The Collateral Damage in the War on Men
“Your husband is the only man who has ever helped me carry anything ever in public,” said a middle-aged woman getting off the shuttle bus at the airport in California. I was caught a bit off guard and then realized that my husband, Glenn, had helped her load a large suitcase onto the bus and he was back on getting our bags. Lest you think I am a real loser, I was waiting with our other bags and couldn’t lift the heavy ones because of my ICD which makes it hard. But enough excuses. My point here is to say that it is a sad day when by the time a woman is middle-aged, she has not had any man help her out in public. She seemed sad about it and so did I. The problem is that there are so many women’s groups and a culture that tells women that men are no good that it is now cause for celebration when any man helps a woman or opens the door for her or anything. It’s collateral damage of the war on men and while women like her may not be active combatants, they suffer nonetheless, and in a way the suffering is their fault too. I wonder how often this woman has stood up for a man in the past?
I used to open doors — I am nearly sixty and acquired the habit while a lad. I still do, when it can be done discreetly, but really, why make the effort to be nice if some harridan is going to make an ass of herself as a result? I doubt any man under forty ever learned the practice.
what I see a lot of with this question is that everything is just so fraught. With meaning. With symbolism. Nothing is just an easy thing you do because you like to help people. And it’s not just an easy thing you do to accept their help.
Accepting or declining, offering or suggesting…
Women act like their position in the world hinges on their reaction.
Because accepting help is conflated with needing help.
The only thing is, that this is a toddler’s way of looking at things. “I’cn do it myself!!!”
Teaching anyone to accept help with good grace is a curious thing, which I learned from my grandmother. Part of that teaching is the realization that accepting help creates a bond, giving help creates a bond.
It ends up being a mutual bond that is the bedrock of community.
We can access and pay for so much anonymous help now that these older bonds fall away.
Last time I stopped to help someone change their tire as an individual, I thought she was going to have a heart attack. These days if I stop at all, it’s only to roll down my window and see if they called someone or need me to. Last thing I need is to get arrested or something stupid for trying to help someone.
OTOH? I was recently at an Anime convention with my kids and I was asked out of the blue if I knew where a store was… and so puled out my phone to give them directions so they could pick up a costume piece. I told my daughter that everyone at a convention helps everyone because its ‘the rules’. And we saw it over and over and over.
Is that because a shared hobby interest makes the community tighter?
If that’s the case, what has happened to our overall communities?
Dunno that it’s exclusively ‘war on men’ but maybe you see it right off the bat that way. D’ya even know who your neighbors are, and would you help them if they asked? And would they help you?
“If that’s the case, what has happened to our overall communities?”
In many places, community doesn’t exist – it’s just an illusion that we harbor in our minds, because we don’t have to think about it too much.
“Is that because a shared hobby interest makes the community tighter?
If that’s the case, what has happened to our overall communities?”
I have to give credit to Dr. Reynolds for helping or having the insight to see the woman needed or wanted help. A few decades ago it was accepted in the overall community that a woman in that situation would be helped by a man. But today in the overall community a man can offer to help a woman and there is a good chance he would be berated by said woman for thinking she is some helpless creature and how dare he think she needs a man to help her.
“Is that because a shared hobby interest makes the community tighter?”
Yes. Especially if it’s a rather unusual hobby–especially that one.
It’s easier to break the ice when you have a common interest; and you’re more willing to assume they are friendly than a random stranger. You’re all there to have a good time; and helping others is one way to do so.
Of course, that isn’t to say that a common interest automatically makes everyone a paragon of virtue; just that it nourishes the hope of finding a friend.
Personally, I’m 49 and open doors for just about anyone near me–man, woman, or child. I was taught it was a courtesy and a nice thing to do, and I often get a grateful smile or kind word. Even without that, I’ll keep doing it because I like it, and I prefer a world with people who open doors for others than one where it’s everyone for themselves.
I’ve lived my whole life in the San Francisco Bay Area and am well aware of gender politics and extremists. Still, I don’t think I’ve ever gotten a truly hostile reaction for this small act of kindness; getting no reaction is more the norm. My wife says it’s because my physical appearance (I’m a big guy) makes others unwilling to risk offending me.
Frankly, *people* should help other *people* to the extent they can.
The only group of people I have sworn off helping is “cute young thing”, who knows that I am only helping her because I want to talk to her or go on a date with her or rape her or something. I simply ignore those types of women – and I’ve occasionally gotten some interesting responses (by the way) when I don’t react like a man is “supposed to” around those types. They really do get everything handed to them.
Otherwise, you should do what you can in society.
WTF said:
“Frankly, *people* should help other *people* to the extent they can.
The only group of people I have sworn off helping is “cute young thing”, who knows that I am only helping her because I want to talk to her or go on a date with her or rape her or something. I simply ignore those types of women – and I’ve occasionally gotten some interesting responses (by the way) when I don’t react like a man is “supposed to” around those types. They really do get everything handed to them.
Otherwise, you should do what you can in society.”
When in high school (60s) I worked at an amusement park that obliged me to help “guests” down a steep ladder. In those times, women were generally amenable to this sort of assistance. Both diligent and youthful, I was performing my job with verve only to be taken aback by a strident woman who jerked her arm away and disclaimed loudly, “I’m not pregnant.”
Time has given me the understanding that of course she was not pregnant. She was an asshole. Becoming pregnant could be, for her, only an outcome of nature’s uncritical hormonal drive.
Time has also given me experiences with many, many intelligent, independent, responsible, capable, and talented women whose company I am honored to have shared. Our genders are teammates, not adversaries. We do what we can for everyone.
And devil take the antagonistas.
Dr. Helen,
I have to confess that I find this notion odd that women condemn men who help them, since it has never happened to me before (I’m 39). Maybe it’s because I live in the MidWest, but women and men have always been appreciative when I give them a hand. Anyway, I think it is important that men don’t let a few bad apples – so to speak – stop them from helping women, since it is my impression that they in general appreciate it.
It’s simple.
Women look for help. Whether that’s a cultural construct or a biological fact is not material.
Men might offer help.
If men help, women might get the idea that they can manage most of their lives without governmental intervention.
Rather than allow that to happen, activists have done what they can to stigmatize women permitting men to help them and attack the men who try.
My grandmother taught me seventy years ago to open doors for men and women, that it was both my duty and privilege. Though I get disparaging looks from some women here in Boulder, mostly they are appreciative, gay and straight alike. Gentile manners may be old-fashioned but they require no returned gratitude to be of lasting pleasure to me.
I saw a man open a door for a female person once. We were at a college, of all places. I was behind him as he did so for her. He might as well have said “Here, weakling! You are helpless without me!”. Her response to this kind gesture was To stand firm like a mule and proudly state “my arms aren’t broken!”. So I just stepped past both him and her and said to him “Thanks, buddy…” and gave her a smirk as I walked past. Made a consciouse decision that day to not open a door for any female of any age and have held to it fairly well, although if she were crippled or super-old I’ll make an exception.
Just another anecdote from the trenches. I’m beginning to see young guys helping old guys carry stuff while ignoring the needs of a female struggling right next to him. Men are actively teaching their sons to refrain from protecting women from violence, but to call 911. Dads are showing their daughters how to change their own tires, too. Cat’s out of the bag.
In response to feminism, males have had no choice but to adapt their social role from “Knight in Shining Armor” to “Bros before Hoes”. As the fictional Deanna Troy on Star Trek once said “what we have gained far outweighs what we have lost.”
It is what it is.
That’s the way I am now. I used to go out of my way to help any female because I was taught that it was the proper thing to do. Now because how the world has become I go out of my way to help other guys. I will flat out ignore any female, especially if she is young, if they need help. The way the laws are now it is far to easy to end up in jail just for trying to help. All it takes if for her to say I did something, no evidence needed, my life is ruined. No thank you. I’ll help a guy out no matter. The women can enjoy the equality they asked for. Kills me that you still hear “women, and children first”. My arse. Children first, then everybody else.
Here’s another snare that women lay for their men, is that your relationship with your ex must be adversarial. My wife ended our marriage this year because of a kind gesture I made toward my ex. This is akin to saying you are my property and must behave in the manner i dictate toward certain people and if you don’t then the consequences are this and such. This also means that her love together with yours, rather than a free gift to each other which is meant to guard your relationship against outside threats, has now become her commodity to use against you as a weapon, or on you as puppet strings. Yes, the culture of man hating women has poisoned the covenants of marriage.
Women’s liberation is freedom from the authority of men. Men’s liberation is the freedom from responsibility to women.
Suck it up, butter cup.
I (a mid 50s guy) reflexively open doors for pretty much anyone. Sometimes they say thank you, sometimes they say nothing. Once I held a door for a woman at the bank who not only thanked me but once inside waved me ahead of her in the teller line. But that’s only happened once, ever, in my life. Almost always they don’t say thank you, and just march ahead.
And then there was the time when I held the door and waited a moment for a woman who gave me that cold feminist stare and said “You don’t have to hold the door for me because I’m a woman.”
My reply was “No, ma’am. I have to hold that door for you because I’m a gentleman.”
The look on her face (and on the faces of those who overheard) were priceless.
The look on her face was priceless.
I routinely hold doors open for both women and men. They thank me. Quite often, people (both women and men) hold a door open for me. I thank them. A little courtesy goes a long way.
In my 50′s as well.
Done it all my life:
1) I still open doors or hold doors open for people (male or female)
2) I still pull out the chair for my Girlfriend, just as I did for my Ex-wife.
3) I still open the car door first for my Girlfriend or any female passenger.
4) I still walk on the “Road Side” of the sidewalk when walking with either my girlfriend or daughters.. any woman in fact.
5) I have ALWAYS put the toilet seat down since I was a small child.
6) I have always cooked, cleaned and done general housework as well as other duties. Shared duty not just me doing everything.
7) I was always an active dad, bathed, changed diaper’s etc for my 5 kids, (3 girls,2 boys). Never thought twice about it and always involved in their schooling and activities.
8) I’ve stopped to help people broken down on the highway, whether it was pushing them out of a ditch, or snow bank, to giving them the 2 gallons of Gas I always carry in my trunk. That ended about 6 years ago when a person decided to try and rob me after I changed their flat tire… I was happy that day that my Ex was carrying (Model 1911 45 cal), they did not expect that and we got away safely & without further incident.
In the past 10 years have seen a marked shift in how people react to such acts of civility & good manners. For the most part, people are not used to such things anymore and becoming less and less common. In general people will say thank you or just pass along wit a nod. Although on 3 separate occasions I received a negative response.
One of those occasion’s the young lady I held a door open for just went off and started yelling at me at the entrance of the grocery store and caused quite a scene. She cursed as well as any drunken sailor on a Saturday night on first day of shore leave. Considering she was trying to manage a dual stroller (2 babies) and about a 1/2 dozen full grocery bags, I thought (incorrectly) that she may appreciate someone doing something nice. Interestingly enough, an older “lady” close to my own age had some “stern” words for her and was quite vocal about it too and made sure everyone heard her berate the young woman with the kids. After my shock, subsequent amazement, I really started to reflect on the changes in society. So much has been lost, civility, manner’s, chivalry (which was not always sexist, it’s good manners & respect), mutual respect for other’s.
On the flip-side, there are ladies like the one who complained that “chivalry is dead” when I didn’t hold the door for her because all two and a half of my arms were carrying ginormous suitcases.
Those snots weren’t ladies!
I am just back from the bank, where a man who preceded me held the door open, and on the way out I held it open for an elderly women. This is in the Bronx, NYC.
The practice is not just surviving, it is almost universal, in my experience.
In 1981 at a small liberal arts college in South Carolina, I found myself walking down a hallway about 20 feet behind two upstanding examples of Southern Womanhood, who were engaged in a deep conversation. I knew them both. They arrived at the exit door. Both stood there for a moment side by side, then they looked at each other, then stood there a few seconds more.
Finally the Computer Science Major opened the door for the “MRS” degree candidate.
Neither one turned to see why I had started laughing.
I generally help older women *and* men open doors, carry packages, etc. (Older = over 50.)
I don’t do so for younger women (less than 30) because I’ve gotten too much negative feedback for doing so. If they get offended by a gesture of help, then I’m happy to not offend them in the future.
I say “thank you” to ANYONE who helps me, regardless of race, religion, or gender. To me, that’s just good manners, and my mother would lean out of heaven to slap me if I didn’t practice it.
I said basically the same thing several months ago (in the winter), when I had gotten on the bus I ride to work in the morning, and one of the women riders slipped on some ice and fell. The bus driver went out to help her, and one of the other women near me commented on what a nice man he was to go out and help her. I thought that it’s a truly sad state of affairs when something like that merits a surprised comment. The normal state should be that such would be expected (I was in the back of the bus already, or I would have been out there, too), and the only surprise should be if no one helped.
I will sorely regret the day when I find myself unable or, worse yet, unwilling to assist women or men with simple tasks that may be a struggle for them. I neither need nor expect anyone’s gratitude and am often surprised by the effusive thank you I receive for an act that cost me neither money nor pain and no more than insignificant effort and a second or three.
To Southern Man – thank you! That is precisely why, when we reach a door immediately in front of someone else (presuming it is not a stream of people), we open the door and stand aside for that person to enter. It is a courtesy a gentleman gives as a simple gesture of civilization.
I will patiently await the opportunity to apply your perfect retort should I ever receive a negative response. I may be unable to do so without laughing. I cannot recall any negative responses yet, but as I age I find young women seem more suspicious of simple courtesy so perhaps it will happen soon enough.
I’m a man, and I *always* hold the door for another man who has their hands full. However, I do the same thing much less frequently for women, perhaps only about half the time.
I used to do it for everyone, equally, but I live in a New England college town, and the second time that I was berated by a woman for opening/holding a door while she was struggling with bags or boxes, I decided that it simply wasn’t worth the abuse.
It seems to me that the issue of holding doors open is pretty different than the chivalrous act of offering to carry things for someone. As to the former, I hold them open for men and women, when it’s natural (as opposed to making a production of it by holding it open and waiting a long time). I’ve never had a woman say anything negative.
But I don’t think I would offer to carry something for a woman, unless she was pretty old or infirm. That sort of chivalry was a quid pro quo in the old social contract. But that’s out the window. They broke it, so they own it.
I open doors and general courtesies because it’d just feel dumb to not do it, it just seems the right/courteous thing to do, and it doesn’t really matter whether it’s a chick or a grey old dude, or an eight foot Somalian olympic medalist. But I have to admit that whenever I hold a door open for a girl it’s always with some sort of semi-ironic nod towards the anachronism of gallantry and courtesy, in other words you feel like you have to make a joke of it, or else feel really really awkward. Or thus it feels.
Actually just the other day I had a chick go ‘you’re welcome!’ when I said my customary ‘cheers!’ when she brought our burgerfuel meal over. It was surprising and lovely, and more surprising for the fact that it was surprising. Small things that you don’t even realise you appreciate. And here I thought I was a hardened emotional rock of a Christian.
Take a resource for granted, proceed to squander it, then lament the ‘sudden’ scarcity. Not exactly a new pattern.
Best news i’ve read all morning! When one party engages in total war against another the attacked side will be forced to respond eventually.
“Take what you can, give nothing back”
First wave feminists created the slogan, “votes for boats”; meaning that they wanted equal rights in lieu of preferential treatment. I wonder how many men that lady has helped? If you expect something solely because you are female (or male), you are sexist. The idea that women can have chivalry when it’s convenient and equality when it’s convenient is absurd. It also confuses society. The fact that articles like this exist is proof that we are lost and confused. Like a dog who had his water dish moved.
I was taught as a child that you hold the door for people AND say thank you if the door is held for you. Women of my age almost always ignore me, if not actively disrespect me. Holding the door for people is just one of those little bad habits I have to remind myself that girls select against.
I’m through acting like a gentleman. Now I’ll act like a woman.
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