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Dr. Helen

Men Thirty to Fifty Less Likely to Want to Marry

May 2nd, 2013 - 6:30 am

I was reading over the Pew Research Center study on marriage this morning and saw this factoid:

Men and women’s attitudes about marrying for the first time are not different among young adults. But among never-married adults ages 30 to 50, men (27%) are more likely than women (8%) to say they do not want to marry.

Twenty-seven percent to 8% is a big gap. It’s no wonder that women in the same age group have a hard time finding men. As men get older, perhaps they get wiser to the hazards of marriage for men, or perhaps those who are in the older age groups had less interest to begin with. However, as the age of marriage increases to nearly thirty for men (census data shows it to be up to 29 as of 2011), perhaps more will join in the unmarried group.

More from Dr. Helen: Is 25 the New 15?

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Top Rated Comments   
Damn, these comments are depressing. I'm married to an old fashioned gal, love my two daughters who are my only real great achievement, never divorced, never want to be divorced, have a wife that makes more and is generous and fair....

...and still I've got so many male friends who have experienced much the same that the men have here, I can't even disagree with their conclusions enough to challenge their assertions.

Two of my divorced friends remarried this year - to Chinese citizens and have zero interest in American women. Not even for sex. LOL And somebody thinks militant feminists aren't much to blame for what ails the American marriage?

Really? I don't know how you could conclude otherwise.
1 year ago
1 year ago Link To Comment
MARRIAGE IS BAD FOR MEN:
- More than 50% marriages end up in divorce.
- Second marriage divorce rates are 60% and third are 73%.
- 70% of divorces are initiated by women.
- A least 42% of women would lie about contraception in order to get pregnant (source).
- Eight out of ten women (83%) admit to telling "big, life-changing lies" (source).
- Men who stay married are typically miserable and afraid of divorce court.
- Married men often hate going to work and hate coming home.
- Stress due to marriage causes men premature health problems.

- It is public knowledge that divorce courts are biased against husbands and fathers.
- In marriage men will often lose almost all their assets and big part of their future earnings.
- Many Lawyers instruct women to press false domestic violence charges.
- Men are often unjustly arrested and taken from their own homes.
- Failure to pay unfair alimony or child support means prison, even if you are disabled.

- Males who cohabit are already practicing marriage.
- In some states cohabitation is considered a Common Law marriage.
- Your common law wife could have you evicted from your own home.
1 year ago
1 year ago Link To Comment
Marriage holds no real benefits for men anymore. Just duties, responsibilities and costs. Which, thanks but no thanks. Have fun, Feministas.
1 year ago
1 year ago Link To Comment
All Comments   (243)
All Comments   (243)
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I am aware of the problems with feminism and the female bias in the family law system. However, I am generally not sympathetic with the so-called "mens' rights" movement nor with "dark enlightenment" in general.

Men have a legitimate complaint about the bias towards women on the part of the family law system and with divorce being a shake-down racket. I believe changes are necessary to provide balance for both men and women in family law. The men's rights movement deserves credit and support in addressing these issues.

However, having said that, I have spent time on the internet browsing through all of the MRA/dark enlightenment blogs and have come to the conclusion that these people have obsessions that go way beyond the legitimate desire to reform the family law system. What comes across very strongly to me from all of these blogs is that these men have an entitlement complex. They believe that they are somehow entitled to "owning" a woman, as though women are not full human beings with independent volition. I am not going to name any of these blogs here. But I will say that many of these bloggers have gone way off the deep end, close to psychopathy, in regards to this issue over the past 6 months to a year.

I have absolutely no sympathy, whatsoever, with this worldview and the people who express it. I think these men are just as bad, and are fully equivalent, to the feminists that they despise. Both groups of people claim irrational entitlements.

Let me say it straight. No one is ever entitled to anything or anyone that they did not create through their own effort, period. It does not get any more simple than that.

I am even less accepting of the so-called "dark-enlightenment". I am a classical liberal in the Lockean sense. I have no regard or sympathy for any worldview that is illiberal in the Lockean sense. I consider such worldviews to be nothing more than barbaric feudalism and have no respect for them. I consider the Lockean concept of liberty and individualism to be a permanent revolution, the only intellectual revolution in human history, and anything worldviews that predate them to be utterly obsolete.

I believe it is demeaning for competent, intelligent people (either men or women) to have any association with such illiberal worldviews. I will not debase myself in such a manner.
1 year ago
1 year ago Link To Comment
I get the picture.

And when "the wife" unexpectedly leaves you, you are going to be left clicking your gun in the locked bathroom. And then something is going to happen, by God.

Sound familiar? I have come across your type all too often. You are a chivalrous dickwad.
1 year ago
1 year ago Link To Comment
Abelard Lindsey,

I watched a golddigger marry my father under the family law rules of my state. He probably already had Alzheimer's, but it was officially diagnosed not long after that.

For all of his birthday celebrations and all the rest in his home, my MOTHER (long-since divorced) was beside him. My mother loved him, and earned her own fuc'ing money.

The hooker got everything. That's OK, but those are the laws.

Can't we wonder about the laws? HOLY FU'K.
1 year ago
1 year ago Link To Comment
Apparently you haven't seen the damage that women can create today, "Abelard Lindsey".

None of that counts, does it. You would have voted to acquit as a Jodia Arias jury member, because "she's a woman".

You have no empathy because you haven't experienced it yourself - either because you are a clueless chivalrous male who hasn't been slammed yet or you are a feminist woman.

A lawmaker in Colorado passed a law making it tougher for men in a divorce, and he was then blindsided by his spouse in a divorce - and he tried to rescind his own bill. Nope.

ABSOLUTE IDIOCY, and chivalry and stupidity.
1 year ago
1 year ago Link To Comment
All three of you,

Please read my post again, more carefully this time. You will note that we are in complete agreement on the issues you bring up.
1 year ago
1 year ago Link To Comment
Well, what are the "irrational entitlements" and where do we find a pattern of these on MRA sites?

There are one-off nuts in every field and on every message board. So where are the "irrational entitlements" on the main MRA boards like AVFM or the like? Where are men into "owning" women?

And frankly, some men really have been treated with gross unfairness. I have no problem letting them vent - apparently you do.
1 year ago
1 year ago Link To Comment
Another irrational obsession that is surprising common throughout the MRA scene is that of pressuring people, in particular women, into having kids when they don't them. This is one of the stupidest things I have encountered. Having kids is 20+ plus year commitment. You want only the people who have given careful thought to it and who are willing to make such a commitment to have kids. These are the people who will make good parents, because they are willing to do it.

Pressuring people who don't want kids into having them is going to make for poor parenting and unhappy kids. Nothing good can come out of this scenario. So, its stupid to pressure people who don't want them into having kids.
1 year ago
1 year ago Link To Comment
One of the irrational entitlements I encounter on these blogs is the notion that people should be required to or pushed into marrying early, meaning before one establishes their education and career. There is also a lot of whining and obsessing over "career" women, even though none of the bloggers themselves are married to any career women. Some of these guys are going so far as to suggest that arranged marriages should be the norm and that women should be denied the right to choose whether to get married or not, or who they can marry. This stuff is clearly way over the top and quite delusional to boot. Some of the more prominent MRA bloggers (I shall not name names - you know who they are) have been wading into these waters over the last few months.

Another common threat is religion. It is one thing to want others to respect your right to believe in religion and religious freedom in general. I respect religious freedom, as do all right thinking people.

However, It is a very different thing to insist that one's particular religion has or should have jurisdiction over all other humans on the planet. This is way over the top and delusional as well.

Lastly, there is this strange obsession that "hedonism" in and of itself is bad, even when it does not inhibit productive accomplishment in any way whatsoever. This is quite irrational as well.
1 year ago
1 year ago Link To Comment
I've never read more pathetic, whiny, comments from men, then I have in this comments section.
1 year ago
1 year ago Link To Comment
Gray man - I think that you are in reality "feminist woman", but I'll answer this nonetheless.

Picture that you are heterosexual and you have a same-sex roommate in college, for instance.

Aside from college, you work full-time. Your roommate - after moving in - has decided that the "work" stuff is not really for him/her, until he/she finds something actualizing. So he/she just kind of sits at home and watches TV and reads books ordered from Amazon.

Your roommie doesn't pay rent, doesn't pay the electricity bill or any other utility; in fact, you are paying for your roommates car and insurance and food and entertainment and vacations and everything else. Anytime you bring it up, your roommate says that he/she dusted and put the dishes in the dishwasher (you did too).

Now how long would that situation last?

So now we add sex to the equation, and men are paying for women like this, but a lot worse. They are also giving her a 50% stake in all of his future earnings and pensions. She can "cash out" whenever she wants. He may still have to pay for her life anyway ("alimony").

"Breadwinning" men first realize this when they get served. But why on God's green earth is there an understanding - in the laws of all 50 states - that stupid, chivalristic men can simply be fully exploited because they were this stupid? Usually there are laws AGAINST fraud, not laws assisting the leeching woman to extract further money from the target.
1 year ago
1 year ago Link To Comment
You forgot that they all probably have small penises and live in their parents' basement, "gray man".

The way I view it, men who DON'T dare to say anything about such major parts of their lives are the ones who are pathetic. But why don't you get more specific about what is bothering you so much?
1 year ago
1 year ago Link To Comment
If you ask a modern American girl what type of man she wants to marry, you'll get they typical list of completely unreasonable expectations: tall, dark, handsome, educated, intelligent, successful, makes a lot of money, etc.

What you won't hear from her is one reason why a man like that would want to have anything to do with her. This is a female problem, unreasonable expectations and impossible demands.

Marriage is not the problem here really. I mean, I don't have a problem with community property, community funds, and sweat equity, because I understand that marriage is primarily a financial agreement. I have a real problem with presumptive paternity, and I refuse to agree to it. I also have a real problem with abortion on demand and no fault divorce.

But if female empowerment is your goal, then by all means find some schmuck to put a ring on your finger. That's what it's all about, isn't it? Marry some chump with money, but when you want to get pregnant, find the hottest stud in town. Yeah, that's the attitude of the modern American girl.

She has broken no law. Once she has that ring on her finger, she can do anything she wants. She can abort her husband's child, run around, spend his money, get knocked up by some boy in a bar, slap her husband with child support, divorce him, take the house, half the money, and have her boyfriend move in so they can raise their love child together, all on her ex-husband's dime. Which is all he'll have left after she's done with him.

Divorce is expensive. It's very expensive. Presumptive paternity is expensive. Paying for another man's child is not my idea of a marriage. Why get married if you're just going to get divorced? Why pay child support for another man's child? It's a loser's option if there ever was one.

This is the law. This is the marriage contract. Until men realize and admit that the marriage contract is exploitative of men and that the courts are discriminatory against men, and start to do something about it, then this exploitation and discrimination will continue. Don't look to women to solve the problem. The law gives them POWER. They're not going to change it.

A legitimate men's rights movement would begin with changing the law. End presumptive paternity, do away with no fault divorce and abortion on demand.

Otherwise, marriage is just another medieval romance. And we all know how those end. They're all adulterous. Think Lancelot and Guinievere.

And you want to waste your hard-earned money on a fiction? Hey, go ahead. It doesn't matter to me if you wind up broke and broken-hearted. It does matter to the child though.

I believe in the sacrament. I believe in the union of a male and a female manifested in the body of a child. But I refuse to agree to the marriage contract. It is a legal contract, and it is fully binding. I do not agree to it.

What is the modern American girl worth to me? Meh, dinner, drinks, a hotel room, a one-night stand.

If a child is the result, I will pay child support, after a paternity test. But I will never agree to a fully binding legal contract that requires me to pay child support for every child she conceives, regardless of who the father is.

It's that simple. I will not pay child support for another man's bastard. The only way for me to ensure that is to NOT GET MARRIED.

The only thing I ever wanted was a wife and children, but I was denied that by modern culture. Every girl I have ever dated or been to bed with ALREADY HAD A BOYFRIEND. What is there to expect me to believe it's going to be any different when she has a husband?

Oh, that's right, once she's married, there's money involved. My money.

The modern American girl can kiss my rich white ass as I walk out the hotel room. What is she to me? Nothing. She's a cheap one-night stand, and she'll never be anything else. This is the logical result of feminism.

I wrote a short play about feminism in the 70s. It goes like this:

Feminism: "I'm smarter than you. I'm better than you. I have a career! You can't tell me what to do."

The Male Response: Yawn. "Buy your own house."

This is what it all comes down to. Women thinking they have all the power, as long as men are willing to give it to them through the marriage contract.

I don't. I refuse to agree to the terms and conditions of this contract. I couldn't care less about how good in bed she is. It doesn't matter to me if she can suck a golf ball through a garden hose.

I will not agree to presumptive paternity, abortion on demand and no fault divorce.

I will not. This is a female problem. Until she starts adressing the problem, then we can start a conversation. Otherwise, marriage is out of the question. It's about money and the law. If she doesn't understand that, then she isn't worth dinner, drinks and a hotel room. When she's ready to talk about changing the law, I'll be ready to listen. Until such time, she can buy her own house.
1 year ago
1 year ago Link To Comment
Dr. Helen's latest posting and the underlying "Zero Hedge" article feed into my earlier comments about marriage and family. Regardless of the existence or non-existence of feminism, the economic situation into the foreseeable future makes marriage and family life less appealing to many men.

Some social conservatives even go so far to think that promulgation of what the Zero Hedge people call the rentier economy, will make everything better for marriage and families. It will not. Rent-seeking is called rent-seeking because it is a form of parasitism. Parasitism does not create wealth. It consumes wealth that is created by others and makes everyone poorer as a result. Nothing good can ever come out of this scenario.

In any case, I expect that biotechnology will eventually solve this problem, behind the political scenes, with the development of effective anti-aging medicine. Once aging and decrepitude go the way of the horse and buggy, much of the impetuous for marriage and having kids will go away as well.
1 year ago
1 year ago Link To Comment
I could understand a marriage among equal partners, but I could never understand the type of marriage where the man is the breadwinner and shielder of real life and protector and provider etc. - and the woman kind of dusts and loads the dishwasher and watches Dr. Phil and Judge Judy and reads her novels and books.

I didn't even get it back in my mid-20s when I had a very strong sex drive. I actually engaged my fiance back then in direct conversation as to how she pictured the marriage (most men are afraid to even do that). After unexpected yelling and tears and counter-accusations (I didn't even know that I had made an accusation), she started slowly letting out that the man was supposed to pay for everything, and she would have a part-time job or not, depending on how she felt.

I didn't even want that back when she was really a hot number and I had my full mid-20s testosterone. I saw how her mother treated her father (who worked his butt off as a psychiatrist in a mental institution), and finally decided not to go through with a marriage.

Since then, I have had women who are not as good looking as her being more bossy and demanding and upfront that I better pay for her.

NO ... THANKS.

And any men who put women on a pedestal get what they deserve. Don't come crying about family court, you are the dick who was proud of being the "breadwinner". Then do it.
1 year ago
1 year ago Link To Comment
Smart man, you.
1 year ago
1 year ago Link To Comment
For my last curtain call on this here topic, a couple ole buddies had a couple of songs I'd like to dedicate to a bunch of you fellers.

'Thank God and Greyhound You're Gone' - Roy Clark

'Blue Side of Lonesome' - Jim Reeves


1 year ago
1 year ago Link To Comment
The reason this noisy discussion is so informative:

None of the dissident females or beta apologists have once confronted or rejected the objective reality that motivated it. The conditions that drive the 27-8 catastrophe are of no interest to them, so they don't bother discussing those conditions.

It's all "you're angry and bitter" or "NAWALT" or women have magic vagina-based personality assessment skills or "how dare you describe a negative social condition driven by women that's all about me!" or "your son must be a really bad person who takes after his dad!"

If you have some aspirin handy, see for yourself. Read the whole thread. Zero logical or evidentiary objection to any of the objective attributes of our current society that are creating a marriage strike.

It would save us all a lot of time if people who want to be pull-string-talking-point robots would just reply to things they cannot discuss logically or with countering evidence. They could say, for example, "SHUT UP" every time someone posited an argument or observation that doesn't conform to the worldview of Jezebel. That would offer more intellectual credibility than:

"Nice try. He learned how to treat women from his dad."
1 year ago
1 year ago Link To Comment
I agree the "Spirit of Jezebel" has seized our culture. Men have become Ahab's, afraid to stand up, not willing to be men, overly concerned with feelings.

I will say what I have often said when my two boys complain about something difficult "So what do your feelings have to do with it? You still have to do it".
1 year ago
1 year ago Link To Comment
Absolutely agree. The women here telling men what they should think is beyond ridiculous.
1 year ago
1 year ago Link To Comment
I guess I disagree, Areo. I'm happy to be corrected, if I advance an argument with bad data or crooked logic.

But women yelling NAWALT or "You men can't evaluate women, so your troubles are of your own doing" is juvenile. Nobody here really cares if NAWALT. They just don't want to be destroyed, nor watch their children be destroyed, by the state on behalf of the women. A men's rights movement did not create this system. Marriage, divorce, child welfare, and criminal law policies have all changed dramatically in the past 40 years. Now marriage as an institution is in crisis, and those policies have created a marriage strike (by only one of the sexes).

The solipsism of these commenters is such that they take a critique of, say, custody practices as a personal insult, and return fire with ad hominems and non sequitors.

1 year ago
1 year ago Link To Comment
I have been married for 35 years. Some of it happily. My concern is for my 26 year old son! He is an alpha male. Women throw themselves at him. Sadly that has taught him to lose respect for them, and his behavior towards women, sometimes is less than decent.

Recognizing that his first marriage will probably fail, I took steps to prepare for that eventuality. I started a corporation, with my son ,that I have control over. Our business is doing well. Should he get married, have a child, and then have the wife make crippling demands on him, I am in the drivers seat. I can lower his salary to poverty levels. She can then settle based on his poverty level earnings.
Then, I will bargain with her. I will say, I want peace and harmony, and access to my grandchild. And I am willing to pay a monthly wage for that
1 year ago
1 year ago Link To Comment
Well, don't get too assured about your protective measures.

I am not a scummy family court lawyer, but I have gone after people in civil court and "pierced the veil", so to speak, on corporations and the like.

If the wife and her attorney are motivated enough, they can really do some damage. And even if you "lower his salary to poverty levels" and they can't pierce the veil, the judge will just impute his "normal" income to him - it's then his choice: Get further and further behind in child support with the prospects of jail, beg daddy to increase his salary, or get a job somewhere else.

Read up on "imputed income". I think you underestimate the ability of family court to reduce him to rubble.
1 year ago
1 year ago Link To Comment
Areo does have a point. A more sensible approach, if you can't talk sense into your son, is to have him freeze his sperm (in case he wants to have kids later) and get a vasectomy. Aero is correct that corporate veils can be pierced and there are lots of greedy attorneys out there.
1 year ago
1 year ago Link To Comment
I think you underestimate me, and my very expensive corporate lawyers. Nobody gets a piece of my company, by seducing my son.my strategy is, to " encourage" her cooperation. My end game is to have access to my grandchildren, in a positive way.
But I can go the other way also. Being able to pay lawyers, and write off their pay as an expense, has it's advantages.
1 year ago
1 year ago Link To Comment
Your statement -- "I started a corporation, with my son ,that I have control over. Our business is doing well." -- makes it sound like your son has a financial interest in the company.

As a side note, you don't come across as the shrewd person you want to portray, you come across as a pretentious blowhard.
1 year ago
1 year ago Link To Comment
Sorry, my first paragraph is basically what Zeke1 said below. I should read what others have to say before I shoot my mouth off.
1 year ago
1 year ago Link To Comment
"I started a corporation, with my son..."

I think you may have confused most with that comment, inferring you AND you son have a vested interest in the 'assets' of the corporation. If on the other hand, your son does have a vested interest in the 'assets' of the corporation -- maybe changing lawyers would be in your best interest.
1 year ago
1 year ago Link To Comment
You do realize the difference between having a vested interest, and having control. I own preferred shares. I am president, until I decide not to be president. I am the decider!
1 year ago
1 year ago Link To Comment
There's a possibility that you may not understand how the law works, Keaton.

Maybe you should consult with your "expensive attorneys" again.
1 year ago
1 year ago Link To Comment
The family court will not let you establish a lower income for your son and thereby dodge the reckoning. It is extremely foolish to presume so. The court will look at his historical earnings and establish that that describes his market value earnings. You can cut his salary from $500K to $50K, and all that you will accomplish is further prejudicing the judge, while your son pays spousal support, child support, and suffers the obliteration of his balance sheet. And if you give your son stock in the company, you will be partners with the ex-wife. If you do not give your son stock, and she divorces him, the court may determine that he has an imputed ownership in the business, and it may still give her some of your property. IOW, if you work with your son and your son gets married, you are going to be partners with his wife.
1 year ago
1 year ago Link To Comment
" He is an alpha male. Women throw themselves at him. Sadly that has taught him to lose respect for them, and his behavior towards women, sometimes is less than decent. "

Nice try. He learned how to treat women from his dad.
1 year ago
1 year ago Link To Comment
Actually, his dad sounds like he is a supplicant to women.

Men have to learn to not take crap from women. At all.
1 year ago
1 year ago Link To Comment
Agreed, but every dad should teach his child to treat people decently.
1 year ago
1 year ago Link To Comment
By the way, my son does not know why i structured the company this way. I want him to approach marriage with full committment. This is just my way of possibly ensuring that i see my grandkids, if he marrys poorly.
1 year ago
1 year ago Link To Comment
Well if he did, then I would just blame my father. See how that works.
1 year ago
1 year ago Link To Comment
Well, Doc Helen, looks like you can reduce all these comments down to just one book. I was a betting on at least two.
1 year ago
1 year ago Link To Comment
Married 20+ years, I thought I picked the right one! Godly woman, friends liked her, women approved of her, from a traditional christian home, blah blah blah.

WHAT A FLUSTER-CUCK! 2 years in and I wanted fake my own death.
5 years in, I didn't care if my death was fake.
20 years in, it's my mission to save single men from my personal hell.

MEN! Picking the the "right" woman is like trying to pick the hand grenade with a faulty timer. It could go off in 20 days or 20 years but you will not be able to keep it from going off.

When it goes off and you lose your job, you're doing time in the pokey for failed child support payments. Good news, sex will finally be regular but your partner will have a beard and a neck tattoo.

MGTOW. Burn it!
1 year ago
1 year ago Link To Comment
Yup - after the sexual attraction wears off - that's how young women snag men - the man realizes that he damn well better carry out her commands, and stay committed, or he's going to be in for real trouble.

I'm telling you: DON'T ... GET ... MARRIED.
1 year ago
1 year ago Link To Comment
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