‘Obama Defends Ground Zero Mosque Plans’
Two words. Unforced error:
President Barack Obama on Friday endorsed plans for a Muslim mosque two blocks from ground zero in New York City, declaring that “Muslims have the same right to practice their religion as anyone else in this country.”In remarks prepared for delivery at a White House dinner celebrating the Islamic holy month of Ramadan, Obama said all Americans have the right to worship as they choose.
“That includes the right to build a place of worship and a community center on private property in lower Manhattan, in accordance with local laws and ordinances, Obama said. “This is America, and our commitment to religious freedom must be unshakeable.”
Obama emphasized the point as New York City is immersed in a deeply sensitive debate about whether a mosque should be built near the site of the World Trade Center’s twin towers.
It was the president’s first remarks about the mosque controversy. The White House previously called the matter solely a local one.
At the dinner attended by two Muslim-American congressmen, Obama acknowledged that hot-fire emotions the planned mosque and cultural center have stoked.
“Ground Zero is, indeed, hallowed ground,” the president said.
“But let me be clear: as a citizen, and as president, I believe that Muslims have the same right to practice their religion as anyone else in this country. That includes the right to build a place of worship and a community center on private property in lower Manhattan, in accordance with local laws and ordinances.
Obama said Islam is not the enemy, al-Qaida is.
The White House was much better off declaring the Cordoba House a local issue. By wading into this, if conservatives weren’t already fired up, ready to go (to coin a phrase) this November, they will be now after reading this. And as Jon of the Exurban League blog adds on Twitter, the president “even wading into the issue feeds the ‘out of touch elite’ meme. Can’t wait to see how this is framed by Drudge, Fox, etc.”
Speaking of Fox, Greg Gutfeld should likely have plenty of fun with this latest development.
Meanwhile, at Pajamas HQ, Anne Bayefsky explores a possible “Iranian Connection to the Cordoba House Ground Zero Mosque?”
Elsewhere, Blogger “Yid with Lid” has related thoughts that are well worth reading.
Update: At Commentary, Jennifer Rubin has a quote from Rep. Peter King (R-NY) and then her own thoughts:
Rep. Peter King is the first elected official to respond, with this statement:
“President Obama is wrong. It is insensitive and uncaring for the Muslim community to build a mosque in the shadow of Ground Zero. While the Muslim community has the right to build the mosque they are abusing that right by needlessly offending so many people who have suffered so much. The right and moral thing for President Obama to have done was to urge Muslim leaders to respect the families of those who died and move their mosque away from Ground Zero. Unfortunately the President caved into political correctness.”
Obama has shown his true sentiments now, after weeks of concealing them, on an issue of deep significance to not only the families and loved ones of 3000 slaughtered Americans but of the vast majority of his fellow citizens. He has once again revealed himself to be divorced from the values and concerns of his countrymen. He is entirely – and to many Americans, horridly — a creature of the left with little ability to make moral distinctions. He sympathies for the Muslim World take precedence over those, such as they are, for his fellow citizens. This is nothing short of an abomination.
More reaction as it comes in. Speaking of which, as always, feel free to have a “Shout-Out,” as the president would say, in the comments below.
Flashback: “Obama White House ordered coverup of religious symbols for Georgetown speech.”
Related: I’d say this question has now been definitively answered.
Related: As the link on the National Review page to Victor Davis Hanson’s latest op-ed reads, “These days, an insular yuppie as president may not be the Democrats’ best asset.”
And how.
Related: Josh Trevino quips, “Man, and we threw out Jimmy Carter just for telling us to wear sweaters.”
Heh.™
More: Blogger “Irish Spy” tweets, “I wonder how many D candidates are facepalming right about now, knowing they’ll be asked if they agree w/their leader on the GZM?”
Update: Glenn Reynolds adds, “It’s the return of the ‘damning but.’” Meanwhile, Jon of the Exurban League has “an uncomfortable thought:”
Imagine yourself on the evening of Sept. 11, 2001.
As you sat there in shock, what if someone had told you that in 10 years, the World Trade Center would still be a crater. However, just off of Ground Zero, a gigantic, 13-story mosque would be erected. A mosque endorsed by President Barack Hussein Obama.
You would have thought we had lost a war, wouldn’t you?
Note the first comment to Jon’s post.
Looks like Obama has given the Dems yet another reason to run away from him. It’s one thing when your party cohorts avoid you when you visit their state. It’s another thing when those same cohorts start voting with the *gasp* Republicans!
I’m so disgusted with Obama that if he came to my front door, I’d slap his face and tell him to get off my property. However, there may be a silver lining in this latest anti-America travesty.
And the St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church, Christian, is not allowed to rebuild after falling tower 2 destroyed it. City officials want to limit its height in relation to the memorial, while the mosque will be allowed to have 13 stories.
Hadn’t heard that, but it doesn’t surprise me. It seems that the moderate moslems only believe in sensitivity by thee and not for me.
It is blatantly obvious that this ‘mosque’ will be co-opted by the more extreme elements in the ‘faith’.
Shores of Tripoli in reverse.
This needs to be played up more, a LOT more.
The same goes for the covering up of Christian symbols that Ed alluded to in his piece.
The blood’s in the water more profusely than ever, and the Republicans mustn’t be shy about a feeding frenzy.
Tell me that doesn’t violate the First Amendment. It’s pure Dhimmitude… kissin’ the Islamists’ butt in hopes they’ll like us better, while supressing our own folk.
God forbid anyone remotely associated with the current manifestation of the Demoncratic party be elected to ANY office for the next several generations. This POS is the leader of said party and largely speaks for its values. May its implosion continue unabated.
Implosion fer sure: Obama to New York: “DROP DEAD”
Hizzoner, the Mayor (Bloomberg), better come out against the mosque if he wants to get re-elected now… they have a right, but should they (no) is the question.
Great roundup, Ed. Linked you here.
I wonder how many of the fine writers at HuffPo will use the same angle of “this is another non story that the right wingers are making into something bigger than it is” angle.
While Obama has made poor decisions every day that he has been in office, this might be the most emotionally jarring thing he as done yet. What an out of touch ass this man is. Like Taxpayer hinted at in his last sentence, this may be the last straw for Barack.
He’s done. This will see much of his remaining support leak away from him. The only question is if this is what the man desires, as many here often write. I don’t think Soetoro deliberately is seeking an exit, but simply refuses to back off his principles. He does have principles, the most important one being the well-being of the ummah and the spread of Islam. By now he’s proven this.
Larry.
America’s first pseudo-Muslim president, his whole ”out-reach” is a bust but he’s so devoid of ideas, he can’t adapt. This guy has no ”learning curve” –
By the way, you should take a look at the Michael Totten blog here on PJ.
Yes, Terry. Like a good totalitarian, Obama already knows pretty much everything. I have looked at Michael’s blog, just not have read the full articles.
Exactly! He finally let the truth slip out; he has taken the site of mislims. The puzzle comes together bit by bit.
The president is not your mother. It is not an office that needs to be concerned with your feeling, but making sure the constitution is upheld. He is doing his job and saying what needs to be said even though it is unpopular. Upholding the constitution has nothing to do with feelings. Grow up.
Brian N come on the only time Obama even thinks about the constitution is when he can use it as a prop. You freaking people have not a clue about history or the constitution. But keep moving in the march of folly all you ideologues always do.
This isn’t about the Constitution or the first ten amendments.Muslims haven’t been denied their rights in the US.Actually they have been coddled like infants despite their actions.
This isn’t about religion either.Islam is firstmost a political ideology.
That is what this is really about.
Your line of argument is transparent nonsense.
Any decent set of human beings would change the location out of sensitivity to the grief caused this nation. That the opposite is being insisted upon is seen for what it is-and it is vile.
To suggest there is any possibility of bringing people together through this disingenuous rationale for this finger-in-the-eye structure is vile.
“strict observance of the written law is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to the written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the ends to the means.” Thomas Jefferson
One rarely sees words any more fitting to the situations we have found ourselves in over the past couple of decades than this quote.
It illustrates Jefferson’s brilliance and it also illustrates yours for brining it to our attention.
That is a good quote. My rule of thumb along those lines is much more simple: laws are made for men, not men for laws.
It’s interesting to note the change in tactic of “living-constitution” Liberals on issues like Gun rights, Abortion rights, Healthcare rights, Freedom of Speech, etc and contrast it to a subject like the Ground Zero Mosque regarding Freedom of Religion where they will follow a suicidal-pact line of reasoning like robots. And for what? These are unbalanced people.
I love it. Thanks, Rik.
If you believe a cultural center with a swimming pool and dance studio is going to lead to the downfall of our country you have issues. Being afraid that people will convert to another religion is not grounds for treating on e religion differently. There is no room to wiggle when it comes to the separation of church and state.
“If you believe a cultural center with a swimming pool and dance studio is going to lead to the downfall of our country you have issues.”
Islam is very quickly leading to the downfall of Europe. All religions have a histoy of morbid violence and mind control, however in the times of Inter-continental ballistic missles, IEDs, and nukes, we simply can’t afford to be hospitable(i.e. politically correct).
We should try to reach a stage of enlightenment where religion is a part of our embarassing past, and for now we should probably try to rid ourselves of the mot archaic of the ideaologies.
Seriously – are you that ignorant of history? Or the nature of Islam? They teach you anything in school besides piss-on-America? My bad – stupid question – of course not.
Get a clue, pal. The world’s a very different place than the one that exists in your imagination.
OBAMA—-“Our capacity to show not merely tolerance, but respect to those who are different from us—a way of life that stands in stark contrast to the nihilism of those who attacked us on that September morning, and who continue to plot against us today.”
NIHILISM—The rejection of all religious and moral principles, often in the belief that life is meaningless.
Mr. President, were those terrorists who flew the planes into the WTC because of nihilism or Islamism? Did those who celebrated these “Islamic martyrs” around the Muslim world view them as nihilist or Islamist? Were those Muslim martyrs “rejecting all religious and moral principles and simply viewed life as meaningless?” Or could they have indeed been acting on those principles in the Quran that gave them justification for doing so? It is just two questions—Nihilism or Islamism? Should this mosque be built at ground zero or not?
One wonders if he is just being a liberal or if there are other beliefs that previously hidden from the American public are now creeping forward. I guess we will wait to see if he support optional implementation of Islamic Law certain situations.
The easiest thing to do would be to ban Islam from the United States.
D’oh! (Sure, they have “right” but “should” they? THAT was the question, but… )
It seems that his statement is trying to encapsulate more than just this Muslim community center, Oh no a terrorist swimming pool. He was addressing the fact that there have been protests of actual mosques in Tennessee, Wisconsin and California the last couple of weeks. He is just trying to make sure the american people uphold the values of our constitution. People seem willing to forget the parts of the constitution they do not agree with, but that is not how our country works.
As noted by others this is absolutely no different than building a Shinto Temple at Pearl Harbor or an American Community Center and World War II information center at Ground Zero Hiroshima.
Say,,,,, how many Christian, Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist, Animist, etc. community centers are there in Saudia Arabia or for that matter how many Churches, Temples, etc. in the muslim center of tolerance and diversity. The correct answer is a fat Zero.
Your word play and logic is utter nonsense. Go home. Thanks.
Guys – Brian N is just another liberal troll. If you just ignore him, MAYBE he’ll go away. If he doesn’t, just stop responding to his posts. He’s just using the liberal’s talking points and does not have the capability to speak to the deeper facts of the subject.
STOP RESPONDING TO HIM.
No problem there and the same with BC, oh yeah I am replying to 2Texans Not Brian N and at least I give my real name!
Keep telling yourself that.
When I held my nose to vote for McCain, I would never have dreamed that a year and a half+ hence I would be glad Obama won. The reason I am glad is that Obama is the Tea Party movement’s recruiting gift that keeps on giving! We have an upcoming November opportunity to start to flush the Progressive Movement’s sludge into the ash heap of history.
Folks, he doesn’t care what we think. Isn’t that obvious by now? I think this might finally get to the group that has stuck by him so far. I mean it is common decency to oppose the building of this 7th century barbarian cult house of hate. He knows what this means to the Islamic followers and that it represents a surrender by our nation to this scum. He chose them!
How can any decent American president who loves his country possibly take such a stand? Obama’s action is beyond mind-boggling. To me this is the most blatant evidence of his contempt for his own countrymen. He and his wife need to go. Now. As far I’m concerned this is approaching treason. If there were an open conventional war between us and the jihadists, I honestly don’t which side he would choose. Or the Democratic Party, State Department, and the American press for that matter.
Why isn’t PJ willing to publicly admit what most Americans already know, namely that this moron in the WH is a kenyan/indonesian muslim, installed there by the Bilderberg Group which wants borderless countries to be run by local, minority, non-native born, chieftains (to eliminate all traces of nationalism) towards a new world order and a world government? This fits well to the Gates and the Buffetts’ view of the world.
The “group” that installed Pres. Obama was actually a whole bunch of really stupid Americans who buy slogans, the “influenced by T.V. slogan advertising sound bites” group. Allah is not great, and neither are his messengers.
The group that installed Obama was sick and tired of the previous President who
1. started two wars and couldn’t even finish one of them
2. bankrupted our economy and started the worst recession in history
The previous President had a whole lot of help in bringing down the economy from a whole lot of people, problems started way back in the Clinton administration and exacerbated by political correctness, greed, and stupidity. Allah is not great, and neither are any of his messengers.
Would that have anything to do with the Community Reinvestment Act Started in 1977 I believe under the now second worst President Jimmy Carter (Mister Peanut)? You know the act where Barney Franks and Christopher Dodd soon to gone from the Senate where under questioning under the Bush Administration said there was absolutely nothing wrong with Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac, where Maxine Waters who is currently under ethics violations and Barney Frank gave their opinions of this said act and the health of Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae?
You know the CRA is what caused the current meltdown of our economy where people were given a mortgage on homes even with no income information or anything a sane mortgage lender would allow to even fill out the paperwork. They had Ninja loans (no income no job application) would that be what you are referring to?
If you read the comments on HuffPo, he is their hero. Standing up for the constitution that he swore to honor. Of course I have to admit, HuffPo commenters seem like twelve year olds playing on the computer. Silly posts by silly people.
You have every right to build a strip club- just not near a school
you have every right to build a cinder block factory- just not in a residential neighborhood
you have every right to build a mosque- just not around the corner from the site where muslim terrorists killed thousands
there are at least 83 mosques in NYC today
Why not build a mosque on that vacant lot next to Obama’s house in Chicago. I’m sure Mayor Daley would waive the zoning code for his friends Barry and an Imam!
I told you folks! He’s a “closet” muslim.
Not only that but also a traitor to this country! I would like to bring charges of treason against him and hope that someone well versed in such matter would help me with such a case, then if successful the Congress would all but be forced to impeach him!
Earlier this week, in a statement recognizing the onset of the Muslim holy month, Obama said that the rituals of Ramadan “remind us of the principles that we hold in common, and Islam’s role in advancing justice, progress, tolerance, and the dignity of all human beings.”
Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0810/41060.html#ixzz0wXtZp26c
Islam’s role in advancing justice, progress and tolerance? On what planet?
I am really getting sick of Obama lying and constantly attributing such greatness to Islamic culture, while he denies the greatness of the nation he leads whenever he can…
Islam is the greatest IMPEDIMENT to “justice, progress, tolerance,” and human “dignity”. Just ask a Muslim girl about to have her clitoris removed by a piece of glass without anesthesia by her father. Just ask a woman just sentenced to a life of misery and poverty because her husband said “I divorce you” three times. Just ask a black Christian or Pagan African just kidnapped to be sold into slavery.
Remember, the Quaran requires that you lie, and cheat to advance the cause of Islam, or rather the Caliphate.
It’s a dread certainty he’s not saying it out of respect for the Constitution.
If Obama was President in 1941, the United States would have lost WW2.
He would have surrendered afterr Pearl Harbor.
“15. rachel peepers
If Obama was President in 1941, the United States would have lost WW2.”
If Obama was President in 1941 he would have apologized for Lend-Lease, for militarizing Hawaii and for the embargo on oil to the Japanese. And maybe for Sacco and Vanzetti to the Italians.
As ever, deceit smiles.
Arafat was fond of saying one thing in English and just the opposite to the home team. Kinda like this guy:
http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/individualProfile.asp?indid=2462
Between the useful idiocy of our State Department and President Man-Child himself, Rauf and other “tolerant, moderate Muslim leaders” must be thinking, “There’s got to be an easier way!”
/shakes head in exasperation, opens another beer
Well, the Muslims who are behind this are Sufi. Sufis are cool. What would be cooler though is an INTERFAITH CENTER where all of the world’s religions could be represented. Plus, it’s not on ground zero, just near it.
Anyway, American representatives from all of the world’s major faiths should approach the Muslims behind the Mosque and ask them to make an INTERFAITH CENTER. Being Sufi, they would probably be open to that idea, and it would be more representative of what America is today – a multi-faithed nation.
Salam. Shalom. Shanti.
I didn’t know that Iranians were Sufi, or that they were all that reasonable. I mean, look at the way the Iranian Mullahs treat their own people… is that what you call reasonable?
Some Iranian citizens are Sufis. Just like some are B’hai and some are Zorastrian and some are Christian and some are Sunni and some are Atheist.
Sufism is pan-global.
Plus, I was under the impression that these people are American citizens.
They are NOT “Sufis.” They are Shiites–a VERY different kettle of fish. The plan for this mosque is ONLY (and exclusively) to “celebrate the triumph of the Islamists who killed 3000 of the ‘infidels’ in a single strike”…period! Shiite shop owners all over America closed their shops on Mohammed Atta’s birthday to “honor” him. Didn’t read about it in the mainstream media? Well surprise, surprise!
The sufis were never as tolerant in India as you would believe. Being mystical is NOT the same as being tolerant of other religions, especially non-Abrahamic religions:
“The Islamic conversion in India of non-Muslims into Islam has been declared to have been done by Sufi preachers who were always a very tolerant, integrative, and peaceful interpretation of Islam always using peaceful means to convert Hindus. Let us see, what the Sufi’s themselves say about their conversion methods in the early days of Islam in India.
The author of Siyarul-Arifin, Hamid bin Fazlullah is also known as Dervish Jamali Kamboh Dihlawi. He was a Sufi of the Suhrawardiyya sect who died in AD 1536 while accompanying the Mughal Emperor Humayun on an expedition to Gujarat. His son, Shykh Gadai was with the Mughal army in the Second Battle of Panipat (AD 1556) and advised Akbar to kill the Hindu king, Himu imprisoned in battle, with his own hand. On Akbar’s refusal, according to Badauni, Shykh Gadai helped Bairam Khan in beheading the blinded and fatally wounded Himu [So much for treatment of prisoners of war in Islam]. This work, completed between AD 1530 and 1536, is an account of the Chishti and Suhrawardi Sufis of the period.
Sheikh Muin al-Din Chishti of Ajmer (d. AD 1236) Ajmer (Rajasthan)
“Although at that time there were very many temples of idols around the lake, when the Khwaja saw them, he said: ‘If God and His Prophet so will, it will not be long before I raze to the ground these idol temples.’
“It is said that among those temples there was one temple to reverence which the Raja and all the infidels used to come, and lands had been assigned to provide for its expenditure. When the Khwaja settled there, every day his servants bought a cow, brought it there and slaughtered it and ate it…
[CE 1236 was the time of Qutbudin Aibak and Iltutmish, (whose reputation about treatment of non-Muslims we will discuss later) based a short distance away from Ajmer, in Delhi, with Muslim military bases all around in Punjab. The integration and tolerance towards non-Muslims is shown in the bold declaration of occupying a Hindu temple, slaughtering (imagined or real) cows in a Hindu temple and eating the beef up.]”
Read the rest of the tolerance of Sufi in the Sufi’s own actions and words http://dikgaj.wordpress.com/2008/08/22/how-islam-came-to-india-and-why-now-it-needs-to-go-from-india-4-sufis/
Raj, what you say is true about “being mystical is not the same thing as being tolerant, especially of non-Abrahamic religions” but do you think Christians or Jews are more “tolerant” of non-Abrahamic religions? Didn’t Christian missionaries spiritually colonize at least some segments of Indian society?
Probably Jews may be the most tolerant because they don’t seek to proseltyze like Muslims and Christians do.
Also it is not only “near” ground zero. They bought a building that parts of one of the planes that Muslim terrorists slammed into WTC fell and damaged it.
“Divine Impulses: Daisy Khan on the ‘divine hand’ at the mosque near Ground Zero” http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/video/2010/06/15/VI2010061502265.html
Great, a Democrat operative …
Folks still don’t get it. A Mooslim in a position of authority HAS to defend the faith. He can defend some of his actions by referring fellow Mooslims to the tactic of lying to remain effective but he can’t ignore something like this without being put on the ‘Most Wanted’ list by the majority of Mooslims rather than just the most radical of them.
Completely agree, his comments are entirely consistent with who he is.
This is surely to the surprise of absolutely no one on these threads, I am sure.
This is a nice feature. The property wouldn’t be available if it hadn’t been damaged in the attack. Talk about building on bones.
I cannot agree more. I like Obama, voting for him not a mistake. He doesn’t make all decisions without support from his staff. But I am disappointed in him for his decison to support this mosque. To me it is just another place to meet and throw 9/11 in our face. I wouldn’t be suprised to learn that this is just another terrorist cell.
To all those dumbass dhimmis, including those dhimmi NY “Jews”, who voted for the alien-in-chief, happy now?
Thing is this bodes ill in ways that go way beyond ‘liberalism gone wild’ domestic US issues, it bodes very ill for pressing foreign matters, like the international Muslim Jihad. Iran, Al-Queida, Syria, Hezbollah, Hamas etc read into this, unlike liberals they are not stupid, they know what this means…capitulation, appeasement, and ‘tolerance’ of Islamic supremacism.
As an Israeli Jew, this makes me very afraid, even most TA Jews know it is a bad sign – and that the enemy is firmly entrenched in the White House. God help us indeed.
‘unlike liberals, they are not stupid, they know what this means” very astute observation.THE difference between the Muslims and their liberal apologists.
What is a “TA Jew”?
He didn’t cave in to political correctness. He’s on their freakin SIDE.
If God forbids, you should ever run out of policemen who are acting stupidly, you can always find a religion of peace that promotes understanding by poking its finger into your eye, as a plan B. What’s next? Is the Imam going to invite the POTUS to a cranberry juice summit in the cathedral of Cordoba? Let’s hope the spanish cops won’t laugh too unsensitively. Anyway, if all the money available for visits to Spain was already spent, how about the Pima county in Arizona, for a rain check?
I think it was a ballsy, unpolitician-like thing to do. He could have folded before all your BS birther-secret-muslim crap and took the cowards way out, but nooo…. He waggled his junk right in your faces and said “Teabag this!” Awesome.
Hey Ricky, let’s make a date to meet here on Nov 3rd 2010, we will discuss who just got teabagged!
David
Remarkable, also the use of ‘teabagging’ as a derisive term. This actually symbolizes the freakish psychology of most lefties – deriding a fantasied sexual attack that they themselves, for reasons of tolerance, support as a matter of ‘choice.’
This hypocrisy then segues neatly into de-facto support of or, submission to, Islam, which is ferociously anti-gay.
Just a remarkable encapsulation of the amoral insanity of leftists.
Go Larry. The thing hasn’t even been built yet and the left is asserting its just a community center. It’s a political victory for Islam, and the more aggressive of the faith (Daisy Khan’s flowery propaganda notwithstanding). If and when it is built I predict it will devolve into what is the real likely intent. To finish the job.
I need to calm down. Obama’s remarks last night sent me over the edge…
Uh huh. Tell me, Larry, two things: Should we ban Christian churches or conservative community organizations/clubs within a certain radius of the Oklahoma City Bombing Memorial?
And, why is it that the conservative mind always goes gay on that teabag thing? You can do it with a girl, you know, Larry.
Yeah, right, we’re the twisted ones. Puh-leeese. Have you read this freakshow?
As for observaton that if you are going to ban mosques in lower Manhattan you’d have to ban churches in OKC, I don’t think government should be in the business of banning either on private property, and as conservatives, supposedly, neither should you.
Also, I think the best part in all of this is he is clearly saying to all you racist, xenophobic loons that he knows no matter what he does you’ll hate him, because you’re racist, xenophobic loons and that is never going to change. So, yeah, I think Ricky is right. You just got mooned.
It’s also pretty clear that Obama has a ‘diverse’ sexual background. No leftists ever mention this, and in fact most conservatives steer clear of the topic most of the time. On left-leaning blogs there were constant ‘investigations’ into the sexuality of Bush and people in his Admin. It’s clear that the ‘politics of personal destruction’ is mostly – not completely – a left-wing specialty.
Thanks, Carl, for revealing yourself. And I have only ever ‘done it’ with girls, but thanks for the tip….the point, again, is that people who claim to be tolerant of homosexuality deride conservatives on the grounds ‘that all conservatives are gay.’
But all you have are taunts. And, no, I am not a Christian, but good try there as well.
I wasn’t asking you as a Christian, I was asking you as a conservative. Should government make it their purview to ban Christian Churches or conservative community organizations from developing private property in a certain area around the site of the Murrah Building terrorist attack?
Display your principles.
Oh, Carl, don’t be such a predictable dolt. This has nothing to do with banning mosques in lower Manhattan and religious institutions of any stripe are irrelevant to the KC bombing. Talk about a straw man.
Really? So a deranged Christian conservative commits what was, at that point, the worst terrorist attack on American soil, killing men, women, and children, and no one of his particular “stripe” need stand back from the site in shame? Let me guess, because he was a poor example of what is a righteous religion, a “perversion” and not representative of the rest of you? OK. Gotcha. Full of it. Carry on.
A “deranged Christian conservative?” Really? I thought Timothy McVeigh bombed the Murrah Building.
i dont understand why are u linking christianity with TMcV. He did not bomb the fed building in the name of Christ, he was a lonley and deadly loon that was pretty much agnostic most of his adult life…
Yeah Ricky he is such a noble “ballsy” guy. He has thrown down the gauntlet and spit in the face of America one too many times. This will surely be the seminal event that portends his ultimate downfall. It can’t come soon enough. His credibility is shot. Even blacks are jumping ship and abandoning the Muslim born in Kenya. He is nothing more than garbage. But go ahead Ricky . Be ‘ballsy” and do us all a favor. Follow him off a cliff. REFUDIATE
Is this your way of getting us to congratulate you on graduating from HS ?
Ricky,
“He waggled his junk right in your faces and said ‘Teabag this!’ Awesome.”
Hey, no fair trying to impersonate the Professional Left!
(Ricky is satirizing them, right…?)
Obama has his priorities correct: a mosque should be built before the memorial and new office buildings. He should attend its opening ceremonies, then bow to the imams and ayatollahs there. That’s what his party is all about.
hey Ricky, you are a worthless pile of crap. I would love to meet you in a secluded location to “share” my “feelings” with you.
The Cordoba mosque will contain a 9-11 Meditation and Reflection room. The real name for this room is the 9-11 Party and Celebration room.
Ed called “Ricky” out on his witless impersonation of Maxine Waters—why not blame GWB, Ricky?
Doesn’t this whole brain-fart by the Zero remind us of the Cambridge Police situation where the Obamanation claimed he was unaware of the facts, but that the police were to blame? Maybe a beer summit with — wait, make it a Manischewitz wine-tasting among the ADL and the CAIR terrorist fifth-column nutters? Doesn’t that Ibrahim Hooper guy drink an eye-opener for his Iftar breakfast every Ramadhan?
Help me out here.
From where did this mosque idea originate / whose idea was it / what’s the rationale behind it?
Why a mosque at Ground Zero? Read the Koran and about the life of Mohammed.
Muslims build mosques on the places of their triumphs – usually right on the former site of a cathedral or synagogue.
The memorial at Shanksville Pa is a Crescent pointed to Mecca.
Islam isn’t merely a religion but an imperialist, supremacist, totalitarian form of government with illiberal religious aspects. The religion provides the cover for what are really acts of war. The mosque at Ground Zero is an act of war.
Barack Obama was raised a Muslim. He pretended to be a Christian in order to be elected.
His sympathies for Constitution and American Democracy take precedence over the irrational Islamaphobic populist rantings from the right. This is nothing short of admirable.
(And, you guys do know there already is a Mosque in the former Burlington Coat Factory…right??)
Yes, we need to allow Sharia too because nothing says “freedom” like killing gays, ‘honor’ killing women for just about ANY reason, and making little boys into dancing prostitots for old perverts. Maybe we can all dance on a few graves whilst we’re at it too…in the name of “religion”.
Sympathies for the Constitution…OK I’ve stopped laughing at you. Maybe when it serves his purpose. My dog has a higher IQ than Obama, and that says alot for the people that believe his BS. He’s a compulsive liar, and the lack of any published academic history on the guy speaks volumes.
His presidency demands a new definition for the Peter Principle.
@Bear
“Peter Principle”, love it,
aka dickhead, schmuck, prick.
You know mohammedans’ brains have two lobes
just like the khufrs,
but theirs is situated at the groin,
like their over-endowed cult founder.
For the life of me, I can not see how Bloomberg can refer to thighing a baby as part of a religion. Nor can one understand honor killing your family, or enslaving women and blacks. How is this religion?
That’s a mighty cold decision. There is no excuse to validate the infliction of suffering. Especially on the little innocents.
Shame on Bloomberg.
‘..a White House dinner celebrating the Islamic month of ramadan..’.
The White House comintues to throw 5-6 figure galas during the recession?
As for Obama. No one can be surprised by his take on the mosque matter.
Lastly, can the CiC PLEASE get some new material? The, ‘Let me be clear’ shtick has given me the gag reflex.
Obama’s unable to possess, exude an original thought. And so he continues UNMERCILESSLY to continue using the same stanzas.
A shallow, unaccomplished administration (not to mention the vast majority of the other 535 members are shallow dolts as well..) is pulling the strings, folks.
I love science and engineering
for crap cutting and BS elimination.
Can someone (did someone?) analyze
Buraq’s drivel, and post the results?
We could maybe identify how many speechwriters he uses,
which he favors, what cliches he spews, etc.
Obama’s political savvy is about as good as his golf game. The Democrats, as well as most Americans who don’t like them or Obama, to paraphrase Uber-Den Mother Nancy Pelosi, had to wait until Obama was in office, “to see what is in it.” Well, now we all know: an empty suit with fewer brains than the Three Stooges’ gray cells combined. (No offense intended to the Three Stooges; at least they knew their business.) Obama just keeps handing Americans reasons to dethrone the Democrats and him. But, don’t blame the poor juvenile too much. He is compelled to stick to the socialist playbook. What would anyone expect him to do otherwise? Advocate individual rights, capitalism, freedom of speech, and upholding the Constitution?
I fully appreciate that some will strongly disagree with my opening remark in the next paragraph but please hear me out after that.
Obama is not a Muslim.
His book Dreams … contradicts it. His father was what you may call an African Black Muslim, something vastly different from Middle East Islam Muslim Faith. Obama has no Faith or any allegiance to any Faith. In fact, he is an insult to the Worldwide Muslim Community. Please do read what Turkey is saying about his support for the man he wants to be President of Turkey next. I can go on and on.
The real truth is that Obama is power intoxicated and will use anybody, any Faith, anything available to him at the point where he deems it right for the occasion. At this point he is playing for the Muslim vote in November. Period for now. Next week he will do something else. No psychiatry has yet been formulated to analyze that man’s brain.
Obama is a much greater danger to America than Islam is.
Excellent post. I fully agree.
The enemy within has it’s boot so fully positioned on the neck of this once great republic that I don’t even have the luxury to ponder the (very real) threat of Islam at this moment.
@Ike
Sorry, I can’t accept that last thought.
Buraq COULD be removed at a moment’s notice.
Like Tricky Dicky, but quicky!
There must be some invisible line, which,
if he steps over it, he could be removed for treason
or mental health problems.
[Now, those are two cans of worms!]
And the Veep is jus biden his time…
But 1.5 billion mohammedans, lusting for a caliphate,
with 1,500 suiciders – locked and loaded – 15,000 evil
imams and mullahs spreading the lies,
150,000 CAIR, ISNA and other enablers worldwide, and
1,500,000 jihad wannabees, that is WWIII writ large.
And the so-called silent majority of oxymoronic ‘moderates’?
What of them? All polls seem to point to them siding with al-Qaeda,
the Taliban, and 100 other terrorist groups and being against the US.
They in turn are backed up by the Useful Idiots of the Loony Left:
unions, lawyers, judges, writers, Hollywood…
Consider this too: The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Mecca.
Or should that be Wahhab? How convenient for mohammedans to
indulge in ‘projection’ onto jews of their freely announced intention
of world domination, by war or peace, preferably by war.
By the way The Protocols of Zion were not a ‘forgery’
(of something existing, or real), as stated by many
who rightly decry them, but should know better.
They were a pure fabrication, based on a plagiarism of a satire:
“A Conversation Between Machiavelli and Montesquieu”.
Still they are a best seller in the Middle East
and have been frequently printed by the official Egyptian Government press.
Thank God for ‘moderate’ Egypt, home of the Moslem Brotherhood.
For a conservative like myself who a very short time ago could not envision “our” return to power, this President is the gift that just keeps giving! He must run on everready batteries.
David
BTW, in case anyone wants me to clarify my previous comment.
In the White House at present resides a man with a diabolical mind that even he doesn’t quite understand, leave alone anyone else.
Obama wants Personal Glory. I hope I am wrong because you don’t want to see it when it happens.
Is Mitt Romney or Pawenty going to say something about the Mosque or what????
This guy really doesn’t want to be POTUS, much longer. I believe he will be obliged on that.
Although I didn’t realize who had directed it until it was over, I had the misfortune of watching Roman Polanski’s (spit) Ghost Writer last night. Not badly done until you realize where the plot is going. Yes, I’m sure the only reason Great Britain would ally with the USA and Hatherton/Haliburton in the war on terror, would be that the evil CIA got to the P.M. by recruiting his wife and him in university. Hey child rapist! A more believable film would have detailed how Hezbollah got their man into the White House. Or maybe just tell the truth about how the communists actually managed to do these things way back when.
See what happens when you ‘drain the swamp’?
What I’d give to have Muddy Mud Skipper for president! (Can a goofy cartoon character do much worse at this point?)
why doesn’t this guy simply come out and admit that he is a supporter of islamoterrorist? obama is for ANYTHING that will bring this country to her knees . . . . obama is a marxist (pick your genre) and we must begin purging his disciples in november!!!
well, he’s finaly “come out of the closet”.
♪It’s just another taqiyya sunrise…♪♫
(My apologies to the Eagles)…
Good ‘un Dehlia!
I have two more words:
Golden Opportunity.
New Yorkers, Tea Party activists, and Republican activists should immediately write a bill declaring Ground Zero a National Historic Battlefield.
National Historic Battlefields can be designated with varying zones of influence of specified effects, one of which could include “offense to the survivors.”
Religious facilities could be put in the same category of relative undesirability as a porn store, with previously existing religious facilities being grandfathered in, including replacement of those destroyed in the attack such as the Episcopal church.
That sort of clause is secularly neutral on its face but just happens to exclude Muslim mosques.
A similar “offense to the survivors” clause could be used to as a hiring screen to keep the leftist power that be from simply appointing Islamists and anti-Israel loons to the “9/11 National Battleground Commission.” This can be done by defining publicly expressed views of anti-semitism by any member of the “9/11 National Battlefield Commission “offense to the survivors” and immediately disqualifying of further employment.
Think in terms of the following questions:
“Have you now, or have you ever been, a member, a funds contributor, officer, or represented a terrorist organization?
“Have you now, or have you ever been, a member, a funds contributor, officer, or represented a that calls for the Destruction of the state of Israel??
“Have you now, or have you ever been, a member, a funds contributor, officer, or represented a organization that has publicly declared that Zionism is Racism?”
You get the idea.
Then you go to Jihadwatch to get a list of disqualifying anti-semetic organizations, memberships and associations to write into this legislation.
Having prolonged public fights over that part of the legislation would be an extremely useful “Teachable moment” with the current Presidential Administration.
Words can’t convey the pain. Does the President, and for that matter the citizens of New York, think that this is only a local issue? 911 was a knife in the gut to those far away from the site just as much as to those who suffered directly. I can remember clearly the intensity of watching the aftermath and hurting for fellow Americans—and this brings the intensity right back as clear as yesterday. Far past talking, the lines are clearly drawn. I pray we get the chance for a calm, lawful, honest election.
Ike Jackson,
You hit the nail on the head with your comments.
This guy will stutter, read, bow – ANYTHING to appease that particular audience. Due to the instant gratification public and their addiction to nonsensical televeision – their memory lasts as long as a commercial break between those programs.
Many authors had written about Obama while he was the Campaigner-in-Chief in ’08 – There’s little-no substance to the man and people attach whatever platitudes he showers upon them at that moment.
His taking his FIFTH vacation since July speaks volumes of this imposter posing as POTUS..
Reading this made me feel physically ill.
This whole treasonous administration needs to be shot into outer-space, far, far away from ever doing harm to us mere mortals and patriots who actually love our country.
We’re going to need a bigger boat (and a giant fuse).
Delia, you are so right! The first couple meet the Jetsons! There is no vacation like one in outer space. I would be happy to pledge half my federal taxes to the ultimate vacay for BO and MO, but I only have enough for a one-way ticket…hmmm…
The Jetsons on permanent one-way vacay. ROTFL! Love it! Fire up the rocket launchers and the Kobe beef!
“In space no one can hear you scream”
That outta finally shut up team MOBO.
Heck, I’ll even buy the bubbly!
And I’ll throw in a space suit for MO that has not one but TWO SLEEVES. Long sleeves! Spare no expense for the space vacation! Her space suit is going to look really nifty with one of those ribcage belts that she wears, it will start a new trend at NASA. After they get through reaching out to the Muslims. And get some budget $s back….
-Seems like most of the folks here have forgotten the liberties we Americans have and have fought for.
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof……”
What part of “….Free exercise thereof….” in not clear?
This is America, and we are free to worship as we please. Muslims, Buddhists, and atheists are also part of America. It’s not just a Christian nation…..
“As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Musselmen; and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.”-Treaty of Tripoli
-This Treaty is telling about the feelings of our “Founding Fathers” since it WAS ratified by the U.S. Senate June 7, 1797.
This isn’t about ‘worship’. Who NEEDS another mosque and DELIBERATELY near ground zero on a spot that wouldn’t even be available if not for the destruction of the Twin Towers and the KILLING of so many Americans by MUSLIMS?
Have you forgotten the word “TERRORIST”? It still exists.
Do you realize the PURPOSEFUL symbolism behind the building of this supposed ‘mosque’?
Yea; He’s right, Delia.
We will let the religion that wants to kill only white people build their temple; And the religion that wants to kill only black people build their temple; And the religions that want to kill only Asian people build their temple, too.
But, just wait ’til the religion that wants to kill only cats wants to build theirs!
-I hate cats!
Delila writes:
“Do you realize the PURPOSEFUL symbolism behind the building of this supposed ‘mosque’?”
-I do understand the Bill of Rights and the U.S. Constitution. It can be no more clear. The notion of “PURPOSEFUL symbolism” sounds good until it is placed in context to the supreme law of the land. It is merely an excuse to deny 1st Amendment rights to a class of people. Our history time and again has rejected the claims of a majority to infringe on minority rights.
“The time for double standards that allow Islamists to behave aggressively toward us while they demand our weakness and submission is over,”
-Newt Gingrich writes adding that the decision over whether to build the facility was “a test of the timidity, passivity and historic ignorance of American elites.”
What you and Mr. Gingrich don’t understand is that it takes more strength and fortitude to maintain adherence to our laws which is what makes this nation great (-and it is the Constitution i swore an oath to uphold when I joined the U.S. Army many years ago….), along with the people who truly understand our history.
Fine, and when “CAIR” throws one of its typical hissy-fits when the Pork Worshiping buildings are erected near every single mosque in the USA with the scent of bacon coming out of it 24/7 don’t cry foul. Don’t forget the Gay bar for Muslim men on the other side of each mosque.
“Offended”? BFD.
David W Walters, you do this for laughs, right?
First David, no one is denying muslims their 1st amendment rights, that’s why there are mosques all over the NY area. Think hard now David, ready? Building permits, ramifications thereof please, no glib answers now, be serious. And speaking of 1st amendment rights, is that not precisely what the opponents of this PARTICULAR location are exercising?
I really don’t wish to deny you your urges to a supposed moral superiority but there is no denial of constitutional rights here.
Thanks for the little lecture on the 1797 treaty and the moral posturing connected to it. You left out one little thing; subsequent to that treaty we went to war with muslims, the Barbary Coast War, something about piracy & slavery, a mere trifle, a minor detail to be sure to one such as yourself.
Anything else you care to lecture us on?
The supposed moral superiority captures the PC position that Walters well embodies. They hate anyone ‘telling them’ about morality, and deride ‘Judaic-Christian’ concepts as a matter of, well, faith. They then defend, full-throttle, Islamic expressions of ‘teaching morality’ which is provably ‘teaching immorality’ that became so as a result of Muhammad’s corruption and theft of previous religious texts. Important point – they will tell you over and over that they can’t follow a ‘moral code that is 5000 years old’, then emotionally identify with a 1400 year old anti-code. A series of policy planks for world conquest, elimination of human rights and subjugation of infidels.
Then they tell you that they are enlightened. Those like Walters that actually discuss things with the retrograde reactionaries like us are a rarity: most simply demonize anyone who does not condone Communist and Marxist leaders and atrocities.
It is all about inventing a new religion, which is to be some sort of amalgam of infantile self-indulgence, Communism, Islam and fascism.
johnt,
So tell me, how close to “sacred ground” can a mosque be? Is there a standard there, as in 500 feet, or a mile….what is it?
It has everything to do with religious freedom; what part of “……prohibiting the free exercise thereof….” don’t you understand?
“…..subsequent to that treaty we went to war with muslims, the Barbary Coast War, something about piracy & slavery, a mere trifle, a minor detail to be sure to one such as yourself.”
-No, it’s not a minor trifle, since I used the treaty in the context of showing the intent of our Founding Fathers in relation to their understanding separation of church and state. So let me get this straight…..since we subsequently went to war with the Barbary Pirates, it means the Founding Fathers decided they were wrong after all, and decided to become a “Christian Nation” after all?
“….you do this for laughs, right?”
-No, I’m not even smiling:(
David W Walters, you started out bad, you’re getting worse. “How far to sacred ground”, oh say 501 feet, a stupid question deserves at least a silly answer. Far enough not to be deliberately offensive, which it is intended to be. Or are you claiming they have a right,unmitigated, to build where they want?
“freedom of religion”, but there is always some impairment of that freedom. I mention the numerous places of practice, first, I also point out building permits, I now add Landmark commissions, even ones packed by Bloombergs people, I throw in zoning boards, health requirements and codes, and yes, public hearings on projects. That is just for a building and any religion faces those restrictions and any one can be a roadblock. Sorry, no right, no infringement.
Freedom of religion you say, a muslim student will not be denied his prayers during school hours in NY, there is even a muslim school in the NYC system. Where is the equivalent for Christians or Jews?
Your last para is weak, the treaty calls on “laws, religion, and tranquility”, obviously muslims mocked and ignored all three. But more importantly a particular treaty with a set of barbarians is not a statement of constitutional policy. The question of religious involvement was left largely to the states. If I may offer one example; the State of Massachusetts had an official religion, Congregationalism, financed in part by that government. For the rest, do as I have done & check the various state constitutions. It will do much to dispel your ignorance.
Put briefly, despite negative interference in religion over the years it is still true that you are free to worship as you please, you are just not free to worship where you please.
I have concluded that despite the gaps in your knowledge you take yourself too seriously to be doing this for laughs, too bad,
I’ll be back tomorrow, don’t forget to say your prayers at bedtime.
David W Walters, how could I almost have forgotten? You are so busy going on about how it is not a Christian nation that I omitted a fairly important point, namely what has that got to do with it? It wasn’t Christianity that was attacked. Is this your weak attempt at a red herring? You mean an agnostic, an atheist, a Jew wouldn’t be offended? These muslims are non-discriminatory murderers after all.
I had to throw it in, I guess you’re just a target rich environment.
johnt,
“……Or are you claiming they have a right,unmitigated, to build where they want?”
-Yes, that’s what the 1st Amendment to the U.S. Constitution calls for. If the mosque is opposed for religious reasons, that runs counter to our Constitution.
“Put briefly, despite negative interference in religion over the years it is still true that you are free to worship as you please, you are just not free to worship where you please.”
-I agree that local planning boards have a duty to protect a neighborhood from development that is contrary to zoning ordinances. Is this area zoned to prevent houses of worship? If it is, then by all means it is lawful to stop a building permit. The question becomes, for which reason do we oppose building a mosque. Is it opposed as Delila says, for “…..the PURPOSEFUL symbolism behind the building of this supposed ‘mosque’?” In other words, being a house of worship from a religion not held in high esteem by the majority is no grounds to deny its construction. If however, it is opposed for the seemingly lawful reason you now propose, on zoning grounds, that would be lawful.
I won’t address this new issue of Muslim schools in the NYC public school system. I live in North Carolin, so it is beyond my knowledge. But in addressing your issue of;
“……more importantly a particular treaty with a set of barbarians is not a statement of constitutional policy.”
-Is true, but my point was NOT to show a binding constitutionality of this particular treaty. No, I was merely showing the intent of our Founding Fathers to create a neutral secular republic where ALL religions are given equal weight, as opposed to the faulty notion of their establishment of a “Christian Nation”.
“……if I may offer one example; the State of Massachusetts had an official religion, Congregationalism financed in part by that government.”
Uh, sorry. Massachusetts stopped funding the Congregational Church in 1833, I believe.
Article XVIII.
Section 1. “No law shall be passed prohibiting the free exercise of religion.” -Massachusetts Constitution
“I’ll be back tomorrow, don’t forget to say your prayers at bedtime.”
-As you’re probably aware, I am an atheist. Let me say this though. I would never attempt to place a believer’s faith in doubt. My own mom is 80 years old. I still take her to church on occasion just to bolster her own faith, since that is so very important to her. But as an atheist, i am an avid student of the bible. But I pray to no god myself.
johnt,
-I must have got to ya…..sorry you can’t argue without being overcome with anger. Anger is a hallmark of irrationality. All that I could ascertain from your post is you might be a NYC resident and you are livid about this guy who wants to build a mosque at that particular location. Again, how far away does he need to go? I asked this once, and you made some kind of a joke about me asking that question in all earnestness.
If you are a NYC resident, then tell me why this tract of land chosen for The Cordoba House isn’t suitable? My point being, from a purely legal standpoint, that mosque has as much right as any other house of worship.
“As to your snide comment on Shrines, try putting a mosque on the USS Arizona or on the field at Gettysburg. Struggle, you will get the point. The 9/11 site is similar”
-Is it? I would think that at both places, The U.S.S. Arizona Memorial and the Gettysburg National Historic Park has zoning issues that would preclude ANY type of house of worship. I’d ask previously about zoning issues related to The Cordoba House’s location; specifically if there were any other houses of worship in that same zoned area. Your reply was an oblique answer about “….good enough grounds for the Mayors handpicked Landmark Comm. to kill the deal.” -So why hasn’t the “deal” been killed?
“…..Yes, there was a law….” -Key word here john is WAS. My point exactly. That they do not now have an official religion is due to the U.S. Constitution.
“So, how many Christians died on 9/11?”
-I have no idea. How many atheist, or Jews, or even Muslims died on 9/11? It doesn’t matter to the discussion about building The Cordoba House. 9/11 was an act carried out by some terrorists who were in fact Muslims.
JESUS KILLED MOHAMMED -This was an epithet painted in arabic on a Bradely fighting vehicle at an outpost in Iraq.
http://harpers.org/archive/2009/05/0082488
Is the war in Iraq a “Christian” war against Muslims? That incident is used by terrorist organizations for recruitment, no doubt. Would I characterize the wars we now wage as “Christianity seeking to destroy Islam? No.
Again, get over your anger and think rationally. Perhaps you could provide me with a rational explanation why The Cordoba House cannot be built.
Larry in the Silicon,
“The supposed moral superiority captures the PC position that Walters well embodies.”
-This is not a “PC” issue…..it’s a constitutional issue, so don’t try to change the subject. And as for morality, if you have a sermon that is applicable, I will give it reasoned thought. And I do not “deride” Judaic-Christian concepts…I don’t want my country to become ANY sort of theocracy, Muslim or otherwise. I will defend a Muslim’s right to worship just the same as I would for a Buddhist or a Baptist. But I will not submit to any “moral code” that is solely based on a Torah, Bible, or Koran. However, I’ve often found it odd that Acts Ch.2 vs.42-47 describes what can only be called a “Socialist Commune”, don’t you think?
This description of the first Christian Church is reiterated in Acts Ch.4 vs.32-35.
32And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.
33And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.
34Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,
35And laid them down at the apostles’ feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.-Acts 4:32-35 (King James Version)
David W Walters, good morning & glad to see you survived the night. Now to business.
I will totally discount your 1st para as it is completely beside my points on places of worship and the rights thereof. Apart from which there are ample places in the Manhattan area, including a couple within short walking distance of the proposed location. This is a deliberate insult & from a man who excuses Osama Bin Laden, “we caused him” comment, good enough grounds for the Mayors handpicked Landmark Comm. to kill the deal. Again, not that that bothers you. Still, must I say this to the point of tears? There is no restriction on islamic worship in NYC. As to your snide comment on Shrines, try putting a mosque on the USS Arizona or on the field at Gettysburg. Struggle, you will get the point. The 9/11 site is similar.
The 1797 Treaty. First let me say that you picked a bad example, the U S signs a treaty of peace and comity & and a few short years later they’re forced to go to war with these barbarians? In the context of this entire 9/11-Mosque issue, you mean you could not have done better? On the other hand and with some religions I guess nothing changes.
On Massachusetts Congregationalism, & cessation of funding. Do you deign to condescend to me? “Uh Sorry”? No, I’am uh sorry Wally baby, I already knew what you wasted your time posting, we were talking about 1797 and that era, remember?
“no law shall be passed” etc. Wally, you are not so dumb as to suspect that that provision contradicts other law the Bay State. I’ll do you one better; it was two Methodists who wrote to Jefferson, fearful of religious discrimination in Mass., Jefferson wrote back and used the Wall of Separation phrase for the first time, seeking to show his support for them. Yes, there
was a law & yes there are contradictions in human conduct.
In any case, and it had no effect on you, I did point out that whatever the status of Christianity was or is, that it is irrelevant to the War against murderous islam and 9/11. So, how many Christians died on 9/11?
Get the point? Please, don’t try and be dense, let it come naturally.
And yes Wally, everyone in the Greater NY area knows you’re an atheist. and that you love Mom & she loves you.
Thanks for reminding us again of your domestic bliss and use your influence with the islamists to move their plans a couple of more blocks uptown, that’s not asking to much, even from a guy who defends OBL.
You are getting boring, you can’t follow argumentation and are much to full of yourself, and for wondrous little reason. You appear to give short shrift to Christianity, hence on bumbles on the issue, and show a greater tolerance for a religion that has waged war almost non stop for 1500 years, at time killing for the pure joy of killing. Spare me the excuses & dodges. This to me is perverse, in a word, it’s liberalism.
Do you send flowers to Janet Napolitano? Mash cards to Obama?
It was great, but goodbye
You’re implying that Islam is only a religion, which it isn’t. It is an ideology that uses religion to mask its true identity. no other religion want to put their rules (sharia) in place OVER the US Constitution. No other religion commands that death for those who apostate (leave) them. No other religion has women subservant to men, death to homosexuals, trying to put their ideology over the whole world and those that do not conform shall be subjuect to slavery or death.
Oh, stop quoting the Constitution to us for crying out loud. We know what it says and we know what it means. Try instead to learn the difference between “can” and “should.”
Ironically, NY will become the safest place for infidels to live.
This is just the latest example of the two Americans we have: There are Americans who love this nation and our traditions, values, culture and our exceptionalism; then there are the other nominally-called Americans who hate America and everything about her. We will never have a united republic again with the two Americans.
One of these Americans must leave or perish.
I’m cheering the guy on. Go for it. Offend every voter in the country except the handful of lefties still besotted with you.
Leave no voter without a score to settle with you on election day.
Muslim? you betcha! Thanks Hussien for making it a little more apparent.
What despicable filth this creature is.
I haven’t been angry at the Enemy of the United States sitting in the Oval Office until now. I have detested his policies and politics but never angry. Now, I’m beyond furious not that it matters being just a voter. However, I’m going to go get several more voters like myself and have a small revolution. Should I ever have the opportunity to cheer the loping off of his head in the Rose Garden, I’ll enjoy my French moment.
A Victory Mosque at Ground Zero, led by an imam currently working feverishly to conceal his radical connections.
This should do it for you, America.
Barack Hussein Obama is either the dumbest man on the planet or is actively engaged in subverting the country.
I am a man of compromise and peace, therefore I suggest, against your AUT/AUT, that he is the dumbest subversive.
Let’s be inclusive and not-judgmental.
One of the difficulties in a democracy is that when you make a rule to protect yourself, the rule also ends up protecting others..even those you may dislike.
For example freedom of speech allows you to speak your mind. But it also allows people you don’t agree with to have a voice too.
In most undemocratic countries like north Korean, Burma and China they have solved this problem by allowing freedom of speech but limiting it to those they agree with.
In America we have a rule that says if an area is zoned for mosques, churches and temples any religion should have the right to build there if they can meet all the legal and financial requirements.
Many Americans blame the religion of Islam for 9/11. They want to make a new rule that says only certain religions they approve of can build near 9/11. The danger is that this is the same justification the North Koreans use to suppress free speech they do not like.
Once you accept their logic it’s easy to buy some rather odd notions like….
1. No Muslim mosque should be allowed to be built without approval of of local residents.
2. Out of respect, Families who practice Islam should not be allowed to buy a house within a certain distance from a relative of a victim of 9/11
3. All the 9/11 terrorists were Muslims. Therefore all Muslims are terrorists and are not protected by our laws.
A pork worshiping “religion” is in the works and will be built near every mosque in America with the smell of rendered pork fat wafting from said building.
I mean, if we want to take it all the wayyyyyyy.
Many Americans blame the religion of Islam for 9/11. They want to make a new rule that says only certain religions they approve of can build near 9/11.
Not even close.
Manhattan is already carpeted with mosques, official and unofficial.
Most Muslims live quite a distance from the commercial/financial center that is lower Manhattan. Many live in Brooklyn.
Look at this soaring, proposed 13-story structure in the architectural drawings.
If you don’t say Victory Mosque (sacrilege, abomination) after that, you need to do some serious thinking.
I don’t know where you live, but 13 stories ain’t exactly “soaring” in lower Manhattan, buddy.
Would that things were so pure. The fact is that the government restricts all kinds of things without regard for citizen freedoms. Try taking several wives. Try remodeling a house deemed “historic” in your town. In California there is a coastal commission that will interfere with almost anything – try building steps down to the beach if you are fortunate enough to own such property. How about those who own land and find it all of a sudden declared non-buildable “open space” by the zoning board. We shut down perfectly good small businesses and take their land so the “re-development commission” can sell it cheaply to Wal Mart.
Let’s face it – standing on basic principles is not a long suit for government and especially not for this regime.
Yeah, but have they banned Christian Churches in downtown Oklahoma City?
Carl, why the continued reference to Christian churches in Oklahoma City? Another strawman argument? McVeigh was NOT a Christian, and anyone who suscribes to ANY race superior ideology isn’t one either. Christianity does not make it a fundamental tenet to KILL anyone who wont become a Christian. . . leave out the Inquisition, because that was the Catholic Church, not necessarily viewed as “The” Christian Church by we who are Protestant, and besides, they have apoligized for their actions and that happened how long ago? Muslims are killing non-Muslims every day.
Hey Rick, how many Muslim armies are currently occupying non-Muslim countries? You really are blinded by your own cultural biases…but that wasn’t my point. A deranged Christian conservative committed a terrorist act, and while I agree he wasn’t a very good example of either, so too are any deranged terrorists probably not very good examples of whatever group they belong to. I know the conservative line is that all Muslims are bloodthirsty, but you know they think the same thing about us over there, right?
The main point is, as conservative, if you are in favor of government banning a mosque on private property out of respect for 9/11, then you are not sticking to your principles of limited government interference in matters of private property, and you are being inconsistent by not demanding the same respect is shown the OKC Memorial with regard to churches or conservative community orgs.
I don’t think government should do either. I believe in separation of church and state on public property and freedom of religion on provate property, and I am consistent in that.
…10 years exactly from their other celebrated coup in lower Manhattan.
The original proposed opening date for the Cordoba House mosque was September 11, 2011.
How blatant do you need to be in kicking sand in the infidel’s face ?
The infidel, drooling with warm spit about “religious freedom” (like the infidel’s President did yesterday) is so easily mocked, so easily fooled.
The problem with politician’s in general and democrats in particular, is they only use ideals when it suits them. The government giveth and the government taketh away. It’s an ideal, or for the greater good, (when trampling someone’s rights). All selective all the time.
It is idiotic to think this community center will promote healing and cultural understanding. Even if we assume that those that are pursuing this initiative have good intent, they will be be supplanted by those that don’t (have good intent).
Although I believe it shouldn’t matter where they build this ‘mosque’, it actually matters alot, and those that justify this on higher moral or constitutional grounds are deluding themselves. There’s a war out there, much more sinister than the cold war, and trust has to be earned. Sad but true. Holy War was declared along time ago.
When the Danish cartoons came out some Muslims were outraged and made a big stink.
When the Muslim mosque was announced some Americans were outraged and made a big stink.
Interesting that some Americans and some Muslims share so much in common…a sense of outrage and an overly sensitive imagination
While I strongly believe we should allow the mosque to be built from a strictly Constitutional and otherwise legat standpoint, I am equally disturbed at Obama’s logic behind his support.
Espousing private property rights and freedom of religion (both pillars of our society) is one thing. To falsely state that Islam is a religion of peace and to praise their “tolerance” or “equality” is just treating Americans as ignorant boobs. The fact that the Koran devoted over half of it’s tracts to defeating it’s enemies through force is undeniable. Also, their stoning of adulterous women, homosexuals and other people they consider deviant goes against everything our nation stands for rgarding personal freedom.
If anything, Obama should have come out in support of the mosque “legally” but should have asked for a little common-sense consideration and compassion from the planners regarding it’s location. That would have put the onus back on them whereas his actions basically give them the support of the highest office in the land…peons be damned. That would have most likely been acceptable for most Americans who are as concerned with upholding our basic freedoms (1st Amendment and private property rights) as they are with our safety.
A bigger question for me is why do groups like NOW, ACLU and GLAAD refuse to come out and call Islam what it is? I guess that would ally them with the neo-cons, and they’d rather sell their souls to the company store than ever do that.
“Islam is a totalitarian political ideology wrapped around a barbaric 7th-century Arabic culture, masquerading as a religion.”
And it wasn’t that long ago that Catholics burned protestants at the stake and Protestants disembowled Catholics and cut them into 4 pieces.
Bloody Mary or Mary Queen of Scots took delight in sending non Catholics to a firey death…and Henry the VIII made sure anyone who didn’t buy his brand of Christianity wound up with his head separated from his body.
Yeah right. And the Christian god is kind and loving…yeah right
Isaiah 13: 5-11 They come from a far country, from the end of heaven, even the Lord, and the weapons of his wrath to destroy all the land. Howl for the day of YHWH is at hand. It shall come as destruction from the almighty…Behold the day of the Lord comes, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it…And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogance of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible
The Christian God is a God of PEACE!!
Deuteronomy 20:16-17 “However, in the cities of the nations the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy them…as the LORD your God has commanded you.”
1 Samuel 15:18 “Go and completely destroy those wicked people, the Amalekites; make war on them until you have wiped them out.”
(Numbers 31:2). God ordered the Israelites to “take vengeance on the Midianites for the Israelites”
Yes, the God of the Christians just like the God of Islam is a God who loves…..war
Not surprising that Christians and Muslims have been at each others throats for 1500 years. They both spring from the same warlike roots
My prediction:
This is a possible turning point in his relation with the American people as a mass, in this sense–if people at large start being able to predict where the man will take a stand before he ever does, he’s done.
Because the predictive template they will be subconsciously using is “The Political Corrector”, the guy who thinks he’s smarter and better and more enlightened than you, and has the policies to put into place to prove it–if only you will open yourself up to his wisdom.
And Americans, at some instinctive gut level, intensively don’t like that guy.
We are proud that Obama stuck up for Freedom of religion and equal rights of everyone…regardless of religion. That’s what a President is suppose to do.
It would have been easier to take the conservative shortcut and pander to the angry mobs.
When the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor hysterical mobs accused honest hard working Japanese Americans on the west coast of sympathizing with Japan.
So the government with the blessing of the Supreme Court rounded them up and herded them into “camps”
It remains a shameful chapter in our history .
In 1988, Congress passed and President Ronald Reagan signed legislation which apologized for the internment on behalf of the U.S. government.
Obama doens’t want to make that same stupid mistake again. And I applaud him
Can you imagine if someone had suggested an “Artwork depicting Mohammad” museum in the same place as a big “F-U” to the terrorists? Would you Lefties support that as well?
Delia, you know better than that. Lefties only support those types of extreme freedoms when they are against norman American (or Christian) ideals.
In their world:
Abortion=Free speech
Abortion protests =/=Free speech
Black Panther calling to “kill crackers” at polling place=Free speech
Private businesses buing political ad time=/=Free speech
Gun bans=State’s rights
AZ immigration laws=/=State’s rights
Smoking pot on your lunch break= individual rights
Drinking soda or buying a happy meal=/=individual rights
Squatting on another man’s land that is unused=property rights
Pumping water out of your own ground to save your crops=/=property rights
(those last two are maybe just in California, but you get the gist)
The “Leftist” mind truly is stark raving quackers.
Why is it that everytime the right wing wacko claim that the Constitution is sacred and should be followed to the letter…but don’t like something in the constitution, like the 14th amendment or freedom of religion, they want to change it?
They are certainly an ideology of convenience
Yep. Absolutely. Unlike you, we actually have principles.
No, absolutely untrue. Most leftists either 1) damned the Muhammad cartoons or 2) were silent at the self-censorship in the face of the riots (‘protests’) over the cartoons.
All you have is personal attacks and ‘yep’-prefaced false assertions.
Larry, that’s baloney. I oppose xenophobic theocrats no matter what church they go to. I thought the Mohammed cartoon protests were a sad comment on religion as a whole, not just theirs. I think the comments on this blog aren’t much different, they come from they same place (the 12th Century, I think).
“Most Leftists”…whatever Larry. You dodged my question on your principles vis a vis a conservative-Christian-free zone around the Murrah Building, and if government should be telling people or churches what they can do with private property.
Still waiting. I am really curious to understand how your mind works on this, because from my view, the inconsistency is irreconcilable.
Again, Carl, you ignore the truth-McVeigh made no claim to be a Christian. Also, Modern Christianity (as a religion) has never endorsed acts of violence against innocents, whereas Muslims kill women and children every day . . . .also, I imagine the people in Somalia would contend they have been occupied by a muslim army.
Now that makes a lot of sense. “I thought the Mohammed cartoon protests were a sad comment on religion as a whole, not just theirs.”
So when Muslims go all homicidal on everybody’s rear end, that’s a “sad comment on religion as a whole”?
Guess everybody who is religious is responsible for one religion being bat-guano crazy, right?
If they want to chop off people’s heads, in other words, that’s equally the fault of all other religions?
Amazing. You take one lunatic “religion” and decide that “religion as a whole” is the problem.
No muslim armies occupy non-uslim countries? How freaking stupid are you or think we are? Explain Indonesia in 500 words or less? In fact, explain any so-called “uslim country” beyond the borders of Arabia. How did they become that way? Strange how you lefties want to blame the ancestral guilt of conquering the Americas on us but give the Ummah a pass on their little 1400 year trail of tears. You are either a typical brain dead leftie or a dhimmi. G’bye now!
Your arrogance and self-righteousness sounds almost religious. Get over yourself. The sad thing is I pity you.
Are you an Obama ghost writer?
So, Carl says he stands for freedom, but every instance I listed is happening on a daily basis and he has yet to stand up for any of them. He probably also thinks it’s freedom of speech to drive spikes into trees so chainsaws break chains (and endanger lumberjacks).
Yeah, squatting is OK but a farmer can’t pump water out of his own ground to save his crops because the govt says so? Dude, you aren’t for freedom unless it’s your type of freedom. Your hypocrisy is sickening. At least a lot of us recognize people have a right to peacefully (if that means anything to you) protest the things we do that they don’t like.
I know so many liberals that were as infuriated over the DOJ’s refusal to go after the NBP members that were intimidating voters as I was. Those are liberals. You are a progressive, and there is a difference. They stand for principles of individuality and personal rights. You support a permanent ruling class that will benevolently take care of us. Only one of those views fits in with our founding fathers views on freedom. (Hint: They aren’t yours.)
The symbology of this mosque is enormous. If it becomes a reality, our dancing-in-the-streets Muslim brothers will be cheering from the rooftops at their coup, following 10 years exactly from their other celebrated coup in lower Manhattan.
Once Muslims establish a waqf (an inalienable religious endowment in Islamic law, typically denoting a building or plot of land for Muslim religious or charitable purposes) its existence is permanent and immutable, for all time.
Throughout history, Muslims have built mosques as permanent symbols of their victories
0bama is the furthest thing from an American president. When, if at all, has this man done or said anything remotely Pro-American? All the seats in Congress and the Senate does not remove the fact he is still the president, not MY president. My President would not ignore the will of the majority, repeatedly and would NOT insult the memory of the 3,000 murdered on Sept. 11,2001. Until this pile of human excrement is removed from the White House he will continue to destroy and remove all traditions meaningful to this Country and it’s people. His removal is warranted in 2011, lets make it happen.
This is exactly what I expected from this POS president. On the bright side no one has to guess on which side he stands morally.. and it certainly is not with the American people. 9/11 was an act of war in case the dummy can’t figure that out, and the muslims want to keep up the heat. Had this “religion” any redeeming quality it would not have ever considered anything as outrageous as putting their f**king mosque anywhere near Ground Zero.
I will bet this place is never built. But whom in the dept of state has decided to send the bugger on a “good will” mission to the Arab world. Just what America does he represent?
I will NEVER forget that horrific morning. My husband called me in shock and said to turn on the news, so I flipped on CNN (still half awake) and saw the first tower in flames and my husband told me he thought it was on purpose and I kept saying, “No, no…it must have been some horrible accident” because I was in utter disbelief. Then, the second plane hit and I realized it really was an attack and I bawled my guts out.
These people using their so-called ‘religion’ as a WEAPON are our enemies. To even SUGGEST this abomination is pure EVIL.
Let me be clear. . . .the “o” is hell-bent on destroying our country. . . are we going to let him? November is our last chance for change without violence. After that, who knows. . . . bw ready for an EMP event either by Iran, China, N Korea, or Russia. . . .prepare! prepare! prepare! Self sufficiency is something we all need to cultivate. Those in urban areas. . . be ready to get out. . . have a plan, a “bug out” bag, and if possible, some sort of self defense weapon. I am not trying to be paranoid, just aware. If any of you have cop friends, talk to them . . . if they are on the level, they will tell you the same things. . .
The time has come for the American Patriots to stand up and shout…”I want to see TOTUS’s college transcripts, papers he has written, etc.
I am sick of TOTUS and wife being in our WH.
Time the for TRUTH to come out about him and MO.
(he is no leader and she certainly is not the first Lady!)
Remember in November!
As I am quite sure, all of this is going to be swept under the rug. Everyday, all the true Americans must read a List of everything this evil man (sarcasm) has done and never forget
Something is wildly wrong with this whole mess.
Yes. The white house should be reserved for whites.
It will need a good cleaning after “O” leaves
Yes. The white house should be reserved for whites.
Oh a troll from the F*** Tea Party, hmmmm? We’ll have to spray this place down when you leave, so begone slimeball!
…10 years exactly from their other celebrated coup in lower Manhattan.
The original proposed opening date for the Cordoba House mosque was September 11, 2011.
How blatant do you need to be in kicking sand in the infidel’s face ?
The infidel, drooling with warm spit about “religious freedom” (like the infidel’s President did yesterday) is so easily mocked, so easily fooled.
Muslims, Arabs in particular, generally only admire strength. Using the laws of free countries against those countries is a trend all over the world. Thus far, more success has been realized in Great Britain and Canada than in America.
However, after the holier-than-thou yapping of the American President yesterday, America is definitely looking more lucrative for their agenda.
Insha’Allah ! Allah is working hard on their behalf and they’re damn pleased !
Insh’oil.
It’s the money of oil that is working hard for the islamic conquerors.
It has bought the elites, the politicians, the media, the universities.
It will buy more in the future. Possibly our Freedom entirely.
That’s why the subversives don’t want us to drill, don’t want the coal, don’t want the nuclear.
ALL our money must go to their oil masters, so they get the crumbles.
OIL HU AKBAR
A longstanding irony that we-the-oil-users are so actively supporting our own subversion.
Financing terrorism as well as the ability of our foreign enemies to buy people in the United States, buy university chairs of Islamic studies, etc.
While our domestic enemies (new name for the cabal in DC) used the BP fiasco as an excuse to shut down 13% of America’s domestic source.
See what’s our problem ?
Our problem is that we don’t have a leader able to say all this, REALLY LOUD.
A leader willing to explain the details of all this in every city and township, with the courage to face the brutal reaction that would come from Saudi Arabia and company and from their subversive servants.
We are undoubtedly making a revolution thanks to the Net, but we are an army (of information and ideas) without a Washington, without a Jefferson.
We can still win, but a leader would make things easier, faster, safer.
This is so twisted as to be almost funny. Aren’t you guys always making fun of us wanting to get off oil? Making fun of the Carter speech in the sweater when he called energy conservaton and independence from Arab oil “the moral equivalent of war”? Making fun of every attempt to reform our energy policy and finally kick our addiction to fuel that is poisonous and that we must buy from our enemies?
I swear, you people are beyond help.
poisonous? there are negative consequences with all energy technologies. Going Green is a marketing campaign.
The point, Bear, is that if we had, 30 years ago, known how right Carter was about energy policy being the “moral equavalent of war”, and done what we tree-hugging, enviro-whackos suggested and get off the juice as much as possible, oil would be at about $10 bbl today. You know what happened the last time oil was that cheap? Our major enemy, whose major source of revenue was oil, collapsed. That time it was the USSR…yeah I know, I know, Reagan put missiles in Europe blah blah blah, but if oil had been at $70 all these years, the Soviets would still be here.
What did we do? Bought SUVs and funded a whole new major enemy. So, thanks to shortsighted conservative energy policy, we fund both sides of this war we are in.
When you pay taxes, you fund our side. But paying taxes is bad, according to conservatives. When you fill your tank, you fund their side. But electric cars and alternative energy are bad…and big, wasteful vehicles are good!
Whose side are you on?
Carl, AKA, Ricky has just been given a time out.
Thanks for that!
Does this mean, further to “how many muslim armies are occupying non-muslim countries”, he won’t be ‘splaining how so-called muslim countries became muslim? For instance, how Indonesia became 95% muslim? Drat! I was looking forward to that one.
I’d also like to add, “If you can’t keep it intelligent, keep it short!”
To bad our nation didn’t pay heed to Carter’s speech of April 18, 1977.
“…..this is the greatest challenge our country will face during our lifetimes. The energy crisis has not yet overwhelmed us, but it will if we do not act quickly.”
-He was right about that.
“We simply must balance our demand for energy with our rapidly shrinking resources. By acting now, we can control our future instead of letting the future control us.”
-The future is now the past. Reagan’s energy plan? Buy more foreign oil. How has that worked out? Not to dam’d good.
For the past 8 years the American government has trying to help bring freedom and democracy to Muslim Iraq. We’ve trained their army, equipped their police force, rebuilt roads , schools and bridges for them, tried to get their oil flowing and their electric grid up and running.
I agree with Obama. We should pull our troops out of that Muslim nation and let them fend for themselves.
We shouldn’t be helping Muslims…right?
C’mon kiddo, make an effort. You can do it.
We are not discussing about what the muslim do or should do in the muslim countries, we are talking about the muslim conquest of the West, of the 9/11 attack against America, of the fifth column of jihadist living in the West.
If you make a real good effort you can get it.
Read some interesting statistics about the muslim mass-murderers at
http://www.thereligionofpiece.com
And don’t worry, the problem WILL knock at your door, that you like it or not, if you are not one of them you are a bloody infidel and, as soon as they can, they will do to you what you deserve in their enlightened opinion.
I had to see this.
Internationalist subversives supporting islamic supremacists.
Can the commies go lower ? Yes, sure, always.
But this is a new record.
We have to work harder to kick away ALL the commies, all the jihad-supporters, all the subversives of any kind from Congress and from the White House.
Work harder Folks, we can do it, yes we can.
Read more, spread more info, talk with people, post on more web sites.
Commies licking the feet of the prophet of bombs, I had to see this.
Think of BO as the 20th hijacker and everything clicks into place:
Supports Victory Mosque at Ground Zero.
Sends Victory Mosque imam on State Dept. sponsored fund- raising trip to the Middle East.
Makes sure Iran gets the bomb.
Hamstrings missle defense plans and research.
Wrecks the American economy.
BO is not an incompetent; he is an audacious and dangerous man, committed to taking America down.
I deem that focusing on the man is dangerous: it’s not a man, it’s a whole administration, it’s a network that goes from Soros to Saudi Arabia to the commie circles in the universities to the elites’ secret circles that have destroyed Europe.
It’s a project of subversion that we must take seriously and we must fight cunningly.
It’s all quite close to too late. The open collaboration of Obama, Bloomberg, Pelosi, Reid with Islam is like a loud car alarm that won’t quit. The ‘car’ itself, the international elitists who kow-tow to their oil masters, is heavily wired. Try to defuse it, and put yourself in immediate peril. Thankfully, there are some who will.
I am grateful that in the end Obama will hopefully, after disasters he has helped spawn, bring about a more hopeful world, one that will begin the day after Israel finishes dismembering the Iranian threat. The elites will do their best to destroy Israel on that day, but it won’t work. Now I pray that Netanyahu has the courage to remember his heritage, and act to save an ungrateful humanity.
Clarification – he will bring about a more hopeful world inadvertently and against his best efforts.
You make a very good point.
The party of Truman and JFK, the press, academia, Wall Street, the elite of corporate America all worked together to put Obama in the White House–and most of them have stuck with him as he works to destroy America.
I remember the America that won WWII, and ask myself “what happened to our country?”
Yeah, I’m not too sure I agree with you here. The party of Kennedy and Truman had nothing to do with this here. The Dems have become so poisoned in the past 10 years it’s just absurd. Seriously, think about this…..when Gore lost the election to Bush, the hardcore progressive (not the liberal one) went nuts. They set out to destroy the Repblicans because of the perceived injustice that had been thrust upon them. They were willing to sell their political identity for payback. In 2004 when Kerry lost, they again believed the election had been stolen from them, even though it had not been. They also hedged their future by having…….BHO give the keynote speech at their convention. This got his name out there as an alternative to the moderate wing of the party that was dominated by Clintonites. Well, as it became apparent that BHO would become the next nominee, the liberals in the party bought into the populist rhetoric that he was selling…it was still their party after all.
Well, since the “historic” victory in that election, the progressives have managed to not only alienate a vast majority of independants, they have managed to alienate a large chunk of liberals as well. These liberals are the ones who stand for individual rights and free speech. They want a limited government regarding social issues and they want our military scaled back and they see Obama going in the other direction here and it terrifies them. That’s why when you spend some time on liberal (not progressive) sites, most people are praying Hillary runs against Obama rather than joins him. They realize their shot at having control any time in the near future rests solely on the ability of a Democrat to run the executive branch from the center of a center-right country. They realize their hatred of all things Republican clouded their vision and may ultimately cost them decades of political power and it terrifies them.
I support the view that agrees with allowing this thing to go forward, no matter how reprehensible it truly is. It does show our capacity to stick to the Constitution no matter what. The number of other mosques in NYC and this one’s relative distance from those who may flock to it are really irrelevant points.
Let nature take its inevitable course: The mosque will surely be destroyed soon after the ribbon-cutting ceremony. You watch…..
So now the mask has finally been dropped, and we can see with unmistakable clarity that our President, Barack Hussain Obama,—who, now that he has captured the Presidency no longer even bothers to pretend to go to Church, or to celebrate the traditional White House “National Day of Prayer,” and has forbidden religious themes for White House Christmas celebrations–is a Muslim. Now we can clearly see who he stands with, what he really believes in and stands for, and what his first priority is; it is Muslims and Islam, and not Americans and America. And, thus, he has revealed himself–in this realm as in all others–to be the enemy of everything that America traditionally stands for, of us, and of our Freedoms, and of our Republic.
Barack Hussain Obama, the son, and step-son, and grandson of Muslims, educated as a Muslim in his childhood in Indonesia, who sat in the pews of that former Muslim, the Rev. Jeremiah “God Damn America” Wright, and listened to 20 years of Wright spewing hatred of America and whites, and of his support for Muslims and the Palestinians, and who uttered not a word of protest or rebuke, Obama, good friend of “Palestinian” Columbia Professor Edward Said, and of “ex-PLO operative” Rashid Khalidi, a Columbia “professor” too, who is now organizing a new “Freedom Flotilla” to break the Israeli blockade of Gaza, and whose ship will be named–after Rev. Wright’s sermon and Obama’s autobiography–“The Audacity of Hope,” Obama, whose first major broadcast of his presidency was to the Muslim world, who bowed and scraped so profoundly low to the King of Saudi Arabia that he bent in half, who has told Muslims that “they have always been a part of America and have played an important role in her development,” and has told NASA that its first priority must be to make the Muslim world feel good about its past scientific “accomplishments.” Obama our President who has now told a room full of Muslims at a White House dinner celebrating Ramadan (many of them Muslim Brotherhood front men and supporters) and told all of America and the world, too, that he strongly supports the building of this deliberate provocation, Muslim’s triumphal ”Cordoba” Mosque.
A Mosque deliberately named “Cordoba,” of course, to remind us of and to grind our faces in the fact of Muslim’s conquest and 800 year occupation of Spain. A Cordoba Mosque scheduled to be dedicated—to deliberately add additional insult to injury, to rub the barely healed wounds raw again–on the anniversary of 9/11, at a location that marks what Muslim terrorists and many Muslims see as their “victory” at the killing ground two blocks away, where 3,000 Americans were blown up, incinerated, suffocated, crushed, and driven to jump to their deaths by a terror attack by 19 Muslims on 9/11; the greatest enemy attack—with a greater number of dead than Pearl Harbor—that we have ever suffered on U.S. soil.
Whatever plausible sounding sophistries Obama has used to justify his stand, whatever appeals he has made to our Constitution, to our hospitality, to our fairness, to our freedom, and to our religious liberty, his is the utterly false, reasonable sounding, mesmerizing tongue of “Saruman the Wise” or the poisoned logic of Grima “Wormtongue” speaking, seeking to exploit our hospitality, openness and freedom, and counting on our political correctness, on our ignorance of Islam and its bloody history of subversion, conquest, domination and slavery, on our naïveté and gullibility, and, ultimately, on our fear of Muslim violence, to win the day.
But, however much lipstick and cologne is slapped on this “pig,” it is still a huge, stinking, grunting pig.
This triumphal, mocking Mosque—by whatever name—is a gob of spit that its Muslim backers, organizers and supporters, however nicely dressed and turned out they may be, have contemptuously spit in the faces of every American, spit doubly directed at the survivors of those killed and injured on 9/11, spit that they hope we will not dare to, will be too mesmerized, too much in denial, too dumb, too afraid to notice, and that we will believe—for we have been told it is so by Obama—to be perfume; “tolerance” such as this will be the death of us.
The Cordoba Mosque is a deliberate insult and provocation that no President who is a true American and a patriot would ever have even considered having anything to do with, much less justifying or supporting—and strongly so, a Mosque that he would have, instead, opposed with all of his might and the full force of our government.
This is exactly right.
Please, folks, re-read what Seth has written.
THIS IS IMPORTANT !
I thank God for the existance of Pajamas Media, and for the ability to read fabulous posts like this one of yours, Seth. Gives me hope.
The new motto of the Obama administration: “Never let an iftar go to waste…”
GW Bush gave an Iftar at the White House every year. My Heavens!
Concerning building the Mosque at Ground ZERO!
I can’t believe what he (Mr. Obama) just said. It’s OK to build a masque at ground zero, but a Christian church can’t expand their parking lot because it causes dust from the extra traffic it will cause and inconveniences the neighborhood because they don’t like to hear the hymns early on Sunday morning. We can’t have Bible studies in our homes now because of the home association rules too many cars parking in the evening spoil the ambience of the neighborhood. Also we can’t teach our children at home, because the Federal school system want to over see the curriculum we will be using, but it’s OK for Muslims to teach there children what ever they want even if they teach the overthrow of our gov. and that includes La Raza in Ariz. in Tucson. Where are our rights, why isn’t Obama involved in these local matters? The Feds needs to stay out of our business, including where we can breathe, eat, drive and what to drive it with. They have gone too far, we don’t need a Mosque at ground Zero. They already have too many Mosques in New York City. Why are they and so close to ground ZERO and insist on building this monument there? Will will it truly stand for tolerance and freedom of religion or are they telling us we have been conquered by a foreign entity. This place they want to build is the place where a horrendous atrocity occurred on the soil of the United States. Might I remind people that we should never forget and will always remember what occurred on our soil on that clear and day in September. How quickly the people of New York and the the people of our country quickly forgot.
The Feds., the Mayor of New York and specially the State Dept and the current Democratic ruling party and the News Media would want us to forget but, we will never forget what the atrocity that happened on that day!
From Politico (via Drudge):
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0810/41069.html#ixzz0wbuQXHrm
What can we say, Martin; he has a gift.
Let’s give the lefties their due. Indeed, everything Mr. Obama said was essentially true and just as inappropriate and injurious as turning up at your weird uncle’s funeral and insisting of being truthful about him.
At the very least, it shows that the POTUS, like his wife Marie and the nobles surrounding him, have no consideration for the feelings of the peasants and are totally tone deaf to what’s going on outside of their of Versailles. So either they intend this to be a one term kamikaze presidency or they have something else up their sleeves. I can hardly wait.
The attacks of 9-11 were absolutely a religious statement, what McVey did was a political statement, two totally different mind sets. McVey didn’t invoke his God, the Islamic terrorists proudly did. Big difference !
I find it very ironic that the practitioners of Islam, a “religion” that gives not an inch, practitioners of a “religion” that, in obedience to Mohammad’s command, refuses to allow even one Church or Synagogue or any other “unbeliever” house of worship to exist or to be built anywhere on the “Holy” Arabian Peninsula, and resents and bitterly objects to even one unbeliever setting foot on the Holy Arabian Peninsula, a religion whose practitioners use our soldier’s presence on the Peninsula as a justification for their terrorist attacks, a “religion” that bans and harshly punishes any type of proselytizing by unbelievers there, and tries to keep each and every Bible out of the Peninsula, too, a “religion” that forbids each and every unbeliever from even entering Mecca(do Americans even realize this fact?, see http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/2007/05/a-christian-caught-in-mecca-what-fate-awaits), and yet practitioners of this religion want of us, demand of us–the objects of their studied resentment (see http://www.freedomhouse.org/uploads/special_report/45.pdf ) and hatred, and and the victims of their terror–to permit them to build what might more truthfully be called the “Triumphal Mosque of the Nineteen Martyrs” on our own “Holy” 9/11 ground.
As someone suggested recently, this is the exact equivalent of us, after WWII, permitting the Japanese to build a Shinto victory shrine over the USS Arizona and our other sunken ships at Pearl Harbor. Just to state the issue shows its insanity, its violation of the memory of our dead and of common sense, and–to use an old phrase long out of use, its violation of “our national honor,” yet here we are being asked to do the very same thing in the name of “tolerance” and “religious freedom” by the shadowy practitioners of a religion that practices neither one of these virtues.
Might I suggest there are still many liberal’s in office in the Blue States who are over due for a dumping. May I suggest my own senator Barbara Mikulski from the great state of Maryland. She and others like her should go along with this sad excuse of a President. We have to act on the ones who are on the ballot this year and get the others as they come up.
May I point out to every conservative in Maryland that Barbara Mikulski has supported every single thing that Barack Obama and Harry Reid has done. She is up this November and it is time for the 74 year old community organizer to retire. NOW.
VOTE OUT ALL INCUMBANTS THIS NOVEMBER while you still have the vote.
It is beginning to be easier to understand how his Harvard educated father, Barack Hussein Obama Sr. died a dejected and legless drunk in the last of many DUI crashes. The apple doesn’t fall far from the tree.
Got my “nickel’s” worth – that was great!
So, McVeigh, as he fired the detonator, said “I bomb this building in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost and Ronald Reagan?” Christ, you really are a dolt. (BTW, little Timmy made crystal clear what motived him; read up on it some time, why dontcha.)
This was meant for “Carl” above. Sorry I got out of sync here.
I have, and if you have, you know that he did it out of retaliation for Waco and a general hatred of the US government. Yeah, he was an extremist Christian conservative..and thanks for pointing out that his reasons were pretty much identical to the 9/11 terrorists reasons. Replace “Waco” with “Palestine” and the “Government” with “The Great Satan” and it’s pretty much word for word. Whackos always think they have good reasons. So, we gonna ban churches and conservative orgs in OKC or what?
Come on, Carl. You aren’t dealing (solely) with children here. McVeigh had zero (repeat: ZERO) religiousness in his reasoning for his terrorist attack on the OKC Federal building and everyone knows it. Your strawman argument may suck a few people in, but only long enough to refute your nonsense. Everyone from all ends of the political spectrum know he did it because of Waco, Ruby Ridge and the other examples he perceived as government abuse of power and inherent evil. While I agree in the overstepping of government authority in those cases, I never resorted to his despicable actions and will condemn him every time the subject comes up.
Look, you think you’re high and mighty, but you are just another Obama sycophant that is willing to sell his country down the drain just so you can say your team won. Well, congrats big boy. You won and we’re heading down the toilet.
As a disclaimer: I believe these people should have the right to build their mosque because the have the right under the 1st Amendment and through private property rights. These are cornerstones of our society and we shouldn’t sacrifice them now or ever. Morons like Carl want to restrict freedom as he stated in an earlier comment or two on this thread and I can’t abide by that. When we sacrifice the foundations of our society then we are doomed to failure. Stopping this mosque would be the beginning of the end of 1st Amendment rights and it would also be a further erosion of personal property rights that are hanging on by a thread as it is. We can only win if we continue to be better than those who would oppress us.
He WAS RESPONDING TO THE ATTACKS ON RUBY RIDGE AND WACO. There was NOTHING RELIGIOUS ABOUT IT. SO STOP THE LYING. IN HIS OWN WORDS HE HAD RETALIATED AGAINST THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT BECAUSE OF THE FEDERAL SLAUGHTER OF AMERICAN CITIZENS.
Carl, AKA, Ricky has just been given a time out
Aw, gee, and here I was hoping he could point me to any evidence that Christianity inspired McVeigh to become a terrorist or that McVeigh practiced or believed in Christianity the way the 9/11 scumbags were inspired by and believed in Islam. It is obvious to all but mentally defective leftist trolls that simply having been raised in a particular faith doesn’t mean much if the person doesn’t practice it or base his actions on it. By Carl/Ricky/Dumbo’s non-existent logic, Richard Dawkins is a Christian because he was baptized in an Anglican church.
I was learning these ‘truths’ all over again:
1) all people are exactly the same;
2) there is absolutely no truth but what we perceive;
3) people with power are just bad and people without it good, even if all people are equally good and bad;
4) the Jews invented monotheism and the Ten Commandments, even way more, that’s why we hate the Jews and the Christians. But we don’t think they’re any worse than good people, like us.
I’ll miss Ricky and his insightful sexual psychology.
Actually, I think the earliest record of monotheism was in Egypt when Akhenaten replaced the traditional gods with Ra. But whatever. I read this whole ridiculous thread and that guy schooled all of you, which is why Ed banned him. I guess if you can’t hang with reasoned debate that’s what you gotta do.
Glad to see you, Drakula! Since you think Carl/Ricky/Whatever was such a shining beacon of reason on this thread, perhaps you can answer the question I put to him. Please provide evidence that McVeigh was a practicing Christian who was inspired by his religion to bomb the fed building. I’m sure a bright little boy like you will have no problems providing us with proof. Do give us an example of “reasoned debate,” oh fanged one.
Let me introduce you to a wonderful thing called the Google. What I’ve read about McVeigh is that he was steeped in a perverted form of Christianity called the Christian Identity movementnt that was racist in nature, as well as the so called “Patriot” militia culture, elements of which are definitely present in the Tea Party. So, if we are making all Muslims guilty by association for the acts of the 911 terrorists…I’m not buying it.
Reasoned debate, as in the teabagging nonsense, followed by the ‘we would stand up for Muhammad Cartoon Day’ comment? Right. The left runs for the hills when things like cartoon day occur, while they smile with satisfaction when cartoonists defame Jews or Christians.
As for Mr. Driscoll’s decision to ban him, that’s his decision. Maybe it was prompted by Ricky/Carl’s personal attacks. I don’t know. Interesting that you accept that Ricky and Carl are the same person.
And what does it matter when the first instance of monotheism occurred? The basic point is that the same folks, like you, who denounce Judaism and Christianity, leap to the defense of Islam. Objectively, and this is an academic aside, it’s not clear at all that either Christianity or Islam are purely monotheistic. But that’s not the main point to make with you.
Schooled much?
I don’t see how any of that addresses anything Carl or Walters said. It seems like of all the posters the only people who don’t come off as sort of unhinged and let’s face it, stupid, are the liberals. Nobody has addressed the observations about the 30 years of wasted time on energy policy that has led to us funding our enemies, which is clearly a huge conservative blunder with vast geopolitical implications, or the completely fair observations that nobody called for banning Christian or conservative organizations from the neighborhood around the Murrah building. That right there contradicts what you are saying about Christians being under greater attack than Muslims in this country. That’s just silly. I dont remember any liberals seeking to ban anything in that neighborhood.
The First Amendment, or Constitutional Questions, or even domestic political questions are irrelevant.
This Mosque at Ground Zero GUARANTEES another mass casualty terrorist attack. Period.
Machiavelli was right, in relations between dangerous countries and groups (this does not apply to Switzerland or Belgium), fear and respect are vital. Love and affection irrelevant, in fact a mark of weakness. America MUST HAVE FEAR AND RESPECT from Muslims around the world who take part in Jihadist groups and formulate attack plans. WEAKNESS GUARANTEES ATTACK.
The attacks will be two-part. First, American Muslims like Faisal Shahzad, or Major Hassan, will try to make as many mass-casualty attacks as possible sensing weakness and the ability to move cultural and social surrender along as fast as possible. For example, making Islam a religion that is a crime to insult, prison time for the South Park guys, legalized Polygamy, with welfare payments for each wife, separate Sharia for Muslims (not the US legal system), and so on. By accounts here in PJM, goals such as this were Hassan’s reasons for his murdering 13 at Fort Hood.
Second, Muslim jihad groups AND GOVERNMENTS will see abject weakness and feel there is no comeback for Jihad. If America had been more unlucky on 9/11, Zacarias Moussiaoie (sp?) the “20th Hijacker” would have been on board Flight 93 and would have helped collect cell phones, preventing the passengers from fighting back and allowing the hijackers to hit the White House or Congress, decapitating at the Staff Level the US Government. With less individual evacuations, we could have lost 20,000 easily in the Twin Towers.
This was a result the Taliban was comfortable with, because they did not FEAR THE US. Political Correctness, “tolerance” (another word for decadence) only invites ATTACK.
It is a globalized world. That means the politics and polygamy and violence of Waziristan can visit your NYC office like Mohammed Atta, comin at ya!
Obama just signaled to every would-be jihadi in America that there is a green light to attack, because he is weak. He signaled to Iran, and to the ISI in Pakistan, that he would do nothing but apologize should NYC or DC be nuked. For making Muslims angry or something.
Decadence (tolerance), or the Free Speech notions of “sticking it to America” with the Ground Zero Mosque are luxuries we cannot afford. Obama just GUARANTEED a mass casualty attack.
Which will make the task of installing FEAR AND RESPECT among Muslims domestically and abroad, far harder. The implications are obvious.
Obama is trying to pull back from giving the green light to the mosque now! But..
“And that includes the right to build a place of worship and a community center on private property in Lower Manhattan, in accordance with local laws and ordinances..” – Obama
Now, tell me Obama HADN’T (?) commented on the Ground Zero mosque?
His response today is the, ‘Mississippi 2 Step’. He’d made his own assertion before reading his teleprompter or being spoon fed what to say.
The silence of Schumer and other NY pols speaks VOLUMES of these gutless t urds.
This, ahem ‘man’, administration and like minded, PC brain-dead pols from both aisles are a d amn travesty and in some instances, enemies of the state with their spineless assertions, silence.
And Bloomberg? His approving of the mosque and recently pointing the finger at ‘a person angry with the health ‘care’ bill’ being a possible suspect in the botched NYC bombing.. Bloomberg is stupid. Scary stupid.
Ozero made his announcement in support of the GZM amidst assorted terror apologists and terrorists. See Breitbart Big Peace writer Frank Gaffney here for a full description of them, scroll down to the guest list: http://bigpeace.com/fgaffney/2010/08/13/obamas-ground-zero-mosque/
David W. 8.08pm 8/13/2010
“I guess we will wait to see if he support optional implementation of Islamic Law certain situations.”
No need to wait – AIG is just one of many taxpayer-owned outfits that have sharia compliant finance (SCF)departments. Check out ‘Financial Jihad’ by Andy McCarthy at NRO here, a must read:
http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/243717/american-taxpayer-financial-jihadist-andrew-c-mccarthy
Dear President Obama,
Go F*** yourself.
You need to add and the horse (or camel) you rode in on!
“Let me be clear” wore out its welcome about 100 speeches ago.
This just shows you that Obamas is nothing more than an arrogant muslim set out to destroy this country from within. Look at the arrogance Obama shows when it comes to showing his past records from school. Obama is so arrogant that he is allowing some good people to be prosecuted over pieces of paper about his past. Just look at Obama`s arrogance against the people of New York and America with his blessing allowing that mosque to be built at ground zero!! When was the last time Obama and family been in a Christian Church for Sunday services? Obama has become the great divider and liar of America. Islam is not just a religion but it all so is a way of governing through sharia law. So where are these people screaming about Christians saying prayers and celebrating Christian Holidays? They are afraid to say anything about the muslims because they will be killed because we are not sensitive to the islam faith!
Obama’s Bin Lyin’ and America’s cryin’
I am not crying I am mad as I can be that so many voted for this mess and so many stayed out of the last couple of elections! May real Americans once again stand up and vote and protest this Obamanation (GOD called it an abomination) but it could have been the literal translation! That is what we have ruining this country right at the moment!
All over the world Muslims have built their mosques at the sites of their victories, and on top of the houses of worship of the “unbelievers” they have conquered, and Muslims view such Mosques–their forward bases for subversion and conquest in the countries they have not yet conquered or dominate–as showing the extent of the territory they have claimed and conquered, and as symbols of their triumph and domination.
Perhaps the most glaring example of this is in what is now Turkey, in the city that used to be called Constantinople when it was the capital city of the Holy Roman or Byzantine Empire, but was renamed Istanbul by its Turkish Muslim conquerors. There, today, sits the Basilica of Hagia Sophia–at the time of its capture by Muslims in 1453 already a thousand years old and the largest church in Christendom—which was deliberately defiled and had its priests and worshipers killed, was turned into a mosque, and sits now, defaced, turned into a Muslim museum for tourists.
Muslim’s proposed “Cordoba Mosque,” or more truthfully, their “Triumphal Mosque of the Nineteen Martyrs,” is Muslim’s challenging, mocking, brazen attempt to build an “in your face” monument to their “victory” on the nearby 9/11 killing ground, symbolizing exactly the same conquest and domination that was at work at the Hagia Sophia.(I might note, in passing, that St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox church. crushed by the falling South Tower on 9/11, has so far been unable to get the necessary city permission/permits to rebuild, and Mayor Bloomberg, trying to salvage something from his disastrous and forceful endorsement of building this Mosque, has now suggested that in return for granting St. Nicholas permission to rebuild, we ought to accept the building of this Mosque–nice try).
This Mosque is Muslim’s attempt to place a new boundary monument marking a major Muslim “victory” (and only a temporary boundary stone, for Muslims plan to push the boundaries of their domination and eventual, hoped for conquest of America ever outward)–just as they did in the ancient Christian Middle East and North Africa starting in 632 A.D., just as they did in Spain—with much more to come. The Muslim push for this Mosque is a perfect example of Muslim’s implementing the plans of the Muslim Brotherhood (the Ikhwan) for the subversion and conquest of the United States, as revealed by a captured Ikhwan strategy document, introduced without objection at the recent Holy Land terrorism funding trial, which stated:
“The Ikhwan must understand that all their work in America is a kind of grand Jihad in eliminating and destroying the Western civilization from within and “sabotaging” their miserable house by their hands and the hands of the believers so that it is eliminated and God’s religion is made victorious over all religions.”
Thinking this through, if this Mosque is built, no doubt all of the visitors to the site of 9/11 and all of the nearby neighbors, too, will be assaulted by the Muslim’s triumphant “Call to Prayer” five times a day.
A Muslim “Call to Prayer,” you might remember, that Obama—who we were told during the campaign had nothing to do with, nor was educated as a Muslim, nor knew anything, really, about Islam–chanted the opening lines of in a perfect Arabic accent for New York Times reporter Nicholas D. Kristof in a too candid 2007 interview (http://select.nytimes.com/2007/03/06/opinion/06kristof.html?_r=1 ) an interview during which Obama told Kristof that this “Call” was “One of the Prettiest Sounds On Earth At Sunset.” Here is what the opening lines of this “Call to Prayer” Say:
“Allah is Supreme! Allah is Supreme!
Allah is Supreme! Allah is Supreme!
I witness that there is no god but Allah
I witness that there is no god but Allah
I witness that Muhammad is his prophet… ”
If this “Triumphal Mosque of the Nineteen Martyrs” in built, this triumphant Call, reminding all Americans of this Muslim “victory,” and of their ongoing attempts to dominate and conquer us, is what will bombard Americans who visit the 9/11 site and who live in the area, five times a day.
The Muslims advocating the construction of the “Cordoba” Mosque and their supporters like to talk about how good in was for all back then in Spain—for Muslims, for Christians and for Jews—a golden time of tolerance, what one Wall Street editorialist gushed was the “pan-confessional humanism” that prevailed there, all one big, happy, peaceful family, during the 800 years span in “al Andalus,” i.e. Muslim Spain, and “Cordoba” was the epitome of that harmony. The Muslims and Islamophiles who write and speak about Islam like to dwell on the beautiful architecture of the Alhambra and its gardens, on beautiful Muslim calligraphy, on the gorgeous tile work in Mosques, and on the glittering porcelains and metalwork–the artifacts of Muslim rule (but not on the Christian and Jewish slaves and dhimmis who created and maintained them), but what was really going on in Spain under Muslim rule, and in Cordoba (see, for example, an overview at http://www.jihadwatch.org/2004/04/andalusian-myth-eurabian-reality.html)?
Well, first and foremost, during these 800 years Spain was a conquered Christian nation under Muslim rule, and Jews and Christians—“the people of the Book” were second class citizens, called “dhimmis” because of the “dhimma,” the temporary promise their Muslim conquerors gave them that they would not be subject to Jihad–that they would not be despoiled, their women would not be raped, and that they would not be killed by their conquerors if they “cooperated” and obeyed the rules laid down by Muslims; and what where those rules?
All dhimmis were subject to a systematic, comprehensive Muslim regime of humiliation and oppression—to begin with, each man, woman and child, and even those who died during the previous year, incurred and had to pay a ruinous annual poll tax, the “Jizya,” on their net worth, and the living were responsible for the debts of their dead relatives, and missed payments were cumulative. The Jizya was “protection money” to pay for Muslim forbearance from waging Jihad against them and robbing, raping or killing the dhimmis, a transaction that any organized crime family member will instantly recognize, and was one of the three major sources of revenue for their Muslim conquerors—their other two being stolen physical “booty” like gold and other precious and valuable objects, and the revenue brought in from the sale of slaves, for theirs were extractive regimes. Moreover, since such dhimmis had to acknowledge that they were “subdued,” and were willingly submitting themselves to Muslims, they often had to pay this Jizya on their knees and had to endure the slaps and punches of the Muslim tax collectors (backed up by Muslim soldiers) to demonstrate just how “subdued” they were; a practice recorded as still taking place in some of the lands ruled by the fading Ottoman Empire as recently as the early 1900’s.
The testimony of a “dhimmi” was not accepted in Muslim courts and, thus, dhimmis were at the absolute mercy of any Muslim who accused them, and, if accused, the dhimmi’s “contract of protection” was canceled, and he and his family were now the targets of Jihad, and could be robbed, or raped, or killed by any Muslim.
Dhimmis had to ride on the side of the road and get out of the way when a Muslim passed, had to provide food and shelter for any Muslim who demanded it, or carry whatever a Muslim bought at the store back to the Muslim’s house if a Muslim demanded he do so, dhimmis could not posses or bear arms, could not ride a horse or have a fancy saddle, could not build a house as high as any Muslim, could not build or repair any church, ring a church bell, or cause any unbeliever religious item to be seen, dhimmi’s doorways had to be built low so that they had to bend down to enter or leave, and their dorways could not be lighted, and dhimmis could not mention Muhammad; a dhimmi who did any of these things, or was merely accused of such conduct by a Muslim, forfeited the protections of the dhimma.
To make themselves instantly identifiable, dhimmis were often forced by their Muslim conquerors to wear special, prescribed, distinctive hats, belts, coats or shoes and special identifying colors—this requirement is often said to be the source for the Nazi’s policy of making Jews wear an identifying “star of David” patch on their clothes.
See, for instance, this prescription on Jihad and treatment of dhimmis by the famous Muslim jurist and “peaceful,” “spiritual” Sufi–no less, Al-Ghizali, who many scholars have considered to be second only to Muhammad:
“[O]ne must go on jihad (i.e., warlike razzias or raids) at least once a year…one may use a catapult against them [non-Muslims] when they are in a fortress, even if among them are women and children. One may set fire to them and/or drown them…If a person of the Ahl al-Kitab [People of The Book – primarily Jews and Christians] is enslaved, his marriage is [automatically] revoked…One may cut down their trees [in lands where trees are a major source of food and nutrition]…One must destroy their useless books. Jihadists may take as booty whatever they decide…they may steal as much food as they need…
[T]he dhimmi is obliged not to mention Allah or His Apostle…Jews, Christians, and Majians must pay the jizya [poll tax on non-Muslims]…on offering up the jizya, the dhimmi must hang his head while the official takes hold of his beard and hits [the dhimmi] on the protruberant bone beneath his ear [i.e., the mandible]… They are not permitted to ostentatiously display their wine or church bells…their houses may not be higher than the Muslim’s, no matter how low that is. The dhimmi may not ride an elegant horse or mule; he may ride a donkey only if the saddle[-work] is of wood. He may not walk on the good part of the road. They [the dhimmis] have to wear [an identifying] patch [on their clothing], even women, and even in the [public] baths…[dhimmis] must hold their tongue…. [2]
(From the Wagjiz, written in 1101 A.D. Emphasis added.)*
* These excerpts are taken from a much longer and well documented article written by Andrew G. Bostom titled, “Sufism without Camouflage (Beyond Stephen Schwartz),” posted on Jihadwatch.org for February 6, 2005.
Seems the writers of these old books about the glories of “al Andalus,” in love with Muslim “civilization,” forgot to mention the dhimmis at all, or all the Spanish towns destroyed and/or depopulated–Barcelona, Castile, Toledo to name a few–all their inhabitants killed or sold into slavery–and, I guess they just overlooked all those messy crucifixions, mutilations, burnings, and throat cuttings, too. And why just upset their readers by mentioning all the weeping and wailing, when young girls and boys were dragged off to stock all those harems. They even forgot to mention all those raiding parties (razzias) and Muslim armies departing from Spain to pay friendly visits to France, the Rhone Valley, and the Sicilian and Italian coasts, hundreds of years before the First Crusade; I’m sure a lot of happy dhimmis were there, too, to see them off, and to wave their hankies.
Oh, yes, it was a “golden age of tolerance” and “pan confessional humanism.”
For background and confirmation of these facts, also see any of the books of Bat Ye’or such as:
“Islam and Dhimmitude: Where Civilizations Collide,” “The Dhimmi: Jews and Christians Under Islam,” “The Decline of Eastern Christianity Under Islam: From Jihad to Dhimmitude, Seventh through Twentieth Century,” and “Eurabia: The Euro-Arab Axis.”
See also Andrew Bostom’s excellent compilation, drawn from mostly Muslim sources, titled “The Legacy of Jihad.”
I am a Conservative. The Cordoba Mosque is an abomination that must not be built.
However, the majority of Conservatives posting here just don’t seem to understand: unless & until they come to the realization that Islam is NOT a religion, they will continue to lose issues like this. Hoping that arguments based on “insensitivity”, or being “uncaring” or “offensive” will carry the day are ridiculously naive, since legally the First Amendment will trump you every time.
Islam is a totalitarian political ideology wrapped around a barbaric 7th-century Arabic culture, masquerading as a religion. While there may be moderate and therefore apostate Muslims, there can be no moderate Islam. Until this is understood, the First Amendment will continue to undercut any chance at stopping new mosques, sharia, and the Islamic takeover of our society from within.
Would you agree to the resurrection of the Aztec religion, with its removal of hearts from sacrificial victims? Why not, if it’s just another religion? In the same way, the vicious, degenerate practices mandated by Islam ever since its inception have never changed, so why play into the progressives’ semantic games about it being a bona-fide ‘religion’?
It is long past time for real Conservatives to fully understand the basic premises of Conservatism. It is time for real Conservatives to acquire a backbone. Everything about Islam can and should be opposed because Islam is NOT a religion.
Jews did not “invent” monotheism. That ignores the entire philosophical history of South Asia. Nonetheless, I don’t know why monotheism would be considered all that better than poly or pan or panen, etc.
Of the 3 Abrahamic faiths, I don’t know which one is the best or worst. Judaism might be the best of the lot (now) but then it’s the root of the two others so ….. can’t really give that a pass either.
I propose a Mandir on ground zero.
It looks even more likely that the Indonesian translation of ‘Muslim’ is ‘Obama’.
I was wondering if a projector could be set up across the street from that mosque, if built. We could project Mohammed cartoons on their building. I think that’s free speech.
Raj, what you say is true about “being mystical is not the same thing as being tolerant, especially of non-Abrahamic religions” but do you think Christians or Jews are more “tolerant” of non-Abrahamic religions? Didn’t Christian missionaries spiritually colonize at least some segments of Indian society?
Probably Jews may be the most tolerant because they don’t seek to proseltyze like Muslims and Christians do.