When Did the War Start? Or Did It?
Almost everything you read about the “increasing tension” between Iran and the United States revolves around the rhetorical question, “will there be a war?” Whether it’s our own pundits or the Europeans who watch us, “war” seems closer every day. Look at the Guardian’s Simon Tisdall, for example:
This is how wars start, through a process of hostile rhetoric, mutual ignorance and chronic miscalculation. Anybody in Tehran following the impassioned US debate on Iran will be aware that an influential Washington constituency, aided and abetted by leading Republican presidential candidates Mitt Romney and Newt Gingrich, favours military action sooner rather than later. For these American hardliners, it is no longer merely a question of destroying Iran’s suspected nuclear facilities. Regime change is the name of the game because, it is argued, that is the only way to ensure Iran never gets the bomb.
If Mr. Tisdall knew as much about American politics as he should, he wouldn’t have credited Romney and Gingrich with the notion that “regime change is the only way to ensure Iran never gets the bomb.” That actually comes from the editorialists at the Washington Post. And if he knew as much about the origins of war as he should, he’d pay more attention to the Iranians’ messianic vision of global power — the quest for power being the central element in a nation’s decision to go to war, as the great historian Donald Kagan writes in his magisterial On the Origins of War.
But no matter, Tisdall is certainly right to say that war talk is abundant nowadays, in Washington and Tehran. And it often includes Israel, as well. It’s a depressing spectacle, because the pundits have systematically blinded themselves to the real context in which current events are unfolding, and this deflects otherwise serious people from thinking about the real world, which in turn means we do not have a serious strategy.
Serious thinking, and a serious strategy, must begin with the fact that the war is on. To repeat: the war is on. It’s been on for three decades. Ayatollah Khomeini declared war on the United States in February, 1979, and the leaders of the Islamic Republic of Iran have been killing Americans ever since.
When they demonstrate in the streets and chant “Death to America!” what do you think they mean?
When they call us the “Great Satan,” do you think that’s the opening gambit in a negotiation to “normalize relations”? Iran and the United States had very warm relations before the 1979 Revolution, after all. The Carter administration desperately sought warm relations with Khomeini et. al.
The Iranian regime was not interested then, and there is no good reason to believe they are interested now. Yes, from time to time they are prepared to execute tactical retreats, but their war against us continues, yesterday in Lebanon, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Kenya, Tanzania and Somalia, today in Afghanistan and throughout Africa (if our experts look carefully, they will see the Iranian claw at work in Nigeria, for example), and tomorrow in Latin America and within the homeland, in tandem with their friends in Cuba, Venezuela, Bolivia, and others.
To date, we have had various documented responses. On the battlefield, we have defended ourselves against Iranian-trained and -equipped terrorists and their IEDs and EFPs. We have spent billions of dollars to try to thwart or mitigate the effects of these “roadside bombs.” As a visit to a military hospital will demonstrate, we continue to see terribly maimed soldiers and Marines under medical treatment, so, while we have made some progress, this remains a very real problem.
Thank you, Mr Ledeen, for reminding us that we’ve been a war with Islam since 1979.
We don’t hear this often enough, we’re too busy thinking that it’s “someone else’s problem”….even after 2001 and the Islamic attack in Lower Manhattan, the Pentagon, and the crashed third aircraft in that farm field in Pennsylvania.
I don’t know what it takes to wake us up….”political correctness” is lethal.
yes it’s just plain murder, charlie griffith.
Iran is a war between the bloody Dictator in Saudi Arabia and the bloody Dictator in Iran.
Obama is on the bloody, genocidal Saudi Dictator’s side.
Obama is willing to kill thousands of American soldiers and spend trillions of American dollars to hand another country over to the bloody Saudi Dictator.
Iran has Sharia Law in its constitution. Iran will always be a bloody dictatorship as long as Sharia Law stays in its constitution.
Yes Iran is at war with any country that does not have Sharia Law in their constitutions. But Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya, Egypt, Kenya, Tunisia and Yemen all maintain Sharia Law in their constitutions. All of these countries are at war with the US. They are at war with any country that doesn’t have Sharia Law. Sharia Law is over 1400 years old and was written by a Bloody, Genocidal Dictator for world conquest.
“On 28 April 1951, the Majlis (Parliament of Iran) named Mosaddegh as new prime minister by a vote of 79–12. Aware of Mosaddegh’s rising popularity and political power, the young Shah appointed Mosaddegh to the Premiership.” Wikipedia. The fact is, Ledeen, the Shah was forced to appoint Mossadeqh after overwhelming support. It was us who started “the war”, not Iran. And, I cannot say I blame them for hating us. We have only ourselves to blame…the ousting of Iranian democracy in order to replace him with “our boy” Reza, the “embassy”, Iran’s Revolution, 9-11, whatever. It is Karma ( and our inconsistent foreign policy) that haunts us. It’s all our own doing. Stop the propaganda. You obviously have your agenda as well. Have you been to Iran? I doubt it. I have, and I know quite a bit about the country, their government, and Sharia. Like democracy, it has it’s faults. But the two are not that far apart. It’s all about “interpretation”. You might want to ask Sharin Ebadi. If you ask me, Israel is a better example of totalitarian rule than Iran. Both sides are right, and both sides are wrong. The truth lies somewhere in the middle.
paul,
I have been to Iran and Mossadegh did become a national hero because he nationalized the oil industry but he did it immaturely — Iran didn’t have enough experts to run the oil industry and he should have waited until he won in court and had at least gotten United states’ support so as not to be embargoed. People wanted oil nationalization but also financal stability and they turned against him. The CIA is not so powerful that they can change a ruler’s popularity from 95% favorable to 95% disfavorable. Also you didn’t mention it, but MR pahlavi started the white revolution and took land from large land holders like Mossadegh and gave it to smaller farmers thereby ending feudalism and that did not sit well with larger land owners who supported mossadegh.
At war with Islam since 1979? Hardly. Try 1806 and the Barbary Pirates.
Not hardly. Try since about the sixth century or so, when this evil first appeared on the planet. The prosperity of the west made it mostly irrelevant for centuries, until oil wealth gave them new power, like pouring gasoline on embers.
The war is with Islam. It is an ideology that cannot coexist with liberty in any form. It will always be at war with us.
And that Islam is also at war with its own people…Yes, they employed the enormous revenues of the great wealth – that has been discovered by you for them – in the Service of Jihad against you “infidel”, Zionist and Christian, as is the case with the great supporters of Islamic-fascism on the surface of the earth “the Saudi Wahhabi Royal family.”
”political correctness” is lethal.
I always say: Political Correctness will be the death of the West.
While I didn’t enjoy it on the third incarnation of “The Girl with the Dragon Tatoo”‘s latest movie in the series has Alexander Skarrsgard’s character expounding on why people ignore instinct. We know something is wrong, but if we offend someone it’s taken as a deeper problem than backing away because our minds are screaming at us that something is wrong.
This is political correctness.
It is also systemic rot. It needs to go, and we have to be willing to stand up for ourselves and not be afraid to offend someone somewhere with something we may do. As far as we know it’s our only shot at things.
I count it as a mark of honor that Iran’s thugs declared war on us. Not for actions comitted, but because we’re diametrically opposed in thinking about basics of civility and civilization itself.
I try to seperate the people from the government, but we are in the monkeysphere and me and mine come first.
I’ve been studying up and I agree with you Mr. Leeden, I believe sabotage is coming from Iranians against their own government. I certainly wouldn’t discount anyone here or elsewhere deciding to help along any mischief, but I don’t think that’s where it originates from.
Mike,
Ref ‘political correctness’.
Political correctness is a symptom of the sickness that is socialism. I would suggest, it would be more correct to say that socialism will be the death of the west.
It is socialists who have defined ‘PC’ , it is highly subjective and by whose terms. Those of us who do not consider ourselves socialists should cease acknowledging ‘PC’ and call it what it is, socialism.
Same goes for the use of the terms, common era, CE instead of AD and co worker instead of colleague, chairperson, spokesperson etc., the list of infiltrating brainwashing socialistspeak is endless.
The term “political correctness” comes from the Communist Party. It is (or was) the term used by Communists to refer to what followed the party line from Moscow. The idiocies of the attacks on language are part of this. The term “man” is both a species word, one used to indicate individuals, and one which, since the 11 or 12th century in English refers to the male of the species, from the earlier “wereman” (“were” cognate with the Latin “vir’) while “wifman” referred to the female of the species and became the word “woman”). One big lie of “political correctness” is that using the ending “man,” as in “chairman” indicates prejudice against women – the word “woman” shows this.
The word “man” is from an old IndoEuropean word which is cognate with “mind,” “mental,” and “mathematics,” meaning “reasoning being.” The “politically correct,” show how mindless they are by making up facts to suit their theories instead of finding out the facts.
Among other monstrosities are those of using “Ms.” instead of “Miss,” coined by Gloria Steinem, and “gender” instead of “sex.” Miss Steinem’s argument was that there is no distinction made in English between married and unmarried men, so that the distinction between married and unmarried women is prejudice against unmarried women. If, indeed, referring to “Miss” reflects prejudice against unmarried women, why is (or was) it honorific; e.g. Elizabeth Taylor was always “Miss Taylor,” though she was married eight times! If it is not terrible for a woman to be unmarried, why not use “Miss” instead of the grotesque “Ms”?
And why use “gender” instead of “sex?” “Gender” is a grammatical term, indicating features of certain words. I shocked a “Woman’s Study” woman by saying this, including saying that there are three genders in German. She taught (and teaches) a foreign language, but did not know of the genders of masculine, feminine, and neuter in many languages, including Greek and Latin. The genders of words, of course, have nothing to do with sex; e.g., the Germans do not think that the moon (der Mond) is a male which engages in sexual reproduction with the sun (die Sonne) as a female.
All that has happened is that the word “gender” has replaced “sex,” so that female cats are of the feminine “gender.”
And so it goes.
c
Someone should get these message to American voters…they seem to have either fogotten these messages..or never knew them. Our young people are poorly informed of the real facts. they are more informed about the ‘bachelor”, “dancing with the stars’ etc..than their country and who is running it..into the ground.
Americans seem to ignore what is going on or with our country until it hits us in the head..like a brick bat.
The rhetoric has become deafening with the politics of destruction that we have going on in our country, to the exclusion of what we are doing in the rest of the world. We are going to get hit..it’s not if…and we will be in a complete quandry as to what the hell has happened, or what to do.
..spellcheck not working..
Political correctness has penetrated to the point that its proponents can’t be identified as conservatives or liberals. During the recent Bush presidency the military kept pushing for women in combat, despite having to lower standards so they could pass the training regimen.
Only a civilization that has given up hope of survival or is on its last legs would send fecund females into combat.
Unfortunately, Mr. Ledeen is wrong about the war. The attempt by followers of the Koran to conquer the world should really be called World War I. The Koran is more akin to “Mein Kampf” than it is to the Bible. Islam has been at war with the rest of the world since its founding. Iran will just be another battle in a conflict that started around 733 AD, and will not end until Islam is relegated to the dustbin of history.
haha. nor israel or the USA are able to harm Iran. this is pure propaganda. USrael never had an enemy before with the capacities of Iran. USrael used just to attack third world countries and failed states.
if you ask me: i’d love to see the US or Israhell attacking Iran, cause that would be the end of US presence in the Gulf, and i am existed to see the first footage of burning tel aviv.
zionist di not have the balls to attack iran, cause it is not little lebanon or gaza.
Keep on whistling past that graveyard, Reich.
It’s yours.
Isn’t there a Presidential election.
Also, an escalation conflict between regime factions.
Also, an economy that is close to, if not already, in malfunction.
Also, a key ally that is close to regime collapse.
Seems there should be some opportunity.
Iran is being looked at in much the same way Viet Nam was and that didn’t turn out very well. The Vietnamese weren’t invading Venice Beach and neither is Iran. The truth is that Americans don’t know where their borders end or start. We extend the Constitution outside the U.S. to failed cultures all over the world out of misplaced compassion and childish and cheap psychology about “equality.” The culture that comprises exceptionalism is being demographically squeezed out in favor of squabbling hoards who don’t seem all that thrilled with America as is and want “change” as soon as they hit the shores.
We don’t protect our own country close to home and now once again someone is on Venice Beach “threatening” us and with the conspicuous failures of regime change in Iraq and Afghanistan staring us right in the face we still don’t get it.
Go ahead and attack those who actually threaten us least while letting them immigrate into America in their millions. I can buy a burkha in small town Georgia and Detroit and it won’t be in Iran where there will be hell to pay but right here. Simply ending all immigration would be a lot cheaper and smarter than going after Iran. What is it about a Muslim soldier killing other soldiers we do not get or the fact that muslims were able to walk around plotting the destruction of the Twin Towers unobserved because of our stupid addiction to multicult and diversity? And yet we are chased off our own values by stupid name calling like “racist” and “Islamophobia”; when did it become racist to observe a last place team is in last place?
The fight is at home not overseas and we are losing big time. Every day I have to listen to some moron not born here tell America how to be American though they come from a place with not the faintest clue on how to have a nice place to live. The new immigrants have learned this at the feet of politically correct Critical Pedagogues who are a mirror image of OWS but entrenched in our bureaucracy.
I consider this fight lost but if I truly gave a damn, I’d weep every time I look at the United Kingdom and France and the Low Countries and the sorry mess they have created for themselves and now, rather than see that as a warning we seek to emulate it while a failed Third World punches out babies at a rate they cannot sustain in their own backwaters. The last thing we need is more overseas adventurism. Let’s concentrate on keeping this Tower of Babel out of America. My country is not a de facto social experiment in diversity and I am not a lab rat nor my country an airport at the disposal of the Third World.
South Park censored itself in a manner unprecedented in modern American history due to a relatively few Muslims living here and that is where the war is. Not only would I stop all Muslims from coming to America I’d kick every one of them out too. Honor killings, sharia, prayers in the streets and all the rest. No.
Just so, SF.
Those who would stand back and let them take over say “how do you expel millions?” when the answer is straightforward. You don’t. You let them expel themselves. Why should we bear the burden of getting rid of them? Make them pay for their own expulsion.
It is necessary to make staying in North America painfully more expensive than running back to their point of origin. No more hate inspiring mosques or Islamic ‘rights’ groups that front for terrorism allowed. No more imams and practitioners spouting ‘death to America’ or any such nonsense will be tolerated in Western countries, just as peace-loving religions are not allowed in theirs.
Slam and lock the revolving door, too. Get out and stay out.
If you do come back it will only be once.
REALLY? Iran is killing Americans in Iraq and Afghanistan (just like the Vietnamese did I suppose).
Iran invaded US territory, you see an embassy is just that, and held Americans hostage for a very long time (just like the Vietnamese did I suppose).
Iran has openly vowed to wipe a US ally off the face of the planet (just like the Vietnamese did I suppose).
Iran has openly threatened commerce in international waters (just like the Vietnamese did I suppose).
Iran is dedicated to building nuclear weapons, their delivery platforms, and practiced firing them from ships, just what’s needed for an EMP attack on the “Great Satan”, (just like the Vietnamese I suppose).
The only ones who are “looking at this like Vietnam) are the leftist who look at every US military action, real or theoretical as being “just like Vietnam”. The same ones who elect politicians who do their damnedest to turn each and everyone into another “Vietnam”.
You save your post by pointing out the ludicrous idea of allowing these enemies to immigrate here, but the first part is bunk.
Should we go hot on Iran? Not with a piece of vermicelli standing behind the podium in the Oval Office certainly, but to even mention Vietnam in this context is laughable.
Iran is killing Americans in Iraq and Afghanistan, countries which border on Iran and not America. You not liking them doesn’t mean they don’t have the same ideas about protecting their sphere of influence that we do. This is a double standard where America says what people can and can’t do in their backyard based on how friendly they are to the U.S. We have no business there and show your proofs that Iran is doing what you say. Proof that Iran is killing Americans in American would be more compelling. The world is not our oyster, I don’t care what you say.
And you see the embassy hostage situation as invading America; brilliant.
You want to act on threaten, threaten, threaten. Go there and die then. People do not see every action by the U.S. as like Viet Nam. I was talking about Iran; leave it at that. I’ll let you know when you speak for me.
as sovereign territory of the nations they represent, attackers know that, and so should you, John Sungun
Saile, It’s true that Iran doesn’t have a carrier battle group off the California coast. But 9/11 proved that jihadists don’t have to. You’ve correctly identified an insidious threat to our society from within. But the conclusion we should draw from that isn’t that Islam is harmless militarily, and therefore we should just come home and build “fortress America.”
Jihadist success in the cultural/societal arena, simply tells us that they are smart enough to be fighting their declared war against us on multiple fronts: both on the battle field AND in our domestic institutions. Militarily, it’s our choice where we fight the battle. If we simply come home and pull up the drawbridge, we’ll be fighting both fronts of this war on home soil. We cannot rest in fighting the military front of their assault on us any more than we can the cultural one.
9/11 was done by Saudi Wahabbi Sunnis, not Iranian Shi’ites. Iran doesn’t like us but they didn’t do it. The imperative for 9/11 came from a very specific sect in a very specific country. You can’t just lump all of Islam that doesn’t like us in with 9/11 in terms of a military response.
What you can do is assume tacit support for 9/11 throughout the Muslim world and quarantine them in its entirety. Keep them out of the West as a reward. The ones that don’t hate us will turn on the ones who do when they can’t get a visa to anywhere worth going to. And if they don’t, let them sit there in their backwaters. I really don’t care. Until they join the 21st century and start spending some of that oil money for productive and peaceful aims they can go straight to hell.
There’s a judge in New York who issued a ‘guilty’ verdict against Iran for involvement in 9/11. Please don’t dismiss that out of hand.
Don’t get off in the weeds about 9/11. I was using that as one example of what these people are capable of. And please don’t waste your breath with a lecture about how the Sunna’ and Shia’ hate each other and would never work together….
As Mr. Ledeen noted in this very article, the Iranians have been killing us for decades – starting long before 9/11, both by themselves and through proxies of all jihadist stripes. They have been busted just recently for plotting an act of jihadist terror right here in our back yard.
So yes, let us focus on the threat from within (which I whole-heartedly agree, we have been ignoring). But we can’t just come home pull back in the turtle shell. There is an undeniable military wing to our enemies’ tactics. Static defense is the surest way to a slow and painful death.
Honor killings, sharia, prayers in the streets and all the rest. No.
Last night, I had the misfortune to tune into a MSM national network TV news report. It had a several minute long story about a man who had killed his three teen-aged daughters and his wife in an “honor killing”. Throughout the course of the report, I heard many instances of the terms “honor killing”, “Afghan man”, “common in patriarchical societies”, disapproval of daughter’s lifestyle”, etc. NOT ONCE, did I hear the terms “Muslim” or “Islam” or “religion”. Religion of peace, my ass!
That PoMS (piece of mohammedan shit) is, unfortunately a Canadian.
And it was only his first wife that he murdered, along with his
three ‘whore’ daughters, whose graves he yearns to shit on. (His words.)
Besides the nauseating crap his Canadian lawyer produced,
there’s nothing good you can say about this
polygamous Afghan mohammedan retard.
Excuse the tautology!
I’m with you Saile, all the way. I volunteer to help you round them up and drive
them to the boats and planes. Anything to get them out of your country and mine.
There is more reason to round up and imprison and ultimately deport all muslims from the USA and Canada than there ever was reason to imprison the Japanese Americans during WW2. Multiculturalism will surely kill us all if we don’t reverse the tide.
When we’re done, can we start on the illegals? If you removed a few million illegals from California, our budget problems would solve themselves.
“There are people in Washington who found a way to facilitate regime change in the Soviet Empire …”
In my more paranoid moments I sometimes ponder the possibility that our current administration is retaliation.
That’s not paranoia, it’s proper analysis.
They’re all the children of marx.
The people in Europe found a way to change the soviet empire, not US politicians. Reagan didn’t tear down any wall. Poles and Czechs made there way out of Germany past the wall. Protests and Gorbachev were a few of the many factors that brought down the soviet empire.
Mr. Sweatt, I am sure that you believe that Americans also did not freed Europeans from the Nazi! Didn’t they?! NO, No, Mr. Sweatt, you are WRONG. The Soviet Communism Empire (The Evil Empire) had been defeated with the great support by the American Right-wing Institutions for the democratic revolutions in middle Europe…At that time some American policy makers were miscalculated, in particular “wimps of liberals and other people of this shameful sort”. They never believed in power of good and evil, they didn’t convinced in the warning speeches by president Regan toward the Soviet Union, where he considered it as an evil empire – some had considered it an dangerous speeches – but at that time President Reagan mightily believed that Soviet Union an evil power and became necessary to its annihilation AND HE DID! So, President Reagan together with Neo-Conservatives and traditional Conservatives have played an effective role to fell the Evil Soviet Empire. Morally, we should don’t deny the facts! Didn’t they?! So, any REAL freedom revolution CANNOT be succeeding WITHOUT the US support.
Jassem Othman – Syrian dissident – Poland.
Until the writers on PJM go to the source of Terrorism it wont matter.
Saudi Arabia funds, supports, organizes and promotes terrorism through its Wahhabi school system and has been doing so before the USA existed as a nation, To be specific since 1750.
This funding did not truly take off until president Nixon handed Saudi Arabia control of the US Dollar in 1971, creating massive leverage and cash for the house of Saud through ARAMCO petroleum trading mechanism. (The Petro Dollar trading system)
Since then, the House of Saud has channeled over 100 Billion to its global terrorist network, promoting Wahhabi terrorism. Terrorists flying planes into the Twin Towers were not Iranians, they were Saudi.
The US government knows the extent Saudi’s fund, promote and organize global terrorism and yet US presidents since Nixon have given them the power and money to continue doing so. We actively support the same people that teach the World to not only hate, but Kill Americans.
Someone at PJM must have the guts to write the cold hard truth regarding global terrorism..? anyone..?
Iran does their own dirty work, they do not work for Saudi Arabia. They are two separate problems.
Somewhat seperate. They will cooperate to take down a common enemy (that’s the west), but they are also vying for dominance locally.
MR. ALEX, WELL SAID. I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU. IN FACT SAUDI ARABIA IS “THE MOTHER OF EVIL ON THE FACE OF THE EARTH!!!” They are your friends, and at the same time they are your enemies. They did NOT promoted a decent secular life, anyway…But I think the dealing with this country MUST CAUTIOUSLY!?
What Jihad? Zionist myth.
Jihad is a Zionist myth?
So the Muslim conquest of Sassanide Persia, the Levant and North Africa within 2 generations of the death of Mohammed were a myth? The Muslim conquest of Spain and parts of southern France was a myth? The Invasion of the Turkic Empire and then India leading to millions murdered was a myth?
The conquest of Cyprus, and Sicily were myths?
The Ottoman conquest of the remains of the Byzantine (East Roman) Empire and then conquest of the Balkans and up to Vienna was a myth?
All a Zionist myth?
Antisemitism, isolationism, or hysterical fear really do rot the mind, huh?
What would FDR had done if Franco sent terrorists into France andw Italy to attack US troops in WWII?
We would have wiped his regime from the face of the earth, Iran has killed and maimed thousands of US troops and our leaders have made their leaders pay no price for it. Oh and the 911 report says Iran most likely had a hand in the. Ate tack.
I want to make them pay for what they have done.
Ledeen is exactly right but the solution is less that total war, the right answer is a total blockade of Iran, why invade? Deprive of oil cash, the regime will collapse in three months.
Well said Saile Furman!!
You are absolutely correct Ms. Furman. As was the case with Voldemort, the Left steadfastly refuses to acknowledge one of the truths of the last 1500 years: Islam is dedicated to the destruction of Western Civilization and society. It is not merely a religion – it is a socio/economic/political/religious construct designed to rule from the personal to the world level. While there are some differences in theology between the Persian Shi’a and the Arabic Salifist/Sunni, the end goal of both of them is world rule. There is a small chance of civil war between Iran and the Arabs, but that won’t end their long term goal – our demise.
Here’s what I would honestly like to see America do. We invite Russia, China, India, Europe and Brazil, etc. to participate in a militarily enforced mandate over every single source of oil in the middle east as punishment for how they have troubled the world with their money, rather than made it a better place.
We inform said countries they can join or not because we will act unilaterally in any event. The harm Islamic oil money has done in this world in untold. We make military precincts around centers of oil production and pipelines and force out any population. No one native to the area or Muslim can work inside these precincts. We keep this mandate in force until the oil is sucked dry. Of course we are talking almost entirely about the Gulf area. I say screw these people and their crazy dreams about suborning the West right into the very ground they walk on. Obviously the vast majority of everyday people in these Islamic polities are moderates, contrary to what people say, but let them take it on the chin for not taking their depraved leaders in hand the same way the populations of Japan and Germany took it on the chin in WW II for the same thing.
Once bereft of funds, let Islam take a long, sleepy nap and let normal people who think of going to the beach, starting a productive project and having a beer after work get on with their lives without the incessant chattering and nonsense from Islam, which never shuts up. I don’t give 2 squats for that religion and I honestly feel what Islam has taken off the table in terms of the world is monstrously more than what it has brought to the table which is virtually nothing. I defy anyone to show me different. In global terms, Islam is the biggest waste of space of any culture in the world and virtually the only one from which hate speech emanates daily.
Islam’s leadership in its more radical forms are nothing more than Nazis without the competence to have Hitler’s army. One thing’s for sure: they sure as hell wish they did and they’d use it.
Confine, quarantine. That’s it.
Good article; but I’d like to know more about how the Mullahs believe they can win a war against the US.
Many pundits believe that the regime is hoping for an attack by the big or little Satan to get back the support of average Iranians—did it ever have it? It’s always mentioned as the primary reason why restraint is the operative method for dealing with the Mullahs. One wonders, though, if this the real reason why a proportionate response hasn’t been exercised to date.
While working in a small FOB inside the Sunni Triangle I saw a B-1 do a knife edge pass overhead. Because it was far from Afghanistan I thought that Iran was about to get some of what it had been dishing out to Americans in both countries. I might as well have been seeing things.
The Iranians back down from displays of force; it’s part of the way the Mullahs do business. But it always makes them hungry for more. Does Obama and his minions get this?
Here’s how Iran can win a war against the United States. Once Iran has a working nuclear weapon they can load it onto one of their Sahib II rockets, ship that rocket to Venezuela (their ally) and fire it so that it explodes 100 miles over Chicago. The EMP that results will permanently take down the American power grid, melting the major transformers, and eliminating nearly all electric power. Without electric power, most fuel distribution and food distribution systems will fail. Even most of the best prepared Americans do not have a year of food stored up. Americans will begin to starve and we will begin killing other Americans and eventually eating other Americans. The 10% of Americans who survive will be the most vicious and bloodthirsty among us. Within a year America will resemble a depopulated Somalia. That’s how.
Even if every single electronic device in the US was fried—very, very unlikely—and the country was dysfunctional the roaming US Navy submarine force—the Boomers—would, at some point, unload on every single city in Iran and every target they could possibly think of after that—concerns about average Iranians would be off the table, to say the least. By the way, nearby Sunni Arab states would not lift a finger to help the survivors. You, my friend, need to be beamed up to the Mother Ship right away.
I believe it started during the Olympics in the 70s when a group of Islamic terrorists killed Israeli athletes. The world should have seen and dealt harshly with the radical Islamic movement then. I blame Yasser Arafat as the father of modern terrorism in the Middle East.
“The fight is at home…” and that is definitely a ‘doh’! Of course it is at home because we refuse to define our international relations based on our proven Constitution and Bill of Rights. If we denied all aid and visas to any country and it’s citizens because they couldn’t support the First Amendment we’d finally have a line in the sand. Those on that side would really be the Little Satans, enemies of true freedom. Man has tried for thousands of years to develop all different kinds of governmental forms and now, NOW, that we have the most perfect we insist on letting the uneducated, cousin-marrying, thieves in the world deny what is obvious–America is the greatest country in the world BECAUSE of our Constitution! Until we start acting like we believe THAT, we’ll continue to have to listen to your stupid arguments about how we can act different than the European losers by acting like the European losers and denying our heritage. Gifts from God should not be ignored in your daily life!!!
I’m starting to wonder if a two-pronged tactic against Iran would work. First, dramatically increase all covert operations inside of Iran and supply as much weapons, money, and military training to as many rebels inside of Iran as possible. Also, give the Kurds anything they wanted. They have been a thorn in the sides of the Iranians (as well as the Turks, whom I despise as duplicitous traitors against the west) for decades. Now’s the time to help them give the Iranians an even harder time in northern Iran. Let us start waging the same assymetric warfare that terrorist groups like Hezbollah wage against us and Israel.
Second, if we actually HAD a smart president, we would be dramatically increasing all of our energy resources here in this country, meaning oil, coal, natural gas, and nuclear energy. Everything. If we did that, we would have so much oil (especially off of our coasts and from Alaska) that we could probably even sell China any oil they would lose from a temporary Iranian shutdown due to either a rebellion or revolution. As long as the Chinese are getting what they want, they won’t care if Iran is off line for a few months, or even a year. If you can’t beat your competition, like China, buy them off. That would give us more than enough time for our covert activities inside of Iran to overthrow the government.
There is no need to bomb anybody in Iran. Let the weight of that fetid government collapse down upon itself. All we need to do is give it a good shove.
When the Dutch were the colonial power in Aceh they had a big problem with islam, after a dozen failed military efforts the consulted an expert on Islam. The solution was very simple, ignore the howling mobs, go after the Mullahs. They did so with a vengeance and no more problems. Iran has two major population groups that hate the mullahs even more than the US, the Kurds and the Balooch. Use them.
And Azeris. The biggest tribe, I think. Pity the Baha’i are so non-violent…
Given the verdict of the Shalfi murders in Kingston, Ontario, those who want to see will see that despite the best efforts of those who want to put a human face on Islam, they will fail like Dubcek, et al., did in Prague, 1968.
We have had 14 centuries of evidence accumulate as to what is in the minds of, at least some of those who have said the Muslim confession of faith in Arabic, regarding those who do not do the same.
Dhimmitude or death.
Well, the choice has always been before us. Right?
One of the strategic failures we had in the Viet Nam war was that we, generally, refrained from invading Cambodia and North Viet Nam with ground troops in our efforts to destroy the enemy. The North Vietnamese were not constrained by such 19th century niceties as national boundaries or neutrality. We did use air forces, however, against the enemy. (We Americans, even as early as the late 19th century in the wars against the Plains Indians, disdain such things as hand-to-hand combat in favor of more distant technologies of death: rifles, artillery, air bombardment, missiles and, Obama’s favorite, drones.)
Rather than fighting secondary battles in Iraq and Afghanistan, we should have fought our battles directly in and against Iran. In light of our disdain for “boots on the ground”, at this point in our long struggle with Islamic extremism we should consider the following options in Iran: !.) a naval blockade to prevent Iran from importing refined petroleum products, primarily gasoline. (Despite Iran’s oil resources, it imports most of its fuel.); 2.) a replay of “shock and awe” against Iran’s nuclear industry, its electrical industry, and its tele-communication infrastructure; and 3.) the explosion of a few well targeted EMP (electro-magnetic-pulse) nuclear devices above Iran which, if successful, would destroy all electronic devices within the devices’ range, everything which has a microchip in it: cells phones, radios, televisions, computers, as well as the sensitive computers, switches, and monitors used in its nuclear industry.
This would be a highly effective response to thirty years of “Death to America.” Yes, many innocent people would die as “collateral damage”. But, the lesson of World War II’s obliteration of Nazi Germany and Japan’s Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and even our American Civil War’s Sherman’s march to the sea is that long lasting peace can be achieved only by the complete destruction and prostration of the enemy.
You got it right!
Writers like Tinsdall and the NYT staff actually want to see the US/Israel go to war with Iran. That is why they keep pushing up ‘evidence’ that it will happen any day now.
For one thing they are bored. There are no really good wars to write about now. Afghanistan is old news and that was the ‘good’ one anyway. Syria is just embarrassing to think about. Israel has been rather quiet. These people have built a whole career on the America Zionist imperialist warmonger meme and they need some fresh material.
By drumming up the war chant during the Republican primaries these newspapers are doing their public service help Obama in the fall. Actually Obama is pretty much following the path of his predecessor now that he has had a number of doors slammed in his face, but the only important point for them is getting him elected again. Maybe they can bring him back to the Progressive fold somehow.
These people actually love war. It excites them. It gives them a reason to be out on the streets carrying signs. It confirms everything they believe about the evil doings of those Red Staters out there whom they must oppose to save us from ourselves.
Those who take the Iran situation seriously see military attack as the option of last resort. They do not want war and dread the prospect. Looking at what Israel and the US have actually done every action supports that view.
I do not know how this will turn out. In certain games the strategy is to keep playing until the opponnent makes a mistake. Things are not going well for Iran lately.
Things are going well enough for the Islamic Republic. They are winning. We are losing. So far, we have been frustrated or defeated at every turn of this conflict.
Things are not going well for the USA, is who things are not going well for. When the IRI crosses the nuclear threshold, things will have gone very badly indeed.
We don’t get to decide whether we’re at war or not. The IRI decided that 3 decades ago. We do get to decide whether we win it or lose it. They IRI has calculated, correctly so far, that we’ll decide to lose it.
We should help create further the “Reestablishment of the Ancient Nation of Kurdistan” (a la the KGB’s creation of Palestinians).
We should mke a loud alliance with the “Brave, Proud Armenian People,” who endured “hard-times” at the hands of their Turkish taskmasters. Maybe even a Monument to the Armenian Genocide, or at least a Congressional Resolution.
We should help to create a civil war between the Hashemites and the Palestinians in Palestine, oops…I mean Jordan, which is nothing but the creation of the “Zionist, Imperialist, Colonialist Western powers.”
We should flood Iran, Turkey and Iraq with Afghani opium (if we are not alraedy doing this), which we control.
We should secretly support the creation of the new Bedouin nation in the Sinai, including weaponry and a made-up history, to breakaway from the oppressor Egyptians, who of course stole the land from the indiginous Bedouin inhabitants.
We should support both sides of the Syrian civil war, so that they can keep killing each other for a long time.
Just a small start…
Not only has there been war between the USA and Iran since 1979, but also ever since Islam got its marching orders from Mohammed, a war has been the state of affairs within humanity. Ah, how many people have been forced to “convert or die”, in the name of religion?
I remember reading about the Know Nothing political party, way back when. Well, for way too long, now, America has been led by the DO NOTHING party, whether a Bush, Clinton or an Obama is in the White House.
I just finished a sci-fi dystopia by Fred Hoyle, “October The First Is Too Late”, from 1966. He was a physicist from England, who believed in the steady state universe. The play with time, over six thousand years, was all about the regular cycles of humanity, to wit the inevitable “pot boiling over” events, that culled the population—and led to the resolution of survivors to never repeat the same errors, AND the inevitable forgetting of them, on and on.
It reminded me of my longstanding realization that sooner or later, some “maximum leader” or other, say of Iran, will DO something so horrible, the president will have to react. Or, more likely, the Israelis.
Either way, given the born condition of humans, as separate selves VERSES myriad others, fear is regnant. Ergo, those people who attain the highest leadership positions, at least via free elections, are quite animated by the desire to DO NO HARM.
That is, of all the things they fear, WAR is number one. I have no doubt that any rational aspirant for president of the USA, say, has in mind, 24/7, what their legacy will be, and they ALL want to be known for maximum peace and prosperity. Maybe there ought to be a running metric, recording, on a daily basis, how many Americans are killed defending this country.
Thanks for your random reminders of the WAR truth, Mr. Ledeen.
The U.S. has been at war with Islam since 1801.
We built a Navy, we built the first Six Frigates to combat an Islamic threat. Washington signed the bill authorizing the ships. Jefferson in an undeclared war, but with Congressional approval set some of those ships against the Barbary Pirates. The Barbary Pirates motivation was same as Islamists today, The Caliphate.
Michael, it looks like the epidemic of selective vision rages on inside the Beltway. Richard Pipes, in his autobiography, sheds light on it.
As long as Khameini, Ahmadinezhad, and others are profoundly influenced by the similarity between Ishtar and Allat (I recommend, “The Gifts of the Jews” by Thomas Cahill for a succinct description of the goddess of war & love, and seeing that Allat is what we get from Aphrodite being translated into Arabic, for Allat is the feminine version of Allah), there is more cause to conclude that those with blood on their hands, have better bona fides of being Muslim, than those who accomplish the will of Allah without the shedding of blood.
Hey Mr.Michael Ledeen, you idiot, just tell me why another nation would call us the devil. DUH….. We messed with their nation years before the I-O-Tol-La declared war on us when we had our CIA overthrow their leaders and help install the Shaw. This self righteousness of our media pundits spouting pure BS is about all I can stand.
Do you idiots think every other nation on the face of this earth needs to bow to our idea of democracy, or even to our moral codes. It doesn’t make a GD difference whether we consider our ethics moral or not, it does not give us the right to force our beliefs upon anyone else. AND, that is exactly what your Moderate Drivel is saying. Iran has every right to a “Bomb”, just like Pakistan, India, Israel, North Korea, etc, etc. You idiots think it is OK to allow some countries to have a bomb if it suits our need for resources.
Of course it is easier to attack Iran than North Korea because NK is in China’s back yard. What cowards we are proposing to attack Iran. Americans are being lead down the rosy path with a ring in their collective noses.
This warring sickness must stop and you NeoCon jerks must take a step back and reevaluate your position, if you consider killing other humans justifiable, which is hinted at in your article, but not stated outright. You are cowards !!!
Dear Sir, neither Iran, nor Pakistan even nor another evil Islamic regime have the right to possess the Bomb. Those countries form a real threat to international security. Yes, they MUST bow to the idea of democracy and freedom. Iran was an secular state, yet, bowed by force to a bloody regime. Iranians bowed forcibly to the worst human rights that brought by Mullahs regime. Iran today is the mother of international terrorism, while Pakistan is a hotbed of al-Qaeda and terrorists…they certainly revel in the destruction and murder of innocents, especially the Western….
In general, the vast majority of Muslim countries officially consider as Muslim countries 100%, where govern on the basis of Koran and Sunna (Islamic Sharia) and its emblem is “martyrdom and sword” or jihad and sword, and most of them exporting the terrorists to the civilized modern world, as well as supporting an extreme puritanical ideology does NOT respect its people, does NOT respect the right of life at anyway…and most of them look forward to possess WMD. While Israel governs on the basis of law and its emblem is “human development, enlightenment and prosperity”, where she exporting the scientists and creativity in all fields, and establish the Great Centers of Scientific Researches.
As for your enemies “Neo-conservatives or the Neo-Great people”. Dear Sir, they ALWAYS prefer nonviolent methods, while the use of force will continue to be part of the struggle. They in fact have played an effective role and a great to fell the Evil Empire (Soviet Union ), where mightily supported the democratic revolutions in Middle Europe. Then, after the Soviet Empire fell, most of middle Europe states thanked the United States, in particular, those Great people for their help.
However, I doubt that you belong to the Great Nation (aka Americans). America as the ONLY SUPERPOWER ON THE SURFACE OF THE EARTH, AND AMERICANS AS A GREAT NATION MUST be the trustees of the world’s progress, guardians of its righteous peace. The divine mission of you as a great nation to plant the American flag in bloody and benighted places, because wherever the American flag planted, it’s great, beautiful and bright. OR the other option, is to leave the world security into the hands of terrorists and to their Masters of the Leaders of megalomania, and also to the strong advocates of Totalitarian Regimes, the neutral opportunists (Russians and Chinese).
If you really belong to this great nation, so, please, enjoy this LOVELY SPEECH for one of your Great Ancestors, may you would learn how to be a Great!? It excerpted from the great speeches of the fervent exponent of American expansion overseas, the U.S. Senator Albert Jeremiah Beveridge -1898:
“American factories are making more than the American people can use; American soil is producing more than they can consume. Fate has written our policy for us; the trade of the world must and shall be ours. And we shall get it as our mother [England] has told us how. We will establish trading posts throughout the world as distributing points for American products….The Pacific is our ocean. The power that rules the Pacific is the power that rules the world. That power is, and will forever be, the American Republic….We will cover the ocean with our merchant marine. We will build a navy to the measure of our greatness. Great colonies governing themselves, flying our flag, and trading with us will grow about our posts of trade. Our institutions will follow our flag on the wings of our commerce. And American law, American order, American civilization, and the American flag will plant themselves on shores, hitherto bloody and benighted, but, by those agencies of God, henceforth to be made beautiful and bright.” “Mr. President, the times call for candor. The Philippines are ours forever, “territory is belonging to the United States,” as the Constitution calls them. And just beyond the Philippines are China’s illimitable markets. We will not retreat from either. We are the ruling race of the world. We will not repudiate our duty in the archipelago. We will not abandon our opportunity in the Orient. We will not renounce our part in the mission of our race, trustee, under God of the civilization of the world. And we will move forward to our work, not howling out regrets like slaves whipped to their burdens, but with gratitude for a task worthy of our strength, and thanksgiving to Almighty God that He has marked us as His chosen people, henceforth to lead in the regeneration of the world”……God has made us adepts in government that we may administer government among savage and senile peoples. Were it not for such a force as this the world would relapse into barbarism and night. And of all our race He has marked the American people as His chosen nation to finally lead in the regeneration of the world. This is the divine mission of America, and it holds for us all the profit, all the glory, all the happiness possible to man. We are trustees of the world’s progress, guardians of its righteous peace. The judgment of the Master is upon us: “Ye have been faithful over a few things; I will make you ruler over many things…. The ocean does not separate us from lands of our duty and desire–the oceans join us, rivers never to be dredged, and canals never to be repaired. Steam joins us; electricity joins us–the Very elements are in league with our destiny. Cuba not contiguous! Porto Rico not contiguous! Hawaii and the Philippines not contiguous! The oceans make them contiguous. And our navy will make them contiguous…There are so many real things to be done–canals to be dug, railways to be laid, forests to be felled, cities to be builded, fields to be tilled, markets to be won, ships to be launched, peoples to be saved, civilization to be proclaimed and the flag of liberty flung to the eager air of every sea….it is ours to set the world its example of right and honor. We can not fly from our world duties; it is ours to execute the purpose of a fate that has driven us to be greater than our small intentions. We can not retreat from any soil where Providence has unfurled our banner; it is ours to save that soil for liberty and civilization”……”The men we send to administer civilized government in the Philippines must be themselves the highest examples of our civilization. I use the word “examples,” for examples they must be in that word’s most absolute sense. They must be men of the world and of affairs, students of their fellowmen, not theorists nor dreamers. They must be brave men, physically as well as morally. They must be as incorruptible as honor, as stainless as purity, men whom no force can frighten, no influence coerce, no money buy. Such men come high, even here in America. But they must be had.”
Eventually, you see how that, Dr. Ledeen is a great, even he posted your venoms on his own Blog…
May God Bless you Michael Ledeen and bless all your efforts in defending the rights of oppressed people and the Greatness of that Great and Blessed country “the United States of America”. While your enemies of WIMPS, our enemies and the enemies of Greatness of America, let them rot into hell.
Jassem Othman – Syrian dissident – the land of Holocaust – Poland.
Had we been strategically serious, we’d have taken advantage of the 9/11 incident first to move our forces onto Iran’s eastern flank in Afghanistan, then later to position even larger forces in Iraq, on Iran’s western flank. By 2003, with major U.S. land and air power on either side and our fleet in the Gulf, they’d have been helpless against our next move. That’s how Napoleon or Bismarck would have done it.
Oh, wait . . . .
We were not defeated in Viet Nam. We had several failures. First, Viet Nam was a money making and power gathering operation up until Nixon said “enough”. Washington had been pretending to fight, in order to justify paying their supporters for weapons, etc. Second, the KGB took over the education and news/entertainment industries in the US, scoring a grand coup (inside line for propaganda). Third, the Democrats refused to honor the treaty we had with South Viet Nam due to the propaganda coup, allowing South Viet Nam to be destroyed.
All it takes is an iranian nuclear weapon placed in or near the straits of Hormuz.
Then the iranian threat of setting it off.
Shipping comes to a halt, insurers will not insure ships and cargo against a nuke.
No one will attempt to destroy or deactivate the nuke for fear of setting it off.
The nuke will become one giant IED held by a suicide bomber in Tehran who is quite willing to set it off to bring on the end times.
The nukes must be stopped before they are built/bought once in place they are effective blocks to shipping and to any military attempts to protect shipping.
sending a sub with a NWBIED into the Suez canal would do the same.
Venezula hosting an iranian sub/ship could aid the iranians placing a NWBIED in the Panama CZ and if you start picking choke points that can be shut down by these tactics you will soon see gridlock on all shipping through these areas.
What would the romans do?
Two Roman examples:
1.) They completely destroyed their chief trading competitor, Carthage.
2.) Where they could not destroy, they isolated, as in the instance of the Picts (present day Scotland) who were kept at bay by the fortified Hadrian’s wall which stretches from the east cost of Britain to the west coast, and can still be seen today.
Revenues Spending Deficit Debt GDP Percentages http://bit.ly/jnfQMr
Defense Spending http://bit.ly/hNKDG6
I didn’t need to be reminded that the present war with Iran started in 1979. And we have suffered defeat after defeat. Reagan pulling out of Lebanon after the marine barracks bombing, Bush Sr. stopping half way to Baghdad, Clinton and the USS Cole,the twin towers and probably Oklahoma City. All defeats. At least in muslim eyes.
I was for the war in Iraq but then W fought a politically correct war, resulting of course in another defeat, at least in muslim eyes.
If the jokers in D.C. can’t convince the enemy that we’re winning, I guess they can’t convince me that they should be called leaders.
Iran is the major power in ME that threatens Saudi Interests.
Saudi Arabia is the world’s largest funding entity of Terrorism, in addition to the Wahhabi school organisation that even has branches in America.
Take out Iran, and we remove the only remaining obstacle to Saudi Arabia’s dominance in terrorism, we already removed Saddam for them. Think this though entirely and stop playing one move at a time.
Saudi Arabia funds terrorism on global scale far exceeding Iran, and have been for over 300 years. The house of Saud is the problem, not Iran. We will very soon have a problem many times larger than Iran facing us, it will be Saudi Arabia and they will be our undoing.
I have missed something; I did not know that the USA had even decided to fight. I will take time to remember October 23, 1983. This enemy that we are facing slaughtered 241 US Marines. Our spineless leader did nothing and the enemy stated that,” they ran like dogs with their tales between their legs.” Would Truman had stood by and did nothing? “The buck stops here.”
I agree we have been at war with Iran from 1979 to present. However, the world system is taking on Syria supported by Russia at present. I suspect, Syria has to be given to the Muslim Brotherhood first before Iran can be sidelined.
It is more of a gut feeling watching the world government, I mean NATO, help the Muslim Brotherhood in North Africa, and Egypt. Those that do not go along with the agenda appear to be slated for death.
I thought Billery did not support the death penality. Perhaps, only in the West.
‘The War’ actually started in 622ad when the literal and figurative ‘anti-Christ’ Muhammed initiated the first Jihad attack in Medina, cementing Jihad Theology as the central pillar of Islamic canon.
This was the beginning of THE ISLAMIC WORLD WAR, which has raged virtually unabated for 1,400 years, against every kind of people and culture, acros every continent. It is a civilizational conflict for Islamic totalitarian dominion across the Earth.
The current conflicts in the Middle East, India, the Philippines, Thailand, Russia, China, Indonesia, Malaysia, North Africa, Nigeria, Israel, Europe and throughout the Americas are all just battles in this larger ISLAMIC WORLD WAR. The same hold true for the Barbary Wars, the partition of India, the conquest of Persia, the invasion of Eastern Europe, the subsumation of Spain, and the conquest of North Africa.
Oh, yes, Mr. Ledeen is right….it’s on. But in truth it has never been off.
And the hard truth is that it will never end until the supremecist totalitarian ideology of Islam is thoroughly exposed, discredited and destroyed.
Militarily, it might take something as significant as the destruction of the Kaaba in Mecca, along with the Mosques that propogate this vile creed. As history shows, the only time the advance of Islam is stopped is when someone stops it by force….and sadly for humanity, it’s always bloody.
Destroy the messenger, Muhammed, destroy the message. Destroy the Kaaba, destroy the Hajj. Destroy the Hajj, no more Hajji’s. No more Hajji’s, no more ISLAMIC WORLD WAR.
I know this sounds politically incorrect, but either we are in war or we are not, and if we are it will ultimately come down to this….or else Islam wins.
~ The Infidel Alliance
The sanctions could work if Russia and China supported them. We need to look more deeply into why they also support Assad in Syria. Iran and Syria are enabled by Russia and China, especially in the UN Security Council. It isn’t a simple fight over oil. Russia exports more than Iran does.
The crucial factor with Islam are the Trillions of dollars of oil money flowing to the various Arab and Muslim societies. If we’d dumped Trillions of dollars into any other society, they too might have decided that it was a message from God to take over the world. Islam was much less of a problem when it was poor, as in 1900.
If military action is needed in Iran, I think we can agree that Iraq-style nation-building is too expensive in blood and treasure. It’s easier to simply wreck the place and cut off all the oil money. In the worst case, seize the oil fields and make sure that the Atomic Ayatollahs aren’t able to rebuild the nuclear and military facilities we’ve destroyed. We’d have to assure our European and Chinese trading partners they’d be getting their share of the oil.
Regime change is probably less useful than impoverishing Iran. We had a friendly government in the Shah, but he was replaced. Enduring poverty is more reliable. If we’re feeling bad about this, we can always give the money saved to poor people somewhere else; there’s no shortage of the poor.
have said it before, and will say it again: it’s time we faced up to the sad, harsh fact that jeremiah wright’s hate-filled “god-damn america” is a mindset and an emotion more widely held and deeply felt today across our country than we could have ever imagined, and is now fully entrenched in the white house busy waging war on behalf of our enemies without, upon us.
had obama not become president, we would have already dealt effectively with iran.
” Iran and the United States had very warm relations before the 1979 Revolution, after all. The Carter administration desperately sought warm relations with Khomeini et. al.
The Iranian regime was not interested then, and there is no good reason to believe they are interested now.”
Um, Michael, did you miss that little incident that happened in 1954 where the CIA overthrew a democratically-elected prime minister, Mohammad Mosaddegh? Yeah, THAT CIA coup.
Mosaddegh had made the mistake of proposing a change to the oil contract with Britain where the Brits got the gold and Iran got the shaft – an arrangement that had been going on since 1913. The Anglo-Persian Oil Company (later British Petroleum) refused an Iranian offer of 50-50 income share of the oil. Iran nationalized the oil industry and set aside 25% of the profits to pay the British for their assets. The Brits turned to the Americans for help and the CIA got to overthrow their first government. Cool, huh?
This led eventually to the U.S.-backed Shaw and his tyranny and that led to the overthrow of the Shaw, the capture of the American Embassy personnel, and the current situation where the U.S. and Iran don’t have diplomatic relations. So, when you ask why they hate us, you just MIGHT include the most basic research in your answer for you can be sure that to every school child in Iran the details of the coup are as vivid as Valley Forge is to Americans.
But, then you ARE a Neocon, Michael, and such details don’t fit the meme of “American Exceptionalism”, do they, unless by exceptionalism you mean we don’t have to abide by international law or even basic morality.
February 1, 2012 – 9:49 am Link to this Comment | Reply
Again, this nonsense. Mossadeqh was not elected, democratically or otherwise. He was appointed by the shah.
Before you climb onto your high horse to lecture the stupid Americans, it would be good to get the facts straight.
From Wikipedia (admititly NOT a definitive source but pretty reliable):
“On 28 April 1951, the Majlis (Parliament of Iran) named Mosaddegh as new prime minister by a vote of 79–12. Aware of Mosaddegh’s rising popularity and political power, the young Shah appointed Mosaddegh to the Premiership.”
So, your point seems to be a distinction without a difference; Mosaddegh was APPOINTED because he was voted in by the Parliament.
Any questions?
I didn’t think so.
But, I notice you have NO comment regarding the coup. Funny, I would have thought you would have tried to justify it SOME way.
Maybe he should also get himself up to date on the history of the Ayatollahs, especially Ayatollah Kashani, who was the forerunner of Khomeini, and their opposition to Mossadeqh?
Cynic, it doesn’t matter what the history was between Mossadeqh and the Ayatollahs, the point I was making was about the image Iranians have of America due to the coup that took out Mossadeqh. The rise of the Ayatollahs probably wouldn’t have even happened if we hadn’t set in motion the chain of events that led to the Shaw.
Same point to Michael, how Mossadeqh became prime minister (appointed vs. elected or both) is beside the point. You complain of American efforts for better relations but ignore the toxic environment – CREATED BY THE U.S. – within which those efforts took place. To complain of the failure of Iran to respond while seemingly being ignorant of our responsibility for the coup, the Shaw, and ultimately the eventual rise of the Ayatollahs in response, is just scary stupid.
this is fantasy history, i’m sorry to say. and you’re spreading myths that make good relations more difficult, at least with those few who obsess over Mossadeqh.
So, Michael, help me out here. What part of my history is “fantasy”. I don’t think I’m obsessing over Mosaddegh nor is the history that I mention “fantasy”. Certainly the Iranians don’t think so. And THAT is my point to you; the Iranians have had some nasty experiences at the hands of Americans and thus the ill will. Is that not accurate?
If not, please fill me in here on what I’m missing. Are you dismissing this coup or think it is somehow irrelevant to the history between these two countries? Obsess with me for a moment and explain how it doesn’t seem to matter to you.
the claim that Mossadeqh was “democratically elected.” is fantasy. if those words mean anything, they mean he won a popular election. but he was appointed by the shah. more than once, in fact: http://partners.nytimes.com/library/world/mideast/041600iran-cia-mossadegh.html
of course “it matters.” there was certainly a coup. indeed there were two: the first drove the shah into exile, the second brought him back. both were the results of mass demonstrations, not “democratic elections.”
if there was a major foreign hand in the pro-shah coup, it was the British hand. CIA went along, as the recently declassified documents show. but the major players were Iranians, not foreigners. MI6, with CIA in tow, supported them. the fantasy is that all of this was imposed on the Iranians…which in turn is part of the ongoing fantasy that 1979 was also a foreign plot, rather than an Iranian revolution. which it was. i wrote a whole book about it, with William Lewis, called “Debacle.” Have a look.
The problem with many of us who oppose the regime in Iran is that we have a tendency to look back rather than forward and spend time chewing our cods over what could have been if such and such a thing did not happen so many years ago. Well, it did happen, so now what? It is probably good intellectual onanism (thank you Dr. Ledeen) to ponder if my aunt had a penis would he then be my uncle?
And, anyway, as I mentioned in a previous post the argument that had Mossadeq not been overthrown the Ayataollahs would not have been successful in 1979 is patently false. As I said, Mossadeq, by nationalizing the oil industry, the only exportable commodity of Iran, created a generous kitty bank for the government who no longer relied on the population for revenues in form of taxes and therefore not answerable to the people and prone to massive corruption that ensued. The Shah is also guilty of perpetuating that. Had Mossadeq or the Shah privatized the oil industry rather than gifting it to a buunch or moronic bureaucrats then maybe your argument would hold water. Forget 1953. Forget 1979. Lets deal with things as they are in 2012.
Exterminate the Iranians.
Vaporize the Iran country and their cities one by one with thousand Triton and Titan nuclear missile.
Iranians aren’t Muslim, they lied, and they think can deceive the real Muslim countries population.
Iranians are Zoroastrian, they are real Zoroastrian, they worship fire, they ceremony the last Wednesday of the year, charshanbeh suri, they celebrate the first day of the year in spring season, they spread the 7’s S alphabetical tradition tablecloth, they worship the Cyrus, and Artaxerxes and Achaemenian dynasty.
They don’t know what the real Islam is, just they do mimic of Islam, apery of Islam, exactly like a chimpanzee. They think can use the Islam to deceive the Arabs to convince Arabian countries for accept to be their slave. Iranians want to make Arabian countries slave by the use of Arabian holy Quran verses, Using a sacred truth and faith to make others slave. Change the Quran to a tool or weapon. Khamenei deceives many Shiite Iraqi chiefs of tribes to invite them to Tehran and gave them the teenager virgin Iranian girls for their pleasure and sexual intercourse and many other payments, money, gold and other booty to convince and deceive them to be his slave, to be his soldiers to establish khamenei plots in Middle East.
Iranians are Magus. Even their clergymen’s are Magus with a decisive appearance, turbans, beards etc.
Iranians claim, they are the HERO OF WAR.
Iranians need the war, Iranians want the war.
All the cities of Iran and absolutely their capitol Tehran need the nuclear strike. Iranians are searching for and looking for evil and wickedness, and harm to their neighbor countries. They wanted to harm the Mecca the holiest shrine of Saudi Arabia, Iranians wanted to grab the black Stone of Cube, Hjarolasvad; Iranians committed the crime in Mecca.
Wherever finding these Iranian creatures kill them. Iranians are disease, Iranians are corruption, and Iranians are the worst damn the created in this world. Those Escapees who ran away to Europe and U.S.A can decay the western society.
Iranians are AIDS, Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome, because they destroy the peace in the middle east they destroy the religion by misunderstanding and disinformation in religion and faith, Iranians are plague, they sodomized the Sunnis, when they catch a Sunni, Shiite force them to sodomy and change them to Shiite. Many of Shiites are bugger. Shiites rape the Sunnis.
Shiites are the Satanism result.
This plague will not cure; this disease is spread in the Middle East, Just a war can erase this infection.
This tumor cancer is in Tehran and just with a nuclear strike could be surgical.
Iranians are Hero of WAR. Give them war. Kill them in mass scale. Arrest them and send them to cyanide Hydrogen gas chambers.
Kill Iranians with pesticides in large scale. Iranians are plague. Iranians are evil pests wicked insects.
Exterminate Iranians and their eternal damnation regime.
Take a very long walk on a short pier. At the end of your walk you will be rewarded with 72 bedouin virgins.
Michael, thank you for the great article…As usual a outspoken and courageous…Well, I think that, the tough sanctions only will hurt the people while the ruling elite remains unaffected …on the other hand, the sanctions will be useless and ineffective, because Iran has the means to evade the sanctions through its proximity to Iraq and to other Arab States of Persian Gulf. There are main smuggling routes for goods and oil from Iraq, UAE and Oman to Iran. No doubt these networks are backed by the Iranian government and the Revolutionary Guards. So any nonviolent conflict with Mullahs it will be useless.
However, the bringing of lasting peace or freedom and democracy by using Hard-Power “sometimes” would be successful rather than brought it through futile uprisings in some places, especially in that countries that rule by evil regimes and by Sharia. Yes, The fanatic regime in Tehran and its malign Siamese twin in DAMASCUS MUST GO!!! Stop the policy of appeasement. Stop the policy of sanctimony and dalliances with all this sort of evil regimes…enough. To date, their war against you and against us continues horribly, while the net result is thousands of dead Americans, from Saudi Arabia to Lebanon and Somalia, and from Afghanistan to Iraq and Yemen. Let alone a thousands of dead of their own people and they still continues more wickedly against you and against their own people. And yet, the delusion still persists to the hearts and minds of the humiliating defeat makers in Washington.
In fact, ALL the tyrannical regimes in the region, including “Saudis” HAD MADE OF IRAQ a terror battlefield to murder Americans and their allies and to kill anyone cooperated or sympathized with them. Their dirty objective is beforehand to failure of a project of freedom and democracy that adopted by the only superpower on earth and also to destroy the Greatness of that Benevolent Great country (the USA), which is called in their Lexicon in (The Great Satan and the biggest defender of the values and principles of the infidel Crusader and Zionist). So, the United States of America and Israel and their close allies must humiliate them and discipline them, by attacking on the nuclear facilities and the military facilities, as well as the Leaders’ headquarters directly by limited strikes even if this would have to involve smart nuclear weapon.
Finally, American power always kept the peace, where the willingness of the US to project power has helped prevent wars, while the reluctance of the US to project power has often caused wars, which is why the USA, with its close allies should continue to keep the Global Peace. So, make war to keep peace!!!?
hey “lobelog,” please don’t post your blogs here. you can distort my position on “war with Iran” all you wish–free country and all–but you can’t use my bandwidth for your advertising. I’ve put you in the “spam” bin.
hey “lobelog” please do not try to post your own blog here as if it were a comment. especially when you, as usual, distort my position on Iran policy. So you have been placed gently in the “spam” bin…you are, of course, welcome to comment directly. but try to get it straight: I’m against bombing or invading Iran, and have been for a very long time.
A funny commercial out of Israel about Samsung galaxy tablet has spilled into Iran’s parliament for sanction against Samsung in Iran. Although the Ad is in Hebrew, an Iranian reporter out of Israel put the story this way:
Mossad already has sent one of his agents to city of Isfahan and now sending these 4 agents—very known in Israel—to Isfahan looking like covered-up women.
So the agent that was already there was telling them Mossad gave him a nice Samsung tablet and kept him entertained for all his time waiting there. At the end, one of the agents by mistake push one of the Apps on the tablet and explodes the Isfahan’s N. facility. It is very funny. Here is the link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Y-N5Nl71LuA
For sure if it was not for stupid Iranian Reps. No one outside of Israel would have heard of this Ad.