s greatest successes was his sidelining of the so called “Peace Process.”
Immediately after Election 2000′s dust settled, the usual suspects began to berate him for “ignoring” their pet process. These suspects included such honoraries as Dick Durban (D-Il), Tom Daschle (D-SD), France’s foreign minister, DeVillepin, and, of course, the editors of the NYT, Der Spiegel, CNN and Al Jazeera.
These players were either deluded into thinking the process was achieving its goal, Middle-East peace, or they were actively attempting to hinder Bush’s range of motion in the region.
In this, the “Peace Process” resembled the “Oil for Food” program. As long as the US president’s foreign policy was bounded by these useless rackets our detractors would call the extorted status quo “peace.” But, as soon as our Republican CinC shucked-off these binds, whether it was to conduct regime change in Iraq, or to defeat Islamic terrorists in Gaza, these same suspects suddenly discovered “Bush’s gulags,” rendition (a Clinton policy), “Cowboy Unilateralism,” war-crimes and “civilian” casualties.
It’s enough to make you wonder if these folks weren’t just brokers for the terrorists all the time. Bush served as a broker for America and Isreal in the ME. But now, Obma’s made it clear that he intends to play the broker for Hamas.
It is change we can believe in!
Mongoose & Contraria,
You have what we call sour grapes. If you are white, sorry for you because you will become extinct soon. Barrack Hussein Obama’s election is because the proportion of your population has fallen of a cliff and will keep going down . What makes you think you are more civilized? How do you measure it? You are not the happiest people on earth by any scientific analysis.
You have the highest prison population in this world. Your suicide rate is far higher than the middle east you ignorantly think I come from. You are addicted to credit and who gives you the credit? Middle East and China. Living above your means. Katrina has exposed what America really is.
As for jews that you have brought up,what makes you think I have anything against them after all I am human unlike you. But the Zionists among them are blood suckers and when they finish sucking America dry they will move on and leave you with trillion dollar debts. They will do you a Bernie Madoff and leave you scratching your heads.
And talking about religion. US situation is pathetic, we saw your evangelical hero Palin and boy how I wish they won. The dream scenario would have been for Mcain to win and get a heart attack. Sarah Palin would have been a joy to watch. I prayed for BHO to loose, at the end I concluded that God is merciful after all because America would have imploded. The American century is over guys, the earlier you accept it the better.
Mongoose: ‘you cannot even defend yourself against a tiny country like Israel.’
If you think Israel has ever fought a single war on its own, then you are really in cloud cuckooland. Even the 2006 bombardment of Lebanon had to be supported by the US and the UK.
Israel’s wars are essentially American wars, quoting an American president during one of the wars ‘send them everything we got’.
And to think that the whole world will go down because the US economy is in trouble is a myth. The American economy is contracting, meaning it is reducing meaning it is less than what is was a year ago and what happens to China or India, they are slowing, still growing just not as fast. So stop dreaming. Canada will soon gobble you up. You sad little wimp, get your head out of your ass and smell the coffee.
‘Mongoose: Middle East would never reach their level’
What makes you think the level the Middle East wants to attain is the level you think. What is your problem if they want to live in the stone age, they are not forcing that way of life down your throat are they?. Don’t you know that the best thing to ever happen would be for the US to leave foreign lands?
US created Osama and Taliban to fight the Russians, you armed Saddam to fight Iran, Israel funded Hamas to counter the PLO. So these are all problems you created for yourself to allow you stay in foreign lands. Get a life. Barrack Hussein Obama is president whether you like it or not. The irony is that America does not deserve an intelligent president, someone at the level of George Bush would be better, to ‘protect’ you.
Don’t feed the trolls.
Marcus Aurelius:
Don’t feed the trolls.
Translation? Avoid debate. Play deaf to what you do not like to hear. Close your eyes to reality. I used to do that in 4th grade. Block my ears and go tralalalalalalalalala.
Marcus:
I bow to Wretchard’s wishes.
MOHD,
You are not debating, you are trolling.
49. Marcus Aurelius:
MOHD,
You are not debating, you are trolling.
Of course. You are right in your own deluded meaning of ‘trolling’. But the fact is that you guys are pathetic and sad and need to get REAL lives. You resemble hamsters in a wheel. Your ‘fear’ feeds itself and has a life of its own. You are worse than the dead enders i see on Jerry Springer.
Whiskey, how does the left or Obama get us to surrender to terrorists? I can’t see that as a feasible long-range plan.
More likely, seems to me, BH’s lack of clarity about good guys and bad guys is at least somewhat a product of his childhood abandonment by mother and father, not to mention infection by leftism from an early age. He’s identifying with his father, defending against his rage at him. His mommy issues make him a megalomaniac, so for our purposes he’s a bull in the geopolitical china shop, acting out his unresolved issues on the world stage to our probable detriment.
I would expect him to look evenhanded, act out his unconscious sympathies, and thereby set into motion some self-destructive and destructive process.
That’s if he’s really in charge of anything.
51. maineman: ‘BH’s lack of clarity’
This man is today the leader of the free world, accord him some respect. He will bring sanity back to America. The nightmare that started in Florida in 2000 has finally ended.
Methinks that Benj is back.
Wretchard,
It’s your blog.
The trolls are firing rockets into it. You gonna’ just “role” over and play possum?
What does it take for you to reach your “biling pint”?
Concerning the troll: Genesis 16:12 And he will be a wild-ass of a man, his hand against every man, and every man’s hand against him; and he shall dwell before the face of all his brethren. (DBY YLT)
And: Proverbs 26:4 Don’t answer a fool according to his folly, lest you also
be like him.
Lord have mercy!
Not wanting to feed the trolls…
But it is funny how after the arab world StoLE the Jews properties in 1948 they became worthless..
800,000 jews expelled from their historic homes across the middle east…
Jews lived in these homes for 2000 years before ole Mo got tired of humping camels and moved UP and married a RICH Jewish Business Lady (who taught him every thing he knew (but not everything she knew))
No Israel could destroy the entire arab population in a nanosecond if they lowered themselves to their bastard cousins moral level…
The lesson of Abraham is that no matter how horny you are, dont hump the maid… (hagar)
Ishmael is a numerous, yet inbred group of people that marry 1st and 2nd cousins…
They are the MULE of humanity now…
As for Israel in 2006 using USA supplied weapons, absolutely…
But really do you THINK Hamas and HEZBOLLAH did not USE russian built, Iranian supplied weapons as well>
the difference?
hamas and hezbollah shoot 10′s of thousands of rockets that barely killed 29 israelis… percentage wise a typical dead israel with nitroglycerin shot could kill more arabs than that…
In the current war Hamas is nothing if Israel would just use the arab standard of behavior..
hama rules….
We dont need to feed the trolls we need to make them understand that there is a new generation of peoples that will fight back, kill em and stitch them into pig skins if they DARE try to pull their 7th century death cult crap on us…
I got a nice Glock .40 cal and 100 rounds in my trunk just waiting for the Jihadist retard to attack MY schul…
and after I put 3 in his head from 50 feet?
I’ll take out my bag of dog hair and crap and my bottle of bacon bits and smear and sprinkle it on the jihadist’s dead corpse…
How many tons of steel are made in the Arabic Middle East?
How many tons of aluminum?
How many microchip factories are there in the Arabic Middle East?
How many autofactories?
How many factories that make Computers? Cell phones?
How many copper mines or copper smelters?
How much oil well equipment is actually made in the Arabic Middle East?
How many factories make rifles or ammunition?
How many chemical works can actually make explosives?
How many books are published annually in the Arabic Middle East?
How many medical schools are there in the Arabic Middle East?
Consider well the answers, and then consider if the Arabic Middle East (or Persian Iran for that matter) has an ascendant culture capable of worldwide influence.
What they have is a lot of oil wealth in the states of the Arabian peninsula, and a militant proselytizing religion that agressively defends its home turf against outside ideas, to remain pure to the vision of its founder, the Prophet Mohammed.
Partners for peace? What do they really have to offer the world? What happens when the oil runs out?
Just to be clear…
I carry to PROTECT…
period.
What happens when the oil runs out?
we have peace….