April 12, 2012 - 4:12 am
I read that Malaysia Airlines is attempting to have a separate section for families with kids:
If there is an airplane built for creating a zone where you won’t find children, it’s the double- decker Airbus A380. Malaysia Airlines begins flying this whale of an aircraft July 1 and is attempting to restrict families traveling with children to the all-economy lower deck…
So far no U.S. airlines enforce children-only seating sections.
While I don’t like this idea as it seems a bit discriminatory, at least if there were no children allowed in adult-only sections, men would not have to worry about being discriminated against when a child is seated next to them.
Can we put the kids in the cargo hold? Crate ‘em up, give ‘em a few juiceboxes, and give the adults a mini-vacation… parents too!
How ’bout involuntary sedation? We’ll just dart the cranky ones.
You first.
Great idea! And the kids of today can do the same to you guys when you get old enough to need help taking care of yourself.
ME First! I always get cranky when I fly…
I am firmly of the belief that this is going on right now in the US. It may not be official, but the makeup of seating is too consistent to be coincidence. If you say you have a young child, you go to the back.
I don’t think this is correct. I’ve flown with my children many times and have been seated all over the plane – sometimes even just a few seats from the front.
Just four days ago I took four separate flights with two kids, ages 3.5 years and 6 months, two international and two domestic, all with domestic carriers.
Seating was random. Some in front, some in middle, some in back.
I note, incidentally, that the domestic flights were all full, but the international ones (to Quebec) were not.
The makeup is due to the fact that airlines are now charging for seats at the front of the plane, but giving them free to frequent fliers. The Christmas and vacation fliers (aka most families) aren’t willing to fork over the extra $$ to sit at the front, so they select the seats in the back.
i think there could be an option to purchase a seat in a section that is kiddie free but to move everyone with kids into their own section is ridiculous
the list of archetypal persons one does not want to be seated next to on an airplane is long indeed and this just opens the pandora box
How do you create a kid-free zone (which you approve of) with out making a kid-full zone (which you do not)?
Add another (soundproof) wall. Project some Disney movie on it.
Meh, freedom of association implies the right to exercise discrimintion in the choice of whom one associates with, to include the making of contracts; in that sense freedom of association in the US is certainly tightly constrained by law, and isn’t an issue much worth taking into account.
I don’t happen to think it qualifies as an outrageous case of discrimination to have separate areas of public accomodation for families with children. Some grown man who wishes to test this, please try crawling into the ball pit at a McDonalds sometime and let me know how you are received (please don’t do this, there will be no good result).
Booking “screaming baby families” on an entirely separate deck of the aircraft would be a tiny bit of evidence that there is a God who loves me, in my personal opinion, although I could cite plenty of others. That would also teach the fathers to think a little more carefully before the whole “joys of connubial bliss” thing.
Gooch,
It looks like a Canadian Airline is just what you are looking for:
http://youtu.be/M4SkoJy3D0M
I’ve got four very young kids. Two are very well behaved. The others are babies and, well, act like babies.
Somehow, this doesn’t seem to bother me. First of all, if there’s a section with many kids, maybe my kids would find a little playmate among their fellow travelers? Second, as well-behaved as my kids are (and people have stopped me in supermarkets, etc to comment on that), I know that it’s impossible to keep them quiet for the entirety of a long flight. I would hate to bother my fellow passengers any more than necessary.
I say let this kind of thing be an option without objection. Hey, maybe it would be more fun for everybody?
The policy of allowing children to fly free and sit on a parent’s lap is outrageously unfair to all others–and especially to those paying hundreds of dollars to bring a pet (who is stashed under the seat like a carryon bag for which there is NO charge). To be “fair” people traveling with children should pay a premium for the “privilege” of potentially disturbing others. Putting them in a separate section could be an alternative to paying the surcharge.
If you were looking for “fairness,” you’d be trying to get the surcharge removed in the case of pet owners, not added to parents. In other words, if someone has something you don’t, you’re not satisfied to get the same thing – you have to take theirs away. Is that about right?
You’re kidding, right? Free? Yeah, until they are two. It’s not really safe to have under-twos sit in their own seat. But every other kid older than two pays the same fare you do, Nikkim. And having looked recently, there was a surcharge to bring a pet onboard, even in a carrier.
I guess most of you who dislike kids on planes dislike them off of planes too. It’s probably fair to say most of you are too wrapped up in yourselves to ask a mom traveling with a baby if she needs a hand if the baby is having problems. Or maybe too passive-aggressive to ask the parents of wild kids to get them to tone it down. You sound like a bunch of damn whiny liberals.
My problem with this is that the family seating section will become Animal House. There will be no expectations of decorum so the parents of hellions will let their kids go.
And those of us who travel with kids but who are also diligent about keeping them under control and respectful will suffer because someone we would never have bothered is worried he/she will be bothered. But then they’ll just complain about something else that makes their trip less lovely.
They have every right to do it. It’s just going to suck for those of us who don’t deserve the penalty box of the “family section”.
Yes, this.
When my wife and I travel with our small children we go to great lengths to keep them polite, to the point that we often receive compliments about our well-behaved children. This in spite of one of them being an unusually energetic 5-year-old. I want them to learn to behave around adults, not spend the entire flight in a free-for-all zone.
Totally agree. Anyone who hasn’t seen this in action hasn’t been to the cry room of a large church. Cry rooms should be a place for babies, and children who happen to be having a bad day. Instead, they’re an excuse for parents to let the kids run wild.
As a parent who manages to make my kids behave, I resent being forced to sit with people who just don’t care about the concerns of others. And it would make my job doubly difficult.
Once again, our wonderful American society wants to punish the responsible parents.
Sweet! Separate seating for families! I’ve always thought that since my family bought FOUR seats, we damned well better get special treatment.
What? You mean…?? Oh.
I feel for people who are bothered by noisy kids because I, too, have traveled when I was able to look down my nose at the riff-raff who can’t make their kids behave. Other times, I’ve been the parent who is traveling with small children awake since 3 a.m. and had to wait through several flight delays before our flight left five hours late.
Eh, that is a decision that is up to individual airlines. If enough people don’t like it, they won’t fly that airline, and the airline will lose money. In my opinion, I’d rather there be a “holding pen” for disgruntled fliers who make life miserable for everyone onboard (this includes children and adults…mostly adults).
Oh, if only families traveling were the only misbehaving/obnoxious people on an airplane. Can we have separate section for people who need to pay more attention to personal hygiene? or perhaps taller/larger people so that they don’t crowd those around them? what about non-stop talkers? or people who snore when they sleep? Can I request not to be seated next to someone who smokes since the smoke clinging to their clothes makes my eyes water? where do we draw the line. Get over it. People are obnoxious, not just small children.
I see that you are attempting to deflect the question–nice try, didn’t work.
At least when an adult misbehaves, there is the hope in the extreme cases (getting up and putting the aircraft at risk by assaulting someone) of public spirited fellow passengers administering a beatdown, at least if some accounts I have seen in the news is anything to go by. That’s not about to happen, not once, when considering small children misbehaving, equally unrealistic in the case of their parents.
Just so we’re clear on this, my fantasies of physical chastisement of the parents have never once come to me before an elapsed 120 minutes of high-decibel screaming, non-stop kicking of my seatback, ballistic experiments with food or drink over the seatback onto me, or sticky little fingers making my sleeve, or arm hair, alike sticky. And never once have I displayed bad temper. Placid and docile I am…on the inside!
Nope, I was not trying to deflect the question. I was making the point that children and their parents are not the only poorly behaving people on an airplane. There are a myriad of reasons why we don’t want to sit near other people on an airplane and it is not restricted to their age.
I totally like this idea. I hate when I board the plane with my kid and have to deal with all the jerk comments. I’m sorry people don’t discipline their kids but my kids sure as hell will behave anywhere I go and if she doesn’t I paddle her rear end. Now can we just work on the adult behavior? The worst one was traveling to my great-grandmother’s funeral and my child was being quiet but wouldn’t keep her head phones on. She was 18 months at the time but the Dora dvd was the only way I was going to keep her quiet on the emergency 4 hour flight back home. I’m sorry my great-grandmother dropped dead. I’m sorry that I had less than 24 hours to throw bags together and travel 1,500 miles. I’m even sorry I had to fly at all but the U.S. Army didn’t really give me a choice on where I was going to live. In the end my kid didn’t make a peep and I made the guy suffer threw the whole Dora dvd twice. I’d rather deal with the screaming kids any day over dealing with a childish adult.
I’ve been flying for 20 years and have always found the worries about “screaming babies” to be overblown. There’s a certain percentage of child haters in this country, who look for the smallest excuse to go into hysterics the moment a child opens his/her mouth. Goes along with the mythical “my dinner at an expensive restaurant was spoiled by a screaming brat”. Again, I’ve been dining out at nice restaurants for 20 years, I’ve never come across it. Doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen, but a child makes a peep and all of us sudden he’s a “screaming brat”.
That being said, I’d like a family section in planes, so I don’t have to deal with the child haters glaring at us everytime one of my children make a sound.
It’s the parents we are glaring at.
Well there you go! Just put these “child haters” in with the self-righteous “stop the world I’ve got a kid” parents in their own section instead. I’ll sit happily with the actual adults, and the many parents who at least make an effort at discipline.
Seriously, if you don’t notice the issue, it just might be due to you and your kids *being* the issue.
–signed, a former resident of Thousand Screaming Kids, California
given that airline pricing is based upon trying to fill the plane to capacity, I don’t see how this is going to work. What if there are extra empty seats in Grown-Up class, Family class is sold out, and a family of 4 to 6 paying customers wants that flight?
I already make it a habit to get up at oh-dark-thirty to catch the first flight out, mostly because I know it will be made up of professional fliers. And if my schedule dictates that I catch a mid-day flight, I know going in that it’s going to be rookies and families, and I make sure to pack an extra mini-bottle of bourbon with my gels and liquids.
In a sense, you could say the flights are already segregated. You just have to know the schedule for the route you’re on.
Interesting take. I can see both sides of it.
Having traveled with a well-behaved 3-year-old, I wouldn’t like to be stuck in the “screaming seats”.
However, having spent 6 hours on an overnight trans-Atlantic flight one row behind a screaming 4-year-old who was terrified when the door closed (the screaming started as the plane left the ground, and ended on landing), I could get behind it.
Perhaps we should split the difference. Parents can pay extra (say 30% extra and everyone in the family needs a seat and a ticket – no lap rides), and we might have something workable. If you know your kid is a screamer, you won’t pay the 30% to get away. If you know your child is quiet, it’s your choice to take the upgrade. Yes, it’s a pain, but traveling with kids imposes problems on everyone, and the cost you’re imposing on others needs to be recognized.
I’ll go you one better: I’ll pay extra for a child-free flight. I chose not to breed, why should I be punished?
And the world is grateful for it.
How hard is it to buy a pair of noise cancelling headphones, or would that take away your opportunity to complain?
Too bad your parents didn’t make the same decision…
Of course, though, I can understand your point of view: it is often the case that immature children see everything as “their space” and don’t like to have other children anywhere around.
I chose to breed. Too bad my kids can’t get out of paying for your Social Security and Medicare.
I don’t have kids either, but I try to take the long view: even with the brattiest screamiest kids, I’m only subjected to them for a matter of hours. When I de-plane, it’s over. I get to escape. Their parents, on the other hand… I mean, they own them, dude.
Make lemons into lemonade. Always carry earplugs with you when you travel, and when someone’s kids get going, offer them @$10 per ear to all the in-range victims.
Brian,
People actually do have dinners at expensive restaurants ruined by screaming children. Twice within the past week, my husband and I have been seated in nice restaurants near families whose children were so out of control (yelling, throwing food, etc.) that we couldn’t carry on a conversation. The parents sat there chatting, as if nothing were happening; I think they must simply become oblivious to the chaos. At the end of the meal, in both cases, the families made no effort to clean up and left their tables looking like pig stys.
I can recall my parents cleaning the area around our table with dampened napkins if my brother, sister & I made a mess while we were eating out. And, when we made noise that disturbed others, we were quickly taken out of the restaurant. We learned that polite behavior is important.
Am I a “child hater” because I enjoy a nice meal out in peace and quiet? Am I a “child hater” because I believe that parents have an obligation to bring up their children with respect for other people and for restaurant property? I don’t think so.
Same goes on planes. When I fly, I’m usually working for much of the flight, as are many other people. I would appreciate an adult section where my concentration wouldn’t be disturbed by children, who in my experience often have a difficult time flying. And who can blame them? They’re bored, belted into a seat for hours, etc. The parents try to shush them, often to no avail. Everyone is miserable.
In my opinion it would be a kindness to all involved if traveling families were seated in a separate area of the plane (dare we hope for sound-proof?).
Great, buy a pair of noise-cancelling headphones.
Maybe you should stay home so the harshness of the outside world won’t impinge on your fragile reality.
I’ve been bothered by idiots who own barking dogs a lot more than I have children, but I’m not working on a dog tax . . . yet.
Ah, as I thought … the screaming kids throwing food at the restaurant might have been yours.
Since I’ve never seen the issue you describe happening twice in a week in 20 years (with mine or other kids), perhaps you should stop dining at McDonald’s.
Apparently there aren’t enough real problems.
This isn’t new. I flew Lufthansa from Munich to Charlotte back in 2008 and they moved all of the screaming children (I remember around 7 or 8 kids) to the bulkhead row right in front of me so they could plug in a type of bassinet and the kids could (in theory) sleep. A baby slept like, well, a baby. The rest, who were primarily toddlers, fed off of each others’ screams for the duration of the flight. I sought refuge in the below deck bathroom area.
Just like Sen. Kerry’s Christmas in Vietnam this experience was “seared – seared” in my memory forever.
Some kids are well behaved, some aren’t. I don’t mind flying with the well-behaved ones at all, but my kidneys don’t need a three-hour massage from little grumpy feet in the seat behind me. And I know you parents love your children and want Granma to see them soonest, but taking a baby that doesn’t know how to equalize inner ear pressure on a plane is not kind. To anyone.
Families traveling with small children should have to put up a bond. Scaling with age, of course, so say newborn-1yr=$3000, 1-3yr=$2000, 3-6yr=$1000 and so on. If the kid behaves, the bond is refunded. If not, it goes to free drinks/aspirin/cash for all the suffering passengers. Incentive for parents to take a good hard look at how well their kids really behave, and if they get cranky on long trips, drive or wait for them to grow up.
How much do the fatties pay, the one who’s taking half of my seat? Or the smart travelers who bring carry-ons the size of a Fiat and block the aisle for 10 minutes while they try and jam them in the overhead? Or the idiots who want to recline their seat into my lap? These people are all a much bigger problem than children on planes, in my experience.
Your bond idea is ridiculous. babies are much easier to fly with than toddlers who don’t want to sit down for hours on end. I agree with the other reply: what about the fat people half way in my seat? can I pay less since I didn’t enjoy my flight? Parents don’t enjoy screaming for hours on end either – all the ones I know spend lots of time planning before they travel in an effort to have things go smoothly. But as another comment pointed out traveling always have speed-bumps for kids: different schedule (ie up early), lots of sitting, delayed flights, hunger, being tired, etc.
I agree! Separate areas for people traveling without kids would be awesome… even nice people can turn into jerks on an airplane. The worst ones are the people who travel business or first on an upgrade when I’m paying with actual money for those seats. The way I look at it, I’m paying $10-15k for those seats so I think my 3 year old ought to have his run of the cockpit and all the blinky lights and switches.
What a bunch of whiners! If this is all you’ve got to complain about, you have a darn good life! People are starving all around the world, mothers and children are dying from Maternal & Neonatal Tetanus and you are complaining about having to listen to a crying child?? No one ever told you goofballs that there was some guarantee against being annoyed in this world! Each of YOU who are whining about being inconvenienced started out life as a child and probably most of you annoyed multiple people as you were “yanked” up. Have some tolerance folks! Grin and be nice to these little ones for they are the ones who will grow up to pay our social security, they will be the doctors and nurses who will care for us in the hospitals and, later, in the nursing homes…do you really want them to remember you as the grouchy person on the plane?
First better a crying child than a drunk adult crying
second: those kid will grow up and they will remeneber whotough they were of less value
Third. i guees the whiners were born grown up
Dogs give me the creeps. I would prefer an animal free section.
As a frequent flier with an 18mo old of my own, I love this idea. Some of the newer business lounges have dedicated family areas: limited access sound proofed rooms, big screens with child friendly movies playing, lots of toys, and comfy chairs for the parents. As a parent, these are amazing. My wife and I can sit, relax, enjoy a drink, converse while our daughter plays and no one cares if she lets out an occasional squeal of delight.
The only problem with this plan is that premium fliers need a kiddo friendly area, too. Keeping in mind that we’re premium fliers, we’re probably willing to pay a, erm, premium. But I’m not going to suffer in coach if you don’t let me buy my kid a business ticket. I’m just going to give my money to your competitor.
First airline to come out with a plane that has a ball pit below deck wins. My kiddos aren’t toddlers anymore (not that they were screamers even then), but man, being able to take them to a play area after reaching altitude would have made the trans-ocean flight seem much shorter back in the day. For that matter, an infant “cry booth” anywhere on board would have been great.
Why do so many people have their knickers in a twist? This is capitalism at work. It most emphatically is not a tax, as someone upthread said. If enough people think it’s a good idea then it will be a success. If not, then it won’t and they’ll change their policy. In the meantime there are many other carriers to choose if this offends you.
I’m a mother and I did fly when my now teenage kids were babies and toddlers. But we tried to limit our flying because, frankly, it wasn’t easy for us and probably wasn’t pleasant for the people sitting around us. Our sons were very active as toddlers and we had to walk them up and down the aisles and do everything possible – read stories, watch movies on the computer, give them snacks, take them for little walks – just to keep them occupied and try to avoid a meltdown. As babies we always tried to make sure they were drinking a bottle during takeoff and landing to help equalize their inner ear pressure. We were as responsible as it’s possible to be – and still they sometimes cried or screamed or kicked. That’s just the way it is. Since the flights weren’t exactly a treat for us having a family area would have been a relief. I wouldn’t expect it to be restful or fun but it’s never those things when you’re travelling with a small child or baby. And as someone now travelling without small children, I would welcome not having to deal with crying babies or kicking toddlers. On a recent flight my seat was kicked repeatedly by the five-year-old sitting behind me. I feel for the parents, I really do – been there and done that – but if I could avoid such unpleasantness I would gladly do so and maybe even pay extra for the privilege.
Of course there are other people who are unpleasant to deal with on flights. But some airlines have started making fat people buy an extra seat if they can’t fit into one seat. I think that’s terrific. I don’t like heavy perfume or the smell of cigarettes and I’ll ask to change seats if it seems too bothersome. Headphones are a great way to shut up a talkative seat mate. It’s a lot harder to deal with unruly kids. I wish Malaysia Airlines much luck with this.
So on my last trans-Atlantic flight, there were two Germans behind me that kept there overhead lights on and their window open while they loudly talked the whole flight. To my left was an old lady from India who apparently had religious convictions about not showering. In front of me was a guy who weighed 270lbs – I felt sorry for the poor guy next to him who ended up with half a seat. And my kids? THEY DIDN’T DISTURB A SINGLE PERSON THE ENTIRE FLIGHT.
.
Airline companies are losing money as it is thanks to TSA. Word of advice: implementing this stupid policy will only make things.
I remember my honeymoon flying back from Tahiti, we were up in the very front of the plane, which was, naturally, full of french people. We had to spend the whole flight with blankets over our faces, the stench was incredible. I’d really like to see a hygiene check implemented.
As to the kids, I have two, one is in the terrible twos, and I can say I would love to have a “family section” on the plane. Having to have the ticket agents re-work the seating so that you are sitting together is a PITA. The problem is bigger than just kids though, overweight, loud, smelly, you name it, the seating is just too damn random. But it might not be fixable at all. One issue that would come up is the “sorry you can’t go on that flight because the family section is full” situation. Love to see that one play out…